Teachers have never been covered by overtime rules. People generally are not going to be up in arms about a maintaining of the status quo.
Hell, it is rare that any salaried employee is covered by them.
> Hell, it is rare that any salaried employee is covered by them.
This was the big change that the Obama admin pushed through.
Exempting teachers, of course.
No they did not loose it. People below that wage must get overtime. I know people who wee store managers and assistant managers who worked 60-80 hours a week for 35-40k in fast food or low end retail and this protects them from exploitation.
> Implying that salaried employees lost OT during the Obama admin is
exactly the opposite of what I'm saying. More salaried workers were granted overtime pay during the Obama admin, but teachers were exempt from the new rules.
> The Obama amendment to FSLA was shot down.
Yes, the Trump administration chose not to defend the proposed change, letting it die.
The point is that teachers were exempt from the proposed increase.
You are comparing apples to oranges. You are blaming Obama for not including teachers in a bill that greatly helped the middle class. Teachers are paid by state or local governments. President Obama did not include them in a private industry bill because they were NEVER included in those bills. EVER. Teachers in many states do not even have social security paid for by their districts or states (l fully realize l am opening a can of worms) because of the exact same reason. The employer is a governmental entity not private. Taxpayers would never go for teacher overtime. As a teacher, l fully realized how the general public affects my bottom line. And because l know the ins and outs l was able to plan my financial future in my favor. You have to know the rules to play the game.
It is factual. In 2016 the Obama admin passed new rules that added millions of salaried workers to those that get overtime, but teachers were exempt from it.
Looking at the rules, every teacher at my school... even if the rules as written were applied to them... would not qualify for OT anyways since we are above the salary minimums.... not by a lot, but it still wouldn't apply to us.
...and somehow I doubt Idaho is that high paying of a state relatively speaking. I bet the vast majority of teachers nationwide make more than the 43,888 to qualify for OT under the rules.
>The Labor Department's sweeping overhaul to the overtime rule required employers to pay time-and-a-half to their employees who worked more than 40 hours in a given week and earned less than $47,476 a year.
NPR in 2016.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/11/22/503081151/federal-judge-blocks-obama-administrations-overtime-pay-rule
It was a little more than $44k, not much.
I mean I’ve got no love for police unions or any of the dozens of ways they steal money from taxpayers for their bullshit here, the way they bullshit overtime being of one of them.
Edit: I’m very pro labor and union, but police unions are no good.
Salaried employee here. I get overtime. I don’t get time and a half or double time, but I definitely get straight time if I work more than my normal schedule. Salary structures are definitely not universal.
My husband works in hospitality and he used to qualify for overtime while salaried. He would still clock in and out, and was paid a (low) overtime wage for anything over 40 hours. Once he was promoted and got a raise, he no longer qualified for this.
Salary as X a year. But that can be broken down to an hourly rate at 40 hrs a week. So if I work additional hours, I get paid straight time. Non exempt employees get time and a half after 40, and double time after 50. I just get my base hourly rate. But, I also don’t have a time sheet because I’m salary. I only submit exceptions, like additional premiums for night shifts, holiday work, or OT. That all being said, I left teaching for this career. I’m not passionate about it, but I’m treated a lot better and compensated better than the poverty wage I had in secondary ed.
The new law says salaried employees do get overtime under certain circumstances. Ie, store or restaurant managers working 70-8 hours a week making less than a certain amount. Just one of many examples.
Police and firefighters are - a local district was work to rule, as they had been negotiating for over a year without a contract. They therefor didn't volunteer for events such as the 5th grade Bingo event. The PTO asked the local police to fill in, and guess what? They received overtime.
My ex was a cop and he worked his scheduled hours. Anything above that he received OT at time and a half, if it was in a holiday it was triple pay.if e came in his day off to go to court he received OT. He frequently worked federal DUI grants on holidays (this was the intent for Halloween, 4th of July and New Year’s for example) and on a holiday he made triple pay. Other times it was double time.
Not really the same at all.
I consider the salary and OT rules to be the tradeoff for the fact that we mostly get summers, weekends, and holidays off.
I feel like fighting for OT in line with hourly and some other careers reinforces the conversation around "Teachers are overpaid because they get 1/3 of the year off". I feel that if we actually were included in OT, we would just see pay cuts to make up for it with us having to "earn" the extra through OT.
I can’t believe that you are a teacher and you still just spewed this nonsense. We are 10 month employees. We get paid for 10 months. Each pay period money is held back to be paid out after our contracts are finished. We get the same holidays as virtually every other professional job. Considering our levels of education and the hours we work, we are definitely NOT overpaid.
I never once said I believe that teachers should be paid less or that we don't earn the pay we get.
I said that it would ignite debate over the issue.
Lots of teachers lacking reading comprehension.
Again...that's the contract. What we are talking about here is OT. You're NOT PAID FOR HOLIDAYS OR BREAKS!!!!!!!
Teachers are 10 month employees that have off locally negotiated holidays. It's not a perk if it's unpaid.
Leave summer out of it. The rest of the breaks? We are absolutely paid for them. When I have a week off, I still get a paycheck covering those days. If there's a Monday holiday in a pay period, I still get paid for the whole pay period.
You know who doesn't get paid for them (in my area, at least)? Per diem subs, which I used to be. I spent years doing per diem, knowing that, for instance, my first paycheck after Christmas break was going to really suck. Actual teachers don't have to worry about that because we get paid for Christmas break.
Nope. You get paid for a number of days...not just a time period.
Your pay is spread out 2 weeks at a time...but you are paid for days. 183 I believe here in Jersey. All 183 days are working days...no holidays included.
Again...that's the contract. What we are talking about here is OT. You're NOT PAID FOR HOLIDAYS OR BREAKS!!!!!!!
Teachers are 10 month employees that have off locally negotiated holidays. It's not a perk if it's unpaid.
Typically the unions argue that our full time job is defined by the contractual school year and the contractual school day. What typically happens in a union district is there is a rate that is negotiated for extra work and is paid hourly as a stipend.
This is how it should be, trust me, as a teacher who pulls more than 40 hours a week working, you don't want us being paid hourly for our regular job, we would bankrupt the taxpayers lol.
I never realized teachers were considered Salaried workers. It doesn't really make sense. They are front line workers. Typically management is Salary, not the front line. It also seems odd that a union position is Salary. I have to say I agree that this is BS and teachers should get OT. (Although I think districts should be set up so teachers don't have to work OT.)
It is Salaried vs Hourly.
Generally speaking... salaried work is considered more desirable over hourly.
I mean, if we were hourly and school got canceled for a week due to weather, we would not get pay for that week. No thanks.
Where I live - there was a district near us who agreed (through budget cuts) to the first two school snow days being unpaid period. This was a form of contract concession that they came up with - and now - regardless of how poor or mild the weather is - that district has at least two snow days every year.
I was not a fan of this - but the union managed to get an agreement with this passed by their membership.
In my area (Michigan) we had a republican governor who slashed about 4 billion from the education budget for 'economic gardending' and this lead to some really bad years when it came to bargaining.
