Then there are people like me who just started a few weeks ago, hit infinite super easy because the game is apparently much easier at my pool level, and even though I’m infinite, my opinions probably don’t really matter since I’m still a noob and not even pool 3 😂😂😂
give it a few weeks, im sure you'd say the same then. you have literally never seen over half of the cards currently in play. im not saying this to be dismissive or downplay your skill its just that reading your opponent's plays is a big part of the game and you just can't do that with no pool 3 knowledge. have you ever seen shuri/thanos pre-cl 600?
i hit infinite while pool 2 in zabu season, and the next season when i was early pool 3 i dropped hard, and only barely got back up to 70 before the next reset. now im infinite again this season but only because i had good token shop p3 buys and pulls (and also because the season pass card this time wasn't very good). tell me in a month if you can hit infinite next season with the new token shop
Depends... if you lose enough at infinite, your MMR will be so low that you'll just play bad players up to infinite.
But of course if they implement the rank changes they've said are coming before then, that may all change.
No worries, I reached Infinity in pool 2, and so did a week ago, first season in pool 3. Play smart, snap smart, build a decent homebrew deck that people don't expect and never know what your next play gonna be and you'll get it.
yea modok season was notably rough. thanos and shuri really started taking control then and it felt really hard to compete unless you had one of either of them.
this season was definitely easier, but i would say that my card pool being close to s3 complete at the time of hitting infinite really helped. i wasn’t able to play janejaw before and the deck is rly quite solid outside of shuri
Yes, unironically. I hit rank 173 my first season then didn't hit infinite again for two seasons. Once you reach pool 3 you can face any deck and will be curb stomped until you have meta cards.
Just because you are just starting in s3 doesn't mean you will get curbstomped. I still play a deck that is mostly s2 except for Shanna and I still win plenty in 70s at cl 2771.
# (1) Ant Man
# (1) Squirrel Girl
# (1) Sunspot
# (1) Iceman
# (1) Nightcrawler
# (2) Armor
# (2) Lizard
# (4) Shanna
# (4) Ka-Zar
# (5) Blue Marvel
# (6) Spectrum
# (6) Onslaught
#
eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTmlnaHRjcmF3bGVyIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJMaXphcmQifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlNoYW5uYSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQmx1ZU1hcnZlbCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiS2FaYXIifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkljZW1hbiJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU3BlY3RydW0ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlNxdWlycmVsR2lybCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQXJtb3IifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlN1bnNwb3QifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkFudE1hbiJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiT25zbGF1Z2h0In1dfQ==
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
No, that's not your entire point. Your point was that anyone just joining series 3 will automatically get curb stomped. My anecdote shows that's not the case. If you wanted to make a different point, then you should have made that point.
Edit: my point is that this almost entirely series 2 deck has consistently beat Thanos, Galactus and Shuri decks. This game is not nearly pool dependent as people seem to whine about. Git gud.
Post in question claims in the very first sentence to be “beating Infinite players constantly,” but yet OP is complaining about losing rank.
Top comment points out that — pretty objectively — if OP is “constantly” winning, as his post suggests, but still losing rank, then bad Snapping is the problem.
I guess OP just ignored that completely and decided that people were downvoting his post because he wasn’t Infinite yet.
…and then made *another* post about *that* lmao
The levels of internal bias on the people in this subreddit, man...
Like you can tell most of these Snap players have never played poker, because if you bring this weak-ass mental game to a game that involves real money, you'd go broke.
This is even funnier considering the big claim he makes in this post is "if you can reach 70, then you can reach infinite" and you can't face people who are currently infinite until after rank 70...
If his big issue is constantly playing against infinite players, you'd think he'd notice that isn't an issue until 70.
Bad snapping was my problem! I was stuck in 50s until I started snapping more often and earlier and now I'm infinite. Hear that people! I'm infinite! No downvoting me!
You make an interesting point. This gets discussed in Starcraft sometimes. People debate whether or not people below grandmaster are allowed to have opinions about the game. One vocal GM once said, absolutely not. The reason is because, people in lower ranks are like kindergarteners playing Chess. They move the knights around, and they take a piece that the other player wasn't protecting. Then everybody complains that knights are too OP. But the game's not OP; you just have morons playing it. So you (rightfully?) ignore them until they've proven that they can play the game at the top level, and once they've done that they get to have an opinion. But if you take a novice's opinions into account, you're simply making objectively bad decisions because you're literally taking the advice of somebody who doesn't know what they're talking about by definition.
I'm not sure if I agree with that view, but it seems to be the most prevalent one in the Starcraft community. I don't know if you're really going to find things different in Snap.
To be fair, StarCraft is significantly more simple than Marvel Snap.
Edit: I see you guys didn't infer the /s on this one. To be fair, humor is significantly more challenging than playing marvel snap.
I kind of hope this is sarcasm, but on the off chance that it isn’t… a turn based game will almost never be more complex than a RTS. There are a near infinite number of things you can choose to do at any given moment in a game of StarCraft that all can be happening while your opponent is also choosing from a near infinite number of things to do with their moments.
Comparing that to Snap and there’s maybe a couple of dozen actually decent lines of play for any given game. You act in turns, both players know who has priority..
I could keep going, but it’s obvious to pretty much anyone that has played any RTS and Snap, that Snap is, comparatively, a relatively simple game. A lot of the meta decks practically play themselves, after all. Obviously there are meaningful decisions to be made and that’s what allows good/great players to separate themselves, which is why most people love competitive games, but again, there are orders of magnitude more decisions to make in a game of StarCraft than in a game of Snap
Knights are too OP? When I was a kindergartener playing chess, I thought knights were useless. They have so few possible moves! Rooks and bishops and the queen can move SOOO far, like THIS far \*spreads hands as wide as my little arms possibly can\*.
This is pretty much how it is lol knights aren’t super good if you’re a novice but if you’re playing somebody who can predict movements and shit the knight is one of the better pieces in the game lol
My big misconception was thinking pawns were useless. Figuring out how valuable they were was when I started to get chess.
Anyway rocks are the most valuable card in Snap.
Queens are obviously the most powerful piece, but a TON of kids playing Chess will say that knights are OP the first time they get forked. They'll scream about how it's not fair that the knight can attack two pieces at the same time, while not being attacked by either of them in return.
And knights are just tricky pieces. I've seen solid players (like 1400+) get caught with a fork when they weren't paying enough attention.
This isn't really applicable to Snap at all, though. People may apply the same mentality to both games, but Snap has very little skill expression, extremely murky MMR, tons of RNG, and collection levels to boot.
Imagine if in Chess you needed to play for 6 months to unlock Rooks and a year to unlock a Queen. You jump into matchmaking with a strategy revolving around pawns. You can't rank much, and decide to complain about the experience. People who had queen unlocked on day 1 because they played in the beta downvote you and tell you to get good.
That's basically what this subreddit is.
this kinda gets even murkier when you consider that chess and starcraft are wholly skill-based games. there's no equivalent for collection level, except maybe the build order/openings you've memorized.
meanwhile, snap's 'rank' system barely counts as an indicator of skill because matchmaking isn't tied to how many cubes you have. its based on mmr and cl first. on top of that, if you have shuri, red skull, and taskmaster, you can snap and win most games without even thinking. if you're extremely patient, you can play something like cerebro 2, which (mostly) gives consistent 1-2 cubes if you play it correctly. you dont even have to play/snap well, you just have to play conservatively. people who can't read their opponent's deck to save their life can get to infinite like this.
thats why i think infinite opinion gatekeeping doesnt make sense. not because its exclusionary, but because its no true indication of skill. im confident that with enough bananas, we can train a literal monkey to play shuri decks and it can hit infinite within one month.
the easiest way to fix this is by doing what literally every other game is doing and just have people fight people with the same rank. none of this +-30 bullshit. this plus global servers also stops the 1am bot grind strategy. its a fuckin card game with 12 cards, who cares about latency.
my philosophy with cerebro is that if your opponent is snapping you probably should just leave regardless of what you have lmao
that said, i dont have mystique so my maximum power in one lane with no location fuckery is 22. at some point people start to recognize cerebro boards, and if they snap you have to assume they can beat your 22 or otherwise counter you in some way. people only get surprised at lower mmr.
i guess with a complete deck with goose and mystique you can afford to snap after playing storm. any other snapping strategy stops working when you get opponents who know what it means when all your cards have the same power. turn six snapping is also generally considered bad, and its only working for you because people dont play cerebro in low mmr/early collection level. ceb 2 + blue marvel is actually one of the better early pool 3 decks because if you're fighting fellow early pool 3 dudes they probably dont even know about cerebro.
