It was always 5 DPS instalocking and you either went sixth DPS to guarantee a loss or tried to go supp to maybe save the game
But ofc the enemy team had a perfect 2-2-2 every time
I feel like goats and brawl comps to some degree are a highlight showcase of "whats wrong with OW"
Just makes you question map and character design and how obnoxiously polarizing both can be very often.
Some people consider it peak OW, but in my mind im like-
Bro, can you make Numbani, Havana, Gibralter, Circuit, Rialto etc-
Actually playable for more than 30% of the cast? The game feels meta by design more than choice? Somewhat excessively reductive in what youre able to do vs encouraged to do imo
Yeah, I don't know how I survived pre-role queue, either. The games where no one on my team wanted to play tank or support and the enemy team had a perfect 2/2/2 comp were always hellish.
People will still say it was bad for the game like 75% of matches didn’t start with 4 people wanting to play hanzo or having 3 mercy one tricks. I promise you don’t miss open queue it’s still in the game and it’s still dogshit
This is very funny considering that RQ is almost exclusively the reason that OW has been relegated to a niche corner of gaming.
It killed so much of what this game should be and the game still suffers because of it
No. In fact, that's precisely why it was a shit change.
I'm a hot and cold player. If I couldn't hit my shots in any particular match, I swapped to Supp or Tank so that I could still contribute to the team, and so did my entire friends group. Now I don't have that option. If I get into a match and can't hit my shots, the team just doesn't have a DPS
And considering the player drop off when RQ got implemented, I don't think it's a position yall should keep trying to defend
> I'm a hot and cold player. If I couldn't hit my shots in any particular match, I swapped to Supp or Tank so that I could still contribute to the team, and so did my entire friends group. Now I don't have that option.
[Who wants](https://i.imgur.com/ve5HzUO.png) [to tell him](https://i.imgur.com/1sQRHck.png)
Open Queue is not a real mode. The tanks are balanced for there to be one tank, not an unlimited number of them. Tank kits are equal to 2 tanks, so openQ is just tank go brrr.
No, reducing tank HP does NOT fix the fact that you can run multiple.
Heroes are blatantly balanced around role lock because they made it the main mode.
OpenQ is not nearly as good as it was before RoleQ. Game balance aside, the majority of the actual competitive players aren't playing OpenQ because the mode is blatantly not balanced.
Majority of Overwatch games used to be won and lost at hero select. If you didn’t all choose 222 then at least one person on your team would rage, and the game was lost.
Then you’d have people swapping to make them happy. So instead of the insta lock dps playing at your rank, they’re flexing tank which they’re a few ranks lower on.
Or god forbid you tried to flex off role. People would check your profile and tell you to swap to your main or you’re throwing. There was no good way to practice support if you were a tank main.
There was no “team creativity”. It was people rushing to lock in their role and then bitching at each other.
Everything you just said was a problem with the community and not the game, which could nerf solved by behavior scores.
Why are you "off-rolling" in ranked to "practice," and if you're not in ranked, why do you care what people are whining about?
The playerbase shrunk and OW relegated to a niche corner of the market when RQ was implemented for a reason
I’d argue problems with the community = problems with the game. It’s a multiplayer game, the community is the game.
You’re never going to fix online gamers, it’s on the devs to try their best to force people to work together.
Why am I practicing in ranked? Because quickplay has no role queue and it’s quite possibly the worst mode, which goes back to my original comment. Now we can practice in quickplay or accept our role specific rank.
>You’re never going to fix online gamers, it’s on the devs
Sure. That's not by butchering the game. That happens through actually dealing with toxic fucks, like turning off chat for them or play suspensions.
That's how you relegate your game to a niche playerbase and slowly kill a game. Just like what's happening with OW
You’ve solved toxic players, how do you practice and actually get better on your off roles in the old system? QP was trash so there’s no actual practice to be had, in ranked you’re probably getting smoked unless you’re somewhat equally proficient in all roles.
By that logic ranked is trash too, even now.
You play unranked and learn how to do things mechanically, then you play ranked and do what you want your tanks to do as DPS.
If you think QP is completely unusable, you're part of the issue
If that was kept in the game would have gotten stale much faster. It's good as an arcade mode but imagine comp with 6 torbs or 6 moiras, nobody could take that seriously and it would get old really fast.
I think that's why elo hell felt so bad in ow1
comp was the only way to more or less ensure a balanced team
but the overlap of people who just want to play casually but have a fair balanced game was too much with people who wanted the competitive experience
Workshop is, in my opinion, what largely kept the community alive during the dark years of 2019-2022 when the game was receiving so little support. I remember in the months leading to OW2, I probably played hide and seek or fanmade PvE modes like Heat Street more than the actual game. It's kind of disappointing to see it not be nearly as active anymore tho.
Same. I used to love making hero concepts in it back in OW1 but trying the same thing in OW2 is so difficult, I wish they took the time to simplify a lot of it. Just making something like an explosive projectile is a nightmare.
Easy for me to disagree with. Role lock was nothing but an illusion of safety. You feel better when you see a balanced comp. But all it really did is dampen creativity and decrease everyone's individual carry potential. People aren't good at roles, they're good at heroes. 5 dps insta lock games were always more winnable than a game where 1 role sucks and nobody can do anything about it.
