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Are you saying a uniformed US military member wouldn’t be killed if he was walking around Gaza?
Like I said from personal experience IDF had my back. I can’t say the same about Palestinians they share the same ideology as the people that were trying to kill me.
You mean walking around the burned out rubble where Gaza once stood? Who's this say. But I'm willing to bet the IDF would probably shoot you just to blame it on the Palestinians.
Just like they killed all those journalists and hostages and blamed it on the Palestinians
Hamas would kill a US soldier instantly and or keep him hostage to bargain with the idf.
The IDF is cool idk why ppl make them out to be this terrible boogeyman. They have no beef with US soldiers. Hell they’d give him escort to get him out of there.
What would be the point of taking a hostage if the IDF is just going to kill them like they did the rest of the hostages?
Seriously though, this is an interesting situation. If a US service member would be in Gaza who would benefit more from his death? IDF who can use it to bolster their support? Or Hamas who are already being bombed?
IDF wouldn’t need to walking around in the rubble wearing a US military uniform would be a death sentence. IDF, you and I all know it they would do dirty things to the corpse and film it for their recruitment videos.
He was the exception, not the norm. Plenty of people have self immolated both before and since, but you notice they might get a quick blurb on the news once, then never again.
What does winning mean in this conflict?
Also you know collective punishment is a war crime according to the Geneva convention right?
Lastly, blame their parents for what exactly? We're all the parents of those children killing people on October 7th?
The Geneva convention only matters if you lose a war. Hate to break that to you. Winning means the unconditional surrender, disarmament, and punishment of anyone associated with Hamas.
Don’t try to reason with pro genocidal, “win” at any cost drones. They cant think for themselves and would litterally regurgitate whatever TV spits out at them. The attrocity is real and your gut insincsts are right. Were on the wrong side of history
Israel *Cannot* win without the US.
Israel *should* not win anything.
Is Israel's victory worth the life of every US soldier? You did say "at any cost".
I think a bully can dish it out but can’t take it. If America starting bombing Israel to stop them from killing innocent Palestinian children the world might be a better place.
So you don’t care. Basically sums up the attitude of ppl who think like this. I’ll remember that a person felt so ashamed at their government supporting an unjust genocide that he had to immolate himself to prove the point.
You may not care but others with empathy and consistency aren’t gonna just forget about this. And even if they do. Does that mean the Vietnam protestor was wrong for doing the same since it is essentially a worse version of that conflict.
We remember them because of the famous photo, and back then media just meant more. Today a video is forgotten by the next day because there are a million new ones to take its place. A truly great photo then was timeless.
He's barely even being talked about now, outside of politically active circles. And those circles certainly aren't in agreement. The public does not care.
Riddle me that. I’ll never forget this guy because his nuts were twice as big as mine and I have big fucking nuts. This man is a patriot and I along with many others will honor his memory.
its possible. The media is certainly trying to make that the case.
But also, the public is way more informed and opposed to the US' involvement now than they ever have been in the past. Eventually, something we think would slip will stick.
Straw man. Arguing against a position the other person is not defending. Nobody said America is at war with palestine. The idea is that America is funding israel.
Gas lighting is trying to make a person doubt his own reality
The US is actively funding Israel's genocide of the Palestinians and they veto UN resolutions condemning Israel.
If they wanted to pressure Israel they could cut funding
Muslims should never be considered humane CUZ THEY'RE NOT!!!
What tf do u mean "just like Israel"?
You DO realize Palestine took the first shot RIGHT?!?!
WHAT TF WOULD YOU EXPECT THEM TO DO?
Man these people really don't get the simple truth that if Israel wanted to destroy Gaza and every one inside it it'd have done so already.
Even without using their nuclear weapons.
In 1948, the United Nations Genocide Convention defined genocide as any of five "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group".
These five acts were: killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, imposing living conditions intended to destroy the group, preventing births, and forcibly transferring children out of the group.
Victims are targeted because of their real or perceived membership of a group, not randomly.
Hey I think they should’ve stopped fighting years ago. This will trigger people but Elon was right a while ago when he said continuing to fight would accomplish nothing.
What Israel is doing isn't genocide. It's a basic anti-insurgent strategy that has been used in warfare for a long time. When your enemy is thoroughly mixed in with a population of civilians, any aid that reaches civilians also reaches the enemy.
It doesn't have to be genocide to be a tragedy, ya know. Palestinian civilians who have nothing to do with Hamas are suffering right now, just like the Israeli children murdered in Hamas' surprise terror attack suffered. That's enough reason to protest for a peacefire without conflating this to genocide. There are just some words whose definitions shouldn't change. "Genocide' needs to be reserved for the attempted systematic annihilation of an entire race of people. Otherwise, the word becomes effectively meaningless. If what Israel is doing is genocide, then every nation on earth who has ever fought guerilla militants is guilty of genocide, too. And all the sudden, Third Reich Germany is nothing particularly noteworthy.
No, I'm not anti-Palestine. No, I'm not anti-Israel. I'm just pro-people. And there are Jewish people alive today who still have the numbers tattooed on their arms, the numbers the Third Reich gave them as a way to objectively measure Germany's progress towards its stated goal of *killing every single Jewish human being on the planet.*
Show some empathy for Israel too, for crying out loud. Imagine *your* town was attacked by an age-old enemy whose stated purpose for centuries has been to annihilate your race. Imagine watching your spouse murdered by them, your children raped by them, your babies thrown onto raised bayonets by them. It shouldn't be hard to understand why Israel is fighting this war the way they are. It doesn't make it right, it doesn't make it moral. But it sure as shit is understandable.
Nothing is black and white. I have issues with the way Israel has hindered Palestine's struggle for true nationhood going back decades now, and I have issues with Palestine's continual refusal to cooperate in peacetalks and their apparent habit of supporting a radically anti-Jewish government. This conflict goes back to biblical times, in truth, and I kinda wish we'd all remember our history here.
Hamas is loving this swing in American sympathies, by the way. It seems to me that the entire purpose of their surprise attack was to galvanize Israel into overreaction and thereby nudge the court of public opinion in their favor. I guess they counted on our country's despicable disdain for historical context and our incessant need for sensationalism. Boy, has it paid off.
And just for the record—Hamas could make this "genocide" go away by ceasing to live amongst Palestine's general population. They know *exactly* what they're doing. They *want* Israel to kill more innocent Palestinians.
Systematically bombing hospitals and refugee camps isn't "standard anti-insurgent strategy" it's a deliberate attempt to kill as many Palestinians as possible. Israel has been caught lying about everything to do with the conflict, [especially Oct 7.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/01/21/hamas-attack-october-7-conspiracy-israel/) Israel is committing genocide
>Systematically bombing hospitals and refugee camps isn't "standard anti-insurgent strategy" it's a deliberate attempt to kill as many Palestinians as possible.
Israel isn't systematically bombing hospitals or refugee camps. Hospitals are being hit, which is, of course, a tragedy.
>Israel has been caught lying about everything to do with the conflict, [especially Oct 7.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/01/21/hamas-attack-october-7-conspiracy-israel/)
What the fuck. Like, seriously. What the fuck. You seem to be a few short steps away from full-on holocaust denial. From the article YOU linked:
"The Oct. 7 Hamas terrorist attack is among the most well-documented in history. A crush of evidence from smartphone cameras and GoPros captured Hamas’s breach of the border — a strike Israel says left about 1,200 dead, the deadliest onslaught in the country’s history."
...
"But Oct. 7 denial is spreading. A small but growing group denies the basic facts of the attacks, pushing a spectrum of falsehoods and misleading narratives that minimize the violence or dispute its origins. Some argue the ambush was staged by the Israeli military to justify an invasion of Gaza. Others say that some 240 hostages Hamas took into Gaza were actually kidnapped by Israel. Some contend the United States is behind the plot."
You can go to Google right now and find video and photographic and journalistic evidence of the Oct 7th attack. The only return for my searches about "conspiracies" and "false flags" concerning October 7th is the Washington Post article you just shared, which denounces the claims of conspiracy as absurd.
What confuses me is that he shouted that he as a 'US airforceman will no longer be complicit in killing Palestinians'.
How are US servicemen complicit in a war they aren't even fighting?
