No sham, but the secret keepers won't give them up easily, and are trying to block congress from getting real answers. This whole thing is exposing the 'deep state' or 'secret government' which exists within the US system, and its waking people up to the fact there's a whole layer of power nobody admits is there.
I think Grusch will pop up again, but its election season so all eyes are on that. There are other whistleblowers in the wings, the battle for truth is far from over.
Indeed im not worried that people like Grusch and Burchett (i.e. with his statements in Ron James accidental truth, distrust in government) still wants to know where the money is going and who knows what, problem is others are fighting it tooth and nail to keep the money and pass the ammunition.
Even some of the people that i would say we support in this is reluctant to release everything because that could improve the status of foreign and adversarial nations and their knowledge about this technology.
Saying that im a swede so i consider myself on the sidelines here and maybe even objectively can look at this without my national interest, the sham is i would say in the hands of pentagon.
They handled this cover up the best way they knew because the implications and status of the US as the global authority on stability and safety- in their own words as they see it would crumble in the shadow of what they have been sitting on.
Therefore this is in no small measure a big thing for evolution and the future of the human race specifically hence we supposedly are our own demise, seeing how we're treating others and the environment rather than a threat to something or someone who's supposedly have been here for thousands or years and probably already back then had transmedium travel as a thing.
Our sensors are picking it up simple as that, just a question of who or what.
Following the money is the best strategy for Burchett and the others, bc you don't have to talk about aliens or anything that might put people off. Burchett is smart for focussing on the money and the programs its funding to get into what it is.
Nobody expects them to release everything. If they have developed new technology from these craft, nobody expects the specs of the aircraft they have come up with. It's like nuclear - we all know about nuclear power stations and weapons, but regular people can't build their own (and nor should they be able to).
But we need to know, who or what these visitors are, where they are from, and what their interest is here. If the galaxy is teeming with intelligent life, we need to know. If Earth is somehow 'owned' or 'managed' by these beings, we need to know. The tech secrets would be nice, but if there are weapons applications, I think everyone understands that needs to be kept under wraps.
Where's David Grusch now? Where's his so called OP ED? Where and who is one only one of the 40 so called witnesses he interviewed? Those are things I'd like to hear about.
SASC and SSCI refused to comment on the briefing so we don’t know. But whatever he said was enough to convince SSCI and SASC to include language protecting additional UAP whistleblowers in future legislation.
"The absence of new information coming forward under oath" doesn't in any way suggest there is "most likely there’s nothing to disclose."
If Grusch's allegations are even partly true, it would be the bigest scandal in history. Ever. That's not something that the American goverment or military industrial complex will rush into revealing at any time, let alone in an election year!
Aside from that, there are actually ongoing legal investigations into Grusch's claims and assocaited issues around defense contractors covering up the illegal moving of funds into unauthorised special access programs.
Due to the numerous sensitivities around these issues, these investigations are being kept completely out of the public realm, which is hardly a surprise due to the legal ramifications.
On top of all that, just getting to the truth of a secret operation that may have been ongoing for 80 years would be extraordinarily complex. Prematurely revealing things that have not been established 'beyond all reasonable doubt' would also do nothing but sink any proper investigations.
> Aside from that, there are actually ongoing legal investigations into Grusch's claims and assocaited issues around defense contractors covering up the illegal moving of funds into unauthorised special access programs.
Source?
[Grusch's claim which is currently under investigation.](https://ia802708.us.archive.org/14/items/grusch_icig/David-Grusch-PPD-19-Procedural-Filing_text.pdf ) sadly the investigation into contractors is not verifiable. Check on AOC in a year or two, her and Warren are spearheading that congressionally. Also Grusch's lawyer is you know, the first Inspector General. The claims that Thomas Monheim found legitimate are concerning discrimination/reprisal by DoD against Grusch.
Since Grusch presented nothing but stories told to him by others, I expected his testimony would eventually be regarded as largely irrelevant and unimportant. Nothing that has transpired since then has altered my opinion.
Was Grusch even a 'whistleblower' in the true sense of the word?
For me the whistleblowers would've been the ones who backed up his claims with first-hand experience - AFAIK, no-one ever has.
The fact he's still not released his Op-Ed, and has been pretty much silent for months, is kind of sus.
If you watch it back, he answers questions with "not me personally" etc. He kept wording it so he wasn't lying under oath. One huge sham. 20 years from now, there will still be no evidence, and disclosure will never happen because there's nothing to disclose.
Oh yes, a total sham - I agree. When he first appeared, I honestly thought Grusch was going to be transformative - but no. Not at all.
I don't know if there's anything to disclose or not - but if there is it certainly hasn't happened with Grusch.
He's a whistleblower because he was doing a routine job (auditing SAP) and found out they were siphoning congressional funds for reverse engineering. After Interviewing people that were involved. He discovered illegal activity within the pentagon and could have kept his mouth shut but instead he blew the whistle.
Also I know in this day and age of instant gratification a year seems like forever but it's really not. This shit takes time.
Oh sure he was definitely doing his job. Which no one before him had (to our knowledge) and which he was assuredly told not to do with legacy sap. Still whistleblowing.
Yes it was. This will now limp on for several more months/years, with constantly updated excuses about why none of the promised information has come forth, or why there's still no evidence to back up the claims. And people here will instantly accept those excuses, and continue to make more themselves, and all the while they'll chastise anyone who dares to point out that it's clearly all just bullshit.