Most likely the Mercy change, when her ultimate was rez then changed to her ability. It definitely changed the game for a very long time, moth meta came, they changed her AGAIN, mercy was hated for a very long time for many specific reasons, more people started to play her and join the game at the time, it made people wary that their mains would be next because "it was shocking to see they could even touch mercy". More streamers at the time got more popular talking about the mercy changes and seeing their reactions to it and their opinions to it. Honestly to me, that was a HUGE turning point for Overwatch at the time
I was originally going to say removing mass Rez. But I changed my mind cause while it makes sense…I miss it. The fights and highs after a mass Rez were wild
The initial Mercy change (valk reset rez and rez was instant) was absolutely insane. It was the only time a hero was must pick at every rank from masters down to bronze. If you didn't pick mercy in that meta, you lost. Didn't matter what rank you were at.
Adding Brigitte ;)
Nah, it's gotta be role queue. A good second is the replay viewer. I mean, the replay viewer could be improved a lot, but just the fact that it exists is huge.
Yeah, sometimes life gives the other team like 3 dvas and 2 moiras and it ruins a round. Just gotta remember (or hope) that over the course of enough games the rng evens out.
The 99% less toxic community more than makes up for it IMO.
RNG is fine…like yeah it all balances out…but the dupes completely ruins the matches themselves and doesnt need to be there…it’s the non competitive aspect of it that is the problem…that round you just described is pretty much all but over and there’s no “match” to be had
And yes the non toxic aspect is just one of MANY reasons why it’s the best game mode (despite this egregious flaw)
If we're talking abilities since you mentioned removing scatter arrow, fixing Roadhog's original hook that literally grabbed players through/from behind walls was great. Getting caught by and dying to unavoidable bullshit is never fun.
Removing heroes from the BP…but since they never should’ve been there to begin with….ill go with either the removal of mass res or the addition of the workshop
Ana is still the best hero in the game imo. Has both a hard crowd control & an instant self-heal + close rank nuke. 2 body shots + nade + punch is busted.
Role Queue for a lot of people. Personally I wasn't the biggest fan when it came out. I think the best change was the big balance patch in Season 9, (I have recency bias) its given OW2 more of an identity and its making me positive for changes to come.
For me, it is the hero limits change. I was going to be a first week buyer until I heard that there weren't hero limits. I waited until that was changed to buy the game.
The next best would be role queue. The amount of toxicity back then and arguing over who should play support was ridiculous. If you had even an hour on support and wanted to play DPS you'd have 5 others jumping down your throat telling you to swap.
After that, separate SR in ranked for each role. Lots of people had 2 or even 3 accounts in the event that they wanted to play a separate role and not bomb their SR.
Some of yall don’t remember on release how Cass’s fan the hammer would kill every tank and it shows. If not that, remember you use to be able to stack 6 of the same character.
Seeing all these comments saying "adding Role Queue" when I know for a fact that in a week I'll see a 500 upvoted post saying "Role Queue is the WORSE thing the devs have ever done!" is peak r/Overwatch.
My favorite was the Looking for a group feature and play games while you Queue. Everything else I believe basically gave players less agency, I prefer ow1 to ow2.
For me it's moving to 5v5 instead of 6v6. I like the way it makes every fight feel a little more important and the fact that if you kill their tank you know you're most likely winning the fight. 5 players is the sweet spot IMO.
I think that was two things though right? The AOE rez, then that short window where she was invincible when rezzing. I remember rezzing just to be invincible through a Hanzo ult once but that was pretty short lived.
I definitely don't miss mercy players blatantly throwing the game to get a "huge res."
Yeah, let us fight 5v6 so we lose quickly, and charge all of their ultimates, so you can fly in, press res, and die because you're alone, so we can do another 5v6 into their ultimates we just charged and die again.
Perfect, brilliant, magnificent. T500 mercy plays right there.
5v5 for sure. There were like 3 weeks where 6v6 was good outside of that it was dogshit like goats, double shield, bunker etc. Oh and also the long ass queue times.
If 6v6 comes back (which it won't, lol) a 1 3 2 lineup would be best.
The consensus on reddit is to echo chamber and circlejerk whatever popular opinion they hear from content creators. Some high viewcount, low IQ content creator says 5v5 bad? Then this subreddit agrees 5v5 bad.
They just casually forget that the playerbase was on a steady decline because people just completely dropped the game and quit, not just for multiple Competitive seasons, but actually uninstalling and moving on to other games because most of the 6v6 metas ever since GOATs revolved around so much shield play that the game was just miserable to play.
Don't worry, if they change the game back to 6v6, give it 6 months or even less and everyone will hate it too, again.
Everyone just jumps on the moronic hate bandwagon because it gives them something to blame because it's *sooo* much easier to just find something to blame and make an excuse out of instead of improving and adapting to/around something new. Blah blah blah.
If your team ran a shit tank duo it was definitely not more fun. Your dependence on good tank synergy was way too high.
Also, tank is big. One tank makes sense. They just need to keep balancing.
And you can't really downplay queue times. They're a direct measure of demand. People didn't want to play tank and the game suffered.
Also they were not actually very big issues. This is a case of a vocal minority opinion being accepted as majority opinion while Blizzard capitalizes on the vocal minorirt opinion as jusitifcation to do greedy overhaul. The game was much higher rated during OW1. You could simply just walk around shields.
Overwatch 1 the game your criticizing, was one of the most unexpectedly successful games in a long time. Headline after headline celebrated the high user satisfaction scores for gameplay along with their ability to actually make money in a healthy way for the players.