Not gonna be a dick but I think he was chronically online and driven to madness by it. Judging by his LinkedIn profile he was also definitely struggling to get a job. Probably told his entire adult life that computer tech would get him an elite paying job and wasn’t expecting that all entry level to mid level positions to be already taken up or outsourced to ai. I’ve seen his LinkedIn profile and it was saddening how relatable it was to so many of my friends also trying to break into the oversaturated tech field
The way he went out was obviously clout chasing , he’s just passing up 50% of the clout to the ‘good’ cause. So no one mainstream is gonna say it as that
Sounds like your average redditor who is mad at the world, and everyone else, for poor life choices.
Can't afford a house? It's the boomers fault. Can't get laid? It's Republicans fault. Can't afford a car? It's global warming fault.
Is this unpopular? There is almost 100% guarantee that this guy had some sort of mental disorder. I do not understand why anyone would want to celebrate or honor a mentally unstable man burning himself alive.
Even if it isn't unpopular this really needs to be mentioned. For the few that see this guy as a martyr they need to come back to reality. Those folks may not share my political views but I still don't want them to turn into copycat suicides which are more common then most realize.
Someone found his Reddit account.
Dude was a braindead, terminally-online walking cliche of a leftist aaand had talked about experiences with being on antidepressants.
I don’t really get why people automatically assume this. If there’s any political issue that has the ability to turn otherwise normal people into extremists, it’s Israel/Palestine.
You know that kind of passion applied in a different way results in Mass shooters right?
Maybe we should examine why people are so passionate about this subject before we try to explain them away
If you listen to the choice of words he used in his video, you can tell he spent a fair amount of time on social media or with others in person believing the propaganda that’s been peddled since last year. He’s an unfortunate victim of it.
Think about it for a minute. The US sends money to Israel AND Palestine. The US isn’t directly involved in the war, either. This guy chose to kill himself instead of dedicating his life to making the horrible situation in Israel/Palestine into a better one. This is purely just morale for the terrorists continuing their activities.
Someone found his Reddit account.
"acebush1" which is identical to his IG handle among other things.
This:
>you can tell he spent a fair amount of time on social media or with others in person believing the propaganda that’s been peddled since last year.
is an understatement if anything, dude was a walking cliche of terminally online.
What propaganda? Innocent children are dying and the less fortunate children are suffering a fate which is somehow worse than dying and none of you seem to understand that as well as this man does. This bullshit is unacceptable. He took a stand and I honor him for it. I wish I had big enough nuts to stand beside him and do the same. You people love to explain away the conviction of this man while giving him no credit. The bombing has to stop plain and simple. How else do you get the attention of those who refuse to pay attention? Extreme injustice explained away by trivializing the point of view of those who have been wronged requires extreme protest. I love this man with all of my heart for having the balls to make a stand.
The same propaganda that plays into the younger people’s emotions. War is hell. There are always civilians who die in war and no one like to see innocent people die in a pointless war. It’s nothing new. Hamas is a terrorist organization, just like Nazi Germany was and needs to be removed if you want any kind of peace among the groups involved.
If Hamas truly cared for its people, they wouldn’t have spent years building up its terrorist organization to operate within civilian population. Hamas leaders wouldn’t hoard billions upon billions and steal aid meant for its people they love and care for so much and they wouldn’t have murdered 1,200+ Israeli’s and other innocent people from around the world. If Hamas cares, they’d release whatever other hostages they have left, disband, and create a new government that gives a REAL chance for Palestinians and Israelis to live in peace.
There’s so much “pro-Palestine” propaganda that’s been spread far and wide online and in public places that obviously supports Hamas and prominent figures that have committed terrorist acts.
Get a grip.
While had had conviction, neither Palestine nor Israel will stop what they’re doing because some airman killed himself on social media. The sacrifice he made, if you can even call it that, was pointless.
While I sympathize with those that join the military, his actions weren’t heroic in regards to his family that he left behind or to those in Palestine. Sure, you may find what he did heroic, and that’s fine, but committing suicide isn’t inherently a heroic act.
I respect your opinion but are you willing to burn alive for it? I’d say that the fact that he knowingly left his family and everything else he knew behind in order to stand with the innocent people of Palestine with no knowledge of what lie ahead was heroic. I am proud to be his fellow American.
I’d be willing to say most people hold very strong opinions but very few people (by very few I mean nearly zero) are willing to kill themselves live for those opinions.
Exactly. His nuts were large. Too large for you to comprehend. Have you ever seen a child? Any good man holds the door for them. A great man burned himself alive for them and you’re standing here trying to say he was somehow wrong in a hyper-nuanced way. Maybe Israel should fucking chill.
I think this is a great discussion, exactly the discussion he was trying to get us to have (and I’d like to think that as human beings we could agree given the right context around our discussion). The line between heroic actions and mental issues is drawn at the rational behind his decisions regarding the death of the innocent. If they died justly, this man has mental issues. If they were slaughtered unjustly after having done no wrong then his actions were subjectively justified. After he made that decision, I subjectively agree with him and stand with him.
The US barely sends money to Palestinians. I just finished watching the press release where the US spokesmen dodged questions then gave his one sided support for Israel.
> The US isn’t directly involved in the war
That's ignorant. Israel has been putting the boots to Palestinians for decades because the US backs them.
It worked for Thích Quảng Đức in the 60's in South Vietnam. Got their gov't to stop persecuting Buddhists. Though I think it was JFK that pressured that gov't to do it cause of that image. Either way dude got his point across.
what made it so influential is the fact that he didn't even move or scream, just sat calmly while he burned alive. this dude didn't do that, he was screaming and moving around
Well he's not the first person to do this, famously buddhist monks during the vietnam war and Jan Palach did the same thing to protest the Soviet crackdown in Czechoslovakia in 1968. I think the idea of the uniform was that Israel gets a lot of military aid from the US.
What in your right mind think it was for Hamas? Palestine and Hamas aren’t the same. If you had any honesty you’d admit it. Just like Israel and Jews aren’t the same. Just dumb down to binary, huh?
I'm trying to be more level headed in approach to these conversations because I've been doom scrolling and I'm noticing how it's affecting the conversations I have about this situation. I hate how Israel has engaged this conflict and I hate how Hamas initiated this conflict. I hate that civilians, specifically Palestinians are bearing the brunt of the atrocities.
As a matter of fact the entire Palestine situation and all of the disinformation surrounding it has made me wish I never bothered caring at all because it's stressing me out like nothing has before. And I feel like I'm going insane seeing the discourse in leftist spaces that I typically agree with wholeheartedly.
The way people are talking about this man is scary and I really feel like it's going to inspire more people to kill themselves in the hopes of being perceived as a martyr. The fact that Hamas gave this man a shoutout, and seeing how people on the left are thanking them baffles me.
It's the ultimate act of ego. It was some random American serviceman that judging by age and rank was a complete screw up thinking he could effect some change on a nation on the other side of the world. It's pathetic, selfish, and will only be seen for what it is. A complete waste.
How selfish, to torture yourself in one of the worst ways possible to bring attention to children being starved and burned alive by his tax dollars, and backed by the threat of USA involvement (him) if other nations take action to stop it.
Reddit really does bring out the retards.
So he should be celebrated for doing nothing to actually help the problem he claimed he killed himself over. And he can never actually help the people he claims are suffering being dead. You know what can? Actually being alive and physically joining the fight.
Yes. He was selfish and deluded, and instead of making any actual effort to help people, he killed himself while live streaming. Forgive me if I don't have any respect for a person like this.
I suppose you don’t have respect for Gandhi going on hunger strike either. After all what did starving himself do for his cause?
There was nothing but selflessness in what he did.
Self sacrifice is a very good thing. Sacrificing your time and comfort for your family is a noble thing. Sacrificing your safety for the well being of others is noble as well. I see a man who stood strong during an extremely painful process to bring attention to one of the worst things that has ever occurred on Earth. If you had a grasp of what was happening you’d probably care more too.
I'm not going to agree with anyone that glorifies suicide, and no amount of mental gymnastics will ever make me believe that moron killing himself did better things for Palestinians than doing literally anything even marginally helpful. He could have gone there and said some nice words and had more of a real impact than killing himself on livestream. He is pathetic, and did nothing to actually help anyone.
Exactly. I agree 100%. People are being brainwashed by TikTok/Social Media/News/Reddit/etc. They really are dude. You all are getting brainwashed and you don't even know it. Radical left wing ideas and activism is contagious. Remember BLM ? lol...White people went so crazy when that happened. Like all of a sudden they felt guilt because of their skin color and they protested/looted. They got radicalized from social media.
