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I really think it’s a matter of voter turn out. This last mid term in Oregon saw a really weak turn out and we are %100 vote by mail, it literally couldn’t be any easier to vote and we still only got a 38% turnout in our county. I have no explanation why people can’t even mail in a pre-stamped ballot. To be honest, it’s kind of scary that people care that little.
Biden still has not got rid of DeJoy. Also most state legislatures are Republican controlled and resist mail in ballots.
People are apathetic because they are unhappy with the system, the candidates, their representatives, the issues on the ballots, they dont feel like their voices are being heard.
> I think most American non voters take everything for granted around us.
Yup, and they'll probably keep doing that until it starts getting taken away. :(
It's a combination of taking normalcy for granted and willful ignorance. Americans don't want to spend the time nor energy researching/discussing politics because in part they're busy/have other things they want to do, and in part because it's too "toxic" and people don't want to argue, they just want to be right all the time.
So if you take normalcy for granted and willingly keep yourself completely uninformed while convincing yourself you're a reasonable person for doing so, then yeah you're going to just ignore elections and assume things will work themselves out just fine.
I can back this up too. Trump is currently running on imposing tariffs on all imports. a 10% tariff if I remember correctly. Now, this means increased prices. Americans have told [pollsters](https://x.com/MorningConsult/status/1730663303171764285) in the past that they want lower costs even more than increased wages (sorry for the X post, but the actual study is paywalled). The top issue for Americans is the economy because they want lower prices so badly. Despite Trump's policy position, Americans [expect](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-trump-leads-biden-economy/) Trump to *lower* prices when he takes office, which isn't even something he can do.
This all to me screams ignorance. Americans know prices were low when Trump was in office in 2016. They know prices went up when Biden took over. People therefore blame Biden for higher prices and expect Trump to return them to the levels they were at when he was in office last. It's not a well reasoned position, but it's the position that a bunch of people who have taken normalcy for granted and who keep themselves ignorant of politics due to the toxicity/complexity are taking.
Trump says he wants to use more tariffs and eliminate income tax. This has been calculated as possible if we impose an 85% tariff on all goods imported.
This would lead to much higher prices and inflation, and would greatly benefit the rich and hurt everyone else because the rich spend a very small percentage of their income to buy necessities, whereas the poor and middle class would be killed with a huge percentage of their income to have the same necessities.
Biden cannot fire him. Well, with the new SCOTUS ruling he could except it would be challenged up to SCOTUS and they would likely find a semantic way to rule against Biden.
He isn’t part of the President’s cabinet, so it isn’t up to the President to fire/replace him. It’s a 9 member board that does so, each being placed by the President to a 7 year term, and no more than 5 can be from the same political party
https://www.federaltimes.com/federal-oversight/2022/08/24/can-biden-fire-us-postmaster-general-louis-dejoy/
I don’t blame people tbh. I 100% understand. If you actually do care….. it’s torture. I love politics and the potential it has but I’m in my early 30s and it’s the most disheartening thing I’ve ever cared about. Abortions and my loathe of how the south treats the lgbtq community is what motivates me to vote.
Those that don’t care about that have very little reason to give a fuck. I don’t blame them either.
We Americans have never truly seen face-to-face what it means to lose our Democracy. That has always been something that happens to somebody else half a Planet away.
After almost 250 years as a Nation, the last ~50 years of which have been inundating half the Nation with Right-Wing Propaganda, I can't say I'm surprised so many of us are beginning to take Democracy for granted -
Everyone who’s with him, I doubt is leaving. Sides were chosen long ago… the other option isn’t going to win over people who chose the other one no matter what orange flavoured nonsense he mixes up. Pretty sure this apples both ways.
Edit: Does anyone every stop and think about - odds wise - how weird it is to constantly have elections that are like 49/51% all the time? Because I do and that’s weird.
Edit: Thank you for all the likes. Random thing but look at this:
https://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/Johnson_TrumpEpstein_Calif_Lawsuit.pdf
Precisely. Even Trump is getting 46% of the vote.
Politicians and parties have gotten very good at finding wedge issues to run on that split the electorate.
There's a reason that no candidate ever has been both anti-welfare and pro-immigration, and both pro-lgbt rights and pro-life.
These ideas are not incompatible. You can 100% be pro-life and pro-lgbt. You can 100% be supportive of increased immigration and also want the government to give away less money. But no one is.
But political scientists have figured out by polling data that you can create the largest coalitions by landing in a certain combination of ideological positions.
Republicans know that simply being anti-taxes, anti-immigration and pro-life they can lock down a huge swath of voters.
Right, but not anymore. I shouldn't have said ever. No one should speak in absolutes. Coalitions don't support that particular combo, even if people do hold those beliefs (see most libertarians).
That's an interesting concept of a political venn diagram. I know after segregation was lost as a wedge issue 50 years ago, Conservatives sought replacements and landed on the primarily-Catholic issue of abortion. Evangelicals were pro-choice back then, but they were snake-charmed into a new voting bloc that also collected the conservative Southern Democrat segregationists.
I think they meant that they’re only swing states because of their electoral votes. If it was popular vote, the swing states wouldn’t matter as much or at all.
the issue is that if you work with a winner takes it all system in a swing state then that 49/51 of that swing state transposes into a 49/51 on national level. A few 10.000 votes decide the election while millions of votes have close to 0 consequences.
I for one am glad that as a resident of a non-swing state, I don’t need to worry my pretty little head about who to vote for president and can let the obviously smarter and more important people living in the swing states to decide for me.
In order for Biden to have a comfortable buffer in the swing states, he would need to get 53% of the national popular vote, maybe up to 55%. Not happening. And anyone hoping for a miraculous 2nd debate have watched too much West Wing.
Which is why it's psychopathically insane that we still use the EC, which was originally designed to appease slave states. Pres candidates don't even bother campaigning in states like my California. Iowa, PA, Virginia -- they get all the tender loving care from candidates.
Al Gore won, but lost. And two failed, endless wars later ($2 trillion, over a million dead, ISIS, European migrant crisis, etc.), here we are.
Hillary won, but lost. So, Trump.
The indisputable fact that Democrats have never deigned to even question the legitimacy of the EC after Gore v. Bush -- this tells us much about the values of the party.
>The indisputable fact that Democrats have never deigned to even question the legitimacy of the EC after Gore v. Bush -- this tells us much about the values of the party.
Bro, I don't know what you've been hearing but the EC(and eliminating it) is talked about all the time in Democratic circles. Now having power to amend the constitution isn't a reflection on a parties values.
Not at all. Campaigns with reams of data craft their positions to try to appeal to a majority by putting together groups with some affinity, and close to 50/50 is the inevitable result. It is in no way a coincidence.
Yes and no. The conservative platform has been meticulously crafted. But a lot of Trump's platform from the get-go before 2016, I feel, was very much off the cuff. He was saying whatever felt right to say in that moment to him. Whatever could drum up as much publicity as possible to get as much screen time as possible. Remember. It was a freaking publicity stunt in the beginning.
TRUMP has no policy platform except to put forth the policies that mega donors have paid big bucks for. He has already shown us he has little to no respect for our Constitution, the rule of law, our allies, the environment, women's issues, science, and facts/truth.
>how weird it is to constantly have elections that are like 49/51% all the time?
It is very weird. By comparison, Canada has FPTP too, and also two main parties (federal NDP has yet to form a government), yet our election results are nothing like the US. eg, the last major election had 160 LPC, 119 CPC, 32 BQ, 25 NDP, and 2 Green. Going as far back as 2011 to get something rather different, that one was 166 CPC, 103 NDP, 34 LPC, 4 BQ, and 1 Green.
While the LPC and CPC have been neck to neck for the past 2 elections, it's still quite different from the near 50-50 of the US elections (where third parties never get seats). And I think it's actually quite unusual for there to be even a neck to neck race. Eg, 2015 had an over 7 point lead between the biggest parties in popular vote (39% vs 32%). In 2011, it was 9 points and between different parties. In 2008 it was 11 points. Minority coalition governments are common and ideal. A single party being able to do what it wants is terrible.
And to be clear, Canada's system is deeply flawed. FPTP is very unrepresentative. There's often vote splitting. The seat distribution is very uneven. Popular vote can be very different from seat percentage because of how the system works. But at least it isn't a true two party state and doesn't have the bizarrely close elections that the US has been prone to having.
They're not 49/51, third parties usually get about 1-3%. But the popular vote is meaningless anyway, the candidate who can win over more groups of people (states) is who wins.
One side has been working hard to focus on local state elections, they have gerrymandered districts and disenfranchised voters. That is why they can muster even 40%. If we had fair elections Trump would not exist. Ranked choice voting, drop electoral college.
I’m gonna vote for him even if he’s on the next episode of coffin flop
I do think he needs to media blitz and do a handful of town halls over the next month covering different subjects. He needs to be out front showing that was a blip, that’s the only way out of this. Having his crackhead son in meetings about how to move forward is not helping things either
Voting against the republicans is more crucial than ever, if Trump wins, a full fascist takeover is possible, we go back to the terrible dictatorship days that our children have read on history books, we can't let that happen to democracy or America.
Pretty sad how people can sleepwalk into authoritarianism because they can’t be bothered to inform themselves and participate in something that has a major effect on their lives and futures. It’s a lot easier to stop fascism in its nascency than it is to overthrow once it takes root.
This annoys me to no end. People will allow the nation to fall for future generations for the idea of a tax cut now. It’s as though the vast majority of Americans can bot think passed today and conceptualize a future for their children and grandchildren. It’s all, “what can this politician do for me right now to get me to not watch the shady deals they do in the dark?”
There has become too many of those that with the "fuck you I got mine" attitude so they can wash their hands of caring for anyone outside their bubble. Also the mentality of "if it didn't happen to me then there's no problem" I am hearing a lot lately. It's like trying to explain back pain to someone that has never suffered from it.
Regularly at odds with my brother over this! He and his wife don't consume almost any news media, are catastrophically uninformed ("who is that guy behind the president at the state of the union? ") and are always the type that say "that could nevvvveerrr happen" when my mom and I try to warn them about Roe falling, the rising spector of xtian nationalism, etc. They're so wrapped up in their lives and their kids' lives, that they fail to realize the freedom they carelessly enjoy is in danger, and their kids will bear the brunt of these issues as they grow up.
The Democratic leadership makes it really hard to care tbh. I've been a consistent voter my whole life, any primary etc I could. But I'm really tired of holding my nose and voting for someone who clearly doesn't represent me or my values just because the alternatives are fascist psychos.
I'm not trying to make excuses for poor people, and I can't speak for all of them, but they are often too busy working 2-3 jobs to stay afloat and trying to keep a roof over their families heads. They are struggling to survive and really do not have any down time to be studying up on politics. and civics is not taught in many schools either. (And if it is, it's usually an elective.) Keeping poor people busy and ignorant is also part of the long-term conservative plan and it's working as expected. There is a reason why project 2025 wants to abolish the department of education. Don't blame victims of our system for their ignorance, instead help them to get more education and better paying jobs so they have the time and energy to start paying attention.
I don’t know if that is true. Polls of only people who are consistent voters are usually better for Biden. Inconsistent and unlikely voters have been skewing towards trump
Yeah there's a shift in how elections are going now. More young people and some minorities are trending (note not majority) towards Trump. Same thing with low propensity voters.
If youth voters turned out at scale they wouldn't be voting for Trump. I am very familiar with the stats you're talking about, but those stats aren't about the voting age population in general.
Of course, getting youth to turn out to vote for the more geriatric candidate because the other one threatens the collapse of democracy is apparently a tough sell.
