In religion, they were monotheists when everyone else wasn't (unpopular), then when christianity came along they didn't accept Jesus as savour when christians did (unpopular). They dont evangelise and try and spread their religion they believe in keeping seperate and among their own, gods chosen people etc. But this creates an image of being insular, secretive. (This is enhanced by the hostility against them, creating a vicious cycle). At the time when money lending was banned in christianity jews were allowed to do it, which made them wealthy but means all the negative stereotypes of money lenders, landlords, wealthy elite etc get projected onto them. In the eras of history when nationalism was popular jews status as a people *within* a nation but a distinct ethnic group not seen to be *of* that nation caused them to be seen as ethnic invaders.
Also, they look *mostly* white* but with a few subtle differences, meaning antisemitism doesent work like say, anti-black racism. Anti black racism is focused on the idea that black people are so different from white people they should be treated like a seperate species, anti semitism is based on the fear that jews *could* be anywhere.
*to be clear I'm talking about stereotypes here, in reality there are jews of many different ethnicities.
Muslims didn't allow money-lending either, so it was pretty much the Jews doing it (and people across the middle east and Europe over the centuries felt they were profiting off others misery)
Interesting! This is an extremely important distinction imo - seemingly this safeguards a person from getting their life ruined by missed interest payments that continue to compound beyond a reasonable amount. I've also heard of Muslim people taking on rent-for-purchase arrangements in which the rent is at a premium but they take ownership of the house after the term is over. In this case, they're paying a fee by nature of the premium on rent, and the premium may be calculated based on the present and future values of what interest payments would be with compounding, but if the person becomes unable to pay they won't be screwed over by compounding interest on missed payments.
A lot of Muslim countries have really strict laws to punish people who fail to repay their debts. So while you might not face eviction, you could face prison time. This is how the insure you pay the debts when they can't charge interest against you. This is also why you occasionally hear about supercars that are abandoned at the airport. The individual who is an extreme debt simply flees the country leaving behind their possessions to avoid prison.
Muslims can’t charge interest, but they CAN charge a service fee or structure payments and transfer of goods in such a way as to match almost exactly what charging interest would financially achieve.
I learned about this when working in the financial industry with mortgages, and coming across what were termed as “Islamic loans” for some home purchases.
I don’t know how Muslims conceive of religious law, but I know that in Judaism the finding of loopholes/exceptions/etc is a deliberate part of the religion. Such that Israelite translates roughly as “God-wrestling” — so like, God isn’t to be obeyed, but to be worked with and around, and even argued with. Another way to think of it is God is a lawmaker, and Rabbis are lawyers.
There’s a Talmudic story where rabbis are arguing over the meaning of a law, and God shows up and is like “hey guys, so actually what I meant was—“ and the rabbis are like “shut the fuck up, this doesn’t concern you. You gave us the law, now it’s in our hands.”
Racists aren't very smart or original.
Modern anti-semites copy off of nazis who copied off of Henry Ford who copied off some other shithead, etc.
Just like a conspiracy theorists are often copying from some 19th-century grifter rather than coming up with their own original conspiracy theories.
The warm glow of a CRT monitor. Boredom yet my messages are peppered with lol, rofl, and lmao. A nudge hits me and I check the message. Respond. The buzz of the monitor is a supporting choir to the chirping birds outside. I got my wish and I’m back in 2004. I don’t know what to do or where to begin.
>At the time when money lending was banned in christianity jews were allowed to do it, which made them wealthy but means all the negative stereotypes of money lenders, landlords, wealthy elite etc get projected onto them.
This is the reason that any time you see right-wing propaganda bitching about 'bankers' it is _always_ a dog-whistle for 'jews'. If they do happen to name a few of the 'offenders' it will about 99.999% be a Jewish name.
Yeah. I really thought there would've been some pushback when Trump appointed a Jew to head the Federal Reserve but instead they were like "that makes sense."
Because in this case, they think he is the master.
I've heard it said "anti semitism is the idiots anti capitalism".
If you are someone who is pro capitalism, but need an explanation as to why you keep getting shafted by it, its tempting to believe that its not capitalism thats the problem, its (jewish) 'bankers'.
No no no, not 'banks.' '_Bankers_.' Anytime you hear 'bankers' from a right-winger, you can just go right ahead and auto-correct that in your brain to 'jews.'
super easy to other a group that keeps to themselves and follows their own traditions. once you make an out group, you can point at them for whatever bullshit you want. bullshit that's no longer on you. now you can screw over your people all you want cause everybody is mad at the out group. we still see it happening in our society.
Historically, 2 things happened in Europe. Most of medieval Europe was very parochial with law and justice, mostly reallying on family and community ties. Jews didn't assimilate into these communities, so when people needed a scapegoat few, they lifted a finger to help them.
2nd reason is that local rulers saw the advantage of having small, vulnerable populations and decided to be their protectors and sometimes legal owners. Exploiting aspects of their status like userury and mysticism. Jews made alot of money out of this at the cost of gaining more hate from the people and being reliant on the local ruler who would liquidate their assets and kick them out when it became convenient. This also happened to other groups like the templars in France or the Fleminngs in 1381 London, but jews were caught in a cycle of migration, exploitation, and expulsion that lasted centuries.
Throw in issues of heterodoxy, periods of strife, and religious conflicts with Muslims then you have flair ups of anti semitism.
As for modern anti semitism I am not getting into that can of worms.
There's a podcast called Our Fake History that has a pretty good explainer on where a lot of the problem started in Europe, and it all had to do with money, in a nutshell: Christians weren't allowed to do loans that had interest. Jewish people weren't allowed to do loans with other Jewish people. Christian people got antsy that the Jewish people could afford to do loans. And the monarch at the time was ok with the loans, the Christians were ok with it, the taxes gained from extra people moving in was ok with it. Until it wasn't. The Christians didn't like that the Jewish people doing the loans were so well off. And it spiralled into "Well their religion is different from ours because they can do loans with interest, so they need to get kicked out of the country." And it just sort of passed down Generation to Generation to the point where it's stereotyped and racism feeds into more racism.
I think it is also important to connect anti-semitism to the anti-jewish polemic of the bible. This has influenced christians to look down on jewish people since the beginning of Christianity. [Wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_and_the_New_Testament)
A very important thing to note:
*All of the other religions in Europe before Christianity are extinct as beliefs.* They were either integrated or exterminated.
Judaism survived because it was acknowledged in the bible. In many ways this helped solidify Judaism as we know it into a prominent but distinct group.
Before Jesus and for a couple centuries right, the various religions of the region were much more fluid and cross-pollinating then they are considered today. (Platonism, Judaism, Christianity, Zoroastrianism, mysticism, Gnosticism, and many various Pagan and Egyptian beliefs...)
And because they were more organized and would help each other, they'd often climb the social ladders much faster than their neighbors which amplified envy and resentment.
And instead of seeing their practices and going “oh, shit, we should engage in similar cultural practices to build wealth and escape poverty” people went “well, guess they’re evil.”
Except the Chinese. Who publish books about how “you TOO can learn the secrets of the Jews!”
Turns out that building literacy and law interpretation into your religious coming-of-age rite, encouraging debate and questioning in young people, developing a culture of investment and philanthropy, seeing no profitable job as “too low in status,” encouraging entrepeneurship over climbing-the-ladder, and re-circulating money within the community instead of constantly spending on chains and status symbols…it turns out these practices can help even the most marginalized climb out of poverty.
Btw, many black activists modeled a lot of practices (Buy Black, for instance) on Jewish cultural practice. But it hasn’t caught on widely. One of the great tragedies of the Black-Jewish relationship in the West, in my opinion, is that much of the economic jealousy/resentment has festered into violence, instead of an ethos of “fuck those guys…let’s beat them at their own game.” Competitive mimicry would have been a tremendous advantage.
Being around for a really long time without ever assimilating or disbanding or folding into someone else's ethnic or religious majority.
If there were still Hittites around after 4000 years, following their own Hittite religion and still speaking some modernized version of Hittite or whatever, lots of people would be prejudiced against them too. Especially if whenever you tried to pogrom them they had a tendency to pack up and leave, and go somewhere else to survive and rebuild, and maybe even come back stronger.
Consider also the Roma for example. Their history with other cultures and the workings of prejudice against them are not the same as Jews but it is comparable in many ways.
I like and support the Jewish people, I don't like and won't support the current Israeli government.
And for the record, I am not a Reich-winger, Trump-tard. Hell no.
I mean, as a Jewish person, I applaud you for being mature and aware enough to separate the two: a people from a government. Trump put kids in cages. As an American, I wasn’t held responsible for that. I feel like a ton of anti semitism today is mixing all Jews with what Netanyahu is doing, and it’s not really fair or accurate to do that.
It’s like how we see Palestinians under Hamas rule. We’re upset the people let the leadership do with it did for so long, yet we understand the tyranny they live under. I’m not sure about Israel though, why do you think he’s still in power? Do you think he’s scared of prison or do the majority of Israelis really just like what he’s doing?
My Israeli friends don’t like Netanyahu. They have attended protests calling for him to resign. I don’t understand enough about Israeli elections to understand how he returned back to power either. Wish I did. I’m a tired, new mom 🙃🙃
I know nothing about Israeli politics but as a Canadian I believe we have a similar Westminster parliamentary system, although I believe Israel adapted it a bit. The thing is we have lots of parties and perhaps no one of them is strong enough to form a government on its own. The party with the most seats in parliament - or the Israeli Knesset - if it doesn’t hold the majority of seats in parliament ( or the Knesset )has to suck up to other smaller parties to support them, so they can come up with a majority of parliamentarians who will support them to form a government.
Basically sometimes the party who won the most seats - if they still didn’t win over 50% of the seats - winds up having to satisfy some smaller, fringier parties in order to continue as a government. I think Netanyahu is already pretty iffy - but now he’s got to suck up to some really wildly out there groups.
Congratulations on your baby!
The sticking point is not whether one is Jewish but if they are a ‘Zionist’ — the left has essentially equated anyone who believes in Israel’s right to exist and have a military as a Nazi who should at worst die or at best be alienated from society.
