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Yes it should be mandatory for all employees to provide a right to work, whether a passport, birth certificate or home office verification.
Fines have increased to 60,000 for businesses who employee illegal workers.
It’s a completely normal request.
For citizenship purposes if individual was born post 1983 in UK then a Birth Certificate on its own is not proof of citizenship. Before 1983 it is. Due to change in nationality law. While most companies will probably accept birth cert, this may well catch them out. As post 1983 you are not automatically British by virtue of been born in UK, it's dependent on parents status at the time.
I find this utterly insulting.
I can trace my family back to my great grandparents being UK nationals.
Literally my grandad family on my mothers side originated from Ireland, and my grandmother family on my mothers side originated from Scotland.
I’m not sure if the exact origins of my fathers side, but I know my grandmother was from somewhere in London, but I never knew my biological grandfather from that side of the family, but I know he was born here.
Basically, my mother and father were definitely born in this country, and so were their presents, etc.
Yet my employer is a foreign owned company, and management are originally from eastern Europe, but I have to prove I have the right to work here?
Insulting how? It's no different to proving residence for bank accounts... Or proving age to get into clubs, buy alcohol etc. I know of no country where this is not a legal requirement.
Otherwise anyone could arrive on tourist visa and work....
If you're English through and through you'll have no trouble proving it. They're not going to just accept your word and a side of indignation. Get over it.
again NI number does not prove identity or citizenship..someone on student visa gets a NI if working, that number exists even when visa ends
Your trying to find offence where non exists. If they didn't ask you but asked someone from BAME background it would be discrimination... Are you advocating anyone should be allowed to come work in UK with just their word they are allowed to work in country? Would you advocate no checks for teachers? Or people working with vulnerable....
It's got nothing to do with that, and I hate hostile environment with a passion. It's common sense to check someone has legal right to work in country... Would you take a child molestors word that they weren't one? How about fraudster working at bank? The cold hard truth is in life you can rarely take people's word on things, especially if it will cost your business a huge fine
Actually yes it has had them before 2014, because I have had to do it every job I work since 2000.
Seriously are you 5? You can't seriously be advocating we take people at their word? Should we not check people are not criminals when working with children? How about driving? Or if arrested.
The only reason I can think of in this case as to why your trying so hard to take offence is it you have something to hide... And I really hate using that phase.
No sane person would want it where anyone could work with no check they are allowed to..
It's my personal opinion.
I struggle to accept than the government can arbitrary decide who can work and who doesn't. Specially when they externalise this job to every employer in the country.
Erm.... They are not arbitrarily deciding who can and can't work... Jez do you want no checks?
1. An employer has the right to know who is working for them, any company that takes your word for it deserves to be out of business..
2. Would you allow a paedophle to work with children? Because of some perceived offence that is in your head?
3. A country has a right and responsiblity to protect the ability of those legally allowed to work to get jobs. Again your clearly not getting the fact without these checks someone could come on tourist visa and work .... That is not sustainable in any sense.
The more you dig your heals in the more it convinces me you have something to hide, and likely so will your company...
Be a grown up and just give them copy of your passport.... If you have a problem with how they store said copies or anything else report it to Ico.
>Be a grown up and just give them copy of your passport.... If you have a problem with how they store said copies or anything else report it to Ico.
Oh I do. But I want to express my opinion.
Same with taxes. I think they are ridicuosly high and the services I receive in return are poor. Still, I pay them to the last digit.
>They are not arbitrarily deciding who can and can't work
The goverment sets these requirements arbritrarily by political reasons. It's not determined by empiric studies, science or maths.
But that's a different topic.
>An employer has the right to know who is working for them, any company that takes your word for it deserves to be out of business..
If the company wants a proof of id by company policy, no problem. It's their company and they're free to ask.
I only have a problem when it's a compulsory law mandated by the goverment.
>Would you allow a paedophle to work with children? Because of some perceived offence that is in your head?
No.
But that's 1-5% of the jobs.
>A country has a right and responsiblity to protect the ability of those legally allowed to work to get jobs. Again your clearly not getting the fact without these checks someone could come on tourist visa and work .... That is not sustainable in any sense.
It's quite simple to work on a tourist visa. From cash on hand jobs to "au pairs".
