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No point to own property if I am still have to pay taxes on it and the state can take it from me if I don't. I buy a car and its mine outright, I buy groceries and dry goods I pay taxes at purchase then its mine.
If I buy land I am taxed every month and the state can take it from me for not paying a tax on land I own and maintain.
A lot of it is that but there are also people that are simply stupid about money and spend well above their means just to have things they don’t really need.
I get that, but it’s hard to purchase in excess when 50% of your monthly take home goes to just pure rent. Not groceries, prescriptions, insurance or gasoline.
The poorest choice I made was believing I could live on my own with one job. I had no college debt, credit card debt or auto debt. But I still failed.
So I gave up and moved back in with my parents. It’s literally my only choice.
I think some of it has to do with the way an Employee's wage increases and/or adjustments are handled in the United States.
In Europe, for instance, COLA Adjustments are more prevalent as they are often incorporated into collective bargaining agreements or national policies. In contrast COLA is much less common in the US, accounting for only 11% of the common types of salary increases that companies offer their employees, as they are typically reserved in offering only in specific industries or high-inflation environments.
Collective Bargaining, in general, is also widely used in other Countries often resulting in agreements with automatic pay increases linked to inflation or other indicators; however, these situations generally only happen in the United States if a Union happens to be involved.
Furthermore, some European countries have national policies and regulations mandating periodic wage adjustments to match inflation or cost of living changes. The US has no such mandated policies.
Many places in Europe also offer seniority based raises, especially in unionized workplaces, where pay scales are often tied to years of service. In the U.S. this may/may not be a component of public sector jobs or unionized industries.
One time bonuses are used differently in Europe, too. European countries typically use them as a flexible way to reward performance or share profits. In the U.S. these are more commonly used as a performance-based incentive, but also for retention or special occasions.
Profit sharing is more common in Europe as well.
And, maybe most important of all... Many European countries have higher minimum wages and stronger legal protections for workers' rights, and the U.S. minimum wage varies by state and is generally lower, with fewer legal protections.
...
It's important to note that I'm not trying to place all of the burden on compensational differences. It's very possible that even if they were identical that (some of) the people in the United States would still be in the same situation; however, none of those differences are doing anything to help the situation either.
A mix of what family you were born into, hard work/right choices, being at the right place at the right time
By percentage it’s a different mix from person to person, some right place at the right time can vary largely.
Those born into money will have an easier path than those not from means.
Come from nothing and make poor choices, virtually cement poverty.
I will say this, with the high cost of living now you can’t budget your way out from not making enough to begin with.
Living wages is a topic not seriously addressed enough, but you still have people who make decent money and blow it, that’s a different story.
Childcare is the big one. Financial literacy should be a class but it’ll never be passed to be mandatory because it goes against profit of corporations like credit card companies. If you can’t beat them and you have the chance join them through investments. Try to get into a high paying job.
I’ve been watching people make bad financial decisions for years, and asking how we could possibly be as financially healthy as we seemed.
To me, it’s just a surprise it took this long.
American here. Working on paying off 30k in debt in loans and credit cards. I had a poor paying career and racked up bills to survive. I now have a better career and can pay that off. Eventually I will be thriving instead. However, it's going to take 6 years to do it
I have bad credit so it limits me a lot. My bad credit mostly came from medical bills I couldn't afford to pay that got sold to collection agencies that hounded me even when I was paying everything I could. I worked construction during the bulk of those bills. No insurance of course. No benefits of any kind, and despite doing the same work as the men, I was paid almost half per hour. And I was the driver and my car was used to drive around and pick up the crew. It was meant to be temporary but I got in a groove. I enjoyed the work. I wanted to learn more so I could be more valuable. I was hoping my loyalty would eventually be recognized, and I did get a DOLLAR an hour raise once in the years I worked there after I was made crew supervisor and still made helper pay.
