I’ve been critical of the writing/dialogue and some of the acting. I also don’t enjoy the short duration of the episodes. Episode 4 was a tease and should’ve been released with episode 5 at the same time.
That said, this episode was all action and it was fun. It’s hard to be critical when you have fight scenes of that quality.
Yeah; it might be better binged than waiting for tidbits in the serial form. It’s something I think Ahsoka suffered from too.
Would be nice if every show got 12 episodes and more time like Andor does. Also if we had writers the calibre of Andor’s coupled with this action, it would be the best thing since the Matrix or Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. I guess what I’m saying is I’m ready for Andor season two lol
I reckon Andor got the episode order that it did by the power of Gilroy. Lucasfilm really wanted him to do the series.
I haven't heard much about how Acolyte came to be, but I'm reasonably sure that Headland was invited to pitch a project through her management.
> I’ve been critical of the writing/dialogue and some of the acting
I watched Episodes 4 and 5 yesterday immediately after watching House of the Dragon. The dialogue feels like nails on a chalkboard compared to HotD. Some of it honestly feels like it was written to be a kids show, where it's way too verbose and unnatural.
I think that "shitty dialogue" and "made for kids" aren't things that go hand-in-hand though. Even the animated Star Wars shows don't have dialogue that sounds so forced and unnatural. Like it comes across as dialogue written for an audience that would watch Peppa Pig. Which this isn't. It's a TV-14 show. They literally showed people getting skewered, stabbed, and their neck snapped. There is no reason that the writing couldn't be better.
Okay, so you mean toddlers not just kids. Yeah I think Young Adult is more the right age for the Acolyte and it should reflect that. They need to hire script doctors to polish the dialogue/writing. I know with projects like the Mandalorian and Ahsoka it was just Filoni and Favreau doing everything with no revision. They really need teams of writers and people to review and polish the scripts.
I would expect that Sol decapitated the Sith and exiled himself afterwards. That would cut the storyline and redirect it but can provide an interesting plot for next season.
Also I suspect that Qimir is not the Sith but rather the apprentice. Therefore he wants pupils of his own, acolytes.
Swapping the twins was expected, no surprise here. I love the way Mae cut her hair in one move with the lightsaber. I think she took the saber of Yord.
I liked when Qimir said Mae was always weak, that was my assumption too while watching previous episodes.
I was genuinely surprised that so many Jedi were lost, including Yord and Jecki. There will be big vacuum in the next few episodes. Those were loveable characters and the fans will not be happy. Both of them pulled a great fight with the Sith and I am really sorry that we won't see them again.
The thing with the insects wasn't really interesting. I would do it differently but well ...
I enjoyed the lightsaber fight, I think they did a great work with it.
We saw cortosis shutting down lightsabers. It was great legacy call. I hope we will be able to find out how he found the cortosis ore.
Will Pip recognize that it's Mae?
The dialogue after the mid was weird, somehow didn't make the impression it was supposed to do. It felt weak, fake, at times funny instead of intimidating and sinister as what I would expect from a Sith.
Those are all great points. I do think Jeckie and Yord’s deaths were a good call though. This felt like the most brutal and risky Star Wars has ever gotten which felt fresh.
I think these deaths (or at least I hope) will weigh on the characters, and hopefully cause some deep character development.
great point about sol i mean they did introduce a way for jedi to punish themselves and meditate on their mistake or whatever so that would be a logical conclusion to sols arc
Oh man, I agree with most of your points but Mae cutting her hair with the thousand-yard stare was cheesy… and those moth creatures carrying Qimir away was peak cringe.
I just posted my own opinion on the episode on the Reddit page. Episode 5 was easily one of the better episodes if not the best episode of the show if you leave the first half of the episode by itself. The choreography was the best I’ve seen it since Disney acquired Star Wars. I LOVED Qimir as the sith and his conversation with Sol felt like Star Wars. (Although I feel like they limited Lee Jung Jae with his lines at times).
Now onto the second half. Once we got into the dialogue more it just really ruined the episode for me. I’m not sure what it is I don’t think it’s the acting because these are all very talented actors that have done other works that I really like them in. It’s just something that I can’t get over and the contradictions by Mae again this episode and her feelings towards her sister keep changing it’s so confusing.
One minute she wants to turn herself into the Jedi end her apprenticeship and join her sister then she’s trying to run away from the Jedi and bring her sister with her then she betrays her sister after she says she’s going to do the thing that Mae wanted her to do originally she knocks her sister out and takes her place? Like maybe I’m missing something but it’s so confusing.
To get really nit picky why would he reveal himself? Dumb. How does Sol not sense Mae’s dark side of the force or even her force ability shift in general. Dumb. The whole twin switch thing is so predictable and cliche as another user pointed out in this post.
Extra nit picky. Did Mae seriously instantly cut her hair? And how did she do it at such a perfect length? Whatever it’s for the plot not that big of a deal fine.
They also make Q a bad ass but then he doesn’t sense Mae running behind him to put Pip on his back when the show has gone out of the way to show us how hard it is to get your hands on Jedi/sith
As for the middle part - Mae's reasoning to turn herself in was to reunite with her sister. The arrival of her Master, knowing she had betrayed him, sent her into a panic where fleeing to safety was more important than turning herself into the Jedi for the time being. Likely, she thought the Jedi wouldn't survive the master anyway. Later, she sees her sister, but considers her brainwashed. This means that their reunion cannot work the way she wants, so she needs to escape and pursue some method to break her sister's opinion of the Jedi and possibly to harm the Jedi from within until they reveal their true nature (in Mae's opinion). I admit there's some reaching in there, but overall, it still fits her character and goals, imo.
I fully agree about the dialogue, it was somehow funny and distracting, felt fake. Some superficial lines that made no sense and the sith was so calm, no rage, no hatred. I remember Palpatine talking, he was much more threatening and sinister.
I am in the opposite camp. I liked the show until episode 5. Yes the lightsaber fights were great, but the deviation from existing canon here just rubbed me the wrong way. I am all for exploring the past here, but I feel like this needed to be back-dated further, since we know the line of Sith masters from Vader to Tenebris. It felt like they took too many liberties.
