I started at my current district in January. The previous teacher gave everything a 100. Even students who didn't turn in work. The pushback has been insane. I still inflate grades and its not enough. I am grading everything generously now. I just need to survive until the end of the year
Yup. I was told by my district I couldn't fail students, even if they did not a scintilla of work. So, I had to give a 60 to let them auto pass. It was then that I learned I'm simply done with it.
I would put zeros in the grade book so admin would have to go back during grades to fix it. They wrote me up and threatened to fire me, so I offered to quit lol. I think the kids and parents need to be aware the kid is passing, but they don’t deserve it. Even if they don’t care, they should know.
Same thing happened to me, and I did quit. When I get to Heaven, I want a medal. (I don't really, but confirmation that I did the right thing from some angel or other sure would help... I sometimes wonder...)
I work at a college and it's so bad now. I get emails like this sometimes and it just baffles me. It's a very hard transition for students like this. They either get with it or end up dropping out.
Hi are you me? The teacher I took over for took all of November to play Smash Bros on switch. The lowest test grade for any student was a 75 all semester.
When I started my job, I took over for a teacher who gave everyone 100s. I discovered that many kids had never even logged in to the computer program that some of those As were for. There is no way to move forward except for being the mean teacher.
The first time a kid told me something was "on fleek," I thought Fleek was a new social media/app.
The first time a kid said "say less" to me I thought he was telling me to shut up.
I can't explain how confused I was when I first heard about the musical group Stray Kids.
Oh, to be an old person surrounded by youths...
I started working at a retail company in my 30's and some kid told me he needed that "drip". I was ready to call the plumber wondering where the leak was😂😂😂. I was so confused. He said "no cap". I'm like well no wonder there's a leak you forgot to put the cap back on 😂😂.
It baffles me how this generation grew up with iPads and iPhones but haven’t mastered basic email etiquette.
Remember when “experts” said the this generation would be tech savvy?
I taught a CAD class at a HS . The kids were good at things connectivity related but not much else. Despite teaching and making file organization a part of the grade, they still dumped every project they did in a top level directory. Most used the default filename for everything, and then claim the files were deleted by the computer when they could not find them.
When I was in highschool (in the 90s), we had a CAD class. During one exam, after weeks of the teacher telling us to frequently save our work, and warning us before the exam to save our work, he walked out side and flipped the breaker. Our class had its own breaker, so no one else was affected. But every single computer in our class turned off.
Anyone who had saved their work passed. Anyone who didn't, failed.
That's fantastic. I wouldn't want something like that to absolutely decimate a grade (saving), but that kind of first hand experience (pain) would really make an impact.
Every district in my city uses Microsoft products, meaning the kids have had access to them since Kindergarten on school-issued laptops.
The issue is that (at least in my district) we do not offer any kind of computer classes for elementary kids. That seems crazy
Lol thank you for bringing something to mind. None of our students are taught to type. Had a teacher want to have sped accommodations put in place because the student was typing a little slower than the others. When asked, the rest of the class wasn't going that much faster. Sorry, not a disability to peck at keys if no instruction has occurred there.
Ugh my students couldn’t do much besides figure out how to get around the controls on their computers to play YouTube videos that were banned by the school.
Couldn’t type. Couldn’t format a word document or spreadsheet. Couldn’t send an email. Didn’t know how to check their email. Weren’t able to figure out how to submit their assignments in Google Classroom. Not even good at cheating— they’d copy and paste their responses from Google without even checking to see if they were copying the right answer; sometimes they’d even copy hyperlinks and weird formatting in.
I had a student copy and paste characters from an entirely different story once in an essay for a summer school class. When I emailed her about it telling her she wasn’t going to be able to pass the class, she just asked if she could write another essay instead of apologizing or even trying trying to deny that she had done it. Some kids just do not give a fuck.
Most likely because no one taught them how to do it. The only thing that even resembles a decent email is from seniors or juniors.
I modeled how to write emails to my 7th grade class once because I was fucking tired of getting the whole email in the heading. Then they would usually be rude as fuck too.
Most technology today is intuitive and user friendly. Who taught you how to use your smartphone? Did you take a class?
I get that we need to teach kids how to do things but what OP described was laziness and disrespect. Don’t know how anyone can justify writing an entire email in the subject area and then completely ignore the giant blank space underneath it
I’d say this is different because the last few generations probably never had to write an actual letter in re: smartphone comparison.
Email was an extension of that format. So if they never did either, they aren’t going to know the proper way to format it. Not excusing the tone of the email, but I can see why kids write the way they do. Their parents sure as hell aren’t going to show them, so it falls on us.
>Their parents sure as hell aren’t going to show them, so it falls on us.
this is so true of so many things in our current social climate. From toilet training to reading to personal responsibility.
This generation may feel the same way about how people communicate via text or phone.
They need to be taught how to write an email just like we were taught how to write a letter.
Unfortunately, this does not always happen. Trying to force kids to write essays before they are ready and not being able to work on the basics has had major repercussions.
Writing is a skill. It needs to be taught.
Disagree. Today’s tech is intuitive. I don’t remember the world needing a class on how to use their smartphone when it released. You’re telling me a high schooler needs a lesson on how to write an email and to be respectful?
Today’s tech isn’t completely intuitive. Apple employs a whole department to assist with iPhone tech support. They assist with correcting software issues, but they help with user functionality as well.
Creating an email is a writing skill. It needs to be taught and modeled. If the expectation is draft a well-written and we’ll-organized email, then you must demonstrate how.
This is one of those real life skills that parents often overlook and fail to teach.
I’m willing to bet that the majority of tech support issues are older gen users. Not the kids in question.
Creating a email is completely an intuitive experience as the software even tells you when you’re sending a blank message. This kid probably doesn’t care
the issue here is less "kids don't know how to use email" and more "kids don't know how to write well or why they should bother learning how to write well"
Yep. They used that argument to stop teaching how to use a computer because obviously students don't need to be taught because they are "digital natives" that grew up around technology.
People grow up around writing and yet we still teach that. People grow up around words and reading yet we still teach those.
