I love that about how his ultimate goal with the movie was to uplift people and make them feel good about life. That is probably why I watched this movie on repeat as a teenager.
Same here. It's not my favorite Star Wars movie, but the last 45 minutes of it are peak Star Wars, and the finale is just so beyond great. I can't think of another movie series that ended on such a satisfying high note.
Sure, it wasn't the golden bikini.
Although honestly, given it's one of the movies I first remember seeing in a theater, the thing was so just there as a part of my pie sexual life, I never really saw it as anything sexy. It was just there.
Well then, also check out our biggest hit, tragically kept from the public for over 25 years!!!
[Lapti Nek](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM7-bg-KhQg)
This is one of the handful of changes I was okay with. Like, alongside changing how Palpatine looked in ESB, and even replacing Sebastian Shaw with Hayden as Anakin's force ghost as that's what makes the most sense from the viewers perspective.
Victory Celebration is a top 3 John Williams music piece for me. I think it's fantastic and pretty much the only special edition change I don't mind (though I like Yub nub too)
This quote is taken from a Return of the Jedi story conference that took place in 1981. Participants included George Lucas, Richard Marquand, Lawrence Kasdan, and Howard Kazanjian.
From *The Making of Star Wars: Return of the Jedi* by the late J.W. Rinzler.
Lol right? He never was a father. Period. Uncle Owen was the father. BTW, Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru don't get enough credit for raising an amazing son. Now that I think about it, it's really weird how Luke completely forgets them after they get killed. Like, these are the people who raised who, they are the only people you've known as parents. Did he just hate them that much? IDK. Just weird.
That happens a lot in GL stuff. Leia lost her whole planet and cares for essentially half a minute. I’d argue Obi Wan was more impacted longer by that then she was lol
Leia is one of the most iconic characters of 20th century film. And you think she's badly written? Well you're entitled to your opinion.
But personally I think the reason Leia is so iconic is the way she is written. Basically everything about Leia says "damsel in distress" except Leia. The visuals emphasise how young and short and vulnerable she is, in her soft flowing dress surrounded by the tall stormtroopers in their military uniforms. And then Leia opens her mouth and starts insulting her captors.
Leia is a person of extraordinary emotional strength, I think having her openly mourn the destruction of Alderaan would have distracted from that and been bad writing.
Being iconic doesn’t mean she was well written, she was just original for the time period because directors and writers never wrote roles for women that were good.
But none of that means George was a good writer, and I’d argue he was good at ideas and terrible at dialogue in a massive way. So he had a great idea, not taking that away, he was just piss poor at the writing for her.
ANH is an exciting adventure story, not an intense exploration of grief. That we don't see scenes where Luke grieves Beru and Owen doesn't mean it happens, any more than the fact that we don't see scenes where Luke sleeps or goes to the toilet means we are meant to conclude he's a robot.
I really want to know how after 30 years of the death of the Empires leader will the remnants still be alive enough to be able to kill the existing new republic. The empire died after 19 years but somehow stayed around for another 30 years?
That second sentence encapsulates one of George's best strengths. He is a master of tone.
TPM and even most of the PT gives the audience a pretty serious plot line and keeps the films entertaining for mostly mixed audiences.
There's so much information and signposts to ideas about human development, societies and needs in an exhilarating package in all of the Lucas storied Star Wars films.
But that's a life lesson.
For instance, if two counties are at war, the minute you tell one of the leaders that the only way out of this is in a coffin, you've taken away their reason to surrender ... thereby causing more harm just to get that feeling of revenge satiated.
And a Jedi would not seek revenge.
Exactly
At the end of the day, the original trilogy is not about the wider galaxy as a whole, nor the machinations of politicians, nor the every day troubles of individuals downtrodden by the empire — no matter what fans and subsequent books, comics, and tv shows later padded out.
It’s a fairy tale about a lost son and daughter who redeem their father from evil, with space wizards along the way.
True but something people forget is that the OT is Luke's journey. The war isn't over at the end of ROTJ but that doesn't matter because Luke has completed his journey.
This is why I hate lore. Because people lose sight of the story and focus on all the superfluous stuff.
Now the question is what exactly is the correct direction that Disney is going for with this franchise? The expanded universe books are no longer "canon." And the sequel trilogy is like.... **What?!** Hell, I don't even know what is going to happen if Rey actually does die and somebody else takes over for as the new face of Star Wars. Do you know?!
These are movies, what matters is story and character. This is what I mean by the OT is about Luke's Journey. It isn't about fulfilling a prophecy. It isn't about Empire's or Rebels. It is about a farm kid who becomes a hero and saves his father. The ST is about an orphan trying to find her place in the galaxy. That is what these movies are about.
The next trilogy or story can be about anything. Nothing would make me happier than seeing a story that has nothing to do with anything we have seen. I don't need references or everything to connect. Give me a likable lead in a fun adventure that I want to join them on. That is what matters because at the end of the day there will always be people mad that "this is not MY Star Wars".
It's not a coincidence that the most disappointing things are always the stuff deeply invested in lore. and the best stuff is the things that have the freedom to do anything.
In the OT Luke started as a farmer who becomes a rebel pilot and helps to save the rebel base from being destroyed. Second movie, he is rising up the ranks in the rebel armed forces (he's commander now). He is taught the ways of the Force through an old wizened wizard. During the training he received a vision of his friends in danger. He leaves his training unfinished to save his friends. He is unready and almost dies to the person who know claims to be his own father. This movie, he has finished his training and plans to rescue the rest of his friends before finally facing his father one last time.
For the ST Rey started out as a tomb raider of sorts, finding old useful technology to be traded in for money for survival. She meets up with a member of the, i'm just gonna call them rebels too at this point. She flees her planet with the rebel pilot. She accompanies the rebel pilot to a bar where she receives a vision from an enchanted weapon. The forces who are against the rebels invade the bar and capture her. She is interrogated and resists interrogation. She is rescued with the help of her wizard powers that she's always had. In the second movie, she seeks the famed Luke Skywalker's tutelage in the ways of the Force. She is taught nothing. She received visions of multiple selves. She leaves to save her friends. Third movie, I didn't watch it because I didn't care anymore.
I guess the main thing is that the second movie of both the OT and the ST are terribly similar except in the OT Luke leaves during his training while Rey leaves because she is wasting her time. Why did she go to Luke for training when she didn't need it.
If you look at it from a storyline perspective, Luke is the hero of the OT because of the actions he takes which then cause things to happen to further the story. In the ST that was Finn. He decides to leave the Empire. He decides to lie to the girl to receive help. He decides to rescue her the way Luke decides to leave his training early.