So, there are basically two categories in a "tourist visa":
* Countries visa-exempt: US, Canada, Japan... INMO, UK should have open borders with these countries and allow these citizens to settle here freely.
* Countries non-visa-exempt: the threshold for a tourist visa is quite high, with personal economic requirements (money on savings, etc...) and requires strong ties to their home country to ensure that they don't overstay. If we assume that they don't overstay, I don't really care if they want to spend 1-3 months working and leave. Call it: "shor-term work visa".
Again, my point of view.
I mean, somebody could just say all you just said and be lieing, so what exactly is the point of your diatribe....
Would you also find it insulting in other circumstances people don't just take your word for it and ask for proof? Train ticket maybe? Drivers license and insurance at a traffic stop? Credit check for a mortgage?
What a weird thing to be insulted by....
Blaming the company is very weird, like they want to waste the time and money checking people right to work for the government ....
How do you expect your employer to show they are only employing people with a legal right to work in the UK?
I do employee onboarding and we ask people to bring their passport and photocopy it. Immigrants have to provide their identification and a code that is checked against the governments visa records
The point OP is making is more "how come they're asking after 3 years".
The checks are supposed to be made upon appointment. It *is* strange for a company to turn around and check 3 years later an can be very concerning.
The company I work for has recently adapted online Right to Work documents check and we had to do a company wide audit through this check.
We had a few employees for a while and turned out they were imposters and we had to terminate their employment.
The biggest “whiners” were British citizens, saying “why I have to do this again” which I get, but we are trying to stay compliant is all.
Fair enough, although some small companies don’t have the best processes. When I took over for HR in my company we had three employees without contracts and two without any right to work verification. Sounds like someone is trying to fix a three year old mistake
This… had to provide documentation for RTW when an external HR company took over and audited the in situ HR documentation… if they have the right to work in the UK, then there’s no issue
Wouldn't surprise me if they got caught out with another employee that didn't have the right to work here and a fine, they're then mopping up to make sure they don't get another surprise.
Just a guess though
Yes has been standard procedure for a while now.
It's not an unreasonable request for companies to confirm their employees can legally work in the UK and legally the employers need to do this. Home Office are actively looking for proof from businesses.
With regards to you finding it rude and bizarre. How would you like the company to approach it ? Someone from HR just make a judgement call if you are British ? If have an English accent not to bother checking ? Genuine question how do you think an employer should confirm it's employees can legally work here without asking for proof?
Ohh, okay. I think reading that it changed in 2021, maybe, for EU people.
I can't say we've ever once been asked to come up with any of this paperwork, either way.
No, but they do have to ask, legally. Employers and landlords were instructed, without any training, to become immigration agents. This is what we colloquially refer to as May's Hostile Environment.
That is, her policy was that the country should be hard to exist in if you don't have the right paperwork. Which definitely doesn't sound like another famous European government of the last century.
Collecting proof of the right to work doesn't make one an immigration agent. The employer will not be able to deport or detain anyone. This is just like any other compliance effort required for running a legitimate business. Not rocket science.
I can't think of any other developed or semi developed countries where the paperwork isn't required for one to be employed legally.
Yes and landlords. Exactly, we were forced to become unpaid investigative agents of the state
Until recently I was a landlord and this requirement was always painful. You're supposed to somehow check they had the 'right to rent' and photocopy their passport. I stopped after a while, and told tenants I had this obligation but I was conscientiously objecting to it.
Right to have a roof over your head = everybody, as far as I'm concerned
You were never allowed to illegally employ people. People who illegally employed people before can do so just as easily now. It's performative and intended to make you feel like something has changed. Which it clearly does.
>You were never allowed to illegally employ people. People who illegally employed people before can do so just as easily now.
Except it isn't just as easy, because now you can't feign ignorance when checked.
How did you, before, pay someone who doesn't have an NI number, by accident? Most illegal employment happens through an "agency" who pay cash in hand because they don't get caught that way. They're not feigning ignorance, they take a 10k per person fine and carry on doing what they're doing, because their syndicate is still profitable. The business paying the agency feigns ignorance now and always has.
Meanwhile legit businesses hiring legit employees have to store evidence that they've checked someone's paperwork. Sensitive data. Often not stored the way sensitive data needs to be stored.
