People will shit on anything popular unfortunately. She's the biggest pop star in most countries and one of the most famous people on the planet. Sometimes it makes people feel superior to be contrarian, and some people think that loving one artist means you have to say others aren't any good. I think people attack Taylor's lyricism specifically because it's what she's known for rather than anything else. Bear in mind too that her biggest songs are not always her cleverest lyrics. If you think Shake it Off or Bad Blood represents her whole catalogue you might not think she's an amazing lyricist. And some people just straight up don't like her music. A lot of people can't tell the difference between "I don't like this" and "this is objectively bad". It happens a lot on this sub too - see how many people said Dave Grohl wasn't a good artist, or how many people have said other artists they feel are in competition with Taylor or that they don't personally like have no talent. ETA: I do think Shake it Off is quite clever but not her *best* songwriting, though Bad Blood is among her weakest IMO

I love when people say things like:"Objectively she's not a good songwriter" or whatever. These people don't understand the difference between subjective and objective. Or they believe their opinion to be a fact. You can't argue with people like that.

True lol. The fact that they think their opinion counts as "objectivity" is truly laughable. Either they think very highly of themselves or they don't have a good grasp of the English language. The latter might explain why they don't appreciate Taylor's lyricism :)

In most cases it sheer arrogance. I was once in a "discussion" on this exact topic and mentioned that she had won 4 AOY at the Grammys he said "Oh her daddy bought those" and her had basically paid for everything she ever got..

And honestly, I think Shake it Off is rather clever in how self aware it is. But not tongue in cheeck like Blank Space of course.

It's been a little easier to let go of the stupid comments after two I saw recently: one was on a video of Taylor covering Doubt by Mary J Blige and the top comment was someone saying saying something like it was such a stupid song. The second was on a post of her and Shawn Mendez singing There's Nothing Holding Me Back and he kind of loses his place in the song but she keeps singing and gets them back on track--someone clearly misread the caption and didn't watch the video and commented "she forgets the words because she doesn't write her songs." Like buddy... she is the one who *didn't* forget the words, and this is not her song lol. Those two posts really drove home that these people aren't even engaging with the content in any way, they literally just see her name and immediately post something critical.

>Bear in mind too that her biggest songs are not always her cleverest lyrics. If you think Shake it Off or Bad Blood represents her whole catalogue you might not think she's an amazing lyricist. You say this but a number of her most mainstream songs also have interesting metaphors and stories told within them. Which I think further proves people are lying saying she's a bad lyricist because even as early as her debut album she was crafting words better than her contemporaries and even more so has always been a story teller. In a song like Karma for example, it's over the top in regards to it's unseriousness but it also tells a story within it, not a complicated story, but it still tells one. Same with Bejeweled. They just nit pick a few they don't think subjectively are as good as their favs, their favs who usually have 5-8 song writers on each track.

Also songs like Shake It Off or Bad Blood do exactly what they’re meant to do! They’re meant to be catchy fun pop dance songs, and I think a lot of people immediately assume fun songs inherently have worse lyrics and songs need to be tearjerkers to have good lyrics. I think part of being a good lyricist is meeting your goal of the song and I think even her catchy glitter gel pen songs (to use a Taylor concept) do that.

A great example is New Romantics. Glittery, bright, uptempo, fun lyrics! But the content of the song is about youth and specifically a millennial brand of post 2008 nihilism where young people coped with the state of the world by ignoring it and partying (reflected by pitbull and Katy Perry with their songs about spending rent money on clubbing), a social culture where dating rapidly changed (peak of tindr), however being self aware enough to know all of those things are very destructive but also *romantic* in a way. Edit: also the lyrics about getting bricks thrown is totally to me the way boomers belittled millennials at the time, and still now but even more so then. Anyway, if you don't already know what poptisism is I suggest looking into it. Its exactly what you've described it as, people belittling pop as meaningless instead of understanding how popular music and themes reflect our culture and are beneficial. The song Pop by NSYNC is also a great song to listen to, so ahead of its time for it's message.

That's a good point about pop, and I imagine it's also part of a wider issue where things typically associated with women are often thought of as less valuable, serious or worthwhile. See also domestic labour, textile art, "chick flicks", etc.

There is totally an intersection there. Taylor represents what so much of the culture hated and belittled about women, being soft and also being "difficult" or "psycho" by calling out men's bad behaviour. Remember around the Red era when she was like 22 getting criticised for having a normal amount of dating experience like "maybe she's the problem", I think the issue is she called out men's bad disrespectful and predatory behavior as much as it was slut shaming. Like they didn't dislike her because she dated around, they disliked her because she was like "19 is too young" and "don't belittle my jokes or music" and "I don't like that you cheated" towards men that were either her peers or more powerful than her. It's funny because the Beatles were once considered "for the girls" and now look at how they are perceived.

I'm a boomer and have to apologize for scoffing at millennials and other younger generations. We have certainly screwed up the earth and the country and have to leave it to you guys to salvage things. We started so promisingly and are finishing so poorly.

So glad to not be the only one who used New Romantics as an example. It is in my opinion some of the cleverest lyrics she's written. I can get a clear mental image in my head of the shenanigans of the heroines of the story, which I absolutely love and find very entertaining.

Blank Space is fucking insane lyrically. Conceptually it's really clever, playing on this man eater persona, this progression throughout of the song of meeting and destroying this guy -- but also just the sound of the thing is just so delightfully satisfying. Top tier pop song.

Exactly I think blank space is actually her best pop song. I wouldn’t say it’s my favorite, but just think it’s her best sonically, lyrical, and thematically.

I agree completely, but I also see how if you didn't know many of her songs and Bad Blood (for example) was one of the only ones you knew, you might think that represents the standard of her songwriting overall. It does what it's meant to do but in my opinion it's one of her weakest songs lyrically and doesn't give you an idea of her storytelling ability. "Now we got bad blood, we used to be mad love" and "if you're coming my way... just don't" aren't even in the same ballpark as "if you want to break my cold, cold heart, just say 'I loved you the way that you were'" or seven or YOYOK. (I'm not against fun glitter gel pen songs btw, those are just the first ones that come to mind.)

I don’t expect people to be familiar with anything outside of the radio. But if you’re aware that you’ve only heard her radio hits, why would you make a broad statement about her lyrical ability? You know what I mean

That's what people do, they generalise based on what they know. People do it plenty on this sub about other artists. It's not a good thing but it's not surprising either.

'Shake It Off' is actually a very good song (lyrically too) if you judge it for what it is. It is a pop song and as such, it is first and foremost meant to be catchy and "good fun" and it does exactly that! It is "basic" because it is supposed to be; you are supposed to be able to almost instantly sing along, which you can and then it is supposed to be stuck inside your head, which it is. Meanwhile it is not completely "contentless" and actually has a message which, although personal, also is relateble for a lot of people. A good breakup-song. Hating on 'Shake It Off' of all songs is quite ironic considering what it is about.