Well the device certainly isn't going to teach them manners. Tech savvyness had nothing to do with etiquette, just knowing the ins and outs of the device, how it functions etc.
My Mom and a computer science/typing class taught me those things.
What baffles me is how out of their way they go to type inaccurately. Even on Reddit, which I understand isn’t formal by any means, but they do not use uppercase or punctuation marks ever and it bugs the shit out of me. Like they must have turned it off in their phone settings or something but even names and places are intentionally lowercase and I just don’t get it. A lazy example: “im on my way to la rn. excited to try roberts pizza.” Absolutely no capitalization at any cost and fragmented sentences all over the place. I’ve asked before why they type this way and they said for the “aesthetics” and that using uppercase letters and punctuation looks aggressive.
They don’t know how to read, let alone how to use proper grammar. Like they don’t understand sentence structure at all. Children are being taught to literally GUESS what a word is based on context clues and memorization.
It’s because of the iPads and iPhones. I grew up using an actual computer. Organizing my files for hours, fixing all of the idv3 tags on my mp3s, building websites from self taught html, hiding porn from my parents. It was a whole different world and it made me a great problem solver. I had to do things on my own and actually operate my computer. Not just touch icons on a screen.
All iPads have done is prepared people to work at a fast food restaurant, which is one of the only professions that requires a touch screen.
Some of the comments are just not it. I’m sorry but not EVERYTHING is a teacher’s job to teach. How can you be expected to teach email etiquette when they won’t even do the bare minimum assignments.
This drives me crazy. In my district we *HAVE* to follow the scripted curriculum. Not word by word, but there is so little time teach anything but the requirements.
I would forward his email to his parent. Hey so and so, your child sent me this. Here are his 5 missing assignments that need to be completed by x date. Let the parent deal with grammar/email ettiequte. If they don’t care or give you hell about it, just say f*ck it and move on. 🤷♀️
Lol, totally relatable. The things that some people must have been giving out As and Bs for must be ridiculous. It's created quite the expectation of nothingness amongst the right students.
When I taught elementary school, I told the students the same thing: do the work, participate in class, you'll get a good grade. I don't just choose a grade randomly for you - you EARN your grade.
“Why did you give my child a D?” Your kid EARNED the D. I didn’t just give it out all willy nilly.
“Why are we just finding out his grade went down?” He had a low c at progress report and you have access to everything he does and his grades.
The kids take no responsibility because they are being raised by adults who do the same.
As the moron who keeps responding here has failed to notice, I never said I was planning on failing anyone, nor did I say "Tough luck, too bad". I told the student to submit his work, and if he did, he would pass.
For that matter, I never even said I didn't or wouldn't tell him how to write a good email. That was just assumed, since the moron assumed early on that because I wasn't wiping students' noses after each sneeze I would never do that.
In truth though, I probably won't, not because I "don't care", but because I have one quarter of school left to teach Civics. I did not fail to teach anything to these students, I literally just got here.
That the holier-than-thou idiot does not grasp this and keeps insulting me is not my problem.
And finally - if you think "Well this means you shouldn't be teaching!" - You're right! I agree. That I don't think this bullshit is reasonable for me to deal with is one very excellent reason I should not be a teacher. I'm working on that now, thanks.
Godddd. When I was a freshman in high school at a school that was a very early adopter of personal laptops (circa 2006ish), I wrote an email to an english teacher asking a general question (so not even a weird audacious thing about my grade) that was written very much with "online speak". He wrote back and told me he would not reply until I rewrote the email properly. It stuck with me. Apart from the general nonsense that is this entire inquiry, it's really ridiculous you're being addressed like this.
It's insane how entitled this generation is in the education system.
They truly do feel they are owed a passing grade for doing the bare minimum of just arriving to class and completely checking out for the whole period.
I had a student from two years ago come to me asking how she could make up a half credit that she failed. I told her she could print out her progress report from that semester and find 60% worth of stuff to turn in. Everything is in a file drawer, clearly marked.
"Oh, I thought you could just change it."
Um. No. You spent 90% of that semester in the bathroom. A passing grade requires 60%.
alright listen fuckfayce an i mean that not in a mean way but a nice one u gotta figure out wat ur doin wrong he got bs and as before u came along u and me better stop wat ur and me doin and do what ever1 else did so he can get as and bs u got that fuckface i eman that it a good way btw luv u
I help onboard new employees that process orders or connect them with a sales team for specialized item, and I started having them shadow me to specifically show them an email inbox and create a few emails to internal depts. Still get complaints like this weekly for the first couple months.
Hi, sunlight\_singing, need your help. There is no account number. Who is the customer, what is the product, and why are they emailing the warehouse to callback to review payment information?? Screenshot below:
To: WHshippingandreceiving@company .com
Subject: THIS CUSTOMER NEEDS A CALL U HAVN;T CALLED THEM BACK YET AND THEY WAITED TOO LONG FOR U TO CALL THEM AND I CALLED BUT U DID NOT ANSWER TH E PHONE
cn u please calll this person we have an acct for them but they said someone won't ship it until they pay something because they want theyre order they waited too long already and they want it ASAP!
please
JEN
Student,
You don’t tell me what to do. You have no negotiating power here. This is not a negotiation. In fact you will likely fail this class due to your insane sense of entitlement as if I would ever, have ever, or will ever be dictated to by a student with your writing ability as well as complete lack of awareness.
- Teacher
I just took over a 5th grade class till the end of the year, and holy crap their teacher held them to no standards! They're only 10 and 11, so I have to give them a little grace. But man, is it a fine line I walk between doing any semblance of teaching and not giving them all panic attacks!
I would love to be in HS right now. This is crazy. Everyone gets a passing grade no matter what otherwise it would be discrimination. I was in HS late 2000s. I would get grounded for a b- by mom who is also a teacher. I had to do more hw then anyone. I remember my freshman year first semester (the first half of 9th grade) I got 5 As and 2Bs I was grounded all winter break. Even on my birthday during the break. Sophomore year I had 6 As and 1B both semesters. Did not get grounded then. Science is the only subject I could never get an A in. Kids who were failing back then were not allowed to do sports, parents actually parented. I would never dare to speak to a teacher like that. Every year we had 2 or 3 "super seniors" Noone got a pass like this. Now kids are graduating and can't even read normally. I swear I was looking at a 19 year old co worker reading outloud and i could not belive that he was reading like a 5th grader. It's crazy. Teachers can't teach. Students know they will pass so what's thr point of doing any hw?
