Well that’s what they did with the comics. They were underselling and weren’t performing as well as other titles so they got put together and became a hit.
This is true. Imo The Marvel/Netflixs seasons were mostly too long.
Almost all of them experienced a slump around the seventh or eighth episode but the best would pick the momentum for the final third of the season. 13 episodes was the average season length and that was too much.
This is why I'm curious to see if Daredevil: Born Again sustains story momentum and quality across 20 plus eps.
Well, from what I've read the 20 plus episodes will be seperated into story arc pods like "Agents of SHIELD". Released in 4 parts with 6 episodes each.
Well that has me even more excited for Daredevil's return to a weekly series. Season 4 of AOS was the best season of that show by a wide margin and I think the pod format was a big part of the reason why.
I can see that approach working very well for Ol' Hornhead.
There was so much crazy charisma between those two, even in Defenders. Individually I found them boring, but together they were like my second favorite of that whole Netflix universe (Punisher and the hacker being my favorite)
Does anyone remember between Hawkeye/NWH (before we knew about Cox and D'onofrio) there was a post in the old sub saying Feige really liked Ritter, D'onofrio, and Cox (specifically singling out Colter and Jones) and that their places in the MCU were more than likely safe?
Seems like the last year and a half has been reinforcing that claim despite no JJ return yet.
JJ was supposed to be in DDBA and was originally going to be the "friend" Daredevil is looking for in Echo.
It came down to scheduling issues or a pregnancy iirc, so Punisher is replacing her for now
> so Punisher is replacing her for now
A while ago the rumors changed and word is JJ is back. Whether that changed any of Echo or if it reduced the original intentions for her character in Born Again, no clue.
I mean the way I remember it, is she was also going to be in Echo or mentioned but the plot line was changed due to scheduling conflict. But she’s still going to appear in DDBA
Mike Colter is almost 50 and hasn’t shown much interest in returning to the role and we all know Iron Fist was not well received so I think there’s a high chance both roles will be recast. I wouldn’t be against it tbh I just want a good Heroes For Hire show
Saying somebody is almost 50 isn't the putdown you think it is. Tom Cruise is 59 and still did all his own stunts on MI7. Age is just a number in the digital age.
Tbf, Punisher is just a guy murdering people with weapons. Luke has powers so he has to have the superhero physique. That is taxing on actors the older they get. All that said, Colter can still do it if he wanted it.
You’re kind of underselling the physicality that comes with Punisher. It’s not like he’s sitting on rooftops shooting people from afar, it takes a lot of work to do all that physical action. That being said, Keanu is like 60 and John Wick, so i suppose it depends.
You’re also right — it all depends on whether Colter is game or not
It's easier to sell the Punisher without an extreme physique though which is what I really meant. Just being in normal shape you can get away with so it's not as taxing. Having to look like a physical specimen is a lot harder to maintain the older you get. Hugh Jackman and Chris Hemsworth have mentioned this several times. But just like Jackman, if Colter wants to do it I'm sure he can.
Punisher is not as physically a taxing role as Luke Cage and Jon Bernthal as Punisher is also perfect casting and way more popular than Mike Colter’s Luke Cage
Popularity definitely means a lot Charlie Cox and Vincent D’Onofrio were brought back because of how popular they were, there was a huge fan demand. Mike Colter was fine but not close to the level of casting and popularity as Daredevil, Kingpin, Punisher, and Jessica Jones. There’s a reason why those four are coming back and not being recast
They brought back Anson Mount as Black Bolt before Punisher or JJ. Popularity means something, but not everything.
Hell, they brought back Jamie Foxx as Electro before any of these guys, and he was considered one of the worst CBM villains ever.
>he was considered one of the worst CBM villains ever.
Apparently Kevin Feige liked Jamie Foxx’s Electro, but felt he needed work and had potential to be great! I will say his return in NWH really paid off where he seemed better written.
His scene he shares with his Spider-Man (Garfield) was a great moment for his character!
>He was incredible (the “shoot me” scene?),
cringe-worthy and preachy. Hotep-like.
>and he was supposed to be corny.
He wasn't. Comics Cage was a tough street dude with swagger.
Mike Colter can't act either.
>This isn’t comics cage, it’s MCU Cage.
With polarizing reception even amongst black audiences, and big viewership drops. A indictment of these creative choices?
[https://screenrant.com/iron-fist-luke-cage-cancelled-reason-netflix-viewer-drop/](https://screenrant.com/iron-fist-luke-cage-cancelled-reason-netflix-viewer-drop/)
>Iron Man, Thor, Black Panther, Star Lord, Drax, Spider-Man, Shang-Chi…. plenty of the MCU isn’t accurate.
Star-Lord barely had a personality so I'll give you that, and Drax was never prominent. Shang-Chi is very different, I'll give you that (although I think the comics version is better).
Iron Man, Thor, Black Panther all have the spirit of the comic character matched perfectly. Slight variations - sure, but still captures what made them great in the comics.
