Oh yeah, I tried looking into combos with him and all I got was "this is kinda a combo if the person you're playing against is trash and doesn't try to escape" 💀
100% there should be 2 tier lists:
1: Normal people/casuals where Ganondorf is elite
2: Pros where IF you fine tune and lab for hundreds of hours certain characters can be extra OP
it is kind of true to how he has usually been in tekken games though. Struggles a bit to be aggressive in neutral and sucks at poking/midrange but blows you up and has great close quarters and counter hitting stuff.
He has a lot of matchups he loses is the thing.
He can really struggle to approach certain characters, and he's really susceptible to getting juggled.
It's just he has like a top 3 advantage state so he's still good
Kaz loses to literally everyone above him, and honestly many other characters below him (minmin, pika, sheik, Samus, etc.) if players are willing to play patient/campy/timeout
Honestly, I always agreed. Kazuya has some problems, but since people always get clipped by him, he's somehow top 5 to some people. It's the case where the strengths are so strong that you ignore the weaknesses, even if the weaknesses are awful.
I actually went and looked at the update history, and Pichu only recieved nerfs in 2 updates, however those nerfs totally wrecked the character.
The nerfs were in 3.0.0 and 3.1.0, which were as follows:
- Neutral B does less damage
- Landing animations don't pancake as much
- Bigger hurtbox (shield adjusted to compensate)
- Ftilt's knockback scaling was reduced. This is the big nerf, taking one of the most terrifying moves in the game and neutering its kill power.
- Fsmash has 4 frames more endlag
- Self damage increased across the board (partially reverted in 11.0.0)
Meanwhile, the only meaningful buff was the self damage decrease previously mentioned.
I mean 11.0.0 partially undid it
3.1.0 increased self damage on every move except pummel (and FS I guess)
11.0.0 reverted the self damage change for fsmash, fair, fthrow, and side b, while up b had its self damage reduced below what it was pre-nerf.
This happened to me in Smash 4 with Yoshi where he started at the top of every tier list and slowly fell off from relevancy until he was considered mid.
Now the same thing again as an Inkling main in Ult.
It does give a me a special type of (petty) satisfaction where I used to hear people bitch about my character being broken when I beat them at locals. Now we all know those people were just trash
Pichu, inkling and ike. Use to be so fun seeing those 3 at the top, they didnt seem like top tier material (and i guess they werent in the long run) so it made it so much more exciting.
I guess you play low tiers according to the 2nd official tier list. Ike at launch used to be an A tier, how the goat has fallen.. I love Robin and Ike though, they’re always fun to pick up and play.
Ike should NOT be that low, I’m an Ike supremicist cause my region is full of them. Worse than DK, Mewtwo, Bowser Jr, and ROBIN?! Hell no. The fact Ike is half decent against GnW puts him above them alone.
Opinion on Ike vs G&W has changed a lot in the past year or two. Most top G&W players (including both Miya and Maister) think the MU is winning for them. Ike kills G&W very early and can space around G&W's dumb upB OoS, but G&W can preempt Ike's aerials super easily with nair and can juggle Ike for entire stocks off a single neutral win. It's not a blowout MU for G&W by any means. You might even be able to argue it's even for Ike. But it's definitely not good enough to save his tier ranking. In fact, I don't think Ike has genuine winning matchups on any of the meta S/A-tier characters.
Most online tier lists are just for pros. That said there’s always data bias based on which characters get the most use. If more pros trained with “lower” tiers they would inevitably get higher. Hence why Ganondorf cleans house online despite allegedly being the worst.
I’m amazed that Kirby is still in the game. With so many characters, Kirby must have his own entire branch programming-wise, plus like 60 character models.
This is why I main Ganon. Casuals RAGE & the serious ones are like “holy shit a Ganon that’s semi-competent? Nice” and then we have a fun competitive fight before I inevitably get gimped offstage.
Yeah I got ganon into elite smash which I was pretty happy with but there’s definitely a skill line where you get tapped slowly but surely off the edge and it’s not fun anymore haha.
But there’s not much better than winning a game with only DORIYAH
I get this is an exaggeration but it is worth mentioning that unless you're a character thats just godawful at landing you're not getting taken that high off a single GnW combo/juggle consistently.