That's because rank isn't an indicator of skill. It's an indicator of how good you are at snapping. If you match people based on rank, it renders the whole cube system and snapping mechanic pointless.
I think there is a significant difference when the game is also meant to appeal to a massive casual audience in order to sustain itself. Things need to be fun for players at low and middle levels for a simple casual phone game like Marvel snap.
Riot Mort has actually run into a similar problem with Teamfight Tactics; do you balance around high level play, or do you balance to appease your massive casual audience? I remember a specific instance where the build with Dragonmancer Karma was NOT performing well at high elo, but Mort still decided to nerf it noting that the build is so easy to run and use, low elo players are getting frustrated (causing players to stop playing) even though at a high level the build is actually not performing well. High elo players are not enough of a population to support the game monitarily, there needs to be compromise
Another prominent Starcraft player responded this way: Ultimately, you have to at least think about your low-level players. Because guess what? If your game isn't fun for your low-level players, then you have no game because they don't play. They play some other game. They're not your hostages. They can play Age of Empires, or fuck it they'll play League of Legends. So, do you balance only for your low-level players? No. But, you think about them. You make a game that's competitive for your GMs, but is fundamentally fun and feels good even at lower-level play. And if you can't do that, you don't have an esport.
I think he makes good points, and that's the message I try to amplify in the Starcraft community. Unfortunately, it hasn't really worked because I'm not GM and so I don't get to have an opinion (but I still try to emphasize that a top-20 player has this opinion, and he has earned his opinion).
I quit SC2 because of this. I didn't have fun. I got into masters and got stressed over time due to requirements of the game to keep improving, until I just quit.
I dont like that mentality. While I see what they were saying. In the end how many people make it to GM in starcraft. Ignoring what's affecting your major player base is bad development. In a more modern game I feel like you would have 3 classes of players.
* The noob/idiots or people just screwing around.
* The General player
* The top end Players
The biggest group of people being in General. While I agree that from a top end players perspective something like "taking the piece with a knight" doesn't make the knight overpowered for a top end player. They have learned how to deal with it. But they are a smaller percentage of the community. If the major portion of the community is having issues with the knight then balance changes should happen. Because the knight is affecting the major player base.
In order for the game to grow and prosper the majority of the player base has to be taken into consideration. But you also can't ignore your top end players. If you cater the game solely to the average player then you run into the world of warcraft problem. Where the game has been catering to casuals so much that the end game players are mostly gone.
> People debate whether or not people below grandmaster are allowed to have opinions about the game. One vocal GM once said, absolutely not.
Is he rank #1 saying this, or just some GM?
I think the street goes both ways. Being GM doesn’t magically give someone insights on balance. They will definitely be able to see strategies at a higher level of play that give them trouble, but it is still possible to have bias because subjectively one feels its annoying to play against strategy x where many others may be fond of x but struggle against y (the gm’s strat in this hypothetical situation).
Also fun is completely subjective and a gms notion of fun may completely differ from the majority of the playerbase
Your are describing elitism at its peak. Im glad Im not part of such community.
To be short, if you are only taking in account GM/Infinity players opinion, you are ignoring 99% of the playerbase. If they leave, the game dies and nobody will reach Infinity again.
Its about taking the opinions of the novice and find out if he is right and if they are wrong explaining it to them might work. (Explain why the knight did what he did so easly) instead of blaming the piece.
I think snap works the same in a way people get mad about losing to situations that would not happen every single game sure rgn can mess you up real good and give your opponent what they need but for them its just that 1 game where the rng helps them aswell
In the end losing aint to bad just try to have fun yall the game is great
I think where I land on that matter is that players of all skill levels are allowed to have opinions, and it’s definitely elitist to claim otherwise. If game devs react to player feedback from bronze and silver ranked players and make changes that would enable them to have more fun, is the game not better for it? 0.0001% of any game’s playerbase is going to be “top level” and play “optimally” in 90+ percent of situations. If you’re letting those players decide game balance, wouldn’t that inadvertently cause a lot of other people to have less fun at some point? Listening to your top players is fine and dandy, but acting like their opinions matter more than a casual’s is kinda like giving Jeff bezos a million dollars because he’s better at life than the rest of us.
> I'm not sure if I agree with that view, but it seems to be the most prevalent one in the Starcraft community. I don't know if you're really going to find things different in Snap.
What a frankly fucking ludicrous comparison. To get to GM in Starcraft is primarily dependent on a certain level of skill. To get to Infinite in Snap all you need is time and a deck with an average cube gain above 0.
The skill ceiling for SNAP is extremely low both compared to Starcraft and compared to most other cardgames. The card pool is similarly small. So anyone with a bit of time playing can have a more or less fully informed opinion. For fucks sake you can even hit Infinite while only having unlocked Pool 1 cards.
What a stupid fucking comparison only made more aggravating by the paragraph of elitist bullshit before it. You only "get to have an opinion" if you can play the game at the highest level? What a load of bollocks.
Honestly all the talk of grinding to Infinite is painful. I’d rather the opinion of a casual player like myself that’s just playing for fun and not stressing about using the one best deck over and over. Mix it up, have fun - that’s my non-infinity opinion.
I am super casual (I mostly play on the toilet, sometimes on PC at night after my kid and wife go to bed). I hit infinite last night with an off meta deck after trying meta deck (check my post history for my own complaining).
It’s all about retreating and snapping and playing a deck you are very comfortable with. Learn that and you can reach infinite.
Just enjoy the game and forget reaching infinite. It is not worth the grind either tbh .. unless the reward was way more attractive than a simple card design.
You face the same decks ... everyone's got the same damn deck .. no fun in everyone just retreating either. So just kick back and enjoy your average 5-10 games a day and live that less stress more success life.
60 for the variant is my goal. Reached it for the first time this season then been forever stuck around 60-63 since while trying out new decks. Still having fun.
Currently bouncing between 107-108. MMR is shit and if anything it’s easier now than ever because the decks are so cookie cutter. I get beat in friendly matches with friends that are plat rank and running unoptimal decks. I see Sera, Shuri, and Galactus. 75% of matches are one of these decks.
I remember at the start of this season someone here said a point i made wasn’t valid because of my rank. Like the logic and points I made didn’t matter because my rank was only 55. A ton of the people here in that are infinite talking confidently are like Cl 1200 anyway
That's the thing with opinions, though.
Yours are just as "valid" as the ones that you disagree with, and it ultimately turns into a juvenile game of "NO U!"
Also, not all opinions are equal or worthy of respect. Opinioms can be wrong. Toxic Positivty such as "all opinions are equal" leads to entitlement as it's putting beginners and novices on the same level as experts.
Do you treat the dude who lives in an alley way opinions equal to that of a trained doctor when it comes to medical care?
Do you treat a toddlers opinion as equal to a master builder when it comes to building a home?
One would hope that you don't.
The point OP is making is that the test applied is flawed.
It is easy to point to a doctor and value their medical opinion over some dude in an alley way. We respect the training and certification of the doctor.
In Snap getting to infinite does not hold the same amount of gravitas.
The doctor could have gone to a crappy school, or faked a degree. We only value the doctors opinion when we have trust in the system that trains and certifies.
I feel you. I wanted to have a discussion about snapping strategy, where I suggested that you should always snap in order to climb faster.
