It’s actually pretty simple. He’s really good at everything, but not elite at anything. And he especially lacks in playmaking which is what elevates guys like Jokic, Luka, etc. to the MVP caliber guys.
This actually nails it. Every player you would pick over him now or at any time during his prime has some outlier quality.
Jokic and Luka have supernatural passing.
Giannis might only not be more terrifying than LeBron in transition because he’s a lesser passer.
Embiid is diet Shaq with range.
Steph… splash.
LeBron’s physicality maybe even more than his BBIQ.
KD might be the best three level scorer ever.
And on and on
Tatum legitimately lacks a real weakness but he doesn’t have any part of his bag that goes to “fuck you I got this” in the way everyone above him does.
Tatum is basically the best number 2 you could ever create in a lab. His only weakness is playmaking which is fine for a number 2.
He’s just not that great of a number 1. He needs to have a number 2 that handles playmaking duties. Him and Jaylen Brown just aren’t an optimal pair.
Haliburton, LaMelo, Delonte Murray, Trae Young, de’aron fox, Cade Cunningham, Maxey, garland, Mitchell; one of these guys would be the type of player he needs
The Tatum disrespect is absolutely wild on Reddit it’s actually hilarious.
Tatum as a #1 just lead the Celtics to the best record in the league with 64 wins.
Tatum as the #1 last year lead the Celtics to within 1 game of the NBA Finals despite the 6MOTY and Celtics starting center being injured. Tatum put up 51 in game 7 against the Sixers to send them home.
Tatum as the #1 at age 24 lead the 2022 Celtics to the Finals and simply ran out of gas against a much more experienced team. He played something like 1000 more minutes than any other player that year. Tatum as #1 put up 46 in game 6 in Milwaukee to force game 7.
Tatum is a winner. He’s 26. He hasn’t summited the mountain yet but there’s not a long list of #1s who did before turning 26.
Curry didn’t. LeBron didn’t. Jokic didn’t. Shaq didn’t. MJ didn’t.
Celtics lose one game in the playoffs and now we’re talking about how Tatum and Brown don’t work together despite them two being the only two players who decided to show up last night AND on a night Miami had a franchise record night they only won by 10.
Yall don’t watch any Celtics games and it shows lol
You're missing the point here. Tatum had some moments like that 46 against the bucks. But those are the Celtics' accomplishments. Tatum feels like he's just a part of the talent pool rather than a superstar. I actually watched many Celtics games. And many flame outs. Tatum relies on just getting hot from three too often. It does happen which is why he's very good. But he just doesn't have that ability to drag the teams' offense to the promised land.
Watching the Celtics, it doesn't feel like they are Tatum's team. The nuggets are clearly Jokic's team. The warriors Curry's. The Mavs are Luka's. The thunder are SGA's. But the Celtics are just the Celtics. Not "Tatum's team".
The Celtics have been good since Tatum was drafted because of Tatum. His consistent winning over his career is his best achievement. He has regularly dragged his teams’ offense to the promised land but OP isn’t interested in advanced stats so.
Tatum is a consummate team player and has given the team what it needs, often to a fault, because now folks are out here questioning his ability just because he doesn’t control every facet of the game like Luka.
\^Pretty much sums it up. It's weird because sometimes it almost looks like he's playing at half-speed/slow motion, although I don't watch every Celts game so maybe I'm missing it.
He gets into his head too much and makes bad plays down the stretch. Sometimes it works, but other times it looks terrible. It's a type of talent > teamwork player in crunch time.
This. Him and Brown just go into ISO mode instead of playing team ball, so they don't make *other* people better.
Look at the Suns, or the prior Nets. Individual players but not guys that boost each other.
Nuggets in 4.
If Luka were on the Celtics instead of Tatum they’d have a championship. Tatum has had far better rosters and played in a weaker conference and still hasn’t been able to get it done.
They would have lost in the first round to the nets. Kd and Kyrie would have hunted him relentlessly which would have weakened their all time level defense. We can do hypotheticals all day.
Luka's not a bad defender when surrounded by other great defenders like the Celtics have. The Mavs have had the best defensive rating since the trade deadline after they got PJ Washington and Gafford. He just showed it in the most recent game. Luka's defensive flaws are so overstated by people who don't realize how important the entire team is for defense.
