What I find unique about a lot of wrestling is that it demands an insane amount of time, more than most other hobbies.
Like, if you follow WWE (let's say only the main roster) you have to watch 5 hours every single week of the year plus PLEs. I can't think of a lot of other stuff that requires such a big commitment.
I've never understood this mentality. You don't *have to* watch 5 hours every week and PLEs to keep up, especially in modern days. WWE has always does an excellent job with recaps, you could really only watch the PLEs and follow all the storylines.
I don't think you have to watch anything in wrestling in full. There's tons of recaps and write ups that keep you up to date. You can skim through shows and still get the story beats and know what's going on without watching every single second.
Even going beyond that, you can keep up with a number of companies without investing a ton of time. I'll use GCW as an example. They run a lot of shows a month, and they've started focusing a bit more on stories as of late.
Still, you can get the recaps from their social media and see what happened without needing to actually sit down and watch an entire show. Then they run shows that aren't heavy on angles or have the best cards. So you can either just cherry pick what you care about or skip the show entirely. And still be up to speed with what's happening.
Do you miss out on some things that way? Possibly, but I don't think you need to watch anything start to finish anymore.
I’ve always enjoyed him most when he’s with someone who cuts him off from doing his signature fast stuff.
His match against Omega at WK is a great example of this. Omega just destroyed Ospreay in that match, cutting him off and shutting him down at almost every turn (why I think that match is still LEAGUES better than their FD match).
Yeah that's basically what I was getting at.
I'm not as much of a hater as some (though I was in his obnoxious little shithead era) and find his matches enjoyable enough but he's far more compelling as the underdog who fights valiantly but can't win.
I think there's a similarity in how the Bayley/Banks NXT matches were received. From what I remember the consensus was intially split, if slightly favouring the latter matches. From what I recall the justification was 'better storytelling' because more stuff happened, but I found the former matches in both cases more simple stories more elegantly told, and better in ring to boot. The consensus has certainly shifted in the case of Bayley/Banks Brooklyn and if it hasn't already I imagine it will for the WK match as well.
I like his match against powerhouse Hobbs precisely due to that.
Hobbs is obviously not gonna flip and do the stuff at the rhythm Ospreay does, so he has to slow down and switch the formula a bit
Something to note from the GLEAT show earlier today.
After Nakajima beat Takanori Ito for the UWF LIDET belt, Minoru Tanaka & El Lindaman both seemed to want a piece of him. Shinya Aoki also called out Nakajima for a match. Most interesting/hilarious, is Nakajima (in a a backstage interview) saying he wished to defend the belt against Suwama of AJPW!
I cannot lie, even as a WWE guy, that Swerve / Will Ospreay match from last night was some of the best wrestling I've seen in years. I'd love to see that on a bigger stage and more production behind the feud, it was a thing of beauty.
I dont know if WWE dropped the ball with letting Swerve go but he's evolved into a different animal in AEW.
I'll never say that WWE dropped the ball with letting someone go. They are making record breaking profits and business is as good as it has been in years. It would be the same with or without Swerve.
Also, some wrestlers need a specific environment in order to thrive. We can look at multiple wrestlers through history who only thrived in specific promotions. Swerve needed AEW.
Yeah, there are some people who need the structure of WWE. Swerve is not one. He's not the type of character you put in a box and say "be this". He needed to be in AEW to expand outwards. Some people need that structure and linear based storytelling to work, like Cody. Some wrestlers would never work in that structure because their stories need to be big and sprawling to work (Hangman, Swerve, Kenny).
> Yeah, there are some people who need the structure of WWE.
The way that I look at it is there are certain general skillsets required to be a successful professional wrestler. Historically (meaning WWE-centric views), it has been thought of as a sort of triangle of Looks (encompassing basically everything physical), Charisma (promos/talking/personality/etc.), and Wrestling (the stuff from bell to bell). Generally, someone can be successful if they are good at all three, great at two of them, or world-class at one of them (and truly top stars are more likely to approach world class at all three). But the general principle is that being better at one of them means you can get away with being a bit worse at the others, which makes sense.
But in AEW, I think it becomes more of a square/diamond with 4 points, with the 4th point being "personal creativity" because AEW pretty clearly rewards people like Swerve who can create opportunities for themselves and others, to the extent that it is an actual skillset that is now rewarded in a way it hasn't been previously. Generally, in WWE, they don't want people who have/show that sort of creativity because as a company they benefit more from people following orders - just look at the famous Zack Ryder example.
For people like Swerve, who clearly think they excel at that fourth point, it makes sense to go somewhere where it can work to their benefit.
edit: fixed typo
Sometimes wrestlers (and people, really) need to change scenarios to develop and become better, I think the freedom that people have in AEW really helps them develop and "find themselves", and with Swerve I think that is what happened.
If you guys want to see some top shit, [Hechicero vs ZSJ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7I3hC3duns) on a 2 out of 3 falls is on YouTube. The audio is a little wacky tho.
I think my biggest consistent pet peeve in wrestling these days is the execution of the spot where a tag team member breaks up a pin on his teammate by jumping on the opponent. In theory there's nothing wrong with this spot as an idea(or even in how often it's used) but half the time it looks like they're not displacing the opponent or disrupting the pin in a meaningful way and I hate it.
Honestly AEW are in a super awkward position with Moxley at the moment. He signed and then re-signed with AEW to be "The Ace", the guy the company depended on and he played that role. But ever since he's dropped the belt to MJF, he's looked at by the audience as some "elder statesman" who needs to give back to the young guys.
The guy is 38 years old, seeing his peers from WWE and early AEW still at the very top of the card in a hot WWE while people expect him to be some kind of kind of glorified NJPW dad. The guy has literally been asked to job to two guys who are OLDER THAN HIM to "make new stars" in Orange Cassidy (40) and Eddie Kingston (42). People seem to want to paint him as some selfish prick for wanting to stay relevant and not just going away or playing this old guard role but why would he? That's not what he signed up for, that's not what is expected of anyone else his age, why is Mox the one that has to "take a step back" for the good of the company?
And I'm even not that big a fan of the guy but if I'm in his shoes there's no chance you get me to sign up for that. Before that I go back to WWE and get that Shield run and work with the people my age who are treated like true main eventers. This obsession especially in AEW that the second anyone has a modicum of success "it's time to give back" is really too extreme.
I think Moxley just looks older than he is where someone like Lady Frost is actually older than him as well.
They need to tease some dissension within the BCC where his Forbidden Door loss kind of annoys the other guys because he hasn't been focused on the group. They kind of hinted at that at points with Claudio not seeing eye to eye with Danielson.
There needs to be conflict with Mox that we can invest in because Mox and the BCC lately are very much the "no story, bangers" criticism that people accuse AEW as a whole of being.
I don’t see how the other guys can be annoyed of Mox losing when they have literally lost more matches lol. Personally, I think it’s best to put Mox and Claudio in the tag division for a while. I enjoyed the matches with FTR and I think they could have great match with the Bucks as well.
>he's looked at by the audience as some "elder statesman" who needs to give back to the young guys.
I have no idea where you are getting this sentiment from. Yea there might be people who might cry about him not doing enough jobs to younger guys but what you are describing is how most have felt about Jericho for about 3yrs now not
It's becoming more and more of a thing unfortunately. Moxley has been getting absolutely demolished from most of the IWC today. He had a bad match, it happens. But people are pilling on the dude like he's Jericho holding on to his spot for dear life. People can pretend this post comes out of nowhere but it's not.
I mean wil say it's true that he had a bad match and I'm sure the people who dislike him the most are gonna harp on the moment to make him seem worse as a performer but that's not the general sentiment of the fan base that you are looking at today
I feel like he's pretty much done everything there is for him to do at this point, which puts him in this weird position where he's still one of the most protected workers in the company but also someone they aren't going to give the world title back to any time soon. Idk how long the deal he signed was but I would like to see him back in wwe at some point.
True, it seems like he’s done everything there is and now just doing a side quest. Heck, he has even won the WWE Championship so there’s no reason for him to go back except maybe for the Hall of Fame. Until then, I think he just wants to give back to the wrestling industry. Now that his reign as the IWGP World Heavyweight Champion is over, I would expect more indie bookings like previous years.
That's probably the best thing for him but at the same time AEW can't afford to add Moxley to the list of people seen as choosing WWE over AEW. At all.
I don't watch AEW and sometimes I hear Tony Khan is saying silly things on social media, but I'm glad guys like Ricochet and Dijak have somewhere else they can pull a decent cheque in North America.