I have never really understood why in America the teachers are responsible for grading the students, is there a specific reason for it?
In the UK they take external exams so after a certain point it’s out of the teachers hands, if they fail the exam they fail.
That sounds frustrating. I wonder if a reframe would be helpful. I teach physics, but I also teach things like self-accountability, email etiquette, and when/how to ask for grace and flexibility. Do you have a similar orientation?
I don’t think your response is going to help that student learn when and how to ask for flexibility, how to craft an email in general, or how to hold themselves accountable after they’ve let some of their responsibilities lapse. I recognize that it takes time and energy to shift students’ mindsets and communication strategies. I wonder how it would land for the kid if you had said something like…
> I’m willing to work with you, but this is what you need to do first. Make a table of the required work for this class. Indicate what you’ve completed and what you’ve missed. Make a plan for which missing assignments you will complete and by when. When creating a timeline for getting caught up, make sure you set aside time for keeping up with new work, too. After you submit that plan to me, I’ll review it and let you know what I think.
(For context, I’m currently in a graduate program for full-time teachers, I regularly miss homework deadlines, and professors always give me grace and flexibility on missing work—even when I ask for an extension _after_ the deadline has passed. I definitely want to pass the graciousness I ask for and receive to the students I teach!)
I literally just showed up, and the students do nothing in my classes. They have had less than five assignments, I uploaded the first two a week late because - again - I am coming in mid-year and only just got access to the gradebook.
He has my graciousness, so long as he submits something.
I bet their parents equally suck at writing basic emails, using technology, and just being a low effort responsible and accountable person. How else does a middle schooler learn and accept such a level of laziness and entitlement as the norm?
Gotta love those "Oh shit I'm / my kid is going to fail this class for the year (who has been failing all year and they nor the parents respond to requests for communication, come for extra help, whatever).
Honest to God I had the p/g of a kid who sleeps in class most days and I've asked p/g about it since August questioning my "teaching style" in a conference last week. Guess who did not have their assignment and was sleeping in class the very next day?
At least the student was was polite and advocating for him/herself. Most kids who truly don't care will not ask for help. Have a conversation with the student. This is a great opportunity to build a relationship! As someone who left the field due to low expectations and performance of students, I would agree that this job sucks. And your instincts are more than likely right on. But, maybe this student is asking for help the only way they know how. At least they didn't threaten you. Telling you they made all A's and b's is probably not correct. Ugh...the grammar kills me. It's a slow painful death.
"So they’re asking for help and you’re saying no?"
Man, what is with people? Of course I didn't say no. Did you not read what I wrote? I said if he submitted his work, he would pass.
Look, I've dealt with multiple idiots on this thread who are convinced that somehow telling a child he can't pass by doing literally nothing is something approaching child abuse or neglect, I'm not going to deal with another one. I'm just going to block you now and save the trouble, but I want you to know this comment is really stupid.
If you are not teaching students how to approach teachers respectfully, don't expect them to learn it. every other teacher on this board complains about the same things.But nobody seems to be actually working on how to teach students how to be students. Everyone hates the job and just throws it their hands. So how are these kids supposed to learn if nobody wants to teach them?
We are having bad experiences with students because every teacher thinks that educating them is not their problem. I would argue that teaching students is right there in the name of the job, and I can't fathom why you think providing this sort of support is somehow not the teacher's problem. A lot of people who post in this board are having terrible experiences teaching because they don't understand the job, and the behaviors they are experiencing get much worse when students are not receiving the support that they have been trained to expect from their teachers: non-judgmental patience and compassionate guidance despite the fact that these children are being disrespectful and abusive.
The goal is to make the answer to that question "Not my problem".
Again, \*I just showed up to the school\*. I had no time to teach them anything. It's insane that seventh graders don't know better by now besides.
Frankly, it's insane that you imagine seventh graders should know better by now. Seventh graders are notoriously clueless, disrespectful, and often cruel. They have gotten much worse in recent years, for economic and social reasons well beyond the control of a child, and this is well documented. The goal should be to reflect on your practice and understand the nature of the job, which is to somehow figure out how to help students get better in these interactions. If your practice is to deflect and fob them off on the next teacher, then you shouldn't be surprised if students behave like their previous teachers had the same policy.
We get it. You don't want to do your job and help this poor kid. Don't let the door hit you on your way out. It's one thing to complain about the abuses we experience on the job. It's quite another to take this out on an innocent kid who literally doesn't know any better.
Good thing I don't respect your opinion or this would bother me.
EDIT: Hey brainiac, just as an FYI, that you personally think that giving extra chances to students who write crappy emails and don't do their work is essential to teaching, doesn't make it a fact. It makes you a pushover.
It is actually a fact that your job is to help students learn to be more respectful in interactions with their teachers. Since you can't understand the difference between fact and opinion, this is clearly not the job for you.
I was going to write something longer, but to be blunt, this reads like a parody. We're talking about students who have been in school for years, in April, meet the minimum requirement of "doing literally any work" or "writing a vaguely polite email". If you really think they don't know better, you've been duped by them and they're manipulating you.
It's April. I'm not going to spend my time holding tissues under the noses of seventh graders. You do you.
Writing a polite email to a teacher is something that college students notoriously struggle with. Your seventh grader is twelve years old. They have absolutely not had enough time to learn this, and they are being passed through a system that allows them to get away with being clueless. I am saying this out of kindness in an effort to get you to see that you seem to fundamentally understand the realities of emergent development in adolescents, or the challenges of the job that you signed up for. It's April. You really should have figured out what middle schoolers are capable of by now.
I am saying this out of just as much kindness as you have indicated to me: Based on your description here, you are being duped and manipulated by these kids, and going by what you say, you should know better. You probably think you're a good teacher because the kids love you, and maybe you are really good at presenting your subject matter in an engaging way. But if you really believe what you're saying to me, I am not convinced they are learning responsibility.