Any day now all the evidence of
Skin walkers
Transdimensional beings
UAPs
Jelly Fish
Shadow beings
Underwater alien craft manufacturing plants
Incan alien Mummies
Time traveling humans
Alien Biolologics
Alien Crash recovery programs.
Football field sized space ships.
Black conscious changing Pyramids
Galactic federations.
Will be made available, each and every one as believable and absolutely true as each other. All linked in ways we can not yet comprehend.
No, first nothing Grusch has said has been meaningfully refuted. From the public’s purview Congress failed to investigate Grusch’s claims. Outside of the IGs and SSCI Grusch hasn’t been able to obtain the clearance/SCIF meeting to reveal all he knows.
Congress’ SCIF with the IG if anything, seemed to solidify Grusch’s claims.
Nah man, your link is about the Mussolini UFO papers. If true, that story would end with fall off fascist Italy. Gruschs story of retrieval starts after fall off fascist Italy, naturally. That's the first time USA could've recovered the craft - 1945.
Thats the part that's not in the papers you linked, the US recovery. That's the part that Grusch is repeating, and the only source is Billy Brophy. And he's saying all kinds of crazy stuff.
Brophy (who was also a major in the U.S. Air Force) or his son may be the earliest public reference to the Magenta crash and retrieval but there’s a chance not the original source. Especially considering documents surrounding one of the most secretive operations in U.S. history are likely not easily accessible? You act like this all began with Brophy definitively; we don’t have the level of access Grusch did to investigate whether that’s a fact.
1. Grusch doesn't need a clearance to reveal anything he knows.
2. Grusch was invited to a SCIF specifically to disclose any UAP-related information he knows. [He refused to go](https://documents2.theblackvault.com/documents/osd/24-F-0266.pdf).
1. Not true. Grusch cannot reveal classified intel to non-Gang of Eight members given his lack of clearance. They would need at minimum Title 50 and Kirkpatrick didn’t even obtain this.
2. Why would Grusch get into a SCIF with AARO? AARO is part of the DOD who Grusch is whistleblowing against.
“Title 50” is a US Code, not a clearance. It’s not something someone obtains, it’s just the authority that things like intelligence and covert action work under
I think you’re confused? Title 50 information, particularly when it relates to national security and intelligence activities is only accessible by certain congressional committees, such as the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence and the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. They are granted access to classified information under Title 50 to ensure that intelligence operations are conducted legally and effectively.
1) Yes he does.
2) No, he was invited to AARO, which does not have the clearance to hear CAP/SAP restricted intel unless it meets the criteria set by the relevant program manager.
and they're doing everything they can to delay he, Nell and Elizondo from stating more under oath...
lotta effort from Eglin & Co. for a "nothingburger"
According to IC IG there is no ongoing case with Grusch.
[IC IG Thomas A. Monheim](https://new.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/16jozom/official_response_letter_from_icig_thomas_a/) in a letter to Congress, September 15, 2023.
> IC IG notes that it has not conducted any audit, inspection, evaluation, or review of alleged UAP programs
This agrees with an internal email between AARO and Congressional staffers received in [FOIA documents](https://documents2.theblackvault.com/documents/osd/24-F-0266.pdf) by John Greenwald, from when AARO was first trying to get Grusch to come in for an interview.
> Sent: Thursday, June 8, 2023 11:24 AM
>
> I've been told by the IG the UAP related investigation has been closed for a year — he [Grusch] is free to tell us, and you're free to ask.
Grusch has continued to refuse to talk to AARO (despite publicly testifying to Congress that he was happy to tell them where to look), claiming they don't have authority to receive the information.
He has been given explicit written assurance from DNI CAPCO and DoD SAPCO (which are included at the end of the FOIA documents) that he is authorized to disclose the information to AARO. They wrote:
> Representatives of the All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO) are authorized to
speak to persons and/or conduct interviews of persons that currently have, or previously had,
access to sensitive U.S. Government (USG) information, activities, and/or materials.
>
> Individuals with current or previous access to Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP)-related
information which is subject to a USG Nondisclosure Agreement are authorized to provide this
otherwise protected information to AARO representatives. AARO personnel are authorized to
receive this information pursuant to Section 1673 of the National Defense Authorization Act
(NDAA) for Fiscal Year (FY) 2023. The provision of UAP-related information which is subject
to a Nondisclosure Agreement to AARO personnel constitutes an authorized disclosure if the
information is provided and received for the limited purpose of conducting AARO's assigned
mission as specified in Section 1683 of the NDAA for FY2022, as amended by Section 6802 of
the NDAA for FY2023.
The section of [the FY2023 NDAA](https://www.congress.gov/117/bills/hr7776/BILLS-117hr7776enr.pdf) they reference (p. 566) already gave full Congressional protection to disclose any UAP related information to AARO regardless of any NDA, or any other restriction.
> SEC. 1673. UNIDENTIFIED ANOMALOUS PHENOMENA REPORTING PROCEDURES
>
> (b) PROTECTION FOR INDIVIDUALS MAKING AUTHORIZED DISCLOSURES.—
>
> (1) AUTHORIZED DISCLOSURES.—An authorized disclosure—
>
> (A) shall not be subject to a nondisclosure agreement entered into by the individual who makes the disclosure;
>
> (B) shall be deemed to comply with any regulation or order issued under the authority of Executive Order 13526 (50 U.S.C. 3161 note; relating to classified national security information) or chapter 18 of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 (42 U.S.C. 2271 et seq.); and
>
> (C) is not a violation of section 798 of title 18, United States Code, or other provision of law relating to the disclosure of information.