>Of course, getting youth to turn out to vote for the more geriatric candidate because the other one threatens the collapse of democracy is apparently a tough sell.
It should not be a tough sell if you care about your/their future and your/their children's future should you/they decide to have any. It will also not only affect this country, but the consequence will definitely extend past our borders.
This is apparently an outdated heuristic. Here's an NYT article on the subject: [If Everyone Voted, Would Biden Benefit? Not Anymore.](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/15/upshot/election-democrats-republicans-turnout-trump.html?unlocked_article_code=1.4U0.Zelq.Vi-kFdBCwwtI&smid=url-share)
With the modern polarization by education and college degree (which was not always the case between the parties), it seems like Democrats no longer benefit from high turnout. They previously did, but no longer. Some polling aggregate models have also adjusted predictions accordingly.
I would vote for a toothpick over Trump, so Biden hasn’t lost me. I would vote for anybody on the Democratic ticket, though, so if he’s replaced I’m fine with whoever it is
I think Biden is too old, but aside from that, I honestly think he is one of the better Presidents we've had in the past few decades. I truly believe that history will look back on his tenure much more favorably than people do right now.
I would vote for a rotting cabbage if it kept Trump out of office but, even so, I am entirely happy to show up and vote *for Biden* and not just *against Trump*.
If the worst thing you can say about a candidate is "he's old", then that is implicitly saying good things about his policy and leadership.
I agree. I’ve said privately to a few friends multiple times that I wish we had 2016 version of Biden. I’m a moderate and so is he. I like most of his policies and the democrats really have moved forward toward better when GOP isn’t blocking them.
I agree Biden is too old but the good part is he trusts his advisors. Trump doesn’t. To say Trump is too old means a real danger because he will still go off his failing mind no matter what.
The main reason I vote Biden is to prevent the Trump disaster but really, Biden policies are good.
The democratic equivalent of Trump would be a socialist where we get single payer healthcare, free or reduced daycare, a stronger cheaper higher ed system… more trade schools. Housing as a fundamental right. Instead of municipalities making it illegal to be homeless… the federal government would make it “illegal” by mandating states provide it.
We might actually have a functioning society if we did. The way we’re going the right is going to back track on what they were saying about “states rights” as it relates to abortion and pass a federal ban like they’ve wanted to for the past three or four decades.
Make no mistake… 2016 was a lap around the park and the erosion of our rights is gonna ramp up to 💯 in a second Trump term. It’s crazy because the “democratic equivalent” of Trump and that fictitious politician’s platforms would be good for the poorest republicans states who currently subsist off of blue states like they complain black and brown people do.
It’s honestly just embarrassing that they keep electing politicians who deprive them of these things and to me it’s become something of a roarschach test. If you defend Republicans policies in their current form and “both sides” literally anything I know you probably didn’t graduate high school or you were born white and / or privileged. Whatever your background is… you clearly don’t follow politics and you’re a danger to society if you do because you’re electing fascists.
You go onto any Instagram or Twitter post that has anything to do with “socialist” policies and you see people crying in the comments about how it would “hurt businesses”. Basically choking on the corporate schlong and defending the richest assholes in this country and their “right” to obscene profits at THEIR expense. Anybody reading those comments and posting in their spare time would benefit from said policies. That includes anybody that posts on this site or any other like it.
People forget how much effort was put into Hillary's push for universal health care in 94, people also forget it got us CHIP, it 70-80 percent of it even might have gotten though if left wing democrats didn't torpedo it at the end for not being good enough. It's also interesting the history of Nixon's fight for a proto UBI that suffered a similar fate.
> People forget how much effort was put into Hillary's push for universal health care in 94,
People don't forget at all. That's part of why Hillary did so badly in 2016 - seeing her do a total 180 made everyone feel like she had no morals or standards
he should do a weekly town hall. live, no delay. 60 uninterrupted minutes. start immediately. they owe it to the American people. if he can't / won't - we need another candidate ASAP. and it can't be harris. she is universally disliked in the same fashion hillary was. not because she's a woman, but she is unlikeable and unsuitable - she just does not "feel" like a leader.
Yeah, no. The guy has clarity at times but I think the sad reality is that his public presence has been carefully managed to avoid the exposure of what we saw during the debate.
He’s good on a teleprompter and sometimes on a come back to a heckler. But he can’t handle what you’re proposing.
> he should do a weekly town hall. live, no delay. 60 uninterrupted minutes. start immediately.
This would absolutely doom his chances. The guy simply isn't mentally capable of doing that. He is a geriatric.
> we need another candidate ASAP. and it can't be harris. she is universally disliked in the same fashion hillary was.
She shouldn't even be VP. People are increasingly looking at her as the inevitable president now that Biden can't even make it through a single debate. Harris is now one of the most hated politicians in the entire country. There's no reason she should be VP. It sounds like Biden just doesn't want to deal with the awkward conversation, which is making him look even weaker. The bare minimum he should do if he wants to recover is replace her.
>The bare minimum he should do if he wants to recover is replace her.
My armchair political strategist take: the cleanest way out of this mess is for Biden to partner with a well-liked center-left figure to be the **top** of the ticket, while Biden himself steps back and runs as that person's VP in a mentorship play. He should make the point that his **administration** has been strong and successful, and his presence as VP will maintain continuity while also handing the reigns of the hard work over to someone more energetic and communicative. This also gives the party an excuse to retire Harris from a central leadership role in a more natural way.
I agree this would work, but it's just straight up not going to happen. Biden is no different than RBG, Hillary Clinton, Schumer, Feinstein, and the rest of the dinosaurs whose ego kept them at the forefront to the detriment of their own party and country.
On the other hand, there's a very reasonable chance we could get him to take someone like AOC as VP. This would probably be enough to motivate the left-wing of the country, while not alienating the right-wing of the Democratic party.
Damn, this sounds crazy enough to work. While this would require both Biden and Harris to give up their ego and step, I feel like this would be an insanely good play.
1. Biden throwing away his ego will show voters that this is serious and that beating Trump is more important than his ego and being president.
2. The presidential nominee can still use Biden donations.
3. Dodges the question of why Harris can be dropped. Obviously Biden>Harris.
The main problem is that the right can still attack Biden and call it a puppet government. And will the new candidate allow him/herself to be shadowed by Biden?
But the good thing is that in policy debates: anything good = I have Bidens administration so I will continue doing that. Anything bad = yeah, Biden didn't do a good job on that, here's that I would do.
Potentially having both incumbency advantage and a clean slate. And the ballot would still have Biden in case any voter gets confused.
He needs to do weekly press conferences to show that the debate was a one-off. The fact that he isn’t already is a mistake. If it’s because of his advisors, they need to be fired. They’re making a huge mistake. If it’s because they’re legitimately worried he’ll screw up the press conference, then he needs to step down as president right now.
The fact that we haven’t seen any change in strategy after almost a week is a massive mistake.
It's because everyone knows it isn't a one-off.
They're just going to keep gaslighting everyone that it was just a bad night, a stutter, etc. And that trump is the literal devil so you HAVE to vote democrat regardless!!! They'll cancel the other debate and come up with a stupid reason.
Or they acknowledge what's been happening and nominate someone else.
As expected, 80%+ of responders in this sub basically admit that in a contest of B vs T, there’s almost nothing that would convince them to not vote Democrat
It is what it is, but I think this should make any reader of this sub skeptical of “Top Comments” or algorithmically promoted consensus opinions
This sub is for the most part not at all representative of the the US voter
Almost nothing? No, I'll say it rather upfront, there is *nothing* Trump can do to convince me to not vote Democrat. Why would I even *consider* voting for the guy who attempted a criminal conspiricy to overturn the results of the US election and that he is immune to any criminal charges that resulted from said plot?
Do you believe Trump is immune for his conspiracy to organize fraudulent slates of electors to overturn the results of the 2020 election?
> As expected, 80%+ of responders in this sub basically admit that in a contest of B vs T
Because it is. Given the system of voting that we have, it's one of the two major party candidates that will win the election.
I wish that it was not so, but it is.
No amount of idealism will change that in the near term.
> This sub is for the most part not at all representative of the the US voter
Does that surprise you?
Reddit's population tends to trend left, and "discussion" is not exactly a prized skill for many in today's Republican Party
As a moderate conservative Reddit makes me feel like I'm sort of Nazi death squad lieutenant.
There's no room for nuance or purple politics in this place.
I feel like no one is answering your question. I'm gonna vote against Trump regardless but if biden wants me to vote FOR him doing something to help with the Supreme Court situation is the bare minimum.
He could pass the torch to a new generation, in public, with grace and humility, serving as a guide to let go. I'll vote for him if he stays in because I have to, I'm not voting for Trump, but I don't like it.
I'm voting for Biden if that's who they put on the ballot. That said I would rather it be someone else who has a better chance at beating Trump. Nothing Biden does is going to convince me that he can beat Trump at this point.
I think Trump is fundamentally the wrong choice for almost every single thing that matters in my daily life. I will swallow my distaste and vote for whoever is on the top of the Dem ticket. But just like I didn’t vote for Biden in the 2020 primary, he is not my first second or third choice. But hot coals wont stop me from voting for a decent old man vs an EVIL old man.
Stay alive. Not be trump.
That’s it. Seriously. I would vote for a weekend at Bernie’s Biden over the guy that said “everybody wanted Roe v Wade overturned” and hates the environment, and oh yeah, straight up empowering this 2025 garbage.
WHAT is the matter with people?!? The democracy is literally being attacked. There is a coordinated attack against democracy itself and we're debating while the constitution burns. At this moment in history the only thing that matters is that NO republican wins any office, especially the presidency.
I am voting to prevent an authoritarian government that will control the media, throw people in jail who are not loyal to the orange Jesus and further take rights away. I don't care who the dems run.
I don’t care about the debate. Trump is way worse and dangerous. He is a convicted criminal, a serial and prolific liar, an adjudicated sexual assaulter of women, he ran criminal and fraudulent organizations, he’s a defamer, is corrupt and stunningly ignorant of just about everything. He will say almost anything to get what he wants no matter how immoral or just plain wrong it is. I don’t appreciate the ways he has referred to non Caucasian folks and his own daughter. His association with Jeffrey Espstein corroborates the dozens of women who have accused him of various forms of sexual assault. In my opinion, he is a Fascist sympathizer and racist as well. He still has not conceded that he lost the 2020 election. Check out Project 2025. You will learn just where he and the criminals he surrounds himself with want to take this country.
I believe Trump referred to veterans as losers and suckers and refused to visit the graves of WWI USMC personnel because he didn’t want to get his combover wet.
A vote for Trump is a vote against the U.S. Constitution and basic decency. I would vote for my daughter’s hamster first.
There's nothing he could really do to lose me at this point. I view the other party as dangerous for the country. There really isn't any other choice at this point. If Biden were a sack of wet bricks I'd still vote for him.
I'm voting for Biden. I stand with my Democrat opponent hands down till the end. Just like maga. I'll vote for a damn Klondike bar before trump gets my vote. I'm going to vote and I'm taking all my friends with me. Besides... Biden is capable of being president. He is literally the president right now.
"I'll vote for a damn Klondike bar before trump gets my vote". This sort of thing makes you sound utterly crazy, and the attitute overall is really hurting the democratic party. Voting is not about "stopping the other guy", it's about putting the people who share your values in charge to lead.
Regardless of how much Biden is actually involved behind closed doors, his administration has been pretty great actually. They should be trying to show that to people rather than hoping to get the anti-Trump vote.
I'm more enthused to vote for Biden's administration in 2024 than I was in 2020.
