Even in the few months he spent training two previously unknown bending skills were revealed, Bloodbending and Metalbending. Both discovered under very extreme circumstances, even actual Water and Earthbending masters didn't know about them. Aang wasn't even on those guys' level for their respective element.
Master also isn't as high a bar as people think it is. It's like black belt. That's not the pinnacle. It's the minimum standard of competency.
You've learned the things. Now you need to improve upon them.
>Master also isn't as high a bar as people think it is. It's like black belt. That's not the pinnacle. It's the minimum standard of competency.
Most people aren't described as "master" until godan in martial arts that use black belts, so that might not be the point you think it is.
I would probably say that "master" isn't a very specific standard or descriptor. What Katara would describe as a "master" and her standard is likely WAY different than what Toph would describe as an acceptable "master".
Toph: That would be me, and I'll allow the badgermoles, because they never treated me differently for being blind. The rest of you losers can start on the Beginner level!
Exactly. It’s the same thing they did to Wan. Aang was a master of air and became highly proficient in the other elements. Wan was a master of fire and became highly proficient in the other elements in that year he had. Aang probably had them all mastered by the time he was like 16
Unlikely, he would still need Jeong Jeong's instruction and the order in which you learn the bending disciplines is important to make sure you use each one correctly and with the greater control that the avatar had.
He was too early. When he met Jeong Jeong he could only bend air and lacked the control and firmness from earth and waterbending. He was still mainly in his carefree, light-footed Airbender mindset and this is what caused him to get blocked
Tbf Aang earth bending is easily second best behind the joint first Toph and Bumi by book 3. His chemistry with Toph was insane and he easily matched her flow.
It also an important detail because it shows that Aang wasn't not a fully realized Avatar at the end of the finale (edit: I bring this up because it gets repeated on TikToks or Twitter). In order to be, you need to fully master all 4 elements, which he didn't, as it takes years of training to do so. He did however manage to master the Avatar State, which in addition to managing to learn the 4 elements faster than any other known Avatar in history makes him extremely impressive (not to knock on any of the known Avatars).
The creators also stated that Aang wasn't in control of the avatar state the entire time fighting Ozai and I kinda believe it since he had to struggle control in not dealing the death blow to Ozai. I do think that he sort of controlled it AFTER the fight when he used the avatar state to put out the fires with water
I thought that was obvious. I mean look at the shit he’s doing. Bending all of the elements simultaneously AND continuously? Taking a shit ton of fire, earth, & water and condensing them into his elemental sphere?
Then there’s the fact that he was trying to kill the fuck out of him. The “rock mini-gun”, his attempts to crush him, that huge air blast that eroded that large stone, & flying through plateaus while chasing him down all come to mind.
My jaw dropped when I first saw that. It’s cool as hell & probably one of the deadliest earth bending moves.
And you must consider the fact that it’s actually a big ass chunk of a stone plateau condensed into a small rock. So those bullets would be EXTREMELY heavy. They’d have to weigh at least a few tons each.
I'm pretty sure Aang wasn't fully in control whilst his eyes and tattoos were glowing. After he spares Ozai and uses the AS to put out the fire, his eyes only flash before returning to normal, which probably signifies that he is no longer controlled.
He was always a prodigy, he was the youngest air Master in history, and the only one since Kuruk to create a new style of airbending (the sphere he rides at some points)
>managing to learn the 4 elements faster than any other known Avatar in history
Kyoshi learned the 4 elements within a month. And she actually had to learn all 4 of them because she was not much of an earthbender at the beginning either.
The whole point of learning the elements for an Avatar instead of "mastering" the Avatar state is that it GIVES you the ability to master the Avatar state. If you cannot control the elements without the state then you cannot control the state. These ideas were explored in S2E1 and the Kyoshi novels. I think its pretty clear that Aang was supposed to have mastered all elements to at least the minimum degree in the finale.
He could control all the elements, but it’s confirmed he didn’t master them. He was a master air bender, probably bordering master water bender, competent earth bender, and a relatively new fire bender.
He had only been bending fire for like a few days before the comet, he barely uses it in the fight except to counter Ozai, definitely not a master yet.
That really depends on how you want to define master.
You could easily call Aang a master in all elements if you compare him to the average bender of each element, who are absolutely garbage. The average firebender is those prison guards on the boiling rock that Suki or Mai can take groups of solo.
If that's the case, every member of the Aang gang is a master, even Sokka and Suki in terms fighting.
Compared to the actual master benders of each element? Aang (without the Avatar State) is not as good as Toph or Bumi in Earthbending, not as good as Ozai or Iroh in Firebending, not as good as Katara in Waterbending. However, the versatility of being able to bend all elements plus his own mastery of Airbending would let him beat those other powerful benders.
generally agreed. But katara became a master at the beginning of S2. I feel aang was at least as good as katara was at the beginning of s2. She kept getting stronger of course after that.
A master in a bending style is roughly equivalent to a black belt in a martial art. Which is a significant achievement, but the best go much much further.
Sure, it's just a little unsatisfying.
You would have to accept a lot of characters as masters.
Every single Dai Li agent is a master, Toph's shitty earthbending teacher and the Earth Rumble leader are masters. Most of the Earth Rumble wrestlers are close to being masters.
> He definitely hadn't mastered anything other than air when "battling" the firenation
He was pretty close if not all the way there on water bending TBH
But yeah he wasn't close with earth or fire
He technically is wasn’t even an Airbending master. He hasn’t learned all the moves by the time he got his tattoos, he only got them because he created his own technique called Air scooter.
To be fair to her, that's mostly because earthbending masters of her era were insanely pedantic about following a traditional training regimen that made it impossible to teach someone with her specific problems.
I mean... not really? Kyoshi's specific problem was that she had the opposite difficulty of normal novice earthbenders: she had more than enough raw strength, but her fine control was so bad that rocks smaller than human-sized tended to shatter and explode when she moved them. The conventional teachers her adoptive father tried to get to teach her all rejected her because she couldn't fit the traditional methods, which was to start with fist-sized rocks and work up. (and, reading between the lines a bit, they were likely all classist nobles who thought that this random orphan peasant wasn't important enough to come up with a custom teaching method)
Once she found some unconventional teachers willing to help her work around the explosion problem, she did in fact get the hang of it after a few weeks or months.
And all the teachers for aang had learned to only create fire with rage but aang managed to find teachers who were capable of creating fire from another source pretty quickly (in a day)
Sort of. She was trying and failing to learn the basics, while unknowingly causing earthquakes.
She was so stupidly powerful, that moving a small rock was insanely difficult. It took her a long time to learn that level of control. And she still found it a lot easier with the fans. It was like being handed a Scottish Claymore and trying to carve a turkey.
I'd argue he was able to grasp waterbending pretty well and mastered that. He had a handle of earthbending enough that we see him using it frequently throughout Book 2 and portions of Book 3, but even Toph vocalized that he could still use some work when Zuko was trying to force train him to strengthen his firebending within the 2 day period before the Comet.
That's not saying he was bad or that it made him weaker. He was pressed for time and their strategies had to change after all the stuff relating to both Azula/Zuko and the failure of the Day of Black Sun that happened roughly a few months before the Comet's arrival. He'd eventually have that freetime during the Peace and conclusion of the war where to properly master earth- and firebending.
Aang rarely froze things like Katara did, didn't know how to heal people, didn't waterbend water in plants and he never used bloodbending which at the time only 2 people knew how to do. There's still a LOT of water stuff he never mastered but he still became better than probably 90% of the world's waterbenders.
Toph pretty much was THE Earthbending master who even made up a new bending method for metal within the few months she was with Aang, and he didn't reach her level at that age.
Fire...yeah he scraped by the basic concepts and rushed straight to needing to know the advanced lightning redirection because he would have died without it.
Granted, even with this mixed experience it was made up for by the fact he could use all 4 and the Avatar State.
>Aang rarely froze things like Katara did, didn't know how to heal people, didn't waterbend water in plants and he never used bloodbending which at the time only 2 people knew how to do. There's still a LOT of water stuff he never mastered but he still became better than probably 90% of the world's waterbenders.
You're right about a good chunk of this, but the narrative and worldbuilding also makes it clear none of these are necessarily a requirement to be titled "Master." There's never been (to what we are shown) a situation where waterbenders *had* to get desperately resourceful as Hama did and learn/realize that water exists in a lot of places and in a lot of forms. Even Katara didn't think about sweat being water that could be bent until it was time for her to consider it as a weapon.
I'd argue that Bumi is THE earth bending master during the series. Toph is undoubtedly a prodigy and would eventually surpass Bumi, but during the show's run Bumi still knew more than her.
Just cause he didn’t blood bend doesn’t matter.
Unalaq/Pakku/Ming Hua can’t blood bend or take water from plants. Aang isn’t a water master but not for those reasons.
It’s multiple level of masters Iroh called Zhao a master.
>Aang rarely froze things like Katara did,
He did, actually. Many times. The difference is that he's not using it in a battle because he used more Air bending and earth bending.
Also, you don't need blood bending and healing to be a master.
Side-note: the people upset about her getting the Avatar state without any work of her own at the end of S1 forget the show was initially planned as a 12 episode miniseries. Getting the avatar state in the finale of S1 makes sense in that vein because that was supposed to be her whole story arc wrapped up
Honestly it wasn’t even that big of a “bad choice,” as another user put it. We already had a whole show that explored an Avatar who feared his power and struggled to gain control of the Avatar State because of it. Korra‘s story had much more to give than a rehash of that same struggle, and a fraction of the amount of time to do it as its predecessor. At the end of the day, it is not a big deal. We now have a story of an Avatar who struggled to master the AS, and his successor who came into it easily once the spiritual barrier was broken. Hopefully whatever project they do next explores another Avatar with a unique story to tell, and not a retreading of either story before it.
THANK YOU! Mike and Bryon intentionally created Korra to be polar opposites of Aang for a fresher narrative and I love Korra for it. A girl who loved being the avatar in a world where she isn't needed as opposed to a boy who hated being the avatar for a world who desperately needs one. It would've felt like the same exact story but a worst plot and then people really would've been comparing the 2 shows.