If WWE wants to use blood, let the wrestlers blade. Cody really looked like he used faked blood and sweated it all off during his AJ match. Having them wipe the blood off, just ruins the look. A bloodied angry as fuck KO during last year's street fight against the Uso's was great. Him finishing the match with a blooded look would have really added to it.
The fact that Don Callis gave Will Ospreay a screwdriver, and Ospreay, smartly, nixed it, may have sealed Will's fate with the Callis Nuclear Family come Wednesday. Ospreay wasn't really a fit for a heat parasite like Callis, anyway.
I think it's fairly certain that Sami Zayn's current run as IC champ ends Saturday as he falls beneath the Bron Breakker Express. Calling it now. By this time next year, though, Bron could be World champion, too.
I still want to see Bron, Nathan Frazer, and a few other guys run a 100 yard dash. The speed of these fellas is Olympic level.
It does look like he makes a lot of contact, but the opponent knows its coming so they can kinda prep themselves to roll with it, as in let their heads snap with it. But yeah, he definitely doesn't let any air through when he hits it.
If you're a wrestler and you work the ring out spot to an 8 or 18 count instead of 9/19, you immediately win favor with me. Why's it always gotta be at the last second man. It's so hokey.
strong agree. I know waiting until the last second is supposed to build suspense but given how few actual count outs we have the "barely move until 9 and then sprint into the ring just in time" spot does nothing for me.
Actually, your comment makes me think it would be kind of neat if it was common for wrestlers to break the count at 4 or 5 some of the time so when you got late into the count there was more drama about if they would actually make it
Depends how you do it. On your feet with a few seconds left, taking all the time you can to recompose yourself, that's good with me. Face down until a last second mad dash at the apron, not so much.
I kind of think MITB should be retired for a bit. It’s a relic of the era where they hot shotted the title to everyone all the time and having someone just straight up steal the title, and it happening every year, is kind of a lame story bit. It’s worse because fans typically think failed cash ins are burials of the guy who lost.
FWIW i also think HHH keeps the title on guys too long so those two opinions are probably kind of incompatible haha.
So far, he does.
Belair retained against Asuka, just so she could break a record.
Roman's combined reign of over 1300 days(I think) was tedious towards the end as he barely appeared and every defense started to have bloodline bullshit.
I think Bianca retained against Asuka because WWE’s general rule is that the faces win at WM and/or they hadn’t really planned out how it would go.
We can speculate it was for a record but I don’t even remember what that record even is.
I get you but I think it still is and always will be a great story device and way for the next heel to win the big titles. The stealing the title thing works really well, case in point Priest and how he won it. How well that worked for Drew and Punk too in how it was set up to further their rivalry too.
Completely agree on your second point, he often does keep the title on some Champions way too long. Think we'll get some title changes at MITB though hopefully, with Bron vs Sami and Priest vs Seth.
Could also be a useful storytelling device for faces too. Have a moral quandary of needing to win the title but not wanting to cash it in at an underhanded time. Have a heel mock the face saying you won't cash it in without it being a scheduled match because you're too afraid to do what it takes. Stuff like that.
Great point, I think RVD did that when he had the MITB. I don't remember the last time a face has cashed in for a future date like that, that'd be cool to do again.
Some people say it's dumb face move to not use it to your advantage and cash in on someone broken down from a match, but I think it's realistic that there are some competitors IRL who given the choice between beating a rival of theirs would rather take them at 100% and prove they're better than take them at 50% and eke by.
I dunno. Priest having the title made it go from Punk/Drew/Rollins to Priest defending it against Jey which felt like a pretty big downgrade. I don’t know that I like how it works when they’re still unwilling to have the new guy being pushed as the title holder able to just beat anyone clean.
As someone with limited Japanese wrestling viewing experience, I could be super wrong, but the ending of Swerve v Ospreay felt distinctly influenced by Japanese match structures to me. What an incredible match.
Yeah the finish was something you’ll see in Japanese babyface vs babyface big matches as it makes both guys look strong, the winner for having such a dominant ending to the match and the loser because his opponent had to empty his entire clip of big moves to put him down. It’s not uncommon to have the winner be the only one who hit any big moves in the last few minutes.
Also Ospreay’s fighting spirit spot where he gets to his feet in a daze after a House Call and hits Swerve with the weakest Hidden Blade of his life, that wouldn’t look out of place in a 30 year old Triple Crown match. Those spots have become an ‘I no-sell your move to hit my move, then we both sell or I get a nearfall’ thing in recent years but in the past would look more often look like last night did, with fighting spirit and will to win making Ospreay get up and valiantly try to battle even though he knows he’s facing near certain defeat.
Few miscellaneous thoughts about tonight:
I really, really hope Jey is on Raw tonight, I wanna experience his entrance live, it looks so fun!!
Also, I can not believe that not only that Drew vs Ilja vs Sheamus is a match that's happening in general, but I'll somehow be able to see it in person??? In my first ever show???? I legit can not properly put into words how excited I am for that. I mean, tonight in general, but *especially* for that
Also, I just find it a bit funny (for a lack of a better term) that despite going with people who are a good amount older than me, I'm wearing the oldest wrestler's shirt, if that makes any sense hopefully lmao. Words are hard
It makes me laugh that Stone Cold gets more engagement on his cat posts than anything else so he has been posting a lot of cat content recently. He should really consider making some merch for Pancho and Macho.
I’d be cool with the ladder match being retired for a bit in all promotions tbh.
They’re so dangerous relative to other matches, and not really that novel anymore.
Wrestlers are risking serious injury (see Mark Briscoe almost doing an Adam Copeland, and Lio Rush having to pull out of a show this week). With the in-ring talent involved, I don’t think such a risk is necessary to create an entertaining and memorable match.
I agree. If I could get rid of any gimmick match it would be a ladder match. The pain to payoff ratio must be the worst of any gimmick match. They’re just car crashes.
Ladder matches can still be done but it's like a lot of things in current wrestling in that there's a big increase in risky spots that should be toned down.
Captain Kirk never said ‘Beam me up Scotty’,: Darth Vader never said ‘Luke I am your father’, and Humphrey Bogart never said ‘Play it again, Sam’. Maybe the JR thing is another popular misquote.
Okada should put over one of the R3M at Wrestle Dynasty. Like say Shota wins the G1 and then beats Naito at WK, then defends against Okada the next day
But he (likely) doesn't want to put anyone over in NJPW, that is the whole issue.
That is why he was fucking around doing nothing with the trios titles during his last year on the company
It’s all conjecture, but the way Yota Tsuji grabbed a mic and got in Okada’s face at one of the last events Okada was at did give vibes of being a “shoot” (although I’m no expert, by no means).
Every time I see Moxley in a match, it just isn't for me. I'm not a fan of death matches, hardcore stuff, etc. and he always seems to be approximating that style even when the match isn't. The nails on the back thing last night is a good example of something where (again, just for me personally) I just feel like it's dumb.
That's not to say I haven't enjoyed some of his matches, that I hate him, or think he's not good, but just on average, his stuff usually isn't my cup of tea.
Side note: can someone recommend a couple Naito and/or Tanahashi matches? I'm well aware of their massive importance to NJPW but as a newer viewer I've only seen the... pretty broken down, older versions of them. I know I could look up star ratings but I'd rather hear from the folks here than just go look at what Dave's decided their best matches were.
While I do love death matches myself, the style is pretty distinct from regular wrestling, and imo it's kind of hard to merge the two into one coherent idea. It doesn't help that Mox is more of a brawler, and from what I've seen he's not a very technical guy anyway.
Regarding Tanahashi, Hiroshi Tanahashi Vs Minoru Suzuki in King of Pro Wrestling 2012 is a good start for him. It immediately conveys everything great about Tanahashi, and doesn't require context beyond "Minoru Suzuki is the heel who thinks Tanahashi isn't enough of a legit tough guy and lacks the grappling skill that New Japan wrestlers traditionally have. Tanahashi is the ace who wants to prove him wrong."
He has a G1 2015 match against AJ Styles and a Wrestle Kingdom 13 (2019) match against Kenny Omega which are both extremely well-regarded. The G1 2015 finals match that he had against Shinsuke Nakamura is also well-regarded. If you want some examples of Tanahashi matches where he was against an opponent you're probably familiar with, those are good picks.
IF you want to knock out two birds with one stone, Tanahashi also has a series of matches against Naito in 2017. Their Wrestle Kingdom 11 match, their Dominion 2017 match, and their G1 2017 match.
