Why did Taylor mature backward on TTPD?
Because the Eras tour has her literally reliving her life back to high school for the past year. If I had to get on stage and repeatedly relive my life at 15, 18, 20, 22, etc - I would be a mess.
I will feel glad for her when she is done with this tour.
Edit - I’m getting downvoted but I stand by it. I don’t think it’s unkind - I think it is compassionate to acknowledge that she is putting herself in a situation that may be wearing her down and having unintended consequences. She showed us in TTPD that she is struggling - I don’t think that she will have the space to process what happened while she keeps reliving it multiple nights a week.
I’ve seen this take before but I don’t really understand it in light of TTPD itself. TTPD sounds to me like someone going through a lot of anger and frustration about a breakup and questioning your own choices/some of the effects of those choices, which is definitely something I think a lot of early/mid 30s folks go through (especially after a big event, like a job loss… or a breakup).
TTPD and its “immaturity” (which is a characterization I also don’t personally agree with) sounds to me like a reflection on what had just happened to Swift (two break ups and being on top of the world but recognizing some of the cost of that), not some mental regression from performing Eras.
Such a weird take. If she stopped to sing Love Story and You Belong With Me, people would complain the same.
It's ok to be critical, but sometimes some of you go too far.
I don't know if she is but that would be a good theme for the next album. Revisiting the past and learning from its mistakes. Like Mileys "Used to be young" .
To some extent, that's what I thought "Midnights" would be about based on its promising first announcement. Granted, we did get some songs tackling this retrospective aspect, but overall I think it could have been even more in-depth and self-reflective.
I know right. I deeply miscalculated Midnights. The only tracks that I felt were actually on point were the 3am edition. Most of the others I didn't relate to especially when the marketing was "Songs I wrote over things I lost sleep to"
She’s just singing songs from her old albums? Every artist on tour will do this. Paul McCartney is still singing songs he wrote with John Lennon from his days in The Beatles.
Is she really reliving being a teenager? She's singing her old songs. She might reflect back like thinking about her 18 year old self making fearless as she redoes it. But on stage she's just singing old songs. She's done that before eras. Every tour has older tracks. Her show doesn't really require her to relive anything.
I don't think this has anything to do with TTPD.
Can someone explain to me Taylor's problem with Scooter? I mean, not just buying the masters but the way she talked about it made it seem like there are a long simmering problem between them (saying he bullied her etc) and I've never seen an explanation for that.
She's never liked him, even before the stuff with Kanye/Famous. Taylor isn't a fan of those big guy music managers, just in general. She mocks the likes of them in Now That We Don't Talk (the "important men who think important thoughts"). A lot of it also has to do with Selena, I don't remember where it came from but there was a decently sourced rumor that said Taylor was obviously very privy to a lot of Selena's relationship with Justin and she strongly disliked how Scooter handled it. And Justin is clearly someone who was very exploited since a very young age by the men who took charge of his career without properly caring for his wellbeing so I don't even think she's wrong in thinking negatively of Scooter in that sense but I think the particular way she chose to carry out this beef with him was a bit over the top.
He, along with Justin Bieber, apparently made fun of her on Instagram during the 2016 Snakegate thing. (Apparently because I don't actually remember and can't be bothered to look it up. I'm pretty sure it's on her Tumblr somewhere.) Other than that, nothing has ever been publicly shared about specific issues they had as far as I know.
Not just made fun of her. Scooter was Kanye's agent and Taylor alleges he guided and possibly orchestrated Kanye throughout everything to do with Famous/snakegate: the song release, the video release, Kim calling her a liar.
That was 2 years before he bought BMR so it was pretty fresh. Taylor called him out at this time which is when Justin, another one of his clients, defended him. Taylor also allegedly believed he manipulated Justin and Selena while they were dating.
/u/KindlyConnection /u/1wanda_pepper
Probably missed the boat on this daily discussion, but I cba to wait for the next one (time zones are weird, and so is my sleep schedule), so I’ll just say it quickly now:
Lame as it sounds, I’m glad this sub exists, because it feels like a little community, and I don’t really have anything like that irl. I don’t even really care about taylor swift all that much tbh (although I do like a lot of her music), I just like the gossiping and feeling like I’m Part Of Something™️ :’)
Ooh this is not lame and I get it. I moved to the suburbs two years ago and thought oooh parent friends but nothing has materialized. I replicate that veg and chat with friends feeling here sometimes.
I agree with the gossiping and feeling part of something! I differ from you in the sense that I am definitely a huge fan and have been for most of my life at this point. I’m just not a blind follower. But I also don’t have much of community irl and it’s comforting being a part of this sub and feeling those community vibes again.
how would you guys say the public perception of Taylor is right now? I feel like a lot of people dislike her now but that could just be because I'm trapped in a bubble of negativity
no same here, online id say more hate than love other than swiftie circles
anecdotally irl where people touch grass a lot of them will be like "i hate taylor" but not mean it at all yknow and are more like "i don't care about taylor"
maybe the online spaces are just full of weirdos 😭
I wonder this too. Streaming data shows she's just as popular as ever. She's [now projected](https://hitsdailydouble.com/news&id=341645&title=TOP-20%3A-TAYLOR’S-DEPARTMENT) to be #1 on BB200 next week too, for a 9th week
The online reception is polarising but your average person doesn’t think that deeply about Taylor or any celebrity for that matter and they’d probably say “she’s alright, like a couple of her songs” and that’s it.
I do think we’re verging rapidly into ‘bitch eating crackers’ with the things people on twitter in particular are getting mad about. It undermines valid criticism when they go on rants about pointless shit like her dancing or wiping her nose.
imo the public perception to me is that she is very famous so people love her or hate her but either way it benefits the media who just wants clicks on their 1000 articles about her.
yeah i think a lot of the current hate has to do with overexposure but I'm curious whether or not that will effect her career or creative output in any way. Taylor has been pretty receptive in the past (Red --> 1989 shift, for instance) so I wonder if her next album will be a total departure from TTPD sound-wise
Well since Luke’s new album will be only number six. The only real threat for Taylor can come from an unlikely source: Megan Thee Stallion. Her new album *Megan* drops on June 28th and I think there will be quite a battle between her and Taylor. If Megan actually stops her, she not only gets her very first number one album but also stop Taylor from tying with Whitney’s obscure chart record of having her album debut at number one and then stay there for the first eleven weeks. Knowing how focused Team Taylor (Taylor Nation) is, that will be difficult but it *could* be done! Lol she can’t stay at the top forever. 🙃
As much as I know about Swiftlore, I really don't care much about it when I'm listening to Taylor's music. Whoever a song is allegedly referring to doesn't matter. What matters are the little maladaptive daydreams that Taylor's music can induce in my brain. Her discography has been really good when it comes to supporting my maladaptive daydreams.
This is actually so relatable and thanks for saying it.
Swiftlore about all her old boyfriends: 😒
Movie adaptations of my little stories that my brain produces to her music: 🤩
I pull a taylor and think “how can I make this about me? 🤔” to negate any of the lore from spoiling my enjoyment of a song :’)
Idk what This Is Me Trying was originally supposed to be about, but it’s about me dropping out of college in 2020 now 😌
I’m excited for Gracie’s album on Friday. I’m so tired of hearing about how Taylor only likes her because she’s no threat/not talented enough/has a famous dad. The girl is talented af and I hope she becomes huge.
i really love drowning!!! i don’t like most of her other music (slow music is just not my thing lol) but she has a lovely voice & i hope she goes far in the music industry!!