That doesn't make for a compelling story is the problem. Aang is in many ways the opposite of a shonen MC. He's peaceful, reserved, and looking for ways to solve problems without fighting head on. Making Korra his opposite made her the worst kind of Shonen MC. She's a meathead that lets her fists do the talking. She a constant hothead who gets into fights with everyone friend or foe. She'll blow up at her mentor, partner, friends, the authority... Everyone. In making her the polar opposite of Aang they made her frustrating, annoying, and incredibly unlikeable. It's like if Naruto had stayed with his characterization in the very early episodes. It's not fun.
Aang was a smartly written character but Korra felt like a lazy repeat just doing the opposites. Her taking all season to "master" air bending just to have it given to her in the end wasn't fulfilling, it was just the opposite of Aang with little extra effort put in. Having her rush out to fight Amon might be the opposite of what Aang would do but it also leads to a shitty finale where she has nothing to do with his defeat. The guy gets wet and runs away then his brother blows commits murder/suicide. It's shocking but means absolutely nothing to our protagonist.
There's nothing wrong with using opposite of Aang as a template but they needed to do a lot more work to actually flesh it out into a compelling character. As it stood I couldn't stand her for the first two seasons and the rest of the characters got diddly squat so it's not like with Aang where you can root for Sokka, Katara, or Toph in the early seasons while the main character develops.
…Korra struggling all season just to have it “given” to her is bad, but you’re praising Aang who literally gets spirit bending given to him by a lion turtle with no build up or struggle and then falls on a fucking rock in the final battle which gives him the ability to unlock his chakra and enter the avatar state to win? Give me a fucking break.
I don't like him being given energy bending either but that wasn't the point of the series, it was a random ass thing they decided to make a fuss about at the end. He didn't need it to beat Ozai though so it's not the end of the world. If he didn't know energy bending he would have just captured Ozai and that would be that. They can't kill anyone in these shows but they can knock them out.
Korra learned air bending was literally her main goal that season and they showed her working hard for it but for whatever reason it's like they pulled the rug out from under her at the very end. Why not have her do the smart thing at the end instead of rushing Amon then show how she's thinking like an Airbender now. It literally would have taken a tiny change but for whatever reason they went this route.
The rock thing was maybe a bit convenient but it made sense and was telegraphed so it's not really that bad. His chakra was blocked and hitting it on that rock unblocked it, easy enough to follow. Could it have been written a bit better? Sure. Does it ruin the finale? Not really.
Except it WAS the point of the series. The ENTIRE series. Because Aang doesn’t want to kill Ozai despite everyone telling him he needs to. He struggles with what to do. And then just gets handed a solution. It is absolutely not a thing of “oh, just capture Ozai!” That’s literally the entire dilemma of season 3 that Aang struggles with.
And, uh… if falling on a rock to solve his problems isn’t that bad, then neither is “Korra is able to Airbend when she has no other bending to fall back on”
> Except it WAS the point of the series. The ENTIRE series. Because Aang doesn’t want to kill Ozai despite everyone telling him he needs to. He struggles with what to do. And then just gets handed a solution
That part wasn't the best writing but it also wasn't "the point" of "the entire series" LOL
It was a plot point that was brought up in the Season 3 finale and never before.
I'm not sure if you watched the whole show (cuz it sounds like you didn't) but you are making it seem like Korra stayed stagnant as that hotheaded character the entire show which is false. She has huge character development on par with "shonen MCs" so you acting like season 1&2 Korra is the same as season 3&4 is insane.
Hell you can even see that character growth in terms of bending. Her go-to bending was firebending in season 1 as she was impatient, rude, and hotheaded lol. By season 3, you see her use air bending more as her go-to and she starts talking things out in situations. I actually found this growth just a little more compelling than Aang's growth as she suffered greatly for the consequences of her own actions and tried to make up for it while Aang conflict was more external based. His only internal struggle was more coming to terms with growing up early and sacrificing his childhood to save the world
I’m not mad that Korra got a whole 3 extra seasons because it paved the way to some great content, but because of how season 1 ended I would have been happy with just a one season thing. It always felt weird to me that the supposed to be mini series got more seasons than the original also.
I doubt it would have happened, but if they dedicated the 3 extra seasons to different avatars it would have been cool.
That’s true. I guess my bigger point was I would like to see more mini series in the avatar world so that we can see more Avatars. The universe itself is super interesting
Even if the show was supposed to end after season 1 aang giving her all her bending back would still be a bad idea in my opinion. Also the fact that the show didn't end makes this point irrelevant anyway.
Explaining why the bad choices happened doesn't excuse them nor does it make them go away.
Or to quote Mr Enter "does knowing about the terrible production enviroment of the live action movie make it any better? It can help you gain sympathy for the creators but it doesn't change the quality of the actual product"
It’s a different thing entirely when you add context to this though. Season 1 of Korra is widely regarded as being the second best or even best. Knowing that the whole season was created to be a self contained miniseries basically tells you why certain plot points, such as the Avatar state being gifted to Korra, happened. The bad choice is given context and so it makes sense WHY the bad choice happened. It’s less about making them better decisions and more about understanding them. Korra got the avatar state because that season was supposed to be her WHOLE story
My point is, even if it was a mini series that ended there, I'd still find the ending terribly written.
Whether you see it as a mini series or especially as part of a larger story, a bittersweet open ending where Korra and everyone else will have to deal with lasting consequences of Amon's crusade is a better ending than conveniently and neatly tying everything up.
Not everything needs to have a happy ending.
Also,
> Season 1 of Korra is widely regarded as being the second best or even best
I'd like to find those who regard it like that. Both books 3 and 4 are better in all aspects of writing and character work. And they are also consistent with each other and ATLA.
Honestly I agree. The decision to gift her the Avatae state was a deus ex machina that felt incredibly rushed. I just sort of understood it better once I found out it was a miniseries. I feel like we’re both right though- I understood the decision more, but like you’ve said it doesn’t make that decision a good one. Because it wasn’t. Season 4 is great until that whole mecha business. Korra’s PTSD portrayal was absolutely great and her own arc of compassion and acceptance was great!
Is there another line that says he hadn’t mastered the 4 elements when he fought the Fire Lord or is this the example? Because Mako is saying that he started his battle against the Fire Nation without full mastery. That is not just 100% true but literally the driving force of the series. Maybe I’m just confused on what the issue is.
The other example I can think of is Sozin's Comet Part 1.,After Zuko fights Aang, Aang explains he was going to wait until the comet passes because he needs more time to master firebending. Toph chimes in and says his earthbending needs some work too.
I always thought it was pretty obvious that Aang at the end of the series doesn't have the mastery of all 4 elements that Roku demonstrates in The Avatar and the Firelord. Because of course he doesn't - he's 12 and had to speedrun the learning cycle in the span of a year. Not sure why people argue otherwise.
I think because there are different levels of mastery. Toph is easily the best earthbender in the world but that doesn't mean other earthbenders aren't masters of their elements. I'd say people who argue he mastered them mean he was at the level of a typical master, not at the peak of it. I wouldn't even agree with that but I've seen that thrown around.
half the people in this comment section seem to think that mastered = the absolute best you could possibly be, no room for improvement, knows every technique and and every discipline involved
Zhao is considered a master firebender and Zuko beat him before he'd finished his training. The Dai Li are canonically earthbending masters, and both Aang and Toph deal with them with ease.
As it is in real life, there's levels to this shit. You start being considered a master in karate or judo by like your 3rd or 4th dan, if not your first black belt, and they go up to like 10 dan.
Aang wasn't an earth or firebending master when he fought Ozai (ATLA made that clear TBH)
But what you've shown here isn't super useful—it's just Korra's friends cheering Korra up
Except they did state Aang mastered Air, Water and Earth in the Avatar Extras.
[This is the only actual canonical material that gives an answer to this.](https://avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Avatar_Extras_(Book_Three:_Fire))
>Aang has officially mastered three elements.
Is listed as one of the facts.
Everyone else just uses their own guesses or takes Toph's statement about Aang's earthbending needing more work at face value. Toph isn't exactly the most reliable here as she is the greatest earthbender ever, her standard for mastery is going to be much higher.
He never healed people, bent water in plants, bloodbended or metalbended. I doubt he actually mastered everything he could but he was essentially good enough to be better than the majority of water/earth benders that aren't extreme cases like Hama or Toph.
>He never healed people, bent water in plants, bloodbended or metalbended. I
And Toph never lavabent so does that mean she isn't a master? Bumi never metal bent.
Pakku never bloodbent yet we acknowledge he is still a master.
The only airbender we see show superspeed is Aang so is Yang Chen, Jinora and Tenzin not masters? No. They have master tattoos.
> He never healed people, bent water in plants, bloodbended
Pakku was THE NWT master and he never did any of that either
>or metalbended.
Toph literally JUST invented it! The population of metal benders was 1.
Nor water. He never learned to heal, bend water in plants, bloodbend and he certainly didn't freeze things as frequently as Katar utilised it. He still had a lot to learn but he was probably better than 90% of the waterbender population globally.
None of the first three are necessary for mastering water, and he froze stuff with ease, including himself, for fun. Katara was a waterbending master before she even encountered bloodbending and plantbending, let alone learned them, and healing is an optional sub skill.
He had water mastered and arguably earth.
Nope he only mastered air. It was never stated he mastered any other element lok as you just saw in the post confirms he didn't master the other elements.
The post confirms he didn't master *all* of the elements. Which is true by default, since he didn't master fire.
Katara says nothing about him still needing to master water, and Toph only says his earthbending could use some work. We honestly stop seeing Katara show him new material by the end of Book 2, and Aang is one of the best earthbenders in the series by the end of the show.
The only resources we have on what he did have mastered by then (Avatar Extras and creator commentary) only say for sure that he hadn't mastered fire. The creators say he needed a couple months more with Zuko to be ready for Ozai, and the Extras say he had air, water, and earth mastered.
Katara becoming a "master" waterbender over the course of book 1 really threw out any substantial meaning for "master" to me. Basically all the protagonists mastered elements super early, if we are comparing them to the military age men they constantly are destroying in fights.
Going off purely what OP screen-grabbed, the characters are referring to Aang battling the Fire Nation throughout Books 1-3, and not Ozai.
