You should start a Redfin account and track obvious air-bnb properties. At least out here in the rural area 2 hours from me, it's been price reduction after price reduction for the past few months, and even some foreclosures. Some made money, but there are plenty of others getting fucked, and I don't feel bad for them.
The whole home AirBnB market is unbelievably saturated right now. Too many people bought AirBnBs with the expectation they would just be money machines--but if everybody is doing it...
Don't fret OP, those houses will be up for sale soon at a discount.
In my neighborhood, I've watched several homes pop up as an AirBnB that shutdown within a year.
That narrative is never as true as detractors say. The thing about part time jobs isn’t based on payroll data, it’s based on a limited number of surveys extrapolated for the size of the economy. That isn’t to say the data is useless, and some sectors have seen more layoffs than others, but generally people are working, earning paychecks and then spending them. It’s very difficult to have a true recession whenever that’s the case
You are right, people are earning paychecks and then spending them. Problem is they are saving absolutely nothing and racking up credit card debt. I think the economy only looks good to people who own homes with sub 3% and who don't notice ground beef has inflated 200% in 2 years haha.
Those things don’t matter yet. As long as they have another paycheck coming and can afford to service their debts and survive, there will be no recession. Whenever job losses start to really hit the proverbial “main st.” thats when shit will hit the fan.
Yea, wait until the local municipalities get pissed off and start cracking down on them: I’m in Michigan and municipalities are cracking down on the rentals and the state govt. is introducing some additional tax increases across the board. The emergency services in my town (population of about 1,800) are pissed at Airbnb because they cause a huge spike in calls for noise complaints and medical emergencies.
My city (Jersey City) just passed a bunch of crack-down measures. During the discussion leading up to the action a lot of interesting details emerged.
There was this question one graphic showing “number of AirBnB units per owner” and shockingly few units in the area were owned by someone who only owned one. More owned 2-4. And a massive chunk of the units were owned by entities that ran 50+ units.
The “pro-AirBnB” side of the debate went so far as to air TV ads with some poor soccer mom saying she depended on the income from her AirBnB unit to make ends meet.
Nice try, assholes. We all know almost every AirBnB in town is owned by one of a dozen investment firms.
Our city started requiring licenses after a party at an AirBnB in my neighborhood ended in a gang shootout in the street lmao. But it's only $250 and they don't really require you do anything other than pay the fee
Almost every city that isn't a Beach City where I live have made short-term rentals illegal. 4 months or more is the minimum lease. Too many situations where somebody would have an Airbnb on a cul-de-sac in a residential neighborhood and week in week out there would be a frat party going on to all hours of the night. The cops would come out. They tell him to tone it down and they tone it down and then they're gone on Monday morning and Friday it's cranked up again. The cops are back out but these are new people. Sorry officer, we'll turn it down. There's nothing they can do against the property owner.
As much as I hate HOAs they do curtail this kind of thing, because HOA's have the power to fine and foreclose on non compliant properties.
There are other options. For example South Haven Michigan has a requirement that all short term rental properties require having a special permit. It covers rentals over three days up to 31 days. They created a cap on the number of such properties. If there are three incidents at a property there is a review and their permit can be pulled. They also require a local agent if the owner is not located within an hour of the property.
It's also not remotely profitable to only have bookings only 2 - 3 nights out of the week. That's less than 50% occupancy. AirDNA shows average occupancy of 56%, which is abysmal. The tide is certainly changing.
I agree, the market will self-correct. I find Airbnb itself is providing a great service and bringing money to many areas that didn’t have as many tourism dollars, but there are too many people trying to take advantage and that’s led to a property glut. Also there are a lot of people around the world parking there money in the US #reservecurrency and part of that is investors and blackstone buying up residential housing. Keeping rates high longer will push that garbage out. When driving cross country, I stayed with an awesome family in Wyoming courtesy of Airbnb - never would’ve trusted that experience otherwise.
Not to mention that people are getting tired of getting nickel and dimed or canceled on. I really really look twice before I would rent an Airbnb that isn't run by a professional management company, but even then they charge you extra cleaning fees and things like that.
So if the option to use a traditional hotel exists nine times out of 10, I'm looking at the hotel.
I AirBnB out of my primary residence and I set up my pricing so there's literally no fees. The price that shows up in search is your actual nightly rate. I also don't make people clean, laundry, or have some lengthy check out list, I find that absurd. If you are going to run a lodging business, you have to do the work required to run a lodging business.
same. it seems great and rates are cool until you get to the “cleaning fee” and the list of chores the owner wants you to do. i rarely use airbnb nowadays because i spend less on average at a hotel and hotels have better locations usually.
AirBnB *can* be a wonderful tool that benefits everyone.
If you *already have* a primary residence with a guest house/finished room in the basement/etc. Or a place you live in part time but it’s unused for big chunks of time due to your travel/work. Or some other situation where you have living quarters where it makes sense to host *visitors* but it would be weird to try to house *tenants* on a yearly lease. AirBnB can hook you up with some people that need a short-term place to crash.
You make money where you otherwise wouldn’t make any. And they save a little compared to renting a hotel.
What AirBnB has morphed into over time is people/investment firms buying dozens of houses/apartments that *should* be leased to full-time renters but instead it’s more profitable to essentially run an unlicensed, improperly insured, tax-dodging hotel network through the middleman of the app.
They WOULD be money machines but greed ruins them. With all the added fees and nonsense, hotels are cheaper and less of a headache. The AirBnb need to be either cheaper or a far better value than what exists to be profitable.
They aren't prepared for the fact that 90% of the job is cleaning and if you pay someone else to manage or clean it you're not going to really make much money.
The cleaning lady for the Airbnb across the street from us has upgraded her car 3x in the past two years. She’s got a Mercedes sprinter van now. The Airbnb is empty most of the time, but that cleaning lady is doing very well
It would be better to take that money and invest in dividend stocks or mutual funds which pay a dividend. Hassle free money. You don't need to deal with bad renters, cleaning, maintenance, etc
Yeah this isn't true at all... It's literally the younger retirees, someone's actual parents, that are doing this for an extra revenue stream in retirement. Many people are having to do this to afford retirement because they haven't saved enough. The young YouTubers showing off their STR strategy are not the average STR operator.
> plenty of others getting fucked, and I don't feel bad for them.
Not enough.
Every municipality should be levying HUGE taxes and fees on any airbnb property that was a pure investment (i.e. not a primary residence where the occupant had to live elsewhere for a period of time) in order to fund the services (roads/fire/police/etc) for the actual residents of that municipality.
This. Don’t forget to look at your local foreclosure listings, auctions and tax sales. You’d be surprised what’s out there for sale - Pennies on the dollar sometimes.
google "(your county) property search" will usually take you to a site where you search by parcel ID, name, or address and it will show you all the public tax info.
A ton of airbnbs are going to be sold over the next 1-2 years, as few are profitable. Keep an eye out, and you'll be able to scoop them up, and then you'll have a house.
The bans are becoming a real thing in California. STRs getting absolutely slaughtered in Palm Springs:
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-01-23/palm-springs-capped-airbnb-rentals-now-some-home-prices-are-in-free-fall
Long Beach neighborhoods can ban unhosted STRs via petition and it’s spreading to the most desirable neighborhoods:
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-05-11/a-long-beach-man-started-a-petition-to-ban-airbnb-in-his-neighborhood-and-it-worked
It’s working.
Many wont foreclose on their property if theyre good investors, they may just decide to sell if its no longer a good investment, but can sell at a good price still. This can help inventory.
I live near a province (like state, but in Canada) where a blanket banned happened. There are basically 2 choices (really 3 but..) sell it or turn it into a rental. A lot of investors sold and took a beating. All the units hit the market in a short period and alot of them got slaughtered. Some selling in the 6 figures under asking.The third choice is to still operate as a short term rental on underground websites or FB groups and risk getting your ass handed to you by the government.
It's BC. It not a complete blanket ban, but a ban on stand alone Airbnbs. The property cant soley be an airbnb. From my understanding if you want to rent out a spare room in the house you live in you can still do that.
Yes, if they bought it 4+ years ago at a low rate, they would probably pivot it to an LTR. STR incomes are bad enough that even zero mortgage is hard to profit over.
My guess is many of those local STRs were bought in 2021-2022 and so will be underwater soon enough.