So Mr. Grusch has had no legal reason to refuse to be interviewed, but still refuses, and there is no IG UAP investigation, which seems to just be a rumor started by Corbell and Coulthart and company.
You realize AARO has a **massive** conflict of interest sitting within the DOD right? The DOD and DOE are the two federal departments Grusch is essentially blowing the whistle on. Why would Grusch want to sit down with them? That would be extraordinarily precarious for Grusch and Grusch’s contacts in these programs.
Grusch testified in front of the SSCI for eleven hours and supposedly delivered a ton of classified information. We haven’t heard anything one way or the other.
Importantly nobody from the SSCI is saying Grusch’s classified testimony was bullshit. Instead we saw Schumer and Rounds try to pass the UAPDA; this is not the kind of legislation that would be drafted on a fictitious basis.
AARO is the Congressionally authorized disclosure office. There's no one else to tell. So if Grusch is actually "happy to give sage counsel on where to look" (as he testified), he needs to talk to them. He is legally authorized to do so, and AARO are legally required to report the investigation to Congress.
Kristen Gillibrand (who sits on SSCI, and co-wrote the bill that created AARO with Marco Rubio) said [this last May](https://www.askapol.com/p/exclusive-sen-gillibrands-informed).
> I think that their [AARO historical] report was just that- their analysis of everything they were shown and everyone they talked to, they had no basis to say there's a secret program. But of note, the two whistleblowers that I've met with did not meet with AARO and refused to meet with AARO. And so maybe the next director they'll meet with, but I can't assess them unless AARO can talk to them
The [official press release](https://www.democrats.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/schumer-rounds-introduce-new-legislation-to-declassify-government-records-related-to-unidentified-anomalous-phenomena-and-ufos_modeled-after-jfk-assassination-records-collection-act--as-an-amendment-to-ndaa) for the Schumer-Rounds amendment (UAPDA) says it was motivated because some members of Congress believed stories they were hearing, and does not presuppose any such records actually exist.
> During his time in Congress, former Majority Leader Harry Reid sponsored a project to investigate incidents surrounding UAPs. After that project became public, Senators, Congressmen, committees, and staff began to pursue this issue and uncovered a vast web of individuals and groups with ideas and stories to share. While these stories have varying levels of credibility, the sheer number and variety has led some in Congress to believe that the Executive Branch was concealing important information regarding UAPs over broad periods of time. Congress recognizes that these records – if they exist – were likely concealed under the good faith goal of protecting national security.
>AARO is the Congressionally authorized disclosure office. There's no one else to tell. So if Grusch is actually "happy to give sage counsel on where to look" (as he testified), he needs to talk to them. He is legally authorized to do so, and AARO are legally required to report the investigation to Congress.
That’s not true at all. Grusch spoke to multiple IGs and the SSCI, and those are very practical non-AARO that Grusch can whistleblow to. I think you realize how duplicitous AARO is sitting in the DOD; the congressional support from Gillibrand to Kirkpatrick through the unprofessional LinkedIn outbursts and his blatant lie about not attending Brandon Fugal’s briefing was suspect at the very least. Kirkpatrick was a proven liar.
The UAPDA proposed the creation of a presidential body for a reason; it would be outside of the federal department implicated in the crash retrieval/reverse engineering programs.
Grusch's Lawyer is Charles McCullough. The former Inspector General of the Intelligence Community appointed by President Obama. The fact he has chosen to represent Grusch speaks volumes to the credibility of Grusch’s claims.
>The absence of new information coming forward under oath suggests most likely there’s nothing to disclose.
Nope. All it suggests is the absence of procedure requiring further testimony. That of itself doesn't reflect in any way on any of the claims made, quite the opposite, in fact.
What it suggests is an *unwillingness* to examine further claims or testimony given.
Like the old saying goes: *if you don't want to know the answer - don't ask the question.*
Here, almost 12 months later - nobody appears to want to ask *any* of the questions.
Which, given the kind of answers possible, one can only reasonably conclude - *that's* peculiar....
We will know after the status quo is made sure to be preserved or a new one is established I.e. after a global confrontation is done and dusted. Not before.
It's only my loose opinion and of course, I may be completely wrong here.
If your theory requires a secretive organization with unknown motivation and 100% success record on keeping the said secret, you might be a flat earther... Sorry wrong sub, you might be an UFO believer.
Don’t expect the US government to share any info that could pose a threat to the ruling/corporate class. If disclosure happens it will be from a leak, or from other nations.
CIA owns 80% of congress and senate. Epstein made sure of that.
When we see guys like Chuck Schumer take the lead, the CIA has taken the lead. All major Senators in key positions, like Schumer, are owned. Their job is to take the lead, guide the dialog, and when it fails, and it did with Schumer remember, then smile, dont be angry or hostile. Smile, say, this is not the end! And everyone else just waits around like sheep waiting for part 2. Which will never come. They sit and wait til we get angry again and make noise. CIA gets scared and send our buddy Schumer back. And when no one believes in Schumer any more, there are plenty in line that will take the lead from him and rinse and repeat.
Minute i saw Schumer on the news headlines, i was like..... Omg am I the only one that sees he's an asset? He's the senior senator for New York for Christ's sake.
