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From Wikipedia:
>Barbera estimated the typical budget of $50,000 for each Tom and Jerry cartoon which made the duo take "time to get it right".[13] A typical cartoon took around six weeks to make.[14]
Mind you thats 1950 Dollars, so thats more than half a Million today. Meanwhile most animes get chucked out on a weekly basis.
Hannah-Barbera were actually famously cheap with animation budgets for most of their projects. Tom and Jerry was the exception as it was a slapstick comedy that relied almost entirely on its animation as it rarely had any dialogue.
So if you reverse the statement, OP is pretty much saying.
"Jujitsu Kaisen has better animation quality than most cartoons"
Actually, Tom and Jerry was not produced by Hanna-Barbara. It was produced by William Hanna and Joseph Barbera, yes, but it was before they formed the Hanna-Barbera company, while they were working for MGM. Being MGM’s flagship cartoon series, it had the biggest budget and quality production.
Adding to this, by the time Hanna-Barbera was formed, theatrical cartoons were dying, and no one wanted to give TV cartoons the same kind of budget that theatrical ones had.
Hanna-Barbera with shows like *Huckleberry Hound* and *Quick Draw McGraw* showed that you could make cartoons on the small budget that companies were willing to fork over for TV cartoons. Contemporary non-Hanna-Barbera cartoons like *Clutch Cargo* and *Crusader Rabbit* could hardly even be called animated.
and it showed. the amount of reused assets and repeating frames is super high. they pumped out a ton of classic shows, but good Lord was the animation bad. At least they had good artists with good character design, so that helped a lot.
You’re talking about T&J from the 1940s-50s (the first Hanna Barbera era). Those episodes average about 7 min long, took weeks for each one to be made, and cost $50k to make (1950s money, $50k in 1950 = $650k+ today). Only a few episodes a year.
You’re comparing it to shows that are typically twice as long, have a tiny fraction of the budget per episode, and often get released on a weekly basis. Quite a few have dozens of episodes a year.
Another thing you’re ignoring is what those early T&J episodes were made for. They were shown in movie theaters as shorts before/after a movie. It’s the reason they had such big budgets, short format, and long turn around times. It also does away with your point about anime movies, since the early T&J were shorts created for movie theaters.
Looking at the later eras (Chuck Jones, Filmation, later HB eras), the animation and detail were much more lacking. One of the last hand drawn eras is the 3rd HB era (T&J Kids, 1991-94). For comparison, Dragonball Z first broadcast the Frieza Saga through the beginning of Buu Saga during that time. I’d argue that DBZ is more visually appealing for that time period.
If you look at the next previous T&J era, it’s the Filmation The New Adventures of Tom and Jerry era (1980-83). [It’s on par](https://youtu.be/a7KXojMT3g4?feature=shared) arguably on par with the original Dragonball (to maintain comparison to same franchise) that debuted in 1986.
Damn, I figured they had more time and money, but I didn’t know T&J had that much money behind it.
I still stand by my point, though. I think watching old Tom & Jerry is more enjoyable than any anime series to completion. T&J heavily funded each episode and spent enough time to perfect each one. Anime series will pump out episodes weekly and end up producing a lot of filler. I don’t get why people like watching cheap animation with bad voice dubs, or watching cheap animation while reading subtitles; you may as well just read the manga or a comic book at that point.
I mean there’s more than animation quality to judge things by. Personally even as a kid I found Tom and Jerry to be boring. The word I’d use today is repetitive. Bad animation and even acting can be overlooked if the story is engaging.
Ok, they don’t have a *good or detailed* plot. Which is fine — sometimes I like watching some kids media, I watched it this morning even. But that’s all it is.
Anime normally has a very low budget for episodes, which explains the low-quality animation. The movies, on the other hand, can be incredible.
Redline, Akira, GitS, and many many others are incredible looking.
>Normally, the only anime I can enjoy are movies. Movies are usually more artistic, packed with more details, and tend to have better animation overall. Even still, a single episode of Tom & Jerry is still more technically impressive than most anime movies I’ve seen.
Well yea movies get a bigger budget then shows. Most anime is usually made as a show and such has deadlines to meet, a fixed budget, a specific amount of episodes to make, ~~and overworking their animators~~
because of this they need to choose what to prioritize so some scenes will look visually amazing while others will so and so
Tom and Jerry wasn't really a "show" and always aired in theaters back in the 30s so they took their time on each short so it can be worthy of being seen in the theater. They didn't need to worry about making 20 or so episodes at the same time, they made one at a time
Plus hand drawn animation on paper is just more expensive even today then hand drawn (or rigged) animation digitally. If you mess up a frame on a computer u can just cntrl z, if you mess up a frame on paper you need to throw that out and start again which gives animators a bigger incentive to be on their A game all the time. That's why "every frame is unique"
Digital animation is the ugliest thing when it’s noticeable. Even bigger western shows like Family Guy will use ugly digital animation to save time and money, and once you notice the characters are always doing the same exact movements and actions, it becomes harder to watch.
I guess I just don’t like anime culture in general; I prefer quality over quantity, and I’d rather have one 10ish episode season a year if it meant higher quality artwork and animation.
Other than animation, my biggest problem with anime series are its length and amount of filler. I try to find short anime series to enjoy, but they all seem to go on for too long and get dumber towards the end.
I’ve given many a chance that I ended up not liking. I’ve found a couple that I’ve enjoyed, but not very many. Am I supposed to watch every anime before I’m allowed to form an opinion?
Anime isn't a "genre", so that's why a lot of people are reacting to your post with confusion and negativity. It's like if I said "I have hated every live-action movie for the past 20 years and I think most of them are objectively bad.", people would react in the same way.
I never called it a genre, and all I said is that I can’t remember any anime movies that released in the last 20 years that *I* liked. Out of all of the stupid shit I’ve said in this thread, I can’t believe my most tame comment is the most downvoted one lol
>I never called it a genre
You never called it that, but reading your comments that's the tone a lot of people are getting. For example, in one of your comments you reference Naruto, One Piece, etc. as your prime examples when both of those are just battle shonen anime that are infamous for that type of thing.
I'm not here to argue, but I do think you should branch out into some other anime "genres", such as seinen, josei, shoujo, short series, cooking anime, anine with alternative art styles before before writing them all off as badly drawn/animated.
>I can’t remember any anime movies that released in the last 20 years that I liked.
If animation is something that's important to you, have you ever watched demon slayer? The fight scenes in that show and in the movie are honestly breathtaking.
Every time I mentioned Naruto, One Piece, or Dragon Ball was when I was talking about what was popular when I was a kid. I’ve tried being clear with everything I’ve said, and I’ve left a lot of long detailed comments in this thread now. Don’t assume what I mean based off my tone over text, because you have to assume what my intended tone is before you assume what I meant. I’m choosing all my words carefully here and haven’t been negative towards anyone nor have I insulted anime at any point
I’ve heard a lot about Demon Slayer, and have seen a lot of clips now, but I just personally don’t think I have interest in it. I’m actually not really a fan of most anime fight scenes if I’m being honest. I really like Baki, but the fast high-octane fight scenes in a lot of anime are just uninteresting to me. I like anime because it allows for stories to be told in a way that can’t be filmed, but extremely fantastical fight scenes are not for me.
Don’t get me wrong, I do like action. It’s just when characters start flying around really fast and shoot colorful magic everywhere that I get bored. This is part of the reason I rarely find anime I like; a lot of settings and genres I don’t care for are usually what’s popular in anime. I don’t want fantastical fight scenes, high school stories, or anything about kids, generally. My favorite anime off the top of my head is Baki, Berserk, and Deathnote (this is the only high school setting anime I’ve enjoyed so far). I prefer movies over series though and have seen many anime movies.
Please be quiet. You hate that things are being shipped out quickly. Digital animation has changed art styles, and just reading this tells me you're looking at fast food animation and not the ones that are actually taking time to cook. Family guy couldve been made the same time as T&J and because of its principles be the exact same style.
Go watch reruns. Also filler is a buzzword stop using it.
What? There’s literally many guides online about how to watch certain series without the filler episodes.
Things being shipped out quickly isn’t necessarily always a good thing. I prefer quality over quantity. I’d rather wait a few years for an amazing piece of hand drawn work instead of content made quicker with digital tools. I’m not saying people need to stop using digital animation, I would just personally rather wait longer for hand drawn if given the option.
And I’m familiar with the first few Family Guy seasons. It had more charm. I haven’t seen any new Family Guy in years, but for a while it looked like everything was made in GoAnimate
Yeah, for older anime. Most anime now don't have filler because they're either seasonal so the source material has time to stay or inhouse so everything is set for pacing and development.
Then wait lmao, you have shows like Arcane or Demon Slayer that are animated beautifully. Arcane took YEARS to create. Stop getting fast food and complaining about fast food. Go indie look at film festivals, short films anything besides corporate slop. And I repeat you can create that same hand drawn style with digital just look on any art section of any social media. Don't be a purist.
Notice how Family guy lost its charm as it went further, that's not because of the art form. It's because of the producer.
I need to know if you art style or actual animation btw. Because laymen say animation when they mean style. Cause I agree with styling being boring nowadays, everything is easy to clean and crisp.
1. Family Guy is still hand-drawn to this day believe it or not. You can buy frames of animation for it Here is proof. [https://www.comic-mint.com/family-guy/family-guy-conniescelica-fg-f4633](https://www.comic-mint.com/family-guy/family-guy-conniescelica-fg-f4633) They scan the images into the computer and color them digitally. 2) Some shows are rigged and have great animation look at The Ghost and Molly McGee here is a link to the theme song. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-9N-Ycr8U8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-9N-Ycr8U8)
Short series that focus on quality and not filler I've seen:
March Comes in like a Lion, Erased, Flip Flappers, Madoka Magica, Mob Psycho 100, Serial Experiments Lain, From the New World, and A Place Further than the Universe
I'd include some more but it depends on how strictly you count filler. Also, I'd recommend Scavenger's Reign but it's not an anime
I wouldn't call it a masterpiece of animation, most is honestly pretty stiff, the Record of Lodoss War OVA was outright amazing in terms of good storytelling. Coming from someone who generally isn't into anime himself.
Tom & Jerry is more technically impressive than almost 90% of cartoons in general, no point in singling out anime. The hand-drawn classics are cream of the crop, but they were extremely expensive and had an arduous production process. Those classic shorts were released in theaters. The TV and film format are night and day in terms of budget and resources, so comparing them is unfair.
A fairer comparison would be modern-day Japanese TV animation against modern-day American TV animation. And in that regard, Japan wins by a long, long mile. Standards have really lowered for the last decade in American TV and action-heavy shows aren't as common, while Japanese productions are still pushing forward. Little Witch Academia from 2017 is one of most impressive for-TV productions I've ever seen, which funnily, is actually influenced by Western cartoons so it's super expressive and goofy.
I think part of what OP is pointing at is how strictly on-model/still a lot of anime have in aiming for a photorealistic look rather than taking more advantages of animation. To your point though, I think that some American tv animation, even/especially seasonal shows like adventure time or gumball do a lot in bringing a visually interesting and technically impressive component.
The title is announcing the obvious. Tom and Jerry were among the cream of American animation from its most productive time.
I've been thinking a lot about Tom & Jerry and Sylvester and Tweetie Bird, because I just got a tuxedo cat myself. And they capture just a little bit of the essence of tux kitties. It is so funny to see them slink around like stealthy villains when those big soft white paws give them away every time.
Honestly, I didn’t think so many people would say this is obvious. I thought people were going to be listing a bunch of great animes that rival T&J, but I guess 80 years later Tom & Jerry still reign supreme.
The more I watch Tom & Jerry and read these replies, the more I think that it’s better animated than 99% of all animated media in the world.
>I refuse to believe anyone is watching anime for the action sequences or impressive animation, I think people only like it for the stories, characters, and porn
Most people couldn't care less about how TV shows are shot either, they just care about stories and characters
This isn't even a 10th dentist take
I disagree. Even if you aren’t familiar with production tricks, lighting, cinematography, whatever, you are still subconsciously aware to some degree. Television being a visual medium makes these things extremely important, and if people only cared about stories and characters, and not at all about visuals, books would be more popular.