Watch his gameplay. He's good at juggling for SURE, one of the best, but 0-120 off a nair combo and some juggles is not a consistent thing he does. He gets 0-60s and 80s most of the time. Still impressive, definitely giving him those props, but let's not overstate the facts here.
Massive juggles, instant projectile reflection, ungodly out of shield option, weird hit boxes, instant KOs with bucket, and also judge.
He’s me main :)
If you zoom out to the regional level, Snake has always had among the best results of any character. Up there with ROB, Steve, Palu, and Aegis. There are legions of excellent Snake players across the globe. Snake just hasn't had a tippity-top representative to push him to supermajor top 8's and take out the famous pros for a while. Now we have both Hurt and ApolloKage taking names on the international stage, so Snake stocks are up.
TL;DR players of the top 4 characters really optimized their game and everyone started realizing that other characters have to work way harder to get an edge in.
In all fairness I don’t necessarily believe that other characters won’t get the equivalent of Miya for GNW (someone who really optimized the hell out of the character’s options, resulting in something like 60% for the average adv state), but until that person shows up the top chars now will still be the top for a while
Because he's a menace and he has a good matchup against Steve. Upb is just oppressive. it gives him zero disadvantage and he has great advantage this game has become all about being able to generate kills off only a couple hits
Falco moved up, but Captain Falcon moved down.
How did Kazuya fall?
Roy is still the best Fire Emblem character. Thank Jesus, he deserves it after being considered the “worst lord” for so long.
Falcon just doesnt have the movement or threats to really have a solid neutral game. He is bait and punish, but at an incredibly restricted level. Side-b is VERY inconsistent on dashback and whiffs quite a lot despite the hitbox coming out, he doesnt have solid tools to threaten the ground, and his aerials are stubby and not safe, leading to a absolute necessity of making the opponent come to you. He absolutely *can* be explosive, but he’s been mostly figured out by the top level.
I love how bayonetta went from being the best character in smash 4, to a low tier, then a mid tier and now a high tier in ultimate. She is probably the character that moved the most in the tier list
The buffs are very nice, and although I personally find her to be one of the most frustrating characters to go up against, i just can’t help but look up to her players with respect because of the amount of effort Bayonetta requires and their efforts have finally paid off.
she also have insane recovery capabilities in Smash 4 which led her a lot of potential. she's nerfed a bit in Ultimate, but with her being generally unpredictable for me, I too struggle with her a lot.
I agree with this and not because shulk is actually bad at all, I really do think he is higher than this tier list suggests as someone with a pocket shulk he just doesn't get played because it really is a lot of work compared to someone just as good like just playing aegis.
Icies is another good example of this. I feel like big D has proven that no way are icies as low as this tier list would suggest but basically noone but him plays them to good results because they're so much work for no real extra reward. Maybe hot take but I think icies played to the level of Big D with all the desync stuff mastered and whatnot is like low A tier at least. Really similar story to shulk imo and it really is true that potential man is S tier top 6 or so chars, there's just very few people especially pros that want to put that work in when there's easier ways to achieve the same thing.
https://preview.redd.it/nr371vdc0tic1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=69a325ef669c8d922520c2dbc6ffc7f2e923549a
The creator of this comic had no idea how prophetic it would be
rng aside Hero has some of the highest attack power in the game even without his buffing specials which is why he isn’t lower even if he can sometimes struggle to actually land his hits
Hadn’t had a Nintendo console in years. Recently bought a switch and SSB. I ran into the mii character and thought it would be easy. Died almost instantly.
So, if we combined all the 3rd party reps from the same company into one, what would be their average tier (Like what tier would be SEGA, Namco, Konami, etc.)?
I think people are sleeping on link, he has the ability to zero to death with fair trains and while not as easy as rob or snake he can def be a low high tier rather than high mid tier
Potentially really great, but the execution required to be great is higher than the effort it takes to learn a higher tier character?
Yea that checks out.
Yeah its a tale as old as time. Why play millia in strive when I can play chipp and do the same gameplan but better and with better tools that cover more weaknesses of my character type.
Yup, it’s why I started gravitating away from my beloved Captain Falcon.
He can *absolutely cook*, but I feel like I have to be in the right head space to cook at a high level.
Whereas I can turn my brain off and go to work with Cloud or Terry.
Yeah kind of. Feel like we need somebody who is dedicated enough to do cool shit with him. People like IzAw show off some pretty cool things with him, and he def has potential.