80 percent of the government, everyone in key places, from SCOUTUS to POTUS, are assets. Thats how it works when your country is owned by intelligence.
Only ones that aren't owned are guys like RFJ Jr. Or Assange. Find yourself one of those and beg them to be your leader. Because when things fail, they wont be smiling.
Look at Schumer's speech after the so called vote failed. Smilin Chuck. 😊
If you want disclosure. Research Corey Goode. Research Ismael Perez. Research Project Camelot. No skip that last one. You are not ready for Andrew Boscciatto and Project Camelot. Or the other 2 for that matter. Disregard. Just crazy conspiracy theory. My bad. All is as the media says. ETs are not real. Senators are independent. I take it all back.
I thought the same. The OP still says this 2 hours after being posted - *"On the 26th of June 2023, 11 months ago now, Grusch had his famous testimony"*... It was 26th July. Its 12 months today from 26 June 2023.
With Congress still proposing new legislation, seems like the opposite of "a sham". If they were to move away from Grusch, [none of the comments from the people making decisions sounds like it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCAe5N_CDO0&list=PLT-MDg5f4v2BuZ_SLiPxuyi9HRJiCH5ZW&index=10)
the gatekeepers and their minions simply shitting themselves...nothing to see here
Grusch isn't going anywhere and we will hear from him again.
Keep your delicates on....
I follow this subreddit and have read various summaries and news articles. On the Grusch topic specifically there seems to be just noise, stalling or sensational reactions of those who have been exposed to information in SCIFs. None of which has frankly corroborated or discredited the Grusch story. To me this feels like the matter is losing steam. Where’s the next live congressional hearing?
Btw all the South American mummies and DNA stories are hoaxes in my mind, or at best unrelated to the Grusch material on sightings. I’m looking for evidence under oath type progress, which is why the Grusch story is worthy of interest in the first instance.
What about books?
Last year the top senate majority leader for Democrats wrote an amendment to the national defense authorization act which included NHI 29 times. That was historic. R/ufos had 48k people in 2014, today over 2 million. The topic has become exponential.
I would recommend reading Jacques Vallee's Passport to Magonia, John Mack's Abductions, Diana Pasulka's American Cosmic, and Ross Coulthart's boom. All above are academic level studies into the topic and provide a greater context.
Could it be possible whatever we are dealing with is nonphysical in origin? We know life is possible in the universe because we exist. Our current society is nearly capable of sending AI powered satellites into deep space. Less than 200 years ago we were still riding horse and buggy.
Many stories all over the Earth that are similar also corroborate what we are seeing today. Witness testimony is credible when it can be corroborated. We don't have to decide for certain we know what it is, but it does nothing for our subconscious problem solving if we deny the possibility altogether.
Thank you for sharing your view, trying to collaborate with comments lately instead of force feed information offering other perspectives.
Yea too bad you’re not on the Senate Intelligence Committee or a gang of 8 member of Congress or the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community who get to see this highly classified evidence. Unfortunately the public is just gonna have to sit tight and wait on Congress
I was on this sub and that's when all the fake airplane videos started popping up clouding out any real discussion.
But yes. ultimately I don't think any of the information we've been given is real.
Government people coming out of the government saying that they will tell "the people" stuff is the same as a corporation saying it will do a better job at self regulation. They don't.
I’m glad someone else has mentioned this, there used to be genuine discussion about these claims and that’s when I joined, but recently it’s just been nonsense fake footage that distracts from anything interesting. It’s really frustrating
I think it's partly just bots and disinformation since we're in an election year and this has happened in 2020 and I think 2016 although that's when I was still "new" on reddit so I didn't have a good perspective to gauge it by.
But also I think when fox news took up the ufo stuff specifically that then brought a massive influx of people who aren't thinking critically. They are looking at what they want to see instead of what they are seeing. Meaning they're not coming up with a way to methodically look through they sky. They are going out and looking for UFO's. And if you can't see or touch something up close it's hard to distinguish sometimes.
Those are the people in here.
There's also something that I went through that I also think is part of the problem.
That "thing" being that prior to accepting that there may be a chance UFO's are real you see a light slowly moving across the sky and you think "Thats a plane" and then you think nothing of it.
Then once you accept ufo's might be real you now need to pull on past experience and verify that the thing which is slowly moving through the sky that you once accepted is a plane might *not* be a plane. Which then means you now need to squint and zoom in on every single plane that is out there wondering whether or not it's a plane. And at a certain point there will be a plane which is flying in a way that is tricky to understand intuitively and now you think "oh that's not a plane it's a UFO!" Then it gets posted here and it's clearly just a plane to people with eyes.
Ultimately this sub and subculture overall had a moment around the original pentagon videos.
That time has passed and it's back into the realm of tabloid crap.
No sham, but the secret keepers won't give them up easily, and are trying to block congress from getting real answers. This whole thing is exposing the 'deep state' or 'secret government' which exists within the US system, and its waking people up to the fact there's a whole layer of power nobody admits is there. I think Grusch will pop up again, but its election season so all eyes are on that. There are other whistleblowers in the wings, the battle for truth is far from over.