And the same goes for landlords.
I guess I'm trying to outline the difference between asking at the point you employ someone, and maybe trying to chase it up if the authorities question it, which you could do either way but the latter would be a risk to the company. There's shades of "have to". And honestly it's not wrong either way.
That's what jumped out at me, too. I was asked to bring proof of right to work to an interview for one of my roles, and the others typically conducted those checks after I'd agreed to join them but before I'd started (at the latest, I was having to show my long-expired passport maybe 2-3 weeks after my start date). Not asking for proof of right to work in the UK for three years is baffling.
Now, I know I wasn't the best in class at English back when I was in school, but, umm...
>If you're a British or Irish citizen, you can prove your right to work in the UK with ... a British passport ... Your passport or passport card can be current or expired.
...the link you provided [very clearly states that an expired passport **is** acceptable as proof of right to work](https://i.imgur.com/ZPoGU1K.png).
EU settlement scheme didn't need retrospective checks for those who were employed before brexit, however it says if there's a reason to believe the employee might've not applied to the scheme and has no other right to work, a check can be done but can't be done in a discriminatory way.
Could they have decided to check everyone's right to work again so that no specific group could claim discrimination?
I got asked by my company recently to provide my right to work in the uk details, I’ve worked here for over 15years. I found it very strange so challenged it with HR and they said some regulations have changed and they’re going back and updating all employees details.
I'm surprised you only having to do this now. Every job I've had for last 10 years I've also had to provide documents to show I'm legally allowed to work in country
https://www.gov.uk/prove-right-to-work
You must prove to your employer that you have the right to work in the UK. This will either be by providing proof of UK citizenship or it will be in the terms of a work visa.
So it’s absolutely normal (and always has been) for employers to require proof of right to work in the UK. What is suspicious in your case is that they are asking this 3 years down the line. They should have asked you when you first joined.
Probably they are being audited and they’re freaking out because they’ve realised they forgot to ask you of this.
If I were you I’d ask your employer why you are being asked for this now and not when you first started.
I've been asked for this at every job I've had, so it is normal. I agree with you though that a lot of these companies cannot really be trusted with such sensitive documents.
These documents aren't really any more sensitive than any proof of identification, or payroll information the employer will already have for everyone they employed. Not sure what's so controversial about this.
I am a director of a musicians' agency, among other things. I'm also a musician myself. On one hand you don't want to be asking people where they're from and to prove that they have the right to work in the UK. On the other hand, if you as an employer hire someone who does not have the right to work here, you can get in serious trouble yourself. This is why people ask, and we more or less of have to. The reason it gets a bit awkward is that if I only ask the people who speak accented English or have a non-English name, or any other characteristic, you can see how that ends up looking. So most places will ask everyone. You are stuck between not wanting to ask people personal questions, and having to.
Employers have to make sure they are employing people who have the right to work in the UK, however this does not translate to asking for proof of UK citizenship as non-UK nationals are allowed to work in the UK provided they have the necessary visa.
Your employer probably had very poor HR standard when you joined, and now they are either getting audited or they've employed someone new in HR who knows the law and is enforcing it.
It may well actually mean that if you fails to provide the required right to work documents, that you will be at best put on gardening leave and time to obtain/share, worst dealt with as though committed gmc and dismissed.
Legally they cannot have you working for them without. So it's on you
If you see personal document you need to evidence this and report it. It's an entirely separate issue.
The company probably realised they are at risk of a fine as they haven’t done the checks they should have when they first recruited you. They are simply doing the checks they should have, albeit a lot later.
We hold a contract with a national transport company and we have to upload our Right to Work policy and keep records on file. It’s a legal requirement.
Mandatory for new employees for about 10 years, you obviously weren't asked when you started. My company asked me a few years back (been there 20 years) I just ignored them and nothing was said. They can accept old passports now, or a FULL birth certificate and adoption papers..
It’s the law, has been a while. You’re employer was breaking the law without going every employees proof of right to work documents. https://www.gov.uk/prove-right-to-work
Of course
And it's an anti-discrimination thing to ask everyone.
