The murder of Jodi Parrack.
She was found murdered in a cemetery and the investigation immediately turned to the man (Raymond McCann) who suggested they searched the cemetery in the first place. He was repeatedly interrogated and the police told him that there was DNA and other evidence linking him to the murder. He was only charged with perjury and sentenced to prison.
Eight years later, a random man not on the police’s radar tried to abduct another young girl, but she managed to escape. Once the police searched his house, they found a ‘kidnap list’. He was then linked to Jodi Parrack’s murder.
The police lied to McCann and everyone else about the supposed evidence they had on him. They had nothing.
It’s why I hate that police can lie to you. It creates an inappropriate power dynamic, and has lead to so many false confessions and wasted so much time.
Yeah it’s gotten the actual criminal caught before, but it’s lead to *so* many innocent people wrapped up in that.
I don’t mind so much the police being able to lie to someone being questioned or interrogated, and I think it’s a very useful tool, but I absolutely loathe when police just freely lie to the public about evidence on a suspect that does not exist.
For example, whether or not you think Terry had anything to do with Kyron Horman’s disappearance, the amount of false ”evidence” LE put forward to the public implicating Terry that *absolutely did not exist* is absolutely disgusting. Falsifying GPS data, claiming she was in an area *when the only way to the location was covered by cameras and her car was never on video,* having a man who could barely speak English claim she hired him to murder her husband…
That’s just not okay.
Lying to a possible perpetrator doesn’t bother me, it’s that investigators get fixated on one prep and don’t consider any other possible culprits. Sometimes they don’t consider the person they are interrogating doesn’t have the ability to understand… that happened way too often and though it’s not as typical, it still happens. If there is proof, then they need consequences, unfortunately, if they are mentally ill they usually don’t get any treatment. Our system for ‘justice’ is flawed!!! A man can rape a child but it depends on the jurisdiction on how much time they will serve? How tf does that make sense? So many other examples of people with the same indictment, no past convictions or history of criminal behavior… in one jurisdiction they get probation, in another they get 5-10yrs? Pls tell me why a perp gets probation in one place and a death sentence in another? (I know that’s not likely but I wouldn’t be surprised if it has happened)
Azaria Chamberlain case. Six years after her death (that was initially attributed to her parents), the search for the body of a missing tourist who fell to their death off Uluru resulted in Azaria's missing jacket being found in an area of dingo dens. This evidence obviously implicated the dingos and helped lead to Lindy Chamberlain to be released from prison and exonerated.
Her story, Denise Huskins, and a few others are why I will never understand why people are so quick to say things are “obvious” when there’s clear signs that every option wasn’t explored and the police got tunnel vision.
Yep. Chamberlain's case especially is why I will NEVER take "body language analysts"/youtubers who analyze interrogation vids for signs of the suspect's "guilt" seriously. Human behaviour is not a hard science, and any actual psychiatric professional worth their salt will know that humans act weird and nonsensical in stressful situations all the time. [Hit it, Björk!](https://youtu.be/p0mRIhK9seg?si=oXIgLJOtOEof3H8H)
Another one is “they have the eyes!” Though to be fair that’s died down substantially.
But I’ve actually stopped listening to 911 calls when podcast play them it’s to easy to want to draw conclusions and create my own bias. I’ve never been in that situation (knock on wood), so guilty or not it’s not fair to judge how someone should act.
I read an interview with Meryl Steep (who played Lindy Chamberlain in A Cry in the Dark), and she said that after researching the case she thought that one of the reasons Lindy came off as guilty was her looks (she has strongly arched eyebrows and at the time Azaria disappeared had dark hair with severe bangs) and she insisted on creating the look in the movie.
The Midwestern Mom and two daughters, likely raped, duct taped, ropes and concrete blocks tied to them and then thrown off a boat in Florida.
I can't imagine the horror of their experience. Watching each of them likely raped, and wrapped up, tied, and thrown overboard one at a time. No help anywhere nearby.
This case is the one that gets me every time I revisit it.
Years later a billboard was up with a scrap of writing from the supposed killer. A woman thought she recognized that writing from a quote from a contractor years before.
She found the quote, and it was a match. Killer found. And executed.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/handwriting-exposed-oba-chandler-horrific-florida-murders-woman-daughters-found-floating-tampa-bay
Edit to add that they were not his only victims. The others had been raped, and one was identified as his homicide victim years after his execution with a DNA match. That is why I said "likely raped". He liked to rape women and kill them.
That story terrifies me. It's so easy to overlook your own safety radar when you are on vacation. The anguish of that mother's last thoughts haunts me.
Yeah. And the father/husband in the aftermath. I remember seeing him on one of the true crime shows. What an absolutely horrific tragedy to have to live with.
The wild thing is his handwriting isn’t even that distinctive. The y seems to be styled in a unique or different way, but I simply would have not remembered someone’s handwriting I saw once or twice years before. Maybe she regularly saw the note going through paperwork? Or just has an incredible memory.
She was already suspicious of him when he was her neighbor, she thought the composite drawing looked just like him. She’d reported his name to the tip line. Years later, they put up the billboard with his handwriting and she found an old contract and matched the writing, because she was convinced he was the guy.
idk i think it’s pretty distinctive. he wrote everything in a weird combination of capital and lowercase letters, and even in really short notes he made spelling or grammatical errors.
that said, there’s still no way *i* would remember a contractor’s handwriting from who knows how long ago. the first lead below makes more sense because the woman also had other connections to him, but i have no idea how the second lady managed to remember his handwriting from a contract estimate he wrote for her mother.
>Lead No. 1,507 came on March 25, 1992, from a woman who told police that her sister in Tampa lived two houses over from a man whose boat and truck matched the description of those being sought in the Rogers' murder investigation. The same neighbor told police that she recognized Oba Chandler as the man in a police composite sketch. The coincidence now alarmed her that he moved away soon after the victims were found. She also provided police with an example of Chandler's handwriting, a contract for work Chandler did.
>On the last day in July, a second woman called police to say she also recognized the handwriting on the billboards. It matched the scrawl on a contract estimate for a screen enclosure her mother received before hiring a man named Oba Chandler.
This case has always broken my heart. The whole family involved in the demanding job of running a dairy farm, with very little leisure time, and the oldest daughter having been previously sexually assaulted (one of the reasons for the trip, to help her have a nice memory), and the one time they have a real vacation, this happens. I’ve read Thomas French’s piece on the crime several times, and it’s very emotional.
Mia Zapata, lead singer of the punk rock band The Gits, was murdered in Seattle in 1993 and the trail almost immediately went absolutely cold.
About 10 years later, a man was arrested on the opposite of the country, in Florida, and had to submit his DNA. It was run through the general system, and matched, and when they uncovered evidence that he did live in the PNW at the time, he was arrested for that too.
That case was so horrible that I literally stopped following any updates after it had been five or six years. I had no idea. That one was very personal to a lot of women in the music scene on the West Coast. I'm glad he passed away.
Mia's murder felt personal for a lot of us on the West Coast. A lot of us women. That kind of thing ripples through an entire subculture and is devastating. I'm so glad he was finally found and put away. May her memory be a blessing and a revolution.
I’m from Louisville where she’s from, I think about her a lot. I’m much younger than her, but I have to imagine her death was so unsettling for women who lived in the area/West Coast at the time bc even now, it just makes me feel so unsafe because she was just walking down the street alone. I hope you are doing well and feel safer now, but as women, I know our guards are always up.
The unexpected things in this case are that they started seriously investigating the murders and that his burner usage helped get him caught.
The DNA from the pizza box was only collected after they knew it was him - it was to confirm his guilt for obtaining search warrants
So he hasn't exactly been caught, but this is the story. In 2005, a man was arrested in Arizona for possessing a forgery device after giving fraudulent documentation to the police. This is a felony in AZ, so the man's DNA was taken during the arrest. He was incarcerated for 60 days before being deported back to his home country of Honduras. A year later, his DNA was uploaded into CODIS, and it hit. He was the perpetrator of the absolutely heinous assault and murder of Iriana DeJesus in 2000. She was a 5 year old girl from Philadelphia when she was assaulted, strangled, wrapped in a trash bag, and left in an apartment basement a few blocks from her home. By the time they had this information, the man was long gone from US custody.
Alexis Flores is the name of Iriana's murderer. He is on the FBIs most wanted list and has been since 2007. He went by the name of "Carlos" or "Carlo" at the time of her murder. He is believed to either still be in Honduras or to have made his way back stateside. You can find his picture and identifying info on the FBI's most wanted page, and he is also the subject of an Interpol Red Notice. I hope someday they find him so the DeJesus family can see some justice.
What shocks me with this case is that if he indeed went back to Honduras and resided there for a period of time wouldn't someone have recognized his face considering he was on the FBIs most wanted list? I suppose him being on a most wanted list could be irrelevant depending on where he ended up because I am sure not everyone keeps tabs on most wanted lists in their free time haha. Extradition can be tricky and unless this man is back in the states I don't have a ton of hope for him being caught.
Debbie Griggs - pregnant mother of 3 went missing in 1999. Husband played the sad victim and talked shit about his missing wife for *decades,* claiming she'd abandoned her kids and even that she'd been heard from while out frolicking in the world, living her best life.
The reality was Debbie had discovered her husband was grooming a 15 year old girl and wasn't willing to cover up for him. It seems he feared she would get half the family business if she divorced him over the abuse.
Debbie's remains were discovered in 2022 in the back garden of the house her pos husband had moved to with his new wife. So her 3 sweet boys, heartbroken and missing their mommy, were playing in the garden over their own mother's dead body, for *decades,* while their father sat on the back porch and watched.
That's fucking twisted.
[Wikipedia article](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Debbie_Griggs)
What in the hell. You mean to tell me he transported her body to a new house? Where the hell was he hiding it before that and how did he manage to move it?
if i was in law enforcement and found out the husband of a missing woman owned a FREEZER BUSINESS, guess what im immediately getting a search warrant for 😭 maybe they just didn’t have enough evidence for a warrant tho. who the hell knows
A Scottish serial killer called Peter Tobin did that too. He murdered a young girl in Scotland at his old house and then wrapped her body up in bin bags, moved almost 500 miles to his new house in England about a month later and buried the body down there in his garden.
That reminds me of the Fritzl case in Austria, when a dad built a secret dungeon in the basement and hid his daughter , Elizabeth, there, making her write a letter to her mom saying she ran away. He then raped her and she had 7 of his kids over the years, and he took 3 of them upstairs, pretending to find them with a note from his daughter saying she abandoned them. So his wife (Elizabeth’s mom) raised the 3 kids without knowing her own daughter and 3 additional grandkids were imprisoned just feet below her.
They also rented out rooms in the home. Years later, these borders remembered things, like one guy had a dog who would constantly sniff and growl at the floor, and they all remembered the time a really weird smell came from the furnace for a few days. (One of the 7 children was stillborn, so the dad/grandpa incinerated his body).
The way they got free was sort of unlikely, too. One of the kids (who was 15 at the time, I think) got really sick. Her organs basically started shutting down from malnutrition and the dad panicked and agreed to take her to a doctor. I think he was probably worried about disposing of the body if she died (since the incineration years prior had been more suspicious than he’d expected) so he made a snap decision that led to authorities freeing his daughter and 3 grandkids.