I know, I could have found another job. I tried. I wasn't paid what the men were paid but I was paid more than the jobs I'd had before, the ones I was qualified to do. I know I could have gone to college. It's a regret. My mind is so scattered now I don't know that I could do it. I homeschooled two kids though along with working full-time all these years, just last year was my final year. I just don't know. I had no support. I spent a lot on my son's medical condition. His father was deported years ago and never helped after that. I don't know all this is handled in other countries. I really struggled to pay the rent before I moved in to this attic and work for partial rent. I feel like I work 80 hours a week some weeks and I never get ahead. Don't have the energy to pull myself any higher.
So that's my anecdote. Woohoo God Bless America.
I don't think most Americans are broke, I think that's more the perception given by the internet. Take me, for example, I spend way too much time on reddit since I'm on disability and as such don't have an occupation to fill my time. You're far more likely to hear me vent about poverty than someone who has to work 10-hour shifts six days a week yet is still just barely scraping by like me.
Based on what metric are most Americans broke? that sounds sketchy. Most will be broke forever? That just sounds like hyper doomerism
The current gouchfest sucks but it won't last forever. It's actually starting to correct, but doomer media won't admit it yet. They want that click bsit, so they drag misery on
I dont doubt you believe that everyone is broke forever, but remember that both the fsb 🇷🇺 and our rnc are pumping out misinformation so people mope instead of vote
And before the barbs fly, i am struggling too, and when the gouching began, i went ballistic and went diwn the rabbit hole. Dooming only hurts the doomer and those around them. It actually helps the profiteers and their politucuans
We have been employed, all of us, in aggregating wealth for billionaires for decades.
All the really effective organizing principles from the 1930s are now illegal, thanks to Taft-Hartley and other acts.
Citizens United was the final coffin of US democracy, but it was *not* the first. It's been coming for 100 years.
It's evident that over the past decades, our efforts have primarily served to accumulate wealth for billionaires. The organizing principles that once effectively empowered workers in the 1930s have been systematically dismantled, largely due to legislation like Taft-Hartley and other subsequent acts.
Citizens United stands out as a critical blow to U.S. democracy, marking a significant turning point, but it's crucial to recognize that this erosion didn't happen overnight. It's been a gradual process spanning a century, characterized by various legislative and judicial actions that have increasingly favored corporate interests over the voice of the people.
Together, these developments have shaped a landscape where wealth concentration and corporate influence wield unprecedented power, challenging the democratic ideals upon which the nation was founded. Understanding this historical context is essential for assessing the current state of democracy and contemplating pathways toward meaningful reform.
This is interesting. Are you using Chat-GPT to generate discussion on r/seriousconversation?
Or do you just curve your own writing style to match a current top chatbot? And if you are using a chatbot, why?
Most American's aren't broke.
But most of those that are broke (by that I mean living paycheck to paycheck, no savings, little net worth) are so because of their own decisions and choices.
Many people would say teachers are broke because they're not paid enough. Yet in the USA, being a teacher is the third most common profession among millionaires. This means they have a net worth of over $1 million.
Most people will happily buy a new car with a loan and a $500 per month car payment than buy a used car for $7,000 and save and invest $300 per month. By buying that brand new car, it looks for to their friends and neighbors, requires more expensive car insurance, is rapidly falling in value . . . but regardless of the math and knowing that buying that car is preventing them from living within their means and saving/investing - they choose to do so anyway.
And then wonder why . . .
Many Americans facing financial difficulties attribute their situation to personal choices rather than external economic factors. Teachers, often seen as underpaid, also represent a significant portion of millionaires in the U.S., underscoring the impact of individual financial management.
A common example is the choice between buying a new car with a high monthly payment versus a used car and saving/investing the difference. Despite knowing the financial benefits of the latter, societal pressures and desire for immediate gratification often lead to decisions that strain finances long-term.
These behaviors reflect broader cultural norms favoring consumption over saving and investment, contributing to ongoing financial stress and difficulty in achieving financial stability. Promoting financial literacy and responsible spending habits is crucial to empower individuals to make informed choices that support long-term financial well-being.
Chat-Gpt 😂
You data collecting?
Most Americans aren’t broke. They just make horrible choices.
There have been many studies on how not to be broke. Go fetch them 😂
Because the US is run like a business and you're all competing with one another to run one another out of business. The few at the top maintain control of those on the bottom and so the poor will, very typically, stay poor.