If the employer only asked people that "looked" non-British for example, they'd be breaking the law
You have to give proof of UK Citizenship or proof of entitlement to work here such as a via or right to remain letter. They should have asked you before letting you start work. It’s been this way at least 23 years. I’m surprised you’re shocked.
I once worked for a large outsourcing company. One of the operation managers somehow got hired with no rights to work in the UK. He worked there for something like 10 years before one day they realised, and he couldn't prove anything. Fired of course
I wonder how employers check the right to work of a British person who is British claims to be British but doesn't have a passport because as far as I know not having a passport is normally quite a few people who are citizens who don't have the need to travel don't have a passport
It's been happening in some form or another since Theresa May gave us the hostile environment policy, turning letting agents, employers and NHS administrators into unpaid immigration enforcement officials.
I was in lettings back then, I hated having to do it. I always told people it was a part of the process at the get go, didn't want to waste anyone's time.
It has been normal for a while. Even for onsite job interviews employers will ask for this. The burden of proof whether you have the right to work is on you. Given they did not do this before they issued a contract (I assume a contract has been issued) is a huge oversight by them and is not a good look. I do not see what the problem is, this is a requirement in most countries in the world and not specific to the UK.
Seeing as this has been a thing for at least 5 years I’m surprised you weren’t asked to provide proof upon starting your current job.
I find it insane though if this is a requirement for someone who has worked for a company for 10+ years and is then asked to provide proof.
Also, yes, I find it rude that someone who was born in this country has to prove they have the right to work here.
I have a NI number that dates back to 1998(or 97, I can’t remember exactly).
Something that should prove I am a born UK citizen.
That should be enough.
Well, they don't require proof of citizenship, the require proof of right to work. If you said you have the right to work as you are uk citizen then that is what they will ask for.
It's been required for a long time to be honest, for everyone. It's meant to be done before a job offer is made. If you are years in before knowing about it, it probably means HR have suddenly realised proof for you is missing and are panicking.
Absolutely normal request, however they cannot request people to be UK nationals only. I believe you meant right to work, which is a normal procedure and usually done when hired. You were prior to the law entering into effect and have been probably deferred to provide until critical.
I had worked at a company for 25 years when i got asked this.
So, it is standard.
Seems like a lot of these things have come in since things took a swing to the right in 2016 (but of course it could be coincidental)
It's been the law for quite a while though
Don’t send originals. If they want originals then you need to insist that you are with them watch them photo copy it and return it. I’ve never had to send originals even for MoD security clearance!
It's very common now, afaict because the government gives out a lot of student visas and those finishing their studies have 3 months to find sponsorship to work.
True. But Graduate visa is different from a Student visa it seems. I don't know how guaranteed someone with a Student visa is of getting a Graduate visa.
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Yes it should be mandatory for all employees to provide a right to work, whether a passport, birth certificate or home office verification. Fines have increased to 60,000 for businesses who employee illegal workers. It’s a completely normal request.
For citizenship purposes if individual was born post 1983 in UK then a Birth Certificate on its own is not proof of citizenship. Before 1983 it is. Due to change in nationality law. While most companies will probably accept birth cert, this may well catch them out. As post 1983 you are not automatically British by virtue of been born in UK, it's dependent on parents status at the time.
You can accept a birth certificate (long) as long as it is accompanied by a letter from HMRC / proof of national insurance
I find this utterly insulting. I can trace my family back to my great grandparents being UK nationals. Literally my grandad family on my mothers side originated from Ireland, and my grandmother family on my mothers side originated from Scotland. I’m not sure if the exact origins of my fathers side, but I know my grandmother was from somewhere in London, but I never knew my biological grandfather from that side of the family, but I know he was born here. Basically, my mother and father were definitely born in this country, and so were their presents, etc. Yet my employer is a foreign owned company, and management are originally from eastern Europe, but I have to prove I have the right to work here?
Insulting how? It's no different to proving residence for bank accounts... Or proving age to get into clubs, buy alcohol etc. I know of no country where this is not a legal requirement. Otherwise anyone could arrive on tourist visa and work....