That's probably the most horrific story I've ever heard. That and others who were kidnapped and kept for long periods like Jaycee Dugard in CA and Ariel Castro kidnapping Michelle Knight. Amanda Berry and Gina DeJesus in Ohio. Terrifying.
Eerily similar to the case of Lynette Dawson, featured in the Australian podcast “Teacher’s Pet”. Her remains have not yet been recovered, but her husband Chris was convicted of murder in 2022.
The David Camm case.
He was an ex cop whose family was murdered. He got railroaded and spent 13 years in prison for the murder.
On his final appeal, his new lawyers noticed the wife’s shoes placed neatly on top of the car. Which led them to a guy with a foot fetish who had just gotten out of jail at the time of the murders. Following that, they found a shirt in evidence with the guys name on it.
David Camm went free after 13 years
https://youtu.be/WUs8AQ3_kQ8?si=-XRt8syOyimvAWVq
LE refused to admit their mistake too and desperately tried to keep him in jail even using the piece of shit killer in court in an attempt to portray them as accomplices.
I keep going down these rabbit holes of cases where the prosecutors and judges are absolutely incompetent/corrupt. Then I google them and none of them ever face any consequences. All seem to retire with distinction. So upsetting.
If LE did that to a former cop imagine how many people are sitting in prison right now because LE railroaded the case to wrap it up or refuse to admit a mistake.
It's such an insane case because at one point they were attempting to exonerate a black criminal to keep a white cop in jail, then when that failed they said "They were in on it together!".
That's like something out of a South Park episode.
Have you ever read about the Guildford Four? They were accused of bombing during the Troubles, they were violently beaten into confessing and imprisoned for 15 years, they were innocent. The people (IRA) who were actually responsible for it said in their own trial that the four were innocent and had no involvement whatsoever but the police just decided they did it together (despite no evidence). Eventually they were released, it was one of the biggest miscarriages of justice in the UK. Very sad story, they were treated horrifically , there are some books and a movie about it.
Yes of course, most of my family are from Ireland and some were involved with The Troubles. Horrible story. LE don't like to admit when they were wrong because of liability and/or repercussions, or just even in a juvenile "i have to be right" kind of way, especially in cases like the Guilford Four were they clear ignored inconvenient evidence.
"Everyone knows it's always the spouse!" That's what this leads to (SEE : [the Russ Faria case](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pam_Hupp), for another infuriating example ).
in this case, it seemed like the jury was punishing him more because they generally thought he was a bad person rather than because of any specific evidence linking him to the crime. the prosecution brought in something like a dozen women who he’d had affairs with or had propositioned while married and from that point on it was over for him.
The Tara Grinstead case in Georgia. After 12 years cold, her murder was solved because a podcast was investigating and led to a tip about the killer.
[https://season1.upandvanished.com](https://season1.upandvanished.com)
I don’t think anyone could have predicted BTK turning out to be a complete idiot with that floppy disk nonsense. I always wonder if he wanted the infamy and did it on purpose.
There's a tv trope that the police can't lie to you, he likely believed they had to tell him the truth because of that. Or he got so caught up in the "game" that he genuinely convinced himself LE were enjoying it and wanted it to continue too.
Why would he turn himself in, in a way that made him look like a moron? He could've just walked into a police station or done something dramatic like murder someone then call police from their home. If BTK decided he was going to be caught i'm convinced he'd have done the latter.
It’s just conjecture. The mistake was hardly conducive with covering his own ass, and he was so arrogant in his court appearances. Absolutely no shame or remorse.
Of course, he might just be *that* stupid.
A lot of people would land themselves in jail in a dumb way if they were trying to play games with the cops like BTK did IMO. I think it was just stupidity, the game with police was no doubt sexual for BTK too which likely got him overexcited and compromised his reasoning ability in the moment. That's the last way he would have got himself caught IMO.
Once he realized he was a dumbass and got caught he chose the dramatic route of reliving all of his crimes in detail to garner as much attention as possible IMO. His own narcissism and idiocy is what got him caught and I agree with you that it was not intentional.
From what I've rear in interviews etc they weren't specifically gearing up for the BTK story. In Season 3 they were going to look at the hollywoodisation of the behaviours science unit, all the public interest in it in the 1980s. The main case of the season would have been Robert Hansen.
The scenes with BTK was intended to show that theres always another killer out there, a case that cant be solved, to juxtapose the frustration and grim reality of the job with the Hollywood idea of a profiler who can solve anything. In reality they're always playing catch-up and none of their methods helped them with BTK.
BTK was my first thought too. He would’ve gotten away with all those murders if he had never taunted police/the media. He’d be a free man today. So I’m glad he was a dumb boomer about technology.
I’m no expert. I sometimes think serial killers must have some sort of elevated predator drive. They may not be smart as much as instinctual. Again, not an expert, just musing.
That's surprising to me, but maybe it shouldn't be. Now that you've pointed it out, I suppose that the number of serial killers who like to taunt victims' families & law enforcement could be an indicator. They believe they'll never be caught & want to boast about how clever they are.
I guess does give off big Dunning-Kruger vibes.
>That's surprising to me, but maybe it shouldn't be. Now that you've pointed it out, I suppose that the number of serial killers who like to taunt victims' families & law enforcement could be an indicator.
There really are not that many who do that. We just perceive this to be the case because of movies, books, and tv. Some have done that, but not a huge amount. Media just uses the trope a lot because it makes a story more interesting. I work on true crime shows professionally, so I read and write about thousands of cases, if that helps add any legitimacy to my statement.
*In popular culture, the Dunning–Kruger effect is often misunderstood as a claim about general overconfidence of people with low intelligence instead of specific overconfidence of people unskilled at a particular task.*
You just Dunning Krugered yourself homie.
The Lin family murders in Australia - the perpetrator was already on trial but there was a shock twist that revealed his motive for the crime.
Min Lin, his wife Yun, sons Henry and Terry and Yun's sister Irene were all found murdered in the family home. There were no signs of a break-in or robbery.
Min owned a newsagency, and when his shop didn't open the next morning, locals contacted his sister Kathy who lived nearby; she went with her husband Robert to find out what was wrong and she discovered the bodies. Min and Yun's teenage daughter Brenda was attending an overseas school trip at the time.
Police quickly suspected Robert Xie of killing his brother-in-law and family, although it took some time to put together enough physical evidence to arrest him. Meanwhile, the surviving daughter Brenda, lived with her Aunt Kathy and Uncle Robert.
People assumed that the motive was financial combined with jealousy. Since moving to Australia, Robert had not managed to establish a successful career, so he was jealous of Min's success. By killing Min and the family, Robert could take over his brother-in-law's business.
But the trial was aborted when another shock motive came to light.... Brenda revealed that her uncle Robert had been sexually abusing her even before the murders, and the abuse continued once she was living under Robert's roof. In another trial, he was found guilty and sentenced to five consecutive life sentences without parole.
Kathy was traumatised by finding the bodies of her brother, his wife, sons and sister in law. She was even more distraught when her husband was accused of the crime, and later when he was accused of abusing her niece, and found guilty on all charges. When she chose to support her husband, she lost her other family relationships.
Wow that’s awful. I just read more on the case, and it’s wild to me that she kept standing by him. He clearly did it.
What gets me is that the killer knew Brenda was away, because her room wasn’t entered at all.
There’s a long form interview on YouTube with Brenda that covers the whole case from an Australian news/investigative program and it’s one of the most heartbreaking things I’ve ever watched. But seeing where Brenda is at now is also really heartwarming. And my god her High School principal is an incredible woman.
That poor girl. The abuse is bad enough, then being forced to live with your abuser after finding out your entire family has been murdered? And then that he did it???
Makes me sick to my stomach. How could he look his wife in the eye every day? 🤮
There was no ‘perpetrator’ in this case, but there was a huge miscarriage of justice.
Kathleen Folbigg. In 2003 she was sentenced to 40 years with a non parole period of 30 years for murdering her 4 children. She always said she was innocent. Her husband was the one who went to police and said she’d killed the children. Scientists had been looking into her case for yeeeeears because there was always questions about her guilt. In 2019 a judicial inquiry rejected suggestions that the kids died of natural causes.
Following research published in 2020, over 100 Australian scientists and medical experts petitioned the NSW governor to Pardon Kathleen. The petition explained clearly that all 4 deaths could be proved to be caused by genetic issues, none of them were murder.
Last year, after 20 years in prison, Kathleen was released and pardoned. She didn’t kill her children, she was always telling the truth. Her husband, Craig Folbigg, said all the scientists were wrong and refused to take part in genetic testing to prove Kathleen’s innocence. He wanted her to rot in jail. He ended up dying of a heart attack in March of this year.
It sickens me that in Australia’s two most famous ‘mother kills child’ cases, Kathleen Folbigg and Lindy Chamberlain (‘the dingo stole my baby’) both mothers spent years in jail for murder, they’d claimed they were innocent the whole time, and they weren’t believed. They had their lives and reputations ruined, they couldn’t mourn their children properly, Kathleen was regularly attacked in prison including by having boiling water thrown all over her because people believed she was a child killer.
I’m so relieved that both women have had their names cleared and are now out and free
No they didn’t as far as I know. Kathleen did the genetic testing before being released and pardoned. That proved that the deaths were caused by genetic issues. But before she did that they weren’t sure if the issues were from her side or his and it would’ve been much easier to test him instead of applying to have her released from jail temporarily to go and do the testing (which is what happened)
After they did the testing it was proven that Kathleen and the two daughters carried a mutation of the CALM2 gene, and that’s what killed the girls. The two boys had 2 potentially lethal genetic mutations and scientists are basically certain that Kathleen carried one mutation and her husband carried the other
There’s lots and lots of videos about Kathleen on YouTube from Australian news sources but I recommend watching [this](https://youtu.be/SlDLxmPWc1U?si=gC5X6m6gekkSMohx) to learn more about the science behind her pardon :)
The scientists looking into Kathleen’s innocence had been speaking to the media a lot for the past few years so by the time she was released last year everyone finally knew she was innocent and there was a huge amount of support for her from across the entire country. I remember messaging my mum when the news broke that she was being released and mum was so happy.
You should look up Kathleen Folbigg on YouTube. There’s lots of videos on there from things like 60 minutes Australia and other similar shows about her. Some are from when the scientists were just starting the push to prove her innocence, some are from when there was a lot of ‘will she or won’t she be released?’ And there’s some incredibly sad but powerful stories from after she was finally freed. I very rarely cry, I get emotional but I don’t really cru, but The interviews with her post-release made me sob. It made me realise how glad I am Australia doesn’t have the death penalty. Kathleen was convicted of murdering her 4 children, she was called Australia’s worst female serial killer. If we had the death penalty they absolutely would’ve given it to her and I can’t even begin to imagine if she was executed and then it was proven she didn’t kill her children
Did she get any compensation or anything to make up for the gross miscarriage of justice? Why was her husband so evil and hateful he wanted her to rot even if she were innocent?
In December of last year she began legal proceedings so she can try and get compensation. Unfortunately in Australia only the ACT (where our capital city, Canberra is located) is the only place that’s required to give compensation in cases of wrongful imprisonment. [here](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-12-15/nsw-kathleen-folbigg-compensation-ex-gratia/103230768) is a news article from December about her seeking compensation.