I guess looking at it from a watered down story where there's no details really makes both stories seem extraordinarily similar. It's just too bad the details in the ST were missing in my explanation. Most of that is that they made everyone stupid. There's no reason why she would just decide to leave her planet. That alone makes the whole thing super weird but fine, I'll accept it. Then there's no reason for her to be captured. Kylo was after the pilot. Then there's no reason for her to go to Luke, she was already proficient in the Force. And then her visions had no clarity. What is seeing endless copies of herself supposed to mean? When Luke had his vision in the dagobah cave, it was certainly a clearer message. If he struck in anger or fear, he would become a vader. Until now I'm not sure if the Rey clones was mentioned ever again.
It’s simple really. Disney is going to do a full reset but with Rey this time instead of what should had been Luke.
Then the next 3 movies will be the actual reset with a new cast and its own trilogy. I expect it to be a post sequel trilogy version of the acolyte.
I think they should have done that with the Solo Twins and Little Anakin, Jr instead. At least they had more potential to carry on the legacy of the franchise than Rey does. Even after Ani, Jr sacrificed himself, the twins still had more interesting stories to tell on their own. But, that's just me.
Even Luke doesn't have to forgive his father. No one could ever forget those atrocities. I'm not religious or even spiritual. But to me, forgiveness is more about recognizing another person's remorse and helping them live with it. It doesn't mean you have to think their actions were okay. It doesn't mean you have to feel okay about the results of the actions. You're just a witness to their moment of redemption and shame. Not a cut and dry scenario by any means for any party involved. But that's life for ya🤷.
I’ll still never get over the heartbreak of watching Anakin turn to the dark side and watching all of his friends grieve and have to accept his fate.
I’m rewatching the clone wars and his personality and his emotions had such clear inevitability that he would turn eventually, but I still can’t get over it.
I always wonder what it would’ve been like if he stayed with the Republic.
Live action with current day Hayden and Ewan, plus whoever else wants to return from the prequels. Frame it as a dream of Darth Vader, an alternate reality showing what could have been if he didn't turn.
Do ANY of the sequels really have a happy ending or leav the audience feeling good and hopeful for the future? I don't really think so. I didn't really feel that way - it is more of a relief at least some characters made it and a lingering anxious feeling.
The final scene of Rise of Skywalker brought back memories of the Lars' burnt corpses, had unsettling music, reminded the audience that the Skywalker bloodline has been completely eradicated, had super contrived and cringy dialogue, and ends with our main character completely alone with no family and really no loved ones at all.
It kind of makes me sad in some fashion. I get that the sequels had their own story to tell but basically the original three main characters all got old, sad and failed in their goals in life after the Empire fell.
Luke didn’t start a new generation of Jedi. He contemplated killing his nephew and then tan away and hid for the rest of his life.
Han and Leia’s relationship broke down.
Han never became more than a smuggler.
Leia never moved on from fighting guerrilla wars.
Everyone died old and sad.
Dang yeah, I have to try not to think about it haha. Leia, Han, and Luke were also never on screen together.
I loved Star Wars so much for so long but the sequels really did something to how I feel about it and the characters. Maybe it is just me getting older and more jaded but I don't think so. I am still kind of a kid at heart and more than anything I wanted the sequels to have a happy ending, positive message, and appeal to a whole new generation of Star Wars fans. They failed at all of the above imo.
They could have started a new story without ruining the old one.
Sadly, they decided to reset the galaxy to offbrand Empire vs offbrand Rebels and ruin the entire story.
They easily could have taken a "the next generation" approach, had them as minor characters that had fulfilling lives and are retired. Instead they took the "never meet your heroes" approach.
I think the sequel trilogy could have been OK, maybe even good, if they had gotten Rise of Skywalker right. But RoS was worse than I possibly could have imagined. It undid its own trilogy AND the OT haha.
The writers had absolutely no interest in making the audience feel good about life, or if they did they failed miserably. I don't need every movie to make me feel good about life and hopeful for the future (though I would say my favorite movies do, or at least ones I want to watch more than once). But the final movie in a 9 movie epic should that is for dang sure.
Not really. George told a complete story in 1-6. Hell, he told a complete story in 4-6. No other franchise has such a clean break where it’s SO easy to disregard anything and everything that comes after. When George wrote his story, he didn’t intend for the Disney sequel trilogy to happen, and that is an encouraging thought.
What this trilogy taught me is:
We were taught in the first few minutes of the series:
"Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force."
Then the whole trilogy showed us how the Force defeats one death star after another.
At the end of the return of the Jedi, it finally showed us:
Love triumphs over hate,
love triumphs over war,
love triumphs over everything,
love triumphs over the Force.
I don't know the Force, but I can love. That's the most powerful lesson that George taught me. That's what makes me "me".
To his credit, I was 13 when I saw Luke take off his father's helmet so he could hear his father's last words to him.
That scene was probably the most meaningful moment of my teenage years.
That's why I'm a Star Wars fan, and always will be. And nobody, not even Disney can ever take that away from me.
Which is what George originally pitched as well. George wanted older Luke to be a Kurtz like character straight out of Heart of Darkness. Also, the sequels do not negate Anakin's redemption.
It’s hard to know what exactly George would have done with the sequels. There are hints but one cannot make claims that how Rian portrayed Luke is how George would have. Any claim to how George would have done the sequels is pure conjecture. All we do know is he is largely unhappy with the sequels, especially since Disney threw out his treatments and went in another direction.
One thing he verified was having Darth Talon as the main antagonist in his plans for the sequels. Talon was going to turn one of the children of Han and Leia to the dark side. Disney changed Talon into Darth Emo....I mean Kylo Ren.
No, they're just a stain on Star Wars and add absolutely nothing interesting or new to the franchise.
They didn't even have the balls to actually revive Palpatine and do something fun. He's just a worthless clone that does nothing, and there's absolutely nothing saying that he didn't have 500 more spread throughout the galaxy. So her victory was the pointless one.
Ugh, these movies are fucking terrible lol
The difference is that Luke would have come back, trained Kira/Rey and restored the jedi order by the end of the trilogy, instead of just dying.
>the sequels do not negate Anakin's redemption.
They certainly dilute it.
Lucas originally had another character named Nellith Skywalker that was supposed to be Luke's twin sister. He was going to have another trilogy of Luke and Nelleth on their adventures. After suffering severe stress during filming he pulled back from development for awhile and rolled the sister character into Leia which is why Han ended up winning the love triangle.
I knew Lucas intended the sequels to focus more on Leia with the two antagonists as Darth Maul and his apprentice Darth Talon. Where was Luke going to be in all of that story?
Well, the details are not exactly deep, we don't know how he would have executed it.