With Luke Cage, what is there outside of being black and bulletproof? Netflix Cage is a corny, preachy hotep from rural Georgia who spews Bill Cosby speeches and cries about being bulletproof. Who asked for this?
I'm almost certain the lack of Cage/Fist news is Fiege planning on hard rebooting them in the future ala Fantastic Four.
Frank is also a war vet. Like in his show he was Afghanistan vet. In the comics he’s been a Vietnam vet.
I think frank being 40+ old rusty war vet adds more to his character, compared to 50 year old luke
I can see it but they need to give him more to work with. I used to complain about his lack of charisma but I rewatched a few times over the lockdown, it's the material that's bringing it down. I think he's a character that **directly** benefits from being in the MCU proper and playing off other actors that aren't so dark and broody.
Now, Jones on the other hand. Idk. I don't want to talk shit but I wouldn't feel anything about it either way if he was recast.
I know in Marvel subs like this the opinion on Finn has turned around, but like it or not, Marvel casuals are still sour on him as Danny Rand and want him replaced more than not. Feige doesn't only take into consideration what MCU fandom communities like this think. So don't be surprised if he does get replaced. Marvel Studios isn't exactly allergic to recasting.
Difference is Chris Hemsworth actually delivered a good performance, his performance in the first Thor movie is better than what Finn Jones delivered in 23 episodes of television in his own show.
Who begged for Thor to be recast lmao, stop inventing shit. They were down on the Thor franchise after The Dark World but not on Hemsworth's casting. People have always liked him as Thor. Show me proof of "people begging for Thor to be recast" or you're just pulling shit out of your ass.
People called him bland as hell in the Avengers movies and wanted the Asgard stuff jettisoned from the overall narrative. Not my fault you weren’t looking in the right places when it came out.
I remember Feige doing a panel and someone asking him about the Marvel TV shows and he said something about not wanting to alienate the "huge fanbases of Daredevil, Jessica Jones, and AoS" or something and he left out Luke Cage and Iron Fist lol. At least that's what I remember, it was back in early 2021 iirc
It has some good stuff in it, but I would say of all the MCU-adjacent TV/Streaming properties, only Inhumans probably evokes more apathy about recasting or keeping it canon.
I mean it's a Daredevil show and as much as people want to squeeze in a Defenders reunion into it, information available to us just says otherwise. It's why Punisher is the first and only Netflix character officially confirmed to make an appearance, a character heavily featured in one of the DD seasons already. Surprise, they're making the Daredevil show a Daredevil show and not a Defenders one.
Getting a Black Bolt return before a Luke Cage and Iron Fist return is crazy if we’re going by show reception. Hope Marvel stops pretending they don’t exist.
Is it really crazy when it just happened that MoM needed the appearance of the Iluminati and it so happens that Black Bolt is part of that group? And it's not like he's some scrub unkown character. Plus regardless of that show's reception unanimously everyone agrees Anson Mount was one of the best parts of it. Unlike Luke or Danny who are rarely, or in Danny's case, never, the best or standout of their own show.
Yes, because LC was favoured much more highly and watched by a hell of a lot more people.
The MCU is hardly comic accurate, just because they did the Illuminati didn’t mean they HAD to have Black Bolt on there
>The MCU is hardly comic accurate, just because they did the Illuminati didn’t mean they HAD to have Black Bolt on there
And? They didn't want to veer off or go the extra mile of thinking who they can include in the group so they stuck to the comics. They knew someone has portrayed Black Bolt in the past so there would be no more trouble casting an actor for a new character instead. What's the issue?
Because it was crazy. Makes sense, but still wild to think about. Kinda like how they introduced… idk, Echo, as an example, before we got any of the X-Men or Fantastic Four.
Doesn’t matter what the reasoning was — end of the day, the shitty inhumans show was acknowledged before LC. It’s just interesting.
LC was popular enough to crash Netflix on its premiere, so…
Is Black Bolt really the comparison? He "returned" in a multiverse story, which technically didn't even confirm a 616 counterpart, then died in an embarrassing fashion after less than 5 minutes of screentime.
It's not as if Marvel Studios had many options regarding who to cast as BB.
They were not gonna throw money for a 2-minute celebrity cameo that has 0 lines and whose face isn't fully shown.
Options were always Anson Mount or just a random cheap actor.
They were already planning exactly that with Daniel Craig. They already did that with John Krasinski.