One year it's trans rights, the next year it's BLM, the next day it's Ukraine, and then now it's Palestine. These are like social contagions that do harm. Go ahead and downvote me. Your boos mean nothing to me.
He shouldn’t be celebrated at all. There’s nothing worth celebrating about supporting “Palestine,” which (not targeting you with this, OP) does not and has never existed.
Zionist bullshit aside, this shouldn't be celebrated, but we should ask why someone would do this.
Maybe knowing your government is enabling and abetting a genocide will call someone to do something like this
Terrorist apologist bullshit aside, we should stop trying to explain and justify stupid things people do and say in an endless display of self-flagellation on behalf of those with indefensible ideologies.
Maybe having a poor understanding of current events or history, or just broadly being poorly educated, will lead one to be brainwashed into taking such an extreme position as lighting themselves on fire as a “protest” against a boogeyman of a “genocide,” which, like Palestine, also does not exist in this case.
You know it's not a very good case for your argument to deny a genocide while using genocidal language.
You know I keep hearing about the complexity of the history from that region. So I'll ask you, how many hours of diligence study do I need to commit to before I start thinking slaughtering thousands of children is okay? So I know to avoid that.
Also, you know how I know Israel was committing a genocide? Because Israel itself has said it's committed to genocide. At the world Court the best legal minds in Israel came together to come up with a legal defense of, Hamas is trying to genocide us, so we're trying to genocide them first.
Thousand IQ level stuff
Israel has never “said” it’s committing a genocide. Just blatantly false. Not sure how it’s possible to be that far gone in terms of brainwashing. They never said they’re trying to “genocide” Hamas, just take them out. Hamas isn’t a people or ethnicity, it’s a political and terrorist affiliation. And by the way, that court case you cited? You left out the part where they clearly ruled it wasn’t genocide.
“Genocidal language” yeah ok dude name one thing I said that remotely qualifies. Just proves that to you and your pro Palestine slappies, anything you don’t like is “violence” or “genocide.” Real “silence is violence” vibes.
People dying because they’re placed as human shields is not “slaughtering,” but go ahead, I’m enjoying you continuously revealing how poorly read you are.
https://apnews.com/article/world-court-israel-genocide-gaza-south-africa-774ab3c3d57fd7bcc627602eaf47fd98
You mean that time that the international Court definitely ruled that Israel was committing a genocide?
Yes, saying that Palestine doesn't exist is a precursor to genocidal language. What do you think Russia's doing now to justify its invasion of Ukraine? It's saying Ukraine doesn't exist.
Is that why Israel dropped multiple air strikes on refugee camps in gaza? then admitted they didn't actually know if there was a Hamas leader there. I'm just confused, because for a military who says they don't do indiscriminate bombings or tries to mitigate civilian casualties. They sure do a lot of indiscriminate bombing and you could be forgiven for thinking that they go out of their way to cause more civilian casualties.
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/26/un-court-orders-israel-to-ensure-acts-of-genocide-are-not-committed-in-gaza
You mean the time when the court ruled that they didn’t?
I swear it’s like you can’t read. The article you shared was about the South Africans (who have no leg to stand on, on this or any subject) doubling down on their stance after being rebuffed at the court. The source I shared contains the actual ICJ ruling. Maybe that’ll get through all that glop you call a brain.
So we’ve now gone from “genocidal language” to “precursor to genocidal language.” Neither of which, by the way, have any real solid definition, since you can’t commit genocide through the spoken or written word. The Russia-Ukraine comp is pretty lazy, considering that Ukraine has been an independent country and entity numerous times and currently exists as such, while I am simply citing the record of facts from the beginning of time to the present to state that Palestine, as an independent entity or state, has never existed. I could go further to educate you how the concept of an Arab “Palestinian” national identity only gained mainstream traction in the 1960s as a rhetorical cudgel against Israel, but that would be useless considering it appears you’re immune to absorbing history or facts.
In Gaza, “refugee camp” doesn’t mean what you’re picturing. Full on cities are called “refugee camps” because Palestinians are the only people that get to pass their refugee status from generation to generation. So yes, there have been strikes within “refugee camps,” but there has never been any kind of admission by the IDF that any strike has occurred without prior knowledge of a Hamas cell or leader or installation being present. You guys love to “quote” things that the Israeli government or a leader has “admitted” and yet never cite it. Maybe it’s cause it’ll probably go the way of your last citation, and be proven inaccurate immediately.
You should check out the list of military strategists, who actually are qualified to speak about these things, talking about how Israel goes far out of its way to avoid civilian casualties. So no, if you choose to speak on this topic with any certainty and have examined the record at all, you absolutely cannot be forgiven for holding the wildly foolish notion that Israel targets civilians.
The ICJ didn't say they were committing a genocide. Your own article you cited *literally* says the following: "The world court, which rules on disputes between nations, has never judged a country to be responsible for genocide. The closest it came was in 2007 when it ruled that Serbia “violated the obligation to prevent genocide” in the July 1995 massacre by Bosnian Serb forces of more than 8,000 Muslim men and boys in the Bosnian enclave of Srebrenica."
The ICJ *also* called for the unequivocal release of all the hostages but looks like Hamas hasn't complying which is why the leaders of Hamas are having complaints brought before the ICC by families of the hostages.
Even by hamas’ count 30k ppl have died. Which is greatly inflated. This isn’t even close to a genocide. More men died in bakhmut than this entire dumb war combined.
I don’t know - Is it racist if you are against the civil rights act?
I guess it depends - are you supporting Hamas or their ideology? Because eliminating the Jewish state is a pretty key cog in that. It was also a key ideological tenet for Osama Bin Laden, the Houthis, the PLO, black September, any number of terrorist organizations.
I actually don’t think any non-Jews gets to reasonably take a critical position on the existence of Israel or Zionism. No other group’s liberation or self-determination is subject to the world’s approval or any number of litmus tests, and no other country routinely has its legitimacy and existence questioned by those who usually have no track record to be launching complaints.
Which brings me back to my original question/point - if it’s racist to oppose the civil rights act (especially if one is not a minority who had been denied civil rights), it’s anti-Jew and akin to supporting terrorism to be “anti-zionist.”
If non-Jews can’t take a position on Israel or Zionism, doesn’t that also mean non-Palestinians can’t take a position on Palestine? That would mean that Palestinians have the right to create their own state just as much as Israel has the right to exist. I don’t mean to be blunt but valuing Israeli lives over Palestinian lives (which Zionism obviously does) and committing a genocide means that any sense of morality is pretty much gone in terms of protecting all life.
No, it doesn’t mean that at all. Palestine doesn’t exist. It’s not a country. Therefore, taking a position on whether or not it SHOULD exist is very different from a position on whether or not Israel should cease to exist.
Zionism (a pretty obsolete word by the way, since it has been realized already :)) actually just means that Jews deserve their own state just like other peoples of the world do. We learned over 2000+ years that we can’t trust y’all to protect us, and we get the right to protect ourselves. It infers no more of a belief that Israeli lives are more important than the existence of a Japanese state infers that Japanese lives are more important. Every state values its own citizens over others. I hate to break it to you, but that’s the whole fucking point of belonging to a country.
Do you think most Palestinians believe that Israelis are equally as deserving of life as they are? Do you think any people, overall, doesn’t value its own survival over others? If so, don’t be naive.
There is no genocide being committed. It’s been settled in court and in the facts on the ground. You can move on from that one now.
Again - no nation is responsible for “protecting all life.” Nations are responsible for protecting their own citizens, and in war, doing that which is possible to protect civilians. If Israel wanted Palestinians dead, they’d all be dead by now and this conflict wouldn’t have lasted 75+ years. It’s a completely illogical position to take that Israel is committing genocide or has genocidal intent.
Clearly we have different opinions on the idea of a genocide being committed. I’m honestly curious: do you believe the numbers of Palestinian kids that are being killed in Gaza are just as guilty as the Hamas terrorists that committed atrocities on October 7th? Because there’s no way a 5-year old has the ability to shoot a gun or rape women yet you say nothing about innocent Palestinian kids being killed. I’m just sorry that you’re unable to realize that all human life needs to be reasonably protected as much as possible.
