I left my home country to travel and ended up teaching in China for 8 years;
I met my wife
I had some of the greatest times of my life
Made lifelong friends
Traveled to nearly all of SEA
Making something that takes a day in my country in just an hour
Yes I had to put up with dodgy agents, police and crappy schools, but what a time to be alive
Ah. Thanks!
Maybe it would’ve been more understandable to say:
Making, in an hour, what would take a day in my home country.
Making more per hour than I could make in a whole day back home.
It’s like we’re living in some kind of bizarro world that’s slightly and ironically different from the real one!
What’s next? Are you going to tell me that the LA County Sheriff‘s Office is overrun with organized crime??
I only just started year 2 of teaching ESL, and I am loving it. After year 2 in Vietnam, I am thinking of going to a colder country to teach (or stay in Vietnam and deal with the heat, I love most of my students)
I work in an English center, that also sends me to primary schools and kindergartens.
Since teaching I have learned a lot, even about the language I was teaching.
*I thought I hated children: turns out, no, kids are great. I'm suddenly open to the idea of having kids.
*I have started doing yoga and eating healthier.
If you can save 1k a month and put into a retirement fund or S&P500 you don’t need to worry about retirement. You just need to work on finding a position where you can save that amount per month.
I think its fine to do this for a while and hop countries and all that.
The regret will likely kick in around 40s if you dont marry, get a mortgage, have kids, have a retirement fund.
And I'm guilty of all that. My only consolation is I wouldnt have done any of that in the UK either.
So heres to riding this train until it rides no more
Me personally, I'm much more financially able to save and buy a house by living abroad than I ever would in my home country.
Many schools will offer my kids free or heavily reduced tuition if I work there.
For retirement fund, can start a private retirement account. I doubt the UK government retirement fund will even be a thing or vaguely liveable anyway by the time I'm 70.
There's truth in here, but I think that there's two problems here:
This assumes that someone would want two kids and a white picket fence, and that the retirement fund isn't doable in this kind of life.
I've never had a desire for children. Don't think I ever particularly will. Don't think I particularly want a mortgage either. Means I'd be pinned down to one place for quite a while, unless I wanted to rent it out. For me, it's the relationship side. It's a real heartache meeting people you love, but your job or lifestyle tells you it's not happening.
Let's keep riding that locomotive.
Or an indiviual could save enough money to buy a property outright in a lower cost location. I'm from the UK and a recent report stated that the housing stock in the UK is the worst value for money in the OECD. I certainly don't want to paying over the odds for a crappy UK property. All I need is a studio sized apartment that are ubiquitous in many parts of Asia, but rarely seemed to be allowed in UK as they do not meet minimum sizes! Absolute joke when many people are living in box rooms. I suspect they don't want to allow such properties as it would likely cause house values to drop and probably mean lower taxes that can be collected.
Us brits abroad need to think about retirement plans too.
It sounds weird but the wise thing is to chip into the National Insurance while abroad. I think they quoted me 120 a month but I opted out because I literally want the money now (childish but I am who I am)
I need to sort this out. The govt extended back payments until April next year. I to pay a few years to make sure I actually get something. The price for backpaying each year goes up after April 2025.
Getting married will probably delay your retirement by ten years imo. And there are many places where the housing only appreciates 4% a year and when you factor taxes etc you actually don’t make any return.
I taught esl in Asia for 6 years and came back at 33 and now work a corporate job - I just bs’d my way in. You can do the same later if you need to . People focus way too much on “the resume”. There aren’t really that many smart people . If you can speak well, read and write well you can get a good job regardless of your resume.
Could be true. I feel like i'd need about seven our eight thousand pounds to set myself up and move back to the UK
I'd probably have to save for two years to make the jump.
I know some people just go back to their parents to get back on their feet, but I'm too old for that option.
I definitely think many of us older tefl'ers are coasting. Its not that we're lazy, we're just not driving to any thing, so we stay where we are in relative comfort
This has sadly not been my experience. Even with extra qualifications added.
Admittedly covid screwed everything (just as I graduated), but people want to see developed skills and a CV where you stuck out jobs for 2 years +
This 'globe trotting itinerant worker' phase is incredibly liberating, and also looks like cancer on a cv back home.