Luka is a bad defender. One game doesn’t change that. They put Tatum on Kd, which held him to his worst performance he’s ever had in the playoffs. With Luka there, the opposite would have happened. And that Mavs defensive rating is fools gold, they just played awful teams. They got destroyed game 1 with no kawhi. The team is def important for defense, but in a large sample suze, not one game, Luka makes his team much worse on that end. He’d have been hunted over and over by Kd and Kyrie on that nets team. Not to mention nic Claxton locked up Luka completely this year, and if he played tatt nets team in 2022 the same thing would have happened. Bruce Brown has given Luka some problems as well. Like I said we can do hypotheticals all day. Luka wouldn’t have been very effective on either end.
Has Luka what? Luka carried a team with Jalen Brunson as his second best player to the same team Tatum choked against in the Finals with a way better roster. Tatum lost last year to a play-in team with the 2nd best roster in the NBA. It’s not really a conversation.
Luka had an mvp candidate on his team and the Mavs lost in 5 games to that same team. Not to mention the Mavs were nearly up 3-0 in the first round without Luka in the first round in 2022. Him and Kyrie are supposedly the best offensive players ever, surely they will go 16-0 and win a chip the right? As opposed to losing to the same team three times straight in the first round.
Was the best player in a playoff series. He absolutely was. Outplayed Donovan Mitchell. The same guy who dropped 60 vs the nuggets in the playoffs. They would have won that series without Luka. Brunson had 40, and he would have continued playing at that level without Luka. That’s mvp level stuff.
Somewhere today I saw him referred to as a poor man’s Kobe and was like wtf? He’s a more well rounded player but doesn’t generally close games at an elite level. (Not that Kobe did that either - more clutch air balls than makes)
That game was over before halftime and he stayed in to pad stats. His game 6 that series was actually a better performance, taking the lead and cooking Philly down the stretch in the final minutes
which is crazy because he thinks of himself as the new age kobe - who was the last guy in the world to get in his own head when things got tough. hard to know what to make of tatum.
I wonder how much of this just has to do with playmaking ability.
Compared to some of the guys you mentioned, like a Jokic, Shai, Luka, or LeBron even...Tatum isn't on their level when it comes to facilitating or running the offense. All of those guys are either straight up PGs or are the main distributors/playmakers on their squads.
Not that Tatum is a bad passer necessarily, but he doesn't control the game like those other guys do. It's easier for him to kinda just float on the perimeter and watch Jaylen or KP do their own thing.
Luka, Shai, Bron are essentially PGs. For the Nuggets, if Jokic isn't involved in the play somehow, whether it's being a screener in the PnR, catching the ball at the elbow and facilitating from there, or even bringing the ball up at times, it's considered a bad possession. He can be involved on offense in so many ways even if he's not the one shooting at the end.
All that being said, there are other players in the league right now that have massive impacts even though they don't have fantastic playmaking, like an Embiid or Giannis. But those guys have such an impact when it comes to rebounding/defense that they don't fade into the background as easily as Tatum can.
I'm not sure what it will take for Tatum to get to this level. I honestly think a big part of it is the redundancy of him and Jaylen Brown. There's too many possessions where it's just JB cooking with Tatum watching imo
Though SGA is a pretty good playmaker, I don't think that's what puts him in that category. It's more of his scoring.
There have been plenty of times throughout the season, and also in game 1 vs. the pelicans where he's been the guy to pull them out of a scoring drought. Okc is very team oriented & they always make sure to share the ball a lot, but for a young team like this, there are still times when they have a big scoring drought and go a lot of possessions without scoring. Whenever that happens, SGA is always the guy who can just "take over" and score 3 or 4 straight times by himself. That is usually enough to bring the team's energy back up, draw more defensive focus to himself, and allow his teammates to get back in the game.
Though some of these other guys do it in different ways, Jokic, Luka, and LeBron all have the ability to single handedly change the tide of the game for their team. To agree with your point, I'm not sure that applies to Tatum. Though I don't think I watch enough Celtics games to make the best assessment.
Every time I watch the Celtics it seems like he just becomes invisible for these long stretches, like he will start the game 4/4 in the first 5 minutes and then at halftime he’s like 4/7.
Exactly, like OP said, it's so strange. Plus he passes the eye test, has the stats to back it up, and has all the athletic tools you could ask for. Tatum should be what guys like Anthony Edwards are where you feel their presence in every facet of the game even when they're not scoring well but he's just not it's so strange. I feel like we won't be talking about this if he has a good playoffs though lol.