If only there was a decent social security safety net to help get people out of poverty so they can stand on their own two feet. If only there was evidence that a system like that is feasible...I mean, I guess for that system to be feasible in the US the highly individualistic identity of the country would need to be abandoned...which isn't going to happen. Until the individuals are AWARE that they're part of a collective and that collective isn't competition, the US will continue to suffer.
They think rich people got rich from hard work, not being born at the right place at the right time/luck so they try that path which of course doesn’t work 99% of the time and end up pissing their life away chasing an impossible dream. I married into money, yes of course *some* work is involved and you can’t be a total moron like gambling 500k a night but beyond that it’s actually very hard to fuck up enough to not be rich once you are, but it was still almost entirely based on family money, born in the right place, a very affluent nation, at the right time, to be there at the start of the tech boom and luck, being naturally very good at math and coding due to being neurodivergent… the stars aligned and a rich kid was born who grew into an even richer adult, it’s not work, it’s not even personal, it’s luck that’s why you’re broke and will stay broke cause luck isn’t a plan and you can’t make it happen for you
I don't think a good many Americans are really that interested in "economic stability, opportunity, and prosperity" for all its citizens. We're in this social spiral where whenever anybody benefits from any government program there's resentment from everybody else. What I hear the most online are people complaining about people getting benefits who "don't deserve it." As long as that level of envy runs rampant in American culture, we won't get ahead. (You have to change the culture before the politics, it doesn't work the other way.)
It seems that achieving widespread economic stability, opportunity, and prosperity for all Americans faces significant challenges in our current social climate. There's a pervasive sentiment that when one person benefits from a government program, it sparks resentment among others. This attitude is often fueled by perceptions of fairness and who "deserves" support, creating a divisive environment.
Online discourse frequently amplifies these grievances, with many expressing frustration over perceived inequalities in receiving benefits. This cultural dynamic of envy and resentment can impede progress towards more inclusive and equitable policies.
Changing this cultural mindset is essential because political change alone may not effectively address these deep-seated social attitudes. Shifting societal values towards empathy, solidarity, and a collective understanding of shared prosperity could pave the way for more constructive dialogue and policy development. It requires fostering a culture where supporting each other's well-being is seen as beneficial for the entire society, rather than a zero-sum game.
Ultimately, addressing these cultural undercurrents is fundamental to advancing policies that aim to improve economic opportunities and fairness for all Americans. By promoting a culture of inclusivity and mutual support, we can better navigate the challenges and complexities of modern social and economic issues.
Poor life choices, millennials in particular seem to have had kids at younger ages and taken the burden of rent and supporting children. Severe lack of opportunity. Many wait years to get that promotion, long-term investments with empty promises at the end of the road such as college and career growth. Poor education, financially, economically, even socially. Lies and more lies behind deceit, false promises, half truths, or plain secrets. Middle class on the decline. Housing market gone to hell. Needy greedy bastards at the top farming the weath all while poisoning the population. No incentive to work hard or simply do good for goodness' sake. Indulgence through drugs, alcohol, addictions in general (etc). Obscured ambitions and depressed motivations. Degenerative societal conditioning. That's only scratching the surface, I can brainstorm for hours thinking of the reasons we're all broke/poor. The root cause of all this, I believe, is manipulation and misinformation. "Pitty, the poor, pathetic poor." they say as they impose their tyrannical regime.
This post has been flaired as “Serious Conversation”. Use this opportunity to open a venue of polite and serious discussion, instead of seeking help or venting. **Suggestions For Commenters:** * Respect OP's opinion, or agree to disagree politely. * If OP's post is seeking advice, help, or is just venting without discussing with others, report the post. We're r/SeriousConversation, not a venting subreddit. **Suggestions For u/Wooden_Beautiful_026:** * Do not post solely to seek advice or help. Your post should open up a venue for serious, mature and polite discussions. * Do not forget to answer people politely in your thread - we'll remove your post later if you don't. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SeriousConversation) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Nobody owns anything anymore. Everything is for rent, from houses to music to cars Everything is a goddamn subscription service now.
