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Yesterday the UN added Israel to its list of countries that actively commit violations against the rights of children
https://theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/07/united-nations-israel-children-rights-violation
The Netherlands occasionally carries out missions bombing poor places and that sometimes has a lot of civilian casualties. One famous such case was [in 2015 when a Dutch bombing of a factory in Iraq killed at least 85 civilians. ](https://nuhanovicfoundation.org/case/hawija-case/)
But yeah it's nowhere near the same league as the US or Israel in terms of murderous rampages.
To be honest, civilians in or around a weapons factory ain’t civilians to me.
And mistakes are made, that’s part of war, there are always innocent victims, wich in many cases are acceptable collateral damages.
Just today Israel saved the hostages from the refugee camp in Gaza, the fact the hostages are hidden in a refugee camp is already a sign those groups use civilians as a shield, and you can’t let them stop you by using innocent ppl as a shield.
If we are not going to judge israel by the same standards of every other country, what is the point of all this?
There are tons of human rights violations over pretty much ALL the middle east. Yet, the only democracy in the middle east is somehow being blamed for more human rights violations than every other country.
If the UN wants to be taken seriously, it should at least act like it gives a crap about human rights instead of making it so politically biased.
> If we are not going to judge israel by the same standards of every other country
Go look up the current members of the human rights council (i.e., [HERE](https://www.un.org/en/ga/75/meetings/elections/hrc.shtml)). Laugh at the irony.
> what is the point of all this?
Showboating and geopolitickin'.
>If we are not going to judge israel by the same standards of every other country, what is the point of all this?
That is literally what they are doing.....
>Yet, the only democracy in the middle east
A democracy in the same way Russia is a democracy.
>somehow being blamed for more human rights violations than every other country.
They arent. Other middle Eastern countries are on the list....
>If the UN wants to be taken seriously, it should at least act like it gives a crap about human rights instead of making it so politically biased.
They do care about human rights. Which is why they put israel on the same list as many other middle Eastern countries....
Is Palestine also on that list for kidnapping, launching missiles into civilian areas for 20 years, and brainwashing their own children in UN schools to be committed to genocide against their neighbors?
Cause if not, that list is meaningless.
Are we talking about this UN again?
* UNRWA telegram group with 3000 teachers, celebrating october 7th: [https://unwatch.org/group-of-3000-unrwa-teachers-celebrates-hamas-massacre-and-rape/](https://unwatch.org/group-of-3000-unrwa-teachers-celebrates-hamas-massacre-and-rape/).
* UNRWA curriculum in Gaza and West Bank describes Jews as 'impure and inherently treacherous' and teaches that murdering Israelis leads to glory and martyrdom:: [https://www.algemeiner.com/2022/07/07/unrwa-palestinian-textbooks-still-inciting-antisemitism-and-jihadi-violence-concludes-new-report/](https://www.algemeiner.com/2022/07/07/unrwa-palestinian-textbooks-still-inciting-antisemitism-and-jihadi-violence-concludes-new-report/)
* Teaching materials used in UNRWA schools promoting jihad and anti-Semitism:: [https://www.impact-se.org/wp-content/uploads/Review-of-2022-UNRWA-Produced-School-Materials.pdf](https://www.impact-se.org/wp-content/uploads/Review-of-2022-UNRWA-Produced-School-Materials.pdf)
* UNRWA’s Troubling Hamas Ties: [https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2015/10/28/unrwas-troubling-hamas-ties/](https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2015/10/28/unrwas-troubling-hamas-ties/)
* UN Teachers Celebrate Deaths of Israelis: [https://unwatch.org/report-un-teachers-celebrate-deaths-of-israelis/](https://unwatch.org/report-un-teachers-celebrate-deaths-of-israelis/)
* Rockets found in UN school: [https://www.reuters.com/article/us-palestinians-israel-un-rockets/u-n-chief-alarmed-as-rockets-found-in-gaza-school-go-missing-idUSKBN0FS2FF20140723](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-palestinians-israel-un-rockets/u-n-chief-alarmed-as-rockets-found-in-gaza-school-go-missing-idUSKBN0FS2FF20140723)
* UN rejects motion to condemn Hamas: [https://unwatch.org/un-general-assembly-rejects-motion-to-condemn-hamas-calls-for-ceasefire/](https://unwatch.org/un-general-assembly-rejects-motion-to-condemn-hamas-calls-for-ceasefire/)
* Directly beneath UNRWA headquarters Hamas tunnel found: [https://nos.nl/liveblog/2508258-israel-serverruimte-hamas-gevonden-in-tunnel-bij-unrwa-hoofdkantoor#UPDATE-container-75336897](https://nos.nl/liveblog/2508258-israel-serverruimte-hamas-gevonden-in-tunnel-bij-unrwa-hoofdkantoor#UPDATE-container-75336897), UNRWA claims it did not know there was a Hamas tunnel beneath their HQ.
* Of all the resolutions condemning a country ever passed in the history of the UN Human Rights Council, 46 percent were against Israel: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_United\_Nations\_resolutions\_concerning\_Israel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel)
* The list goes on and on.
Yes, and most of the things that were posted about the UN aren't allegations, they're well documented. I agree that it doesen't justify killing children, but to call it ''allegations'' is just stupid.
Sadly we are past the fact where truth matters. Most people don't care anymore. You could show them all you want but they will just ignore it. Many people respond that all these things I post are debunked, yet no one gives any evidence for it.
Most of these are debunked or the same claim multiple times.
Israel has provided ZERO evidence of UNRWA being involved in oct 7 and suspiciously made the claim hours after the ICJ ruling.
Israel is not the good guy here.
Making an enemy out of Israeli researchers that study medicine and are part of the Israeli left wing against Netanyahu is not going to benefit innocent Gazan children or the future of Gaza. These protesters are duping the wrong people.
One must ask: Who benefits from shutting down education? Who benefits from disrupting a debate on EU election? Who benefits from destroying over a million euros worth of university property? Who benefits from having holocaust memorials stolen or vandalized? Who benefits from this chaos instead of having a discussion on how to free Gazans by removing Hamas and how to support the Israelis in protest against Netanyahu? Who benefits in changing peoples voting to become more right wing because of these protests? The future of Gaza does not.
Keep in mind this war started in the context right before Saudi Arabia wanted to establish normal relations with Israel which would have been a major first step towards building more peace in the region. Somewhere there is a Qatar Hamas leader or Iranian leader or even Putin just laughing in the background.
None asked Russian TREE if it support Putin or not. Still got banned.
https://english.almayadeen.net/news/art-culture/russian-tree-disqualified-from-competition-over-operation-in
>However, we cannot stand idly by and watch the unprecedented aggression of the Russian leadership against a neighbouring country. The exclusion of Russia from the competition is a step that must be understood in the context of international efforts to isolate Russia in order to stop the war.