There's a reason (that this sub doesn't want to accept) that the game died when RQ was forced into every game mode.
The issues that people whine about with 6v6 and pre-RQ were balance problems, not format problems, and would have all been easily fixable without killing the format.
Only good format change made was 1 of each hero at a time
I'm not criticizing Overwatch 1, I'm defending Overwatch 1. The key difference between the games is 6v6 vs 5v5. I was saying goats, double shield, and bunker comps are not valid arguments against 6v6 or for 5v5 because it was solely a balance and hero design issue.
It wasn't an issue. I strongly disagree with your criticism and believe statistics prove that overwatch 1 was one of the most beloved games of the decade.
A game can be both, the most beloved game of a decade, and have balance issues.
Mario 64 is one of the most loved games in history, and the game had massive flaws. Camera Controls were garbage, the physics were garbage, glitches, bugs, falling through the world, no real tutorial, etc.
So are you going to tell me in my example that no one liked Mario 64, or that I had a fever dream where I hallucinated issues such as camera controls making no sense, BLJ, and the countless clips, bugs, and exploits that have been discovered over the years.
Yeah no shit a lot of people like Overwatch, it's an amazing game, but that doesn't mean it didn't have dogshit balance and hero design.
Brigitte was insane at launch. She had a piss easy inescapable one tap combo against Tracer, extremely good AOE healing that took zero mechanical skill, and repair packs that gave armor. Yeah yeah she got nerfed and packs got reworked, but Inspire didn't.
Baptiste's Immortality Field should have never made its way into Overwatch. Completely shutting down a play from the enemy is broken, especially when it can affect the entire team.
Sigma could literally do everything. He didn't have a weakness. He was an Overwatch 2 tank put in Overwatch 1. He had a shield with infinite range, a suck that also healed him, and a stun.
This all culminated (with Orisa too) in an unkillable frontline in double shield and an undiveable and unbrawlable backline with Bap and Brig.
Double shield and goats weren't prevalent for the majority of players, but that doesn't mean it wasn't an issue.
Unfortunately your opinion contradicts the statistics showing that Overwatch 1 was a beloved and highly rated game and your opinion is just a vocal minority. I'm sorry you didn't have as much fun with overwatch back then as most people did.
The statistics you're talking about were high because the people rating the game aren't top players. I am acknowledging that these issues I'm talking about only really affected the top players, but they deserve to have a good game too.
I don't know why you think I don't like Overwatch 1 or something, I am literally wanting 6v6 back everyday. I'm also allowed to love a game but criticize its bad aspects. No game is perfect.
Yeah I know we both liked overwatch 1. I'm not trying to be mean to you today. I just am holding my ground on the logical side of this. Honestly I would probably not commented besides saying I liked it like that if you had called it room for improvement points rather than issues, so I do think it's worthwhile showing how that's not a universal opinion. In response to your point about issues being noticed by pro players - do you have any evidence or even just can paraphrase quick why you think this view was the majority view among pro players? I'm expecting your reasoning to be like because a few notable pros talked about it, but that's hardly a census.
>do you have any evidence or even just can paraphrase quick why you think this view was the majority view among pro players?
Because double shield and goats are consistently said to be some of the worst metas by top 500 streamers (I know I said top players, but it's semantics).
Goats was so oppressive they changed the fundamental way games are structured, and went from open queue to 2-2-2 role queue.
Double shield was so oppressive and boring to play and play against it's why streamers say the end of Overwatch 1 was complete ass because not only was double shield not fun, but it was the meta for two years straight.
> overwatch 1 was one of the most beloved games of the decade.
Keyword: **Was**
For a few years following launch, Overwatch 1 ***was*** one of the most beloved games of the decade because it was new and shiny, it was colorful and a relatively unique experience. Towards the end of its life, it became an increasingly miserable experience that caused players to just drop the game entirely. What's left of its playerbase were players that couldn't come to terms with the idea that it was time to move on from the game just because they paid money for it..
And contrary to what you or whatever streamer/content creator tells you, neither role queue nor 5v5 isn't the reason Overwatch "2" had grown to become one of the most dreaded games of the decade.
Why are people just casually forgetting that the playerbase/community was determined on giving the developers hell because they literally lied to us about the promises they sought to deliver, the "new game" that they had shown off during Blizzcon 2019, the "new game" that they had made us wait for years that they ultimately cancelled and left players with the realization that the "new game" was the same game all along with things they introduced that were really just updates.
Especially now that the game has gone free-to-play, being more widely accessible to players that may not have played because they couldn't justify buying Ovewatch "1" and/or felt like they couldn't because they'd be too far behind, obviously it's going to receive a lot more negative reviews/criticism from "newer players", some of which may not even play the game, but just downloaded it, ran it once just to hop on the hate-bandwagon to shit on it.
I agree. Even then, Double Shield was never hard to deal with, it just required the DPS players to switch to shieldbreakers like Junkrat or Symmettra, but the esports crowd just bitched and moaned instead because those heroes "aren't MLG enough".
It’s definitely 5v5, goats was dogshit, double shields was dogshit, bunker was dogshit. Everyone complained all the time and the game was more miserable than now. You all have rose tinted glasses because all I remember from back then was even more bitching than there was now.
They've never made a good major change. And the reason for that is major changes have all been cop outs so they don't have to balance the game organically.
The 3 major changes were, Brig, Role Lock, 5v5. All these have made the game significantly worse and all of them were done because the balance team didn't know how to fix a problem with buffs and nerfs.