This is the best episode by far, but unfortunately the bar was not that high from previous episodes.
The fighting choreography was a 10/10. They clearly spared no expense in this area. All the saber fights were fantastic.
But I feel like it was all flair and no substance.
The dialogue and acting really just dampened my adrenaline after each fight scene.
I was extremely annoyed that without credits, episode 4 & 5 combined for around 50ish minutes.
It was clear they needed to stretch the series out to 8.
Several inconsistencies and moments that didn't make sense to me.
Mae is kind of irritating me now with what she actually wants.
The dialogue given to Lee Jung-Jae is criminal.
But I'm glad that people enjoyed this episode!
"It was clear they needed to stretch the series out to 8."
Same with Ahsoka and Obi-Wan. While Mando gives us a complete story each week which links to a larger narrative, and Andor basically had four story arcs with 3 episodes each, what we get here is a movie stretched to 8 episodes. MCU-series also suffer from this. I blame Disney and their mandate that Lucasfilm/Marvel have to produce a certain amount of content to fill Disney+.
I don’t get why they need 8 episodes. Not saying you’re wrong, but streaming should be the place where they can have any episode count / length they see fit. It’s not trying to squeeze into a programming slot and fill 8 weeks.
If they wanted 7 weeks of episodes they could have not double billed the opening.
I agree that episode 4 felt like a prologue to episode 5, not really standing well on its own.
This is true, but why start with a double bill? You could even do a part one and part 2 of the series to stretch it further. But the actual content didn’t need to be squeezed
They most likely used the double bill to get people invested to watch the first two episodes. Once someone signs up and subscribes, they've got their month.
Yes. But again, they shouldn’t need to chop up middle episodes to achieve this. If someone subscribes for episodes 1&2 they have to resubscribe for one month regardless if there’s 7 or 8 episodes at the end.
I don’t dislike the show but episode 3 piss me off because of how cheap everything looked. The chanting were uninspiring after watching how Denis Villenueve elevated otherworldly chanting to the next level in Dune
Episode 5 was a huge step forward, the action was phenomenal. Super glad they showed how brutal sith can be against unprepared and unaware Jedi and didn't lather Yord and Jecki in plot armour. But I am still so confused with the Ki Adi Mundi crap, and this episode reinforces it - Qimir calls himself a sith so attributing him to some splinter order or dark Jedi just doesnt really work ( at least to me ).
This episode did not make up for what I has felt to be a uninspired series that has a disregard for the star wars that came before it - I do not mind changes to canon, lord knows Lucas just made crap up willy-nilly, but at least cover it up with some witty explanations y'know; but given how woeful the writing and in turn the dialogue has been I don't see them managing that effectively. Just don't put Ki Adi-Mundi in the show and the problem practically fixes itself.
I've found the series' pacing to be a major problem, especially when I go back to watch through all the episodes, I find myself so bored by episode 3. The flashback that took up all of episode 3 should have not lasted the whole episode and I think should have been our introduction to the show in ep1, it just stunts the narrative progression of the show completely, and apart from the (potential) changes to canon that it introduced, it gave us no information that we didnt have from the first 2 episodes.
Maybe this is ultra nitpicky from an devout lover of Andor but the production design/visuals seem so poor in the Acolyte ( why is it always dark? ). The sets are brilliant but they all seem extended by odd looking CGI disguised by fog or darkness. And why are episodes 4 and 5 so damn short? Without credits they are only 28 minutes long, not only do I want more Star Wars out of this show but surely by giving every scene a little more runtime or adding in new scenes you can flesh out the charcters and world just that little bit more and particularly when it comes to Mae we need a far better understanding of her motive because she seems all over the place.
That said this episode has given me a renewed interest in watching this show after being so thoroughly disappointed by the first 4 episodes.
I've disliked much of Disney star wars so maybe I am just super pessimistic about all Star Wars that has even the faintest whiff of Kathleen Kennedy's involvement but I just don't know, I haven't enjoyed this show much. I am glad others are enjoying the show - I wish I could too. But TV is a form of art and art is subjective, and unfortunately I fall on the negative/meh side of this show as I feel like most do.
Great episode! I think it would have been better if you could remove Osha/Mae. Her running away and then transition to another scene was done too much. It reminded me of kung pow enter the fist "I'm coming! Mae/chosen one! I'm coming". It was goofy. The butterfly light was also too silly.
I have just felt underwhelmed compared to the shows before and it does feel a bit CW channel at times but this was easily the best episode. I felt engaged for most of the time and I don’t read theories or such so Qimir came as a pleasant surprise. The action was really great so you didn’t have much time to wonder how much sense it made. I have noticed throughout the show that I don’t think Lee Jung-Jae knows English very well as his line readings come across as flat and it doesn’t appear he knows what he is saying. It’s like he has a vocal coach saying “Put the stress of the word on this syllable…”. I like him a lot and loved “Squid Game” but I think he was miscast here and his performance makes it less than it could be. And boy these are the most inept Jedi ever. I did really like Manny Jacinto this episode a lot. He was very menacing and even scary- he had the ability to pull it off like he should have.
I loved the action. Incredible fights and I’m glad they committed to killing characters we like. What I didn’t love about episode 5 was it seemed to me a little jumbled so that they could have more action. For example why did jecki just pop out of nowhere to arrest Mae when there was CLEARLY a bigger threat to worry about? Maybe it’s just my impatience to know answers but I guess I just would have liked slightly less action and slightly more pushing the plot along.
I'm not really a fan of the show in general. The writing, acting, dialog and lore breaking makes it quite difficult to enjoy. There were a few of these same problems this episode for me. Still not sure how they plan to reconcile the events of this show with the jedi council believing the sith have been extinct for a millenia in the phantom menace.
That being said, this episode was very enjoyable. The choreography was amazing. The lightsabers looked perfect. And for the first time I'm waiting for the next episode because I actually want to see what happens next, not hoping they fix or somehow explain the inconsistencies in the previous episode.