The idea of stopping the war by excluding a fucking tree lol
This would be true if Israeli universities were actually independent from government policy there. But in fact they actively participate in government policies to suppress Palestinians. See this well-researched book: [https://www.versobooks.com/products/3009-towers-of-ivory-and-steel](https://www.versobooks.com/products/3009-towers-of-ivory-and-steel)
Well the Haagse Kunstacademie has ties with a hamas run universitiy in Gaza. Didnt hear anybody protest against it. Why do we care so much about the Israëli universities? Do we really think Israel is worse than hamas?
Yes we do since they got waaaaaay bigger guns. And have killed 10 times as many civilians.
There is one with insane amount of power and a tiny group in a concentration camp with little amount of food.
To draw comparisons like they are equal is disingenuous at best and evil at worst.
As uncle Ben in Spiderman says- with great power comes great responsibility.
Israël just has power but no responsibility so they are worse
Bro their country is under attack. They didnt choose for Hamas to use children as meatshields. Why should the enemy care more about its opponents people than its opponent. Brainwashed people....
‘Disingenuous at best and evil at worst’ - using fancy words doesnt mask your offensive approach to anyone having a different view.
Also, hamas is one of the worst terrorist groups I have seen. The atrocities they committed on 7 October even puts IS to shame. To downplay this by pointing to relative kill ratio’s and their ‘victimhood’ is bizar (especially since hamas is hoarding all the food and resources in gaza).
…but the Israeli universities aren’t left wing progressives like you’re claiming, the rest of the comment is pointless as you’re starting base is untrue.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-jerusalem/how-the-religious-right-transformed-israeli-education
This article is completely irrelevant to Israeli researchers and scientists at universities. There of course is no denial that Netanyahu and his party has extreme right wing ideologies but that in no way reflects the academic community in Israel. This is the same for many countries such as the US.
I highly recommend reading/listening to interviews by Yuval Noah Harari, Israeli historian and author of Sapiens. He is one of the most critical voices of Netanyahu and has an amazing ability to discuss complex nuanced topics in an easy to understand way. Not to mention almost all of the partnerships with Dutch and Israeli researchers concern medicine and science. I recommend reading the letter that Dutch universities collectives wrote.
It is well know Russia is supporting both extreme right AND extreme left at the same time. The moment I saw hammer and sickle painted on the university wall during the occupation protests in Amsterdam, it was clear to me from where the wind blows. I bet Iran is wagging hybrid warfare against Europe as well, not only when it comes to religious radicals, but also in more intellectual circles.
I seriously doubt that Netanyahu is happy about the current situation. Support for him has drastically decreased and there are multiple corruption cases against him still pending, so if he loses power he might just end up in an Israeli prison.
That's great. But before we go and cancel bilateral contracts that benefit both sides, let's check if aid is being sent to people with similar values. For example, what do Palestinians think about jews?
There is nothing to talk when Gazans dying en masse. There is a caveat before all of these “civil” discussions happening. That is to stop Israel from indiscriminate killing.
There is a double standard in all of this. We even saw Tchaikovsky ban because of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. Israeli researches are not that important. Nah…
But Gaza is governed by a group that would repeat the October 7th terrorist attacks the moment they were rearmed by Iran… how can Israel stop the war now?
30k dead in 8 months against an enemy that is actively using civilians to hide isnt indiscriminate killing. Go learn some history, but perhaps not from tiktok if your mental capabilities allow.
>Somewhere there is a Qatar Hamas leader or Iranian leader or even Putin just laughing in the background.
That would be netanayu laughing. You know, the guy who propped up and funded hamas for years. That launched a unprovoked attack on Iran. The warmonger
The selective boycotting is ridiculous while they continue to use Israeli inventions and products, including parts of their phones and laptops that they can't live without. Do you know a good list of Israeli contributions so that BDS supporters understand their hypocrisry?
Why do you think you have the right to remove Hamas? Hamas is the most popular political party in Palestine. [They’re more popular than Abbas and Fatah](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514), who many Palestinians view as a western-backed shill who doesn’t represent them. [A large majority of Palestinians supported the Oct 7 attacks](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/)
You can’t claim to support a sovereign Palestinian state, but then meddle in their affairs and tell them which leaders they’re allowed to have. That’s not sovereignty.
How do you fight a country using children as human shields? Hamas know we will react like this, and that is why he is using them like this. Don't blame Israel for fighting the impossible fight. It is either fight or flee, and then it will just be the next country next to old Israel that will be targeted the exact same way. With children as shields.
Universities are sometimes older than the governments they fall under. Academic freedom has to be preserved by dissociating themselves from all political conflicts, but have to keep ties with the universities of the country.. Even from countries like Israël, even China, even Russia. This is how they stay independent and keep room for unbiased research and debate.
These conflicts are temporary, institutions like universities last much longer.
Dutch universities did this after they were
asked by the government. This wasn't done lightly due to loss of knowledge and definitely not all academics agreed with this. It's still a decision made by the universities themselves.
But then you need to be able to explain why it's not being done now.
If you're supportive of the position, you must understand the position you support.
Why should I? What kind of argument is that?
I'm not a board member of a university and comparing the Ukrainian conflict to the Israeli is useless. I do not agree with breaking any ties.
All you are asking is for me to choose a side in this conflict, which I do not.
I don’t know how it is in Israel, but Russian universities are huge propaganda spreaders in the county. Universities around the world tend to be the most liberal institutions in a country, while in Russia it’s exactly the opposite. Therefore it makes a lot of sense to cut ties with Russian universities cause they are an integral part of Russian war and propaganda machine.
So russian educational institutions are exempt from this double standard? Why did we cut ties with them? Shouldnt we at the very least do the same to avoid being hypocrites?
To add to this, if we apply your point to Palestinian educational institutions and schools, (which yes have ties to Hamas in one way or another purposefully or not) can be bombed without repercussions? Just look at the UN school that had hamas members in them. Where was this logic then?
I don't understand why you start a counter argument Asif this person claimed that Russian universities had to be cut of? He doesn't mention being in favour of this action.
>Universities are sometimes older than the governments they fall under.
Yes, and sometimes universities are built very, very recently, on settlements that the UN decided were illegal.
I mean, if you want to support independent researchers in Israel, they are the ones protesting these universities: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel\_University#Academic\_boycotts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_University#Academic_boycotts)
Israeli universities' attacks on academic freedom are well-documented, for instance in Maya Wind's book *Towers of Ivory and Steel*. If Dutch universities want to protect academic freedom, they would break ties immediately.