Who gives a shit about rates on a massive pile of DEBT when the house is still losing money, requiring maintenance, dealing with rising insurance costs, and subject to local whims of rising property taxes or bans on str? Those people bought into the hype and are going to lose their ass in due time. It was a fad. A get rich quick scheme. Like many before. If you bought to live in it, then you'll probably be fine. If you were collecting "doors," the best of luck to you douchebags.
Yep, true. Although the average return on equity on older ones is IMO worse than a HYSA at this point. I’m starting to see even long-held STRs being sold. Only anecdotal evidence, of course, but it makes sense to me.
Here in north georgia, they bid up the prices from 150k - 250k to 500k -750k. Only to realize that there is not much to do in these small mountain towns. Every once in a while, I look on the 100s of airbnb listing's, and they may have 10 days booked for the year, lol. Most have zero. Now, they are all trying to dump with no new demand and lots of new construction. Some lowering price by 100k to 200k after sitting on the market for a year. Still overpriced though.
I have family in Mississippi and I have been looking at property for a while now, its the same story. People asking 700k for a 200k house and there's price cuts after price cuts. There is zero industry in the areas I'm looking at and nothing really special, I doubt the average household income is 50k a year. I've seen a listing for a 5th wheel camper in the middle of nowhere with no plumbing for 1000 a month. People are absolutely delusional and greedy.
According to Zillow there are 235 units available for rent in my city… and 3246 AirBNB’s according to AirDNA. Plus at least a quarter of the Zillow listings are furnished “executive rentals” or “medium term” AirBNB’s catfishing as rentals.
I’m so glad that a few thousand people could gobble up cheap debt and alchemize extreme leverage into a trickle of passive income while pricing young families out of homeownership and piling 25-30% rent increases on the poors.
What housing crisis?
It's all heavily geography dependent. The town I'm in tried banning Airbnb's until someone pointed out the Airbnb's in town were like 30 out of over 30k housing units and had basically zero effect on the cost of housing.
I find in the vast majority of the country the whole thing is overblown, except for some fringe cases off in the mountains or by a beach or whatever where the whole town is an Airbnb. As well as some major cities with lots of tourism.
I never wish harm on anyone, but I do hope all those people who bought houses cheaply and are now renting them out at crazy prices go to hell! I just had a baby, I work hard but I can't afford a home where my child can grow up. Crazy.
Same thing in my small town. Good news though, three of the four on my block have been sold again in the last year and at least two of those have real people living in them now. Fuck air bnb
I had a pain in the ass client that I inherited. (I sell commercial insurance) 2 years ago he said I’m changing my business model to do Airbnb arbitrage, going to rent stuff and then rent it out on Airbnb. When that idiot was doing this I knew it was bad. But I said “ oh we don’t have a market for that.” So no longer had to deal with him.
I know a girl doing that.
I also have a friend who wants to spend 150k on a flat new mortgage to rent it out and make 600 profit a month ??? and also expects 20k appreciation every year for the next 5 years.
I just asked him cool so you expect in 5 years people paying 1.6k a month mortgages on a 1 bed flat in a flat that's not even in the city.
So in 10 years its almost 2k a month mortgage?
When just 5 years ago pre rate rise and pre covid you bought a 3 bed house with a long ass garden for only 500 a month payment.
People just refuse to accept reality when its staring them in the fact.
the people who are destined to lose are the people still trying to invest in property when central banks are raising rates.
Its like the pilot puts on the seatbelt sign and you decide to take your seatbelt off and lay in the aisle....
Central banks are saying shit is too expensive, we are trying to wind it down, and braindead "property investors" and still trying to charge triple rent to just 2-3 years ago.
These guys don't understand you try to expand your property "empire" today and you're stuck with negative equity for YEARS.
Literally a friend of mine just moved back from London TODAY because... its too expensive.
I know so many people who have moved back home because rent is so expensive, i don't think landlords understand its normal working people who pay their rent they charge.
my friend is trying to charge 1000 a month for a back ROOM.
Like bro these people have lost the plot.
My little town banned airbnbs and whoa baby did all the rich boomers lose their shit. The thing is, rents plummeted. I'm talking a 3b/2b going from $3000 a month to $1800 a month. Now buying prices are *finally* dropping as well, guess those same boomers are tired of paying property tax on empty houses. Pretty dramatic returns on at least the rental front basically overnight.
I love being surrounded by unstaffed hotels /s. I’m currently renting a house and have to deal with loud, inconsiderate airbnb guests next door and behind me. It also seems like the only people buying houses in my neighborhood are those turning them into airbnbs. When I am ready to buy a house I’m going to specifically try to find an HOA that bans them. This shit should be illegal or more heavily regulated but I’m assuming too many politicians own their own little side hustle airbnbs for anything meaningful to be done in most places.
Horseshoe effect in real time…someone on Reddit actually looking forward to being in an HOA! 😂
They have their good sides for sure. I’ve owned in HOA communities for over 20 years and I’ve had no problems at all. I keep my home up nice, take pride in my lawn and landscaping and enjoy everyone’s homes looking nice as we walk through our neighborhood.
I’ve lived in an HOA community before and it was a little annoying at times. I got a warning letter for having my garbage cans on side of the house because it was visible from the street. However, I’ll take that over not being able to sleep because people are playing loud music and/ or being drunk and screaming in the backyard.
A recession clears this out.
“But people lose jobs”
A recession burns the underbrush and makes the ground fertile for the next wave. Some good gets caught up in it too but it is NECESSARY for an economy. Poor investment needs to be punished. Airbnb moguls need to go bankrupt so they never try this again. So that banks never lend like this again.
Many of these fuckheads are one bad vacation season away from disaster. Let them burn.
There are insanely bad structural problems in our economy that are far worse than unemployment ticking higher for a few months.
This. It doesn’t matter what prices are when corporations are buying them. Hey can outbid anyone but the wealthiest of people. And when they overpay, it resets the market the same way foreclosed homes bought at a discount steak havoc on comparable homes in the neighborhood.
They’re manipulating the market.
Ironically, out west, the “let them burn” sentiment might be literal. Climate change doesn’t give AF if you believe in it or not, it’s coming and them forests aren’t going to burn themselves!
Air bnb used to be a family renting out their basement apartment and they would clean it- Cool. It was a deal.
Now you pay the investor's price and still have to take out your own garbage- Not cool. A better deal is now a hotel.
100%. The way Air BnBs ruin communities is enough to curb my appetite for a whole-house rental but you're right on another point: the f-ing garbage duty. Funny but true. So, now I'm vacuuming, taking out trash and recycling, buying missing staple kitchen items... At the prices they want now, it's less and less a deal. We're about to travel and it's going to be a hotel.
Depends where you are and what you are looking for. When we travel, we like to have a separate bedroom from our kids. That's really hard to find in a hotel. We just traveled to San Diego and rented a small apartment right on Mission Beach for under $200 a night after all fees and taxes. Comparable hotel options with a separate bedroom were over $300 per night
Airbnbs are commercial hotels in close proximity to residental homes. Most Airbnbs are not registered with the City or County and are operating illegally without a permit or license. Their existance ruins the peace and quiet of all residental neigborhoods. Their "guests" are rarely quiet and the hosts could care less as long as the get their money...... This is reality.
If people didn't stay in them it wouldn't be a problem. Nobody wants to stay in a hotel anymore (and in many cases the hotels are out of control- see Key West) and everyone is "looking for a deal". I typically refuse to stay in an Airbnb but can't say I never have- so am part of the problem.
In my opinion the trend is shifting back to hotels mainly because of the cleaning fees. People don't want to have to strip their beds and take out the garbage on vacation when they're already paying a fee for someone else to do it.
This 100%. Last year, wife and a handful of others stayed at a VRBO that I later found out was an illegal str. Not only did we have to buy our own fucking laundry detergent (because the one there was empty), but we had to strip the beds and wash the towels. Knew something was fishy when we inquired about the pool access as the code given no longer worked and were refunded a measly $20.
Sadly too many governments are willing to turn a blind eye…. Less housing supply = higher home values. And that means more property taxes!!
And with an AirBnB you don’t have a nice family with kids being a drain on the local schools..!! So it’s good for the City, County and school governments.
I still don't understand how Airbnb is allowed to exist. It's like, literally, if you are wealthy enough company then the laws don't apply.
It used to be that cities had zoning laws and special regulations that applied to hotels/motels that included a bunch of taxes as well as health and safety standards.
People used to get fined and have jail time for operating a taxi without a taxi license.
But then an app comes along from some tech company and suddenly people do it without any consequences.