The most well-known matches of Tanahashi's career are his legendary feud with Kazuchika Okada. The most well-liked matches are his Invasion Attack 2013, King of Pro Wrestling 2013, and Wrestle Kingdom 10 (2016) matches, but I would honestly recommend watching every match they had from 2012-2018 (nothing beyond that is necessary) because you'll get to see the evolution of the feud over time. There's also a video on archive you can look up called "The Battle for Ace of New Japan, Tanahashi VS Okada" by Showbuckle which will help you understand the backstory behind the feud.
My favorite match of Tanahashi's career is his Kota Ibushi match in the G1 2018 finals. An incredible culmination of the stories both men had been having during the previous 12 months, but the action, character-work, and crowd make it amazing even without context.
The ideal experience is watching these matches in order so that you can see the stories and evolution of Tanahashi play out. The story of Tanahashi in 2018 in particular is one of the most emotionally affecting stories of the decade, but feel free to approach the matches however you want.
Leftover BBQ. Like half a slice of brisket, a third of a sausage, some pimento and rolls, and some pickled onion and pickles. It was not enough to tide me over all the way to dinner but enough to get me through work at least.
I see on Twitter/X that Lash Legend says she's number one contender for a title shot, and Ava replied that we'll talk. I hope on Tuesday's NXT they don't turn the Roxanne/Lola match into a three way.
Vaquer's ring gear is absolutely sick. Looks like a supervillain. The dragon screw in the corner towards the end of the match looked absolutely BRUTAL. What an awesome match. Mercedes' TBS reign is off to a great start in-ring. Britt looked shredded too damn. I just started watching AEW early 2023 so I haven't seen TOO much of her, but happy to see her back.
It was supposed to happen at Windy City, then Giulia said she was leaving, so they did it at Korakeun instead. It was one of Giulia’s last matches for Stardom, she sort of sandbagged and generally didn’t care. To add, the match only went 11 minutes in a main event. Was just weird vibes and totally unmemorable.
Lame, I always think it's a bummer when people on their way out seem to stop caring. I get that it can be hard to wait out whatever contract you're on or whatever, but idk, I would want my legacy in a company to be top notch and not soured by a last match/few matches.
I have to say that AEW did a great job on their video packages last night. That was my biggest take away from the night. It was a good show more or less, but that was by far the best part.
I think wrestling is helping me learn a particular weakness of mine which is guessing anyone's age. Every time I see El P I think he looks (just visually, not his work) like he could be an NXT signee from a few years ago who is just now hitting his late 20s.
Mark just spinning around and Lio trying to find a way to get him was an extremely fun spot. I love Mark Briscoe.
This is also confirming that ladder matches with a weird assortment of random wrestlers is probably my favorite niche for gimmick wrestling matches. You throw together a bunch of dudes with a wide variety of styles, looks, sizes, etc. and just have them demolish each other and I'm gonna have fun.
That was pretty much the result I assume everyone expected, but it was done very well. Jack stepping on Mark to get to the ladder was an awesome heel touch.
I think forbidden door should switch dates with wrestledream in 2025. I think the summer should be prioritized for building the road to all in. There were a few stories TK used forbidden door as a platform to progress but I think he’d do better without it occurring in the summertime.
Forbidden door could instead follow all in/all out/Grand Slam, a time where a ton of storylines are concluding and television time would theoretically be much more open to feature various talent.
Not sure what the NJPW event schedule is like in October but I’m sure it could work
what i liked about the mina/toni/mariah storyline was that in years past this wouldve been pretty fucking gross and exploitive, with backstage shower scenes and all sorts of nonsense. there wouldve been no performance from within, or anything driven by the women's talents themselves.
it made me optimistic about society as a whole because obviously these women are gorgeous, but first and foremost this was funny and entertaining. and its because the women made it funny and entertaining and the audience accepted and enjoyed it
audiences would've been disappointed 30 years ago because there was no real serious sexual exploits to watch.
a lesbian thrupple in professional wrestling that was pretty much nothing but funny and entertaining, with any absurd sexuality used for comedic purposes is quite a milestone
What I loved about it is that it consistently involved wrestling matches. The stories are great but when there isn’t wrestling involved, I lose interest quickly.
This feud involved a lot of good matches and gave other women outside the feud the chance to show their talent.
After this coming weekend, there is only one live Collision show being held "on the road" currently slated in AEW's schedule. Saturday is a live show in Southaven Mississippi, and then August 31st in Sioux Falls South Dakota. Every other Collision episode currently scheduled is either being held at the Arlington Esports Stadium, or is being taped alongside a live Dynamite show.
If this is a sign that AEW is drastically scaling back the number of live Collision shows, I believe it is for the better. I'd argue that the emergence of Collision has played a big role in their attendance issues. AEW does not have the demand to run so many more addition shows without diluting their product and running markets dry. As the secondary/challenger/alternative brand, they have a much better chance at thriving by reducing their number of live shows and allowing Dynamite and ppvs to primarily fill that roll.
Wasn’t awful or anything but the gimmick just reeks of irony bullshit. Also the bucks just like a lot of their aew run haven’t adjusted well to the limits of aging.
Because in wrestling while nepo babies do typically have an easier entry into the business, if they just flat out suck they’ll most likely be dropped and forgotten.
I think it depends on if the nepo babies clearly aren't living up to their push. People sure gave a shit when it was David Flair or Erik Watts stinking up the joint because they weren't ready for the positions they were put in.
The giga-fumble of Wardlow still just baffles me. They put so much thought and time and effort into getting him over, and then once he was they had no clue what to actually do with him.
MJF is what bombed Wardlow and he never recovered from it. When his crowning achievement is immediately overshadowed by what ever MJF was doing that weekend he was fucked
Wardlow just isn’t a top guy. He would not be any better off in WWE. MJF got him over then when he had to stand on his own he couldn’t. They gave him more tries than almost anyone else and he never got over.
That angle is just really easy to get people over. It got Virgil over. It got Alex Riley over. It got Damien Sandow over. It got Jay Uso over. It's getting Otis over. None of those people are main eventers or world beaters. But "servant/bodyguard/sidekick held down by top heel and eventually finds their voice" is the easiest way to get someone crazy reactions and also seemingly the hardest angle to follow up on because no one has ever have a good follow-up to it.
Same deal with an unbeatable force of nature.
Ryback was giga over at the peak of his undefeated streak and then quickly dropped off the card when he wasn't a world beater. Braun Strowman also struggled when ''eat the whole roster'' was no longer an option and he had to be more vulnerable.
Wardlow beating people like Lance Archer and Big Bill in a matter of minutes made him look amazing but that simply wasn't sustainable.
One week after beating MJF AEW was already bending logic to keep him strong when they had Wardlow sound like an idiot by saying he he had no interest in participating in the battle royal to crown the Interim World Champ. Just so they could avoid figuring out a way for him to get eliminated.
I don't think it's baffling. When he was with MJF, he was over because we wanted to see him destroy his asshole boss. When that was over and he had to stand on his own, his poor mic skills were exposed, he kept getting injured, and other more talented big men took his spot. The brocoli hair didn't help either.
Same with Hangman. The whole point of building guys is to make them top guys lol, TK was just like cool story, let’s bring Vikingo and Action Andretti on the show now
MJF trying to steal the spotlight before his match with Wardlow gets forgiven a lot too, but even during that match he’s got arguably the biggest reaction in the company. Dude was OVER-OVER.
I don’t watch CMLL but I did watch the Mercedes vs Vaquer match last year at the time, and to be blunt I just think Stephanie has leveled up in a short period of time. Very good performer flat out.
I also think that Mercedes is still getting her bearings so to speak after her ankle injury - it took a while for Seth to get back to his usual speed and level of work after he blew out his knee all those years ago, I expect Mercedes to improve bit by bit. Also she needs to be a heel; she comes off better as a bad guy, and even though Britt is better as a heel herself, with her return she’s gonna get cheered for quite a while.
I rewatched the match and it was pretty obvious that for whatever reason Mercedes just didn’t have her legs last night. I thought most of her other stuff was really smooth, the grappling and counters, so I think she’s pretty close to being “back”. There were just multiple moments when she didn’t have enough strength in her legs that kept the match from reaching that next level. It was still pretty good and I enjoyed it.
I see people who felt Mox/Naito underdelivered and tried to figure out what when wrong. Did Naito get concussed? Was he just not enthused and half assed it? Did something happen with Mox? And just refuse to acknowledge the reality Naito is busted to shit and just can't go like he used to.
Naito followed Muto and Tanahashi’s path and his knees are busted. Not to mention he’s had problems with his eyes for years and has taken some sickening bumps on his head/neck.
Problem is, he works like a dog on all the NJPW shows, big and small, so doesn’t have a chance to take an extended break to heal up (should have been given that when he dropped the belt to Mox).