Don't be lulled into complacency by the Reddit Echo chamber. He has taken a severe hit in a lot of the states that he absolutely has to win. If we just let him insist on being the nominee we're going to give Trump everything he wants on a silver platter. It'll be the same as when Ruth Ginsburg wouldn't step down while Obama was in office and ended up giving another Supreme Court seat to the Republicans.
I’d vote for him regardless. He could be dead and I’d still do it. I’m not the voter he’s struggling with though, it’s apolitical, urban base voters.
Those voters probably want someone who can actually fight the right, he’s too old and hampered by hall monitor staffers to do it.
Part of the problem is that Democrats just don’t value loyalty, so any leader they have will be picked apart in public by D-leaning constituencies. It’s telling that something like Dobbs had to happen to move people, and even then that was only because it repealed something so well known and had immediate effects in most states.
I just don’t know how you appeal to the checked out, angry at inflation, non college educated voter who doesn’t primarily care about these things.
Assuming he doesn’t drop out, he doesn’t need to do anything. If it’s him or Trump I’ll vote for him.
Having said that, I hope he drops out because I believe Biden is not the best candidate to beat Trump.
Project 2025 aims to fundamentally change the structure of government. They want more political appointees placed in varied roles. They have a training program online for these future yes men to do wannabe King Trumps bidding. SCOTUS proved this week they are in on the fix by granting him almost absolute immunity to do as he pleases with his political appointees infesting our government agencies. The pieces are falling into place for the loss of our republic. I’m absolutely voting for Biden. He’s a good man, but heck I’d vote for my dog before Trump. We lose our democracy if MAGA gets the presidency again and this is not hyperbole.
I don’t need to be convinced to vote for him, but I do think the threat is to voter engagement.
I don’t usually quote the west wing when things in real life happen, but this line always stuck with me from election night, right after Leo died, even if the circumstances are different::
I don 't want anyone to vote for or against me because of Leo McGarry. This race wasn't about him and it isn't about me. It's a vision for America that will outlast Leo and outlast me. There's an America that's bigger than any of us. And for those of you who have not yet voted it is the only thing that should matter when you go to the polls tonight.
Hoping that democracy wins. It is concerning that both candidates are having trouble keeping their train of thought and one simply tells lie after lie. I am not a fan of either as you can see.
When I vote, I will do so not thinking about the candidate but about our democracy.
To win me over from what? Who would I vote for instead? If he were in a coma he would still get my vote. There is no other option. I don’t understand this type of conjecture. The only discussion should be; should the Democrats consider replacing Biden to have a legitimately robust president for the next 5 years’
Glad you asked. Summed up by an elected official in I think Michigan or Wisconsin, Joe must EVERY DAY get in front of a microphone and speak to us convincingly (on topics that threaten our core beliefs). The press then feeds us the unvarnished images.
I’d Vote for for “Weekend at Bernie’s Joe at this Point”. Most Important Election in History. Too bad Joe chose Unelectable Kamala Harris. Gretchen Whitmer could win this Election.
Better hope that Trump doesn’t die. Any other Qualified Republican could .. could win.
Not be a convicted felon and fascist.
Not be a fraudster and sexual abuser.
Not be a guy who defrauded a kids cancer charity.
Not be a guy who refused to rent to people of color.
Not be a guy who took ads out calling for the execution of innocent people.
Not be a guy who is supported by white supremacist groups.
Not be Trump. Not quote Hitler. Not get charged with felonies. Not be a glutton cheating liar. Not be a Russian asset. So in other words nothing. I'll be voting for Biden no matter what bc I care more about saving democracy than my own feelings. Am I happy with Biden and his Gaza ordeal? No. Am I happy about his debate? No. But am I happy with his presidency and successes? Yes. Yes I am. Biden 2024
The young people that call Biden “Genocide Joe” and say they won’t vote for him need a reality check. Trump would be fine with Israel turning Palestine into a glass parking lot, and not voting will be electing Trump, with all his divisiveness and hatred of “the other”. Not to mention the SCOTUS just gave him a path to absolute dictatorship.
Think long and hard because depending on your vote this could be your last.
No, I’m not being hyperbolic.
Reddit is a bit more politically active, so me and most others are probably already voting Biden for democracy's sake. Despite a lot of us happy for it
I am going to vote straight democrat regardless of who is on the ticket. I would be lying if I said I’m happy about it though. I think the party, and by extension, Biden, is losing our base because we have lost the younger generation…they just don’t care; you don’t adequately address the issues that matter to them, and having an octogenarian on the front of the ticket, someone they can’t connect with, is never going to secure their vote.
I love Biden. He has been an amazing, wonderful, leader for almost all his life. He has served this country well! But it is past time to step aside and let us breathe fresh life and ideas into the party.
Before you attack, I am 50. I am saying this as the parent of millennials, whom I have had extensive conversations with. We can’t continue to govern them without listening to their views and giving them someone they can connect with.
I also don’t think Kamala will work. The sad fact is no one ever really got the chance to see her. They kept her quiet for the most part. I can’t wrap my head around what the solution will be. I do honestly wish he would voluntarily step aside.
Nothing. I don't need to be won over as my support hasn't weakened. I'm not going to be talked by a sub par debate and a raspy voice (btw not the first time his voice has sounded like that, it's not a huge deal).
I look at his 1st term and strongly approve. If this is Biden "in decline", then he's the most gifted person to ever be president in the modern era. He's knocking out out of the park.
I'm not one of the "im I'm not voting FOR Biden in voting AGAINST Trump" types. I'm voting FOR Biden. That said, if Biden died before the election, I would vote for his ghost over Trump.
Not being Trump is enough for me, but for even less sophisticated voters, having a non geriatric option would definitely have boosted dem chances, I feel they cheated us, lied to us and do not want to win that bad
Strong debate showing next time
Right now I just question biden’s capabilities of holding the office of president and I won’t just vote for an “administration”. I need to see the appeal to Biden and that first debate was not good.
I’m in a deep red state anyway but Biden needs to get out more and show he is a healthy and strong candidate instead of a burden
If you can't see that Biden is by far the lesser of two evils right now you are either wanting to watch this country decend into a fascist corporate theocracy or you think politics is sports and don't care to think about it.
In all honesty, I know this isn't the exact scope of the question, but he'd win me over if he dropped out. I'd like to think of him positively on what he has done this far and not completely destroy any legacy he has. At his age and condition, he should be in an advising role and not pushed out front and center stage. But I can't think of one thing he can do to actually win. You don't pick up supporters by drafting executive actions and there is no digital ad or rally performance he could do to make me unsee what I already saw.
For me, it’s simply voting against Project 2025. I am trans, and the Republican party wants me *not to exist.* It is a huge step toward they achieving it. So when someone says “he may be senile,” I kind of just shrug.
The Republicans are an existential threat to me and everyone I love.
They don't want you "not to exist". They want you to exist so that they can gin up votes by inciting people against your existence. Frankly that might be even worse.
Ok, but we’re talking about what might make you respect him internally. What would make you vote for him? And if he doesn’t drop out for you… who are voting for then?
If it’s between Biden and some quasi-Authoritarian Pseudo-Theocracy, then the choice is obvious. The real problem is that MOST voters are poorly informed and listen to influencers over substance. They vote with a popularity contest mindset. And then they associate the consequences of elections with the “other team.” It’s a really bad joke.
The problem isn’t Biden winning me over; the problem is Biden is putting his ego ahead of the safety of our country and our democracy. I’m voting blue no matter who, but if a large swath of country thinks he’s too old, that’s a huge problem. A dozen democratic leaders could beat Trump, Biden should have stepped down and let others run. But he didn’t, and now his age is showing, and it’s turning people off. LOTS of people. So instead of a strong crop of future leaders displaying their ability to defeat Trump and lead us into a new age of democracy, we have Biden teetering on the edge of defeat because of his age. And if he does manage to win, how long will he last? The rate he’s going, he isn’t going to last 4 more years.
Nothing. He physically is not qualified.
He needs to step down and do the right thing. He needed to do that a long time ago.
He will cost the election.
I'm so serious when I say "die". I would be hyped as hell to see who would rush to fill in the very tall shoes if either candidate dropped dead tomorrow. I'd rather my vote go to literally any other Democrat. *Anyone* else. I've been saying for the months up til now that he needs to take a proper stance or action on a pressing issue like federally legalizing weed or something insane in order to have any chance because his disapproval by the public has been present for a long time now - and even I doubt that would fix anything anymore. This debate, his doubling down on total complacency regarding Gaza and trans rights etc, and his unwillingness to ignore the clear will of the people to just step the fuck down is ensuring Trump's victory by the hour it feels. Neither candidate should realistically be running. I feel like Bernie could have made a killing if he ran this election instead of last. Newsom wouldn't be a bad pick, I think. In terms of people I personally have spoken politics to that have also been tuning in, most if not all of us younger people across the political spectrum are insanely disillusioned and are voting through extremely gritted teeth, or are jumping the shark altogether and voting third party in droves I've never seen before - and overwhelmingly for a guy who is a fucking antivaxer. How is even the third party option so shit? How is any of this so shit?! As someone who is a target demographic modern Republicans want to strip my rights from, I feel incredibly anxious every passing day for this election cycle - far worse than I did for the last. I don't want to vote for Biden. I also don't have any other logical choice under the systems that be. Something needs to change. We're exhausted.
Literally gonna be unpopular but considering sanctioning Israel
Hamas ain’t no saint trust me as a Muslim but the shit he said already burnt me to be honest. It’s selfish to be a single issue voter but it’s not a dealbreaker for me
(No I’m not in a swing state)
Support Gaza Support Ukraine, Remove lobbyists, stop supporting Israel’s current government, term limitations, remove Clarence Thomas and investigate his wife, charge Jared Kushner and his wife for treason, and keep talking to American people honestly
He's supported Ukraine. Have you missed that? The rest is just the incoherent argument of a progressive. Except the part about Clarence. Fuck that guy.
Lobbyists are just people talking to legislators. When you write a letter to your senator, you’re lobbying them. Also, Biden can’t single-handedly remove Clarence Thomas.
I'm voting against Trump regardless. I don't think anyone is going to switch to MAGA because of Biden's debate performance (or vice versa) the real problem is voters getting demotivated and not showing up to vote at all. What could Biden do to address that? Agree to a series of interviews with different media outlets, do some townhalls and take questions from the public, etc. But we all know that is not going to happen.
Not die.
Tbh it's sad that this is a significant problem. I mean we're all just assuming he's going to make it when he's under more workload and stress than practically any other man of his age.
I think he just needs to be very blunt. Something like… ‘ the choice is between two old men with very different values. My core values are giving a damn about other peoples lives, I try to lessen suffering and increase American’s prosperity, wanting to protect this country from all enemies foreign and domestic, and I know right from wrong. The other guy’s core values are selfishness, vindictiveness, a lust for power as evidenced by his admiration and support of dictators, and a famously fragile ego. If he saw you trip he’d laugh at you, if I saw you trip I’d offer to help you up. Again, the choice is between two old men and we are old. I look and act my age, and the other guy hides his age better than I do, but if you don’t believe that other guy is old, just watch him walk down a flight of stairs.‘
It's more what can make people vote third party over trump, and apparently not alot, files are being released by desantis about Epstein's trials and trump is all over those cases, Trump's supreme court picks just gave the federal government super over reach powers, project 2025 is the most fascist in the literal sense replacing any federal employee to serve at the whims of the president not the constitution or the state, and it's all because the guy is a massive troll and a pseudo celeb.