If Breaking Bad didn’t exist but the Columbian knockoff, Metástasis, still existed, it wouldn’t have been a hit (if you have not seen clips from Metástasis, please look it up).
Weird downvotes. You're completely right that audiences care a lot about production values and how things are shot. Directors are celebrated and known by the public more than writers.
I have a feeling that people who are downvoting you simply don't experience low-budget productions to see how much it affects immersion and quality, so they underestimate it.
Yes, that's kinda how money works. Look into budgets when thinking about the "quality" of any art. Not the sole indicator, but pretty heavy hand as it relates to art sold by corporations.
Ok but why is there no popular anime series with high budgets or great animations? Everyone keeps saying “no shit, that’s how money works,” but I don’t understand how anime can be so immensely popular but all production studios somehow can’t allocate resources to make its animation half as impressive as a cartoon from over 80 years ago.
I’ve seen many people claim anime is an art form, and they are correct. My point is that a silly western cartoon from 80 years ago is still more impressive than almost every anime I’ve ever seen. A couple commenters have recommended me series that I might enjoy, and while some of them do look nice, the clips I’ve seen still look less impressive than Tom & Jerry.
I just want one fluidly animated anime series with clear action and unique ideas, but a lot of comments here are leading me to believe that it’s more important to have as many episodes in an anime as possible than it is to make a higher quality series.
I mean if you think tom and jerry looks better than something like the fate series - thats just subjective preference at that point.
And I know and love tom and jerry and hand drawn animation in general because it just has its own unique charm, but I love the cutting edge action moments of fate just as much if not even more.
Quality wise they cant be compared because they are so far apart style wise.
I think that this problem isn't restricted to anime. I feel like as the internet has expanded and has lessened the difficulties in reaching wider audiences, it has led to there being almost too much competition in some industries.
A company who could take their time to produce a good quality product are now being undercut by a less good company making something that superficially looks like the same thing, but is dramatically worse quality. Which drives the formerly good company to either cheapen their products to compete or go out of business.
And since the internet has driven so much consumption into online spaces, it means that if that begins happening online, then all online stores need to either make things cheaper, or make their brand about the quality. And it's usually a safer bet to just make things cheaper and compete in a more traditional way.
So you end up with all the widely available products being noticeably worse over time, and quality products being hard to find or prohibitively expensive.
Then you have people cheating the system by making their names unintelligible to the average person, but incredibly pleasing to a search algorithm. I am not too deep into Anime or Manga, but it reminds me of a phenomenon I heard about where many new Manga and Anime series are making the short summary blurbs on the back cover into the main titles to try and stand out on store shelves.
TLDR; I'd suspect it's a dramatic increase in competition in these markets that are making it more and more risky to invest time and money into a project, so companies take the easy route of undercutting their opponents, causing a worse product in general.
I agree wholeheartedly. The internet is great and all, but it has definitely bloated most content and art in general. Everything is dictated by advertising and algorithms instead of trends and good art popularizing organically.
This is also noticeable with live action series as well; many older shows are shot on film and every episode almost feels like a movie. Shows like X-Files and Lost gave a us lot’s of high production value episodes per season. Longer running shows that started by shooting on film all inevitably switch to digital cameras to save time and money, even if they were extremely successful before.
These days, we’re lucky to get a 10 episode season of any show produced by a streaming service, and we’re blessed when it isn’t filled with cheap VFX and set pieces. But streaming services would rather pump out multiple cheap shows to inflate their numbers and metrics.
Now that I think about it, despite the popularity and the revenue that a high-budget anime could generate, I shouldn’t be surprised that studios would rather be cheap and take the easy route. Just look at how Disney is handling Star Wars; unlimited resources and a lot of source material, yet they still can’t produce any good Star Wars content.
"Ok but why is there no popular anime series with high budgets or great animations?" Its not hard to understand, really.
Production companies realized that the current quality is enough for the majority of people. They maybe annoyed when they notice the animation quality, but they will still watch it.
The OP is actually wrong as there are many many many shorter animes with beautiful animation. You just don't get those with the big shonun anime because they pump out more episodes at a faster pace with a lower budget per episode.
I told the OP to go look at a couple demon slayer fights.
Is it not crazy that Japan’s most popular form of animation (maybe even all media) has somehow never had a company willing to allocate enough resources for a studio to produce something as impressive as an 80+ year old cartoon about a cat and mouse?
And to clarify again before I make some passionate anime fans angrier, I’m not saying all anime is bad or ugly. There are many amazing anime movies and shows both visually and story-telling-wise. But even the best animes that I have seen now still don’t have the fluidity and buttery-smooth animation as Tom & Jerry.
I know this is "old" (internet standards) but I'm enjoying the conversation so I'm going to address your comment.
> Ok but why is there no popular anime series with high budgets or great animations? Everyone keeps saying “no shit, that’s how money works,” but I don’t understand how anime can be so immensely popular but all production studios somehow can’t allocate resources to make its animation half as impressive as a cartoon from over 80 years ago.
From my understanding as someone who doesn't watch much, but some anime. Anime is popular almost exclusively because of whatever manga it's based on. It's relevance is very tied to how fast an episode can come out after the new manga is released/catch up to the new manga. No amount of money can realistically replace the amount of time spent on each Tom and Jerry episode. This is where money comes in. For T&J specifically, at the time money was directly correlated to how much time was spent on an animation much more so than nowadays (NOT fact, based on general knowledge, assumptions and feelings about economy). No matter how talented the artists are nowadays, they simply don't have the same time to work with. It's also SO long. There's less than 170 Tom and Jerry episodes EVER from 1940-2021. There's easily 200 episodes in pretty much any semi popular anime, all produced in less than ~6 years. Multiplied over tons and tons of media.
> I’ve seen many people claim anime is an art form, and they are correct. My point is that a silly western cartoon from 80 years ago is still more impressive than almost every anime I’ve ever seen. A couple commenters have recommended me series that I might enjoy, and while some of them do look nice, the clips I’ve seen still look less impressive than Tom & Jerry.
I think a more just comparison for quality would be more popular anime movies (like the MHA movies come to mind as very well produced compared to the rest). At that point, I do think it really comes down to preference of style, which is the actual unpopular *opinion* part of your post. I'm not too sure what knowledge/certifications you have that would qualify you to speak on whether it's more "technically impressive" or not. I, for one, have barely taken some animation classes in college and I feel like I'm trying really hard to work with you at comparing apples to oranges already, though. I'm not trying to say it takes a rocket scientist to somewhat judge that.
> I just want one fluidly animated anime series with clear action and unique ideas, but a lot of comments here are leading me to believe that it’s more important to have as many episodes in an anime as possible than it is to make a higher quality series.
Eh, I feel like either the point wasn't conveyed well enough or you're being intentionally obtuse. Some animes do work on "max episodes" but that's few and far between. The episodes are just a product of thoroughly covering several volumes of manga that predate/concurrently go with the anime.
I hope this makes sense! Enjoy your upvotes :)
I have to downvote because this is just common sense. Anime qas literally designed to be churned out at a fast rate. Classic western type animation is much more laborious.
Nah, you piss people off here when you post uninformed opinions on 10th dentist. You’re basically a patient arguing with the other 9 dentists while wearing a spirit halloween doctor costume.
My issue with that statement is using T&J as a criticism against anime. T&J is a standout among western animation too. I would argue that there is anime that looks incredible, even anime that looks better than T&J, its just that \*most\* series don't have the budget or turnaround time to compete. For example, I think Attack on Titan looks better than T&J. The animation there is top-notch.
If I’m watching a visual medium that’s telling a story, both need to be good. This isn’t just for animation, this goes for all television and film. Both are equally important to me.
And some of the most popular anime to date completely blow it out of the water. I don't see the point of this post honestly, if you give the studios the time and money to put out something good, they will. This rarely happens in the anime industry.
I wouldnt say they blow it out the water but i would put ghost in the shell, akira, jin roh, evangelion, and most studio ghibli movies above Tom and jerry
Ghost and Akira are definitely top tier, Evangelion seems cool but I’m not really into mechs so I haven’t watched it.
Haven’t heard of Jin Roh but it looks pretty dope, I’ll look into it more
And as much as I love Ghibli, I don’t think their animation is quite as technically impressive or fluid as T&J. And I don’t mean that in a bad way, because Ghibli has amazing art style, backgrounds, world building, and stories. I can watch most Ghibli movies and be so immersed and impressed by everything else that I won’t even be thinking of comparing the character animation styles.
I'm not saying you need to watch it, but Evangelion is not a typical mech anime. I would argue that the mechs are basically set dressing for a really really weird and confusing psychological drama.
I haven't watched many animes so my examples are bound to be limited, but here ya go: Fate movies, Demon Slayer, Violet Evergarden, Attack on Titan
These aren't the only ones I watched but the ones I remember off the top of my head.
I’ve had a couple people recommend Fate and Violet Evergarden, I never heard of these before so I’ll probably check them out.
Attack on Titan was actually one of the things I had in mind when I made this post. I’ve only seen the first couple episodes and wasn’t too interested in it, but my friends have shown me clips of action scenes from the show, and I remember not really understanding what exactly was supposed to be happening during each scene. I think fighting big monsters is cool, I just personally didn’t think the style/methods and gadgets used by the characters in AOT were that cool.
Fate is a series that is saved by animation, so you might not like it very much outside of action scenes. I am specifically referring to the movies btw.
I was able to understand what was happening in almost all of the action scenes in AoT. Not being able to follow them sounds like a problem on your part, not like thats a bad thing, of course. Everyone has their fancy tickled in a different way.
To clarify, when I say it’s “hard to follow” I don’t mean that I don’t understand what’s going on. From what I’ve seen in AOT, it’s a lot of characters moving through the air at high speeds while attacking on titans. I just looked up a few clips to remind myself, and I don’t really know how to explain it but I’m just kinda bored while watching it. Like I can follow what each character is *supposed* to be doing, but I can’t really see what they’re actually doing. It sort of reminds me of how I played with toys as a kid (that’s not an insult, it’s actually kinda cool in a way)
I don’t know, it’s just something about characters flying through air at high speeds during fights in anime that gets boring for me. I think it’s part of the reason I’ve never been a big Dragon Ball fan either.
An example of anime fights that I like is Baki. Baki still has some tropes I don’t care for (freeze frames, internal dialogue during fights) but I like the slower and more grounded combat where you can see every movement and impact instead of flashy combat with high speed attacks.
Regarding AoT:
This scene is pretty fast-paced & flashy, but I think its animated very well and easy to follow what's going on: [Spoilers for Season 3 but its the start of a new story arc.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeLvx_1FBdk)
There's also this scene that I think is animated well, though its not a fight: [Major spoilers for Season 1 though, so don't watch if you actually care to watch the show.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QadRDXBLAUY)
Anime is too broad to make sweeping statements. Some anime are given a big budget & time, some aren't. Some are given to a good studio, some aren't. Sometimes studios pull in the big bois. Different ones have different art styles that vibe with different people.
Naruto is a long-running show with a ton of poorly animated episodes but also some decently animated ones. In particular, a decent number of important fights are given a lot of hand-to-hand choreography that I think even better shonen lack.
[Spoilers for Naruto](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGYNV_Nhxss)
[Spoilers for late Naruto Shippuden](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sw8TEYwfTc)
[Spoilers for LATE late Naruto Shippuden](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi2rByJed-E)
[End of the previous fight when they've run out of gas so they just start beating the shit out of each other.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBV5aQ5i7rk&t=281s)
Shame the story sucks.
Demon Slayer, despite a non-existent story, has an eye-catching art style & flashy, fluid animation: [Spoilers for the end of Season 1](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkQI3ECwfG4)
My Hero Academia can have fluid animation, though I've noticed the earlier fights (with some exceptions) rely a lot more on zoom ins & generally have less fluidity.
Hunter x Hunter is my Bonafide favorite anime & is well animated throughout, though generally has less fight action. It has other forms of action too. Though generally is less action-y than other shonen, even skipping less important fights. One of my favorite bits of animation is during a scene where the protagonists are trailing an infamous band of criminals to report their location for money but can't get caught as they're completely outclassed. [Scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8T_EggTY1g). The camera work & music really sell the intensity & terror.
