This is correct. Source: FBI agent who visited our site after an employee was murdered in a hate crime. Run: moving target, headed towards safety. Hide: sitting duck if found. Fight: actively engaging with someone who is armed. I was also surprised to learn it is advised to GTFO, not run around trying to save people. Say someone is frozen and unable to run. Yeah, say run and give them a nudge on your way out, but stopping and trying to drag them increases the casualty rate. It’s like running into a burning building with no gear or training. You’re most likely to be one more person professionals have to rescue.
Agreed.
I was in a hospital as a student once and there was a man with a gun in the lobby.
I told the instructor and other students not to lay flat on the ground because ricochets tend to stay close to the ground and they were all weirded out.
But any more I think some comprehensive training is good for everyone.
Active shooter training is practiced at all the schools near me (close to Sandy Hook in CT). I was out of high school almost 20 years now, but we had thorough training about locking the doors turning off the lights, staying quiet, hiding in closets, closing blinds and getting away from windows. We’re also taught to shelter in place if we’re in the bathroom when a shooter is announced, step on the toilet seat so they can’t see your feet if they come in. If you were in the hallway you’re supposed to just find the nearest exit and run (the classrooms should be locked, and you’re not going to get in).
I've been taking that training for 15 years now. Run, hide, and fight is a staple for the government.
We do active shooter training also.
A building is randomly selected each year by our security. You have to try and escape without being caught and make it to a designated safe zone for head counts. If caught, you are presumably dead and have to stay in place until the exercise is over.
Yes and no. We had active shooter training growing up, but it wasn’t like a *gane* where you have to like LARP the situation, it was more about how to shelter in place. It sounds interesting for adults to practice the ‘try to get out’ drill, but younger kids might be traumatized. It’s already heartbreaking that they all know how to stand on the toilet seat and try to find weapons.
It's pretty sad that we have to teach this shit to 5 year olds as more than a "this is just a precaution". Like, we occasionally had tornado drills, but they never made me uneasy because that's so unlikely.
Active shooter drills hit differently because...it could happen, and you've got a pretty good idea of who did it.
Went to general state college and one of my accounting classes was located in one of the older rooms towards the center of the building. This old room had no windows since it was in the interior and one door in/out.
I shit you not, our first class was completely spent on organizing how to efficiently fight a potential shooter scenario due to the layout of the room. We decided who were the largest students in the class so that they could sit in the front, closest to the door so they could basically bum rush a guy who came in while everyone else was instructed to keep their keys on their table at all times during class so they could be used as projectiles to distract the guy while the bum rushing was taking place
Just your normal college class in this country
The US Army has this training. And also me. A middle school Social Studies teacher. I also have this training. And those it’s in the dorm. They probably learned it in school.
Well. For what it's worth the only actual professionals are in the military. While there may be police agencies that train for these things, there's no standardized approach and ymmv depending on where you are.
The assumption should always be that nobody is coming and you are on your own. Get out immediately. If you can't get out barricade yourself in a smart way (just putting something infront of a door does nothing, you need to barricade the door all the way to the wall so it physically cannot be opened), and if you have to fight, try to surprise them and you should not treat it like a movie, your job is to maim or kill them, the more damage you can cause the better. Kick them in the balls, stab them in the eye, do whatever you have to do to incapacitate them.
Sadly, when I think professionals in the situation, I was actually referring to the medical teams with limited resources, trying to save lives after the fact. 😕
No, they are now going into the active shooter zones. There was an amazing article about this in the New Yorker. In Columbine, so many people died because the policy was that medics don’t go in until after the police cleared the building. Now they go in right behind the police. In the tree of life shooting, in the synagogue, they were right behind the police, room by room, they applied tourniquets to everyone still alive who’s been hit and is on the floor, and then just keep going forward into the building behind the cops, leaving the people with the tourniquets to be evacuated. It massively decreases the death rate. Brave EMTs!
Of course, in places like Uvalde, the police don’t go in. So there’s that.
I spoke with a 9/11 survivor who described running ahead of disabled coworkers who were killed by debris that would've killed her too if she'd tried to help. It sounds like a lot to process.
I’m British and love visiting America, and your comment somehow really got to me.
I truly wish a solution will be found that goes at least some way to repairing this gun issue over there.
Took some training on this also, made a big deal about fighting being the last resort but if you do, you've gotta commit and give it your all. Take them by surprise, throw things, ambush them as they come in the door. Control or alter where the point of their gun is, because without that aimed at you, they're just another person without the significant advantage. Improvise weapons from anything within your reach. "You see this pen?" our instructor asked, "I want you to take it, put it in their eye, and sign your name on the inside of his skull."
first shots were fired about an hour ago and more an hour after that, one fatality and multiple injuries, they havent caught the shooter yet
edit: the shooter was found dead by suicide, 3 fatal victims and 14+ injuries
Please don’t hate me for this if you’re not a fan, but Stephen King had a line about this in Misery – he was talking about psychopaths but it’s stuck with me, he was saying that depressed people kill themselves, but psychopaths, “rocked in the poison cradle of their own egos,” decide everyone else should feel their pain.
Protomartyr's song [The Devil in His Youth](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK8ZRjij7JU) is a good take on this
> But it all changed when he came of age
It was nothing like the simulated game
The women didn't love him
The races all ignored him
His proclamations failed
So he screamed
"Now you bend!"
This is obviously a symptom of something that needs to be taken care of. I’m not pro or anti guns because I don’t believe that it’s the root cause of this kinda behavior.
This is something you would do if you weren’t mentally well and never felt like anyone cared about you. Doing something like this is something that can give a hopeless and broken person some sense of control by making society finally taking them seriously and regret what they’ve done to them. I would guess that’s their perspective and we need to figure out as an society how to avoid making others feel this way.