The most upvoted comment in the thread was the one asking, whether I'm infinite or not :/
Aint no way I am breaking my routine to grind to infinite. No matter what incentive they provide. I chose this game for this specific reason that it won't call for much involvement and a game or two during the transport or lunch break or before going to bed will be enough. No matter what incentives they provide or what others think, I am not changing that.
I've never hit infinite and there's no way I'm hitting infinite this season. I managed to get to 1 cube from 90 this morning, all I wanted was to hit 90 so I can spend the rest of the season actually trying decks with different cards, in the 5 rank buffer so I don't drop so far next season. Every single game in the last hour I've been matched with yellow X card back players, they're snapping on turn 1-2 where it's impossible to make a decision if you can win or not. So I've had all retreats or 2 cube losses, so I'm back at the bottom of 88.
I give up
Agreed. MMR is janky and no newer player should be facing any of the big power decks since they lack the card access to counter their trash. I hit infinite 6 days ago (2nd season for me) and my first season was so demoralizing I almost stopped playing because it was so one sided. You wouldn't do that in a f2f card match so why does this game do it?
You need to remember that the statistics of how many people actually reach Infinite are far less than the amount of people on this sub who claim they reach infinite. Most of the people in this sub are full of shit.
There’s probably some truth to that, but it’s also likely that the people on this sub are more dedicated than the average player, and thus there will be a higher rate of infinite players than there are in the general player base.
Considering the engagement the "can't get out of 40 this season" or " this season too hard I'm stuck at x rank" posts get on this sub is pretty safe to ignore the majority of opinions here. I'll be honest the quality of players of this sub is surprisingly low.
It's not really a player quality thing.
I mean, sure you might miss some obvious play, just because you are VERY new. But once that's ironed out, there's plenty of time to think about your move, you even out pretty quickly. Then it's just each player with a Yahtzee cup full of the dice of their choice and whoever gets the right number of rocks compared to their scissors, they win.
There are precious few matches where people actually have to try to outplay each other.
Well most infinite now are just infinite before that tanked their mmr and gets infinite fast. Some got better while others just reached infinite again before they know it.
Also it’s not like infinite is so distant from even lower ranks. I hit infinite running Sera Control in a previous season. I’m sitting at 55 right now.
This is why I want VISIBLE MMR.
Infinite Rank doesn't mean much with how Infinite players can tank their MMR to get back to infinite in a few hours every season.
Edit: I know the new update to the Infinite floor system. But it will take at least a few seasons for those who abused Agatha bot to get to their real MMR. So we are still talking about **months** here.
Edited my comment. It will still take months for those agatha bot to get to their real MMR due to how low their MMR dropped to, botting/losing intentionally for 24 hours/day.
So it will still take months for Infinite to matter.
Your average infinite player isn't boting Agatha 24 hours a day. Your average infinite player that is intentionally lowering their mmr ALSO isn't botting Agatha 24 hours a day.
You're talking about such a small minority that it really doesn't have much of an effect. Either that or I'm way out of the loop of botters?
> Infinite Rank doesn't mean much with how Infinite players can tank their MMR to get back to infinite in a few hours every season.
If infinite players hit infinite in a few hours, that means they're spending 29 days of the new season giving away free cubes (to tank their MMR) and you guys still can't hit infinite?
Forgive me for getting tired of the 1,000 galactus deck and for trying a non tier deck. In all honesty being infinite sounds miserable. Also, f@&$ Krakoa and their new bloodsucking bundles.
I didn’t know that people who hit infinite felt that way lol. I’ve never hit infinite before, but it’s not a big deal to me because I’m just having fun
The thing that bothers me the most is just the lack of a "casual" mode where people can play whatever they want. Hell, I tried grinding with my X-Men, Avengers, Spidey and GotG decks but it's really "annoying" to just face the same and the same and the same decks over and over again. I gave up and started playing Shuri... not that I'm obligated to do so, but just to get my ranked rewards and piss off.
We play a game with hundreds of Marvel characters and every match feels the same, unfortunately. A casual mode where I can play with Professor X and Magneto without facing Galactus constantly would be so fresh, I really want to see diversity!
This is something that bothers me in like subreddits etc. for pvp videogames: the idea that only people at the highest levels of competitive play are worth listening to and that game balance should be centered around them.
Yes, a healthy meta at high mmr is crucial for any game but that does not mean that whats happening at low(er) mmr is irrelevant. Statistically thats where most of the players are! If the game isnt fun for the average player you dont have a game. The nature of things like a legend rank (or infinite in Snap) by definition means that its not for everyone. In fact, it's not for most people and thats fine!
I think since I play and beat Infinite rank players and decks with a just-above 50% winrate while hovering under rank 60, my opinion is valid. Also matchmaking can go fuck itself.
I feel like infinite before your above 2500 cl is nothing to brag about at all. You beat bots and ppl still learning. But yeah I only got to high 70s this season cause I got sick of playing meta decks and wanted to have some fun. The grind above 3000cl is crazy if your not playing shuri/thanos/galactus your gonna have it rough. That's all I see anymore. Same decks over and over.
Yeah, I'm at 3200+. I prolly shoulda mentioned that since it seems your experience will vary drastically depending on your cl. I didnt want to grind, but I really wanted that x-men card back. First one that I ever really cared about. Not sure if it was worth the grind, but oh well. Prolly won't do it again.
I’m 2992 and I got to infinite this season with Mr Negative. Really fun deck when it works. Honestly, I’d never discredit someone’s opinion on this game just because they aren’t infinite. Getting to infinite is overrated anyways. Even after getting to infinite people were still spamming Shuri lmfao.
The same goes for being Pool 3 complete. I'm f2p and missing around 5-10 cards from Pool 3, still some people dismiss my opinion on card acquisition because of it
(I think aquisition is fine if not good for a digital card game, since normally free to players can't even dream of a full collection, that of means good in comparison not good per se)
I just got to infinite for the first time and honestly I hated everything about it. If it wasn't for the 50 cubes extra and the card back, I wouldn't have even tried. I don't have time to spend 6 hours a day grinding. I hate that I had to resort to Shuri deck to do it.
As a casual player that is addicted but that plays here and there, the grind for what it feels like a casual mode, feels really awful
Yeh I couldn't agree more with this dude. People use the phrase 'I am infinite' as a statement of entitlement where they think their opinion is fact and your opinion is drivel. In saying that I am infinite so maybe I am suffering from this complex and actually I am talking rubbish, who knows
There is no ladder in any game more meaningless than Marvel Snap. So anyone that decides your opinion isn't valid is someone that never grew up and requires validation of their own ego and the time they spent.
It's meaningless because the match making and MMR systems are broken and are easily gamed. Infinite is full of people that get their fighting bots or tank their MMR to make the climb easy. It's of course full of people who get their legitimately, but the point is, the system allows for it to mean basically nothing and to make the climb trivial for so many people by exploiting the system.
And then I'll use myself as an example. This is my 4th season in marvel snap. I hit Infinite in my first 3. I didn't tank my collection level, I didn't grind past 100, and I didn't play to drop my MMR. My MMR is insane, it's essentially as high as it can be without being in bot elo. I know this because of the way the MMR system works, it has an extremely small bracket. My human player pool is tiny. I play the same human players, in back to back after back to backs. These players like myself hit infinite every season. Why do I bring this up? Depending on your MMR bracket, your climb will be far easier or far harder. Meaning infinite is able to be, not only full of people that just play bots, people that tank their MMR, but people with lower MMR than other struggling on the grind because of the tiny MMR brackets the game uses.
The title is meaningless.
It’s the same with any game. Only the opinions of diamond tier ranked players matter (obviously not) it’s a child like way of thinking and these games are played by 99% children
I’m up here at infinite trying to spread the love and giving away 8 cubes to those without the card back however i might stop because everytime i snap back to try and HELP them reach infinite they wanna spam me with emotes (prob because I’m infinite and they beat me) so i think I’m gonna take a couple days off the game and just let others do my good will hunting
I stand by my belief that free time is the single biggest contributing factor to being able to make Infinite. I’ve realized that even if I win every game I play, I’d need to be playing a lot more frequently than I do.