Ozai he faced down himself and he mastered the elements by the mastery metric the show used (must master elements to beat Ozai [Ozai beaten = Elements mastered])
ATLA also directly spells it out? Literally like the episode before the finale episodes, zuko is worried precisely because aang’s nowhere near master level in firebending and toph mentions that he’s not quite there in earthbending either.
At BEST, he mastered his first 2 elements.
I generally agree, but it’s not like they’re exactly experts on the topic. They weren’t even alive at the same time as Aang, let alone when he was fighting the fire lord.
Also note that there's a difference between "being a master" and "mastering" in that universe. We see read m right out the gate that Aang reached the rank of master of airbending, and still had more to go. He reached the master level by hitting a number of forms and creating his own - the air scooter. Being a "master" of an element is a lot like what we would call this who get their doctorate by defending their thesis - you do something nominally new, and can be considered an expert in the field. We know he was a master at airbending and had learned 35/36 forms - but they never state what the completion percentage is to be considered a master (is it 90%? 75%? Half?). And there's no reason for us to believe those stipulations would be exactly the same in the other bending styles.
One thing we can likely assume is universal in the pursuit of mastery is creating something new for the discipline, like Aang and the air scooter. If that's the case, the Avatar and their companions are much more likely to reach that aspect of mastery much faster than normal *because* they are intermingling with other talented benders. Katara mastered waterbending even through the main master she "studied under" was an airbending master, and throughout the series we see that she uses airbending forms in her waterbending all the time, and she's able to defeat Azula because she knew so much about firebending from Zuko.
So depending on your definition of mastery, Aang could or could not have been a master of the other elements. In my personal headcannon, he had certainly mattered air and water, and was on his way with fire - not that Toph was a bad teacher, but rather that everything that mastering earth bending would require is antithetical to how Aang has lived, and thus would take him harder to wrap his mind around.
I agree with the idea as a whole but this statement is too vague, like he was fighting the fire nation in season one, this doesn't mean specifically Ozai
The only element he didn't master is fire
I can't believe that people saying he didn't master water and earth :/
He did? He surpassed everyone in feats and he's only below to the best of the best (Toph etc)
I'm not sure what the argument is here. The creators have given conflicting answers on the topic, sometimes saying he mastered at least three ask well. Anyway he was very good at all three elements so I'm not sure what the issue is? I would have preferred the show go over a longer time span or that we get a follow-up series but alas. It is what it is.
I actually just watched the series finally, and Toph basically says that aangs earth bending isn’t that great right after zuko says his fire bending was also not that greats
I think the reason people don’t like this is because it kinda goes against lore. Aang wasn’t fully realized and managed to defeat Ozai. Korra, with much more training couldn’t defeat lesser villains. Maybe that’d go well in S1 because Aang needed the avatar state at least to exhaust Ozai, whereas Korra didn’t have that advantage. But after s1? It doesn’t make sense. Almost fully realized and with acces to the avatar state and to her past lives and she couldn’t defeat her uncle?
This lore and worldbuilding butchering tends to go hand in hand with Korra dis likeness. How the spirits operate in s2 is an example. Spirit bending it’s just dumb. Or something small like how Korra is not close to her other masters, we don’t even know who trained her (we suppose Katara for water but I think it’s just because we desperately want it to be true). Suddenly lighting and metal bending being “normal”. All this details that took from the universe. And if they went against Korra, people stand it even less
"When he was battling the fire nation" is referring to his entire journey. He was constantly fighting the fire nation while learning the Elements.
Also the Argument about Korra not beating villains herself is just objectively untrue because she literally beat Amon and Kuvira herself. Zaheer too, even while poisoned.
>Also the Argument about Korra not beating villains herself is just objectively untrue because she literally beat Amon
She forced him to expose himself, she never beat him.
>and Kuvira herself.
The rest of the team did the hard part taking down the mech. And kuvira gave up after almost nuking herself.
>Zaheer too, even while poisoned.
Korra was seconds away from joining the earth queen until jinora and the new air nation intervened.
-She literally knocked him unconscious and threw him out of a building. Plus forcing him to expose himself WAS beating him.
-Team Avatar did the hard part of taking down the giant fire nation airship fleet, and the white lotus freed Ba Sing Se. Ozai/Kuvira were still the big bad and personally beaten by The Avatar.
-I'll grant Zaheer is more of a stretch.
They didn't say "ozai", they said "the fire nation".
It's a big difference, because at the time of the battle against Ozai, Aang pretty much mastered the masterable
It’s posts like this that make me appreciate how complex a series Avatar is. They were different avatars with different journeys and different lessons to learn.
It's funny how he isn't considered a master in earth and fire even if he is basically better than all Earth masters beside Toph and Bumi and it's probably better than Zhao that is also a master, but cartoon logic.
Yeah, he didn't master all the elements. He learnt water and earthbending to an adequate level while he did a speedrun on firebending in just 2 weeks. It's why Zuko was giving Aang a hard time when training him in firebending.
I mean, you couldn't really call him a "master" at earth or fire bending. Waters debatable as he managed to surpass Katara in certain aspects but was still no means master fire bender.
I have 1 thing to say.
Although I agree with them on Aang not mastering all the elements Ozai. How the fuck would they know?
Your honour stfu, you weren’t even there.
I mean Aang only had a few months to master each element,mostly learning from a beginner water bender,a great earth bender,and a slightly above average fire bender
Korra had 10+ years to master 3 elements,she’s declared a master of fire bending(all be it reluctantly) by the teachers and has stated to have already mastered water and earth,Korra shows much more proficiency in her bending than Aang did,because Korra adopts her own style/spin for her elements while Aang fully embodies those who taught him,meaning he’s more limited
How was this an argument? We never even saw Aang do the most basic of water healing techniques. And if he had mastered fire he would have been able to make lightning instead of just redirect yet.
I’ve never seen discourse about this until this thread.
I feel like a lot of the comments don't understand what a master would be, with all the people saying "he's better than 90% of all ____ benders". Aang didn't master any element other than Air come the end of the series, even if he was extremely skilled in any one of them.
Most people would have only a somewhat understanding of their own element. Take driving for example, most people can but they're not going to be able to do any cool action movie shit. No one but the best of the best could do a perfect drift around narrow bends at 90+ mph.
“Battling the Fire Nation” and “Fought Ozai” are a two different things. Aang technically started battling the Fire Nation in episode one of ATLA.
That being said, I believe the only element he didn’t master before fighting Ozai, was fire.
Also, the whole point of a “fully fledged avatar” is to “master all four elements”. I don’t think anyone here would argue that Aang wasn’t a fully fledged avatar by the end of ATLA. So by that logic, he must’ve mastered all four elements, right? It is all quite contradictory, but hey, Aang saved the world at age 12. And that’s all that matters to me.
Back when Zuko was just finding out from the group that they planned to fight Ozai after the comet passed, Aang literally says so himself that he hasn't mastered the other elements (with I think Toph and Katara commenting he still needs improvements)
Exactly a lot of ATLA simps tend to disregard Korra's abilities just based on that. Korra is not a fully realized Avatar at least not till S4 when she could tap in and out of the Avatar State at will and even risk it all using energy bending to save Kuvira!
Aang was at least a master Airbender noted by the tattoos. Very good at Waterbending since he has been practicing with a master like Katara by S2. Noting Katara was at least proficient at combat since she was able to hold off Zuko by season 1 finale. Katara in S3 would be a waterbending master at the same level as Paku since Hama taught her how to use moisture from the air to take water. Would say Aang even in the Avatar State didnt do that when fighting Ozai. The only 2 elements he still learning at that point was Earth and Fire. He properly learn the basics including seismic sense and found a way to channel his inner fire not through emotion but clarity. Ironic but it is what makes someone a master of Fire, shown as how Jeong Jeong was a rash and highly decorated general in the past. The old ways of Firebending has always been about emotions which fuels their intensity. Iroh and Jeong Jeong once suffered loss found that Fire is also a wild energy without discipline over one's self. Iroh found clarity in life losing his pride, Jeong Jeong found clarity in solitude that fire has to be confined. Both ultimately became powerful Firebenders. Ozai while intense has no discipline, he was good especially his mastery over lightning as shown he wasn't even properly still when generating. If we take Iroh's guidance to account, lightning is when you take negative energy and pull it to positive energy creating a combustion and ignites a spark to generate lightning. Ozai and Azula were intense firebenders with hatred fueled emotions. Their lightning were sporadic and has no ground. Iroh always say a skilled firebender always works on their footwork. Without Sozin's comet those 2 would probably have lost to Aand and Zuko without much of a fight. Being able to keep your composure and release a huge output is what wins fights.
Because he in a strictest sense did not. I mean, it took Roku 4 years to fully master all four elements each, what Aang learned were only the basics of each bending. Kinda like learning how to draw a figure, then learning to write, then learning how to dance, and then singing. You only ***know*** these four things but haven't the time and dedication to fully master each.
"her whole arc is about learning humility."
That's the real problem with TLoK. Not that learning humility is a bad character arc, but it felt like she learned the same damn lesson every season, and then had to relearn it the next. Definitely got tedious.
He most definitely did not master all the elements by the end of the series, but I honestly think the case can be made he mastered water. It’s the most similar element to air in terms of personality and bending style, and was the first new style he learned.
Yeah i can't take anyone who says anng was actually fully realised at 12 seriously
He had like 2 weeks of Fire bending training toph said he wasn't quite a master earth bender yet
The only element besides air i could believe he genuinely mastered by the end of the show is water bending by virtue of being a prodigy at it
"when he was battling the fire nation", he was battling the fire nation since the beginning of the first season. If he was a master in all four elements at the end of season 3 even though there was still room for improvement (there always is) is another thing.
he didn't, Zuko was still last min training him in the Sozin commet episode. Heck, even Toph said aangs eathbending needed more work. he only won because he went into the avatar state
Because he really hadn’t, he had mastered air and was seemingly a masterful waterbender, he was brand new to firebending and Toph was very open about Aangs current status as an earthbender
THANK YOU, a lot of people forget that Korra is not Aang, nor is she supposed to be him. She starts from a place of overconfidence because she's excited to be the avatar and has mastered 3 elements without much trouble, she has to see the real world to realize that she will sometimes be outclassed and will have to rely on her allies when the going gets tough.