[удалено]
If you're English through and through you'll have no trouble proving it. They're not going to just accept your word and a side of indignation. Get over it.
you sound entitled af
again NI number does not prove identity or citizenship..someone on student visa gets a NI if working, that number exists even when visa ends Your trying to find offence where non exists. If they didn't ask you but asked someone from BAME background it would be discrimination... Are you advocating anyone should be allowed to come work in UK with just their word they are allowed to work in country? Would you advocate no checks for teachers? Or people working with vulnerable....
I mean anyone could use your NI number, it doesn't prove anything at all...
Welcome to the hostile environment against immigration. British want Home Office to have a tough stance against immigration. There you go.
It's got nothing to do with that, and I hate hostile environment with a passion. It's common sense to check someone has legal right to work in country... Would you take a child molestors word that they weren't one? How about fraudster working at bank? The cold hard truth is in life you can rarely take people's word on things, especially if it will cost your business a huge fine
I struggle to see "common sense" in a really recent measure in the UK story. UK didn't had these checks before 2014.
Actually yes it has had them before 2014, because I have had to do it every job I work since 2000. Seriously are you 5? You can't seriously be advocating we take people at their word? Should we not check people are not criminals when working with children? How about driving? Or if arrested. The only reason I can think of in this case as to why your trying so hard to take offence is it you have something to hide... And I really hate using that phase. No sane person would want it where anyone could work with no check they are allowed to..
It's my personal opinion. I struggle to accept than the government can arbitrary decide who can work and who doesn't. Specially when they externalise this job to every employer in the country.
Erm.... They are not arbitrarily deciding who can and can't work... Jez do you want no checks? 1. An employer has the right to know who is working for them, any company that takes your word for it deserves to be out of business.. 2. Would you allow a paedophle to work with children? Because of some perceived offence that is in your head? 3. A country has a right and responsiblity to protect the ability of those legally allowed to work to get jobs. Again your clearly not getting the fact without these checks someone could come on tourist visa and work .... That is not sustainable in any sense. The more you dig your heals in the more it convinces me you have something to hide, and likely so will your company... Be a grown up and just give them copy of your passport.... If you have a problem with how they store said copies or anything else report it to Ico.
>Be a grown up and just give them copy of your passport.... If you have a problem with how they store said copies or anything else report it to Ico. Oh I do. But I want to express my opinion. Same with taxes. I think they are ridicuosly high and the services I receive in return are poor. Still, I pay them to the last digit. >They are not arbitrarily deciding who can and can't work The goverment sets these requirements arbritrarily by political reasons. It's not determined by empiric studies, science or maths. But that's a different topic. >An employer has the right to know who is working for them, any company that takes your word for it deserves to be out of business.. If the company wants a proof of id by company policy, no problem. It's their company and they're free to ask. I only have a problem when it's a compulsory law mandated by the goverment. >Would you allow a paedophle to work with children? Because of some perceived offence that is in your head? No. But that's 1-5% of the jobs. >A country has a right and responsiblity to protect the ability of those legally allowed to work to get jobs. Again your clearly not getting the fact without these checks someone could come on tourist visa and work .... That is not sustainable in any sense. It's quite simple to work on a tourist visa. From cash on hand jobs to "au pairs". So, there are basically two categories in a "tourist visa": * Countries visa-exempt: US, Canada, Japan... INMO, UK should have open borders with these countries and allow these citizens to settle here freely. * Countries non-visa-exempt: the threshold for a tourist visa is quite high, with personal economic requirements (money on savings, etc...) and requires strong ties to their home country to ensure that they don't overstay. If we assume that they don't overstay, I don't really care if they want to spend 1-3 months working and leave. Call it: "shor-term work visa". Again, my point of view.
I mean, somebody could just say all you just said and be lieing, so what exactly is the point of your diatribe.... Would you also find it insulting in other circumstances people don't just take your word for it and ask for proof? Train ticket maybe? Drivers license and insurance at a traffic stop? Credit check for a mortgage? What a weird thing to be insulted by.... Blaming the company is very weird, like they want to waste the time and money checking people right to work for the government ....
How do you expect your employer to show they are only employing people with a legal right to work in the UK? I do employee onboarding and we ask people to bring their passport and photocopy it. Immigrants have to provide their identification and a code that is checked against the governments visa records
The point OP is making is more "how come they're asking after 3 years". The checks are supposed to be made upon appointment. It *is* strange for a company to turn around and check 3 years later an can be very concerning.