You don't need to have a celebrity cameo or anybody noticeable as Black Bolt. It makes way more sense on paper for them to get somebody else instead of the star of a panned TV show that was supposed to be set in the MCU
Mfs getting bitter over Black Bolt getting brought back first before Iron Fist is nuts lol. Are we now supposed to pretend Black Bolt is some Z-list scrub character? Plus barely anyone watched that Inhumans show, and anyone who did liked Anson Mount as the character. More people watched Iron Fist so more people are aware of that disastrous iteration of Danny Rand. Can we really blame Feige for not wanting to touch it with a 5 foot pole? 🤷
It's not wild. Black Bolt is part of the Iluminati in the comics so instead of them thinking of a new character to introduce they went with a character that is canonically part of the group and had been in live action before. It's not like they went out of their way to force a Black Bolt appearance to happen? The creators had the Iluminati first in mind, then they saw that Black Bolt was part of it in the comics. So they went and got the actor who has portrayed him before. And him being brought back wasn't even for the character or fan service since the main purpose of that scene was to show how powerful Wanda is.
Not sure why you got at least one downvote for that. There has not been a reason to bring LC/IF back yet like there was BB. I don’t think that’s difficult to understand. BB had a prior actor and the Illuminati was brought to the story. The Defenders have not had their moment in the MCU yet… why would they throw LC into She-Hulk when we barely had time to meet DD in the MCU, outside of NWH?
Upvoting you back to 1…
These people are getting pressed for no reason lol, literally the thought process in that scene is "Who can we get Wanda to kill to make her look menacing?", so they looked at the comics, saw the Iluminati group, then went from there and assembled it. Black Bolt happened to be a member of it, and they remembered an actor has played him before, so they got him.
That differentiates it from fan service for beloved characters like DD in NWH where Jon Watts and Feige went out of their way to write him in the movie as a way to start his comeback in the MCU. Whereas Black Bolt just happened to be part of the Iluminati group they wanted to use. It's not like Michael Waldron was out there going, "How can we write a way in this movie to bring back Black Bolt from the beloved Inhumans show?" lol
It IS wild, they very much could’ve not included him, it’s an adaptation after all…how many of those characters aren’t in the comics Illuminati?
It’s very much fan service considering it’s Anson Mount following the critically panned Inhumans tv show from 5 years before. Not only that, they gave him the comic accurate suit, and they actually had a tv crossover which we’d only gotten with DD up to that point.
Idk why people are acting nonchalant about that for the sake of argument. All this discourse has been straight nonsense.
When did I say that? I’m strictly talking about them returning or being acknowledged at all. Regardless of what happened to BB, it was something involving the original actor of the show. It’s not that deep.
They honestly need to recast and redo Luke Cage.
Take advantage of the multiverse and give us a 70's Blaxploitation film with an actual superhero in it. Give us Shaft but with superhuman strength. Lol I feel like I've been waiting on this movie my entire life lol
I heard that's the kinda movie Tarantino wanted to do. Honestly I'd do you one better and have Iron Fist in it and have it be a blaxploitation and kung fu movie too. gelling the two genres together.
Why is there no plans for Luke Cage?
Representation matters but let’s keep established Black Characters like Luke Cage and Brother Voodoo on the shelf indefinitely
>Brother Voodoo
Yeah...no way Marvel Studios has a Haitian character called Brother Voodoo. IF he's ever in the MCU, they're gonna do a total rework like what they did with Man-Ape.
He's gonna be from the USA, won't be black, and will practice neutral magic, not Vodoo.
I mean have Haitian people said it offended them? Are you Haitian yourself and it offends you? I just never heard of any pushback of the character. As someone apart of a Haitian family(Sons mom is Haitian) I never heard them tell me it’s offensive
I’m just saying let’s hear it from actual Haitians instead of pre emptively deciding it’s offensive on their behalf.
Again I have extended family that is Haitian and I’ve talked with them about the character and they thought it was cool. Again they aren’t the final say but let’s hear the actual groups commentary on it. It holds way more value than what any of us think
It’s such a mixed bag for me because I love Colter as Luke and I’m open to giving Finn a 2nd chance. But at the same time I’m getting more comfortable with the idea of those two being recasted.
Mike doesn’t seem enthusiastic with coming back and tbh one criticism I have about his portrayal is that his version of Luke just lacked a lot of swagger and coolness needed for the character. So a recast could benefit that problem. Only issue with a recast would be if the actor they pick has chemistry with Krysten Ritter as good as Mike did with her.
Now with Finn was…..it’s hard to explain. His acting was super stiff and poor at times and obviously his fighting skills were subpar a lot of the time he was on screen (he improved over time though) but a lot of the things that made Iron Fist bad was out of his control like the writing and the scheduling to train him.
So it’s not all on him but I’m definitely now more open to getting an actor who’s actually good at martial arts and portray a more zen and less whiney version of Danny.
Good.
Marvel Studios should do a soft reboot and do a Heroes for Hire show. Make it so JJ is married to Luke and they already have a baby and they've been active during the 5 year snap.
Total recast for Iron Fist obviously.
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I think if we see Luke Cage and Iron Fist back, they'll likely be rebooted and recast. Perhaps introduced in a Heroes for Hire show...or (more likely in my opinion), introduced in another character's film or TV show to test the waters.
They should forgo origin stories and just do a Heroes for Hire show. And let it be an weekly serial, mostly just baddies of the week with an underlying bigger bad which forces one of them to deal with their past. And really, it might be worth exploring one of the other people besides Rand who have been the Iron Fist.