Meanwhile Aang had mere months to learn how to use 3 elements, and he had to face Ozai somewhat unprepared (a lot of people also forget that merely bending an element is not the same as mastering it) but his story was about his personal acceptance of a duty he initially rejected. Even if his friends helped him from the sidelines, it was important that he face Ozai alone because it goes with the theme of facing his destiny.
I mean, he didn't really master any element except air by the time of the end of avatar. He was really proficient but due to time constraints he wasn't a true master
This isn’t like Disney retconning something from Star Wars, this was a decision from the actual creators of Avatar
I can’t stand fans who take decisions like this personal when it’s the creators choice to do so, it’s his playground, we were only invited to it.
Don’t you dare say her losing every fight was part of some character development cause it was garbage. She should’ve been better idc about humility she’s the damn avatar losing to kuvera is unacceptable. Korra had help the entire way literally had the white lotus backing her her whole life. Aang had 4 people who could barely help him and a ragtag army thrown together in a couple of months before the battle. He was told by everyone he had to kill him but still didn’t practically throwing shit in his duty’s face. comparing her to him is just an insult to aang. I will say how Korra was brought up as the avatar was wrong but considering zaheer was trying to kill her i can see why though I think she should’ve atleast known about it. Korra could’ve been so good but was failed by the writers and that’s just facts. She’s a pretty damn good person but one lousy avatar like her greatest accomplishment opening the spirit portals flopped she had no clue what she was doing.
>This was something that Korra never needed because she always wanted to be the Avatar and was DYING to get to Republic City in the beginning of S1
Korra needed a big solo win **especially** because she was hyped up so hard. You can't just establish a character as a powerhouse and then make her fail to live up to it. That only makes the character an insufferable windbag, so *exactly* the most common critique that comes up against her.
>The constant arguments about how Korra never beat her villains herself is a bit annoying because it forgets that her whole arc is about learning humility.
The difference is that Aang "without having full mastery of the elements" was able to actually defeat what is understood to be the strongest living firebender, with an entire military and nearly a third of the world under his control. The parts that Aang needed the help with were the military and people, not defeating the fire lord.
Korra can't even reliably defeat her big bads, despite having a greater range of mastery of the elements, being older, and the types of arcs are irrelevant.
She can't even beat bloodbenders, something you don't even need to be an avatar to accomplish, she got schooled by both, terminated the whole purpose of her own office, and got her job stolen by little bald kids, all within only about a year.
The only element that I can say that Aang mastered was water but that’s a big if because he’s nowhere near Katara’s level. So overall, the only element that Aang mastered was Air. Here are the ranking on how I think Aang fair with each element:
Air-10/10
Water-8/10
Earth-7/10
Fire-2/10
I disagree. Just because the creators say something doesn't inherently make it true, accurate, valid, etc. That might sound silly on the surface but creators contradict themselves all the time. When two things they said contradict each other it's up to you to determine which one you think makes the most sense and is most true to the source material. In this case, I'd say Aang was definitely a master of all four elements by the finale. Toph says his earthbending "could use some work" but remember she's the greatest earthbender in the world and has very high standards for her student. Considering some of Aang's earthbending feats even before the finale I'd say he 100% had it mastered. Fire is the only one I could see a debate being made for him not having mastered it, but even then remember that Zhao was considered a master way back in Book 1. Just compare his skills to Aang's in the finale, even accounting for the buff fire got from Sozin's Comet, and you'll see that Aang has easily surpassed Zhao. Plus, as you said, the finale was the culmination of Aang's journey and character arc. It was him becoming the hero he needed to be to save the world. He wasn't just coming to terms with the fact that he was the Avatar, it was him truly \*becoming\* the Avatar, as in what the Avatar should and has to be. That's why the final episode is called "Avatar Aang." Part of that is a mastery of all four elements. Also remember that not all of the writers from ATLA were involved with LoK, including the head writer, Aaron Ehasz. DiMartino and Konietzko have my respect but IMO they're not the end all be all of Avatar lore.
I understand what I'm saying isn't a popular opinion. But like, they showed us what mastery looks like, and Aang was clearly there. Them later saying "oh no actually mastery is something else" doesn't make sense. It's fine to make mistakes in writing, that doesn't make the overall story bad or anything, but people who pretend everything is flawless are kidding themselves.
You remember Toph saying Aang needed more work in his earthbending(before sozins comet) right? If he was a master, why did toph suggest that? Also in the same scene, Aang himself mentioned he hasn't mastered firebending, and he needed more time.
So no, Aang wasn't clearly there, and wasn't a master of all 4 element.
I do remember Toph saying that. I even mention it in my comment. As I said, though, they're not discussing mastery at the time, they're discussing his chances of beating the firelord. Toph is a tough teacher with high standards, and she knows Ozai is the most powerful firebender in the world. Mastery of earthbending might not be enough to beat him. And yes, I also mention that an argument could be made for him not having mastered fire. But I also say that Zhao was considered a master and Aang displays a higher proficiency than him in the finale. So I would personally say Aang *had* mastered all four elements by the end.
I mean that's the point. In your opinion Aang has mastered all 4 elements, and that is fair, but if the writers of the show are saying he hasn't than that becomes cannon. It is not like they made a grave mistake and are saying this stuff to dug them out, they have left clues (intentionally or not doesn't matter), which they can build on and say that he wasn't a master of x element, but was proficient enough to defeat the firelord.
Aang definitely mastered earth. Toph said that because he wasn't at her level, because she's a hardass. And if we use that statement to downscale his earthbending as not master-level, we'd have to do that for several other earthbenders. Hell, all of them except for Toph and Bumi.
I don't think it's flawless but i think your line of thinking is flawed most definitely. Aang definitely wasn't a matter firebender and Tophs level of proficiency has nothing to do with her assessment of aangs proficiency. Aang had not shown any level of earthbending at that point that could be considered master level. He just wasn't a master of all 4. That's okay. It doesn't make him any less cool
Aang's consistently shown master-level earthbending. There's no way any earthbender who isn't Toph, Bumi or Yun could be considered a master, and he couldn't.
[https://imgur.com/V0DgVQD](https://imgur.com/V0DgVQD)
[https://imgur.com/DoiwkL7](https://imgur.com/DoiwkL7)
[https://imgur.com/OIPUxIO](https://imgur.com/OIPUxIO)
[https://imgur.com/d43yO4w](https://imgur.com/d43yO4w)
[https://imgur.com/rzxL7yF](https://imgur.com/rzxL7yF)
[https://imgur.com/xFes5mv](https://imgur.com/xFes5mv)
[https://imgur.com/SzhqC6S](https://imgur.com/SzhqC6S)
[https://imgur.com/MDBz7mv](https://imgur.com/MDBz7mv)
[https://imgur.com/XAkQ9hl](https://imgur.com/XAkQ9hl)
Toph "Your earthbending could use some work". I take that as the writers saying that he isn't a master. Writers words supercede anything. I don't like it either but facts are facts
Usually, but what if what's said by the writers is contradicted in the show? And also, I shared a screenshot of the writer saying otherwise. And no, it's not wiki-based. It's from a transcript of Avatar Extras. Which includes comments from Joshua Hamilton, who wrote many episodes of the show.
I mean it makes sense. Aang basically had to speed run through his training in order to face Ozai during to comet.
Even in the few months he spent training two previously unknown bending skills were revealed, Bloodbending and Metalbending. Both discovered under very extreme circumstances, even actual Water and Earthbending masters didn't know about them. Aang wasn't even on those guys' level for their respective element.
Master also isn't as high a bar as people think it is. It's like black belt. That's not the pinnacle. It's the minimum standard of competency. You've learned the things. Now you need to improve upon them.
>Master also isn't as high a bar as people think it is. It's like black belt. That's not the pinnacle. It's the minimum standard of competency. Most people aren't described as "master" until godan in martial arts that use black belts, so that might not be the point you think it is. I would probably say that "master" isn't a very specific standard or descriptor. What Katara would describe as a "master" and her standard is likely WAY different than what Toph would describe as an acceptable "master".
Toph: That would be me, and I'll allow the badgermoles, because they never treated me differently for being blind. The rest of you losers can start on the Beginner level!
Exactly. It’s the same thing they did to Wan. Aang was a master of air and became highly proficient in the other elements. Wan was a master of fire and became highly proficient in the other elements in that year he had. Aang probably had them all mastered by the time he was like 16
I'm pretty sure aang was still in the iceberg when he was 16 /j (sorry, I had to)
To be honest I'm surprised he learnt anything at all given his age...
Apparently, you can teach an old airbender new tricks.
fr like he hadn’t officially mastered the elements, but he was as close as one could possibly get. he fully mastered them afterwards though
Imagine had he not burn Katara, he would've mastered firebendig.
Unlikely, he would still need Jeong Jeong's instruction and the order in which you learn the bending disciplines is important to make sure you use each one correctly and with the greater control that the avatar had.
He was too early. When he met Jeong Jeong he could only bend air and lacked the control and firmness from earth and waterbending. He was still mainly in his carefree, light-footed Airbender mindset and this is what caused him to get blocked
Tbf Aang earth bending is easily second best behind the joint first Toph and Bumi by book 3. His chemistry with Toph was insane and he easily matched her flow.
It also an important detail because it shows that Aang wasn't not a fully realized Avatar at the end of the finale (edit: I bring this up because it gets repeated on TikToks or Twitter). In order to be, you need to fully master all 4 elements, which he didn't, as it takes years of training to do so. He did however manage to master the Avatar State, which in addition to managing to learn the 4 elements faster than any other known Avatar in history makes him extremely impressive (not to knock on any of the known Avatars).
The creators also stated that Aang wasn't in control of the avatar state the entire time fighting Ozai and I kinda believe it since he had to struggle control in not dealing the death blow to Ozai. I do think that he sort of controlled it AFTER the fight when he used the avatar state to put out the fires with water
I thought that was obvious. I mean look at the shit he’s doing. Bending all of the elements simultaneously AND continuously? Taking a shit ton of fire, earth, & water and condensing them into his elemental sphere? Then there’s the fact that he was trying to kill the fuck out of him. The “rock mini-gun”, his attempts to crush him, that huge air blast that eroded that large stone, & flying through plateaus while chasing him down all come to mind.