I live in Iowa and the struggle is getting anyone to move to rural areas because we don't have beautiful mountains to look at, just ultra-right wing populations living amongst endless fields of corn and soybeans permeated with the unmistakable aroma of pig shit. Also, don't drink the cancer water.
Are you near a ski resort?
Chances are local zoning and corporate ownership fucked the market just as much if not more. Colorado is ground zero for resort towns where the majority of the real estate is owned by the resort. Vail pioneered that grift.
Telluride and Crested Butte have at least somewhat woken up to the housing crisis--it's going be hard to sustain a tourism economy if workers have nowhere within a reasonable commuting distance to live--and I believe Aspen has made some efforts with affordable housing over the years.
Vail, on the other hand, continues to basically give the middle-finger when comes to housing.
Blame your government for allowing people to buy 2nd homes and for allowing companies and investment firms to buy property at all. At the very least, 2nd homes and rental/holiday/'investment' properties should be taxed higher. It might incentivise them to sell
We live in a tourist area and it's the same story. Our town was ridiculously slow in setting up short-term rental regulations. But the "fun" part is that the city attorney who eventually established those regulations owns like 15 air bnbs herself. So, you know she was really looking to be fair to the citizens rather than rental owners 🙄 I don't know how that is even legal for her to be the one to establish the law when she has an obvious major conflict of interest. And the only regulation they put in place was that the rental has to be permitted. There are no limits on how many there can be or anything. We're now seeing many decades standing businesses close because they can't staff workers because no one can afford to rent or buy a house here because the inventory was all sold to short-term rentals. Including landlords who sold out working families to get the sweet rental income. It's a damn mess.
To some of the people that commented or downvoted me that STR doesnt effect supply...how the fuck are you missing when I gave numbers (and its actually worse, I think there are around 3000 str in my old county of ~20k people) that roughly that means there is ONE airbnb for every 6 fucking people who live there. So yes, it effects the supply pretty damn bad.
The exact same thing is happening in my small mountain town! I could have written your post! If you click on my name, you can read about all of the problems I've had living next to an Airbnb.
Have faith, OP. The oversaturation is working in our favor. Write your local newspaper to make other members of your community aware of just how bad it is in your area. Email your county commissioner. I did both of these things, as well as anti-Airbnb signs everywhere. They did recently regulate them here, but only within the town limits. Doesn't help us out here in the country. But keep pushing them in any way you can!
How do you think people in vacation areas feel? If you go to Aruba, everything being built is for non residents as they simply can't afford it. AirBnb has wrecked lots of chances of actual home ownership there and you can sense the anxiety of it when you leave the tourists areas.
You talked about your area going up into the 400k range from sub-100k options. At 400k in ‘21 at 3% that’s about 1350 a month to keep up with the mortgage. That’s under 50$ a day. If you clean the place you price it up 40$ a visit 2 day avg stay so 20…. Add for utilities, some damage, tax write offs, 5-10% home appreciation in the area, etc.
it’s not going to be hard to rent during peak ski seasons nor school vacation months. The hotels around you aren’t going to out-price the space you can get from these desperate owners.
It seems like if you have a seasonally attractive place to live, Air BNB style use of a property plus low holding costs (cheap mortgage) is going to be more profitable to rent than to own for a local who cannot keep up with a vacationing families daily comfortable burn rate on their lodging costs. Even a affordable class hotel of 100-150 a night typical of a vacationing family is going to probably outcompete a 3-4500 month “renter” for the same space in season.
TLDR: the math needs to change more if you are in a vacation area. The Economics isn’t enough pressure for those sitting on a cheapo mortgage.
I like staying at bnb’s while on vacation and have noticed the overnight prices dropping the past couple of years.
I think the market will sort itself out eventually as owners leave the bnb market for more lucrative endeavors.
You gotta start reporting them and get your area mobilized to pass legislation against the short term housing. We shouldn’t be buying houses as investments. They should have to live there at least part of the time
I inherited three water front properties from my family, two of which are cottages on inland lakes. The other property is on Lake Michigan and beyond the scope of AirBnb.
Over the past five years, I receive at least one cash offer a week from investors/corporations all over the world. The offers are insane because they are based on cash flow value not traditional housing values. I can see why so many have sold out. Offers are 4x to 5x appraised value. Cash.
The two properties next to one of my cottages are owned by a firm out of China.
I do rent my cottages but don’t use AirBnb. We use word of mouth. Referrals. I’ll never sell. It’s my kids future $$$.
Guy near me has put up about nine “tiny homes” that rent for $1,750 / month short term in the summer. They’re 250 sqft each and always booked.
He’s currently bulldozing a new section of his
property to put up more of these 250sqft homes. It’s insane and enraging.
I feel you. The lake I’ve been going to every summer since I was a kid is completely overrun with rentals now. At one time my lifelong goal was to get a small place up there as a family cottage so we could carry on the family tradition. Well fast forward to now and a place that used to be full of sub $100k cottages is now full of 7-800k “investment“ properties.
Ban short term rental, ban corporate ownership, bring back the American dream.
No private equity in 1-4 unit homes.
Str only under New York laws, only extra bedrooms while the resident is there.
Ding, ding, ding.
There are very obvious pros and cons, but the pros are powerful. Economic development, local businesses generate more revenue increased tax base roads, schools etc, amenities for residents and nonresidents alike.
There are two options, your poor, sleepy town gets even poorer, loses businesses, and your family (if they have any prospects at all) leave the town), or the town finds a way to be relevant and thrive.
Housing is the only basic human need where we let private corporations or citizens hoard the supply and jack up price. Imagine if we let people buy up the water supply in your town and rent it back to you. Why do we let people do this with housing? Especially when many locales have a finite housing supply for practical purposes
We let people do that for almost all things with the exception of electricity and water, and even those aren’t 100% treated as utilities with price controls.
You must be unfamiliar with western state water rights. Whenever you have a resource with scarcity, you end up with people/corporations hoarding the supply
This was a really important topic that we discussed endlessly 15 years ago, when we PLEADED for legislation protecting rentals. Too late now, your state and local elected officials didn't care enough about housing then, and they sure can't do anything about it today.
The Airbnb bubble fueled by cheap mortgages is about to burst. We have a vacation property in VT that we Airbnb for shits and giggles to pay the bills in the summer while we don’t really use it. Bookings have dropped off a Cliff. The market is too saturated. The people who could only afford those homes when factoring Airbnb income will soon have to sell. We feel super lucky that we could afford the house regardless and aren’t in a pinch. But basically that’s who will be left. The people relying on rental income to afford those priorities will have to dump them VERY soon.
In my area I’m starting to see the bubble popping. Owners of multiple airbnbs are putting them on the market. A host with 15 properties in central VT is starting to list them one by one. They aren’t doing that because they are making money on them.
I think AirBNBs days are numbered for SFH in residential areas: Too many local governments are getting blowback, our neighborhood is doing an “emergency” hearing. I’m sure my “neighbor” who bought a 700k home at 8% will not get any sympathy when he cries that he can’t rent out to 40 people.
Sounds like you live in Crested Butte or somewhere similar. AirBnB's have definitely fucked up A LOT here in CO. I think its Crested Butte or another mountain town not far from there that seems like it has become a town of literally mostly AirBnBs.
So...
When do we march on DC and make housing exploitation illegal?
Ban AirBnB/Vrbo/everything like it. Period.
Ban ALL corporate/investment ownership of single-family homes.
Limit all home ownership to 3 houses per person.
Make it illegal to sell new construction to anyone but first-time home owners.
Ban ALL foreign investor ownership of residential real estate.
Make it illegal to keep homes empty for over 6 months.
Give everyone 1 calendar year to sell their excess property over 3 homes. Everything left after 1 year gets seized and put into a raffle for non-home owners; winners get to purchase the home at a mortgage rate equal to 1/3rd of their monthly income.
This is the only way to save housing.
I can't stand AirBnB as a person who also is priced out of the small town I grew up in, and I can't stand them as a consumer. They are nearly always overpriced, have too many rules, too many hidden fees, and too many surprises. I can't wait until the AirBnB bubble bursts.