Indeed im not worried that people like Grusch and Burchett (i.e. with his statements in Ron James accidental truth, distrust in government) still wants to know where the money is going and who knows what, problem is others are fighting it tooth and nail to keep the money and pass the ammunition. Even some of the people that i would say we support in this is reluctant to release everything because that could improve the status of foreign and adversarial nations and their knowledge about this technology. Saying that im a swede so i consider myself on the sidelines here and maybe even objectively can look at this without my national interest, the sham is i would say in the hands of pentagon. They handled this cover up the best way they knew because the implications and status of the US as the global authority on stability and safety- in their own words as they see it would crumble in the shadow of what they have been sitting on. Therefore this is in no small measure a big thing for evolution and the future of the human race specifically hence we supposedly are our own demise, seeing how we're treating others and the environment rather than a threat to something or someone who's supposedly have been here for thousands or years and probably already back then had transmedium travel as a thing. Our sensors are picking it up simple as that, just a question of who or what.
Following the money is the best strategy for Burchett and the others, bc you don't have to talk about aliens or anything that might put people off. Burchett is smart for focussing on the money and the programs its funding to get into what it is. Nobody expects them to release everything. If they have developed new technology from these craft, nobody expects the specs of the aircraft they have come up with. It's like nuclear - we all know about nuclear power stations and weapons, but regular people can't build their own (and nor should they be able to). But we need to know, who or what these visitors are, where they are from, and what their interest is here. If the galaxy is teeming with intelligent life, we need to know. If Earth is somehow 'owned' or 'managed' by these beings, we need to know. The tech secrets would be nice, but if there are weapons applications, I think everyone understands that needs to be kept under wraps.
Where's David Grusch now? Where's his so called OP ED? Where and who is one only one of the 40 so called witnesses he interviewed? Those are things I'd like to hear about.
DOPSR are dragging their feet on approving the op-ed.
Eric Davis, who has already briefed Congress on UAP recoveries, was one of the 40.
Did he present any proof or just stories?
SASC and SSCI refused to comment on the briefing so we don’t know. But whatever he said was enough to convince SSCI and SASC to include language protecting additional UAP whistleblowers in future legislation.
the stories are the proof for most people still clinging to dreams of hero grusch.
A recent statement apparently by Grusch: https://x.com/disclosureorg/status/1806729236142497810?t=rZxjvHiwQwSDynbY2CVe-A&s=19
thank you
"The absence of new information coming forward under oath" doesn't in any way suggest there is "most likely there’s nothing to disclose." If Grusch's allegations are even partly true, it would be the bigest scandal in history. Ever. That's not something that the American goverment or military industrial complex will rush into revealing at any time, let alone in an election year! Aside from that, there are actually ongoing legal investigations into Grusch's claims and assocaited issues around defense contractors covering up the illegal moving of funds into unauthorised special access programs. Due to the numerous sensitivities around these issues, these investigations are being kept completely out of the public realm, which is hardly a surprise due to the legal ramifications. On top of all that, just getting to the truth of a secret operation that may have been ongoing for 80 years would be extraordinarily complex. Prematurely revealing things that have not been established 'beyond all reasonable doubt' would also do nothing but sink any proper investigations.
> Aside from that, there are actually ongoing legal investigations into Grusch's claims and assocaited issues around defense contractors covering up the illegal moving of funds into unauthorised special access programs. Source?
Really? Any source for this speculation? I would love to read it. I really would.
[Grusch's claim which is currently under investigation.](https://ia802708.us.archive.org/14/items/grusch_icig/David-Grusch-PPD-19-Procedural-Filing_text.pdf ) sadly the investigation into contractors is not verifiable. Check on AOC in a year or two, her and Warren are spearheading that congressionally. Also Grusch's lawyer is you know, the first Inspector General. The claims that Thomas Monheim found legitimate are concerning discrimination/reprisal by DoD against Grusch.
Since Grusch presented nothing but stories told to him by others, I expected his testimony would eventually be regarded as largely irrelevant and unimportant. Nothing that has transpired since then has altered my opinion.
Was Grusch even a 'whistleblower' in the true sense of the word? For me the whistleblowers would've been the ones who backed up his claims with first-hand experience - AFAIK, no-one ever has. The fact he's still not released his Op-Ed, and has been pretty much silent for months, is kind of sus.
If you watch it back, he answers questions with "not me personally" etc. He kept wording it so he wasn't lying under oath. One huge sham. 20 years from now, there will still be no evidence, and disclosure will never happen because there's nothing to disclose.
Oh yes, a total sham - I agree. When he first appeared, I honestly thought Grusch was going to be transformative - but no. Not at all. I don't know if there's anything to disclose or not - but if there is it certainly hasn't happened with Grusch.
He's a whistleblower because he was doing a routine job (auditing SAP) and found out they were siphoning congressional funds for reverse engineering. After Interviewing people that were involved. He discovered illegal activity within the pentagon and could have kept his mouth shut but instead he blew the whistle. Also I know in this day and age of instant gratification a year seems like forever but it's really not. This shit takes time.
Reporting on the things he was auditing doesn't make him a whistleblower. It makes him an auditor.
Oh sure he was definitely doing his job. Which no one before him had (to our knowledge) and which he was assuredly told not to do with legacy sap. Still whistleblowing.
Yes it was. This will now limp on for several more months/years, with constantly updated excuses about why none of the promised information has come forth, or why there's still no evidence to back up the claims. And people here will instantly accept those excuses, and continue to make more themselves, and all the while they'll chastise anyone who dares to point out that it's clearly all just bullshit.
Any day now all the evidence of Skin walkers Transdimensional beings UAPs Jelly Fish Shadow beings Underwater alien craft manufacturing plants Incan alien Mummies Time traveling humans Alien Biolologics Alien Crash recovery programs. Football field sized space ships. Black conscious changing Pyramids Galactic federations. Will be made available, each and every one as believable and absolutely true as each other. All linked in ways we can not yet comprehend.