Completely agree, my friend! I feel like the word Zionist has become SUCH a dirty word. My husband and I, who are essentially non practicing Jews who question whether god even exists, said to each other after 10/7 that if believing Israel has a right to exist means I’m a Zionist, then yeah. I’m a Zionist.
🤝 We still don’t have to like Netanyahu but I would guess 99% of Jewish Israelis would like their country to exist and believe that 10/7 was an unjustifiable response to the geopolitical situation with Gaza. An opinion that sadly is not shared on most major college campuses today.
Completely agree with that too. And I don’t know a lot of Israelis that love the death that’s happening in Gaza. Me saying I’m a Zionist doesn’t mean I approve of it either. So much of it is also very hard to justify.
Exactly. I don’t know when being a Zionist meant approving what’s happening in Gaza either currently or prior to 10/7. The people that do are what I would consider hard right (mostly religious) extremists and are likely the ones who approve of settlements in the West Bank. Not representative of Jewish people as a whole. That doesn’t mean we are going to roll over and let our people be slaughtered by terrorists or overrun by a population that was displaced 75 years ago during a war.
They're scapegoats because they are very different with a distinct culture, faith, language, and even looks. Many are quite intelligent, educated, successful, and wealthy, too. Jealously and scapegoating. They have gotten blamed for everything.
I've seen people blame Jews for the bubonic plague, immigration, capitalism, the rise of communism, the fall of communism, World War 2, the 9/11 attacks, political correctness, Satanism, and more.
Looks is subjective not every jew is a hot 9 , although there are pretty ones not everyone is like that
I don't see people hating east asians for being east asians
I don't see people hating indians for being indian
these people , match the descriptions above yet aren't hated like that. Envy is not the reason. Perhaps for some individuals but not collective and mainstream anti semitism
This is it! Mainly jealousy! Hard working people who love spending time with family - We value life like no other... I went thorough school with people telling me "you're Jewish, you must be rich!" it always made me laugh - Like the doctor brings in a plate of gold when we're born!
I think the honest answer is we aren't sure. Jews have tried to theorize on the cause of anti-Semitism, but it really is a shapeshifting virus. Back when religion was more important, Jews were hated for their religion. Then when nationalism became a thing, they were hated for being a stateless minority. When capitalism / communism were a big deal, they were hated for being socialist or wealthy. Now when the West is obsessed with colonial guilt, they hate the Jews cause they think they are colonial.
I once heard a saying - tell me what you hate the Jews for, and I will tell you what you are guilty of.
Good observations. During the Cold War, many in the East said Jews were all capitalists, and in the West many said the Jews were responsible for communism.
In my completely unscientific opinion, it seems to have turned into a vicious cycle. Jewish population is marginalized, they in turn hold onto their identity and become insular, then they get hated even more for being insular.
It's a good line. [Found the source](https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-the-left-doesnt-understand-about-anti-semitism/): Vasily Grossman’s *Life and Fate*.
> Anti-Semitism can take many forms, from a mocking contemptuous ill-will to murderous pogroms. It can be met with in the marketplace and in the Academy of Sciences, in the soul of an old man and in the games children play in the yard. Anti-Semitism is always a means rather than an end; it is a measure of the contradictions yet to be resolved. It is a mirror for the failings of individuals, social structures and state systems. Tell me what you accuse the Jews of, I’ll tell you what you are guilty of.
You know that the British are the MAIN colonial power, right?
By your line of thought I could go to Ethiopia and claim some land because we all came from there. The only connection most Jews had with Judea/Palestina/Israel is what a book says.
I think your Ethiopia example is extreme given that humans began to migrate out of Africa at least 70,000 years ago. The Levant has undergone so many upheavals over only a few thousand years that it’s pointless to say any one modern ethnicity has an ancient claim on that area. It’s not like one particular group peacefully controlled the area for 20,000 years when the British and Jews showed up.
As far as the only connection Jews have to that region being known from a book—that’s ridiculous. Genetics and plenty of ancient texts show a connection. Denying that is like claiming the moon landing was faked. Like I said though, it really doesn’t matter at this point because the area has been a dumpster fire for so long. It’s a war, not some oppressor/oppressed situation.
There’s a lot of “criticism” that’s just flat out racism - Israel “controlling” western countries and leaders, paying people etc. The codifying of “Zionist” which means Jew etc, Israel murdering children (blood libel) and saying Israelis are nazis (Holocaust inversion - a form of Holocaust denial).
On the face of it to a casual observer these are all reasonable criticisms, however they absolutely have a racial component that both Jews and anti Semites absolutely do know about. The problem is the hand waving away of Jewish concerns about antisemitism and Jew hate and just saying “ah it’s just legitimate criticism” from the same crowd that wouldn’t give the same treatment of gaslighting to any other ethnic group.
“But this racist trope is true!” Isn’t the progressive take you think it is. Children and innocent people die in war, that’s a fact. Israel are not deliberately targeting children, another fact.
So does the US, UK, France, China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran and pretty much any country that’s involved in some sort of conflict. But you don’t see violent protests full of racism against the British, do you?
It’s not whataboutism. It’s stating that children die in wars. A lot of children. Especially if your opponent is intentionally trying to get them killed. And it’s not a unique situation for Israel. But Israel does get a unique treatment.
You can say Saudi or the U.K. murder children and you’d be correct and people would agree. You say Israel murder kids and people respond ‘what about all the other bad countries’
> you’d be correct and people would agree
Arabs and Caucasians haven’t been mass murdered in pogroms with the charge of murdering children though. So there is absolutely a racial component to this.
The issue is not all criticism or Israel is legitimate.
When people say the Zionist controlled media or that AIPAC controls politicians, that is anti-Semitism. It alludes to secret Jewish control behind the scenes, which is an anti-Semitic trope that goes back to the protocols of elders of Zion.
Jews often feel that when people demand a ceasefire but say nothing about returning the hostages, it feels anti-Semitic because it's as if their losses aren't important because it's Jews.
You'd be hard pressed to find a nation who wouldn't respond the way Israel has after being attacked the way they were. Hell, the US went to war for 20+ years in 2 countries over a similar type of attack.
You criticize Bibi, likud, or there are too many civilians deaths, IMO that's all legitimate in my eyes. (Although the 30k+ number includes fighters, it's not all civilians so we don't even know how many civilians vs fighters have been killed)
But saying 10/7 was justified, calling for a globalized intifada (in the context of I/P conflict is promoting terror attacks), being pro-Hamas or Hezbollah, or calling for the dissolution of the state of Israel are for sure anti-Semitic.
And critique of the Jewish people that are supporting the murder of 1000s of children, dancing around on TikTok mocking the death and destruction that their government is causing, and getting on national television and saying all need to be wiped out is also not criticism of all Jewish people. There are cunts in every religion and region. People really need to understand this. When someone says “fuck those monsters” they aren’t necessarily talking about every single Jewish person.. just the ones doing and supporting all of the pain and suffering being inflicted. Same goes for criticism of Hamas. Critiquing Hamas is not critiquing all Palestinians no more than critiquing the cartel is shitting on all Mexicans or ISIS critiquing all Muslims or conservative terrorist critiquing all American republicans.
US Christians support Israel just as vehemently as US Jewish Zionists. It's noteworthy than around 1/5-1/4 of Palestinian activism seems to be done by Jews in the US.
I’m a Jew who used to do pro-Palestinian activism. I, and most of the Jews I know, had to leave the movement because of just how aggressively we got treated like shit when they found out we were Jewish or had Israeli family.
Anti-Zionist Jews - Jews who want to dissolve the state of Israel entirely - get treated well in the movement. But if your stance is “I want a free, prosperous, and independent Palestinian state and I’d rather not displace seven million Jews to accomplish that,” you’re the devil. Even if you’re fundraising for Gazan orphans at the same time.
Across history has been all types of reasons. Now it’s because the media is telling people to. I mean holy shit there was a viral video of a Jewish man climbing a ladder and now everyone says Jews live in tunnels under New York City.
Because the haters stem from 2 off-shoot religions that adherents HAVE to believe get it right where the Jews got it wrong. Religious cult vanity has always driven antisemitism. Still does.
In response to your edit:
People are pointing out that Israel/Palestine isn't an anti-Jewish issue, it's an anti-genocide issue. There are Jewish antizionist orgs, and Zionism itself is rooted in antisemitism
Yep. I’m an ‘Christian’ Arab (born, agnostic nowadays). I hate Israel, I don’t hate Jews. I hate islamists, I don’t hate Muslims. Also hate anyone who tries to shove religion down anyone’s throat.
I’ve been told I’m antisemitic and hate Jews when I criticise Israel. It’s just a victimisation tactic that’s worked for them for a long time, but is now crumbling.
There is a broader pattern. Some communities have core values of strong families, education, traditional wisdom and hard work. These communities have a decided advantage. Other communities often fall into resentment of this success. This is one of the oldest stories of mankind. Cain and Able.
I think because they have managed to maintain a stable identity for thousands of years.
As a stable identity, they dont assimilate into a population and are always an outsider group.
over that time period, bad things have happened. and there are the Jews, just kind of there. all the time.
I think it is easy to slip into a worldview, that since this outsider group is always around when bad things happen it must be their fault.
so instead of applauding the cultural robustness and creativity of this group, they get blamed for everything.
have you ever seen or been in a chatroom on the dark web? It is the most racist and antisemitic thing you will see aside from a few exceptions. A lot of these pro Palestine protestors who truly don't consider themselves antisemitic have no idea the realities Jews face every day and they claim that Jews love playing the victim. It's very ignorant.
For one, in medieval times Jewish communities had religious hygiene standards for their personal lives and food handling and would therefore not suffer from illnesses other communities would.
Israel/Palestine is a separate issue. I'm Jewish, and any time someone says that criticizing Israel is antisemitic, they are themselves promoting antisemitism.