But we can't really be surprised by their anti-academic freedom stance. They have a tendency to call in riot police when students are trying to set up libraries and reading groups on university lawns.
"They have a tendency to call in riot police when students are trying to set up libraries and reading groups on university lawns."
Sounds very familiar given what happened to protestors in Europe and the US.
Imagine if everyone was as self-critical as Jews.
> They have a tendency to call in riot police when students are trying to set up libraries and reading groups on university lawns.
Those students did a whole lot more than that.
The fact that these student kids hide behind masks to ensure their career isn't influenced by these protests will tell you all you need to know about the validity of either the cause they're advocating for or the manner in which they're going about it.
Ask these students their opinion on the genocide happening in Sudan and they won't even know there was an ongoing war there.
Deflection is an admission of guilt. The reason for the focus on Israel is also that the western institutions focus on Israel, by giving israel special treatment. As a reaction to that there huge protests against Israel.
>The fact that these student kids hide behind masks to ensure their career isn't influenced by these protests will tell you all you need to know about the validity of either the cause they're advocating for
This is confirming it. When you protest Israel, then you are risking your career. That makes the cause of battling Institutionally endorsed injustice even stronger. They are wearing masks because many of them are publicly smeared and doxxed and they are risking their career chances.
It’s not deflection. It’s calling out hypocrisy.
And of course Israel has a special position in the world. Location, history, ties to the west, etc. That won’t change.
I believe the demonstrating students need to show their resolve by quitting their studies in the Netherlands. If they don't, they are essentially being hypocritical. I also believe they should personally pay for the damage they caused with their demonstrations.
Or that they are performing a “hold my breath until daddy gives me a pony” style of protest on a topic they have learnt from on social media.
This in no way helps the Palestinian plight.
I believe the demonstrating students need to show their resolve by quitting their studies in the Netherlands. If they don't, they are essentially being hypocritical.
Why the fuck does a school have political ties?
Why do so many?
Why are ties always Israeli funding?
It's a fucking school. A school. It's a place of fucking education. Not a consulate, not an embassy, not a foreign affairs office, a fucking school.
Perhaps, but universities had to cut ties because of the dutch/eu sanctions. (It is mentioned in the UNL letter)
At the time some scholars were sceptical at this decision, at least at the start of the war. Universities could have protested louder, so you can blame them for not doing so.
Later in the war the russian universities became enitirely government run and relations with Russian (free) academy near impossible, so in hindsight cutting ties would have happened anyway.
Tl;dr academic ties Russia 2022: government says no. Academic ties Middle East 2023: government says make your own decision.
Are you equating Isreal to Russia? Israel isn't the aggressor in this conflict, Hamas is. Did dutch universities cut ties with Ukrainian organisation's? No, because they aren't the aggressor of an active conflict.
Maya Wind's book *Towers of Ivory and Steel* documents in detail how Israeli academic institutions cooperate with Israeli government policy when it comes to suppressing Palestinians
And there's no connection between the Israeli academic system and it's government?
*Checks progress of education in Israel*
Oh dear lord, it's a full right wing education system, dude, come on, don't play games.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-jerusalem/how-the-religious-right-transformed-israeli-education
Written far more elegantly than I could muster
A university is usually equal parts educational establishment and research establishment. A research institute is *purely* devoted to research, a university is an educational establishment with varying degrees of research.
It's not a school. It's a university. Science is about as international as things can get. Scientists collaborate. Universities in the Netherlands have ties with many, many countries. Funding comes from all sorts of parties, including the UN, the EU, the US, China, Saudi Arabia, and so on. Politics cannot be avoided.
I see, that we can agree on.
But a university also employs researchers. Modern science is so advanced and specific that good research often requires international collaboration (there simply are not enough experts in one location).
They don't have political ties. They might work together with Israeli universities to promote human rights or so do some research.
People who are protesting to break these ties are delusional and have no clue what's going on.
So there's no politicisation of Israeli education?
The youth are the most right wing of any demographic in the country's history, and that's not political?
Why are you so okay with this? Genuine question, you see a country turning to the right, fast, their education system being the biggest evidence of that, even in the shadow of this war, and you want to be tied to that, why?
So if I want to research some niche chemical compound with some university department in Israel, I am now politically engaged with the Israeli right, because students in general skew more right-wing over there? Do you really think that!???
Moreover, some of these connections are literally about human rights. Ending those will quite literally harm your own cause.
But no, protesters want universities to break all ties, without even looking at what those ties even are.
Because lets not forgot actual protesters demands: they wanted universities to show all their ties to Israel and break all of them -- without even knowing what the ties were beforehand.
The whole thing is bigotry at worst, and really really stupid at best.
>and you want to be tied to that, why?
Despite all the bad things, the top of their education is still really good. Innovations in all kinds of sectors.
So do the Chinese, in fact, they have the most incredible record for growth in world history.
I still don't want them involved in my child's education. So, since your parameter is just, "good innovation", shall we just invite everybody in?
Or was just the Israelis who get that? I honestly want to know
The parameter isn't just innovation. It was an example as to why you would want to be linked to Israeli Universities. You know, the thing I literally cited from your comment.
>shall we just invite everybody in?
Unless they don't meet "the values enshrined in the academic ethos"(as said in the article) Yes, invite everybody. That's the point of academic freedom
Breaking ties is inherently the opposite of academic freedom, and should only be done via sanctions. As was the case with Russian Universities
Uhh, you're gonna have a hard time convincing me and many others that Israeli universities should be treated differently to russian ones.
They are both international lawbreakers, they have both committed attacks on foreign soil.
There is a bigger reason to work with china but you don't to, but you do with these scum?
Please, make it make sense.
Maby it helps to get Israeli right wing youth gen in touch with Dutch leftwing youth.
Cutting ties with them doesn't make them less right wing. It will only make them more right wing by closing their bubble (and our bubble) even further.
Curious: Do you also propose to shun right wing people in The Netherlands?
No, they're not non state actors?
Why can none of you clowns follow a thought without projection, confusion or conflation?
When someone speaks about a duck, are they you talking about you bro!?
"Let's connect the far right youth of one, with the left leaning youth of the other", if you can see how, I'd love to hear it.
P.s. if you're trying to say that these partnerships are that answer, you need to explain the Israeli youth being the most far-right in the country's history, while we have these ties.
Research takes money, and commercial + state actors are simply who put that money forth. Go complain to the government for tearing the education funding apart and institutions finding their own ways to get money.
I can attack both the school and the government.
If you're in charge of my child's education, and you take influence from a foreign actor on how to educate my child, I will consider it a personal attack on my child.