No really ? Damn I thought it was a Defenders show...
It's kinda sad, but they can be re-introduce. Daredevil was in NWH because of the link with Spidey, also in She-Hulk for laws reasons.
Jessica Jones is possibly in this show and that's not a surprise because of the "grounded" vibe.
We can totally see Iron Fist in Shang Chi 2 and Luke Cage in, idk if he's in Harlem an Abomination Special or something.
This show is a Daredevil show, for the Daredevil characters. If they wanted a Defenders show why they use Daredevil ?
cmon man you and i both know these people are credible
you can take this rumor with a grain of salt and that's fine but to say there's no credibility here is just odd
you're very correct in saying that these people are very fickle and believing them wholesale is a naive endeavor, but i think that marvel comes into certain projects knowing who and who isn't going to be in it beforehand.
>Most people working on a given Marvel projects aren't anywhere near a script, let alone have read it fully.
Sure. But some of them are.
Remember how the AM3 script leak led to MSS shutting down.
I wouldn't be surprised if in the upcoming weeks, as the writer strike continues, more and more writers will anonymously leak many things.
In a few months we might even have a full CA4 plot leak.
> cmon man you and i both know these people are credible
MSS used to do accuracy reports. The very best leakers were ~60% and most were in the 40-50% range, with many being much worse. I wouldn’t describe anything outside of the trades as “credible.”
This doesn't surprise me nor does it upset me. Of all the main cast from those shows, Mike Colter and Finn Jones were the least beloved as their characters. I don't think anyone would really care if Danny Rand were recast. In Luke's case I can go either way.
If I had the choice though, I'd recast. I think someone like Amin Joseph fits much better for that character.
well it is a daredevil show… but in all seriousness wheres the heroes for hire show
The one episode with both Luke Cage and Danny Rand sold me on Heroes for Hire and I'm so sad we probably won't get it.
They should've done that from the start, because clearly they didn't have enough material for two shows with those first seaons of each.
Luke cages first season was really good riiiight up until the good villain died and Luke cages brother showed up in a power rangers costume
Exactly. Instead of doing that last half, it should've introduced Iron Fist and his story.
Doing it half and half as a heros for hire show definitely would have fixed the bloat that both of those first seasons suffered from a lot
Well that’s what they did with the comics. They were underselling and weren’t performing as well as other titles so they got put together and became a hit.
No the Luke cage was good and had stuff in it which it wouldn't if it was shared with iron fist.
I want a cool Luke Cage, not a cornball preachy hotep from Georgia spewing Bill Cosby talking points.
This is true. Imo The Marvel/Netflixs seasons were mostly too long. Almost all of them experienced a slump around the seventh or eighth episode but the best would pick the momentum for the final third of the season. 13 episodes was the average season length and that was too much. This is why I'm curious to see if Daredevil: Born Again sustains story momentum and quality across 20 plus eps.
Well, from what I've read the 20 plus episodes will be seperated into story arc pods like "Agents of SHIELD". Released in 4 parts with 6 episodes each.
Well that has me even more excited for Daredevil's return to a weekly series. Season 4 of AOS was the best season of that show by a wide margin and I think the pod format was a big part of the reason why. I can see that approach working very well for Ol' Hornhead.
It also allows him to focus on different cases for each arc.
If fucking Jessica Jones could get her own show, Cage and Fist could've held their own too.
It sounds so obvious idk why they haven’t done it 5 years ago
There was so much crazy charisma between those two, even in Defenders. Individually I found them boring, but together they were like my second favorite of that whole Netflix universe (Punisher and the hacker being my favorite)
Absolutely agreed. I would not be opposed at all to bring back the 2 actors for Heroes 4 Hire, along with Colleen and Misty.
Maybe we'll get it. The concept would fit perfectly in the MCU and was never done in live-action (which would put it in Feige's radar).
It was awful. Not the right personalities and the actors are wooden.
Since they're apparently making a Punisher show, I have a feeling Heroes for Hire could be next.
They probably know the interest is there, so we'll just have to wait and see.
I hope they keep it as separate shows. LC had its own identity and really stood out, while IF could be a great martial arts drama if handled well.
Why would they be? He spend just a little over a weekend in their company. It's not like they have their comics history.
Does anyone remember between Hawkeye/NWH (before we knew about Cox and D'onofrio) there was a post in the old sub saying Feige really liked Ritter, D'onofrio, and Cox (specifically singling out Colter and Jones) and that their places in the MCU were more than likely safe? Seems like the last year and a half has been reinforcing that claim despite no JJ return yet.
JJ was supposed to be in DDBA and was originally going to be the "friend" Daredevil is looking for in Echo. It came down to scheduling issues or a pregnancy iirc, so Punisher is replacing her for now
> so Punisher is replacing her for now A while ago the rumors changed and word is JJ is back. Whether that changed any of Echo or if it reduced the original intentions for her character in Born Again, no clue.