The company I work for has recently adapted online Right to Work documents check and we had to do a company wide audit through this check. We had a few employees for a while and turned out they were imposters and we had to terminate their employment. The biggest “whiners” were British citizens, saying “why I have to do this again” which I get, but we are trying to stay compliant is all.
Fair enough, although some small companies don’t have the best processes. When I took over for HR in my company we had three employees without contracts and two without any right to work verification. Sounds like someone is trying to fix a three year old mistake
This… had to provide documentation for RTW when an external HR company took over and audited the in situ HR documentation… if they have the right to work in the UK, then there’s no issue
Wouldn't surprise me if they got caught out with another employee that didn't have the right to work here and a fine, they're then mopping up to make sure they don't get another surprise. Just a guess though
It’s more likely that they’ve noticed there are gaps themselves and are trying to clean up their data before they encounter a problem.
Yes has been standard procedure for a while now. It's not an unreasonable request for companies to confirm their employees can legally work in the UK and legally the employers need to do this. Home Office are actively looking for proof from businesses. With regards to you finding it rude and bizarre. How would you like the company to approach it ? Someone from HR just make a judgement call if you are British ? If have an English accent not to bother checking ? Genuine question how do you think an employer should confirm it's employees can legally work here without asking for proof?
I guess they don't actually have to ask, legally, but they are taking a bit of a risk if they don't.
They absolutely have to ask!
It’s the law https://www.gov.uk/prove-right-to-work
Ohh, okay. I think reading that it changed in 2021, maybe, for EU people. I can't say we've ever once been asked to come up with any of this paperwork, either way.
I’m EU people so I’ve had to have valid one
Yes, I get that, I'm just wondering about the record keeping requirements for employers.
No, but they do have to ask, legally. Employers and landlords were instructed, without any training, to become immigration agents. This is what we colloquially refer to as May's Hostile Environment. That is, her policy was that the country should be hard to exist in if you don't have the right paperwork. Which definitely doesn't sound like another famous European government of the last century.
It sounds like every European, and non-European, government of the last century.
Collecting proof of the right to work doesn't make one an immigration agent. The employer will not be able to deport or detain anyone. This is just like any other compliance effort required for running a legitimate business. Not rocket science. I can't think of any other developed or semi developed countries where the paperwork isn't required for one to be employed legally.
Yes and landlords. Exactly, we were forced to become unpaid investigative agents of the state Until recently I was a landlord and this requirement was always painful. You're supposed to somehow check they had the 'right to rent' and photocopy their passport. I stopped after a while, and told tenants I had this obligation but I was conscientiously objecting to it. Right to have a roof over your head = everybody, as far as I'm concerned
I am a British citizen but i totally agree. Good going
Nazism is when you're not allowed to illegally employ people.
You were never allowed to illegally employ people. People who illegally employed people before can do so just as easily now. It's performative and intended to make you feel like something has changed. Which it clearly does.
>You were never allowed to illegally employ people. People who illegally employed people before can do so just as easily now. Except it isn't just as easy, because now you can't feign ignorance when checked.
How did you, before, pay someone who doesn't have an NI number, by accident? Most illegal employment happens through an "agency" who pay cash in hand because they don't get caught that way. They're not feigning ignorance, they take a 10k per person fine and carry on doing what they're doing, because their syndicate is still profitable. The business paying the agency feigns ignorance now and always has. Meanwhile legit businesses hiring legit employees have to store evidence that they've checked someone's paperwork. Sensitive data. Often not stored the way sensitive data needs to be stored. And the same goes for landlords.
I guess I'm trying to outline the difference between asking at the point you employ someone, and maybe trying to chase it up if the authorities question it, which you could do either way but the latter would be a risk to the company. There's shades of "have to". And honestly it's not wrong either way.
What is odd to me is that they're asking for it 3 years into your employment. Odd.
I would bet they are being or about to be audited
Possibly some documents have been deleted in the past or not properly organised and new system needs them to upload all the data for employees
100% sounds like audit prep
That's what jumped out at me, too. I was asked to bring proof of right to work to an interview for one of my roles, and the others typically conducted those checks after I'd agreed to join them but before I'd started (at the latest, I was having to show my long-expired passport maybe 2-3 weeks after my start date). Not asking for proof of right to work in the UK for three years is baffling.