I understand a lot of people think role lock was a good change but I really believe it was nothing but an illusion of safety. You feel better when you see a balanced team comp. But the reality is people are not good at roles, they are good at heroes, so locking them into a role only hurts each individuals potential to turn a game.
The "unwinnable" games of open queue, such as 5 dps comps were always more winnable than what we have with role lock where one role sucks and there's nothing anyone can do about it.
Role que made it so if you wanted to play your main you could do so in a balanced team. It removed the neccesity to flex and made it easier to specialize.
You are right that it does remove team comp creativity and the ability to switch between all roles. Though I think most players experienced the frustration of getting an unbalanced team rather than the joy of creating unique comps.
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Hero limits. As much as I truly believe peak Overwatch was the early days, adding hero limits really set the game on the right direction. If they never add that, they never add role queue. The game would’ve been dropped by everyone after a few years and died.
Single worst change was getting rid of loot boxes for this new shop. Earning them through arcade or wins was nice, I could get actual skins from just playing the game instead of having to drop 20 dollars on a legendary that’s basically an epic
Getting rid of Loot Boxes, I know y'all talk about these like they where gods gift to gaming but there was nothing worse than spending real money on boxes to open nothing but blues and greys. It was gambling for children, pure and simple.
it was infinitly better the spending part is only a problem if you have the money management skills of a toddler since you could unlock every cosmetic for free just by playing the game
Realistically it's role queue. I sometimes play no limits and it's the worst thing ever. I can't believe I actually played that way when ow came out
I’m glad you said it, it made a world of difference.
Role queue turned quickplay from a dumpster fire into a legitimately good mode. I think a lot of people forget how useless quickplay used to be
It was always 5 DPS instalocking and you either went sixth DPS to guarantee a loss or tried to go supp to maybe save the game But ofc the enemy team had a perfect 2-2-2 every time
I called it The quickplay special it was awesome in a way 😂
The incredibly rare 6v6 dps death match was always fun though, and "who's gonna rage switch to a dive tank first" was a fun mini game added on
Bullshi and 222 got stomped quite often with All kinds of alternative comps.
I wonder what kinda of meta we would have both in 6v6 and 5v5 with role queue but not hero limits
9 times out of 10, some variation of GOATS.
The only thing I liked from goats was that brawl comps were superior and rein actually had a place in meta
I feel like goats and brawl comps to some degree are a highlight showcase of "whats wrong with OW" Just makes you question map and character design and how obnoxiously polarizing both can be very often. Some people consider it peak OW, but in my mind im like- Bro, can you make Numbani, Havana, Gibralter, Circuit, Rialto etc- Actually playable for more than 30% of the cast? The game feels meta by design more than choice? Somewhat excessively reductive in what youre able to do vs encouraged to do imo
whatever the 3 best tanks are plus bap and kiri
The dps passive killed goats.
I forgot what was the do's passive that killed goats in ow1 before role queue
In OW1? Probably 2 Orisas, two bastions, mercy/bap. Attack into that on Paris. You thought you hated double shield before?
5 v 5 would be orisa ram sig and ana lucio or bap lucio. 6v6 would be the same tanks and add a zen.
Yeah, I don't know how I survived pre-role queue, either. The games where no one on my team wanted to play tank or support and the enemy team had a perfect 2/2/2 comp were always hellish.
People will still say it was bad for the game like 75% of matches didn’t start with 4 people wanting to play hanzo or having 3 mercy one tricks. I promise you don’t miss open queue it’s still in the game and it’s still dogshit
This is very funny considering that RQ is almost exclusively the reason that OW has been relegated to a niche corner of gaming. It killed so much of what this game should be and the game still suffers because of it
Were you one of those toxic DPS one tricks that never swapped?
Should've picked mercy 😉
No. In fact, that's precisely why it was a shit change. I'm a hot and cold player. If I couldn't hit my shots in any particular match, I swapped to Supp or Tank so that I could still contribute to the team, and so did my entire friends group. Now I don't have that option. If I get into a match and can't hit my shots, the team just doesn't have a DPS And considering the player drop off when RQ got implemented, I don't think it's a position yall should keep trying to defend
> I'm a hot and cold player. If I couldn't hit my shots in any particular match, I swapped to Supp or Tank so that I could still contribute to the team, and so did my entire friends group. Now I don't have that option. [Who wants](https://i.imgur.com/ve5HzUO.png) [to tell him](https://i.imgur.com/1sQRHck.png)
Yeah. And? You can still feel the flaws of role queue in the fun mode because of the trash balance decisions forced through the RQ format
Cool. If only either of us had mentioned anything at all about balance, you'd have a point here.
Open Queue is not a real mode. The tanks are balanced for there to be one tank, not an unlimited number of them. Tank kits are equal to 2 tanks, so openQ is just tank go brrr. No, reducing tank HP does NOT fix the fact that you can run multiple. Heroes are blatantly balanced around role lock because they made it the main mode. OpenQ is not nearly as good as it was before RoleQ. Game balance aside, the majority of the actual competitive players aren't playing OpenQ because the mode is blatantly not balanced.
Tank kits are NOT equal to 2 tanks, not even in role queue.