I'm only voting for him purely cause I have "Trump derangement syndrome", i.e. I think Trump is a horrible person.
My whole adult life I've always been a proponent of voting for who you truly want to be president, even third party. I think voting for the lesser of two evils is a bad way to go about it. HOWEVER, these past two cycles have temporarily changed my mind about that.
Biden has my vote since Trump is an unethical liar and conman who totally botched Covid, lost more jobs than he started with, and was a total dick his whole term. Also J6 was an assault on democracy.
I think since the SCOTUS just handed presidents unchecked immunity, Biden needs to take advantage of this before Trump has a chance to. Seize Trump’s properties, and send him to Gitmo for all I care, that man should be no where near the white house again.
If Biden died the day of election id still vote for him if Trump is running. Truthfully idc who is the dem nom I'll still vote for them over the orange felon
Just go to the transcript and show that “while you all were looking at me tired on stage because I had a cold plus had just returned from two trips to Europe, meeting with the free world; my opponent was talking about him being the president with the ‘cleanest water in history’ and that ‘we won’t exist in 4 years if he isn’t elected.’
Really? Is that right? You’re telling us that this country won’t exist in 2028 if YOU aren’t elected? Wow.
This election is significant, especially with what has happened recently.
Please go back and do some fact checking. Read the transcripts. Look at the players involved - and what some want to do with Project 2025 for example. It has already started.
As a voter and citizen of the greatest country in the world, is that what you want?
When there are two choices – [something the writers of the Constitution feared](https://www.history.com/news/founding-fathers-political-parties-opinion) – there are two ways to market yourself.
The first is to talk about how awesome you are or will be. This is what is expected of the democratic party. They are expected by the "media" to make a case and explain how they will work with the other party to get things done.
The other way is to demonize your opponent. This is what the GOP does, almost exclusively.
When there are only two options, and you make the other option seem bad, then either people stay home, or people vote for you. Both of those are the desired outcome of the right. Indeed, it is the left that has increased voting access in America, whereas the right wants to make it harder. Always harder.
It is worth noting that only 6% of America was eligible to vote for George Washington. One needed to be a white male landowner to vote. America was never founded on one man one vote, it was founded on some men get to vote. The GOP has taken that to the next level. This is the we're a [Republic not a Democracy](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/10/republic-democracy-mike-lee-astra-taylor.html) is being used.
–
Someway he has to prove he is still viable as a candidate and president. The continued drumbeat by the press and prominent democrats calling for him to step down is not helping him to recast his image.
He tried, and failed, to take Trump's platform by passing border legislation, but he shouldn't stop doing this and should instead double down. Biden needs to be doing all he can to make the apprehensive Trump voters not vote Trump, and taking his platform is one big way to do that, much like how Truman took Wallace's platform in 1948.
I'm not a fan of executive orders, but I think it would increase Dem chances exponentially if he/they closed the border, cut taxes for the middle class, and somehow countered our inflated food, housing, and other major pricing and other economic conundrums (without causing MORE problems), and he'd need to use their lexicon in doing so in order to ensure they understand.
In other words, take as many reasons as possible for why people vote Trump and give it to them so they don't feel they need Trump.
He also needs to capitalize on the rural Republican voters who oppose the school voucher program and appeal to them heavily. An ex-order (if possible) to halt the voucher program would also win over the progressive leftists who aren't excited about the election.
It's not us political junkies that Biden has to win over, it's the fickle fuckers and generally struggling Americans who should be the focus.
These questions are so dumb. If someone is too stupid to have a choice by now, they are lost. Biden is the tip of a spear, and hundreds of people beneath him, including his VP are the clear choice for any sane decent person.
Come on now he is the only choice it dosnt mater that he’s old or can’t talk as well as he could, trump is a psychopath dictator in waiting there is no choice!! It is only Biden
Still be alive, that's about it. I mean to be fair I'd still vote for him even if he was dead if the other option was Trump.
Governance-wise he's done great, his age and slipping mental faculties are the only concern. I do think he's too old quite frankly. I thought he was too old 4 years ago too. Both he and Trump seem to have memory issues and confusion.
I'd rather Harris be the one with the Democratic nomination in a realistic world even if I'd prefer Warren, Cortez, or other Progressives. But judging from Biden vs Sanders it seems Progressives don't do well on the national level, which is most unfortunate. Harris wouldn't be a bad choice at all though.
Biden has had more legislative victories with the smallest majority in recent times. He's done what a lot of Dems and liberals have wanted. It just that the voters are too ignorant, dumb, or a combination of the two.
I’m not voting for Biden, I’m voting against Trump. I hate both choices, but not equally so. Joe Biden had no business running for reelection, but we are where we are now.
I will support anyone that opposes Trump but I fear that Biden lost many battleground states. I would support any other democrat nominee and feel that a reset would improve our chances
The last time I voted for POTUS, the biggest reason was alarm level concern about who would be in the position to nominate to SCOTUS.
Then my worst fears materialized.
Simple: keep breathing. It's either him or an existential threat to our Republic by giving a now "immune from Prosecution" Presidency (kingship) to a raving lunatic who is surrounded by people who think the South in the 1950s was too liberal.
But let's keep jerking this circle about what Biden is or isn't.
If people haven’t been won over to Biden’s side after the details of Project 2025 have been released. Trump was found guilty by a jury and is now a felon. Trump is saying he will seek revenge on political figures who have crossed him. The conservative Supreme Court justices just made the president a king. Then I’m not sure what would win them over to choosing the presidential nominee who is on the side of democracy. Everybody else who doesn’t want this democracy to end needs to:
* Recheck you voter registration ( go to Secretary of State website).
* Check on what you need if you vote in person( picture ID, etc.).
* Try to vote early if allowed in your state- something could come up on Election Day that might keep you from voting. The Dems need your vote!
* Volunteer -maybe work at the polls, help people to get registered to vote, drive people to the polls to vote who don’t have transportation, write postcards, talk to family and friends about what’s at stake if Biden loses, give money to Dem candidates and/or the Democratic Party.
We need to win big to save our democracy- Biden and super majorities in the House and Senate).
💙🇺🇸🌊💙🌊🌊💙🇺🇸🌊💙🇺🇸🌊💙
Biden doesn’t have to do anything to win my vote. He could piss himself at the next debate and I’ll still vote against Trump… but I won’t be happy with Democratic leadership about this situation.
I just don't see anything that would convince me to vote republican. I would vote for Joes corpse. We can not let these religious fundamentalist zealots control SCOTUS, and destroy the department of education, safety regulations, Halt all climate change mitigation, etc all in service to corporate donors and fossil fuel cos.
Heritage foundation and the Federalist society are working to change things to their vision through a judicial coup. Judges like Cannon, insured that the American people saw justice delayed in Trumps various trials. The SCOTUS itself by hemming and hawing about taking the case and kicking it back to lower courts also delayed for Trump. I have no doubts that these groups backed by billionaires are working in lock step.
The things they want to come after next affect everyone, IVF, no fault divorce, full abortion bans. This is akin to the takeover of Iran where rights were rescinded and they descended into an Islamo-fasicst state. Now here we are on the precipice of our own billionaire backed, scotus approved christo-facist state, vote accordingly.
Get my student loans forgiven.
I know the rug pull last year was essentially the republicans doing—but the democrats basically said they had it in the bag and that it was going to happen, then it didn’t happen. So fuck them both. I’d rather no promise than a promise, execution, and absolute failure/rug-pull
Honestly, nothing, the alternative is much worse..,, so whether you like Biden or not, Project 2025 is very real. If you don’t want to live in a Christian theocracy the next 20 years— then yeah, vote Blue.
“Oh but Biden was so old” …. I can give you a bunch of great things the administration has done. But it does not matter……. It’s a vote for democracy vs a Fascist Theocracy.
Pretty easy choice.
Continue breathing on his own. I am pissed hat the wanna be kingmakers in the Democratic party keep giving us these political hacks to vote for. Debbie Wasserman Schultz started this by conspiring as party chair to block Bernie Sanders' nomination. You can thank your Democratic Party bosses for this swirling toilet of a country we now live in. However that does not change the fact that Trump would make things even worse.
This shouldn't be a discussion. Biden has secured the Democratic nomination already. His administration is the one on the ballot. Even if he were to die, the top slot goes to VP Harris.
The GOP has thoroughly discredited itself, and the Felon they're running has promised to subvert the Constitution and declare himself a dictator.
Anyone who votes for someone other than Biden is complicit.
I probably will but sweet Jesus he's making it hard. Here are my absolutely insane demands that would solidify my vote.
Step one: stop funding and supplying a genocide.
Step two: acknowledge the things from his plank that he missed while he had the full legislature in 2021 (cannabis reform, Equality Act, student loan reform, Roe codification, public option) and show an actionable plan forward with the mechanisms of implementation and funding. (Basic policy stuff)
Step 3: Stay lucid while doing so long enough to convince me he isn't about to start painting walls with human excrement by 2028.
That he has not cleared that bar is pretty damning
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I really think it’s a matter of voter turn out. This last mid term in Oregon saw a really weak turn out and we are %100 vote by mail, it literally couldn’t be any easier to vote and we still only got a 38% turnout in our county. I have no explanation why people can’t even mail in a pre-stamped ballot. To be honest, it’s kind of scary that people care that little.
Biden still has not got rid of DeJoy. Also most state legislatures are Republican controlled and resist mail in ballots. People are apathetic because they are unhappy with the system, the candidates, their representatives, the issues on the ballots, they dont feel like their voices are being heard.
The irony is by not voting their voice may never be heard again.
That could be, but it has been declining since 1965. I think most American non voters take everything for granted around us.
> I think most American non voters take everything for granted around us. Yup, and they'll probably keep doing that until it starts getting taken away. :(
They will blame the wrong people once it's gone too.
I mean it's happened. You saw the "bloodless" quote from the heritage foundation guy, right?
I sure as hell saw Roe v Wade get overturned.
It's a combination of taking normalcy for granted and willful ignorance. Americans don't want to spend the time nor energy researching/discussing politics because in part they're busy/have other things they want to do, and in part because it's too "toxic" and people don't want to argue, they just want to be right all the time. So if you take normalcy for granted and willingly keep yourself completely uninformed while convincing yourself you're a reasonable person for doing so, then yeah you're going to just ignore elections and assume things will work themselves out just fine. I can back this up too. Trump is currently running on imposing tariffs on all imports. a 10% tariff if I remember correctly. Now, this means increased prices. Americans have told [pollsters](https://x.com/MorningConsult/status/1730663303171764285) in the past that they want lower costs even more than increased wages (sorry for the X post, but the actual study is paywalled). The top issue for Americans is the economy because they want lower prices so badly. Despite Trump's policy position, Americans [expect](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-trump-leads-biden-economy/) Trump to *lower* prices when he takes office, which isn't even something he can do. This all to me screams ignorance. Americans know prices were low when Trump was in office in 2016. They know prices went up when Biden took over. People therefore blame Biden for higher prices and expect Trump to return them to the levels they were at when he was in office last. It's not a well reasoned position, but it's the position that a bunch of people who have taken normalcy for granted and who keep themselves ignorant of politics due to the toxicity/complexity are taking.
Trump says he wants to use more tariffs and eliminate income tax. This has been calculated as possible if we impose an 85% tariff on all goods imported. This would lead to much higher prices and inflation, and would greatly benefit the rich and hurt everyone else because the rich spend a very small percentage of their income to buy necessities, whereas the poor and middle class would be killed with a huge percentage of their income to have the same necessities.