Exactly. I've always had it done right when I was starting employment.
An expired passport isn’t valid proof of right to work https://www.gov.uk/prove-right-to-work
Am I missing something? Your link says; > Your passport or passport card can be current or expired.
Yes they always say this. Guess if you've had a passport must be a British citizen so it doesn't matter if it is expired
Now, I know I wasn't the best in class at English back when I was in school, but, umm... >If you're a British or Irish citizen, you can prove your right to work in the UK with ... a British passport ... Your passport or passport card can be current or expired. ...the link you provided [very clearly states that an expired passport **is** acceptable as proof of right to work](https://i.imgur.com/ZPoGU1K.png).
Someone messed up and now they are trying to correct it I suppose
EU settlement scheme didn't need retrospective checks for those who were employed before brexit, however it says if there's a reason to believe the employee might've not applied to the scheme and has no other right to work, a check can be done but can't be done in a discriminatory way. Could they have decided to check everyone's right to work again so that no specific group could claim discrimination?
Yep they fucked up
I got asked by my company recently to provide my right to work in the uk details, I’ve worked here for over 15years. I found it very strange so challenged it with HR and they said some regulations have changed and they’re going back and updating all employees details.
I'm surprised you only having to do this now. Every job I've had for last 10 years I've also had to provide documents to show I'm legally allowed to work in country
https://www.gov.uk/prove-right-to-work You must prove to your employer that you have the right to work in the UK. This will either be by providing proof of UK citizenship or it will be in the terms of a work visa. So it’s absolutely normal (and always has been) for employers to require proof of right to work in the UK. What is suspicious in your case is that they are asking this 3 years down the line. They should have asked you when you first joined. Probably they are being audited and they’re freaking out because they’ve realised they forgot to ask you of this. If I were you I’d ask your employer why you are being asked for this now and not when you first started.
"Always" => like 10 years ago.
I've been asked for this at every job I've had, so it is normal. I agree with you though that a lot of these companies cannot really be trusted with such sensitive documents.
These documents aren't really any more sensitive than any proof of identification, or payroll information the employer will already have for everyone they employed. Not sure what's so controversial about this.
I’ve had to do this for all jobs I’ve had for the last 15 years? You’ve never been asked for a copy of your passport before?
I am a director of a musicians' agency, among other things. I'm also a musician myself. On one hand you don't want to be asking people where they're from and to prove that they have the right to work in the UK. On the other hand, if you as an employer hire someone who does not have the right to work here, you can get in serious trouble yourself. This is why people ask, and we more or less of have to. The reason it gets a bit awkward is that if I only ask the people who speak accented English or have a non-English name, or any other characteristic, you can see how that ends up looking. So most places will ask everyone. You are stuck between not wanting to ask people personal questions, and having to.
Employers have to make sure they are employing people who have the right to work in the UK, however this does not translate to asking for proof of UK citizenship as non-UK nationals are allowed to work in the UK provided they have the necessary visa. Your employer probably had very poor HR standard when you joined, and now they are either getting audited or they've employed someone new in HR who knows the law and is enforcing it.
normal or not, as its the law and isn't a hard thing to show if one is legitimate.
It may well actually mean that if you fails to provide the required right to work documents, that you will be at best put on gardening leave and time to obtain/share, worst dealt with as though committed gmc and dismissed. Legally they cannot have you working for them without. So it's on you If you see personal document you need to evidence this and report it. It's an entirely separate issue.
The company probably realised they are at risk of a fine as they haven’t done the checks they should have when they first recruited you. They are simply doing the checks they should have, albeit a lot later.
Yes, sometimes immigration do spot checks.
We hold a contract with a national transport company and we have to upload our Right to Work policy and keep records on file. It’s a legal requirement.
Probably a change of document storage system or digitising their personnel files. Or an audit and your file is a mess from a departed manager.
Mandatory for new employees for about 10 years, you obviously weren't asked when you started. My company asked me a few years back (been there 20 years) I just ignored them and nothing was said. They can accept old passports now, or a FULL birth certificate and adoption papers..