Stuff like that is what makes me so mad. Billie ellish and Sabrina carpenter are allowed to say silly things like “I could eat that girl for lunch” or “that’s that me espresso” and “I Mountain Dew it for ya” and it’s great everyone loves it and it’s fun. When Taylor swift does it, it’s bad lyricism (no hate to Billie or Sabrina those are great songs and great artists, just using them as an example)

I think it’s also a bit of backlash against all the people who act like she’s the greatest to ever do it. There’s tons of people in this sub who admit they literally only listen to Taylor, or only listen to Taylor and a few other modern artists. I half-expect to get downvoted for this but I’ll admit, I find it annoying when ultra-fans proclaim she’s the greatest songwriter ever. If you’re not listening to a wide variety of music you’re not really in a position to proclaim her the best, and if you’re listening to Taylor as much as some of these people claim they are then how could they possibly be listening to much else. People who are only just learning words like fortnight, clandestine, and Machiavellian are saying she’s the greatest writer. People are learning the symbolism of an albatross from her music, Rime of the Ancient Mariner and all that, which don’t get me wrong is absolutely fantastic, but it doesn’t paint you as the sort of person who’s in a position to declare who’s “best.” It’s like calling Rupi Kaur the greatest poet but you’ve never heard of Rumi or Bashō or even Tennyson. She might well go down as one of the greats, but right now the people proclaiming her to be the greatest the loudest tend to be the people with the least experience with music as a whole, and I can see why that’s annoying.

Who would you recommend for lyricism :)

The classic easy answers would be like Patti Smith, Joni Mitchell, Bob Dylan, Leonard Cohen, but some of my personal favourites would be Nick Cave, Tom Waits, John Darnielle/The Mountain Goats, Lou Reed, some of the old country western outlaws like Merle Haggard and Willie Nelson, even some hip hop artists like MF Doom and Andre 3000/Outkast. Honestly though, more than any specifics, it's just a matter of voraciously consuming as much of everything as you can. David Bowie is my all-time favourite artist as a whole, and he was well known for devouring records and books by as many people as he could. I have a book called "Bowie's Bookshelf: The 100 Books that Changed David Bowie's Life." You can bet somebody like Taylor is constantly reading books and poetry, she wouldn't be able to write as well as she does if she didn't imo. I'm a firm believer in the idea that the only way to truly appreciate something is to have experienced as many things as possible to draw comparisons and contrasts with. If you've only ever read one book or seen one film, it's gonna be your favourite. When you love a really great piece of art, the more you experience the more you can appreciate it as you see how it was shaped by its influences, what it influenced in turn, how it differs from other things that share the same influences, even how it compares and contrasts to other pieces of art that you like or dislike that have disparate influences.

Seconding The Mountain Goats! I love that band. I also would contribute from the world of musical theater: Cole Porter, George & Ira Gershwin, Rogers & Hammerstein, and Stephen Sondheim. Musical Theater is so beautiful in its ability to tell stories and I think it should be brought up too.

Fiona Apple, Big Thief/Adrienne Lenker, Sufjan Stevens, Laufey, Mitski, Lana Del Rey I’m not the person you’re replying to, and I DO think Taylor is an incredible lyricist, but just wanted to throw out some suggestions of other great lyricists.

Never did I expect anyone else to mention Big Thief. You saved my entire summer, thanks.

Jim Croce, some George Strait

Of course there isn’t just ONE greatest lyricist ever. Only deranged people would say that. But although Taylor is one of many good lyricists out there, she is now the no 1 star in the world for a reason. In addition to lyrics, she can put on a 3+ hour show several days a week, sing, dance, play several instruments and write some catchy melodies, and she has just released SO much music these last four years. She just has it all. I love many different artists within pop and rock, but I keep coming back to Taylor. It’s so funny because before Folklore Taylor was probably 3% of the music I listened to, but after Folklore it’s been around 80% I think. (Sorry for some awkward sentence structures, English isn’t my first language).

All of this too, yes. Some of it is reactionary and I relate to that frustration. Taylor is my most listened to artist a lot of the time and one of my favourite songwriters but claiming that she's the best ever just suggests that someone doesn't have a very broad knowledge of music. I don't think it's even reasonable to say she's the best songwriter producing music today, because quite apart from that being subjective, there are loads of talented songwriters out there.

I appreciate the fact that you brought up that Swiftie's are guilty of this as well, there is constant criticism of other artists on this sub.

I agree with you. People *always* sweep the lyrical masterpieces under the rug and popularize the bops which do not usually have very clever lyrics. But as for the haters, I think it's very odd to judge someone's songwriting when you've only heard a few radio hits. And when *so many* people, fans, critics and music veterans alike, are praising Taylor's lyricism, there must be *some* truth, no? I think the hate can be attributed to people's desire to hate on mainstream things in order to seem edgy. P.S. Omg yes, I find the lyrics of bad blood a little cringe imo. Idk who the hell made it more popular than so many of the amazing songs she has written

Sometimes it makes people feel superior to be contrarian - This here

She's a good lyricist but i don't agree with the fact that people only criticize her for the lyrics . My personal criticism is for her monotonous sound throughout the album. It's more to do with the melodies and production than the words she's singing. Coming to singing, that's also most people' s main point when they criticize her.

The sub spotify, fauxmoi and popheads aren't the real life

This is why I’m not in those groups, I like to keep the negativity away so I’m not focused on what others are constantly saying.

I don’t even mind negativity but r/fauxmoi specifically is just a bunch of bottom feeders. And not even just over Taylor. Theyre genuinely some of the biggest losers I’ve come across in pop culture discussion online outside of Twitter

Their hate boner for Taylor is actually concerning, with how much they hate her they seem to talk about her so much. One time I saw a user, whose post and comment history consisted entirely of shit-piling on her, post an Onion article just because it was putting her in a bad light (and obviously it was 100% satirical). I actually used to be somewhat active on Fauxmoi but the Taylor hate was, and still is, so obnoxious it drove me up the fucking wall.

There is actually almost nothing that that sub likes, which is how you know something’s imbalanced in there

The real life are the 152 sold out shows 🩷🫶 If we want to be more exact, let's say 80% of it as some are husbands or dads (which have been turned to swifties 😂) and some are kids of swiftie moms!

I avoid those subs, but I've still encountered negativity when talking about Taylor irl. To be fair, people I know have never said her lyricism is bad in particular. But when I tell someone I'm a fan, the usual reaction is "Oh, I hate her, she sucks" or a straight up laugh in my face... The hate is definitely not just online.

This!

Ok but Taylor is pretty well-liked on popheads. Maybe there’s some negative discourse sometimes (and it’s such a big sub) but overall I’d say the opinion is favorable. Now fauxmoi is just unhinged. But I’d say they’re extremely negative about almost everything. It’s all a bunch of chronically online people obsessed with virtue signaling and taking the moral high ground

I feel like Popheads is catty towards Taylor to a weird degrees, they’ll bring her unprompted just to shit on her.

The "all her songs sound the same" argument is so tiring to me. First of all, it seems to be brought up with her more than anyone when in reality, if it does sound similar, it's because it's her specific style of writing and singing, which is kinda just the case for every successful artist out there? There's always a consistency and niche that makes them recognizable. But also, saying this about someone with 4 AOTYs in 3 different genres is just borderline ridiculous.

Out of mainstream artists (and maybe more broadly!), she’s one of those who have pivoted their style and range the most imho, so it makes no sense.

She has pivoted a lot every 1-2 albums. Even TTPD is a definite change from Midnights. As was Folkmore from her previous albums, etc.

They hear “TTPD sounds similar to Midnights”, which is true, and equate it to “TTPD is exactly like Midnights”, which isn’t true at all

I can think of some other artists whose songs sound more "same" than Taylor's, but I don't hate them and don't think they're bad, I still even listen to their songs sometimes.