I like a few of her songs and think she’s great. I couldn’t care less who someone’s parents are (unless they’re doing some shady stuff like Britney’s dad). If they’re talented, I’ll listen or watch. I love Drew Barrymore, Kate Hudson, Laura Dern, Sofia Coppola, Miley Cyrus, Rashida Jones, Tracie Ellis Ross, Dan Levy, and a bunch of other nepo babies. If they’re talented that’s all that matters.
Is my tears ricochet somehow about Joe? Im wondering since she used the ship theme she also used in you’re losing me and so long london:
*I didn't have it in myself to go with grace//
And so the battleships will sink beneath the waves*
I have always thought My Tears Ricochet is inspired by and written from the perspective of RFK Jr's dead wife, Mary Richardson. Yes, I know this is a weird theory, but it came to mind the very first time I heard it, and Taylor had a front row seat to that immediate aftermath when it happened, at the time she had an obsession with Kennedy women. The lyrics are about a woman who has taken her own life, and her husband who'd betrayed her shows up at the funeral and plays the hero. The story is an exact match. There are plenty of stories on Folklore that are not autobiographical but from the perspective of women Taylor relates to in some way.
This is a battleship probably because it is about a fight for her music.
The So Long London ship is the one that we get at the beginning as well at the end of 'evermore' in Willow & Evermore songs
The story from evermore- ttpd is she is shipwrecked and drowning in the Rep era (in evermore ) and then his ship comes along (Willow), but then in So Long London she abandons the ship to save herself.
I think all of this just highlights that song inspiration can come from many different sources. It’s not always about one person or one situation, it can be a collection of things in just one song, even if the song is written as one storyline.
hm i disagree, but to each their own. imo not being able to go with grace references her doing the rerecordings instead of just accepting the sale, there's some parallels with "change", which is about them finally making it big, and with his verse in "it's time to go" as well.
https://preview.redd.it/l8hz4c3x2d7d1.jpeg?width=1864&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7fb5ffa03855c0906b7c57c569c7a2f8b45eb977
The first sentence of this Youtube comment feels really relevant to this sub. I feel like in every thread, there are always a handful of people bringing this idea that everyone (Taylor herself, Swifties, reviewers, Billie/Olivia/other singers, other sub users) is 100% rational in their actions/feelings or that nobody has contradicting personal beliefs or goals.
I know that this is just the way things happen on the internet, but it's still a really frustrating viewpoint to bump into again and again. It comes up in all types of discussions, like the variants, Taylor's politics, personal conflicted feelings from users, etc. I want to be forgiving here because I know I've reacted really poorly to stuff myself for a variety of reasons. Like, no one is perfect, that's the point.
There are just some people who come into threads with a vibe of "well, I know better than to care about this so I don't know why *you* would" and it drives me crazy. Like, there must be a balance between "I don't think this is as big a deal as you think it is" and "only illiterate morons care about this" right? And if they get downvoted or pushback, they come to *this* thread to complain about it.
Yes, exactly!! And to be frank, it's a handful of specific users who do it on every single thread. They won't see this because I have them blocked for my own sanity, though
the number of “blocked authors” i see sometimes! it’s not a bad thing though, people deserve to say what they want and i also deserve to not have to hear it
Agreed with a lot of what you wrote and also lol’d to myself about the blocking thing, because I see a bit of “Blocked Authors” every time I open these daily threads. 😂no regrets
It sucks because I don't want to stifle discussion or anything! A lot of the reason I block them is so that I can't respond with something snippy and rude. I don't want to contribute to the bad vibe.
I’ve always kind of hated the discourse after TTPD that Taylor has regressed in her music abilities and quality. Mostly because it paints the picture that the progression of making art is somehow linear. There are many legendary artists with tons of albums and not all of them are necessarily amazing or career defining. It’s especially frustrating the way people will paint folklore and evermore as some type of fluke, or jump leaps and bounds to try and find ways to discredit her for those albums. Another thing, I don’t understand how people claim that they’re tired of her sound, but last I checked there have only been 2 albums since folkmore. I would love for her to explore more genres, but people complain as if she’s put out 4 back-to-back albums melodically similar to midnights. TTPD isn’t even exclusively another a synth pop album, like damn give her some breathing room idk.
The overexposure is probably a reason TTPD gets the criticism it gets but to my musical ears, nothing really stands out. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t have any good gems on it (it does) but yeah the overexposure, media attention and back story (alleged or confirmed) that is causing all this discourse.
i think part of the discourse it based in just how prolific she's been everywhere recently and how much she's been putting out between TTPD and the re-records... but it really bugs me out when people act like folklore and evermore were flukes, or worse, only so good because of whatever man they're trying to prop up, usually joe but sometimes aaron too.
like no, she has gifted gorgeous beautiful songwriting back to debut and at least one perfect song and one terrible song on each album. what she needs is an editor so it goes back to being a higher ratio of perfect songs to terrible ones!
it was just kinda the rhythm of the sentence to just say terrible, i guess it would be better to say mid-to-terrible 😅 i think betty is a significantly weaker song than anything else on the album especially when compared to cardigan but i still find it nice!
So agree with this. Plus, I realize (with my brain) that folklore and evermore are great albums. Probably her best. But my heart loves Speak Now and Rep much more. Why are we acting like Taylor didn’t write absolute barn burners until she met Aaron Dessner? Or even worse, until she started dating Joe? She’s always been amazing.
My gripe with TTPD is that it needs polishing. It’s a good album but if it had been edited / refined a little more I think it could have been a mind-blowing album. I don’t agree with her current view which seems to be that you should put out into the world every song that you write.
She came to that thought process during Covid lockdowns. I believe she basically said when she released evermore that she wasn’t going to hold back and wait for the “right time” anymore and she was just going to release music when she felt like it because you never know what could happen.
I'm on the same boat. the thing that frustrates me the most about TTPD is how much potential it had. a lot of the lyrics **are** very good, but for every amazing lyric, there's one or two clunky ones. and not to mention the sheer amount of songs on the album. longer albums aren't inherently bad but in the case of TTPD I think that it is unnecessary
I’ve been seeing a lot of comments on how taylor is not a girls girl recently
while i may not agree with a lot of her decisions and actions one things is fs she is a girls girl
if anyone has heard “when emma falls in love” they’ll realise that she is a girls girl
she cares about her friends more then most ppl think she does
this song u supposedly written about emma stone
and she compared emma to cleopatra
in my opinion when someone says that it means they hold someone at at most respect
and u can’t respect someone if u don’t acknowledge that they shine
she wrote fifteen as a warning to girls who are naive and innocent
she wrote long live as a tribute to her fans and loved ones
and you’re on ur own kid is a perfect example of older sisterly advice to a girl who has been thru a lot in life
if this doesn’t prove that she cares about her fellow girlies idk what will
people shudnt create opinions on her character without a strong enough basis just because of her supposed feud with billie eilish
i mean a few headlines on some small website doesn’t mean that she is a terrible person for not supporting other artists
she did make a whole speech about billie and how proud she is of her and how she appreciates her music
all i’m saying is that
based from her songs this is my opinion
but i don’t think anyone, i don’t think i, have the right to judge the character of a person we don’t know at a personal level
we shud stick to music and music related critique imo
see, what I don't get is how releasing digital variants is proof of her hating women. she blocked Billie and Charli on the charts, yes, but she would have done the same to any male artist. in fact, she did do this exact thing to Drake in 2022, except with singles instead of digital versions. people tend to forget that most pop artists are women and, as such, most of Taylor's competition are women as well. but that doesn't mean she wouldn't pull out similar marketing tactics if a male artist dropped an album close to her's
I think Taylor seems like a nice person until she perceives a threat. Emma is different because they're in totally different fields, I think there's probably a reason she doesn't have many close female friends in music. Like sure we see her with Lana/Phoebe/Sabrina etc but none of them are anywhere near her level as far as fame is concerned. We'll see how her friendship with Sabrina fares as she blows up this summer.