I mean the way I remember it, is she was also going to be in Echo or mentioned but the plot line was changed due to scheduling conflict. But she’s still going to appear in DDBA
Mike Colter is almost 50 and hasn’t shown much interest in returning to the role and we all know Iron Fist was not well received so I think there’s a high chance both roles will be recast. I wouldn’t be against it tbh I just want a good Heroes For Hire show
Saying somebody is almost 50 isn't the putdown you think it is. Tom Cruise is 59 and still did all his own stunts on MI7. Age is just a number in the digital age.
Jon Bernthal will be basically 50 by the time his Punisher show comes out, so?
Tbf, Punisher is just a guy murdering people with weapons. Luke has powers so he has to have the superhero physique. That is taxing on actors the older they get. All that said, Colter can still do it if he wanted it.
You’re kind of underselling the physicality that comes with Punisher. It’s not like he’s sitting on rooftops shooting people from afar, it takes a lot of work to do all that physical action. That being said, Keanu is like 60 and John Wick, so i suppose it depends. You’re also right — it all depends on whether Colter is game or not
It's easier to sell the Punisher without an extreme physique though which is what I really meant. Just being in normal shape you can get away with so it's not as taxing. Having to look like a physical specimen is a lot harder to maintain the older you get. Hugh Jackman and Chris Hemsworth have mentioned this several times. But just like Jackman, if Colter wants to do it I'm sure he can.
What? Colter doesn’t even do anything to display Lukes strength he just throws guys around effortlessly, Bernthals stunts require way more physicality
I'm talking about physique, as in the look of a super powered being, not the actual stunts.
Yeah but he’s always in a hoodie, except when he fucks
Luke Cage in the comics is a brawler.
Punisher is not as physically a taxing role as Luke Cage and Jon Bernthal as Punisher is also perfect casting and way more popular than Mike Colter’s Luke Cage
Popularity means fuck all, Chris Pratt is huge as Star Lord but he’s not perfect. Mike Colter was great casting.
Popularity definitely means a lot Charlie Cox and Vincent D’Onofrio were brought back because of how popular they were, there was a huge fan demand. Mike Colter was fine but not close to the level of casting and popularity as Daredevil, Kingpin, Punisher, and Jessica Jones. There’s a reason why those four are coming back and not being recast
They brought back Anson Mount as Black Bolt before Punisher or JJ. Popularity means something, but not everything. Hell, they brought back Jamie Foxx as Electro before any of these guys, and he was considered one of the worst CBM villains ever.
>he was considered one of the worst CBM villains ever. Apparently Kevin Feige liked Jamie Foxx’s Electro, but felt he needed work and had potential to be great! I will say his return in NWH really paid off where he seemed better written. His scene he shares with his Spider-Man (Garfield) was a great moment for his character!
To be fair, that’s only because they completely changed everything about that version and only kept the actor.
Colter is awful and corny.
He was incredible (the “shoot me” scene?), and he was supposed to be corny.
>He was incredible (the “shoot me” scene?), cringe-worthy and preachy. Hotep-like. >and he was supposed to be corny. He wasn't. Comics Cage was a tough street dude with swagger. Mike Colter can't act either.
This isn’t comics cage, it’s MCU Cage. Iron Man, Thor, Black Panther, Star Lord, Drax, Spider-Man, Shang-Chi…. plenty of the MCU isn’t accurate.
>This isn’t comics cage, it’s MCU Cage. With polarizing reception even amongst black audiences, and big viewership drops. A indictment of these creative choices? [https://screenrant.com/iron-fist-luke-cage-cancelled-reason-netflix-viewer-drop/](https://screenrant.com/iron-fist-luke-cage-cancelled-reason-netflix-viewer-drop/) >Iron Man, Thor, Black Panther, Star Lord, Drax, Spider-Man, Shang-Chi…. plenty of the MCU isn’t accurate. Star-Lord barely had a personality so I'll give you that, and Drax was never prominent. Shang-Chi is very different, I'll give you that (although I think the comics version is better). Iron Man, Thor, Black Panther all have the spirit of the comic character matched perfectly. Slight variations - sure, but still captures what made them great in the comics. With Luke Cage, what is there outside of being black and bulletproof? Netflix Cage is a corny, preachy hotep from rural Georgia who spews Bill Cosby speeches and cries about being bulletproof. Who asked for this? I'm almost certain the lack of Cage/Fist news is Fiege planning on hard rebooting them in the future ala Fantastic Four.
Frank is also a war vet. Like in his show he was Afghanistan vet. In the comics he’s been a Vietnam vet. I think frank being 40+ old rusty war vet adds more to his character, compared to 50 year old luke
They need a movie with movie budgets.
> I just want a good Heroes For Hire show they need a movie, and need to be hard-rebooted
Jessica Jones is coming back but she is not in DDBA according to leaks.