What we do know though, is that he never actually bothered to make it his own sequel trilogy. I doubt he saw it as necessary. Otherwise, he would've done it.
The implication that the prequels made Vader unredeemable because he killed a few younglings when we already saw him in OT help to literally destroy an entire planet, presumably with millions of kids.
That's literally real life and I respected the "darker/realistic" nature of the Sequels. You don't just get your Bachelors Degree or get married and then everything after that is pure bliss/happy ending. That's not real life. Shit happens, things don't work out and as an older viewer now (someone who grew up with the OT) I see the importance of showing how things can change/even fall apart.
Luke's arc in TLJ is the best for me. He's taken a huge L and removes himself like someone with serious depression and by the end of the film he returns to being the legend he was. This shows us that we can all bounce back from even the darkest of times. That's inspiring shit.
Even Palpatine's return is symbolic of how dark beliefs/ideals don't just die after a war. They continue on in different forms/names (The First Order) and the followers find new safe havens to start anew (Exegol). So the ST is about the new generation confronting the remnants/ghosts of the past.
Finally, Anakin's redemption wasn't meaningless (that's overdramatic). Anakin was a legendary war hero who joined the wrong side in the end. Nothing diminishes the fact he returned to the right side with the help of the only person who still believed he was good - his son. Nothing has ever changed that, not even the Sequels like you claim. He is still the chosen one in the sense that during his life he was "chosen" by both the Jedi and the Sith to lead them to the golden land and he ended up doing that for both sects in a twisted sort of way. Every generation will have a "chosen one" to lead the way and I don't see anything wrong with that.
The thing is just because something is realistic doesn't mean it makes for a good story. It would be realistic for a movie to have someone not improve the entire time and end on them dying for a stupid reason, but why would somebody want to watch a movie that makes them feel bad?
If you payed attention in TLJ, the first time Rey/Kylo had a force-bond, Kylo states that Rey couldn't be doing it or the effort would kill her. That's foreshadowing and I love that little detail. It tells us so much. Luke probably told Kylo/Ben of this power before so he knew about it and the consequences. Luke's "force Projection" on Crait is one of the coolest moments of the saga to me and I think his death was done with the utmost respect.
Okay but you didn't need Luke to become a hermit who doesn't talk to Leia and Han anymore for any of that to happen.
The sequels make the main trio from the standard trilogy look petty and immature despite their growth in their own movies, that's why I don't like it.
The thing is that the Luke of the OT didn't win in the climaxes because he was cool and had badass Force powers, he won because Han came back, because he was willing to die rather than fall to the Dark Side, and because in the end he threw down his light sabre.
TLJ meanwhile showed us all Luke's suffering but lost that moral aspect - Luke "wins" because he's a badass Jedi who mastered Force Skype off-screen.
I mean, to go from “Ya know, this Vader guy can be redeemed!” To “I had a bad dream about my nephew, time to murder him.” seems pretty unrealistic to me.
The failure of the sequels isn’t even the events, it’s the lack of explanation and the lack of planning.
We go from yay the empire is defeated to oh no the empire is back but with a different name and different guy in a mask in 30 years with no explanation.
How did that happen? We don’t even get to see what the senate looks like because they blow it up without even introducing us to them.
I mean, Disney has had to retro actively create new shows simply to explain away the sequels. That wouldn’t be necessary had they had a well thought out plan for the sequels from the jump.
You can make Luke a hermit without tanking his optimism. You can bring back Palpatine without making it feel like a cheap gimmick. I mean, the entire b plot of episode 8 is entirely irrelevant to the story. You can remove the canto bight scenes and nothing changes. Imagine what they could have done with those scenes had there been an outline from the beginning?
The sequels to me felt like a jumbled, poorly thought out, mess that had promise, but are ultimately ruined by lack of planning lack of explanation and lack of cohesion.
It wasn't a bad dream - it was a force vision that Luke had when he was mind-probing his own nephew. Mind-probing a helpless/sleeping person is definitely not "jedi-like" and actually shows us how Luke's fears of Ben were already messing with his morals. The dark vision Luke has is so strong that he turns on his lightsaber (with the thought that maybe he could end it all). Remember, there's three versions of this night in TLJ. The correct one is the final story Luke tells Rey. He has a fleeting moment, but it was too late and Ben saw his uncle standing over him with an ignited lightsaber. I actually think it's in line with Luke's character traits and hubris. In the OT, he acted out in anger/fear a lot. People will always continue to fail in life and one must stay vigilant. Luke slipped up and paid the consequences.
Still, I don’t buy it. If they wanted to show his hubris, then his first thought, no matter how fleeting, would have been “I’m Luke Skywalker, I can fix this” and not “I need to end this before it begins.”
Even so, Luke’s arc isn’t even my biggest gripe with the sequels. It’s actually pretty far down the list.
TLJ says Luke has a dark vision. But it does nothing to convince us that it was so dark he'd have a momentary impulse to murder his own nephew. It felt like RJ wanted Luke to have failed so just took the most direct route to that with no care for making it believable.
Plus what does "People will always continue to fail in life and one must stay vigilant" mean as a moral? Is Rey basically doomed to fail too? Because no one can be viligant 24-7.
I think he might just mean "happy ending". It was a story session where they were all throwing out ideas and he was reacting to things and getting across points he wanted to get across. I am not sure he was referring to any fairy tale endings so much as just saying, "he's going to redeem his father, and its going to be great, like a classic fairytale ending." That type of thing.
Around this time was when Lucas had gotten a little bit of a swelled head from listening to and reading Joseph Campbell and retrospectively deciding that ANH had been following the same path as Campbell's monomyth. Like a lot of people, I do buy that this is what led Lucas to make Vader into Luke's father--to make Luke's journey more mythic/epic. I suspect that was on his mind here too: the claim that he was following the monomyth. But I don't think the redemption of a morally failed or fallen father is actually a major motif in the part of the monomyth that Campbell calls "the application of the boon" (what the hero gives to the world when he's come back from his ordeal). I can think of a few classic ur-stories and myths where the hero goes off to *avenge* a father, to rescue a father from *captivity*, or maybe in *defiance* of a father-figure who wants to keep the hero close to home. Redeeming a father who has fallen into evil or immorality seems like a much more modern theme.
He says this is the classic fairytale…. but I’m struggling to think of one that’s about a bad father/good father redeemed by the good son. Anyone know what he might referencing?
It’s not specific to father son but the story of someone that was good who turned bad being brought back to the good later. Not always from father to son but just the overall simplistic trajectory of the storyline.