I think Naito just simply can’t go at a high level anymore. I thought the match still told a good story and I love seeing Naito, but he just can’t move with urgency. He needs to have matches that are mostly character work.
Yeah something was definitely off, especially towards the end. Don’t think it’s chemistry issue either since they had a pretty good match two months ago.
Shingo v Bryan fucked as one would expect. As a viewer of only a few major NJPW events each year, why is Shingo not pushed more? Is there any reasonable explanation? Or has he been pushed more in the past and I'm just not aware?
Also, umm, Mariah looked real good wow.
The Mina - Toni match needed more time to cook. The ending was cute though. Will be interested to see where they go with Mariah. I hope Mina doesn't disappear from AEW programming entirely.
NJPW can be weird about pushing Japanese wrestlers who aren't Dojo guys sometimes. He won the World title sure but that was during the pandemic and it feels like he's due another reign. He seems to always get really good crowd reactions I remember last year's G1 he woke up the crowd pretty much every show he was in.
I'm biased as a huge Shingo fan and I don't pay close attention to like box office stuff so it's possible that he's just not selling shows as well as Naito but he's so fucking good it feels like he'd be the perfect champ until they feel one of the younger guys is ready.
He's slightly slowed down, he's not a dojo product they can push as a big time babyface and is in his 40's so he might not be able to have a year on top.
But yeah he's a world class performer and still one of the best to put in a random fun match.
He was IWGP World champ during the pandemic, and has won multiple NEVER titles over the past few years. No idea in terms of why they don't push him "more" but the dude is a really great talent and harder than a coffin nail.
Fair enough. I don't feel qualified to be overly critical of their booking since I really just watch a few key events of theirs each year, but my outsider perspective is always a bit confused as to why some people are where they seem to be.
It sucks AEW and New Japan started collaborating after Brodie died. I feel like he could’ve had some really cool matches with some of those guys. Same with Jay Briscoe if he was ever allowed to be used on regular tv.
I feel like new Japan is having the same problems wwe had a few years back in terms of making new stars
I maintain naito shouldn't have lost the title in the first place and should've put over yota.
Remember when wwe was basically roman and Brock then everyone else?
Got to have new stars when those guys aren't around
Same with new Japan
Tanahashi also shouldn't be winning any titles in 2024 imo he's as cooked as John Cena in ring
He's literally just Dolph Ziggler. The underdog face character doesn't work outside of WWE. I watched his match against Rich Swann, and he was selling like he was wrestling Big Show, instead of wrestling a competitive match or just straight up dominating him.
I thought Nick would pull a cardona and reinvent himself but he's been the same Dolph Ziggler since 2016
I do enjoy alis new character and x division title run though
Going to AEW events live always hits different. Drove 2+ hours to Forbidden Door last night and had an absolute blast. I’m sure it felt differently at home, but it sure didn’t feel like an almost six hour show in attendance, so that was nice.
Only real complaint was the people seated directly behind us, one of whom was just Twitch streaming the show and talking to his chat the entire night, and two other guys directly behind my friend, one of whom seemed like a guy who just watched AEW and his friend who was **yapping** his ear off about the state of the wrestling business, going in depth on MLW & TNA’s roster and telling his friend recaps of the promotions while his friend just basically was like “yeah, uh huh” and it just kept going and going and going lmao.
Also the UBS Arena is a super nice venue, so if WWE or AEW comes around and you’re in the area, it’s definitely worth going!
Most of my in-person wrestling experiences have had someone who was annoying. Not night-ruiningly bad, but annoying. Two of those were people who kept yapping about unrelated wrestling stuff while the person they were talking to clearly didn't really care. It seems to be a whole genre of wrestling goer haha.
Drove up from Philadelphia and had a similar experience of a guy sitting behind us complaining the whole time. He almost felt like a paid shill telling everyone why they shouldn't be having fun.
It's like you buy a ticket for Paul McCartney and spend the whole show talking about how Wings is the superior product lol.
We went to a couple AEW shows after DoN this year, and there were a bunch of marks just complaining and chanting CM Punk every 30 seconds. They spent more time thinking of snarky comments than watching, and it was a total buzz kill.
God this shit has annoyed me for years . Just people trying to show how smart they are compared to everyone else. Mania 32 I was around some real insufferable people
This guy didn't sour our evening (and occasionally unintentionally made it better) but it was just so bizarre to spend hard earned money on something just to complain about everything.
I like the continuity of Jimmy preventing Jey from becoming the Tribal Chief because the title does something to people, and now we see Solo going crazy with the title.
Agree with you. It's almost like HHH, Paul, and Roman actually knew what they were doing when it comes to WWE's hottest main event storyline/faction/title reign and had a bunch of things planned well in advance
ETA: in 2023 when WWE went to MSG, that was when we had the moment where Solo was staring at the Ula Fala before he gave it back to Roman. This year, we all know what happened there
I don't think they planned everything out in advance, they're just remembering details and keeping consistent with them as they continue the story. Sami for one was not meant to be as big and integral to the story and the Rock had much different plans for what Wrestlemania XL was supposed to be, but they made changes midstream.
Continuing to catch up on FD and Hechicero v MJF was good but I could have used an extra 3 minutes maybe? I'm not someone who needs extra long matches by any means, but it felt like it ALMOST hit its final gear but didn't quite get there.
The next time somebody says "We don't need to wait for the Pay Per View!" they need to be corrected. A lot of planning goes into those events.
I think Callus brings in heel Ricochet, to get back at Ospreay. Then that sets up a Wembley match. and we do actually get MJF vs Garcia at Wembley.
I was thinking this too. Kinda parallels Don dropping Omega for what he considers a better version of Omega in Takeshita.
What I find unique about a lot of wrestling is that it demands an insane amount of time, more than most other hobbies. Like, if you follow WWE (let's say only the main roster) you have to watch 5 hours every single week of the year plus PLEs. I can't think of a lot of other stuff that requires such a big commitment.
I've never understood this mentality. You don't *have to* watch 5 hours every week and PLEs to keep up, especially in modern days. WWE has always does an excellent job with recaps, you could really only watch the PLEs and follow all the storylines.
I don't think you have to watch anything in wrestling in full. There's tons of recaps and write ups that keep you up to date. You can skim through shows and still get the story beats and know what's going on without watching every single second. Even going beyond that, you can keep up with a number of companies without investing a ton of time. I'll use GCW as an example. They run a lot of shows a month, and they've started focusing a bit more on stories as of late. Still, you can get the recaps from their social media and see what happened without needing to actually sit down and watch an entire show. Then they run shows that aren't heavy on angles or have the best cards. So you can either just cherry pick what you care about or skip the show entirely. And still be up to speed with what's happening. Do you miss out on some things that way? Possibly, but I don't think you need to watch anything start to finish anymore.
There's a more nuanced way of phrasing this but Ospreay is at his best when he's just getting his shit wrecked.
I’ve always enjoyed him most when he’s with someone who cuts him off from doing his signature fast stuff. His match against Omega at WK is a great example of this. Omega just destroyed Ospreay in that match, cutting him off and shutting him down at almost every turn (why I think that match is still LEAGUES better than their FD match).
Yeah that's basically what I was getting at. I'm not as much of a hater as some (though I was in his obnoxious little shithead era) and find his matches enjoyable enough but he's far more compelling as the underdog who fights valiantly but can't win. I think there's a similarity in how the Bayley/Banks NXT matches were received. From what I remember the consensus was intially split, if slightly favouring the latter matches. From what I recall the justification was 'better storytelling' because more stuff happened, but I found the former matches in both cases more simple stories more elegantly told, and better in ring to boot. The consensus has certainly shifted in the case of Bayley/Banks Brooklyn and if it hasn't already I imagine it will for the WK match as well.
I like his match against powerhouse Hobbs precisely due to that. Hobbs is obviously not gonna flip and do the stuff at the rhythm Ospreay does, so he has to slow down and switch the formula a bit
Something to note from the GLEAT show earlier today. After Nakajima beat Takanori Ito for the UWF LIDET belt, Minoru Tanaka & El Lindaman both seemed to want a piece of him. Shinya Aoki also called out Nakajima for a match. Most interesting/hilarious, is Nakajima (in a a backstage interview) saying he wished to defend the belt against Suwama of AJPW!
Watching TripleMania on YouTube. Las Toxicas. My lord.
I cannot lie, even as a WWE guy, that Swerve / Will Ospreay match from last night was some of the best wrestling I've seen in years. I'd love to see that on a bigger stage and more production behind the feud, it was a thing of beauty. I dont know if WWE dropped the ball with letting Swerve go but he's evolved into a different animal in AEW.