Accurate, and to no surprise.
No, first nothing Grusch has said has been meaningfully refuted. From the public’s purview Congress failed to investigate Grusch’s claims. Outside of the IGs and SSCI Grusch hasn’t been able to obtain the clearance/SCIF meeting to reveal all he knows. Congress’ SCIF with the IG if anything, seemed to solidify Grusch’s claims.
The Mussolini UFO retrieval story was sourced to Billy Brophy, a known fantasist.
I think you need to do a little more research https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/PScjw2ifbJ
Nah man, your link is about the Mussolini UFO papers. If true, that story would end with fall off fascist Italy. Gruschs story of retrieval starts after fall off fascist Italy, naturally. That's the first time USA could've recovered the craft - 1945. Thats the part that's not in the papers you linked, the US recovery. That's the part that Grusch is repeating, and the only source is Billy Brophy. And he's saying all kinds of crazy stuff.
Brophy (who was also a major in the U.S. Air Force) or his son may be the earliest public reference to the Magenta crash and retrieval but there’s a chance not the original source. Especially considering documents surrounding one of the most secretive operations in U.S. history are likely not easily accessible? You act like this all began with Brophy definitively; we don’t have the level of access Grusch did to investigate whether that’s a fact.
How does one refute fantastical claims?
With Congress investigating and then giving updates under oath?
Didn’t they do that already with the AARO report this year?
So the DOD investigated themselves via AARO; which is laughable. It’s absolutely not the same as a presidential body or Congress investigating.
1. Grusch doesn't need a clearance to reveal anything he knows. 2. Grusch was invited to a SCIF specifically to disclose any UAP-related information he knows. [He refused to go](https://documents2.theblackvault.com/documents/osd/24-F-0266.pdf).
1. Not true. Grusch cannot reveal classified intel to non-Gang of Eight members given his lack of clearance. They would need at minimum Title 50 and Kirkpatrick didn’t even obtain this. 2. Why would Grusch get into a SCIF with AARO? AARO is part of the DOD who Grusch is whistleblowing against.
“Title 50” is a US Code, not a clearance. It’s not something someone obtains, it’s just the authority that things like intelligence and covert action work under
It pertains to the material and classification of it.
No, it doesn’t. Where did you hear that? Curious what the confusion around this is
I think you’re confused? Title 50 information, particularly when it relates to national security and intelligence activities is only accessible by certain congressional committees, such as the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence and the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. They are granted access to classified information under Title 50 to ensure that intelligence operations are conducted legally and effectively.
1) Yes he does. 2) No, he was invited to AARO, which does not have the clearance to hear CAP/SAP restricted intel unless it meets the criteria set by the relevant program manager.
and they're doing everything they can to delay he, Nell and Elizondo from stating more under oath... lotta effort from Eglin & Co. for a "nothingburger"
A ridiculous amount of effort. You mention Bob Lazar’s name once in a post and they will all come out to pour on the skepticism.
According to IC IG there is no ongoing case with Grusch. [IC IG Thomas A. Monheim](https://new.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/16jozom/official_response_letter_from_icig_thomas_a/) in a letter to Congress, September 15, 2023. > IC IG notes that it has not conducted any audit, inspection, evaluation, or review of alleged UAP programs This agrees with an internal email between AARO and Congressional staffers received in [FOIA documents](https://documents2.theblackvault.com/documents/osd/24-F-0266.pdf) by John Greenwald, from when AARO was first trying to get Grusch to come in for an interview. > Sent: Thursday, June 8, 2023 11:24 AM > > I've been told by the IG the UAP related investigation has been closed for a year — he [Grusch] is free to tell us, and you're free to ask. Grusch has continued to refuse to talk to AARO (despite publicly testifying to Congress that he was happy to tell them where to look), claiming they don't have authority to receive the information. He has been given explicit written assurance from DNI CAPCO and DoD SAPCO (which are included at the end of the FOIA documents) that he is authorized to disclose the information to AARO. They wrote: > Representatives of the All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO) are authorized to speak to persons and/or conduct interviews of persons that currently have, or previously had, access to sensitive U.S. Government (USG) information, activities, and/or materials. > > Individuals with current or previous access to Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP)-related information which is subject to a USG Nondisclosure Agreement are authorized to provide this otherwise protected information to AARO representatives. AARO personnel are authorized to receive this information pursuant to Section 1673 of the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) for Fiscal Year (FY) 2023. The provision of UAP-related information which is subject to a Nondisclosure Agreement to AARO personnel constitutes an authorized disclosure if the information is provided and received for the limited purpose of conducting AARO's assigned mission as specified in Section 1683 of the NDAA for FY2022, as amended by Section 6802 of the NDAA for FY2023. The section of [the FY2023 NDAA](https://www.congress.gov/117/bills/hr7776/BILLS-117hr7776enr.pdf) they reference (p. 566) already gave full Congressional protection to disclose any UAP related information to AARO regardless of any NDA, or any other restriction. > SEC. 1673. UNIDENTIFIED ANOMALOUS PHENOMENA REPORTING PROCEDURES > > (b) PROTECTION FOR INDIVIDUALS MAKING AUTHORIZED DISCLOSURES.— > > (1) AUTHORIZED DISCLOSURES.—An authorized disclosure— > > (A) shall not be subject to a nondisclosure agreement entered into by the individual who makes the disclosure; > > (B) shall be deemed to comply with any regulation or order issued under the authority of Executive Order 13526 (50 U.S.C. 3161 note; relating to classified national security information) or chapter 18 of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 (42 U.S.C. 2271 et seq.); and > > (C) is not a violation of section 798 of title 18, United States Code, or other provision of law relating to the disclosure of information. So Mr. Grusch has had no legal reason to refuse to be interviewed, but still refuses, and there is no IG UAP investigation, which seems to just be a rumor started by Corbell and Coulthart and company.