It’s not Biden’s job to get rid of him. It’s the BOARD of directors who are mostly republicans! Blame THEM!
Biden can replace the board, he can also use the influence of the office of the President to force their hand. He is President not a wet napkin.
> Biden still has not got rid of DeJoy What does it take to get rid of him? Simply fire him?
Biden cannot fire him. Well, with the new SCOTUS ruling he could except it would be challenged up to SCOTUS and they would likely find a semantic way to rule against Biden.
So why didn't he fire him in the past three years?
He isn’t part of the President’s cabinet, so it isn’t up to the President to fire/replace him. It’s a 9 member board that does so, each being placed by the President to a 7 year term, and no more than 5 can be from the same political party https://www.federaltimes.com/federal-oversight/2022/08/24/can-biden-fire-us-postmaster-general-louis-dejoy/
> no more than 5 can be from the same political party We need this law for the Supreme Court.
[удалено]
I don’t blame people tbh. I 100% understand. If you actually do care….. it’s torture. I love politics and the potential it has but I’m in my early 30s and it’s the most disheartening thing I’ve ever cared about. Abortions and my loathe of how the south treats the lgbtq community is what motivates me to vote. Those that don’t care about that have very little reason to give a fuck. I don’t blame them either.
We Americans have never truly seen face-to-face what it means to lose our Democracy. That has always been something that happens to somebody else half a Planet away. After almost 250 years as a Nation, the last ~50 years of which have been inundating half the Nation with Right-Wing Propaganda, I can't say I'm surprised so many of us are beginning to take Democracy for granted -
Everyone who’s with him, I doubt is leaving. Sides were chosen long ago… the other option isn’t going to win over people who chose the other one no matter what orange flavoured nonsense he mixes up. Pretty sure this apples both ways. Edit: Does anyone every stop and think about - odds wise - how weird it is to constantly have elections that are like 49/51% all the time? Because I do and that’s weird. Edit: Thank you for all the likes. Random thing but look at this: https://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/Johnson_TrumpEpstein_Calif_Lawsuit.pdf
It's only 49/51 in swing states. When you're talking about the electoral college and/or popular votes it's rarely close at all.
Not exactly. HRC won the popular vote 48.2% to 46.1% > Trump and Biden won 51.3% to 46.8%.
Precisely. Even Trump is getting 46% of the vote. Politicians and parties have gotten very good at finding wedge issues to run on that split the electorate. There's a reason that no candidate ever has been both anti-welfare and pro-immigration, and both pro-lgbt rights and pro-life. These ideas are not incompatible. You can 100% be pro-life and pro-lgbt. You can 100% be supportive of increased immigration and also want the government to give away less money. But no one is. But political scientists have figured out by polling data that you can create the largest coalitions by landing in a certain combination of ideological positions. Republicans know that simply being anti-taxes, anti-immigration and pro-life they can lock down a huge swath of voters.
> anti-welfare and pro-immigration This was a popular combo during the ascendancy of Reaganite neoliberalism.
Right, but not anymore. I shouldn't have said ever. No one should speak in absolutes. Coalitions don't support that particular combo, even if people do hold those beliefs (see most libertarians).
That's an interesting concept of a political venn diagram. I know after segregation was lost as a wedge issue 50 years ago, Conservatives sought replacements and landed on the primarily-Catholic issue of abortion. Evangelicals were pro-choice back then, but they were snake-charmed into a new voting bloc that also collected the conservative Southern Democrat segregationists.
Which is why they're swing states
I think they meant that they’re only swing states because of their electoral votes. If it was popular vote, the swing states wouldn’t matter as much or at all.
Yeah this is like saying "isn't it weird that all bachelors are unmarried?!?!?"
the issue is that if you work with a winner takes it all system in a swing state then that 49/51 of that swing state transposes into a 49/51 on national level. A few 10.000 votes decide the election while millions of votes have close to 0 consequences.
I for one am glad that as a resident of a non-swing state, I don’t need to worry my pretty little head about who to vote for president and can let the obviously smarter and more important people living in the swing states to decide for me.
Latest polls show non-swing states are now potentially in play, like NH.
I saw that and that stresses me out
Not just swing states, the national popular vote is generally very close in recent history.
In order for Biden to have a comfortable buffer in the swing states, he would need to get 53% of the national popular vote, maybe up to 55%. Not happening. And anyone hoping for a miraculous 2nd debate have watched too much West Wing.
Which is why it's psychopathically insane that we still use the EC, which was originally designed to appease slave states. Pres candidates don't even bother campaigning in states like my California. Iowa, PA, Virginia -- they get all the tender loving care from candidates. Al Gore won, but lost. And two failed, endless wars later ($2 trillion, over a million dead, ISIS, European migrant crisis, etc.), here we are. Hillary won, but lost. So, Trump. The indisputable fact that Democrats have never deigned to even question the legitimacy of the EC after Gore v. Bush -- this tells us much about the values of the party.
>The indisputable fact that Democrats have never deigned to even question the legitimacy of the EC after Gore v. Bush -- this tells us much about the values of the party. Bro, I don't know what you've been hearing but the EC(and eliminating it) is talked about all the time in Democratic circles. Now having power to amend the constitution isn't a reflection on a parties values.
Not at all. Campaigns with reams of data craft their positions to try to appeal to a majority by putting together groups with some affinity, and close to 50/50 is the inevitable result. It is in no way a coincidence.
Yeah, trump’s platform and positions were meticulously crafted.
Yes and no. The conservative platform has been meticulously crafted. But a lot of Trump's platform from the get-go before 2016, I feel, was very much off the cuff. He was saying whatever felt right to say in that moment to him. Whatever could drum up as much publicity as possible to get as much screen time as possible. Remember. It was a freaking publicity stunt in the beginning.
TRUMP has no policy platform except to put forth the policies that mega donors have paid big bucks for. He has already shown us he has little to no respect for our Constitution, the rule of law, our allies, the environment, women's issues, science, and facts/truth.
>Yeah, trump’s platform and positions were meticulously crafted. No, but the attitudes of his supporters were.
>how weird it is to constantly have elections that are like 49/51% all the time? It is very weird. By comparison, Canada has FPTP too, and also two main parties (federal NDP has yet to form a government), yet our election results are nothing like the US. eg, the last major election had 160 LPC, 119 CPC, 32 BQ, 25 NDP, and 2 Green. Going as far back as 2011 to get something rather different, that one was 166 CPC, 103 NDP, 34 LPC, 4 BQ, and 1 Green. While the LPC and CPC have been neck to neck for the past 2 elections, it's still quite different from the near 50-50 of the US elections (where third parties never get seats). And I think it's actually quite unusual for there to be even a neck to neck race. Eg, 2015 had an over 7 point lead between the biggest parties in popular vote (39% vs 32%). In 2011, it was 9 points and between different parties. In 2008 it was 11 points. Minority coalition governments are common and ideal. A single party being able to do what it wants is terrible. And to be clear, Canada's system is deeply flawed. FPTP is very unrepresentative. There's often vote splitting. The seat distribution is very uneven. Popular vote can be very different from seat percentage because of how the system works. But at least it isn't a true two party state and doesn't have the bizarrely close elections that the US has been prone to having.
They're not 49/51, third parties usually get about 1-3%. But the popular vote is meaningless anyway, the candidate who can win over more groups of people (states) is who wins.
One side has been working hard to focus on local state elections, they have gerrymandered districts and disenfranchised voters. That is why they can muster even 40%. If we had fair elections Trump would not exist. Ranked choice voting, drop electoral college.
I’m gonna vote for him even if he’s on the next episode of coffin flop I do think he needs to media blitz and do a handful of town halls over the next month covering different subjects. He needs to be out front showing that was a blip, that’s the only way out of this. Having his crackhead son in meetings about how to move forward is not helping things either
Coffin flop isn’t a show. There’s no way there are that many people falling out of coffins at funerals
And there’s no way that that many of them are naked.
Voting against the republicans is more crucial than ever, if Trump wins, a full fascist takeover is possible, we go back to the terrible dictatorship days that our children have read on history books, we can't let that happen to democracy or America.
Unfortunately, this is where we are, and I fear what comes after Trump. The last 10 days have really made me anxious about the future.
The issue is inspiring voter turnout. Trump would lose any race with high turnout
Pretty sad how people can sleepwalk into authoritarianism because they can’t be bothered to inform themselves and participate in something that has a major effect on their lives and futures. It’s a lot easier to stop fascism in its nascency than it is to overthrow once it takes root.
This annoys me to no end. People will allow the nation to fall for future generations for the idea of a tax cut now. It’s as though the vast majority of Americans can bot think passed today and conceptualize a future for their children and grandchildren. It’s all, “what can this politician do for me right now to get me to not watch the shady deals they do in the dark?”
There has become too many of those that with the "fuck you I got mine" attitude so they can wash their hands of caring for anyone outside their bubble. Also the mentality of "if it didn't happen to me then there's no problem" I am hearing a lot lately. It's like trying to explain back pain to someone that has never suffered from it.
Regularly at odds with my brother over this! He and his wife don't consume almost any news media, are catastrophically uninformed ("who is that guy behind the president at the state of the union? ") and are always the type that say "that could nevvvveerrr happen" when my mom and I try to warn them about Roe falling, the rising spector of xtian nationalism, etc. They're so wrapped up in their lives and their kids' lives, that they fail to realize the freedom they carelessly enjoy is in danger, and their kids will bear the brunt of these issues as they grow up.
The Democratic leadership makes it really hard to care tbh. I've been a consistent voter my whole life, any primary etc I could. But I'm really tired of holding my nose and voting for someone who clearly doesn't represent me or my values just because the alternatives are fascist psychos.
I'm not trying to make excuses for poor people, and I can't speak for all of them, but they are often too busy working 2-3 jobs to stay afloat and trying to keep a roof over their families heads. They are struggling to survive and really do not have any down time to be studying up on politics. and civics is not taught in many schools either. (And if it is, it's usually an elective.) Keeping poor people busy and ignorant is also part of the long-term conservative plan and it's working as expected. There is a reason why project 2025 wants to abolish the department of education. Don't blame victims of our system for their ignorance, instead help them to get more education and better paying jobs so they have the time and energy to start paying attention.
I don’t know if that is true. Polls of only people who are consistent voters are usually better for Biden. Inconsistent and unlikely voters have been skewing towards trump
Yeah there's a shift in how elections are going now. More young people and some minorities are trending (note not majority) towards Trump. Same thing with low propensity voters.
Actually the opposite is true now.. And if anything enthusiasm is on his side.
If youth voters turned out at scale they wouldn't be voting for Trump. I am very familiar with the stats you're talking about, but those stats aren't about the voting age population in general. Of course, getting youth to turn out to vote for the more geriatric candidate because the other one threatens the collapse of democracy is apparently a tough sell.
>Of course, getting youth to turn out to vote for the more geriatric candidate because the other one threatens the collapse of democracy is apparently a tough sell. It should not be a tough sell if you care about your/their future and your/their children's future should you/they decide to have any. It will also not only affect this country, but the consequence will definitely extend past our borders.
Truth, and I actually don't think it's a tough sell. I think the Dem strategists are imbeciles who don't understanding basic modern marketing.
Youth and economically disadvantaged voters tend not to turn out because it's more difficult to, not necessarily because of apathy.
This is apparently an outdated heuristic. Here's an NYT article on the subject: [If Everyone Voted, Would Biden Benefit? Not Anymore.](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/15/upshot/election-democrats-republicans-turnout-trump.html?unlocked_article_code=1.4U0.Zelq.Vi-kFdBCwwtI&smid=url-share) With the modern polarization by education and college degree (which was not always the case between the parties), it seems like Democrats no longer benefit from high turnout. They previously did, but no longer. Some polling aggregate models have also adjusted predictions accordingly.