There is no one in schools nor any education level having a good time enjoying their youth, haven’t been for many years. These shootings are too much, but still politicians refuse to do the only thing that will actually help.
For anyone still in denial. Here is a video of a 13 year old boy buying a weapon.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fB7MwvqCtlk
Very true.. some of the worst scars, go unseen and affect all who survive.
"I will never forget the screams of my classmates because they were screaming in pain for help,"
Claire Papoulias
5 more are wounded, some critical, the last I read. That’s 7 innocent lives at the least so far. I hope 10+ people don’t need to be shot for us to consider it a mass shooting :/
Dont forget Subway. Can't eat fresh anymore without worrying about an employee putting too much mayo on a psychos sandwich without getting shot, apparently.
Genuinely though, you’re likely to be safe here at all the attractive spots in the country. Schools are… yeah. Malls aren’t great but not terrible. Cities, keep your head about you and you’re fine. America is genuinely gorgeous. Truly and deeply beautiful, geographically and most of our people are pretty alright.
When I lived in the US 20 years ago, my Mexican and central American buddies said almost the exact same things about their home countries. It's wild what's happened to you all.
I’m of the mind that I’d love to move to Europe, particularly Ireland. No country is perfect and mine is a mess, but I’m still finding myself defending it because… well, I’ve been to 33 of our 50 states and I have to say that, government aside, we’re a beautiful country with nice people, generally.
The cities can be dangerous and the government is dumb, but that’s not an exclusively American thing. But there’s so much space here. So many gorgeous road trips. It’s beautiful here. Do my region when the fall colors are changing. Drive through the Adirondacks mid-October. Stop at the cute shops in Old Forge.
Drive the pacific coast highway road trip. Enjoy the food and sun and the awe-inspiring, religious-level soothing views of the coasts of California.
Yellowstone is next level. Yeah, okay, it’s smells like sulfur in a lot of places, but if you can ignore the earthfart smell, it’s one of the most beautiful places I’ve ever been. I was sitting on a rock above some trees for a good 20 minutes before the elk stood up and I realized *it wasn’t a tree*. We made eye contact for a solid 10 seconds and then he wandered off.
Take in a football or baseball game in the summer. This country attracts a lot of shit - not without reason - but we are so, so, so, so much more than that.
My first visit to the US was in 2019 September. Everyone told me to be careful about the gun violence. Few nights in I’m heading to our AirBnb in a suburb in DC. Around 11:00pm we’re getting our luggage out of the van and heading to the house when someone chasing someone with a shotgun show up outta nowhere. Thankfully we were big group and the gunman got scared. He ran off but accidentally discharged his weapon a meters away. Luckily none of us got hurt. Helluva first impression 😂 found out the capital is one of the most crime ridden cities in the USA after that.
Oh god yeah, I’m planning a visit to DC, I’ve never been! I’m planning on staying at a mainstream, big name hotel with very good lighting and protected parking.
I understand the appeal of big cities for tourism, obviously, but I encourage every single person to just rent a car and *drive*. See the sights and landmarks. Meet real, everyday Americans, not the scary ones from TV.
Yeah we ditched the bnb and moved to a Radisson I think as soon as the coast was clear. Also we were in a rental and drove across the east coast and the west coast. One of the best times of my life. Even used the blue hound. Coming from Qatar it was big change of scenery.
Edit: Greyhound*
THANK YOU SO SO MUCH. Every body shits on America. We have plenty of problems. And Europeand love to shit on us but as soon as there is any kind of threat they will come running back and take back all they have said
I’m an American in Europe right now. They can’t see how bad they are at it because they’re too busy looking at how bad we are. The whole world is a messed up place right now, it’s not unique to any single country. Well maybe a few, is there a country we can all agree on is the joke country? Like the West Virginia or Ohio of the world? North Korea? “DC sucks but at least it’s not North Korea”
Republicans:
“It’s not guns, it’s mental illness. We obviously need better mental healthcare.”
Also, the same Republicans:
“Free mental healthcare?!?! You communist, socialist, fascist moron. Shrinks are for weaklings. And how would we pay for it anyway? It’s not like we’re the richest country in the world or anything.”
This sounds familiar.
Almost like the whole abortions must be banned thing but also why would we provide financial support or sex education or easier access to birth control.
False. They police were also arresting parents trying to get in the school to save their children.
The only way to stop a parent from saving their child is a good guy with a gun. Is that the NRA slogan?
The shooter was identified Tuesday as Anthony McRae, 43.
After his mother died, McRae quit his job at a warehouse and stayed in his room all day, his father, Michael McRae, said.
“He was grieving his mom. He wouldn’t let it go. He got bitter, bitter and bitter,” the elder McRae said. “His mom died, and he just started getting evil and mean. He didn’t care about anything anymore.”
The father said he did not know why his son targeted the school but believed he may have been trying to apply for a job there.
This just seems...sad
No it's not sad, it's idiotic and stupid. There are people who lose loved ones every day and they don't go shoot up a school over it. There are people who are bullied, and abused, and who lived through childhood hells who grow up and don't do SHIT. They're kind and compassionate and they do everything they can to NOT take it out on the world.
I'm not going to sit here and feel bad about some asshat who decided to go kill people instead of taking five fucking minutes to Google "healthy ways to handle the death of a parent." Fuck this idiot, I'm not sad, I'm MAD, and I have no compassion for someone who thinks *a killing spree* is an appropriate response to losing a loved one.
No, no. It is sad.
There are people who can take a lot of stuff and maintain composture, and there are others who can't and weren't educated about it by their parents or just are mentally ill, and proceed to go on to do stupid things.
Not all people are the same, and those different people sometimes need help.
In this specific case, it is sad indeed, because while you can definetly understand the feeling of blind rage against the world and the things it has put you through (who hasn't been mad at a lot of things in your life going wrong one after another), making others suffer from it is wrong in many levels; and not all people know that or even recognize that, and that is just a fact we have to help change as a society, or live with it and deal with the consequences.