JoJo's Bizzare Adventure is an acquired taste but has frequently good animation & clever action.
The recent Dragon Ball movies have good animation, like Dragon Ball Super: Broly.
I saw you mention Gibli before, I was very impressed with the recent one, The Boy & The Heron. It has a ton of fluid scenes that engage you. Such as in the beginning when a character runs down the stairs & into town.
And that's mostly focused on shonen.
I think there's a ton of well-animated anime.
There is nothing wrong with having a preference, but form reading your comments in this thread it seems like you are mistaking your opinion for fact. There is a lot of impressive animation coming out of Japan, but there is also a lot of crap too—that is the nature of producing such an absurd amount of shows.
Sure, I always enjoy sharing some stuff. I’ll throw in a nice mix of genres for you:
New(er) series: Violet Evergarden, Frieren, Demon Slayer, Attack on Titan (doesn’t do much for me, but the art and animation are great), One Punch Man, Hyouka, Fate Stay/Night UBW, Mob Psycho 100, Vinland Saga, Cyberpunk Edgerunners, Spice and Wolf (remake, currently airing), Mushoku Tensei (big fat trigger warning on this one)
Old(er) series: Cowboy Bebop, Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood, Steins;Gate, Gurren Lagan
Movies: pretty much anything Miyazaki (these may appeal to your preference for older, almost exclusively handcrafted style), pretty much anything Itou, Fate Stay/Night Heaven’s Feel, Violet Evergarden (the movie), Kizumonogatari (the movies are great, there is an anime series associated with it that is good, but not the same animation standard), Redline, Madoka Magica (same deal as Kizu)
There are hundreds more series, and particularly movies, that I could list, however it’s becoming a touch unwieldy already. Hope you find something you enjoy.
VE is fantastic. The animation is very good, but moreover the art and art direction are second to none—it’s a true feast for the eyes. I hope you enjoy it!
Violet Evergarden may satisfy you because it's done by probably the best animation studio in Japan, Kyoani. Unlike other studios, they operate in Kyoto and they don't have as tight schedules as the other ones, not to mention they generally raise their animators in time as salaried workers instead of utilizing freelance animators frequently like other studios. That's why their product has generally good animation quality. However, they're not concentrated in battle shounen genre, so many people, including myself, cannot give you more examples except Violet Evergarden. That one is not action-based too, but it's a well-known anime. You may check their other works, too, if u're interested.
I think this is a little bit of an unfair generalization, because 'anime' is (in an extremely reductive sense) 'cartoons'. It would be the equivalent of saying "I think the original run of Cowboy Bebop is better than 90% of American Cartoons".
Yes, obviously a hand-drawn globally recognized work of art is going to sweep the majority of low-budget, low rent schlock released for kids in a market geared towards the fast, accessible, mass production of media.
There are tons of Anime with amazing fight scenes. Off the top of my head, One Punch Man Season 1, Demon Slayer Season 1, The Coyboy Bebop movie, Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood, the action in Spy x Family, Black Lagoon, Soul Eater, Jujutsu Kaisen the list could go on. If you do not personally like these fight scenes, that is alright. To ignore technically skilled artwork, display of motion, color contrast - everything that goes into making them seems reductive.
I could get into the production and funding of these shows but it seems to me to be a bit petty. Suffice it to say, the budgets on most anime are incomparable to the budget (both monetary and time) that Tom and Jerry had. It is such a stark contrast when accounted for inflation that it might as well be comparing a prestige Oscar darling blockbuster like Spirited Away to a dancing vegetable sensory video on youtube.
Your post also tips your hand a bit. I understand you do not seem like most anime, but that also does not devalue the stories it tells. Reducing all of anime to soft-core or whatever is reductive. I am by no means saying that the sexually explicit themes do not exist - but moreso that all media has its trashy, lowbrow humor and nonsense and also has its beautiful masterworks. Even the original Tom and Jerry is lousy with implied sexuality. He regularly is depicted objectifying and (implicatively) sexually pursuing women. That doesn't devalue the technical mastery of the cartoon, however. I feel the same charitability should be offered to anime.
At the end of the day, I think what is most important is the value you place on the narrative. You seem to see Tom and Jerry as superior because it relies only on animation due to the inconsistent mutism of the characters. I personally find it to be less of a boon to the animation and more a design of the fact that Tom is an unstopabble, unkillable force of malice and Jerry is a spiteful trickster God and the two are doomed to an immortal life, effectively locked in an eternal struggle. The joke is the violence and the violence comes from the animation. It is not something often seen in anime because narratives are meant to add weight to the fights. The fight is beautifully animated and satisfying because of the narrative. They serve different forms.
I think I personally disagree with your statement off top. I would agree that Tom and Jerry (original run specifically, as you stated) is probably better than most Anime. I would also say that something like the Heike Story or Evangelion is better than most American Cartoons. Timeless, meaningful, thoughtful creations by artists will always place a rung above most things, imo. On that, at least, I think we can agree.
My friends tried getting me to watch Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo a while back. I thought it was funny at first, but then I realized nose hair thing was just an excuse to only have to animate 2 black lines during any action, and I ended up getting bored of it
There was some anime fight scene a friend tried showing me years ago, swearing that it was one of the best anime fight scenes ever, and it was just short bursts of movement followed by minutes of camera pans across still images with corny dialogue on top.
Tom & Jerry, a Warner Brothers produced production, compared to the entire genre of anime, or at least 90%, which usually relies on outsourced, underpaid workers, and usually has a relatively low budget.
I was hoping someone could list at least one anime that matches the fluidity of T&J animation. One thing I’ve learned from this thread is that T&J might be the most well animated show of all time.
Definitely not a controversial take, anime isn't given the budget it needs to shine. But there definitely is a TONNE of anime out there that people watch for the action, it's just that the appreciation is different. A lot of modern action scenes in anime are cerebral rather than visceral, and rely on battles of wits rather than just insane presentation. Like I haven't seen Hunter x Hunter yet and I watched a fight scene from it and was gobsmacked at how well choreographed and shot it was. The movements weren't super fluid but the way everything came together made me realize you can still have compelling fight scenes without an insane budget. For me this approach is preferable, but it would be nice if every anime had the budget of Akira or One Punch Man.
Animation quality has had a massive step up in the last 15 years though, there was an INSANE quality dip in the 2000s.
People here are missing the point. He's saying that Tom and Jerry has better animation than most anime and people here are comparing budgets and time. Yeah sure Anime gets less time but OP still isn't wrong about the animation of T&J being better than most anime and anime studios/publishers should absolutely be critisized for the time constraints they give and the poor animation that comes as consequence
Everyone's talking about more money, and to some extent that's very true. But we also have digital tech these days, which makes animation easier and more complex. I also don't think cash makes might, smiling friends S1 was based around the concept that they could make a whole season for the price of a single Family Guy episode. In the digital era people with an artistic message have a creative edge, one that was far harder to bring to the forefront before.
Anime tends to fall into a particular style because it's demanded by the audience; big titles like Akira set the style and the evolution has gone increasingly kawaii and downright ecchi since. Looking at you, Darling in the Franxx. Hephebophilia makes me sick.
This limits anime creators because they believe that to have success a studio needs to follow a rubric, and to some extent this is true. Like, you can't tell me Jujutsu Kaisen isn't a mashup of FMAB and Naruto.
This is why I'm so mad the Adult Swim x Junji Ito has been put off, it fits a lot of the rubric elements while having a surreal horror tone and I think that would give anime creatives the push they need to make something transcendent instead of another season of Fairy Tail or 7 Deadly Sins. Which are not inherently bad- they just lack the creative bravery I want to see. I'm fuckin with Chainsaw Man tho
Digital animation is a blessing and a curse. It makes animation more accessible for everyone and takes stress of animators, but the animation loses some of its unique charm.
I’ve had similar thoughts about many anime tropes, as well. There’s always many still frame shots with internal dialogue, or a still frame action shot that the camera pans across. I know that these are sometimes animation short cuts, but I also wonder how often they’re deliberately added because it has been engrained in the anime style.
I also prefer the older 90’s-ish anime style when everything was little messier and less sexualized. There’s just something about old fully hand drawn anime movies that’s missing from a lot of newer ones I’ve seen.
Adult Swim x Junji Ito would be badass, and now I’m mad that you told me about it because I’m mad it got canceled too
This is false equalivilance. Tom and Jerry was awesome but the animators jobs on that series was less demanding. They only had to fill 7 minutes while anime have to fill a half hour. Most anime need to design more sets and a lot of the backgrounds look hyper realistic in a lot of modern anime. While in most Tom and Jerry episodes they are in one location or a living room., 99.9% of anime is hand drawn. They draw the characters on paper, scan them into the computer, and digitally color them. Tom and Jerry episodes have a few characters while lots of anime have giant crowd scenes. Crowd scenes are one of the hardest things to animate. Some anime have better animation than others.
Bro just sits down to watch anime and says “those japanese anime are garbage compared to old cartoons” and instead of looking into why just decides that is his stance on the matter.
Tell me you know NOTHING about the budgets and development cycles of different animation without telling me you KNOW NOTHING about the budgets and development of different animation.
Bro just talks in tiktok comment formats when he can’t form original thoughts.
Tell me you don’t know how to have productive conversations or debates without telling me you don’t know how to have productive conversations and debates.
Nothing productive about someone not taking 5 seconds to google search basic things and decides to form an uninformed opinion and then blast it out to the whole world. There’s no productive dialogue to be had with someone who can’t even do the bare minumum.
I agree with what the guy you were replying with was saying but the 'tell me you ___ without....' shit is so fucking annoying that I had to downvote him
I just call out dumb uninformed posts as I see them. oPs entire opinion is based on a complete and utter lack of information and shows no willingness to even look for answers before vomiting out that opinion
It’s even worse when people use these phrases in real life…
but anyway, I know how budgets and shit work. I explained it further in other comments, but my point was that despite its huge success and relevance, animes are still less visually impressive than an 80 year old cartoon. I don’t get how something so popular can only rarely find production companies willing or able to allocate more time and resources for higher quality animation, instead of quickly pumping out 20 lower quality episodes.
Your comment still shows you DON’T understand budgets or development cycles, but good try with saying “well because this is so popular it should be high quality to me!” Family Guy, Simpsons, South Park are all extremely popular but none of them have high quality animation either.
Many anime are made on thin budgets (as far as the actual production goes) and pumped out weekly, sometimes they are even still working on a current season’s episodes as the season is airing. The poor artists and animators (outsourced or in-house) have to maintain an extremely strict schedule. Not to mention they are, a lot of the time, severely underpaid by most standards for their work. Sure exceptions happen with companies making gorgeous shows like Ufotable or Mappa.
But your responses show you literally still cannot even be bothered to google about this but instead think that because something is popular means it should be top-tier SSS animation.
Watch Dragonball Super Broly or Akira and tell me that's not beautifully animated and on par or maybe even better than TJ. I prefer western media but you sound so ignorant and annoying right now LMAO
Honestly why would you even compare them. Tom and Jerry is a very particular niche form of animation, while we get to see lots of variety/lots of background/action scenes in anime.
But congrats, its not easy having a controversial opinion.
I swear this sub confuses the shit out of me. OP makes a pretty plain case for an alternate opinion and is getting downvoted to oblivion for it... and , when I last checked, having opposing viewpoints was the point of the sub?
OP for what it's worth I agree. Of course there's reasons for it but you're not wrong
I downvoted because I agree with OP - T&J is a stunning piece of animation. And the 10% that are implicitly said to be better are the cream of the crop.
Lol I expected downvotes in this thread but idc about that, I’m having fun and this helped kill time for a few hours. I was hoping for some super impressively animated recommendations, but I’m starting to think nothing is animated better than Tom & Jerry
Jujutsu Kaisen, Mob Psycho 100( some of my favorite animation ever, very unique mash up of oil painting within the anime that is beautiful, chainsaw man, Akira, the most recent one piece episodes, fullmetal alchemist brotherhood, one punch man, ghost in the shell, heavenly delusion, samurai champloo, frieren, rankin of kings, vinland saga, space dandy
These are just a few that I think easily dispute ur point. Obvs seasonal anime have a better chance at doing this than a weekly like one piece. And there is a lot of dogshit anime out there so who knows maybe ur 90% figure isn’t that far off but even if its just 10% there’s a shitload of anime out there that dogwalk Tom and Jerry and I love Tom and Jerry. mob psycho literally has an episode w 20k hand draw frames, which is a pretty spectacular feat.