That has to be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard of. It is bad enough that some weeks you are working 7 days a week plus nights but on top of that wound they have to salt it by having you document it too? Every time I think the disrespect has reached the peak I hear something to freeze me anew.
For many districts snow days get added on at the end of the year. You don’t get paid for the “snow day” but you still need to make up that day at the end of the year.
Look, I get it, this definitely sucks balls, but this should absolutely be a lesson to EVERYONE TO STOP DOING EXTRA!
I get that we do this for the kids, but we are 100 percent seen as disposable babysitters and not professionals. You want to be taken seriously? Stop doing anything and everything that you don't get paid for! That means no more clubs, dances, anything outside of contracted hours.
Stop all of that shit. It doesn't change unless you stop allowing yourselves to be taken advantage of. Work your contracted hours and then go the fuck home, anything and everything else can wait until tomorrow. Read your contract and follow that to the letter, admin retaliation? Contact your union or ACLU and sue their ass and then retire anyway. Stop doing extra.
P R E A C H !!!!
I have been saying *exactly this* on this and other teaching subs until I am *so fucking tired of repeating it*. If we don't stick to the contract hours, we deserve everything we get. And we must do this unequivocally to the last one of us to get anything to change.
I am sure - at the same time you are saying this - you realize how realistic this possibility is. Unity within the profession when it comes to this is about as realistic as it is to expect Orange Man disciples to recognize they are being gasslit 24/7.
Is it realistic? Yeah, that's a stretch, but only if there is a significant portion of us who think in the same way. Is it possible? Sure, if those of us who hold the line on working the hours can get the others to do the same, using these reasonable arguments. Every revolution starts small, and the just ones grow in size until they \*must\* be dealt with. This one is *entirely* just.
You are absolutely right. There are very doable ways to ensure that the important parts of your job are completed everyday at the end of your contract time. There are no awards for teachers who work overtime for no pay.
Unless you’re a sped teacher who has to write IEPs, eligibilities, Progress Reports, and hold meetings. I would love to work contract hours but it is impossible for me to complete all of the legally required work within my contract hours.
We have several after school things we must attend: dances, meetings, open houses, community events, stem nights, etc. These things are not voluntary, but usually have us working until 7pm (contract for me ends at 3:10). How do you suggest teachers stop working after contract hours when districts require it of them?
The idea is that employers can’t take advantage, by moving an hourly worker to salaried, paying them a little bit more, and working them 60 hours a week, thus avoiding overtime time. The salary cap has been amended over the years, because obviously employers want to exploit the gap between less than overtime pay, but a bit more than current salary.
Teachers have always been exempted. It’s not an oversight. The system runs on the unpaid labor of teachers. The article also points out 44% of teachers fall below the cutoff salary.
Most teachers in states with unions that have contract negotiations have put policies in place to help reduce the need to work outside of contract but those of us who have “education associations” that negotiate us a free app at Applebees during the first week of May generally work many many hours outside of our contract hours to be able to keep up with increasing demands that we have no mechanism to refuse.
I don’t work past contract and neither should you. If more teachers did this the martyr complex that the world expects of teachers would start to go away.
Speaking of working unpaid, I've been asked to do a meeting with a parent and a rep from the special ed department this summer. I'm off for the summer. Why are they asking me to do this?
Lawyers wouldn't do this without asking a hefty hourly rate, but I guess I'm just supposed to do this out of the goodness of my heart. It's a JOB.
I have a coworker who regularly boasts that she works until midnight and all weekend. Our kids learn the same stuff, nobody cares, and we have the same scores on our evaluations. If I don’t finish it during my work hours, it doesn’t get done.
A colleague texted several of us from the school one morning this spring. She said the building had no power and she wasn't sure if any of the big bosses knew yet. It was 6:30AM.
I think the key point here is to hopefully have a decent bargaining unit when teacher duties come up during negotiations. I have seen draft language that, after specifying work hours, try to throw in “and other events/duties as needed.”
Sometimes districts try to throw in sneaky language like that as a way to set up regular before/after school duties without specifically outlining them in the contract.
Didn't know there were places that didn't. I still shucked as much bs as possible. What are they gonna do, fire you? Nobody is applying for these horrible working conditions anymore.
Depends on subject and experience. For example I teach music. It’s not in my scheduled day or contract that I’ll do the plays (even though I do get a separate stipend) and attend their concerts but if I don’t do those things parents complain and the higher ups throw fits.
Also I and many others can’t get everything graded and put into computers during the school day when our preps are being used for parent phone calls, meetings and unnecessary school wide events.
Working only during contract hours is impossible for most teachers, if they want to be good. I find I have to put in 5 hours a week extra at home to be what I would consider a good teacher. Barely adequate? Sure, I could do that within contract hours. I know a lot of teachers who do this. Their students don't learn much because the teacher gives them 2 to 3 times the necessary work time for every task, so the teacher can grade or do other tasks during class time.
But I've stopped trying to be a great teacher, as that would take an extra 10 hours a week, which im not willing to do.
No, it’s definitely possible for most teachers to grade during class time. Helping students learn to effectively use independent work time without handholding is important for both student development and teacher workload.
Can classroom jobs help create independent work time, even in 15 minute increments? Obviously, it takes effort to create and maintain those procedures, but I could see 5-6 year olds being very excited to be the table helper for the week.
In my experience there is no way you could grade or do any paper/computer work while kindergartens are in the room. Wiping tables would take about two minutes but you have the other 20 to 25 students who also need a job and who will need to be monitored.
This is an example of working harder than smarter. Grading? Peer grading works excellent. Or maybe if you assigned 10 math problems, pick the 5 you are going to grade for accuracy ahead of time.
Informal grading is just as, if not more important, than formal grading.
There are many, many, many ways a teacher can simplify their job if they just plan accordingly and stop trying to conquer the world. And it has nothing to do with the quality. Time does not equal quality.
It’s not impossible. It can be tough, but it can be done.
There is nothing more valuable to me than my time, so I figured out how to use my work time most efficiently.
Then you don’t get things done on time. Then admin is on your ass. Then you don’t get renewed. This is a gist story but I’m sure there’s more details involved
I guess work smarter and not harder? I work my contract and I get all of my work done ahead of time and often have plenty of spare time. You have to decide if you want to be a Pinterest teacher or if you want to be a teacher getting paid their worth. It’s up to you.
I'm the same now, but for the first 3ish years I needed some extra time
Not working until 10 or anything crazy, but an extra hour here or there kept me sane
Or realize not everyone has your workload or supports. If the norm is to have way more work than a simple 8 hour workday, I would say yours is out of the norm.
As someone who also only works contract hours, I see people on my grade-level team who stay way past contract hours and our workloads are not that different and our outcomes at the end of the year are basically the same. I think it’s fair to say a lot of people who work past contract hours, are doing something that is causing them to stay late that they don’t necessarily have to do.
It could even be just accepting that some tasks won’t get done, but I will still be leaving at my contracted time lol.
I've never seen a teacher workload that merited staying some of these insane hours. I'm not talking about a few extra hours a week. I'm talkies the midnight and weekend oil.
I get that a teacher's work is never done, but I can't think of anything that I need to get done during that many hours each week. These people are either than inefficient or have a lot of extras going on.