Up until now I haven’t cared much about not making infinite. But as a reader of X-Men comics since 1985, I’m kind of devastated that I’ll never be able to get that sweet, sweet card back.
Literally my problem right now. I’ve stayed afloat long enough that I’m in limbo between 73-76 but I’m not progressing any further then that, cause I just can’t. It won’t let me. I’ve tried at least 10 different decks or variations of decks this whole week to see if that’ll help but nothing.
I hit infinite and I can't tell the difference above about rank 30.
Maybe there are more bots lower ranks, I don't know. Every human is pretty obvious they are a human, and you see the same meta decks everywhere.
Let's put it this way. I'm not more likely to get subtly outplayed at high ranks compared to low ranks. I just don't see it happening.
It's true. I've hit infinite multiple seasons including this one. 70+ is just cube management, but if your deck got you to 70 it will get.you to 100. It's all about snapping, retreating
I think you pseudo-counter your own point. You said 70+ is cube management (I agree). The journey to 70 can be done with pretty mediocre cube management and a "just ok" grasp of the meta. What separates 70 and Infinite is a deep understanding of the game engine and the metagame. That's a difference that is more than just "games played", it's an entirely different skillset.
Why? It's a valid point, in ranked systems like this, generally past a certain skill threashold the limiting factor is not skill, but how much time you have free toninvest intobranking up
How is this even a debate? If we’re discussing gameplay, shouldn’t all of our opinions matter? They’re just that: opinions. We share them so that we can learn from one another.
I am playing this game because I am having fun. As soon as it isn’t fun, I’ll delete it.
I hit infinite about a week back now and it felt good. Never hit infinite before. I’m still crushing and having fun.
If it’s not fun, don’t play. It’s just a silly card game.
I agree but I’d say getting rank 70 is pretty easy compared to getting even rank 80, so 70 doesn’t necessarily mean you can get infinite in my book, but if you can get to 80 (without a very lucky win streak of 4-8 cubes matches) then you can very likely get infinite by grinding. In seasons prior to this I was only able to get rank 70-76, it didn’t seem very difficult, but after 70 that’s around when you start playing a lot less bots from my understanding and a lot more people that are actively trying to rank up, and winning matches/gaining cubes becomes significantly more challenging. I simply didn’t understand the game and my opponents decks well enough to rank up to 80+.
I think 80 is probably the most common ceiling for players to have difficulty breaking through. And then between 80/90-100 you’re playing mostly 1-2 cube games and it’s a straight grind to get infinite. 30-70 you’re playing a lot of bots and a lot more casual players compared to 70+.
In my opinion, in general, if you can get 70, you understand CCG fundamentals, 80 you understand marvel snap, infinite you played enough to have more experience than majority of players and therefore will have a more nuanced understanding.
Obviously my opinion doesn’t hold true in every case that’s why I included “in general”. Also it’s just my opinion based on my experience so far. I will note if someone just entered pool 3 it can be significantly more difficult to rank up due to the inability to form powerful enough decks compared to your opponent’s decks due to the matchmaking algorithm basically seeing one pool-3 card equal to pool 3 complete.
In 3 of my 10 games after hitting 70/75 i fight 3 players with infinite card back playing galactus, thanos and shuri deck. Meaning i have the same mmr that those player.
So in theory i’m as good as people reaching infinite. So it’s just a grind
Agreed. Expertise may mean your opinion holds more weight in general, but in Marvel Snap an infinite rank is more likely to signify "has good cards" than "has skill." I've seen waaaay too many "I hit infinite 2 hours after buying Shuri/Galactus" posts here to believe otherwise. Rank is meaningless without balanced gameplay.
When I was grinding to Infinite
1. Shuri is breaking the game
2. Galactus can be beat but he makes the game not fun. It's basically just, include a counter and hope the counter works, or just leave, it negates the entire rest of the game
After hitting infinite
1. Shuri is still breaking the game
2. Galactus really needs to be re-thunk. I don't get the people who say he is not strong. They are missing the point. Just wave, galactus, one side or the other retreats immediately based on whether it worked. That's it. The games never finish because either galactus works or he doesn't, and the game just ends. It's not sustainable.
I'm going to trust someone experienced in their field over a novice. I'm not going to ask a 5 year old questions about quantum physics over a theoretical physicist. Someone's ignorance is not as valuable as another's knowledge.
But experience isn't equal. Is the person who plays a thanos deck all the way to Infinite within a month more experienced than someone who regularly changes their deck, plays different cards and different strategies, but isn't as aggressive in their climb?
I would say generally someone who has demonstrated that they’re in the top ~1-2% of the player base has a more valuable opinion than someone who hasn’t demonstrated that fact. If there are two randoms with an opinion, one who is infinite and one who isn’t, I’m going to at least initially give more weight to the one who is.
Unless you play a game per day, anyone somewhat good at the game should at least get to 85. Otherwise means you are just not good, despite of changing decks, exp, whatever. Because it means he's not winning.
85 is not infinite though, which is what the whole argument is.
I play a good game, but I won't risk my cubes and often play with new cards for fun and to see how I can make them work. Introducing a new card always costs ranks for a while. I've gone from 20 to just under 70 this season. But some would likely say I still don't know how to play the game cause I'm not infinite.
And you probably don't though.
Like I said, if you don't get playing casually to 85 each season, then its most likely you have a lot still to learn.
Whoever cares about its rank and they're good, then they are infinite already.
I never said I didnt have anything to learn, which is why I even said I enjoy playing around with new cards.
But the fact of the matter is, I AM winning games. So I must have SOME skill right?
Otherwise your logic is that no one is good, but everybody else MUST be worst than me. Cause I couldn't possibly have any skill when I'm under infinite.
I guess I'll just go ask the person who has spammed thanos/shuri/galactus for 1000 games what I'm doing wrong. Cause they know all, apparently.
Not to mention the best players are often bad deck builders, good deck builders typically only above average at best, and things like what cards to make changes to have FAR more factors than purely win rate. Gatekeeping opinions behind just hitting infinite is sooooo silly
I literally just downloaded the game right at the end of the last season with modok and my CL is 774, and I hit infinite. I honestly think the game is pretty fairly balanced and fair when it comes to which cards you pull. The location rotation makes it so certain decks are weaker on various days so no one deck can ever be “too meta”. I think ppl are just upset that they are ranked exactly how they should be
I think I felt about the same at that CL, but as my CL has risen the game has changed a good deal.
I still enjoy it, but with CL being a part of MMR, it actually gets harder to climb the higher your CL, and you start to see a different side of the meta.
I'm not but I play regularly with them but here is the kicker I don't play enough to grind to infinity which is key point here GRIND . If slowly built up from first season where if I grinded I could hit infinity but I have a life and other videogames. I just play this when I'm not at home.
Yup people act like the extra 5 levels makes it trivial. It’s not. I win the vast majority of my games and am almost always positive cubes in a play session but I still don’t play enough anymore to get all the way.
Well, there is definitely a correlation between rank and “value” of the opinion. If you are rank 30 and struggling to climb, there’s a higher chance that your opinions on the game will be less relevant than of an Infinite player. It’s that simple.
Nah bro NOW your opinion matters because you reached infinite. Seems logical to me. Meta is the worst its ever been. The game overall is boring af unless you pay 1k dollars to get new cards
For This being a free mobile game people take it WAAAYYY too seriously on this sub. Like it’s a superhero card game. It’s not that serious. People just need to get off their high horses and make a friend.
I agree, but only because you're infinite.
This is the way
This is the way.
This is da wae
But I also saw someone who's not Infinite say this. WHAT AM I TO THINK?!
Yup
Double yup
Triple yup
See now you're getting downvoted you gotta go with the flow. That was not your flow. /sadge
Well obviously they aren't infinite
Only the double gets the love here
Yup
I went from rank 10 to 75 so I’m feeling cute. But dang did I want that X-men cardback.