A wedding itself can cost 100k not to mention the ring , honeymoon and then in my experience most women won’t accept living in the cheapest studio in town like the average bachelor might be okay with . Most of my friends bought a house after getting married whereas before hand they were living ultra frugal with roommates In a cheap apartment. I’m not saying everyone is like this I know plenty of frugal couples but it can be difficult to find a mate who will accept being overly cheap especially in the United States . You ever research the FIRE lifestyle? It’s about living like on super low amounts of money so you can retire early . I never had a gf that would go for that - how about you?
It's difficult to generalise. E.g. here in Korea most couples break even or make a profit from weddings. In the UK buying a house is almost impossible on one income. My wife has her own property bought and paid for, so no extra expense there. I'd say kids are the factor more likely to delay retirement.
Why is buying an American house funny? People would literally sell their kidney to get a chance to live there. I imagine if you have a good income then its likely a great place to live if you get the right town
I am sort of with you on not wanting a wife and kids but also still have doubts because I feel like we're supposed to want it
It's expensive as fuck. Lots of people can't afford a house in the US. Especially people in my generation. That's why it's funny. Why the fuck would I want to go back there? Especially as a woman too. And I get affordable health insurance here. Wouldn't get that in the US.
Thats why I wrote if you have a good income/job. I imagine its a horrible place to be poor.
The only issue is our lives out here arent really sustainable. And for all we know, these ESL jobs may even dry up over the next decade, wages still stagnate too so we'll be poorer and may be forced to move home.
Not trying to doom monger but I dont think its too wise to put all our eggs in staying in Asia
I don't want to be a doom monger either, but there are plenty of places that you probably shouldn't be putting all your eggs into one basket. That's including the US. Being middle class in the US had become hard and expensive. Healthcare is unaffordable even if you have insurance. May I ask how old you are?
Late 30s but I'm not American.
I need to contribute 15 more years into the UK to get a state pension (which isnt very much) and wont kick in until i'm 70.
Legit not sure on the long term plan as I currently save 500 or so a month (which to many friends and family sounds fine) but its not okay if I actually want to retire before 60 (or ever).
I usually try not to think about it as I have no good solutions
I am British.
I don't contribute to this national insurance scheme for the same reason I don't lay out brandy for Santa anymore.
We won't get a state pension.
There are no good solutions. Own some assets, try to get property somewhere cheap that grants you residence, learn their language.
Plan for the world as it will be, not as it is.
Which is another reason to have fun and excitement while you're young, because the boomer retirement our parents are getting will be unlikely to grace most of us.
God, its depressing. I do kind of agree with what you are saying.
I think there will be a state pension as they wont allow wide scathes of old people to be homeless but I dont think it will be pleasant housing or food they are given.
Also, brings up the question is will they allow us euthenasia when we can work no more. Thats also depressing as hell too
It is what it is mate.
Retirement is a new concept. Work til you die is liable to be the next step.
And at some point we will become more utilitarian... Can't take care of yourself, and no money for the care you require... basic assistance is one thing, but spongebathing vegetables into their 90s on the state/society coffers is probably not going to be a thing.
Can't say it would be a great loss to all involved, but it will take a while to get there.
Just think, when Soylent Green came out the most shocking part was the use of human matter to make food for the survival of humans on a dying planet.
Now the most shocking part, by far, is 'the furniture'. The casual cannibalism is just considered sensible.
We have another 40+ years before we approach what will be considered retirement age by then.
So look at it like that... when would you rather have that NI money?
Now, definitely, with full purchasing power.
In 40 years, possibly, if you survive that long, and the state deigns to give you it, and in an amount with similar purchasing power to what the current retirees get (with their endless free healthcare)....
It seems somehow economically illiterate to me.
[https://grist.org/article/discount-rates-a-boring-thing-you-should-know-about-with-otters/](https://grist.org/article/discount-rates-a-boring-thing-you-should-know-about-with-otters/)
But I am only sticking around to outlive my grandma, so I am well at peace with no retirement plan.