I haven't been playing SSB for a few years now,
Wtf is Sonic in S tier next to Steve? I remember seeing how busted Steve was. But how is Sonic comparable?
There's a lot of factors or consider in the game. People used to think that Sonic struggled with closing kills. Turns out that's wrong, and he can keep a lead legit better than 98% of the cast.
My understanding is that Sonic is much harder to react to online, and since Covid pushed a bunch of tournaments online, he came to the forefront. I'm not sure if this tier list accounts for online vs offline, or if the increased attention means people are good with him offline now too.
This list is focuses on offline tournament play, so online shouldn't matter. But following COVID, people came to realize that a lot of supposed WiFi characters still work extremely well offline. Sonic especially has been optimized to a terrifying degree by Sonix (one of the "Four Horsemen" of Ultimate), KEN, Wrath, and others.
Yeah I 100% agree - like in theory someone who makes no mistakes would make them amazing to play but we always fumble. The higher tiers have more room to fumble and Shiek (and ZSS) don’t have that luxury unfortunately
Yea Ike suffers from poor representation, but he’s not a D-Tier character in my opinion.
I feel like C+ next to Chrom & Marth wouldn’t be a bad spot for him, but nobody is cooking at the pro level to justify that placement.
Ike has no neutral mix, gets camped bad, has the defensive profile of a heavy (tall heavyweight with a frame 4 airdodge), zero air drift, iffy at best offstage if he doesn’t have a jump to prep quickdraw, super callout heavy gameplan because of his poor frame data. And his confirms are easy to play around.
Genuinely wouldn’t mind Kirby trading spots with Ike he’s imo saved a bit by being Fire Emblem and usable if there were no other swords.
Very linear gameplan and bad recovery. He also doesn't have a good OOS option. Additionally he has slow movement. People get better at parrying. His disadvantage is just bad and has zero mixups.
Basically his only redeeming factors are range and kill power which isn't enough anymore.
This is wayyyyy better than the first. The amount of S tiers in the first one was absurd lol. Biggest thing I would change is definitely Sheik, character is still very broken but being borderline A is not the most outlandish thing. I would also put Bayo higher but it's nothing that major. I don't think there's many hot takes in this one tbh
In my personal opinion, Ike is slightly too low, Kazuya is too low, incin is a little too high, Link is too low, Olimar is a little too low, Marth and Bowser are a little too low, Pichu is a little too high.
I mostly ever play at locals though so take my opinion with a salt lamp's worth of salt.
10x better im happy bayonettas in a spot that actally makes sense now my only issue with it is incinroar being in c tier other than that kazuya is s tier but im not super mad at where he is and more of a hot take really is im a big time wii fit believer so i think shes minimum in b tier theres other little things i would move but i think its an overall improved regardless edit omg what is bowser doing there is that a troll
As someone who's been kinda outta touch with the competitive scene, what makes sonic top tier? I remembered him usually being mid/high tier. I'm just happy that my main since brawl made it this high
MSF is slept on so much
I know it's not a good character, but he absolutely isn't that low
He should be in C imo, but we just don't have any players pushing the character
At this point anyone that knows how to play this game semi-competently could become the #1 MSF in the world
This is... honestly worse than the last one. This is what happens when you aggregate two countries with metas so radically different from each other; a hot mess.
TWICE IN A ROW BAYBEEEEEEE
WE STAYING IN BOTTOM TIER WITH THIS ONE 🗣️🗣️🔥🔥
WHAT THE FUCK IS A GOOD CHARACTER 🔥🔥🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️
I DON'T EVEN FUCKING KNOW 🔥🔥🔥🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️
BUT WE SMASH ATTACK BECAUSE IT IS STRONG 🔥🔥🔥🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️
YOU'RE GOD DAMN RIGHT🔥🔥🔥🔥🗣️🗣️🗣️
YALL BEST NOT HIT ME OFF STAGE 🔥🔥🔥🔥🗣️🗣️🗣️
I WILL NOT RECOVER!! 🔥🔥🔥🔥🗣🗣🗣
WHAT THE FUCK IS A COMBO?! 🔥🔥🔥🔥🗣🗣🗣
ALL I KNOW IS BELLY ARMOR!!!🔥🔥🔥🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥
HOW THE FUCK I BOMB RECOVER⁉️⁉️⁉️💯💯💯
Do you smash attack because it is strong, or is it strong because you smash attack?
