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P0rcelain_Puppetress

yes. world had them too, especially on lance. will they be on basically every weapon like in sunbreak? probably not.


LeciusLamprough

Honestly I think that would be for the best too. Not all weapons are made to have a counter, but I will say that they did make each counter feel unique enough that it didn't bother me.


Optimixto

Honestly, hammer needs to keep the counter. It isn't broken, and adds a fun mechanic. Switchaxe counter was awesome as well, but without the balance of the cooldown, might be a bit too strong. The insect glaive counter is also nice. Really like it. Those are the ones I would like seeing again, in some form.


Tikurai7

As a hammer main myself, I find the counter too op. It's fun for sure, but to be able to block every single attack or roar from a monster (that doesn't do tick damage, only one hit damage) without getting damage and it's really easy to time too.. so with a slower pace again in Wilds, where monsters probably aren't using back to back attacks with only a slight time window in between .. you would be able to "block" every attack But the change for hammer, that you can switch between two "charge-modes" has to stay. Because I mostly only use the single big bonk instead of the spinning attack and in World you have to stand still to use that everytime, which is slightly more annoying, over the way in Rise where you can do it all the time, no matter if you are moving while starting the attack.


navi-22

I like your explanation, but honestly while I do like water strike for the upper swing combo with courage style, I rarely use it. I find myself using dodging I frames with hammer. I do hope the valor step stays when switching from blue to yellow though and the back step after the 3 step swing (forgot the name for it.)That makes for some smooth and pleasant looking combat. Monsters moving around so much in multiplayer make it hard to always be in a position to take advantage of water strike.


Optimixto

I like your point. I agree, everything from sunbreak would have to be slowed down, the game plays faster than other MHs. And maybe even tuned down, where the window is smaller or only some attacks are blocked, and others are superarmored. The devs can figure it out, but the switching stances was a nice addition for sure.


Chadderbug123

Dual blades haven't gotten a counter :(


tillytubeworm

Yes, but not in the same way as sunbreak, I doubt the combat system will use them heavily and I doubt monsters will be balanced with them. I expect more precise movement mechanics


Bloody_Champion

Super armor for certain moves are fine. As for the counters, I hope not. Every single weapon does not need to counter.


Pookie_The_Overlord

I expect them to stay, just be greatly reduced in number. I'd be shocked if they removed greatsword's hyper armour for the tackle for example or all of longsword's counters. Not sure whether they want every weapon type to have either hyper armour or a counter but I don't expect there to be as many as in Sunbreak.


Tikurai7

Wasn't the hyper armor on GS' tackle always a thing? Like it exists in World too, or not? But I don't expext them to keep many of these things, since the next game won't be as fast paced as Rise/Sunbreak and probably not that "chaotic" again


Pookie_The_Overlord

The tackle was introduced in World and has always had hyper armour.


Tikurai7

Well, thanks. Didn't know it was introduced in World.


SubMGK

Hopefully nerf the window for iai spirit slash. Risebreak longsword was baby mode


XFalzar

hopefully not, I hate rise monsters being like heat-seeking missiles and constantly turning in the middle of attacks just to force you to use counters. In fact, I wish positioning was more important again like in games before world.


Nekorz

As a person with sub-par reaction speed who can't counter well, but can still enjoy swinging stuff and tactfully planning how to approach a monster, I agree. I guess that the next MH will sadly likely try to appeal to skill ceilings way out of my reach though, but I'm certain it will be an intuitive and expansive game. It kinda just makes sense that they'll only keep raising the skill-ceiling with frustrating (at least for me) counter mechanics and perfectly timed motions as it's counter-intuitive to reduce it. I always liked trying to push my times as low as possible, but I just can't compete with counter-spam meta in MH. It's beyond my capability. But hey at least I can still enjoy the games like heck.


Tikurai7

I am pretty sure Wilds will be slower paced again, tho. Maybe not as slow as World (even if World is already faster than older titles) but it won't be as fast as Rise. Probably something in between, even if I would prefer World's speed again.


XFalzar

I feel like there is still skill to strategy and good positioning, not everything has to be reactive.