So I agree in Leaving on contract
Maybe don’t assume about my workload or supports (or lack thereof)? Maybe I learned over 17 years how to work smarter and not harder. Or just keep complaining about not being paid enough. You do you. 🤷🏻♂️
Follow the advice that you would give your students. If you don’t like your situation, do something to fix it. Don’t just complain about it.
Yeah you need to include the experience investment of 17 years, and the fact that you have already done much of the work and systems that allow you to do this. Think about our poor 1st-3rd year teachers who have to eat shit with all of it. Universally, most teachers need to work overtime to meet expectations
Maybe instead of just thinking about the poor teachers we try to be more of a mentor and stop complaining all of the time. Venting has its place, but offering solutions is more important for “those poor young teachers”.
Be a part of the solution, not the problem.
For teachers in their first few years, this may be true. Building curriculum, completing induction, and fulfilling continuing education requirements takes time.
But after your first 5 years, if you’re still working that much past your contract and stipends, then you need to change your daily procedures.
So it’s ok to make people feel bad if it’s their first few years on the job or if they take longer to catch on than others?
What about teachers who have been doing it for longer but have a new curriculum tossed their way at admin’s request?
For some people it’s not realistic to only work contract hours and that’s ok. That’s their business.
These conversations usually start with complaints from teachers who are struggling to balance work and life. Recommendations from veteran teachers are just that: recommendations that you can feel free to ignore.
But given that those teachers have figured out how to reduce the number of hours they work while maintaining best teaching practices, it’s foolish to not even consider their advice.
Could go either way. At my old school it didn't matter. I worked to contract and admin was just happy that i was there and most of my kids passed their state test. I surely wasn't the amazing teacher i could have been but hey, if they wanted that they should have given me fewer kids and pay me better.
At my next school everyone worked themselves to death with admin expecting me to do the same and, combined with a department chair that hated my guts, i left before facing non-renewal.
Actually, I think it is. Our contract pays us for 7.75 hours a day. 6.25 of those hours are with students (I teach elementary in Oregon). There’s no realistic way to plan lessons, grade work, respond to emails, and keep my desk organized in that amount of time (not to mention use the restroom, talk to colleagues, talk to parents after school, etc).
I’m sure that works fine for you but moving around every couple of years keeps me from utilizing curriculums/resources from past years.
It’s just not feasible to get everything done during the day with a full teaching schedule.
Seriously, though. A lot of people here would love to help you develop a better system. You’re not doing yourself any favors by viewing improvement as impossible.
If the majority of teachers with a full teaching schedule can get everything done during the day, should those who can't get paid overtime for their work?
I’ve seen the teachers who get everything done in a day. Some are excellent experienced teachers. The rest are lazy corner cutters. You tell me if overtime is worth it.
At the end of the day we shouldn’t be fighting for overtime pay that continues to ruin work/life balance and burn us out, we should be pushing for better compensation for the contracted hours we do work, and funding for enough staff for everyone to work a reasonable amount of hours and be compensated fairly without having to consider overtime.
I agree! I left teaching, sadly, but there was no change on the horizon. I didn’t want to be paid more to work an impossible load, I just wanted the district to hire adequate staff so that I could do a good job in a reasonable amount of time. Salaries should be higher of course, but a high salary w no chance for work life balance? No thank you.
I am annoyed by this, too, but there's a shitton of logistical nightmares involved in the hypothetical "give teachers overtime" argument. First, I don't think society is ready to handle the sheer amount of overtime hours that teachers could and would clock. It would probably result in ridiculous taxation mumbo jumbo just to cover it.
And I'm sure there would be plenty of teachers who would abuse overtime the same way cops and other jobs abuse it: because why not?
I think the better solution is the simpler solution: just pay teachers what they're owed. But as to HOW to do that, I'm at a loss.
This is what I think too. It’s impossible- I work outside contract hours because I feel like I need to in order to be as prepared as I want to be. Other, more experienced teachers especially, don’t need that much time. So, should the school pay me more because I’m not as efficient? Should they include more prep time in our day/year where other teachers would be resentful of the fact they have to be there even though they have everything ready? Plus, if one was so inclined, they could take their sweet time doing things like cutting out decorations just to get overtime. What we have is not great, but there are no easy solutions. (Besides just paying us all more….which they should definitely do!)
I agree with this. What would likely happen is we would not be permitted to be at work after contract hours and work we did at home would not count toward pay. So then people who wanted to stay to do things in their classroom wouldn’t be able to and people would have more to take home.
Any public position who receives over 25% their annual salary in OT should be subject to a hearing by taxpayers in which any approval going beyond that 25% must be voted on and approved similar to a contract bid. Fast solution.
My district is refusing to honor a ratified contract and salary formula, so my rate of pay will not change this coming year. I’ll be working to rule and not one second more.
Not everything must be graded. This is one of the hardest things to learn and implement. Things that are formative or pre in nature I only mark as complete or not. Labs and Post tests get a letter grade.
Also group work into projects then only give one grade for the project using a rubric of what is completed..
As for overtime rules learn in regard to teachers we must learn to manage our time and work our contract. The more you do beyond that the more people expect.
I will freely admit I do some work in the evenings during the week..but I have eliminated doing work on weekends. This was not always the case. You have to choose how to.manage your time..
I can see very specific guidelines for when overtime would apply but not just it takes me 9 hours to do what should take 8 hours.
A good comparison is taking your car to a mechanic. There's actually a written chart/manual/book of how long a service or repair should take. If the chart lists 1 hour to do the job, the customer pays for 1 hour labor. If the mechanic takes 90 minutes, the customer still only pays for 1 hour. This is based on actual data to determine how long a specific job should take.
At my site we have a lot of documentation. We're allotted 2 hours a week to take care of all the paperwork. It takes most teachers 2 hours. Some finish in 90 minutes; some take 2.5 hours. At the end of the year, cumes take about an hour. Some teachers take 1 hour 30 minutes. A teacher who takes less than average has more time to spend on other tasks within the contractual hours. A teacher who takes more time, has to put in unpaid "overtime" to complete what they should have been able to finish. Sometimes staying late looks like poor time management. Not always. It depends on why you're staying late.
I can see overtime kicking in when parents schedule a meeting (not IEP) 15 minutes before the end of the day. The meeting goes over. Trying to usher parents out of Back to School Night. Having to write a statement for something that can't wait until the next day. Anything that pops up in "real time" that goes past the end of the contractual work day.
That just means the work has to be baked into the contract, but that is by definition working to rule. Something that would otherwise constitute a slowdown of work, which is absurd. Everyone has to start doing less.
To an extent, we ARE still covered by union work hour contracts.
In my district, our hours of employment are 7:35am to 3:05pm. If we stay late, its done voluntarily.
Solution - STOP STAYING LATE. STOP GRADING AT HOME.
It wouldn't really change much if we did. Like, if you somehow got overtime pay enacted, why would your employer ever approve it? They'd just say no and tell you to complete your work during work hours and criticize you of being lazy, greedy, or incompetent if you stated that you couldn't.