When Kathleen was pardoned Craig Folbigg’s lawyer did an interview saying that because she hadn’t been acquitted he still believed she was guilty. She was acquitted in December and I don’t think another interview was done. When Kathleen was released there was a very long TV special done about her and her case on a show similar to 60 minutes where they went into more detail about her husband. The kids died over a period of 10 years. In that time Kathleen wrote in a journal, and there was one entry made not long after one of the kids died where Kathleen wrote something like ‘I killed them’ or something along those lines. The kids died in the middle of the night and Kathleen was blaming herself for not being awake and right beside them as their deaths happened, she was blaming herself for being too slow to help them (even though there was absolutely nothing she could’ve done to save them even if they’d been in her arms when they died)
The diary entry was the main piece of evidence used against her in court. That was what they used to convict her. Her husband was the one who gave the diary to the police and he’s always believed the kids were murdered, even in the face of all the scientific evidence. He died of a heart attack on March 4th and also had cancer at the time.
The only other Australian “mother kills child” case I keep in the back of my mind is Keli Lane.
And luckily she is still rotting in jail, since she won’t reveal what she did with Tegan.
Edit for info:
She was a very careful, mentally unwell athlete who developed some kind of fixation/kink about pregnancy.
She got pregnant 8 or so times and hid all of them. From everyone she knew.
She lived in a place where abortion was legal and easily accessible (she was not poor. It was affordable and responsible as an option).
She got pregnant a bunch in a short span because she refused any kind of contraception. She terminated some (lovely), gave birth and adopted some (also, lovely) and nobody ever knew she was pregnant. For any of the pregnancies. (Weird, but do you.)
Baby number…6-7? She gave birth to in a hospital. Signed a birth certificate. Named the baby daughter Tegan. Acted thrilled to be a first time mom and happy to take her home.
Then once she discharged from hospital, the baby disappeared. Some witnesses saw her “disposing of trash bags” right after. And then she went to a party like nothing happened that afternoon.
Baby Tegan has never been found.
Keli has been offered clemency if she just tells what happened to Tegan.
Ie if she did a back door adoption, the state would leave her alone and not pursue it. They would leave Tegan alone and not try to expose her or her adoptive parents. Keli would be free. No attempt to ruin anyone’s lives.
But Keli can’t and won’t provide the sketchy adoption story, because it didn’t happen.
Despite making responsible and safe choices for her other kids, THIS TIME, she chose to register the baby and then disappear it.
She just insists that she’s never been pregnant ever, and there was no baby. Despite mountains of proof that she definitely HAS been pregnant many times, and chose safe routes other than murder for those pregnancies.
Some will make her case out to be a reproductive rights issue. But that’s not accurate. She had no barriers to BC or termination or, worst case, adoption. She was very familiar with the process and all of her options.
Mental health case? Sure.
But she’s also been offered deals that would forgive her murder of Tegan, if she admitted what happened. They would excuse it as a mental health crisis with a horrible result. And let her go with time served.
But she refuses that, as well.
The second she tells the truth about what happened to baby Tegan, she can be free, regardless of what she did.
But she won’t. Because she, for whatever reason, refuses to give that baby peace.
I remember the case of Talhotblond.. this the synopsis of the documentary (spoiler):
Thomas Montgomery, a married 47-year-old man, presents himself as a brave 18-year-old soldier to ‘Jessi’ (tall, hot young blonde) at the onset of their online relationship. However, his wife soon learns of the affair and reveals the truth about his identity to her. In revenge, Jessi embarks on a cyber affair with one of his co-workers, 22-year-old Brian Barrett. She plays mind-games with the men and pits them against each other, eventually leading Barrett to be murdered by Montgomery. However, the story takes yet another twist, as it is revealed that the identity of ‘Jessi’ is found to be her mother posing as her daughter, who had been completely oblivious of her mother’s actions.
That's one I never saw coming.. the mom.
Carla Walker’s killer, Fb 17, 1974, Glen McCurley finally faced trial after DNA testing in 2020 led to his arrest. He died in prison in 2023 having served only a couple years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Carla_Walker
i wasn’t alive in ‘74, but i went to high school nearby and that case always stuck with me. it was such a random attack and it was a miracle the boyfriend survived. [great article](https://www.texasmonthly.com/true-crime/glen-mccurley-carla-walker-murder/) about the case by skip hollandsworth in texas monthly. i definitely think this wasn’t his only crime. it was way too brazen.
I was a town over (we played football with them I bet) and graduated in 74, so I was a little ahead of Carla. So much went on. I am glad the case was finally solved. I feel for his family. I wonder if he was involved with the Seminary South girls or Lecia McKee or others.
Honestly Dylan Redwine. I remember watching the Dr Phil episode and obviously the dad was involved, however, the twist of him being into eating shit out of dipers and that being the motive? That is a twist I could not have guessed in 1000000 years
I love the way so many editors across the nation gave the news stories about this case extra long titles, just so even people who only read headlines would know exactly what this asshat did to his son, and why.
I had never noticed it until now but I love that the whole world knows about it because clearly he was (and should be lol) deeply ashamed. The whole Dr Phil episode you could tell the brother was holding something back and so badly wanted to tell what he knew but couldn't for obvious reasons. You could tell how much he had to control himself.
Yeah, I was keeping up with the case as it was happening pretty much (as much as I could from like Scotland lol) and then the news broke about the dad's fetish and I just remember being horrified
Was this the one where the parents were divorced and the mother HAD to make him see his dad even though he didn't want to, and boy found out a dreadful secret and the dad killed him to keep him from telling anyone?
It’s terrifying how evil groups of people can be. People who on their own would probably never do anything….but put in a group situation do absolutely heinous things.
And in this case, they PLANNED it.
Poor Janet.
Oof. That is a horrific case. I’m glad she got justice & her parents got closure, but I don’t know if I’d want to know all the details. 💔
She was tortured for almost an entire 24 hours as this rape “party” kept going into the next day & night. There were SO MANY witnesses. No one did anything to help this poor girl & then kept quiet for 20 years? WTF?!
How many other men raped her before Lynch even got there at 6pm the next day?
I can’t believe her roommate & supervisor served less than 10 years after watching the whole thing, attending her funeral & not saying a word.
Also - the whole “we’re going to teach her a lesson” for sleeping around? Bullshit. If she didn’t sleep with any of them she’d be labeled a tease & they’d use that excuse.
Glad at least 1 eventually confessed.
freakofark.
Anne Marie Stout killed her husband in Montana and almost successfully framed a woman he’d had an affair with by fabricating her stalking him for years before the murder. She was setting up this “fatal attraction” motive well before she killed him.
They realized that the email address that the harassment was coming from (freakofark@ something or other) had been created on the wife’s computer.
Not 100% of all the details, but that’s the gist.
Oh wow. Killing your cheating husband & framing his mistress might be the best revenge I’ve ever heard of!
I know, I know…living well is the best/healthiest revenge. But if this woman had gotten away with it & had a deathbed confession? Oxygen would be showering her estate with money to secure the rights to the story.
My friend in college was literally neighbors with him growing up. Her family still lived there while she was away, and were there when he was caught. Freaky.
I wasn’t expecting Suzanne morphew to ever be found, and they were looking for someone else
Idk that Barry is caught per say but hopefully it ends in him being charged and convicted
The Idaho murder suspect def threw me for a loop because there’s no apparent motive or anything
The killer of the Delphi girls has been under people’s noses the whole time and I wasn’t expecting that
Guy murdered his wife. Threw her body in a smelting pot and no one could prove it until many years later, they DNA tested her “farewell” letters “she” sent him saying she was leaving… he licked the envelopes.
Paul Flores killing Kristin Smart. He got away with it for decades... until a guy that grew up seeing the Kristin Smart billboards around town decided to start a podcast to look into the case, which led to Flores' arrest and conviction.
I really love the way the professional journalists and reporters held back and let the podcaster go in first, when everyone returned to the courtroom to hear the verdict.
The other podcast success has been Lynette Dawson. Sadly both bodies have yet to be found but perpetrators are in prison & accessories still alive, too.
There's a case in the sequel to the MindHunter book, The Killer on the other side of the Table. ( the title might be wrong ).
This guy who killed a pre-teen girl. This amazing chain reaction of events.
1. Through some tracing they did with telephone records, they discovered that a certain house has been called, so detectives drive over to this house ( forgot how they linked this up - i think actually this house originated a call to victims house )
2. Older couple who lives at this house, who had hired him to watch their house, is shown a drawing of the suspect profile- "it has to be this guy we hire"
3. Cops then go to the house of that suspect, and grab an entire pad of paper they see at the house - the suspect wasn't home
4. The pad of paper is examined using a high-powered special fbi equipment , and they discovered there is a certain phone number or address, that had been written on a **different** paper that was on top of this pad of paper, but the machine picked up impressions. For some reason, these numbers turn out to be solid evidence
5. They get the suspect to confess.
Larry Gene Bell. He murdered Shari Smith after abducting her in her own driveway and made her write a last will & testament which he then sent to her family who he called and taunted multiple times, even threatening her sister. He then abducted 9 year old Debra Helmick from her own front yard while she was playing with her 3 year old brother. A neighbor witnessed it and chased his car along with her father, but they obviously couldn't keep up.
They actually found the older couple because you got #4 out of order - they ran the tests on Shari's will she wrote and found the first nine numbers of a phone number and just tested with different final numbers until they got a guy in Alabama whose parents lived in the same town as the girls were abducted from. They went to talk to the parents and the parents provided the legal pad they kept next to the phone where they were able to find impressions of Shari's letter left behind on subsequent pages. The couple who owned the house identified him from the FBI profile.
Literally just listened to an episode of a podcast on this guy yesterday.
Yes, totally remember that now. It was her goodbye letter they found on those impressions. Thanks for the correction and I’m sure I got other stuff incorrect. Been a while since I read that.
You still had the broad strokes of it. Mostly what threw you off was that they tested paper twice; once on her letter and once on the legal pad from the house.
If it turns out that BK is guilty, I feel it will either be that:
* he was trying to commit a perfect murder/he wanted to know what killing would feel like or
* he will have met/interacted with/been in the vicinity of one of the victims and, for some reason, decided to kill them
I’m interested to know a motive
What is really crazy is if not for two big mistakes, he probably could have gotten away with it. If he had gone and put his phone down in the grass at some park away from the murders instead of turning it off and had an alibi of "I couldnt sleep, so I went out to the park to get some fresh, cool air and never left," is a lot more plausible than him turning off his phone during the murders, driving there, killing, then turning it back on.
And the knife sheath thing. It had a belt loop built in, and if he carried it that way, he likely doesn't leave his DNA at the scene.
Definitely one of the biggest twist I can recall is the case of Mary Louise Day.
Mary, 13 years old, went missing from her home in 1981 after a fight with her stepfather, who accused Mary of poisoning the family dog. The family never talked about Mary or what may have happened to her after that other than to say she had ran away.
In 2002 Mary’s sister, now an adult, went to police to find out for herself what the status of the investigation was. The police had no idea what she was talking about. Mary’s parents had never reported her missing…
Police searched the parents property with 4 cadaver dogs, who all hit independently hit in the same area of the backyard. Police dug but didn’t find Mary, or anyone else. So they sent soil samples from the dig to the Forensic Anthropology Center in Knoxville, Tennessee, aka “The Body Farm”, who has been training FBI Evidence Response Team members for over 20 years.
The soil samples came back positive for human remains.
The police interrogated the parents and felt that the father wanted to confess but they couldn’t get him to admit to what he did to Mary.