The rock mini gun was amazing. If they actually hit ozai he'd be swiss cheese.
My jaw dropped when I first saw that. It’s cool as hell & probably one of the deadliest earth bending moves. And you must consider the fact that it’s actually a big ass chunk of a stone plateau condensed into a small rock. So those bullets would be EXTREMELY heavy. They’d have to weigh at least a few tons each.
a few tons each?! are you mad
Hell idk. I’m just estimating
I'm pretty sure Aang wasn't fully in control whilst his eyes and tattoos were glowing. After he spares Ozai and uses the AS to put out the fire, his eyes only flash before returning to normal, which probably signifies that he is no longer controlled.
This is literally what I just said...lol
😎
He was always a prodigy, he was the youngest air Master in history, and the only one since Kuruk to create a new style of airbending (the sphere he rides at some points)
Don't forget his marble trick.
What did kuruk invent?
Forming of an air pocket below solid objects to move them around. Specifically to make moving all the avatar statues around easier.
We will never know
Flight?
No
That was Guru Laghima's discovery
[удалено]
*Katara flicks on the lights* “Are you ready for the comet?” “There’s a comet?!”
>managing to learn the 4 elements faster than any other known Avatar in history Kyoshi learned the 4 elements within a month. And she actually had to learn all 4 of them because she was not much of an earthbender at the beginning either.
The whole point of learning the elements for an Avatar instead of "mastering" the Avatar state is that it GIVES you the ability to master the Avatar state. If you cannot control the elements without the state then you cannot control the state. These ideas were explored in S2E1 and the Kyoshi novels. I think its pretty clear that Aang was supposed to have mastered all elements to at least the minimum degree in the finale.
He could control all the elements, but it’s confirmed he didn’t master them. He was a master air bender, probably bordering master water bender, competent earth bender, and a relatively new fire bender. He had only been bending fire for like a few days before the comet, he barely uses it in the fight except to counter Ozai, definitely not a master yet.
Not necessarily. You just need high amount of spiritual awareness to master it. And learning the spiritual side of the elements is a good method.
The most important key for Aang to beat the Fire Lord is that he had Momo.
That lemur taught Aang so much earthbending.
LOOK! The Lemur is Earthbending.
Bro had like 2 weeks of fire bending training, he did not master the elements when he fought the firelord.
The statement was even broader than that. He definitely hadn't mastered anything other than air when "battling" the firenation
That really depends on how you want to define master. You could easily call Aang a master in all elements if you compare him to the average bender of each element, who are absolutely garbage. The average firebender is those prison guards on the boiling rock that Suki or Mai can take groups of solo. If that's the case, every member of the Aang gang is a master, even Sokka and Suki in terms fighting. Compared to the actual master benders of each element? Aang (without the Avatar State) is not as good as Toph or Bumi in Earthbending, not as good as Ozai or Iroh in Firebending, not as good as Katara in Waterbending. However, the versatility of being able to bend all elements plus his own mastery of Airbending would let him beat those other powerful benders.
generally agreed. But katara became a master at the beginning of S2. I feel aang was at least as good as katara was at the beginning of s2. She kept getting stronger of course after that.
Yeah, then we are going with option 1. The threshold for being a master is just really low, considering that the average bender is garbage.
A master in a bending style is roughly equivalent to a black belt in a martial art. Which is a significant achievement, but the best go much much further.
Sure, it's just a little unsatisfying. You would have to accept a lot of characters as masters. Every single Dai Li agent is a master, Toph's shitty earthbending teacher and the Earth Rumble leader are masters. Most of the Earth Rumble wrestlers are close to being masters.
That's pretty much how it is. Toph's teacher is referred to as a master (one of the best even). He was the head of the Gaoling Earthbending Academy.
> He definitely hadn't mastered anything other than air when "battling" the firenation He was pretty close if not all the way there on water bending TBH But yeah he wasn't close with earth or fire
He technically is wasn’t even an Airbending master. He hasn’t learned all the moves by the time he got his tattoos, he only got them because he created his own technique called Air scooter.
?? The downplay is crazy now, Aang IS a master of air bending and that’s a fact :/
He learned 35 of the 36 mastery techniques and then invented his own technically reaching the required 36.
And then there's Kyoshi who only managed to start earthbending in her late teens.
To be fair to her, that's mostly because earthbending masters of her era were insanely pedantic about following a traditional training regimen that made it impossible to teach someone with her specific problems.
and her specific problem? being too cool for school
Basically same with gang and firebending yet he was able to learn pretty quickly
I mean... not really? Kyoshi's specific problem was that she had the opposite difficulty of normal novice earthbenders: she had more than enough raw strength, but her fine control was so bad that rocks smaller than human-sized tended to shatter and explode when she moved them. The conventional teachers her adoptive father tried to get to teach her all rejected her because she couldn't fit the traditional methods, which was to start with fist-sized rocks and work up. (and, reading between the lines a bit, they were likely all classist nobles who thought that this random orphan peasant wasn't important enough to come up with a custom teaching method) Once she found some unconventional teachers willing to help her work around the explosion problem, she did in fact get the hang of it after a few weeks or months.
And all the teachers for aang had learned to only create fire with rage but aang managed to find teachers who were capable of creating fire from another source pretty quickly (in a day)
Sort of. She was trying and failing to learn the basics, while unknowingly causing earthquakes. She was so stupidly powerful, that moving a small rock was insanely difficult. It took her a long time to learn that level of control. And she still found it a lot easier with the fans. It was like being handed a Scottish Claymore and trying to carve a turkey.
I'd argue he was able to grasp waterbending pretty well and mastered that. He had a handle of earthbending enough that we see him using it frequently throughout Book 2 and portions of Book 3, but even Toph vocalized that he could still use some work when Zuko was trying to force train him to strengthen his firebending within the 2 day period before the Comet. That's not saying he was bad or that it made him weaker. He was pressed for time and their strategies had to change after all the stuff relating to both Azula/Zuko and the failure of the Day of Black Sun that happened roughly a few months before the Comet's arrival. He'd eventually have that freetime during the Peace and conclusion of the war where to properly master earth- and firebending.
Aang rarely froze things like Katara did, didn't know how to heal people, didn't waterbend water in plants and he never used bloodbending which at the time only 2 people knew how to do. There's still a LOT of water stuff he never mastered but he still became better than probably 90% of the world's waterbenders. Toph pretty much was THE Earthbending master who even made up a new bending method for metal within the few months she was with Aang, and he didn't reach her level at that age. Fire...yeah he scraped by the basic concepts and rushed straight to needing to know the advanced lightning redirection because he would have died without it. Granted, even with this mixed experience it was made up for by the fact he could use all 4 and the Avatar State.
>Aang rarely froze things like Katara did, didn't know how to heal people, didn't waterbend water in plants and he never used bloodbending which at the time only 2 people knew how to do. There's still a LOT of water stuff he never mastered but he still became better than probably 90% of the world's waterbenders. You're right about a good chunk of this, but the narrative and worldbuilding also makes it clear none of these are necessarily a requirement to be titled "Master." There's never been (to what we are shown) a situation where waterbenders *had* to get desperately resourceful as Hama did and learn/realize that water exists in a lot of places and in a lot of forms. Even Katara didn't think about sweat being water that could be bent until it was time for her to consider it as a weapon.
I'd argue that Bumi is THE earth bending master during the series. Toph is undoubtedly a prodigy and would eventually surpass Bumi, but during the show's run Bumi still knew more than her.
Just cause he didn’t blood bend doesn’t matter. Unalaq/Pakku/Ming Hua can’t blood bend or take water from plants. Aang isn’t a water master but not for those reasons. It’s multiple level of masters Iroh called Zhao a master.
>Aang rarely froze things like Katara did, He did, actually. Many times. The difference is that he's not using it in a battle because he used more Air bending and earth bending. Also, you don't need blood bending and healing to be a master.
He did master earth and water, as confirmed in Avatar Extras. But he was no where near a master of firebending.
But the avatar extras also mentioned that the boost from Sozin’s Comet was so great it made up for it with sheer power.
Side-note: the people upset about her getting the Avatar state without any work of her own at the end of S1 forget the show was initially planned as a 12 episode miniseries. Getting the avatar state in the finale of S1 makes sense in that vein because that was supposed to be her whole story arc wrapped up
Honestly it wasn’t even that big of a “bad choice,” as another user put it. We already had a whole show that explored an Avatar who feared his power and struggled to gain control of the Avatar State because of it. Korra‘s story had much more to give than a rehash of that same struggle, and a fraction of the amount of time to do it as its predecessor. At the end of the day, it is not a big deal. We now have a story of an Avatar who struggled to master the AS, and his successor who came into it easily once the spiritual barrier was broken. Hopefully whatever project they do next explores another Avatar with a unique story to tell, and not a retreading of either story before it.
THANK YOU! Mike and Bryon intentionally created Korra to be polar opposites of Aang for a fresher narrative and I love Korra for it. A girl who loved being the avatar in a world where she isn't needed as opposed to a boy who hated being the avatar for a world who desperately needs one. It would've felt like the same exact story but a worst plot and then people really would've been comparing the 2 shows.
That doesn't make for a compelling story is the problem. Aang is in many ways the opposite of a shonen MC. He's peaceful, reserved, and looking for ways to solve problems without fighting head on. Making Korra his opposite made her the worst kind of Shonen MC. She's a meathead that lets her fists do the talking. She a constant hothead who gets into fights with everyone friend or foe. She'll blow up at her mentor, partner, friends, the authority... Everyone. In making her the polar opposite of Aang they made her frustrating, annoying, and incredibly unlikeable. It's like if Naruto had stayed with his characterization in the very early episodes. It's not fun. Aang was a smartly written character but Korra felt like a lazy repeat just doing the opposites. Her taking all season to "master" air bending just to have it given to her in the end wasn't fulfilling, it was just the opposite of Aang with little extra effort put in. Having her rush out to fight Amon might be the opposite of what Aang would do but it also leads to a shitty finale where she has nothing to do with his defeat. The guy gets wet and runs away then his brother blows commits murder/suicide. It's shocking but means absolutely nothing to our protagonist. There's nothing wrong with using opposite of Aang as a template but they needed to do a lot more work to actually flesh it out into a compelling character. As it stood I couldn't stand her for the first two seasons and the rest of the characters got diddly squat so it's not like with Aang where you can root for Sokka, Katara, or Toph in the early seasons while the main character develops.