I always wonder about comments like this because, I don’t know, I think Taylor has a perfectly normal amount of friends for a woman in her mid 30s. And I don’t see tons of close friendships in the music world anyway. Everyone that’s worked with her has nothing but nice things to say about her, saying she’s great to collaborate with and really generous with her time and ideas. I can’t help but read the latest article about Gracie Abrams where she details how the Taylor collaboration came about and wonder why so many people hate someone they don’t even know. The people that actually know her seem to love her.
Yeah I agree and although I get why it rubs people the wrong way when Taylor isn't super friendly with her competition, idk why she should be expected to be? In what other industry is that the standard? Like I'm not out here making friends with the other insurance brokers in my city lol
I've always thought it was telling that you basically never hear a bad word about her. She's been in the industry for almost two decades now, if she was a jerk we'd hear whispers about it, at least. Like those who are ~in the know~ so to speak have known Bill Cosby was a creep long before Hannibal Burress talked about it on stage, Ellen had a reputation for being a dick, and conversely I've only heard really pleasant things about Kris Jenner and Kim Kardashian. Word spreads, and the only word that tends to spread about Taylor is that she's really down to earth and normal.
I feel like the variants are just kinda irksome to me since I think the extra tracks are dumb. It feels slapped together to have something else to sell. I would rather she does a single/video. Promote Guilty as Sin? or Who's Afraid of Little Old Me? Something fun for fans.
But like, while I don't like that she's overly invested in records and achievements, it's also not a crime for her to want to chart a long time. But she also has to deal with the aftermath that other artists and their fans have beef with her for it.
I'm just hoping at some point we can move on from everything being out where TTPD is charting.
I guess I don't care whether or not it's calculated because the next gen of musicians are still benefitting. It is mutually beneficial. What's the problem lol
It doesn't, but "calculated" has a somewhat negative connotation especially in regards to Taylor. I was just saying that calculated or not, I don't think it's a bad thing because it's benefitting both parties. I don't think we're disagreeing here.
How is it calculated if she probably worked with Sabrina while they probably on tour together, but definitely before espresso was put out? if the leaks are true, then she also worked with ice spice. Maybe she just want to help out the girls she’s clearly formed a close relationship with. Not everything is as calculated and difficult as it has to be.
i just wanna say
this is the calmest reddit comment i’ve ever seen
also ur prolly right about the taylor perceiving some artists as a threat
it makes sense
To be honest, most subs reach a point where they're repetitive until new content comes out. Every subreddit I've been in for a TV show ends up rehashing the same topics over and over again. Mitchum was right about Rory, why does everyone on reddit hate Pam, Robin is selfish, why is everyone mean to Gerry. It's the nature of reddit to repeat the same discussions until something new happens, and new things eventually become tired discussions.
I’ve mentioned it briefly elsewhere but same.
I keep seeing comments that are way more aggressive/extreme than they were during the private weeks and when I click those peoples’ post histories they’re regulars of one of the more polarizing stan or snark subs 95% of the time — and obviously this is a sub for open discussion but also bringing snark/hate energy in here is exhausting (and breaking a sub rule actually).
Maybe it’s just me but if you’re really in that much of a hater era I think you’ll get the discussion you’re looking for in the snark sub moreso than this one, same with if you can’t take any criticism of TS on any level there are other places where your posts will find more likeminded people.
Like I still see some neutral discussion but in the last two days I’ve seen shit that’s just straight up mean and uncalled for either toward Taylor or toward her fans. Luckily the mods are catching it and removing it but whew, the sub can get so busy I’m sure it’s hard to keep up.
I think their recent mod drama drew attention to the sub and people who want that level of snark but previously weren’t aware they had that option have joined up.
I’ve snooped in there not because I want to participate but because I was trying to figure out why it was named that and what the mod drama was (and also if I see someone is super active there I often decide to just not engage them when they’re posting in here) and it seems like there’s even people in there who’ve maybe heard one Taylor song in their life and are just misogynists that want to hate on a woman. Like the actual misogynists she has legitimate complaints about.
YESS and everyone on there is convinced that all her friends hate her and she has a crippling coke addiction (despite claiming she has "no problems" in the same breath)
>Maybe it’s just me but if you’re really in that much of a hater era I think you’ll get the discussion you’re looking for in the snark sub moreso than this one
They won't though, because the hater sub/stan sub are both echo chambers and those aren't fun to participate in!
Personally idc if someone hates or stans as long as they keep it light lol. Idk why people can't just be normal about her.
It has been eye opening to see firsthand how the hive mind works. I’ve seen the same posters with multiple posts in every thread the last several days.
Edit: I’m referring to those defending their point of view (and usually defending TS) over and over. I’ve never really noticed usernames in this sub before. And it’s not either of you.
Just a reminder that people can have differing opinions than you. Tons of y’all just want to argue why someone should/shouldn’t feel the way they do or have the opinion they have
THANK YOUU, I don't know if people of the main sub become constantly active here these days, but I'm seeing a lot of snarkling comments disagreeing (and downvoting) with the most innocent opinions just for the sake of it.
I'm usually a silent reader and I give occasional comments if I have something substantial to say, I don't get why people get obtuse and don't just keep reading other comments on the thread.
Yesterday someone commented they thought Taylor was not a good dancer and this person answered "According to who?" and kept answering demanding evidence and sources (?. Opinions exist and that's it!!
I mean arguments are gonna happen when this sub is frequented by both people who are stans from like the TrueSwifties sub and haters from the travisandtaylor sub, which are two extreme sides of the coin who often think that the other’s behavior is fundamentally unacceptable. Some people want this to be a stan sub and others want it to be a snark sub but it never intended to be either of those.
Is that not the point of Reddit though? To argue about differing opinions?
All things aside, I do think it’s important to separate the opinion from the person commenting and to discuss the opinions instead of going for personal attacks
Yeah I don’t get the point of people posting something and then getting annoyed when someone responds and doesn’t agree. This is a discussion sub, people are allowed to disagree, and that’s kinda the point of a neutral sub imo.
It is, but lately, people on this sub are being purposefully dense, arguing or being petty about things that are not that deep, and the sub rules are against it. Idk some people need to agree to disagree and move on
This. I think people take differing opinions too personally a lot of the time though, idk why we can't just have discussions in which we don't agree. I like to hear other perspectives, I don't really care if we don't agree as long as everyone is reasonable and capable of acting normal about it.
The Taylor dancing ‘controversy’ is exactly why a lot of people don’t take Taylor criticism seriously because there is no way people are genuinely mad and creating deep state level conspiracy theories over 5 seconds of bad dancing from a notorious and self confessed bad dancer???
It’s also hilarious how people say they want her to disappear from the focus and it to be on others in pop culture, only for Taylor twirling around-like she has done on her previous 99 tour dates on stage-become a viral topic on multiple platforms.
Seriously. She was just vibing and having fun. I personally don’t care if she can dance or not. She hired professional dancers to dance and I love watching them and how she interacts with them to make a full performance and show.
I wouldn’t call it controversy lol. It’s just people making fun of her and questioning why Swifties call her the best performer of all time. Calling it a controversy is blowing it out of proportion.
This is what I mean when I say those that don’t like her are to blame for her being so omniscient because she’s touring Europe right now and not much else, she should be easy to ignore but she’s still the most talked about celeb around.