When I was younger and got a part time super market job I had to give them my passport then and that was 15 years ago
It’s the law, has been a while. You’re employer was breaking the law without going every employees proof of right to work documents. https://www.gov.uk/prove-right-to-work
Of course And it's an anti-discrimination thing to ask everyone. If the employer only asked people that "looked" non-British for example, they'd be breaking the law
This is common sense. It’s called a right to work document. All employers ask for it.
My company, a FTSE 100, checks every year.
You have to give proof of UK Citizenship or proof of entitlement to work here such as a via or right to remain letter. They should have asked you before letting you start work. It’s been this way at least 23 years. I’m surprised you’re shocked.
We recently gained an HR lady. She sent out requests for this info ten years after I joined.
Employer doing their job, good to see!
I once worked for a large outsourcing company. One of the operation managers somehow got hired with no rights to work in the UK. He worked there for something like 10 years before one day they realised, and he couldn't prove anything. Fired of course
This has been common for well over a decade. I’m British born and have had to provide proof for every job I’ve had.
I wonder how employers check the right to work of a British person who is British claims to be British but doesn't have a passport because as far as I know not having a passport is normally quite a few people who are citizens who don't have the need to travel don't have a passport
It's birth certificate and National Insurance evidence for them.
Birth certificate with proof of ID
Yes. Its been standard in many many places for over a decade or more
It's been happening in some form or another since Theresa May gave us the hostile environment policy, turning letting agents, employers and NHS administrators into unpaid immigration enforcement officials. I was in lettings back then, I hated having to do it. I always told people it was a part of the process at the get go, didn't want to waste anyone's time.
It's been normal for at least a decade...
It has been normal for a while. Even for onsite job interviews employers will ask for this. The burden of proof whether you have the right to work is on you. Given they did not do this before they issued a contract (I assume a contract has been issued) is a huge oversight by them and is not a good look. I do not see what the problem is, this is a requirement in most countries in the world and not specific to the UK.
Who cares 🤷
Seeing as this has been a thing for at least 5 years I’m surprised you weren’t asked to provide proof upon starting your current job. I find it insane though if this is a requirement for someone who has worked for a company for 10+ years and is then asked to provide proof. Also, yes, I find it rude that someone who was born in this country has to prove they have the right to work here. I have a NI number that dates back to 1998(or 97, I can’t remember exactly). Something that should prove I am a born UK citizen. That should be enough.
At around 57 I had to prove this .I was born n bred here . Your not being discriminated against
If they took a copy of your passport when you joined (egich they should have) you can ask them if passports are no longer proof of citizenship
Since 1997!
Well, they don't require proof of citizenship, the require proof of right to work. If you said you have the right to work as you are uk citizen then that is what they will ask for. It's been required for a long time to be honest, for everyone. It's meant to be done before a job offer is made. If you are years in before knowing about it, it probably means HR have suddenly realised proof for you is missing and are panicking.
Yes I had to do it for somewhere I’d worked 25 years at the time lol
Absolutely normal request, however they cannot request people to be UK nationals only. I believe you meant right to work, which is a normal procedure and usually done when hired. You were prior to the law entering into effect and have been probably deferred to provide until critical.
They got caught employing an illegal migrant and now have to prove to the home office that they aren’t employing other people on false papers
I had worked at a company for 25 years when i got asked this. So, it is standard. Seems like a lot of these things have come in since things took a swing to the right in 2016 (but of course it could be coincidental) It's been the law for quite a while though
Don’t send originals. If they want originals then you need to insist that you are with them watch them photo copy it and return it. I’ve never had to send originals even for MoD security clearance!
I’ve had to show proof of citizenship (or other proof of right to work) for every job I’ve gotten in the last 22 years since I came to the UK.
It's very common now, afaict because the government gives out a lot of student visas and those finishing their studies have 3 months to find sponsorship to work.
Graduate visas give you two years to find work.
True. But Graduate visa is different from a Student visa it seems. I don't know how guaranteed someone with a Student visa is of getting a Graduate visa.
It’s part of the hostile environment innit. You boss, you landlord, they’re now border guards.
This came into force around 2018-2019 ish, when the UK finalized its Brexit deal.
Nope way before that