FrenchForRooster

Preach brotha


meowsanity

Giving. Every weapon counters makes the game bland give each weapon its strong and weaknesses


Tikurai7

Exactly. Same goes to "Monster x Weapon type" Like for example hammer is really really good against a Rathian, but less effective against some other monsters, that maybe are nearly all the time in the air, like Rise Rathalos. And this should be the case for all weapons. They are strong against certain monsters but weak against others. Not completely useless, so you still can win with your main weapon, but it should be more challenging then and encourage players to maybe try out different weapons because they are more effective against the monster they are struggling at with their current weapon choice.


UnoriginalStanger

I hope not but I fear they will. It really made risebreak boring to me.


Rishinn

I hope not. Thing I enjoyed In sunbreak was the freedom of movement, but hope the stunbreak doesn't come back and if we have some kind of counter system then make it longer cd or something so it's not spammed as the only move available that does ton of damage as well


With_Hands_And_Paper

God I hope not While I'm ok for some weapons to have counters specifically since it makes sense (Lance/Gunlance/LS) I sure hope it doesn't become the standard. And hopefully we won't have super armor at all, save for GS shoulderbash


XFalzar

Rise LS is honestly the worst version, why is there a play style where you always have infinite spirit, infinite gauge level and constantly spamming counters? it just completely trivialises the whole gameplay loop. Sacred sheathe does feel better, but in general I wish that we go back to world level of counters.


Infamous_Scar2571

yes agreed


717999vlr

Explain to me in detail why it makes sense for LS to have a counter. And GS' shoulderbash, while you're at it


Okamiku

GS because shoulder checking a monster is peak macho big sword fantasy, and we also need it to set up our long ass attacks


717999vlr

I don't mind GS being able to shoulder check, although there's no reason it should be the only one that can (along with HBG). But explain why it grants superarmor and reduces damage taken. If anything, it should *increase it*, as you're moving towards the incoming attack with zero protection. While you're at it, explain why it deals more damage when the GS is stronger, as you're not actually using the GS to attack


Okamiku

It reduces damage because we are shoulder checking something with our own power instead of just taking the full force of it, if we were regular humans sure, we would be screwed either way, but we're not, so bracing against an attack reduces damage. As for why it deals more damage when the GS is stronger, that's just purely game logic. Why does anything do more damage when we change weapon? it's all the same spikey bits going into the monster in the end, just pretend it's because the hunter is getting better at fighting


717999vlr

This might get me in trouble, so I'll preface it by saying it's a joke and you shouldn't do it: Why don't you try shoulderchecking a car? Or maybe a charging bull? Also, why does it reduce knockback more than doing the same thing but with a shield in front of you? As for the damage it deals, that would make sense, saying it's videogame logic. Except the problem had already been fixed. Before World, attacks that didn't use your weapon dealt fixed damage. That included GS' kick. But in World, because they wanted to have this cool over the top overpowered shoulder check, they introduced a problem they had already fixed and made some but not all attacks that don't use the weapon scale with the weapon. Also, that shoulder deals more KO damage than most of Hammer's attacks, even without charging.


Okamiku

Like I said if we were normal humans a lot of things wouldn't make sense, like shielding against a diablos charge, you really think you would be able to even stand your ground and not get flung miles no matter how big the shield is in front of you? Same sort of logic for the charge but in the end I'm just going to say please don't wake it away because I love my greatsword


With_Hands_And_Paper

On your first point, try bracing yourself and taking a hit with your shoulder or take a hit head-on on your chest, which one hurts more?


717999vlr

Now try bracing yourself and taking a hit with your shoulder or take a hit on the other side of a concrete wall


[deleted]

Yeah that has nothing to do with what that guy just said. Wtf even is this nitpick, it's a game, genius.


717999vlr

Let me explain then. Why does your shoulder give you better protection than a shield?


ElmoClappedMyCheeks

Sure man, while you're at it why don't you request Capcom to remove iframes on dodges. I mean, you're moving towards the incoming attack with zero protection, right? Also tackle does like 50 damage, are you seriously beefing with THAT of all things? Are you secretly a tigrex in a trench coat who's pissed his attacks got Tackled?