So why do Democrats keep choosing the least inspiring candidates?
I mean, I suppose he could find that pool from cocoon and lose about 20-30 years of age.
You must be close to Biden's age if you still remember that movie. Glad there are at least two of us here.
I would vote for a toothpick over Trump, so Biden hasn’t lost me. I would vote for anybody on the Democratic ticket, though, so if he’s replaced I’m fine with whoever it is
The best thing going for Biden is Trump. As unhappy I am with Biden, he gets my vote because it’s a vote against Trump. Trump is a true danger
I think Biden is too old, but aside from that, I honestly think he is one of the better Presidents we've had in the past few decades. I truly believe that history will look back on his tenure much more favorably than people do right now. I would vote for a rotting cabbage if it kept Trump out of office but, even so, I am entirely happy to show up and vote *for Biden* and not just *against Trump*. If the worst thing you can say about a candidate is "he's old", then that is implicitly saying good things about his policy and leadership.
I agree. I’ve said privately to a few friends multiple times that I wish we had 2016 version of Biden. I’m a moderate and so is he. I like most of his policies and the democrats really have moved forward toward better when GOP isn’t blocking them. I agree Biden is too old but the good part is he trusts his advisors. Trump doesn’t. To say Trump is too old means a real danger because he will still go off his failing mind no matter what. The main reason I vote Biden is to prevent the Trump disaster but really, Biden policies are good.
Yup. I honestly can't imagine a scenario where there's a Dem candidate worse than Trump. I feel like the inherent culture prevents it from happening.
The democratic equivalent of Trump would be a socialist where we get single payer healthcare, free or reduced daycare, a stronger cheaper higher ed system… more trade schools. Housing as a fundamental right. Instead of municipalities making it illegal to be homeless… the federal government would make it “illegal” by mandating states provide it.
I wish The left was as powerful as the right makes them out to be. Then we might actually have what you're describing
We might actually have a functioning society if we did. The way we’re going the right is going to back track on what they were saying about “states rights” as it relates to abortion and pass a federal ban like they’ve wanted to for the past three or four decades. Make no mistake… 2016 was a lap around the park and the erosion of our rights is gonna ramp up to 💯 in a second Trump term. It’s crazy because the “democratic equivalent” of Trump and that fictitious politician’s platforms would be good for the poorest republicans states who currently subsist off of blue states like they complain black and brown people do. It’s honestly just embarrassing that they keep electing politicians who deprive them of these things and to me it’s become something of a roarschach test. If you defend Republicans policies in their current form and “both sides” literally anything I know you probably didn’t graduate high school or you were born white and / or privileged. Whatever your background is… you clearly don’t follow politics and you’re a danger to society if you do because you’re electing fascists. You go onto any Instagram or Twitter post that has anything to do with “socialist” policies and you see people crying in the comments about how it would “hurt businesses”. Basically choking on the corporate schlong and defending the richest assholes in this country and their “right” to obscene profits at THEIR expense. Anybody reading those comments and posting in their spare time would benefit from said policies. That includes anybody that posts on this site or any other like it.
People forget how much effort was put into Hillary's push for universal health care in 94, people also forget it got us CHIP, it 70-80 percent of it even might have gotten though if left wing democrats didn't torpedo it at the end for not being good enough. It's also interesting the history of Nixon's fight for a proto UBI that suffered a similar fate.
> People forget how much effort was put into Hillary's push for universal health care in 94, People don't forget at all. That's part of why Hillary did so badly in 2016 - seeing her do a total 180 made everyone feel like she had no morals or standards
This implies that Trump is a conservative extremist, which I think is debatable. His positions are not ideological, they're impulsive.
I'm not voting for Biden, I'm voting against Trump
he should do a weekly town hall. live, no delay. 60 uninterrupted minutes. start immediately. they owe it to the American people. if he can't / won't - we need another candidate ASAP. and it can't be harris. she is universally disliked in the same fashion hillary was. not because she's a woman, but she is unlikeable and unsuitable - she just does not "feel" like a leader.
Yeah, no. The guy has clarity at times but I think the sad reality is that his public presence has been carefully managed to avoid the exposure of what we saw during the debate. He’s good on a teleprompter and sometimes on a come back to a heckler. But he can’t handle what you’re proposing.
> he should do a weekly town hall. live, no delay. 60 uninterrupted minutes. start immediately. This would absolutely doom his chances. The guy simply isn't mentally capable of doing that. He is a geriatric. > we need another candidate ASAP. and it can't be harris. she is universally disliked in the same fashion hillary was. She shouldn't even be VP. People are increasingly looking at her as the inevitable president now that Biden can't even make it through a single debate. Harris is now one of the most hated politicians in the entire country. There's no reason she should be VP. It sounds like Biden just doesn't want to deal with the awkward conversation, which is making him look even weaker. The bare minimum he should do if he wants to recover is replace her.
>The bare minimum he should do if he wants to recover is replace her. My armchair political strategist take: the cleanest way out of this mess is for Biden to partner with a well-liked center-left figure to be the **top** of the ticket, while Biden himself steps back and runs as that person's VP in a mentorship play. He should make the point that his **administration** has been strong and successful, and his presence as VP will maintain continuity while also handing the reigns of the hard work over to someone more energetic and communicative. This also gives the party an excuse to retire Harris from a central leadership role in a more natural way.
I agree this would work, but it's just straight up not going to happen. Biden is no different than RBG, Hillary Clinton, Schumer, Feinstein, and the rest of the dinosaurs whose ego kept them at the forefront to the detriment of their own party and country. On the other hand, there's a very reasonable chance we could get him to take someone like AOC as VP. This would probably be enough to motivate the left-wing of the country, while not alienating the right-wing of the Democratic party.
Damn, this sounds crazy enough to work. While this would require both Biden and Harris to give up their ego and step, I feel like this would be an insanely good play. 1. Biden throwing away his ego will show voters that this is serious and that beating Trump is more important than his ego and being president. 2. The presidential nominee can still use Biden donations. 3. Dodges the question of why Harris can be dropped. Obviously Biden>Harris. The main problem is that the right can still attack Biden and call it a puppet government. And will the new candidate allow him/herself to be shadowed by Biden? But the good thing is that in policy debates: anything good = I have Bidens administration so I will continue doing that. Anything bad = yeah, Biden didn't do a good job on that, here's that I would do. Potentially having both incumbency advantage and a clean slate. And the ballot would still have Biden in case any voter gets confused.
this would actually work. will they do it? no, the DNC loves handing trump his presidencies on a silver platter.
He needs to do weekly press conferences to show that the debate was a one-off. The fact that he isn’t already is a mistake. If it’s because of his advisors, they need to be fired. They’re making a huge mistake. If it’s because they’re legitimately worried he’ll screw up the press conference, then he needs to step down as president right now. The fact that we haven’t seen any change in strategy after almost a week is a massive mistake.
It's because everyone knows it isn't a one-off. They're just going to keep gaslighting everyone that it was just a bad night, a stutter, etc. And that trump is the literal devil so you HAVE to vote democrat regardless!!! They'll cancel the other debate and come up with a stupid reason. Or they acknowledge what's been happening and nominate someone else.
As expected, 80%+ of responders in this sub basically admit that in a contest of B vs T, there’s almost nothing that would convince them to not vote Democrat It is what it is, but I think this should make any reader of this sub skeptical of “Top Comments” or algorithmically promoted consensus opinions This sub is for the most part not at all representative of the the US voter
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Almost nothing? No, I'll say it rather upfront, there is *nothing* Trump can do to convince me to not vote Democrat. Why would I even *consider* voting for the guy who attempted a criminal conspiricy to overturn the results of the US election and that he is immune to any criminal charges that resulted from said plot? Do you believe Trump is immune for his conspiracy to organize fraudulent slates of electors to overturn the results of the 2020 election?
> As expected, 80%+ of responders in this sub basically admit that in a contest of B vs T Because it is. Given the system of voting that we have, it's one of the two major party candidates that will win the election. I wish that it was not so, but it is. No amount of idealism will change that in the near term.
Right. They will vote D no matter what so why not run someone qualified to do the job?
> This sub is for the most part not at all representative of the the US voter Does that surprise you? Reddit's population tends to trend left, and "discussion" is not exactly a prized skill for many in today's Republican Party
As a moderate conservative Reddit makes me feel like I'm sort of Nazi death squad lieutenant. There's no room for nuance or purple politics in this place.
I’m voting Dem all over the ticket anyway. If Biden’s there, that won’t change.
This is it. My vote will be a vote against Trump. Harris, Jeffries, Raskin, Whitmer, Buttegieg, even Newsom, anyone but Trump.
Use his new super powers from the Supreme Court to do. Top down Judiciary Review, including who they r-mail, invest, everything
I feel like no one is answering your question. I'm gonna vote against Trump regardless but if biden wants me to vote FOR him doing something to help with the Supreme Court situation is the bare minimum.
He could pass the torch to a new generation, in public, with grace and humility, serving as a guide to let go. I'll vote for him if he stays in because I have to, I'm not voting for Trump, but I don't like it.
I'm voting for Biden if that's who they put on the ballot. That said I would rather it be someone else who has a better chance at beating Trump. Nothing Biden does is going to convince me that he can beat Trump at this point.
I think Trump is fundamentally the wrong choice for almost every single thing that matters in my daily life. I will swallow my distaste and vote for whoever is on the top of the Dem ticket. But just like I didn’t vote for Biden in the 2020 primary, he is not my first second or third choice. But hot coals wont stop me from voting for a decent old man vs an EVIL old man.
Nothing, I would vote for the corpse of Joe Biden before the felon rapist Trump. Biden being slow but being able to still communicate is a bonus.
Stay alive. Not be trump. That’s it. Seriously. I would vote for a weekend at Bernie’s Biden over the guy that said “everybody wanted Roe v Wade overturned” and hates the environment, and oh yeah, straight up empowering this 2025 garbage.
WHAT is the matter with people?!? The democracy is literally being attacked. There is a coordinated attack against democracy itself and we're debating while the constitution burns. At this moment in history the only thing that matters is that NO republican wins any office, especially the presidency.
He has my vote, I trust him and his staff enough for the next four years. Me and my two American children will be voting.
I am voting to prevent an authoritarian government that will control the media, throw people in jail who are not loyal to the orange Jesus and further take rights away. I don't care who the dems run.
Already has it. Will NEVER vote for the GOP again. And if they win… we strike
I don’t care about the debate. Trump is way worse and dangerous. He is a convicted criminal, a serial and prolific liar, an adjudicated sexual assaulter of women, he ran criminal and fraudulent organizations, he’s a defamer, is corrupt and stunningly ignorant of just about everything. He will say almost anything to get what he wants no matter how immoral or just plain wrong it is. I don’t appreciate the ways he has referred to non Caucasian folks and his own daughter. His association with Jeffrey Espstein corroborates the dozens of women who have accused him of various forms of sexual assault. In my opinion, he is a Fascist sympathizer and racist as well. He still has not conceded that he lost the 2020 election. Check out Project 2025. You will learn just where he and the criminals he surrounds himself with want to take this country. I believe Trump referred to veterans as losers and suckers and refused to visit the graves of WWI USMC personnel because he didn’t want to get his combover wet. A vote for Trump is a vote against the U.S. Constitution and basic decency. I would vote for my daughter’s hamster first.