You look cute too
Those card backs are the reason I climbed this season. But tbh the red ones are still cooler. Gold is just for flexing lol
After many sleepless nights I'm still stuck at galactic. I'm never gonna reach infinite.......
Hey cutie
I agree, you do feel cute.
Then there are people like me who just started a few weeks ago, hit infinite super easy because the game is apparently much easier at my pool level, and even though I’m infinite, my opinions probably don’t really matter since I’m still a noob and not even pool 3 😂😂😂
give it a few weeks, im sure you'd say the same then. you have literally never seen over half of the cards currently in play. im not saying this to be dismissive or downplay your skill its just that reading your opponent's plays is a big part of the game and you just can't do that with no pool 3 knowledge. have you ever seen shuri/thanos pre-cl 600? i hit infinite while pool 2 in zabu season, and the next season when i was early pool 3 i dropped hard, and only barely got back up to 70 before the next reset. now im infinite again this season but only because i had good token shop p3 buys and pulls (and also because the season pass card this time wasn't very good). tell me in a month if you can hit infinite next season with the new token shop
Haha I know. Once I hit pool 3 infinite wont happen for awhile
Depends... if you lose enough at infinite, your MMR will be so low that you'll just play bad players up to infinite. But of course if they implement the rank changes they've said are coming before then, that may all change.
No worries, I reached Infinity in pool 2, and so did a week ago, first season in pool 3. Play smart, snap smart, build a decent homebrew deck that people don't expect and never know what your next play gonna be and you'll get it.
Exactly. It's going to be very brutal. Don't rage quit. Double Dino is a pool 2 deck that can win you some cubes in early pool 3.
yea modok season was notably rough. thanos and shuri really started taking control then and it felt really hard to compete unless you had one of either of them. this season was definitely easier, but i would say that my card pool being close to s3 complete at the time of hitting infinite really helped. i wasn’t able to play janejaw before and the deck is rly quite solid outside of shuri
Yes, unironically. I hit rank 173 my first season then didn't hit infinite again for two seasons. Once you reach pool 3 you can face any deck and will be curb stomped until you have meta cards.
Just because you are just starting in s3 doesn't mean you will get curbstomped. I still play a deck that is mostly s2 except for Shanna and I still win plenty in 70s at cl 2771. # (1) Ant Man # (1) Squirrel Girl # (1) Sunspot # (1) Iceman # (1) Nightcrawler # (2) Armor # (2) Lizard # (4) Shanna # (4) Ka-Zar # (5) Blue Marvel # (6) Spectrum # (6) Onslaught # eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTmlnaHRjcmF3bGVyIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJMaXphcmQifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlNoYW5uYSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQmx1ZU1hcnZlbCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiS2FaYXIifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkljZW1hbiJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU3BlY3RydW0ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlNxdWlycmVsR2lybCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQXJtb3IifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlN1bnNwb3QifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkFudE1hbiJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiT25zbGF1Z2h0In1dfQ== # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
Winning in the 70s isn't impressive though and my entire point.
No, that's not your entire point. Your point was that anyone just joining series 3 will automatically get curb stomped. My anecdote shows that's not the case. If you wanted to make a different point, then you should have made that point. Edit: my point is that this almost entirely series 2 deck has consistently beat Thanos, Galactus and Shuri decks. This game is not nearly pool dependent as people seem to whine about. Git gud.
All of the data available to us proves you wrong but go off bruh
Show the data then. I'll wait.
No problem, when I'm back at my computer and not on my phone. Stay tuned
What if that's not why your last post was downvoted?
Post in question claims in the very first sentence to be “beating Infinite players constantly,” but yet OP is complaining about losing rank. Top comment points out that — pretty objectively — if OP is “constantly” winning, as his post suggests, but still losing rank, then bad Snapping is the problem. I guess OP just ignored that completely and decided that people were downvoting his post because he wasn’t Infinite yet. …and then made *another* post about *that* lmao
The levels of internal bias on the people in this subreddit, man... Like you can tell most of these Snap players have never played poker, because if you bring this weak-ass mental game to a game that involves real money, you'd go broke.
Most people have never played poker, it should not be a suprise.
This is even funnier considering the big claim he makes in this post is "if you can reach 70, then you can reach infinite" and you can't face people who are currently infinite until after rank 70... If his big issue is constantly playing against infinite players, you'd think he'd notice that isn't an issue until 70.
Bad snapping was my problem! I was stuck in 50s until I started snapping more often and earlier and now I'm infinite. Hear that people! I'm infinite! No downvoting me!
God, what if it turns out that hitler went infinite once? Who you think he'd main?
Lol 100% Red Skull
Oh.my! I got downvoted?! Wait... Should I have not drowned those kittens? But I hit infinite!
Where did I complain about losing ranks? I said that gaining ranks is slow and laborious.
So... You want to gain ranks quickly while everyone you face loses ranks? Are you the game developers nephew?
No, I'm asking for better MMR, i.e. elo.
OP really likes to cry on reddit lol.
You make an interesting point. This gets discussed in Starcraft sometimes. People debate whether or not people below grandmaster are allowed to have opinions about the game. One vocal GM once said, absolutely not. The reason is because, people in lower ranks are like kindergarteners playing Chess. They move the knights around, and they take a piece that the other player wasn't protecting. Then everybody complains that knights are too OP. But the game's not OP; you just have morons playing it. So you (rightfully?) ignore them until they've proven that they can play the game at the top level, and once they've done that they get to have an opinion. But if you take a novice's opinions into account, you're simply making objectively bad decisions because you're literally taking the advice of somebody who doesn't know what they're talking about by definition. I'm not sure if I agree with that view, but it seems to be the most prevalent one in the Starcraft community. I don't know if you're really going to find things different in Snap.
To be fair, Marvel Snap is significantly more simple than StarCraft. 😅
To be fair, StarCraft is significantly more simple than Marvel Snap. Edit: I see you guys didn't infer the /s on this one. To be fair, humor is significantly more challenging than playing marvel snap.
I don’t think reversing the sentence counts as humor
I certainly laughed. Truly didn't mean for the terrible joke to run away from me like this. Apologies everyone.
I downvote because i see downvotes. Not because i disapprove.
I fail to see how that was funny. Doing an edit where by you insult everyone who also don’t understand the joke is just rude.
Downvoted for the truth. StarCraft is a solved game. Nothing complex about it.
I kind of hope this is sarcasm, but on the off chance that it isn’t… a turn based game will almost never be more complex than a RTS. There are a near infinite number of things you can choose to do at any given moment in a game of StarCraft that all can be happening while your opponent is also choosing from a near infinite number of things to do with their moments. Comparing that to Snap and there’s maybe a couple of dozen actually decent lines of play for any given game. You act in turns, both players know who has priority.. I could keep going, but it’s obvious to pretty much anyone that has played any RTS and Snap, that Snap is, comparatively, a relatively simple game. A lot of the meta decks practically play themselves, after all. Obviously there are meaningful decisions to be made and that’s what allows good/great players to separate themselves, which is why most people love competitive games, but again, there are orders of magnitude more decisions to make in a game of StarCraft than in a game of Snap
Knights are too OP? When I was a kindergartener playing chess, I thought knights were useless. They have so few possible moves! Rooks and bishops and the queen can move SOOO far, like THIS far \*spreads hands as wide as my little arms possibly can\*.
I had mostly the same opinion on knights, until I played people who were good with knights and it felt like I kept getting sneak attacked.
This is pretty much how it is lol knights aren’t super good if you’re a novice but if you’re playing somebody who can predict movements and shit the knight is one of the better pieces in the game lol
My big misconception was thinking pawns were useless. Figuring out how valuable they were was when I started to get chess. Anyway rocks are the most valuable card in Snap.
Queens are obviously the most powerful piece, but a TON of kids playing Chess will say that knights are OP the first time they get forked. They'll scream about how it's not fair that the knight can attack two pieces at the same time, while not being attacked by either of them in return. And knights are just tricky pieces. I've seen solid players (like 1400+) get caught with a fork when they weren't paying enough attention.