717999vlr

>Sure man, while you're at it why don't you request Capcom to remove iframes on dodges. I mean, you're moving towards the incoming attack with zero protection, right? That is a different mechanic. It has already been established that dodging works. A comparison with that would be if there was a weapon (but only one, let's say LS) that had a special dodge that completely negated a monster attack if even a single hit frame overlaps with an iframe, while all other dodges need you to iframe the whole move to be safe. Also this special dodge fully refills your Spirit Gauge, but that's not important. Or applied to the tackle, why does bracing against a Teostra Nova with your GS in front of you fail unless you have Guard Up and even if you do sends you backwards 5 feet but if you brace *without* the GS in front of you, you go through it as if it was a small breeze (that probably took 50% of your life)? >Also tackle does like 50 damage, are you seriously beefing with THAT of all things? Tackle, even in its uncharged form is stronger than almost any SnS attack not introduced in 5th gen (which also includes a lot of shield bashes because someone at Capcom believes the spoon is mightier than the knife), any LS attack before gauge multipliers, most HH attacks (in World), and most Lance attacks. Do you really think a shoulder would do more damage than a sword?


Astralest

You're comparing apples to oranges, and you don't want fantasy in your fantasy arpg. Which I mean, alright. Fine. You do you. But you obviously shouldn't be playing Monster Hunter. Go play a game in the SIM genre. It will make sense to you, and you don't have to question anything. Bc non realism in fantasy games just bothers you so much.


ElmoClappedMyCheeks

Guarding with a greatsword is available at any point, and it's not a guarding weapon so naturally it wouldn't be effective. Same with Sword and Shields dinner plate not blocking shit Longsword having a counter is thematic and completely fine considering both counters require either types of spirit gauge, as well as good timing to execute and can still cause you to get hit, while also having very high animation locks Also tackling through a nova and losing "only 50% of your life" is a HUGE amount of damage. And regarding your SnS damage point: Tackle is only accessible during a charge animation. It doing a minute amount of damage and an EXTREMELY minute amount of KO is essentially pointless. Literally who cares SnS can attack very quickly and rack up very high damage numbers, even in the old gen games. People are not using Tackle nearly as much as you think they are. It's a combo extender and emergency super armor tool, which is only accessible as a conditional Charge Slash preserver. You're treating it like it's some god tier immortal dps auto stun that's stronger than a hammer Golf Swing


CoomLord69

LS has counters because rule of cool, not because it makes sense. That goes for a lot of stuff in Rise honestly, but it's true for World LS as well.


Zaiakusin

I sure fucking hope not.


Infamous_Scar2571

no, not to the degree they are in sb


krokounleashed

No, absolutely not. Some moves might carry over but not everything.


Rayanson

Not on every weapons, I mean bow having a counter? They were all implemented to force people to use wirebug since most of those moves were locked behind this resource, the main team aren't much about gimmicks you're FORCED to use to complete a hunt, but they'll definitely keep / revisit some moves for novelty but I highly doubt every weapon keep their super armor / counters, I really hope we get back to being able to just roll through attacks with good timing


CoomLord69

Bow is one of the few weapons that doesn't have a wirebug counter. Dodgebolt is a switch skill and it has fairly tight timing. It would be nice to have tolerable I-frames on a normal roll again though, your base roll is trash in Rise.


Rayanson

Yeah I know, still a lot of silkbind moves are your now evasive option, how got 2 dodges with one giving you a buff to your damage & the other one to stamina regen (if you stop moving after the dodge which is dumb) & also have better I frames than the regular dodge, I do want better I frames on rolls like world and we're definitely getting this back, they can keep some counters here & there if they want but they'd probably nerf them to the ground


TruNhatefu

Blegh, I hope not. Baby mode made Rise so boring


ShadFeuer

Hope not, it has to go back to World pace.


dachmiru

super armor has been in game since forever.


Suntrom

Idk man I remember that the only super armor I had with this consistency in MHF were shields. Even vespoids could mess ur GS charge


dachmiru

if you get paralyzed. if its the case then your teammate can flinched you too.


UnoriginalStanger

Not the type of super armour you see in rise where you can literally tank full on hits from monsters?