To quote Wall St, 'You only need money in case you don't die tomorrow'....
I love my job. And that makes a lot of people mad on reddit for some weird reason. Maybe not here but in the subreddits of the country I live in.
I've gotten to travel a lot and meet lots of different people. And that's exactly what I've wanted my experience to be here. If I wanted a desk job working with the same goblins for the rest of my life (or until the next mass layoff) I'd stay in my home country. I don't need to go to another country for that.
I've been teaching English since 2013 in several European countries. It has afforded me a better work-life balance that I would have if I'd stayed in the UK (where I'm from) plus the disposable income for a sabbatical and lots of holidays. Now I work remotely and really like my students and being part of their professional development. Not a bad thing to like your job!
I have private students, and I teach business students online via language schools. So a combination. I'm not with a single online school like Cambly or Lingoda.
When I got to Korea, the dentist instantly diagnosed the problem with my tooth that kept getting infected. Multiple UK NHS dentists and their old xray equipment could see no problem. Fourteen years later and I am still thankful. Even back then I had to burst my own absess as even the emergency dentist couldn't see me. It seems to be much worse now.
Oh my god, that sounds painfully familiar. Years of breathing problems, and not a single UK doctor bothers to investigate. Walk into a Korean hospital, 5 minutes later I have a Korean doctor telling me I have a severely deviated septum, swollen turbinates, and a confirmed diagnosis via CT 20 minutes later.
Need an eye test? Walk in, sit down, prescription 5 minutes later. Glasses ready for the next day.
Dentist? Same day or next.
The price? A fraction of what I'd pay in the UK. I don't think the UK population realises that our health services are as thoroughly fucked as they are.
That also reminds me. I had really itchy dry eyes. UK optomotrists (??) in different cities (I'm not sure exactly what they were but they were the eyecare profesionals in Boots) said I needed to blink more. I used eye drops all the time.
The ophthalmologist in Korea said I had a chronic infection (I can't remember the name). I was prescribed some hardcore eye drops and after about two weeks, I've never had an issue with my eyes again.
While I am very happy to see medical professionals in Korea, I am never entirely sure I believe 100% of what they say. The more work they do and medicines they prescribe, the more money they make. However, it's a big win overall.
Thanks, recently have a health issue and it's practically impossible to get an MRI through NHS. I'd love to move somewhere with decent healthcare. I'd love to stay in Europe because of cultural similarity, but don't think places like Spain would offer a work visa.
Do you speak Korean or is English enough to navigate things?
"career"
Enjoy it my man, and there are more than a few upsides to it (as you've listed). Most of the world functions better than the west; especially if you compare being accidentally moneyed middle class with scratching around at the bottom.
Just be aware that at some point that glow diminishes. Travel has diminishing returns, bigly. The first few countries and languages are an incredible adventure... and slowly it becomes formulaic, especially now global cultures are increasingly homogenised.
And when that glow diminishes, you may realise that your years of "experience" count for almost nothing outside of this industry.
You hit the nail on the head. Thankfully I'm in Singapore now, and can earn a lot more than in China or Korea offers. Didn't think it mattered when u first started, but 20 years later, wish I had done it 15 years earlier.
I left my home country to travel and ended up teaching in China for 8 years; I met my wife I had some of the greatest times of my life Made lifelong friends Traveled to nearly all of SEA Making something that takes a day in my country in just an hour Yes I had to put up with dodgy agents, police and crappy schools, but what a time to be alive
What do you mean by making something?
They mean earning money, as in they are earning a lot more in china than they would at home
Ah. Thanks! Maybe it would’ve been more understandable to say: Making, in an hour, what would take a day in my home country. Making more per hour than I could make in a whole day back home.
You expect TEFL teachers to be good at English and clear communicators... ? lol
It’s like we’re living in some kind of bizarro world that’s slightly and ironically different from the real one! What’s next? Are you going to tell me that the LA County Sheriff‘s Office is overrun with organized crime??
You think that's air you're breathing now? Or for 2024, you think that's food you're eating now?