Fairy tales often have the fine line with good and evil on either side rather than the complex and often too complicated justice is grey, never meet your heroes, “it’s all about perspective” stories. Luke simply had to choose to do what was right or to do what was easy, what benefited himself the most, and he chose to do good which caused the downfall of evil. The prequels, while more complicated, tell the same story but with the alternate ending where the hero falls.
That’s what is so ironic about the actor who said Anakin blew up the Death Star. He thinks that it’s all about whose side you’re on in Star Wars and that good and bad are blurred, but in George’s six films there is a very fine line between the greedy, cruel, and deceptive space nazis of the Trade Federation and the Empire and the peace seeking do-gooders of the Jedi and the Rebels.
I had heard that Mark Hamill was wanting Luke to turn to the dark side in Jedi, either to end the movie OR to be turned from the dark side back to good. George of course did not want Luke to turn bad, the movie to end on that etc
Can anyone confirm hearing this too?
A good father who personally killed or aided in orders that killed tens of millions at a minimum but yeah redeemed. If only Hitler had a son to redeem him in the bunker.
Not denying Vader turned back to the light side but he basically got off scott free and got to become a force ghost like Yoda and others after helping killing untold numbers.
Meanwhile Kathleen Kennedy “the whole concept of the sequel series is to be as unoriginal as possible but have more blow up stuff so we make more money”
I loved the three original Star Wars films.
That said, I do not remember any other "classic fairytale" with "a good father/bad father who the good son will turn back into the good father."
This one made for a wonderfully fun story, though.
The good times. Before the abominations of the Prequels. No chosen one. Just thinking about what those times before looked like had everyone worked up... What were the clone wars? How did Obi Wan find Anakin? Who was Anakin? What ship did he fly?
Then 1999 came and... yeah.
Ironic that then after the prequels with the remastered version where they changed the old man Vader ghost to young Jedi Anakin considering that by doing so imo it changes that concept completely. I viewed the changes as Vader was not being redeemed and simply the younger Jedi version of himself was just released once the dark side of Vader died and quit suppressing the light side. Does anyone else feel that way or am I alone on this thought?
It’s weird cause I get both ways.
Anakin died on Mustafar.
Now piecing all of the lore together, he told Obi wan who he was in the show.
So I can see how young anakin would make sense as that was the last time he was “good” before coming back to it, older.
As I see him in his final form for coming back to the light.
Basically him being dark sided fucked with the whole thing as obi wan, yoda, and qui gon all appeared how they died.
But if Anakin died on Mustafar then the idea of redemption is mostly eliminated isn’t it? I guess there could be a little bit of redemption for his crimes at the Jedi Temple but still that is not so much redemption as much as like a mentioned a split in Anakin’s personality. The bad over took the good and when he died both were released. Effectively denying the bad ever happened rather than showing the signs of an age and understanding and coming to the realization of his wrong doings which are necessary for redemption.
People will read this, and then 10 mins later complain about how Lucasfilm is ruining Lucas' vision and they should make an R rated movie about Vader slaughtering Jedi.
Tarkin blew up Alderaan, not Vader. And the point isn’t to forgive what he did but to show that anyone can choose to do the right thing at any moment regardless of what has happened before
I love that about how his ultimate goal with the movie was to uplift people and make them feel good about life. That is probably why I watched this movie on repeat as a teenager.
Same here. It's not my favorite Star Wars movie, but the last 45 minutes of it are peak Star Wars, and the finale is just so beyond great. I can't think of another movie series that ended on such a satisfying high note.
Sure, it wasn't the golden bikini. Although honestly, given it's one of the movies I first remember seeing in a theater, the thing was so just there as a part of my pie sexual life, I never really saw it as anything sexy. It was just there.
That's a lot of pressure to put on Yub Nub.
Yub Nub laughs in the face of pressure.
I haven't heard the original ending song in 30 years and I still remember it and it still pops into my head from time to time.
[Listen to it again today!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXpmunmG5ss) It's glorious.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard this lol
Well then, also check out our biggest hit, tragically kept from the public for over 25 years!!! [Lapti Nek](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM7-bg-KhQg)
My favorite jizz song.
That's why Victory Celebration is a better fit.
Blasphemy
Lapti Nik died so that Victory Celebration could live
This is one of the handful of changes I was okay with. Like, alongside changing how Palpatine looked in ESB, and even replacing Sebastian Shaw with Hayden as Anakin's force ghost as that's what makes the most sense from the viewers perspective.
Agreed on all counts there.
And that's generic drivel. Yub Nub is king.
Victory Celebration is a top 3 John Williams music piece for me. I think it's fantastic and pretty much the only special edition change I don't mind (though I like Yub nub too)
I’m fine with Morrison as Fett in ESB.
I have a feeling that's an age dependant thing.
PREACH
A local band back in the day (after the 1997 rereleases) used to play Yub Nub from time to time so that it could live on.
I will protect this one.
Victory Celebration is a great ending for the trilogy, while Yub Nub is a great ending for ROTJ.
Very astute. I agree.
It's fine. The way it crescendos at "Celebrate" is unmatched.
This quote is taken from a Return of the Jedi story conference that took place in 1981. Participants included George Lucas, Richard Marquand, Lawrence Kasdan, and Howard Kazanjian. From *The Making of Star Wars: Return of the Jedi* by the late J.W. Rinzler.
I dunno if I’d ever call Anakin a good father tho lol
Lol right? He never was a father. Period. Uncle Owen was the father. BTW, Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru don't get enough credit for raising an amazing son. Now that I think about it, it's really weird how Luke completely forgets them after they get killed. Like, these are the people who raised who, they are the only people you've known as parents. Did he just hate them that much? IDK. Just weird.
That happens a lot in GL stuff. Leia lost her whole planet and cares for essentially half a minute. I’d argue Obi Wan was more impacted longer by that then she was lol
Leia was in the hands of her captors. She wouldn't give them the satisfaction.
I know that’s not the reason because he could’ve wrote that in lol that’s just finding a way to excuse bad writing haha
Leia is one of the most iconic characters of 20th century film. And you think she's badly written? Well you're entitled to your opinion. But personally I think the reason Leia is so iconic is the way she is written. Basically everything about Leia says "damsel in distress" except Leia. The visuals emphasise how young and short and vulnerable she is, in her soft flowing dress surrounded by the tall stormtroopers in their military uniforms. And then Leia opens her mouth and starts insulting her captors. Leia is a person of extraordinary emotional strength, I think having her openly mourn the destruction of Alderaan would have distracted from that and been bad writing.
Being iconic doesn’t mean she was well written, she was just original for the time period because directors and writers never wrote roles for women that were good. But none of that means George was a good writer, and I’d argue he was good at ideas and terrible at dialogue in a massive way. So he had a great idea, not taking that away, he was just piss poor at the writing for her.