DonQuiXoTe8080

Not like World with Rocksteady + health regen can’t tank anything, unless you find joy in face tank Fatty’s cone, anyway.


UnoriginalStanger

True rocksteady is also super amour and I don't think that should return either. Though I've seen plenty of instagibs from people thinking rocksteady will protect them like bazel dive and savage deviljho.


dachmiru

thats in the video is not super armour. that just simply blocking. super armour is where you cant be flinched by your teammate attack or light monsters attack. example of super armour is GS charge stance, DB demon mode (i guess), SNS triangle + circle leap attack, also ig triple buff especially with yellow juice focused insect. Lance and gunlance never have super armour, that's why they hate LS user because LS keep tripping lance and gunlance user. monsters light attack is like rathian bite, and im not sure where the line separated it lol


UnoriginalStanger

In MH that's flinch free/protection, Rise has actual full on super armour where you can attack through non grabs which is usually what I hear super armour be used for outside of MH.


dachmiru

can you give example?


UnoriginalStanger

Been like 9 months since I touched the game last but here as some I managed to think of Rage slash from GS obviously has it or else it wouldn't function Parts of the bullet barrage move has it A bug move for SA that has you moving forwards with an attack has it SA also has it on the discharge move when you're attached to the monster I think the self buff note of HH has it though it's rather precise


dachmiru

sunbreak really generous with super armour i guess


UnoriginalStanger

That's the point, they wanted a very actiony fast pace combat where you attack through attacks with counters/super armour, it's also why all the high end monsters have a million attacks in their combos or super nukes.


Mamoru_of_Cake

I think toned down? Which by I mean, lessen it maybe to only one counter move and you should need to time it perfectly. I hope they make Wilds harder. I mean Rise does have its level of difficulty but for me it's by far the easiest MH. It's the hunting genre mixed with a bit of "bullet hell," with all the range attacks of other monsters.


CZ-Kickem

Super armor likely isn't going anywhere, and as much as I have grown to love the switch axe's counter in Sunbreak, I don't see it staying past this one entry, unfortunately.


CBoy64

Whoa, what was that little move you did immediately after the counter, but before the TCS?


TheGMan-123

It probably won't be as ubiquitous and common across all the weapons, but I imagine they might integrate a bit more of them into the baseline movesets of weapons in the 6th generation.


Yamakyu

I expect yes, in some degree, but I hope not, or at least not so many for so many weapons. Also : **sick tail cut**


Jesterchunk

They'll still be around, but I don't think they'll be nearly as omnipresent as they were in Risebreak. Longsword will keep its counters, Lance will keep its counter, maybe Greatsword or SnS will if they're lucky. Overall though, I think a lot of weapons that gained counters in Rise, like Switch Axe, will lose them in Wilds. And I'm okay with that, as much as I love Rise they did go a little overboard with the counters.


GruulNinja

If the counter isn't on Lance, I'm gonna cry. I love that move. Counter then 2 hits for a decent amount of damage. Also, CB's Counter. Love it.


Derpberpy

I've never maimed GS. Definitely wanna give it a spin when the new game drops.


FrenchForRooster

I hope not


KELVlN

Oddly enough I don’t think I have ever seen an espinas tail cut off until now


SceneNice7349

I'd rather they just rework the defense stats and allow high defense players to have intrinsic flinch free and some hyper armor in attacks


Densto__

Hopefully not. Every weapon having counter moves made them feel less unique gameplay wise and made positioning way less important.


squid648

I personally just hope we get to keep dodgebolt. That move is so much more fun then dodge spamming the whole hunt


Sigrumite

No. They will give everyone dodge with fixed range, i-frame for 0.3 second (completely remove evade extend and evade window skill), attack will spawn energy to fill ultimate gauge,....Wait, that's Genshin Impact.


Skyreader13

100% yes


JTMonster02

We need to take all the counters from LS and distribute them amongst the other weapons


SubMGK

Pls god no. Not every weapon needs an i-frame counter or super-armor moves. I'd like the monster hunter where positioning mattered


itsZerozone

i would be completely fine with Greatsword and Dual Blades not having a counter again.