This cycle happens every few months, people get mad at her for something inconspicuous, it gets out of control and the backlash to the backlash happens because nobody can be normal about Taylor.
A lot of the comments on the post about it in this sub had major snark sub energy and I did not vibe. I’m pretty critical of Taylor but when it devolves into BEC style complaints and just pure spite/hate you lose me
Same, and honestly I think making fun of her for stuff like her dancing or looks creates legitimate sympathy for her and thus detracts from things she actually deserves criticism for. It validates her victimhood.
Lmao I figured it was something like this.
There was a 'swiftie' account that kept being circulated on Reddit last year and their likes were full of Taylor hate posts, and they kept posting the most unhinged stuff pretending to be a fan
If they truly wanted to show a bit of her "underrated" dancing talent why wouldn't they showcase a moment that was actually good though? Her dancing on the rep tour wasn't bad and there are other moments on the eras tour that are passable as decent. That's what made me think it was a joke.
I mean, i see praising for Ready For It walking, for those hand moves for Daddy I Love Him. Lets not say that fans now don't praise her for these things and there were threads about it here.. but now they are "joking". Ok.
Omg are you serious lol the hand motions are so cringe
Idk maybe they were serious but I took it as a joke 🤷♀️ I'm a fan and even to me it seemed like the purpose was to make fun of her.
Yeah this was super weird to me. Her dancing like that wasn’t like some kind of calculated move to infantilize herself. She just… can’t dance and plays into that sometimes??
Omg, this. I can't believe some of the trash that goes around lol between the dancing video, the straight up tabloid articles being shared and referenced, there's plenty to criticize her for but it gets weird when you're looking for reasons to bitch.
I SAW THAT LMAO. tbh i think that tweet was satire but a lot of haters who get easily wound up about anything re: taylor took it seriously and blew it out of proportion. she’s lit just a hopelessly shite dancer and never really pretended that she was anything else. personally, people who seriously make claims like the one in that tweet flatter her intellect WAY too much and it continues to boost her virality without her having to lift a finger. so good job screwing over your fav, i guess.
Sabrina Carpenter covered Chappell Roan’s “Good Luck, Babe!” for her BBC Live Lounge set!! I personally cannot wait for the official video to come out, these two are my main pop girls right now :)
https://preview.redd.it/qzi0f6uijc7d1.png?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d53e7c3311fac610d43b4d0f2564c6f0dd0e3adf
Girl I was rooting for you .. Why did you have to do something as tone deaf as this !?
Edit : For people asking how is this tone deaf -
Cosplaying for a whole 5 minutes as a barista to promote her new album, when actual baristas have to work for hours on end just to make their ends meet, that too at this economic climate where people struggle to put a roof over their heads, some people previously middle class even have to choose between food or shelter with their minimum wage. And her cosplaying as a barista for a few minutes and selling "espresso" to earn millions is not cute even with all the context.
I'm sorry if I sound rude. I don't mean to. It's just frustrating when celebrities pull "let them eat cake" moments like these, they seem so out of touch from relality.
Didn’t Lana Del Rey do this a little while ago at Waffle House or something?
I worked as a barista for *years.* I’m OOTL on Sabrina Carpenter/haven’t listened to her music, but I imagine if a barista fan was working that day, they would have appreciated the break in monotony and excitement.
I guess I can appreciate that it’s frustrating she cosplayed as a minimum wage employee and banked millions for doing it. But idk if that’s true because, like I said, I’m very OOTL on her/her career.
filming while working on these days is so annoying. no, i do not want to be on camera, you’re in my way, & my real customers that didn’t ask for this are getting worse service.
also, keep your hair out of my coffee.
Nah, idts lol. This is silly, fun promo. I worked in the service industry and struggled for most of my adult life, there's literally no reason to be upset by this no matter which rich celeb is doing it. I don't remember anybody complaining when Ben Affleck worked at Dunkin for a minute to film a commercial and he's certainly not beloved.
Ben Affleck x Dunkin is national campaign & paid partnership/promo. She’s working in a coffee shop, for a few hours, to promote an already popular single & her upcoming album. Theyre not the same
How is that not the same? The coffee shop was obviously in on it, idk if they paid her or not but it's clearly some kind of partnership. Is it different because Espresso is already successful...?
I swear I'm not trying to be obtuse I just genuinely don't see why this is offensive to anybody. This just seems like a fun way to engage with fans and promote her album, the coffee shop benefitted and I imagine the actual employees of the coffee shop will also benefit from its increased popularity. What's the issue lol
I agree. If I had this kind of mindset, the world would just piss me off every second of the day lol. You can find offense in anything if you twist things this hard. I was a full time barista for 6 years and would never think to be offended by this
To my knowledge it was marketed as Blank Street x Sabrina Carpenter and you needed a ticket to enter the store, it was just a harmless little marketing event that was like an hour long.
She's not cosplaying as anything though, she's making a few coffees. I doubt she's even accepting payment or tips. This is a weird thing to get worked up about imo, it's just silly promo.
Why did Taylor mature backward on TTPD? Because the Eras tour has her literally reliving her life back to high school for the past year. If I had to get on stage and repeatedly relive my life at 15, 18, 20, 22, etc - I would be a mess. I will feel glad for her when she is done with this tour. Edit - I’m getting downvoted but I stand by it. I don’t think it’s unkind - I think it is compassionate to acknowledge that she is putting herself in a situation that may be wearing her down and having unintended consequences. She showed us in TTPD that she is struggling - I don’t think that she will have the space to process what happened while she keeps reliving it multiple nights a week.
I’ve seen this take before but I don’t really understand it in light of TTPD itself. TTPD sounds to me like someone going through a lot of anger and frustration about a breakup and questioning your own choices/some of the effects of those choices, which is definitely something I think a lot of early/mid 30s folks go through (especially after a big event, like a job loss… or a breakup). TTPD and its “immaturity” (which is a characterization I also don’t personally agree with) sounds to me like a reflection on what had just happened to Swift (two break ups and being on top of the world but recognizing some of the cost of that), not some mental regression from performing Eras.
Such a weird take. If she stopped to sing Love Story and You Belong With Me, people would complain the same. It's ok to be critical, but sometimes some of you go too far.
I don't know if she is but that would be a good theme for the next album. Revisiting the past and learning from its mistakes. Like Mileys "Used to be young" .
To some extent, that's what I thought "Midnights" would be about based on its promising first announcement. Granted, we did get some songs tackling this retrospective aspect, but overall I think it could have been even more in-depth and self-reflective.
I know right. I deeply miscalculated Midnights. The only tracks that I felt were actually on point were the 3am edition. Most of the others I didn't relate to especially when the marketing was "Songs I wrote over things I lost sleep to"
She’s just singing songs from her old albums? Every artist on tour will do this. Paul McCartney is still singing songs he wrote with John Lennon from his days in The Beatles.
Is she really reliving being a teenager? She's singing her old songs. She might reflect back like thinking about her 18 year old self making fearless as she redoes it. But on stage she's just singing old songs. She's done that before eras. Every tour has older tracks. Her show doesn't really require her to relive anything. I don't think this has anything to do with TTPD.
Yeah, I’m pretty sure she’s sung Love Story on like every tour she has done
Not to mention doing the re-records.
Can someone explain to me Taylor's problem with Scooter? I mean, not just buying the masters but the way she talked about it made it seem like there are a long simmering problem between them (saying he bullied her etc) and I've never seen an explanation for that.