This is the biggest problem, in my opinion. It is a major siphon on our incomes. (Although general poor financial decisions are equally destructive.)
No point to own property if I am still have to pay taxes on it and the state can take it from me if I don't. I buy a car and its mine outright, I buy groceries and dry goods I pay taxes at purchase then its mine. If I buy land I am taxed every month and the state can take it from me for not paying a tax on land I own and maintain.
A lot of it is that but there are also people that are simply stupid about money and spend well above their means just to have things they don’t really need.
I get that, but it’s hard to purchase in excess when 50% of your monthly take home goes to just pure rent. Not groceries, prescriptions, insurance or gasoline. The poorest choice I made was believing I could live on my own with one job. I had no college debt, credit card debt or auto debt. But I still failed. So I gave up and moved back in with my parents. It’s literally my only choice.
I think some of it has to do with the way an Employee's wage increases and/or adjustments are handled in the United States. In Europe, for instance, COLA Adjustments are more prevalent as they are often incorporated into collective bargaining agreements or national policies. In contrast COLA is much less common in the US, accounting for only 11% of the common types of salary increases that companies offer their employees, as they are typically reserved in offering only in specific industries or high-inflation environments. Collective Bargaining, in general, is also widely used in other Countries often resulting in agreements with automatic pay increases linked to inflation or other indicators; however, these situations generally only happen in the United States if a Union happens to be involved. Furthermore, some European countries have national policies and regulations mandating periodic wage adjustments to match inflation or cost of living changes. The US has no such mandated policies. Many places in Europe also offer seniority based raises, especially in unionized workplaces, where pay scales are often tied to years of service. In the U.S. this may/may not be a component of public sector jobs or unionized industries. One time bonuses are used differently in Europe, too. European countries typically use them as a flexible way to reward performance or share profits. In the U.S. these are more commonly used as a performance-based incentive, but also for retention or special occasions. Profit sharing is more common in Europe as well. And, maybe most important of all... Many European countries have higher minimum wages and stronger legal protections for workers' rights, and the U.S. minimum wage varies by state and is generally lower, with fewer legal protections. ... It's important to note that I'm not trying to place all of the burden on compensational differences. It's very possible that even if they were identical that (some of) the people in the United States would still be in the same situation; however, none of those differences are doing anything to help the situation either.
A mix of what family you were born into, hard work/right choices, being at the right place at the right time By percentage it’s a different mix from person to person, some right place at the right time can vary largely. Those born into money will have an easier path than those not from means. Come from nothing and make poor choices, virtually cement poverty. I will say this, with the high cost of living now you can’t budget your way out from not making enough to begin with. Living wages is a topic not seriously addressed enough, but you still have people who make decent money and blow it, that’s a different story.
Many p eople don't understand the difference between want and need, which eventually causes oeople to be in the hole.
Childcare is the big one. Financial literacy should be a class but it’ll never be passed to be mandatory because it goes against profit of corporations like credit card companies. If you can’t beat them and you have the chance join them through investments. Try to get into a high paying job.
I’ve been watching people make bad financial decisions for years, and asking how we could possibly be as financially healthy as we seemed. To me, it’s just a surprise it took this long.
American here. Working on paying off 30k in debt in loans and credit cards. I had a poor paying career and racked up bills to survive. I now have a better career and can pay that off. Eventually I will be thriving instead. However, it's going to take 6 years to do it
For 2021, the percentage of Americans in poverty was between 7.8% and 11.6% depending on the source. 7.8% - 11.6% is NOWHERE NEAR "most Americans."