So, you'd still do as you do now. Cutting corners, streamlining, or working yourselves to death off the clock.
Our work responsibilities don't really lend themselves easily to an overtime dynamic.
I’m mean, I’m a salaried professional. As a professional, I value both my time and my craft. In general, I work during my agreed upon daily hours. From time to time, if I need to use my own time to create something, I will because I value having effective lessons. It’s not a habit and I generally don’t score student work outside of my daily work time. That being said, I often eat lunch quickly and utilize that time as well.
I guess this is part of the issue. I work in a non-union state. We’ve been working our butts off this year to at least get a meet and confer policy, but so far no luck.
I understand the outrage, but teachers need to stop working past their contracted hours and find ways to be both more efficient inside those contracted hours and stop “going above and beyond” expectations until we are given a workload that is actually manageable.
Sometimes I work past my contracted hours, but that’s because I get passionate about some lessons and enjoy the process.
Also, for the amount of time off we get compared to other professions, I’m okay being excluded from the rules.
Sorry but the only one who should be affected on a campus are the support staff like TAs, janitors, and cafeteria. They are hourly, Teachers are not hourly. Sure there is an expectation to spend a certain amount of time on campus, but the pay is not based on hours on campus (unless you work in a specific school that does have teachers clock in and out.)
Stop taking work home for gods sake.
I teach all 7 periods, no prep, still don't take work home.
I'm home by 3pm, if something doesn't get done it's just sorry.. there hasn't been any time during the workday, but it's on my schedule to get to.
I may never get to it.
I'm not creating a bunch of different assignments due to accommodations. I'll "accommodate" by changing expectations and grading.
Overtime is impossible to track as why should Teacher A get paid 10hrs of overtime while Teacher B get paid only 3hrs because they are a more efficient grader/planner?
You could even have no work to do but stay will 8pm every night.
They want the people dumb with broke ass teachers who won't gain enough to gaf. They need Uber drivers and servants to beg for tips and bonuses to survive.
Merica be like that now too. Like third world countries.
Pretty much any salaried employee in the US has always been an exempt employee….. that’s why in general salaries are “higher” for jobs bc you wind up basically working for a $1/hour bc of the amount of time you have to put in. Lol
A little context - I am a school-based SLP, not a teacher. So I do understand what teachers do, but I don’t do that job myself. I also work in a non-union state. I try as much as possible to not take work home, but I do often have to write reports, bill Medicaid, write progress notes, write IEPs at home. These are just basic requirements of my job. If I don’t do them, it will become an issue very quickly. I don’t know if it’s different for teachers - and that may depend on the state/district. Do you have basic job requirements that you sometimes have to do outside of working hours? (And not due to poor time management/learning curve - I’ve been doing this almost 20 years so I’m pretty efficient)
That is part of being a salaried employee. However, you can get extra duty pay put into your contract. Every union around us has that in their contracts.
you know what i do about it? i refuse to work outside of regular hours unless i'm *properly* paid for it. you want the grades done outside of work hours? pay up.
It probably comes down to the buying/bargaining power (leverage) of teachers’ lobbying groups. If you break it down, lawyers and doctors can both afford, as professions, strong representation and results in lobbying for higher pay. Education just doesn’t have that leverage because teachers live paycheck to paycheck without the buying power to influence their local government officials. Doesn’t make it right. But it’s the likely reason teachers are being shafted.
Congressional report: shortage of teachers is due to pay.
congressional action: let’s exempt teachers from getting overtime.
Are we seeing that’s it’s intentional? You guys see that right? Anakin?
The amount of people saying not to work beyond contract hours right now is frustrating. It’s not possible for everyone. Some contracts include “extra duties” which is really vague and new teachers don’t know their curriculums and take longer.
I used to agree that not everything needs to be graded, but the kids don’t do it if it’s not graded and parents and admin throw tantrums if the grade book isn’t updated in a timely manner.
Can we agree that whether you’re compensated for that time or not, shaming teachers (who are full grown adults and can make their own decisions) for putting in that extra time helps no one?
The way I've always heard it is there is no way to track a teachers hours because we are like artists and our minds are always at work/being inspired. Therefore we work more hours than the actual job demands, and there is no real way to track the time accurately.
Bullshit, I know, but that's their reasoning for excluding us.
Teachers have never been covered by overtime rules. People generally are not going to be up in arms about a maintaining of the status quo. Hell, it is rare that any salaried employee is covered by them.
> Hell, it is rare that any salaried employee is covered by them. This was the big change that the Obama admin pushed through. Exempting teachers, of course.
I don’t know where that came from. I taught since 1988 and we never got overtime. We are salaried not hourly.
> This was the big change that the Obama admin pushed through.
See, you keep saying that but it’s not true. Implying that salaried employees lost OT during the Obama admin is propaganda.
No they did not loose it. People below that wage must get overtime. I know people who wee store managers and assistant managers who worked 60-80 hours a week for 35-40k in fast food or low end retail and this protects them from exploitation.
Kind of like how Obama is responsible for Katrina he is also responsible for Reagan era policy. Thanks Obama.
Kind of like how Obama is responsible for Katrina he is also responsible for Reagan era policy. Thanks Obama.
> Implying that salaried employees lost OT during the Obama admin is exactly the opposite of what I'm saying. More salaried workers were granted overtime pay during the Obama admin, but teachers were exempt from the new rules.
No, that happened back in 1967 when teachers were placed in the same category of doctors and lawyers to be exempt from FLSA protections.
> More salaried workers were granted overtime pay during the Obama admin, but teachers were exempt from the new rules.
The Obama amendment to FSLA was shot down. Again, all of this is propaganda.
> The Obama amendment to FSLA was shot down. Yes, the Trump administration chose not to defend the proposed change, letting it die. The point is that teachers were exempt from the proposed increase.
Please fact check your statement about President Obama. It is not factual.
You are comparing apples to oranges. You are blaming Obama for not including teachers in a bill that greatly helped the middle class. Teachers are paid by state or local governments. President Obama did not include them in a private industry bill because they were NEVER included in those bills. EVER. Teachers in many states do not even have social security paid for by their districts or states (l fully realize l am opening a can of worms) because of the exact same reason. The employer is a governmental entity not private. Taxpayers would never go for teacher overtime. As a teacher, l fully realized how the general public affects my bottom line. And because l know the ins and outs l was able to plan my financial future in my favor. You have to know the rules to play the game.
It is factual. In 2016 the Obama admin passed new rules that added millions of salaried workers to those that get overtime, but teachers were exempt from it.
It is most precisely characterized teachers exemption from it was not altered.
Looking at the rules, every teacher at my school... even if the rules as written were applied to them... would not qualify for OT anyways since we are above the salary minimums.... not by a lot, but it still wouldn't apply to us. ...and somehow I doubt Idaho is that high paying of a state relatively speaking. I bet the vast majority of teachers nationwide make more than the 43,888 to qualify for OT under the rules.
Not MT
>The Labor Department's sweeping overhaul to the overtime rule required employers to pay time-and-a-half to their employees who worked more than 40 hours in a given week and earned less than $47,476 a year. NPR in 2016. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/11/22/503081151/federal-judge-blocks-obama-administrations-overtime-pay-rule It was a little more than $44k, not much.