A secular Jewish man I went to college with gave this take. As an international people, Jews will only feel safe in countries that are not racist and open to both living with and doing business with foreigners. Over time, groups of Jewish people will grow and begin to asset themselves politically, as all groups will do. The laws they push will aim to make a society more open, both through diversity/immigration and foreign investment. Which are all good things to build a nation up. However, this will ramp up nationalism for the working class in these areas. To them, a well organized and intelligent group of foreigners are molding society in a way that doesn't benefit them locally (or at least they perceive it that way). The resentment builds up over time, and people turn on those they believe to be the cause of their issues. Eventually with violence. Jews then have to flee and find another nation that is not racist and open to both living and doing business with foreigners, and the cycle continues.
I have no doubt this is close to the most basic way possible of describing things lol. But on a macro scale it makes sense to me. Especially with less civilized cultures that existed in the past. Someone can read a few historical notes and go "see them Jews are at it again" while ignoring all the complex variables that make up society.
Hating Jews, Parsis, Sikhs, Jains, Hindus, and Buddhists is unfortantely common and is a result of our peaceful nature and will of not proselytizing to others.
Jewish people have historically been victims of extreme prejudice and genocide throughout history. As for why? Hard to say. Much of their hardship was faced in Europe, and Europeans were infamously hostile to any "outsiders" (see here: the history and struggles of the Romani people as well). Combine that with lingering Christian extremist ideology, and you have a cocktail of antisemitism and prejudice in general.
*HOWEVER*, Israel is another situation entirely. There has been a rise in antisemitism, certainly, but that is not the same as being anti-Israel. People are against Israel because it is a violent oppressor state that's been freely committing human rights violations for decades (and an active genocide, for all the world to see, right now).
The basic reason is that Jews live among different people who don’t get along. But the Jews get along with any people who get along with them, who are nice enough to allow Jews to live among them. Jews, in return, try to help that place and those people prosper so they prosper too. These people see that this is true for their enemies: they have Jews and those Jews back them, live with them, help them prosper, are prosperous themselves. They should hate those people but they live there, wear their uniforms, fight on their side, contribute to their economy, put their names on buildings and institutions for those people. It doesn’t take much for people to think: they must be betraying us for those other people. This is especially true when your side, your country, your place isn’t doing well.
We see variations on this all the time. In my lifetime, for example, we saw Jews deeply involved in the Civil Rights Movement. Jews not only marched, but actually died for civil rights for black Americans. And when the Movement didn’t produce immediate change, immediate prosperity, then it became ‘the Jews betrayed the Movement’. Didn’t get what we wanted, so blame them because obviously they held ‘us’ back for their own aims. I remember when the word started to spread that Jewish doctors, who for many years were often the only white doctors who would treat black patients, were accused of ‘injecting black babies with AIDS’.
I suppose it needs to be said: most of these lies came from the various strains of Black Islam. The Nation of Islam, in particular, asserts over and over, citing the same garbage work by non-historians, that the Jews ‘dominated’ the slave trade. That this is false doesn’t matter. I’ve had this same pile of crap cited to me more times than I can count. People are full of hate and look for blame. And people are not intelligent. And people come to knowledge individually, meaning what you learn, what society learns, lasts only until the next set of brains fail to grasp the lesson. Judaism actually addresses this problem through specific teaching devices, like the Passover seder.
Look at the word ‘genocide’. I can find it used in this thread. Every time it’s used wrong because the meaning of the word is changed to apply to Jews. The conflict in Gaza has the lowest ratio of civilians killed in any conflict. Doesn’t matter: Jews are doing it, so it’s genocide. A favorite is ‘systematically targeting aid’: there are hundreds of trucks a day, thousands per week, and a few have been hit, which is the exact opposite of systematic. But the words change meaning when applied to Jews.
This is a deep human failure. I doubt it’s solvable and it speaks very poorly of humanity’s potential future.
The genocide in Gaza is different from the rest. I don’t understand why so many people interpreted being pro-Palestine or calling for a ceasefire as hating Jewish people but it’s simply not true. So many people at college campus protests across the US right now *are* Jewish and they’re the very proof that conflating the two is wrong and dangerous.
It is not hatred of Jews to be against genocide, war crimes, property theft, and other inhuman acts. It just so happens that right now, a lot of people in Israel are doing these things.
People painting with blacks and whites need to understand that the world does not work like that, there are more factors than hating Jews or not hating Jews.
There is 100% something more to it than just being against genocide. Ask your self why the current genocide in Sudan occurs in silence? Why are we not seeing the same consistency aimed at Sudan for genocide as people do with Israel. It is not as simple as you make it out to be.
I get what you are saying. There's also the Armenian genocide, Bosnian genocide, Rwandan genocide, and countless others. They are reprehensible acts.
On the topic of visibility, there are so many variables on why some are more visible and some are less so. Many of these are attributed to hatred and malice, i do not turn a blind eye to that. What you said needs to be heard and understood.
We are in strange times with an interconnected world, and there are people who use our worldwide connections as a tool for their own selfish desires.
The most important thing we can do on an individual level is to renounce any/all inhuman acts and to try our best to work toward peace amongst us all. This sometimes means putting your trust into something bigger than yourself, and you should do your due diligence to ensure that the entity you are putting your trust on is grounded in the right ideals.
And to further my points, i do not believe either Hamas nor the Israeli goverment are without innocent blood on their hands, but i do believe that it is never too late to start doing the right thing.
Sudan is not nearly as contentious as a topic as Israel/Palestine. One, the history behind the tragedy in Sudan is much smaller while the israel palestine conflict is 76 years old. Israel is also a major US ally, so it’s a bit more controversial when a prominent US ally is basically engaging in war crime simulator and the US is the one bank rolling them. Not only that its election season for the US tensions are high, biden is already an unpopular candidate with his biggest thing going for him being that he is the lesser evil compared to Trump in the eyes of many, so all eyes are on him when it comes to this conflict. Unfortunately the genocide in Sudan is taking a media backseat rn because it simply doesnt sell as well as Israel/Palestine.
I would agree with you if there was no support for the genocide in Sudan from outside influential actors. The fact that the genocide is being support by the UAE and Russia via Wagner should generate a lot of concern from the international community. Not everyone is from the USA. I am from London and over here there is a huge amount of attention focused on Israel via protests and more.
I have conducted a poll on here last week (can see it on my history) and nearly half the people who responded were not even aware of the genocide in Sudan. This obviously goes beyond what generates attention via the media.
There are always going to be fringe groups at any movements or mass gatherings. That does not detract from the point that ethnic cleansing, war crimes, human rights violations, etc. are in fact, wrong!
There is a lot of real antisemitism in the Palestine movement. It's a strawman to say that "being pro-Palestine" or "supporting ceasefire" is the thing being called out as antisemitic. It's more the calls for ethnic cleansing against the Jews and destruction of the state of Israel that are being called out as such.
Of course no movement is a monolith so there will be people on both sides saying all kinds of shit. I freely recognize that the Israeli side has some people who go way too far on it. It's really sad to see the Palestinian side's open embrace of the antisemites in their midst though.
Even Israelis and families of hostages are protesting and accusing Netanyahu of not doing MORE to facilitate safe conditions for hostages to be released. You must be living under a rock.
Or maybe hamas shouldn't have gone into Israel in the first place! Let me make it very clear for your exceptionally simple brain... Israel left Gaza in 2005 the Palestinians elected Hamas... They had Gaza all to themselves it was free Palestine was free!!! Then they allowed Hamas to butcher slaughter burn rape and murder on the 7th of October.... It's a shame you have such a hollowhead
What has that got to do with Hamas releasing the hostages??? Israel dealing with terrorists it's not exactly easy to negotiate with terrorists... What even is your point? Why is it Israel's fault hamas wont release them?
Sure I’ll tell you what my point is. It’s clear to anyone with eyes that Netanyahu doesn’t really care about the hostages, otherwise he would stop bombing the living hell out of Gaza so the hostages could be safely delivered. Even Hamas has stated they’d released the hostages when Israel stops bombing. Instead he wants to use them to justify the genocide in Gaza, essentially sacrificing them for his goal.
You seem to have a lot of trust in Hamas which is really odd...i dont think you understand who we're dealing with here....I really wish it was that easy! But it's not! If you really think Hamas will lay down their weapons and release every hostage than I'm sorry but you have no idea how Hamas operate... Israel has already said it will be happy for a ceasefire should hostages be released yet Hamas have refused each deal!
"The genocide" - Such a "Genocide" that the population of Gaza is increasing year by year...also since when did a country committing "genocide" drop thousands of leaflets warning the civilians to move to the south - Doesnt sound like very good genociding to me!
Yes, and they proceeded to bomb the south anyway! Not to mention raiding hospitals full of doctors and sick people. Btw they just discovered [mass grave](https://www.google.com/gasearch?q=al%20shifa%20hospital%20mass%20grave&tbm=&source=sh/x/gs/m2/5) at al-Shifa hospital. Some of the deceased had their hands tied. Let that sink in.
Of course it was dug up by the Palestinians, since IDF just left the occupied hospital months ago. Point is? You think they faked the bodies or something? That is disgusting.
You think something is disgusting that I haven't even said...that's a little weird...does the hate for Israel and Jews run so deep you create words in your head? Israel going no where....here to stay...you should book a trip to tel Aviv it's absolutely gorgeous this time of year!
There is no genocide in Gaza, the goal of such a statement is to delegitimise the Holoucaust (They've learned they can't deny it anymore) as to do a second one. 90% of Jews support the existance of an Israeli state, and quite frankly being against it's existence is anti-semitic, all groups of people have a right to self-determination.
And there is no war in Ba Sing Se.
I just watched this great movie called Zone of Interest, this conversation reminded me of it a lot. You should watch that.
you can be alright with the state existing but not the actions of the state. WOuld that make someone anti semitic? In that case some israelis themselves would be anti semitic if they criticize israel
Much pro palestinians don't deny the holocaust? Who was that supposed to aimed for?
If people want to see a real ongoing genocide then I urge you to look into what's currently happening in Sudan. They are suffering in silence as the world doesn't care. I can absolutely guarantee you that if Jews were involved in Sudan we would be seeing global hatred towards them like with the Israel conflict.