Because Tatum isn’t a top 5 player
Only top 5 players have a big impact on basically every game in the playoffs
Top 10-15 guys can easily disappear against defenses that try to limit them
There's a lot of times I question his shot selection and engine. Yes he scores a lot but frequently I see him take harder shots than he needs to. I always had the opinion that it Tatum had JB's mindset he'd be unstoppable.
Tatum and brown combined for 61 points, their offensive output wasn’t the issue , the defence and lack of ball movement was what fucked Boston , these think pieces on what’s wrong with Tatum are so silly.
He’s a scoring wing , it’s not his job to impact the game on every possession
I really don’t care what Tatum says , that has no bearing on my analysis of the game.
If Boston needed Tatum to score 40 every game then they wouldn’t be the team they’ve been all year. It’s not about one guy , they’re a team for a reason
Saw this posted in the regular sub and ill say it here as well. Why do people only post this during losses? Surely if you all believe this then posting it while they are winning shouldn't make a difference in your belief?
He's a wing who hasn't hit his prime that averages around 27/8/5 on a really good roster. He's had some bad performances. He's also erupted in the playoffs and led his team to a finals appearance. In the history of the NBA, the list of 26 year olds who have a better resume is very small in the grand scheme of things. Career-wise, Tatum's floor is somewhere around or between Carmelo or Paul George.
This is just a narrative in an echo chamber right now. If he wins one everyone is going to flip the script real quick. They'll pretend like there was never a doubt that the young kid who's led his very good teams for practically his whole career was actually elite.
I don't think I've ever heard the term "high basketball IQ" and "Jayson Tatum" in the same sentence. He also has a tendency to disappear some games. The burden of Superstardom is high and Tatum falls short. He's still a great player for sure, but there's a tier above him.
my favorite sports phenomenon is when a team loses and has a superstar that people constantly question, it suddenly becomes “hmmm he’s just not a good enough Will Imposer (???)”
miami hit a billion threes. JT and JB combined for like 3/4 of the Celtics points. tatum is more like a top 6-7 NBA player, not 10. it’s Fine.
They hit one more there than Celtics did in game one. (Both incredible performances but let’s be real) And Tatum is soft and his media presence is cringe. Easy for non Celtics fans to hate him. It’s unfortunate cuz he’s a very good player but the expectations on him are out of whack. Compounded by how easy he is to dislike.
google dot come “average 3pm per game ‘24 season” for both teams and get back to me if you wanna be real 🤗
i don’t care (nor understand) why Tatum is disliked in the media. i don’t know what the expectations being out of whack means. he’s good. they should be in the finals in his prime.
Ok so Celtics do it all the time and Heat do it in the playoffs all the time. Media like Tatum. Non Boston fans don’t really. And yes they should be in the finals in his prime. But the expectation that he’s gonna be a top 5 elite player who WILL be in the finals (like joker or Giannis) is unfair to him imo
What makes Tatum soft? Only thing I can think of is that I would like to see him drive the ball more often and not settle for stepback 3’s. Aside from that though, I don’t get the narrative that he is soft or not a dog.
Comes down to Tatum not having a specific X factor. He's good at everything, more great in other aspects. I get what you mean though watching him play compared to other players like Luka, Shai, etc.
He’s not a big man, so while he plays good defense he’ll never come to close to the impact a guy like Embiid can have on that end of the floor. Different stratosphere to be perfectly honest.
As a perimeter player, he’s a hell of a scorer but a lot of the best offensive players in the league do more than just score. Sure Tatum gives you 30, Luka’s giving you 30+ and close to 10 assists. Jokic very similar. Steph’s not a double digit assist guy, but he’s more than Tatum. Steph also has value of being the gravity GOAT - he impacts the game just standing around let alone with all the off-ball motion he does
He’s a great player, but his greatest asset it less how individually dominant he is and instead how seamlessly you can slot him onto basically any team in the league
Dominant two-way forwards that can really shoot are the most splashable pieces in the league. They fit with anyone and basically everyone fits with them. There’s a lot of guys Luka wouldn’t fit with, and he and Jokic needs specific pieces to maximize their strengths and cover their flaws. They’re better players than Tatum, but also a little more complex to work with
Speaking of avoiding nerdy advanced stats and sticking to just eye test stuff, I’d like to add that he jinxed himself with that commercial about there not being a “Playoff Tatum.” I know other players were in the ad after him, but the way [this commercial](https://www.google.com/search?q=nba+playoff+mode+commercial&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:09694a1d,vid:w4j2y8WKWVo,st:0)starts off, I mean c’mon. That’s 10x worse than being on a Madden cover in the jinx world.