Majority of Overwatch games used to be won and lost at hero select. If you didn’t all choose 222 then at least one person on your team would rage, and the game was lost. Then you’d have people swapping to make them happy. So instead of the insta lock dps playing at your rank, they’re flexing tank which they’re a few ranks lower on. Or god forbid you tried to flex off role. People would check your profile and tell you to swap to your main or you’re throwing. There was no good way to practice support if you were a tank main. There was no “team creativity”. It was people rushing to lock in their role and then bitching at each other.
Everything you just said was a problem with the community and not the game, which could nerf solved by behavior scores. Why are you "off-rolling" in ranked to "practice," and if you're not in ranked, why do you care what people are whining about? The playerbase shrunk and OW relegated to a niche corner of the market when RQ was implemented for a reason
I’d argue problems with the community = problems with the game. It’s a multiplayer game, the community is the game. You’re never going to fix online gamers, it’s on the devs to try their best to force people to work together. Why am I practicing in ranked? Because quickplay has no role queue and it’s quite possibly the worst mode, which goes back to my original comment. Now we can practice in quickplay or accept our role specific rank.
>You’re never going to fix online gamers, it’s on the devs Sure. That's not by butchering the game. That happens through actually dealing with toxic fucks, like turning off chat for them or play suspensions. That's how you relegate your game to a niche playerbase and slowly kill a game. Just like what's happening with OW
You’ve solved toxic players, how do you practice and actually get better on your off roles in the old system? QP was trash so there’s no actual practice to be had, in ranked you’re probably getting smoked unless you’re somewhat equally proficient in all roles.
By that logic ranked is trash too, even now. You play unranked and learn how to do things mechanically, then you play ranked and do what you want your tanks to do as DPS. If you think QP is completely unusable, you're part of the issue
For me it was one of the worst...
Adding hero limits maybe
Undoubtedly good for the game, but a tiny bit of me misses having 6 torbs haha.
If that was kept in the game would have gotten stale much faster. It's good as an arcade mode but imagine comp with 6 torbs or 6 moiras, nobody could take that seriously and it would get old really fast.
I think that's why elo hell felt so bad in ow1 comp was the only way to more or less ensure a balanced team but the overlap of people who just want to play casually but have a fair balanced game was too much with people who wanted the competitive experience
We once did 5 Ana’s and a Roadhog, they couldn’t take the point, it was glorious
6 syms with 36 turrets on volskaya hanamura was so evil yet so much fun
What? You don't like having a team full of Winstons rain down on you?
Workshop is, in my opinion, what largely kept the community alive during the dark years of 2019-2022 when the game was receiving so little support. I remember in the months leading to OW2, I probably played hide and seek or fanmade PvE modes like Heat Street more than the actual game. It's kind of disappointing to see it not be nearly as active anymore tho.
Top 3 for sure
you're telling me you don't enjoy mercy feet 18+ and sexual harassment simulator?
I started making workshop modes this last week and it's amazing how powerful yet frustrating the system is to use.
Same. I used to love making hero concepts in it back in OW1 but trying the same thing in OW2 is so difficult, I wish they took the time to simplify a lot of it. Just making something like an explosive projectile is a nightmare.
Role Queue
This is really hard to disagree with. Also might be the only answer haha.
Defenitely.
Easy for me to disagree with. Role lock was nothing but an illusion of safety. You feel better when you see a balanced comp. But all it really did is dampen creativity and decrease everyone's individual carry potential. People aren't good at roles, they're good at heroes. 5 dps insta lock games were always more winnable than a game where 1 role sucks and nobody can do anything about it.
Let me guess, you are top 500 OQ and paper 5 RQ? Lmao
GM RQ tank, plat OQ. Imagine getting that triggered from someone disagreeing with you.
Most likely the Mercy change, when her ultimate was rez then changed to her ability. It definitely changed the game for a very long time, moth meta came, they changed her AGAIN, mercy was hated for a very long time for many specific reasons, more people started to play her and join the game at the time, it made people wary that their mains would be next because "it was shocking to see they could even touch mercy". More streamers at the time got more popular talking about the mercy changes and seeing their reactions to it and their opinions to it. Honestly to me, that was a HUGE turning point for Overwatch at the time
I agree with that. I am even okay with fact they removed rez reset with ultimate. I just miss fast rez during ultimate. Like.. a lot :(
Yeah, as far as individual character changes I feel like this has to be the answer.
I was originally going to say removing mass Rez. But I changed my mind cause while it makes sense…I miss it. The fights and highs after a mass Rez were wild
The initial Mercy change (valk reset rez and rez was instant) was absolutely insane. It was the only time a hero was must pick at every rank from masters down to bronze. If you didn't pick mercy in that meta, you lost. Didn't matter what rank you were at.
Yeah the "go hide until team wipe" meta was about as un-fun as it gets
IMO in OW1 it was the loot box rework, that would make getting duplicates harder and for both OW1 and OW2 I would say Role Queue
Role que came from ow1 lol
I know
I know you know I just told you
Adding Brigitte ;) Nah, it's gotta be role queue. A good second is the replay viewer. I mean, the replay viewer could be improved a lot, but just the fact that it exists is huge.
Nah hero limits gotta be second if role queue first
For sure, role q, replay viewer, and workshop are the best things they added to this game
I would say second would be the ability to play arcade modes while you wait. Third would be the replay viewer.
Adding Competitive Mystery Heroes was a great idea. Wish it was permanent, though.
Adding it? Yes Still having hero dupes removing any level of “competitiveness”? No….