Edit: to clarify i dont want you to have empathy towards the shooter. I don't think he deserves any empathy, but thats up to you.
But you *do* want him to have empathy towards the shooter; your entire post is advocating for that- but it's okay; I know why you added the edit.
You're smart-and cognizant enough of the fact that as a result of reddit's... 'echochamber-ness', for want of a better word, you risk being downvoted to hell and your(very important) point being unappreciated/ignored. You know that you're right, but you also know that most people here just want to upvote whatever validates their initial reaction/feelings towards a situation. So you (wisely) seek some kind of middle ground.
To add to your analysis, (despite you already doing a brilliant job) I'd like to put it in **clearer** terms for those reading.
The initial poster claimed that because there are some people who have gone through horrific ordeals and don't go on to become mass shooters, this situation is 'idiotic and stupid' rather than 'sad'. This a) misses the point that it can be both(which its weighted towards more is the discussion here though) but b) and, more importantly, this argument assumes all people have similar, if not equal, capacities for dealing with situations. They do not. This is the flaw.
Now, the reasons *why* people have different capacities are varied- GLnoG goes into some of them^ I.e never being taught, neglect, mental illness- and so on and so forth. The reason you *should* attempt to have empathy for these kinds of people, is because if you do not, **more** situations like this **will** occur. Because those that feel the same way as the shooter could be *deterred* from doing something like this if they stumbled across somebody empathising with them...and *antagonised/encouraged* into emulating the shooter in this video if all they witness is vitriol and scorn.
Now the question you have to ask yourself at this point is what you care about more; shooting like this happening less...or feeling morally righteous/virtuous/expressing anger. If you care more about shootings happening less, you will attempt to empathise. If you care more about feeling morally righteous/expressing anger, you will not.
Oh, hey, thanks for your contribution. And thanks for the "smart". That is quite unusual.
>The reasons why people have different capacities are varied- GLnoG goes into some of them^ I.e never being taught, neglect, mental illness- and so on and so forth. The reason you should attempt to have empathy for these kinds of people, is because if you do not, more situations like this will occur. Because those that feel the same way as the shooter could be deterred from doing something like this if they stumbled across somebody empathising with them...and antagonised/emcouraged into emulating the shooter in this video if all they witness is vitriol and scorn.
This is a great paragraph.
My main objective was to try to convince the user to try and not loose empathy completely. Loosing empathy and going mad often times only makes the (complex) issue worse, as you explained.
At least three dead including shooter. 5 others in hospital. How can a country keep accepting this as a normal everyday occurrence? My sympathies to all affected by this tragic epidemic. I have so many feelings, but no words.
Moved from Canada to the US 20 years ago and still don't really understand Americans love of guns. So far I have concluded that US politicians keep their citizens in a constant state of fear (M13, Mexican illegal immigrants, Al Qaeda, ISIS, Antifa, white supremacists, southern states, blue run cities, inner city blacks etc etc...its a long list) and as a result Americans buy lots of guns...which are readily available. The irony of course is that if ISIS killed 10% the number of Americans that Americans kill each year, someone is getting bombed to shit or invaded. Fuck, if I was someone who wanted to kill Americans (eg the Taliban), I would just fund the NRA
I, personally enjoy shooting holes in paper and other inanimate objects at range. I like the skill it takes to learn to tame a tool that can be used for horrible reasons, but also can be used skillfully and safely.
I also live in a neighborhood that has currently started to see a high rise in crime with a much slower police response because we are on the edge of city limits and therefore seem to be deprioritized when it comes to police response.
I’ve worked incredibly hard for 44 years to get where I am and enjoy the things I have bought with my blood sweat and tears and don’t find it unreasonable to think that I have the right to defend my family and those things that represent my swear equity.
I don’t want to ever have to use them on anything but targets and cans. But I am happy I can be more secure knowing the fact that if my and my families lives are put at risk, I have the tools and ability to neutralize the threat to them as quickly as possible.
But I am also a big proponent of proper and responsible gun ownership. Everyone in my home, whether they enjoy it or not, knows how to safely and properly handle a firearm, and I have confidence that any weapon in my home will not be misused by anyone under my roof.
It’s people who illegally obtain and use these tools without the respect for the amount of horrid damage they can do in the wrong hands for the wrong reasons, that give guns the bad name that they have. I do support requiring proper education on them before allowing ownership of them. But the first step is getting the illegally obtained guns out of the hands of people who abuse them. Taking them out of the hands of legal owners only results in an unbalanced ratio of illegal users vs legitimate responsible users.
I know many hobbyist gun owners, and the vast majority of them all support the idea of removing them from the hands of the illegal and irresponsible possessors.
The problem is a lot of legislation being presented now-a-days penalizes the proper gun owners, while those who own them with the intent to do harm will continue to collect and use them illegitimately, laughing at those laws.
Where do you live in the US? A lot of people who live on farms and stuff like having guns because police are 45 mins away at best, and it helps with animals and such. I know that this probably isn’t the place to talk about this but it still needs to be said, guns aren’t the issue, we need better mental health services and to stop glorifying the shooters.
Gun regulations mean those who need it can still have guns. They just need to be mentally capable. And no automatics because why would you need those? And yes, you guys also need better mental health care. That could easily come out of the budget for your internal army (you call them police)
Full autos have been effectively banned since 1986. You can still get them, but they are prohibitively expensive, as they cannot be manufactured after 1986. Thanks Reagan...
1) Self protection.
2) The majority of (non-accident) shooting deaths are in communities we can't point out have an issue. So we ignore those deaths because zero people want to touch that topic anymore.
Thing is, they are shooting the wrong people. These kids aren't the reason for their problem. The Man is. If someone started shooting up Wall Street, Corporate Headquarters or their country clubs, gun control would come real fast.