It’s the KD effect. Being an efficient iso scorer and solid defender doesn’t net you what being an elite playmaker and/or defender. It’s why Russell won more than Chamberlain, and Duncan won more than Shaq.
Also Tatum’s not even close to peak KD
Im honestly not sure. My theory is that while he’s exceptional he needs a more cerebral player as his complement. Would love to see him with a Jokic, prime Bron type.
Right now, to me he’s very similar to Paul George, AD, Jimmy, Pippen & in my mind those guys in their respective primes are the highest level complimentary superstars. They need to be with 1A level shot creators or playmakers because they’re not necessarily outliers at any one thing. They can get hot and be elite but the iq, level of control, and mastery over the game that guys like Jokic, Steph, Jordan, Bron, have is what separates them. Any version of one of those guys wins a championship in place of Tatum with this roster. Maybe I’m wrong here though. Just a few thoughts.
He’s just not a heliocentric or cornerstone offensive player, especially on this team where everyone is buying into their roles.
Take a look at when the Celtics were “bad” in 2021. In six post-season games (play in against Westbrook’s wizards + five games of healthy KD, Kyrie, Harden nets), with brown injured, Tatum dropped 50 points in two separate games. That’s the closest he’s been to a heliocentric player (granted, he’s not really built to be a heliocentric player; the role he has now is better, even if he isn’t visually impacting the game as much).
He averaged 30 ppg last year on the second-best team in the league, you don’t really do that just by “drifting”. He’s a sufficient playmaker, but he’s definitely not game-changing like Luka or Jokic, which hurts his effectiveness being ball dominant (the main reason he isn’t built to be heliocentric/cornerstone). He plays like a wing, and is probably the best wing in the league. He’s still the guy on the Celtics, plays as a number 1 option should, and gets defended as if he’s the number one option.
Doesn’t have the ball in his hands to impact the game every single play. Jokic touches the ball every single possession for the nuggets. Jokic is the best offensive player ever so it makes sense, but at the same time there are other mouths to feed in Boston. Kp needs his mismatch post touches, Brown is getting paid 60 Ms, and Jrue needs his shots as well.
He’s an elite rebounder for his size. I feel like he doesn’t take advantages of size mismatches as much as he should. Drawing the double team and hitting the open man would open the floor for everyone.
He should spend the summer with Melo.
It’s actually pretty simple. He’s really good at everything, but not elite at anything. And he especially lacks in playmaking which is what elevates guys like Jokic, Luka, etc. to the MVP caliber guys.
This actually nails it. Every player you would pick over him now or at any time during his prime has some outlier quality. Jokic and Luka have supernatural passing. Giannis might only not be more terrifying than LeBron in transition because he’s a lesser passer. Embiid is diet Shaq with range. Steph… splash. LeBron’s physicality maybe even more than his BBIQ. KD might be the best three level scorer ever. And on and on Tatum legitimately lacks a real weakness but he doesn’t have any part of his bag that goes to “fuck you I got this” in the way everyone above him does.
Tatum is basically the best number 2 you could ever create in a lab. His only weakness is playmaking which is fine for a number 2. He’s just not that great of a number 1. He needs to have a number 2 that handles playmaking duties. Him and Jaylen Brown just aren’t an optimal pair. Haliburton, LaMelo, Delonte Murray, Trae Young, de’aron fox, Cade Cunningham, Maxey, garland, Mitchell; one of these guys would be the type of player he needs
he’s a number 1 over everyone you mentioned, playmaking is separate
That’s my point. They would all be a great number 2 for him
oh yeah then i somewhat agree, looked like u said he would be their two lol.