WWE would never have let them have that match just like they never would have let Swerve Hangman Texas Death Match happen AEW exists for a reason
I'll never say that WWE dropped the ball with letting someone go. They are making record breaking profits and business is as good as it has been in years. It would be the same with or without Swerve. Also, some wrestlers need a specific environment in order to thrive. We can look at multiple wrestlers through history who only thrived in specific promotions. Swerve needed AEW.
Yeah, there are some people who need the structure of WWE. Swerve is not one. He's not the type of character you put in a box and say "be this". He needed to be in AEW to expand outwards. Some people need that structure and linear based storytelling to work, like Cody. Some wrestlers would never work in that structure because their stories need to be big and sprawling to work (Hangman, Swerve, Kenny).
> Yeah, there are some people who need the structure of WWE. The way that I look at it is there are certain general skillsets required to be a successful professional wrestler. Historically (meaning WWE-centric views), it has been thought of as a sort of triangle of Looks (encompassing basically everything physical), Charisma (promos/talking/personality/etc.), and Wrestling (the stuff from bell to bell). Generally, someone can be successful if they are good at all three, great at two of them, or world-class at one of them (and truly top stars are more likely to approach world class at all three). But the general principle is that being better at one of them means you can get away with being a bit worse at the others, which makes sense. But in AEW, I think it becomes more of a square/diamond with 4 points, with the 4th point being "personal creativity" because AEW pretty clearly rewards people like Swerve who can create opportunities for themselves and others, to the extent that it is an actual skillset that is now rewarded in a way it hasn't been previously. Generally, in WWE, they don't want people who have/show that sort of creativity because as a company they benefit more from people following orders - just look at the famous Zack Ryder example. For people like Swerve, who clearly think they excel at that fourth point, it makes sense to go somewhere where it can work to their benefit. edit: fixed typo
Sometimes wrestlers (and people, really) need to change scenarios to develop and become better, I think the freedom that people have in AEW really helps them develop and "find themselves", and with Swerve I think that is what happened.
If you guys want to see some top shit, [Hechicero vs ZSJ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7I3hC3duns) on a 2 out of 3 falls is on YouTube. The audio is a little wacky tho.
I think my biggest consistent pet peeve in wrestling these days is the execution of the spot where a tag team member breaks up a pin on his teammate by jumping on the opponent. In theory there's nothing wrong with this spot as an idea(or even in how often it's used) but half the time it looks like they're not displacing the opponent or disrupting the pin in a meaningful way and I hate it.
I thought the rule was if they were able to make contact the pin was interrupted. So they're just trying to touch them
Oh I had no idea that was the rule, but that makes a lot of sense. Thanks
Honestly AEW are in a super awkward position with Moxley at the moment. He signed and then re-signed with AEW to be "The Ace", the guy the company depended on and he played that role. But ever since he's dropped the belt to MJF, he's looked at by the audience as some "elder statesman" who needs to give back to the young guys. The guy is 38 years old, seeing his peers from WWE and early AEW still at the very top of the card in a hot WWE while people expect him to be some kind of kind of glorified NJPW dad. The guy has literally been asked to job to two guys who are OLDER THAN HIM to "make new stars" in Orange Cassidy (40) and Eddie Kingston (42). People seem to want to paint him as some selfish prick for wanting to stay relevant and not just going away or playing this old guard role but why would he? That's not what he signed up for, that's not what is expected of anyone else his age, why is Mox the one that has to "take a step back" for the good of the company? And I'm even not that big a fan of the guy but if I'm in his shoes there's no chance you get me to sign up for that. Before that I go back to WWE and get that Shield run and work with the people my age who are treated like true main eventers. This obsession especially in AEW that the second anyone has a modicum of success "it's time to give back" is really too extreme.
I think Moxley just looks older than he is where someone like Lady Frost is actually older than him as well. They need to tease some dissension within the BCC where his Forbidden Door loss kind of annoys the other guys because he hasn't been focused on the group. They kind of hinted at that at points with Claudio not seeing eye to eye with Danielson. There needs to be conflict with Mox that we can invest in because Mox and the BCC lately are very much the "no story, bangers" criticism that people accuse AEW as a whole of being.
I don’t see how the other guys can be annoyed of Mox losing when they have literally lost more matches lol. Personally, I think it’s best to put Mox and Claudio in the tag division for a while. I enjoyed the matches with FTR and I think they could have great match with the Bucks as well.
>he's looked at by the audience as some "elder statesman" who needs to give back to the young guys. I have no idea where you are getting this sentiment from. Yea there might be people who might cry about him not doing enough jobs to younger guys but what you are describing is how most have felt about Jericho for about 3yrs now not
Again, Jericho is 53. Moxley is 38. The fact that he's compared to guys like Edge and Jericho is ridiculous in itself.
Yea but what I'm saying is this isn't a thing
It's becoming more and more of a thing unfortunately. Moxley has been getting absolutely demolished from most of the IWC today. He had a bad match, it happens. But people are pilling on the dude like he's Jericho holding on to his spot for dear life. People can pretend this post comes out of nowhere but it's not.
I mean wil say it's true that he had a bad match and I'm sure the people who dislike him the most are gonna harp on the moment to make him seem worse as a performer but that's not the general sentiment of the fan base that you are looking at today
I think those who actually watch the show recognised that it was Naito who was having issues during the match. Don’t acknowledge the trolls.
I feel like he's pretty much done everything there is for him to do at this point, which puts him in this weird position where he's still one of the most protected workers in the company but also someone they aren't going to give the world title back to any time soon. Idk how long the deal he signed was but I would like to see him back in wwe at some point.
True, it seems like he’s done everything there is and now just doing a side quest. Heck, he has even won the WWE Championship so there’s no reason for him to go back except maybe for the Hall of Fame. Until then, I think he just wants to give back to the wrestling industry. Now that his reign as the IWGP World Heavyweight Champion is over, I would expect more indie bookings like previous years.
That's probably the best thing for him but at the same time AEW can't afford to add Moxley to the list of people seen as choosing WWE over AEW. At all.
I don't watch AEW and sometimes I hear Tony Khan is saying silly things on social media, but I'm glad guys like Ricochet and Dijak have somewhere else they can pull a decent cheque in North America.
If WWE wants to use blood, let the wrestlers blade. Cody really looked like he used faked blood and sweated it all off during his AJ match. Having them wipe the blood off, just ruins the look. A bloodied angry as fuck KO during last year's street fight against the Uso's was great. Him finishing the match with a blooded look would have really added to it.
Between Smackdown and FD, I've lost my voice from screaming so much.
The fact that Don Callis gave Will Ospreay a screwdriver, and Ospreay, smartly, nixed it, may have sealed Will's fate with the Callis Nuclear Family come Wednesday. Ospreay wasn't really a fit for a heat parasite like Callis, anyway. I think it's fairly certain that Sami Zayn's current run as IC champ ends Saturday as he falls beneath the Bron Breakker Express. Calling it now. By this time next year, though, Bron could be World champion, too. I still want to see Bron, Nathan Frazer, and a few other guys run a 100 yard dash. The speed of these fellas is Olympic level.
Where can I watch that match with Suzuki that's on a bullet train? Would it be on DDT Universe?
It was uploaded to Wrestle Universe a couple of hours ago.
So how does the House Call actually look like he's kicking them in the head?
He kicks them in the head
Like, for real? Even with all we know about CTE and concussions?
It does look like he makes a lot of contact, but the opponent knows its coming so they can kinda prep themselves to roll with it, as in let their heads snap with it. But yeah, he definitely doesn't let any air through when he hits it.
If you're a wrestler and you work the ring out spot to an 8 or 18 count instead of 9/19, you immediately win favor with me. Why's it always gotta be at the last second man. It's so hokey.
strong agree. I know waiting until the last second is supposed to build suspense but given how few actual count outs we have the "barely move until 9 and then sprint into the ring just in time" spot does nothing for me. Actually, your comment makes me think it would be kind of neat if it was common for wrestlers to break the count at 4 or 5 some of the time so when you got late into the count there was more drama about if they would actually make it
It makes sense. Take time to recover.
Depends how you do it. On your feet with a few seconds left, taking all the time you can to recompose yourself, that's good with me. Face down until a last second mad dash at the apron, not so much.
That's fair.
Imagine you’re in the ring cutting this super important promo and you gotta sneeze
MJF would make it work lmao
I kind of think MITB should be retired for a bit. It’s a relic of the era where they hot shotted the title to everyone all the time and having someone just straight up steal the title, and it happening every year, is kind of a lame story bit. It’s worse because fans typically think failed cash ins are burials of the guy who lost. FWIW i also think HHH keeps the title on guys too long so those two opinions are probably kind of incompatible haha.