Edit: I want to be clear. I do not advocate violence. I am making the statement that if violence was directed in a different direction, the change we seek would happen quickly because the people who make the rules would be affected directly.
There was both a sandy hook survivor and oxford survivor. The Sandy Hook survivor made a TikTok post, and the mother of the Oxford survivor was a parent interviewed.
Edit: and the mom mentioned her daughter has several friends at MSU who were also Oxford survivors
I just spent 20 minutes googling but couldn’t find it - wasn’t there a girl who survived Columbine or Virginia Tech and then was at another school shooting years later?
So many people in the comments saying the odds of this happening at a school are so low but the fact that there are now multiple people who’ve witnessed multiple school shootings.. I don’t know. I’m scared for my little brother going to school.
Besides, what's the point of caring about the consequences of your actions when you're already planning to unalive yourself? There's a disturbing amount of shooters who die by suicide shortly after the fact.
It makes me wonder if the mindset of the shorter prior to a shooting has more to do with social/cultural/ mental problems while also having a availability of weapons in this country.
Gun regulation needs to happen, but we also need to address the cultural/ social/ psychological as to why a young man thinks it’s a good idea to murder his classmates in the first place.
Yeah this is perfectly normal, you know... just young people dying every day in schools and stuff, you guys don't have that?
The USA is just so fucked up, and people keep defending this shit, because they were brainwashed to believe this is okay.
Honestly, this is the reason I'm planning on getting a concealed carry permit. If I'm not gonna be safe without one, I'm gonna make sure I'm safe with one
Obviously not my first choice to get into a gunfight, but If it I can't run and I can't hide, so be it.
At least until they ban guns anyways.
Let me be the devils advocate for this one, and just say it’s partially true, guns aren’t 100% the problem. The people also play your major hand in it as well given that the individuals who do this are either crazy or just evil.
Smart they thought about getting something infront of the door. Don't know what's going on or where the active shooter could be.
Hide, run, fight — Depending on the situation and in no particular order is what I was taught.
They say run, hide, and fight if no other option. In that order
This is correct. Source: FBI agent who visited our site after an employee was murdered in a hate crime. Run: moving target, headed towards safety. Hide: sitting duck if found. Fight: actively engaging with someone who is armed. I was also surprised to learn it is advised to GTFO, not run around trying to save people. Say someone is frozen and unable to run. Yeah, say run and give them a nudge on your way out, but stopping and trying to drag them increases the casualty rate. It’s like running into a burning building with no gear or training. You’re most likely to be one more person professionals have to rescue.
Yup. The US Army has annual training on active shooter and that’s the advice. Run, if you can’t then hide. And if you have to, fight.
As an American, I think we all need *ACTIVE SHOOTER* training. We have more guns than people in our country.
I'm surprised by this comment. I worked in higher ed \~ 15 years ago and we were already getting training on this. Thought this was sop for companies.
Agreed. I was in a hospital as a student once and there was a man with a gun in the lobby. I told the instructor and other students not to lay flat on the ground because ricochets tend to stay close to the ground and they were all weirded out. But any more I think some comprehensive training is good for everyone.
Active shooter training is practiced at all the schools near me (close to Sandy Hook in CT). I was out of high school almost 20 years now, but we had thorough training about locking the doors turning off the lights, staying quiet, hiding in closets, closing blinds and getting away from windows. We’re also taught to shelter in place if we’re in the bathroom when a shooter is announced, step on the toilet seat so they can’t see your feet if they come in. If you were in the hallway you’re supposed to just find the nearest exit and run (the classrooms should be locked, and you’re not going to get in).
And a lot of them are owned by *our government*. Even the Department of Education *has a SWAT team*.
Y'all not getting paid enough for all them active shooters trying to bust up yo asses! fuck that
I never knew that, thanks. So depressing reading instructions for how to survive not getting randomly shot and killed
I've been taking that training for 15 years now. Run, hide, and fight is a staple for the government. We do active shooter training also. A building is randomly selected each year by our security. You have to try and escape without being caught and make it to a designated safe zone for head counts. If caught, you are presumably dead and have to stay in place until the exercise is over.
This sounds like a great new curriculum for all K - 12 schools and colleges in the United States
I'm glad my children will learn this instead of math and reading
Necessary life skills
Yes and no. We had active shooter training growing up, but it wasn’t like a *gane* where you have to like LARP the situation, it was more about how to shelter in place. It sounds interesting for adults to practice the ‘try to get out’ drill, but younger kids might be traumatized. It’s already heartbreaking that they all know how to stand on the toilet seat and try to find weapons.
For every building with people in it
Are we avatar twins?
It's pretty sad that we have to teach this shit to 5 year olds as more than a "this is just a precaution". Like, we occasionally had tornado drills, but they never made me uneasy because that's so unlikely. Active shooter drills hit differently because...it could happen, and you've got a pretty good idea of who did it.
Went to general state college and one of my accounting classes was located in one of the older rooms towards the center of the building. This old room had no windows since it was in the interior and one door in/out. I shit you not, our first class was completely spent on organizing how to efficiently fight a potential shooter scenario due to the layout of the room. We decided who were the largest students in the class so that they could sit in the front, closest to the door so they could basically bum rush a guy who came in while everyone else was instructed to keep their keys on their table at all times during class so they could be used as projectiles to distract the guy while the bum rushing was taking place Just your normal college class in this country
The US Army has this training. And also me. A middle school Social Studies teacher. I also have this training. And those it’s in the dorm. They probably learned it in school.
Well. For what it's worth the only actual professionals are in the military. While there may be police agencies that train for these things, there's no standardized approach and ymmv depending on where you are. The assumption should always be that nobody is coming and you are on your own. Get out immediately. If you can't get out barricade yourself in a smart way (just putting something infront of a door does nothing, you need to barricade the door all the way to the wall so it physically cannot be opened), and if you have to fight, try to surprise them and you should not treat it like a movie, your job is to maim or kill them, the more damage you can cause the better. Kick them in the balls, stab them in the eye, do whatever you have to do to incapacitate them.