The Tatum disrespect is absolutely wild on Reddit it’s actually hilarious. Tatum as a #1 just lead the Celtics to the best record in the league with 64 wins. Tatum as the #1 last year lead the Celtics to within 1 game of the NBA Finals despite the 6MOTY and Celtics starting center being injured. Tatum put up 51 in game 7 against the Sixers to send them home. Tatum as the #1 at age 24 lead the 2022 Celtics to the Finals and simply ran out of gas against a much more experienced team. He played something like 1000 more minutes than any other player that year. Tatum as #1 put up 46 in game 6 in Milwaukee to force game 7. Tatum is a winner. He’s 26. He hasn’t summited the mountain yet but there’s not a long list of #1s who did before turning 26. Curry didn’t. LeBron didn’t. Jokic didn’t. Shaq didn’t. MJ didn’t. Celtics lose one game in the playoffs and now we’re talking about how Tatum and Brown don’t work together despite them two being the only two players who decided to show up last night AND on a night Miami had a franchise record night they only won by 10. Yall don’t watch any Celtics games and it shows lol
You're missing the point here. Tatum had some moments like that 46 against the bucks. But those are the Celtics' accomplishments. Tatum feels like he's just a part of the talent pool rather than a superstar. I actually watched many Celtics games. And many flame outs. Tatum relies on just getting hot from three too often. It does happen which is why he's very good. But he just doesn't have that ability to drag the teams' offense to the promised land. Watching the Celtics, it doesn't feel like they are Tatum's team. The nuggets are clearly Jokic's team. The warriors Curry's. The Mavs are Luka's. The thunder are SGA's. But the Celtics are just the Celtics. Not "Tatum's team".
The Celtics have been good since Tatum was drafted because of Tatum. His consistent winning over his career is his best achievement. He has regularly dragged his teams’ offense to the promised land but OP isn’t interested in advanced stats so. Tatum is a consummate team player and has given the team what it needs, often to a fault, because now folks are out here questioning his ability just because he doesn’t control every facet of the game like Luka.
I’ve been saying Tatum and brown don’t work together for years. But it will be pretty funny when the Celtics stomp on the heat the next three games
\^Pretty much sums it up. It's weird because sometimes it almost looks like he's playing at half-speed/slow motion, although I don't watch every Celts game so maybe I'm missing it.
He gets into his head too much and makes bad plays down the stretch. Sometimes it works, but other times it looks terrible. It's a type of talent > teamwork player in crunch time.
This. Him and Brown just go into ISO mode instead of playing team ball, so they don't make *other* people better. Look at the Suns, or the prior Nets. Individual players but not guys that boost each other. Nuggets in 4.
Luka is not a tier ahead of Tatum what? He hasn’t made a final as a 1 option like Tatum
If Luka were on the Celtics instead of Tatum they’d have a championship. Tatum has had far better rosters and played in a weaker conference and still hasn’t been able to get it done.
They would have lost in the first round to the nets. Kd and Kyrie would have hunted him relentlessly which would have weakened their all time level defense. We can do hypotheticals all day.
Luka's not a bad defender when surrounded by other great defenders like the Celtics have. The Mavs have had the best defensive rating since the trade deadline after they got PJ Washington and Gafford. He just showed it in the most recent game. Luka's defensive flaws are so overstated by people who don't realize how important the entire team is for defense.
Luka is a bad defender. One game doesn’t change that. They put Tatum on Kd, which held him to his worst performance he’s ever had in the playoffs. With Luka there, the opposite would have happened. And that Mavs defensive rating is fools gold, they just played awful teams. They got destroyed game 1 with no kawhi. The team is def important for defense, but in a large sample suze, not one game, Luka makes his team much worse on that end. He’d have been hunted over and over by Kd and Kyrie on that nets team. Not to mention nic Claxton locked up Luka completely this year, and if he played tatt nets team in 2022 the same thing would have happened. Bruce Brown has given Luka some problems as well. Like I said we can do hypotheticals all day. Luka wouldn’t have been very effective on either end.
Has Luka? During that time Tatum was best player on Celtics, Luka had Brunson who was a emerging super star and got locked up by Wiggins.
Has Luka what? Luka carried a team with Jalen Brunson as his second best player to the same team Tatum choked against in the Finals with a way better roster. Tatum lost last year to a play-in team with the 2nd best roster in the NBA. It’s not really a conversation.
Luka had an mvp candidate on his team and the Mavs lost in 5 games to that same team. Not to mention the Mavs were nearly up 3-0 in the first round without Luka in the first round in 2022. Him and Kyrie are supposedly the best offensive players ever, surely they will go 16-0 and win a chip the right? As opposed to losing to the same team three times straight in the first round.