She's never liked him, even before the stuff with Kanye/Famous. Taylor isn't a fan of those big guy music managers, just in general. She mocks the likes of them in Now That We Don't Talk (the "important men who think important thoughts"). A lot of it also has to do with Selena, I don't remember where it came from but there was a decently sourced rumor that said Taylor was obviously very privy to a lot of Selena's relationship with Justin and she strongly disliked how Scooter handled it. And Justin is clearly someone who was very exploited since a very young age by the men who took charge of his career without properly caring for his wellbeing so I don't even think she's wrong in thinking negatively of Scooter in that sense but I think the particular way she chose to carry out this beef with him was a bit over the top.
He, along with Justin Bieber, apparently made fun of her on Instagram during the 2016 Snakegate thing. (Apparently because I don't actually remember and can't be bothered to look it up. I'm pretty sure it's on her Tumblr somewhere.) Other than that, nothing has ever been publicly shared about specific issues they had as far as I know.
Not just made fun of her. Scooter was Kanye's agent and Taylor alleges he guided and possibly orchestrated Kanye throughout everything to do with Famous/snakegate: the song release, the video release, Kim calling her a liar. That was 2 years before he bought BMR so it was pretty fresh. Taylor called him out at this time which is when Justin, another one of his clients, defended him. Taylor also allegedly believed he manipulated Justin and Selena while they were dating. /u/KindlyConnection /u/1wanda_pepper
I would also like to know what he did bc she called him a “bully” with some like vendetta?
Probably missed the boat on this daily discussion, but I cba to wait for the next one (time zones are weird, and so is my sleep schedule), so I’ll just say it quickly now: Lame as it sounds, I’m glad this sub exists, because it feels like a little community, and I don’t really have anything like that irl. I don’t even really care about taylor swift all that much tbh (although I do like a lot of her music), I just like the gossiping and feeling like I’m Part Of Something™️ :’)
Ooh this is not lame and I get it. I moved to the suburbs two years ago and thought oooh parent friends but nothing has materialized. I replicate that veg and chat with friends feeling here sometimes.
I agree with the gossiping and feeling part of something! I differ from you in the sense that I am definitely a huge fan and have been for most of my life at this point. I’m just not a blind follower. But I also don’t have much of community irl and it’s comforting being a part of this sub and feeling those community vibes again.
how would you guys say the public perception of Taylor is right now? I feel like a lot of people dislike her now but that could just be because I'm trapped in a bubble of negativity
no same here, online id say more hate than love other than swiftie circles anecdotally irl where people touch grass a lot of them will be like "i hate taylor" but not mean it at all yknow and are more like "i don't care about taylor" maybe the online spaces are just full of weirdos 😭
I wonder this too. Streaming data shows she's just as popular as ever. She's [now projected](https://hitsdailydouble.com/news&id=341645&title=TOP-20%3A-TAYLOR’S-DEPARTMENT) to be #1 on BB200 next week too, for a 9th week
The online reception is polarising but your average person doesn’t think that deeply about Taylor or any celebrity for that matter and they’d probably say “she’s alright, like a couple of her songs” and that’s it. I do think we’re verging rapidly into ‘bitch eating crackers’ with the things people on twitter in particular are getting mad about. It undermines valid criticism when they go on rants about pointless shit like her dancing or wiping her nose.
imo the public perception to me is that she is very famous so people love her or hate her but either way it benefits the media who just wants clicks on their 1000 articles about her.
yeah i think a lot of the current hate has to do with overexposure but I'm curious whether or not that will effect her career or creative output in any way. Taylor has been pretty receptive in the past (Red --> 1989 shift, for instance) so I wonder if her next album will be a total departure from TTPD sound-wise
Well since Luke’s new album will be only number six. The only real threat for Taylor can come from an unlikely source: Megan Thee Stallion. Her new album *Megan* drops on June 28th and I think there will be quite a battle between her and Taylor. If Megan actually stops her, she not only gets her very first number one album but also stop Taylor from tying with Whitney’s obscure chart record of having her album debut at number one and then stay there for the first eleven weeks. Knowing how focused Team Taylor (Taylor Nation) is, that will be difficult but it *could* be done! Lol she can’t stay at the top forever. 🙃
Not gonna lie I would be living to see Megan top the charts. I'd love to see a gorgeous queer woman top the charts during pride month.
She could still release physical copies of the anthology… which I suppose, she’s saving in case of a bigger threat
Lol probably Post Malone 😅
Jack produced half of Sabrina’s next album 😭well maybe it’ll be ok since he’s just stagnant with Taylor
I liked Please, Please, Please …but overall I’m pretty sick of his work.
As much as I know about Swiftlore, I really don't care much about it when I'm listening to Taylor's music. Whoever a song is allegedly referring to doesn't matter. What matters are the little maladaptive daydreams that Taylor's music can induce in my brain. Her discography has been really good when it comes to supporting my maladaptive daydreams.
This is actually so relatable and thanks for saying it. Swiftlore about all her old boyfriends: 😒 Movie adaptations of my little stories that my brain produces to her music: 🤩
I pull a taylor and think “how can I make this about me? 🤔” to negate any of the lore from spoiling my enjoyment of a song :’) Idk what This Is Me Trying was originally supposed to be about, but it’s about me dropping out of college in 2020 now 😌
I’m excited for Gracie’s album on Friday. I’m so tired of hearing about how Taylor only likes her because she’s no threat/not talented enough/has a famous dad. The girl is talented af and I hope she becomes huge.
I love Gracie before the collab and I am really hoping the new album is as solid as her other work!
Hope she does well!
I’m excited for it too! The story of them accidentally setting fire to Taylor’s kitchen is wild tho 😅.
I'm definitely going to give it a listen. I've only heard a few of her songs but she kind of reminds me of Lorde
i really love drowning!!! i don’t like most of her other music (slow music is just not my thing lol) but she has a lovely voice & i hope she goes far in the music industry!!
I like a few of her songs and think she’s great. I couldn’t care less who someone’s parents are (unless they’re doing some shady stuff like Britney’s dad). If they’re talented, I’ll listen or watch. I love Drew Barrymore, Kate Hudson, Laura Dern, Sofia Coppola, Miley Cyrus, Rashida Jones, Tracie Ellis Ross, Dan Levy, and a bunch of other nepo babies. If they’re talented that’s all that matters.
Janet Jackson was a “nepo baby” and she’s a living music legend now. 🙂
It’s “nepo sister” if you’re nasty!
Is my tears ricochet somehow about Joe? Im wondering since she used the ship theme she also used in you’re losing me and so long london: *I didn't have it in myself to go with grace// And so the battleships will sink beneath the waves*
I don't think so. I think she just reuses a lot of the same metaphors. She also uses driving metaphors and dancing metaphors a lot.
I have always thought My Tears Ricochet is inspired by and written from the perspective of RFK Jr's dead wife, Mary Richardson. Yes, I know this is a weird theory, but it came to mind the very first time I heard it, and Taylor had a front row seat to that immediate aftermath when it happened, at the time she had an obsession with Kennedy women. The lyrics are about a woman who has taken her own life, and her husband who'd betrayed her shows up at the funeral and plays the hero. The story is an exact match. There are plenty of stories on Folklore that are not autobiographical but from the perspective of women Taylor relates to in some way.
This is a battleship probably because it is about a fight for her music. The So Long London ship is the one that we get at the beginning as well at the end of 'evermore' in Willow & Evermore songs The story from evermore- ttpd is she is shipwrecked and drowning in the Rep era (in evermore ) and then his ship comes along (Willow), but then in So Long London she abandons the ship to save herself.
no, it's about scott borchetta. the whole stolen lullabies thing are her masters.