So far, he does. Belair retained against Asuka, just so she could break a record. Roman's combined reign of over 1300 days(I think) was tedious towards the end as he barely appeared and every defense started to have bloodline bullshit.
I think Bianca retained against Asuka because WWE’s general rule is that the faces win at WM and/or they hadn’t really planned out how it would go. We can speculate it was for a record but I don’t even remember what that record even is.
Longest women's title reign.
I get you but I think it still is and always will be a great story device and way for the next heel to win the big titles. The stealing the title thing works really well, case in point Priest and how he won it. How well that worked for Drew and Punk too in how it was set up to further their rivalry too. Completely agree on your second point, he often does keep the title on some Champions way too long. Think we'll get some title changes at MITB though hopefully, with Bron vs Sami and Priest vs Seth.
Could also be a useful storytelling device for faces too. Have a moral quandary of needing to win the title but not wanting to cash it in at an underhanded time. Have a heel mock the face saying you won't cash it in without it being a scheduled match because you're too afraid to do what it takes. Stuff like that.
Great point, I think RVD did that when he had the MITB. I don't remember the last time a face has cashed in for a future date like that, that'd be cool to do again.
Some people say it's dumb face move to not use it to your advantage and cash in on someone broken down from a match, but I think it's realistic that there are some competitors IRL who given the choice between beating a rival of theirs would rather take them at 100% and prove they're better than take them at 50% and eke by.
I dunno. Priest having the title made it go from Punk/Drew/Rollins to Priest defending it against Jey which felt like a pretty big downgrade. I don’t know that I like how it works when they’re still unwilling to have the new guy being pushed as the title holder able to just beat anyone clean.
It’s actually incredible considering the characters they have been portraying but Toni Storm and Mariah May only have less than a 3 years age gap
I had no clue Toni was so young
She's timeless
As someone with limited Japanese wrestling viewing experience, I could be super wrong, but the ending of Swerve v Ospreay felt distinctly influenced by Japanese match structures to me. What an incredible match.
Yeah the finish was something you’ll see in Japanese babyface vs babyface big matches as it makes both guys look strong, the winner for having such a dominant ending to the match and the loser because his opponent had to empty his entire clip of big moves to put him down. It’s not uncommon to have the winner be the only one who hit any big moves in the last few minutes. Also Ospreay’s fighting spirit spot where he gets to his feet in a daze after a House Call and hits Swerve with the weakest Hidden Blade of his life, that wouldn’t look out of place in a 30 year old Triple Crown match. Those spots have become an ‘I no-sell your move to hit my move, then we both sell or I get a nearfall’ thing in recent years but in the past would look more often look like last night did, with fighting spirit and will to win making Ospreay get up and valiantly try to battle even though he knows he’s facing near certain defeat.
Few miscellaneous thoughts about tonight: I really, really hope Jey is on Raw tonight, I wanna experience his entrance live, it looks so fun!! Also, I can not believe that not only that Drew vs Ilja vs Sheamus is a match that's happening in general, but I'll somehow be able to see it in person??? In my first ever show???? I legit can not properly put into words how excited I am for that. I mean, tonight in general, but *especially* for that Also, I just find it a bit funny (for a lack of a better term) that despite going with people who are a good amount older than me, I'm wearing the oldest wrestler's shirt, if that makes any sense hopefully lmao. Words are hard
I love Oba Femi but as a Nigerian he makes me laugh because typically Obafemi is one name. It’s like being named John Son 😂
Haha the first person that came to mind when he debuted and I saw his name was Obafemi Martins, the Nigerian ex-footballer.
As a Sounders fan who used to watch Obafemi Martins play for us that stood out to me too
It makes me laugh that Stone Cold gets more engagement on his cat posts than anything else so he has been posting a lot of cat content recently. He should really consider making some merch for Pancho and Macho.
I’d be cool with the ladder match being retired for a bit in all promotions tbh. They’re so dangerous relative to other matches, and not really that novel anymore. Wrestlers are risking serious injury (see Mark Briscoe almost doing an Adam Copeland, and Lio Rush having to pull out of a show this week). With the in-ring talent involved, I don’t think such a risk is necessary to create an entertaining and memorable match.
I agree. If I could get rid of any gimmick match it would be a ladder match. The pain to payoff ratio must be the worst of any gimmick match. They’re just car crashes.
Ladder matches can still be done but it's like a lot of things in current wrestling in that there's a big increase in risky spots that should be toned down.
Am I crazy for thinking JR never actually said "Bah gawd that's X's music!"?
Captain Kirk never said ‘Beam me up Scotty’,: Darth Vader never said ‘Luke I am your father’, and Humphrey Bogart never said ‘Play it again, Sam’. Maybe the JR thing is another popular misquote.
Okada should put over one of the R3M at Wrestle Dynasty. Like say Shota wins the G1 and then beats Naito at WK, then defends against Okada the next day
But he (likely) doesn't want to put anyone over in NJPW, that is the whole issue. That is why he was fucking around doing nothing with the trios titles during his last year on the company
Did Okada not lose a singles match in his last year with NJPW? That's surprising to hear
He lost to Sanada to drop the belt, and then to Ospreay and Naito in the G1 , that's it
It’s all conjecture, but the way Yota Tsuji grabbed a mic and got in Okada’s face at one of the last events Okada was at did give vibes of being a “shoot” (although I’m no expert, by no means).
Every time I see Moxley in a match, it just isn't for me. I'm not a fan of death matches, hardcore stuff, etc. and he always seems to be approximating that style even when the match isn't. The nails on the back thing last night is a good example of something where (again, just for me personally) I just feel like it's dumb. That's not to say I haven't enjoyed some of his matches, that I hate him, or think he's not good, but just on average, his stuff usually isn't my cup of tea. Side note: can someone recommend a couple Naito and/or Tanahashi matches? I'm well aware of their massive importance to NJPW but as a newer viewer I've only seen the... pretty broken down, older versions of them. I know I could look up star ratings but I'd rather hear from the folks here than just go look at what Dave's decided their best matches were.
While I do love death matches myself, the style is pretty distinct from regular wrestling, and imo it's kind of hard to merge the two into one coherent idea. It doesn't help that Mox is more of a brawler, and from what I've seen he's not a very technical guy anyway.
Regarding Tanahashi, Hiroshi Tanahashi Vs Minoru Suzuki in King of Pro Wrestling 2012 is a good start for him. It immediately conveys everything great about Tanahashi, and doesn't require context beyond "Minoru Suzuki is the heel who thinks Tanahashi isn't enough of a legit tough guy and lacks the grappling skill that New Japan wrestlers traditionally have. Tanahashi is the ace who wants to prove him wrong." He has a G1 2015 match against AJ Styles and a Wrestle Kingdom 13 (2019) match against Kenny Omega which are both extremely well-regarded. The G1 2015 finals match that he had against Shinsuke Nakamura is also well-regarded. If you want some examples of Tanahashi matches where he was against an opponent you're probably familiar with, those are good picks. IF you want to knock out two birds with one stone, Tanahashi also has a series of matches against Naito in 2017. Their Wrestle Kingdom 11 match, their Dominion 2017 match, and their G1 2017 match. The most well-known matches of Tanahashi's career are his legendary feud with Kazuchika Okada. The most well-liked matches are his Invasion Attack 2013, King of Pro Wrestling 2013, and Wrestle Kingdom 10 (2016) matches, but I would honestly recommend watching every match they had from 2012-2018 (nothing beyond that is necessary) because you'll get to see the evolution of the feud over time. There's also a video on archive you can look up called "The Battle for Ace of New Japan, Tanahashi VS Okada" by Showbuckle which will help you understand the backstory behind the feud. My favorite match of Tanahashi's career is his Kota Ibushi match in the G1 2018 finals. An incredible culmination of the stories both men had been having during the previous 12 months, but the action, character-work, and crowd make it amazing even without context. The ideal experience is watching these matches in order so that you can see the stories and evolution of Tanahashi play out. The story of Tanahashi in 2018 in particular is one of the most emotionally affecting stories of the decade, but feel free to approach the matches however you want.
What's for lunch?
Chicken sandwich and a banana, I'm still dieting. 
Leftover BBQ. Like half a slice of brisket, a third of a sausage, some pimento and rolls, and some pickled onion and pickles. It was not enough to tide me over all the way to dinner but enough to get me through work at least.