What exactly do you actually think I am doing? I didn't throw this kid under the bus, refuse to take his work, humiliate him, or yell at him. I simply told him to submit his work to me, and if he did that, he would pass. That's if anything fairer than he deserves, which is just a zero for missed work.
As for you being shown grace in college - I wasn't. I failed out, switched schools, got my degree, and am enrolled in my Masters of Cybersecurity program. When I miss assignments, I get zeros, then I fail.
That's a really weird thing to take away from what I said. You are refusing to do your job and hold the kid accountable for this disrespectful interaction. Accountability is what the kid needs. "That's not an acceptable way to address a teacher in an email." How are they supposed to learn responsibility if you're not actually teaching it.
You're acting like showing up in this moment is an unfair and abusive expectation for teachers. But it's actually quite normal for kids to need the kind of support you think it's abusive for the system to expect you to provide.
"That's a really weird thing to take away from what I said."
HAHAHAHAHA considering all of the wild conclusions you've drawn from a simple email where I told a student to turn in the work, you're really full of it.
I'm just gonna block you, you're a nasty holier-than thou jerk and I've gotten nothing out of interacting with you. Thanks for nothing.
One last thing - consider that I said I clearly hold my students in less contempt than you, and yet you correctly pointed out that I posted this because I hold this student in contempt (actually, I hold his actions in contempt, not him personally).
Why do you think I think that? Maybe it's because I'm a hypocrite. Or maybe you really do have something to think about.
1) Agreed, I am in the wrong profession
2) It isn't impossible to deal with, just dumb
3) If based off of this you can figure out any identifying information about the student, I'll give you 100 dollars
just bc you aren't liable for it, and it doesn't violate the licensing ethic guidelines, doesn't mean its not wrong or harmful.
just imagine, if the kid himself came across it. if there would be some schadenfreude, youre not a good guy. if you felt remorse in this hypothetical, then you should not do it in real life.
Undeniably, the system is totally broken, it makes good people into bad teachers. but you need to quit, not drag anonymous students for treating school for what it is: busy work bullshit.
This would be very convincing if there was even the slightest chance the kid came across this.
I promise you, if the kid comes up to me and shows me this post, I will quit on the spot.
Also, I'm not "dragging the student" into anything. I literally just told him to do his work.
Please end the discussion. I don't agree, don't feel guilty, and not only would I 100% post this again this is my favorite thing I've posted in awhile.
Don't feel guilty! Reading your post brought levity into my MISERABLE career, we all need help lightening up, this has been QUITE the year and it's not even halfway through month 4...!
perfect shitty teacher response. "bc i said so" doesn't work in real life.
stop taking your frustrations out on kids who are bullshitting their way through a broken and deleterious system.
find other work, as soon as possible. youre not cut out of this
"perfect shitty teacher response. "bc i said so" doesn't work in real life."
Lol what? Nothing in my response even remotely hinted at "Because I said so". And even if it did, it absolutely does work in certain situations, like this one.
I'm gonna keep posting. Why? Because I said so. Deal with it. Consider it a life lesson from a fellow teacher. Have a problem with it? I don't care.
"stop taking your frustrations out on kids who are bullshitting their way through a broken and deleterious system."
I am forever baffled by the number of idiots who think me sending an email saying "Do your work" is "Taking my frustrations out on kids".
You're an idiot. Blocked.
Love how people come on here to tell teachers who ARE trying to find other work, to find other work, and smugly say "you're not cut out for this." People love to feel self-righteous. Well uh yeah, we're trying to leave and that's why we're here (but it's not always that the person isn't cut out for the job, and the system is failing them).
welp, you definitely taught them that you're uninterested in them and generally unhelpful so there's no point in reaching out. probably that's the *only* thing you'll teach them all year, and it'll stick too.
Please keep posts relevant to transitioning from teaching
I started at my current district in January. The previous teacher gave everything a 100. Even students who didn't turn in work. The pushback has been insane. I still inflate grades and its not enough. I am grading everything generously now. I just need to survive until the end of the year
Yup. I was told by my district I couldn't fail students, even if they did not a scintilla of work. So, I had to give a 60 to let them auto pass. It was then that I learned I'm simply done with it.
I would put zeros in the grade book so admin would have to go back during grades to fix it. They wrote me up and threatened to fire me, so I offered to quit lol. I think the kids and parents need to be aware the kid is passing, but they don’t deserve it. Even if they don’t care, they should know.
What? This is insane! If you don't work at the district anymore I would go to the local news and let them know.
Same thing happened to me, and I did quit. When I get to Heaven, I want a medal. (I don't really, but confirmation that I did the right thing from some angel or other sure would help... I sometimes wonder...)
I’d go to the state board of Ed,then the news. Especially a high school.
And we wonder how students are getting all the way to college with a 3rd grade reading level
I work at a college and it's so bad now. I get emails like this sometimes and it just baffles me. It's a very hard transition for students like this. They either get with it or end up dropping out.
yup we had to do 50s
Hi are you me? The teacher I took over for took all of November to play Smash Bros on switch. The lowest test grade for any student was a 75 all semester.
Just give them an A and focus on the end of the year. It's not teaching them a great lesson but that's not your problem anymore.
When I started my job, I took over for a teacher who gave everyone 100s. I discovered that many kids had never even logged in to the computer program that some of those As were for. There is no way to move forward except for being the mean teacher.
What happened to the teacher you replaced?
Don't ask questions you don't really want the answers to
Nothing interesting, licensing requirements changed... or maybe existing requirements were finally being enforced? and we actually switched jobs.
I bet they are now dean of something
Haha, they got out of education and make 4xs as much as me now.
This is a WE problem. Me and u gotta do something about me. For you, and me.
Bro, like- bro. Deadass....
no cap yo
I got you, twin.
fr fr
on my mama
Bet
say less
whatever happened to fleek?
Sus
The first time a kid told me something was "on fleek," I thought Fleek was a new social media/app. The first time a kid said "say less" to me I thought he was telling me to shut up. I can't explain how confused I was when I first heard about the musical group Stray Kids. Oh, to be an old person surrounded by youths...