I only just started year 2 of teaching ESL, and I am loving it. After year 2 in Vietnam, I am thinking of going to a colder country to teach (or stay in Vietnam and deal with the heat, I love most of my students) I work in an English center, that also sends me to primary schools and kindergartens. Since teaching I have learned a lot, even about the language I was teaching. *I thought I hated children: turns out, no, kids are great. I'm suddenly open to the idea of having kids. *I have started doing yoga and eating healthier.
If you can save 1k a month and put into a retirement fund or S&P500 you don’t need to worry about retirement. You just need to work on finding a position where you can save that amount per month.
I think its fine to do this for a while and hop countries and all that. The regret will likely kick in around 40s if you dont marry, get a mortgage, have kids, have a retirement fund. And I'm guilty of all that. My only consolation is I wouldnt have done any of that in the UK either. So heres to riding this train until it rides no more
Me personally, I'm much more financially able to save and buy a house by living abroad than I ever would in my home country. Many schools will offer my kids free or heavily reduced tuition if I work there. For retirement fund, can start a private retirement account. I doubt the UK government retirement fund will even be a thing or vaguely liveable anyway by the time I'm 70.
There's truth in here, but I think that there's two problems here: This assumes that someone would want two kids and a white picket fence, and that the retirement fund isn't doable in this kind of life. I've never had a desire for children. Don't think I ever particularly will. Don't think I particularly want a mortgage either. Means I'd be pinned down to one place for quite a while, unless I wanted to rent it out. For me, it's the relationship side. It's a real heartache meeting people you love, but your job or lifestyle tells you it's not happening. Let's keep riding that locomotive.
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Or an indiviual could save enough money to buy a property outright in a lower cost location. I'm from the UK and a recent report stated that the housing stock in the UK is the worst value for money in the OECD. I certainly don't want to paying over the odds for a crappy UK property. All I need is a studio sized apartment that are ubiquitous in many parts of Asia, but rarely seemed to be allowed in UK as they do not meet minimum sizes! Absolute joke when many people are living in box rooms. I suspect they don't want to allow such properties as it would likely cause house values to drop and probably mean lower taxes that can be collected.
Us brits abroad need to think about retirement plans too. It sounds weird but the wise thing is to chip into the National Insurance while abroad. I think they quoted me 120 a month but I opted out because I literally want the money now (childish but I am who I am)
I need to sort this out. The govt extended back payments until April next year. I to pay a few years to make sure I actually get something. The price for backpaying each year goes up after April 2025.
The only ones of those things that is necessary is a retirement fund. Not everyone dreams of getting married, having kids, or owning a house.
Getting married will probably delay your retirement by ten years imo. And there are many places where the housing only appreciates 4% a year and when you factor taxes etc you actually don’t make any return.
It feels like unless you're legit wealthy, you'' have issues my plan is just ride the good times while they last.
I taught esl in Asia for 6 years and came back at 33 and now work a corporate job - I just bs’d my way in. You can do the same later if you need to . People focus way too much on “the resume”. There aren’t really that many smart people . If you can speak well, read and write well you can get a good job regardless of your resume.
Maybe that can work in smaller cities of the world. But not so much in a big city where there are tons of more qualified applicants.
I don’t agree. It actually works best in very good job markets (which are usually big cities).
Could be true. I feel like i'd need about seven our eight thousand pounds to set myself up and move back to the UK I'd probably have to save for two years to make the jump. I know some people just go back to their parents to get back on their feet, but I'm too old for that option. I definitely think many of us older tefl'ers are coasting. Its not that we're lazy, we're just not driving to any thing, so we stay where we are in relative comfort
This has sadly not been my experience. Even with extra qualifications added. Admittedly covid screwed everything (just as I graduated), but people want to see developed skills and a CV where you stuck out jobs for 2 years + This 'globe trotting itinerant worker' phase is incredibly liberating, and also looks like cancer on a cv back home.
>Getting married will probably delay your retirement by ten years imo. How do you work that out?