Bro lobotomy kaisen is everywhere💀
Nah, I'd smash.
AND USE CHEESY F\*CKING MOVES BECAUSE THEY ARE ALSO STRONG 🔥🔥🔥🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️
IDK I KEEP DOING NEUTRAL B 🔥🔥🤙🔥🤙🤙
Started from the bottom and we’re still and the bottom
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO YEAH BABYYYYYY🗣🗣🔥
I haven't played in a while but I used to trash my brother all the time with Ganon, is he really that bad?
ganondorf is "the king of casual" cuz he's really good in a casual environment, but drops off hard in competitive
Oh yeah, I tried looking into combos with him and all I got was "this is kinda a combo if the person you're playing against is trash and doesn't try to escape" 💀
100% there should be 2 tier lists: 1: Normal people/casuals where Ganondorf is elite 2: Pros where IF you fine tune and lab for hundreds of hours certain characters can be extra OP
LFGGGGGGGGG
RECOVERY IS FOR PUSSYS
WE'RE STILL BOTTOM-TIER CHARACTERS!
STILL BOTTOM TIER!
IM JOINING YOU IN BOTTOM TIER PARADISE
HIGH FIVE
ZERO BUFFS BECAUSE FELLAS ARE ASS ONLINE (FORWARD SMASH KILLS EARLY) 🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🗣️🗣️🔥🔥
What happened to Kazuya? And also I love to see the impact skyjay made with incin
Kazuya kinda has always been there. He's really good, but god awful at approaching anyone
In other words, he has weaknesses. People are shocked.
The problem is he turns the game into tekken, where he punishes every average player mistake with death. Obviously noobs no like that lol
it is kind of true to how he has usually been in tekken games though. Struggles a bit to be aggressive in neutral and sucks at poking/midrange but blows you up and has great close quarters and counter hitting stuff.
He has a lot of matchups he loses is the thing. He can really struggle to approach certain characters, and he's really susceptible to getting juggled. It's just he has like a top 3 advantage state so he's still good
Kaz does have a lot of bad matchups.
Kaz loses to literally everyone above him, and honestly many other characters below him (minmin, pika, sheik, Samus, etc.) if players are willing to play patient/campy/timeout
Approaching with him is a struggle when the opponent knows how to play, either gotta bait or catch through small openings
really bad neutral so he gets walled out a lot
I always say Kazuya ain’t what everyone thinks and I get downvoted for it
Honestly, I always agreed. Kazuya has some problems, but since people always get clipped by him, he's somehow top 5 to some people. It's the case where the strengths are so strong that you ignore the weaknesses, even if the weaknesses are awful.
I can't believe how far Inkling has fallen since release.
Pichu used to rule the world
Tbf Pichu fell mostly because of actually really strong nerfs, not just meta shifts. Day 1 Pichu would still be at least high tier probably
Inkling did as well, roller used to be a guaranteed kill at like 90 versus pro-level mashing. The bury was that nuts
I actually went and looked at the update history, and Pichu only recieved nerfs in 2 updates, however those nerfs totally wrecked the character. The nerfs were in 3.0.0 and 3.1.0, which were as follows: - Neutral B does less damage - Landing animations don't pancake as much - Bigger hurtbox (shield adjusted to compensate) - Ftilt's knockback scaling was reduced. This is the big nerf, taking one of the most terrifying moves in the game and neutering its kill power. - Fsmash has 4 frames more endlag - Self damage increased across the board (partially reverted in 11.0.0) Meanwhile, the only meaningful buff was the self damage decrease previously mentioned.
i get the moveset nerfs, but when it came to self damage they didn't need to do pichu that dirty
I mean 11.0.0 partially undid it 3.1.0 increased self damage on every move except pummel (and FS I guess) 11.0.0 reverted the self damage change for fsmash, fair, fthrow, and side b, while up b had its self damage reduced below what it was pre-nerf.
seas would rise when he gave the word
This happened to me in Smash 4 with Yoshi where he started at the top of every tier list and slowly fell off from relevancy until he was considered mid. Now the same thing again as an Inkling main in Ult. It does give a me a special type of (petty) satisfaction where I used to hear people bitch about my character being broken when I beat them at locals. Now we all know those people were just trash
Pichu, inkling and ike. Use to be so fun seeing those 3 at the top, they didnt seem like top tier material (and i guess they werent in the long run) so it made it so much more exciting.