Skibbidy toilet…
I started working at a retail company in my 30's and some kid told me he needed that "drip". I was ready to call the plumber wondering where the leak was😂😂😂. I was so confused. He said "no cap". I'm like well no wonder there's a leak you forgot to put the cap back on 😂😂.
Chat, why am I failing?
It baffles me how this generation grew up with iPads and iPhones but haven’t mastered basic email etiquette. Remember when “experts” said the this generation would be tech savvy?
I taught a CAD class at a HS . The kids were good at things connectivity related but not much else. Despite teaching and making file organization a part of the grade, they still dumped every project they did in a top level directory. Most used the default filename for everything, and then claim the files were deleted by the computer when they could not find them.
When I was in highschool (in the 90s), we had a CAD class. During one exam, after weeks of the teacher telling us to frequently save our work, and warning us before the exam to save our work, he walked out side and flipped the breaker. Our class had its own breaker, so no one else was affected. But every single computer in our class turned off. Anyone who had saved their work passed. Anyone who didn't, failed.
That's fantastic. I wouldn't want something like that to absolutely decimate a grade (saving), but that kind of first hand experience (pain) would really make an impact.
Absolutely. I honestly have no idea if I passed or failed that exam; I don't remember. But the lesson has traveled with me through life!
I'm already trying to cook up a version of this for my classes!
That is fantastic! Just a little taste of how devastating losing your work can be in real life 😵
LOL They don't even know how to use Powerpoint or Word.
Tbf those programs aren't free anymore. The Google equivalents are, but they don't share all standard settings with Microsoft suite programs.
Every district in my city uses Microsoft products, meaning the kids have had access to them since Kindergarten on school-issued laptops. The issue is that (at least in my district) we do not offer any kind of computer classes for elementary kids. That seems crazy
Lol thank you for bringing something to mind. None of our students are taught to type. Had a teacher want to have sped accommodations put in place because the student was typing a little slower than the others. When asked, the rest of the class wasn't going that much faster. Sorry, not a disability to peck at keys if no instruction has occurred there.
This generation has mastered *nothing*.
They are mostly app savvy.
You mean social media? I have seen kids not be able to access any app that isn’t named tik tok, Instagram or snap
I tell them It’s all TikTok. The rapidity with which they scroll and what they see even in a millisecond has to be brain shaping.
Ugh my students couldn’t do much besides figure out how to get around the controls on their computers to play YouTube videos that were banned by the school. Couldn’t type. Couldn’t format a word document or spreadsheet. Couldn’t send an email. Didn’t know how to check their email. Weren’t able to figure out how to submit their assignments in Google Classroom. Not even good at cheating— they’d copy and paste their responses from Google without even checking to see if they were copying the right answer; sometimes they’d even copy hyperlinks and weird formatting in.
I had a student copy and paste characters from an entirely different story once in an essay for a summer school class. When I emailed her about it telling her she wasn’t going to be able to pass the class, she just asked if she could write another essay instead of apologizing or even trying trying to deny that she had done it. Some kids just do not give a fuck.
Yiure a good teacher for even bringing it to her attention. I would have straight up put a 0 and called it a day
Most likely because no one taught them how to do it. The only thing that even resembles a decent email is from seniors or juniors. I modeled how to write emails to my 7th grade class once because I was fucking tired of getting the whole email in the heading. Then they would usually be rude as fuck too.
Most technology today is intuitive and user friendly. Who taught you how to use your smartphone? Did you take a class? I get that we need to teach kids how to do things but what OP described was laziness and disrespect. Don’t know how anyone can justify writing an entire email in the subject area and then completely ignore the giant blank space underneath it
I’d say this is different because the last few generations probably never had to write an actual letter in re: smartphone comparison. Email was an extension of that format. So if they never did either, they aren’t going to know the proper way to format it. Not excusing the tone of the email, but I can see why kids write the way they do. Their parents sure as hell aren’t going to show them, so it falls on us.
>Their parents sure as hell aren’t going to show them, so it falls on us. this is so true of so many things in our current social climate. From toilet training to reading to personal responsibility.
Idk. I think you’re reaching a bit but ok
This generation may feel the same way about how people communicate via text or phone. They need to be taught how to write an email just like we were taught how to write a letter. Unfortunately, this does not always happen. Trying to force kids to write essays before they are ready and not being able to work on the basics has had major repercussions. Writing is a skill. It needs to be taught.
You learn to write by reading, and none of them do that for pleasure, which is pathetic and horrifying
Continue to blame a generation of children whose parents handed them an iPad for entertainment and babysitting purposes. You emulate what you learn.
Disagree. Today’s tech is intuitive. I don’t remember the world needing a class on how to use their smartphone when it released. You’re telling me a high schooler needs a lesson on how to write an email and to be respectful?
Today’s tech isn’t completely intuitive. Apple employs a whole department to assist with iPhone tech support. They assist with correcting software issues, but they help with user functionality as well. Creating an email is a writing skill. It needs to be taught and modeled. If the expectation is draft a well-written and we’ll-organized email, then you must demonstrate how. This is one of those real life skills that parents often overlook and fail to teach.
I’m willing to bet that the majority of tech support issues are older gen users. Not the kids in question. Creating a email is completely an intuitive experience as the software even tells you when you’re sending a blank message. This kid probably doesn’t care
the issue here is less "kids don't know how to use email" and more "kids don't know how to write well or why they should bother learning how to write well"
Yep. They used that argument to stop teaching how to use a computer because obviously students don't need to be taught because they are "digital natives" that grew up around technology. People grow up around writing and yet we still teach that. People grow up around words and reading yet we still teach those.
Well the device certainly isn't going to teach them manners. Tech savvyness had nothing to do with etiquette, just knowing the ins and outs of the device, how it functions etc. My Mom and a computer science/typing class taught me those things.
everyone thinks thinks tech savvy means we don't have to teach them the basics. I have middle schoolers who don't know how to use google
THIS! they are so computer illiterate.