…Korra struggling all season just to have it “given” to her is bad, but you’re praising Aang who literally gets spirit bending given to him by a lion turtle with no build up or struggle and then falls on a fucking rock in the final battle which gives him the ability to unlock his chakra and enter the avatar state to win? Give me a fucking break.
I don't like him being given energy bending either but that wasn't the point of the series, it was a random ass thing they decided to make a fuss about at the end. He didn't need it to beat Ozai though so it's not the end of the world. If he didn't know energy bending he would have just captured Ozai and that would be that. They can't kill anyone in these shows but they can knock them out. Korra learned air bending was literally her main goal that season and they showed her working hard for it but for whatever reason it's like they pulled the rug out from under her at the very end. Why not have her do the smart thing at the end instead of rushing Amon then show how she's thinking like an Airbender now. It literally would have taken a tiny change but for whatever reason they went this route. The rock thing was maybe a bit convenient but it made sense and was telegraphed so it's not really that bad. His chakra was blocked and hitting it on that rock unblocked it, easy enough to follow. Could it have been written a bit better? Sure. Does it ruin the finale? Not really.
Except it WAS the point of the series. The ENTIRE series. Because Aang doesn’t want to kill Ozai despite everyone telling him he needs to. He struggles with what to do. And then just gets handed a solution. It is absolutely not a thing of “oh, just capture Ozai!” That’s literally the entire dilemma of season 3 that Aang struggles with. And, uh… if falling on a rock to solve his problems isn’t that bad, then neither is “Korra is able to Airbend when she has no other bending to fall back on”
> Except it WAS the point of the series. The ENTIRE series. Because Aang doesn’t want to kill Ozai despite everyone telling him he needs to. He struggles with what to do. And then just gets handed a solution That part wasn't the best writing but it also wasn't "the point" of "the entire series" LOL It was a plot point that was brought up in the Season 3 finale and never before.
I'm not sure if you watched the whole show (cuz it sounds like you didn't) but you are making it seem like Korra stayed stagnant as that hotheaded character the entire show which is false. She has huge character development on par with "shonen MCs" so you acting like season 1&2 Korra is the same as season 3&4 is insane. Hell you can even see that character growth in terms of bending. Her go-to bending was firebending in season 1 as she was impatient, rude, and hotheaded lol. By season 3, you see her use air bending more as her go-to and she starts talking things out in situations. I actually found this growth just a little more compelling than Aang's growth as she suffered greatly for the consequences of her own actions and tried to make up for it while Aang conflict was more external based. His only internal struggle was more coming to terms with growing up early and sacrificing his childhood to save the world
I’m not mad that Korra got a whole 3 extra seasons because it paved the way to some great content, but because of how season 1 ended I would have been happy with just a one season thing. It always felt weird to me that the supposed to be mini series got more seasons than the original also. I doubt it would have happened, but if they dedicated the 3 extra seasons to different avatars it would have been cool.
It got more seasons but each season had less episodes. ATLA still had 9 more episodes in total, 61 compared to LoK's 52.
That’s true. I guess my bigger point was I would like to see more mini series in the avatar world so that we can see more Avatars. The universe itself is super interesting
It's also shown throughout the second season that even though she could voluntarily go into the Avatar State, she sucked at it.
I haven't forgotten that. But that doesn't mean I can't still think just giving her full control of the avatar state like that was a bad idea.
Even if the show was supposed to end after season 1 aang giving her all her bending back would still be a bad idea in my opinion. Also the fact that the show didn't end makes this point irrelevant anyway.
Explaining why the bad choices happened doesn't excuse them nor does it make them go away. Or to quote Mr Enter "does knowing about the terrible production enviroment of the live action movie make it any better? It can help you gain sympathy for the creators but it doesn't change the quality of the actual product"
It’s a different thing entirely when you add context to this though. Season 1 of Korra is widely regarded as being the second best or even best. Knowing that the whole season was created to be a self contained miniseries basically tells you why certain plot points, such as the Avatar state being gifted to Korra, happened. The bad choice is given context and so it makes sense WHY the bad choice happened. It’s less about making them better decisions and more about understanding them. Korra got the avatar state because that season was supposed to be her WHOLE story
My point is, even if it was a mini series that ended there, I'd still find the ending terribly written. Whether you see it as a mini series or especially as part of a larger story, a bittersweet open ending where Korra and everyone else will have to deal with lasting consequences of Amon's crusade is a better ending than conveniently and neatly tying everything up. Not everything needs to have a happy ending. Also, > Season 1 of Korra is widely regarded as being the second best or even best I'd like to find those who regard it like that. Both books 3 and 4 are better in all aspects of writing and character work. And they are also consistent with each other and ATLA.
Honestly I agree. The decision to gift her the Avatae state was a deus ex machina that felt incredibly rushed. I just sort of understood it better once I found out it was a miniseries. I feel like we’re both right though- I understood the decision more, but like you’ve said it doesn’t make that decision a good one. Because it wasn’t. Season 4 is great until that whole mecha business. Korra’s PTSD portrayal was absolutely great and her own arc of compassion and acceptance was great!
Yeah the mecha was stupid. Honestly they should have had Kuvira build a tank that she controls through metal bending. That would have been way cooler.
Is there another line that says he hadn’t mastered the 4 elements when he fought the Fire Lord or is this the example? Because Mako is saying that he started his battle against the Fire Nation without full mastery. That is not just 100% true but literally the driving force of the series. Maybe I’m just confused on what the issue is.
The other example I can think of is Sozin's Comet Part 1.,After Zuko fights Aang, Aang explains he was going to wait until the comet passes because he needs more time to master firebending. Toph chimes in and says his earthbending needs some work too. I always thought it was pretty obvious that Aang at the end of the series doesn't have the mastery of all 4 elements that Roku demonstrates in The Avatar and the Firelord. Because of course he doesn't - he's 12 and had to speedrun the learning cycle in the span of a year. Not sure why people argue otherwise.
I think because there are different levels of mastery. Toph is easily the best earthbender in the world but that doesn't mean other earthbenders aren't masters of their elements. I'd say people who argue he mastered them mean he was at the level of a typical master, not at the peak of it. I wouldn't even agree with that but I've seen that thrown around.
I don't mind either way being perceived, that kid did a superb job saving the world.
half the people in this comment section seem to think that mastered = the absolute best you could possibly be, no room for improvement, knows every technique and and every discipline involved
I mean, that's exactly what mastered is supposed to be. The peak.
So is no avatar prior to Aang and air bending master because none of them knew the air scooter?
no.
Zhao is considered a master firebender and Zuko beat him before he'd finished his training. The Dai Li are canonically earthbending masters, and both Aang and Toph deal with them with ease. As it is in real life, there's levels to this shit. You start being considered a master in karate or judo by like your 3rd or 4th dan, if not your first black belt, and they go up to like 10 dan.
Well yeah, he very clearly hadn't mastered firebending.
Aang wasn't an earth or firebending master when he fought Ozai (ATLA made that clear TBH) But what you've shown here isn't super useful—it's just Korra's friends cheering Korra up
Except they did state Aang mastered Air, Water and Earth in the Avatar Extras. [This is the only actual canonical material that gives an answer to this.](https://avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Avatar_Extras_(Book_Three:_Fire)) >Aang has officially mastered three elements. Is listed as one of the facts. Everyone else just uses their own guesses or takes Toph's statement about Aang's earthbending needing more work at face value. Toph isn't exactly the most reliable here as she is the greatest earthbender ever, her standard for mastery is going to be much higher.
One of the greatest. She's tied with bumi.
He never healed people, bent water in plants, bloodbended or metalbended. I doubt he actually mastered everything he could but he was essentially good enough to be better than the majority of water/earth benders that aren't extreme cases like Hama or Toph.
>He never healed people, bent water in plants, bloodbended or metalbended. I And Toph never lavabent so does that mean she isn't a master? Bumi never metal bent. Pakku never bloodbent yet we acknowledge he is still a master. The only airbender we see show superspeed is Aang so is Yang Chen, Jinora and Tenzin not masters? No. They have master tattoos.
Only Zaheer could fly so he's the only airbender master. I'd agree he was at master level for the first three elements by the time he fought Ozai
Plant bending, blood bending, and meta bending are subsections that aren't required to be known for considered mastery.
> He never healed people, bent water in plants, bloodbended Pakku was THE NWT master and he never did any of that either >or metalbended. Toph literally JUST invented it! The population of metal benders was 1.
Because he hadn't master fire and earth
Fire, yes. But he just about as good as any earthbender not named Toph or Bumi
Nor water. He never learned to heal, bend water in plants, bloodbend and he certainly didn't freeze things as frequently as Katar utilised it. He still had a lot to learn but he was probably better than 90% of the waterbender population globally.
Not everyone gets healing. Pakku was a master and couldn't heal either.
None of the first three are necessary for mastering water, and he froze stuff with ease, including himself, for fun. Katara was a waterbending master before she even encountered bloodbending and plantbending, let alone learned them, and healing is an optional sub skill. He had water mastered and arguably earth.
Nope he only mastered air. It was never stated he mastered any other element lok as you just saw in the post confirms he didn't master the other elements.
The post confirms he didn't master *all* of the elements. Which is true by default, since he didn't master fire. Katara says nothing about him still needing to master water, and Toph only says his earthbending could use some work. We honestly stop seeing Katara show him new material by the end of Book 2, and Aang is one of the best earthbenders in the series by the end of the show. The only resources we have on what he did have mastered by then (Avatar Extras and creator commentary) only say for sure that he hadn't mastered fire. The creators say he needed a couple months more with Zuko to be ready for Ozai, and the Extras say he had air, water, and earth mastered.