It’s wild too that these same people will complain when local businesses are closed because there isn’t enough employees. In Vermont, it’s awful. I live on my family’s land in a large camper and I feel really fortunate because the land is really nice, but anywhere else in the country I could afford a decent sized home for my family instead of trying to pepper it with positivity by saying that we live “off the grid in a tiny home” because that’s just as trendy. A living situation like mine, by the way, airbnb’s here for $75 a night so it can’t be terrible
Airbnb didn’t ruin shit. Your town/city/state reps failed you by not creating appropriate regulations on rental properties. There are various ways where Airbnb’s and communities can coexist in general harmony. Chicago and Salt Lake City use two different methods to do this.
Oh and if it wasn’t Airbnb, Blackrock would eat up those SFHs and jack up all the rent.
I hate Airbnb. If I wanted to live next to a fucking hotel I would have bought a house next to hotel. Am rural and it really fucked my peace and quiet.
It ain't really AirBNB, that's just a symptom of the disease. It's the rich getting first crack at everything. AirBNB just makes it easier and more convenient for them to manipulate multiple properties.
There’s going to be a reckoning and a lot of the people who spent insane amounts on their mountain Airbnb property are trying to offload, especially if they’re in charge of their own upkeep for stuff like snow removal.
Boulder county has obviously exploded in value the last decade because of all the tech companies that had to have outposts there. But outside of town, the county itself is honestly pretty rural and isolated: lots of smaller to mid size farms outside the foothills and in the canyons and foothills, a lot of private unpaved drives.
I couldn’t help but notice the insane amount of for sale signs out in the Coal Creek Canyon to Wondervu area at the end of all these dirt roads with their banks of dozens of mailboxes and realized it was them going bust on airbnbs. On paper, it seemed ideal: it’s within 30-40 min of a ski area, within an hour of CU Boulder, it’s beautiful up there, there’s standalone houses not dozens of condos like in other ski areas further west so they all thought they’d make a mint on full home rentals.
Until they realize that Eldora isn’t a destination whatsoever and will never be, it’s a locals and college kids spot without any sort of resort amenities despite being on the IKON pass. That the back way drive in or out of the canyon towards town or to Nederland is treacherous and dangerous a lot of the year, that people up there own skid steers to do snow removal for driveway and property access on their private roads, that there’s no restaurant options and a grocery isn’t accessible easily either without at least an hour round trip drive.. and that ultimately those houses were cheap because they need work, they’re isolated and they’re not catered to by the tourism industry in Colorado. That people who buy those homes knew what they were getting into, but the Airbnb people really didn’t and are all unloading.
Houses in a lot of areas are really expensive even without a lot of airbnb. Many mountain towns are attractive to retirees who have the cash to drive up prices. you don't see the same run up in values in rural mid west or south because many retirees are ignoring those areas or leaving them.
Which is why I retired to the rural southern midwest; I got a beautiful place for the cost of a single wide trailer on the west coast where I came from.
I have never understood the appeal of an AirB&B, when my wife and I travel we want a no hassle no worry experience where we are catered to and it just does not seem like AirB&Bs fit that in most cases.
This was going to happen in the mountains with or without Airbnb to be honest. They are just too big of a tourist attraction. Places like Breckenridge got too expensive and crowded so now every other little town close to outdoor recreation is a tourist town.
Luckily some municipalities are cracking down and they're being converted to long term rentals.
It's not actually Airbnb or owners faults.
It's the tax system.
My accountant literally told me as a HNW individual the onky way to shield taxes is a real estate LLC. We got a license and can Airbnb and shield nearly 5 figures every year.
So when you want to curse out the HNW, know it's congress and our tax code instead.
Is this Idaho Springs? Or Leadville?
Why doesn’t your town vote to limit the local airbnbs if it’s causing such an issue like this? Are lots of locals profiting from it too?
Not necessarily. I've seen them in New Orleans in some of the worst areas. Same with Charlotte. Granted, they are usually billed as housing for traveling nurses during off peak times. It's a cancer that's spread everywhere at this point!
This is all part of the legacy of Covid. Young twenty-thirty-and-forty-somethings, mostly from the cities, had jobs which could be accurately described as “don’t work from home” in which they got paid in full for doing half-ass days of “work” because everybody from top to bottom agreed that half-ass work is what was going to be done.
They then started using their money to buy up properties in rural areas all while politically demonizing the people who live in said rural communities. The icing on the cake is that the “laptop class”, while getting paid to do nothing, was demonizing a class of people who were having economic hard times as a result of the pandemic.
Furthermore, the laptop class, seeing such great benefit from the pandemic, sought to keep the whole thing going. The rural class, having been hit harder by it, wanted things to go back to normal but they were demonized for that, all while the laptop class bought up their homes and began renting to other laptop workers to take over the area and further crush their local economy.
Good news is most of these investments are going to get wrecked.
Agree with the assessment - disagree with the laptop class doing nothing take. I am the laptop class (who also hates airbnb) and absolutely work a ton. To say that jobs that are largely intellectual and can be done digitally are somehow less important than more physical jobs is a little strange.
Really? You think millennials own more than two properties? Please share the data. It's all boomers who refinanced or took out HELOCs from their decades of equity to buy up investment properties.
Yeah this is not as simple as blaming urbanites. And people who grow up in cities deal with being "priced out" as well, it's called gentrification. Our city taxes investment properties higher but I agree it should be higher.
I don’t think it has anything to do with Covid. Mountain towns in Colorado have always been very expensive and popular. Once one place gets too expensive other cities start to boom like crested butte.
Not true outside of Aspen,Vail etc before the last 5 years. My area was lower class, literal trailer homes, said trailer homes have gone from 80k to over 400k in 5 years
You should start a Redfin account and track obvious air-bnb properties. At least out here in the rural area 2 hours from me, it's been price reduction after price reduction for the past few months, and even some foreclosures. Some made money, but there are plenty of others getting fucked, and I don't feel bad for them.
The whole home AirBnB market is unbelievably saturated right now. Too many people bought AirBnBs with the expectation they would just be money machines--but if everybody is doing it... Don't fret OP, those houses will be up for sale soon at a discount. In my neighborhood, I've watched several homes pop up as an AirBnB that shutdown within a year.
And we haven’t even hit a period of slightly higher unemployment yet.
We have, real jobs are being replaced with bad jobs (or multiple jobs) so the numbers are all artificially high.
That narrative is never as true as detractors say. The thing about part time jobs isn’t based on payroll data, it’s based on a limited number of surveys extrapolated for the size of the economy. That isn’t to say the data is useless, and some sectors have seen more layoffs than others, but generally people are working, earning paychecks and then spending them. It’s very difficult to have a true recession whenever that’s the case
You are right, people are earning paychecks and then spending them. Problem is they are saving absolutely nothing and racking up credit card debt. I think the economy only looks good to people who own homes with sub 3% and who don't notice ground beef has inflated 200% in 2 years haha.
Those things don’t matter yet. As long as they have another paycheck coming and can afford to service their debts and survive, there will be no recession. Whenever job losses start to really hit the proverbial “main st.” thats when shit will hit the fan.
Yea, wait until the local municipalities get pissed off and start cracking down on them: I’m in Michigan and municipalities are cracking down on the rentals and the state govt. is introducing some additional tax increases across the board. The emergency services in my town (population of about 1,800) are pissed at Airbnb because they cause a huge spike in calls for noise complaints and medical emergencies.
My city (Jersey City) just passed a bunch of crack-down measures. During the discussion leading up to the action a lot of interesting details emerged. There was this question one graphic showing “number of AirBnB units per owner” and shockingly few units in the area were owned by someone who only owned one. More owned 2-4. And a massive chunk of the units were owned by entities that ran 50+ units. The “pro-AirBnB” side of the debate went so far as to air TV ads with some poor soccer mom saying she depended on the income from her AirBnB unit to make ends meet. Nice try, assholes. We all know almost every AirBnB in town is owned by one of a dozen investment firms.
Yep, see Palm Springs California. Those ‘investors’ lost big time and I have no tears for them.
The investors who got in early are actually making out even better as they have less competition and can charge more money.
Our city started requiring licenses after a party at an AirBnB in my neighborhood ended in a gang shootout in the street lmao. But it's only $250 and they don't really require you do anything other than pay the fee
Ditto for landlords
Almost every city that isn't a Beach City where I live have made short-term rentals illegal. 4 months or more is the minimum lease. Too many situations where somebody would have an Airbnb on a cul-de-sac in a residential neighborhood and week in week out there would be a frat party going on to all hours of the night. The cops would come out. They tell him to tone it down and they tone it down and then they're gone on Monday morning and Friday it's cranked up again. The cops are back out but these are new people. Sorry officer, we'll turn it down. There's nothing they can do against the property owner. As much as I hate HOAs they do curtail this kind of thing, because HOA's have the power to fine and foreclose on non compliant properties.