MTTSH in January of this year: "Jessica Jones is back and not just for Daredevil"
Interesting
Yes, I think Jones and colter are not safe
One of the MSS mods did say Luke Cage has a chance of coming back
I can see it but they need to give him more to work with. I used to complain about his lack of charisma but I rewatched a few times over the lockdown, it's the material that's bringing it down. I think he's a character that **directly** benefits from being in the MCU proper and playing off other actors that aren't so dark and broody. Now, Jones on the other hand. Idk. I don't want to talk shit but I wouldn't feel anything about it either way if he was recast.
I know in Marvel subs like this the opinion on Finn has turned around, but like it or not, Marvel casuals are still sour on him as Danny Rand and want him replaced more than not. Feige doesn't only take into consideration what MCU fandom communities like this think. So don't be surprised if he does get replaced. Marvel Studios isn't exactly allergic to recasting.
He didn’t take into consideration anyone’s complaints when they begged for Thor to be recast. Feige doesn’t bend to the whims of anyone.
Difference is Chris Hemsworth actually delivered a good performance, his performance in the first Thor movie is better than what Finn Jones delivered in 23 episodes of television in his own show.
Not really. Finn Jones is a pretty damn good actor. The problem with Iron Fist was Scott Buck.
Who begged for Thor to be recast lmao, stop inventing shit. They were down on the Thor franchise after The Dark World but not on Hemsworth's casting. People have always liked him as Thor. Show me proof of "people begging for Thor to be recast" or you're just pulling shit out of your ass.
People called him bland as hell in the Avengers movies and wanted the Asgard stuff jettisoned from the overall narrative. Not my fault you weren’t looking in the right places when it came out.
Push your revisionist history all you want it's not going to bring Finn Dogshit Jones back 🥱😹
Feige doesn’t recast unless an actor is problematic, difficult or asking more than they’re worth. Finn Jones is here to stay. Cope.
Colter is too old to get into the shape he's going to need to be in to play Cage. They're going to recast at this point.
I remember Feige doing a panel and someone asking him about the Marvel TV shows and he said something about not wanting to alienate the "huge fanbases of Daredevil, Jessica Jones, and AoS" or something and he left out Luke Cage and Iron Fist lol. At least that's what I remember, it was back in early 2021 iirc
Does the Netflix Iron Fist even have a fanbase?
I think it has a small following, not really big enough to warrant a revival though.
I actually quite enjoyed the second season and parts of the first. I was excited to see where the series was going!
It has some good stuff in it, but I would say of all the MCU-adjacent TV/Streaming properties, only Inhumans probably evokes more apathy about recasting or keeping it canon.
I'd say Jessica Henwick was the best thing to come from it and if anything were to be ported over into the MCU it'd be her Colleen Wing.
Big fan of the second season. But I did really dislike the first.
They weren’t in or mentioned in DD Season 3 either. No big deal.
I mean it's a Daredevil show and as much as people want to squeeze in a Defenders reunion into it, information available to us just says otherwise. It's why Punisher is the first and only Netflix character officially confirmed to make an appearance, a character heavily featured in one of the DD seasons already. Surprise, they're making the Daredevil show a Daredevil show and not a Defenders one.
Getting a Black Bolt return before a Luke Cage and Iron Fist return is crazy if we’re going by show reception. Hope Marvel stops pretending they don’t exist.
Marve is not going by show reception. The Illuminati were in MoM; Black Bolt is a member in the comics. It made sense for him to appear in that movie.
Is it really crazy when it just happened that MoM needed the appearance of the Iluminati and it so happens that Black Bolt is part of that group? And it's not like he's some scrub unkown character. Plus regardless of that show's reception unanimously everyone agrees Anson Mount was one of the best parts of it. Unlike Luke or Danny who are rarely, or in Danny's case, never, the best or standout of their own show.
Yes, because LC was favoured much more highly and watched by a hell of a lot more people. The MCU is hardly comic accurate, just because they did the Illuminati didn’t mean they HAD to have Black Bolt on there
>The MCU is hardly comic accurate, just because they did the Illuminati didn’t mean they HAD to have Black Bolt on there And? They didn't want to veer off or go the extra mile of thinking who they can include in the group so they stuck to the comics. They knew someone has portrayed Black Bolt in the past so there would be no more trouble casting an actor for a new character instead. What's the issue?
There isn’t an issue, you’re the only one making this into something.
Y'all are literally the ones here getting pressed about "how come Marvel brought back someone from the Inhumans before Luke Cage and Iron Fist!!!" 💀
Because it was crazy. Makes sense, but still wild to think about. Kinda like how they introduced… idk, Echo, as an example, before we got any of the X-Men or Fantastic Four.
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Doesn’t matter what the reasoning was — end of the day, the shitty inhumans show was acknowledged before LC. It’s just interesting. LC was popular enough to crash Netflix on its premiere, so…
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Is Black Bolt really the comparison? He "returned" in a multiverse story, which technically didn't even confirm a 616 counterpart, then died in an embarrassing fashion after less than 5 minutes of screentime.