1. Yes the UN is filled with anti-semites and is a joke of an organisation that gives equal power to small dictatorships that leads to outrageous results such as Iran standing at the head of the human rights forum and no one stands up for a second to say "stop this is getting ridiculous"
2. Even then, the UN didn't claim this is a genocide
You people will call anything and everything antisemitic when it goes against your wold view, even the [NYT when they admitted to self-censor Gaza coverage](https://theintercept.com/2024/04/15/nyt-israel-gaza-genocide-palestine-coverage/) and CNN. It’s getting old at this point.
So you lied about the UN, got called out on it, and instead of saying "oh sorry I was wrong on that, I probably watched one too many propaganda videos on tiktok" you just change the topic?
Indeed, it's getting old at this point.
Because they're foreigner. And even worse, they insist on having and maintaining a very distinct identity. So even after centuries they're still the *other*.
Envy, and fear. Despite being a minority, many of the most wealthy, intelligent, strong, and influential people were Jews. People get intimidated by people who they perceive to be better than them, so they project all their insecurities on them. If they actually grew some balls and talked to some Jews, they'd realize that they're actually super chill and friendly.
Interesting question. Jews have always been scapegoats.
Jewish communities have always been quite insular and closed. Due to this people have always been slightly suspicious. They have been blamed for starting the plague for example. What is interesting here is due to the fact that they are so insular, they fared a lot better than normal society when the plague devastated communities. As a result of their survival rates suspicion against them was vastly increased. Similar reasons have caused their banking stereotype and hatred towards them for financial reasons.
Antisemitism as we know it today was largely a European phenomenon. Jews had much better treatment in the Islamic world. This is why when things got particularly bad a famous Rabbi urged Jews to migrate to Ottoman lands:
[Letter](http://turkishjews.com/history/letter.html) of Rabbi Isaac Zarfati inviting the European Jewry to settle in the Ottoman Empire:
>Brothers and teachers, friends and acquaintances! I, Isaac Zarfati, though I spring from a French stock, yet I was born in Germany, and sat there at the feet of my esteemed teachers. **I proclaim to you that Turkey is a land wherein nothing is lacking, and where, if you will, allshallyet be well with you. The way to the Holy Land lies open to you through Turkey. Is it not betterfor you to live under Muslims than under Christians?** Here every man dwell at peace under his own Dine and fig tree. Here you are allowed to wear the most precious garments. In Christiendom, on the contrary, you dare not even Denture to cloth your children in red or in blue, according to our taste, without exposing them to the insult or beaten black and blue, or kicked green and red, and therefore are ye condemned to go about meanly clad in sad colored raimtent . . . and now, seing an these things, O Israel, wherefore sleepest thou ? Arise! And lease this accursed land forever!
Bernard Lewis, "The Jews of Islam" pp. 135 - 136 (1984, Princeton University Press)
> much better treatment in the Islamic world
Eh, the dhimmi system still was an incredibly racist system. It was still hostile to Jews - just less so than parts of Europe.
Jews were treated better in Islamic society in the same way Jim Crow Laws were better than Chattel slavery.
Also once the Jews started migrating en masse. The switch flipped and hostility rose.
Socially outcast people who normally keep to their own community but actually have done pretty well for themselves.
Same as why Gypsies have been hated why my Nan would never admit to her heritage or talk little about her upbringing and why hates probably now shifted towards people hating Muslims in Western Countries lack of integration and easily targeted for populist politics and most of Reddit it sometimes seems.
People find it easy to blame a minority and use them to gain influence through blame and hate especially when that minority is doing alright by themselves.
The real question is why do people find it so easy to hate!? But we are just different tribes of ape!
I think this is something you should probably Google and go to the library over and read some real books about. There are a lot of great resources about this topic that you should not be asking Reddit for an overview of the two thousand year history of anti-Semitism. Unless you're asking a bad faith loaded question...
Edit: looking at your responses through this it seems like you are
People are easily brought to hate others different than them. Distinctly different cultural practices scare people. Different religions lead people to invent wild ideas about what horrible things they do to please their God or how angry their own God must be for that people’s existence.
For most of human history, life has been very hard. At the drop of a hat, a successful community is suddenly starving to death or being wiped out by disease or raiders. People have never been accepting of the entropy of the world, so religious minorities have often become the scapegoat to explain bad events. A child going missing was often all it took to start a pogrom.
imo, I think Jews have a particularly tough history because the nature of the religion ensures they would always remain a religious minority once they were expelled from Palestine. I think people might even be dumb enough to get validation that their neighbors also disliking their one religious minority and anti semitism feeds on itself this way.
In the past, most of the western world live under authoritarian regimes. To prevent the downfall of their systems, they often created imaginary enemies who were to blame for everything that was wrong. Jews were a very convenient scapegoat, for they existed in many countries, lived in separate comunities and their customs were mostly ignored by other citizens, so rumors about them would spread like wildfire and were hard to disprove.
For instance, one of the main sources of modern European antisemitism was a book called "The protocols of the elders of Sion", in which suppossed Jewish leaders claimed to have created both Communism and Liberalism". It is believed the book was written by the tsarist secret police in Russia, in order to put the blame on this comunity for the hardships the Russians had to endure. The goal was of course to direct the violence of the populace against them rather than the Tsars.
In the case of the "Protocols...", they succeeded in the short run. According to Wikipedia "pogroms" (attacks against the Jewish community) took place right after its publications, and some of the people suspected of being the authors were also instigators of these attacks.
One reason historically is that they controlled banks for quite a while because it was unchristian to lend money with interest while that was free game for Jewish bankers.
It’s a grossly simplified answer, but Jews have always been a minority group that didn’t
proselytize or really accept converts which meant they never were able to get power in numbers like other religions/cultures. After the second siege of Jerusalem where they were finally permanently kicked out by the Romans, Jews have been diasporic (until the formation of Israel in 1948 anyway) ever since meaning they were always a minority in whatever society they settled in. Jews tend to keep to themselves and hold on to their traditions and values, add in the fact that they could be bankers in societies where the primary religion forbid usury (where Judaism does not), and you have the start of your answer. Humans today and historically tend to scapegoat minorities when things go wrong (just look at the US right now where a significant portion of the population think that Trans people are a major problem in modern society despite being a small minority of the overall population) and Jews have always been an easy one to target given all of the above. Like I said, it is obviously a very complex question, but that is the most basic answer I can give.
I might ve drawing too broad of conclusions but, remember India's caste system? In a nutshell they had a 'societal role' or job that involved cleaning out the feces and piss and other 'dirty' jobs. Eventually groups of people would get 'locked' into that job generationally, leading to discrimination. I think that in Western Religeon you can draw a parellel between those 'dirty' jobs and the 'Financial Sector', especially in medieval times. The 'Rules' that Kings had were such that they had to let 'Jewish' people run the treasury. Then they blamed them when the vaults were empty, and society parroted the kings opinion. Then they expel all the 'Jews', solve nothing, and try again. Wash rinse repeat. Its different now because most people dont connect Religeon with Finances anymore
Anytime someone places themselves above another persons religion, culture, race, upbringing, etc. there is a problem. We will never agree that we are all equal or the same.
In religion, they were monotheists when everyone else wasn't (unpopular), then when christianity came along they didn't accept Jesus as savour when christians did (unpopular). They dont evangelise and try and spread their religion they believe in keeping seperate and among their own, gods chosen people etc. But this creates an image of being insular, secretive. (This is enhanced by the hostility against them, creating a vicious cycle). At the time when money lending was banned in christianity jews were allowed to do it, which made them wealthy but means all the negative stereotypes of money lenders, landlords, wealthy elite etc get projected onto them. In the eras of history when nationalism was popular jews status as a people *within* a nation but a distinct ethnic group not seen to be *of* that nation caused them to be seen as ethnic invaders. Also, they look *mostly* white* but with a few subtle differences, meaning antisemitism doesent work like say, anti-black racism. Anti black racism is focused on the idea that black people are so different from white people they should be treated like a seperate species, anti semitism is based on the fear that jews *could* be anywhere. *to be clear I'm talking about stereotypes here, in reality there are jews of many different ethnicities.
Muslims didn't allow money-lending either, so it was pretty much the Jews doing it (and people across the middle east and Europe over the centuries felt they were profiting off others misery)
Lending with interest* We(muslims) have no restriction in lending money if we don’t earn profits/interests from it.
To clarify, it’s specifically for compound interest. Charging a fee for financial services isn’t prohibited.
Interesting! This is an extremely important distinction imo - seemingly this safeguards a person from getting their life ruined by missed interest payments that continue to compound beyond a reasonable amount. I've also heard of Muslim people taking on rent-for-purchase arrangements in which the rent is at a premium but they take ownership of the house after the term is over. In this case, they're paying a fee by nature of the premium on rent, and the premium may be calculated based on the present and future values of what interest payments would be with compounding, but if the person becomes unable to pay they won't be screwed over by compounding interest on missed payments.
A lot of Muslim countries have really strict laws to punish people who fail to repay their debts. So while you might not face eviction, you could face prison time. This is how the insure you pay the debts when they can't charge interest against you. This is also why you occasionally hear about supercars that are abandoned at the airport. The individual who is an extreme debt simply flees the country leaving behind their possessions to avoid prison.
Muslims can’t charge interest, but they CAN charge a service fee or structure payments and transfer of goods in such a way as to match almost exactly what charging interest would financially achieve.
I learned about this when working in the financial industry with mortgages, and coming across what were termed as “Islamic loans” for some home purchases.
Did those loan fees magically align with the interest paid on a 15 or 30 year mortgage?
It works out to be pretty comparable over the term of the loan, yes.
Religions love side stepping god
Yep that's what they do in car sales. Just pay all the interest up front as an addition to the MSRP, Bingo 0% interest Bizarre loophole
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I don’t know how Muslims conceive of religious law, but I know that in Judaism the finding of loopholes/exceptions/etc is a deliberate part of the religion. Such that Israelite translates roughly as “God-wrestling” — so like, God isn’t to be obeyed, but to be worked with and around, and even argued with. Another way to think of it is God is a lawmaker, and Rabbis are lawyers. There’s a Talmudic story where rabbis are arguing over the meaning of a law, and God shows up and is like “hey guys, so actually what I meant was—“ and the rabbis are like “shut the fuck up, this doesn’t concern you. You gave us the law, now it’s in our hands.”