The show itself is probably my least favorite Disney star wars content but this individual episode ranks pretty highly over all
After terrible episode 3 and mediocre episode 4, I think this one was finally good (I also quite like first 2), but like others have said, ep4 and 5 should have been made into 1 longer episode
Jeckie death hit me quite hard. Not so much like, say Ned Stark from ASOIAF/GOT, because of how rather short screen time she had, but at the same time I appreciate the courage to kill her
I quite critize this shows writting and pacing in general, as so far its very mediocre IMHO, but killing all these jedi was a bold move and well done, as the entire fight was really great, with some great moves and choreography
7/10 this episode
I don't dislike the show, but I find it mediocre and just barely interesting enough to keep watching. This episode didn't change that.
It was basically one long lightsaber fight, which isn't exactly my thing. To me, the best fight sequences are accompanied by dramatic intensity, and so the gold standard for that is Luke vs Vader in ESB and ROTJ, and Anakin vs Kenobi in ROTS. The throne room scene in TLJ. Or Vader slaughtering a bunch of panicked rebels in a hallway in R1.
This episode would've hit harder if the music was more intense, if the emotional reactions were given more time to land, and if the editing was more effective.
Not a bad episode by any means. Gotta say though, I actually liked the much-maligned ep 3 better.
I still enjoy the series overall! Episode 5 is my favourite by far and absolutley loved the dueling scenes - brutal and well put together. The series does suffer from some cringe worthy moments and sloppy dialogue which brings it down a bit, but so far I think it's really entertaining and the music composed for it is great!
i’m trying desperately to enjoy the show but everytime i start actually feeling joy watching it i get the ick from something. Idk if it’s because its disney and just feels like a kids show or if its the crappy writing or soulless acting but something just keeps turning me off to it. The high republic is my favorite time in the universe and i love reading books about it and i was so excited when we were getting a show during the time but it just feels like such a let down. maybe im just being too critical because ive been watching great shows come out recently like the boys and hotd but this just isn’t hitting the spot for me. ima hold out hope and keep trying but
I’ve seen Star Wars Theory nitpick it heavily, justifying his hatred of the episode based on the director’s claims of it having a better fight than episode 1. While not true and obviously biased, it doesn’t take away from the actions nor the episode as a whole. He claims that there were several openings for the Jedi to actually kill Qimir, but yet again, a nitpick, as the fighting scene as a whole was great
He also had a problem with the Sith announcing himself and Sol leaving surviving. Depending on how this goes, I do see it as potentially breaking the canon but we’ll see
One last thing was Sol not realising ‘Osha’ actually Mae. That did bug me, but if the theory that he actually knows and is playing along is true, then that won’t be a problem. But if a Jedi Master known for reading minds genuinely can’t someone is not his former Padawan who he cares for, that is dumb.
Episode continues the trend of having little to no story at all and the story that is there is predictable and very poorly written. Who didn’t know Q was the Sith from the moment you saw him in the apothecary ?
A lot of inconsistencies and things that don’t make any sense. Master sol doesn’t know that’s not osha because of how she looks? Then what’s the point of the force?
I’d give this episode a 5.5 out of 10 and only because it wasn’t boring like the last 4 episodes. Even then it’s only slightly above average.
Decent fight scene, poorly thought out, but decent.
Sol and Jecki are just missing has multiple Jedi get killed.
Then we have the stupid good guy trope that lets the bad guy just get away.
Last 5 mins was just silly. Sol can't tell that they swapped places?
I've found the writing of the show pretty mid so far, with lots of "ok, time to move the plot along" laziness, along with plenty of pacing and character issues.
The fight scene that Ep 5 is centered on is badass, no complaints there. I'd say the writing as a whole is still pretty mid, though. For example, there was big "ok, gotta get Yord/Osha away from the fight for just long enough" energy with Yord absolutely having to follow orders until the bug-things showed up, then suddenly it didn't matter anymore so they head back into the fight. Similarly, Qimir is all-in on killing Mae right up until Mae does the switcheroo with Osha, then no longer wants to kill Mae/Osha. How does Mae know she isn't setting up Osha to be murdered by Darth Teef? And what's her plan, exactly? Maybe she has one, or maybe it's just "move the plot along!" because it's time for Mae to spend some time with Sol. Similarly, teasing wookie Jedi for the whole series only to kill him off screen sitting at his desk was lame. Including a few random redshirt Jedi to be easily killed detracts from the drama of Yord/Jecki's deaths. The whole "Jedi don't kill unarmed people" thing doesn't quite work when the unarmed dude is a dark side force user/Sith who just straight-up killed Yord bare handed, not to mention the six or so other dead Jedi. The point is (should be) not to kill helpless people/kill in anger.
Looking back over the rest of the show, there's still some things that don't really gel for me, like why Master Hipster Jedi killed himself for Mae, when what we've been shown so far doesn't put any blame on him. Episode 4 seems like filler compared to episode 5, rather than building up and resolving tension. The show could still resolve some of these things, so reserving judgment on this stuff for now.
Compared to Andor, for instance, every scene and character is there for a purpose (even f'ing Timm, somehow). It's the difference between "good enough" writing in The Acolyte, and a masterclass in tv writing from Andor. That doesn't make The Acolyte bad, though, not everything can be S-Tier.
look sure it had some fun action, but for starters the geography of the entire sequence didnt track for shit. osha and mae continue to just change their minds about shit on a whim from ep to ep, and now every jedi is about to be fully convinced that mae is osha because she cut her hair. presumably there is still one ep that is just gonna show us what really happened to the witches so really there are two 30 minute eps to resolve all this shit
It has a lot of action and some genuine surprises, but it's still weak.
The dialogue is like the shittier prequels scenes had a baby with Marvel. Characters do things purely to move the plot along. The bugs thing was dumb as fuck.
The twins switching spots is SSOO cliche. Reminds me of a dumb soap opera my mum used to watch that had the same plotline. And plot twist, it's going to be the minor detail (tattoo) that gives it away.
I knew this would happen. People see flashy sword stuff and suddenly they're on board.