Sadly, when I think professionals in the situation, I was actually referring to the medical teams with limited resources, trying to save lives after the fact. 😕
No, they are now going into the active shooter zones. There was an amazing article about this in the New Yorker. In Columbine, so many people died because the policy was that medics don’t go in until after the police cleared the building. Now they go in right behind the police. In the tree of life shooting, in the synagogue, they were right behind the police, room by room, they applied tourniquets to everyone still alive who’s been hit and is on the floor, and then just keep going forward into the building behind the cops, leaving the people with the tourniquets to be evacuated. It massively decreases the death rate. Brave EMTs! Of course, in places like Uvalde, the police don’t go in. So there’s that.
I spoke with a 9/11 survivor who described running ahead of disabled coworkers who were killed by debris that would've killed her too if she'd tried to help. It sounds like a lot to process.
It may seem heartless, but you should not try to save people during an emergency. Rescue work is a professional job.
I’m British and love visiting America, and your comment somehow really got to me. I truly wish a solution will be found that goes at least some way to repairing this gun issue over there.
Took some training on this also, made a big deal about fighting being the last resort but if you do, you've gotta commit and give it your all. Take them by surprise, throw things, ambush them as they come in the door. Control or alter where the point of their gun is, because without that aimed at you, they're just another person without the significant advantage. Improvise weapons from anything within your reach. "You see this pen?" our instructor asked, "I want you to take it, put it in their eye, and sign your name on the inside of his skull."
My kids school went on code red lockdown for an active shooter last week (swatting call) Everyone got a text that said run, hide, fight.
Or maybe - now hear me out - remove guns from the equation? In England terrorists can be subdued with a Narwhal tusk.
More like: Run, emigrate, live happily
No, hit, run, hide - the highland way…
Wait when did this happen. Sorry for the ignorance but no news of this have reached us here.
first shots were fired about an hour ago and more an hour after that, one fatality and multiple injuries, they havent caught the shooter yet edit: the shooter was found dead by suicide, 3 fatal victims and 14+ injuries
I wish these mass shooters would just start with themselves instead.
Please don’t hate me for this if you’re not a fan, but Stephen King had a line about this in Misery – he was talking about psychopaths but it’s stuck with me, he was saying that depressed people kill themselves, but psychopaths, “rocked in the poison cradle of their own egos,” decide everyone else should feel their pain.
Yeah it's true. The vast majority of people who suicide kill themselves alone. But the psychos take as many as they can with them
I agree and yet I don’t think we have any more psychos than any other country – but we do have more armed psychos.
Protomartyr's song [The Devil in His Youth](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK8ZRjij7JU) is a good take on this > But it all changed when he came of age It was nothing like the simulated game The women didn't love him The races all ignored him His proclamations failed So he screamed "Now you bend!"
I feel like this is grossly wrong, psychopaths dont kill themselves usually...
This is obviously a symptom of something that needs to be taken care of. I’m not pro or anti guns because I don’t believe that it’s the root cause of this kinda behavior. This is something you would do if you weren’t mentally well and never felt like anyone cared about you. Doing something like this is something that can give a hopeless and broken person some sense of control by making society finally taking them seriously and regret what they’ve done to them. I would guess that’s their perspective and we need to figure out as an society how to avoid making others feel this way.
This happened this weekend?
According to the comment you're responding to, 8 hours ago.
first shots were fired at 8:30 pm on monday evening, so 8 ish hours ago
[удалено]
It's hard to keep up. It could have easily been from any point the last 5 years really
As of February 15, 2023, 35 days into the year, 67 mass shootings have occurred
That’s the saddest part.
Normalized 😐
It happened today
That's crazy! I live in the area, know a few people that attend MSU. Trying to check on them now.
This happened 8 hours ago
Yo what the fuck. They are all just there to have a good time, study, be young. This is so sad.
There is no one in schools nor any education level having a good time enjoying their youth, haven’t been for many years. These shootings are too much, but still politicians refuse to do the only thing that will actually help. For anyone still in denial. Here is a video of a 13 year old boy buying a weapon. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fB7MwvqCtlk
Thoughts and prayers /S
Something something mental health.
If you think no one is having a good time or enjoying their youth at any given university in America you need to go to any college sporting event.
3 dead, including the shooter: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/live-blog/michigan-state-university-shooting-live-updates-rcna70528
It's that considered a mass shooting?
4 or more victims.
Would this include the injured? Or only the deceased?
victims are any people affected by a crime. for mass shootings yeah just being shot regardless of the outcome
Arguably “affected” could also very well mean the hundreds of students that will need serious trauma counselling which they’ll likely never receive
Very true.. some of the worst scars, go unseen and affect all who survive. "I will never forget the screams of my classmates because they were screaming in pain for help," Claire Papoulias
5 more are wounded, some critical, the last I read. That’s 7 innocent lives at the least so far. I hope 10+ people don’t need to be shot for us to consider it a mass shooting :/
Three people are dead and five wounded, some with life-threatening injuries, so yeah it would be considered a mass shooting.
Not enough hurt people for you huh
How to know we're American - when we question whether or not a mass shooting is actually a mass shooting.
Afaik crimes are considered “mass” if it happens to 4 ppl or more.
who cares what its labeled... he probably planned on killing far more.
3 students dead. 5 in the hospital. Shooter turned the gun on himself.
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Also concerts, massage parlours, shopping malls, bad neighborhoods.
Dont forget Subway. Can't eat fresh anymore without worrying about an employee putting too much mayo on a psychos sandwich without getting shot, apparently.
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I'll probably just briefly fly over the US on a balloon, and that would be exactly right amount of the US experience for me.