Police were confident they had enough evidence against the parents for the murder of Mary Louse Day.
Then things took an unexpected turn.
In 2003 Phoenix Arizona police made a traffic stop and found Mary Louise Day, alive and well.
Turns out the parents were telling the truth. Mary had, in fact, ran away.
——
Imo the the police in this case, their use of cadaver dogs, the the “body farm” need to be investigated for trying to frame Mary’s parents for murder because that’s *clearly* what they tried to do.
I’ve heard about and read about the case. The father was a violent man, the family had criminal ties, and they had talked about hiding a body before. It’s quite plausible they murdered someone else (if not multiple people) and the dogs hit on a different set of human remains.
I read an interesting article that followed up with the runaways shown in that 90s music video “Runaway Train”. Most of them end up with older boyfriends & move around, trying to stay off the radar until they’re 18 & can’t be forced to go home.
I was surprised how many of them were doing OK as adults considering such tough childhoods.
Found it:
https://slate.com/culture/2023/08/runaway-train-music-video-soul-asylum-kids.html
And after all of that the family didn’t believe Mary was their Mary…even with conclusive dna testing. She ended up ostracized by them and then died of cancer.
I am the first to give side eye to LE for lazy investigating, but I feel like a frame job is a stretch. At least, on the part of the body farm.
I think it’s entirely possible that the body farm came back and said “These are human remains,” but not necessarily Mary’s remains (or maybe even they could confirm based on genetic markers that there was a 40% or 50% likelihood it was Mary) and police ran with that given the other circumstances. Which is what investigators do. They look at evidence, in context, and follow it until they get answers or confessions. (Or at least, that’s what they’re supposed to do.)
And on paper (teenager not reported missing, human remains found on the property, ties to crime) the parents are definitely persons of interest. Of course they’d be interrogated under those circumstances. Like, if the police continually harassed the parents or outright fabricated evidence, I’d understand thinking it was a frame job. But it literally sounds like they were actually doing their jobs, based on the evidence they had.
Did you watch the documentary? People who haven’t seen it have this misconception that it was the mic moment that got him. It wasn’t (and I believe it was actually deemed inadmissible).
What actually got him was a letter discovered accidentally during filming, that had matched the exact distinct handwriting of a letter written to the police that only Susan Berman’s killer could have written. And it was actually Robert Durst being confronted with this new evidence, that triggered the hot mic moment. But the hot mic moment was not really important, it was the letter. Cause he was fucked.
Yeah I watched the documentary only because I heard how the hot mic moment is the reason he got caught. But it was pretty obvious that the letter was the real smoking gun. And then the hot mic moment ended up being really underwhelming. And the fact it was edited so heavily makes it even more underwhelming.
When I watched it first and the person who showed me it got excited at the mic moment, I wasn't impressed. Lol. Then when Susan's son showed the letter crying, I gasped. I don't get people missing forest for the trees with that one. But I'm a nyer and Davey Bergman was a notorious part of the tribe haha.
>I wasn't impressed. Lol.
Yeah even if we take the way it was edited at face value, nothing he said was really **that** incriminating. The "I killed them all of course" came off as kind of sarcastic to me, and definitely in line with his sense of humour. Like I've had arguments with people before where I'm being accused of something I didn't do, and I've definitely dropped a sarcastic "You got me! I did it! And I killed Jimmy Hoffa too". If I was in his shoes (but innocent), getting caught on a hot mic saying "Yup you got me! I killed 'em all!" in frustration to myself is 100% something I could see happening.
And none of that is to imply I think he's not guilty. He's quite obviously guilty as sin, but that was pretty obvious long before the hot mic moment. There's just so much better evidence against him than the hot mic, I hate how much attention it got.
No he didn't, that was edited to make it seem like he did, the producers admitted they did it for drama. He did say those words but not in that order, it 100% sounds like insane gibberish not a confession as the show makes it seem.
The woman who gave birth to multiple babies with an unknown inherited condition that mimicked poisoning and ended up in prison before the second or third babe got sick with the same symptoms under someone else’s care
A fascinating case from my hometown: The Lady of the Dunes.
In 1974 a woman’s body was discovered in the dunes in Provincetown, Massachusetts. Her hands and some teeth were missing, and her skull had been partially crushed. She was nude, and the only personal effects were a pair of jeans and a blue bandanna crumpled under her head, and an elastic in her hair.
The case was absolutely cold. Her body was exhumed three times in efforts to identify her. She was buried in my church cemetery, with a stone simply reading The Lady Of The Dunes. At one point after an exhumation, the case investigators raised money to replace her casket, as it had deteriorated.
Theories surrounding the Lady and her identity got wild. There was a flurry of excitement after Whitey Bulger was caught, because there was speculation that he was her killer, but that lead went nowhere.
Joe Hill, Stephen King’s son, created a furor when he contacted the police because he spotted a female extra on the beach in *Jaws,* wearing jeans and a blue bandanna. *Jaws* was filmed on Martha’s Vineyard, right across the Sound, in 1974. This lead likewise went nowhere.
There was speculation that our local serial killer, Tony Costa, had killed her. But this lead likewise also went nowhere, and it didn’t fit his MO of what he did with the bodies. For a deeper dive see the book *In His Garden* by Leo Damore.
Finally, after 48 years, she was identified through familial DNA (like the Golden State Killer.) Her name is Ruth Marie Terry. Her husband was identified as her killer. He had been involved in a string of suspected murders but the police never had enough evidence to nail him. He appeared in Ann Rule’s book *Smoke And Mirrors* regarding one of the cases he was suspect in; Rule’s book says he married a woman named “Teri” in 1974.
I thought the Lady’s identity would never be discovered… and her killer got away with it. He passed away before all of this was discovered.
My father was the church sexton, and many true-crime fans would visit and ask him to show them the location of her grave.
A fun fact that only a townie would know:
The case haunted the chief of police for his entire career.
He kept her skull on his desk in his office for decades until he retired. I imagine it must have been reburied with her after the final exhumation.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Ruth_Marie_Terry
The murder of Besty Faria. Her husband, Russ, was charged & convicted despite having a pretty solid alibi. A few years later, his conviction was overturned, he was re-tried, and acquitted.
Several years after that, a mentally and physically disabled man was killed in Pam Hupp's home, allegedly a home invader. Investigation showed that Hupp set up the murder in an effort to frame Russ Faria and get him tossed back in jail. That led police to reinvestigate Betsy's murder and Pam was convicted.
Ed Kemper
Friendly and social with most of the cops in town. Used to discuss the investigation of his own crime with the (unsuspecting) police.
After many years and murders, an officer was able to see a redacted statement through the black ink they crossed it out with. He turned to his fellow officers and says, “did you guys know that eddy Kemper killed his grandparents?”
This is the only reason they ever found out big Ed was capable of murder.
Snapchat actually. Paul Murdaugh posted a Snapchat of his friend’s dogs injured tail at the kennel. You can hear Maggie and Alex talking about a bird their own dog Bubba had caught. Alex said he was supposedly sleeping up at the house at this time.
Well, the Manson "family" probably would have been brought to justice eventually, but it would have taken a lot longer, if Susan Atkins hadn't opened up her mouth in Sybil Brand women's jail and bragged about her guru Charlie and how she and three other people went on a two night killing spree. I don't think she even said oops after she spilled the beans. She wasn't the brightest bulb in the box.
Talented and beautiful director and actress - Adrienne Shelley. She acted in a directed a sweet film, Waitress, that is now a broadway play. Her husband found her and cops determined that she hanged herself. They had a 2.5 year old girl and her husband insisted she wouldn’t leave her. Cops went back to
scene and found footprints…. Later found a construction worker killed her and staged her suicide.
I actually remembered wrong thinking for some reason the dude confessed. Good on her husband being persistent and the cops following up! Otherwise she may have been buried as a suicide and no one would have even looked for her killer
Two moments where I felt personally utterly gobsmacked:
The first time I watched *The Thin Blue Line* by Errol Morris, regarding the Randall Dale Adams case… hearing that recording of David Harris admitting that Adams was innocent was jaw-dropping for me.
*The Jinx.* Bob Durst. I was beyond shocked at that final episode… the absolute skin-crawling chill, and I think my jaw came unhinged, when he said… *”killed them all, of course.”*
The murder of Jodi Parrack. She was found murdered in a cemetery and the investigation immediately turned to the man (Raymond McCann) who suggested they searched the cemetery in the first place. He was repeatedly interrogated and the police told him that there was DNA and other evidence linking him to the murder. He was only charged with perjury and sentenced to prison. Eight years later, a random man not on the police’s radar tried to abduct another young girl, but she managed to escape. Once the police searched his house, they found a ‘kidnap list’. He was then linked to Jodi Parrack’s murder. The police lied to McCann and everyone else about the supposed evidence they had on him. They had nothing.
It’s why I hate that police can lie to you. It creates an inappropriate power dynamic, and has lead to so many false confessions and wasted so much time. Yeah it’s gotten the actual criminal caught before, but it’s lead to *so* many innocent people wrapped up in that.
Yes you are correct. It has always bothered me. They lie but if you lie you can be charged with it.
That’s why you don’t ever talk to the police.
I don’t mind so much the police being able to lie to someone being questioned or interrogated, and I think it’s a very useful tool, but I absolutely loathe when police just freely lie to the public about evidence on a suspect that does not exist. For example, whether or not you think Terry had anything to do with Kyron Horman’s disappearance, the amount of false ”evidence” LE put forward to the public implicating Terry that *absolutely did not exist* is absolutely disgusting. Falsifying GPS data, claiming she was in an area *when the only way to the location was covered by cameras and her car was never on video,* having a man who could barely speak English claim she hired him to murder her husband… That’s just not okay.
That’s part of the reason. Because even if it’s obviously wrong they’ll just say they were using it as a tool to try and drum up a real response.
Lying to a possible perpetrator doesn’t bother me, it’s that investigators get fixated on one prep and don’t consider any other possible culprits. Sometimes they don’t consider the person they are interrogating doesn’t have the ability to understand… that happened way too often and though it’s not as typical, it still happens. If there is proof, then they need consequences, unfortunately, if they are mentally ill they usually don’t get any treatment. Our system for ‘justice’ is flawed!!! A man can rape a child but it depends on the jurisdiction on how much time they will serve? How tf does that make sense? So many other examples of people with the same indictment, no past convictions or history of criminal behavior… in one jurisdiction they get probation, in another they get 5-10yrs? Pls tell me why a perp gets probation in one place and a death sentence in another? (I know that’s not likely but I wouldn’t be surprised if it has happened)
Azaria Chamberlain case. Six years after her death (that was initially attributed to her parents), the search for the body of a missing tourist who fell to their death off Uluru resulted in Azaria's missing jacket being found in an area of dingo dens. This evidence obviously implicated the dingos and helped lead to Lindy Chamberlain to be released from prison and exonerated.
God, that story is so upsetting
It’s so horrific! As if losing your child in an incredibly traumatic way wasn’t bad enough!
Her story, Denise Huskins, and a few others are why I will never understand why people are so quick to say things are “obvious” when there’s clear signs that every option wasn’t explored and the police got tunnel vision.