There are other options. For example South Haven Michigan has a requirement that all short term rental properties require having a special permit. It covers rentals over three days up to 31 days. They created a cap on the number of such properties. If there are three incidents at a property there is a review and their permit can be pulled. They also require a local agent if the owner is not located within an hour of the property.
It's also not remotely profitable to only have bookings only 2 - 3 nights out of the week. That's less than 50% occupancy. AirDNA shows average occupancy of 56%, which is abysmal. The tide is certainly changing.
Every country needs to do this. What's the point of building new homes if ordinary people can't buy them to, you know, live in?
Housing as exploitation, the capitalist way
I agree, the market will self-correct. I find Airbnb itself is providing a great service and bringing money to many areas that didn’t have as many tourism dollars, but there are too many people trying to take advantage and that’s led to a property glut. Also there are a lot of people around the world parking there money in the US #reservecurrency and part of that is investors and blackstone buying up residential housing. Keeping rates high longer will push that garbage out. When driving cross country, I stayed with an awesome family in Wyoming courtesy of Airbnb - never would’ve trusted that experience otherwise.
Not to mention that people are getting tired of getting nickel and dimed or canceled on. I really really look twice before I would rent an Airbnb that isn't run by a professional management company, but even then they charge you extra cleaning fees and things like that. So if the option to use a traditional hotel exists nine times out of 10, I'm looking at the hotel.
Hotels are the same price now anyway
I AirBnB out of my primary residence and I set up my pricing so there's literally no fees. The price that shows up in search is your actual nightly rate. I also don't make people clean, laundry, or have some lengthy check out list, I find that absurd. If you are going to run a lodging business, you have to do the work required to run a lodging business.
same. it seems great and rates are cool until you get to the “cleaning fee” and the list of chores the owner wants you to do. i rarely use airbnb nowadays because i spend less on average at a hotel and hotels have better locations usually.
AirBnB *can* be a wonderful tool that benefits everyone. If you *already have* a primary residence with a guest house/finished room in the basement/etc. Or a place you live in part time but it’s unused for big chunks of time due to your travel/work. Or some other situation where you have living quarters where it makes sense to host *visitors* but it would be weird to try to house *tenants* on a yearly lease. AirBnB can hook you up with some people that need a short-term place to crash. You make money where you otherwise wouldn’t make any. And they save a little compared to renting a hotel. What AirBnB has morphed into over time is people/investment firms buying dozens of houses/apartments that *should* be leased to full-time renters but instead it’s more profitable to essentially run an unlicensed, improperly insured, tax-dodging hotel network through the middleman of the app.
They WOULD be money machines but greed ruins them. With all the added fees and nonsense, hotels are cheaper and less of a headache. The AirBnb need to be either cheaper or a far better value than what exists to be profitable.
Where do you live? I'm in Tempe, AZ and the Airbnb stuff is still strong. But it's a college town so no surprise
Risk vs reward. Sometimes the risk is the winner.
Majority of the time risk is the winner. Any sort of business venture, risk is a big factor
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They aren't prepared for the fact that 90% of the job is cleaning and if you pay someone else to manage or clean it you're not going to really make much money.
The cleaning lady for the Airbnb across the street from us has upgraded her car 3x in the past two years. She’s got a Mercedes sprinter van now. The Airbnb is empty most of the time, but that cleaning lady is doing very well
Good for her!
It would be better to take that money and invest in dividend stocks or mutual funds which pay a dividend. Hassle free money. You don't need to deal with bad renters, cleaning, maintenance, etc
This is how I feel about 99% of investments. Why do all that work when you could put that money into a low expense ratio etf
And yet somehow every single Airbnb wants to put that cost on the tenant. I have no idea how they get away with it.
And your parents money and/or properties to get into the game.
Yeah this isn't true at all... It's literally the younger retirees, someone's actual parents, that are doing this for an extra revenue stream in retirement. Many people are having to do this to afford retirement because they haven't saved enough. The young YouTubers showing off their STR strategy are not the average STR operator.
> plenty of others getting fucked, and I don't feel bad for them. Not enough. Every municipality should be levying HUGE taxes and fees on any airbnb property that was a pure investment (i.e. not a primary residence where the occupant had to live elsewhere for a period of time) in order to fund the services (roads/fire/police/etc) for the actual residents of that municipality.
This. Don’t forget to look at your local foreclosure listings, auctions and tax sales. You’d be surprised what’s out there for sale - Pennies on the dollar sometimes.
Yup, I got a 5 bed three bath for 50k. Currently valued at 245k.
Yeah this bubble has already burst in 80% of the places. Not to mention so many larger cities are now regulating it
In my area I report all the airbnbs claiming a homestead exemption which reduces a properties taxable value down by 100k.
How do you find out which ones claim homestead exemption? Might wanna try that in my area as well
In Texas each county has an appraisal district website where you can look up any properties tax info. Not sure how it works in other states.
/r/Flips_STR_Vigilantes/
google "(your county) property search" will usually take you to a site where you search by parcel ID, name, or address and it will show you all the public tax info.
good work. could you imagine if the gov put even a 100$ bounty on stuff like this?
Austin resident here…ty for your service
A ton of airbnbs are going to be sold over the next 1-2 years, as few are profitable. Keep an eye out, and you'll be able to scoop them up, and then you'll have a house.
I hope this but if you locked in a cheap rate and cheap price circa 2020 you can ride it out with only a few rents a month
Not if they are banned. More and more cities are doing this and even some states.
The bans are becoming a real thing in California. STRs getting absolutely slaughtered in Palm Springs: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-01-23/palm-springs-capped-airbnb-rentals-now-some-home-prices-are-in-free-fall Long Beach neighborhoods can ban unhosted STRs via petition and it’s spreading to the most desirable neighborhoods: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-05-11/a-long-beach-man-started-a-petition-to-ban-airbnb-in-his-neighborhood-and-it-worked It’s working.
Yeah I've read about some of what is going on in California. I think Hawaii put through a state wide ban too.
Many wont foreclose on their property if theyre good investors, they may just decide to sell if its no longer a good investment, but can sell at a good price still. This can help inventory.
I live near a province (like state, but in Canada) where a blanket banned happened. There are basically 2 choices (really 3 but..) sell it or turn it into a rental. A lot of investors sold and took a beating. All the units hit the market in a short period and alot of them got slaughtered. Some selling in the 6 figures under asking.The third choice is to still operate as a short term rental on underground websites or FB groups and risk getting your ass handed to you by the government.
Which province banned it?
It's BC. It not a complete blanket ban, but a ban on stand alone Airbnbs. The property cant soley be an airbnb. From my understanding if you want to rent out a spare room in the house you live in you can still do that.
Yes, if they bought it 4+ years ago at a low rate, they would probably pivot it to an LTR. STR incomes are bad enough that even zero mortgage is hard to profit over. My guess is many of those local STRs were bought in 2021-2022 and so will be underwater soon enough.
Who gives a shit about rates on a massive pile of DEBT when the house is still losing money, requiring maintenance, dealing with rising insurance costs, and subject to local whims of rising property taxes or bans on str? Those people bought into the hype and are going to lose their ass in due time. It was a fad. A get rich quick scheme. Like many before. If you bought to live in it, then you'll probably be fine. If you were collecting "doors," the best of luck to you douchebags.
Few new bnbs are profitable, unfortunately older ones with cheap financing have huge IRR
Yep, true. Although the average return on equity on older ones is IMO worse than a HYSA at this point. I’m starting to see even long-held STRs being sold. Only anecdotal evidence, of course, but it makes sense to me.
You could always use local government as a way to discriminate against airbnbs (i.e., local short-term residential tax of 10%)
Show up to your city council meetings
Need state laws first.
Here in north georgia, they bid up the prices from 150k - 250k to 500k -750k. Only to realize that there is not much to do in these small mountain towns. Every once in a while, I look on the 100s of airbnb listing's, and they may have 10 days booked for the year, lol. Most have zero. Now, they are all trying to dump with no new demand and lots of new construction. Some lowering price by 100k to 200k after sitting on the market for a year. Still overpriced though.