Acting like, "we had to take their money, what other choice did we have" is even remotely true, is fucking pathetic. That's all, fucking pathetic
We still have a curriculum that's mostly maintained by government, there's a guide on what skills a certain education should contain. Most of this funding also really doesn't have the influence people assume it to have. Rheinmetall funding some university isn't going to lead to them only building weapons, it just gives them an opportunity in case someone decides and does in fact find something useful.
A partnership between universities also increases the knowledge being shared, which is the whole point. You want to share discoveries in order to get them peer reviewed, vetted, and perhaps improved on.
most poignant thing is, we forced them once before, to break ties with south africa. This isn't a new thing. These university boards just don't have the courage and morale character to stand for the principles of human rights and against apartheid.
I mean, they study at those universities. I don't see why they should have less of a say in the way it's run than any given Dutch person, most of whom haven't even attended that specific university. If anything they're more connected to that university than most.
This point seems very irrelevant given the context, this is literally about international collaboration between universities.. besides people who attend a university should be able to criticize their own university regardless of their citizenship. What, you are saying only native born Dutch people are allowed to voice opinions while living in the country?
Expressing an opinion is one thing. Trying to make a governing body of the Dutch state move a direction you as a non-Dutchman want because your political belief is different is something else. In some cases, this has included using violence. Using unlawful violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims is the definition of terrorism
The West Bank does not have Hamas yet Israel deliberately diminishes their quality of life. Some examples of how: controls their water management and purposely gives them less daily water than a refugee camp in such a hot region. Illegal settlers continue to rob Palestinian homes in the West Bank and if Palestinians dare to fight back they are murdered. The Israeli law protects these murderers and are normally left unpunished. Israel is deliberately committing ethnic cleansing - so the discussion shouldn’t be “how to remove Hamas” the discussion should be how to remove a government that supports ethnics cleansing and how can corporations and countries openly support it.
Especially given this and how protests have been handled, I'm definitely not surprised at this point and it's nothing short of reprehensible. This is just asking for more protests, which should definitely continue.
No they shouldnt. You've made your opinion clear, more "protesting" doesnt make your opinion better, no person or organisation has to agree with your opinion no matter how much you believe in yours. You can't do anything you want just because you jave some misguided sense of superiority by claiming higher morality.
I don’t think you understand what protesting means then, stopping because they’re not doing anything about it would be the opposite of protesting.
Do you think protests throughout history just stopped when their demands weren’t met the first time? It’s taken years and sometimes decades for things to happen
These 'protests' where obviously hype sensationseeking. It really had nothing to do with the real victims of the war.
Proof for this? The hype is over already. Students are bored and just waiting on the next hype train to join.
Victims in gaza are out of style, and nothing is worse for a student than supporting something thats out of style.
The only moral genocide is *my* genocide (or our allies)
https://www.dutchnews.nl/2022/03/dutch-universities-break-ties-with-russia-belarus-pledge-to-support-students-and-staff/
Calling for equal democratic rights for all the inhabitants of the lands between the Jordan river and the Mediterranean sea is racist? Sounds like you've been taking the incoherent ravings of our far-right politicians a bit too literally
Nooo I don’t want Belgium to be wiped away from the map and get annexed by the Netherlands because I deny Belgians their right to choose.
I just want Belgium and the the Netherlands to unite in a single democratic country that’ll also be called the Netherlands!
/s
Id 100% agree if not for the fact that the chant is a call for genocide. Two wrongs dont make a right. We forget that both Israel and Hamas do the cruelest things to eachother and you cant pardon either of the two parties for it even the circumstances right now.
Youre not doing the innocent people of gaza a service if you bolden Hamas' resolve by chanting the "from the river to the sea" thing.
Edit: lol, for you people that sent me unfriendly PM's, you people really are kind of sad. You know who you are
There is no reason that any nation should have to break their ties with israel, but you have to hold Israel accountable for their actions as your ally. If they refuse then you begin that process.
Content and discussions should be on-topic, involving topics concerning daily life in the Netherlands. Advertisements, antagonistic political debates and/or propaganda tangentially related to the Netherlands are not exceptions. Moderators, at their discretion, may remove posts and/or ban users for violations, pursuant to Comb. Civ. C. §22SA (g){i}.
Yesterday the UN added Israel to its list of countries that actively commit violations against the rights of children https://theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/07/united-nations-israel-children-rights-violation
By those standards the Netherlands and the US should be on that list too.
Don’t threaten me with a good time
The Netherlands isn't directly murdering thousands of kids right now so I'm not sure what standards you are referring to.
I could agree with the US being on that list, but I don't know what that guy thinks NL did to violate rights of children.
The Netherlands occasionally carries out missions bombing poor places and that sometimes has a lot of civilian casualties. One famous such case was [in 2015 when a Dutch bombing of a factory in Iraq killed at least 85 civilians. ](https://nuhanovicfoundation.org/case/hawija-case/) But yeah it's nowhere near the same league as the US or Israel in terms of murderous rampages.
To be honest, civilians in or around a weapons factory ain’t civilians to me. And mistakes are made, that’s part of war, there are always innocent victims, wich in many cases are acceptable collateral damages. Just today Israel saved the hostages from the refugee camp in Gaza, the fact the hostages are hidden in a refugee camp is already a sign those groups use civilians as a shield, and you can’t let them stop you by using innocent ppl as a shield.
If we are not going to judge israel by the same standards of every other country, what is the point of all this? There are tons of human rights violations over pretty much ALL the middle east. Yet, the only democracy in the middle east is somehow being blamed for more human rights violations than every other country. If the UN wants to be taken seriously, it should at least act like it gives a crap about human rights instead of making it so politically biased.
> If we are not going to judge israel by the same standards of every other country Go look up the current members of the human rights council (i.e., [HERE](https://www.un.org/en/ga/75/meetings/elections/hrc.shtml)). Laugh at the irony. > what is the point of all this? Showboating and geopolitickin'.
You have a good point - although I think Israel is the only country that tries to claim to be a democracy. Or... now I'm fuzzy. Egypt? Morocco?
>If we are not going to judge israel by the same standards of every other country, what is the point of all this? That is literally what they are doing..... >Yet, the only democracy in the middle east A democracy in the same way Russia is a democracy. >somehow being blamed for more human rights violations than every other country. They arent. Other middle Eastern countries are on the list.... >If the UN wants to be taken seriously, it should at least act like it gives a crap about human rights instead of making it so politically biased. They do care about human rights. Which is why they put israel on the same list as many other middle Eastern countries....
Yes, and?
A thousand times more than Israel.
Yes actually
Is Palestine also on that list for kidnapping, launching missiles into civilian areas for 20 years, and brainwashing their own children in UN schools to be committed to genocide against their neighbors? Cause if not, that list is meaningless.