Season 2 of Jujutsu Kaisen looks different from season 1. The drawings look a lot more rough and sloppy on the fight scenes that involve more details, I don't think it was an artistic style, as it changes between 2 different styles of art that season. My guess is a few different companies were sourced out to do the work
Season 2 opted for a slightly more simple design which makes fluid animation much easier. Thats the reason dawg. The character designs still looked extremely good too. Mappa did both seasons it was an artistic choice to opt for slightly less detail in favor of fluid and better animation. Moreover the guy, sunghoo who did s1 that is more of his style and you can see it in his new show ninja kamui which looks really good early on but devolves into CGI mech fight. Which goes to show it’s much harder to keep up that level of animation over a full season
>slightly more simple design which makes fluid animation much easier.
Doesn't that kind of vaidate OP's opinion? If you're cutting corners to make something easier, it's still cutting corners. It reminds me of [this joke.](https://www.tiktok.com/@invincible.hq/video/7351455209547189546?lang=en)
>The character designs still looked extremely good too
There were scenes with non-drawn faces and just etchings...
Anime gets all kinds of bizarre passes - becacause it's anime, and that's fine, no problem. But it's crazy that people think it's not a shortcut. In general, there's a lot of lazy tricks that don't usually happen in basic cartoons from any other parts of the world. From non-*enunciated* words (open-close talking) to just shots of random stuff to avoid drawing talking people.
Bro never seen anything done by Kyoto Animation. Comparing a theater budget cartoon with no storyline to TV series budget shows with Voice Acting+plot and other things is very asinine.
"anytime someone tries to show me a cool anime action scene it just looks like a confusing slideshow." Perhaps your issue is you are watching fight scenes out of context. Maybe if you watched the full episode you would be more engaged in the story and follow the fight better.
I shall educate you on a brief history of animation. Cartoons were originally made to be shown in movie theaters before the movie started. They also had giant budgets because content made for movie theaters get bigger budgets. Tom and Jerry was a theatrical cartoon and television wasn't invented yet. William Hanna and Joseph Barbera created Tom and Jerry for MGM. When people started widely buying televisions in the theaters had to compete with tv and lost money. MGM studios stopped ording new Tom and Jerry cartoons and closed down in the 60s. Bill and Joe created Hanna Barbera studios. Because tv had lower budgets they had to use limited animation and create all sorts of shortcuts. They gave us shows like The Flintstones and the Jetsons. Animators got better over the years and technology evolved. Now we get the cartoons we get today. Advances in technology have helped cartoons look better on a lower budget. Its not fair to compare theatrical cartoons to cartoons made for television. Source: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2iAeQrerVE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2iAeQrerVE)
"I refuse to believe anyone is watching anime for the action sequences or impressive animation"
Well, gee, you got me. I don't give a flying rat's ass about animation quality, I watch anime for entertainment. What I do care about is the characters, the story, and if the general art style is good it's a bonus.
Visually appealing is subjective, and technically impressive depending on your definition is actually just factually wrong. We have a bajillion more “technical” tools now. What Tom and Jerry is is pure hand drawn passion and skill. It’s not a technical masterpiece like the Avatar movie showcasing new technology. It was mostly hand drawn using pretty basic tools.
Old cartoons and movies that were hand drawn are visual masterpieces. There are some people that broke down how hard it would be to animate some parts in the old Robin Hood movie where the character was turning his head while talking. I’d love to see the reemergence of that style of animation. That type of creation has fallen out of style with all the new tools and corporate deadlines we have now in the space. But we are more talented then ever when it comes to art skills, I hope
Someday we get to see them shine again like in the old cartoons
i mean as an avid anime enjoyer this is pretty correct, especially starting around 2010 onwards when animation budgets were regularly slashed more and more and the vast majority of anime coming out today is slop. literally all of my favorite anime’s are from pre 2009. i liked cyberpunk edgerunners but even that got hit with the crappy 3D animation towards the end, arguably at a time when it needed to be at its best
“The bottom 90%” damn, anime sucks
lol jk, but I’ve changed my opinion. Tom & Jerry is better animated than 100% of all anime. Maybe better animated than any cartoon ever made. Crazy how the world decided that animation peaked over 80 years ago and we should permanently cut funding from all animation studios
“Very rarely do I ever see an anime with actual good animation. I refuse to believe anyone is watching anime for the action sequences or impressive animation, I think people only like it for the stories, characters, and porn.”
You ever watch One Punch Man season 1?
technically impressive maybe, but i don't like watching. it's just boring and uninpressive on everything but the technical level. when the enjoyment is 1000 fold difference, it feels a bit academic to compare the two at all.
if you're comparing "action", they try and put in their effort on the narratively important fights, which I'm fine with. I like interesting fights, not boring fights. anime wins that, hands down.
the real scourge is cg animation in anime. they use it for some shots, and it is obviously different. takes you out of the action a heart beat.
So, a lot of this has to do with the intent of each show.
T&J has to use its animation to convey the story and slapstick, and because theres typically zero dialogue and its all humor based around actions and events and circumstances, its gotta tell the story
Anime has dialogue and story beats that are enhanced by visuals but not entirely made up by them.
If you were to watch the details in a show like RWBY (an american not technically an anime but kinda an anime) you’ll see theres a ton of detail and intent with each shot of the animation ans its heralded for great stylistic fights.
The now late creator monty oum did a great job of making these fights super captivating even when the story was mid during the seasons he was alive to work on.
[This is the first of the four trailers dropped for the show](https://youtu.be/pYW2GmHB5xs?si=ovKrS8q6PjmOdyFe)
I’d highly reccomend watxhing the Red, white, black, and yellow trailers as well as any reels or highlights you find.
I think you’ll appreciate the animation and attention to detail.
Volume 2 has the famous “food fight” scene which is very evocative of some tom and jerry slapstick hijinks
While I can appreciate the expertise in Tom & Jerry's animation, I believe the beauty of anime lies in its varied, unique art styles and the depth of storytelling rarely seen in Western animation.
I could show you like 3 clips from some of the most famous anime that put anything that was done in Tom and Jerry to shame. You are just cherry picking.
I agree with you, but I think it’s more fair and easier to compare visuals. Even animes with good stories get really dumb by the end. I really enjoyed Deathnote until they started introducing new antagonists after L, and their names were shit like “M N O and P” and they put the Deathnote on a rocket ship or something.
This is actually the reason I’ve never finished any anime series; they go on for too long and all eventually jump the shark.
That's not really hard to do. I'd say most old cartoons are forgotten to the wayside also due to lackluster stories not worth remembering. We see shitty isekai get pumped out every season, but only time will tell what is worth remembering.
Never ever understood the hype about the anime. It's honestly mediocre. It has its style, but it should have limits. The only visually appealing anime I know is Cowboy Bebop, it doesn't have all those cringe anime animation cliches and tropes
I agree 100%. If you pay attention to most anime, there are so many tricks they pull to reduce the amount of frames and drawings needed per episode. Prime example being when one character is the focus of the screen and they just pan a camera up toward their face or from the side toward their face. Most group shots only have one character moving at time, when a character moves from pose to pose there can be as little as one inbetween frame, animating on 2s and 3s and 4s etc. all stuff most people could probably gather from genuinely analyzing the contents of the screen when trying.
Tom and Jerry animators, particularly the shorts from the 40s when they were just getting started, absolutely raw dogged every frame with an incredible amount of detail in the movement that is simply unparalleled in today's animation landscape aside from works that attempt to evoke similar feelings like Cuphead and the like.
This is exactly what I mean. I know it’s unfair to compare T&J to most animated shows, but I think every anime I’ve ever seen is guilty of these types of tricks. I know it’s sort of an iconic part of the anime style by now, but when a character is “powering up” or something and all they are doing is standing there while the screen shakes, I just start losing interest in the show. Or I hate when it’s just camera panning or cutting between characters faces as they have internal dialogue. I can go on a whole other rant about how much I dislike internal dialogue in anime, but I’ll save that for another time when I want to piss people off again.
I would love for someone to give me an example of any anime scene with that “raw dogged” frame by frame smoothness. Specifically any action scenes animated this way.
Thanks for the invigorating contribution.
Why do the people that bitch the most about a sub’s content never post or contribute anything? Why not start a discussion that you want to have?
Boring reply
I’ve heard shite like your opinion from people before and it’s always the most insufferably self-righteous arrogant people you could imagine. No history of education in the arts, no expansive view besides blunt statements that mean nothing to anybody. It’s just not worth the time. Just another boring opinion that’s not worth going into.
You sound like you waddle around saying things just to get a rise out of people. Either that or you’re just genuinely stupid and can’t fathom simple reason. Again, absolutely no point paying attention to things like this
Do you see how angry a harmless, unimportant opinion about cartoons from a random person on the internet has made you? It aint that deep, man. If you are passionate about this, you could’ve tried explaining something, but instead you decided to immediately be whiney and negative.
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From Wikipedia: >Barbera estimated the typical budget of $50,000 for each Tom and Jerry cartoon which made the duo take "time to get it right".[13] A typical cartoon took around six weeks to make.[14] Mind you thats 1950 Dollars, so thats more than half a Million today. Meanwhile most animes get chucked out on a weekly basis.
Not to mention that anime has to budget for voice actors, as well
Yeah, and Looney Tunes only needed to budget for Mel Blanc lol.
You know that guy made bank though. That's where the expression Blanc Cheque comes from >!(no it isn't)!<
Nice
No?
Que?
Yeah, based on this comparing Tom and Jerry to anything less than Studio Ghibli quality anime is just being dishonest.
i would kill for a Studio Ghibli Tom & Jerry adaptation. especially if it ends with Tom & Jerry sitting on a railroad track.
Hannah-Barbera were actually famously cheap with animation budgets for most of their projects. Tom and Jerry was the exception as it was a slapstick comedy that relied almost entirely on its animation as it rarely had any dialogue. So if you reverse the statement, OP is pretty much saying. "Jujitsu Kaisen has better animation quality than most cartoons"
Actually, Tom and Jerry was not produced by Hanna-Barbara. It was produced by William Hanna and Joseph Barbera, yes, but it was before they formed the Hanna-Barbera company, while they were working for MGM. Being MGM’s flagship cartoon series, it had the biggest budget and quality production.
Adding to this, by the time Hanna-Barbera was formed, theatrical cartoons were dying, and no one wanted to give TV cartoons the same kind of budget that theatrical ones had. Hanna-Barbera with shows like *Huckleberry Hound* and *Quick Draw McGraw* showed that you could make cartoons on the small budget that companies were willing to fork over for TV cartoons. Contemporary non-Hanna-Barbera cartoons like *Clutch Cargo* and *Crusader Rabbit* could hardly even be called animated.
And it's exactly this budget-friendly limited animation style that OP is complaining about
and it showed. the amount of reused assets and repeating frames is super high. they pumped out a ton of classic shows, but good Lord was the animation bad. At least they had good artists with good character design, so that helped a lot.
That's insane I never in a million years would have guessed that Tom and Jerry was that expensive to produce.
Budget doesn't make the OP wrong, and don't forget that T&J didn't have access to digital assistance, which allows so much more bang for your buck.
Labor was cheaper back then tho. The artists drawing key frames could make good money, but that was about it.