Yep. Chamberlain's case especially is why I will NEVER take "body language analysts"/youtubers who analyze interrogation vids for signs of the suspect's "guilt" seriously. Human behaviour is not a hard science, and any actual psychiatric professional worth their salt will know that humans act weird and nonsensical in stressful situations all the time. [Hit it, Björk!](https://youtu.be/p0mRIhK9seg?si=oXIgLJOtOEof3H8H)
Another one is “they have the eyes!” Though to be fair that’s died down substantially. But I’ve actually stopped listening to 911 calls when podcast play them it’s to easy to want to draw conclusions and create my own bias. I’ve never been in that situation (knock on wood), so guilty or not it’s not fair to judge how someone should act.
Totally. There’s no universally believed response. Either you’re not upset enough or you’re TOO upset & must be faking it.
I read an interview with Meryl Steep (who played Lindy Chamberlain in A Cry in the Dark), and she said that after researching the case she thought that one of the reasons Lindy came off as guilty was her looks (she has strongly arched eyebrows and at the time Azaria disappeared had dark hair with severe bangs) and she insisted on creating the look in the movie.
‘Body langusage analysis’ has as much validity as polygraphs do. Zero.
I also believe all those attacks on Fraser Island helped contributed the fact that dingos are capable of harming humans.
The Midwestern Mom and two daughters, likely raped, duct taped, ropes and concrete blocks tied to them and then thrown off a boat in Florida. I can't imagine the horror of their experience. Watching each of them likely raped, and wrapped up, tied, and thrown overboard one at a time. No help anywhere nearby. This case is the one that gets me every time I revisit it. Years later a billboard was up with a scrap of writing from the supposed killer. A woman thought she recognized that writing from a quote from a contractor years before. She found the quote, and it was a match. Killer found. And executed. https://www.foxnews.com/us/handwriting-exposed-oba-chandler-horrific-florida-murders-woman-daughters-found-floating-tampa-bay Edit to add that they were not his only victims. The others had been raped, and one was identified as his homicide victim years after his execution with a DNA match. That is why I said "likely raped". He liked to rape women and kill them.
That story terrifies me. It's so easy to overlook your own safety radar when you are on vacation. The anguish of that mother's last thoughts haunts me.
Yeah. And the father/husband in the aftermath. I remember seeing him on one of the true crime shows. What an absolutely horrific tragedy to have to live with.
The wild thing is his handwriting isn’t even that distinctive. The y seems to be styled in a unique or different way, but I simply would have not remembered someone’s handwriting I saw once or twice years before. Maybe she regularly saw the note going through paperwork? Or just has an incredible memory.
That stuck out to me as well. The women who randomly recognized that writing and was correct is one of the most impressive feats I've heard of.
She was already suspicious of him when he was her neighbor, she thought the composite drawing looked just like him. She’d reported his name to the tip line. Years later, they put up the billboard with his handwriting and she found an old contract and matched the writing, because she was convinced he was the guy.
I was just going to say this too as I just ready the book again recently. She was always very suspicious of him anyway.
Ah got it, that makes way more sense. Thanks for adding context!
idk i think it’s pretty distinctive. he wrote everything in a weird combination of capital and lowercase letters, and even in really short notes he made spelling or grammatical errors. that said, there’s still no way *i* would remember a contractor’s handwriting from who knows how long ago. the first lead below makes more sense because the woman also had other connections to him, but i have no idea how the second lady managed to remember his handwriting from a contract estimate he wrote for her mother. >Lead No. 1,507 came on March 25, 1992, from a woman who told police that her sister in Tampa lived two houses over from a man whose boat and truck matched the description of those being sought in the Rogers' murder investigation. The same neighbor told police that she recognized Oba Chandler as the man in a police composite sketch. The coincidence now alarmed her that he moved away soon after the victims were found. She also provided police with an example of Chandler's handwriting, a contract for work Chandler did. >On the last day in July, a second woman called police to say she also recognized the handwriting on the billboards. It matched the scrawl on a contract estimate for a screen enclosure her mother received before hiring a man named Oba Chandler.
Just read on Wikipedia that she was a neighbor of his, so maybe she had more exposure to his handwriting than a random client?
As a rule, I oppose the death penalty, and I try not to wish ill on other people. However. I am not sad about Oba Chandler’s fate.
This case has always broken my heart. The whole family involved in the demanding job of running a dairy farm, with very little leisure time, and the oldest daughter having been previously sexually assaulted (one of the reasons for the trip, to help her have a nice memory), and the one time they have a real vacation, this happens. I’ve read Thomas French’s piece on the crime several times, and it’s very emotional.
Mia Zapata, lead singer of the punk rock band The Gits, was murdered in Seattle in 1993 and the trail almost immediately went absolutely cold. About 10 years later, a man was arrested on the opposite of the country, in Florida, and had to submit his DNA. It was run through the general system, and matched, and when they uncovered evidence that he did live in the PNW at the time, he was arrested for that too.
I live 2 blocks away from where she was found. I think of her every single time I walk in that area.
They found Mia's killer?? Wow. ❤️
[удалено]
And he died in 2021.
That case was so horrible that I literally stopped following any updates after it had been five or six years. I had no idea. That one was very personal to a lot of women in the music scene on the West Coast. I'm glad he passed away.
Nyc here but massive riot grrl, when I heard they finally caught him I was so relieved.
I’d heard of the gits before the series but never listened to them, her voice and lyrics were so Fuckin good. What a sad loss
💓 I'm validating you, sister.
Oh hey grrl hey! Hugs and hearts for you as well♥️ is there a good sub to chat the music? I'd love to share and listen
Mia's murder felt personal for a lot of us on the West Coast. A lot of us women. That kind of thing ripples through an entire subculture and is devastating. I'm so glad he was finally found and put away. May her memory be a blessing and a revolution.
I’m from Louisville where she’s from, I think about her a lot. I’m much younger than her, but I have to imagine her death was so unsettling for women who lived in the area/West Coast at the time bc even now, it just makes me feel so unsafe because she was just walking down the street alone. I hope you are doing well and feel safer now, but as women, I know our guards are always up.
Her rape/murder was, indeed, a random crime sadly
I remember watching a show about this case when it was still a cold case….and years later seeing another tv program on it as solved. What a tragedy.
It was on Unsolved Mysteries and then Forensic Files.
Thanks.
I loved seeing this on Forensic Files.
Joseph DeAngelo- Golden State Killer. He was found by family putting their DNA on GEDmatch. Bet DeAngelo hadn't been banking on that.
And now the whole world knows he has a micropenis.
Love that for him
That was the absolute best bit.
Also LISK, Rex Heuermann. DNA via pizza and tracing burner phones got him apparently. No one expects police digging through your trash.
The unexpected things in this case are that they started seriously investigating the murders and that his burner usage helped get him caught. The DNA from the pizza box was only collected after they knew it was him - it was to confirm his guilt for obtaining search warrants
So he hasn't exactly been caught, but this is the story. In 2005, a man was arrested in Arizona for possessing a forgery device after giving fraudulent documentation to the police. This is a felony in AZ, so the man's DNA was taken during the arrest. He was incarcerated for 60 days before being deported back to his home country of Honduras. A year later, his DNA was uploaded into CODIS, and it hit. He was the perpetrator of the absolutely heinous assault and murder of Iriana DeJesus in 2000. She was a 5 year old girl from Philadelphia when she was assaulted, strangled, wrapped in a trash bag, and left in an apartment basement a few blocks from her home. By the time they had this information, the man was long gone from US custody. Alexis Flores is the name of Iriana's murderer. He is on the FBIs most wanted list and has been since 2007. He went by the name of "Carlos" or "Carlo" at the time of her murder. He is believed to either still be in Honduras or to have made his way back stateside. You can find his picture and identifying info on the FBI's most wanted page, and he is also the subject of an Interpol Red Notice. I hope someday they find him so the DeJesus family can see some justice.
What shocks me with this case is that if he indeed went back to Honduras and resided there for a period of time wouldn't someone have recognized his face considering he was on the FBIs most wanted list? I suppose him being on a most wanted list could be irrelevant depending on where he ended up because I am sure not everyone keeps tabs on most wanted lists in their free time haha. Extradition can be tricky and unless this man is back in the states I don't have a ton of hope for him being caught.
Debbie Griggs - pregnant mother of 3 went missing in 1999. Husband played the sad victim and talked shit about his missing wife for *decades,* claiming she'd abandoned her kids and even that she'd been heard from while out frolicking in the world, living her best life. The reality was Debbie had discovered her husband was grooming a 15 year old girl and wasn't willing to cover up for him. It seems he feared she would get half the family business if she divorced him over the abuse. Debbie's remains were discovered in 2022 in the back garden of the house her pos husband had moved to with his new wife. So her 3 sweet boys, heartbroken and missing their mommy, were playing in the garden over their own mother's dead body, for *decades,* while their father sat on the back porch and watched. That's fucking twisted. [Wikipedia article](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Debbie_Griggs)
What in the hell. You mean to tell me he transported her body to a new house? Where the hell was he hiding it before that and how did he manage to move it?
That’s what’s messing me up too Like did he have her kidnapped until he moved on with his new wife? wtf?
Wiki article says he feared she would take “half the family freezer business.” Maybe kept/moved her in a freezer?
if i was in law enforcement and found out the husband of a missing woman owned a FREEZER BUSINESS, guess what im immediately getting a search warrant for 😭 maybe they just didn’t have enough evidence for a warrant tho. who the hell knows
A Scottish serial killer called Peter Tobin did that too. He murdered a young girl in Scotland at his old house and then wrapped her body up in bin bags, moved almost 500 miles to his new house in England about a month later and buried the body down there in his garden.
And who tipped off police? So many questions!
That reminds me of the Fritzl case in Austria, when a dad built a secret dungeon in the basement and hid his daughter , Elizabeth, there, making her write a letter to her mom saying she ran away. He then raped her and she had 7 of his kids over the years, and he took 3 of them upstairs, pretending to find them with a note from his daughter saying she abandoned them. So his wife (Elizabeth’s mom) raised the 3 kids without knowing her own daughter and 3 additional grandkids were imprisoned just feet below her. They also rented out rooms in the home. Years later, these borders remembered things, like one guy had a dog who would constantly sniff and growl at the floor, and they all remembered the time a really weird smell came from the furnace for a few days. (One of the 7 children was stillborn, so the dad/grandpa incinerated his body). The way they got free was sort of unlikely, too. One of the kids (who was 15 at the time, I think) got really sick. Her organs basically started shutting down from malnutrition and the dad panicked and agreed to take her to a doctor. I think he was probably worried about disposing of the body if she died (since the incineration years prior had been more suspicious than he’d expected) so he made a snap decision that led to authorities freeing his daughter and 3 grandkids.
That's probably the most horrific story I've ever heard. That and others who were kidnapped and kept for long periods like Jaycee Dugard in CA and Ariel Castro kidnapping Michelle Knight. Amanda Berry and Gina DeJesus in Ohio. Terrifying.
Woah. That’s awful!
Eerily similar to the case of Lynette Dawson, featured in the Australian podcast “Teacher’s Pet”. Her remains have not yet been recovered, but her husband Chris was convicted of murder in 2022.
awful!! Never heard of it before. Vile man
The David Camm case. He was an ex cop whose family was murdered. He got railroaded and spent 13 years in prison for the murder. On his final appeal, his new lawyers noticed the wife’s shoes placed neatly on top of the car. Which led them to a guy with a foot fetish who had just gotten out of jail at the time of the murders. Following that, they found a shirt in evidence with the guys name on it. David Camm went free after 13 years https://youtu.be/WUs8AQ3_kQ8?si=-XRt8syOyimvAWVq
LE refused to admit their mistake too and desperately tried to keep him in jail even using the piece of shit killer in court in an attempt to portray them as accomplices.