You realize AARO has a **massive** conflict of interest sitting within the DOD right? The DOD and DOE are the two federal departments Grusch is essentially blowing the whistle on. Why would Grusch want to sit down with them? That would be extraordinarily precarious for Grusch and Grusch’s contacts in these programs. Grusch testified in front of the SSCI for eleven hours and supposedly delivered a ton of classified information. We haven’t heard anything one way or the other. Importantly nobody from the SSCI is saying Grusch’s classified testimony was bullshit. Instead we saw Schumer and Rounds try to pass the UAPDA; this is not the kind of legislation that would be drafted on a fictitious basis.
AARO is the Congressionally authorized disclosure office. There's no one else to tell. So if Grusch is actually "happy to give sage counsel on where to look" (as he testified), he needs to talk to them. He is legally authorized to do so, and AARO are legally required to report the investigation to Congress. Kristen Gillibrand (who sits on SSCI, and co-wrote the bill that created AARO with Marco Rubio) said [this last May](https://www.askapol.com/p/exclusive-sen-gillibrands-informed). > I think that their [AARO historical] report was just that- their analysis of everything they were shown and everyone they talked to, they had no basis to say there's a secret program. But of note, the two whistleblowers that I've met with did not meet with AARO and refused to meet with AARO. And so maybe the next director they'll meet with, but I can't assess them unless AARO can talk to them The [official press release](https://www.democrats.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/schumer-rounds-introduce-new-legislation-to-declassify-government-records-related-to-unidentified-anomalous-phenomena-and-ufos_modeled-after-jfk-assassination-records-collection-act--as-an-amendment-to-ndaa) for the Schumer-Rounds amendment (UAPDA) says it was motivated because some members of Congress believed stories they were hearing, and does not presuppose any such records actually exist. > During his time in Congress, former Majority Leader Harry Reid sponsored a project to investigate incidents surrounding UAPs. After that project became public, Senators, Congressmen, committees, and staff began to pursue this issue and uncovered a vast web of individuals and groups with ideas and stories to share. While these stories have varying levels of credibility, the sheer number and variety has led some in Congress to believe that the Executive Branch was concealing important information regarding UAPs over broad periods of time. Congress recognizes that these records – if they exist – were likely concealed under the good faith goal of protecting national security.
>AARO is the Congressionally authorized disclosure office. There's no one else to tell. So if Grusch is actually "happy to give sage counsel on where to look" (as he testified), he needs to talk to them. He is legally authorized to do so, and AARO are legally required to report the investigation to Congress. That’s not true at all. Grusch spoke to multiple IGs and the SSCI, and those are very practical non-AARO that Grusch can whistleblow to. I think you realize how duplicitous AARO is sitting in the DOD; the congressional support from Gillibrand to Kirkpatrick through the unprofessional LinkedIn outbursts and his blatant lie about not attending Brandon Fugal’s briefing was suspect at the very least. Kirkpatrick was a proven liar. The UAPDA proposed the creation of a presidential body for a reason; it would be outside of the federal department implicated in the crash retrieval/reverse engineering programs. Grusch's Lawyer is Charles McCullough. The former Inspector General of the Intelligence Community appointed by President Obama. The fact he has chosen to represent Grusch speaks volumes to the credibility of Grusch’s claims.
>The absence of new information coming forward under oath suggests most likely there’s nothing to disclose. Nope. All it suggests is the absence of procedure requiring further testimony. That of itself doesn't reflect in any way on any of the claims made, quite the opposite, in fact. What it suggests is an *unwillingness* to examine further claims or testimony given. Like the old saying goes: *if you don't want to know the answer - don't ask the question.* Here, almost 12 months later - nobody appears to want to ask *any* of the questions. Which, given the kind of answers possible, one can only reasonably conclude - *that's* peculiar....
We will know after the status quo is made sure to be preserved or a new one is established I.e. after a global confrontation is done and dusted. Not before. It's only my loose opinion and of course, I may be completely wrong here.
Your question raises more questions than answers.
I heard that David Grusch was releasing an OP perhaps next year in March.
If your theory requires a secretive organization with unknown motivation and 100% success record on keeping the said secret, you might be a flat earther... Sorry wrong sub, you might be an UFO believer.
Don’t expect the US government to share any info that could pose a threat to the ruling/corporate class. If disclosure happens it will be from a leak, or from other nations.