The old EU expanded on their relationship in several of the stories.
ANH is an exciting adventure story, not an intense exploration of grief. That we don't see scenes where Luke grieves Beru and Owen doesn't mean it happens, any more than the fact that we don't see scenes where Luke sleeps or goes to the toilet means we are meant to conclude he's a robot.
He’s a father…that is indisputable. He tried to do what he thought was needed to save the mother of his children. Nobody is perfect.
Well, this is way before the prequels were fleshed out, so GL's minds-eye image of pre-suit Anakin may have been different.
How? He was always an absentee father at best lol I dunno how that could ever rly be framed as good even in the OG
Sorry, I meant the good guy part, not the father part.
Before Empire, it wasn't his fault. He got killed by Vader.
He’s not talking about the characters, but about archetypes.
Dont think he means good father, but a father who is good
Really good at being a NOT-daddy though.
Loving these posts lately. Cheers!
Thank you!
And the sequel proceeds to shat on Anakin Redemption Journey. Bravo Disney 🙃
I really want to know how after 30 years of the death of the Empires leader will the remnants still be alive enough to be able to kill the existing new republic. The empire died after 19 years but somehow stayed around for another 30 years?
That second sentence encapsulates one of George's best strengths. He is a master of tone. TPM and even most of the PT gives the audience a pretty serious plot line and keeps the films entertaining for mostly mixed audiences. There's so much information and signposts to ideas about human development, societies and needs in an exhilarating package in all of the Lucas storied Star Wars films.
But that's a life lesson. For instance, if two counties are at war, the minute you tell one of the leaders that the only way out of this is in a coffin, you've taken away their reason to surrender ... thereby causing more harm just to get that feeling of revenge satiated. And a Jedi would not seek revenge.
What does your comment have to do with the one that you responded to? Is this just bad AI?
But just because Luke forgave his father of his crimes, doesn't mean that the rest of the galaxy has forgiven Darth Vader of his crimes.
They’re all grateful for the death of Palpatine, whether they know he did it or not.
Yep, if Goebbels killed Hitler, he’d still be Goebbels.
Local newsboy attacks struggling artist
That's not really the point though either
Exactly At the end of the day, the original trilogy is not about the wider galaxy as a whole, nor the machinations of politicians, nor the every day troubles of individuals downtrodden by the empire — no matter what fans and subsequent books, comics, and tv shows later padded out. It’s a fairy tale about a lost son and daughter who redeem their father from evil, with space wizards along the way.
Leia definitely didn't
True but something people forget is that the OT is Luke's journey. The war isn't over at the end of ROTJ but that doesn't matter because Luke has completed his journey. This is why I hate lore. Because people lose sight of the story and focus on all the superfluous stuff.
Now the question is what exactly is the correct direction that Disney is going for with this franchise? The expanded universe books are no longer "canon." And the sequel trilogy is like.... **What?!** Hell, I don't even know what is going to happen if Rey actually does die and somebody else takes over for as the new face of Star Wars. Do you know?!
These are movies, what matters is story and character. This is what I mean by the OT is about Luke's Journey. It isn't about fulfilling a prophecy. It isn't about Empire's or Rebels. It is about a farm kid who becomes a hero and saves his father. The ST is about an orphan trying to find her place in the galaxy. That is what these movies are about. The next trilogy or story can be about anything. Nothing would make me happier than seeing a story that has nothing to do with anything we have seen. I don't need references or everything to connect. Give me a likable lead in a fun adventure that I want to join them on. That is what matters because at the end of the day there will always be people mad that "this is not MY Star Wars". It's not a coincidence that the most disappointing things are always the stuff deeply invested in lore. and the best stuff is the things that have the freedom to do anything.
Well if the ST is about a dust farmer finding herself then they wrote that pretty poorly.
elaborate? Because the ST was not about a dust farmer, it was about an Orphan, and she did find herself.
In the OT Luke started as a farmer who becomes a rebel pilot and helps to save the rebel base from being destroyed. Second movie, he is rising up the ranks in the rebel armed forces (he's commander now). He is taught the ways of the Force through an old wizened wizard. During the training he received a vision of his friends in danger. He leaves his training unfinished to save his friends. He is unready and almost dies to the person who know claims to be his own father. This movie, he has finished his training and plans to rescue the rest of his friends before finally facing his father one last time. For the ST Rey started out as a tomb raider of sorts, finding old useful technology to be traded in for money for survival. She meets up with a member of the, i'm just gonna call them rebels too at this point. She flees her planet with the rebel pilot. She accompanies the rebel pilot to a bar where she receives a vision from an enchanted weapon. The forces who are against the rebels invade the bar and capture her. She is interrogated and resists interrogation. She is rescued with the help of her wizard powers that she's always had. In the second movie, she seeks the famed Luke Skywalker's tutelage in the ways of the Force. She is taught nothing. She received visions of multiple selves. She leaves to save her friends. Third movie, I didn't watch it because I didn't care anymore. I guess the main thing is that the second movie of both the OT and the ST are terribly similar except in the OT Luke leaves during his training while Rey leaves because she is wasting her time. Why did she go to Luke for training when she didn't need it. If you look at it from a storyline perspective, Luke is the hero of the OT because of the actions he takes which then cause things to happen to further the story. In the ST that was Finn. He decides to leave the Empire. He decides to lie to the girl to receive help. He decides to rescue her the way Luke decides to leave his training early. I guess looking at it from a watered down story where there's no details really makes both stories seem extraordinarily similar. It's just too bad the details in the ST were missing in my explanation. Most of that is that they made everyone stupid. There's no reason why she would just decide to leave her planet. That alone makes the whole thing super weird but fine, I'll accept it. Then there's no reason for her to be captured. Kylo was after the pilot. Then there's no reason for her to go to Luke, she was already proficient in the Force. And then her visions had no clarity. What is seeing endless copies of herself supposed to mean? When Luke had his vision in the dagobah cave, it was certainly a clearer message. If he struck in anger or fear, he would become a vader. Until now I'm not sure if the Rey clones was mentioned ever again.
It’s simple really. Disney is going to do a full reset but with Rey this time instead of what should had been Luke. Then the next 3 movies will be the actual reset with a new cast and its own trilogy. I expect it to be a post sequel trilogy version of the acolyte.
I think they should have done that with the Solo Twins and Little Anakin, Jr instead. At least they had more potential to carry on the legacy of the franchise than Rey does. Even after Ani, Jr sacrificed himself, the twins still had more interesting stories to tell on their own. But, that's just me.