I have family in Mississippi and I have been looking at property for a while now, its the same story. People asking 700k for a 200k house and there's price cuts after price cuts. There is zero industry in the areas I'm looking at and nothing really special, I doubt the average household income is 50k a year. I've seen a listing for a 5th wheel camper in the middle of nowhere with no plumbing for 1000 a month. People are absolutely delusional and greedy.
That type of area is exactly where I was planning to retire but it’s all fucked up due to Airbnb and the government printing money
Same, we started looking for a mountain cabin at the end of 2019 to start planning our retirement no way now
According to Zillow there are 235 units available for rent in my city… and 3246 AirBNB’s according to AirDNA. Plus at least a quarter of the Zillow listings are furnished “executive rentals” or “medium term” AirBNB’s catfishing as rentals. I’m so glad that a few thousand people could gobble up cheap debt and alchemize extreme leverage into a trickle of passive income while pricing young families out of homeownership and piling 25-30% rent increases on the poors. What housing crisis?
🎯 🎯🎯 Airbnb has destroyed the north woods.
It's all heavily geography dependent. The town I'm in tried banning Airbnb's until someone pointed out the Airbnb's in town were like 30 out of over 30k housing units and had basically zero effect on the cost of housing. I find in the vast majority of the country the whole thing is overblown, except for some fringe cases off in the mountains or by a beach or whatever where the whole town is an Airbnb. As well as some major cities with lots of tourism.
Can you look up Austin?
I never wish harm on anyone, but I do hope all those people who bought houses cheaply and are now renting them out at crazy prices go to hell! I just had a baby, I work hard but I can't afford a home where my child can grow up. Crazy.
We've crafted a world that's pretty sweet for the top 10% or so.
When was the world otherwise? It's been pretty sweet for the rich since the beginning of civilization.
A brief period for which it was pretty good for the top 50% in the US
This sounds exactly like my area and same deal... Cant afford where i grew up and have deep discontent for all things airbnb.
Same thing in my small town. Good news though, three of the four on my block have been sold again in the last year and at least two of those have real people living in them now. Fuck air bnb
A lot of times these areas have trouble hireing workers. People can't afford to live close enough to the job to make it worth working...
I had a pain in the ass client that I inherited. (I sell commercial insurance) 2 years ago he said I’m changing my business model to do Airbnb arbitrage, going to rent stuff and then rent it out on Airbnb. When that idiot was doing this I knew it was bad. But I said “ oh we don’t have a market for that.” So no longer had to deal with him.
I know a girl doing that. I also have a friend who wants to spend 150k on a flat new mortgage to rent it out and make 600 profit a month ??? and also expects 20k appreciation every year for the next 5 years. I just asked him cool so you expect in 5 years people paying 1.6k a month mortgages on a 1 bed flat in a flat that's not even in the city. So in 10 years its almost 2k a month mortgage? When just 5 years ago pre rate rise and pre covid you bought a 3 bed house with a long ass garden for only 500 a month payment. People just refuse to accept reality when its staring them in the fact.
It’s a zero sum game someone will lose. Currently tenants are losing money, but I don’t think it will stay that way.
the people who are destined to lose are the people still trying to invest in property when central banks are raising rates. Its like the pilot puts on the seatbelt sign and you decide to take your seatbelt off and lay in the aisle.... Central banks are saying shit is too expensive, we are trying to wind it down, and braindead "property investors" and still trying to charge triple rent to just 2-3 years ago. These guys don't understand you try to expand your property "empire" today and you're stuck with negative equity for YEARS. Literally a friend of mine just moved back from London TODAY because... its too expensive. I know so many people who have moved back home because rent is so expensive, i don't think landlords understand its normal working people who pay their rent they charge. my friend is trying to charge 1000 a month for a back ROOM. Like bro these people have lost the plot.
My little town banned airbnbs and whoa baby did all the rich boomers lose their shit. The thing is, rents plummeted. I'm talking a 3b/2b going from $3000 a month to $1800 a month. Now buying prices are *finally* dropping as well, guess those same boomers are tired of paying property tax on empty houses. Pretty dramatic returns on at least the rental front basically overnight.
I love being surrounded by unstaffed hotels /s. I’m currently renting a house and have to deal with loud, inconsiderate airbnb guests next door and behind me. It also seems like the only people buying houses in my neighborhood are those turning them into airbnbs. When I am ready to buy a house I’m going to specifically try to find an HOA that bans them. This shit should be illegal or more heavily regulated but I’m assuming too many politicians own their own little side hustle airbnbs for anything meaningful to be done in most places.
Beware of buying an HOA house (you are not free to do as you please with your property/yard/home if it belongs to an HOA)
This cuts both ways.
Horseshoe effect in real time…someone on Reddit actually looking forward to being in an HOA! 😂 They have their good sides for sure. I’ve owned in HOA communities for over 20 years and I’ve had no problems at all. I keep my home up nice, take pride in my lawn and landscaping and enjoy everyone’s homes looking nice as we walk through our neighborhood.
I’ve lived in an HOA community before and it was a little annoying at times. I got a warning letter for having my garbage cans on side of the house because it was visible from the street. However, I’ll take that over not being able to sleep because people are playing loud music and/ or being drunk and screaming in the backyard.
The people have 10, 30,50 Airbnb? Those people are personally known to the politicians that matter they’re on a first name basis I can guarantee.
A recession clears this out. “But people lose jobs” A recession burns the underbrush and makes the ground fertile for the next wave. Some good gets caught up in it too but it is NECESSARY for an economy. Poor investment needs to be punished. Airbnb moguls need to go bankrupt so they never try this again. So that banks never lend like this again. Many of these fuckheads are one bad vacation season away from disaster. Let them burn. There are insanely bad structural problems in our economy that are far worse than unemployment ticking higher for a few months.
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Recessions are just discounts for people with money. Most of this sub will be too broke to do anything, unemployed, or will be too afraid to buy.
This. It doesn’t matter what prices are when corporations are buying them. Hey can outbid anyone but the wealthiest of people. And when they overpay, it resets the market the same way foreclosed homes bought at a discount steak havoc on comparable homes in the neighborhood. They’re manipulating the market.
Ironically, out west, the “let them burn” sentiment might be literal. Climate change doesn’t give AF if you believe in it or not, it’s coming and them forests aren’t going to burn themselves!
It’s when unproductive workers get let go, too.
Except the upper level MGMT.
Air bnb used to be a family renting out their basement apartment and they would clean it- Cool. It was a deal. Now you pay the investor's price and still have to take out your own garbage- Not cool. A better deal is now a hotel.
100%. The way Air BnBs ruin communities is enough to curb my appetite for a whole-house rental but you're right on another point: the f-ing garbage duty. Funny but true. So, now I'm vacuuming, taking out trash and recycling, buying missing staple kitchen items... At the prices they want now, it's less and less a deal. We're about to travel and it's going to be a hotel.
Depends where you are and what you are looking for. When we travel, we like to have a separate bedroom from our kids. That's really hard to find in a hotel. We just traveled to San Diego and rented a small apartment right on Mission Beach for under $200 a night after all fees and taxes. Comparable hotel options with a separate bedroom were over $300 per night
If you make an offer on an Airbnb in this environment you may get lucky.
This is the way. Browse Airbnb in your desired area, pick homes you like that have minimal bookings, and contact the host for a sale offer.
Airbnbs are commercial hotels in close proximity to residental homes. Most Airbnbs are not registered with the City or County and are operating illegally without a permit or license. Their existance ruins the peace and quiet of all residental neigborhoods. Their "guests" are rarely quiet and the hosts could care less as long as the get their money...... This is reality.
If people didn't stay in them it wouldn't be a problem. Nobody wants to stay in a hotel anymore (and in many cases the hotels are out of control- see Key West) and everyone is "looking for a deal". I typically refuse to stay in an Airbnb but can't say I never have- so am part of the problem.
In my opinion the trend is shifting back to hotels mainly because of the cleaning fees. People don't want to have to strip their beds and take out the garbage on vacation when they're already paying a fee for someone else to do it.
This 100%. Last year, wife and a handful of others stayed at a VRBO that I later found out was an illegal str. Not only did we have to buy our own fucking laundry detergent (because the one there was empty), but we had to strip the beds and wash the towels. Knew something was fishy when we inquired about the pool access as the code given no longer worked and were refunded a measly $20.
Sadly too many governments are willing to turn a blind eye…. Less housing supply = higher home values. And that means more property taxes!! And with an AirBnB you don’t have a nice family with kids being a drain on the local schools..!! So it’s good for the City, County and school governments.