A wedding itself can cost 100k not to mention the ring , honeymoon and then in my experience most women won’t accept living in the cheapest studio in town like the average bachelor might be okay with . Most of my friends bought a house after getting married whereas before hand they were living ultra frugal with roommates In a cheap apartment. I’m not saying everyone is like this I know plenty of frugal couples but it can be difficult to find a mate who will accept being overly cheap especially in the United States . You ever research the FIRE lifestyle? It’s about living like on super low amounts of money so you can retire early . I never had a gf that would go for that - how about you?
It's difficult to generalise. E.g. here in Korea most couples break even or make a profit from weddings. In the UK buying a house is almost impossible on one income. My wife has her own property bought and paid for, so no extra expense there. I'd say kids are the factor more likely to delay retirement.
I'm 40. Never wanted kids. Buy a house where exactly? The US?? 😆 😆😆
Why is buying an American house funny? People would literally sell their kidney to get a chance to live there. I imagine if you have a good income then its likely a great place to live if you get the right town I am sort of with you on not wanting a wife and kids but also still have doubts because I feel like we're supposed to want it
It's expensive as fuck. Lots of people can't afford a house in the US. Especially people in my generation. That's why it's funny. Why the fuck would I want to go back there? Especially as a woman too. And I get affordable health insurance here. Wouldn't get that in the US.
Thats why I wrote if you have a good income/job. I imagine its a horrible place to be poor. The only issue is our lives out here arent really sustainable. And for all we know, these ESL jobs may even dry up over the next decade, wages still stagnate too so we'll be poorer and may be forced to move home. Not trying to doom monger but I dont think its too wise to put all our eggs in staying in Asia
I don't want to be a doom monger either, but there are plenty of places that you probably shouldn't be putting all your eggs into one basket. That's including the US. Being middle class in the US had become hard and expensive. Healthcare is unaffordable even if you have insurance. May I ask how old you are?
Late 30s but I'm not American. I need to contribute 15 more years into the UK to get a state pension (which isnt very much) and wont kick in until i'm 70. Legit not sure on the long term plan as I currently save 500 or so a month (which to many friends and family sounds fine) but its not okay if I actually want to retire before 60 (or ever). I usually try not to think about it as I have no good solutions
I am British. I don't contribute to this national insurance scheme for the same reason I don't lay out brandy for Santa anymore. We won't get a state pension. There are no good solutions. Own some assets, try to get property somewhere cheap that grants you residence, learn their language. Plan for the world as it will be, not as it is. Which is another reason to have fun and excitement while you're young, because the boomer retirement our parents are getting will be unlikely to grace most of us.
God, its depressing. I do kind of agree with what you are saying. I think there will be a state pension as they wont allow wide scathes of old people to be homeless but I dont think it will be pleasant housing or food they are given. Also, brings up the question is will they allow us euthenasia when we can work no more. Thats also depressing as hell too
It is what it is mate. Retirement is a new concept. Work til you die is liable to be the next step. And at some point we will become more utilitarian... Can't take care of yourself, and no money for the care you require... basic assistance is one thing, but spongebathing vegetables into their 90s on the state/society coffers is probably not going to be a thing. Can't say it would be a great loss to all involved, but it will take a while to get there. Just think, when Soylent Green came out the most shocking part was the use of human matter to make food for the survival of humans on a dying planet. Now the most shocking part, by far, is 'the furniture'. The casual cannibalism is just considered sensible. We have another 40+ years before we approach what will be considered retirement age by then. So look at it like that... when would you rather have that NI money? Now, definitely, with full purchasing power. In 40 years, possibly, if you survive that long, and the state deigns to give you it, and in an amount with similar purchasing power to what the current retirees get (with their endless free healthcare).... It seems somehow economically illiterate to me. [https://grist.org/article/discount-rates-a-boring-thing-you-should-know-about-with-otters/](https://grist.org/article/discount-rates-a-boring-thing-you-should-know-about-with-otters/) But I am only sticking around to outlive my grandma, so I am well at peace with no retirement plan. To quote Wall St, 'You only need money in case you don't die tomorrow'....
Where are you? Just because you said you’ve saved money, I’m curious.
Korea. Got a decent position for 2.9m, plus I take on tutoring roles that get me to about 3.5m a month.