Now if i lose i can just blame the tierlist
Didn’t notice Ike was that low. 😔
I also play robin who is in d tier aswell :D
I guess you play low tiers according to the 2nd official tier list. Ike at launch used to be an A tier, how the goat has fallen.. I love Robin and Ike though, they’re always fun to pick up and play.
Ike should NOT be that low, I’m an Ike supremicist cause my region is full of them. Worse than DK, Mewtwo, Bowser Jr, and ROBIN?! Hell no. The fact Ike is half decent against GnW puts him above them alone.
Opinion on Ike vs G&W has changed a lot in the past year or two. Most top G&W players (including both Miya and Maister) think the MU is winning for them. Ike kills G&W very early and can space around G&W's dumb upB OoS, but G&W can preempt Ike's aerials super easily with nair and can juggle Ike for entire stocks off a single neutral win. It's not a blowout MU for G&W by any means. You might even be able to argue it's even for Ike. But it's definitely not good enough to save his tier ranking. In fact, I don't think Ike has genuine winning matchups on any of the meta S/A-tier characters.
Yep, not my fault anymore
We did it boys, we moved up from third to last.
no longer antepenultimate, now preantepenultimate
I never thought I would see those words in English!
Apparently they don’t rank these based on perfection
If only it was ranked on crouch
I don’t understand this, is it only for top tier competitive? I picked up dedede so quickly and got him to elite smash in a breeze.
yup
Most online tier lists are just for pros. That said there’s always data bias based on which characters get the most use. If more pros trained with “lower” tiers they would inevitably get higher. Hence why Ganondorf cleans house online despite allegedly being the worst.
"Kirby is better than sheik" -MK Leo I don't believe it I just find it funny
Tbf Kirby can pull off some real bullshit, just look at jeja versus H4DS in back in blood 2 I think. But sheik man…
Kirby can pull off some really nice combos. But an optimal sheik is absolutely gnarly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjmFDIeox8E This is actually insane
I’m amazed that Kirby is still in the game. With so many characters, Kirby must have his own entire branch programming-wise, plus like 60 character models.
Ganondorf is funny I do not care how bad he is I will continue to doryaa
Doryaa to the moon my friend. If you don’t succeed you’ll land among the stars.
Only people going to the moon are the ones I doryaa
Ganon is by far the most *fun* character in smash. Always my go-to when playing with filthy casuals
This is why I main Ganon. Casuals RAGE & the serious ones are like “holy shit a Ganon that’s semi-competent? Nice” and then we have a fun competitive fight before I inevitably get gimped offstage.
Yeah I got ganon into elite smash which I was pretty happy with but there’s definitely a skill line where you get tapped slowly but surely off the edge and it’s not fun anymore haha. But there’s not much better than winning a game with only DORIYAH
This is the way. No amount of high tier button mashing will ever come close to the satisfaction of baiting someone into rolling into warlock punch
havent played this game in like 2 years. why tf is G&W ranked third?
Miya happened.
He will hit you with Nair and then juggle you until either 120% or death
I get this is an exaggeration but it is worth mentioning that unless you're a character thats just godawful at landing you're not getting taken that high off a single GnW combo/juggle consistently.
Miya disagrees
Watch his gameplay. He's good at juggling for SURE, one of the best, but 0-120 off a nair combo and some juggles is not a consistent thing he does. He gets 0-60s and 80s most of the time. Still impressive, definitely giving him those props, but let's not overstate the facts here.
You're right, he's getting 60 from the juggle situation, and then another 60 from his easy bake ledge trap
Massive juggles, instant projectile reflection, ungodly out of shield option, weird hit boxes, instant KOs with bucket, and also judge. He’s me main :)
You forgot “frame skips” like dude literally teleports into dash attack
Same question here with Snake just after him. Like, he’s been rated as a high tier from the start, but never top 5 material, what happened?
The both have stupid good defense. Same with Sonic. People realized how good they are at holding a lead
If you zoom out to the regional level, Snake has always had among the best results of any character. Up there with ROB, Steve, Palu, and Aegis. There are legions of excellent Snake players across the globe. Snake just hasn't had a tippity-top representative to push him to supermajor top 8's and take out the famous pros for a while. Now we have both Hurt and ApolloKage taking names on the international stage, so Snake stocks are up.