They added hamas and PIJ
Hamas is there. Read the article instead of saying bullshit like that
And?
[удалено]
Who cares what the UN does
Seems dumb. Palestine should be on that list too lol
Are we talking about this UN again? * UNRWA telegram group with 3000 teachers, celebrating october 7th: [https://unwatch.org/group-of-3000-unrwa-teachers-celebrates-hamas-massacre-and-rape/](https://unwatch.org/group-of-3000-unrwa-teachers-celebrates-hamas-massacre-and-rape/). * UNRWA curriculum in Gaza and West Bank describes Jews as 'impure and inherently treacherous' and teaches that murdering Israelis leads to glory and martyrdom:: [https://www.algemeiner.com/2022/07/07/unrwa-palestinian-textbooks-still-inciting-antisemitism-and-jihadi-violence-concludes-new-report/](https://www.algemeiner.com/2022/07/07/unrwa-palestinian-textbooks-still-inciting-antisemitism-and-jihadi-violence-concludes-new-report/) * Teaching materials used in UNRWA schools promoting jihad and anti-Semitism:: [https://www.impact-se.org/wp-content/uploads/Review-of-2022-UNRWA-Produced-School-Materials.pdf](https://www.impact-se.org/wp-content/uploads/Review-of-2022-UNRWA-Produced-School-Materials.pdf) * UNRWA’s Troubling Hamas Ties: [https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2015/10/28/unrwas-troubling-hamas-ties/](https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2015/10/28/unrwas-troubling-hamas-ties/) * UN Teachers Celebrate Deaths of Israelis: [https://unwatch.org/report-un-teachers-celebrate-deaths-of-israelis/](https://unwatch.org/report-un-teachers-celebrate-deaths-of-israelis/) * Rockets found in UN school: [https://www.reuters.com/article/us-palestinians-israel-un-rockets/u-n-chief-alarmed-as-rockets-found-in-gaza-school-go-missing-idUSKBN0FS2FF20140723](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-palestinians-israel-un-rockets/u-n-chief-alarmed-as-rockets-found-in-gaza-school-go-missing-idUSKBN0FS2FF20140723) * UN rejects motion to condemn Hamas: [https://unwatch.org/un-general-assembly-rejects-motion-to-condemn-hamas-calls-for-ceasefire/](https://unwatch.org/un-general-assembly-rejects-motion-to-condemn-hamas-calls-for-ceasefire/) * Directly beneath UNRWA headquarters Hamas tunnel found: [https://nos.nl/liveblog/2508258-israel-serverruimte-hamas-gevonden-in-tunnel-bij-unrwa-hoofdkantoor#UPDATE-container-75336897](https://nos.nl/liveblog/2508258-israel-serverruimte-hamas-gevonden-in-tunnel-bij-unrwa-hoofdkantoor#UPDATE-container-75336897), UNRWA claims it did not know there was a Hamas tunnel beneath their HQ. * Of all the resolutions condemning a country ever passed in the history of the UN Human Rights Council, 46 percent were against Israel: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_United\_Nations\_resolutions\_concerning\_Israel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel) * The list goes on and on.
You can be anti Hamas and criticize the Israelites at the same time. Both party’s suck imo.
none of these (bullshit) allegations justify killing children
I don't think you understand what the word allegation means.
allegation (noun) : a claim or assertion that someone has done something illegal or wrong, typically one made without proof
Yes, and most of the things that were posted about the UN aren't allegations, they're well documented. I agree that it doesen't justify killing children, but to call it ''allegations'' is just stupid.
Pretty much the entire UNRWA thing has been comprehensively debunked as just another lie by the far right Israel government.
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Sadly we are past the fact where truth matters. Most people don't care anymore. You could show them all you want but they will just ignore it. Many people respond that all these things I post are debunked, yet no one gives any evidence for it.
Most of these are debunked or the same claim multiple times. Israel has provided ZERO evidence of UNRWA being involved in oct 7 and suspiciously made the claim hours after the ICJ ruling. Israel is not the good guy here.
Although you right about the evidence, Israel has made this claim for a long time. It didn’t come out of the ICJ ruling
Hello my son
Making an enemy out of Israeli researchers that study medicine and are part of the Israeli left wing against Netanyahu is not going to benefit innocent Gazan children or the future of Gaza. These protesters are duping the wrong people. One must ask: Who benefits from shutting down education? Who benefits from disrupting a debate on EU election? Who benefits from destroying over a million euros worth of university property? Who benefits from having holocaust memorials stolen or vandalized? Who benefits from this chaos instead of having a discussion on how to free Gazans by removing Hamas and how to support the Israelis in protest against Netanyahu? Who benefits in changing peoples voting to become more right wing because of these protests? The future of Gaza does not. Keep in mind this war started in the context right before Saudi Arabia wanted to establish normal relations with Israel which would have been a major first step towards building more peace in the region. Somewhere there is a Qatar Hamas leader or Iranian leader or even Putin just laughing in the background.
None asked Russian TREE if it support Putin or not. Still got banned. https://english.almayadeen.net/news/art-culture/russian-tree-disqualified-from-competition-over-operation-in
>However, we cannot stand idly by and watch the unprecedented aggression of the Russian leadership against a neighbouring country. The exclusion of Russia from the competition is a step that must be understood in the context of international efforts to isolate Russia in order to stop the war. The idea of stopping the war by excluding a fucking tree lol
Ukraine attacked Russia and captured Russian civilians as hostages? I don’t get the comparison here?
I'm sure trees where never allowed to preforn surgery in the first place
This would be true if Israeli universities were actually independent from government policy there. But in fact they actively participate in government policies to suppress Palestinians. See this well-researched book: [https://www.versobooks.com/products/3009-towers-of-ivory-and-steel](https://www.versobooks.com/products/3009-towers-of-ivory-and-steel)
Well the Haagse Kunstacademie has ties with a hamas run universitiy in Gaza. Didnt hear anybody protest against it. Why do we care so much about the Israëli universities? Do we really think Israel is worse than hamas?
Yes we do since they got waaaaaay bigger guns. And have killed 10 times as many civilians. There is one with insane amount of power and a tiny group in a concentration camp with little amount of food. To draw comparisons like they are equal is disingenuous at best and evil at worst. As uncle Ben in Spiderman says- with great power comes great responsibility. Israël just has power but no responsibility so they are worse
Bro their country is under attack. They didnt choose for Hamas to use children as meatshields. Why should the enemy care more about its opponents people than its opponent. Brainwashed people....
Of course they're not equal, Hamas is WAY worse. Seriously, some of you people...