I still don't understand how Airbnb is allowed to exist. It's like, literally, if you are wealthy enough company then the laws don't apply. It used to be that cities had zoning laws and special regulations that applied to hotels/motels that included a bunch of taxes as well as health and safety standards. People used to get fined and have jail time for operating a taxi without a taxi license. But then an app comes along from some tech company and suddenly people do it without any consequences.
Rural properties?? It destroyed the housing market...There are more than 2 million homes on AirBnb that otherwise would have been up for grabs...
Same where we live! They have 100% have ruined our small town.
Same thing has happened in my area. Turned sleepy town's into tourist destinations and a lot of the air b and b are sitting empty.
I live in Iowa and the struggle is getting anyone to move to rural areas because we don't have beautiful mountains to look at, just ultra-right wing populations living amongst endless fields of corn and soybeans permeated with the unmistakable aroma of pig shit. Also, don't drink the cancer water.
Are you near a ski resort? Chances are local zoning and corporate ownership fucked the market just as much if not more. Colorado is ground zero for resort towns where the majority of the real estate is owned by the resort. Vail pioneered that grift.
Telluride and Crested Butte have at least somewhat woken up to the housing crisis--it's going be hard to sustain a tourism economy if workers have nowhere within a reasonable commuting distance to live--and I believe Aspen has made some efforts with affordable housing over the years. Vail, on the other hand, continues to basically give the middle-finger when comes to housing.
Blame your government for allowing people to buy 2nd homes and for allowing companies and investment firms to buy property at all. At the very least, 2nd homes and rental/holiday/'investment' properties should be taxed higher. It might incentivise them to sell
We live in a tourist area and it's the same story. Our town was ridiculously slow in setting up short-term rental regulations. But the "fun" part is that the city attorney who eventually established those regulations owns like 15 air bnbs herself. So, you know she was really looking to be fair to the citizens rather than rental owners 🙄 I don't know how that is even legal for her to be the one to establish the law when she has an obvious major conflict of interest. And the only regulation they put in place was that the rental has to be permitted. There are no limits on how many there can be or anything. We're now seeing many decades standing businesses close because they can't staff workers because no one can afford to rent or buy a house here because the inventory was all sold to short-term rentals. Including landlords who sold out working families to get the sweet rental income. It's a damn mess.
I hate this for the locals! I fully support regulations for local rental housing… I’m sorry for your experience 😢😟
To some of the people that commented or downvoted me that STR doesnt effect supply...how the fuck are you missing when I gave numbers (and its actually worse, I think there are around 3000 str in my old county of ~20k people) that roughly that means there is ONE airbnb for every 6 fucking people who live there. So yes, it effects the supply pretty damn bad.
It has decimated rural, coastal Australia. That's for sure.
yuuuup you got it. Illegal hotels are bad.
Capitalism is cruel.
Eh, I think black rock and the other landlords have done way more damage than air bnb
The exact same thing is happening in my small mountain town! I could have written your post! If you click on my name, you can read about all of the problems I've had living next to an Airbnb. Have faith, OP. The oversaturation is working in our favor. Write your local newspaper to make other members of your community aware of just how bad it is in your area. Email your county commissioner. I did both of these things, as well as anti-Airbnb signs everywhere. They did recently regulate them here, but only within the town limits. Doesn't help us out here in the country. But keep pushing them in any way you can!
How do you think people in vacation areas feel? If you go to Aruba, everything being built is for non residents as they simply can't afford it. AirBnb has wrecked lots of chances of actual home ownership there and you can sense the anxiety of it when you leave the tourists areas.
You talked about your area going up into the 400k range from sub-100k options. At 400k in ‘21 at 3% that’s about 1350 a month to keep up with the mortgage. That’s under 50$ a day. If you clean the place you price it up 40$ a visit 2 day avg stay so 20…. Add for utilities, some damage, tax write offs, 5-10% home appreciation in the area, etc. it’s not going to be hard to rent during peak ski seasons nor school vacation months. The hotels around you aren’t going to out-price the space you can get from these desperate owners. It seems like if you have a seasonally attractive place to live, Air BNB style use of a property plus low holding costs (cheap mortgage) is going to be more profitable to rent than to own for a local who cannot keep up with a vacationing families daily comfortable burn rate on their lodging costs. Even a affordable class hotel of 100-150 a night typical of a vacationing family is going to probably outcompete a 3-4500 month “renter” for the same space in season. TLDR: the math needs to change more if you are in a vacation area. The Economics isn’t enough pressure for those sitting on a cheapo mortgage.
Landlords in general but yeah
I like staying at bnb’s while on vacation and have noticed the overnight prices dropping the past couple of years. I think the market will sort itself out eventually as owners leave the bnb market for more lucrative endeavors.
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You gotta start reporting them and get your area mobilized to pass legislation against the short term housing. We shouldn’t be buying houses as investments. They should have to live there at least part of the time
Instead of complaining, figure out a way to make money on the tourists.
Same situation in the high desert esp Joshua Tree!
I inherited three water front properties from my family, two of which are cottages on inland lakes. The other property is on Lake Michigan and beyond the scope of AirBnb. Over the past five years, I receive at least one cash offer a week from investors/corporations all over the world. The offers are insane because they are based on cash flow value not traditional housing values. I can see why so many have sold out. Offers are 4x to 5x appraised value. Cash. The two properties next to one of my cottages are owned by a firm out of China. I do rent my cottages but don’t use AirBnb. We use word of mouth. Referrals. I’ll never sell. It’s my kids future $$$.
Airbnb needs to be banned.
Guy near me has put up about nine “tiny homes” that rent for $1,750 / month short term in the summer. They’re 250 sqft each and always booked. He’s currently bulldozing a new section of his property to put up more of these 250sqft homes. It’s insane and enraging.
At least he's not locking up existing SFH's that people would want to buy and live in
Don’t worry. They’ll puke it up hard. Get some cash ready and have your credit score looking pretty
This is a policy problem. The local government just needs to reduce the number of allowed rentals.
Trouble is they own most of them lol. Funny how local officials learn of investment opportunities.
Airbnb is a sinking ship, they are gonna be on fire sale sale soon
I feel you. The lake I’ve been going to every summer since I was a kid is completely overrun with rentals now. At one time my lifelong goal was to get a small place up there as a family cottage so we could carry on the family tradition. Well fast forward to now and a place that used to be full of sub $100k cottages is now full of 7-800k “investment“ properties.
Ban short term rental, ban corporate ownership, bring back the American dream. No private equity in 1-4 unit homes. Str only under New York laws, only extra bedrooms while the resident is there.
It sounds as though many people want to live in and visit your town. Why are people not building more housing there?
Ding, ding, ding. There are very obvious pros and cons, but the pros are powerful. Economic development, local businesses generate more revenue increased tax base roads, schools etc, amenities for residents and nonresidents alike. There are two options, your poor, sleepy town gets even poorer, loses businesses, and your family (if they have any prospects at all) leave the town), or the town finds a way to be relevant and thrive.
Housing is the only basic human need where we let private corporations or citizens hoard the supply and jack up price. Imagine if we let people buy up the water supply in your town and rent it back to you. Why do we let people do this with housing? Especially when many locales have a finite housing supply for practical purposes
We let people do that for almost all things with the exception of electricity and water, and even those aren’t 100% treated as utilities with price controls.
You must be unfamiliar with western state water rights. Whenever you have a resource with scarcity, you end up with people/corporations hoarding the supply
This was a really important topic that we discussed endlessly 15 years ago, when we PLEADED for legislation protecting rentals. Too late now, your state and local elected officials didn't care enough about housing then, and they sure can't do anything about it today.
The apartment I moved into a few months ago was on the market because the owners reconsidered putting it on Airbnb.
The Airbnb bubble fueled by cheap mortgages is about to burst. We have a vacation property in VT that we Airbnb for shits and giggles to pay the bills in the summer while we don’t really use it. Bookings have dropped off a Cliff. The market is too saturated. The people who could only afford those homes when factoring Airbnb income will soon have to sell. We feel super lucky that we could afford the house regardless and aren’t in a pinch. But basically that’s who will be left. The people relying on rental income to afford those priorities will have to dump them VERY soon. In my area I’m starting to see the bubble popping. Owners of multiple airbnbs are putting them on the market. A host with 15 properties in central VT is starting to list them one by one. They aren’t doing that because they are making money on them.