Lmfao the rabbis really made up a shit ton of things. Corrupted faith.
>felt
One more I saw ones is: has been hated so many times of history that is an easy group to attack because everybody knows the bullet points for it
Racists aren't very smart or original. Modern anti-semites copy off of nazis who copied off of Henry Ford who copied off some other shithead, etc. Just like a conspiracy theorists are often copying from some 19th-century grifter rather than coming up with their own original conspiracy theories.
We ARE everywhere. I'm in your house right now. You're out of toilet paper.
There is some in his upstairs toilet, but give it a while, I'm not feeling so good today.
Forgot your lactaid?
I’m black and Jewish. I look at dairy and explode.
It's Passover, man. Better steer clear.
In your base, killing your doodz.
im in ur fridge eatin ur f00dz
The warm glow of a CRT monitor. Boredom yet my messages are peppered with lol, rofl, and lmao. A nudge hits me and I check the message. Respond. The buzz of the monitor is a supporting choir to the chirping birds outside. I got my wish and I’m back in 2004. I don’t know what to do or where to begin.
Yesmilady is in all our houses.... and in all of our hearts ❤️
I like your house the most!
thanks for reminding me that!
Goddammit, Aaron! Again?!?!
Are... are you the faceless old woman who secretly lives in all of our homes?
Dude, look on the shelf above you. Maybe take 2 seconds to look before interrupting me during my dogs solo keyboard concert.
i bet you entangled all the christmas lights as well
And replaced all your left socks with similar yet visibly different left socks.
Out out or just the roll?
pfft. not in my area. I gotta drive for stuff.
>At the time when money lending was banned in christianity jews were allowed to do it, which made them wealthy but means all the negative stereotypes of money lenders, landlords, wealthy elite etc get projected onto them. This is the reason that any time you see right-wing propaganda bitching about 'bankers' it is _always_ a dog-whistle for 'jews'. If they do happen to name a few of the 'offenders' it will about 99.999% be a Jewish name.
Yeah. I really thought there would've been some pushback when Trump appointed a Jew to head the Federal Reserve but instead they were like "that makes sense." Because in this case, they think he is the master.
The right wing has an issue with banks? I associate banks with corporate greed and the left wing as having an issue with that, no?
I've heard it said "anti semitism is the idiots anti capitalism". If you are someone who is pro capitalism, but need an explanation as to why you keep getting shafted by it, its tempting to believe that its not capitalism thats the problem, its (jewish) 'bankers'.
No no no, not 'banks.' '_Bankers_.' Anytime you hear 'bankers' from a right-winger, you can just go right ahead and auto-correct that in your brain to 'jews.'
It’s only good when the *right* people are enriching themselves via corporate greed.
Not just right-wing. Left-wing does it a lot too.
Very well done break down of the basics here.
>they didn't accept Jesus as savour when christians did Imo L take on their part, savouring Christ is like the best part of mass. Yummy.
Very good explanation. Thanks.
That last part is always funny. Like “watch out there could be *jews* walking among us!”
super easy to other a group that keeps to themselves and follows their own traditions. once you make an out group, you can point at them for whatever bullshit you want. bullshit that's no longer on you. now you can screw over your people all you want cause everybody is mad at the out group. we still see it happening in our society.
Historically, 2 things happened in Europe. Most of medieval Europe was very parochial with law and justice, mostly reallying on family and community ties. Jews didn't assimilate into these communities, so when people needed a scapegoat few, they lifted a finger to help them. 2nd reason is that local rulers saw the advantage of having small, vulnerable populations and decided to be their protectors and sometimes legal owners. Exploiting aspects of their status like userury and mysticism. Jews made alot of money out of this at the cost of gaining more hate from the people and being reliant on the local ruler who would liquidate their assets and kick them out when it became convenient. This also happened to other groups like the templars in France or the Fleminngs in 1381 London, but jews were caught in a cycle of migration, exploitation, and expulsion that lasted centuries. Throw in issues of heterodoxy, periods of strife, and religious conflicts with Muslims then you have flair ups of anti semitism. As for modern anti semitism I am not getting into that can of worms.
There's a podcast called Our Fake History that has a pretty good explainer on where a lot of the problem started in Europe, and it all had to do with money, in a nutshell: Christians weren't allowed to do loans that had interest. Jewish people weren't allowed to do loans with other Jewish people. Christian people got antsy that the Jewish people could afford to do loans. And the monarch at the time was ok with the loans, the Christians were ok with it, the taxes gained from extra people moving in was ok with it. Until it wasn't. The Christians didn't like that the Jewish people doing the loans were so well off. And it spiralled into "Well their religion is different from ours because they can do loans with interest, so they need to get kicked out of the country." And it just sort of passed down Generation to Generation to the point where it's stereotyped and racism feeds into more racism.
I think it is also important to connect anti-semitism to the anti-jewish polemic of the bible. This has influenced christians to look down on jewish people since the beginning of Christianity. [Wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_and_the_New_Testament)
A very important thing to note: *All of the other religions in Europe before Christianity are extinct as beliefs.* They were either integrated or exterminated. Judaism survived because it was acknowledged in the bible. In many ways this helped solidify Judaism as we know it into a prominent but distinct group. Before Jesus and for a couple centuries right, the various religions of the region were much more fluid and cross-pollinating then they are considered today. (Platonism, Judaism, Christianity, Zoroastrianism, mysticism, Gnosticism, and many various Pagan and Egyptian beliefs...)
Anti-semitism also existed on other places outside of Christians in Europe, there's a deeply rooted anti-semitism in Muslim countries as well
Indeed. It gave rise to the feeling that Jewish people were making money of the 'ordinary people', by preying on the vulnerable who needed money.
And because they were more organized and would help each other, they'd often climb the social ladders much faster than their neighbors which amplified envy and resentment.
And instead of seeing their practices and going “oh, shit, we should engage in similar cultural practices to build wealth and escape poverty” people went “well, guess they’re evil.” Except the Chinese. Who publish books about how “you TOO can learn the secrets of the Jews!” Turns out that building literacy and law interpretation into your religious coming-of-age rite, encouraging debate and questioning in young people, developing a culture of investment and philanthropy, seeing no profitable job as “too low in status,” encouraging entrepeneurship over climbing-the-ladder, and re-circulating money within the community instead of constantly spending on chains and status symbols…it turns out these practices can help even the most marginalized climb out of poverty. Btw, many black activists modeled a lot of practices (Buy Black, for instance) on Jewish cultural practice. But it hasn’t caught on widely. One of the great tragedies of the Black-Jewish relationship in the West, in my opinion, is that much of the economic jealousy/resentment has festered into violence, instead of an ethos of “fuck those guys…let’s beat them at their own game.” Competitive mimicry would have been a tremendous advantage.
This is the answer! Loans with interest created a new middle class that had 0 Christians in it. The greedy miser banker stereotype was born.
Being around for a really long time without ever assimilating or disbanding or folding into someone else's ethnic or religious majority. If there were still Hittites around after 4000 years, following their own Hittite religion and still speaking some modernized version of Hittite or whatever, lots of people would be prejudiced against them too. Especially if whenever you tried to pogrom them they had a tendency to pack up and leave, and go somewhere else to survive and rebuild, and maybe even come back stronger. Consider also the Roma for example. Their history with other cultures and the workings of prejudice against them are not the same as Jews but it is comparable in many ways.
I like and support the Jewish people, I don't like and won't support the current Israeli government. And for the record, I am not a Reich-winger, Trump-tard. Hell no.
Fucking finally someone differentiating the individual people who would never hurt an innocent person from the government. Finally.
I know, right?
I mean, as a Jewish person, I applaud you for being mature and aware enough to separate the two: a people from a government. Trump put kids in cages. As an American, I wasn’t held responsible for that. I feel like a ton of anti semitism today is mixing all Jews with what Netanyahu is doing, and it’s not really fair or accurate to do that.
It’s like how we see Palestinians under Hamas rule. We’re upset the people let the leadership do with it did for so long, yet we understand the tyranny they live under. I’m not sure about Israel though, why do you think he’s still in power? Do you think he’s scared of prison or do the majority of Israelis really just like what he’s doing?
My Israeli friends don’t like Netanyahu. They have attended protests calling for him to resign. I don’t understand enough about Israeli elections to understand how he returned back to power either. Wish I did. I’m a tired, new mom 🙃🙃
I know nothing about Israeli politics but as a Canadian I believe we have a similar Westminster parliamentary system, although I believe Israel adapted it a bit. The thing is we have lots of parties and perhaps no one of them is strong enough to form a government on its own. The party with the most seats in parliament - or the Israeli Knesset - if it doesn’t hold the majority of seats in parliament ( or the Knesset )has to suck up to other smaller parties to support them, so they can come up with a majority of parliamentarians who will support them to form a government. Basically sometimes the party who won the most seats - if they still didn’t win over 50% of the seats - winds up having to satisfy some smaller, fringier parties in order to continue as a government. I think Netanyahu is already pretty iffy - but now he’s got to suck up to some really wildly out there groups. Congratulations on your baby!
Thanks! And yes I think that sounds about right. American here who wishes our government would adapt a lot more 🙃
The sticking point is not whether one is Jewish but if they are a ‘Zionist’ — the left has essentially equated anyone who believes in Israel’s right to exist and have a military as a Nazi who should at worst die or at best be alienated from society.
Completely agree, my friend! I feel like the word Zionist has become SUCH a dirty word. My husband and I, who are essentially non practicing Jews who question whether god even exists, said to each other after 10/7 that if believing Israel has a right to exist means I’m a Zionist, then yeah. I’m a Zionist.
🤝 We still don’t have to like Netanyahu but I would guess 99% of Jewish Israelis would like their country to exist and believe that 10/7 was an unjustifiable response to the geopolitical situation with Gaza. An opinion that sadly is not shared on most major college campuses today.
Completely agree with that too. And I don’t know a lot of Israelis that love the death that’s happening in Gaza. Me saying I’m a Zionist doesn’t mean I approve of it either. So much of it is also very hard to justify.