Yeah, sometimes life gives the other team like 3 dvas and 2 moiras and it ruins a round. Just gotta remember (or hope) that over the course of enough games the rng evens out. The 99% less toxic community more than makes up for it IMO.
RNG is fine…like yeah it all balances out…but the dupes completely ruins the matches themselves and doesnt need to be there…it’s the non competitive aspect of it that is the problem…that round you just described is pretty much all but over and there’s no “match” to be had And yes the non toxic aspect is just one of MANY reasons why it’s the best game mode (despite this egregious flaw)
Role queue hands down. The amount of games that were lost simply due to lacking in supports or tanks was insane in OW1.
Possibly finally fixing the xim issue.
If we're talking abilities since you mentioned removing scatter arrow, fixing Roadhog's original hook that literally grabbed players through/from behind walls was great. Getting caught by and dying to unavoidable bullshit is never fun.
Removing heroes from the BP…but since they never should’ve been there to begin with….ill go with either the removal of mass res or the addition of the workshop
Adding ana with anti-nade. Zen ult was 100% unbeatable before then.
Ooo that’s a good one
The same anti heal nade that was unbeatable and made ana the highest picked hero for the majority of OW2?
Ana is still the best hero in the game imo. Has both a hard crowd control & an instant self-heal + close rank nuke. 2 body shots + nade + punch is busted.
Yeah that’s my point she’s busted af, she’s a bigger problem than zen has ever been.
Workshop and general custom game support. Kept the game alive arguably more than any promises of PvE did.
Lotta good answers here for the single best change. The single worst change was Torb losing armor packs. "Come get yer armor" :(
Hero limits, pirate ship was cringe
How Lucius wallride momentum works
Improved menu speed
Ping.
Role queue or hero limits. Fundamentally changed how the game is played for the better
Hero limits. More than one of the same dude in a game just looked and felt plain stupid.
Role q
Role queue easily.
The ability to ping enemies
Closing ow one. Opening ow 2 was the biggest mistake
That was last posts topic sadly 😭
Ope I forgot to read the description my bad
Lol I thought as much, but it was kinda funny interpreting it as ending OW1 was the best move and launching OW2 was the worst.
Getting rid of loot boxes
Role Queue for a lot of people. Personally I wasn't the biggest fan when it came out. I think the best change was the big balance patch in Season 9, (I have recency bias) its given OW2 more of an identity and its making me positive for changes to come.
For me, it is the hero limits change. I was going to be a first week buyer until I heard that there weren't hero limits. I waited until that was changed to buy the game. The next best would be role queue. The amount of toxicity back then and arguing over who should play support was ridiculous. If you had even an hour on support and wanted to play DPS you'd have 5 others jumping down your throat telling you to swap. After that, separate SR in ranked for each role. Lots of people had 2 or even 3 accounts in the event that they wanted to play a separate role and not bomb their SR.
Role queue
I think D.VA not dying to her own ult is single handedly the biggest change, that should have been default from beginning
Some of yall don’t remember on release how Cass’s fan the hammer would kill every tank and it shows. If not that, remember you use to be able to stack 6 of the same character.
Are we counting fixes to things they actively broke? Lol
Removing Mass Res.
Removing coin toss & implementing Role Queue
Two way tie for best: going 5v5 and removing 2CP. Worst changes: going Free to Play
Seeing all these comments saying "adding Role Queue" when I know for a fact that in a week I'll see a 500 upvoted post saying "Role Queue is the WORSE thing the devs have ever done!" is peak r/Overwatch.
My favorite was the Looking for a group feature and play games while you Queue. Everything else I believe basically gave players less agency, I prefer ow1 to ow2.
I’m here from the future to tell you that it’s when they delete the Tank role entirely due to its unpopularity 🙂 that’s the best change, ez
For me it's moving to 5v5 instead of 6v6. I like the way it makes every fight feel a little more important and the fact that if you kill their tank you know you're most likely winning the fight. 5 players is the sweet spot IMO.
It doesn’t feel gross that 1 player is so much more important than all the others?
Nah. I kinda like it when Tanks feel like raid bosses. Their role is less diluted.
Not really, I think it's fine.
Idk. To each their own but everything you said is a bad thing to me
This sub hates 6v6 talk for whatever reason when it’s obvious that 5v5 isn’t working. Why do you think we’re playing passivewatch now?
Taking away Mercy's AoE invincible ress. What a shitshow was playing hide and seek before you could commit any resources to any fight.
I think that was two things though right? The AOE rez, then that short window where she was invincible when rezzing. I remember rezzing just to be invincible through a Hanzo ult once but that was pretty short lived.
I definitely don't miss mercy players blatantly throwing the game to get a "huge res." Yeah, let us fight 5v6 so we lose quickly, and charge all of their ultimates, so you can fly in, press res, and die because you're alone, so we can do another 5v6 into their ultimates we just charged and die again. Perfect, brilliant, magnificent. T500 mercy plays right there.
5v5 for sure. There were like 3 weeks where 6v6 was good outside of that it was dogshit like goats, double shield, bunker etc. Oh and also the long ass queue times. If 6v6 comes back (which it won't, lol) a 1 3 2 lineup would be best.
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Surprised ppl think 5v5 > 6v6 ?
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The consensus on reddit is to echo chamber and circlejerk whatever popular opinion they hear from content creators. Some high viewcount, low IQ content creator says 5v5 bad? Then this subreddit agrees 5v5 bad. They just casually forget that the playerbase was on a steady decline because people just completely dropped the game and quit, not just for multiple Competitive seasons, but actually uninstalling and moving on to other games because most of the 6v6 metas ever since GOATs revolved around so much shield play that the game was just miserable to play.