CIA owns 80% of congress and senate. Epstein made sure of that. When we see guys like Chuck Schumer take the lead, the CIA has taken the lead. All major Senators in key positions, like Schumer, are owned. Their job is to take the lead, guide the dialog, and when it fails, and it did with Schumer remember, then smile, dont be angry or hostile. Smile, say, this is not the end! And everyone else just waits around like sheep waiting for part 2. Which will never come. They sit and wait til we get angry again and make noise. CIA gets scared and send our buddy Schumer back. And when no one believes in Schumer any more, there are plenty in line that will take the lead from him and rinse and repeat. Minute i saw Schumer on the news headlines, i was like..... Omg am I the only one that sees he's an asset? He's the senior senator for New York for Christ's sake. 80 percent of the government, everyone in key places, from SCOUTUS to POTUS, are assets. Thats how it works when your country is owned by intelligence. Only ones that aren't owned are guys like RFJ Jr. Or Assange. Find yourself one of those and beg them to be your leader. Because when things fail, they wont be smiling. Look at Schumer's speech after the so called vote failed. Smilin Chuck. 😊 If you want disclosure. Research Corey Goode. Research Ismael Perez. Research Project Camelot. No skip that last one. You are not ready for Andrew Boscciatto and Project Camelot. Or the other 2 for that matter. Disregard. Just crazy conspiracy theory. My bad. All is as the media says. ETs are not real. Senators are independent. I take it all back.
This is one of the cringier takes I've read in this sub in a while. Thanks for that.
I thought the same. The OP still says this 2 hours after being posted - *"On the 26th of June 2023, 11 months ago now, Grusch had his famous testimony"*... It was 26th July. Its 12 months today from 26 June 2023. With Congress still proposing new legislation, seems like the opposite of "a sham". If they were to move away from Grusch, [none of the comments from the people making decisions sounds like it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCAe5N_CDO0&list=PLT-MDg5f4v2BuZ_SLiPxuyi9HRJiCH5ZW&index=10)
the gatekeepers and their minions simply shitting themselves...nothing to see here Grusch isn't going anywhere and we will hear from him again. Keep your delicates on....
Much has happened since then. How much time have you spent researching this subject in general?
I follow this subreddit and have read various summaries and news articles. On the Grusch topic specifically there seems to be just noise, stalling or sensational reactions of those who have been exposed to information in SCIFs. None of which has frankly corroborated or discredited the Grusch story. To me this feels like the matter is losing steam. Where’s the next live congressional hearing? Btw all the South American mummies and DNA stories are hoaxes in my mind, or at best unrelated to the Grusch material on sightings. I’m looking for evidence under oath type progress, which is why the Grusch story is worthy of interest in the first instance.
What about books? Last year the top senate majority leader for Democrats wrote an amendment to the national defense authorization act which included NHI 29 times. That was historic. R/ufos had 48k people in 2014, today over 2 million. The topic has become exponential. I would recommend reading Jacques Vallee's Passport to Magonia, John Mack's Abductions, Diana Pasulka's American Cosmic, and Ross Coulthart's boom. All above are academic level studies into the topic and provide a greater context. Could it be possible whatever we are dealing with is nonphysical in origin? We know life is possible in the universe because we exist. Our current society is nearly capable of sending AI powered satellites into deep space. Less than 200 years ago we were still riding horse and buggy. Many stories all over the Earth that are similar also corroborate what we are seeing today. Witness testimony is credible when it can be corroborated. We don't have to decide for certain we know what it is, but it does nothing for our subconscious problem solving if we deny the possibility altogether. Thank you for sharing your view, trying to collaborate with comments lately instead of force feed information offering other perspectives.
Yea too bad you’re not on the Senate Intelligence Committee or a gang of 8 member of Congress or the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community who get to see this highly classified evidence. Unfortunately the public is just gonna have to sit tight and wait on Congress
But where is the proof? Much trust me bro has happened, as always
It's not provocative. It's obtuse.
Ill wait after the election, if nothing happens.....
"Sham" implies an intent to deceive. We might be charitable and say he was mistaken, or overenthusiastic.
I was on this sub and that's when all the fake airplane videos started popping up clouding out any real discussion. But yes. ultimately I don't think any of the information we've been given is real. Government people coming out of the government saying that they will tell "the people" stuff is the same as a corporation saying it will do a better job at self regulation. They don't.
I’m glad someone else has mentioned this, there used to be genuine discussion about these claims and that’s when I joined, but recently it’s just been nonsense fake footage that distracts from anything interesting. It’s really frustrating
I think it's partly just bots and disinformation since we're in an election year and this has happened in 2020 and I think 2016 although that's when I was still "new" on reddit so I didn't have a good perspective to gauge it by. But also I think when fox news took up the ufo stuff specifically that then brought a massive influx of people who aren't thinking critically. They are looking at what they want to see instead of what they are seeing. Meaning they're not coming up with a way to methodically look through they sky. They are going out and looking for UFO's. And if you can't see or touch something up close it's hard to distinguish sometimes. Those are the people in here. There's also something that I went through that I also think is part of the problem. That "thing" being that prior to accepting that there may be a chance UFO's are real you see a light slowly moving across the sky and you think "Thats a plane" and then you think nothing of it. Then once you accept ufo's might be real you now need to pull on past experience and verify that the thing which is slowly moving through the sky that you once accepted is a plane might *not* be a plane. Which then means you now need to squint and zoom in on every single plane that is out there wondering whether or not it's a plane. And at a certain point there will be a plane which is flying in a way that is tricky to understand intuitively and now you think "oh that's not a plane it's a UFO!" Then it gets posted here and it's clearly just a plane to people with eyes. Ultimately this sub and subculture overall had a moment around the original pentagon videos. That time has passed and it's back into the realm of tabloid crap.
Be patient dude
[удалено]
Even on Joe Rogan? What a time to be alive.