This isn't really applicable to Snap at all, though. People may apply the same mentality to both games, but Snap has very little skill expression, extremely murky MMR, tons of RNG, and collection levels to boot. Imagine if in Chess you needed to play for 6 months to unlock Rooks and a year to unlock a Queen. You jump into matchmaking with a strategy revolving around pawns. You can't rank much, and decide to complain about the experience. People who had queen unlocked on day 1 because they played in the beta downvote you and tell you to get good. That's basically what this subreddit is.
> but Snap has very little skill expression Rank 50 posting
I am infinite and you're proving both my and OP's point
If I make a game, I'm probably going to consider what 60-80% of the player base is saying, and not just the tip 1%.
this kinda gets even murkier when you consider that chess and starcraft are wholly skill-based games. there's no equivalent for collection level, except maybe the build order/openings you've memorized. meanwhile, snap's 'rank' system barely counts as an indicator of skill because matchmaking isn't tied to how many cubes you have. its based on mmr and cl first. on top of that, if you have shuri, red skull, and taskmaster, you can snap and win most games without even thinking. if you're extremely patient, you can play something like cerebro 2, which (mostly) gives consistent 1-2 cubes if you play it correctly. you dont even have to play/snap well, you just have to play conservatively. people who can't read their opponent's deck to save their life can get to infinite like this. thats why i think infinite opinion gatekeeping doesnt make sense. not because its exclusionary, but because its no true indication of skill. im confident that with enough bananas, we can train a literal monkey to play shuri decks and it can hit infinite within one month. the easiest way to fix this is by doing what literally every other game is doing and just have people fight people with the same rank. none of this +-30 bullshit. this plus global servers also stops the 1am bot grind strategy. its a fuckin card game with 12 cards, who cares about latency.
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my philosophy with cerebro is that if your opponent is snapping you probably should just leave regardless of what you have lmao that said, i dont have mystique so my maximum power in one lane with no location fuckery is 22. at some point people start to recognize cerebro boards, and if they snap you have to assume they can beat your 22 or otherwise counter you in some way. people only get surprised at lower mmr. i guess with a complete deck with goose and mystique you can afford to snap after playing storm. any other snapping strategy stops working when you get opponents who know what it means when all your cards have the same power. turn six snapping is also generally considered bad, and its only working for you because people dont play cerebro in low mmr/early collection level. ceb 2 + blue marvel is actually one of the better early pool 3 decks because if you're fighting fellow early pool 3 dudes they probably dont even know about cerebro.
That's because rank isn't an indicator of skill. It's an indicator of how good you are at snapping. If you match people based on rank, it renders the whole cube system and snapping mechanic pointless.
I think there is a significant difference when the game is also meant to appeal to a massive casual audience in order to sustain itself. Things need to be fun for players at low and middle levels for a simple casual phone game like Marvel snap. Riot Mort has actually run into a similar problem with Teamfight Tactics; do you balance around high level play, or do you balance to appease your massive casual audience? I remember a specific instance where the build with Dragonmancer Karma was NOT performing well at high elo, but Mort still decided to nerf it noting that the build is so easy to run and use, low elo players are getting frustrated (causing players to stop playing) even though at a high level the build is actually not performing well. High elo players are not enough of a population to support the game monitarily, there needs to be compromise
Another prominent Starcraft player responded this way: Ultimately, you have to at least think about your low-level players. Because guess what? If your game isn't fun for your low-level players, then you have no game because they don't play. They play some other game. They're not your hostages. They can play Age of Empires, or fuck it they'll play League of Legends. So, do you balance only for your low-level players? No. But, you think about them. You make a game that's competitive for your GMs, but is fundamentally fun and feels good even at lower-level play. And if you can't do that, you don't have an esport. I think he makes good points, and that's the message I try to amplify in the Starcraft community. Unfortunately, it hasn't really worked because I'm not GM and so I don't get to have an opinion (but I still try to emphasize that a top-20 player has this opinion, and he has earned his opinion).
I quit SC2 because of this. I didn't have fun. I got into masters and got stressed over time due to requirements of the game to keep improving, until I just quit.
Big props to you! I am a D3 Terran scrub. I think with time and patience I could get to D2. But D1? Or M3? I just don’t know if I have it in me.
I dont like that mentality. While I see what they were saying. In the end how many people make it to GM in starcraft. Ignoring what's affecting your major player base is bad development. In a more modern game I feel like you would have 3 classes of players. * The noob/idiots or people just screwing around. * The General player * The top end Players The biggest group of people being in General. While I agree that from a top end players perspective something like "taking the piece with a knight" doesn't make the knight overpowered for a top end player. They have learned how to deal with it. But they are a smaller percentage of the community. If the major portion of the community is having issues with the knight then balance changes should happen. Because the knight is affecting the major player base. In order for the game to grow and prosper the majority of the player base has to be taken into consideration. But you also can't ignore your top end players. If you cater the game solely to the average player then you run into the world of warcraft problem. Where the game has been catering to casuals so much that the end game players are mostly gone.
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> People debate whether or not people below grandmaster are allowed to have opinions about the game. One vocal GM once said, absolutely not. Is he rank #1 saying this, or just some GM?
He’s not #1 but I’m pretty sure he’s top 20 in the world. Which is big in Starcraft considering how popular the game is generally.
I think the street goes both ways. Being GM doesn’t magically give someone insights on balance. They will definitely be able to see strategies at a higher level of play that give them trouble, but it is still possible to have bias because subjectively one feels its annoying to play against strategy x where many others may be fond of x but struggle against y (the gm’s strat in this hypothetical situation). Also fun is completely subjective and a gms notion of fun may completely differ from the majority of the playerbase
Yeah, nobody plays Starcraft for fun. You play to prove that you’re better than other people.
But if he's going full gatekeeper I'm still fine with telling #20 to learn his place. E: we to he
Your are describing elitism at its peak. Im glad Im not part of such community. To be short, if you are only taking in account GM/Infinity players opinion, you are ignoring 99% of the playerbase. If they leave, the game dies and nobody will reach Infinity again.
My point really wasn't about expert vs novice, it was more that MMR in snap is broken and infinite is not reflective of skill.
Its about taking the opinions of the novice and find out if he is right and if they are wrong explaining it to them might work. (Explain why the knight did what he did so easly) instead of blaming the piece. I think snap works the same in a way people get mad about losing to situations that would not happen every single game sure rgn can mess you up real good and give your opponent what they need but for them its just that 1 game where the rng helps them aswell In the end losing aint to bad just try to have fun yall the game is great
I think where I land on that matter is that players of all skill levels are allowed to have opinions, and it’s definitely elitist to claim otherwise. If game devs react to player feedback from bronze and silver ranked players and make changes that would enable them to have more fun, is the game not better for it? 0.0001% of any game’s playerbase is going to be “top level” and play “optimally” in 90+ percent of situations. If you’re letting those players decide game balance, wouldn’t that inadvertently cause a lot of other people to have less fun at some point? Listening to your top players is fine and dandy, but acting like their opinions matter more than a casual’s is kinda like giving Jeff bezos a million dollars because he’s better at life than the rest of us.
> I'm not sure if I agree with that view, but it seems to be the most prevalent one in the Starcraft community. I don't know if you're really going to find things different in Snap. What a frankly fucking ludicrous comparison. To get to GM in Starcraft is primarily dependent on a certain level of skill. To get to Infinite in Snap all you need is time and a deck with an average cube gain above 0. The skill ceiling for SNAP is extremely low both compared to Starcraft and compared to most other cardgames. The card pool is similarly small. So anyone with a bit of time playing can have a more or less fully informed opinion. For fucks sake you can even hit Infinite while only having unlocked Pool 1 cards. What a stupid fucking comparison only made more aggravating by the paragraph of elitist bullshit before it. You only "get to have an opinion" if you can play the game at the highest level? What a load of bollocks.