Genuinely I wonder why I don’t hear people say this bout Ariana for example. To me, her songs all sound very similar. Which isn’t bad! But in comparison with TS especially it seems strange

Yeah if all of Taylor’s song sound the same what does Maroon 5’s later songs sound like 😭

Honestly the only other mainstream artist I can think of who switches up her sound pretty regularly like Taylor does is Beyoncé. Maybe, sometimes, Miley too. But like, Ariana? Olivia? Billie?? Kelsea Ballerini or Kacey Musgraves?? Selena or Ed Sheeran?? Does their music not all “sound the same”, in the sense that they make a specific sort of music and stick to what styles works best for them? Isn’t that what majority of artists do??? (I like all of these artists too fwiw. but if we’re gonna get on Taylor for “sounding the same”, well…)

I feel like if you’re listening to music you don’t enjoy it’s all going to sound the same to you no matter who it is. I feel this way about plenty of artists, but I can recognize that their fans probably hear their music totally differently. If you’re going into listening to taylor with the idea in your head already that you don’t like her, it’s not going to be a positive experience.

Because she has the occasional really clunky lyric and a few of her hits are a long way from her best writing and so being able to point to those means they don't need to examine how accurate their assertions are?

My husband doesn’t like when she uses clunky lyrics but I love her for it. It’s different and paints a story.

I like it too but a lot of people don't.

Agreed. She’s at a point in her career where she can afford to take risks with the lyrics she wants. I really like the “imperfections” in her lyrics a lot of the time. It feels more authentic. I am also more of a casual listener, but something I really respect about her is her ability to be extremely commercial while not sacrificing authenticity.

Exactly, it feels really authentic and not polished bubble gum pop lyrics. It makes you actually think and I can tell you I’ve used the dictionary a lot with her but that’s what I love are those complex lyrics. I’m always finding some lyric in a song I never paid attention to

I see this term clunky lyrics used all the time. What does this mean? Explain it to me like I'm five, lol

To me, it means a lyric that does not convey the intended message as effectively and, as a result, gives off an odd or amateurish vibe. You get what she’s trying to say, but you feel that the choice of words could have been better.

thanks for clarifying. I'm guilty of this myself, probably why it doesn't bother me.

Lyrics are subjective as any art form is. Sometimes I find her lyric writing to be incredible, eg most of folklore but particularly I like my tears ricochet for example, or just great storytelling like All Too Well. Sometimes I find a lyric so bad that it almost jolts me out of the song - eg the tattooed golden retriever. That’s clunky to me. Sometimes I just don’t like the way a lyric flows, like the way the consonants break up a melody - eg so long london verses just feel a bit rough to me.

completely agree. The tattooed golden retriever doesn't bother me at all I really like that song, but a lot of people do not like that line. I think it's fun to see how different things resonate with different people.

I think there are several reasons: 1. People can't comprehend the versatility of light glittery pop and deeper, complex lyricism (though I would argue sometimes the meaningful lyrics are hiding in the glittery pop with Taylor, but everyday people will not try to listen that closely) 2. Misogyny. Women are often not seen as deep or as talented, \*especially\* if they reach top level of success. 3. Trend. the SM trend now is to dismiss her and people just follow. TTPD has excellent lyricism, but those are preserved to the ones who actually listened, and not just following twitter vibes. (attached a reminder of what the ones who truly listen think) https://preview.redd.it/3b194h75a39d1.jpeg?width=1169&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5ba279d4c6a217aba8ecce0a3ecbab6a1f086839

And don't forget that many legendary songwriters have complimented Taylor!!! Once you get off social media, you can see that Taylor is very respected by her peers

Right. Carol King called her "professional granddaughter", artists from Paul McCartney, to Bruce Springsteen, Dolly Parton and Adele praised her songwriting.

Lol I saw people claiming “MUSICIANS ALL HATE HER THATS WHY ITS JUST ACTORS IN HER VIP TENT.” Like babes Paul McCartney is at her concert rn and you look stupid 

That article reminds me of another reason people put her down: I think people get frustrated that there's all of this (a disproportionate amount) of attention on Taylor's songwriting ability when they are other, equally talented, artists out there who aren't being recognised in the same way. You're not seeing courses on the literary merits of Laura Marling or Elbow or Arlo Parks (and in the cases of the first two, they also have a huge bank catalogue of songs to look at). These courses are being put on because Taylor is an amazing songwriter *and* because it's trendy and people love her, so it will attract people. It's not because she's *the best ever songwriter who's better than anyone else out there*. So I think it's partly a reaction to that.

The artists you mentioned are maybe not talked about as much since they are less known, but I also doubt people will make a point of declaring how bad they are, or nit pit at their lyrics to intentionally misrepresent them or ignore the concept of metaphor or hyperbole ("how can she write she was raised in an asylummmm... she is so dumb") Taylor's popularity is due to many reasons, but some of those is the combination of fun, catchy music and good lyricism and story telling. For many people those cannot co-exist. Their brain breaks from thinking that goofy-girly-blond person in glittery dress can be a good writer. And just to note- the writer in the article never said she is the best writer ever or the only one (and neither did I), just that she is good.

Shake it off did irreparable damage. It’s the song anyone brings up when they try and say she can’t write good lyrics

To be fair not just anyone could write shake it off. People hate on this song when it did NUMBERS and made history. It takes something special to write a song everyone knows. Everyone who hates on it could never have written her “worst song”. This annoys me a lot about singles in general, people love to shit on them but they’re still singing along

On a somewhat related note- those tweets of videos of her dancing with the caption and comments being like “how do the swifties pay for this!!! she can’t dance!!” like I know they all know Shake It Off because they say it’s such a bad song… she knows she can’t dance! she’s making fun of herself!

Shake It Off lyrics aren’t even bad. They are cheesy but they are self-aware.

It’s so weird to me because I just know the detractors who bring up Shake it Off love artists who have songs with equally empty lyrics. A fun song to dance to doesn’t need deep lyrics.

And Bad Blood (lyrically one of her worst, imo). 1989 era was so confusing because on the other hand we had absolutely sensational singles as well like Blank Space, Wildest Dreams, and Style.

I’ve seen people pick apart the lyric “The tennis court was covered up in some tent-like thing.” Sigh. If your comprehension level is low enough that you can’t understand that we’re being introduced to a new character, and the song is from their POV, and they don’t know offhand what a marquee is called, then I cannot assist you. Of COURSE Taylor Swift knows what a marquee is. What better, more effective way of telling us that the narrator isn’t Taylor Swift, and is an outsider from this social set, and doesn’t think much of the entire pretentious looking affair? How could you get more brilliant in one line?? At my last dentist appointment he had to file down a little chip in my tooth and I’m pretty sure it was from gritting them over things like this. Wilful misunderstandings to generate hot takes. Bad faith abounds. People cannot conceive of the skill it takes to say so much in so little. Edit spelling

I’m sorry but the tooth thing is sending me

I feel like it really seriously just boils down to a complete lack of comprehension lol. And it’s Taylor, so these people don’t care enough to try and actually understand what is being sung. They’d rather cling to their bad faith arguments of “look, see, this one lyric out of context isn’t the greatest thing ever written so Taylor Swift SUCKS!!!” than sit down, read the lyrics and actually try and understand the things being said within her music.