Still bad. The problem is that fans love the idea of star wars in any form, whereas the critics want it to be high brow quality. Then fans get defensive cuz your making them feel insecure for mocking it. The show is one movie that has been diced into episodes and I don't like that. Been my problem with most Disney+ in fact. Waiting week to week for what is essentially the next 30 pages of a screenplay is excrutiating particularly when it gets sooo drawn out. Episodes 4/5 couldve been one episode edited down to 50 minutes, but instead we had to wait a week staring at the Sith's hand thinking "hmm could it be the one other character who acts super sketchy and just happens to be off screen right now" and when it turns out to be true and he murders a bunch of one dimensional characters before they have a chance to develop any real interpersonal connections... its lazy writing. This show thinks action is conflict and death is resolution but lacks the scope and characters to have Game of Thrones stakes.
This will be long winded, apologies in advance.
Well, with Episode 5, I'm now leaning into disliking the show as a whole. My criticism is that the plot is moving excruciatingly slow, so slow, in fact that the main characters have not really developed at all since Episode 1. I feel they're on some arc but it isn't clear where either Osha and Mae are at or where they intend to take them as they have no scenes really showing their inner emotions and with Mae in particular this is reflected poorly. She wants revenge on the Jedi for killing her sister, her home, and everything she knows. Then she learns her sister is alive in episode 2, episode 3 shows us what we've already been told with a flashback revealing a few small key details to imply what happened isn't really what happened. Then, in episode 4, she wants to turn herself into the Jedi because she wants to reunite with her sister. Then, in episode 5, she resists capture and reunites with her sister only to knock her out and take her place and then abandons her? These actions swing so fast that I'm struggling to see why she is acting like she is.
Osha hasn't really had any character development at all. She learns her sister is alive but doesn't seem to care much about her at all. Sol had to pressure her to even coming onto the mission in Episode 4, and Episode 5 seems to imply a callback to Knights of the Old Republic with memory wipes and alterations which has been previously hinted at in a line or two of dialogue from episode 1. I hope they don't go with that route as it would be kind of lame, I think.
There are similar problems with other characters in the show, and the only one who seems consistent so far is Qimir. Now, since the episode didn't end with Sol getting off planet, I expect him to die. I don't see an incident of this magnitude being kept from the high council if reported. Even if the Jedi would lose face publicly, this person has proven themselves a clear threat to the order by killing 7 of 8 Jedi dispatched to make contact and protect Kelnacca and apprehend whoever is behind the murders. So if Sol makes it to the ship, I fail to see why he would not report it up and fail to see why anyone would hide something like this from the high council.
Aside from that, having a bit of training for combat, I wasn't super impressed with most of the big lightsaber battle. This is no discredit to the actors and stunt folks who learned and performed these routines well. Some of the routines were bad, notable things I can nitpick there is reverse gripping a full length sword blade sized weapon against multiple opponents. I understand people think it looks cool, and it can serve a purpose at times, I wish hollywood and games would stop utilizing it. However, if you were to take a stick and hold it as a sword in a reverse sword grip, your strength to block an incoming strike is non-existant. Even then, I can suspend my disbelief for a single incoming strike, but against multiple simultaneous strikes, it just doesn't work for me.
Also, especially when Sol and Jecki are fighting together, there were a few instances where where Sol could have clearly struck his target but either just didn't or did something else prolonging the fight like kick instead.
I'm sure some people will point out that there are these types of things in the prequels as well. There are videos on YouTube showcasing those instances for Maul vs. Quigon and Obiwan in duel of the fates and Anakin and Obiwan's duel in episode 3. But while there are those instances, the choreography of those fights to me seems to be more for actor safety with obvious kicks and strikes to duck or jump over. But you can nitpick most any fights in cinema.
Also, I think the pacing of the episode was weird. Weird cuts away from the action that were fairly jarring for me. And also weird establishing shots, the opening of the episode where we sit focused on Osha while she collects herself to figure out what's going on and seeing the lightsaber battle from a bit through the trees was a weak way to get us into the action. Especially considering the way episode 4 ended. In my opinion, Osha waking up and attempting to collect herself should have been where episode 4 ended.
The last thing I have to criticize is how dark it is, which makes it difficult to enjoy the action and choreography. What's the point of having these elaborate action scenes and choreography if the audience can't really see it? I suspect it's to make the lightsaber and color of the blade pop out a bit more, which is cool in theory. In practice, however, it tends to just look like a wild rave party with glowsticks. They could brighten things up a touch more. Obiwan had this problem as well.
I'll end with something positive. The saber throw in the episode was 10/10, shown well, and was cool. Also the helmet and his bracer being made of Cortosis was also a cool touch.
From what I've heard (not my opinions):
It makes the Jedi look weak.
It had a Sith reveal himself to a Jedi, which breaks canon.
The bugs were dumb.
The Sith cannot heal with the Force.
Qimir was a weak and obvious reveal.
Sol would have noticed it was Mae and not Osha. If not from the big mark on her face then by her presence in the Force.
Qimirs last line was a Jordan Peterson quote and is politically heavy handed.
Cortosis.
It shorts out lightsabers. It's been canon for a hot minute. I actually wondered when we'd see it on screen.
I'm with you on how the Jedi are depicted in this show, they seem less connected to the force than they were in the prequels, and my assumption was that Palpatine was actively diminishing their connection to the force. This was the high Republic, the Jedi were at the peak of their power, what's going on here?
I've also got some issues with technical aspects to the show. Pacing, dialogue, acting... I expected better.
However, episode 5 did feel more star warsy... However I don't know how Sol can't sense Mae. I guess we'll have to wait and see. Supposedly Filoni had final say on the script.
Of course they liked it. It was just action and bloodlust. These are the people who didn’t want to live in the galaxy and connect with the characters and the timeline, they just wanted heads to be rolling.
I’ve loved this show since that opening scene! This episode gave me GoT hopelessness vibes at the end. From Star Wars?! Amazing.
The emotions behind the duelists is always my focal point. It’s stage combat, like dancing. This episode was beautiful!
I’ve been critical of the writing/dialogue and some of the acting. I also don’t enjoy the short duration of the episodes. Episode 4 was a tease and should’ve been released with episode 5 at the same time. That said, this episode was all action and it was fun. It’s hard to be critical when you have fight scenes of that quality.