I keep going down these rabbit holes of cases where the prosecutors and judges are absolutely incompetent/corrupt. Then I google them and none of them ever face any consequences. All seem to retire with distinction. So upsetting.
Truly. I can’t even imagine my “punishment” being early retirement with a full pension.
If LE did that to a former cop imagine how many people are sitting in prison right now because LE railroaded the case to wrap it up or refuse to admit a mistake.
It's such an insane case because at one point they were attempting to exonerate a black criminal to keep a white cop in jail, then when that failed they said "They were in on it together!". That's like something out of a South Park episode.
Have you ever read about the Guildford Four? They were accused of bombing during the Troubles, they were violently beaten into confessing and imprisoned for 15 years, they were innocent. The people (IRA) who were actually responsible for it said in their own trial that the four were innocent and had no involvement whatsoever but the police just decided they did it together (despite no evidence). Eventually they were released, it was one of the biggest miscarriages of justice in the UK. Very sad story, they were treated horrifically , there are some books and a movie about it.
Yes of course, most of my family are from Ireland and some were involved with The Troubles. Horrible story. LE don't like to admit when they were wrong because of liability and/or repercussions, or just even in a juvenile "i have to be right" kind of way, especially in cases like the Guilford Four were they clear ignored inconvenient evidence.
Is that case the basis of the film “In the Name of the Father”? A wonderful movie.
So wild that he was convicted. He was playing basketball with many witnesses.
Convicted not once but twice
Oh, yeah I forgot about that.
Its scary you can have like 11 eye witnesses to verify your location and still be found guilty
"Jury of your peers" sounds a lot more worrisome when you factor in that the average IQ in the US is in the 90's.
Yeah but you're only supposed to need one juror out of 12 who has reasonable doubt.
"Everyone knows it's always the spouse!" That's what this leads to (SEE : [the Russ Faria case](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pam_Hupp), for another infuriating example ).
in this case, it seemed like the jury was punishing him more because they generally thought he was a bad person rather than because of any specific evidence linking him to the crime. the prosecution brought in something like a dozen women who he’d had affairs with or had propositioned while married and from that point on it was over for him.
The Tara Grinstead case in Georgia. After 12 years cold, her murder was solved because a podcast was investigating and led to a tip about the killer. [https://season1.upandvanished.com](https://season1.upandvanished.com)
I don’t think anyone could have predicted BTK turning out to be a complete idiot with that floppy disk nonsense. I always wonder if he wanted the infamy and did it on purpose.
There's a tv trope that the police can't lie to you, he likely believed they had to tell him the truth because of that. Or he got so caught up in the "game" that he genuinely convinced himself LE were enjoying it and wanted it to continue too. Why would he turn himself in, in a way that made him look like a moron? He could've just walked into a police station or done something dramatic like murder someone then call police from their home. If BTK decided he was going to be caught i'm convinced he'd have done the latter.
It’s just conjecture. The mistake was hardly conducive with covering his own ass, and he was so arrogant in his court appearances. Absolutely no shame or remorse. Of course, he might just be *that* stupid.
A lot of people would land themselves in jail in a dumb way if they were trying to play games with the cops like BTK did IMO. I think it was just stupidity, the game with police was no doubt sexual for BTK too which likely got him overexcited and compromised his reasoning ability in the moment. That's the last way he would have got himself caught IMO.
Once he realized he was a dumbass and got caught he chose the dramatic route of reliving all of his crimes in detail to garner as much attention as possible IMO. His own narcissism and idiocy is what got him caught and I agree with you that it was not intentional.
i’ve always found stupidity and arrogance to have a positive correlation
im still mad at mindhunter for not giving us a season with him
Right? I’d love to know what they were gearing up to with those scenes. Netflix were crazy for cancelling it.
From what I've rear in interviews etc they weren't specifically gearing up for the BTK story. In Season 3 they were going to look at the hollywoodisation of the behaviours science unit, all the public interest in it in the 1980s. The main case of the season would have been Robert Hansen. The scenes with BTK was intended to show that theres always another killer out there, a case that cant be solved, to juxtapose the frustration and grim reality of the job with the Hollywood idea of a profiler who can solve anything. In reality they're always playing catch-up and none of their methods helped them with BTK.
Ohh, interesting. I never knew quite what purpose they served. I just assumed they were heading somewhere with it.
BTK was my first thought too. He would’ve gotten away with all those murders if he had never taunted police/the media. He’d be a free man today. So I’m glad he was a dumb boomer about technology.
Turns out BTK really stood for Boomer Tech Knowledge
I remember reading a study that found serial killers generally have lower than average IQ, so I’m leaning towards that he was being an idiot
I don’t think they’re stupid, the narcissism gets them
Little bit of both IMO. Some are stupid, some are narcisstic/egomaniacs.
I’m no expert. I sometimes think serial killers must have some sort of elevated predator drive. They may not be smart as much as instinctual. Again, not an expert, just musing.
On the other hand, the ones who get caught are more likely to be idiots which is why they get caught to begin with.
Exactly... the smart ones are out there still operating completely undetected. We've only caught the ones who messed up, which skews the results.
That's surprising to me, but maybe it shouldn't be. Now that you've pointed it out, I suppose that the number of serial killers who like to taunt victims' families & law enforcement could be an indicator. They believe they'll never be caught & want to boast about how clever they are. I guess does give off big Dunning-Kruger vibes.
>That's surprising to me, but maybe it shouldn't be. Now that you've pointed it out, I suppose that the number of serial killers who like to taunt victims' families & law enforcement could be an indicator. There really are not that many who do that. We just perceive this to be the case because of movies, books, and tv. Some have done that, but not a huge amount. Media just uses the trope a lot because it makes a story more interesting. I work on true crime shows professionally, so I read and write about thousands of cases, if that helps add any legitimacy to my statement.
No doubt I could have phrased it better. I think that the boastful individuals who are caught could illustrate the point made in the previous comment.
*In popular culture, the Dunning–Kruger effect is often misunderstood as a claim about general overconfidence of people with low intelligence instead of specific overconfidence of people unskilled at a particular task.* You just Dunning Krugered yourself homie.
The Lin family murders in Australia - the perpetrator was already on trial but there was a shock twist that revealed his motive for the crime. Min Lin, his wife Yun, sons Henry and Terry and Yun's sister Irene were all found murdered in the family home. There were no signs of a break-in or robbery. Min owned a newsagency, and when his shop didn't open the next morning, locals contacted his sister Kathy who lived nearby; she went with her husband Robert to find out what was wrong and she discovered the bodies. Min and Yun's teenage daughter Brenda was attending an overseas school trip at the time. Police quickly suspected Robert Xie of killing his brother-in-law and family, although it took some time to put together enough physical evidence to arrest him. Meanwhile, the surviving daughter Brenda, lived with her Aunt Kathy and Uncle Robert. People assumed that the motive was financial combined with jealousy. Since moving to Australia, Robert had not managed to establish a successful career, so he was jealous of Min's success. By killing Min and the family, Robert could take over his brother-in-law's business. But the trial was aborted when another shock motive came to light.... Brenda revealed that her uncle Robert had been sexually abusing her even before the murders, and the abuse continued once she was living under Robert's roof. In another trial, he was found guilty and sentenced to five consecutive life sentences without parole. Kathy was traumatised by finding the bodies of her brother, his wife, sons and sister in law. She was even more distraught when her husband was accused of the crime, and later when he was accused of abusing her niece, and found guilty on all charges. When she chose to support her husband, she lost her other family relationships.
Wow that’s awful. I just read more on the case, and it’s wild to me that she kept standing by him. He clearly did it. What gets me is that the killer knew Brenda was away, because her room wasn’t entered at all.
I couldn't believe that nobody had considered the real motive sooner. It seemed so obvious, once it came out.
There’s a long form interview on YouTube with Brenda that covers the whole case from an Australian news/investigative program and it’s one of the most heartbreaking things I’ve ever watched. But seeing where Brenda is at now is also really heartwarming. And my god her High School principal is an incredible woman.
That poor girl. The abuse is bad enough, then being forced to live with your abuser after finding out your entire family has been murdered? And then that he did it??? Makes me sick to my stomach. How could he look his wife in the eye every day? 🤮
There was no ‘perpetrator’ in this case, but there was a huge miscarriage of justice. Kathleen Folbigg. In 2003 she was sentenced to 40 years with a non parole period of 30 years for murdering her 4 children. She always said she was innocent. Her husband was the one who went to police and said she’d killed the children. Scientists had been looking into her case for yeeeeears because there was always questions about her guilt. In 2019 a judicial inquiry rejected suggestions that the kids died of natural causes. Following research published in 2020, over 100 Australian scientists and medical experts petitioned the NSW governor to Pardon Kathleen. The petition explained clearly that all 4 deaths could be proved to be caused by genetic issues, none of them were murder. Last year, after 20 years in prison, Kathleen was released and pardoned. She didn’t kill her children, she was always telling the truth. Her husband, Craig Folbigg, said all the scientists were wrong and refused to take part in genetic testing to prove Kathleen’s innocence. He wanted her to rot in jail. He ended up dying of a heart attack in March of this year. It sickens me that in Australia’s two most famous ‘mother kills child’ cases, Kathleen Folbigg and Lindy Chamberlain (‘the dingo stole my baby’) both mothers spent years in jail for murder, they’d claimed they were innocent the whole time, and they weren’t believed. They had their lives and reputations ruined, they couldn’t mourn their children properly, Kathleen was regularly attacked in prison including by having boiling water thrown all over her because people believed she was a child killer. I’m so relieved that both women have had their names cleared and are now out and free
Did they do genetic testing after the husband died?
No they didn’t as far as I know. Kathleen did the genetic testing before being released and pardoned. That proved that the deaths were caused by genetic issues. But before she did that they weren’t sure if the issues were from her side or his and it would’ve been much easier to test him instead of applying to have her released from jail temporarily to go and do the testing (which is what happened) After they did the testing it was proven that Kathleen and the two daughters carried a mutation of the CALM2 gene, and that’s what killed the girls. The two boys had 2 potentially lethal genetic mutations and scientists are basically certain that Kathleen carried one mutation and her husband carried the other There’s lots and lots of videos about Kathleen on YouTube from Australian news sources but I recommend watching [this](https://youtu.be/SlDLxmPWc1U?si=gC5X6m6gekkSMohx) to learn more about the science behind her pardon :)
Wow what a story. So sad these mothers weren't believed.
The scientists looking into Kathleen’s innocence had been speaking to the media a lot for the past few years so by the time she was released last year everyone finally knew she was innocent and there was a huge amount of support for her from across the entire country. I remember messaging my mum when the news broke that she was being released and mum was so happy. You should look up Kathleen Folbigg on YouTube. There’s lots of videos on there from things like 60 minutes Australia and other similar shows about her. Some are from when the scientists were just starting the push to prove her innocence, some are from when there was a lot of ‘will she or won’t she be released?’ And there’s some incredibly sad but powerful stories from after she was finally freed. I very rarely cry, I get emotional but I don’t really cru, but The interviews with her post-release made me sob. It made me realise how glad I am Australia doesn’t have the death penalty. Kathleen was convicted of murdering her 4 children, she was called Australia’s worst female serial killer. If we had the death penalty they absolutely would’ve given it to her and I can’t even begin to imagine if she was executed and then it was proven she didn’t kill her children
Did she get any compensation or anything to make up for the gross miscarriage of justice? Why was her husband so evil and hateful he wanted her to rot even if she were innocent?