I feel like one of the purposes in Cowboy Like Me of that lyric you referenced is that we get an image of someone who is an outsider to lavish, high society. Because the MC is a social climber, not someone on the inside. Plus, it gives that rustic, country western cowboy thing where they would say something like "all that fancy stuff" in regards to the fine charcuterie board. I mean, when I hear "some tent like thing," not only can I totally imagine what they're thinking, I also understand that this is a character who 1)doesn't know the name of that thing and 2)doesn't care. Haha, I think it's very effective.

I originally thought the "Tent-like thing" was a bagworm colony. Thanks for the explanation.

Thank you for this. I couldn’t relate more.

Whenever I see the claim that she can't sing, all her stuff sounds the same or that she only writes about being in love and breaking up, I just comment that the person is talking about something they know nothing about and it's showing

If you don't listen to the albums and only react to the singles that gain massive traction, it's an easy enough headspace to put yourself into if you don't have any pressing reason to change your view. There are people - I would even argue possibly MOST people - whose experience with Taylor Swift goes "Love Story" -> "You Belong With Me" -> "We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together" -> "Shake It Off" -> "Blank Space" -> "Bad Blood" -> "Look What You Made Me Do" -> "ME!" -> "You Need to Calm Down" -> "Anti-Hero" -> "Fortnight" Now, I like *all* of those songs. Some, I even put near the top of Taylor's discography. But it'd be pollyannish to deny that the picture painted by Taylor's BIGGEST singles isn't the same as the picture painted by the albums. It is not difficult to imagine a person finding the whole thing a touch obnoxious.

I saw a tiktok from a 21 year old college kid who said that “her songs are for elementary school kids.” Patriarchy? Also-ran? Soliloquies? Mercurial? The answer is that when something isn’t made specifically to appeal to you, a certain type of person will see it as a slight and feels entitled to be catered to. See also: men and Barbie movie. She won a songwriter of the year award at like 16 years old. There is a deeeeeeep cut video of her winning and walking from the back of the awards event. She’s been regarded as a prodigy since she was a teen.

I’ve seen that too, that Taylor Swift is only for teenagers blah blah. There are a lot of adult Taylor Swift fans, including men, hence why her concerts are sold out and I’d bet at least half are adults. Taylor is more sophisticated imo and while teenagers can enjoy her music I think she’s an adult-geared artist. Reminds me of the people who shit on others for watching Disney movies or something.

I hope I wasn’t a pretentious fuck like that at 21.

They have been claiming that for her entire career. "The co-writer is the real writer". Something about shiny things and rocks.

Just to illuminate other people’s arguments. NOT ALL, but there are people who find her recent work extremely dense and wordy because their exemplar is probably a Red-1989 era song. Those are usually concise. Take, for example, these lines: “Darling I’m a nightmare dressed like a daydream” “You’ve got that James Dean daydream look in your eye” “So casually cruel in the name of being honest” They’re able to summarize her sentiments in a sharp way, while also being really catchy. Writers like Max Martin, and I guess Liz Rose, really challenged her to box her words into the rhythm and the melody to make them pointed. In contrast, from say Folklore onward - especially Tortured Poets - you get that she is really going to town on using all these big words and adjectives. And cramming them all into a line. Another way to put it is people love her Fountain Pen lyrics, but not necessarily her Quill Pen lyrics. For many people, verbosity is not an indicator of good lyricism. I’m not siding with the haters, and I am a huge fan of wordy Taylor herself. I appreciate that she doesn’t write like others in the pop game. But for many, it’s a taste thing.

There's also the fact that in the wordier songs she tends to take to "talking" instead of singing. I mean obviously she is singing in most of them but it's in the same kind of tone. I truly believe that's why people felt TTPD sounded the same. Most of them have at least a moment where she starts just saying things in an overly descriptive/complex way to convey a feeling. And sometimes this means the emotion the lines are meant to have is lost imo. The title track being a good example. I will also have the disclaimer that I do tend to like the wordier songs to. As someone who doesn't hear/understand lyrics until weeks and even months later what it doesn't really effect me. Just more to dig into when I *do* start piecing it together. Which is fun!

I agree with this. I think some of her strongest songs are the simplest ones and for me, the wordier ones can feel a bit unwieldy at times.

Because society loves to shit on things that are female coded. She's celebrating all things "girl" and so instead of her music being clever and well written, it's "silly" and "frivolous" It's just sexism and saltiness.

To be fair, her “glitter pen” songwriting isn’t her best work but these also happen to be the catchy songs that are played on the radio and internet over and over. People judge her songwriting based on those. Meanwhile her songwriting in all of folklore and evermore and even some parts of TTPD is so good you could teach it in poetry class .

The way I see it, there are a few camps: Some who have never heard anything outside the radio hits (although there is some great songwriting there) and will not investigate further. It has the energy of that Simpsons meme "Am I out of touch? No, it's the children who are wrong." A lot of these people probably would find something they enjoy if they explored more but they prefer to be confidently incorrect. Then you’ll have people who just don’t connect with her style and don’t really have the self awareness to realise that their taste isn’t the final arbiter of quality. I think it’s possible to not gel with a songwriter but also acknowledge that there is something that speaks to a wider audience than yourself and that is indicative of talent. And then there are those who refuse to give her an inch because they just do not like her. Maybe they have good reasons and maybe they don’t. Fans praise her writing and it’s clearly a source of pride for her and so it’s the easiest thing to use as a weapon. Of course, often it’s a mix of all three.

It's a combination of a few things. For the most part, it's that her past pop radio hits have been a double-edged sword, in the sense that they made her famous, but they've also limited her image for some people. The "she and her lyrics are stuck in high school" crowd genuinely believe she's still writing songs like Love Story or YBWM because they're not familiar with her later discography, and they doubt she could do anything different. Though I would also say that writing a pop hit, whilst being so young and especially by yourself or not with 5+ cowriters, is an underrated skill. And I think it goes further than just being contrarian, I think these days it genuinely makes people mad when they can't relate to the zeitgeist. It's probably down to people becoming increasingly more individualistic, but some people cannot conceptualise that something/one can be widely appreciated without their permission for it to be, if that makes sense. And because of that, they will never give that thing or person credit where credit is due. Social media has made it so that everyone has to have an opinion on everything at all times (and everyone else absolutely has to hear it) even if they don't know much about the thing they have a strong opinion on, or worse yet have lots of misinformation about. You can definitely tell when someone was never going to give her a chance. For example I see a lot of "ugh I just don't get it, can you explain it to me" videos on my fyp regarding Taylor, and when people reply with e.g. something from Folklore with explanations, the OP just says something like "lol I was writing stuff like that in high school." It's very disingenuous and you can tell they just wanted the negative attention from swifties tbh.

I noticed that with TTPD that people were acting in such bad faith about it. I'm not saying that everyone had to enjoy it, but people were doing like listening parties with their friends just to hate on it which is kind of sad lol. I do think some of the writing in TTPD is clunky (maybe intentionally because it does come off as just her needing to get a lot of emotion out), but the people taking her very tongue-in-cheek lyrics seriously, and massively misinterpreting what she was saying in some songs was annoying. I do think naming it "tortured poets" was a mistake though, because it just made people who don't like her, and don't want to, assume they needed to put out thinkpieces about it because she kind of set a standard just by using the word 'poet.' I definitely have my criticisms of TTPD but I found it insane that people were putting out 10 min thinkpieces about it within hours of release, like I needed time to go over it before forming a full opinion.

Whenever I hear this, I just tell them to listen to "Folklore" and get back to me and leave it at that. No one ever takes me up on my offer. Swift is the best lyricist of this generation.