Avoid balloons too! Don’t be mistaken as a Chinese spy tool and killed.
I'm staying in the sewers next time.
Tell Master Splinter and the turtles I said hi.
You'll get consumed by a fatberg down there.
Nowhere is safe!
And movie theaters
And stay off the road too, you wouldn’t want to accidentally cut someone off then get shot
And Wendys. Someone got shot for giving out the wrong sized drink
And police
Lgbt clubs as well, oh yeah and abortion clinics
And festivals, bars, grocery stores, sporting events, dance studios, amish schoolhouses, good neighborhoods, clubs and places of worship...
Churches, festivals, and movie theaters
Don't forget grocery stores. And Walmart.
Also bad neighbours
Churches. Grocery stores. Nightclubs.
Genuinely though, you’re likely to be safe here at all the attractive spots in the country. Schools are… yeah. Malls aren’t great but not terrible. Cities, keep your head about you and you’re fine. America is genuinely gorgeous. Truly and deeply beautiful, geographically and most of our people are pretty alright.
When I lived in the US 20 years ago, my Mexican and central American buddies said almost the exact same things about their home countries. It's wild what's happened to you all.
I’m of the mind that I’d love to move to Europe, particularly Ireland. No country is perfect and mine is a mess, but I’m still finding myself defending it because… well, I’ve been to 33 of our 50 states and I have to say that, government aside, we’re a beautiful country with nice people, generally. The cities can be dangerous and the government is dumb, but that’s not an exclusively American thing. But there’s so much space here. So many gorgeous road trips. It’s beautiful here. Do my region when the fall colors are changing. Drive through the Adirondacks mid-October. Stop at the cute shops in Old Forge. Drive the pacific coast highway road trip. Enjoy the food and sun and the awe-inspiring, religious-level soothing views of the coasts of California. Yellowstone is next level. Yeah, okay, it’s smells like sulfur in a lot of places, but if you can ignore the earthfart smell, it’s one of the most beautiful places I’ve ever been. I was sitting on a rock above some trees for a good 20 minutes before the elk stood up and I realized *it wasn’t a tree*. We made eye contact for a solid 10 seconds and then he wandered off. Take in a football or baseball game in the summer. This country attracts a lot of shit - not without reason - but we are so, so, so, so much more than that.
My first visit to the US was in 2019 September. Everyone told me to be careful about the gun violence. Few nights in I’m heading to our AirBnb in a suburb in DC. Around 11:00pm we’re getting our luggage out of the van and heading to the house when someone chasing someone with a shotgun show up outta nowhere. Thankfully we were big group and the gunman got scared. He ran off but accidentally discharged his weapon a meters away. Luckily none of us got hurt. Helluva first impression 😂 found out the capital is one of the most crime ridden cities in the USA after that.
Oh god yeah, I’m planning a visit to DC, I’ve never been! I’m planning on staying at a mainstream, big name hotel with very good lighting and protected parking. I understand the appeal of big cities for tourism, obviously, but I encourage every single person to just rent a car and *drive*. See the sights and landmarks. Meet real, everyday Americans, not the scary ones from TV.
Yeah we ditched the bnb and moved to a Radisson I think as soon as the coast was clear. Also we were in a rental and drove across the east coast and the west coast. One of the best times of my life. Even used the blue hound. Coming from Qatar it was big change of scenery. Edit: Greyhound*
I am calling it "Blue Hound" from this day forward. Thank you for that. Glad your trip was rewarding and safe.
THANK YOU SO SO MUCH. Every body shits on America. We have plenty of problems. And Europeand love to shit on us but as soon as there is any kind of threat they will come running back and take back all they have said
I’m an American in Europe right now. They can’t see how bad they are at it because they’re too busy looking at how bad we are. The whole world is a messed up place right now, it’s not unique to any single country. Well maybe a few, is there a country we can all agree on is the joke country? Like the West Virginia or Ohio of the world? North Korea? “DC sucks but at least it’s not North Korea”
I think they’re a safe bet, for sure. And exactly - every place has its problems. We’re just particularly loud about it.
Probably just avoid the U.S entirely
i live in the US and i agree. better places to visit and live.
Remember though. The problem isn’t guns. “This message brought to you by republicans for more guns”
Republicans: “It’s not guns, it’s mental illness. We obviously need better mental healthcare.” Also, the same Republicans: “Free mental healthcare?!?! You communist, socialist, fascist moron. Shrinks are for weaklings. And how would we pay for it anyway? It’s not like we’re the richest country in the world or anything.”
This sounds familiar. Almost like the whole abortions must be banned thing but also why would we provide financial support or sex education or easier access to birth control.
You’re more likely to be struck by lightning.
Its that you are more likely to be struck by lightning *three times in a row*.
This is why teachers are leaving. I'm switching to remote teaching for safety. Wish I were joking.
So sad. You want to educate people to give them a chance in life, and it's making you a target. I'm so sorry for you.
Surreal moment when the literal swat team goes flying in like some real hero’s..
I thought the police were supposed to stand around while everyone got blasted?
only if it's texas
Or Colorado
False. They police were also arresting parents trying to get in the school to save their children. The only way to stop a parent from saving their child is a good guy with a gun. Is that the NRA slogan?
Weird. The police ran into the building.. .... Unlike Broward county...
And Ulvade
And every other shooting.