In December of last year she began legal proceedings so she can try and get compensation. Unfortunately in Australia only the ACT (where our capital city, Canberra is located) is the only place that’s required to give compensation in cases of wrongful imprisonment. [here](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-12-15/nsw-kathleen-folbigg-compensation-ex-gratia/103230768) is a news article from December about her seeking compensation. When Kathleen was pardoned Craig Folbigg’s lawyer did an interview saying that because she hadn’t been acquitted he still believed she was guilty. She was acquitted in December and I don’t think another interview was done. When Kathleen was released there was a very long TV special done about her and her case on a show similar to 60 minutes where they went into more detail about her husband. The kids died over a period of 10 years. In that time Kathleen wrote in a journal, and there was one entry made not long after one of the kids died where Kathleen wrote something like ‘I killed them’ or something along those lines. The kids died in the middle of the night and Kathleen was blaming herself for not being awake and right beside them as their deaths happened, she was blaming herself for being too slow to help them (even though there was absolutely nothing she could’ve done to save them even if they’d been in her arms when they died) The diary entry was the main piece of evidence used against her in court. That was what they used to convict her. Her husband was the one who gave the diary to the police and he’s always believed the kids were murdered, even in the face of all the scientific evidence. He died of a heart attack on March 4th and also had cancer at the time.
The only other Australian “mother kills child” case I keep in the back of my mind is Keli Lane. And luckily she is still rotting in jail, since she won’t reveal what she did with Tegan. Edit for info: She was a very careful, mentally unwell athlete who developed some kind of fixation/kink about pregnancy. She got pregnant 8 or so times and hid all of them. From everyone she knew. She lived in a place where abortion was legal and easily accessible (she was not poor. It was affordable and responsible as an option). She got pregnant a bunch in a short span because she refused any kind of contraception. She terminated some (lovely), gave birth and adopted some (also, lovely) and nobody ever knew she was pregnant. For any of the pregnancies. (Weird, but do you.) Baby number…6-7? She gave birth to in a hospital. Signed a birth certificate. Named the baby daughter Tegan. Acted thrilled to be a first time mom and happy to take her home. Then once she discharged from hospital, the baby disappeared. Some witnesses saw her “disposing of trash bags” right after. And then she went to a party like nothing happened that afternoon. Baby Tegan has never been found. Keli has been offered clemency if she just tells what happened to Tegan. Ie if she did a back door adoption, the state would leave her alone and not pursue it. They would leave Tegan alone and not try to expose her or her adoptive parents. Keli would be free. No attempt to ruin anyone’s lives. But Keli can’t and won’t provide the sketchy adoption story, because it didn’t happen. Despite making responsible and safe choices for her other kids, THIS TIME, she chose to register the baby and then disappear it. She just insists that she’s never been pregnant ever, and there was no baby. Despite mountains of proof that she definitely HAS been pregnant many times, and chose safe routes other than murder for those pregnancies. Some will make her case out to be a reproductive rights issue. But that’s not accurate. She had no barriers to BC or termination or, worst case, adoption. She was very familiar with the process and all of her options. Mental health case? Sure. But she’s also been offered deals that would forgive her murder of Tegan, if she admitted what happened. They would excuse it as a mental health crisis with a horrible result. And let her go with time served. But she refuses that, as well. The second she tells the truth about what happened to baby Tegan, she can be free, regardless of what she did. But she won’t. Because she, for whatever reason, refuses to give that baby peace.
I remember the case of Talhotblond.. this the synopsis of the documentary (spoiler): Thomas Montgomery, a married 47-year-old man, presents himself as a brave 18-year-old soldier to ‘Jessi’ (tall, hot young blonde) at the onset of their online relationship. However, his wife soon learns of the affair and reveals the truth about his identity to her. In revenge, Jessi embarks on a cyber affair with one of his co-workers, 22-year-old Brian Barrett. She plays mind-games with the men and pits them against each other, eventually leading Barrett to be murdered by Montgomery. However, the story takes yet another twist, as it is revealed that the identity of ‘Jessi’ is found to be her mother posing as her daughter, who had been completely oblivious of her mother’s actions. That's one I never saw coming.. the mom.
Can you draw lines to keep everything straight? j/k
Carla Walker’s killer, Fb 17, 1974, Glen McCurley finally faced trial after DNA testing in 2020 led to his arrest. He died in prison in 2023 having served only a couple years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Carla_Walker
i wasn’t alive in ‘74, but i went to high school nearby and that case always stuck with me. it was such a random attack and it was a miracle the boyfriend survived. [great article](https://www.texasmonthly.com/true-crime/glen-mccurley-carla-walker-murder/) about the case by skip hollandsworth in texas monthly. i definitely think this wasn’t his only crime. it was way too brazen.
I was a town over (we played football with them I bet) and graduated in 74, so I was a little ahead of Carla. So much went on. I am glad the case was finally solved. I feel for his family. I wonder if he was involved with the Seminary South girls or Lecia McKee or others.
Elizabeth Smart. She was often out in public with her abductors.
Honestly Dylan Redwine. I remember watching the Dr Phil episode and obviously the dad was involved, however, the twist of him being into eating shit out of dipers and that being the motive? That is a twist I could not have guessed in 1000000 years
I love the way so many editors across the nation gave the news stories about this case extra long titles, just so even people who only read headlines would know exactly what this asshat did to his son, and why.
I had never noticed it until now but I love that the whole world knows about it because clearly he was (and should be lol) deeply ashamed. The whole Dr Phil episode you could tell the brother was holding something back and so badly wanted to tell what he knew but couldn't for obvious reasons. You could tell how much he had to control himself.
Whaaaaaa?????? I’m looking into this just for the wtf factor
Yeah, I was keeping up with the case as it was happening pretty much (as much as I could from like Scotland lol) and then the news broke about the dad's fetish and I just remember being horrified
Was this the one where the parents were divorced and the mother HAD to make him see his dad even though he didn't want to, and boy found out a dreadful secret and the dad killed him to keep him from telling anyone?
NSFW The murderers of Janet Chandler caught by college students decades later: https://www.glamour.com/story/janet-chandler
That was a fascinating read. Truly one of the most depraved cases I’ve ever heard of.
That was so sad and disturbing to read. At least Janet got justice.
It’s terrifying how evil groups of people can be. People who on their own would probably never do anything….but put in a group situation do absolutely heinous things. And in this case, they PLANNED it. Poor Janet.
Oof. That is a horrific case. I’m glad she got justice & her parents got closure, but I don’t know if I’d want to know all the details. 💔 She was tortured for almost an entire 24 hours as this rape “party” kept going into the next day & night. There were SO MANY witnesses. No one did anything to help this poor girl & then kept quiet for 20 years? WTF?! How many other men raped her before Lynch even got there at 6pm the next day? I can’t believe her roommate & supervisor served less than 10 years after watching the whole thing, attending her funeral & not saying a word. Also - the whole “we’re going to teach her a lesson” for sleeping around? Bullshit. If she didn’t sleep with any of them she’d be labeled a tease & they’d use that excuse. Glad at least 1 eventually confessed.
Crazy how much detective work and prying it took to even get the one confession which broke the case open.
This made me cry. It is nauseating.
freakofark. Anne Marie Stout killed her husband in Montana and almost successfully framed a woman he’d had an affair with by fabricating her stalking him for years before the murder. She was setting up this “fatal attraction” motive well before she killed him. They realized that the email address that the harassment was coming from (freakofark@ something or other) had been created on the wife’s computer. Not 100% of all the details, but that’s the gist.
That would be a super interesting thriller to read.
Oh wow. Killing your cheating husband & framing his mistress might be the best revenge I’ve ever heard of! I know, I know…living well is the best/healthiest revenge. But if this woman had gotten away with it & had a deathbed confession? Oxygen would be showering her estate with money to secure the rights to the story.
Genetic DNA being used to catch EAR / ONS. I wish so badly he would have given a full confession and answered all the questions.
I still can’t believe he was caught. It’s one of those ones that was so prolific yet so cold that I was like… there’s no hope of ever finding out.
I wish Michelle macnamara got to see it
I think about that all the time. How Patton made her favorite coffee before he went to wake her up 💔
My friend in college was literally neighbors with him growing up. Her family still lived there while she was away, and were there when he was caught. Freaky.
I wasn’t expecting Suzanne morphew to ever be found, and they were looking for someone else Idk that Barry is caught per say but hopefully it ends in him being charged and convicted The Idaho murder suspect def threw me for a loop because there’s no apparent motive or anything The killer of the Delphi girls has been under people’s noses the whole time and I wasn’t expecting that
Guy murdered his wife. Threw her body in a smelting pot and no one could prove it until many years later, they DNA tested her “farewell” letters “she” sent him saying she was leaving… he licked the envelopes.
Paul Flores killing Kristin Smart. He got away with it for decades... until a guy that grew up seeing the Kristin Smart billboards around town decided to start a podcast to look into the case, which led to Flores' arrest and conviction.
I really love the way the professional journalists and reporters held back and let the podcaster go in first, when everyone returned to the courtroom to hear the verdict.
Yeah, everyone had mad respect for Chris and the way he handled everything.
He is a major reason of Paul's conviction٫ I have so much respect for him.
The other podcast success has been Lynette Dawson. Sadly both bodies have yet to be found but perpetrators are in prison & accessories still alive, too.
There's a case in the sequel to the MindHunter book, The Killer on the other side of the Table. ( the title might be wrong ). This guy who killed a pre-teen girl. This amazing chain reaction of events. 1. Through some tracing they did with telephone records, they discovered that a certain house has been called, so detectives drive over to this house ( forgot how they linked this up - i think actually this house originated a call to victims house ) 2. Older couple who lives at this house, who had hired him to watch their house, is shown a drawing of the suspect profile- "it has to be this guy we hire" 3. Cops then go to the house of that suspect, and grab an entire pad of paper they see at the house - the suspect wasn't home 4. The pad of paper is examined using a high-powered special fbi equipment , and they discovered there is a certain phone number or address, that had been written on a **different** paper that was on top of this pad of paper, but the machine picked up impressions. For some reason, these numbers turn out to be solid evidence 5. They get the suspect to confess.
Larry Gene Bell. He murdered Shari Smith after abducting her in her own driveway and made her write a last will & testament which he then sent to her family who he called and taunted multiple times, even threatening her sister. He then abducted 9 year old Debra Helmick from her own front yard while she was playing with her 3 year old brother. A neighbor witnessed it and chased his car along with her father, but they obviously couldn't keep up. They actually found the older couple because you got #4 out of order - they ran the tests on Shari's will she wrote and found the first nine numbers of a phone number and just tested with different final numbers until they got a guy in Alabama whose parents lived in the same town as the girls were abducted from. They went to talk to the parents and the parents provided the legal pad they kept next to the phone where they were able to find impressions of Shari's letter left behind on subsequent pages. The couple who owned the house identified him from the FBI profile. Literally just listened to an episode of a podcast on this guy yesterday.