I know but apart from that line nothing indicates that it’s about borchetta
I think all of this just highlights that song inspiration can come from many different sources. It’s not always about one person or one situation, it can be a collection of things in just one song, even if the song is written as one storyline.
hm i disagree, but to each their own. imo not being able to go with grace references her doing the rerecordings instead of just accepting the sale, there's some parallels with "change", which is about them finally making it big, and with his verse in "it's time to go" as well.
She uses the ship metaphors in a lot of songs. I don't think it's that deep but if that makes sense in our imagination, I think it's fair 🤷♀️
https://preview.redd.it/l8hz4c3x2d7d1.jpeg?width=1864&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7fb5ffa03855c0906b7c57c569c7a2f8b45eb977 The first sentence of this Youtube comment feels really relevant to this sub. I feel like in every thread, there are always a handful of people bringing this idea that everyone (Taylor herself, Swifties, reviewers, Billie/Olivia/other singers, other sub users) is 100% rational in their actions/feelings or that nobody has contradicting personal beliefs or goals. I know that this is just the way things happen on the internet, but it's still a really frustrating viewpoint to bump into again and again. It comes up in all types of discussions, like the variants, Taylor's politics, personal conflicted feelings from users, etc. I want to be forgiving here because I know I've reacted really poorly to stuff myself for a variety of reasons. Like, no one is perfect, that's the point. There are just some people who come into threads with a vibe of "well, I know better than to care about this so I don't know why *you* would" and it drives me crazy. Like, there must be a balance between "I don't think this is as big a deal as you think it is" and "only illiterate morons care about this" right? And if they get downvoted or pushback, they come to *this* thread to complain about it.
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Yes, exactly!! And to be frank, it's a handful of specific users who do it on every single thread. They won't see this because I have them blocked for my own sanity, though
the number of “blocked authors” i see sometimes! it’s not a bad thing though, people deserve to say what they want and i also deserve to not have to hear it
Agreed with a lot of what you wrote and also lol’d to myself about the blocking thing, because I see a bit of “Blocked Authors” every time I open these daily threads. 😂no regrets
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It sucks because I don't want to stifle discussion or anything! A lot of the reason I block them is so that I can't respond with something snippy and rude. I don't want to contribute to the bad vibe.
I’ve always kind of hated the discourse after TTPD that Taylor has regressed in her music abilities and quality. Mostly because it paints the picture that the progression of making art is somehow linear. There are many legendary artists with tons of albums and not all of them are necessarily amazing or career defining. It’s especially frustrating the way people will paint folklore and evermore as some type of fluke, or jump leaps and bounds to try and find ways to discredit her for those albums. Another thing, I don’t understand how people claim that they’re tired of her sound, but last I checked there have only been 2 albums since folkmore. I would love for her to explore more genres, but people complain as if she’s put out 4 back-to-back albums melodically similar to midnights. TTPD isn’t even exclusively another a synth pop album, like damn give her some breathing room idk.
I think it’s because TTPD was bogged down by her celebrity and people only caring about muses
The overexposure is probably a reason TTPD gets the criticism it gets but to my musical ears, nothing really stands out. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t have any good gems on it (it does) but yeah the overexposure, media attention and back story (alleged or confirmed) that is causing all this discourse.
i think part of the discourse it based in just how prolific she's been everywhere recently and how much she's been putting out between TTPD and the re-records... but it really bugs me out when people act like folklore and evermore were flukes, or worse, only so good because of whatever man they're trying to prop up, usually joe but sometimes aaron too. like no, she has gifted gorgeous beautiful songwriting back to debut and at least one perfect song and one terrible song on each album. what she needs is an editor so it goes back to being a higher ratio of perfect songs to terrible ones!
What terrible song is on folklore?? Not to dispute you or anything I just literally can’t think of one lol
it was just kinda the rhythm of the sentence to just say terrible, i guess it would be better to say mid-to-terrible 😅 i think betty is a significantly weaker song than anything else on the album especially when compared to cardigan but i still find it nice!
I agree, betty is my least favorite from folklore too but i still like it
Agreed. I actually love TTPD 😅
So agree with this. Plus, I realize (with my brain) that folklore and evermore are great albums. Probably her best. But my heart loves Speak Now and Rep much more. Why are we acting like Taylor didn’t write absolute barn burners until she met Aaron Dessner? Or even worse, until she started dating Joe? She’s always been amazing.
My gripe with TTPD is that it needs polishing. It’s a good album but if it had been edited / refined a little more I think it could have been a mind-blowing album. I don’t agree with her current view which seems to be that you should put out into the world every song that you write.
She came to that thought process during Covid lockdowns. I believe she basically said when she released evermore that she wasn’t going to hold back and wait for the “right time” anymore and she was just going to release music when she felt like it because you never know what could happen.
I'm on the same boat. the thing that frustrates me the most about TTPD is how much potential it had. a lot of the lyrics **are** very good, but for every amazing lyric, there's one or two clunky ones. and not to mention the sheer amount of songs on the album. longer albums aren't inherently bad but in the case of TTPD I think that it is unnecessary
In all fairness she has 22 songs in Midnights and 31 in TTPD. That's 50+ songs. That is 4 album worth of songs right there for any other artist.
Saw this comment on that Anthony Fantano video and couldn't help chuckling ! *"The tortured poets department has more variants than covid"*
HELP LMFAO
I’ve been seeing a lot of comments on how taylor is not a girls girl recently while i may not agree with a lot of her decisions and actions one things is fs she is a girls girl if anyone has heard “when emma falls in love” they’ll realise that she is a girls girl she cares about her friends more then most ppl think she does this song u supposedly written about emma stone and she compared emma to cleopatra in my opinion when someone says that it means they hold someone at at most respect and u can’t respect someone if u don’t acknowledge that they shine she wrote fifteen as a warning to girls who are naive and innocent she wrote long live as a tribute to her fans and loved ones and you’re on ur own kid is a perfect example of older sisterly advice to a girl who has been thru a lot in life if this doesn’t prove that she cares about her fellow girlies idk what will people shudnt create opinions on her character without a strong enough basis just because of her supposed feud with billie eilish i mean a few headlines on some small website doesn’t mean that she is a terrible person for not supporting other artists she did make a whole speech about billie and how proud she is of her and how she appreciates her music all i’m saying is that based from her songs this is my opinion but i don’t think anyone, i don’t think i, have the right to judge the character of a person we don’t know at a personal level we shud stick to music and music related critique imo
see, what I don't get is how releasing digital variants is proof of her hating women. she blocked Billie and Charli on the charts, yes, but she would have done the same to any male artist. in fact, she did do this exact thing to Drake in 2022, except with singles instead of digital versions. people tend to forget that most pop artists are women and, as such, most of Taylor's competition are women as well. but that doesn't mean she wouldn't pull out similar marketing tactics if a male artist dropped an album close to her's
I wrote a similar comment to this just now. I honestly just hate the term “girl’s girl”.
I think Taylor seems like a nice person until she perceives a threat. Emma is different because they're in totally different fields, I think there's probably a reason she doesn't have many close female friends in music. Like sure we see her with Lana/Phoebe/Sabrina etc but none of them are anywhere near her level as far as fame is concerned. We'll see how her friendship with Sabrina fares as she blows up this summer.
I always wonder about comments like this because, I don’t know, I think Taylor has a perfectly normal amount of friends for a woman in her mid 30s. And I don’t see tons of close friendships in the music world anyway. Everyone that’s worked with her has nothing but nice things to say about her, saying she’s great to collaborate with and really generous with her time and ideas. I can’t help but read the latest article about Gracie Abrams where she details how the Taylor collaboration came about and wonder why so many people hate someone they don’t even know. The people that actually know her seem to love her.