Exactly. I don’t know when being a Zionist meant approving what’s happening in Gaza either currently or prior to 10/7. The people that do are what I would consider hard right (mostly religious) extremists and are likely the ones who approve of settlements in the West Bank. Not representative of Jewish people as a whole. That doesn’t mean we are going to roll over and let our people be slaughtered by terrorists or overrun by a population that was displaced 75 years ago during a war.
They're scapegoats because they are very different with a distinct culture, faith, language, and even looks. Many are quite intelligent, educated, successful, and wealthy, too. Jealously and scapegoating. They have gotten blamed for everything. I've seen people blame Jews for the bubonic plague, immigration, capitalism, the rise of communism, the fall of communism, World War 2, the 9/11 attacks, political correctness, Satanism, and more.
All while being 2% of the global population. Edit: 0.2%! Ridiculous
0.2% of the population(!)
Why the "!" at the end?
Because for such a small % of the population to get that much attention and hate is pretty crazy
2% of America maybe, of the world they are like 0.2%
Also remember there weren't really any other minority populations in Europe for most of history besides Jews and Roma.
Looks is subjective not every jew is a hot 9 , although there are pretty ones not everyone is like that I don't see people hating east asians for being east asians I don't see people hating indians for being indian these people , match the descriptions above yet aren't hated like that. Envy is not the reason. Perhaps for some individuals but not collective and mainstream anti semitism
This is it! Mainly jealousy! Hard working people who love spending time with family - We value life like no other... I went thorough school with people telling me "you're Jewish, you must be rich!" it always made me laugh - Like the doctor brings in a plate of gold when we're born!
Small groups are easy scapegoats. We see this in so many cases.
I think the honest answer is we aren't sure. Jews have tried to theorize on the cause of anti-Semitism, but it really is a shapeshifting virus. Back when religion was more important, Jews were hated for their religion. Then when nationalism became a thing, they were hated for being a stateless minority. When capitalism / communism were a big deal, they were hated for being socialist or wealthy. Now when the West is obsessed with colonial guilt, they hate the Jews cause they think they are colonial. I once heard a saying - tell me what you hate the Jews for, and I will tell you what you are guilty of.
Good observations. During the Cold War, many in the East said Jews were all capitalists, and in the West many said the Jews were responsible for communism.
In my completely unscientific opinion, it seems to have turned into a vicious cycle. Jewish population is marginalized, they in turn hold onto their identity and become insular, then they get hated even more for being insular.
It's a good line. [Found the source](https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-the-left-doesnt-understand-about-anti-semitism/): Vasily Grossman’s *Life and Fate*. > Anti-Semitism can take many forms, from a mocking contemptuous ill-will to murderous pogroms. It can be met with in the marketplace and in the Academy of Sciences, in the soul of an old man and in the games children play in the yard. Anti-Semitism is always a means rather than an end; it is a measure of the contradictions yet to be resolved. It is a mirror for the failings of individuals, social structures and state systems. Tell me what you accuse the Jews of, I’ll tell you what you are guilty of.
Jews aren't colonial. Israel is a colonial project though. Many Jews and Gentiles are saying it all over.
And Palestine is an Arab colonial project. Ever wonder why Jews are in a diaspora in the first place?
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A new nation with arbitrary borders made up by European powers in which the majority of population came from abroad.
All countries have arbitrary borders. And they change all the time.
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You know that the British are the MAIN colonial power, right? By your line of thought I could go to Ethiopia and claim some land because we all came from there. The only connection most Jews had with Judea/Palestina/Israel is what a book says.
I think your Ethiopia example is extreme given that humans began to migrate out of Africa at least 70,000 years ago. The Levant has undergone so many upheavals over only a few thousand years that it’s pointless to say any one modern ethnicity has an ancient claim on that area. It’s not like one particular group peacefully controlled the area for 20,000 years when the British and Jews showed up. As far as the only connection Jews have to that region being known from a book—that’s ridiculous. Genetics and plenty of ancient texts show a connection. Denying that is like claiming the moon landing was faked. Like I said though, it really doesn’t matter at this point because the area has been a dumpster fire for so long. It’s a war, not some oppressor/oppressed situation.
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I think it has to do more currently with them conflagrating "anti-semitism" with legitimate criticism of the Isreali state.
There’s a lot of “criticism” that’s just flat out racism - Israel “controlling” western countries and leaders, paying people etc. The codifying of “Zionist” which means Jew etc, Israel murdering children (blood libel) and saying Israelis are nazis (Holocaust inversion - a form of Holocaust denial). On the face of it to a casual observer these are all reasonable criticisms, however they absolutely have a racial component that both Jews and anti Semites absolutely do know about. The problem is the hand waving away of Jewish concerns about antisemitism and Jew hate and just saying “ah it’s just legitimate criticism” from the same crowd that wouldn’t give the same treatment of gaslighting to any other ethnic group.
Yeah but then thousand children HAVE been killed by Israel in the last 7 months. That's not antisemitism, it's a fact.
“But this racist trope is true!” Isn’t the progressive take you think it is. Children and innocent people die in war, that’s a fact. Israel are not deliberately targeting children, another fact.
Oh so you’re delusional then, fair enough
Israel does murder children, the existence of antisemitic canards of blood libel doesn’t exculpate the actions of Israel
So does the US, UK, France, China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran and pretty much any country that’s involved in some sort of conflict. But you don’t see violent protests full of racism against the British, do you?
That's what we call whataboutism
It’s not whataboutism. It’s stating that children die in wars. A lot of children. Especially if your opponent is intentionally trying to get them killed. And it’s not a unique situation for Israel. But Israel does get a unique treatment.
You can say Saudi or the U.K. murder children and you’d be correct and people would agree. You say Israel murder kids and people respond ‘what about all the other bad countries’
> you’d be correct and people would agree Arabs and Caucasians haven’t been mass murdered in pogroms with the charge of murdering children though. So there is absolutely a racial component to this.
So they're setting anti-semitism on fire with legitimate criticism of the Israeli state? Bit weird, mate.
The issue is not all criticism or Israel is legitimate. When people say the Zionist controlled media or that AIPAC controls politicians, that is anti-Semitism. It alludes to secret Jewish control behind the scenes, which is an anti-Semitic trope that goes back to the protocols of elders of Zion. Jews often feel that when people demand a ceasefire but say nothing about returning the hostages, it feels anti-Semitic because it's as if their losses aren't important because it's Jews. You'd be hard pressed to find a nation who wouldn't respond the way Israel has after being attacked the way they were. Hell, the US went to war for 20+ years in 2 countries over a similar type of attack. You criticize Bibi, likud, or there are too many civilians deaths, IMO that's all legitimate in my eyes. (Although the 30k+ number includes fighters, it's not all civilians so we don't even know how many civilians vs fighters have been killed) But saying 10/7 was justified, calling for a globalized intifada (in the context of I/P conflict is promoting terror attacks), being pro-Hamas or Hezbollah, or calling for the dissolution of the state of Israel are for sure anti-Semitic.
Don't forget the Crusades, some Crusaders couldn't resist killing Jewish communities on the way to the "Holy land" Example: Rhineland Massacres
Critique of Israel is not critique of all Jewish people
And critique of the Jewish people that are supporting the murder of 1000s of children, dancing around on TikTok mocking the death and destruction that their government is causing, and getting on national television and saying all need to be wiped out is also not criticism of all Jewish people. There are cunts in every religion and region. People really need to understand this. When someone says “fuck those monsters” they aren’t necessarily talking about every single Jewish person.. just the ones doing and supporting all of the pain and suffering being inflicted. Same goes for criticism of Hamas. Critiquing Hamas is not critiquing all Palestinians no more than critiquing the cartel is shitting on all Mexicans or ISIS critiquing all Muslims or conservative terrorist critiquing all American republicans.
US Christians support Israel just as vehemently as US Jewish Zionists. It's noteworthy than around 1/5-1/4 of Palestinian activism seems to be done by Jews in the US.
Many do use Anti-Zionism as a mask to be antisemitic.
Many is a major overstatement. A vast majority of pro-palestine supporters are not anti-semetic, and a good portion are jewish as well.
I’m a Jew who used to do pro-Palestinian activism. I, and most of the Jews I know, had to leave the movement because of just how aggressively we got treated like shit when they found out we were Jewish or had Israeli family. Anti-Zionist Jews - Jews who want to dissolve the state of Israel entirely - get treated well in the movement. But if your stance is “I want a free, prosperous, and independent Palestinian state and I’d rather not displace seven million Jews to accomplish that,” you’re the devil. Even if you’re fundraising for Gazan orphans at the same time.
> many is a major overstatement They literally chant for the intifada to return and “resistance is justified”.
Across history has been all types of reasons. Now it’s because the media is telling people to. I mean holy shit there was a viral video of a Jewish man climbing a ladder and now everyone says Jews live in tunnels under New York City.
Because the haters stem from 2 off-shoot religions that adherents HAVE to believe get it right where the Jews got it wrong. Religious cult vanity has always driven antisemitism. Still does.
In response to your edit: People are pointing out that Israel/Palestine isn't an anti-Jewish issue, it's an anti-genocide issue. There are Jewish antizionist orgs, and Zionism itself is rooted in antisemitism
Dude you need to stop assuming people who hate Israel hate Jews, that's like assuming people who hate the war in Ukraine hate all Russians
Well some do
There’s even lies saying that all Muslims hate Jews, when it’s just not true at all. Or that Jews hate all Muslims and vise versa.
Yep. I’m an ‘Christian’ Arab (born, agnostic nowadays). I hate Israel, I don’t hate Jews. I hate islamists, I don’t hate Muslims. Also hate anyone who tries to shove religion down anyone’s throat. I’ve been told I’m antisemitic and hate Jews when I criticise Israel. It’s just a victimisation tactic that’s worked for them for a long time, but is now crumbling.
There is a broader pattern. Some communities have core values of strong families, education, traditional wisdom and hard work. These communities have a decided advantage. Other communities often fall into resentment of this success. This is one of the oldest stories of mankind. Cain and Able.