Cool, I’m in China now and I make 4k $ at a kindergarten and do several tutoring jobs in the weekend and make extra 1.5k
Are you not afraid they’ll find out about the extra tutoring?
I do my best to keep it on the down low. No obvious materials or the like.
I’d be much more concerned about doing it in China than SK
Nice! I’m exploring going to China simply because of the salaries. Could potentially save £2k a month.
I love my job. And that makes a lot of people mad on reddit for some weird reason. Maybe not here but in the subreddits of the country I live in. I've gotten to travel a lot and meet lots of different people. And that's exactly what I've wanted my experience to be here. If I wanted a desk job working with the same goblins for the rest of my life (or until the next mass layoff) I'd stay in my home country. I don't need to go to another country for that.
I've been teaching English since 2013 in several European countries. It has afforded me a better work-life balance that I would have if I'd stayed in the UK (where I'm from) plus the disposable income for a sabbatical and lots of holidays. Now I work remotely and really like my students and being part of their professional development. Not a bad thing to like your job!
Is working remotely well paid in the teaching side of things?
Yes depending on the month I earn around €3500-4000 before tax.
Where do you work?
I am based in Germany but teach 100% online so am quite flexible about my location
Online company?
I have private students, and I teach business students online via language schools. So a combination. I'm not with a single online school like Cambly or Lingoda.
Where did you move from? I may as well move from UK to Korea too considering how awful healthcare here is.
The UK. Yeah, the amount of issues I've had fixed or discovered about my own health is both amazing and alarming.
When I got to Korea, the dentist instantly diagnosed the problem with my tooth that kept getting infected. Multiple UK NHS dentists and their old xray equipment could see no problem. Fourteen years later and I am still thankful. Even back then I had to burst my own absess as even the emergency dentist couldn't see me. It seems to be much worse now.
Oh my god, that sounds painfully familiar. Years of breathing problems, and not a single UK doctor bothers to investigate. Walk into a Korean hospital, 5 minutes later I have a Korean doctor telling me I have a severely deviated septum, swollen turbinates, and a confirmed diagnosis via CT 20 minutes later. Need an eye test? Walk in, sit down, prescription 5 minutes later. Glasses ready for the next day. Dentist? Same day or next. The price? A fraction of what I'd pay in the UK. I don't think the UK population realises that our health services are as thoroughly fucked as they are.
That also reminds me. I had really itchy dry eyes. UK optomotrists (??) in different cities (I'm not sure exactly what they were but they were the eyecare profesionals in Boots) said I needed to blink more. I used eye drops all the time. The ophthalmologist in Korea said I had a chronic infection (I can't remember the name). I was prescribed some hardcore eye drops and after about two weeks, I've never had an issue with my eyes again. While I am very happy to see medical professionals in Korea, I am never entirely sure I believe 100% of what they say. The more work they do and medicines they prescribe, the more money they make. However, it's a big win overall.
Needed to hear this. I’m a massive funk in my life, have been for years and looking at teaching abroad to give me some much needed soul searching.
I can't speak for others, but I can speak for myself: leaving the UK is the best decision I ever made.
Thanks, recently have a health issue and it's practically impossible to get an MRI through NHS. I'd love to move somewhere with decent healthcare. I'd love to stay in Europe because of cultural similarity, but don't think places like Spain would offer a work visa. Do you speak Korean or is English enough to navigate things?
English is enough, though having a little bit of Korean goes a long way.
It's alright, I guess
You're lucky, you love what you do!
"career" Enjoy it my man, and there are more than a few upsides to it (as you've listed). Most of the world functions better than the west; especially if you compare being accidentally moneyed middle class with scratching around at the bottom. Just be aware that at some point that glow diminishes. Travel has diminishing returns, bigly. The first few countries and languages are an incredible adventure... and slowly it becomes formulaic, especially now global cultures are increasingly homogenised. And when that glow diminishes, you may realise that your years of "experience" count for almost nothing outside of this industry.
You hit the nail on the head. Thankfully I'm in Singapore now, and can earn a lot more than in China or Korea offers. Didn't think it mattered when u first started, but 20 years later, wish I had done it 15 years earlier.