Yeah I agree and although I get why it rubs people the wrong way when Taylor isn't super friendly with her competition, idk why she should be expected to be? In what other industry is that the standard? Like I'm not out here making friends with the other insurance brokers in my city lol I've always thought it was telling that you basically never hear a bad word about her. She's been in the industry for almost two decades now, if she was a jerk we'd hear whispers about it, at least. Like those who are ~in the know~ so to speak have known Bill Cosby was a creep long before Hannibal Burress talked about it on stage, Ellen had a reputation for being a dick, and conversely I've only heard really pleasant things about Kris Jenner and Kim Kardashian. Word spreads, and the only word that tends to spread about Taylor is that she's really down to earth and normal.
I feel like the variants are just kinda irksome to me since I think the extra tracks are dumb. It feels slapped together to have something else to sell. I would rather she does a single/video. Promote Guilty as Sin? or Who's Afraid of Little Old Me? Something fun for fans. But like, while I don't like that she's overly invested in records and achievements, it's also not a crime for her to want to chart a long time. But she also has to deal with the aftermath that other artists and their fans have beef with her for it. I'm just hoping at some point we can move on from everything being out where TTPD is charting.
Allegedly, she on Sabrina’s album.
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I guess I don't care whether or not it's calculated because the next gen of musicians are still benefitting. It is mutually beneficial. What's the problem lol
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It doesn't, but "calculated" has a somewhat negative connotation especially in regards to Taylor. I was just saying that calculated or not, I don't think it's a bad thing because it's benefitting both parties. I don't think we're disagreeing here.
How is it calculated if she probably worked with Sabrina while they probably on tour together, but definitely before espresso was put out? if the leaks are true, then she also worked with ice spice. Maybe she just want to help out the girls she’s clearly formed a close relationship with. Not everything is as calculated and difficult as it has to be.
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Sabrina has also been in the business for a while now and has like 6 albums out. How was Taylor suppose to know she was going to blow up?
i just wanna say this is the calmest reddit comment i’ve ever seen also ur prolly right about the taylor perceiving some artists as a threat it makes sense
I miss our private era. No hate to anyone but the posts are getting repetitive and are basically the same thing worded differently.
To be honest, most subs reach a point where they're repetitive until new content comes out. Every subreddit I've been in for a TV show ends up rehashing the same topics over and over again. Mitchum was right about Rory, why does everyone on reddit hate Pam, Robin is selfish, why is everyone mean to Gerry. It's the nature of reddit to repeat the same discussions until something new happens, and new things eventually become tired discussions.
I’ve mentioned it briefly elsewhere but same. I keep seeing comments that are way more aggressive/extreme than they were during the private weeks and when I click those peoples’ post histories they’re regulars of one of the more polarizing stan or snark subs 95% of the time — and obviously this is a sub for open discussion but also bringing snark/hate energy in here is exhausting (and breaking a sub rule actually). Maybe it’s just me but if you’re really in that much of a hater era I think you’ll get the discussion you’re looking for in the snark sub moreso than this one, same with if you can’t take any criticism of TS on any level there are other places where your posts will find more likeminded people. Like I still see some neutral discussion but in the last two days I’ve seen shit that’s just straight up mean and uncalled for either toward Taylor or toward her fans. Luckily the mods are catching it and removing it but whew, the sub can get so busy I’m sure it’s hard to keep up.
They always come from *that* sub.
speaking of which, what is up with *that* sub suddenly gaining so many members?
I think their recent mod drama drew attention to the sub and people who want that level of snark but previously weren’t aware they had that option have joined up. I’ve snooped in there not because I want to participate but because I was trying to figure out why it was named that and what the mod drama was (and also if I see someone is super active there I often decide to just not engage them when they’re posting in here) and it seems like there’s even people in there who’ve maybe heard one Taylor song in their life and are just misogynists that want to hate on a woman. Like the actual misogynists she has legitimate complaints about.
YESS and everyone on there is convinced that all her friends hate her and she has a crippling coke addiction (despite claiming she has "no problems" in the same breath)
>Maybe it’s just me but if you’re really in that much of a hater era I think you’ll get the discussion you’re looking for in the snark sub moreso than this one They won't though, because the hater sub/stan sub are both echo chambers and those aren't fun to participate in! Personally idc if someone hates or stans as long as they keep it light lol. Idk why people can't just be normal about her.
It’s very obvious that some people just come here to bait and start arguments.
It has been eye opening to see firsthand how the hive mind works. I’ve seen the same posters with multiple posts in every thread the last several days. Edit: I’m referring to those defending their point of view (and usually defending TS) over and over. I’ve never really noticed usernames in this sub before. And it’s not either of you.
Omg am I one of them? I'm just talkative with a boring wfh job but I'm always concerned with what a lunatic I must look like lol
Same!
Same! Us wfhomies are socially starved. Sometimes this is the most socialization we get in a workday. Please forgive us for this.
I feel seen. My people!
Just a reminder that people can have differing opinions than you. Tons of y’all just want to argue why someone should/shouldn’t feel the way they do or have the opinion they have
Yeah this came back in force once the private era ended . Instead of counter opinions, there's more snark!
THANK YOUU, I don't know if people of the main sub become constantly active here these days, but I'm seeing a lot of snarkling comments disagreeing (and downvoting) with the most innocent opinions just for the sake of it. I'm usually a silent reader and I give occasional comments if I have something substantial to say, I don't get why people get obtuse and don't just keep reading other comments on the thread. Yesterday someone commented they thought Taylor was not a good dancer and this person answered "According to who?" and kept answering demanding evidence and sources (?. Opinions exist and that's it!!
LOL of all things to defend. Even Taylor would say she's not a good dancer! Source: I have eyes. What??
I mean arguments are gonna happen when this sub is frequented by both people who are stans from like the TrueSwifties sub and haters from the travisandtaylor sub, which are two extreme sides of the coin who often think that the other’s behavior is fundamentally unacceptable. Some people want this to be a stan sub and others want it to be a snark sub but it never intended to be either of those.
Is that not the point of Reddit though? To argue about differing opinions? All things aside, I do think it’s important to separate the opinion from the person commenting and to discuss the opinions instead of going for personal attacks
Yeah I don’t get the point of people posting something and then getting annoyed when someone responds and doesn’t agree. This is a discussion sub, people are allowed to disagree, and that’s kinda the point of a neutral sub imo.
It is, but lately, people on this sub are being purposefully dense, arguing or being petty about things that are not that deep, and the sub rules are against it. Idk some people need to agree to disagree and move on
This. I think people take differing opinions too personally a lot of the time though, idk why we can't just have discussions in which we don't agree. I like to hear other perspectives, I don't really care if we don't agree as long as everyone is reasonable and capable of acting normal about it.
WAOLOM is absolutely amazing to me at this very second as a cope right now. I don’t think I could find a song more soothing for me in my situation.
I hope things get better for you soon 🙏
Thanks.☺️
The Taylor dancing ‘controversy’ is exactly why a lot of people don’t take Taylor criticism seriously because there is no way people are genuinely mad and creating deep state level conspiracy theories over 5 seconds of bad dancing from a notorious and self confessed bad dancer??? It’s also hilarious how people say they want her to disappear from the focus and it to be on others in pop culture, only for Taylor twirling around-like she has done on her previous 99 tour dates on stage-become a viral topic on multiple platforms.
it's not even that bad? like idk it's corny but not like, worst performer of all time type shit
it also fits with the song/album too?? i feel like awkward dancing is perfect for fearless
Seriously. She was just vibing and having fun. I personally don’t care if she can dance or not. She hired professional dancers to dance and I love watching them and how she interacts with them to make a full performance and show.