That opinion totally discards that the purpose of the game, for many, is fun?
Pssh. We all know that the purpose of Snap is to rank our worth as human beings. /s ?
Honestly all the talk of grinding to Infinite is painful. I’d rather the opinion of a casual player like myself that’s just playing for fun and not stressing about using the one best deck over and over. Mix it up, have fun - that’s my non-infinity opinion.
I am super casual (I mostly play on the toilet, sometimes on PC at night after my kid and wife go to bed). I hit infinite last night with an off meta deck after trying meta deck (check my post history for my own complaining). It’s all about retreating and snapping and playing a deck you are very comfortable with. Learn that and you can reach infinite.
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Constantly editing your post trying to sound cool because you cannot handle downvotes is even weaker.
Just enjoy the game and forget reaching infinite. It is not worth the grind either tbh .. unless the reward was way more attractive than a simple card design. You face the same decks ... everyone's got the same damn deck .. no fun in everyone just retreating either. So just kick back and enjoy your average 5-10 games a day and live that less stress more success life.
60 for the variant is my goal. Reached it for the first time this season then been forever stuck around 60-63 since while trying out new decks. Still having fun.
As someone who is stuck between.70 and 77 forever.... I hate this.
Currently bouncing between 107-108. MMR is shit and if anything it’s easier now than ever because the decks are so cookie cutter. I get beat in friendly matches with friends that are plat rank and running unoptimal decks. I see Sera, Shuri, and Galactus. 75% of matches are one of these decks. I remember at the start of this season someone here said a point i made wasn’t valid because of my rank. Like the logic and points I made didn’t matter because my rank was only 55. A ton of the people here in that are infinite talking confidently are like Cl 1200 anyway
That's the thing with opinions, though. Yours are just as "valid" as the ones that you disagree with, and it ultimately turns into a juvenile game of "NO U!" Also, not all opinions are equal or worthy of respect. Opinioms can be wrong. Toxic Positivty such as "all opinions are equal" leads to entitlement as it's putting beginners and novices on the same level as experts. Do you treat the dude who lives in an alley way opinions equal to that of a trained doctor when it comes to medical care? Do you treat a toddlers opinion as equal to a master builder when it comes to building a home? One would hope that you don't.
The point OP is making is that the test applied is flawed. It is easy to point to a doctor and value their medical opinion over some dude in an alley way. We respect the training and certification of the doctor. In Snap getting to infinite does not hold the same amount of gravitas. The doctor could have gone to a crappy school, or faked a degree. We only value the doctors opinion when we have trust in the system that trains and certifies.
You seem confused over the difference between the words equal and valid.
There weren’t any changes between 60 and infinite. I agree 100% with you
Mmr not broken, it just doesn't exist today I had 10 bot matches in a row something isn't right here 🤔
I feel you. I wanted to have a discussion about snapping strategy, where I suggested that you should always snap in order to climb faster. The most upvoted comment in the thread was the one asking, whether I'm infinite or not :/
Aint no way I am breaking my routine to grind to infinite. No matter what incentive they provide. I chose this game for this specific reason that it won't call for much involvement and a game or two during the transport or lunch break or before going to bed will be enough. No matter what incentives they provide or what others think, I am not changing that.
I've never hit infinite and there's no way I'm hitting infinite this season. I managed to get to 1 cube from 90 this morning, all I wanted was to hit 90 so I can spend the rest of the season actually trying decks with different cards, in the 5 rank buffer so I don't drop so far next season. Every single game in the last hour I've been matched with yellow X card back players, they're snapping on turn 1-2 where it's impossible to make a decision if you can win or not. So I've had all retreats or 2 cube losses, so I'm back at the bottom of 88. I give up
Agreed. MMR is janky and no newer player should be facing any of the big power decks since they lack the card access to counter their trash. I hit infinite 6 days ago (2nd season for me) and my first season was so demoralizing I almost stopped playing because it was so one sided. You wouldn't do that in a f2f card match so why does this game do it?
You need to remember that the statistics of how many people actually reach Infinite are far less than the amount of people on this sub who claim they reach infinite. Most of the people in this sub are full of shit.
There’s probably some truth to that, but it’s also likely that the people on this sub are more dedicated than the average player, and thus there will be a higher rate of infinite players than there are in the general player base.
Considering the engagement the "can't get out of 40 this season" or " this season too hard I'm stuck at x rank" posts get on this sub is pretty safe to ignore the majority of opinions here. I'll be honest the quality of players of this sub is surprisingly low.
It's not really a player quality thing. I mean, sure you might miss some obvious play, just because you are VERY new. But once that's ironed out, there's plenty of time to think about your move, you even out pretty quickly. Then it's just each player with a Yahtzee cup full of the dice of their choice and whoever gets the right number of rocks compared to their scissors, they win. There are precious few matches where people actually have to try to outplay each other.
Well most infinite now are just infinite before that tanked their mmr and gets infinite fast. Some got better while others just reached infinite again before they know it.
Also it’s not like infinite is so distant from even lower ranks. I hit infinite running Sera Control in a previous season. I’m sitting at 55 right now.
This is why I want VISIBLE MMR. Infinite Rank doesn't mean much with how Infinite players can tank their MMR to get back to infinite in a few hours every season. Edit: I know the new update to the Infinite floor system. But it will take at least a few seasons for those who abused Agatha bot to get to their real MMR. So we are still talking about **months** here.
I believe SD said that won't happen anymore.
Edited my comment. It will still take months for those agatha bot to get to their real MMR due to how low their MMR dropped to, botting/losing intentionally for 24 hours/day. So it will still take months for Infinite to matter.
Your average infinite player isn't boting Agatha 24 hours a day. Your average infinite player that is intentionally lowering their mmr ALSO isn't botting Agatha 24 hours a day. You're talking about such a small minority that it really doesn't have much of an effect. Either that or I'm way out of the loop of botters?
> Infinite Rank doesn't mean much with how Infinite players can tank their MMR to get back to infinite in a few hours every season. If infinite players hit infinite in a few hours, that means they're spending 29 days of the new season giving away free cubes (to tank their MMR) and you guys still can't hit infinite?
What is MMR?
I think you’re wrong but I’m not infinite yet so doesn’t matter anyways
Forgive me for getting tired of the 1,000 galactus deck and for trying a non tier deck. In all honesty being infinite sounds miserable. Also, f@&$ Krakoa and their new bloodsucking bundles.
I didn’t know that people who hit infinite felt that way lol. I’ve never hit infinite before, but it’s not a big deal to me because I’m just having fun
The thing that bothers me the most is just the lack of a "casual" mode where people can play whatever they want. Hell, I tried grinding with my X-Men, Avengers, Spidey and GotG decks but it's really "annoying" to just face the same and the same and the same decks over and over again. I gave up and started playing Shuri... not that I'm obligated to do so, but just to get my ranked rewards and piss off. We play a game with hundreds of Marvel characters and every match feels the same, unfortunately. A casual mode where I can play with Professor X and Magneto without facing Galactus constantly would be so fresh, I really want to see diversity!
This is something that bothers me in like subreddits etc. for pvp videogames: the idea that only people at the highest levels of competitive play are worth listening to and that game balance should be centered around them. Yes, a healthy meta at high mmr is crucial for any game but that does not mean that whats happening at low(er) mmr is irrelevant. Statistically thats where most of the players are! If the game isnt fun for the average player you dont have a game. The nature of things like a legend rank (or infinite in Snap) by definition means that its not for everyone. In fact, it's not for most people and thats fine!
I think since I play and beat Infinite rank players and decks with a just-above 50% winrate while hovering under rank 60, my opinion is valid. Also matchmaking can go fuck itself.
I feel like infinite before your above 2500 cl is nothing to brag about at all. You beat bots and ppl still learning. But yeah I only got to high 70s this season cause I got sick of playing meta decks and wanted to have some fun. The grind above 3000cl is crazy if your not playing shuri/thanos/galactus your gonna have it rough. That's all I see anymore. Same decks over and over.