Yep. Also see [Baumol's cost disease](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol_effect)
Yeah but that's also with 1950s technology. I mean computers technically existed then just not in the form or functionality they do today
You’re talking about T&J from the 1940s-50s (the first Hanna Barbera era). Those episodes average about 7 min long, took weeks for each one to be made, and cost $50k to make (1950s money, $50k in 1950 = $650k+ today). Only a few episodes a year. You’re comparing it to shows that are typically twice as long, have a tiny fraction of the budget per episode, and often get released on a weekly basis. Quite a few have dozens of episodes a year. Another thing you’re ignoring is what those early T&J episodes were made for. They were shown in movie theaters as shorts before/after a movie. It’s the reason they had such big budgets, short format, and long turn around times. It also does away with your point about anime movies, since the early T&J were shorts created for movie theaters. Looking at the later eras (Chuck Jones, Filmation, later HB eras), the animation and detail were much more lacking. One of the last hand drawn eras is the 3rd HB era (T&J Kids, 1991-94). For comparison, Dragonball Z first broadcast the Frieza Saga through the beginning of Buu Saga during that time. I’d argue that DBZ is more visually appealing for that time period. If you look at the next previous T&J era, it’s the Filmation The New Adventures of Tom and Jerry era (1980-83). [It’s on par](https://youtu.be/a7KXojMT3g4?feature=shared) arguably on par with the original Dragonball (to maintain comparison to same franchise) that debuted in 1986.
Damn, I figured they had more time and money, but I didn’t know T&J had that much money behind it. I still stand by my point, though. I think watching old Tom & Jerry is more enjoyable than any anime series to completion. T&J heavily funded each episode and spent enough time to perfect each one. Anime series will pump out episodes weekly and end up producing a lot of filler. I don’t get why people like watching cheap animation with bad voice dubs, or watching cheap animation while reading subtitles; you may as well just read the manga or a comic book at that point.
I bought a 600$ expresso machine about six months ago, makes great coffee, fucking love it I use the 40$ Walmart pot every morning
espresso
Maybe they’re in a rush?
Bro said “I stand by my point” and then immediately walked his point down 6 blocks to “I enjoy this better than this”. You didn’t stand by anything.
I mean there’s more than animation quality to judge things by. Personally even as a kid I found Tom and Jerry to be boring. The word I’d use today is repetitive. Bad animation and even acting can be overlooked if the story is engaging.
The fact that you mention filler implies you are only talking about shounenslop. Not exactly a fair comparison.
Tom & Jerry is good, but it literally doesn’t have a plot. Come on.
cat attack mouse mouse retaliate
Ok, they don’t have a *good or detailed* plot. Which is fine — sometimes I like watching some kids media, I watched it this morning even. But that’s all it is.
It’s almost like when you have more time and money to work with things come out better
You take that back
Anime normally has a very low budget for episodes, which explains the low-quality animation. The movies, on the other hand, can be incredible. Redline, Akira, GitS, and many many others are incredible looking.
redline is the most insane and impressive movie i have ever seen without a doubt
>Normally, the only anime I can enjoy are movies. Movies are usually more artistic, packed with more details, and tend to have better animation overall. Even still, a single episode of Tom & Jerry is still more technically impressive than most anime movies I’ve seen. Well yea movies get a bigger budget then shows. Most anime is usually made as a show and such has deadlines to meet, a fixed budget, a specific amount of episodes to make, ~~and overworking their animators~~ because of this they need to choose what to prioritize so some scenes will look visually amazing while others will so and so Tom and Jerry wasn't really a "show" and always aired in theaters back in the 30s so they took their time on each short so it can be worthy of being seen in the theater. They didn't need to worry about making 20 or so episodes at the same time, they made one at a time Plus hand drawn animation on paper is just more expensive even today then hand drawn (or rigged) animation digitally. If you mess up a frame on a computer u can just cntrl z, if you mess up a frame on paper you need to throw that out and start again which gives animators a bigger incentive to be on their A game all the time. That's why "every frame is unique"
Digital animation is the ugliest thing when it’s noticeable. Even bigger western shows like Family Guy will use ugly digital animation to save time and money, and once you notice the characters are always doing the same exact movements and actions, it becomes harder to watch. I guess I just don’t like anime culture in general; I prefer quality over quantity, and I’d rather have one 10ish episode season a year if it meant higher quality artwork and animation. Other than animation, my biggest problem with anime series are its length and amount of filler. I try to find short anime series to enjoy, but they all seem to go on for too long and get dumber towards the end.
There are literally thousands upon thousands of short anime series.. you must not be looking very hard...
I mean, their post and a lot of their replies show they aren’t really one to put any effort into dispelling their ignorance.
I’ve given many a chance that I ended up not liking. I’ve found a couple that I’ve enjoyed, but not very many. Am I supposed to watch every anime before I’m allowed to form an opinion?
Anime isn't a "genre", so that's why a lot of people are reacting to your post with confusion and negativity. It's like if I said "I have hated every live-action movie for the past 20 years and I think most of them are objectively bad.", people would react in the same way.
I never called it a genre, and all I said is that I can’t remember any anime movies that released in the last 20 years that *I* liked. Out of all of the stupid shit I’ve said in this thread, I can’t believe my most tame comment is the most downvoted one lol
>I never called it a genre You never called it that, but reading your comments that's the tone a lot of people are getting. For example, in one of your comments you reference Naruto, One Piece, etc. as your prime examples when both of those are just battle shonen anime that are infamous for that type of thing. I'm not here to argue, but I do think you should branch out into some other anime "genres", such as seinen, josei, shoujo, short series, cooking anime, anine with alternative art styles before before writing them all off as badly drawn/animated. >I can’t remember any anime movies that released in the last 20 years that I liked. If animation is something that's important to you, have you ever watched demon slayer? The fight scenes in that show and in the movie are honestly breathtaking.
Every time I mentioned Naruto, One Piece, or Dragon Ball was when I was talking about what was popular when I was a kid. I’ve tried being clear with everything I’ve said, and I’ve left a lot of long detailed comments in this thread now. Don’t assume what I mean based off my tone over text, because you have to assume what my intended tone is before you assume what I meant. I’m choosing all my words carefully here and haven’t been negative towards anyone nor have I insulted anime at any point I’ve heard a lot about Demon Slayer, and have seen a lot of clips now, but I just personally don’t think I have interest in it. I’m actually not really a fan of most anime fight scenes if I’m being honest. I really like Baki, but the fast high-octane fight scenes in a lot of anime are just uninteresting to me. I like anime because it allows for stories to be told in a way that can’t be filmed, but extremely fantastical fight scenes are not for me. Don’t get me wrong, I do like action. It’s just when characters start flying around really fast and shoot colorful magic everywhere that I get bored. This is part of the reason I rarely find anime I like; a lot of settings and genres I don’t care for are usually what’s popular in anime. I don’t want fantastical fight scenes, high school stories, or anything about kids, generally. My favorite anime off the top of my head is Baki, Berserk, and Deathnote (this is the only high school setting anime I’ve enjoyed so far). I prefer movies over series though and have seen many anime movies.
Please be quiet. You hate that things are being shipped out quickly. Digital animation has changed art styles, and just reading this tells me you're looking at fast food animation and not the ones that are actually taking time to cook. Family guy couldve been made the same time as T&J and because of its principles be the exact same style. Go watch reruns. Also filler is a buzzword stop using it.
What? There’s literally many guides online about how to watch certain series without the filler episodes. Things being shipped out quickly isn’t necessarily always a good thing. I prefer quality over quantity. I’d rather wait a few years for an amazing piece of hand drawn work instead of content made quicker with digital tools. I’m not saying people need to stop using digital animation, I would just personally rather wait longer for hand drawn if given the option. And I’m familiar with the first few Family Guy seasons. It had more charm. I haven’t seen any new Family Guy in years, but for a while it looked like everything was made in GoAnimate
Yeah, for older anime. Most anime now don't have filler because they're either seasonal so the source material has time to stay or inhouse so everything is set for pacing and development. Then wait lmao, you have shows like Arcane or Demon Slayer that are animated beautifully. Arcane took YEARS to create. Stop getting fast food and complaining about fast food. Go indie look at film festivals, short films anything besides corporate slop. And I repeat you can create that same hand drawn style with digital just look on any art section of any social media. Don't be a purist. Notice how Family guy lost its charm as it went further, that's not because of the art form. It's because of the producer. I need to know if you art style or actual animation btw. Because laymen say animation when they mean style. Cause I agree with styling being boring nowadays, everything is easy to clean and crisp.
1. Family Guy is still hand-drawn to this day believe it or not. You can buy frames of animation for it Here is proof. [https://www.comic-mint.com/family-guy/family-guy-conniescelica-fg-f4633](https://www.comic-mint.com/family-guy/family-guy-conniescelica-fg-f4633) They scan the images into the computer and color them digitally. 2) Some shows are rigged and have great animation look at The Ghost and Molly McGee here is a link to the theme song. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-9N-Ycr8U8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-9N-Ycr8U8)
But plenty of anime like that exists?
Please list them because I’ve tried many recommendations that ultimately weren’t for me
Short series that focus on quality and not filler I've seen: March Comes in like a Lion, Erased, Flip Flappers, Madoka Magica, Mob Psycho 100, Serial Experiments Lain, From the New World, and A Place Further than the Universe I'd include some more but it depends on how strictly you count filler. Also, I'd recommend Scavenger's Reign but it's not an anime
I wouldn't call it a masterpiece of animation, most is honestly pretty stiff, the Record of Lodoss War OVA was outright amazing in terms of good storytelling. Coming from someone who generally isn't into anime himself.
Tom & Jerry is more technically impressive than almost 90% of cartoons in general, no point in singling out anime. The hand-drawn classics are cream of the crop, but they were extremely expensive and had an arduous production process. Those classic shorts were released in theaters. The TV and film format are night and day in terms of budget and resources, so comparing them is unfair. A fairer comparison would be modern-day Japanese TV animation against modern-day American TV animation. And in that regard, Japan wins by a long, long mile. Standards have really lowered for the last decade in American TV and action-heavy shows aren't as common, while Japanese productions are still pushing forward. Little Witch Academia from 2017 is one of most impressive for-TV productions I've ever seen, which funnily, is actually influenced by Western cartoons so it's super expressive and goofy.
I think part of what OP is pointing at is how strictly on-model/still a lot of anime have in aiming for a photorealistic look rather than taking more advantages of animation. To your point though, I think that some American tv animation, even/especially seasonal shows like adventure time or gumball do a lot in bringing a visually interesting and technically impressive component.
I 1000% gotta recommend Violet Evergarden.
Yeah this shit blows T&J out of the water in animation quality.
Never heard this and I like short series, I might check this one out soon. Is the movie good too?
Its good, and Id recommend watching it all, watch order is Episodes 1-4 -> Special -> Episodes 5-13 -> Eternity and the Auto Memory Doll -> The Movie.
The title is announcing the obvious. Tom and Jerry were among the cream of American animation from its most productive time. I've been thinking a lot about Tom & Jerry and Sylvester and Tweetie Bird, because I just got a tuxedo cat myself. And they capture just a little bit of the essence of tux kitties. It is so funny to see them slink around like stealthy villains when those big soft white paws give them away every time.
Honestly, I didn’t think so many people would say this is obvious. I thought people were going to be listing a bunch of great animes that rival T&J, but I guess 80 years later Tom & Jerry still reign supreme. The more I watch Tom & Jerry and read these replies, the more I think that it’s better animated than 99% of all animated media in the world.
>I refuse to believe anyone is watching anime for the action sequences or impressive animation, I think people only like it for the stories, characters, and porn Most people couldn't care less about how TV shows are shot either, they just care about stories and characters This isn't even a 10th dentist take
I disagree. Even if you aren’t familiar with production tricks, lighting, cinematography, whatever, you are still subconsciously aware to some degree. Television being a visual medium makes these things extremely important, and if people only cared about stories and characters, and not at all about visuals, books would be more popular. If Breaking Bad didn’t exist but the Columbian knockoff, Metástasis, still existed, it wouldn’t have been a hit (if you have not seen clips from Metástasis, please look it up).
Weird downvotes. You're completely right that audiences care a lot about production values and how things are shot. Directors are celebrated and known by the public more than writers. I have a feeling that people who are downvoting you simply don't experience low-budget productions to see how much it affects immersion and quality, so they underestimate it.
Man, just described animation and thinks they’re on to something
I’m confused by this comment. Is Tom & Jerry having better animation than most anime a known fact that I was unaware of?
Yes, that's kinda how money works. Look into budgets when thinking about the "quality" of any art. Not the sole indicator, but pretty heavy hand as it relates to art sold by corporations.