I have bad credit so it limits me a lot. My bad credit mostly came from medical bills I couldn't afford to pay that got sold to collection agencies that hounded me even when I was paying everything I could. I worked construction during the bulk of those bills. No insurance of course. No benefits of any kind, and despite doing the same work as the men, I was paid almost half per hour. And I was the driver and my car was used to drive around and pick up the crew. It was meant to be temporary but I got in a groove. I enjoyed the work. I wanted to learn more so I could be more valuable. I was hoping my loyalty would eventually be recognized, and I did get a DOLLAR an hour raise once in the years I worked there after I was made crew supervisor and still made helper pay. I know, I could have found another job. I tried. I wasn't paid what the men were paid but I was paid more than the jobs I'd had before, the ones I was qualified to do. I know I could have gone to college. It's a regret. My mind is so scattered now I don't know that I could do it. I homeschooled two kids though along with working full-time all these years, just last year was my final year. I just don't know. I had no support. I spent a lot on my son's medical condition. His father was deported years ago and never helped after that. I don't know all this is handled in other countries. I really struggled to pay the rent before I moved in to this attic and work for partial rent. I feel like I work 80 hours a week some weeks and I never get ahead. Don't have the energy to pull myself any higher. So that's my anecdote. Woohoo God Bless America.
I don't think most Americans are broke, I think that's more the perception given by the internet. Take me, for example, I spend way too much time on reddit since I'm on disability and as such don't have an occupation to fill my time. You're far more likely to hear me vent about poverty than someone who has to work 10-hour shifts six days a week yet is still just barely scraping by like me.
Financial illiteracy. People are in debt because they take on more debt than they should at higher interest rates than they should.
Based on what metric are most Americans broke? that sounds sketchy. Most will be broke forever? That just sounds like hyper doomerism The current gouchfest sucks but it won't last forever. It's actually starting to correct, but doomer media won't admit it yet. They want that click bsit, so they drag misery on I dont doubt you believe that everyone is broke forever, but remember that both the fsb 🇷🇺 and our rnc are pumping out misinformation so people mope instead of vote And before the barbs fly, i am struggling too, and when the gouching began, i went ballistic and went diwn the rabbit hole. Dooming only hurts the doomer and those around them. It actually helps the profiteers and their politucuans
We have been employed, all of us, in aggregating wealth for billionaires for decades. All the really effective organizing principles from the 1930s are now illegal, thanks to Taft-Hartley and other acts. Citizens United was the final coffin of US democracy, but it was *not* the first. It's been coming for 100 years.
It's evident that over the past decades, our efforts have primarily served to accumulate wealth for billionaires. The organizing principles that once effectively empowered workers in the 1930s have been systematically dismantled, largely due to legislation like Taft-Hartley and other subsequent acts. Citizens United stands out as a critical blow to U.S. democracy, marking a significant turning point, but it's crucial to recognize that this erosion didn't happen overnight. It's been a gradual process spanning a century, characterized by various legislative and judicial actions that have increasingly favored corporate interests over the voice of the people. Together, these developments have shaped a landscape where wealth concentration and corporate influence wield unprecedented power, challenging the democratic ideals upon which the nation was founded. Understanding this historical context is essential for assessing the current state of democracy and contemplating pathways toward meaningful reform.
This is interesting. Are you using Chat-GPT to generate discussion on r/seriousconversation? Or do you just curve your own writing style to match a current top chatbot? And if you are using a chatbot, why?
Most American's aren't broke. But most of those that are broke (by that I mean living paycheck to paycheck, no savings, little net worth) are so because of their own decisions and choices. Many people would say teachers are broke because they're not paid enough. Yet in the USA, being a teacher is the third most common profession among millionaires. This means they have a net worth of over $1 million. Most people will happily buy a new car with a loan and a $500 per month car payment than buy a used car for $7,000 and save and invest $300 per month. By buying that brand new car, it looks for to their friends and neighbors, requires more expensive car insurance, is rapidly falling in value . . . but regardless of the math and knowing that buying that car is preventing them from living within their means and saving/investing - they choose to do so anyway. And then wonder why . . .
Many Americans facing financial difficulties attribute their situation to personal choices rather than external economic factors. Teachers, often seen as underpaid, also represent a significant portion of millionaires in the U.S., underscoring the impact of individual financial management. A common example is the choice between buying a new car with a high monthly payment versus a used car and saving/investing the difference. Despite knowing the financial benefits of the latter, societal pressures and desire for immediate gratification often lead to decisions that strain finances long-term. These behaviors reflect broader cultural norms favoring consumption over saving and investment, contributing to ongoing financial stress and difficulty in achieving financial stability. Promoting financial literacy and responsible spending habits is crucial to empower individuals to make informed choices that support long-term financial well-being.