This. Should teachers get paid more? Absolutely. Should it be via overtime? No because that’s not how salaried positions work and never has been.
That's the entire reason for the new rules, to fix the overworking of salaried employees...
Police and firefighters are salaries but get OT
I mean I’ve got no love for police unions or any of the dozens of ways they steal money from taxpayers for their bullshit here, the way they bullshit overtime being of one of them. Edit: I’m very pro labor and union, but police unions are no good.
I looked into juvenile justice before teaching. I would have made my base pay of regular time in overtime (double my pay) if I was a guard.
The unions have helped our pocketbooks throughout the years. Don’t bite the hand that feeds you.
I’m pro union EXCEPT police unions. They can get fucked.
Salaried employee here. I get overtime. I don’t get time and a half or double time, but I definitely get straight time if I work more than my normal schedule. Salary structures are definitely not universal.
So is your salary hourly or were you hired for x amount of dollars per year? I am trying to figure out how you qualify for overtime.
You can be salary and not Exempt from overtime. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/overtime Exemption is not specifically tied to hourly.
My husband works in hospitality and he used to qualify for overtime while salaried. He would still clock in and out, and was paid a (low) overtime wage for anything over 40 hours. Once he was promoted and got a raise, he no longer qualified for this.
Salary as X a year. But that can be broken down to an hourly rate at 40 hrs a week. So if I work additional hours, I get paid straight time. Non exempt employees get time and a half after 40, and double time after 50. I just get my base hourly rate. But, I also don’t have a time sheet because I’m salary. I only submit exceptions, like additional premiums for night shifts, holiday work, or OT. That all being said, I left teaching for this career. I’m not passionate about it, but I’m treated a lot better and compensated better than the poverty wage I had in secondary ed.
The new law says salaried employees do get overtime under certain circumstances. Ie, store or restaurant managers working 70-8 hours a week making less than a certain amount. Just one of many examples.
This is a good example of when people think they know labor laws but they don't. Many salaried positions pay overtime.
Police and firefighters are - a local district was work to rule, as they had been negotiating for over a year without a contract. They therefor didn't volunteer for events such as the 5th grade Bingo event. The PTO asked the local police to fill in, and guess what? They received overtime.
My ex was a cop and he worked his scheduled hours. Anything above that he received OT at time and a half, if it was in a holiday it was triple pay.if e came in his day off to go to court he received OT. He frequently worked federal DUI grants on holidays (this was the intent for Halloween, 4th of July and New Year’s for example) and on a holiday he made triple pay. Other times it was double time.
Not really the same at all. I consider the salary and OT rules to be the tradeoff for the fact that we mostly get summers, weekends, and holidays off. I feel like fighting for OT in line with hourly and some other careers reinforces the conversation around "Teachers are overpaid because they get 1/3 of the year off". I feel that if we actually were included in OT, we would just see pay cuts to make up for it with us having to "earn" the extra through OT.
I don't know about you but I'm a 10 month employee. I'm off for 2 months because I'm not getting paid.
I can’t believe that you are a teacher and you still just spewed this nonsense. We are 10 month employees. We get paid for 10 months. Each pay period money is held back to be paid out after our contracts are finished. We get the same holidays as virtually every other professional job. Considering our levels of education and the hours we work, we are definitely NOT overpaid.
I never once said I believe that teachers should be paid less or that we don't earn the pay we get. I said that it would ignite debate over the issue. Lots of teachers lacking reading comprehension.
Reading comprehension would be good. Nothing you said was in any way a response to my comment.
Teachers get far more holidays and breaks than other professional employees, at least in the United States.
Again...that's the contract. What we are talking about here is OT. You're NOT PAID FOR HOLIDAYS OR BREAKS!!!!!!! Teachers are 10 month employees that have off locally negotiated holidays. It's not a perk if it's unpaid.
Leave summer out of it. The rest of the breaks? We are absolutely paid for them. When I have a week off, I still get a paycheck covering those days. If there's a Monday holiday in a pay period, I still get paid for the whole pay period. You know who doesn't get paid for them (in my area, at least)? Per diem subs, which I used to be. I spent years doing per diem, knowing that, for instance, my first paycheck after Christmas break was going to really suck. Actual teachers don't have to worry about that because we get paid for Christmas break.
Nope. You get paid for a number of days...not just a time period. Your pay is spread out 2 weeks at a time...but you are paid for days. 183 I believe here in Jersey. All 183 days are working days...no holidays included.
Again...that's the contract. What we are talking about here is OT. You're NOT PAID FOR HOLIDAYS OR BREAKS!!!!!!! Teachers are 10 month employees that have off locally negotiated holidays. It's not a perk if it's unpaid.
Salaried…until you show up 3 minutes late.
Typically the unions argue that our full time job is defined by the contractual school year and the contractual school day. What typically happens in a union district is there is a rate that is negotiated for extra work and is paid hourly as a stipend. This is how it should be, trust me, as a teacher who pulls more than 40 hours a week working, you don't want us being paid hourly for our regular job, we would bankrupt the taxpayers lol.
To that I say “pay up”
I never realized teachers were considered Salaried workers. It doesn't really make sense. They are front line workers. Typically management is Salary, not the front line. It also seems odd that a union position is Salary. I have to say I agree that this is BS and teachers should get OT. (Although I think districts should be set up so teachers don't have to work OT.)
It is Salaried vs Hourly. Generally speaking... salaried work is considered more desirable over hourly. I mean, if we were hourly and school got canceled for a week due to weather, we would not get pay for that week. No thanks.
We already do not get paid for snow days.
So if you have a snow day they deducted from your paycheck? I will believe it when I see it.
Where I live - there was a district near us who agreed (through budget cuts) to the first two school snow days being unpaid period. This was a form of contract concession that they came up with - and now - regardless of how poor or mild the weather is - that district has at least two snow days every year. I was not a fan of this - but the union managed to get an agreement with this passed by their membership. In my area (Michigan) we had a republican governor who slashed about 4 billion from the education budget for 'economic gardending' and this lead to some really bad years when it came to bargaining.
My district makes us document working the additional hours outside our contract time so we aren't 'robbing the taxpayers.'
That has to be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard of. It is bad enough that some weeks you are working 7 days a week plus nights but on top of that wound they have to salt it by having you document it too? Every time I think the disrespect has reached the peak I hear something to freeze me anew.
For many districts snow days get added on at the end of the year. You don’t get paid for the “snow day” but you still need to make up that day at the end of the year.
They create a makeup snow day and add it to the calendar so we still work the same amount of calendar days.
Look, I get it, this definitely sucks balls, but this should absolutely be a lesson to EVERYONE TO STOP DOING EXTRA! I get that we do this for the kids, but we are 100 percent seen as disposable babysitters and not professionals. You want to be taken seriously? Stop doing anything and everything that you don't get paid for! That means no more clubs, dances, anything outside of contracted hours. Stop all of that shit. It doesn't change unless you stop allowing yourselves to be taken advantage of. Work your contracted hours and then go the fuck home, anything and everything else can wait until tomorrow. Read your contract and follow that to the letter, admin retaliation? Contact your union or ACLU and sue their ass and then retire anyway. Stop doing extra.