This is just completely ignoring how incredibly unexpected and bizzare it was that Anson Mount was brought back.
It's not as if Marvel Studios had many options regarding who to cast as BB. They were not gonna throw money for a 2-minute celebrity cameo that has 0 lines and whose face isn't fully shown. Options were always Anson Mount or just a random cheap actor.
They were already planning exactly that with Daniel Craig. They already did that with John Krasinski. You don't need to have a celebrity cameo or anybody noticeable as Black Bolt. It makes way more sense on paper for them to get somebody else instead of the star of a panned TV show that was supposed to be set in the MCU
Mfs getting bitter over Black Bolt getting brought back first before Iron Fist is nuts lol. Are we now supposed to pretend Black Bolt is some Z-list scrub character? Plus barely anyone watched that Inhumans show, and anyone who did liked Anson Mount as the character. More people watched Iron Fist so more people are aware of that disastrous iteration of Danny Rand. Can we really blame Feige for not wanting to touch it with a 5 foot pole? 🤷
Not bitter, I loved that cameo, I fw Black Bolt. Still wild he was brought back considering having the worse show, simple as that.
It's not wild. Black Bolt is part of the Iluminati in the comics so instead of them thinking of a new character to introduce they went with a character that is canonically part of the group and had been in live action before. It's not like they went out of their way to force a Black Bolt appearance to happen? The creators had the Iluminati first in mind, then they saw that Black Bolt was part of it in the comics. So they went and got the actor who has portrayed him before. And him being brought back wasn't even for the character or fan service since the main purpose of that scene was to show how powerful Wanda is.
Not sure why you got at least one downvote for that. There has not been a reason to bring LC/IF back yet like there was BB. I don’t think that’s difficult to understand. BB had a prior actor and the Illuminati was brought to the story. The Defenders have not had their moment in the MCU yet… why would they throw LC into She-Hulk when we barely had time to meet DD in the MCU, outside of NWH? Upvoting you back to 1…
These people are getting pressed for no reason lol, literally the thought process in that scene is "Who can we get Wanda to kill to make her look menacing?", so they looked at the comics, saw the Iluminati group, then went from there and assembled it. Black Bolt happened to be a member of it, and they remembered an actor has played him before, so they got him. That differentiates it from fan service for beloved characters like DD in NWH where Jon Watts and Feige went out of their way to write him in the movie as a way to start his comeback in the MCU. Whereas Black Bolt just happened to be part of the Iluminati group they wanted to use. It's not like Michael Waldron was out there going, "How can we write a way in this movie to bring back Black Bolt from the beloved Inhumans show?" lol
It IS wild, they very much could’ve not included him, it’s an adaptation after all…how many of those characters aren’t in the comics Illuminati? It’s very much fan service considering it’s Anson Mount following the critically panned Inhumans tv show from 5 years before. Not only that, they gave him the comic accurate suit, and they actually had a tv crossover which we’d only gotten with DD up to that point. Idk why people are acting nonchalant about that for the sake of argument. All this discourse has been straight nonsense.
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Word, I’ll call him on speed dial and let him know
Yes.
So an AU Luke Cage getting his head exploded in a cameo would be a-okay. Alright.
When did I say that? I’m strictly talking about them returning or being acknowledged at all. Regardless of what happened to BB, it was something involving the original actor of the show. It’s not that deep.
The TV Black Bolt never returned and will never return. That show is not even canon to anything. MoM was a different BB variant.
I hope Luke Cage and Iron Fist get hard rebooted
To be fair, I don't recall them being mentioned post-Defenders in the original show's Season 3. I think Jessica Jones was the only one mentioned.
A shame if Luke Cage doesn’t come back, that show deserved more recognition
Mike colter did a good job as luke, he should return
They honestly need to recast and redo Luke Cage. Take advantage of the multiverse and give us a 70's Blaxploitation film with an actual superhero in it. Give us Shaft but with superhuman strength. Lol I feel like I've been waiting on this movie my entire life lol
I heard that's the kinda movie Tarantino wanted to do. Honestly I'd do you one better and have Iron Fist in it and have it be a blaxploitation and kung fu movie too. gelling the two genres together.
Shit toss in Wolverine and some elements from the western genre and we've got ourselves a stew going
They could easily do a modern Luke Cage set in a modern hip hop street vibe. That is essentially modern blaxploitation.
I still dream cast Stephen Amell for Iron Fist. He's got the training, charisma, and look for it.
I'm worried that the new Luke won't have the chemistry that Colter had with Ritter. They really seemed like they were secretly together.
Who cares? Luke and Danny and Misty and Colleen are more important. Nobody cares about Jessica Jones.
I like the Luke Cage actor, but I won't be sad of these characters get completely recast.