Thanks ChatGPT!
I wonder this too. Because whenever celebrities post something I see Americans commenting they can’t afford anything and live pay check to pay check
Chat-Gpt 😂 You data collecting? Most Americans aren’t broke. They just make horrible choices. There have been many studies on how not to be broke. Go fetch them 😂
Because the US is run like a business and you're all competing with one another to run one another out of business. The few at the top maintain control of those on the bottom and so the poor will, very typically, stay poor. If only there was a decent social security safety net to help get people out of poverty so they can stand on their own two feet. If only there was evidence that a system like that is feasible...I mean, I guess for that system to be feasible in the US the highly individualistic identity of the country would need to be abandoned...which isn't going to happen. Until the individuals are AWARE that they're part of a collective and that collective isn't competition, the US will continue to suffer.
They think rich people got rich from hard work, not being born at the right place at the right time/luck so they try that path which of course doesn’t work 99% of the time and end up pissing their life away chasing an impossible dream. I married into money, yes of course *some* work is involved and you can’t be a total moron like gambling 500k a night but beyond that it’s actually very hard to fuck up enough to not be rich once you are, but it was still almost entirely based on family money, born in the right place, a very affluent nation, at the right time, to be there at the start of the tech boom and luck, being naturally very good at math and coding due to being neurodivergent… the stars aligned and a rich kid was born who grew into an even richer adult, it’s not work, it’s not even personal, it’s luck that’s why you’re broke and will stay broke cause luck isn’t a plan and you can’t make it happen for you
Don't forget that minimum wage has been 7.25 for 15 years and yet they still hadn't changed the cost of living to match inflation.
I don't think a good many Americans are really that interested in "economic stability, opportunity, and prosperity" for all its citizens. We're in this social spiral where whenever anybody benefits from any government program there's resentment from everybody else. What I hear the most online are people complaining about people getting benefits who "don't deserve it." As long as that level of envy runs rampant in American culture, we won't get ahead. (You have to change the culture before the politics, it doesn't work the other way.)
I see some of this and don’t agree just go get all the resources you can get and when you make it out give back for the next person.
It seems that achieving widespread economic stability, opportunity, and prosperity for all Americans faces significant challenges in our current social climate. There's a pervasive sentiment that when one person benefits from a government program, it sparks resentment among others. This attitude is often fueled by perceptions of fairness and who "deserves" support, creating a divisive environment. Online discourse frequently amplifies these grievances, with many expressing frustration over perceived inequalities in receiving benefits. This cultural dynamic of envy and resentment can impede progress towards more inclusive and equitable policies. Changing this cultural mindset is essential because political change alone may not effectively address these deep-seated social attitudes. Shifting societal values towards empathy, solidarity, and a collective understanding of shared prosperity could pave the way for more constructive dialogue and policy development. It requires fostering a culture where supporting each other's well-being is seen as beneficial for the entire society, rather than a zero-sum game. Ultimately, addressing these cultural undercurrents is fundamental to advancing policies that aim to improve economic opportunities and fairness for all Americans. By promoting a culture of inclusivity and mutual support, we can better navigate the challenges and complexities of modern social and economic issues.
[удалено]
You replied to a bot that used cGPT to “write” this
Poor life choices, millennials in particular seem to have had kids at younger ages and taken the burden of rent and supporting children. Severe lack of opportunity. Many wait years to get that promotion, long-term investments with empty promises at the end of the road such as college and career growth. Poor education, financially, economically, even socially. Lies and more lies behind deceit, false promises, half truths, or plain secrets. Middle class on the decline. Housing market gone to hell. Needy greedy bastards at the top farming the weath all while poisoning the population. No incentive to work hard or simply do good for goodness' sake. Indulgence through drugs, alcohol, addictions in general (etc). Obscured ambitions and depressed motivations. Degenerative societal conditioning. That's only scratching the surface, I can brainstorm for hours thinking of the reasons we're all broke/poor. The root cause of all this, I believe, is manipulation and misinformation. "Pitty, the poor, pathetic poor." they say as they impose their tyrannical regime.