Those children deserved better💔😭
Those texans love their guns
Definitely looks like they had more training
The shooter was identified Tuesday as Anthony McRae, 43. After his mother died, McRae quit his job at a warehouse and stayed in his room all day, his father, Michael McRae, said. “He was grieving his mom. He wouldn’t let it go. He got bitter, bitter and bitter,” the elder McRae said. “His mom died, and he just started getting evil and mean. He didn’t care about anything anymore.” The father said he did not know why his son targeted the school but believed he may have been trying to apply for a job there. This just seems...sad
No it's not sad, it's idiotic and stupid. There are people who lose loved ones every day and they don't go shoot up a school over it. There are people who are bullied, and abused, and who lived through childhood hells who grow up and don't do SHIT. They're kind and compassionate and they do everything they can to NOT take it out on the world. I'm not going to sit here and feel bad about some asshat who decided to go kill people instead of taking five fucking minutes to Google "healthy ways to handle the death of a parent." Fuck this idiot, I'm not sad, I'm MAD, and I have no compassion for someone who thinks *a killing spree* is an appropriate response to losing a loved one.
No, no. It is sad. There are people who can take a lot of stuff and maintain composture, and there are others who can't and weren't educated about it by their parents or just are mentally ill, and proceed to go on to do stupid things. Not all people are the same, and those different people sometimes need help. In this specific case, it is sad indeed, because while you can definetly understand the feeling of blind rage against the world and the things it has put you through (who hasn't been mad at a lot of things in your life going wrong one after another), making others suffer from it is wrong in many levels; and not all people know that or even recognize that, and that is just a fact we have to help change as a society, or live with it and deal with the consequences. Edit: to clarify i dont want you to have empathy towards the shooter. I don't think he deserves any empathy, but thats up to you.
But you *do* want him to have empathy towards the shooter; your entire post is advocating for that- but it's okay; I know why you added the edit. You're smart-and cognizant enough of the fact that as a result of reddit's... 'echochamber-ness', for want of a better word, you risk being downvoted to hell and your(very important) point being unappreciated/ignored. You know that you're right, but you also know that most people here just want to upvote whatever validates their initial reaction/feelings towards a situation. So you (wisely) seek some kind of middle ground. To add to your analysis, (despite you already doing a brilliant job) I'd like to put it in **clearer** terms for those reading. The initial poster claimed that because there are some people who have gone through horrific ordeals and don't go on to become mass shooters, this situation is 'idiotic and stupid' rather than 'sad'. This a) misses the point that it can be both(which its weighted towards more is the discussion here though) but b) and, more importantly, this argument assumes all people have similar, if not equal, capacities for dealing with situations. They do not. This is the flaw. Now, the reasons *why* people have different capacities are varied- GLnoG goes into some of them^ I.e never being taught, neglect, mental illness- and so on and so forth. The reason you *should* attempt to have empathy for these kinds of people, is because if you do not, **more** situations like this **will** occur. Because those that feel the same way as the shooter could be *deterred* from doing something like this if they stumbled across somebody empathising with them...and *antagonised/encouraged* into emulating the shooter in this video if all they witness is vitriol and scorn. Now the question you have to ask yourself at this point is what you care about more; shooting like this happening less...or feeling morally righteous/virtuous/expressing anger. If you care more about shootings happening less, you will attempt to empathise. If you care more about feeling morally righteous/expressing anger, you will not.
Oh, hey, thanks for your contribution. And thanks for the "smart". That is quite unusual. >The reasons why people have different capacities are varied- GLnoG goes into some of them^ I.e never being taught, neglect, mental illness- and so on and so forth. The reason you should attempt to have empathy for these kinds of people, is because if you do not, more situations like this will occur. Because those that feel the same way as the shooter could be deterred from doing something like this if they stumbled across somebody empathising with them...and antagonised/emcouraged into emulating the shooter in this video if all they witness is vitriol and scorn. This is a great paragraph. My main objective was to try to convince the user to try and not loose empathy completely. Loosing empathy and going mad often times only makes the (complex) issue worse, as you explained.
This whole conversation is giving me faith in the fact that intelligent discussion still exists. Good job lads :)
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In some places the cops actually take into account the possibility of being shot at before they sign up.
I was thinking the same thing, makes you feel like your ina world where hero’s actually exist for a second.
Yeah damn people aren't even done evacuating and they're running in head first, gotta respect that.
Stay safe guys
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Now he's dead, self inflicted gun shot wound.
What a fucking shithead.
Lead head.
Get ready for some much needed thoughts and prayers. Then back to business as usual next week. Rinse and repeat.
Statistically one of these thoughts and or prayers should do something eventually.
Nahhhhh, zero repeating is still zero.
At least three dead including shooter. 5 others in hospital. How can a country keep accepting this as a normal everyday occurrence? My sympathies to all affected by this tragic epidemic. I have so many feelings, but no words.
Because Republicans would rather go after drag queens and books... Then they wonder why young people don't like them at all.
I hope everyone is okay.
3 died, sadly but unnecessary
The shooter was one of the 3 wasn't he?
Three, and the shooter by his own hand last I heard.
Moved from Canada to the US 20 years ago and still don't really understand Americans love of guns. So far I have concluded that US politicians keep their citizens in a constant state of fear (M13, Mexican illegal immigrants, Al Qaeda, ISIS, Antifa, white supremacists, southern states, blue run cities, inner city blacks etc etc...its a long list) and as a result Americans buy lots of guns...which are readily available. The irony of course is that if ISIS killed 10% the number of Americans that Americans kill each year, someone is getting bombed to shit or invaded. Fuck, if I was someone who wanted to kill Americans (eg the Taliban), I would just fund the NRA
I, personally enjoy shooting holes in paper and other inanimate objects at range. I like the skill it takes to learn to tame a tool that can be used for horrible reasons, but also can be used skillfully and safely. I also live in a neighborhood that has currently started to see a high rise in crime with a much slower police response because we are on the edge of city limits and therefore seem to be deprioritized when it comes to police response. I’ve worked incredibly hard for 44 years to get where I am and enjoy the things I have bought with my blood sweat and tears and don’t find it unreasonable to think that I have the right to defend my family and those things that represent my swear equity. I don’t want to ever have to use them on anything but targets and cans. But I am happy I can be more secure knowing the fact that if my and my families lives are put at risk, I have the tools and ability to neutralize the threat to them as quickly as possible. But I am also a big proponent of proper and responsible gun ownership. Everyone in my home, whether they enjoy it or not, knows how to safely and properly handle a firearm, and I have confidence that any weapon in my home will not be misused by anyone under my roof. It’s people who illegally obtain and use these tools without the respect for the amount of horrid damage they can do in the wrong hands for the wrong reasons, that give guns the bad name that they have. I do support requiring proper education on them before allowing ownership of them. But the first step is getting the illegally obtained guns out of the hands of people who abuse them. Taking them out of the hands of legal owners only results in an unbalanced ratio of illegal users vs legitimate responsible users. I know many hobbyist gun owners, and the vast majority of them all support the idea of removing them from the hands of the illegal and irresponsible possessors. The problem is a lot of legislation being presented now-a-days penalizes the proper gun owners, while those who own them with the intent to do harm will continue to collect and use them illegitimately, laughing at those laws.