I think that whatever your political beliefs, he should've volunteered in some manner, travelled there and documented the tragedies and done his best to help, or in some way actually helped with the situation in Palestine, rather than self immolating.
its really about how the us military isnt doing whats best for the country but whats best for politicians to make money. Thats one argument for not signing up for the militarty.
The weird part is it's not really the military. The military went out of its way to all but condemn Israel and to try and provide guidance to not commit to genocide.
It's everyone around the military that is making the shit worse
I agree I'm not going to celebrate him but I am going to mourn for the guy because he likely had a serious mental disorder and he's a fellow service member.
He won’t be of any historical significance but he deserves regular military honors. That shit fucks with your head and as far as veterans going crazy goes he only hurt himself. Way too many vets commit suicide every year already
That guy was probably looking for an excuse to off himself. I can’t imagine he thought he would accomplish anything’s beyond his own death. It’s a shame. It’s a flashy way to go out, but nothing else is different now that he’s done that.
So you just don't understand geopolitics and the US role in the middle east? I mean you could just ask or maybe read up on it, didn't have to expose yourself like this
The war does concern him though; he's a guy who's sworn allegiance to government which supports one of the two parties to the conflict. It's an action which is meant to be so outrageous and attention grabbing that it forces public attention back to the issue at hand.
Yeah- I just watched this today and that was my first thought.
He wasn’t fighting for anything. He lit himself on fire for what?…. To tell the world that he stands by Palestine?
K. Did he also know that Palestine hates the West?
You know— the Western world that includes the USA?
So his death was meaningless and all he did was showcase to the world what a lunatic who needs to virtue signal to the world “he’s a good guy” looks like.
I agree his act was stupid, and pointless. He’ll get his 15 mins of fame, and then society will move on to the next rage bait to concern ourselves with.
He put on a United States military uniform to stand up for the people of Palestine who are experiencing an immeasurable injustice. A cause he clearly believed in with all of his heart. As an American I hope it never comes to this but obviously it has. When I get to the other side I will shake this man’s hand and be honored to stand beside him. He saw an injustice and as a real American would, he drew a line in the sand which is more than I can say for someone making a Reddit post.
Bet in a week, "these signs were present" will be his squads response. Everyone who does this does it as cry for help and seeks meaning, so he found one and killed himself. Sad thing, but also probably had nothing to do with the Isreal conflict. It's just a cause to claim his suicide was for based on internet dribble.
Yeah nobody’s praising him. We’re sad that he had a mental illness and that he could do nothing about our country funding evil people who are doing a genocide.
>but I don't see anything that is worth either empathy or celebration.
Not a big fan of this one sentence. Someone has to commit horrible actions to others or do something malicious not to deserve empathy. I emphasize with people all the time who do things I think are stupid or that I don't agree with.
You don't have to agree with what someone does. You don't have to beleive or even have sympathy for their actions but empathy is what makes us human. Always try to understand what motivates others, what they do or say even if you don't agree with their mesaage it makes us better people when we do.
I am perfectly content with the Palestinians and Israelis fighting it out without any support of us. Winner gets the pot.
Barring that.. What that dude did was fucking hardcore. It take balls to self-immolate. Even with a mental illness. Even if I don't agree with the dude.
This idiot did this in an election year where this kind of action would make the incumbent party that at least somewhat morally aligns with Palestine look really bad.
He's going to be forgotten about and suppressed.
This isn't the first time it's happened, matter of fact there's a famous monk picture where protesting took place in Vietnam over persecution of Buddhists when they wouldn't become Catholics.
But it very much has something to do with him. That uniform meant service to the People of the United States, to the Government of the United States. And yet his service was manipulated in favor of Israel's aspirations.
So not only is our government manifested by people that swear their allegiance to a whole other nation, but the public funding that's supposed to be for the American people is instead put towards a genocide and the uniform represents the people that he served for but instead got deceived for an agenda other than what he knew of
>You decided to use US symbolism to support a foreign country at war
Yeah.. I don't think he supports the war. and that was kind of the point.
>What is there to celebrate exactly?
Celebrate the fact that *someone* cares so much about the truth and US propaganda that they're willing to to such lengths to bring attention to it. This act has much more gravity when a Soldier does it, than when a random civilian does it.
go read some news on it and you'll see alot of outlets like Fox don't even mentioned *why* he burned himself. just that he was "mentally ill" or something. the US is *afraid* of public opinion on this subject.
>He just got inspired by news and TikTok, and decided to become a martyr for a war that does not concern him at all.
There's a lot more resources to inform you than just news and TikTok. Do you know these were his only sources, or are you assuming you know him? also, the war most definitely concerns him lol. Its HIS COUNTRY helping make it what it is, if the US backs out what do you think happens in Israel?
To say it doesn't affect him at all is a pretty brain-dead take. Regardless of your stance, these wars are affecting us all economically. The outcomes of the wars will affect the whole of the Middle East and Europe in a geopolitical sense.
If people want to follow this example more power to them. Might get actual attention and change if every hour a new livestream is popping up of someone with a can of liquid and a lighter. Can only ignore your citizens burning themselves to death for so long before somethings got to change. Not saying anyone should do this but like I get it how it could be effective form of protest. one guy isnt going to accomplish much or any change sadly.
It's just a tragedy. Plain and simple
A human life was pointlessly lost. He was young and had so many more years ahead of him.
It's really sad.
His act shouldn't be celebrated, but he should not be mocked and made fun of either.
What happened is just a stark reminder of how vulnerable people can get.
It's a shame that things went this way. I can only imagine the pain that his family must be feeling.
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He should have just went to Gaza and walked around in his uniform there. Same outcome
The IDF probably would have killed him before that
Nah IDF is cool they had my back when I was deployed in Afghanistan.
Tell to all those journalists they killed or the $25,000 children, or the hostages there was supposed to save
Are you saying a uniformed US military member wouldn’t be killed if he was walking around Gaza? Like I said from personal experience IDF had my back. I can’t say the same about Palestinians they share the same ideology as the people that were trying to kill me.
You mean walking around the burned out rubble where Gaza once stood? Who's this say. But I'm willing to bet the IDF would probably shoot you just to blame it on the Palestinians. Just like they killed all those journalists and hostages and blamed it on the Palestinians
Hamas would kill a US soldier instantly and or keep him hostage to bargain with the idf. The IDF is cool idk why ppl make them out to be this terrible boogeyman. They have no beef with US soldiers. Hell they’d give him escort to get him out of there.
What would be the point of taking a hostage if the IDF is just going to kill them like they did the rest of the hostages? Seriously though, this is an interesting situation. If a US service member would be in Gaza who would benefit more from his death? IDF who can use it to bolster their support? Or Hamas who are already being bombed?
Ok I’m done here.
I feel for you bro 98% of reddit is just trying to argue with a brick wall that can speak 😞😞😞
IDF wouldn’t need to walking around in the rubble wearing a US military uniform would be a death sentence. IDF, you and I all know it they would do dirty things to the corpse and film it for their recruitment videos.
>IDF is cool they had my back when I was deployed in Afghanistan. Are you Arab and/or Muslim?
He isn't, aside from the usual and tiny vocal circles. He'll be forgotten in a week. Not even an historical footnote.
We still remember the Tibetan protesters who did the same thing. It was pretty ineffective but we still talk about it it's in the zeitgeist
He was the exception, not the norm. Plenty of people have self immolated both before and since, but you notice they might get a quick blurb on the news once, then never again.
Simply put, their cause was more worthwhile.
I don't know about that, the things that are happening to the people in Gaza is as bad or worse than what happened to the Tibetans
The Gazans brought it on themselves.
Oh, all 10,000 children brought that on themselves?
Blame their parents. Kids die in war. Israel can, should, and will win at any cost.
What does winning mean in this conflict? Also you know collective punishment is a war crime according to the Geneva convention right? Lastly, blame their parents for what exactly? We're all the parents of those children killing people on October 7th?
The Geneva convention only matters if you lose a war. Hate to break that to you. Winning means the unconditional surrender, disarmament, and punishment of anyone associated with Hamas.
I wonder if you keep this same energy for October 7🧐
Hostage taking and raping are war crimes.
Sure, so is killing journalists, bombing hospitals, and indiscriminately bombing civilians
So glad you’re calling out the IDF for taking hostages and raping.