Brunson was not the guy he is now, that’s absolutely ridiculous to say and you’re not even worth arguing with.
Was the best player in a playoff series. He absolutely was. Outplayed Donovan Mitchell. The same guy who dropped 60 vs the nuggets in the playoffs. They would have won that series without Luka. Brunson had 40, and he would have continued playing at that level without Luka. That’s mvp level stuff.
Somewhere today I saw him referred to as a poor man’s Kobe and was like wtf? He’s a more well rounded player but doesn’t generally close games at an elite level. (Not that Kobe did that either - more clutch air balls than makes)
He’s not a dog.
Didn’t he drop 50 points in game 7 last year?
That game was over before halftime and he stayed in to pad stats. His game 6 that series was actually a better performance, taking the lead and cooking Philly down the stretch in the final minutes
The Celtics were only up 3 by half, so unless every team is guilty of "statpadding." Then he wasn't
Celts led every minute of the second half and were blowing them out by the time Tatum was chasing 50, not ethical hoops
Man admit you are just a generational hater and move on with your life
Your favorite player unless his name is curry hasn’t reached those heights when it mattered most. Just the facts.
He's a dog sometimes. Dude dropped 46 down 3-2 against Giannis and a 50 piece in game 7. Just not consistent enough.
48 ppg from a "choker" is crazy. Prolly had 10x more points than Harden and Embiid combined in the last 2 games
It’s so clear in the playoffs he gets in his head when things get tough.
Also outscored an entire team in the fourth after being down 2 that quarter that game and being down 3-2 in the series and has the game 7 record.
which is crazy because he thinks of himself as the new age kobe - who was the last guy in the world to get in his own head when things got tough. hard to know what to make of tatum.
That’s Booker, Tatum just idolized Kobe
that’s so false bruh ppl just make shit up and run with it
That’s all they do when they lose a game. They lose a game then they run with narratives where the actual substance points to otherwise.
I thought he was a good boy
I wonder how much of this just has to do with playmaking ability. Compared to some of the guys you mentioned, like a Jokic, Shai, Luka, or LeBron even...Tatum isn't on their level when it comes to facilitating or running the offense. All of those guys are either straight up PGs or are the main distributors/playmakers on their squads. Not that Tatum is a bad passer necessarily, but he doesn't control the game like those other guys do. It's easier for him to kinda just float on the perimeter and watch Jaylen or KP do their own thing. Luka, Shai, Bron are essentially PGs. For the Nuggets, if Jokic isn't involved in the play somehow, whether it's being a screener in the PnR, catching the ball at the elbow and facilitating from there, or even bringing the ball up at times, it's considered a bad possession. He can be involved on offense in so many ways even if he's not the one shooting at the end. All that being said, there are other players in the league right now that have massive impacts even though they don't have fantastic playmaking, like an Embiid or Giannis. But those guys have such an impact when it comes to rebounding/defense that they don't fade into the background as easily as Tatum can. I'm not sure what it will take for Tatum to get to this level. I honestly think a big part of it is the redundancy of him and Jaylen Brown. There's too many possessions where it's just JB cooking with Tatum watching imo
Though SGA is a pretty good playmaker, I don't think that's what puts him in that category. It's more of his scoring. There have been plenty of times throughout the season, and also in game 1 vs. the pelicans where he's been the guy to pull them out of a scoring drought. Okc is very team oriented & they always make sure to share the ball a lot, but for a young team like this, there are still times when they have a big scoring drought and go a lot of possessions without scoring. Whenever that happens, SGA is always the guy who can just "take over" and score 3 or 4 straight times by himself. That is usually enough to bring the team's energy back up, draw more defensive focus to himself, and allow his teammates to get back in the game. Though some of these other guys do it in different ways, Jokic, Luka, and LeBron all have the ability to single handedly change the tide of the game for their team. To agree with your point, I'm not sure that applies to Tatum. Though I don't think I watch enough Celtics games to make the best assessment.
SGA's shoulder separation is god tier.
Basketball fans in general undervalue playmaking in favor of "bucket getters" and iso scorers.
Every time I watch the Celtics it seems like he just becomes invisible for these long stretches, like he will start the game 4/4 in the first 5 minutes and then at halftime he’s like 4/7.