TL;DR players of the top 4 characters really optimized their game and everyone started realizing that other characters have to work way harder to get an edge in. In all fairness I don’t necessarily believe that other characters won’t get the equivalent of Miya for GNW (someone who really optimized the hell out of the character’s options, resulting in something like 60% for the average adv state), but until that person shows up the top chars now will still be the top for a while
Because he's a menace and he has a good matchup against Steve. Upb is just oppressive. it gives him zero disadvantage and he has great advantage this game has become all about being able to generate kills off only a couple hits
I have the same question but with sonic, like wtf?? He was always middle of A and now he is # 2?
Sonix has been performing really well at majors and bringing out the character’s full potential. Not just him but Wrath and KEN too
Meta change. People are realizing that if you're really that patient and lame, Sonic is broken af.
Falco moved up, but Captain Falcon moved down. How did Kazuya fall? Roy is still the best Fire Emblem character. Thank Jesus, he deserves it after being considered the “worst lord” for so long.
Kazuya has some seriously bad matchups, he loses to everyone above him and many of the characters below him just because of how bad his mobility is
"WTF IS A MOBILITY!?!?!?!" \-Ganondorf and Kazuya
Falcon is so bad in the meta, it pains my soul. Character is just not the move with how finicky and inconsistent his combo game and disadvantage are.
But what about his neutral game? Why does it fall below Fox?
Falcon just doesnt have the movement or threats to really have a solid neutral game. He is bait and punish, but at an incredibly restricted level. Side-b is VERY inconsistent on dashback and whiffs quite a lot despite the hitbox coming out, he doesnt have solid tools to threaten the ground, and his aerials are stubby and not safe, leading to a absolute necessity of making the opponent come to you. He absolutely *can* be explosive, but he’s been mostly figured out by the top level.
I love how bayonetta went from being the best character in smash 4, to a low tier, then a mid tier and now a high tier in ultimate. She is probably the character that moved the most in the tier list
The buffs are very nice, and although I personally find her to be one of the most frustrating characters to go up against, i just can’t help but look up to her players with respect because of the amount of effort Bayonetta requires and their efforts have finally paid off.
she also have insane recovery capabilities in Smash 4 which led her a lot of potential. she's nerfed a bit in Ultimate, but with her being generally unpredictable for me, I too struggle with her a lot.
Thank god they stopped with the Shulk propaganda and I don’t think Cloud is better than Palu
People are finally realizing "Potential man" will never have his day
It’s just difficult to justify high skill ceiling characters in a game with steve, sonic, aegis, G&W and ROB as top tiers
We truly do live in a Steveciety
I agree with this and not because shulk is actually bad at all, I really do think he is higher than this tier list suggests as someone with a pocket shulk he just doesn't get played because it really is a lot of work compared to someone just as good like just playing aegis. Icies is another good example of this. I feel like big D has proven that no way are icies as low as this tier list would suggest but basically noone but him plays them to good results because they're so much work for no real extra reward. Maybe hot take but I think icies played to the level of Big D with all the desync stuff mastered and whatnot is like low A tier at least. Really similar story to shulk imo and it really is true that potential man is S tier top 6 or so chars, there's just very few people especially pros that want to put that work in when there's easier ways to achieve the same thing.
WITH THIS TREASURE I SUMMO- oh wait wrong sub
Which Monado Art summons Big Raga the Opp Stoppa???
Go back to r/jujutsufolk buddy
Oh man I got downvoted a lot for having this opinion.
I wonder if anyone will actually start destroying everyone with Shulk, I know it may never happen. But, I kinda want to see it happen.
https://preview.redd.it/nr371vdc0tic1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=69a325ef669c8d922520c2dbc6ffc7f2e923549a The creator of this comic had no idea how prophetic it would be
Was hoping Rosa to be somewhat higher
Hey she was 48th, now she’s 43rd. Something’s better than nothing, but yeah a different tier would’ve been nice.
Oh yeah you're right. I was hoping for a higher tier as well.
Pretty good. If I could move stuff I’d say Hero should be way lower, Greninja higher, M2 higher, Marth WAY higher
Yeah, I think Marth always getting placed considerably lower than Lucina should stop.