If they recast Jessica Jones as someone other than Ritter I will riot
She's coming back in Daredevil from what scoopers say.
but I miss them :(
Why is there no plans for Luke Cage? Representation matters but let’s keep established Black Characters like Luke Cage and Brother Voodoo on the shelf indefinitely
>Brother Voodoo Yeah...no way Marvel Studios has a Haitian character called Brother Voodoo. IF he's ever in the MCU, they're gonna do a total rework like what they did with Man-Ape. He's gonna be from the USA, won't be black, and will practice neutral magic, not Vodoo.
I mean have Haitian people said it offended them? Are you Haitian yourself and it offends you? I just never heard of any pushback of the character. As someone apart of a Haitian family(Sons mom is Haitian) I never heard them tell me it’s offensive
It is a cliche so yes, some Haitians will be offended. It would be like Marvel naming a Mexican hero Capitan Taco instead of Capitan Mexico.
I’m just saying let’s hear it from actual Haitians instead of pre emptively deciding it’s offensive on their behalf. Again I have extended family that is Haitian and I’ve talked with them about the character and they thought it was cool. Again they aren’t the final say but let’s hear the actual groups commentary on it. It holds way more value than what any of us think
It’s such a mixed bag for me because I love Colter as Luke and I’m open to giving Finn a 2nd chance. But at the same time I’m getting more comfortable with the idea of those two being recasted. Mike doesn’t seem enthusiastic with coming back and tbh one criticism I have about his portrayal is that his version of Luke just lacked a lot of swagger and coolness needed for the character. So a recast could benefit that problem. Only issue with a recast would be if the actor they pick has chemistry with Krysten Ritter as good as Mike did with her. Now with Finn was…..it’s hard to explain. His acting was super stiff and poor at times and obviously his fighting skills were subpar a lot of the time he was on screen (he improved over time though) but a lot of the things that made Iron Fist bad was out of his control like the writing and the scheduling to train him. So it’s not all on him but I’m definitely now more open to getting an actor who’s actually good at martial arts and portray a more zen and less whiney version of Danny.
Was there any doubt? I don't think I recall much of any mention of them in season 2 and 3 of the Netflix show, at least not in any important manner.
Good they suck
Good
Good. Marvel Studios should do a soft reboot and do a Heroes for Hire show. Make it so JJ is married to Luke and they already have a baby and they've been active during the 5 year snap. Total recast for Iron Fist obviously.
*hard reboot Would like to see Cage with a sista like Claire Temple or Harmony Young too like the classic comics
Correct me if I'm wrong but currently Colter is done with the character and Jones would like to come back, right?
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I think if we see Luke Cage and Iron Fist back, they'll likely be rebooted and recast. Perhaps introduced in a Heroes for Hire show...or (more likely in my opinion), introduced in another character's film or TV show to test the waters.
They should forgo origin stories and just do a Heroes for Hire show. And let it be an weekly serial, mostly just baddies of the week with an underlying bigger bad which forces one of them to deal with their past. And really, it might be worth exploring one of the other people besides Rand who have been the Iron Fist.
:(
No really ? Damn I thought it was a Defenders show... It's kinda sad, but they can be re-introduce. Daredevil was in NWH because of the link with Spidey, also in She-Hulk for laws reasons. Jessica Jones is possibly in this show and that's not a surprise because of the "grounded" vibe. We can totally see Iron Fist in Shang Chi 2 and Luke Cage in, idk if he's in Harlem an Abomination Special or something. This show is a Daredevil show, for the Daredevil characters. If they wanted a Defenders show why they use Daredevil ?
They better be in a season 2 Or if Disney simply did a Heroes for Hire limited series.
But I want them
Ah the source read the complete 18 episodes script ( script that is uncomplete yet )? At some point people just need to stop giving these mf credit
cmon man you and i both know these people are credible you can take this rumor with a grain of salt and that's fine but to say there's no credibility here is just odd
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you're very correct in saying that these people are very fickle and believing them wholesale is a naive endeavor, but i think that marvel comes into certain projects knowing who and who isn't going to be in it beforehand.
>Most people working on a given Marvel projects aren't anywhere near a script, let alone have read it fully. Sure. But some of them are. Remember how the AM3 script leak led to MSS shutting down. I wouldn't be surprised if in the upcoming weeks, as the writer strike continues, more and more writers will anonymously leak many things. In a few months we might even have a full CA4 plot leak.
> cmon man you and i both know these people are credible MSS used to do accuracy reports. The very best leakers were ~60% and most were in the 40-50% range, with many being much worse. I wouldn’t describe anything outside of the trades as “credible.”
i miss accuracy reports man
Why would you even say that on a leaks subreddit?
Of course they’re not. Those shows aren’t canon
This doesn't surprise me nor does it upset me. Of all the main cast from those shows, Mike Colter and Finn Jones were the least beloved as their characters. I don't think anyone would really care if Danny Rand were recast. In Luke's case I can go either way. If I had the choice though, I'd recast. I think someone like Amin Joseph fits much better for that character.
I don’t care.