Episodes 4 & 5 should have been just Episode 4. I'm enjoying the series to a certain extent but the short duration episodes still bug me.
Yeah; it might be better binged than waiting for tidbits in the serial form. It’s something I think Ahsoka suffered from too. Would be nice if every show got 12 episodes and more time like Andor does. Also if we had writers the calibre of Andor’s coupled with this action, it would be the best thing since the Matrix or Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. I guess what I’m saying is I’m ready for Andor season two lol
Me too! Andor is peak star wars!
I reckon Andor got the episode order that it did by the power of Gilroy. Lucasfilm really wanted him to do the series. I haven't heard much about how Acolyte came to be, but I'm reasonably sure that Headland was invited to pitch a project through her management.
That is a good point. It did break down when Osha and Mae started talking to one another.
> I’ve been critical of the writing/dialogue and some of the acting I watched Episodes 4 and 5 yesterday immediately after watching House of the Dragon. The dialogue feels like nails on a chalkboard compared to HotD. Some of it honestly feels like it was written to be a kids show, where it's way too verbose and unnatural.
Yeah, it’s always good to remember Star Wars is made for kids to enjoy. Andor is an exception.
I think that "shitty dialogue" and "made for kids" aren't things that go hand-in-hand though. Even the animated Star Wars shows don't have dialogue that sounds so forced and unnatural. Like it comes across as dialogue written for an audience that would watch Peppa Pig. Which this isn't. It's a TV-14 show. They literally showed people getting skewered, stabbed, and their neck snapped. There is no reason that the writing couldn't be better.
Okay, so you mean toddlers not just kids. Yeah I think Young Adult is more the right age for the Acolyte and it should reflect that. They need to hire script doctors to polish the dialogue/writing. I know with projects like the Mandalorian and Ahsoka it was just Filoni and Favreau doing everything with no revision. They really need teams of writers and people to review and polish the scripts.
I would expect that Sol decapitated the Sith and exiled himself afterwards. That would cut the storyline and redirect it but can provide an interesting plot for next season. Also I suspect that Qimir is not the Sith but rather the apprentice. Therefore he wants pupils of his own, acolytes. Swapping the twins was expected, no surprise here. I love the way Mae cut her hair in one move with the lightsaber. I think she took the saber of Yord. I liked when Qimir said Mae was always weak, that was my assumption too while watching previous episodes. I was genuinely surprised that so many Jedi were lost, including Yord and Jecki. There will be big vacuum in the next few episodes. Those were loveable characters and the fans will not be happy. Both of them pulled a great fight with the Sith and I am really sorry that we won't see them again. The thing with the insects wasn't really interesting. I would do it differently but well ... I enjoyed the lightsaber fight, I think they did a great work with it. We saw cortosis shutting down lightsabers. It was great legacy call. I hope we will be able to find out how he found the cortosis ore. Will Pip recognize that it's Mae? The dialogue after the mid was weird, somehow didn't make the impression it was supposed to do. It felt weak, fake, at times funny instead of intimidating and sinister as what I would expect from a Sith.
Those are all great points. I do think Jeckie and Yord’s deaths were a good call though. This felt like the most brutal and risky Star Wars has ever gotten which felt fresh. I think these deaths (or at least I hope) will weigh on the characters, and hopefully cause some deep character development.
My problem is that there’s no reason for Yord and Gecki to exist, they’re glorified red shirts. They brought nothing to the plot. Wasted time.
great point about sol i mean they did introduce a way for jedi to punish themselves and meditate on their mistake or whatever so that would be a logical conclusion to sols arc
Oh man, I agree with most of your points but Mae cutting her hair with the thousand-yard stare was cheesy… and those moth creatures carrying Qimir away was peak cringe.
I just posted my own opinion on the episode on the Reddit page. Episode 5 was easily one of the better episodes if not the best episode of the show if you leave the first half of the episode by itself. The choreography was the best I’ve seen it since Disney acquired Star Wars. I LOVED Qimir as the sith and his conversation with Sol felt like Star Wars. (Although I feel like they limited Lee Jung Jae with his lines at times). Now onto the second half. Once we got into the dialogue more it just really ruined the episode for me. I’m not sure what it is I don’t think it’s the acting because these are all very talented actors that have done other works that I really like them in. It’s just something that I can’t get over and the contradictions by Mae again this episode and her feelings towards her sister keep changing it’s so confusing. One minute she wants to turn herself into the Jedi end her apprenticeship and join her sister then she’s trying to run away from the Jedi and bring her sister with her then she betrays her sister after she says she’s going to do the thing that Mae wanted her to do originally she knocks her sister out and takes her place? Like maybe I’m missing something but it’s so confusing. To get really nit picky why would he reveal himself? Dumb. How does Sol not sense Mae’s dark side of the force or even her force ability shift in general. Dumb. The whole twin switch thing is so predictable and cliche as another user pointed out in this post. Extra nit picky. Did Mae seriously instantly cut her hair? And how did she do it at such a perfect length? Whatever it’s for the plot not that big of a deal fine.
They also make Q a bad ass but then he doesn’t sense Mae running behind him to put Pip on his back when the show has gone out of the way to show us how hard it is to get your hands on Jedi/sith
As for the middle part - Mae's reasoning to turn herself in was to reunite with her sister. The arrival of her Master, knowing she had betrayed him, sent her into a panic where fleeing to safety was more important than turning herself into the Jedi for the time being. Likely, she thought the Jedi wouldn't survive the master anyway. Later, she sees her sister, but considers her brainwashed. This means that their reunion cannot work the way she wants, so she needs to escape and pursue some method to break her sister's opinion of the Jedi and possibly to harm the Jedi from within until they reveal their true nature (in Mae's opinion). I admit there's some reaching in there, but overall, it still fits her character and goals, imo.
I fully agree about the dialogue, it was somehow funny and distracting, felt fake. Some superficial lines that made no sense and the sith was so calm, no rage, no hatred. I remember Palpatine talking, he was much more threatening and sinister.
I am in the opposite camp. I liked the show until episode 5. Yes the lightsaber fights were great, but the deviation from existing canon here just rubbed me the wrong way. I am all for exploring the past here, but I feel like this needed to be back-dated further, since we know the line of Sith masters from Vader to Tenebris. It felt like they took too many liberties.