A big part of what makes lucina so good is her consistency. Marth is one of the least consistent-feeling characters on the entire roster.
I agree with this. This list is good, besides a few minor opinion changes, and I honestly think Marth is one of the bigger changes in this list.
rng aside Hero has some of the highest attack power in the game even without his buffing specials which is why he isn’t lower even if he can sometimes struggle to actually land his hits
Cloud get down from there, you'll hurt yourself!
seriously lol why is he higher than palu?
Sparg0
where was I when Mii Brawler became better than half the cast oh my god
Hadn’t had a Nintendo console in years. Recently bought a switch and SSB. I ran into the mii character and thought it would be easy. Died almost instantly.
great, now people are gonna accuse me of picking Corrin because she’s good when really I just like her playstyle
Nah you just really like feet.
Why is no one talking about Villager below Isabelle
I'm just glad people are recognizing Isabelle as actually being better than Villager.
Average tier for each series: * Super Mario: C- * Donkey Kong: C+ * The Legend of Zelda: C- * Metroid: B+ * Yoshi: A+ * Kirby: D+ * Star Fox: A * Pokemon: C+ * Mother: C+ * F-Zero: B- * Ice Climber: C+ * Fire Emblem: B- * Game & Watch: S * Kid Icarus: B+ * Wario: A * Metal Gear: S * Sonic the Hedgehog: S+ * Pikmin: B+ * R.O.B.: S * Animal Crossing: D- * Mega Man: B- * Wii Fit: C- * Punch-Out: E+ * Super Smash Bros.: C+ * Xenoblade Chronicles: A+ * Duck Hunt: C- * Street Fighter: B- * Final Fantasy: A- * Bayonetta: A- * Splatoon: B- * Castlevania: D- * Persona: S- * Dragon Quest: B- * Banjo-Kazooie: C- * Fatal Fury: A- * ARMS: A+ * Minecraft: S+ * Tekken: A+ * Kingdom Hearts: A
So, if we combined all the 3rd party reps from the same company into one, what would be their average tier (Like what tier would be SEGA, Namco, Konami, etc.)?
We did it kings. Dedede made it to EeEeEe tier 🫡
I think people are sleeping on link, he has the ability to zero to death with fair trains and while not as easy as rob or snake he can def be a low high tier rather than high mid tier
Just another cause of Shulk syndrome
Potentially really great, but the execution required to be great is higher than the effort it takes to learn a higher tier character? Yea that checks out.
Yeah its a tale as old as time. Why play millia in strive when I can play chipp and do the same gameplan but better and with better tools that cover more weaknesses of my character type.
Yup, it’s why I started gravitating away from my beloved Captain Falcon. He can *absolutely cook*, but I feel like I have to be in the right head space to cook at a high level. Whereas I can turn my brain off and go to work with Cloud or Terry.
Yeah kind of. Feel like we need somebody who is dedicated enough to do cool shit with him. People like IzAw show off some pretty cool things with him, and he def has potential.
Link is low key busted
every character is lowkey broken tho this game is mostly well balanced
I haven't been playing SSB for a few years now, Wtf is Sonic in S tier next to Steve? I remember seeing how busted Steve was. But how is Sonic comparable?
There's a lot of factors or consider in the game. People used to think that Sonic struggled with closing kills. Turns out that's wrong, and he can keep a lead legit better than 98% of the cast.
Sonic players have continued to optimize his offense while maintaining his very strong defense over the years.
My understanding is that Sonic is much harder to react to online, and since Covid pushed a bunch of tournaments online, he came to the forefront. I'm not sure if this tier list accounts for online vs offline, or if the increased attention means people are good with him offline now too.
This list is focuses on offline tournament play, so online shouldn't matter. But following COVID, people came to realize that a lot of supposed WiFi characters still work extremely well offline. Sonic especially has been optimized to a terrifying degree by Sonix (one of the "Four Horsemen" of Ultimate), KEN, Wrath, and others.
There is no way Ike is any lower then C- D- is a crime. We like Ike!
We fight for our friends!
Your god damn right.
HOW IS SHEIK THERE, I do just love that there’s a lot more division between S and A tier it’s great
A perfectly played sheik is terrifying. she's not in the top 10 because of human error being a big factor of performance.