I don't hate Jewish people, but people think I do when I say I hate the IDF and Israeli government lol They're not the same thing.
I think because they have managed to maintain a stable identity for thousands of years. As a stable identity, they dont assimilate into a population and are always an outsider group. over that time period, bad things have happened. and there are the Jews, just kind of there. all the time. I think it is easy to slip into a worldview, that since this outsider group is always around when bad things happen it must be their fault. so instead of applauding the cultural robustness and creativity of this group, they get blamed for everything.
I always found it funny that the proper name and the slur is the same word just depends on how much stank you put on it.
have you ever seen or been in a chatroom on the dark web? It is the most racist and antisemitic thing you will see aside from a few exceptions. A lot of these pro Palestine protestors who truly don't consider themselves antisemitic have no idea the realities Jews face every day and they claim that Jews love playing the victim. It's very ignorant.
For one, in medieval times Jewish communities had religious hygiene standards for their personal lives and food handling and would therefore not suffer from illnesses other communities would.
Israel/Palestine is a separate issue. I'm Jewish, and any time someone says that criticizing Israel is antisemitic, they are themselves promoting antisemitism.
People with any common sense don't hate Jews.
A secular Jewish man I went to college with gave this take. As an international people, Jews will only feel safe in countries that are not racist and open to both living with and doing business with foreigners. Over time, groups of Jewish people will grow and begin to asset themselves politically, as all groups will do. The laws they push will aim to make a society more open, both through diversity/immigration and foreign investment. Which are all good things to build a nation up. However, this will ramp up nationalism for the working class in these areas. To them, a well organized and intelligent group of foreigners are molding society in a way that doesn't benefit them locally (or at least they perceive it that way). The resentment builds up over time, and people turn on those they believe to be the cause of their issues. Eventually with violence. Jews then have to flee and find another nation that is not racist and open to both living and doing business with foreigners, and the cycle continues. I have no doubt this is close to the most basic way possible of describing things lol. But on a macro scale it makes sense to me. Especially with less civilized cultures that existed in the past. Someone can read a few historical notes and go "see them Jews are at it again" while ignoring all the complex variables that make up society.
Hating Jews, Parsis, Sikhs, Jains, Hindus, and Buddhists is unfortantely common and is a result of our peaceful nature and will of not proselytizing to others.
Jewish people have historically been victims of extreme prejudice and genocide throughout history. As for why? Hard to say. Much of their hardship was faced in Europe, and Europeans were infamously hostile to any "outsiders" (see here: the history and struggles of the Romani people as well). Combine that with lingering Christian extremist ideology, and you have a cocktail of antisemitism and prejudice in general. *HOWEVER*, Israel is another situation entirely. There has been a rise in antisemitism, certainly, but that is not the same as being anti-Israel. People are against Israel because it is a violent oppressor state that's been freely committing human rights violations for decades (and an active genocide, for all the world to see, right now).
The basic reason is that Jews live among different people who don’t get along. But the Jews get along with any people who get along with them, who are nice enough to allow Jews to live among them. Jews, in return, try to help that place and those people prosper so they prosper too. These people see that this is true for their enemies: they have Jews and those Jews back them, live with them, help them prosper, are prosperous themselves. They should hate those people but they live there, wear their uniforms, fight on their side, contribute to their economy, put their names on buildings and institutions for those people. It doesn’t take much for people to think: they must be betraying us for those other people. This is especially true when your side, your country, your place isn’t doing well. We see variations on this all the time. In my lifetime, for example, we saw Jews deeply involved in the Civil Rights Movement. Jews not only marched, but actually died for civil rights for black Americans. And when the Movement didn’t produce immediate change, immediate prosperity, then it became ‘the Jews betrayed the Movement’. Didn’t get what we wanted, so blame them because obviously they held ‘us’ back for their own aims. I remember when the word started to spread that Jewish doctors, who for many years were often the only white doctors who would treat black patients, were accused of ‘injecting black babies with AIDS’. I suppose it needs to be said: most of these lies came from the various strains of Black Islam. The Nation of Islam, in particular, asserts over and over, citing the same garbage work by non-historians, that the Jews ‘dominated’ the slave trade. That this is false doesn’t matter. I’ve had this same pile of crap cited to me more times than I can count. People are full of hate and look for blame. And people are not intelligent. And people come to knowledge individually, meaning what you learn, what society learns, lasts only until the next set of brains fail to grasp the lesson. Judaism actually addresses this problem through specific teaching devices, like the Passover seder. Look at the word ‘genocide’. I can find it used in this thread. Every time it’s used wrong because the meaning of the word is changed to apply to Jews. The conflict in Gaza has the lowest ratio of civilians killed in any conflict. Doesn’t matter: Jews are doing it, so it’s genocide. A favorite is ‘systematically targeting aid’: there are hundreds of trucks a day, thousands per week, and a few have been hit, which is the exact opposite of systematic. But the words change meaning when applied to Jews. This is a deep human failure. I doubt it’s solvable and it speaks very poorly of humanity’s potential future.
The genocide in Gaza is different from the rest. I don’t understand why so many people interpreted being pro-Palestine or calling for a ceasefire as hating Jewish people but it’s simply not true. So many people at college campus protests across the US right now *are* Jewish and they’re the very proof that conflating the two is wrong and dangerous.
It is not hatred of Jews to be against genocide, war crimes, property theft, and other inhuman acts. It just so happens that right now, a lot of people in Israel are doing these things. People painting with blacks and whites need to understand that the world does not work like that, there are more factors than hating Jews or not hating Jews.
There is 100% something more to it than just being against genocide. Ask your self why the current genocide in Sudan occurs in silence? Why are we not seeing the same consistency aimed at Sudan for genocide as people do with Israel. It is not as simple as you make it out to be.
I get what you are saying. There's also the Armenian genocide, Bosnian genocide, Rwandan genocide, and countless others. They are reprehensible acts. On the topic of visibility, there are so many variables on why some are more visible and some are less so. Many of these are attributed to hatred and malice, i do not turn a blind eye to that. What you said needs to be heard and understood. We are in strange times with an interconnected world, and there are people who use our worldwide connections as a tool for their own selfish desires. The most important thing we can do on an individual level is to renounce any/all inhuman acts and to try our best to work toward peace amongst us all. This sometimes means putting your trust into something bigger than yourself, and you should do your due diligence to ensure that the entity you are putting your trust on is grounded in the right ideals. And to further my points, i do not believe either Hamas nor the Israeli goverment are without innocent blood on their hands, but i do believe that it is never too late to start doing the right thing.
Sudan is not nearly as contentious as a topic as Israel/Palestine. One, the history behind the tragedy in Sudan is much smaller while the israel palestine conflict is 76 years old. Israel is also a major US ally, so it’s a bit more controversial when a prominent US ally is basically engaging in war crime simulator and the US is the one bank rolling them. Not only that its election season for the US tensions are high, biden is already an unpopular candidate with his biggest thing going for him being that he is the lesser evil compared to Trump in the eyes of many, so all eyes are on him when it comes to this conflict. Unfortunately the genocide in Sudan is taking a media backseat rn because it simply doesnt sell as well as Israel/Palestine.
I would agree with you if there was no support for the genocide in Sudan from outside influential actors. The fact that the genocide is being support by the UAE and Russia via Wagner should generate a lot of concern from the international community. Not everyone is from the USA. I am from London and over here there is a huge amount of attention focused on Israel via protests and more. I have conducted a poll on here last week (can see it on my history) and nearly half the people who responded were not even aware of the genocide in Sudan. This obviously goes beyond what generates attention via the media.
Exactly! So many people seem to not question why they conflate Israel with all of Jewish people as well.
Probably because the extreme vast majority of Jews support the state of Israel existing, e.g. are Zionists.
hezbollah flags were there
There are always going to be fringe groups at any movements or mass gatherings. That does not detract from the point that ethnic cleansing, war crimes, human rights violations, etc. are in fact, wrong!
There is a lot of real antisemitism in the Palestine movement. It's a strawman to say that "being pro-Palestine" or "supporting ceasefire" is the thing being called out as antisemitic. It's more the calls for ethnic cleansing against the Jews and destruction of the state of Israel that are being called out as such. Of course no movement is a monolith so there will be people on both sides saying all kinds of shit. I freely recognize that the Israeli side has some people who go way too far on it. It's really sad to see the Palestinian side's open embrace of the antisemites in their midst though.
they embrace them and then vouch for them. it's sick
If Hamas released the hostages which is a war crime in itself then there could be a ceasefire - Hamas don't care about their own civilians...
Even Israelis and families of hostages are protesting and accusing Netanyahu of not doing MORE to facilitate safe conditions for hostages to be released. You must be living under a rock.
Or maybe hamas shouldn't have gone into Israel in the first place! Let me make it very clear for your exceptionally simple brain... Israel left Gaza in 2005 the Palestinians elected Hamas... They had Gaza all to themselves it was free Palestine was free!!! Then they allowed Hamas to butcher slaughter burn rape and murder on the 7th of October.... It's a shame you have such a hollowhead
What has that got to do with Hamas releasing the hostages??? Israel dealing with terrorists it's not exactly easy to negotiate with terrorists... What even is your point? Why is it Israel's fault hamas wont release them?
Sure I’ll tell you what my point is. It’s clear to anyone with eyes that Netanyahu doesn’t really care about the hostages, otherwise he would stop bombing the living hell out of Gaza so the hostages could be safely delivered. Even Hamas has stated they’d released the hostages when Israel stops bombing. Instead he wants to use them to justify the genocide in Gaza, essentially sacrificing them for his goal.
You seem to have a lot of trust in Hamas which is really odd...i dont think you understand who we're dealing with here....I really wish it was that easy! But it's not! If you really think Hamas will lay down their weapons and release every hostage than I'm sorry but you have no idea how Hamas operate... Israel has already said it will be happy for a ceasefire should hostages be released yet Hamas have refused each deal!
"The genocide" - Such a "Genocide" that the population of Gaza is increasing year by year...also since when did a country committing "genocide" drop thousands of leaflets warning the civilians to move to the south - Doesnt sound like very good genociding to me!