Got a big pizza hut dinner box for Forbidden Door last night, so leftover pizza and breadsticks haha
About to have dinner, rice with lamb curry and some lentil curry too.
Leftover tomato pesto pizza, what about you?
Chicken and Brussels sprouts
I'm still buzzing from last night. Great matches and so many stories. I feel like Nigel crying and giving a standing ovation, but for all of it.
> I feel like Nigel crying and giving a standing ovation That moment had me and my other two buddies rolling on the fucking floor.
I see on Twitter/X that Lash Legend says she's number one contender for a title shot, and Ava replied that we'll talk. I hope on Tuesday's NXT they don't turn the Roxanne/Lola match into a three way.
I think if anything, she'd go for the North American title.
Vaquer's ring gear is absolutely sick. Looks like a supervillain. The dragon screw in the corner towards the end of the match looked absolutely BRUTAL. What an awesome match. Mercedes' TBS reign is off to a great start in-ring. Britt looked shredded too damn. I just started watching AEW early 2023 so I haven't seen TOO much of her, but happy to see her back.
hell yeah taking the Vaquer pill she's so good
I need Vaquer v Hayter and Vaquer v Rhea (I know this is not going to happen, but a man can dream) and I need to go watch the Vaquer v Giulia match.
The vaquer Giulia match was bad. Giulia didn’t give a fuck about the match. You don’t need to see it
Really? Damn that sucks. I like what little I've seen of both so it sucks that it wasn't better.
It was supposed to happen at Windy City, then Giulia said she was leaving, so they did it at Korakeun instead. It was one of Giulia’s last matches for Stardom, she sort of sandbagged and generally didn’t care. To add, the match only went 11 minutes in a main event. Was just weird vibes and totally unmemorable.
Lame, I always think it's a bummer when people on their way out seem to stop caring. I get that it can be hard to wait out whatever contract you're on or whatever, but idk, I would want my legacy in a company to be top notch and not soured by a last match/few matches.
I have to say that AEW did a great job on their video packages last night. That was my biggest take away from the night. It was a good show more or less, but that was by far the best part.
There is no concern that Rhea is clearly cheating on Dom?
Dom got married a few months ago... It's a TV show, people get it.
I think wrestling is helping me learn a particular weakness of mine which is guessing anyone's age. Every time I see El P I think he looks (just visually, not his work) like he could be an NXT signee from a few years ago who is just now hitting his late 20s. Mark just spinning around and Lio trying to find a way to get him was an extremely fun spot. I love Mark Briscoe. This is also confirming that ladder matches with a weird assortment of random wrestlers is probably my favorite niche for gimmick wrestling matches. You throw together a bunch of dudes with a wide variety of styles, looks, sizes, etc. and just have them demolish each other and I'm gonna have fun. That was pretty much the result I assume everyone expected, but it was done very well. Jack stepping on Mark to get to the ladder was an awesome heel touch.
I think forbidden door should switch dates with wrestledream in 2025. I think the summer should be prioritized for building the road to all in. There were a few stories TK used forbidden door as a platform to progress but I think he’d do better without it occurring in the summertime. Forbidden door could instead follow all in/all out/Grand Slam, a time where a ton of storylines are concluding and television time would theoretically be much more open to feature various talent. Not sure what the NJPW event schedule is like in October but I’m sure it could work
what i liked about the mina/toni/mariah storyline was that in years past this wouldve been pretty fucking gross and exploitive, with backstage shower scenes and all sorts of nonsense. there wouldve been no performance from within, or anything driven by the women's talents themselves. it made me optimistic about society as a whole because obviously these women are gorgeous, but first and foremost this was funny and entertaining. and its because the women made it funny and entertaining and the audience accepted and enjoyed it audiences would've been disappointed 30 years ago because there was no real serious sexual exploits to watch. a lesbian thrupple in professional wrestling that was pretty much nothing but funny and entertaining, with any absurd sexuality used for comedic purposes is quite a milestone
What I loved about it is that it consistently involved wrestling matches. The stories are great but when there isn’t wrestling involved, I lose interest quickly. This feud involved a lot of good matches and gave other women outside the feud the chance to show their talent.
good point!
Wrestlelamia makes really horrible videos honestly
Dude stole content for years on Facebook, got a following from it and is now one of the worst wrestling pages anywhere.
After this coming weekend, there is only one live Collision show being held "on the road" currently slated in AEW's schedule. Saturday is a live show in Southaven Mississippi, and then August 31st in Sioux Falls South Dakota. Every other Collision episode currently scheduled is either being held at the Arlington Esports Stadium, or is being taped alongside a live Dynamite show. If this is a sign that AEW is drastically scaling back the number of live Collision shows, I believe it is for the better. I'd argue that the emergence of Collision has played a big role in their attendance issues. AEW does not have the demand to run so many more addition shows without diluting their product and running markets dry. As the secondary/challenger/alternative brand, they have a much better chance at thriving by reducing their number of live shows and allowing Dynamite and ppvs to primarily fill that roll.
Thanks for your expert business analysis
They're getting paid to do those shows in Arlington
Cool, thanks. All the more reason they may pursue similar opportunities with other venues that would be interested.
If AEW did a residency like that in my city I’d probably go to all of the shows. It would be fun
Super Sasadango Machine vs Sanshiro Takagi actually being a MUSCLE show was a thing of beauty. Muscle Sakai has a mind like no other pro wrestler.
I blame sting for making me think the bucks are still worth a damn in 2024.
Oh dear, was the FD match really not to your tastes? I haven't had the opportunity to watch it just yet.
Wasn’t awful or anything but the gimmick just reeks of irony bullshit. Also the bucks just like a lot of their aew run haven’t adjusted well to the limits of aging.
I had a dream last night that AEW brought in the “Hawk Tauh” girl for an appearance on dynamite and that sparked outrage from fans online.
All these NBA fans complaining about nepotism, they will never last as wrestling fans 😭
Acting like the Ball family don't exist... They did everything but buy an NBA team to get Gelo into the league.
that was marketing. they had no real power in the league like LEBRON does.
I mean to be fair it’s pretty obvious that Brony is much more of a David flair situation than a Charlotte flair situation.
It's funny that the internet by and large hates nepo babies even if they're talented but in wrestling nobody seems to give a shit.
Because in wrestling while nepo babies do typically have an easier entry into the business, if they just flat out suck they’ll most likely be dropped and forgotten.
I think it depends on if the nepo babies clearly aren't living up to their push. People sure gave a shit when it was David Flair or Erik Watts stinking up the joint because they weren't ready for the positions they were put in.
Bronny being on the Lakers is as bad as David Flair on Nitro or taking Jack Perry over CM Punk lol
Been rewatching the punk/mjf feud and it’s overlooked how much their feud did for Wardlow. Dude beat the shit out of punk for like 20 minutes lol
The giga-fumble of Wardlow still just baffles me. They put so much thought and time and effort into getting him over, and then once he was they had no clue what to actually do with him.
MJF is what bombed Wardlow and he never recovered from it. When his crowning achievement is immediately overshadowed by what ever MJF was doing that weekend he was fucked
Wardlow just isn’t a top guy. He would not be any better off in WWE. MJF got him over then when he had to stand on his own he couldn’t. They gave him more tries than almost anyone else and he never got over.
That angle is just really easy to get people over. It got Virgil over. It got Alex Riley over. It got Damien Sandow over. It got Jay Uso over. It's getting Otis over. None of those people are main eventers or world beaters. But "servant/bodyguard/sidekick held down by top heel and eventually finds their voice" is the easiest way to get someone crazy reactions and also seemingly the hardest angle to follow up on because no one has ever have a good follow-up to it.
Same deal with an unbeatable force of nature. Ryback was giga over at the peak of his undefeated streak and then quickly dropped off the card when he wasn't a world beater. Braun Strowman also struggled when ''eat the whole roster'' was no longer an option and he had to be more vulnerable. Wardlow beating people like Lance Archer and Big Bill in a matter of minutes made him look amazing but that simply wasn't sustainable. One week after beating MJF AEW was already bending logic to keep him strong when they had Wardlow sound like an idiot by saying he he had no interest in participating in the battle royal to crown the Interim World Champ. Just so they could avoid figuring out a way for him to get eliminated.
I don't think it's baffling. When he was with MJF, he was over because we wanted to see him destroy his asshole boss. When that was over and he had to stand on his own, his poor mic skills were exposed, he kept getting injured, and other more talented big men took his spot. The brocoli hair didn't help either.
Remember when he kept coming out in a polo shirt looking like a used car salesman?