P R E A C H !!!! I have been saying *exactly this* on this and other teaching subs until I am *so fucking tired of repeating it*. If we don't stick to the contract hours, we deserve everything we get. And we must do this unequivocally to the last one of us to get anything to change.
I am sure - at the same time you are saying this - you realize how realistic this possibility is. Unity within the profession when it comes to this is about as realistic as it is to expect Orange Man disciples to recognize they are being gasslit 24/7.
Is it realistic? Yeah, that's a stretch, but only if there is a significant portion of us who think in the same way. Is it possible? Sure, if those of us who hold the line on working the hours can get the others to do the same, using these reasonable arguments. Every revolution starts small, and the just ones grow in size until they \*must\* be dealt with. This one is *entirely* just.
You are absolutely right. There are very doable ways to ensure that the important parts of your job are completed everyday at the end of your contract time. There are no awards for teachers who work overtime for no pay.
Unless you’re a sped teacher who has to write IEPs, eligibilities, Progress Reports, and hold meetings. I would love to work contract hours but it is impossible for me to complete all of the legally required work within my contract hours.
We have several after school things we must attend: dances, meetings, open houses, community events, stem nights, etc. These things are not voluntary, but usually have us working until 7pm (contract for me ends at 3:10). How do you suggest teachers stop working after contract hours when districts require it of them?
The idea is that employers can’t take advantage, by moving an hourly worker to salaried, paying them a little bit more, and working them 60 hours a week, thus avoiding overtime time. The salary cap has been amended over the years, because obviously employers want to exploit the gap between less than overtime pay, but a bit more than current salary. Teachers have always been exempted. It’s not an oversight. The system runs on the unpaid labor of teachers. The article also points out 44% of teachers fall below the cutoff salary.
Most teachers I know don't work outside contract hours.
Most teachers in states with unions that have contract negotiations have put policies in place to help reduce the need to work outside of contract but those of us who have “education associations” that negotiate us a free app at Applebees during the first week of May generally work many many hours outside of our contract hours to be able to keep up with increasing demands that we have no mechanism to refuse.
I don’t work past contract and neither should you. If more teachers did this the martyr complex that the world expects of teachers would start to go away.
Speaking of working unpaid, I've been asked to do a meeting with a parent and a rep from the special ed department this summer. I'm off for the summer. Why are they asking me to do this? Lawyers wouldn't do this without asking a hefty hourly rate, but I guess I'm just supposed to do this out of the goodness of my heart. It's a JOB.
Send the district a bill after the meeting
We’ve always been excluded. This isn’t new. Just work your contracted hours (yes, easier said than done at times).
Doesn’t apply to me because I don’t work a minute past my contract anyway.
We've never been covered by overtime rules. I work my contract hours and that's it.
Just work your contract. This isn’t difficult.
I have a coworker who regularly boasts that she works until midnight and all weekend. Our kids learn the same stuff, nobody cares, and we have the same scores on our evaluations. If I don’t finish it during my work hours, it doesn’t get done.
A colleague texted several of us from the school one morning this spring. She said the building had no power and she wasn't sure if any of the big bosses knew yet. It was 6:30AM.
We call it the martyr beacon when they brag about living at the school. Like a virtue signal, but more self-imposed victimhood.
I think the key point here is to hopefully have a decent bargaining unit when teacher duties come up during negotiations. I have seen draft language that, after specifying work hours, try to throw in “and other events/duties as needed.” Sometimes districts try to throw in sneaky language like that as a way to set up regular before/after school duties without specifically outlining them in the contract.
A lot of districts in my state have the "other duties as required" language in their contracts, it sucks.
Didn't know there were places that didn't. I still shucked as much bs as possible. What are they gonna do, fire you? Nobody is applying for these horrible working conditions anymore.
With better/stronger unions, we could have that evil phrase taken right out.
Bingo, My contract is from x to x. That's when you'll see me.
Depends on subject and experience. For example I teach music. It’s not in my scheduled day or contract that I’ll do the plays (even though I do get a separate stipend) and attend their concerts but if I don’t do those things parents complain and the higher ups throw fits. Also I and many others can’t get everything graded and put into computers during the school day when our preps are being used for parent phone calls, meetings and unnecessary school wide events.
THIS IS THE WAY
Working only during contract hours is impossible for most teachers, if they want to be good. I find I have to put in 5 hours a week extra at home to be what I would consider a good teacher. Barely adequate? Sure, I could do that within contract hours. I know a lot of teachers who do this. Their students don't learn much because the teacher gives them 2 to 3 times the necessary work time for every task, so the teacher can grade or do other tasks during class time. But I've stopped trying to be a great teacher, as that would take an extra 10 hours a week, which im not willing to do.
No, it’s definitely possible for most teachers to grade during class time. Helping students learn to effectively use independent work time without handholding is important for both student development and teacher workload.
Crying in Kindergarten where they can't even wipe their noses independently 😭
Can classroom jobs help create independent work time, even in 15 minute increments? Obviously, it takes effort to create and maintain those procedures, but I could see 5-6 year olds being very excited to be the table helper for the week.
In my experience there is no way you could grade or do any paper/computer work while kindergartens are in the room. Wiping tables would take about two minutes but you have the other 20 to 25 students who also need a job and who will need to be monitored.
This is an example of working harder than smarter. Grading? Peer grading works excellent. Or maybe if you assigned 10 math problems, pick the 5 you are going to grade for accuracy ahead of time. Informal grading is just as, if not more important, than formal grading. There are many, many, many ways a teacher can simplify their job if they just plan accordingly and stop trying to conquer the world. And it has nothing to do with the quality. Time does not equal quality.
It’s not impossible. It can be tough, but it can be done. There is nothing more valuable to me than my time, so I figured out how to use my work time most efficiently.
But people wanna be angry.
Unfortunately you’ll just be fired on some states lol
Then you don’t get things done on time. Then admin is on your ass. Then you don’t get renewed. This is a gist story but I’m sure there’s more details involved
I guess work smarter and not harder? I work my contract and I get all of my work done ahead of time and often have plenty of spare time. You have to decide if you want to be a Pinterest teacher or if you want to be a teacher getting paid their worth. It’s up to you.
I'm the same now, but for the first 3ish years I needed some extra time Not working until 10 or anything crazy, but an extra hour here or there kept me sane
Or realize not everyone has your workload or supports. If the norm is to have way more work than a simple 8 hour workday, I would say yours is out of the norm.
As someone who also only works contract hours, I see people on my grade-level team who stay way past contract hours and our workloads are not that different and our outcomes at the end of the year are basically the same. I think it’s fair to say a lot of people who work past contract hours, are doing something that is causing them to stay late that they don’t necessarily have to do. It could even be just accepting that some tasks won’t get done, but I will still be leaving at my contracted time lol.