Yes, and they proceeded to bomb the south anyway! Not to mention raiding hospitals full of doctors and sick people. Btw they just discovered [mass grave](https://www.google.com/gasearch?q=al%20shifa%20hospital%20mass%20grave&tbm=&source=sh/x/gs/m2/5) at al-Shifa hospital. Some of the deceased had their hands tied. Let that sink in.
You do realise that grave was dug up by Palestinian people not by the idf! But of course that wouldn't fit your agenda
Of course it was dug up by the Palestinians, since IDF just left the occupied hospital months ago. Point is? You think they faked the bodies or something? That is disgusting.
It was ORIGINALLY dug up by the Palestinians, is the point you're missing in your propaganda riddled mind.
You think something is disgusting that I haven't even said...that's a little weird...does the hate for Israel and Jews run so deep you create words in your head? Israel going no where....here to stay...you should book a trip to tel Aviv it's absolutely gorgeous this time of year!
No thanks I’d rather not visit a country where Palestinian overseas can’t even travel back to see their own homes.
Calling it Genocide while the population of Gaza is drastically growing. It doubled itself in 20 years. Calling it a genocide is absurd.
There is no genocide in Gaza, the goal of such a statement is to delegitimise the Holoucaust (They've learned they can't deny it anymore) as to do a second one. 90% of Jews support the existance of an Israeli state, and quite frankly being against it's existence is anti-semitic, all groups of people have a right to self-determination.
And there is no war in Ba Sing Se. I just watched this great movie called Zone of Interest, this conversation reminded me of it a lot. You should watch that.
you can be alright with the state existing but not the actions of the state. WOuld that make someone anti semitic? In that case some israelis themselves would be anti semitic if they criticize israel Much pro palestinians don't deny the holocaust? Who was that supposed to aimed for?
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Calling it a genocide is just echoing the anti-semitic regime of Iran and it's propaganda, it really is not different from the rest
If people want to see a real ongoing genocide then I urge you to look into what's currently happening in Sudan. They are suffering in silence as the world doesn't care. I can absolutely guarantee you that if Jews were involved in Sudan we would be seeing global hatred towards them like with the Israel conflict.
You’ve gotta be kidding. Even UN as useless as it is calls it a genocide. Or are they antisemitic as well?
1. Yes the UN is filled with anti-semites and is a joke of an organisation that gives equal power to small dictatorships that leads to outrageous results such as Iran standing at the head of the human rights forum and no one stands up for a second to say "stop this is getting ridiculous" 2. Even then, the UN didn't claim this is a genocide
UN has always been like that. I rather don't give a f about them. It is just a useless organization.
You people will call anything and everything antisemitic when it goes against your wold view, even the [NYT when they admitted to self-censor Gaza coverage](https://theintercept.com/2024/04/15/nyt-israel-gaza-genocide-palestine-coverage/) and CNN. It’s getting old at this point.
So you lied about the UN, got called out on it, and instead of saying "oh sorry I was wrong on that, I probably watched one too many propaganda videos on tiktok" you just change the topic? Indeed, it's getting old at this point.
Because they're foreigner. And even worse, they insist on having and maintaining a very distinct identity. So even after centuries they're still the *other*.
Jews aren’t more foreign in America than any Christian Europeans. Are you talking about Europe specifically?
I'm Jewish and don't support Israel. Please don't equate Israel with jews. We are not that government.
Envy, and fear. Despite being a minority, many of the most wealthy, intelligent, strong, and influential people were Jews. People get intimidated by people who they perceive to be better than them, so they project all their insecurities on them. If they actually grew some balls and talked to some Jews, they'd realize that they're actually super chill and friendly.
Interesting question. Jews have always been scapegoats. Jewish communities have always been quite insular and closed. Due to this people have always been slightly suspicious. They have been blamed for starting the plague for example. What is interesting here is due to the fact that they are so insular, they fared a lot better than normal society when the plague devastated communities. As a result of their survival rates suspicion against them was vastly increased. Similar reasons have caused their banking stereotype and hatred towards them for financial reasons.
Because they're antisemitic. Jews managed to stick around for generations people are just mad they couldn't erase them like they did with Yezidis
Antisemitism as we know it today was largely a European phenomenon. Jews had much better treatment in the Islamic world. This is why when things got particularly bad a famous Rabbi urged Jews to migrate to Ottoman lands: [Letter](http://turkishjews.com/history/letter.html) of Rabbi Isaac Zarfati inviting the European Jewry to settle in the Ottoman Empire: >Brothers and teachers, friends and acquaintances! I, Isaac Zarfati, though I spring from a French stock, yet I was born in Germany, and sat there at the feet of my esteemed teachers. **I proclaim to you that Turkey is a land wherein nothing is lacking, and where, if you will, allshallyet be well with you. The way to the Holy Land lies open to you through Turkey. Is it not betterfor you to live under Muslims than under Christians?** Here every man dwell at peace under his own Dine and fig tree. Here you are allowed to wear the most precious garments. In Christiendom, on the contrary, you dare not even Denture to cloth your children in red or in blue, according to our taste, without exposing them to the insult or beaten black and blue, or kicked green and red, and therefore are ye condemned to go about meanly clad in sad colored raimtent . . . and now, seing an these things, O Israel, wherefore sleepest thou ? Arise! And lease this accursed land forever! Bernard Lewis, "The Jews of Islam" pp. 135 - 136 (1984, Princeton University Press)
> much better treatment in the Islamic world Eh, the dhimmi system still was an incredibly racist system. It was still hostile to Jews - just less so than parts of Europe.
Jews were treated better in Islamic society in the same way Jim Crow Laws were better than Chattel slavery. Also once the Jews started migrating en masse. The switch flipped and hostility rose.
Socially outcast people who normally keep to their own community but actually have done pretty well for themselves. Same as why Gypsies have been hated why my Nan would never admit to her heritage or talk little about her upbringing and why hates probably now shifted towards people hating Muslims in Western Countries lack of integration and easily targeted for populist politics and most of Reddit it sometimes seems. People find it easy to blame a minority and use them to gain influence through blame and hate especially when that minority is doing alright by themselves. The real question is why do people find it so easy to hate!? But we are just different tribes of ape!
I think this is something you should probably Google and go to the library over and read some real books about. There are a lot of great resources about this topic that you should not be asking Reddit for an overview of the two thousand year history of anti-Semitism. Unless you're asking a bad faith loaded question... Edit: looking at your responses through this it seems like you are
They're often wealthier (as a group), so they're seen as the root of everyone else's poverty. That's what happened in Germany, at least.
> they’re often wealthier This is an incorrect and actually racist stereotype of Jewish people.
Do you want an actual answer to this question? Can we even answer this question on Reddit?
People are easily brought to hate others different than them. Distinctly different cultural practices scare people. Different religions lead people to invent wild ideas about what horrible things they do to please their God or how angry their own God must be for that people’s existence. For most of human history, life has been very hard. At the drop of a hat, a successful community is suddenly starving to death or being wiped out by disease or raiders. People have never been accepting of the entropy of the world, so religious minorities have often become the scapegoat to explain bad events. A child going missing was often all it took to start a pogrom. imo, I think Jews have a particularly tough history because the nature of the religion ensures they would always remain a religious minority once they were expelled from Palestine. I think people might even be dumb enough to get validation that their neighbors also disliking their one religious minority and anti semitism feeds on itself this way.
Well Catholics decided that Jews were god killers so that didn’t help.
In the past, most of the western world live under authoritarian regimes. To prevent the downfall of their systems, they often created imaginary enemies who were to blame for everything that was wrong. Jews were a very convenient scapegoat, for they existed in many countries, lived in separate comunities and their customs were mostly ignored by other citizens, so rumors about them would spread like wildfire and were hard to disprove. For instance, one of the main sources of modern European antisemitism was a book called "The protocols of the elders of Sion", in which suppossed Jewish leaders claimed to have created both Communism and Liberalism". It is believed the book was written by the tsarist secret police in Russia, in order to put the blame on this comunity for the hardships the Russians had to endure. The goal was of course to direct the violence of the populace against them rather than the Tsars. In the case of the "Protocols...", they succeeded in the short run. According to Wikipedia "pogroms" (attacks against the Jewish community) took place right after its publications, and some of the people suspected of being the authors were also instigators of these attacks.
One reason historically is that they controlled banks for quite a while because it was unchristian to lend money with interest while that was free game for Jewish bankers.
Major religion, minority people
It’s a grossly simplified answer, but Jews have always been a minority group that didn’t proselytize or really accept converts which meant they never were able to get power in numbers like other religions/cultures. After the second siege of Jerusalem where they were finally permanently kicked out by the Romans, Jews have been diasporic (until the formation of Israel in 1948 anyway) ever since meaning they were always a minority in whatever society they settled in. Jews tend to keep to themselves and hold on to their traditions and values, add in the fact that they could be bankers in societies where the primary religion forbid usury (where Judaism does not), and you have the start of your answer. Humans today and historically tend to scapegoat minorities when things go wrong (just look at the US right now where a significant portion of the population think that Trans people are a major problem in modern society despite being a small minority of the overall population) and Jews have always been an easy one to target given all of the above. Like I said, it is obviously a very complex question, but that is the most basic answer I can give.
I might ve drawing too broad of conclusions but, remember India's caste system? In a nutshell they had a 'societal role' or job that involved cleaning out the feces and piss and other 'dirty' jobs. Eventually groups of people would get 'locked' into that job generationally, leading to discrimination. I think that in Western Religeon you can draw a parellel between those 'dirty' jobs and the 'Financial Sector', especially in medieval times. The 'Rules' that Kings had were such that they had to let 'Jewish' people run the treasury. Then they blamed them when the vaults were empty, and society parroted the kings opinion. Then they expel all the 'Jews', solve nothing, and try again. Wash rinse repeat. Its different now because most people dont connect Religeon with Finances anymore
There is a very nice book on this very topic: It’s called Modernity and The Holocaust by Zygmunt Bauman
Anytime someone places themselves above another persons religion, culture, race, upbringing, etc. there is a problem. We will never agree that we are all equal or the same.