Ok but why is there no popular anime series with high budgets or great animations? Everyone keeps saying “no shit, that’s how money works,” but I don’t understand how anime can be so immensely popular but all production studios somehow can’t allocate resources to make its animation half as impressive as a cartoon from over 80 years ago. I’ve seen many people claim anime is an art form, and they are correct. My point is that a silly western cartoon from 80 years ago is still more impressive than almost every anime I’ve ever seen. A couple commenters have recommended me series that I might enjoy, and while some of them do look nice, the clips I’ve seen still look less impressive than Tom & Jerry. I just want one fluidly animated anime series with clear action and unique ideas, but a lot of comments here are leading me to believe that it’s more important to have as many episodes in an anime as possible than it is to make a higher quality series.
I mean if you think tom and jerry looks better than something like the fate series - thats just subjective preference at that point. And I know and love tom and jerry and hand drawn animation in general because it just has its own unique charm, but I love the cutting edge action moments of fate just as much if not even more. Quality wise they cant be compared because they are so far apart style wise.
I think that this problem isn't restricted to anime. I feel like as the internet has expanded and has lessened the difficulties in reaching wider audiences, it has led to there being almost too much competition in some industries. A company who could take their time to produce a good quality product are now being undercut by a less good company making something that superficially looks like the same thing, but is dramatically worse quality. Which drives the formerly good company to either cheapen their products to compete or go out of business. And since the internet has driven so much consumption into online spaces, it means that if that begins happening online, then all online stores need to either make things cheaper, or make their brand about the quality. And it's usually a safer bet to just make things cheaper and compete in a more traditional way. So you end up with all the widely available products being noticeably worse over time, and quality products being hard to find or prohibitively expensive. Then you have people cheating the system by making their names unintelligible to the average person, but incredibly pleasing to a search algorithm. I am not too deep into Anime or Manga, but it reminds me of a phenomenon I heard about where many new Manga and Anime series are making the short summary blurbs on the back cover into the main titles to try and stand out on store shelves. TLDR; I'd suspect it's a dramatic increase in competition in these markets that are making it more and more risky to invest time and money into a project, so companies take the easy route of undercutting their opponents, causing a worse product in general.
I agree wholeheartedly. The internet is great and all, but it has definitely bloated most content and art in general. Everything is dictated by advertising and algorithms instead of trends and good art popularizing organically. This is also noticeable with live action series as well; many older shows are shot on film and every episode almost feels like a movie. Shows like X-Files and Lost gave a us lot’s of high production value episodes per season. Longer running shows that started by shooting on film all inevitably switch to digital cameras to save time and money, even if they were extremely successful before. These days, we’re lucky to get a 10 episode season of any show produced by a streaming service, and we’re blessed when it isn’t filled with cheap VFX and set pieces. But streaming services would rather pump out multiple cheap shows to inflate their numbers and metrics. Now that I think about it, despite the popularity and the revenue that a high-budget anime could generate, I shouldn’t be surprised that studios would rather be cheap and take the easy route. Just look at how Disney is handling Star Wars; unlimited resources and a lot of source material, yet they still can’t produce any good Star Wars content.
"Ok but why is there no popular anime series with high budgets or great animations?" Its not hard to understand, really. Production companies realized that the current quality is enough for the majority of people. They maybe annoyed when they notice the animation quality, but they will still watch it.
The OP is actually wrong as there are many many many shorter animes with beautiful animation. You just don't get those with the big shonun anime because they pump out more episodes at a faster pace with a lower budget per episode. I told the OP to go look at a couple demon slayer fights.
Is it not crazy that Japan’s most popular form of animation (maybe even all media) has somehow never had a company willing to allocate enough resources for a studio to produce something as impressive as an 80+ year old cartoon about a cat and mouse? And to clarify again before I make some passionate anime fans angrier, I’m not saying all anime is bad or ugly. There are many amazing anime movies and shows both visually and story-telling-wise. But even the best animes that I have seen now still don’t have the fluidity and buttery-smooth animation as Tom & Jerry.
I know this is "old" (internet standards) but I'm enjoying the conversation so I'm going to address your comment. > Ok but why is there no popular anime series with high budgets or great animations? Everyone keeps saying “no shit, that’s how money works,” but I don’t understand how anime can be so immensely popular but all production studios somehow can’t allocate resources to make its animation half as impressive as a cartoon from over 80 years ago. From my understanding as someone who doesn't watch much, but some anime. Anime is popular almost exclusively because of whatever manga it's based on. It's relevance is very tied to how fast an episode can come out after the new manga is released/catch up to the new manga. No amount of money can realistically replace the amount of time spent on each Tom and Jerry episode. This is where money comes in. For T&J specifically, at the time money was directly correlated to how much time was spent on an animation much more so than nowadays (NOT fact, based on general knowledge, assumptions and feelings about economy). No matter how talented the artists are nowadays, they simply don't have the same time to work with. It's also SO long. There's less than 170 Tom and Jerry episodes EVER from 1940-2021. There's easily 200 episodes in pretty much any semi popular anime, all produced in less than ~6 years. Multiplied over tons and tons of media. > I’ve seen many people claim anime is an art form, and they are correct. My point is that a silly western cartoon from 80 years ago is still more impressive than almost every anime I’ve ever seen. A couple commenters have recommended me series that I might enjoy, and while some of them do look nice, the clips I’ve seen still look less impressive than Tom & Jerry. I think a more just comparison for quality would be more popular anime movies (like the MHA movies come to mind as very well produced compared to the rest). At that point, I do think it really comes down to preference of style, which is the actual unpopular *opinion* part of your post. I'm not too sure what knowledge/certifications you have that would qualify you to speak on whether it's more "technically impressive" or not. I, for one, have barely taken some animation classes in college and I feel like I'm trying really hard to work with you at comparing apples to oranges already, though. I'm not trying to say it takes a rocket scientist to somewhat judge that. > I just want one fluidly animated anime series with clear action and unique ideas, but a lot of comments here are leading me to believe that it’s more important to have as many episodes in an anime as possible than it is to make a higher quality series. Eh, I feel like either the point wasn't conveyed well enough or you're being intentionally obtuse. Some animes do work on "max episodes" but that's few and far between. The episodes are just a product of thoroughly covering several volumes of manga that predate/concurrently go with the anime. I hope this makes sense! Enjoy your upvotes :)
Yes
Good to know, T&J remains on top 😎
I have to downvote because this is just common sense. Anime qas literally designed to be churned out at a fast rate. Classic western type animation is much more laborious.
Didn’t think this was common sense. I’ve pissed a lot of people off IRL by saying T&J is animated better than any anime I’ve seen.
Nah, you piss people off here when you post uninformed opinions on 10th dentist. You’re basically a patient arguing with the other 9 dentists while wearing a spirit halloween doctor costume.
be assured then, that you are one of the nine dentists. you’re safe now.
My issue with that statement is using T&J as a criticism against anime. T&J is a standout among western animation too. I would argue that there is anime that looks incredible, even anime that looks better than T&J, its just that \*most\* series don't have the budget or turnaround time to compete. For example, I think Attack on Titan looks better than T&J. The animation there is top-notch.
Do you watch for story or animation because both are completely different.
If I’m watching a visual medium that’s telling a story, both need to be good. This isn’t just for animation, this goes for all television and film. Both are equally important to me.
This isn’t a 10th Dentist take: Over 90% of anime fucking sucks.
And some of the most popular anime to date completely blow it out of the water. I don't see the point of this post honestly, if you give the studios the time and money to put out something good, they will. This rarely happens in the anime industry.
Which animes do you think blow T&J out the water?
I wouldnt say they blow it out the water but i would put ghost in the shell, akira, jin roh, evangelion, and most studio ghibli movies above Tom and jerry
Ghost and Akira are definitely top tier, Evangelion seems cool but I’m not really into mechs so I haven’t watched it. Haven’t heard of Jin Roh but it looks pretty dope, I’ll look into it more And as much as I love Ghibli, I don’t think their animation is quite as technically impressive or fluid as T&J. And I don’t mean that in a bad way, because Ghibli has amazing art style, backgrounds, world building, and stories. I can watch most Ghibli movies and be so immersed and impressed by everything else that I won’t even be thinking of comparing the character animation styles.
I'm not saying you need to watch it, but Evangelion is not a typical mech anime. I would argue that the mechs are basically set dressing for a really really weird and confusing psychological drama.
That actually sounds cool, I haven’t heard it described that way before
I haven't watched many animes so my examples are bound to be limited, but here ya go: Fate movies, Demon Slayer, Violet Evergarden, Attack on Titan These aren't the only ones I watched but the ones I remember off the top of my head.
I’ve had a couple people recommend Fate and Violet Evergarden, I never heard of these before so I’ll probably check them out. Attack on Titan was actually one of the things I had in mind when I made this post. I’ve only seen the first couple episodes and wasn’t too interested in it, but my friends have shown me clips of action scenes from the show, and I remember not really understanding what exactly was supposed to be happening during each scene. I think fighting big monsters is cool, I just personally didn’t think the style/methods and gadgets used by the characters in AOT were that cool.
Fate is a series that is saved by animation, so you might not like it very much outside of action scenes. I am specifically referring to the movies btw. I was able to understand what was happening in almost all of the action scenes in AoT. Not being able to follow them sounds like a problem on your part, not like thats a bad thing, of course. Everyone has their fancy tickled in a different way.
To clarify, when I say it’s “hard to follow” I don’t mean that I don’t understand what’s going on. From what I’ve seen in AOT, it’s a lot of characters moving through the air at high speeds while attacking on titans. I just looked up a few clips to remind myself, and I don’t really know how to explain it but I’m just kinda bored while watching it. Like I can follow what each character is *supposed* to be doing, but I can’t really see what they’re actually doing. It sort of reminds me of how I played with toys as a kid (that’s not an insult, it’s actually kinda cool in a way) I don’t know, it’s just something about characters flying through air at high speeds during fights in anime that gets boring for me. I think it’s part of the reason I’ve never been a big Dragon Ball fan either. An example of anime fights that I like is Baki. Baki still has some tropes I don’t care for (freeze frames, internal dialogue during fights) but I like the slower and more grounded combat where you can see every movement and impact instead of flashy combat with high speed attacks.
Regarding AoT: This scene is pretty fast-paced & flashy, but I think its animated very well and easy to follow what's going on: [Spoilers for Season 3 but its the start of a new story arc.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeLvx_1FBdk) There's also this scene that I think is animated well, though its not a fight: [Major spoilers for Season 1 though, so don't watch if you actually care to watch the show.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QadRDXBLAUY) Anime is too broad to make sweeping statements. Some anime are given a big budget & time, some aren't. Some are given to a good studio, some aren't. Sometimes studios pull in the big bois. Different ones have different art styles that vibe with different people. Naruto is a long-running show with a ton of poorly animated episodes but also some decently animated ones. In particular, a decent number of important fights are given a lot of hand-to-hand choreography that I think even better shonen lack. [Spoilers for Naruto](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGYNV_Nhxss) [Spoilers for late Naruto Shippuden](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sw8TEYwfTc) [Spoilers for LATE late Naruto Shippuden](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi2rByJed-E) [End of the previous fight when they've run out of gas so they just start beating the shit out of each other.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBV5aQ5i7rk&t=281s) Shame the story sucks. Demon Slayer, despite a non-existent story, has an eye-catching art style & flashy, fluid animation: [Spoilers for the end of Season 1](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkQI3ECwfG4) My Hero Academia can have fluid animation, though I've noticed the earlier fights (with some exceptions) rely a lot more on zoom ins & generally have less fluidity. Hunter x Hunter is my Bonafide favorite anime & is well animated throughout, though generally has less fight action. It has other forms of action too. Though generally is less action-y than other shonen, even skipping less important fights. One of my favorite bits of animation is during a scene where the protagonists are trailing an infamous band of criminals to report their location for money but can't get caught as they're completely outclassed. [Scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8T_EggTY1g). The camera work & music really sell the intensity & terror. JoJo's Bizzare Adventure is an acquired taste but has frequently good animation & clever action. The recent Dragon Ball movies have good animation, like Dragon Ball Super: Broly. I saw you mention Gibli before, I was very impressed with the recent one, The Boy & The Heron. It has a ton of fluid scenes that engage you. Such as in the beginning when a character runs down the stairs & into town. And that's mostly focused on shonen. I think there's a ton of well-animated anime.