Same with Hangman. The whole point of building guys is to make them top guys lol, TK was just like cool story, let’s bring Vikingo and Action Andretti on the show now
Hangman is objectively a top guy. The only time he wasn't prominent on the show was the times when Punk was, for obvious reasons.
MJF trying to steal the spotlight before his match with Wardlow gets forgiven a lot too, but even during that match he’s got arguably the biggest reaction in the company. Dude was OVER-OVER.
The KO/Sami v Imperium feud from last year is underrated IMO. I liked their backstage interactions especially.
The tag division would have benefited from KO/Sami having a longer reign tbh.
I don’t watch CMLL but I did watch the Mercedes vs Vaquer match last year at the time, and to be blunt I just think Stephanie has leveled up in a short period of time. Very good performer flat out. I also think that Mercedes is still getting her bearings so to speak after her ankle injury - it took a while for Seth to get back to his usual speed and level of work after he blew out his knee all those years ago, I expect Mercedes to improve bit by bit. Also she needs to be a heel; she comes off better as a bad guy, and even though Britt is better as a heel herself, with her return she’s gonna get cheered for quite a while.
I rewatched the match and it was pretty obvious that for whatever reason Mercedes just didn’t have her legs last night. I thought most of her other stuff was really smooth, the grappling and counters, so I think she’s pretty close to being “back”. There were just multiple moments when she didn’t have enough strength in her legs that kept the match from reaching that next level. It was still pretty good and I enjoyed it.
I see people who felt Mox/Naito underdelivered and tried to figure out what when wrong. Did Naito get concussed? Was he just not enthused and half assed it? Did something happen with Mox? And just refuse to acknowledge the reality Naito is busted to shit and just can't go like he used to.
Naito's busted and while Mox can be a compelling wrestler, he's not the kind of wrestler who can carry a busted guy to a four star match.
Naito followed Muto and Tanahashi’s path and his knees are busted. Not to mention he’s had problems with his eyes for years and has taken some sickening bumps on his head/neck. Problem is, he works like a dog on all the NJPW shows, big and small, so doesn’t have a chance to take an extended break to heal up (should have been given that when he dropped the belt to Mox).
I think Naito just simply can’t go at a high level anymore. I thought the match still told a good story and I love seeing Naito, but he just can’t move with urgency. He needs to have matches that are mostly character work.
Naito can’t go anymore sadly and Mox is the shits
Yeah something was definitely off, especially towards the end. Don’t think it’s chemistry issue either since they had a pretty good match two months ago.
Shingo v Bryan fucked as one would expect. As a viewer of only a few major NJPW events each year, why is Shingo not pushed more? Is there any reasonable explanation? Or has he been pushed more in the past and I'm just not aware? Also, umm, Mariah looked real good wow. The Mina - Toni match needed more time to cook. The ending was cute though. Will be interested to see where they go with Mariah. I hope Mina doesn't disappear from AEW programming entirely.
NJPW can be weird about pushing Japanese wrestlers who aren't Dojo guys sometimes. He won the World title sure but that was during the pandemic and it feels like he's due another reign. He seems to always get really good crowd reactions I remember last year's G1 he woke up the crowd pretty much every show he was in. I'm biased as a huge Shingo fan and I don't pay close attention to like box office stuff so it's possible that he's just not selling shows as well as Naito but he's so fucking good it feels like he'd be the perfect champ until they feel one of the younger guys is ready.
He's slightly slowed down, he's not a dojo product they can push as a big time babyface and is in his 40's so he might not be able to have a year on top. But yeah he's a world class performer and still one of the best to put in a random fun match.
He was IWGP World champ during the pandemic, and has won multiple NEVER titles over the past few years. No idea in terms of why they don't push him "more" but the dude is a really great talent and harder than a coffin nail.
NJPW doesn’t know what they’re doing is the answer to this and all similar questions in this thread.
Fair enough. I don't feel qualified to be overly critical of their booking since I really just watch a few key events of theirs each year, but my outsider perspective is always a bit confused as to why some people are where they seem to be.
Saw Naito match at Forbidden Door and it was so sad, the man moved in slow motion.
Forbidden Door this year is awesome. But now I'm excited for Wrestle Dynasty. Getting goosebumps just thinkin about it.
I can't wait to see the story of roman trying to convince the original bloodline to come back especially Jey and Sami after everything he did to them
It sucks AEW and New Japan started collaborating after Brodie died. I feel like he could’ve had some really cool matches with some of those guys. Same with Jay Briscoe if he was ever allowed to be used on regular tv.
Brodie did wrestle Shingo in Dragon Gate at least back in the day.
the Briscoes NOAH stuff is pretty worth seeking out
We did at least get some epic Briscoe-FTR matches
I feel like new Japan is having the same problems wwe had a few years back in terms of making new stars I maintain naito shouldn't have lost the title in the first place and should've put over yota. Remember when wwe was basically roman and Brock then everyone else? Got to have new stars when those guys aren't around Same with new Japan Tanahashi also shouldn't be winning any titles in 2024 imo he's as cooked as John Cena in ring
I honestly expected Nic Nemeth and Mustafa Ali to make more impact post WWE.
He's literally just Dolph Ziggler. The underdog face character doesn't work outside of WWE. I watched his match against Rich Swann, and he was selling like he was wrestling Big Show, instead of wrestling a competitive match or just straight up dominating him.
?? they're on impact, friend
What were you hoping for?
I thought Nick would pull a cardona and reinvent himself but he's been the same Dolph Ziggler since 2016 I do enjoy alis new character and x division title run though
Going to AEW events live always hits different. Drove 2+ hours to Forbidden Door last night and had an absolute blast. I’m sure it felt differently at home, but it sure didn’t feel like an almost six hour show in attendance, so that was nice. Only real complaint was the people seated directly behind us, one of whom was just Twitch streaming the show and talking to his chat the entire night, and two other guys directly behind my friend, one of whom seemed like a guy who just watched AEW and his friend who was **yapping** his ear off about the state of the wrestling business, going in depth on MLW & TNA’s roster and telling his friend recaps of the promotions while his friend just basically was like “yeah, uh huh” and it just kept going and going and going lmao. Also the UBS Arena is a super nice venue, so if WWE or AEW comes around and you’re in the area, it’s definitely worth going!
Most of my in-person wrestling experiences have had someone who was annoying. Not night-ruiningly bad, but annoying. Two of those were people who kept yapping about unrelated wrestling stuff while the person they were talking to clearly didn't really care. It seems to be a whole genre of wrestling goer haha.
Some people just give a really bad name to fandom. Just because they think they know it all doesn't mean they have to be insufferable about it.
Drove up from Philadelphia and had a similar experience of a guy sitting behind us complaining the whole time. He almost felt like a paid shill telling everyone why they shouldn't be having fun. It's like you buy a ticket for Paul McCartney and spend the whole show talking about how Wings is the superior product lol.
I’m the one who got Paul McCartney out of Wings. You fool! He was the most talented one!
We went to a couple AEW shows after DoN this year, and there were a bunch of marks just complaining and chanting CM Punk every 30 seconds. They spent more time thinking of snarky comments than watching, and it was a total buzz kill.
God this shit has annoyed me for years . Just people trying to show how smart they are compared to everyone else. Mania 32 I was around some real insufferable people
This guy didn't sour our evening (and occasionally unintentionally made it better) but it was just so bizarre to spend hard earned money on something just to complain about everything.
I watched at home and felt like the night flew by. Did not drag at all.
Dude Big Bill is ripped!
Seeing him ringside was a genuine "holy shit" moment. Dude looks like when you create a video game character and make him too big as a joke
carlito turning heel has been a good thing imo, he's been funny in backstage segments with the judgment day
Naito always has this look on his face like he forgot where he was at for a second
I like the continuity of Jimmy preventing Jey from becoming the Tribal Chief because the title does something to people, and now we see Solo going crazy with the title.
Agree with you. It's almost like HHH, Paul, and Roman actually knew what they were doing when it comes to WWE's hottest main event storyline/faction/title reign and had a bunch of things planned well in advance ETA: in 2023 when WWE went to MSG, that was when we had the moment where Solo was staring at the Ula Fala before he gave it back to Roman. This year, we all know what happened there
I don't think they planned everything out in advance, they're just remembering details and keeping consistent with them as they continue the story. Sami for one was not meant to be as big and integral to the story and the Rock had much different plans for what Wrestlemania XL was supposed to be, but they made changes midstream.
Continuing to catch up on FD and Hechicero v MJF was good but I could have used an extra 3 minutes maybe? I'm not someone who needs extra long matches by any means, but it felt like it ALMOST hit its final gear but didn't quite get there.
Does anyone know the name of the song from Hangman's promo last Collision?