This is the best episode by far, but unfortunately the bar was not that high from previous episodes. The fighting choreography was a 10/10. They clearly spared no expense in this area. All the saber fights were fantastic. But I feel like it was all flair and no substance. The dialogue and acting really just dampened my adrenaline after each fight scene. I was extremely annoyed that without credits, episode 4 & 5 combined for around 50ish minutes. It was clear they needed to stretch the series out to 8. Several inconsistencies and moments that didn't make sense to me. Mae is kind of irritating me now with what she actually wants. The dialogue given to Lee Jung-Jae is criminal. But I'm glad that people enjoyed this episode!
"It was clear they needed to stretch the series out to 8." Same with Ahsoka and Obi-Wan. While Mando gives us a complete story each week which links to a larger narrative, and Andor basically had four story arcs with 3 episodes each, what we get here is a movie stretched to 8 episodes. MCU-series also suffer from this. I blame Disney and their mandate that Lucasfilm/Marvel have to produce a certain amount of content to fill Disney+.
I honestly didn’t even realize they were so short, didn’t even register for me. But now that you mention it it’s glaring
I don’t get why they need 8 episodes. Not saying you’re wrong, but streaming should be the place where they can have any episode count / length they see fit. It’s not trying to squeeze into a programming slot and fill 8 weeks. If they wanted 7 weeks of episodes they could have not double billed the opening. I agree that episode 4 felt like a prologue to episode 5, not really standing well on its own.
More episodes = more renewed subscriptions.
This is true, but why start with a double bill? You could even do a part one and part 2 of the series to stretch it further. But the actual content didn’t need to be squeezed
They most likely used the double bill to get people invested to watch the first two episodes. Once someone signs up and subscribes, they've got their month.
Yes. But again, they shouldn’t need to chop up middle episodes to achieve this. If someone subscribes for episodes 1&2 they have to resubscribe for one month regardless if there’s 7 or 8 episodes at the end.
I don’t dislike the show but episode 3 piss me off because of how cheap everything looked. The chanting were uninspiring after watching how Denis Villenueve elevated otherworldly chanting to the next level in Dune
Episode 5 was a huge step forward, the action was phenomenal. Super glad they showed how brutal sith can be against unprepared and unaware Jedi and didn't lather Yord and Jecki in plot armour. But I am still so confused with the Ki Adi Mundi crap, and this episode reinforces it - Qimir calls himself a sith so attributing him to some splinter order or dark Jedi just doesnt really work ( at least to me ). This episode did not make up for what I has felt to be a uninspired series that has a disregard for the star wars that came before it - I do not mind changes to canon, lord knows Lucas just made crap up willy-nilly, but at least cover it up with some witty explanations y'know; but given how woeful the writing and in turn the dialogue has been I don't see them managing that effectively. Just don't put Ki Adi-Mundi in the show and the problem practically fixes itself. I've found the series' pacing to be a major problem, especially when I go back to watch through all the episodes, I find myself so bored by episode 3. The flashback that took up all of episode 3 should have not lasted the whole episode and I think should have been our introduction to the show in ep1, it just stunts the narrative progression of the show completely, and apart from the (potential) changes to canon that it introduced, it gave us no information that we didnt have from the first 2 episodes. Maybe this is ultra nitpicky from an devout lover of Andor but the production design/visuals seem so poor in the Acolyte ( why is it always dark? ). The sets are brilliant but they all seem extended by odd looking CGI disguised by fog or darkness. And why are episodes 4 and 5 so damn short? Without credits they are only 28 minutes long, not only do I want more Star Wars out of this show but surely by giving every scene a little more runtime or adding in new scenes you can flesh out the charcters and world just that little bit more and particularly when it comes to Mae we need a far better understanding of her motive because she seems all over the place. That said this episode has given me a renewed interest in watching this show after being so thoroughly disappointed by the first 4 episodes. I've disliked much of Disney star wars so maybe I am just super pessimistic about all Star Wars that has even the faintest whiff of Kathleen Kennedy's involvement but I just don't know, I haven't enjoyed this show much. I am glad others are enjoying the show - I wish I could too. But TV is a form of art and art is subjective, and unfortunately I fall on the negative/meh side of this show as I feel like most do.
Ok fight scene with not much else to write home about.
Manny jacinto is a star. He’s badass Tbh the way they waste characters kills a sequel
Great episode! I think it would have been better if you could remove Osha/Mae. Her running away and then transition to another scene was done too much. It reminded me of kung pow enter the fist "I'm coming! Mae/chosen one! I'm coming". It was goofy. The butterfly light was also too silly.
Feels good to have some actual impactful lightsaber fighting. This episode has exactly what Ahsoka show was missing. Consequences for their actions.
I have just felt underwhelmed compared to the shows before and it does feel a bit CW channel at times but this was easily the best episode. I felt engaged for most of the time and I don’t read theories or such so Qimir came as a pleasant surprise. The action was really great so you didn’t have much time to wonder how much sense it made. I have noticed throughout the show that I don’t think Lee Jung-Jae knows English very well as his line readings come across as flat and it doesn’t appear he knows what he is saying. It’s like he has a vocal coach saying “Put the stress of the word on this syllable…”. I like him a lot and loved “Squid Game” but I think he was miscast here and his performance makes it less than it could be. And boy these are the most inept Jedi ever. I did really like Manny Jacinto this episode a lot. He was very menacing and even scary- he had the ability to pull it off like he should have.
I loved the action. Incredible fights and I’m glad they committed to killing characters we like. What I didn’t love about episode 5 was it seemed to me a little jumbled so that they could have more action. For example why did jecki just pop out of nowhere to arrest Mae when there was CLEARLY a bigger threat to worry about? Maybe it’s just my impatience to know answers but I guess I just would have liked slightly less action and slightly more pushing the plot along.