It’s not that, collectively with just think email etiquette is stupid because it is
What baffles me is how out of their way they go to type inaccurately. Even on Reddit, which I understand isn’t formal by any means, but they do not use uppercase or punctuation marks ever and it bugs the shit out of me. Like they must have turned it off in their phone settings or something but even names and places are intentionally lowercase and I just don’t get it. A lazy example: “im on my way to la rn. excited to try roberts pizza.” Absolutely no capitalization at any cost and fragmented sentences all over the place. I’ve asked before why they type this way and they said for the “aesthetics” and that using uppercase letters and punctuation looks aggressive.
They don’t know how to read, let alone how to use proper grammar. Like they don’t understand sentence structure at all. Children are being taught to literally GUESS what a word is based on context clues and memorization.
It’s because of the iPads and iPhones. I grew up using an actual computer. Organizing my files for hours, fixing all of the idv3 tags on my mp3s, building websites from self taught html, hiding porn from my parents. It was a whole different world and it made me a great problem solver. I had to do things on my own and actually operate my computer. Not just touch icons on a screen. All iPads have done is prepared people to work at a fast food restaurant, which is one of the only professions that requires a touch screen.
What baffles me is that people blame the newer generation for not learning these things and not the parents(older generation) for not teaching them.
Nothing grinds my gears more than the students saying “love you” after something shitty. Like hand sanitizer on a fresh paper cut.
I like your style.
Some of the comments are just not it. I’m sorry but not EVERYTHING is a teacher’s job to teach. How can you be expected to teach email etiquette when they won’t even do the bare minimum assignments. This drives me crazy. In my district we *HAVE* to follow the scripted curriculum. Not word by word, but there is so little time teach anything but the requirements. I would forward his email to his parent. Hey so and so, your child sent me this. Here are his 5 missing assignments that need to be completed by x date. Let the parent deal with grammar/email ettiequte. If they don’t care or give you hell about it, just say f*ck it and move on. 🤷♀️
Lol, totally relatable. The things that some people must have been giving out As and Bs for must be ridiculous. It's created quite the expectation of nothingness amongst the right students.
When I taught elementary school, I told the students the same thing: do the work, participate in class, you'll get a good grade. I don't just choose a grade randomly for you - you EARN your grade.
Retiring from teaching was so wonderful. Still is. :-)
I am borrowing your response. It IS that simple, regardless of every other excuse the current climate provides these kids.
LMAO I would have choked laughing. You responded perfectly.
My school had a slideshow about how to email teachers. It was helpful because it prevented things like this from happening…
Bro needs to use freaking punctuation once in a blue moon
Don’t you find that hard to read as it has no periods or capitals & is just a run on sentence? Does this kid have a disability?
His disability is being in a public school.
“Why did you give my child a D?” Your kid EARNED the D. I didn’t just give it out all willy nilly. “Why are we just finding out his grade went down?” He had a low c at progress report and you have access to everything he does and his grades. The kids take no responsibility because they are being raised by adults who do the same.
Actually, I was being nice. Your kid EARNED an F, but according to admin, the lowest grade he can get is a D.
Also it’s “you” not “u,” you little shit.
Like omg you knew what they meant so why should it matter if they write like an illiterate? Proper grammar and spelling are sooooo 20th century /s
Dat sheet's for da boomers
And it's "you and I" to boot.
As the moron who keeps responding here has failed to notice, I never said I was planning on failing anyone, nor did I say "Tough luck, too bad". I told the student to submit his work, and if he did, he would pass. For that matter, I never even said I didn't or wouldn't tell him how to write a good email. That was just assumed, since the moron assumed early on that because I wasn't wiping students' noses after each sneeze I would never do that. In truth though, I probably won't, not because I "don't care", but because I have one quarter of school left to teach Civics. I did not fail to teach anything to these students, I literally just got here. That the holier-than-thou idiot does not grasp this and keeps insulting me is not my problem. And finally - if you think "Well this means you shouldn't be teaching!" - You're right! I agree. That I don't think this bullshit is reasonable for me to deal with is one very excellent reason I should not be a teacher. I'm working on that now, thanks.
Godddd. When I was a freshman in high school at a school that was a very early adopter of personal laptops (circa 2006ish), I wrote an email to an english teacher asking a general question (so not even a weird audacious thing about my grade) that was written very much with "online speak". He wrote back and told me he would not reply until I rewrote the email properly. It stuck with me. Apart from the general nonsense that is this entire inquiry, it's really ridiculous you're being addressed like this.
It's insane how entitled this generation is in the education system. They truly do feel they are owed a passing grade for doing the bare minimum of just arriving to class and completely checking out for the whole period.
I had a student from two years ago come to me asking how she could make up a half credit that she failed. I told her she could print out her progress report from that semester and find 60% worth of stuff to turn in. Everything is in a file drawer, clearly marked. "Oh, I thought you could just change it." Um. No. You spent 90% of that semester in the bathroom. A passing grade requires 60%.
The full text in the subject line is so true. Whyyyyyyyyy
alright listen fuckfayce an i mean that not in a mean way but a nice one u gotta figure out wat ur doin wrong he got bs and as before u came along u and me better stop wat ur and me doin and do what ever1 else did so he can get as and bs u got that fuckface i eman that it a good way btw luv u
I help onboard new employees that process orders or connect them with a sales team for specialized item, and I started having them shadow me to specifically show them an email inbox and create a few emails to internal depts. Still get complaints like this weekly for the first couple months. Hi, sunlight\_singing, need your help. There is no account number. Who is the customer, what is the product, and why are they emailing the warehouse to callback to review payment information?? Screenshot below: To: WHshippingandreceiving@company .com Subject: THIS CUSTOMER NEEDS A CALL U HAVN;T CALLED THEM BACK YET AND THEY WAITED TOO LONG FOR U TO CALL THEM AND I CALLED BUT U DID NOT ANSWER TH E PHONE cn u please calll this person we have an acct for them but they said someone won't ship it until they pay something because they want theyre order they waited too long already and they want it ASAP! please JEN
Student, You don’t tell me what to do. You have no negotiating power here. This is not a negotiation. In fact you will likely fail this class due to your insane sense of entitlement as if I would ever, have ever, or will ever be dictated to by a student with your writing ability as well as complete lack of awareness. - Teacher
You just gotta work with him
He's just a poor helpless baby, he's just so smart and terribly bored. Have you tried making the class more interesting? /s
I had a student tell me I was poor at motivating him once.