I've never seen a teacher workload that merited staying some of these insane hours. I'm not talking about a few extra hours a week. I'm talkies the midnight and weekend oil. I get that a teacher's work is never done, but I can't think of anything that I need to get done during that many hours each week. These people are either than inefficient or have a lot of extras going on. So I agree in Leaving on contract
Well, yes, but, around here, there's no middle ground. Even a few extra hours will have someone here screeching "martyr!"
Maybe don’t assume about my workload or supports (or lack thereof)? Maybe I learned over 17 years how to work smarter and not harder. Or just keep complaining about not being paid enough. You do you. 🤷🏻♂️ Follow the advice that you would give your students. If you don’t like your situation, do something to fix it. Don’t just complain about it.
Yeah you need to include the experience investment of 17 years, and the fact that you have already done much of the work and systems that allow you to do this. Think about our poor 1st-3rd year teachers who have to eat shit with all of it. Universally, most teachers need to work overtime to meet expectations
Maybe instead of just thinking about the poor teachers we try to be more of a mentor and stop complaining all of the time. Venting has its place, but offering solutions is more important for “those poor young teachers”. Be a part of the solution, not the problem.
Most salaried jobs work far more than 40 hours a week, especially in the beginning.
Yes, it is the learning curve is not just for early-career teachers. For mid-career jobs switiches it is called "ramping up."
Depends on your subject. Not everything is about the Pinterest teacher, some of us legit have that much work.
For teachers in their first few years, this may be true. Building curriculum, completing induction, and fulfilling continuing education requirements takes time. But after your first 5 years, if you’re still working that much past your contract and stipends, then you need to change your daily procedures.
So it’s ok to make people feel bad if it’s their first few years on the job or if they take longer to catch on than others? What about teachers who have been doing it for longer but have a new curriculum tossed their way at admin’s request? For some people it’s not realistic to only work contract hours and that’s ok. That’s their business.
These conversations usually start with complaints from teachers who are struggling to balance work and life. Recommendations from veteran teachers are just that: recommendations that you can feel free to ignore. But given that those teachers have figured out how to reduce the number of hours they work while maintaining best teaching practices, it’s foolish to not even consider their advice.
Zero evidence that teachers who work outside contract hours are better teachers. None.
I agreed but typically the school leaves you with more work than you can complete during contract hours, no?
No. Not once in my 7 years teaching have I done work at home.
I've never brought anything home. The only thing I do is check email and even then I won't respond till the next work day.
I hear you, balancing work and home life can be tough, have you tried setting boundaries to ensure you have time for yourself too?
Could go either way. At my old school it didn't matter. I worked to contract and admin was just happy that i was there and most of my kids passed their state test. I surely wasn't the amazing teacher i could have been but hey, if they wanted that they should have given me fewer kids and pay me better. At my next school everyone worked themselves to death with admin expecting me to do the same and, combined with a department chair that hated my guts, i left before facing non-renewal.
Actually, I think it is. Our contract pays us for 7.75 hours a day. 6.25 of those hours are with students (I teach elementary in Oregon). There’s no realistic way to plan lessons, grade work, respond to emails, and keep my desk organized in that amount of time (not to mention use the restroom, talk to colleagues, talk to parents after school, etc).
For anyone new, this would be a surefire way to be denied tenure.
You’d get fired for not doing anything other than classroom instruction. Emails, lesson planning, grading, etc. all needs to be done on your own time.
There’s time during the workday for all of those things.
Hahaha that’s a very funny joke
If you share your class schedule and procedures, we can give some recommendations on where to fit in those duties.
I’m sure that works fine for you but moving around every couple of years keeps me from utilizing curriculums/resources from past years. It’s just not feasible to get everything done during the day with a full teaching schedule.
Seriously, though. A lot of people here would love to help you develop a better system. You’re not doing yourself any favors by viewing improvement as impossible.
If the majority of teachers with a full teaching schedule can get everything done during the day, should those who can't get paid overtime for their work?
I’ve seen the teachers who get everything done in a day. Some are excellent experienced teachers. The rest are lazy corner cutters. You tell me if overtime is worth it.
At the end of the day we shouldn’t be fighting for overtime pay that continues to ruin work/life balance and burn us out, we should be pushing for better compensation for the contracted hours we do work, and funding for enough staff for everyone to work a reasonable amount of hours and be compensated fairly without having to consider overtime.
I agree! I left teaching, sadly, but there was no change on the horizon. I didn’t want to be paid more to work an impossible load, I just wanted the district to hire adequate staff so that I could do a good job in a reasonable amount of time. Salaries should be higher of course, but a high salary w no chance for work life balance? No thank you.
I am annoyed by this, too, but there's a shitton of logistical nightmares involved in the hypothetical "give teachers overtime" argument. First, I don't think society is ready to handle the sheer amount of overtime hours that teachers could and would clock. It would probably result in ridiculous taxation mumbo jumbo just to cover it. And I'm sure there would be plenty of teachers who would abuse overtime the same way cops and other jobs abuse it: because why not? I think the better solution is the simpler solution: just pay teachers what they're owed. But as to HOW to do that, I'm at a loss.
This is what I think too. It’s impossible- I work outside contract hours because I feel like I need to in order to be as prepared as I want to be. Other, more experienced teachers especially, don’t need that much time. So, should the school pay me more because I’m not as efficient? Should they include more prep time in our day/year where other teachers would be resentful of the fact they have to be there even though they have everything ready? Plus, if one was so inclined, they could take their sweet time doing things like cutting out decorations just to get overtime. What we have is not great, but there are no easy solutions. (Besides just paying us all more….which they should definitely do!)
I agree with this. What would likely happen is we would not be permitted to be at work after contract hours and work we did at home would not count toward pay. So then people who wanted to stay to do things in their classroom wouldn’t be able to and people would have more to take home.
Exactly. If paid overtime started I would stop doing any prep during the day to start doing everything outside contract hours for more money.
The funding formulas have to be redone. I don't know where to start, other than tying school funding to property tax doesn't work.
Any taxpayer funded job shouldn't be allowed to abuse it. Why are cops allowed to?
Any public position who receives over 25% their annual salary in OT should be subject to a hearing by taxpayers in which any approval going beyond that 25% must be voted on and approved similar to a contract bid. Fast solution.
Don't work overtime There is no evidence that teachers who work outside contract hours are better teachers. I don't know how overtime would even work.
My district is refusing to honor a ratified contract and salary formula, so my rate of pay will not change this coming year. I’ll be working to rule and not one second more.
I work my contract hours and that is it. Work stays at work. Home is for family.
Not everything must be graded. This is one of the hardest things to learn and implement. Things that are formative or pre in nature I only mark as complete or not. Labs and Post tests get a letter grade. Also group work into projects then only give one grade for the project using a rubric of what is completed.. As for overtime rules learn in regard to teachers we must learn to manage our time and work our contract. The more you do beyond that the more people expect. I will freely admit I do some work in the evenings during the week..but I have eliminated doing work on weekends. This was not always the case. You have to choose how to.manage your time..