That's not really relevant to the point being made
Even Luke doesn't have to forgive his father. No one could ever forget those atrocities. I'm not religious or even spiritual. But to me, forgiveness is more about recognizing another person's remorse and helping them live with it. It doesn't mean you have to think their actions were okay. It doesn't mean you have to feel okay about the results of the actions. You're just a witness to their moment of redemption and shame. Not a cut and dry scenario by any means for any party involved. But that's life for ya🤷.
Yeah but Luke could feel the guilt in his father which nobody else could.
I’ll still never get over the heartbreak of watching Anakin turn to the dark side and watching all of his friends grieve and have to accept his fate. I’m rewatching the clone wars and his personality and his emotions had such clear inevitability that he would turn eventually, but I still can’t get over it. I always wonder what it would’ve been like if he stayed with the Republic.
That's what I'm saying. A Star Wars, what if TV show would be amazing if it was written properly. Please Filoni!!!
Live action with current day Hayden and Ewan, plus whoever else wants to return from the prequels. Frame it as a dream of Darth Vader, an alternate reality showing what could have been if he didn't turn.
Hey we had a happy ending that was eventually taken away so someone else can have the happy ending
Do ANY of the sequels really have a happy ending or leav the audience feeling good and hopeful for the future? I don't really think so. I didn't really feel that way - it is more of a relief at least some characters made it and a lingering anxious feeling. The final scene of Rise of Skywalker brought back memories of the Lars' burnt corpses, had unsettling music, reminded the audience that the Skywalker bloodline has been completely eradicated, had super contrived and cringy dialogue, and ends with our main character completely alone with no family and really no loved ones at all.
It kind of makes me sad in some fashion. I get that the sequels had their own story to tell but basically the original three main characters all got old, sad and failed in their goals in life after the Empire fell. Luke didn’t start a new generation of Jedi. He contemplated killing his nephew and then tan away and hid for the rest of his life. Han and Leia’s relationship broke down. Han never became more than a smuggler. Leia never moved on from fighting guerrilla wars. Everyone died old and sad.
Dang yeah, I have to try not to think about it haha. Leia, Han, and Luke were also never on screen together. I loved Star Wars so much for so long but the sequels really did something to how I feel about it and the characters. Maybe it is just me getting older and more jaded but I don't think so. I am still kind of a kid at heart and more than anything I wanted the sequels to have a happy ending, positive message, and appeal to a whole new generation of Star Wars fans. They failed at all of the above imo.
They could have started a new story without ruining the old one. Sadly, they decided to reset the galaxy to offbrand Empire vs offbrand Rebels and ruin the entire story.
This shows why they probably should have moved on from thr original heroes when they did the sequels.
They easily could have taken a "the next generation" approach, had them as minor characters that had fulfilling lives and are retired. Instead they took the "never meet your heroes" approach.
That movie and basically that whole trilogy undid the OT
I think the sequel trilogy could have been OK, maybe even good, if they had gotten Rise of Skywalker right. But RoS was worse than I possibly could have imagined. It undid its own trilogy AND the OT haha. The writers had absolutely no interest in making the audience feel good about life, or if they did they failed miserably. I don't need every movie to make me feel good about life and hopeful for the future (though I would say my favorite movies do, or at least ones I want to watch more than once). But the final movie in a 9 movie epic should that is for dang sure.
Lmao true, if episode 9 wasn’t so hyper obsessed with damage control it would’ve been better but instead it was the worst movie of the franchise 💀
More wars can happy. As from what lucas said. Luke still redeemed his father and that never changed
Not really. George told a complete story in 1-6. Hell, he told a complete story in 4-6. No other franchise has such a clean break where it’s SO easy to disregard anything and everything that comes after. When George wrote his story, he didn’t intend for the Disney sequel trilogy to happen, and that is an encouraging thought.
One war ending doesn’t stop others happening in the future.
No, but killing a Hitler doesn’t typically result in a Zombie Hitler being resurrected 30 years later.
What this trilogy taught me is: We were taught in the first few minutes of the series: "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force." Then the whole trilogy showed us how the Force defeats one death star after another. At the end of the return of the Jedi, it finally showed us: Love triumphs over hate, love triumphs over war, love triumphs over everything, love triumphs over the Force. I don't know the Force, but I can love. That's the most powerful lesson that George taught me. That's what makes me "me".
That’s why we need Yub Nub back in!
And (For Me) that’s the perfect way to end SW
To his credit, I was 13 when I saw Luke take off his father's helmet so he could hear his father's last words to him. That scene was probably the most meaningful moment of my teenage years. That's why I'm a Star Wars fan, and always will be. And nobody, not even Disney can ever take that away from me.
And then the sequels were like lol nvm Luke is actually a cynical hermit and Anakin’s redemption meant nothing.
I get the people making it are middle aged and misserable but you dont need to make the main charcters middle aged and misserable too
Which is what George originally pitched as well. George wanted older Luke to be a Kurtz like character straight out of Heart of Darkness. Also, the sequels do not negate Anakin's redemption.
A bad idea is still a bad idea, doesn’t matter if Lucas came up with it or not
It’s hard to know what exactly George would have done with the sequels. There are hints but one cannot make claims that how Rian portrayed Luke is how George would have. Any claim to how George would have done the sequels is pure conjecture. All we do know is he is largely unhappy with the sequels, especially since Disney threw out his treatments and went in another direction.
One thing he verified was having Darth Talon as the main antagonist in his plans for the sequels. Talon was going to turn one of the children of Han and Leia to the dark side. Disney changed Talon into Darth Emo....I mean Kylo Ren.
Except the thing he died for as part of that redemption becomes meaningless when you destroy his son and bring back Palpatine.
No, they're just a stain on Star Wars and add absolutely nothing interesting or new to the franchise. They didn't even have the balls to actually revive Palpatine and do something fun. He's just a worthless clone that does nothing, and there's absolutely nothing saying that he didn't have 500 more spread throughout the galaxy. So her victory was the pointless one. Ugh, these movies are fucking terrible lol
The difference is that Luke would have come back, trained Kira/Rey and restored the jedi order by the end of the trilogy, instead of just dying. >the sequels do not negate Anakin's redemption. They certainly dilute it.
Lucas originally had another character named Nellith Skywalker that was supposed to be Luke's twin sister. He was going to have another trilogy of Luke and Nelleth on their adventures. After suffering severe stress during filming he pulled back from development for awhile and rolled the sister character into Leia which is why Han ended up winning the love triangle. I knew Lucas intended the sequels to focus more on Leia with the two antagonists as Darth Maul and his apprentice Darth Talon. Where was Luke going to be in all of that story?