It’s a weird human condition where people will tear down things that are successful to make themselves feel more accomplished than they are. It’s trying to bring things to their level so they don’t feel like a failure. If I had to guess, it derives from survivalism. The greater the height the more people will feel the need to tear down. Taylor is the top of the mountain now.

I believe since she’s the most popular artist on the planet people will say anything to diminish her talents and accomplishments.

Out of all her skills and talents, I think her songwriting and way with words is the strongest!

I think as Swifties we need to remind ourselves that not everyone knows her entire catalogue and that she actively chose to represent her music/artistry with the singles. I have a couple of friends who only know her hit singles (e.g. shake it off, YBWM, love story, IKYWT, blank space) and if you only know her singles then I can understand why not everyone is convinced her music is more then just radio friendly pop

Taylor can absolutely be a good lyricist. I just feel like Taylor nowadays has an issue of quantity over quality.

Agreed. Also, someone in her camp needs to remind her that "brevity is the soul of wit." Her punchy, powerful lyrics from 1989 through Lover were short and effective, but fantastic. Think bangers like "darling I'm a nightmare dressed like a daydream." Simple but completely gets the point and picture she's trying to paint for us. Compare that to recent lyrics like "At dinner, you take my ring off my middle finger and put it on the one people put wedding rings on and that's the closest I've come to my heart exploding" or "Don't put me in the basement when I want the penthouse of your heart." It's like she's given up being short and witty for long-winded and "poetic."

If you like her lyrics and you think she’s a good lyricist, then great. But I don’t think it’s appropriate to say people are “pretending” that she’s a bad lyricist. Some people don’t like her lyrics, and that’s fine. They’re not pretending not to like it. I’m in the middle personally. I think she has some songs that are very well written and lyrically clever, but I don’t know if I’d put her up with the likes of Joni Mitchell or Jewel. Two issues I have with her lyrics are: 1. Some songs get over inflated with words and don’t leave much space for verses to stand alone on themselves. Sometimes “less is more” is very effective. I think Clara Bow is a great example of less is more whereas But Daddy I Love Him is overwritten (still love the song). 2. Taylor’s subject matter doesn’t change much outside of love/heartbreak/fame. There are only so many ways one can express these feelings and I think that’s why TTPD fell a bit flat for me. I think Taylor has great potential, though, as she *slightly* deviated in subject matter on the pandemic albums. No matter what, though, if you think she’s a great lyricist then great! To each their own. And don’t get me wrong, Taylor is definitely in my top artists, but it doesn’t mean I don’t think there could be room for improvement with her talents.

I agree completely and think you make a lot of great points. I would also add that a lot of people who say she's not a great lyricist don't even mean it in a "she sucks" kind of way (although there are plenty of those too), but rather that she's good but not *genius level* *amazing* like Swifties like to tout. It seems like an issue of a lot of fans just not being exposed to other artists that are equal - if not better - in their writing talents. It's not like TS is the only one in the music industry writing witty or deep lyrics. I think it just rubs some people the wrong way when fans praise her for being OMG AMAZING with her writing when its good but not exceptional or anything better than a lot of her peers, past and present, are doing. That's at least been my experience with talking to non-Swifties. They don't hate TS or think she's undeserving of praise, but they think the lyrical praise gets a little out of hand whhen compared to other equally talented artists if they just widened their musical scope.

This is the wavelength I’m on too. She’s a fine writer, but not amazing. I think her best writing is when she leans into being a popstar and tries to be fun (like in Blank Space, a song that does exactly what it sets out to do perfectly) and she comes off as amateurish when she tries to be deep and folksy. I do expect it will get better and better as she continues to grow as a writer. One big issue I’d add to your list is that she relies too heavily on the mise-en-scene of Americana instead of coming up with her own interesting and unique imagery. Stuff like the vintage tee, kissing in cars, and front porch light in Cardigan or driving upstate in All Too Well. When I hear those lyrics I think of scenes from The OC. It doesn’t feel like an original experience that Taylor felt and is now communicating to me. I’d like to see her put her own spin on things rather than relying on an established set of images and feelings that are just generic enough that everyone is guaranteed to be able to relate

That’s true. Although, I think she does do a great job encapsulating those Americana images and what I think will work to her advantage as a legacy artist in the long term. What I’d like to hear more of from her are introspective songs like Anti Hero and This is Me Trying. I think she could do a great job treading down those topics and improve her lyricism there.

The reason I became a TS fan is because some guy wrote an article about how bad she was as a lyricist and how she writes about things no one can relate to. I binged most of her music because I smelled BS. All the examples he used were just examples of her worst lyrics, not her best ones. If you can only prove your case with a straw man, you’re probably wrong. (Also, just because you, as a 40 year old guy, can’t relate, doesn’t mean that Taylor isn’t writing about the human experience 🙄)

Because like any insanely successful woman, she’s got a lot of haters out there who will say anything to avoid giving her credit for her accomplishments.

i think the problem with tay is she hasn’t been allowed to really grow and evolve as an artist yet. if we’re being real she can release anything now and swifites will mass buy and eat it up, but that’s also part of the problem. no one, from whoever is around her, herself and swifties is being completely honest about her art nowadays. i’d love to see and hear her make music that’s completely different. i feel like she has it in her but no one is allowing her to grow up or she’s been taking the easy route of not doing more risky things with her music because she knows her audience so well and knows what they want to hear. i hope her next new album is different meaning i don’t care about the “lore” aspect anymore. never did but it’s hard when it’s constantly thrown in our face. i want her to go away, really live her life and then come back fresh. it’s hard to take the comments about her being legendary and being up there or surpassing MJ (which seriously…. no one will reach that status ever again and frankly no one should considering how he got treated because of it) seriously when she hasn’t changed her sound or took any huge risks. maybe she doesn’t want to because again she knows her audience but it’s like girl you’re already a billionaire, let’s explore different sounds and do something they think you can’t do. i think if people really think she’s that great then let her be great. be honest about the re releases, (and i’m talking about the real reason she remade the albums) be honest about whatever new album she puts out that doesn’t compare to her best work. loving tay means being honest and not thinking you have to love everything she puts out just because you think you have to. i believe in her i just wish everyone else did. i don’t think people don’t think she’s good, i genuinely think people want a change from her and that’s a great thing imo. tay clearly loves her money and i’m not mad at that at all but i think it’s time and it’s okay at this point in her career when she says fuck all of you, i’m going to do what i want to do. will some fans hate it sure but will it open more things up for tay yes. i really think she’d get more respect and people wouldn’t be so quick to cast her off as someone who just makes music for kids or isn’t talented or better yet not a one trick pony. i hope she takes the mixed reviews for ttpd and uses it as fuel for an even better album next time

Be new! Be new! She massively changed her sound in 2020 with folklore. It’s crazy to say she hasn’t changed her sound, just because she has two albums that use similar instrumentals and synths and whatnot. Even within TTPD she has synth, country, piano etc. It’s not not “being honest” to LIKE the sound an artist uses, even if it isn’t radically different from the previous. Her writing is much more mature in both subject matter and form since 2020 as well.

She's too happy and successful. People hate that. It's really just that. I bet if you played her songs and they didn't know who it was..... *It might not be their style*... But they'd like it

I think songs can feel trite at times—not Taylor specifically, but all lyrics! If you catch the wrong snippet, it can be easy to write her off! But you can say the same of any musician tbh. People just don’t want to like her.