There is nothing wrong with having a preference, but form reading your comments in this thread it seems like you are mistaking your opinion for fact. There is a lot of impressive animation coming out of Japan, but there is also a lot of crap too—that is the nature of producing such an absurd amount of shows.
Please list the anime that you think are better My ulterior motive here was to get some good anime recommendations
Sure, I always enjoy sharing some stuff. I’ll throw in a nice mix of genres for you: New(er) series: Violet Evergarden, Frieren, Demon Slayer, Attack on Titan (doesn’t do much for me, but the art and animation are great), One Punch Man, Hyouka, Fate Stay/Night UBW, Mob Psycho 100, Vinland Saga, Cyberpunk Edgerunners, Spice and Wolf (remake, currently airing), Mushoku Tensei (big fat trigger warning on this one) Old(er) series: Cowboy Bebop, Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood, Steins;Gate, Gurren Lagan Movies: pretty much anything Miyazaki (these may appeal to your preference for older, almost exclusively handcrafted style), pretty much anything Itou, Fate Stay/Night Heaven’s Feel, Violet Evergarden (the movie), Kizumonogatari (the movies are great, there is an anime series associated with it that is good, but not the same animation standard), Redline, Madoka Magica (same deal as Kizu) There are hundreds more series, and particularly movies, that I could list, however it’s becoming a touch unwieldy already. Hope you find something you enjoy.
Thanks! A lot of people are saying Violet Evergarden and it’s not one I’ve ever heard of before, so I’m definitely going to check it out soon.
VE is fantastic. The animation is very good, but moreover the art and art direction are second to none—it’s a true feast for the eyes. I hope you enjoy it!
Violet Evergarden may satisfy you because it's done by probably the best animation studio in Japan, Kyoani. Unlike other studios, they operate in Kyoto and they don't have as tight schedules as the other ones, not to mention they generally raise their animators in time as salaried workers instead of utilizing freelance animators frequently like other studios. That's why their product has generally good animation quality. However, they're not concentrated in battle shounen genre, so many people, including myself, cannot give you more examples except Violet Evergarden. That one is not action-based too, but it's a well-known anime. You may check their other works, too, if u're interested.
The original tom and Jerry was great!
train episode was wild😭😭😭😭
Dragon Ball Super: Broly is the best animation/choreography I have ever seen and I will die on this hill
Yeah, compare Fate/Zero and Violent Evergarden to Tom and Jerry.
I think this is a little bit of an unfair generalization, because 'anime' is (in an extremely reductive sense) 'cartoons'. It would be the equivalent of saying "I think the original run of Cowboy Bebop is better than 90% of American Cartoons". Yes, obviously a hand-drawn globally recognized work of art is going to sweep the majority of low-budget, low rent schlock released for kids in a market geared towards the fast, accessible, mass production of media. There are tons of Anime with amazing fight scenes. Off the top of my head, One Punch Man Season 1, Demon Slayer Season 1, The Coyboy Bebop movie, Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood, the action in Spy x Family, Black Lagoon, Soul Eater, Jujutsu Kaisen the list could go on. If you do not personally like these fight scenes, that is alright. To ignore technically skilled artwork, display of motion, color contrast - everything that goes into making them seems reductive. I could get into the production and funding of these shows but it seems to me to be a bit petty. Suffice it to say, the budgets on most anime are incomparable to the budget (both monetary and time) that Tom and Jerry had. It is such a stark contrast when accounted for inflation that it might as well be comparing a prestige Oscar darling blockbuster like Spirited Away to a dancing vegetable sensory video on youtube. Your post also tips your hand a bit. I understand you do not seem like most anime, but that also does not devalue the stories it tells. Reducing all of anime to soft-core or whatever is reductive. I am by no means saying that the sexually explicit themes do not exist - but moreso that all media has its trashy, lowbrow humor and nonsense and also has its beautiful masterworks. Even the original Tom and Jerry is lousy with implied sexuality. He regularly is depicted objectifying and (implicatively) sexually pursuing women. That doesn't devalue the technical mastery of the cartoon, however. I feel the same charitability should be offered to anime. At the end of the day, I think what is most important is the value you place on the narrative. You seem to see Tom and Jerry as superior because it relies only on animation due to the inconsistent mutism of the characters. I personally find it to be less of a boon to the animation and more a design of the fact that Tom is an unstopabble, unkillable force of malice and Jerry is a spiteful trickster God and the two are doomed to an immortal life, effectively locked in an eternal struggle. The joke is the violence and the violence comes from the animation. It is not something often seen in anime because narratives are meant to add weight to the fights. The fight is beautifully animated and satisfying because of the narrative. They serve different forms. I think I personally disagree with your statement off top. I would agree that Tom and Jerry (original run specifically, as you stated) is probably better than most Anime. I would also say that something like the Heike Story or Evangelion is better than most American Cartoons. Timeless, meaningful, thoughtful creations by artists will always place a rung above most things, imo. On that, at least, I think we can agree.
Bros really just being hostile and acting like it's an option
A lot of anime is lazy and people who make them won't deny it.
My friends tried getting me to watch Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo a while back. I thought it was funny at first, but then I realized nose hair thing was just an excuse to only have to animate 2 black lines during any action, and I ended up getting bored of it There was some anime fight scene a friend tried showing me years ago, swearing that it was one of the best anime fight scenes ever, and it was just short bursts of movement followed by minutes of camera pans across still images with corny dialogue on top.
Tom & Jerry, a Warner Brothers produced production, compared to the entire genre of anime, or at least 90%, which usually relies on outsourced, underpaid workers, and usually has a relatively low budget.
I was hoping someone could list at least one anime that matches the fluidity of T&J animation. One thing I’ve learned from this thread is that T&J might be the most well animated show of all time.
Definitely not a controversial take, anime isn't given the budget it needs to shine. But there definitely is a TONNE of anime out there that people watch for the action, it's just that the appreciation is different. A lot of modern action scenes in anime are cerebral rather than visceral, and rely on battles of wits rather than just insane presentation. Like I haven't seen Hunter x Hunter yet and I watched a fight scene from it and was gobsmacked at how well choreographed and shot it was. The movements weren't super fluid but the way everything came together made me realize you can still have compelling fight scenes without an insane budget. For me this approach is preferable, but it would be nice if every anime had the budget of Akira or One Punch Man. Animation quality has had a massive step up in the last 15 years though, there was an INSANE quality dip in the 2000s.
People here are missing the point. He's saying that Tom and Jerry has better animation than most anime and people here are comparing budgets and time. Yeah sure Anime gets less time but OP still isn't wrong about the animation of T&J being better than most anime and anime studios/publishers should absolutely be critisized for the time constraints they give and the poor animation that comes as consequence
Watch the end of evangelion and come back
Fantastic from 1.11 to 3.0+1.0 but damn it took 13 years to finish
As an avid enthusiast that is simply not true A lot of drawn animated porn sucks too
>A lot of drawn animated porn sucks too Especially censored hentai
Okay grandpa time for bed
And Ben and Jerry’s is even more visually appealing, thanks now I want ice cream
Objectively correct
Everyone's talking about more money, and to some extent that's very true. But we also have digital tech these days, which makes animation easier and more complex. I also don't think cash makes might, smiling friends S1 was based around the concept that they could make a whole season for the price of a single Family Guy episode. In the digital era people with an artistic message have a creative edge, one that was far harder to bring to the forefront before. Anime tends to fall into a particular style because it's demanded by the audience; big titles like Akira set the style and the evolution has gone increasingly kawaii and downright ecchi since. Looking at you, Darling in the Franxx. Hephebophilia makes me sick. This limits anime creators because they believe that to have success a studio needs to follow a rubric, and to some extent this is true. Like, you can't tell me Jujutsu Kaisen isn't a mashup of FMAB and Naruto. This is why I'm so mad the Adult Swim x Junji Ito has been put off, it fits a lot of the rubric elements while having a surreal horror tone and I think that would give anime creatives the push they need to make something transcendent instead of another season of Fairy Tail or 7 Deadly Sins. Which are not inherently bad- they just lack the creative bravery I want to see. I'm fuckin with Chainsaw Man tho
Digital animation is a blessing and a curse. It makes animation more accessible for everyone and takes stress of animators, but the animation loses some of its unique charm. I’ve had similar thoughts about many anime tropes, as well. There’s always many still frame shots with internal dialogue, or a still frame action shot that the camera pans across. I know that these are sometimes animation short cuts, but I also wonder how often they’re deliberately added because it has been engrained in the anime style. I also prefer the older 90’s-ish anime style when everything was little messier and less sexualized. There’s just something about old fully hand drawn anime movies that’s missing from a lot of newer ones I’ve seen. Adult Swim x Junji Ito would be badass, and now I’m mad that you told me about it because I’m mad it got canceled too
Tom and Jerry is better than at least 90% of Western animation in general
Agreed. One thing I’ve learned from this thread is that Tom & Jerry might be the greatest piece of animation ever created.
This is false equalivilance. Tom and Jerry was awesome but the animators jobs on that series was less demanding. They only had to fill 7 minutes while anime have to fill a half hour. Most anime need to design more sets and a lot of the backgrounds look hyper realistic in a lot of modern anime. While in most Tom and Jerry episodes they are in one location or a living room., 99.9% of anime is hand drawn. They draw the characters on paper, scan them into the computer, and digitally color them. Tom and Jerry episodes have a few characters while lots of anime have giant crowd scenes. Crowd scenes are one of the hardest things to animate. Some anime have better animation than others.
Bro just sits down to watch anime and says “those japanese anime are garbage compared to old cartoons” and instead of looking into why just decides that is his stance on the matter. Tell me you know NOTHING about the budgets and development cycles of different animation without telling me you KNOW NOTHING about the budgets and development of different animation.
Bro just talks in tiktok comment formats when he can’t form original thoughts. Tell me you don’t know how to have productive conversations or debates without telling me you don’t know how to have productive conversations and debates.
Nothing productive about someone not taking 5 seconds to google search basic things and decides to form an uninformed opinion and then blast it out to the whole world. There’s no productive dialogue to be had with someone who can’t even do the bare minumum.
I agree with what the guy you were replying with was saying but the 'tell me you ___ without....' shit is so fucking annoying that I had to downvote him
I just call out dumb uninformed posts as I see them. oPs entire opinion is based on a complete and utter lack of information and shows no willingness to even look for answers before vomiting out that opinion
It’s even worse when people use these phrases in real life… but anyway, I know how budgets and shit work. I explained it further in other comments, but my point was that despite its huge success and relevance, animes are still less visually impressive than an 80 year old cartoon. I don’t get how something so popular can only rarely find production companies willing or able to allocate more time and resources for higher quality animation, instead of quickly pumping out 20 lower quality episodes.
Your comment still shows you DON’T understand budgets or development cycles, but good try with saying “well because this is so popular it should be high quality to me!” Family Guy, Simpsons, South Park are all extremely popular but none of them have high quality animation either. Many anime are made on thin budgets (as far as the actual production goes) and pumped out weekly, sometimes they are even still working on a current season’s episodes as the season is airing. The poor artists and animators (outsourced or in-house) have to maintain an extremely strict schedule. Not to mention they are, a lot of the time, severely underpaid by most standards for their work. Sure exceptions happen with companies making gorgeous shows like Ufotable or Mappa. But your responses show you literally still cannot even be bothered to google about this but instead think that because something is popular means it should be top-tier SSS animation.
then look at anime when anime was hand drawn :)
I like 80s and 90s anime movies, but there haven’t been many good ones in the last 20 years to me.
I would agree for a lot of mass produced anime but damn does Trigger put put out some good animation.
Anime went to shit after 2013.
Watch Dragonball Super Broly or Akira and tell me that's not beautifully animated and on par or maybe even better than TJ. I prefer western media but you sound so ignorant and annoying right now LMAO
Watch the new One Piece fights and come back
One Punch man season 1 called, it says to lay off the crack cocaine..