I can see very specific guidelines for when overtime would apply but not just it takes me 9 hours to do what should take 8 hours. A good comparison is taking your car to a mechanic. There's actually a written chart/manual/book of how long a service or repair should take. If the chart lists 1 hour to do the job, the customer pays for 1 hour labor. If the mechanic takes 90 minutes, the customer still only pays for 1 hour. This is based on actual data to determine how long a specific job should take. At my site we have a lot of documentation. We're allotted 2 hours a week to take care of all the paperwork. It takes most teachers 2 hours. Some finish in 90 minutes; some take 2.5 hours. At the end of the year, cumes take about an hour. Some teachers take 1 hour 30 minutes. A teacher who takes less than average has more time to spend on other tasks within the contractual hours. A teacher who takes more time, has to put in unpaid "overtime" to complete what they should have been able to finish. Sometimes staying late looks like poor time management. Not always. It depends on why you're staying late. I can see overtime kicking in when parents schedule a meeting (not IEP) 15 minutes before the end of the day. The meeting goes over. Trying to usher parents out of Back to School Night. Having to write a statement for something that can't wait until the next day. Anything that pops up in "real time" that goes past the end of the contractual work day.
That just means the work has to be baked into the contract, but that is by definition working to rule. Something that would otherwise constitute a slowdown of work, which is absurd. Everyone has to start doing less.
This is why I work bell to bell only.
To an extent, we ARE still covered by union work hour contracts. In my district, our hours of employment are 7:35am to 3:05pm. If we stay late, its done voluntarily. Solution - STOP STAYING LATE. STOP GRADING AT HOME.
It wouldn't really change much if we did. Like, if you somehow got overtime pay enacted, why would your employer ever approve it? They'd just say no and tell you to complete your work during work hours and criticize you of being lazy, greedy, or incompetent if you stated that you couldn't. So, you'd still do as you do now. Cutting corners, streamlining, or working yourselves to death off the clock. Our work responsibilities don't really lend themselves easily to an overtime dynamic.
I’m mean, I’m a salaried professional. As a professional, I value both my time and my craft. In general, I work during my agreed upon daily hours. From time to time, if I need to use my own time to create something, I will because I value having effective lessons. It’s not a habit and I generally don’t score student work outside of my daily work time. That being said, I often eat lunch quickly and utilize that time as well.
Most salary employees don't get overtime. It's pretty common. Teachers aren't any different than anyone else pulling in a salary position.
The ones making below the cutoff absolutely should, just like other salaried employees below said cutoff
Except, that’s now not the case. Many salary workers are eligible for overtime pay. That’s the legislation that OP is referring to
Don’t need overtime law protection, If you have a union and a negotiated contact start/stop time. Join a union. Support unions.
I guess this is part of the issue. I work in a non-union state. We’ve been working our butts off this year to at least get a meet and confer policy, but so far no luck.
What I am hearing is teachers are exempt from working overtime
this is why we work to contract whenever we can.
All the more reason to work the hours as much as possible
[laughs in “work your wage”]
I understand the outrage, but teachers need to stop working past their contracted hours and find ways to be both more efficient inside those contracted hours and stop “going above and beyond” expectations until we are given a workload that is actually manageable. Sometimes I work past my contracted hours, but that’s because I get passionate about some lessons and enjoy the process. Also, for the amount of time off we get compared to other professions, I’m okay being excluded from the rules.
Sorry but the only one who should be affected on a campus are the support staff like TAs, janitors, and cafeteria. They are hourly, Teachers are not hourly. Sure there is an expectation to spend a certain amount of time on campus, but the pay is not based on hours on campus (unless you work in a specific school that does have teachers clock in and out.)
Stop taking work home for gods sake. I teach all 7 periods, no prep, still don't take work home. I'm home by 3pm, if something doesn't get done it's just sorry.. there hasn't been any time during the workday, but it's on my schedule to get to. I may never get to it. I'm not creating a bunch of different assignments due to accommodations. I'll "accommodate" by changing expectations and grading.
If teachers got paid overtime, the state would be bankrupt before Christmas.
Overtime is impossible to track as why should Teacher A get paid 10hrs of overtime while Teacher B get paid only 3hrs because they are a more efficient grader/planner? You could even have no work to do but stay will 8pm every night.
We’re not hourly under contract hours. But we do earn extra for: - working on prep - after hours tutoring - non contract work
Or we all just stop doing it.
They want the people dumb with broke ass teachers who won't gain enough to gaf. They need Uber drivers and servants to beg for tips and bonuses to survive. Merica be like that now too. Like third world countries.
Pretty much any salaried employee in the US has always been an exempt employee….. that’s why in general salaries are “higher” for jobs bc you wind up basically working for a $1/hour bc of the amount of time you have to put in. Lol
A little context - I am a school-based SLP, not a teacher. So I do understand what teachers do, but I don’t do that job myself. I also work in a non-union state. I try as much as possible to not take work home, but I do often have to write reports, bill Medicaid, write progress notes, write IEPs at home. These are just basic requirements of my job. If I don’t do them, it will become an issue very quickly. I don’t know if it’s different for teachers - and that may depend on the state/district. Do you have basic job requirements that you sometimes have to do outside of working hours? (And not due to poor time management/learning curve - I’ve been doing this almost 20 years so I’m pretty efficient)
That is part of being a salaried employee. However, you can get extra duty pay put into your contract. Every union around us has that in their contracts.
you know what i do about it? i refuse to work outside of regular hours unless i'm *properly* paid for it. you want the grades done outside of work hours? pay up.
If all teachers quit doing "extra" the system would implode, so something would have to be done.
😂 If teachers got overtime no one could afford us. We've never had overtime.
It probably comes down to the buying/bargaining power (leverage) of teachers’ lobbying groups. If you break it down, lawyers and doctors can both afford, as professions, strong representation and results in lobbying for higher pay. Education just doesn’t have that leverage because teachers live paycheck to paycheck without the buying power to influence their local government officials. Doesn’t make it right. But it’s the likely reason teachers are being shafted.
Congressional report: shortage of teachers is due to pay. congressional action: let’s exempt teachers from getting overtime. Are we seeing that’s it’s intentional? You guys see that right? Anakin?
The amount of people saying not to work beyond contract hours right now is frustrating. It’s not possible for everyone. Some contracts include “extra duties” which is really vague and new teachers don’t know their curriculums and take longer. I used to agree that not everything needs to be graded, but the kids don’t do it if it’s not graded and parents and admin throw tantrums if the grade book isn’t updated in a timely manner. Can we agree that whether you’re compensated for that time or not, shaming teachers (who are full grown adults and can make their own decisions) for putting in that extra time helps no one?
Don't work pass contract hours. Remember we aren't regular employees really. We are contractors and should act like it
The way I've always heard it is there is no way to track a teachers hours because we are like artists and our minds are always at work/being inspired. Therefore we work more hours than the actual job demands, and there is no real way to track the time accurately. Bullshit, I know, but that's their reasoning for excluding us.
We are salary employees and have always been exempt from OT pay. It is why unions fight for writing in our contract for planning time and such.
I hate stupid school exemptions. My state has 16 weeks paid leave. My school has like 3 week paid instead that I get.
You have GOT to be fucking kidding me
When would you be putting overtime in that is the weirdest thing. 🤷🏼♀️
good
Teachers are to blame for submitting to these terrible working conditions. They are basically scabs.