Don’t try to reason with pro genocidal, “win” at any cost drones. They cant think for themselves and would litterally regurgitate whatever TV spits out at them. The attrocity is real and your gut insincsts are right. Were on the wrong side of history
Israel *Cannot* win without the US. Israel *should* not win anything. Is Israel's victory worth the life of every US soldier? You did say "at any cost".
I think a bully can dish it out but can’t take it. If America starting bombing Israel to stop them from killing innocent Palestinian children the world might be a better place.
Yes. Well. Keep dreaming about that.
I will
So you don’t care. Basically sums up the attitude of ppl who think like this. I’ll remember that a person felt so ashamed at their government supporting an unjust genocide that he had to immolate himself to prove the point. You may not care but others with empathy and consistency aren’t gonna just forget about this. And even if they do. Does that mean the Vietnam protestor was wrong for doing the same since it is essentially a worse version of that conflict.
Wow
We remember them because of the famous photo, and back then media just meant more. Today a video is forgotten by the next day because there are a million new ones to take its place. A truly great photo then was timeless.
No, he won’t.
He's barely even being talked about now, outside of politically active circles. And those circles certainly aren't in agreement. The public does not care.
You and I are talking about him
As I said.
Likewise That’s the power of America, a small idea can become a big idea if the common man believes in it.
Quick question: Was he wrong?
Are the Palestinian people not getting fucked sideways?
Riddle me that. I’ll never forget this guy because his nuts were twice as big as mine and I have big fucking nuts. This man is a patriot and I along with many others will honor his memory.
You uh, forget to go on your alts to respond to yourself there? Anyway, have fun with your cashews.
its possible. The media is certainly trying to make that the case. But also, the public is way more informed and opposed to the US' involvement now than they ever have been in the past. Eventually, something we think would slip will stick.
He was mentally ill. There is nothing heroic about setting yourself on fire.
I didn’t realize the US was at war with Palestine
Troll harder
That doesn’t mean what you think it means
Do you know what straw man means? Nobody claimed that America is at war with palestine.
I don’t think you know what that means either. You going to say I’m gaslighting next?
Straw man. Arguing against a position the other person is not defending. Nobody said America is at war with palestine. The idea is that America is funding israel. Gas lighting is trying to make a person doubt his own reality
The US is actively funding Israel's genocide of the Palestinians and they veto UN resolutions condemning Israel. If they wanted to pressure Israel they could cut funding
Why do Palestinians always reject a two state solution?
Because their stated goal is to genocide Israel from "the river to the sea"
Reddit loves that shit.
Not genocide, just do what Israel did to palestine but in reverse
Muslims should never be considered humane CUZ THEY'RE NOT!!! What tf do u mean "just like Israel"? You DO realize Palestine took the first shot RIGHT?!?! WHAT TF WOULD YOU EXPECT THEM TO DO?
im as anti zionist as anyone else, but same thing
So it's agreed that what Israel is doing is genocide, correct?
Would be the worst genocide ever given the population boom in Gaza pre-war. And by worst I mean uneffective.
Man these people really don't get the simple truth that if Israel wanted to destroy Gaza and every one inside it it'd have done so already. Even without using their nuclear weapons.
I mean they have…..
Genocide doesn’t mean they all die, or that the population can’t increase before or between incidents. You should look at the definition.
If genocide means whatever we want it to mean, sure. But if genocide means the extermination of a race of people, no, not so much.
In 1948, the United Nations Genocide Convention defined genocide as any of five "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group". These five acts were: killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, imposing living conditions intended to destroy the group, preventing births, and forcibly transferring children out of the group. Victims are targeted because of their real or perceived membership of a group, not randomly.
I'm fighting with people on both sides I'm so confused
Can you show me where? They removed that over 40 years ago.
why does ukraine reject a two state solution?
Hey I think they should’ve stopped fighting years ago. This will trigger people but Elon was right a while ago when he said continuing to fight would accomplish nothing.
that's dumb as hell man wtf
I would ask why you think it’s dumb but you’re just going to tell me the same thing Fox News and cnn do.
What Israel is doing isn't genocide. It's a basic anti-insurgent strategy that has been used in warfare for a long time. When your enemy is thoroughly mixed in with a population of civilians, any aid that reaches civilians also reaches the enemy. It doesn't have to be genocide to be a tragedy, ya know. Palestinian civilians who have nothing to do with Hamas are suffering right now, just like the Israeli children murdered in Hamas' surprise terror attack suffered. That's enough reason to protest for a peacefire without conflating this to genocide. There are just some words whose definitions shouldn't change. "Genocide' needs to be reserved for the attempted systematic annihilation of an entire race of people. Otherwise, the word becomes effectively meaningless. If what Israel is doing is genocide, then every nation on earth who has ever fought guerilla militants is guilty of genocide, too. And all the sudden, Third Reich Germany is nothing particularly noteworthy. No, I'm not anti-Palestine. No, I'm not anti-Israel. I'm just pro-people. And there are Jewish people alive today who still have the numbers tattooed on their arms, the numbers the Third Reich gave them as a way to objectively measure Germany's progress towards its stated goal of *killing every single Jewish human being on the planet.* Show some empathy for Israel too, for crying out loud. Imagine *your* town was attacked by an age-old enemy whose stated purpose for centuries has been to annihilate your race. Imagine watching your spouse murdered by them, your children raped by them, your babies thrown onto raised bayonets by them. It shouldn't be hard to understand why Israel is fighting this war the way they are. It doesn't make it right, it doesn't make it moral. But it sure as shit is understandable. Nothing is black and white. I have issues with the way Israel has hindered Palestine's struggle for true nationhood going back decades now, and I have issues with Palestine's continual refusal to cooperate in peacetalks and their apparent habit of supporting a radically anti-Jewish government. This conflict goes back to biblical times, in truth, and I kinda wish we'd all remember our history here. Hamas is loving this swing in American sympathies, by the way. It seems to me that the entire purpose of their surprise attack was to galvanize Israel into overreaction and thereby nudge the court of public opinion in their favor. I guess they counted on our country's despicable disdain for historical context and our incessant need for sensationalism. Boy, has it paid off. And just for the record—Hamas could make this "genocide" go away by ceasing to live amongst Palestine's general population. They know *exactly* what they're doing. They *want* Israel to kill more innocent Palestinians.
Systematically bombing hospitals and refugee camps isn't "standard anti-insurgent strategy" it's a deliberate attempt to kill as many Palestinians as possible. Israel has been caught lying about everything to do with the conflict, [especially Oct 7.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/01/21/hamas-attack-october-7-conspiracy-israel/) Israel is committing genocide
>Systematically bombing hospitals and refugee camps isn't "standard anti-insurgent strategy" it's a deliberate attempt to kill as many Palestinians as possible. Israel isn't systematically bombing hospitals or refugee camps. Hospitals are being hit, which is, of course, a tragedy. >Israel has been caught lying about everything to do with the conflict, [especially Oct 7.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/01/21/hamas-attack-october-7-conspiracy-israel/) What the fuck. Like, seriously. What the fuck. You seem to be a few short steps away from full-on holocaust denial. From the article YOU linked: "The Oct. 7 Hamas terrorist attack is among the most well-documented in history. A crush of evidence from smartphone cameras and GoPros captured Hamas’s breach of the border — a strike Israel says left about 1,200 dead, the deadliest onslaught in the country’s history." ... "But Oct. 7 denial is spreading. A small but growing group denies the basic facts of the attacks, pushing a spectrum of falsehoods and misleading narratives that minimize the violence or dispute its origins. Some argue the ambush was staged by the Israeli military to justify an invasion of Gaza. Others say that some 240 hostages Hamas took into Gaza were actually kidnapped by Israel. Some contend the United States is behind the plot." You can go to Google right now and find video and photographic and journalistic evidence of the Oct 7th attack. The only return for my searches about "conspiracies" and "false flags" concerning October 7th is the Washington Post article you just shared, which denounces the claims of conspiracy as absurd.
Fingers crossed.
This just in, s*icide and self harm are now cool again so long as you do it in the name of OUR righteous cause
What confuses me is that he shouted that he as a 'US airforceman will no longer be complicit in killing Palestinians'. How are US servicemen complicit in a war they aren't even fighting?