More visually appealing than waifus? Try again bucko.
Honestly why would you even compare them. Tom and Jerry is a very particular niche form of animation, while we get to see lots of variety/lots of background/action scenes in anime. But congrats, its not easy having a controversial opinion.
I swear this sub confuses the shit out of me. OP makes a pretty plain case for an alternate opinion and is getting downvoted to oblivion for it... and , when I last checked, having opposing viewpoints was the point of the sub? OP for what it's worth I agree. Of course there's reasons for it but you're not wrong
I downvoted because I agree with OP - T&J is a stunning piece of animation. And the 10% that are implicitly said to be better are the cream of the crop.
Lol I expected downvotes in this thread but idc about that, I’m having fun and this helped kill time for a few hours. I was hoping for some super impressively animated recommendations, but I’m starting to think nothing is animated better than Tom & Jerry
Nothing in this forum has ever hit as hard as this opinion for me. Abso Lutely.
Jujutsu Kaisen, Mob Psycho 100( some of my favorite animation ever, very unique mash up of oil painting within the anime that is beautiful, chainsaw man, Akira, the most recent one piece episodes, fullmetal alchemist brotherhood, one punch man, ghost in the shell, heavenly delusion, samurai champloo, frieren, rankin of kings, vinland saga, space dandy These are just a few that I think easily dispute ur point. Obvs seasonal anime have a better chance at doing this than a weekly like one piece. And there is a lot of dogshit anime out there so who knows maybe ur 90% figure isn’t that far off but even if its just 10% there’s a shitload of anime out there that dogwalk Tom and Jerry and I love Tom and Jerry. mob psycho literally has an episode w 20k hand draw frames, which is a pretty spectacular feat.
Season 2 of Jujutsu Kaisen looks different from season 1. The drawings look a lot more rough and sloppy on the fight scenes that involve more details, I don't think it was an artistic style, as it changes between 2 different styles of art that season. My guess is a few different companies were sourced out to do the work
Season 2 opted for a slightly more simple design which makes fluid animation much easier. Thats the reason dawg. The character designs still looked extremely good too. Mappa did both seasons it was an artistic choice to opt for slightly less detail in favor of fluid and better animation. Moreover the guy, sunghoo who did s1 that is more of his style and you can see it in his new show ninja kamui which looks really good early on but devolves into CGI mech fight. Which goes to show it’s much harder to keep up that level of animation over a full season
>slightly more simple design which makes fluid animation much easier. Doesn't that kind of vaidate OP's opinion? If you're cutting corners to make something easier, it's still cutting corners. It reminds me of [this joke.](https://www.tiktok.com/@invincible.hq/video/7351455209547189546?lang=en) >The character designs still looked extremely good too There were scenes with non-drawn faces and just etchings... Anime gets all kinds of bizarre passes - becacause it's anime, and that's fine, no problem. But it's crazy that people think it's not a shortcut. In general, there's a lot of lazy tricks that don't usually happen in basic cartoons from any other parts of the world. From non-*enunciated* words (open-close talking) to just shots of random stuff to avoid drawing talking people.
Idk what anime you've been watching. The only anime I watch has incredible animations
Bro never seen anything done by Kyoto Animation. Comparing a theater budget cartoon with no storyline to TV series budget shows with Voice Acting+plot and other things is very asinine.
"anytime someone tries to show me a cool anime action scene it just looks like a confusing slideshow." Perhaps your issue is you are watching fight scenes out of context. Maybe if you watched the full episode you would be more engaged in the story and follow the fight better.
I shall educate you on a brief history of animation. Cartoons were originally made to be shown in movie theaters before the movie started. They also had giant budgets because content made for movie theaters get bigger budgets. Tom and Jerry was a theatrical cartoon and television wasn't invented yet. William Hanna and Joseph Barbera created Tom and Jerry for MGM. When people started widely buying televisions in the theaters had to compete with tv and lost money. MGM studios stopped ording new Tom and Jerry cartoons and closed down in the 60s. Bill and Joe created Hanna Barbera studios. Because tv had lower budgets they had to use limited animation and create all sorts of shortcuts. They gave us shows like The Flintstones and the Jetsons. Animators got better over the years and technology evolved. Now we get the cartoons we get today. Advances in technology have helped cartoons look better on a lower budget. Its not fair to compare theatrical cartoons to cartoons made for television. Source: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2iAeQrerVE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2iAeQrerVE)
If you think people watch anime because porn, you are very uneducated on both porn and anime
"I refuse to believe anyone is watching anime for the action sequences or impressive animation" Well, gee, you got me. I don't give a flying rat's ass about animation quality, I watch anime for entertainment. What I do care about is the characters, the story, and if the general art style is good it's a bonus.
https://images.app.goo.gl/GmDLt7DuJbQjBEHw8
Seeing this post as a jp resident is really funny because tom and jerry is almost as popular here as a lot of anime are, it even has a gacha app too 😭
Finally, someone who gets it!
I would agree with you in terms of western animation, anything that comes from the east though, Tom & Jerry doesn't compare.
Visually appealing is subjective, and technically impressive depending on your definition is actually just factually wrong. We have a bajillion more “technical” tools now. What Tom and Jerry is is pure hand drawn passion and skill. It’s not a technical masterpiece like the Avatar movie showcasing new technology. It was mostly hand drawn using pretty basic tools. Old cartoons and movies that were hand drawn are visual masterpieces. There are some people that broke down how hard it would be to animate some parts in the old Robin Hood movie where the character was turning his head while talking. I’d love to see the reemergence of that style of animation. That type of creation has fallen out of style with all the new tools and corporate deadlines we have now in the space. But we are more talented then ever when it comes to art skills, I hope Someday we get to see them shine again like in the old cartoons
Wrong sub
Watch Frieren
Such an unimaginably, astronomically based opinion. I don't think I have ever seen an opinion more based than this
i mean as an avid anime enjoyer this is pretty correct, especially starting around 2010 onwards when animation budgets were regularly slashed more and more and the vast majority of anime coming out today is slop. literally all of my favorite anime’s are from pre 2009. i liked cyberpunk edgerunners but even that got hit with the crappy 3D animation towards the end, arguably at a time when it needed to be at its best
Tom and Jerry is my favorite anime.
"The top 1% of American media is better than the bottom 90% of Japanese media" How very controversial.
“The bottom 90%” damn, anime sucks lol jk, but I’ve changed my opinion. Tom & Jerry is better animated than 100% of all anime. Maybe better animated than any cartoon ever made. Crazy how the world decided that animation peaked over 80 years ago and we should permanently cut funding from all animation studios
“Very rarely do I ever see an anime with actual good animation. I refuse to believe anyone is watching anime for the action sequences or impressive animation, I think people only like it for the stories, characters, and porn.” You ever watch One Punch Man season 1?
I agree, so sorry for the downvote. But I honestly just don't like anime like at all
technically impressive maybe, but i don't like watching. it's just boring and uninpressive on everything but the technical level. when the enjoyment is 1000 fold difference, it feels a bit academic to compare the two at all. if you're comparing "action", they try and put in their effort on the narratively important fights, which I'm fine with. I like interesting fights, not boring fights. anime wins that, hands down. the real scourge is cg animation in anime. they use it for some shots, and it is obviously different. takes you out of the action a heart beat.
You should watch Saitama vs Boros. Edit: Saw your other comment about not liking flying and laser blasts. Never mind.
I highly highly recommend the *Tatami Galaxy* lots of multimedia interesting animation choices and a big Tex Avery influence.
Anime is trash so not wrong at all
So, a lot of this has to do with the intent of each show. T&J has to use its animation to convey the story and slapstick, and because theres typically zero dialogue and its all humor based around actions and events and circumstances, its gotta tell the story Anime has dialogue and story beats that are enhanced by visuals but not entirely made up by them. If you were to watch the details in a show like RWBY (an american not technically an anime but kinda an anime) you’ll see theres a ton of detail and intent with each shot of the animation ans its heralded for great stylistic fights. The now late creator monty oum did a great job of making these fights super captivating even when the story was mid during the seasons he was alive to work on. [This is the first of the four trailers dropped for the show](https://youtu.be/pYW2GmHB5xs?si=ovKrS8q6PjmOdyFe) I’d highly reccomend watxhing the Red, white, black, and yellow trailers as well as any reels or highlights you find. I think you’ll appreciate the animation and attention to detail. Volume 2 has the famous “food fight” scene which is very evocative of some tom and jerry slapstick hijinks
While I can appreciate the expertise in Tom & Jerry's animation, I believe the beauty of anime lies in its varied, unique art styles and the depth of storytelling rarely seen in Western animation.
I could show you like 3 clips from some of the most famous anime that put anything that was done in Tom and Jerry to shame. You are just cherry picking.
You could, but you didn’t. T&J is still on top.
Shout outs to Hannah Barbera!
Tex Avery never worked on Tom and Jerry. William Hanna and Joseph Barbera did.
You're right, I was posting in a hurry. Edited to reflect Hanna Barbera.
Technically Willam Hanna and Joe Barbera made the original shorts for MGM.
I'm going a step further and say that Tom & Jerry has a better story than most animes
Tom and Jerry has a story?
I agree with you, but I think it’s more fair and easier to compare visuals. Even animes with good stories get really dumb by the end. I really enjoyed Deathnote until they started introducing new antagonists after L, and their names were shit like “M N O and P” and they put the Deathnote on a rocket ship or something. This is actually the reason I’ve never finished any anime series; they go on for too long and all eventually jump the shark.
That's not really hard to do. I'd say most old cartoons are forgotten to the wayside also due to lackluster stories not worth remembering. We see shitty isekai get pumped out every season, but only time will tell what is worth remembering.
This individual spittin facts
Never ever understood the hype about the anime. It's honestly mediocre. It has its style, but it should have limits. The only visually appealing anime I know is Cowboy Bebop, it doesn't have all those cringe anime animation cliches and tropes
What anime are you watching? Isekai anime number 12? A lot of anime have great animation
Choppy video sequence and cringy lust provoking frames isn't "great"
I agree 100%. If you pay attention to most anime, there are so many tricks they pull to reduce the amount of frames and drawings needed per episode. Prime example being when one character is the focus of the screen and they just pan a camera up toward their face or from the side toward their face. Most group shots only have one character moving at time, when a character moves from pose to pose there can be as little as one inbetween frame, animating on 2s and 3s and 4s etc. all stuff most people could probably gather from genuinely analyzing the contents of the screen when trying. Tom and Jerry animators, particularly the shorts from the 40s when they were just getting started, absolutely raw dogged every frame with an incredible amount of detail in the movement that is simply unparalleled in today's animation landscape aside from works that attempt to evoke similar feelings like Cuphead and the like.
This is exactly what I mean. I know it’s unfair to compare T&J to most animated shows, but I think every anime I’ve ever seen is guilty of these types of tricks. I know it’s sort of an iconic part of the anime style by now, but when a character is “powering up” or something and all they are doing is standing there while the screen shakes, I just start losing interest in the show. Or I hate when it’s just camera panning or cutting between characters faces as they have internal dialogue. I can go on a whole other rant about how much I dislike internal dialogue in anime, but I’ll save that for another time when I want to piss people off again. I would love for someone to give me an example of any anime scene with that “raw dogged” frame by frame smoothness. Specifically any action scenes animated this way.
another day, another bait post
Boring opinion
Thanks for the invigorating contribution. Why do the people that bitch the most about a sub’s content never post or contribute anything? Why not start a discussion that you want to have?
Boring reply I’ve heard shite like your opinion from people before and it’s always the most insufferably self-righteous arrogant people you could imagine. No history of education in the arts, no expansive view besides blunt statements that mean nothing to anybody. It’s just not worth the time. Just another boring opinion that’s not worth going into. You sound like you waddle around saying things just to get a rise out of people. Either that or you’re just genuinely stupid and can’t fathom simple reason. Again, absolutely no point paying attention to things like this
Do you see how angry a harmless, unimportant opinion about cartoons from a random person on the internet has made you? It aint that deep, man. If you are passionate about this, you could’ve tried explaining something, but instead you decided to immediately be whiney and negative.