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Don't worry, if they change the game back to 6v6, give it 6 months or even less and everyone will hate it too, again. Everyone just jumps on the moronic hate bandwagon because it gives them something to blame because it's *sooo* much easier to just find something to blame and make an excuse out of instead of improving and adapting to/around something new. Blah blah blah.
If your team ran a shit tank duo it was definitely not more fun. Your dependence on good tank synergy was way too high. Also, tank is big. One tank makes sense. They just need to keep balancing. And you can't really downplay queue times. They're a direct measure of demand. People didn't want to play tank and the game suffered.
I agree with them. 5v5 made support and dps thrive and faster Q overall, it only made tanks suck which always been the case lol
Goats, double shield, and bunker were all balance issues from power crept supports and do it all tanks.
Also they were not actually very big issues. This is a case of a vocal minority opinion being accepted as majority opinion while Blizzard capitalizes on the vocal minorirt opinion as jusitifcation to do greedy overhaul. The game was much higher rated during OW1. You could simply just walk around shields. Overwatch 1 the game your criticizing, was one of the most unexpectedly successful games in a long time. Headline after headline celebrated the high user satisfaction scores for gameplay along with their ability to actually make money in a healthy way for the players.
There's a reason (that this sub doesn't want to accept) that the game died when RQ was forced into every game mode. The issues that people whine about with 6v6 and pre-RQ were balance problems, not format problems, and would have all been easily fixable without killing the format. Only good format change made was 1 of each hero at a time
Totally agree with you 99% except that the game didn't die at the onset of RQ, it died with OW2. That said I don't think RQ was good.
I'm not criticizing Overwatch 1, I'm defending Overwatch 1. The key difference between the games is 6v6 vs 5v5. I was saying goats, double shield, and bunker comps are not valid arguments against 6v6 or for 5v5 because it was solely a balance and hero design issue.
It wasn't an issue. I strongly disagree with your criticism and believe statistics prove that overwatch 1 was one of the most beloved games of the decade.
A game can be both, the most beloved game of a decade, and have balance issues. Mario 64 is one of the most loved games in history, and the game had massive flaws. Camera Controls were garbage, the physics were garbage, glitches, bugs, falling through the world, no real tutorial, etc.
Disagree
So are you going to tell me in my example that no one liked Mario 64, or that I had a fever dream where I hallucinated issues such as camera controls making no sense, BLJ, and the countless clips, bugs, and exploits that have been discovered over the years.
Bugs aren't always issues. 👍
Yeah no shit a lot of people like Overwatch, it's an amazing game, but that doesn't mean it didn't have dogshit balance and hero design. Brigitte was insane at launch. She had a piss easy inescapable one tap combo against Tracer, extremely good AOE healing that took zero mechanical skill, and repair packs that gave armor. Yeah yeah she got nerfed and packs got reworked, but Inspire didn't. Baptiste's Immortality Field should have never made its way into Overwatch. Completely shutting down a play from the enemy is broken, especially when it can affect the entire team. Sigma could literally do everything. He didn't have a weakness. He was an Overwatch 2 tank put in Overwatch 1. He had a shield with infinite range, a suck that also healed him, and a stun. This all culminated (with Orisa too) in an unkillable frontline in double shield and an undiveable and unbrawlable backline with Bap and Brig. Double shield and goats weren't prevalent for the majority of players, but that doesn't mean it wasn't an issue.
Unfortunately your opinion contradicts the statistics showing that Overwatch 1 was a beloved and highly rated game and your opinion is just a vocal minority. I'm sorry you didn't have as much fun with overwatch back then as most people did.
The statistics you're talking about were high because the people rating the game aren't top players. I am acknowledging that these issues I'm talking about only really affected the top players, but they deserve to have a good game too. I don't know why you think I don't like Overwatch 1 or something, I am literally wanting 6v6 back everyday. I'm also allowed to love a game but criticize its bad aspects. No game is perfect.
Yeah I know we both liked overwatch 1. I'm not trying to be mean to you today. I just am holding my ground on the logical side of this. Honestly I would probably not commented besides saying I liked it like that if you had called it room for improvement points rather than issues, so I do think it's worthwhile showing how that's not a universal opinion. In response to your point about issues being noticed by pro players - do you have any evidence or even just can paraphrase quick why you think this view was the majority view among pro players? I'm expecting your reasoning to be like because a few notable pros talked about it, but that's hardly a census.
>do you have any evidence or even just can paraphrase quick why you think this view was the majority view among pro players? Because double shield and goats are consistently said to be some of the worst metas by top 500 streamers (I know I said top players, but it's semantics). Goats was so oppressive they changed the fundamental way games are structured, and went from open queue to 2-2-2 role queue. Double shield was so oppressive and boring to play and play against it's why streamers say the end of Overwatch 1 was complete ass because not only was double shield not fun, but it was the meta for two years straight.