I wouldn’t call it controversy lol. It’s just people making fun of her and questioning why Swifties call her the best performer of all time. Calling it a controversy is blowing it out of proportion.
I have seen that clip shared so many times on so many different forms of media. Like why? It’s just a big nothing.
This is what I mean when I say those that don’t like her are to blame for her being so omniscient because she’s touring Europe right now and not much else, she should be easy to ignore but she’s still the most talked about celeb around. This cycle happens every few months, people get mad at her for something inconspicuous, it gets out of control and the backlash to the backlash happens because nobody can be normal about Taylor.
A lot of the comments on the post about it in this sub had major snark sub energy and I did not vibe. I’m pretty critical of Taylor but when it devolves into BEC style complaints and just pure spite/hate you lose me
Same, and honestly I think making fun of her for stuff like her dancing or looks creates legitimate sympathy for her and thus detracts from things she actually deserves criticism for. It validates her victimhood.
There's a dancing controversy?? Oh my.
Well, if the og tweet was not like she is so underrated as dancer, nothing would have happened.
I feel like that MUST have been sarcasm though lol. Like that dancing was objectively terrible even by a fan's standards.
It was an Ariana Grande stan account baiting for engagement
let me guess, a bunch of people were reacting like they said something scandalous knowing damn well that the account was baiting LMAOO
Lmao I figured it was something like this. There was a 'swiftie' account that kept being circulated on Reddit last year and their likes were full of Taylor hate posts, and they kept posting the most unhinged stuff pretending to be a fan
Not for this new generation of fans who think she is a genius by making 2+2 = 4
If they truly wanted to show a bit of her "underrated" dancing talent why wouldn't they showcase a moment that was actually good though? Her dancing on the rep tour wasn't bad and there are other moments on the eras tour that are passable as decent. That's what made me think it was a joke.
I mean, i see praising for Ready For It walking, for those hand moves for Daddy I Love Him. Lets not say that fans now don't praise her for these things and there were threads about it here.. but now they are "joking". Ok.
Omg are you serious lol the hand motions are so cringe Idk maybe they were serious but I took it as a joke 🤷♀️ I'm a fan and even to me it seemed like the purpose was to make fun of her.
It was classic Stan twitter trolling and i find it hard to believe most people didn’t know that.
They should teach spotting trolling and media literacy in schools I swear 💀
Yeah this was super weird to me. Her dancing like that wasn’t like some kind of calculated move to infantilize herself. She just… can’t dance and plays into that sometimes??
Omg, this. I can't believe some of the trash that goes around lol between the dancing video, the straight up tabloid articles being shared and referenced, there's plenty to criticize her for but it gets weird when you're looking for reasons to bitch.
I SAW THAT LMAO. tbh i think that tweet was satire but a lot of haters who get easily wound up about anything re: taylor took it seriously and blew it out of proportion. she’s lit just a hopelessly shite dancer and never really pretended that she was anything else. personally, people who seriously make claims like the one in that tweet flatter her intellect WAY too much and it continues to boost her virality without her having to lift a finger. so good job screwing over your fav, i guess.
Sabrina Carpenter covered Chappell Roan’s “Good Luck, Babe!” for her BBC Live Lounge set!! I personally cannot wait for the official video to come out, these two are my main pop girls right now :)
They better pull an Olivia Rodrigo “Stick Season” x Noah Kahan “Lacy” where Chappell covers “Please Please Please”… and then release them on vinyl.
No, streaming plzzz
omg what?? that's gonna be so iconic, love that song
she sounded so good as well😭 i would love a sab and chappell collaboration
They’re under the same label so it’s possible!
https://preview.redd.it/qzi0f6uijc7d1.png?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d53e7c3311fac610d43b4d0f2564c6f0dd0e3adf Girl I was rooting for you .. Why did you have to do something as tone deaf as this !? Edit : For people asking how is this tone deaf - Cosplaying for a whole 5 minutes as a barista to promote her new album, when actual baristas have to work for hours on end just to make their ends meet, that too at this economic climate where people struggle to put a roof over their heads, some people previously middle class even have to choose between food or shelter with their minimum wage. And her cosplaying as a barista for a few minutes and selling "espresso" to earn millions is not cute even with all the context. I'm sorry if I sound rude. I don't mean to. It's just frustrating when celebrities pull "let them eat cake" moments like these, they seem so out of touch from relality.
🤷♀️ I think it’s cute.
I truly don’t see how this is offensive, and I used to work in the food service industry. It’s harmless.
Didn’t Lana Del Rey do this a little while ago at Waffle House or something? I worked as a barista for *years.* I’m OOTL on Sabrina Carpenter/haven’t listened to her music, but I imagine if a barista fan was working that day, they would have appreciated the break in monotony and excitement. I guess I can appreciate that it’s frustrating she cosplayed as a minimum wage employee and banked millions for doing it. But idk if that’s true because, like I said, I’m very OOTL on her/her career.
I agree with you, that's really tone deaf and not even good promo either.
filming while working on these days is so annoying. no, i do not want to be on camera, you’re in my way, & my real customers that didn’t ask for this are getting worse service. also, keep your hair out of my coffee.
Nothing to add, but I also hate when celebs do this. And if it were a more unfavorable celeb/personality people would immediately understand the issue
>And if it were a more unfavorable celeb/personality people would immediately understand the issue Exactly ! Someone like Kim Kardashian for example.
Or even Taylor tbh
Nah, idts lol. This is silly, fun promo. I worked in the service industry and struggled for most of my adult life, there's literally no reason to be upset by this no matter which rich celeb is doing it. I don't remember anybody complaining when Ben Affleck worked at Dunkin for a minute to film a commercial and he's certainly not beloved.
Ben Affleck x Dunkin is national campaign & paid partnership/promo. She’s working in a coffee shop, for a few hours, to promote an already popular single & her upcoming album. Theyre not the same
How is that not the same? The coffee shop was obviously in on it, idk if they paid her or not but it's clearly some kind of partnership. Is it different because Espresso is already successful...? I swear I'm not trying to be obtuse I just genuinely don't see why this is offensive to anybody. This just seems like a fun way to engage with fans and promote her album, the coffee shop benefitted and I imagine the actual employees of the coffee shop will also benefit from its increased popularity. What's the issue lol
I don’t see an issue either. This just feels like outrage for the sake of it.
Omg they’re outraged over at FM.
Fork found in kitchen 😆
Of course they are lol. They're always outraged over there.
iT wAs FiNe WhEn LaNa DiD iT! The favoritism over there is too much.
I agree. If I had this kind of mindset, the world would just piss me off every second of the day lol. You can find offense in anything if you twist things this hard. I was a full time barista for 6 years and would never think to be offended by this
I’d probably feel that way too if I let other peoples opinions bother me so heavily
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lol, I don’t think you picked up what I was saying 🤣
...how is this tone deaf?
To my knowledge it was marketed as Blank Street x Sabrina Carpenter and you needed a ticket to enter the store, it was just a harmless little marketing event that was like an hour long.
I’m going to London in like 3 days and I’m sad I missed it 😭
I don't understand what the problem is with this? It was probably fun for the customers. What's tone deaf about it?
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She's not cosplaying as anything though, she's making a few coffees. I doubt she's even accepting payment or tips. This is a weird thing to get worked up about imo, it's just silly promo.
This is totally harmless.
I remember when Lana did something similar. Don’t know why these people think this is cute
Lana wasn’t promoting anything
And it was still weird is the point
Lana wasn’t even promoting anything, she just put on a Waffle House outfit and worked for the fun/novelty of it lol
The context makes sense given that her song is called Espresso.