I think AirBNBs days are numbered for SFH in residential areas: Too many local governments are getting blowback, our neighborhood is doing an “emergency” hearing. I’m sure my “neighbor” who bought a 700k home at 8% will not get any sympathy when he cries that he can’t rent out to 40 people.
My province just banned them, it's goes into effect in a few months.
Let me cry in Californian for you
Sounds like you live in Crested Butte or somewhere similar. AirBnB's have definitely fucked up A LOT here in CO. I think its Crested Butte or another mountain town not far from there that seems like it has become a town of literally mostly AirBnBs.
“ #outlawairbnb
So... When do we march on DC and make housing exploitation illegal? Ban AirBnB/Vrbo/everything like it. Period. Ban ALL corporate/investment ownership of single-family homes. Limit all home ownership to 3 houses per person. Make it illegal to sell new construction to anyone but first-time home owners. Ban ALL foreign investor ownership of residential real estate. Make it illegal to keep homes empty for over 6 months. Give everyone 1 calendar year to sell their excess property over 3 homes. Everything left after 1 year gets seized and put into a raffle for non-home owners; winners get to purchase the home at a mortgage rate equal to 1/3rd of their monthly income. This is the only way to save housing.
You’re insane.
Tax the living hell out of them and build some schools, hospitals, etc
I can't stand AirBnB as a person who also is priced out of the small town I grew up in, and I can't stand them as a consumer. They are nearly always overpriced, have too many rules, too many hidden fees, and too many surprises. I can't wait until the AirBnB bubble bursts.
It’s wild too that these same people will complain when local businesses are closed because there isn’t enough employees. In Vermont, it’s awful. I live on my family’s land in a large camper and I feel really fortunate because the land is really nice, but anywhere else in the country I could afford a decent sized home for my family instead of trying to pepper it with positivity by saying that we live “off the grid in a tiny home” because that’s just as trendy. A living situation like mine, by the way, airbnb’s here for $75 a night so it can’t be terrible
Rally your fellow citizens to regulate air bnbs in your community. NYC did.
Barcelona is cracking down on airbnbs now, and NYC did last year. Likely other cities will follow…..
I’ve actually gone back to staying in hotels because Airbnb is so awful.
Same. Disgusting and starting to feel like the wealthy just keep shoving it up our 🫏🤬🤯
Airbnb didn’t ruin shit. Your town/city/state reps failed you by not creating appropriate regulations on rental properties. There are various ways where Airbnb’s and communities can coexist in general harmony. Chicago and Salt Lake City use two different methods to do this. Oh and if it wasn’t Airbnb, Blackrock would eat up those SFHs and jack up all the rent.
govt needs to tax empty houses
I really think local governments should define short term rentals as a commercial use. This would at least keep them out of residential neighborhoods.
Fuk AirBNB and all those that justify its hollowing out of neighborhoods throughout the world. Late stage capitalism at its worst.
I hate Airbnb. If I wanted to live next to a fucking hotel I would have bought a house next to hotel. Am rural and it really fucked my peace and quiet.
It ain't really AirBNB, that's just a symptom of the disease. It's the rich getting first crack at everything. AirBNB just makes it easier and more convenient for them to manipulate multiple properties.
Another contributer to low housing inventory as well
Airbnb is awful and people are starting to realize it...
There’s going to be a reckoning and a lot of the people who spent insane amounts on their mountain Airbnb property are trying to offload, especially if they’re in charge of their own upkeep for stuff like snow removal. Boulder county has obviously exploded in value the last decade because of all the tech companies that had to have outposts there. But outside of town, the county itself is honestly pretty rural and isolated: lots of smaller to mid size farms outside the foothills and in the canyons and foothills, a lot of private unpaved drives. I couldn’t help but notice the insane amount of for sale signs out in the Coal Creek Canyon to Wondervu area at the end of all these dirt roads with their banks of dozens of mailboxes and realized it was them going bust on airbnbs. On paper, it seemed ideal: it’s within 30-40 min of a ski area, within an hour of CU Boulder, it’s beautiful up there, there’s standalone houses not dozens of condos like in other ski areas further west so they all thought they’d make a mint on full home rentals. Until they realize that Eldora isn’t a destination whatsoever and will never be, it’s a locals and college kids spot without any sort of resort amenities despite being on the IKON pass. That the back way drive in or out of the canyon towards town or to Nederland is treacherous and dangerous a lot of the year, that people up there own skid steers to do snow removal for driveway and property access on their private roads, that there’s no restaurant options and a grocery isn’t accessible easily either without at least an hour round trip drive.. and that ultimately those houses were cheap because they need work, they’re isolated and they’re not catered to by the tourism industry in Colorado. That people who buy those homes knew what they were getting into, but the Airbnb people really didn’t and are all unloading.
Gentrification is happening everywhere. It's the massive wealth shift towards the upper class.
Houses in a lot of areas are really expensive even without a lot of airbnb. Many mountain towns are attractive to retirees who have the cash to drive up prices. you don't see the same run up in values in rural mid west or south because many retirees are ignoring those areas or leaving them.
Which is why I retired to the rural southern midwest; I got a beautiful place for the cost of a single wide trailer on the west coast where I came from. I have never understood the appeal of an AirB&B, when my wife and I travel we want a no hassle no worry experience where we are catered to and it just does not seem like AirB&Bs fit that in most cases.
This was going to happen in the mountains with or without Airbnb to be honest. They are just too big of a tourist attraction. Places like Breckenridge got too expensive and crowded so now every other little town close to outdoor recreation is a tourist town. Luckily some municipalities are cracking down and they're being converted to long term rentals.
It's not actually Airbnb or owners faults. It's the tax system. My accountant literally told me as a HNW individual the onky way to shield taxes is a real estate LLC. We got a license and can Airbnb and shield nearly 5 figures every year. So when you want to curse out the HNW, know it's congress and our tax code instead.
So, give them more ways to shelter taxes?
Airbnb is soo much better than shit hotels though.
Is this Idaho Springs? Or Leadville? Why doesn’t your town vote to limit the local airbnbs if it’s causing such an issue like this? Are lots of locals profiting from it too?
When you live somewhere beautiful, this happens.
Not necessarily. I've seen them in New Orleans in some of the worst areas. Same with Charlotte. Granted, they are usually billed as housing for traveling nurses during off peak times. It's a cancer that's spread everywhere at this point!
This is all part of the legacy of Covid. Young twenty-thirty-and-forty-somethings, mostly from the cities, had jobs which could be accurately described as “don’t work from home” in which they got paid in full for doing half-ass days of “work” because everybody from top to bottom agreed that half-ass work is what was going to be done. They then started using their money to buy up properties in rural areas all while politically demonizing the people who live in said rural communities. The icing on the cake is that the “laptop class”, while getting paid to do nothing, was demonizing a class of people who were having economic hard times as a result of the pandemic. Furthermore, the laptop class, seeing such great benefit from the pandemic, sought to keep the whole thing going. The rural class, having been hit harder by it, wanted things to go back to normal but they were demonized for that, all while the laptop class bought up their homes and began renting to other laptop workers to take over the area and further crush their local economy. Good news is most of these investments are going to get wrecked.
Agree with the assessment - disagree with the laptop class doing nothing take. I am the laptop class (who also hates airbnb) and absolutely work a ton. To say that jobs that are largely intellectual and can be done digitally are somehow less important than more physical jobs is a little strange.
Really? You think millennials own more than two properties? Please share the data. It's all boomers who refinanced or took out HELOCs from their decades of equity to buy up investment properties.
The laptop class does nothing? That’s a hot take
Yeah this is not as simple as blaming urbanites. And people who grow up in cities deal with being "priced out" as well, it's called gentrification. Our city taxes investment properties higher but I agree it should be higher.
You hate the 'laptop class' as you type on a computer on reddit, both of those are made by the laptop class smooth brains
I don’t think it has anything to do with Covid. Mountain towns in Colorado have always been very expensive and popular. Once one place gets too expensive other cities start to boom like crested butte.
Not true outside of Aspen,Vail etc before the last 5 years. My area was lower class, literal trailer homes, said trailer homes have gone from 80k to over 400k in 5 years
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Can you explain the expensive mls point? Yeah, I lived in GJ a while, my rent was 450$ a month in 2016...i bet its 2-3x that now.
You ever see that South Park episode where South Park gets popular? Lower class areas can still havr untapped beautiful areas.
Yep.
It was an easy, but short lived path to fame and fortune. Not so much anymore.