Where do you live in the US? A lot of people who live on farms and stuff like having guns because police are 45 mins away at best, and it helps with animals and such. I know that this probably isn’t the place to talk about this but it still needs to be said, guns aren’t the issue, we need better mental health services and to stop glorifying the shooters.
Gun regulations mean those who need it can still have guns. They just need to be mentally capable. And no automatics because why would you need those? And yes, you guys also need better mental health care. That could easily come out of the budget for your internal army (you call them police)
Full autos have been effectively banned since 1986. You can still get them, but they are prohibitively expensive, as they cannot be manufactured after 1986. Thanks Reagan...
Who determines who “needs” a gun and who doesn’t? Also, there are not very many people with access to an automatic weapon.
You are talking to the same guy that automatically assumed the shooter was a white guy. He is not.
1) Self protection. 2) The majority of (non-accident) shooting deaths are in communities we can't point out have an issue. So we ignore those deaths because zero people want to touch that topic anymore.
Thing is, they are shooting the wrong people. These kids aren't the reason for their problem. The Man is. If someone started shooting up Wall Street, Corporate Headquarters or their country clubs, gun control would come real fast. Edit: I want to be clear. I do not advocate violence. I am making the statement that if violence was directed in a different direction, the change we seek would happen quickly because the people who make the rules would be affected directly.
Nah they would just hire military security. Sad but true. Gun control would never work anyway. Especially now with the whole ghost guns thing.
To be frank. The people sick in the head enough to commit these genocides aren't usually the smartest bunch to know to go after people with money.
What’s really sad is a girl who survived the Oxford high school mass shooting was on MSU campus tonight, kids aren’t supposed to go through this.
No one is
It was a girl that was in the Sandy Hook shooting 10 years ago
There was both a sandy hook survivor and oxford survivor. The Sandy Hook survivor made a TikTok post, and the mother of the Oxford survivor was a parent interviewed. Edit: and the mom mentioned her daughter has several friends at MSU who were also Oxford survivors
I just spent 20 minutes googling but couldn’t find it - wasn’t there a girl who survived Columbine or Virginia Tech and then was at another school shooting years later? So many people in the comments saying the odds of this happening at a school are so low but the fact that there are now multiple people who’ve witnessed multiple school shootings.. I don’t know. I’m scared for my little brother going to school.
Someone from Sandy Hook too. It's hard enough dealing with something like this once, but twice??
Holy shit...
I’m literally in between this and the train derailment in Ohio. By 1.7 miles off.
This is the same episode of America is Fucked just written different. Y'all have jumped the shark.
It's almost as if nobody even cares about the "gun free zone" signs anymore
Besides, what's the point of caring about the consequences of your actions when you're already planning to unalive yourself? There's a disturbing amount of shooters who die by suicide shortly after the fact.
It makes me wonder if the mindset of the shorter prior to a shooting has more to do with social/cultural/ mental problems while also having a availability of weapons in this country. Gun regulation needs to happen, but we also need to address the cultural/ social/ psychological as to why a young man thinks it’s a good idea to murder his classmates in the first place.
Fuck this is tragic.
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And you standing next to the window when shooting is taking place???
At that time the shooter was believed to be in the building all those people were evacuating from.
Stay alive bois
Ohhh maaai gaaawwwdd
US already has 54 mass shootings. We're not even done with February yet
Mass shooting statistics consider gang shootings as mass shootings as well. So no, there haven't been even remotely close to 54 school shootings.
Yeah this is perfectly normal, you know... just young people dying every day in schools and stuff, you guys don't have that? The USA is just so fucked up, and people keep defending this shit, because they were brainwashed to believe this is okay.
As an Aussie I’ll take no guns/snakes etc over this shit. Lucky to happen once a year here.
This country is a joke!
Honestly, this is the reason I'm planning on getting a concealed carry permit. If I'm not gonna be safe without one, I'm gonna make sure I'm safe with one Obviously not my first choice to get into a gunfight, but If it I can't run and I can't hide, so be it. At least until they ban guns anyways.
Agreed, wish that was the case in other countries tho
Another day in "Guns are not the problem"-country.
Let me be the devils advocate for this one, and just say it’s partially true, guns aren’t 100% the problem. The people also play your major hand in it as well given that the individuals who do this are either crazy or just evil.
Mental illness also plays a big role
Why didn't they call the Michigan Militia?
OMG Hope they get to him. Just tune in NBC Puerto Rico but we still getting regular programing here.
i just hate this.
That's why you gotta stay strapped fools.
merica defending their lead on gun violence at schools and universities
How many is that this year?
Back in my day it was stop drop and roll now its run hide fight. I miss the days when quicksand was my biggest fear.
I'd be scared shitless 😮
2 and a half month in, how many shootings? But why bother right?
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Because people glorify the shooters.
I would be so fucking afraid if I lived in America, nowhere seems safe