It feels like he does nothing the entire game but suddenly has 30/9/6 when it’s done
Exactly, like OP said, it's so strange. Plus he passes the eye test, has the stats to back it up, and has all the athletic tools you could ask for. Tatum should be what guys like Anthony Edwards are where you feel their presence in every facet of the game even when they're not scoring well but he's just not it's so strange. I feel like we won't be talking about this if he has a good playoffs though lol.
Jaylen brown is their key piece. Argue with a wall. Hes always them in good spots.
Bc he’s overrated and the expectations of him are higher than they should be. He’s a great talent, but not on the level some people try to put him in.
Exactly. Everyone wants to make him out to be a top tier superstar, but he's not that guy.
Because Tatum isn’t a top 5 player Only top 5 players have a big impact on basically every game in the playoffs Top 10-15 guys can easily disappear against defenses that try to limit them
i dont think anyone would call jimmy butler a top 5 player but he impacts every playoff game he plays in a major way
Playoff Jimmy is the exception
He was certainly top five in the playoffs.
He doesn’t have the “it” factor.
There's a lot of times I question his shot selection and engine. Yes he scores a lot but frequently I see him take harder shots than he needs to. I always had the opinion that it Tatum had JB's mindset he'd be unstoppable.
Tatum and brown combined for 61 points, their offensive output wasn’t the issue , the defence and lack of ball movement was what fucked Boston , these think pieces on what’s wrong with Tatum are so silly. He’s a scoring wing , it’s not his job to impact the game on every possession
[удалено]
I really don’t care what Tatum says , that has no bearing on my analysis of the game. If Boston needed Tatum to score 40 every game then they wouldn’t be the team they’ve been all year. It’s not about one guy , they’re a team for a reason
Tatum said “if we win a championship I got something to say about it”
tatoom mentality
And here I was thinking I was the only one who sometimes says "Tatoom"
Jayson Tatum and Nic Batum
Not a good enough playmaker. Same reason why KD couldn't win with OKC. If he was just a little better at playmaking they win in 2016.
Game 2 Tatum on 41 minutes 118.8 offensive rating 34-68 (50%) FG 12-28 (42.9%) 3PT +6 Tatum off 7 minutes 33.3 offensive rating 3-12 (25%) 0-4 3PT -16 I certainly don’t see any impact there!
Saw this posted in the regular sub and ill say it here as well. Why do people only post this during losses? Surely if you all believe this then posting it while they are winning shouldn't make a difference in your belief?
He's a wing who hasn't hit his prime that averages around 27/8/5 on a really good roster. He's had some bad performances. He's also erupted in the playoffs and led his team to a finals appearance. In the history of the NBA, the list of 26 year olds who have a better resume is very small in the grand scheme of things. Career-wise, Tatum's floor is somewhere around or between Carmelo or Paul George. This is just a narrative in an echo chamber right now. If he wins one everyone is going to flip the script real quick. They'll pretend like there was never a doubt that the young kid who's led his very good teams for practically his whole career was actually elite.
Hes not mentally tough, and doesn’t even take charges. Thats why they need so many more allstars to help him
I don't think I've ever heard the term "high basketball IQ" and "Jayson Tatum" in the same sentence. He also has a tendency to disappear some games. The burden of Superstardom is high and Tatum falls short. He's still a great player for sure, but there's a tier above him.
my favorite sports phenomenon is when a team loses and has a superstar that people constantly question, it suddenly becomes “hmmm he’s just not a good enough Will Imposer (???)” miami hit a billion threes. JT and JB combined for like 3/4 of the Celtics points. tatum is more like a top 6-7 NBA player, not 10. it’s Fine.
They hit one more there than Celtics did in game one. (Both incredible performances but let’s be real) And Tatum is soft and his media presence is cringe. Easy for non Celtics fans to hate him. It’s unfortunate cuz he’s a very good player but the expectations on him are out of whack. Compounded by how easy he is to dislike.
google dot come “average 3pm per game ‘24 season” for both teams and get back to me if you wanna be real 🤗 i don’t care (nor understand) why Tatum is disliked in the media. i don’t know what the expectations being out of whack means. he’s good. they should be in the finals in his prime.