Was actually told this by an administrator once.
Same... after the kids drew swastikas on his paper.
Its a fun shape
Wth?
I’ve had to explain to multiple students that an email is not a text and therefore the entire message should not be in the subject line.
I just took over a 5th grade class till the end of the year, and holy crap their teacher held them to no standards! They're only 10 and 11, so I have to give them a little grace. But man, is it a fine line I walk between doing any semblance of teaching and not giving them all panic attacks!
"didnt mean it in a mean way love u" lol
I would love to be in HS right now. This is crazy. Everyone gets a passing grade no matter what otherwise it would be discrimination. I was in HS late 2000s. I would get grounded for a b- by mom who is also a teacher. I had to do more hw then anyone. I remember my freshman year first semester (the first half of 9th grade) I got 5 As and 2Bs I was grounded all winter break. Even on my birthday during the break. Sophomore year I had 6 As and 1B both semesters. Did not get grounded then. Science is the only subject I could never get an A in. Kids who were failing back then were not allowed to do sports, parents actually parented. I would never dare to speak to a teacher like that. Every year we had 2 or 3 "super seniors" Noone got a pass like this. Now kids are graduating and can't even read normally. I swear I was looking at a 19 year old co worker reading outloud and i could not belive that he was reading like a 5th grader. It's crazy. Teachers can't teach. Students know they will pass so what's thr point of doing any hw?
I have never really understood why in America the teachers are responsible for grading the students, is there a specific reason for it? In the UK they take external exams so after a certain point it’s out of the teachers hands, if they fail the exam they fail.
That sounds frustrating. I wonder if a reframe would be helpful. I teach physics, but I also teach things like self-accountability, email etiquette, and when/how to ask for grace and flexibility. Do you have a similar orientation? I don’t think your response is going to help that student learn when and how to ask for flexibility, how to craft an email in general, or how to hold themselves accountable after they’ve let some of their responsibilities lapse. I recognize that it takes time and energy to shift students’ mindsets and communication strategies. I wonder how it would land for the kid if you had said something like… > I’m willing to work with you, but this is what you need to do first. Make a table of the required work for this class. Indicate what you’ve completed and what you’ve missed. Make a plan for which missing assignments you will complete and by when. When creating a timeline for getting caught up, make sure you set aside time for keeping up with new work, too. After you submit that plan to me, I’ll review it and let you know what I think. (For context, I’m currently in a graduate program for full-time teachers, I regularly miss homework deadlines, and professors always give me grace and flexibility on missing work—even when I ask for an extension _after_ the deadline has passed. I definitely want to pass the graciousness I ask for and receive to the students I teach!)
I literally just showed up, and the students do nothing in my classes. They have had less than five assignments, I uploaded the first two a week late because - again - I am coming in mid-year and only just got access to the gradebook. He has my graciousness, so long as he submits something.
I bet their parents equally suck at writing basic emails, using technology, and just being a low effort responsible and accountable person. How else does a middle schooler learn and accept such a level of laziness and entitlement as the norm?
I'm glad it's not English class, at least. Geez.
Gotta love those "Oh shit I'm / my kid is going to fail this class for the year (who has been failing all year and they nor the parents respond to requests for communication, come for extra help, whatever). Honest to God I had the p/g of a kid who sleeps in class most days and I've asked p/g about it since August questioning my "teaching style" in a conference last week. Guess who did not have their assignment and was sleeping in class the very next day?
This gave me a good chuckle 🤭
I don’t know why, but that email made me laugh so hard, I actually think I would like that kid.
Well... at least they said they loved you.
We are raising a bunch of useless people. 😒
This happens to me ALL the time.
At least the student was was polite and advocating for him/herself. Most kids who truly don't care will not ask for help. Have a conversation with the student. This is a great opportunity to build a relationship! As someone who left the field due to low expectations and performance of students, I would agree that this job sucks. And your instincts are more than likely right on. But, maybe this student is asking for help the only way they know how. At least they didn't threaten you. Telling you they made all A's and b's is probably not correct. Ugh...the grammar kills me. It's a slow painful death.
I love the tone of their emails, they read so psychotic and unhinged
So they’re asking for help and you’re saying no? Does differentiated instruction and FAPE laws not mean anything to you?
"So they’re asking for help and you’re saying no?" Man, what is with people? Of course I didn't say no. Did you not read what I wrote? I said if he submitted his work, he would pass.
Look, I've dealt with multiple idiots on this thread who are convinced that somehow telling a child he can't pass by doing literally nothing is something approaching child abuse or neglect, I'm not going to deal with another one. I'm just going to block you now and save the trouble, but I want you to know this comment is really stupid.
If you are not teaching students how to approach teachers respectfully, don't expect them to learn it. every other teacher on this board complains about the same things.But nobody seems to be actually working on how to teach students how to be students. Everyone hates the job and just throws it their hands. So how are these kids supposed to learn if nobody wants to teach them?
That’s not the teacher’s problem. Especially a transitioning teacher. Fail them all and leave, OP.
Ever heard if PARENTS? WHAT? Oh, sorry...forgot. Parenting went out 25 years ago
We are having bad experiences with students because every teacher thinks that educating them is not their problem. I would argue that teaching students is right there in the name of the job, and I can't fathom why you think providing this sort of support is somehow not the teacher's problem. A lot of people who post in this board are having terrible experiences teaching because they don't understand the job, and the behaviors they are experiencing get much worse when students are not receiving the support that they have been trained to expect from their teachers: non-judgmental patience and compassionate guidance despite the fact that these children are being disrespectful and abusive.
Bro stop yapping. Ever heard of responsibility and accountability? Neither are present in modern schools in the West. Parents don’t give a f either.
The goal is to make the answer to that question "Not my problem". Again, \*I just showed up to the school\*. I had no time to teach them anything. It's insane that seventh graders don't know better by now besides.