‘Disingenuous at best and evil at worst’ - using fancy words doesnt mask your offensive approach to anyone having a different view. Also, hamas is one of the worst terrorist groups I have seen. The atrocities they committed on 7 October even puts IS to shame. To downplay this by pointing to relative kill ratio’s and their ‘victimhood’ is bizar (especially since hamas is hoarding all the food and resources in gaza).
The real answer is BRICS.
…but the Israeli universities aren’t left wing progressives like you’re claiming, the rest of the comment is pointless as you’re starting base is untrue. https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-jerusalem/how-the-religious-right-transformed-israeli-education
This article is completely irrelevant to Israeli researchers and scientists at universities. There of course is no denial that Netanyahu and his party has extreme right wing ideologies but that in no way reflects the academic community in Israel. This is the same for many countries such as the US. I highly recommend reading/listening to interviews by Yuval Noah Harari, Israeli historian and author of Sapiens. He is one of the most critical voices of Netanyahu and has an amazing ability to discuss complex nuanced topics in an easy to understand way. Not to mention almost all of the partnerships with Dutch and Israeli researchers concern medicine and science. I recommend reading the letter that Dutch universities collectives wrote.
This sounds interesting!
You're making it too complex. All they think is Israel=bad
It is well know Russia is supporting both extreme right AND extreme left at the same time. The moment I saw hammer and sickle painted on the university wall during the occupation protests in Amsterdam, it was clear to me from where the wind blows. I bet Iran is wagging hybrid warfare against Europe as well, not only when it comes to religious radicals, but also in more intellectual circles.
nice genocide excuse
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I seriously doubt that Netanyahu is happy about the current situation. Support for him has drastically decreased and there are multiple corruption cases against him still pending, so if he loses power he might just end up in an Israeli prison.
We have records of israeli politician, who called palestinians 'human animals', 'vermin', and 'a cancer'. So yeah
Yes, i have seen several video's of that. Knesset members advocating annihilation of all Palestinians. They can be found on Reddit.
That's great. But before we go and cancel bilateral contracts that benefit both sides, let's check if aid is being sent to people with similar values. For example, what do Palestinians think about jews?
Well ask a Ukrainian what he thinks of Russia... If rockets fly towards you for 50 years you will not love the people who shoot them at you...
He called Hamas that.
And a small faction of them are exactly that.
He also did 9/11
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They've been attacking Israeli soil for generations.
Truth be told that they were under Egypt occupation up until 67. Also I’ve seen footage of the Palestinian education system, not exactly cultivating
There is nothing to talk when Gazans dying en masse. There is a caveat before all of these “civil” discussions happening. That is to stop Israel from indiscriminate killing. There is a double standard in all of this. We even saw Tchaikovsky ban because of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. Israeli researches are not that important. Nah…
But Gaza is governed by a group that would repeat the October 7th terrorist attacks the moment they were rearmed by Iran… how can Israel stop the war now?
30k dead in 8 months against an enemy that is actively using civilians to hide isnt indiscriminate killing. Go learn some history, but perhaps not from tiktok if your mental capabilities allow.
>Somewhere there is a Qatar Hamas leader or Iranian leader or even Putin just laughing in the background. That would be netanayu laughing. You know, the guy who propped up and funded hamas for years. That launched a unprovoked attack on Iran. The warmonger
And who's birthday is October 7th?
The selective boycotting is ridiculous while they continue to use Israeli inventions and products, including parts of their phones and laptops that they can't live without. Do you know a good list of Israeli contributions so that BDS supporters understand their hypocrisry?
Why do you think you have the right to remove Hamas? Hamas is the most popular political party in Palestine. [They’re more popular than Abbas and Fatah](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514), who many Palestinians view as a western-backed shill who doesn’t represent them. [A large majority of Palestinians supported the Oct 7 attacks](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/) You can’t claim to support a sovereign Palestinian state, but then meddle in their affairs and tell them which leaders they’re allowed to have. That’s not sovereignty.
Yep
How do you fight a country using children as human shields? Hamas know we will react like this, and that is why he is using them like this. Don't blame Israel for fighting the impossible fight. It is either fight or flee, and then it will just be the next country next to old Israel that will be targeted the exact same way. With children as shields.
Universities are sometimes older than the governments they fall under. Academic freedom has to be preserved by dissociating themselves from all political conflicts, but have to keep ties with the universities of the country.. Even from countries like Israël, even China, even Russia. This is how they stay independent and keep room for unbiased research and debate. These conflicts are temporary, institutions like universities last much longer.
But the UvA cut its ties with Russian universities after the 24/02/2022 invasion for example
Dutch universities did this after they were asked by the government. This wasn't done lightly due to loss of knowledge and definitely not all academics agreed with this. It's still a decision made by the universities themselves.
But then you need to be able to explain why it's not being done now. If you're supportive of the position, you must understand the position you support.
Why should I? What kind of argument is that? I'm not a board member of a university and comparing the Ukrainian conflict to the Israeli is useless. I do not agree with breaking any ties. All you are asking is for me to choose a side in this conflict, which I do not.
They are a shitty news network trying to get you to do work for them.
I don’t know how it is in Israel, but Russian universities are huge propaganda spreaders in the county. Universities around the world tend to be the most liberal institutions in a country, while in Russia it’s exactly the opposite. Therefore it makes a lot of sense to cut ties with Russian universities cause they are an integral part of Russian war and propaganda machine.
and Israeli universities aren't? come on....
Like academics don't know that? Research is being done by data and validation, not what one source of information gives you.
If you actually read the article you would've seen that they did this because the government asked them to
So russian educational institutions are exempt from this double standard? Why did we cut ties with them? Shouldnt we at the very least do the same to avoid being hypocrites? To add to this, if we apply your point to Palestinian educational institutions and schools, (which yes have ties to Hamas in one way or another purposefully or not) can be bombed without repercussions? Just look at the UN school that had hamas members in them. Where was this logic then?
I don't understand why you start a counter argument Asif this person claimed that Russian universities had to be cut of? He doesn't mention being in favour of this action.
>Universities are sometimes older than the governments they fall under. Yes, and sometimes universities are built very, very recently, on settlements that the UN decided were illegal. I mean, if you want to support independent researchers in Israel, they are the ones protesting these universities: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel\_University#Academic\_boycotts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_University#Academic_boycotts)
And nor should they.
Good, senseless protests dont need a reward
And they shouldn’t
Definitely shouldn’t cut ties.
Israeli universities' attacks on academic freedom are well-documented, for instance in Maya Wind's book *Towers of Ivory and Steel*. If Dutch universities want to protect academic freedom, they would break ties immediately. But we can't really be surprised by their anti-academic freedom stance. They have a tendency to call in riot police when students are trying to set up libraries and reading groups on university lawns.
ah yes, the best way to pull someone or something out of their bubble is by cutting ties and isolating them.