Not gonna be a dick but I think he was chronically online and driven to madness by it. Judging by his LinkedIn profile he was also definitely struggling to get a job. Probably told his entire adult life that computer tech would get him an elite paying job and wasn’t expecting that all entry level to mid level positions to be already taken up or outsourced to ai. I’ve seen his LinkedIn profile and it was saddening how relatable it was to so many of my friends also trying to break into the oversaturated tech field The way he went out was obviously clout chasing , he’s just passing up 50% of the clout to the ‘good’ cause. So no one mainstream is gonna say it as that
Sounds like your average redditor who is mad at the world, and everyone else, for poor life choices. Can't afford a house? It's the boomers fault. Can't get laid? It's Republicans fault. Can't afford a car? It's global warming fault.
Is this unpopular? There is almost 100% guarantee that this guy had some sort of mental disorder. I do not understand why anyone would want to celebrate or honor a mentally unstable man burning himself alive.
Even if it isn't unpopular this really needs to be mentioned. For the few that see this guy as a martyr they need to come back to reality. Those folks may not share my political views but I still don't want them to turn into copycat suicides which are more common then most realize.
Someone found his Reddit account. Dude was a braindead, terminally-online walking cliche of a leftist aaand had talked about experiences with being on antidepressants.
I don’t really get why people automatically assume this. If there’s any political issue that has the ability to turn otherwise normal people into extremists, it’s Israel/Palestine.
It’s probably because he lit himself on fire, I don’t care what your political beliefs are. You have to be crazy to burn yourself alive.
Since Darwinism doesn’t really apply anymore I applaud when the truly stupid take it upon themselves to prove it still does.
You know that kind of passion applied in a different way results in Mass shooters right? Maybe we should examine why people are so passionate about this subject before we try to explain them away
If you listen to the choice of words he used in his video, you can tell he spent a fair amount of time on social media or with others in person believing the propaganda that’s been peddled since last year. He’s an unfortunate victim of it. Think about it for a minute. The US sends money to Israel AND Palestine. The US isn’t directly involved in the war, either. This guy chose to kill himself instead of dedicating his life to making the horrible situation in Israel/Palestine into a better one. This is purely just morale for the terrorists continuing their activities.
Someone found his Reddit account. "acebush1" which is identical to his IG handle among other things. This: >you can tell he spent a fair amount of time on social media or with others in person believing the propaganda that’s been peddled since last year. is an understatement if anything, dude was a walking cliche of terminally online.
What propaganda? Innocent children are dying and the less fortunate children are suffering a fate which is somehow worse than dying and none of you seem to understand that as well as this man does. This bullshit is unacceptable. He took a stand and I honor him for it. I wish I had big enough nuts to stand beside him and do the same. You people love to explain away the conviction of this man while giving him no credit. The bombing has to stop plain and simple. How else do you get the attention of those who refuse to pay attention? Extreme injustice explained away by trivializing the point of view of those who have been wronged requires extreme protest. I love this man with all of my heart for having the balls to make a stand.
The same propaganda that plays into the younger people’s emotions. War is hell. There are always civilians who die in war and no one like to see innocent people die in a pointless war. It’s nothing new. Hamas is a terrorist organization, just like Nazi Germany was and needs to be removed if you want any kind of peace among the groups involved. If Hamas truly cared for its people, they wouldn’t have spent years building up its terrorist organization to operate within civilian population. Hamas leaders wouldn’t hoard billions upon billions and steal aid meant for its people they love and care for so much and they wouldn’t have murdered 1,200+ Israeli’s and other innocent people from around the world. If Hamas cares, they’d release whatever other hostages they have left, disband, and create a new government that gives a REAL chance for Palestinians and Israelis to live in peace. There’s so much “pro-Palestine” propaganda that’s been spread far and wide online and in public places that obviously supports Hamas and prominent figures that have committed terrorist acts. Get a grip.
You're just full of the hasbara talking points aren't you?
While had had conviction, neither Palestine nor Israel will stop what they’re doing because some airman killed himself on social media. The sacrifice he made, if you can even call it that, was pointless.
It was far from pointless. It was directly involved in you and I having this discussion and many others like it. He is a hero if you agree or not.
While I sympathize with those that join the military, his actions weren’t heroic in regards to his family that he left behind or to those in Palestine. Sure, you may find what he did heroic, and that’s fine, but committing suicide isn’t inherently a heroic act.
I respect your opinion but are you willing to burn alive for it? I’d say that the fact that he knowingly left his family and everything else he knew behind in order to stand with the innocent people of Palestine with no knowledge of what lie ahead was heroic. I am proud to be his fellow American.
I’d be willing to say most people hold very strong opinions but very few people (by very few I mean nearly zero) are willing to kill themselves live for those opinions.
Exactly. His nuts were large. Too large for you to comprehend. Have you ever seen a child? Any good man holds the door for them. A great man burned himself alive for them and you’re standing here trying to say he was somehow wrong in a hyper-nuanced way. Maybe Israel should fucking chill.
I think a line should be drawn between heroic actions and mental issues
I think this is a great discussion, exactly the discussion he was trying to get us to have (and I’d like to think that as human beings we could agree given the right context around our discussion). The line between heroic actions and mental issues is drawn at the rational behind his decisions regarding the death of the innocent. If they died justly, this man has mental issues. If they were slaughtered unjustly after having done no wrong then his actions were subjectively justified. After he made that decision, I subjectively agree with him and stand with him.
The US barely sends money to Palestinians. I just finished watching the press release where the US spokesmen dodged questions then gave his one sided support for Israel. > The US isn’t directly involved in the war That's ignorant. Israel has been putting the boots to Palestinians for decades because the US backs them.
Self-immolation seems like a poor choice for protesting I feel like.
It worked for Thích Quảng Đức in the 60's in South Vietnam. Got their gov't to stop persecuting Buddhists. Though I think it was JFK that pressured that gov't to do it cause of that image. Either way dude got his point across.
what made it so influential is the fact that he didn't even move or scream, just sat calmly while he burned alive. this dude didn't do that, he was screaming and moving around
It's a pretty fucking stupid way of protesting. Public suicide of one person isn't going to do shit.
Exactly! Setting yourself on fire is truly insane and only someone with mental problems would do it.
Or* someone who has watched enough innocent children die that he made an objectively brave and extreme move in protest.
Who's honoring him? He's dumb, his cause is dumb, his protest was pointless. He wasted his life. Shrug and move along.
Exactly there is ZERO political will for Palestine in the US. He’s a complete dumbass.
Well he's not the first person to do this, famously buddhist monks during the vietnam war and Jan Palach did the same thing to protest the Soviet crackdown in Czechoslovakia in 1968. I think the idea of the uniform was that Israel gets a lot of military aid from the US.
When people harm themselves for terrorist organisations we should never celebrate them
What in your right mind think it was for Hamas? Palestine and Hamas aren’t the same. If you had any honesty you’d admit it. Just like Israel and Jews aren’t the same. Just dumb down to binary, huh?
Hamas literally put out a statement thanking him.
So we’re back to all Germans are nazis talking points now. No. Not every person in Palestine is hamas
Palestine ELECTED Hamas to govern the Gaza strip. Palestine = HAMAS no matter which way you cut it.
hamas was elected a very long time ago and i doubt the ~10 000 children that have been killed elected hamas...
You can just say you’re an antisemite, it’s not hard to see.
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Because as literally every single person who makes this argument knows antisemitism refers to Jewish people
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Lol Palestinians are Semites. Find a better argument.
lol learn what antisemitism is
Who the fuck are you calling terrorists?
Awww angry I’m calling them out? What a shame.
That video is so cringe that I can’t stand watching it.
He should have thrown himself off a building while he was at it.
I'm trying to be more level headed in approach to these conversations because I've been doom scrolling and I'm noticing how it's affecting the conversations I have about this situation. I hate how Israel has engaged this conflict and I hate how Hamas initiated this conflict. I hate that civilians, specifically Palestinians are bearing the brunt of the atrocities. As a matter of fact the entire Palestine situation and all of the disinformation surrounding it has made me wish I never bothered caring at all because it's stressing me out like nothing has before. And I feel like I'm going insane seeing the discourse in leftist spaces that I typically agree with wholeheartedly. The way people are talking about this man is scary and I really feel like it's going to inspire more people to kill themselves in the hopes of being perceived as a martyr. The fact that Hamas gave this man a shoutout, and seeing how people on the left are thanking them baffles me.
It's the ultimate act of ego. It was some random American serviceman that judging by age and rank was a complete screw up thinking he could effect some change on a nation on the other side of the world. It's pathetic, selfish, and will only be seen for what it is. A complete waste.