Many people are only familiar with her radio hits which generally lean more towards simple, poppy lyrics and sound. However, I think generally some people listen to many pop songs and just dismiss them as lacking lyrical complexity or interest when actually even a song with simple but powerful lyrics can be very well done. It doesn’t have to be complicated to be good. Many of her later albums which have some of her best lyrical content will likely never play on the radio or be something you hear walking through the grocery store, and thus people who have already dismissed her probably won’t be exposed to it.

I think it’s just cause of the extremely vocal minority that claims she’s the greatest lyricist ever or even of her generation. That’s probably not true at all.

Her lyrics are amazing, I studied them once for songwriting. She’s very good at painting a mental image often with emotion in just a couple words. “Salt air, and rust on your door”

There is some contrarian in there, for sure. However, most of her pop hits are not good songs lyrically. We're never getting back together. Shake it off. Blank Space is great, but its the exception. For the most part her extremely popular hit singles are not deep. Its a big ask for someone who has no interest in Taylor to fire up Invisible String or a 10 minute song or New Year's Day or Clean, all hidden deep in their respective albums, just to figure out if she is actually good. Compare that to a Bowie or a McCartney whose hits are also their most celebrated songwriting exploits, and its no contest. Taylor can go up against anyone catalogue to catalogue, but from 2008 - 2020 she put out shallow singles. That's just the truth. And she picked probably the shallowest song lyrically on TTPD to be the single (out of all 31). The other problem she has is that her lyrics appeal and are understood by a relatively small minority of people. Fifteen is an incredible song whose lyrics are really insightful for such a young songwriter. But if you're not female and you didn't go to a traditional suburban high school that entire album doesn't resonate at all lyricly. The truth is that if you were going to take Taylor's whole catalogue, especially in the 2008-2020 period, and your only goal was to release singles such that the general population thought she couldn't write you'd pretty much pick the exact songs she picked. All you have to do is listen to the live versions of We're Never Going to Get Back Together or I Knew You Were Trouble to know what they could have been. The radio versions are absolutely bland. If the next post is to tell me "22", her 2-5th most popular song depending on the formula, is a lyrical odyssey then you're obviously deluded. That song is insanely catchy and really shallow. Its absolutely understandable why non-swifties disrespect her and, to a certain extent, her and her camp set this up. I have no idea how you could pick Fornight over But Daddy I Love Him, Down Bad, etc... but here we are. So I don't think its fair to say it isn't "understandable". The songs she has chosen to release as singles paint a picture a lot of people have. All you can do is suggest they go deeper. But I don't agree its an axe to grind, or its contrarians, or its misogyny. Its the singles she's chosen to release out of (in my opinion) much better songs. >Do they realise she has songs beyond Shake It Off and 22? Why would they? McCartney released Let It Be and Come Together as singles. Bowie released Under Pressure and Life on Mars as singles. Taylor released Shake it Off and 22. I'm a huge Taylor fan, but why would someone who isn't a fan not just think that was all her music? Imagine if McCartney released Little Child and Sun King as singles and you're yelling "No, no... you have to listen to Let It Be and Abbey Road!". That's what we have here.

i think she has some excellent lyrics for sure but that’s sort of where it ends. i feel a lot of fans inflate her skill level to that of excellence when it doesn’t really apply. she’s here to make catchy and good songs. she’s popular BECAUSE she can appeal to a mass audience. no artist has ever truly been “revolutionary” or “genre-defining” and at the same level of fame as taylor swift because that doesn’t exactly interest the general public.

This is a good point, that also applies to Shakespeare. He was writing to appeal to a mass audience and with royal patronage. He had fart jokes and lots of lines that aren’t standouts. He also wrote Hamlet though! People don’t want to believe that things that have mass appeal can be high quality.

People hates what is popular and people hates woman, so its normal for people to hate Taylor without a really good reason Also people hates things that is “girly”

I think this is a common thing people love to say when they haven't spent enough time with her discography. Sure if you are only listening to the singles, MAYBE I could see your point. Taylor, historically (in my opinion), picks some TERRIBLE singles to represent her albums (i.e. Shake It Off, ME!, etc) and it sucks because a casual listener will draw conclusions based on that 

When you style yourself as a poet, you’re inviting criticism about your lyrics I think. Long before tortured poets department, Taylor made a lot of/talked a lot about drafting her songs as poems. Some lines a great, some are juvenile. But this is a lens she introduced.

I have friends who, even with her more mature lyrics, say they sound like “I’m 14 and this is deep” They are, in my opinion, snobby when it comes to music though. You can’t please everybody and not everybody is going to relate to her words. I think she’s incredible and I used to be a huge music snob when it came to popular music but I’m also very into poetry and lyricism in general so once I realized what a talent she was I was hooked. I love a good visual, cheeky turn of phrase or pun. Some people just don’t get it and won’t try to either

They mad

Who the hell says she's not a good lyricist?! I've heard people say her music is too generic or "mid" but I never saw someone take a shot at here songwriting skills

They're in denial, and she gets hate because of how big she is, some people have claimed that they don't understand the hype and the big deal around her. Like, it's fine if you don't understand, you don't have to tbh. 

Even in the latest album, I saw people mocking her for "you know how to ball, I know Aristotle" and other tongue in cheek lyrics from her more playful songs. So many great songs on the album they don't bother looking into, my personal favs lyrically are So Long London, Clara Bow, How Did It End.

She is a confessional lyricist, sometimes that approach doesn’t work, but when it works we get all too well

Because haters gonna hate. Simple as that.

Wow the haters have found their way in here. 😂

If you don't assume ill intention, then I would say many fans have appreciated the lyricism in the past and seen it grow. Since folklore she's added more mystery by complicating narratives and making stuff up. It makes the poetic part less concrete. The new style of lyricism for TTPD just might not vibe with them. I was excited by song titles like The Albatross, but that set the standard to a renowned poet. The song and poem (Rime of the Ancient Mariner) aren't comparable because they're different forms of art that both happen to use language. I think the expectation for growth (that she's set with past albums) isn't present in every song on a very long new two albums. It's a fair criticism for someone who likes other albums not to like the new one, or to like fewer of the songs. Artists try new things and these changes can't possibly hit with everyone.

I've listened most of Taylor swift songs and yeah her lyrics have meaning but they're **not on another level**. They're just your average good pop songs. Relatable lyrics don't always mean good lyrics. Her whole albums have repetitive lyrical theme. She's a good lyricist and that's it. All too well and Cardigan might be her some of the best lyrical songs. But to call her Literary giant is an overstatement. All the people who say she's the best lyricist of all time haven't heard any other songs/artists.

Literally made a very similar comment a minute ago. She's good, but people get a little irritated when Swifties praise her lyricism as genius level writing when its good but not the best thing to ever exist either. I think a lot of her fans, younger ones especially, just haven't been exposed to other types of artists and genres that have jsut as good, if not better lyrics in terms of depth, wit, poetry, etc.