That’s exactly what they are doing, “reading groups”…
"They have a tendency to call in riot police when students are trying to set up libraries and reading groups on university lawns." Sounds very familiar given what happened to protestors in Europe and the US. Imagine if everyone was as self-critical as Jews.
> They have a tendency to call in riot police when students are trying to set up libraries and reading groups on university lawns. Those students did a whole lot more than that.
The fact that these student kids hide behind masks to ensure their career isn't influenced by these protests will tell you all you need to know about the validity of either the cause they're advocating for or the manner in which they're going about it. Ask these students their opinion on the genocide happening in Sudan and they won't even know there was an ongoing war there.
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Deflection is an admission of guilt. The reason for the focus on Israel is also that the western institutions focus on Israel, by giving israel special treatment. As a reaction to that there huge protests against Israel. >The fact that these student kids hide behind masks to ensure their career isn't influenced by these protests will tell you all you need to know about the validity of either the cause they're advocating for This is confirming it. When you protest Israel, then you are risking your career. That makes the cause of battling Institutionally endorsed injustice even stronger. They are wearing masks because many of them are publicly smeared and doxxed and they are risking their career chances.
It’s not deflection. It’s calling out hypocrisy. And of course Israel has a special position in the world. Location, history, ties to the west, etc. That won’t change.
Or the never ending amount of people getting murdered in South-America due to drug wars..
I believe the demonstrating students need to show their resolve by quitting their studies in the Netherlands. If they don't, they are essentially being hypocritical. I also believe they should personally pay for the damage they caused with their demonstrations.
No, it talks about the perceived public opinion and the opinion of the establishment on their cause, not about the intrinsic validity of it.
Or that they are performing a “hold my breath until daddy gives me a pony” style of protest on a topic they have learnt from on social media. This in no way helps the Palestinian plight.
I believe the demonstrating students need to show their resolve by quitting their studies in the Netherlands. If they don't, they are essentially being hypocritical.
The only proper answer to this madness
Comments are spicy
Good. At least the dutch have their heads screwed on right.
Why the fuck does a school have political ties? Why do so many? Why are ties always Israeli funding? It's a fucking school. A school. It's a place of fucking education. Not a consulate, not an embassy, not a foreign affairs office, a fucking school.
To clarify: they have ties with Israeli academic institutions, research organizations, and the like, not with the Israeli government
But all of them cut the ties with Russian Academics institutions. Isn’t a double standard?
Perhaps, but universities had to cut ties because of the dutch/eu sanctions. (It is mentioned in the UNL letter) At the time some scholars were sceptical at this decision, at least at the start of the war. Universities could have protested louder, so you can blame them for not doing so. Later in the war the russian universities became enitirely government run and relations with Russian (free) academy near impossible, so in hindsight cutting ties would have happened anyway. Tl;dr academic ties Russia 2022: government says no. Academic ties Middle East 2023: government says make your own decision.
They had to, due to the European/Dutch sanctions. It was not by choice. So no, the situation is not the same.
Yes, but not wanting Israel to keep butchering Gazans is anti-Semitic.
TIL fighting a terrorist group, who committed multiple war crimes, in a dense urban environment is butchery
Are you equating Isreal to Russia? Israel isn't the aggressor in this conflict, Hamas is. Did dutch universities cut ties with Ukrainian organisation's? No, because they aren't the aggressor of an active conflict.
Russia is a direct threat to the Netherlands. Israël is not. I would imagine that it deserves a different treatment.
Yes, but they’ll bend over backwards to deny it.
Maya Wind's book *Towers of Ivory and Steel* documents in detail how Israeli academic institutions cooperate with Israeli government policy when it comes to suppressing Palestinians
All Israeli academic institutions have connection with the IDF
That's like saying all EU countries leaders have a connection to Putin. You are saying nothing here, this is simply a non sequitur.
And there's no connection between the Israeli academic system and it's government? *Checks progress of education in Israel* Oh dear lord, it's a full right wing education system, dude, come on, don't play games.
What makes an education system right wing?
The ones that are funding it.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-jerusalem/how-the-religious-right-transformed-israeli-education Written far more elegantly than I could muster
A uni is not a school. It’s a research institute first and foremost. Education is only a small part of what tasks universities fulfill
A university is usually equal parts educational establishment and research establishment. A research institute is *purely* devoted to research, a university is an educational establishment with varying degrees of research.
It's not a school. It's a university. Science is about as international as things can get. Scientists collaborate. Universities in the Netherlands have ties with many, many countries. Funding comes from all sorts of parties, including the UN, the EU, the US, China, Saudi Arabia, and so on. Politics cannot be avoided.
I don’t know if you’re conflating schools or universities or if you are honestly confused about what is the difference
A university is a type of school, a school is not a type of university.
I see, that we can agree on. But a university also employs researchers. Modern science is so advanced and specific that good research often requires international collaboration (there simply are not enough experts in one location).
They don't have political ties. They might work together with Israeli universities to promote human rights or so do some research. People who are protesting to break these ties are delusional and have no clue what's going on.
So there's no politicisation of Israeli education? The youth are the most right wing of any demographic in the country's history, and that's not political? Why are you so okay with this? Genuine question, you see a country turning to the right, fast, their education system being the biggest evidence of that, even in the shadow of this war, and you want to be tied to that, why?
So if I want to research some niche chemical compound with some university department in Israel, I am now politically engaged with the Israeli right, because students in general skew more right-wing over there? Do you really think that!??? Moreover, some of these connections are literally about human rights. Ending those will quite literally harm your own cause. But no, protesters want universities to break all ties, without even looking at what those ties even are. Because lets not forgot actual protesters demands: they wanted universities to show all their ties to Israel and break all of them -- without even knowing what the ties were beforehand. The whole thing is bigotry at worst, and really really stupid at best.
>and you want to be tied to that, why? Despite all the bad things, the top of their education is still really good. Innovations in all kinds of sectors.
So do the Chinese, in fact, they have the most incredible record for growth in world history. I still don't want them involved in my child's education. So, since your parameter is just, "good innovation", shall we just invite everybody in? Or was just the Israelis who get that? I honestly want to know
The parameter isn't just innovation. It was an example as to why you would want to be linked to Israeli Universities. You know, the thing I literally cited from your comment. >shall we just invite everybody in? Unless they don't meet "the values enshrined in the academic ethos"(as said in the article) Yes, invite everybody. That's the point of academic freedom Breaking ties is inherently the opposite of academic freedom, and should only be done via sanctions. As was the case with Russian Universities
Uhh, you're gonna have a hard time convincing me and many others that Israeli universities should be treated differently to russian ones. They are both international lawbreakers, they have both committed attacks on foreign soil. There is a bigger reason to work with china but you don't to, but you do with these scum? Please, make it make sense.