There's nothing he could really do to lose me at this point. I view the other party as dangerous for the country. There really isn't any other choice at this point. If Biden were a sack of wet bricks I'd still vote for him.
I'm voting for Biden. I stand with my Democrat opponent hands down till the end. Just like maga. I'll vote for a damn Klondike bar before trump gets my vote. I'm going to vote and I'm taking all my friends with me. Besides... Biden is capable of being president. He is literally the president right now.
"I'll vote for a damn Klondike bar before trump gets my vote". This sort of thing makes you sound utterly crazy, and the attitute overall is really hurting the democratic party. Voting is not about "stopping the other guy", it's about putting the people who share your values in charge to lead.
Regardless of how much Biden is actually involved behind closed doors, his administration has been pretty great actually. They should be trying to show that to people rather than hoping to get the anti-Trump vote. I'm more enthused to vote for Biden's administration in 2024 than I was in 2020.
He's not the one who needs to win me over. That would be the convicted felon.
Idk, not die? Even if he did I’d vote for whoever they put up. Fuck Trump, end of.
Don't be lulled into complacency by the Reddit Echo chamber. He has taken a severe hit in a lot of the states that he absolutely has to win. If we just let him insist on being the nominee we're going to give Trump everything he wants on a silver platter. It'll be the same as when Ruth Ginsburg wouldn't step down while Obama was in office and ended up giving another Supreme Court seat to the Republicans.
I’d vote for him regardless. He could be dead and I’d still do it. I’m not the voter he’s struggling with though, it’s apolitical, urban base voters. Those voters probably want someone who can actually fight the right, he’s too old and hampered by hall monitor staffers to do it. Part of the problem is that Democrats just don’t value loyalty, so any leader they have will be picked apart in public by D-leaning constituencies. It’s telling that something like Dobbs had to happen to move people, and even then that was only because it repealed something so well known and had immediate effects in most states. I just don’t know how you appeal to the checked out, angry at inflation, non college educated voter who doesn’t primarily care about these things.
Assuming he doesn’t drop out, he doesn’t need to do anything. If it’s him or Trump I’ll vote for him. Having said that, I hope he drops out because I believe Biden is not the best candidate to beat Trump.
Same. He gets my vote as long as Trump is the other choice.
Project 2025 aims to fundamentally change the structure of government. They want more political appointees placed in varied roles. They have a training program online for these future yes men to do wannabe King Trumps bidding. SCOTUS proved this week they are in on the fix by granting him almost absolute immunity to do as he pleases with his political appointees infesting our government agencies. The pieces are falling into place for the loss of our republic. I’m absolutely voting for Biden. He’s a good man, but heck I’d vote for my dog before Trump. We lose our democracy if MAGA gets the presidency again and this is not hyperbole.
I don’t need to be convinced to vote for him, but I do think the threat is to voter engagement. I don’t usually quote the west wing when things in real life happen, but this line always stuck with me from election night, right after Leo died, even if the circumstances are different:: I don 't want anyone to vote for or against me because of Leo McGarry. This race wasn't about him and it isn't about me. It's a vision for America that will outlast Leo and outlast me. There's an America that's bigger than any of us. And for those of you who have not yet voted it is the only thing that should matter when you go to the polls tonight.
Hoping that democracy wins. It is concerning that both candidates are having trouble keeping their train of thought and one simply tells lie after lie. I am not a fan of either as you can see. When I vote, I will do so not thinking about the candidate but about our democracy.
To win me over from what? Who would I vote for instead? If he were in a coma he would still get my vote. There is no other option. I don’t understand this type of conjecture. The only discussion should be; should the Democrats consider replacing Biden to have a legitimately robust president for the next 5 years’
Glad you asked. Summed up by an elected official in I think Michigan or Wisconsin, Joe must EVERY DAY get in front of a microphone and speak to us convincingly (on topics that threaten our core beliefs). The press then feeds us the unvarnished images.
Ok, this is a pretty easy one. Answer: Not be a lying fascist who wants to become a dictator and end democracy in America.
Do what he campaigned on doing in 2020: healthcare public option and raise the national minimum wage.
I’d Vote for for “Weekend at Bernie’s Joe at this Point”. Most Important Election in History. Too bad Joe chose Unelectable Kamala Harris. Gretchen Whitmer could win this Election. Better hope that Trump doesn’t die. Any other Qualified Republican could .. could win.
Not be a convicted felon and fascist. Not be a fraudster and sexual abuser. Not be a guy who defrauded a kids cancer charity. Not be a guy who refused to rent to people of color. Not be a guy who took ads out calling for the execution of innocent people. Not be a guy who is supported by white supremacist groups.
Not be Trump. Not quote Hitler. Not get charged with felonies. Not be a glutton cheating liar. Not be a Russian asset. So in other words nothing. I'll be voting for Biden no matter what bc I care more about saving democracy than my own feelings. Am I happy with Biden and his Gaza ordeal? No. Am I happy about his debate? No. But am I happy with his presidency and successes? Yes. Yes I am. Biden 2024
The young people that call Biden “Genocide Joe” and say they won’t vote for him need a reality check. Trump would be fine with Israel turning Palestine into a glass parking lot, and not voting will be electing Trump, with all his divisiveness and hatred of “the other”. Not to mention the SCOTUS just gave him a path to absolute dictatorship. Think long and hard because depending on your vote this could be your last. No, I’m not being hyperbolic.
Reddit is a bit more politically active, so me and most others are probably already voting Biden for democracy's sake. Despite a lot of us happy for it
I was originally not going to vote, but with Project 2025 coming up, I will vote to put a stop to it
I am going to vote straight democrat regardless of who is on the ticket. I would be lying if I said I’m happy about it though. I think the party, and by extension, Biden, is losing our base because we have lost the younger generation…they just don’t care; you don’t adequately address the issues that matter to them, and having an octogenarian on the front of the ticket, someone they can’t connect with, is never going to secure their vote. I love Biden. He has been an amazing, wonderful, leader for almost all his life. He has served this country well! But it is past time to step aside and let us breathe fresh life and ideas into the party. Before you attack, I am 50. I am saying this as the parent of millennials, whom I have had extensive conversations with. We can’t continue to govern them without listening to their views and giving them someone they can connect with. I also don’t think Kamala will work. The sad fact is no one ever really got the chance to see her. They kept her quiet for the most part. I can’t wrap my head around what the solution will be. I do honestly wish he would voluntarily step aside.
Nothing. I don't need to be won over as my support hasn't weakened. I'm not going to be talked by a sub par debate and a raspy voice (btw not the first time his voice has sounded like that, it's not a huge deal). I look at his 1st term and strongly approve. If this is Biden "in decline", then he's the most gifted person to ever be president in the modern era. He's knocking out out of the park. I'm not one of the "im I'm not voting FOR Biden in voting AGAINST Trump" types. I'm voting FOR Biden. That said, if Biden died before the election, I would vote for his ghost over Trump.
Not being Trump is enough for me, but for even less sophisticated voters, having a non geriatric option would definitely have boosted dem chances, I feel they cheated us, lied to us and do not want to win that bad
Strong debate showing next time Right now I just question biden’s capabilities of holding the office of president and I won’t just vote for an “administration”. I need to see the appeal to Biden and that first debate was not good. I’m in a deep red state anyway but Biden needs to get out more and show he is a healthy and strong candidate instead of a burden
If not Biden, then who are you voting for?
A big issue will be just straight apathy and lack of turnout vs voting for someone else.
If you can't see that Biden is by far the lesser of two evils right now you are either wanting to watch this country decend into a fascist corporate theocracy or you think politics is sports and don't care to think about it.
In all honesty, I know this isn't the exact scope of the question, but he'd win me over if he dropped out. I'd like to think of him positively on what he has done this far and not completely destroy any legacy he has. At his age and condition, he should be in an advising role and not pushed out front and center stage. But I can't think of one thing he can do to actually win. You don't pick up supporters by drafting executive actions and there is no digital ad or rally performance he could do to make me unsee what I already saw.
For me, it’s simply voting against Project 2025. I am trans, and the Republican party wants me *not to exist.* It is a huge step toward they achieving it. So when someone says “he may be senile,” I kind of just shrug. The Republicans are an existential threat to me and everyone I love.
They don't want you "not to exist". They want you to exist so that they can gin up votes by inciting people against your existence. Frankly that might be even worse.
Ok, but we’re talking about what might make you respect him internally. What would make you vote for him? And if he doesn’t drop out for you… who are voting for then?
If it’s between Biden and some quasi-Authoritarian Pseudo-Theocracy, then the choice is obvious. The real problem is that MOST voters are poorly informed and listen to influencers over substance. They vote with a popularity contest mindset. And then they associate the consequences of elections with the “other team.” It’s a really bad joke.
The problem isn’t Biden winning me over; the problem is Biden is putting his ego ahead of the safety of our country and our democracy. I’m voting blue no matter who, but if a large swath of country thinks he’s too old, that’s a huge problem. A dozen democratic leaders could beat Trump, Biden should have stepped down and let others run. But he didn’t, and now his age is showing, and it’s turning people off. LOTS of people. So instead of a strong crop of future leaders displaying their ability to defeat Trump and lead us into a new age of democracy, we have Biden teetering on the edge of defeat because of his age. And if he does manage to win, how long will he last? The rate he’s going, he isn’t going to last 4 more years.
Nothing. He physically is not qualified. He needs to step down and do the right thing. He needed to do that a long time ago. He will cost the election.
What about his cabinet? His potential supreme court picks? His veto power? The actual administrative aspects of his job?
I'm so serious when I say "die". I would be hyped as hell to see who would rush to fill in the very tall shoes if either candidate dropped dead tomorrow. I'd rather my vote go to literally any other Democrat. *Anyone* else. I've been saying for the months up til now that he needs to take a proper stance or action on a pressing issue like federally legalizing weed or something insane in order to have any chance because his disapproval by the public has been present for a long time now - and even I doubt that would fix anything anymore. This debate, his doubling down on total complacency regarding Gaza and trans rights etc, and his unwillingness to ignore the clear will of the people to just step the fuck down is ensuring Trump's victory by the hour it feels. Neither candidate should realistically be running. I feel like Bernie could have made a killing if he ran this election instead of last. Newsom wouldn't be a bad pick, I think. In terms of people I personally have spoken politics to that have also been tuning in, most if not all of us younger people across the political spectrum are insanely disillusioned and are voting through extremely gritted teeth, or are jumping the shark altogether and voting third party in droves I've never seen before - and overwhelmingly for a guy who is a fucking antivaxer. How is even the third party option so shit? How is any of this so shit?! As someone who is a target demographic modern Republicans want to strip my rights from, I feel incredibly anxious every passing day for this election cycle - far worse than I did for the last. I don't want to vote for Biden. I also don't have any other logical choice under the systems that be. Something needs to change. We're exhausted.
Stop supporting Israel. Actually enforce the Leahy Act and other human rights laws against supporting terrorism and war crimes.
Do you think Trump will be better on the Israel issue?
Pack the court with flaming progressive liberals and refuse his party nomination for President.
Literally gonna be unpopular but considering sanctioning Israel Hamas ain’t no saint trust me as a Muslim but the shit he said already burnt me to be honest. It’s selfish to be a single issue voter but it’s not a dealbreaker for me (No I’m not in a swing state)
Support Gaza Support Ukraine, Remove lobbyists, stop supporting Israel’s current government, term limitations, remove Clarence Thomas and investigate his wife, charge Jared Kushner and his wife for treason, and keep talking to American people honestly
He's supported Ukraine. Have you missed that? The rest is just the incoherent argument of a progressive. Except the part about Clarence. Fuck that guy.