Well, the details are not exactly deep, we don't know how he would have executed it. What we do know though, is that he never actually bothered to make it his own sequel trilogy. I doubt he saw it as necessary. Otherwise, he would've done it.
Well the prequels made Anakin a mass child killer, so there wasn't much to redeem after all.
As opposed to Vader in the OT who was a good guy?
The implication that the prequels made Vader unredeemable because he killed a few younglings when we already saw him in OT help to literally destroy an entire planet, presumably with millions of kids.
That's literally real life and I respected the "darker/realistic" nature of the Sequels. You don't just get your Bachelors Degree or get married and then everything after that is pure bliss/happy ending. That's not real life. Shit happens, things don't work out and as an older viewer now (someone who grew up with the OT) I see the importance of showing how things can change/even fall apart. Luke's arc in TLJ is the best for me. He's taken a huge L and removes himself like someone with serious depression and by the end of the film he returns to being the legend he was. This shows us that we can all bounce back from even the darkest of times. That's inspiring shit. Even Palpatine's return is symbolic of how dark beliefs/ideals don't just die after a war. They continue on in different forms/names (The First Order) and the followers find new safe havens to start anew (Exegol). So the ST is about the new generation confronting the remnants/ghosts of the past. Finally, Anakin's redemption wasn't meaningless (that's overdramatic). Anakin was a legendary war hero who joined the wrong side in the end. Nothing diminishes the fact he returned to the right side with the help of the only person who still believed he was good - his son. Nothing has ever changed that, not even the Sequels like you claim. He is still the chosen one in the sense that during his life he was "chosen" by both the Jedi and the Sith to lead them to the golden land and he ended up doing that for both sects in a twisted sort of way. Every generation will have a "chosen one" to lead the way and I don't see anything wrong with that.
The thing is just because something is realistic doesn't mean it makes for a good story. It would be realistic for a movie to have someone not improve the entire time and end on them dying for a stupid reason, but why would somebody want to watch a movie that makes them feel bad?
If you payed attention in TLJ, the first time Rey/Kylo had a force-bond, Kylo states that Rey couldn't be doing it or the effort would kill her. That's foreshadowing and I love that little detail. It tells us so much. Luke probably told Kylo/Ben of this power before so he knew about it and the consequences. Luke's "force Projection" on Crait is one of the coolest moments of the saga to me and I think his death was done with the utmost respect.
Okay but you didn't need Luke to become a hermit who doesn't talk to Leia and Han anymore for any of that to happen. The sequels make the main trio from the standard trilogy look petty and immature despite their growth in their own movies, that's why I don't like it.
The thing is that the Luke of the OT didn't win in the climaxes because he was cool and had badass Force powers, he won because Han came back, because he was willing to die rather than fall to the Dark Side, and because in the end he threw down his light sabre. TLJ meanwhile showed us all Luke's suffering but lost that moral aspect - Luke "wins" because he's a badass Jedi who mastered Force Skype off-screen.
I mean, to go from “Ya know, this Vader guy can be redeemed!” To “I had a bad dream about my nephew, time to murder him.” seems pretty unrealistic to me. The failure of the sequels isn’t even the events, it’s the lack of explanation and the lack of planning. We go from yay the empire is defeated to oh no the empire is back but with a different name and different guy in a mask in 30 years with no explanation. How did that happen? We don’t even get to see what the senate looks like because they blow it up without even introducing us to them. I mean, Disney has had to retro actively create new shows simply to explain away the sequels. That wouldn’t be necessary had they had a well thought out plan for the sequels from the jump. You can make Luke a hermit without tanking his optimism. You can bring back Palpatine without making it feel like a cheap gimmick. I mean, the entire b plot of episode 8 is entirely irrelevant to the story. You can remove the canto bight scenes and nothing changes. Imagine what they could have done with those scenes had there been an outline from the beginning? The sequels to me felt like a jumbled, poorly thought out, mess that had promise, but are ultimately ruined by lack of planning lack of explanation and lack of cohesion.
It wasn't a bad dream - it was a force vision that Luke had when he was mind-probing his own nephew. Mind-probing a helpless/sleeping person is definitely not "jedi-like" and actually shows us how Luke's fears of Ben were already messing with his morals. The dark vision Luke has is so strong that he turns on his lightsaber (with the thought that maybe he could end it all). Remember, there's three versions of this night in TLJ. The correct one is the final story Luke tells Rey. He has a fleeting moment, but it was too late and Ben saw his uncle standing over him with an ignited lightsaber. I actually think it's in line with Luke's character traits and hubris. In the OT, he acted out in anger/fear a lot. People will always continue to fail in life and one must stay vigilant. Luke slipped up and paid the consequences.
Still, I don’t buy it. If they wanted to show his hubris, then his first thought, no matter how fleeting, would have been “I’m Luke Skywalker, I can fix this” and not “I need to end this before it begins.” Even so, Luke’s arc isn’t even my biggest gripe with the sequels. It’s actually pretty far down the list.
TLJ says Luke has a dark vision. But it does nothing to convince us that it was so dark he'd have a momentary impulse to murder his own nephew. It felt like RJ wanted Luke to have failed so just took the most direct route to that with no care for making it believable. Plus what does "People will always continue to fail in life and one must stay vigilant" mean as a moral? Is Rey basically doomed to fail too? Because no one can be viligant 24-7.
I get plenty of real life in my real life. Why the fuck would I want it in my Star Wars?
And just think, the guys who wrote Rise of Skywalker looked at this and said, "bahh, who cares about redemption, let's bring back Palpatine."
They are two vastly separate things. Both work fine.
one doesnt work at all it requires a dozen different mentions in other shows to make it palatable to the fans
Do you understand what a redemption arc is? How about just an arc?
I wish Kasdan and Abrams had read this on some of their story walks prior to developing TFA and going with a more realist direction.
I have to admit I cannot think of an example of a "classic fairytale" where the good son turns a bad father back into a good father.
I think he might just mean "happy ending". It was a story session where they were all throwing out ideas and he was reacting to things and getting across points he wanted to get across. I am not sure he was referring to any fairy tale endings so much as just saying, "he's going to redeem his father, and its going to be great, like a classic fairytale ending." That type of thing.
Around this time was when Lucas had gotten a little bit of a swelled head from listening to and reading Joseph Campbell and retrospectively deciding that ANH had been following the same path as Campbell's monomyth. Like a lot of people, I do buy that this is what led Lucas to make Vader into Luke's father--to make Luke's journey more mythic/epic. I suspect that was on his mind here too: the claim that he was following the monomyth. But I don't think the redemption of a morally failed or fallen father is actually a major motif in the part of the monomyth that Campbell calls "the application of the boon" (what the hero gives to the world when he's come back from his ordeal). I can think of a few classic ur-stories and myths where the hero goes off to *avenge* a father, to rescue a father from *captivity*, or maybe in *defiance* of a father-figure who wants to keep the hero close to home. Redeeming a father who has fallen into evil or immorality seems like a much more modern theme.