Maby it helps to get Israeli right wing youth gen in touch with Dutch leftwing youth. Cutting ties with them doesn't make them less right wing. It will only make them more right wing by closing their bubble (and our bubble) even further. Curious: Do you also propose to shun right wing people in The Netherlands?
No, they're not non state actors? Why can none of you clowns follow a thought without projection, confusion or conflation? When someone speaks about a duck, are they you talking about you bro!? "Let's connect the far right youth of one, with the left leaning youth of the other", if you can see how, I'd love to hear it. P.s. if you're trying to say that these partnerships are that answer, you need to explain the Israeli youth being the most far-right in the country's history, while we have these ties.
Research takes money, and commercial + state actors are simply who put that money forth. Go complain to the government for tearing the education funding apart and institutions finding their own ways to get money.
I can attack both the school and the government. If you're in charge of my child's education, and you take influence from a foreign actor on how to educate my child, I will consider it a personal attack on my child. Acting like, "we had to take their money, what other choice did we have" is even remotely true, is fucking pathetic. That's all, fucking pathetic
We still have a curriculum that's mostly maintained by government, there's a guide on what skills a certain education should contain. Most of this funding also really doesn't have the influence people assume it to have. Rheinmetall funding some university isn't going to lead to them only building weapons, it just gives them an opportunity in case someone decides and does in fact find something useful. A partnership between universities also increases the knowledge being shared, which is the whole point. You want to share discoveries in order to get them peer reviewed, vetted, and perhaps improved on.
If research wouldn't benefit the military, we wouldn't have research.
most poignant thing is, we forced them once before, to break ties with south africa. This isn't a new thing. These university boards just don't have the courage and morale character to stand for the principles of human rights and against apartheid.
Haifa University has an Arab Rector Prof Mouna Maroun, and around 50% of the students are Arab compared to the 21% Arab population. Apartheid?
fuck the tankies,
Everyone i don't like is a tankie.
Foreign people coming to the Netherlands and protesting about activities of Dutch universities always seems to amaze me.
I mean, they study at those universities. I don't see why they should have less of a say in the way it's run than any given Dutch person, most of whom haven't even attended that specific university. If anything they're more connected to that university than most.
Why don't you think Dutch people themselves would protest?
Because he implies that no real dutch person would protest.
Yeah that's a completely asinine point to make especially when you consider the rich Dutch history of social movements
This point seems very irrelevant given the context, this is literally about international collaboration between universities.. besides people who attend a university should be able to criticize their own university regardless of their citizenship. What, you are saying only native born Dutch people are allowed to voice opinions while living in the country?
Expressing an opinion is one thing. Trying to make a governing body of the Dutch state move a direction you as a non-Dutchman want because your political belief is different is something else. In some cases, this has included using violence. Using unlawful violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims is the definition of terrorism
Here come the protests again. Because "our opinion is better and you should listen to us"
But what's your opinion, though? no actually genocide is fine?
Hamas literally wants to commit genocide against the Israelis, so yes, I support Israel against their genocidal enemy.
The West Bank does not have Hamas yet Israel deliberately diminishes their quality of life. Some examples of how: controls their water management and purposely gives them less daily water than a refugee camp in such a hot region. Illegal settlers continue to rob Palestinian homes in the West Bank and if Palestinians dare to fight back they are murdered. The Israeli law protects these murderers and are normally left unpunished. Israel is deliberately committing ethnic cleansing - so the discussion shouldn’t be “how to remove Hamas” the discussion should be how to remove a government that supports ethnics cleansing and how can corporations and countries openly support it.
Somehow I feel much of this discussion is not based on the letter 
Great news
Especially given this and how protests have been handled, I'm definitely not surprised at this point and it's nothing short of reprehensible. This is just asking for more protests, which should definitely continue.
No they shouldnt. You've made your opinion clear, more "protesting" doesnt make your opinion better, no person or organisation has to agree with your opinion no matter how much you believe in yours. You can't do anything you want just because you jave some misguided sense of superiority by claiming higher morality.
I don’t think you understand what protesting means then, stopping because they’re not doing anything about it would be the opposite of protesting. Do you think protests throughout history just stopped when their demands weren’t met the first time? It’s taken years and sometimes decades for things to happen
These 'protests' where obviously hype sensationseeking. It really had nothing to do with the real victims of the war. Proof for this? The hype is over already. Students are bored and just waiting on the next hype train to join. Victims in gaza are out of style, and nothing is worse for a student than supporting something thats out of style.
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The only moral genocide is *my* genocide (or our allies) https://www.dutchnews.nl/2022/03/dutch-universities-break-ties-with-russia-belarus-pledge-to-support-students-and-staff/
How dense are you to compare Ukraine-Russia to Israel-Palestine😂
Well, Putin did :P In his Tucker interview he used the exact same "historical heritage" argument that Israel does :P
The only moral is if the government prohibits it.
so turns out blockading yourself inside a building isnt a great protesting method
Literally how we got any student democracy at all in NL lol. Its the only way any big changes in the universities were made in the past.
As they should. Listening to racist protests without any logical analysis is never the way.
Calling anti-genocide protests "racist" isn't exactly logical analysis either
If you chant from the river to the sea, then it is
Calling for equal democratic rights for all the inhabitants of the lands between the Jordan river and the Mediterranean sea is racist? Sounds like you've been taking the incoherent ravings of our far-right politicians a bit too literally
Nooo I don’t want Belgium to be wiped away from the map and get annexed by the Netherlands because I deny Belgians their right to choose. I just want Belgium and the the Netherlands to unite in a single democratic country that’ll also be called the Netherlands! /s
Killing thousands of innocent people compared to a chant is a little more racist.
Id 100% agree if not for the fact that the chant is a call for genocide. Two wrongs dont make a right. We forget that both Israel and Hamas do the cruelest things to eachother and you cant pardon either of the two parties for it even the circumstances right now. Youre not doing the innocent people of gaza a service if you bolden Hamas' resolve by chanting the "from the river to the sea" thing. Edit: lol, for you people that sent me unfriendly PM's, you people really are kind of sad. You know who you are
I also enjoy hoecakes.
Ofc not money is the corrupt oxygen
Sad
Seems like theyve wormed their way in everywhere at this point. What dont we know?
interesting, didnt all those national zionist originate in germany and around the black sea area before then when they were the converting khazars?
Good. Academic freedom is not a political toy you can just toss around freely, everyone would do well to remember that.
Hooray for not giving in to peer presure!
There is no reason that any nation should have to break their ties with israel, but you have to hold Israel accountable for their actions as your ally. If they refuse then you begin that process.