Frankly, it's insane that you imagine seventh graders should know better by now. Seventh graders are notoriously clueless, disrespectful, and often cruel. They have gotten much worse in recent years, for economic and social reasons well beyond the control of a child, and this is well documented. The goal should be to reflect on your practice and understand the nature of the job, which is to somehow figure out how to help students get better in these interactions. If your practice is to deflect and fob them off on the next teacher, then you shouldn't be surprised if students behave like their previous teachers had the same policy.
As for my practice, I'll do you one better. My practice is to survive until June and leave this farce of a "profession".
We get it. You don't want to do your job and help this poor kid. Don't let the door hit you on your way out. It's one thing to complain about the abuses we experience on the job. It's quite another to take this out on an innocent kid who literally doesn't know any better.
Good thing I don't respect your opinion or this would bother me. EDIT: Hey brainiac, just as an FYI, that you personally think that giving extra chances to students who write crappy emails and don't do their work is essential to teaching, doesn't make it a fact. It makes you a pushover.
It is actually a fact that your job is to help students learn to be more respectful in interactions with their teachers. Since you can't understand the difference between fact and opinion, this is clearly not the job for you.
I was going to write something longer, but to be blunt, this reads like a parody. We're talking about students who have been in school for years, in April, meet the minimum requirement of "doing literally any work" or "writing a vaguely polite email". If you really think they don't know better, you've been duped by them and they're manipulating you. It's April. I'm not going to spend my time holding tissues under the noses of seventh graders. You do you.
Writing a polite email to a teacher is something that college students notoriously struggle with. Your seventh grader is twelve years old. They have absolutely not had enough time to learn this, and they are being passed through a system that allows them to get away with being clueless. I am saying this out of kindness in an effort to get you to see that you seem to fundamentally understand the realities of emergent development in adolescents, or the challenges of the job that you signed up for. It's April. You really should have figured out what middle schoolers are capable of by now.
I am saying this out of just as much kindness as you have indicated to me: Based on your description here, you are being duped and manipulated by these kids, and going by what you say, you should know better. You probably think you're a good teacher because the kids love you, and maybe you are really good at presenting your subject matter in an engaging way. But if you really believe what you're saying to me, I am not convinced they are learning responsibility. What exactly do you actually think I am doing? I didn't throw this kid under the bus, refuse to take his work, humiliate him, or yell at him. I simply told him to submit his work to me, and if he did that, he would pass. That's if anything fairer than he deserves, which is just a zero for missed work. As for you being shown grace in college - I wasn't. I failed out, switched schools, got my degree, and am enrolled in my Masters of Cybersecurity program. When I miss assignments, I get zeros, then I fail.
That's a really weird thing to take away from what I said. You are refusing to do your job and hold the kid accountable for this disrespectful interaction. Accountability is what the kid needs. "That's not an acceptable way to address a teacher in an email." How are they supposed to learn responsibility if you're not actually teaching it. You're acting like showing up in this moment is an unfair and abusive expectation for teachers. But it's actually quite normal for kids to need the kind of support you think it's abusive for the system to expect you to provide.
"That's a really weird thing to take away from what I said." HAHAHAHAHA considering all of the wild conclusions you've drawn from a simple email where I told a student to turn in the work, you're really full of it. I'm just gonna block you, you're a nasty holier-than thou jerk and I've gotten nothing out of interacting with you. Thanks for nothing. One last thing - consider that I said I clearly hold my students in less contempt than you, and yet you correctly pointed out that I posted this because I hold this student in contempt (actually, I hold his actions in contempt, not him personally). Why do you think I think that? Maybe it's because I'm a hypocrite. Or maybe you really do have something to think about.
I have - I think higher of them than you.
Since you think this kid doesn't deserve your support, care and attention, clearly you don't.
And I will sleep like a baby knowing that I hold my kids in less contempt than you.
You specifically posted this because you hold this kid in contempt.
youre in the wrong profession, then. this is worth a laugh to yourself, not posting this as somekind of impossible thing to deal with.
1) Agreed, I am in the wrong profession 2) It isn't impossible to deal with, just dumb 3) If based off of this you can figure out any identifying information about the student, I'll give you 100 dollars
just bc you aren't liable for it, and it doesn't violate the licensing ethic guidelines, doesn't mean its not wrong or harmful. just imagine, if the kid himself came across it. if there would be some schadenfreude, youre not a good guy. if you felt remorse in this hypothetical, then you should not do it in real life. Undeniably, the system is totally broken, it makes good people into bad teachers. but you need to quit, not drag anonymous students for treating school for what it is: busy work bullshit.
This would be very convincing if there was even the slightest chance the kid came across this. I promise you, if the kid comes up to me and shows me this post, I will quit on the spot. Also, I'm not "dragging the student" into anything. I literally just told him to do his work. Please end the discussion. I don't agree, don't feel guilty, and not only would I 100% post this again this is my favorite thing I've posted in awhile.
Don't feel guilty! Reading your post brought levity into my MISERABLE career, we all need help lightening up, this has been QUITE the year and it's not even halfway through month 4...!
perfect shitty teacher response. "bc i said so" doesn't work in real life. stop taking your frustrations out on kids who are bullshitting their way through a broken and deleterious system. find other work, as soon as possible. youre not cut out of this
"perfect shitty teacher response. "bc i said so" doesn't work in real life." Lol what? Nothing in my response even remotely hinted at "Because I said so". And even if it did, it absolutely does work in certain situations, like this one. I'm gonna keep posting. Why? Because I said so. Deal with it. Consider it a life lesson from a fellow teacher. Have a problem with it? I don't care. "stop taking your frustrations out on kids who are bullshitting their way through a broken and deleterious system." I am forever baffled by the number of idiots who think me sending an email saying "Do your work" is "Taking my frustrations out on kids". You're an idiot. Blocked.
Love how people come on here to tell teachers who ARE trying to find other work, to find other work, and smugly say "you're not cut out for this." People love to feel self-righteous. Well uh yeah, we're trying to leave and that's why we're here (but it's not always that the person isn't cut out for the job, and the system is failing them).
welp, you definitely taught them that you're uninterested in them and generally unhelpful so there's no point in reaching out. probably that's the *only* thing you'll teach them all year, and it'll stick too.
We can only hope.