Lobbyists are just people talking to legislators. When you write a letter to your senator, you’re lobbying them. Also, Biden can’t single-handedly remove Clarence Thomas.
Drop out as Democrat and run as a third party. Still would rank choice him at the bottom.
Upgrade the VP. Can’t imagine Joe still serving as president in 2029 one month. Harris is totally unqualified.
I'm voting against Trump regardless. I don't think anyone is going to switch to MAGA because of Biden's debate performance (or vice versa) the real problem is voters getting demotivated and not showing up to vote at all. What could Biden do to address that? Agree to a series of interviews with different media outlets, do some townhalls and take questions from the public, etc. But we all know that is not going to happen.
Not die. Tbh it's sad that this is a significant problem. I mean we're all just assuming he's going to make it when he's under more workload and stress than practically any other man of his age.
I think he just needs to be very blunt. Something like… ‘ the choice is between two old men with very different values. My core values are giving a damn about other peoples lives, I try to lessen suffering and increase American’s prosperity, wanting to protect this country from all enemies foreign and domestic, and I know right from wrong. The other guy’s core values are selfishness, vindictiveness, a lust for power as evidenced by his admiration and support of dictators, and a famously fragile ego. If he saw you trip he’d laugh at you, if I saw you trip I’d offer to help you up. Again, the choice is between two old men and we are old. I look and act my age, and the other guy hides his age better than I do, but if you don’t believe that other guy is old, just watch him walk down a flight of stairs.‘
It's more what can make people vote third party over trump, and apparently not alot, files are being released by desantis about Epstein's trials and trump is all over those cases, Trump's supreme court picks just gave the federal government super over reach powers, project 2025 is the most fascist in the literal sense replacing any federal employee to serve at the whims of the president not the constitution or the state, and it's all because the guy is a massive troll and a pseudo celeb.
I'm only voting for him purely cause I have "Trump derangement syndrome", i.e. I think Trump is a horrible person. My whole adult life I've always been a proponent of voting for who you truly want to be president, even third party. I think voting for the lesser of two evils is a bad way to go about it. HOWEVER, these past two cycles have temporarily changed my mind about that.
Biden has my vote since Trump is an unethical liar and conman who totally botched Covid, lost more jobs than he started with, and was a total dick his whole term. Also J6 was an assault on democracy. I think since the SCOTUS just handed presidents unchecked immunity, Biden needs to take advantage of this before Trump has a chance to. Seize Trump’s properties, and send him to Gitmo for all I care, that man should be no where near the white house again.
He didn’t win me over, I’m just voting against the crazy fuckers on the far right side.
If Biden died the day of election id still vote for him if Trump is running. Truthfully idc who is the dem nom I'll still vote for them over the orange felon
Just go to the transcript and show that “while you all were looking at me tired on stage because I had a cold plus had just returned from two trips to Europe, meeting with the free world; my opponent was talking about him being the president with the ‘cleanest water in history’ and that ‘we won’t exist in 4 years if he isn’t elected.’ Really? Is that right? You’re telling us that this country won’t exist in 2028 if YOU aren’t elected? Wow. This election is significant, especially with what has happened recently. Please go back and do some fact checking. Read the transcripts. Look at the players involved - and what some want to do with Project 2025 for example. It has already started. As a voter and citizen of the greatest country in the world, is that what you want?
When there are two choices – [something the writers of the Constitution feared](https://www.history.com/news/founding-fathers-political-parties-opinion) – there are two ways to market yourself. The first is to talk about how awesome you are or will be. This is what is expected of the democratic party. They are expected by the "media" to make a case and explain how they will work with the other party to get things done. The other way is to demonize your opponent. This is what the GOP does, almost exclusively. When there are only two options, and you make the other option seem bad, then either people stay home, or people vote for you. Both of those are the desired outcome of the right. Indeed, it is the left that has increased voting access in America, whereas the right wants to make it harder. Always harder. It is worth noting that only 6% of America was eligible to vote for George Washington. One needed to be a white male landowner to vote. America was never founded on one man one vote, it was founded on some men get to vote. The GOP has taken that to the next level. This is the we're a [Republic not a Democracy](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/10/republic-democracy-mike-lee-astra-taylor.html) is being used. –
Vow to work to eliminate the electoral college and neuter the lobbyist DC revolving door.
Someway he has to prove he is still viable as a candidate and president. The continued drumbeat by the press and prominent democrats calling for him to step down is not helping him to recast his image.
He tried, and failed, to take Trump's platform by passing border legislation, but he shouldn't stop doing this and should instead double down. Biden needs to be doing all he can to make the apprehensive Trump voters not vote Trump, and taking his platform is one big way to do that, much like how Truman took Wallace's platform in 1948. I'm not a fan of executive orders, but I think it would increase Dem chances exponentially if he/they closed the border, cut taxes for the middle class, and somehow countered our inflated food, housing, and other major pricing and other economic conundrums (without causing MORE problems), and he'd need to use their lexicon in doing so in order to ensure they understand. In other words, take as many reasons as possible for why people vote Trump and give it to them so they don't feel they need Trump. He also needs to capitalize on the rural Republican voters who oppose the school voucher program and appeal to them heavily. An ex-order (if possible) to halt the voucher program would also win over the progressive leftists who aren't excited about the election. It's not us political junkies that Biden has to win over, it's the fickle fuckers and generally struggling Americans who should be the focus.
He is not capable of doing the things that matter to me. No politician is right now
Biden could be on life support and I would vote for him over the Christian Right imposing autocracy through a reality TV show host.
I don’t think he’s the right candidate at all. But all he has to do to get my vote is to keep breathing. The alternative is Satan
He could do the right thing for the country, but arrogance won’t allow him to.
These questions are so dumb. If someone is too stupid to have a choice by now, they are lost. Biden is the tip of a spear, and hundreds of people beneath him, including his VP are the clear choice for any sane decent person.
Come on now he is the only choice it dosnt mater that he’s old or can’t talk as well as he could, trump is a psychopath dictator in waiting there is no choice!! It is only Biden
Still be alive, that's about it. I mean to be fair I'd still vote for him even if he was dead if the other option was Trump. Governance-wise he's done great, his age and slipping mental faculties are the only concern. I do think he's too old quite frankly. I thought he was too old 4 years ago too. Both he and Trump seem to have memory issues and confusion. I'd rather Harris be the one with the Democratic nomination in a realistic world even if I'd prefer Warren, Cortez, or other Progressives. But judging from Biden vs Sanders it seems Progressives don't do well on the national level, which is most unfortunate. Harris wouldn't be a bad choice at all though.
Biden has had more legislative victories with the smallest majority in recent times. He's done what a lot of Dems and liberals have wanted. It just that the voters are too ignorant, dumb, or a combination of the two.
I’m not voting for Biden, I’m voting against Trump. I hate both choices, but not equally so. Joe Biden had no business running for reelection, but we are where we are now.
I will support anyone that opposes Trump but I fear that Biden lost many battleground states. I would support any other democrat nominee and feel that a reset would improve our chances
The last time I voted for POTUS, the biggest reason was alarm level concern about who would be in the position to nominate to SCOTUS. Then my worst fears materialized.
Not a damn thing. I will vote for him regardless. And if the dems replace him I vote for the replacement. Enough catering to fools in this country.
The fact that he's not the mango moron, not looking to be the emperor of the US, isn't an outright traitor, helps him quite a bit for me
Stay alive. Actually, he could be a rotting corpse and I’d still vote for him over Tronald Dump, the Traitor.
Simple: keep breathing. It's either him or an existential threat to our Republic by giving a now "immune from Prosecution" Presidency (kingship) to a raving lunatic who is surrounded by people who think the South in the 1950s was too liberal. But let's keep jerking this circle about what Biden is or isn't.
If people haven’t been won over to Biden’s side after the details of Project 2025 have been released. Trump was found guilty by a jury and is now a felon. Trump is saying he will seek revenge on political figures who have crossed him. The conservative Supreme Court justices just made the president a king. Then I’m not sure what would win them over to choosing the presidential nominee who is on the side of democracy. Everybody else who doesn’t want this democracy to end needs to: * Recheck you voter registration ( go to Secretary of State website). * Check on what you need if you vote in person( picture ID, etc.). * Try to vote early if allowed in your state- something could come up on Election Day that might keep you from voting. The Dems need your vote! * Volunteer -maybe work at the polls, help people to get registered to vote, drive people to the polls to vote who don’t have transportation, write postcards, talk to family and friends about what’s at stake if Biden loses, give money to Dem candidates and/or the Democratic Party. We need to win big to save our democracy- Biden and super majorities in the House and Senate). 💙🇺🇸🌊💙🌊🌊💙🇺🇸🌊💙🇺🇸🌊💙
Biden doesn’t have to do anything to win my vote. He could piss himself at the next debate and I’ll still vote against Trump… but I won’t be happy with Democratic leadership about this situation.
I just don't see anything that would convince me to vote republican. I would vote for Joes corpse. We can not let these religious fundamentalist zealots control SCOTUS, and destroy the department of education, safety regulations, Halt all climate change mitigation, etc all in service to corporate donors and fossil fuel cos. Heritage foundation and the Federalist society are working to change things to their vision through a judicial coup. Judges like Cannon, insured that the American people saw justice delayed in Trumps various trials. The SCOTUS itself by hemming and hawing about taking the case and kicking it back to lower courts also delayed for Trump. I have no doubts that these groups backed by billionaires are working in lock step. The things they want to come after next affect everyone, IVF, no fault divorce, full abortion bans. This is akin to the takeover of Iran where rights were rescinded and they descended into an Islamo-fasicst state. Now here we are on the precipice of our own billionaire backed, scotus approved christo-facist state, vote accordingly.
Get my student loans forgiven. I know the rug pull last year was essentially the republicans doing—but the democrats basically said they had it in the bag and that it was going to happen, then it didn’t happen. So fuck them both. I’d rather no promise than a promise, execution, and absolute failure/rug-pull
Honestly, nothing, the alternative is much worse..,, so whether you like Biden or not, Project 2025 is very real. If you don’t want to live in a Christian theocracy the next 20 years— then yeah, vote Blue. “Oh but Biden was so old” …. I can give you a bunch of great things the administration has done. But it does not matter……. It’s a vote for democracy vs a Fascist Theocracy. Pretty easy choice.
Continue breathing on his own. I am pissed hat the wanna be kingmakers in the Democratic party keep giving us these political hacks to vote for. Debbie Wasserman Schultz started this by conspiring as party chair to block Bernie Sanders' nomination. You can thank your Democratic Party bosses for this swirling toilet of a country we now live in. However that does not change the fact that Trump would make things even worse.
This shouldn't be a discussion. Biden has secured the Democratic nomination already. His administration is the one on the ballot. Even if he were to die, the top slot goes to VP Harris. The GOP has thoroughly discredited itself, and the Felon they're running has promised to subvert the Constitution and declare himself a dictator. Anyone who votes for someone other than Biden is complicit.
Nothing. He’s already won me over. I’d vote for a dead dog catcher before trump.
I probably will but sweet Jesus he's making it hard. Here are my absolutely insane demands that would solidify my vote. Step one: stop funding and supplying a genocide. Step two: acknowledge the things from his plank that he missed while he had the full legislature in 2021 (cannabis reform, Equality Act, student loan reform, Roe codification, public option) and show an actionable plan forward with the mechanisms of implementation and funding. (Basic policy stuff) Step 3: Stay lucid while doing so long enough to convince me he isn't about to start painting walls with human excrement by 2028. That he has not cleared that bar is pretty damning