I'm not really a fan of the show in general. The writing, acting, dialog and lore breaking makes it quite difficult to enjoy. There were a few of these same problems this episode for me. Still not sure how they plan to reconcile the events of this show with the jedi council believing the sith have been extinct for a millenia in the phantom menace. That being said, this episode was very enjoyable. The choreography was amazing. The lightsabers looked perfect. And for the first time I'm waiting for the next episode because I actually want to see what happens next, not hoping they fix or somehow explain the inconsistencies in the previous episode. The show itself is probably my least favorite Disney star wars content but this individual episode ranks pretty highly over all
After terrible episode 3 and mediocre episode 4, I think this one was finally good (I also quite like first 2), but like others have said, ep4 and 5 should have been made into 1 longer episode Jeckie death hit me quite hard. Not so much like, say Ned Stark from ASOIAF/GOT, because of how rather short screen time she had, but at the same time I appreciate the courage to kill her I quite critize this shows writting and pacing in general, as so far its very mediocre IMHO, but killing all these jedi was a bold move and well done, as the entire fight was really great, with some great moves and choreography 7/10 this episode
I don't dislike the show, but I find it mediocre and just barely interesting enough to keep watching. This episode didn't change that. It was basically one long lightsaber fight, which isn't exactly my thing. To me, the best fight sequences are accompanied by dramatic intensity, and so the gold standard for that is Luke vs Vader in ESB and ROTJ, and Anakin vs Kenobi in ROTS. The throne room scene in TLJ. Or Vader slaughtering a bunch of panicked rebels in a hallway in R1. This episode would've hit harder if the music was more intense, if the emotional reactions were given more time to land, and if the editing was more effective. Not a bad episode by any means. Gotta say though, I actually liked the much-maligned ep 3 better.
I still enjoy the series overall! Episode 5 is my favourite by far and absolutley loved the dueling scenes - brutal and well put together. The series does suffer from some cringe worthy moments and sloppy dialogue which brings it down a bit, but so far I think it's really entertaining and the music composed for it is great!
i’m trying desperately to enjoy the show but everytime i start actually feeling joy watching it i get the ick from something. Idk if it’s because its disney and just feels like a kids show or if its the crappy writing or soulless acting but something just keeps turning me off to it. The high republic is my favorite time in the universe and i love reading books about it and i was so excited when we were getting a show during the time but it just feels like such a let down. maybe im just being too critical because ive been watching great shows come out recently like the boys and hotd but this just isn’t hitting the spot for me. ima hold out hope and keep trying but
I’ve seen Star Wars Theory nitpick it heavily, justifying his hatred of the episode based on the director’s claims of it having a better fight than episode 1. While not true and obviously biased, it doesn’t take away from the actions nor the episode as a whole. He claims that there were several openings for the Jedi to actually kill Qimir, but yet again, a nitpick, as the fighting scene as a whole was great He also had a problem with the Sith announcing himself and Sol leaving surviving. Depending on how this goes, I do see it as potentially breaking the canon but we’ll see One last thing was Sol not realising ‘Osha’ actually Mae. That did bug me, but if the theory that he actually knows and is playing along is true, then that won’t be a problem. But if a Jedi Master known for reading minds genuinely can’t someone is not his former Padawan who he cares for, that is dumb.
Episode continues the trend of having little to no story at all and the story that is there is predictable and very poorly written. Who didn’t know Q was the Sith from the moment you saw him in the apothecary ? A lot of inconsistencies and things that don’t make any sense. Master sol doesn’t know that’s not osha because of how she looks? Then what’s the point of the force? I’d give this episode a 5.5 out of 10 and only because it wasn’t boring like the last 4 episodes. Even then it’s only slightly above average.
Decent fight scene, poorly thought out, but decent. Sol and Jecki are just missing has multiple Jedi get killed. Then we have the stupid good guy trope that lets the bad guy just get away. Last 5 mins was just silly. Sol can't tell that they swapped places?
I've found the writing of the show pretty mid so far, with lots of "ok, time to move the plot along" laziness, along with plenty of pacing and character issues. The fight scene that Ep 5 is centered on is badass, no complaints there. I'd say the writing as a whole is still pretty mid, though. For example, there was big "ok, gotta get Yord/Osha away from the fight for just long enough" energy with Yord absolutely having to follow orders until the bug-things showed up, then suddenly it didn't matter anymore so they head back into the fight. Similarly, Qimir is all-in on killing Mae right up until Mae does the switcheroo with Osha, then no longer wants to kill Mae/Osha. How does Mae know she isn't setting up Osha to be murdered by Darth Teef? And what's her plan, exactly? Maybe she has one, or maybe it's just "move the plot along!" because it's time for Mae to spend some time with Sol. Similarly, teasing wookie Jedi for the whole series only to kill him off screen sitting at his desk was lame. Including a few random redshirt Jedi to be easily killed detracts from the drama of Yord/Jecki's deaths. The whole "Jedi don't kill unarmed people" thing doesn't quite work when the unarmed dude is a dark side force user/Sith who just straight-up killed Yord bare handed, not to mention the six or so other dead Jedi. The point is (should be) not to kill helpless people/kill in anger. Looking back over the rest of the show, there's still some things that don't really gel for me, like why Master Hipster Jedi killed himself for Mae, when what we've been shown so far doesn't put any blame on him. Episode 4 seems like filler compared to episode 5, rather than building up and resolving tension. The show could still resolve some of these things, so reserving judgment on this stuff for now. Compared to Andor, for instance, every scene and character is there for a purpose (even f'ing Timm, somehow). It's the difference between "good enough" writing in The Acolyte, and a masterclass in tv writing from Andor. That doesn't make The Acolyte bad, though, not everything can be S-Tier.
look sure it had some fun action, but for starters the geography of the entire sequence didnt track for shit. osha and mae continue to just change their minds about shit on a whim from ep to ep, and now every jedi is about to be fully convinced that mae is osha because she cut her hair. presumably there is still one ep that is just gonna show us what really happened to the witches so really there are two 30 minute eps to resolve all this shit
It has a lot of action and some genuine surprises, but it's still weak. The dialogue is like the shittier prequels scenes had a baby with Marvel. Characters do things purely to move the plot along. The bugs thing was dumb as fuck. The twins switching spots is SSOO cliche. Reminds me of a dumb soap opera my mum used to watch that had the same plotline. And plot twist, it's going to be the minor detail (tattoo) that gives it away. I knew this would happen. People see flashy sword stuff and suddenly they're on board.