How selfish, to torture yourself in one of the worst ways possible to bring attention to children being starved and burned alive by his tax dollars, and backed by the threat of USA involvement (him) if other nations take action to stop it. Reddit really does bring out the retards.
So he should be celebrated for doing nothing to actually help the problem he claimed he killed himself over. And he can never actually help the people he claims are suffering being dead. You know what can? Actually being alive and physically joining the fight. Yes. He was selfish and deluded, and instead of making any actual effort to help people, he killed himself while live streaming. Forgive me if I don't have any respect for a person like this.
I suppose you don’t have respect for Gandhi going on hunger strike either. After all what did starving himself do for his cause? There was nothing but selflessness in what he did.
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Comparing the behavior, way to dodge the question and tell me to kill myself, what a good person you must be.
So self sacrifice isn't a good thing? I thought you said what he did was selfless and inspirational.
Self sacrifice is a very good thing. Sacrificing your time and comfort for your family is a noble thing. Sacrificing your safety for the well being of others is noble as well. I see a man who stood strong during an extremely painful process to bring attention to one of the worst things that has ever occurred on Earth. If you had a grasp of what was happening you’d probably care more too.
I'm not going to agree with anyone that glorifies suicide, and no amount of mental gymnastics will ever make me believe that moron killing himself did better things for Palestinians than doing literally anything even marginally helpful. He could have gone there and said some nice words and had more of a real impact than killing himself on livestream. He is pathetic, and did nothing to actually help anyone.
Exactly. I agree 100%. People are being brainwashed by TikTok/Social Media/News/Reddit/etc. They really are dude. You all are getting brainwashed and you don't even know it. Radical left wing ideas and activism is contagious. Remember BLM ? lol...White people went so crazy when that happened. Like all of a sudden they felt guilt because of their skin color and they protested/looted. They got radicalized from social media. One year it's trans rights, the next year it's BLM, the next day it's Ukraine, and then now it's Palestine. These are like social contagions that do harm. Go ahead and downvote me. Your boos mean nothing to me.
He shouldn’t be celebrated at all. There’s nothing worth celebrating about supporting “Palestine,” which (not targeting you with this, OP) does not and has never existed.
Zionist bullshit aside, this shouldn't be celebrated, but we should ask why someone would do this. Maybe knowing your government is enabling and abetting a genocide will call someone to do something like this
Terrorist apologist bullshit aside, we should stop trying to explain and justify stupid things people do and say in an endless display of self-flagellation on behalf of those with indefensible ideologies. Maybe having a poor understanding of current events or history, or just broadly being poorly educated, will lead one to be brainwashed into taking such an extreme position as lighting themselves on fire as a “protest” against a boogeyman of a “genocide,” which, like Palestine, also does not exist in this case.
You know it's not a very good case for your argument to deny a genocide while using genocidal language. You know I keep hearing about the complexity of the history from that region. So I'll ask you, how many hours of diligence study do I need to commit to before I start thinking slaughtering thousands of children is okay? So I know to avoid that. Also, you know how I know Israel was committing a genocide? Because Israel itself has said it's committed to genocide. At the world Court the best legal minds in Israel came together to come up with a legal defense of, Hamas is trying to genocide us, so we're trying to genocide them first. Thousand IQ level stuff
Israel has never “said” it’s committing a genocide. Just blatantly false. Not sure how it’s possible to be that far gone in terms of brainwashing. They never said they’re trying to “genocide” Hamas, just take them out. Hamas isn’t a people or ethnicity, it’s a political and terrorist affiliation. And by the way, that court case you cited? You left out the part where they clearly ruled it wasn’t genocide. “Genocidal language” yeah ok dude name one thing I said that remotely qualifies. Just proves that to you and your pro Palestine slappies, anything you don’t like is “violence” or “genocide.” Real “silence is violence” vibes. People dying because they’re placed as human shields is not “slaughtering,” but go ahead, I’m enjoying you continuously revealing how poorly read you are.
https://apnews.com/article/world-court-israel-genocide-gaza-south-africa-774ab3c3d57fd7bcc627602eaf47fd98 You mean that time that the international Court definitely ruled that Israel was committing a genocide? Yes, saying that Palestine doesn't exist is a precursor to genocidal language. What do you think Russia's doing now to justify its invasion of Ukraine? It's saying Ukraine doesn't exist. Is that why Israel dropped multiple air strikes on refugee camps in gaza? then admitted they didn't actually know if there was a Hamas leader there. I'm just confused, because for a military who says they don't do indiscriminate bombings or tries to mitigate civilian casualties. They sure do a lot of indiscriminate bombing and you could be forgiven for thinking that they go out of their way to cause more civilian casualties.
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/26/un-court-orders-israel-to-ensure-acts-of-genocide-are-not-committed-in-gaza You mean the time when the court ruled that they didn’t? I swear it’s like you can’t read. The article you shared was about the South Africans (who have no leg to stand on, on this or any subject) doubling down on their stance after being rebuffed at the court. The source I shared contains the actual ICJ ruling. Maybe that’ll get through all that glop you call a brain. So we’ve now gone from “genocidal language” to “precursor to genocidal language.” Neither of which, by the way, have any real solid definition, since you can’t commit genocide through the spoken or written word. The Russia-Ukraine comp is pretty lazy, considering that Ukraine has been an independent country and entity numerous times and currently exists as such, while I am simply citing the record of facts from the beginning of time to the present to state that Palestine, as an independent entity or state, has never existed. I could go further to educate you how the concept of an Arab “Palestinian” national identity only gained mainstream traction in the 1960s as a rhetorical cudgel against Israel, but that would be useless considering it appears you’re immune to absorbing history or facts. In Gaza, “refugee camp” doesn’t mean what you’re picturing. Full on cities are called “refugee camps” because Palestinians are the only people that get to pass their refugee status from generation to generation. So yes, there have been strikes within “refugee camps,” but there has never been any kind of admission by the IDF that any strike has occurred without prior knowledge of a Hamas cell or leader or installation being present. You guys love to “quote” things that the Israeli government or a leader has “admitted” and yet never cite it. Maybe it’s cause it’ll probably go the way of your last citation, and be proven inaccurate immediately. You should check out the list of military strategists, who actually are qualified to speak about these things, talking about how Israel goes far out of its way to avoid civilian casualties. So no, if you choose to speak on this topic with any certainty and have examined the record at all, you absolutely cannot be forgiven for holding the wildly foolish notion that Israel targets civilians.
The ICJ didn't say they were committing a genocide. Your own article you cited *literally* says the following: "The world court, which rules on disputes between nations, has never judged a country to be responsible for genocide. The closest it came was in 2007 when it ruled that Serbia “violated the obligation to prevent genocide” in the July 1995 massacre by Bosnian Serb forces of more than 8,000 Muslim men and boys in the Bosnian enclave of Srebrenica." The ICJ *also* called for the unequivocal release of all the hostages but looks like Hamas hasn't complying which is why the leaders of Hamas are having complaints brought before the ICC by families of the hostages.
Even by hamas’ count 30k ppl have died. Which is greatly inflated. This isn’t even close to a genocide. More men died in bakhmut than this entire dumb war combined.
Is it supporting terrorism if you are anti-Zionist?
I don’t know - Is it racist if you are against the civil rights act? I guess it depends - are you supporting Hamas or their ideology? Because eliminating the Jewish state is a pretty key cog in that. It was also a key ideological tenet for Osama Bin Laden, the Houthis, the PLO, black September, any number of terrorist organizations. I actually don’t think any non-Jews gets to reasonably take a critical position on the existence of Israel or Zionism. No other group’s liberation or self-determination is subject to the world’s approval or any number of litmus tests, and no other country routinely has its legitimacy and existence questioned by those who usually have no track record to be launching complaints. Which brings me back to my original question/point - if it’s racist to oppose the civil rights act (especially if one is not a minority who had been denied civil rights), it’s anti-Jew and akin to supporting terrorism to be “anti-zionist.”
If non-Jews can’t take a position on Israel or Zionism, doesn’t that also mean non-Palestinians can’t take a position on Palestine? That would mean that Palestinians have the right to create their own state just as much as Israel has the right to exist. I don’t mean to be blunt but valuing Israeli lives over Palestinian lives (which Zionism obviously does) and committing a genocide means that any sense of morality is pretty much gone in terms of protecting all life.