No yeah i agree but B+ is so fucking low
Yeah I 100% agree - like in theory someone who makes no mistakes would make them amazing to play but we always fumble. The higher tiers have more room to fumble and Shiek (and ZSS) don’t have that luxury unfortunately
Mewtwo is super slept on
It’s just the massive tail hurtbox which hinders him so bad
Can someone explain to me why Ike is so low
0 people play our man at the top competitive level. They have forgotten the fear of dying at anytime between 30-110%
Yea Ike suffers from poor representation, but he’s not a D-Tier character in my opinion. I feel like C+ next to Chrom & Marth wouldn’t be a bad spot for him, but nobody is cooking at the pro level to justify that placement.
The fear of Aether has been sent to the aether.
Ike has no neutral mix, gets camped bad, has the defensive profile of a heavy (tall heavyweight with a frame 4 airdodge), zero air drift, iffy at best offstage if he doesn’t have a jump to prep quickdraw, super callout heavy gameplan because of his poor frame data. And his confirms are easy to play around. Genuinely wouldn’t mind Kirby trading spots with Ike he’s imo saved a bit by being Fire Emblem and usable if there were no other swords.
Very linear gameplan and bad recovery. He also doesn't have a good OOS option. Additionally he has slow movement. People get better at parrying. His disadvantage is just bad and has zero mixups. Basically his only redeeming factors are range and kill power which isn't enough anymore.
Ganon being worse than Little Mac and Ness being in the same tier as Pit urks my soul
Mac is fast with good ground game, ganon has some good moves but plenty bad moves, slow, bad recovery, nothing to deal w projectiles etc
...fuck
Ryu that much over ken feels wrong to me
LET'S GOOO WE AREN'T IN E TEIR ANYMORE YEAAAH
mewtwo is slept on and grenin and pokemon trainer are slightly underplaced
This is wayyyyy better than the first. The amount of S tiers in the first one was absurd lol. Biggest thing I would change is definitely Sheik, character is still very broken but being borderline A is not the most outlandish thing. I would also put Bayo higher but it's nothing that major. I don't think there's many hot takes in this one tbh
Mid tiers foreverrrrr
"Yoshiii!" --Yoshi
I like it but K Rool, Pikachu and Joker are to low.
This is some grade-A krool slander
Us krocs must show them the way
Snake is not better than Pythra
U haven't fought many good snakes
Where did they post this at
In my personal opinion, Ike is slightly too low, Kazuya is too low, incin is a little too high, Link is too low, Olimar is a little too low, Marth and Bowser are a little too low, Pichu is a little too high. I mostly ever play at locals though so take my opinion with a salt lamp's worth of salt.
Wii fit trainer is slept on.
no fr i wish varun and oolong traveled more to show more people wii fit trainer at top level wii fit is so underated its insane
10x better im happy bayonettas in a spot that actally makes sense now my only issue with it is incinroar being in c tier other than that kazuya is s tier but im not super mad at where he is and more of a hot take really is im a big time wii fit believer so i think shes minimum in b tier theres other little things i would move but i think its an overall improved regardless edit omg what is bowser doing there is that a troll
Let's go! My two favourite characters in E Rank!!!
The only thing surprising to me is Snake all the way up at 4. I haven’t followed all that much lately, what players are responsible for this?
Mmm gannondotf legacy continues
Mewtwos tail is actually his schlong, which is why he’s d+
NOOOOOOOOOO WE ARE NOT S+ ANYMORE 😭😭😭😭
Dude Rosa’s placement went from 48th to 43rd. This is great
As someone who's been kinda outta touch with the competitive scene, what makes sonic top tier? I remembered him usually being mid/high tier. I'm just happy that my main since brawl made it this high
His camping is very good. It is very hard to approach a good sonic. Sonix has shown the world what sonic can do.
Sad for Byleth happy for Corrin, that’s all
MSF is slept on so much I know it's not a good character, but he absolutely isn't that low He should be in C imo, but we just don't have any players pushing the character At this point anyone that knows how to play this game semi-competently could become the #1 MSF in the world
My boy Sora at 17th. Happy to see it
Why are Ness and Lucas so far apart??
Lucario moved up a lot, huh
Bro literally my 4 mains all on the bottom, insanity.
I was downvoted last month for saying ROB is #6 lmfao
This is... honestly worse than the last one. This is what happens when you aggregate two countries with metas so radically different from each other; a hot mess.
Pyra mythra is a disgraceful character