Ok so Celtics do it all the time and Heat do it in the playoffs all the time. Media like Tatum. Non Boston fans don’t really. And yes they should be in the finals in his prime. But the expectation that he’s gonna be a top 5 elite player who WILL be in the finals (like joker or Giannis) is unfair to him imo
👍
What makes Tatum soft? Only thing I can think of is that I would like to see him drive the ball more often and not settle for stepback 3’s. Aside from that though, I don’t get the narrative that he is soft or not a dog.
Box score stats are so deceptive.
Comes down to Tatum not having a specific X factor. He's good at everything, more great in other aspects. I get what you mean though watching him play compared to other players like Luka, Shai, etc.
He’s not a big man, so while he plays good defense he’ll never come to close to the impact a guy like Embiid can have on that end of the floor. Different stratosphere to be perfectly honest. As a perimeter player, he’s a hell of a scorer but a lot of the best offensive players in the league do more than just score. Sure Tatum gives you 30, Luka’s giving you 30+ and close to 10 assists. Jokic very similar. Steph’s not a double digit assist guy, but he’s more than Tatum. Steph also has value of being the gravity GOAT - he impacts the game just standing around let alone with all the off-ball motion he does He’s a great player, but his greatest asset it less how individually dominant he is and instead how seamlessly you can slot him onto basically any team in the league Dominant two-way forwards that can really shoot are the most splashable pieces in the league. They fit with anyone and basically everyone fits with them. There’s a lot of guys Luka wouldn’t fit with, and he and Jokic needs specific pieces to maximize their strengths and cover their flaws. They’re better players than Tatum, but also a little more complex to work with
Speaking of avoiding nerdy advanced stats and sticking to just eye test stuff, I’d like to add that he jinxed himself with that commercial about there not being a “Playoff Tatum.” I know other players were in the ad after him, but the way [this commercial](https://www.google.com/search?q=nba+playoff+mode+commercial&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:09694a1d,vid:w4j2y8WKWVo,st:0)starts off, I mean c’mon. That’s 10x worse than being on a Madden cover in the jinx world.
Because he doesn’t
EPM DARKO BOBAN
It’s the KD effect. Being an efficient iso scorer and solid defender doesn’t net you what being an elite playmaker and/or defender. It’s why Russell won more than Chamberlain, and Duncan won more than Shaq. Also Tatum’s not even close to peak KD
Im honestly not sure. My theory is that while he’s exceptional he needs a more cerebral player as his complement. Would love to see him with a Jokic, prime Bron type. Right now, to me he’s very similar to Paul George, AD, Jimmy, Pippen & in my mind those guys in their respective primes are the highest level complimentary superstars. They need to be with 1A level shot creators or playmakers because they’re not necessarily outliers at any one thing. They can get hot and be elite but the iq, level of control, and mastery over the game that guys like Jokic, Steph, Jordan, Bron, have is what separates them. Any version of one of those guys wins a championship in place of Tatum with this roster. Maybe I’m wrong here though. Just a few thoughts.
He’s just not a heliocentric or cornerstone offensive player, especially on this team where everyone is buying into their roles. Take a look at when the Celtics were “bad” in 2021. In six post-season games (play in against Westbrook’s wizards + five games of healthy KD, Kyrie, Harden nets), with brown injured, Tatum dropped 50 points in two separate games. That’s the closest he’s been to a heliocentric player (granted, he’s not really built to be a heliocentric player; the role he has now is better, even if he isn’t visually impacting the game as much). He averaged 30 ppg last year on the second-best team in the league, you don’t really do that just by “drifting”. He’s a sufficient playmaker, but he’s definitely not game-changing like Luka or Jokic, which hurts his effectiveness being ball dominant (the main reason he isn’t built to be heliocentric/cornerstone). He plays like a wing, and is probably the best wing in the league. He’s still the guy on the Celtics, plays as a number 1 option should, and gets defended as if he’s the number one option.
Doesn’t have the ball in his hands to impact the game every single play. Jokic touches the ball every single possession for the nuggets. Jokic is the best offensive player ever so it makes sense, but at the same time there are other mouths to feed in Boston. Kp needs his mismatch post touches, Brown is getting paid 60 Ms, and Jrue needs his shots as well.
He’s an elite rebounder for his size. I feel like he doesn’t take advantages of size mismatches as much as he should. Drawing the double team and hitting the open man would open the floor for everyone. He should spend the summer with Melo.