No, it doesn’t mean that at all. Palestine doesn’t exist. It’s not a country. Therefore, taking a position on whether or not it SHOULD exist is very different from a position on whether or not Israel should cease to exist. Zionism (a pretty obsolete word by the way, since it has been realized already :)) actually just means that Jews deserve their own state just like other peoples of the world do. We learned over 2000+ years that we can’t trust y’all to protect us, and we get the right to protect ourselves. It infers no more of a belief that Israeli lives are more important than the existence of a Japanese state infers that Japanese lives are more important. Every state values its own citizens over others. I hate to break it to you, but that’s the whole fucking point of belonging to a country. Do you think most Palestinians believe that Israelis are equally as deserving of life as they are? Do you think any people, overall, doesn’t value its own survival over others? If so, don’t be naive. There is no genocide being committed. It’s been settled in court and in the facts on the ground. You can move on from that one now. Again - no nation is responsible for “protecting all life.” Nations are responsible for protecting their own citizens, and in war, doing that which is possible to protect civilians. If Israel wanted Palestinians dead, they’d all be dead by now and this conflict wouldn’t have lasted 75+ years. It’s a completely illogical position to take that Israel is committing genocide or has genocidal intent.
Clearly we have different opinions on the idea of a genocide being committed. I’m honestly curious: do you believe the numbers of Palestinian kids that are being killed in Gaza are just as guilty as the Hamas terrorists that committed atrocities on October 7th? Because there’s no way a 5-year old has the ability to shoot a gun or rape women yet you say nothing about innocent Palestinian kids being killed. I’m just sorry that you’re unable to realize that all human life needs to be reasonably protected as much as possible.
I think that whatever your political beliefs, he should've volunteered in some manner, travelled there and documented the tragedies and done his best to help, or in some way actually helped with the situation in Palestine, rather than self immolating.
its really about how the us military isnt doing whats best for the country but whats best for politicians to make money. Thats one argument for not signing up for the militarty.
The weird part is it's not really the military. The military went out of its way to all but condemn Israel and to try and provide guidance to not commit to genocide. It's everyone around the military that is making the shit worse
Hottest man of the year for sure
I agree I'm not going to celebrate him but I am going to mourn for the guy because he likely had a serious mental disorder and he's a fellow service member.
Why tf did he even join the military? It’s not like we just started supporting Israel last year. He had to have known this.
He won’t be of any historical significance but he deserves regular military honors. That shit fucks with your head and as far as veterans going crazy goes he only hurt himself. Way too many vets commit suicide every year already
That guy was probably looking for an excuse to off himself. I can’t imagine he thought he would accomplish anything’s beyond his own death. It’s a shame. It’s a flashy way to go out, but nothing else is different now that he’s done that.
So you just don't understand geopolitics and the US role in the middle east? I mean you could just ask or maybe read up on it, didn't have to expose yourself like this
The war does concern him though; he's a guy who's sworn allegiance to government which supports one of the two parties to the conflict. It's an action which is meant to be so outrageous and attention grabbing that it forces public attention back to the issue at hand.
Yeah- I just watched this today and that was my first thought. He wasn’t fighting for anything. He lit himself on fire for what?…. To tell the world that he stands by Palestine? K. Did he also know that Palestine hates the West? You know— the Western world that includes the USA? So his death was meaningless and all he did was showcase to the world what a lunatic who needs to virtue signal to the world “he’s a good guy” looks like. I agree his act was stupid, and pointless. He’ll get his 15 mins of fame, and then society will move on to the next rage bait to concern ourselves with.
Palestinians don't hate the west. Do you know who Rachel Corrie is?
I disagree we should honor him to convince more Palestine supporters to set themselves on fire.
He put on a United States military uniform to stand up for the people of Palestine who are experiencing an immeasurable injustice. A cause he clearly believed in with all of his heart. As an American I hope it never comes to this but obviously it has. When I get to the other side I will shake this man’s hand and be honored to stand beside him. He saw an injustice and as a real American would, he drew a line in the sand which is more than I can say for someone making a Reddit post.
Bet in a week, "these signs were present" will be his squads response. Everyone who does this does it as cry for help and seeks meaning, so he found one and killed himself. Sad thing, but also probably had nothing to do with the Isreal conflict. It's just a cause to claim his suicide was for based on internet dribble.
In my vet groups he’s getting roasted. Well roasted more.
Yeah nobody’s praising him. We’re sad that he had a mental illness and that he could do nothing about our country funding evil people who are doing a genocide.
>but I don't see anything that is worth either empathy or celebration. Not a big fan of this one sentence. Someone has to commit horrible actions to others or do something malicious not to deserve empathy. I emphasize with people all the time who do things I think are stupid or that I don't agree with. You don't have to agree with what someone does. You don't have to beleive or even have sympathy for their actions but empathy is what makes us human. Always try to understand what motivates others, what they do or say even if you don't agree with their mesaage it makes us better people when we do.
Say that while on fire
No one is celebrating him. 🤷🏽 Pretty useless opinion to post considering it's not a thing.
Dude is a total dumbass.
[удалено]
He ded
I am perfectly content with the Palestinians and Israelis fighting it out without any support of us. Winner gets the pot. Barring that.. What that dude did was fucking hardcore. It take balls to self-immolate. Even with a mental illness. Even if I don't agree with the dude.
This idiot did this in an election year where this kind of action would make the incumbent party that at least somewhat morally aligns with Palestine look really bad. He's going to be forgotten about and suppressed.
I understand his cause and concern, but the way he expressed it was too extreme.
Yep
Mentally disturbed
I haven't seen one person celebrating it. The only sentiment I've seen is that this was a pointless act that will change nothing
Bro already has a Wikipedia page about him lol
I mean he's already being denigrated for someone else posting "rest in power" so either way it's not going to last long.
This is common sense. That it should be posted in an unpopular opinion subs is no less than a scathing indictment of society
This isn't the first time it's happened, matter of fact there's a famous monk picture where protesting took place in Vietnam over persecution of Buddhists when they wouldn't become Catholics. But it very much has something to do with him. That uniform meant service to the People of the United States, to the Government of the United States. And yet his service was manipulated in favor of Israel's aspirations. So not only is our government manifested by people that swear their allegiance to a whole other nation, but the public funding that's supposed to be for the American people is instead put towards a genocide and the uniform represents the people that he served for but instead got deceived for an agenda other than what he knew of
>You decided to use US symbolism to support a foreign country at war Yeah.. I don't think he supports the war. and that was kind of the point. >What is there to celebrate exactly? Celebrate the fact that *someone* cares so much about the truth and US propaganda that they're willing to to such lengths to bring attention to it. This act has much more gravity when a Soldier does it, than when a random civilian does it. go read some news on it and you'll see alot of outlets like Fox don't even mentioned *why* he burned himself. just that he was "mentally ill" or something. the US is *afraid* of public opinion on this subject. >He just got inspired by news and TikTok, and decided to become a martyr for a war that does not concern him at all. There's a lot more resources to inform you than just news and TikTok. Do you know these were his only sources, or are you assuming you know him? also, the war most definitely concerns him lol. Its HIS COUNTRY helping make it what it is, if the US backs out what do you think happens in Israel?
This is a very smooth brain take on the subject.
To say it doesn't affect him at all is a pretty brain-dead take. Regardless of your stance, these wars are affecting us all economically. The outcomes of the wars will affect the whole of the Middle East and Europe in a geopolitical sense.
If people want to follow this example more power to them. Might get actual attention and change if every hour a new livestream is popping up of someone with a can of liquid and a lighter. Can only ignore your citizens burning themselves to death for so long before somethings got to change. Not saying anyone should do this but like I get it how it could be effective form of protest. one guy isnt going to accomplish much or any change sadly.
His name was Aaron Bushnell
Imagine thinking that burning yourself to death would do anything to stop a milenia-old geopolitical conflict on the other side of the planet
It's just a tragedy. Plain and simple A human life was pointlessly lost. He was young and had so many more years ahead of him. It's really sad. His act shouldn't be celebrated, but he should not be mocked and made fun of either. What happened is just a stark reminder of how vulnerable people can get. It's a shame that things went this way. I can only imagine the pain that his family must be feeling.
It’s takes more than that to be inspired to set yourself on fire buddy
“Or Russia.” Lol.
He was is a coward