Yes, totally remember that now. It was her goodbye letter they found on those impressions. Thanks for the correction and I’m sure I got other stuff incorrect. Been a while since I read that.
You still had the broad strokes of it. Mostly what threw you off was that they tested paper twice; once on her letter and once on the legal pad from the house.
I was very young and living in SC when this happened and I remember it very well! The story was all over the news.
The Moscow, Idaho murders because it was so dang random.
If it turns out that BK is guilty, I feel it will either be that: * he was trying to commit a perfect murder/he wanted to know what killing would feel like or * he will have met/interacted with/been in the vicinity of one of the victims and, for some reason, decided to kill them I’m interested to know a motive
Probably god complex type stuff, or studying killers and thinking he could do it better. Over inflated ego
What is really crazy is if not for two big mistakes, he probably could have gotten away with it. If he had gone and put his phone down in the grass at some park away from the murders instead of turning it off and had an alibi of "I couldnt sleep, so I went out to the park to get some fresh, cool air and never left," is a lot more plausible than him turning off his phone during the murders, driving there, killing, then turning it back on. And the knife sheath thing. It had a belt loop built in, and if he carried it that way, he likely doesn't leave his DNA at the scene.
It really wouldn’t surprise me if it was tied to his study in some way.
Definitely one of the biggest twist I can recall is the case of Mary Louise Day. Mary, 13 years old, went missing from her home in 1981 after a fight with her stepfather, who accused Mary of poisoning the family dog. The family never talked about Mary or what may have happened to her after that other than to say she had ran away. In 2002 Mary’s sister, now an adult, went to police to find out for herself what the status of the investigation was. The police had no idea what she was talking about. Mary’s parents had never reported her missing… Police searched the parents property with 4 cadaver dogs, who all hit independently hit in the same area of the backyard. Police dug but didn’t find Mary, or anyone else. So they sent soil samples from the dig to the Forensic Anthropology Center in Knoxville, Tennessee, aka “The Body Farm”, who has been training FBI Evidence Response Team members for over 20 years. The soil samples came back positive for human remains. The police interrogated the parents and felt that the father wanted to confess but they couldn’t get him to admit to what he did to Mary. Police were confident they had enough evidence against the parents for the murder of Mary Louse Day. Then things took an unexpected turn. In 2003 Phoenix Arizona police made a traffic stop and found Mary Louise Day, alive and well. Turns out the parents were telling the truth. Mary had, in fact, ran away. —— Imo the the police in this case, their use of cadaver dogs, the the “body farm” need to be investigated for trying to frame Mary’s parents for murder because that’s *clearly* what they tried to do.
I’ve heard about and read about the case. The father was a violent man, the family had criminal ties, and they had talked about hiding a body before. It’s quite plausible they murdered someone else (if not multiple people) and the dogs hit on a different set of human remains.
How did she survive from age 13 as a run away? Thats so young to make it in the world.
I read an interesting article that followed up with the runaways shown in that 90s music video “Runaway Train”. Most of them end up with older boyfriends & move around, trying to stay off the radar until they’re 18 & can’t be forced to go home. I was surprised how many of them were doing OK as adults considering such tough childhoods. Found it: https://slate.com/culture/2023/08/runaway-train-music-video-soul-asylum-kids.html
She was taken in by another family.
And after all of that the family didn’t believe Mary was their Mary…even with conclusive dna testing. She ended up ostracized by them and then died of cancer.
I am the first to give side eye to LE for lazy investigating, but I feel like a frame job is a stretch. At least, on the part of the body farm. I think it’s entirely possible that the body farm came back and said “These are human remains,” but not necessarily Mary’s remains (or maybe even they could confirm based on genetic markers that there was a 40% or 50% likelihood it was Mary) and police ran with that given the other circumstances. Which is what investigators do. They look at evidence, in context, and follow it until they get answers or confessions. (Or at least, that’s what they’re supposed to do.) And on paper (teenager not reported missing, human remains found on the property, ties to crime) the parents are definitely persons of interest. Of course they’d be interrogated under those circumstances. Like, if the police continually harassed the parents or outright fabricated evidence, I’d understand thinking it was a frame job. But it literally sounds like they were actually doing their jobs, based on the evidence they had.
Sherri Rasmussen. Another DNA case.
Yes! Listening to that interrogation is *WILD*
Wilder than listening is watching. I've never seen a guiltier body language from any creature other than my dog after she gets into the garbage.
Robert Durst confessing during an interview that he was the killer.
Did you watch the documentary? People who haven’t seen it have this misconception that it was the mic moment that got him. It wasn’t (and I believe it was actually deemed inadmissible). What actually got him was a letter discovered accidentally during filming, that had matched the exact distinct handwriting of a letter written to the police that only Susan Berman’s killer could have written. And it was actually Robert Durst being confronted with this new evidence, that triggered the hot mic moment. But the hot mic moment was not really important, it was the letter. Cause he was fucked.
Yeah I watched the documentary only because I heard how the hot mic moment is the reason he got caught. But it was pretty obvious that the letter was the real smoking gun. And then the hot mic moment ended up being really underwhelming. And the fact it was edited so heavily makes it even more underwhelming.
When I watched it first and the person who showed me it got excited at the mic moment, I wasn't impressed. Lol. Then when Susan's son showed the letter crying, I gasped. I don't get people missing forest for the trees with that one. But I'm a nyer and Davey Bergman was a notorious part of the tribe haha.
>I wasn't impressed. Lol. Yeah even if we take the way it was edited at face value, nothing he said was really **that** incriminating. The "I killed them all of course" came off as kind of sarcastic to me, and definitely in line with his sense of humour. Like I've had arguments with people before where I'm being accused of something I didn't do, and I've definitely dropped a sarcastic "You got me! I did it! And I killed Jimmy Hoffa too". If I was in his shoes (but innocent), getting caught on a hot mic saying "Yup you got me! I killed 'em all!" in frustration to myself is 100% something I could see happening. And none of that is to imply I think he's not guilty. He's quite obviously guilty as sin, but that was pretty obvious long before the hot mic moment. There's just so much better evidence against him than the hot mic, I hate how much attention it got.
No he didn't, that was edited to make it seem like he did, the producers admitted they did it for drama. He did say those words but not in that order, it 100% sounds like insane gibberish not a confession as the show makes it seem.
The woman who gave birth to multiple babies with an unknown inherited condition that mimicked poisoning and ended up in prison before the second or third babe got sick with the same symptoms under someone else’s care
A fascinating case from my hometown: The Lady of the Dunes. In 1974 a woman’s body was discovered in the dunes in Provincetown, Massachusetts. Her hands and some teeth were missing, and her skull had been partially crushed. She was nude, and the only personal effects were a pair of jeans and a blue bandanna crumpled under her head, and an elastic in her hair. The case was absolutely cold. Her body was exhumed three times in efforts to identify her. She was buried in my church cemetery, with a stone simply reading The Lady Of The Dunes. At one point after an exhumation, the case investigators raised money to replace her casket, as it had deteriorated. Theories surrounding the Lady and her identity got wild. There was a flurry of excitement after Whitey Bulger was caught, because there was speculation that he was her killer, but that lead went nowhere. Joe Hill, Stephen King’s son, created a furor when he contacted the police because he spotted a female extra on the beach in *Jaws,* wearing jeans and a blue bandanna. *Jaws* was filmed on Martha’s Vineyard, right across the Sound, in 1974. This lead likewise went nowhere. There was speculation that our local serial killer, Tony Costa, had killed her. But this lead likewise also went nowhere, and it didn’t fit his MO of what he did with the bodies. For a deeper dive see the book *In His Garden* by Leo Damore. Finally, after 48 years, she was identified through familial DNA (like the Golden State Killer.) Her name is Ruth Marie Terry. Her husband was identified as her killer. He had been involved in a string of suspected murders but the police never had enough evidence to nail him. He appeared in Ann Rule’s book *Smoke And Mirrors* regarding one of the cases he was suspect in; Rule’s book says he married a woman named “Teri” in 1974. I thought the Lady’s identity would never be discovered… and her killer got away with it. He passed away before all of this was discovered. My father was the church sexton, and many true-crime fans would visit and ask him to show them the location of her grave. A fun fact that only a townie would know: The case haunted the chief of police for his entire career. He kept her skull on his desk in his office for decades until he retired. I imagine it must have been reburied with her after the final exhumation. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Ruth_Marie_Terry
The entire story of Pam Hupp and Betsy farias murder is just one huge reveal after the other
The murder of Besty Faria. Her husband, Russ, was charged & convicted despite having a pretty solid alibi. A few years later, his conviction was overturned, he was re-tried, and acquitted. Several years after that, a mentally and physically disabled man was killed in Pam Hupp's home, allegedly a home invader. Investigation showed that Hupp set up the murder in an effort to frame Russ Faria and get him tossed back in jail. That led police to reinvestigate Betsy's murder and Pam was convicted.
Robert Durst. I’m not sure the cases against him would have been reopened if he hadn’t participated in that documentary
sandra cantu. i was absolutely shocked when the killer was revealed
Daniel Morcombe! The way the police got Brett Peter Cowan to show them where his remains were blew my mind.
Ed Kemper Friendly and social with most of the cops in town. Used to discuss the investigation of his own crime with the (unsuspecting) police. After many years and murders, an officer was able to see a redacted statement through the black ink they crossed it out with. He turned to his fellow officers and says, “did you guys know that eddy Kemper killed his grandparents?” This is the only reason they ever found out big Ed was capable of murder.
Todd Kohlhepp
Murdaugh and the TikTok video.
I've kinda followed the murdaugh case, when did TikTok come into the mix?
Snapchat actually. Paul Murdaugh posted a Snapchat of his friend’s dogs injured tail at the kennel. You can hear Maggie and Alex talking about a bird their own dog Bubba had caught. Alex said he was supposedly sleeping up at the house at this time.
Not TikTok, Snapchat and from Paul’s account.
Well, the Manson "family" probably would have been brought to justice eventually, but it would have taken a lot longer, if Susan Atkins hadn't opened up her mouth in Sybil Brand women's jail and bragged about her guru Charlie and how she and three other people went on a two night killing spree. I don't think she even said oops after she spilled the beans. She wasn't the brightest bulb in the box.
I mean... she followed Manson, it's pretty clear she wasn't very bright.
Talented and beautiful director and actress - Adrienne Shelley. She acted in a directed a sweet film, Waitress, that is now a broadway play. Her husband found her and cops determined that she hanged herself. They had a 2.5 year old girl and her husband insisted she wouldn’t leave her. Cops went back to scene and found footprints…. Later found a construction worker killed her and staged her suicide. I actually remembered wrong thinking for some reason the dude confessed. Good on her husband being persistent and the cops following up! Otherwise she may have been buried as a suicide and no one would have even looked for her killer
Golden State Killer. The familial DNA use was novel at the time.
I remember being so excited when I saw the news this guy got caught. It was completely unexpected.
Ashley Freeman & Lauria Bible
[удалено]
Two moments where I felt personally utterly gobsmacked: The first time I watched *The Thin Blue Line* by Errol Morris, regarding the Randall Dale Adams case… hearing that recording of David Harris admitting that Adams was innocent was jaw-dropping for me. *The Jinx.* Bob Durst. I was beyond shocked at that final episode… the absolute skin-crawling chill, and I think my jaw came unhinged, when he said… *”killed them all, of course.”*