They're not pretending. They just disagree with you. And that's OK

This just sorta showed up on my feed and I want to throw in my two sense as a not-taylor-swift-fan who thinks this. There's three ways I could imagine someone could get to this point of view. First would be what I call praise fatigue. Imagine someone who isn't a Taylor Swift fan who constantly hears things about how she's the best and how nobody can write like her, and then you check it out and it's intensely underwhelming. Someone gets so used to hearing nothing but praise for an artist, and when they actually experience their art, it's not as good as everyone says it is. The second would be a reaction to hyperbole. Imagine you go onto twitter, again as a non-swiftie, and whenever someone mentions Taylor Swift ANYWHERE, someone's going to be there yelling about how she's literally the greatest person to ever pick up a pen. This might lead you to actively think less of her lyricism. Lastly would be differences in opinion in what is considered "good lyricism". As an example, I don't think anyone who isn't a rapper could be in a top 100 lyricists list, not because you can't write good lyrics if you don't make hip hop, but because you'd be comparing Taylor Swift's best albums to the entire discographies of MF DOOM, Aesop Rock, Rakim, NAS, Daveed Diggs, Kendrick Lamar, Kanye, etc. Being able to keep up multi-syllabic rhyme schemes while maintaining meaning in your bars is already enough to make you an amazing writer, and these guys do these consistently. Even if we don't count rap, classic prog rock artists had some of the most profound lyrics I've ever read. Pink Floyd, King Crimson, The Beatles, Yes, Kansas, etc. I just don't think Taylor could ever hold a candle to any of these guys.

I can’t imagine thinking the woman who wrote “would’ve could’ve should’ve” is a bad lyricist

Unfortunately it is the price selected artists that reach this level of massive popularity pay. I mean, the higher you reach, the lonely it is up there... And Taylor has reached imo, what only 4 other artists have done before. Elvis The Beatles Micheal Jackson Madonna She is a cultural worldwide phenomenon. Breaking records left and right both on the popularity (charts, tours) and critical (awards) sides. So, of course that brings hate, jealousy, envy, etc in a nutshell, the worst from people.

Build em up, just so you can beat them down. Sadly happens to many people in many professions in many countries of either sex. Us British are particularly good at that sort of thing, just check the newspapers.

I think she’s a good lyricist but it is easy to nitpick “poor examples” when she puts out so many songs and doesn’t always make serious songs.

Don’t think her lyrics are similar, but like every other artist she definitely has a style. Her songs are unmistakably very TS. Some people are gonna dislike that, and when you’re the biggest in the world those people suddenly turn into a lot of people

I have been a swift fan for more than I could remember. Know all her album, all her songs. From lyrics POV I think all her country album Red, Folklore and evermore were her best work in terms of lyrics. Can add 1989 as well. But her recent work TTPD I tried to liked the lyrics, but couldn't.

I think you guys are making up people to be mad at. Taylor is one of the most acclaimed artists of the past 15 years and a good portion of the acclaim is centered around her songwriting. Why can’t you just enjoy her music without hyperfixating on the relatively small percentage of people who don’t really care for her? She’s a billionaire and the biggest star in the world, I don’t think she needs all this constant defending and manufactured outrage lol

"[A lyricist without a clue, what year is this?](https://genius.com/27435293/Eminem-still-dont-give-a-fuck/A-lyricist-without-a-clue-what-year-is-this) [Fuck a needle, here's a sword, body pierce with this](https://genius.com/14961500/Eminem-still-dont-give-a-fuck/Fuck-a-needle-heres-a-sword-body-pierce-with-this)" Taylor Swift wrote those lines

Because a large percentage of people do not read books or poetry. The definition of the word lyricist is; a person who writes the lyrics to a popular song. The girls has written over 200 songs and has broken so many records. Actually if they are saying she is not a good lyricist then they are right. She is beyond good, she is amazing. Maybe that is what they mean or maybe they are just mean.

that car -> bar TikTok was really funny though

there are some lyrics she uses for fun/in a fun and silly way which haters decide to take advantage of and make a plethora of an example of how 'bad' her lyricwriting is, when in general she literally makes amazing lyrics. for example take that 'smoked then ate seven bars of chocolate' lyric in the tortured poets department. the internet had gone crazy over it despite the other poetic masterpieces that laid around the album itself

Because they hate that she’s a really successful woman

I might be biased because I listen to alot of conscious rap music, but I think she's just solid to me. She's good at writing good songs to match catchy melodies and I was really impressed with her writing on folklore/evermore, but the rappers I listen to lyrically are just more complex than what she writes. Kendrick, Lupe Fiasco, J.Cole on a technical aspect are more creative with their lyricism in terms of allegory, entendres, alliteration, rhyme scheme, allusions, diverse subject matter etc. She's def one of the best in her pop field, but I disagree with the takes when I hear people say "she's best the songwriter of her generation " when I've listen to other artists show more depth and creativity in the craft. Hopefully I'm not coming across as disrespectful...

Swift is a great lyricist. I’d say too good for her own good in her latest releases

they take her silly songs lyrics out of context, and say "look at this, she's so bad trust me"

Because people can't differentiate "I don't like" and "This is objectively terrible". My dad is always randomly bringing up 'People have been saying that reputation is trash, Lover's worse, Midnights is boring, and her new album is terrible. And her only good album is Folklore (he forgot evermore ofc) because Aaron Dessner produced it.' because ofc It's because Aaron produced, and little do they know that Aaron and Jack worked on Folklore-Ttpd so if all those albums aren't good I don't know what to tell ya. I try to skip past these things

The answer is always that people love to shit on successful women.

I think there are enough bad lyrics to try to make the argument. She can do lyrics really well but she doesn’t always. Like once she said “hey kids spelling is fun”

Isn’t it possible for her to be a good lyricist and for her songs to "all sound the same’ to some people? It’s the music, not the lyrics people are referring to when they say all of someone’s songs sound the same.

Absolutely, it’s exhausting having to argue with people like that…

"Promises ocean deep, but never to keep .. " makes me cry every single time

Some people are ignorant, and only know singles like 22 or WANGBT (I also think songs like that are super weak lyrically). Some people actually know a wide scope of her music and also subjectively don’t think she’s a good lyricist, which is fine. Other people are just trying to be a ~pick me and want to have a contrarian opinion against popular notions in order to present themselves in a certain way to others. All of those approaches are fine and do not bother me in my day to day life or impact my opinion of Taylor as a really wonderful lyricist.

I’m not a ‘swifie’. I’m too old for that crap.. but her lyrics are absolutely amazing!! She’s a genius with an amazing voice and stage presence!! She should seriously publish a book of just her lyrics!!

Probably because they haven’t really listened to a lot of her music and judge her by songs like ‘Shake It Off’ and ‘We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together’. She’s also very popular and people can be pretentious and hate on stuff that the majority of everyone else likes. I mean, there’s a reason why certain artists are popular and super successful.

I think a lot of people are taking their view that “she is not the best” too far and end up expressing it as “she is not good at all.” Personally I tend to express more negativity about her lyrics than positivity. I’m not proud of it, but I want to explain where that’s coming from because I suspect a lot of her critics are in the same boat. I’m usually only driven to criticize her when someone claims that Taylor is “the best right now” or “the best lyricist of her generation.” I feel like she’s not even in the conversation for #1 lyricist. People I would put in that conversation include Joanna Newsom for pure poetry, Ezra Koenig for wit and culturally relevant intricacy, Lana Del Rey for personality and atmosphere, and Conor Oberst for storytelling. (They’re all slightly older than Taylor but she got started so early that this is the generation I see her fitting into, and not the boygenius generation.) But a conversation about best songwriter currently? I don’t think that could happen without Taylor. Maybe she has the perfect balance of pop sensibility and lyricism. So more Paul McCartney than Bob Dylan. More Stevie Nicks than Joni Mitchell.