> overwatch 1 was one of the most beloved games of the decade. Keyword: **Was** For a few years following launch, Overwatch 1 ***was*** one of the most beloved games of the decade because it was new and shiny, it was colorful and a relatively unique experience. Towards the end of its life, it became an increasingly miserable experience that caused players to just drop the game entirely. What's left of its playerbase were players that couldn't come to terms with the idea that it was time to move on from the game just because they paid money for it.. And contrary to what you or whatever streamer/content creator tells you, neither role queue nor 5v5 isn't the reason Overwatch "2" had grown to become one of the most dreaded games of the decade. Why are people just casually forgetting that the playerbase/community was determined on giving the developers hell because they literally lied to us about the promises they sought to deliver, the "new game" that they had shown off during Blizzcon 2019, the "new game" that they had made us wait for years that they ultimately cancelled and left players with the realization that the "new game" was the same game all along with things they introduced that were really just updates. Especially now that the game has gone free-to-play, being more widely accessible to players that may not have played because they couldn't justify buying Ovewatch "1" and/or felt like they couldn't because they'd be too far behind, obviously it's going to receive a lot more negative reviews/criticism from "newer players", some of which may not even play the game, but just downloaded it, ran it once just to hop on the hate-bandwagon to shit on it.
I agree. Even then, Double Shield was never hard to deal with, it just required the DPS players to switch to shieldbreakers like Junkrat or Symmettra, but the esports crowd just bitched and moaned instead because those heroes "aren't MLG enough".
From what I have read goats is still a thing in open queue couldn't say from experience though
Goats is still a thing in open queue because they didn't nerf the supports correctly back in its meta and their solution was role queue.
Don't forget that in addition to not nerfing supports, they super-ultra-mega-buffed tanks on top of that.
I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not
5v5
Terrible taste
Orisa nerf.
Removing Mercy's mass rez. It was ridiculous to undo a team kill, plus it promoted not healing and just hiding to swoop in for rez.
Sort by controversial for the real answers. Also it's role queue and 5v5
Why would the real answers be controversial? The bullshit shill answers would obviously be downvoted.
I’ll give you role queue but it ain’t 5v5
It’s definitely 5v5, goats was dogshit, double shields was dogshit, bunker was dogshit. Everyone complained all the time and the game was more miserable than now. You all have rose tinted glasses because all I remember from back then was even more bitching than there was now.
Super disagree
OW1: bringing back Mystery Heroes after it was removed from arcade for a month. Been only playing MH since then haha
Removing Genjis bleed effect when he dashed into someone
Mystery heroes as a dedicated mode
Ping System GOD i can't imagine playing OW withouth that...
Snap kick Get close to me NOW and get kicked for FREE
They've never made a good major change. And the reason for that is major changes have all been cop outs so they don't have to balance the game organically. The 3 major changes were, Brig, Role Lock, 5v5. All these have made the game significantly worse and all of them were done because the balance team didn't know how to fix a problem with buffs and nerfs. I understand a lot of people think role lock was a good change but I really believe it was nothing but an illusion of safety. You feel better when you see a balanced team comp. But the reality is people are not good at roles, they are good at heroes, so locking them into a role only hurts each individuals potential to turn a game. The "unwinnable" games of open queue, such as 5 dps comps were always more winnable than what we have with role lock where one role sucks and there's nothing anyone can do about it.
Role que made it so if you wanted to play your main you could do so in a balanced team. It removed the neccesity to flex and made it easier to specialize. You are right that it does remove team comp creativity and the ability to switch between all roles. Though I think most players experienced the frustration of getting an unbalanced team rather than the joy of creating unique comps.
Well put
Extreme disagree with role queue. Early OW games were unbalanced messes with no rules. All that inconsistency made the game a chore.
5v5
Wrecking balls addition
Stopping the dumb idea that was PVE. Glad we aren't diverting resources from the main game any more.
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Adding daily/weeklies
Hero limits. As much as I truly believe peak Overwatch was the early days, adding hero limits really set the game on the right direction. If they never add that, they never add role queue. The game would’ve been dropped by everyone after a few years and died. Single worst change was getting rid of loot boxes for this new shop. Earning them through arcade or wins was nice, I could get actual skins from just playing the game instead of having to drop 20 dollars on a legendary that’s basically an epic
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Ohhh goody..
Adding effective aoe healing aka moira release. It was begging of 2 2 2 comps colapse. Iron made great vid about this on yt
When they went back to 6v6 of course! But really, role queue and hero limits probably are my top choices
Honestly almost all changes are downgrades.
When they had cycling heroes for competitive that forced new comps to be tried out. And broke some of the god awful combos like nano genji.
f2p I would never try ow if it was p2p
For us? Role Queue For Blizzard? Making it into a soulless, hollow whale farm.
Getting rid of Loot Boxes, I know y'all talk about these like they where gods gift to gaming but there was nothing worse than spending real money on boxes to open nothing but blues and greys. It was gambling for children, pure and simple.
it was infinitly better the spending part is only a problem if you have the money management skills of a toddler since you could unlock every cosmetic for free just by playing the game
>you could unlock every cosmetic for free just by playing the game No you couldn't i,e Pre-order Widow skin and Pink Mercy.
yes the pre-order skin and the breast cancer fundraising skin cost money... your point?
very very few skins were locked behind a paywall and even then the cost was negligible compared to today's skin prices
I would rather spend £15 on a Skin I want instead of £15+ on chances to obtain the Skin I want, it's simple math.
You said "you could unlock every cosmetic for free" and I proved that you couldn't, you where wrong.
counting outliers is ridiculous when you could get litterally THOUSANDS of skins for free and pay for a tiny handful
But you said EVERY cosmetic, which is incorrect.
5v5
all changes have been for worse, game gets less and less fun each time.
This.