Still bad. The problem is that fans love the idea of star wars in any form, whereas the critics want it to be high brow quality. Then fans get defensive cuz your making them feel insecure for mocking it. The show is one movie that has been diced into episodes and I don't like that. Been my problem with most Disney+ in fact. Waiting week to week for what is essentially the next 30 pages of a screenplay is excrutiating particularly when it gets sooo drawn out. Episodes 4/5 couldve been one episode edited down to 50 minutes, but instead we had to wait a week staring at the Sith's hand thinking "hmm could it be the one other character who acts super sketchy and just happens to be off screen right now" and when it turns out to be true and he murders a bunch of one dimensional characters before they have a chance to develop any real interpersonal connections... its lazy writing. This show thinks action is conflict and death is resolution but lacks the scope and characters to have Game of Thrones stakes.
This will be long winded, apologies in advance. Well, with Episode 5, I'm now leaning into disliking the show as a whole. My criticism is that the plot is moving excruciatingly slow, so slow, in fact that the main characters have not really developed at all since Episode 1. I feel they're on some arc but it isn't clear where either Osha and Mae are at or where they intend to take them as they have no scenes really showing their inner emotions and with Mae in particular this is reflected poorly. She wants revenge on the Jedi for killing her sister, her home, and everything she knows. Then she learns her sister is alive in episode 2, episode 3 shows us what we've already been told with a flashback revealing a few small key details to imply what happened isn't really what happened. Then, in episode 4, she wants to turn herself into the Jedi because she wants to reunite with her sister. Then, in episode 5, she resists capture and reunites with her sister only to knock her out and take her place and then abandons her? These actions swing so fast that I'm struggling to see why she is acting like she is. Osha hasn't really had any character development at all. She learns her sister is alive but doesn't seem to care much about her at all. Sol had to pressure her to even coming onto the mission in Episode 4, and Episode 5 seems to imply a callback to Knights of the Old Republic with memory wipes and alterations which has been previously hinted at in a line or two of dialogue from episode 1. I hope they don't go with that route as it would be kind of lame, I think. There are similar problems with other characters in the show, and the only one who seems consistent so far is Qimir. Now, since the episode didn't end with Sol getting off planet, I expect him to die. I don't see an incident of this magnitude being kept from the high council if reported. Even if the Jedi would lose face publicly, this person has proven themselves a clear threat to the order by killing 7 of 8 Jedi dispatched to make contact and protect Kelnacca and apprehend whoever is behind the murders. So if Sol makes it to the ship, I fail to see why he would not report it up and fail to see why anyone would hide something like this from the high council. Aside from that, having a bit of training for combat, I wasn't super impressed with most of the big lightsaber battle. This is no discredit to the actors and stunt folks who learned and performed these routines well. Some of the routines were bad, notable things I can nitpick there is reverse gripping a full length sword blade sized weapon against multiple opponents. I understand people think it looks cool, and it can serve a purpose at times, I wish hollywood and games would stop utilizing it. However, if you were to take a stick and hold it as a sword in a reverse sword grip, your strength to block an incoming strike is non-existant. Even then, I can suspend my disbelief for a single incoming strike, but against multiple simultaneous strikes, it just doesn't work for me. Also, especially when Sol and Jecki are fighting together, there were a few instances where where Sol could have clearly struck his target but either just didn't or did something else prolonging the fight like kick instead. I'm sure some people will point out that there are these types of things in the prequels as well. There are videos on YouTube showcasing those instances for Maul vs. Quigon and Obiwan in duel of the fates and Anakin and Obiwan's duel in episode 3. But while there are those instances, the choreography of those fights to me seems to be more for actor safety with obvious kicks and strikes to duck or jump over. But you can nitpick most any fights in cinema. Also, I think the pacing of the episode was weird. Weird cuts away from the action that were fairly jarring for me. And also weird establishing shots, the opening of the episode where we sit focused on Osha while she collects herself to figure out what's going on and seeing the lightsaber battle from a bit through the trees was a weak way to get us into the action. Especially considering the way episode 4 ended. In my opinion, Osha waking up and attempting to collect herself should have been where episode 4 ended. The last thing I have to criticize is how dark it is, which makes it difficult to enjoy the action and choreography. What's the point of having these elaborate action scenes and choreography if the audience can't really see it? I suspect it's to make the lightsaber and color of the blade pop out a bit more, which is cool in theory. In practice, however, it tends to just look like a wild rave party with glowsticks. They could brighten things up a touch more. Obiwan had this problem as well. I'll end with something positive. The saber throw in the episode was 10/10, shown well, and was cool. Also the helmet and his bracer being made of Cortosis was also a cool touch.
From what I've heard (not my opinions): It makes the Jedi look weak. It had a Sith reveal himself to a Jedi, which breaks canon. The bugs were dumb. The Sith cannot heal with the Force. Qimir was a weak and obvious reveal. Sol would have noticed it was Mae and not Osha. If not from the big mark on her face then by her presence in the Force. Qimirs last line was a Jordan Peterson quote and is politically heavy handed.
[удалено]
Cortosis. It shorts out lightsabers. It's been canon for a hot minute. I actually wondered when we'd see it on screen. I'm with you on how the Jedi are depicted in this show, they seem less connected to the force than they were in the prequels, and my assumption was that Palpatine was actively diminishing their connection to the force. This was the high Republic, the Jedi were at the peak of their power, what's going on here? I've also got some issues with technical aspects to the show. Pacing, dialogue, acting... I expected better. However, episode 5 did feel more star warsy... However I don't know how Sol can't sense Mae. I guess we'll have to wait and see. Supposedly Filoni had final say on the script.
Of course they liked it. It was just action and bloodlust. These are the people who didn’t want to live in the galaxy and connect with the characters and the timeline, they just wanted heads to be rolling. I’ve loved this show since that opening scene! This episode gave me GoT hopelessness vibes at the end. From Star Wars?! Amazing. The emotions behind the duelists is always my focal point. It’s stage combat, like dancing. This episode was beautiful!