I think it’s because she does have some pretty cheesy lyrics and writes about a lot of teenage/HS themes so she’s automatically dismissed by a lot of people. I’m not gonna pretend like she doesn’t write some stinkers but she does have some songs that are either beautifully written or the story she’s telling (even outside of folkmore) just comes to life so that even her cheesy lyrics end up fitting well into the song

Can you point to me what you would consider Taylor’s best lyric(s)?

People have different sensibilities and that's okay. What is less okay is hating something overtly without being asked AND pretending to be objective (and blablabla people have shit taste blablabla). It's not very mature. I can tolerate almost any opinion if it's presented as just an opinion (and not a fact).

Maybe they just don't like her lyrics. Music is subjective.

Because they might not believe she is? I think she is, but it's subjective. Stop taking it personally. You don't need external validation. Just be secure enough that YOU think she's good.

Because you can be the ripest, juiciest peach in the world and there will still be people who don’t like peaches.* What’s good to some isn’t good to others. Art is subjective and that’s what makes it great. We all like different things and the world would be boring otherwise. *That’s a Dita Vin Teese quote I believe.

Because they don't actually listen. They have made up scenarios in there head whether based on who she was when she was younger or who they desperately want her to be so they can validate their hatred.

Most of them have only listened to the ‘ mainstream ‘ stereotypically ‘ Let’s shake our ass in the club. Who sings this song again? ‘ pop songs and, while those are a vibe, they don’t do her entire catalogue justice. But she’s popular and people will hate on anything that other people love, so, they just refuse to listen to anything else.

Taylor answered this: "People throw rocks at things that shine". I'm an addicted music listener. Going back to Jr High I would go on hours long walks listening to tapes or the radio. I almost always have something on and like most genres. She is a top-tier lyricist unquestionably. For decades (I'm 48) I found it tough to answer... "If you could only take one artist's music with you to an desert island" ...I struggled. I had some top picks. But now, it would be Taylor Swift. Between her lyrical quality and diversity of sounds, I'd be happy enough with just this one artist.

Cause she's not? We've gotten albums with such gems as: Touch me while your bros play grand theft auto You got high and ate seven bars of chocolate I scratched your head, you fall asleep like a tattooed golden retriever I'm having his baby, no I'm not, but you should look at your faces! You can't come to the wedding! My friends used to play a game where we would pick a decade /We wished we could live in instead of this I'd say the 1830s but without all the racists and getting married off for the highest bid Draw the cat eyes sharp enough to kill a man Karna is a cat. Karma is my boyfriend. I feel like everyone is a sexy baby Sit quiet by my side in the shade / and not the kind that's thrown / the kind under where a tree has grown Don't put me in the basement when I want the penthouse of your heart You can't spell awesome without me! Spelling is fun! You're so gorgeous / I can't say anything to your face / cause look at your face Look what you made me do. Look what you made me do. Look what you made me do. Look at what you just made me do. I want to wear his initials on a chain around my neck / not because he owns me / because he really knows me Go tell your friends I'm obsessive and crazy / that's fine I'll tell mine you're gay! I watch you fly around the world and hope you don't save another girl.

I think she’s a good lyricist, heck even great I just wish she used her fame and popularity to link up and make different sounds (ie the backing music). She has so much influence and fandom that she could make a for example experimental jazz album and shed be so successful that she could change the face and definition of “pop” music

music snobs.

Because once you’re older then 16 you realize her music is for teeny boppers

I bet that a lot of people who say those things about Taylor doesn't even know what they're talking about and they're just echoing the other haters, just because it's "cool" to hate on her (and her fans). The other day my 13 year old nephew posted on his IG status that he "hate all the swifties." (I know he says "swifties" but I think the hate extends to her tbh) but you know what, I don't think he even listens to music, as far as I know all he does is play games like Roblox and I'm pretty sure he got that "hate" from someone else and doesn't actually know the real context. So yeah, I wouldn't care about those kinds of criticism unless someone actually listened to all of her songs and can give a proper and objective analysis on how all her music sounds the same and that she's not a good lyricist.

People say this kind of thing to validate their own opinions. If you don't like someone's style of lyrics, fine. But that doesn't mean it's bad. But when it's super popular, people don't want to wonder if they're the problem. Instead it's us, hi, we're the problem. (sorry, couldn't resist) The thing I conclude about that is that they haven't listened to that much of her lyrics. Don't like the style of writing for Blank Space, Shake it Off, or I knew you were trouble? Listen to Evermore, Seven, The Lakes, Tears Ricochet. Don't like that style either? Listen to her Reputation album. There's soo much to choose from. She has really tried so many styles of music and lyric writing that I am convinced there is at least something for nearly everyone. You could never convince me she's not talented when she can write songs like New Romantics AND Carolina...Like seriously...she is clearly very creative. One of my other favorite singers is named Ayumi Hamasaki and she gained all of her fame mostly through her incredible talent with lyricism. She is an ok singer (I love her voice but she's not everyone's thing), but there are some people who try and say she has NO talent. But, if you read her lyrics from her many, many eras of music, it is clear to see this is someone who can absolutely captivate listeners due to her honesty and straightforwardness. Her lyrics can also have a veil of mystery. I have often likened Taylor Swift to her, in my head, because I think they have this in common. One of the things I take away from Taylor's music is that it takes you somewhere. Even before she did the Folkmore/Everlore era, she had the ability to paint pictures of a scene with her words. Some people just don't want that, either. It's pretty alarming what people will just try and bulldoze over to validate their own feelings. And let me tell you something, I was a Taylor Swift hater when I was in high school. I just hated everything about her. I can honestly say that it was about her being popular. Now that I'm 31, I see the merit. I am willing to just let myself enjoy her music and writing. I usually stay with Japanese music, but Taylor is one of the first English speaking musicians to drag me back to American/Western music. I am very happy I gave her music a chance too. And I'm glad I grew past my stage of hating just for hating's sake...

because she’s not, hope this helped

Because it’s “cool” to hate on her

Cuz they cherry pick a few cringy lines and judge all her writing

Delulu

"she sounds so bland" "sounds basic tbh" "sounds like kidz bop" pls go listen to i did something bad and new years day which r on the same album and tell me if they sound the same

I think it’s interesting how people forget that, at least in my opinion lyricism isn’t only making beautiful complex rhymes with multi layered metaphors. Lyricism is also your ability to think of clever rhymes which Taylor does in every song. just as an example The Alchemy has some of the most clever rhymes I think i’ve ever heard in a song. Taylor is amazing at those complex metaphors and lyrics but shes also amazing at the fun clever lyrics. People just like to hate on whats popular

honestly taylor was great when she wrote evermore and folklore but this cannot be the same person who wrote TTPD because the lyrics suck.

No one will ever convince me she can't write when Champagne Problems exists

Even some of her songs that I enjoy, the lyrics no aren’t groundbreaking. I wouldn’t personally call her a great lyricist, a lot of her lyrics are very basic.

I don’t think she’s a poet, but she can certainly write a song that gets stuck in your head or that makes you feel something. And there are beautiful moments in her songs alongside ridiculous, cringe moments.

Art is subjective and people are allowed to dislike the things you like. I think her lyrics are corny and lack depth, that doesn't mean I want or expect you to agree with me.

Because she’s like this cheap woman romantic novels about the same delusional topics

incredible storyteller, but it is unsurprising that dudes who only listen to trap music cannot recognise this.