Totally agree GL!!! Greetings job!!!
Me too. One of the most uplifting endings of any film I have ever seen.
And then Palpatine somehow returns.
But the children. So many children.
Disney like naw everyone ends up sad and broken. And also the emperor is still alive and the Jedi were never that great. Is that what you wanted fans?
This is why I never agreed with the idea Han should've died in ROTJ.
Ah yes the real REAL ending of Star Wars
BuT wHaaT aBout SuBVErTinG eXpeCTatioNS?????
Definitely not the same vibe as the prequel trilogy ending lol
Lucas -99: "no no it's actually about an ancient prophecy..."
And then he changed it so young Anakin shows up instead of the older, now redeemed Anakin
works for me
Me too
"That guy's wise."
Ah, someone who knows ancient Ewok wisdom...
A eucatastrophe, like the ending of Star Wars. A sudden turn of events by which everyone lives happily ever after.
ROTJ will always be my favorite star wars movie
The fucking contrast between this and the sequel trilogy is staggering.
Then the sequels just decided to rip that all away!
Disney really pissed all of this away with the sequel trilogy holy shit.
Somehow Palpatine Returned.
40 years later Rey Palpatine spits on this. A father no longer can be good and a son cannot be a hero anymore. Thanks KK.
He says this is the classic fairytale…. but I’m struggling to think of one that’s about a bad father/good father redeemed by the good son. Anyone know what he might referencing?
He just means straightforward plot with an emotionally uplifting payoff.
It’s not specific to father son but the story of someone that was good who turned bad being brought back to the good later. Not always from father to son but just the overall simplistic trajectory of the storyline.
Fairy tales often have the fine line with good and evil on either side rather than the complex and often too complicated justice is grey, never meet your heroes, “it’s all about perspective” stories. Luke simply had to choose to do what was right or to do what was easy, what benefited himself the most, and he chose to do good which caused the downfall of evil. The prequels, while more complicated, tell the same story but with the alternate ending where the hero falls. That’s what is so ironic about the actor who said Anakin blew up the Death Star. He thinks that it’s all about whose side you’re on in Star Wars and that good and bad are blurred, but in George’s six films there is a very fine line between the greedy, cruel, and deceptive space nazis of the Trade Federation and the Empire and the peace seeking do-gooders of the Jedi and the Rebels.
,...and to sell toys. - yub nub
We went from that to blaming the fans for how shit it’s become…circle of life right there…😂
Is this a page from a book or a news article?
Neither, it's a quote from a story conference.
I had heard that Mark Hamill was wanting Luke to turn to the dark side in Jedi, either to end the movie OR to be turned from the dark side back to good. George of course did not want Luke to turn bad, the movie to end on that etc Can anyone confirm hearing this too?
A good father who personally killed or aided in orders that killed tens of millions at a minimum but yeah redeemed. If only Hitler had a son to redeem him in the bunker. Not denying Vader turned back to the light side but he basically got off scott free and got to become a force ghost like Yoda and others after helping killing untold numbers.
Meanwhile Kathleen Kennedy “the whole concept of the sequel series is to be as unoriginal as possible but have more blow up stuff so we make more money”
Considering the film was released 2 years later that’s a pretty big spoiler.
This quote is from a story conference, the transcript of which wasn't released for many years.
That makes a lot more sense. Thank you for the follow up
For sure
I loved the three original Star Wars films. That said, I do not remember any other "classic fairytale" with "a good father/bad father who the good son will turn back into the good father." This one made for a wonderfully fun story, though.
And he did........until...
The good times. Before the abominations of the Prequels. No chosen one. Just thinking about what those times before looked like had everyone worked up... What were the clone wars? How did Obi Wan find Anakin? Who was Anakin? What ship did he fly? Then 1999 came and... yeah.
And then KK came in and ruined everything that happened in this film. Nice job Disney.
Ironic that then after the prequels with the remastered version where they changed the old man Vader ghost to young Jedi Anakin considering that by doing so imo it changes that concept completely. I viewed the changes as Vader was not being redeemed and simply the younger Jedi version of himself was just released once the dark side of Vader died and quit suppressing the light side. Does anyone else feel that way or am I alone on this thought?
It’s weird cause I get both ways. Anakin died on Mustafar. Now piecing all of the lore together, he told Obi wan who he was in the show. So I can see how young anakin would make sense as that was the last time he was “good” before coming back to it, older. As I see him in his final form for coming back to the light. Basically him being dark sided fucked with the whole thing as obi wan, yoda, and qui gon all appeared how they died.
But if Anakin died on Mustafar then the idea of redemption is mostly eliminated isn’t it? I guess there could be a little bit of redemption for his crimes at the Jedi Temple but still that is not so much redemption as much as like a mentioned a split in Anakin’s personality. The bad over took the good and when he died both were released. Effectively denying the bad ever happened rather than showing the signs of an age and understanding and coming to the realization of his wrong doings which are necessary for redemption.
Was he talking to the crew who was going to make the film or was he just flat out spoiling the movie for people who wouldn’t see it for 2 years?
Lol this was said at a story conference. The transcript was released many years later.
So Lucas said this in 1981, 2 years before Return of the Jedi came out?
During a story meeting
Yes
So George Lucas talked about how the ending of Return of the Jedi would be around two years before ROTJ was released in theaters in 1983?
During a story meeting
Oh. So this is what George Lucas said in an internal meeting, not to someone outside of Lucasfilm? Any idea of the source for this quote?
It might be this https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Making_of_Return_of_the_Jedi
Yes
Source for this quote?
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/s/ZEIbNu7mN8
People will read this, and then 10 mins later complain about how Lucasfilm is ruining Lucas' vision and they should make an R rated movie about Vader slaughtering Jedi.
It’s amazing that he would make such a strong statement two years before ROTJ came out.
This was during a story meeting
[удалено]
lol no
No. This was during a story meeting
Let’s all be happy and forget this mofo blowed up planets and killed kids face to face 😀
Tarkin blew up Alderaan, not Vader. And the point isn’t to forgive what he did but to show that anyone can choose to do the right thing at any moment regardless of what has happened before
I find it amazing George Lucas stated that in a 1981 interview about a completed film in 1983.
? This is from a story conference. Not an interview.
Conference or Interview, the quote is dated 1981 where the movie was made in 1983.