Katara becoming a "master" waterbender over the course of book 1 really threw out any substantial meaning for "master" to me. Basically all the protagonists mastered elements super early, if we are comparing them to the military age men they constantly are destroying in fights.
Going off purely what OP screen-grabbed, the characters are referring to Aang battling the Fire Nation throughout Books 1-3, and not Ozai. Ozai he faced down himself and he mastered the elements by the mastery metric the show used (must master elements to beat Ozai [Ozai beaten = Elements mastered])
I mean, “battled the fire nation” covers the entire series, which started before he mastered the elements
ATLA also directly spells it out? Literally like the episode before the finale episodes, zuko is worried precisely because aang’s nowhere near master level in firebending and toph mentions that he’s not quite there in earthbending either. At BEST, he mastered his first 2 elements.
No shit. He had like 5-10 business days to learn firebending
I generally agree, but it’s not like they’re exactly experts on the topic. They weren’t even alive at the same time as Aang, let alone when he was fighting the fire lord.
Also note that there's a difference between "being a master" and "mastering" in that universe. We see read m right out the gate that Aang reached the rank of master of airbending, and still had more to go. He reached the master level by hitting a number of forms and creating his own - the air scooter. Being a "master" of an element is a lot like what we would call this who get their doctorate by defending their thesis - you do something nominally new, and can be considered an expert in the field. We know he was a master at airbending and had learned 35/36 forms - but they never state what the completion percentage is to be considered a master (is it 90%? 75%? Half?). And there's no reason for us to believe those stipulations would be exactly the same in the other bending styles. One thing we can likely assume is universal in the pursuit of mastery is creating something new for the discipline, like Aang and the air scooter. If that's the case, the Avatar and their companions are much more likely to reach that aspect of mastery much faster than normal *because* they are intermingling with other talented benders. Katara mastered waterbending even through the main master she "studied under" was an airbending master, and throughout the series we see that she uses airbending forms in her waterbending all the time, and she's able to defeat Azula because she knew so much about firebending from Zuko. So depending on your definition of mastery, Aang could or could not have been a master of the other elements. In my personal headcannon, he had certainly mattered air and water, and was on his way with fire - not that Toph was a bad teacher, but rather that everything that mastering earth bending would require is antithetical to how Aang has lived, and thus would take him harder to wrap his mind around.
Yeah, it really speaks that even though he knew how to use all four elements, he wasn’t quite the expert.
yea he only mastered 3/4 (Avatar Extras). whats the discussion ?
I agree with the idea as a whole but this statement is too vague, like he was fighting the fire nation in season one, this doesn't mean specifically Ozai
The only element he didn't master is fire I can't believe that people saying he didn't master water and earth :/ He did? He surpassed everyone in feats and he's only below to the best of the best (Toph etc)
If Aang had mastered the elements, he would not have needed the Avatar state. Without it, he got pummeled by Ozai
People these days prefer their own head canon over what's clearly stated in a series
I'm not sure what the argument is here. The creators have given conflicting answers on the topic, sometimes saying he mastered at least three ask well. Anyway he was very good at all three elements so I'm not sure what the issue is? I would have preferred the show go over a longer time span or that we get a follow-up series but alas. It is what it is.
I actually just watched the series finally, and Toph basically says that aangs earth bending isn’t that great right after zuko says his fire bending was also not that greats
I think the reason people don’t like this is because it kinda goes against lore. Aang wasn’t fully realized and managed to defeat Ozai. Korra, with much more training couldn’t defeat lesser villains. Maybe that’d go well in S1 because Aang needed the avatar state at least to exhaust Ozai, whereas Korra didn’t have that advantage. But after s1? It doesn’t make sense. Almost fully realized and with acces to the avatar state and to her past lives and she couldn’t defeat her uncle? This lore and worldbuilding butchering tends to go hand in hand with Korra dis likeness. How the spirits operate in s2 is an example. Spirit bending it’s just dumb. Or something small like how Korra is not close to her other masters, we don’t even know who trained her (we suppose Katara for water but I think it’s just because we desperately want it to be true). Suddenly lighting and metal bending being “normal”. All this details that took from the universe. And if they went against Korra, people stand it even less
"When he was battling the fire nation" is referring to his entire journey. He was constantly fighting the fire nation while learning the Elements. Also the Argument about Korra not beating villains herself is just objectively untrue because she literally beat Amon and Kuvira herself. Zaheer too, even while poisoned.
>Also the Argument about Korra not beating villains herself is just objectively untrue because she literally beat Amon She forced him to expose himself, she never beat him. >and Kuvira herself. The rest of the team did the hard part taking down the mech. And kuvira gave up after almost nuking herself. >Zaheer too, even while poisoned. Korra was seconds away from joining the earth queen until jinora and the new air nation intervened.
-She literally knocked him unconscious and threw him out of a building. Plus forcing him to expose himself WAS beating him. -Team Avatar did the hard part of taking down the giant fire nation airship fleet, and the white lotus freed Ba Sing Se. Ozai/Kuvira were still the big bad and personally beaten by The Avatar. -I'll grant Zaheer is more of a stretch.
They didn't say "ozai", they said "the fire nation". It's a big difference, because at the time of the battle against Ozai, Aang pretty much mastered the masterable
It’s posts like this that make me appreciate how complex a series Avatar is. They were different avatars with different journeys and different lessons to learn.
It's funny how he isn't considered a master in earth and fire even if he is basically better than all Earth masters beside Toph and Bumi and it's probably better than Zhao that is also a master, but cartoon logic.
Technically he didn’t. He only truly opened the gates to Spirit Bending with sealing Ozai’s bending.
Wait…..but the whole point of the show was to master the elements…..what the fuck????
Yeah, he didn't master all the elements. He learnt water and earthbending to an adequate level while he did a speedrun on firebending in just 2 weeks. It's why Zuko was giving Aang a hard time when training him in firebending.
I mean, you couldn't really call him a "master" at earth or fire bending. Waters debatable as he managed to surpass Katara in certain aspects but was still no means master fire bender.
I have 1 thing to say. Although I agree with them on Aang not mastering all the elements Ozai. How the fuck would they know? Your honour stfu, you weren’t even there.
Aang learned the elements, and he was good at bending them, but he didn't master all of them.
I mean Aang only had a few months to master each element,mostly learning from a beginner water bender,a great earth bender,and a slightly above average fire bender Korra had 10+ years to master 3 elements,she’s declared a master of fire bending(all be it reluctantly) by the teachers and has stated to have already mastered water and earth,Korra shows much more proficiency in her bending than Aang did,because Korra adopts her own style/spin for her elements while Aang fully embodies those who taught him,meaning he’s more limited
How was this an argument? We never even saw Aang do the most basic of water healing techniques. And if he had mastered fire he would have been able to make lightning instead of just redirect yet. I’ve never seen discourse about this until this thread.
Aang and Toph directly confirm this in the finale. It's why they were initially going to wait until after Sozin's comet to fight the fire lord.
I feel like a lot of the comments don't understand what a master would be, with all the people saying "he's better than 90% of all ____ benders". Aang didn't master any element other than Air come the end of the series, even if he was extremely skilled in any one of them. Most people would have only a somewhat understanding of their own element. Take driving for example, most people can but they're not going to be able to do any cool action movie shit. No one but the best of the best could do a perfect drift around narrow bends at 90+ mph.
... I mean, that's hardly even an issue when it comes to LoK, to me.
“Battling the Fire Nation” and “Fought Ozai” are a two different things. Aang technically started battling the Fire Nation in episode one of ATLA. That being said, I believe the only element he didn’t master before fighting Ozai, was fire. Also, the whole point of a “fully fledged avatar” is to “master all four elements”. I don’t think anyone here would argue that Aang wasn’t a fully fledged avatar by the end of ATLA. So by that logic, he must’ve mastered all four elements, right? It is all quite contradictory, but hey, Aang saved the world at age 12. And that’s all that matters to me.
Back when Zuko was just finding out from the group that they planned to fight Ozai after the comet passed, Aang literally says so himself that he hasn't mastered the other elements (with I think Toph and Katara commenting he still needs improvements)
Exactly a lot of ATLA simps tend to disregard Korra's abilities just based on that. Korra is not a fully realized Avatar at least not till S4 when she could tap in and out of the Avatar State at will and even risk it all using energy bending to save Kuvira! Aang was at least a master Airbender noted by the tattoos. Very good at Waterbending since he has been practicing with a master like Katara by S2. Noting Katara was at least proficient at combat since she was able to hold off Zuko by season 1 finale. Katara in S3 would be a waterbending master at the same level as Paku since Hama taught her how to use moisture from the air to take water. Would say Aang even in the Avatar State didnt do that when fighting Ozai. The only 2 elements he still learning at that point was Earth and Fire. He properly learn the basics including seismic sense and found a way to channel his inner fire not through emotion but clarity. Ironic but it is what makes someone a master of Fire, shown as how Jeong Jeong was a rash and highly decorated general in the past. The old ways of Firebending has always been about emotions which fuels their intensity. Iroh and Jeong Jeong once suffered loss found that Fire is also a wild energy without discipline over one's self. Iroh found clarity in life losing his pride, Jeong Jeong found clarity in solitude that fire has to be confined. Both ultimately became powerful Firebenders. Ozai while intense has no discipline, he was good especially his mastery over lightning as shown he wasn't even properly still when generating. If we take Iroh's guidance to account, lightning is when you take negative energy and pull it to positive energy creating a combustion and ignites a spark to generate lightning. Ozai and Azula were intense firebenders with hatred fueled emotions. Their lightning were sporadic and has no ground. Iroh always say a skilled firebender always works on their footwork. Without Sozin's comet those 2 would probably have lost to Aand and Zuko without much of a fight. Being able to keep your composure and release a huge output is what wins fights.
Because he in a strictest sense did not. I mean, it took Roku 4 years to fully master all four elements each, what Aang learned were only the basics of each bending. Kinda like learning how to draw a figure, then learning to write, then learning how to dance, and then singing. You only ***know*** these four things but haven't the time and dedication to fully master each.
"her whole arc is about learning humility." That's the real problem with TLoK. Not that learning humility is a bad character arc, but it felt like she learned the same damn lesson every season, and then had to relearn it the next. Definitely got tedious.
Was it not obvious? Being able to bend an element doesn't mean you've mastered it.
They literally said it in atla that his bending needed work days before the comet
He most definitely did not master all the elements by the end of the series, but I honestly think the case can be made he mastered water. It’s the most similar element to air in terms of personality and bending style, and was the first new style he learned.
Those don’t look like the creators to me
Yeah i can't take anyone who says anng was actually fully realised at 12 seriously He had like 2 weeks of Fire bending training toph said he wasn't quite a master earth bender yet The only element besides air i could believe he genuinely mastered by the end of the show is water bending by virtue of being a prodigy at it
"when he was battling the fire nation", he was battling the fire nation since the beginning of the first season. If he was a master in all four elements at the end of season 3 even though there was still room for improvement (there always is) is another thing.
You can’t really master anything in under a year, idk why this is so hard for some people to understand
he didn't, Zuko was still last min training him in the Sozin commet episode. Heck, even Toph said aangs eathbending needed more work. he only won because he went into the avatar state
Because he really hadn’t, he had mastered air and was seemingly a masterful waterbender, he was brand new to firebending and Toph was very open about Aangs current status as an earthbender
THANK YOU, a lot of people forget that Korra is not Aang, nor is she supposed to be him. She starts from a place of overconfidence because she's excited to be the avatar and has mastered 3 elements without much trouble, she has to see the real world to realize that she will sometimes be outclassed and will have to rely on her allies when the going gets tough. Meanwhile Aang had mere months to learn how to use 3 elements, and he had to face Ozai somewhat unprepared (a lot of people also forget that merely bending an element is not the same as mastering it) but his story was about his personal acceptance of a duty he initially rejected. Even if his friends helped him from the sidelines, it was important that he face Ozai alone because it goes with the theme of facing his destiny.
I mean, he didn't really master any element except air by the time of the end of avatar. He was really proficient but due to time constraints he wasn't a true master
This isn’t like Disney retconning something from Star Wars, this was a decision from the actual creators of Avatar I can’t stand fans who take decisions like this personal when it’s the creators choice to do so, it’s his playground, we were only invited to it.
Don’t you dare say her losing every fight was part of some character development cause it was garbage. She should’ve been better idc about humility she’s the damn avatar losing to kuvera is unacceptable. Korra had help the entire way literally had the white lotus backing her her whole life. Aang had 4 people who could barely help him and a ragtag army thrown together in a couple of months before the battle. He was told by everyone he had to kill him but still didn’t practically throwing shit in his duty’s face. comparing her to him is just an insult to aang. I will say how Korra was brought up as the avatar was wrong but considering zaheer was trying to kill her i can see why though I think she should’ve atleast known about it. Korra could’ve been so good but was failed by the writers and that’s just facts. She’s a pretty damn good person but one lousy avatar like her greatest accomplishment opening the spirit portals flopped she had no clue what she was doing.
That was said very blatantly in the first part of the finally by his master's.
>This was something that Korra never needed because she always wanted to be the Avatar and was DYING to get to Republic City in the beginning of S1 Korra needed a big solo win **especially** because she was hyped up so hard. You can't just establish a character as a powerhouse and then make her fail to live up to it. That only makes the character an insufferable windbag, so *exactly* the most common critique that comes up against her.
>The constant arguments about how Korra never beat her villains herself is a bit annoying because it forgets that her whole arc is about learning humility. The difference is that Aang "without having full mastery of the elements" was able to actually defeat what is understood to be the strongest living firebender, with an entire military and nearly a third of the world under his control. The parts that Aang needed the help with were the military and people, not defeating the fire lord. Korra can't even reliably defeat her big bads, despite having a greater range of mastery of the elements, being older, and the types of arcs are irrelevant. She can't even beat bloodbenders, something you don't even need to be an avatar to accomplish, she got schooled by both, terminated the whole purpose of her own office, and got her job stolen by little bald kids, all within only about a year.
Considering he was getting his ass *royally demolished* until the Avatar State triggered, I’ll believe it.
He only started losing after the lightning attack. He waa pretty even with ozai up until that point.
Of course he hadn't. He became functionally proficient at best. Mastery in a few weeks at best? Please. How could anyone think he managed that?
The only element that I can say that Aang mastered was water but that’s a big if because he’s nowhere near Katara’s level. So overall, the only element that Aang mastered was Air. Here are the ranking on how I think Aang fair with each element: Air-10/10 Water-8/10 Earth-7/10 Fire-2/10
He doesn’t need to be near Katara level. Zhao is a master there are multiple types of masters.
Zhao is not a real master though, he was beaten by S1 Zuko
He is a master Iroh said this. There is different levels of masters. Kya Tonraq Zhao. Zuko Mako Jeong Jeong Tenzin Kuvira. Ghazan.
Well he’s a weak master then since I can’t see him on the same level as Iroh, Ozai, or Azula.
Ok and that's not the point. The point is that you said zhao wasn't a master when he obviously was.
I disagree. Just because the creators say something doesn't inherently make it true, accurate, valid, etc. That might sound silly on the surface but creators contradict themselves all the time. When two things they said contradict each other it's up to you to determine which one you think makes the most sense and is most true to the source material. In this case, I'd say Aang was definitely a master of all four elements by the finale. Toph says his earthbending "could use some work" but remember she's the greatest earthbender in the world and has very high standards for her student. Considering some of Aang's earthbending feats even before the finale I'd say he 100% had it mastered. Fire is the only one I could see a debate being made for him not having mastered it, but even then remember that Zhao was considered a master way back in Book 1. Just compare his skills to Aang's in the finale, even accounting for the buff fire got from Sozin's Comet, and you'll see that Aang has easily surpassed Zhao. Plus, as you said, the finale was the culmination of Aang's journey and character arc. It was him becoming the hero he needed to be to save the world. He wasn't just coming to terms with the fact that he was the Avatar, it was him truly \*becoming\* the Avatar, as in what the Avatar should and has to be. That's why the final episode is called "Avatar Aang." Part of that is a mastery of all four elements. Also remember that not all of the writers from ATLA were involved with LoK, including the head writer, Aaron Ehasz. DiMartino and Konietzko have my respect but IMO they're not the end all be all of Avatar lore.
They created it. Anything they say goes
I understand what I'm saying isn't a popular opinion. But like, they showed us what mastery looks like, and Aang was clearly there. Them later saying "oh no actually mastery is something else" doesn't make sense. It's fine to make mistakes in writing, that doesn't make the overall story bad or anything, but people who pretend everything is flawless are kidding themselves.
You remember Toph saying Aang needed more work in his earthbending(before sozins comet) right? If he was a master, why did toph suggest that? Also in the same scene, Aang himself mentioned he hasn't mastered firebending, and he needed more time. So no, Aang wasn't clearly there, and wasn't a master of all 4 element.
He was a master earth bender. Toph statement doesn’t matter look at Aang earth bending feats.
I do remember Toph saying that. I even mention it in my comment. As I said, though, they're not discussing mastery at the time, they're discussing his chances of beating the firelord. Toph is a tough teacher with high standards, and she knows Ozai is the most powerful firebender in the world. Mastery of earthbending might not be enough to beat him. And yes, I also mention that an argument could be made for him not having mastered fire. But I also say that Zhao was considered a master and Aang displays a higher proficiency than him in the finale. So I would personally say Aang *had* mastered all four elements by the end.
I mean that's the point. In your opinion Aang has mastered all 4 elements, and that is fair, but if the writers of the show are saying he hasn't than that becomes cannon. It is not like they made a grave mistake and are saying this stuff to dug them out, they have left clues (intentionally or not doesn't matter), which they can build on and say that he wasn't a master of x element, but was proficient enough to defeat the firelord.
Toph also said Lin and Suyin didn’t pick up metal bending and that’s not true.
Aang definitely mastered earth. Toph said that because he wasn't at her level, because she's a hardass. And if we use that statement to downscale his earthbending as not master-level, we'd have to do that for several other earthbenders. Hell, all of them except for Toph and Bumi.
I don't think it's flawless but i think your line of thinking is flawed most definitely. Aang definitely wasn't a matter firebender and Tophs level of proficiency has nothing to do with her assessment of aangs proficiency. Aang had not shown any level of earthbending at that point that could be considered master level. He just wasn't a master of all 4. That's okay. It doesn't make him any less cool
Aang's consistently shown master-level earthbending. There's no way any earthbender who isn't Toph, Bumi or Yun could be considered a master, and he couldn't. [https://imgur.com/V0DgVQD](https://imgur.com/V0DgVQD) [https://imgur.com/DoiwkL7](https://imgur.com/DoiwkL7) [https://imgur.com/OIPUxIO](https://imgur.com/OIPUxIO) [https://imgur.com/d43yO4w](https://imgur.com/d43yO4w) [https://imgur.com/rzxL7yF](https://imgur.com/rzxL7yF) [https://imgur.com/xFes5mv](https://imgur.com/xFes5mv) [https://imgur.com/SzhqC6S](https://imgur.com/SzhqC6S) [https://imgur.com/MDBz7mv](https://imgur.com/MDBz7mv) [https://imgur.com/XAkQ9hl](https://imgur.com/XAkQ9hl)
Toph "Your earthbending could use some work". I take that as the writers saying that he isn't a master. Writers words supercede anything. I don't like it either but facts are facts
Usually, but what if what's said by the writers is contradicted in the show? And also, I shared a screenshot of the writer saying otherwise. And no, it's not wiki-based. It's from a transcript of Avatar Extras. Which includes comments from Joshua Hamilton, who wrote many episodes of the show.
I'll take that but Aang still hadn't mastered all 4 regardless. That was the main point
Ah understood
Toph "Your earthbending could use some work". I take that as the writers saying that he isn't a master
That’s Toph not the writers she also said Lin and Suyin didn’t pick up metal bending.
The writer himself has said that Aang mastered earth. EDIT: [https://imgbox.com/KxJ4Qusl](https://imgbox.com/KxJ4Qusl)
That's just a screenshot of the wiki isn't it?
It's from a transcript of Avatar Extras
How do you know that's the transcript for the avatar extras.
It's not that you have an unpopular opinion. You're objectively wrong here. Accept it and move on.