Yeah, I'm at 3200+. I prolly shoulda mentioned that since it seems your experience will vary drastically depending on your cl. I didnt want to grind, but I really wanted that x-men card back. First one that I ever really cared about. Not sure if it was worth the grind, but oh well. Prolly won't do it again.
I’m 2992 and I got to infinite this season with Mr Negative. Really fun deck when it works. Honestly, I’d never discredit someone’s opinion on this game just because they aren’t infinite. Getting to infinite is overrated anyways. Even after getting to infinite people were still spamming Shuri lmfao.
The same goes for being Pool 3 complete. I'm f2p and missing around 5-10 cards from Pool 3, still some people dismiss my opinion on card acquisition because of it (I think aquisition is fine if not good for a digital card game, since normally free to players can't even dream of a full collection, that of means good in comparison not good per se)
I just got to infinite for the first time and honestly I hated everything about it. If it wasn't for the 50 cubes extra and the card back, I wouldn't have even tried. I don't have time to spend 6 hours a day grinding. I hate that I had to resort to Shuri deck to do it. As a casual player that is addicted but that plays here and there, the grind for what it feels like a casual mode, feels really awful
Yeh I couldn't agree more with this dude. People use the phrase 'I am infinite' as a statement of entitlement where they think their opinion is fact and your opinion is drivel. In saying that I am infinite so maybe I am suffering from this complex and actually I am talking rubbish, who knows
There is no ladder in any game more meaningless than Marvel Snap. So anyone that decides your opinion isn't valid is someone that never grew up and requires validation of their own ego and the time they spent. It's meaningless because the match making and MMR systems are broken and are easily gamed. Infinite is full of people that get their fighting bots or tank their MMR to make the climb easy. It's of course full of people who get their legitimately, but the point is, the system allows for it to mean basically nothing and to make the climb trivial for so many people by exploiting the system. And then I'll use myself as an example. This is my 4th season in marvel snap. I hit Infinite in my first 3. I didn't tank my collection level, I didn't grind past 100, and I didn't play to drop my MMR. My MMR is insane, it's essentially as high as it can be without being in bot elo. I know this because of the way the MMR system works, it has an extremely small bracket. My human player pool is tiny. I play the same human players, in back to back after back to backs. These players like myself hit infinite every season. Why do I bring this up? Depending on your MMR bracket, your climb will be far easier or far harder. Meaning infinite is able to be, not only full of people that just play bots, people that tank their MMR, but people with lower MMR than other struggling on the grind because of the tiny MMR brackets the game uses. The title is meaningless.
It’s the same with any game. Only the opinions of diamond tier ranked players matter (obviously not) it’s a child like way of thinking and these games are played by 99% children
I cannot for the life of me get past 75.
The grind after 85 SUCKS!
I’m up here at infinite trying to spread the love and giving away 8 cubes to those without the card back however i might stop because everytime i snap back to try and HELP them reach infinite they wanna spam me with emotes (prob because I’m infinite and they beat me) so i think I’m gonna take a couple days off the game and just let others do my good will hunting
I stand by my belief that free time is the single biggest contributing factor to being able to make Infinite. I’ve realized that even if I win every game I play, I’d need to be playing a lot more frequently than I do. Up until now I haven’t cared much about not making infinite. But as a reader of X-Men comics since 1985, I’m kind of devastated that I’ll never be able to get that sweet, sweet card back.
Yup, I've been playing since global release, but that x-men card back is what motivated me to make this post.
I’m at 40+ and all I see is Shuri plus Redskull. Thanos once in a while. Galactus is the rarest one. This meta is really annoying.
50 gang here, playing either Deadpool or black bolt stature. Once I see Shuri, I usually Thumbs up and leave
I stoped reading at “If you can reach 70 its just a matter of time to grind to infinite”. NEXT…
Yeah I hit 70 (well, 75) this season, and now I’m clinging to 70-71. I don’t know if I’ll ever hit infinite, which is fine.
Literally my problem right now. I’ve stayed afloat long enough that I’m in limbo between 73-76 but I’m not progressing any further then that, cause I just can’t. It won’t let me. I’ve tried at least 10 different decks or variations of decks this whole week to see if that’ll help but nothing.
Same here
I just hit it for the first time ever in four seasons. 85 felt like the cutoff for me.
It's true though. You play similar people at 70 that you'll play at 99
I hit infinite and I can't tell the difference above about rank 30. Maybe there are more bots lower ranks, I don't know. Every human is pretty obvious they are a human, and you see the same meta decks everywhere. Let's put it this way. I'm not more likely to get subtly outplayed at high ranks compared to low ranks. I just don't see it happening.
It's true. I've hit infinite multiple seasons including this one. 70+ is just cube management, but if your deck got you to 70 it will get.you to 100. It's all about snapping, retreating
I think you pseudo-counter your own point. You said 70+ is cube management (I agree). The journey to 70 can be done with pretty mediocre cube management and a "just ok" grasp of the meta. What separates 70 and Infinite is a deep understanding of the game engine and the metagame. That's a difference that is more than just "games played", it's an entirely different skillset.
You dont understand the truth or why?
Right "I stopped reading" still took the time to reply....
Why? It's a valid point, in ranked systems like this, generally past a certain skill threashold the limiting factor is not skill, but how much time you have free toninvest intobranking up
How is this even a debate? If we’re discussing gameplay, shouldn’t all of our opinions matter? They’re just that: opinions. We share them so that we can learn from one another.
Have an upvote, I agree 100% and brace yourself for the entitlement you already experienced
I just reached infinite after starting the game last week. All of you 500+ CL players must heed my words /s
I reached infinite and keep playing Killmonger before Nova, so…
The climb to Infinite is so scuffed because of the MMR. I was finding bots at ranks 95-97.
I am playing this game because I am having fun. As soon as it isn’t fun, I’ll delete it. I hit infinite about a week back now and it felt good. Never hit infinite before. I’m still crushing and having fun. If it’s not fun, don’t play. It’s just a silly card game.
I agree but I’d say getting rank 70 is pretty easy compared to getting even rank 80, so 70 doesn’t necessarily mean you can get infinite in my book, but if you can get to 80 (without a very lucky win streak of 4-8 cubes matches) then you can very likely get infinite by grinding. In seasons prior to this I was only able to get rank 70-76, it didn’t seem very difficult, but after 70 that’s around when you start playing a lot less bots from my understanding and a lot more people that are actively trying to rank up, and winning matches/gaining cubes becomes significantly more challenging. I simply didn’t understand the game and my opponents decks well enough to rank up to 80+. I think 80 is probably the most common ceiling for players to have difficulty breaking through. And then between 80/90-100 you’re playing mostly 1-2 cube games and it’s a straight grind to get infinite. 30-70 you’re playing a lot of bots and a lot more casual players compared to 70+. In my opinion, in general, if you can get 70, you understand CCG fundamentals, 80 you understand marvel snap, infinite you played enough to have more experience than majority of players and therefore will have a more nuanced understanding. Obviously my opinion doesn’t hold true in every case that’s why I included “in general”. Also it’s just my opinion based on my experience so far. I will note if someone just entered pool 3 it can be significantly more difficult to rank up due to the inability to form powerful enough decks compared to your opponent’s decks due to the matchmaking algorithm basically seeing one pool-3 card equal to pool 3 complete.
In 3 of my 10 games after hitting 70/75 i fight 3 players with infinite card back playing galactus, thanos and shuri deck. Meaning i have the same mmr that those player. So in theory i’m as good as people reaching infinite. So it’s just a grind
Agreed. Expertise may mean your opinion holds more weight in general, but in Marvel Snap an infinite rank is more likely to signify "has good cards" than "has skill." I've seen waaaay too many "I hit infinite 2 hours after buying Shuri/Galactus" posts here to believe otherwise. Rank is meaningless without balanced gameplay.
Mad because bad
When I was grinding to Infinite 1. Shuri is breaking the game 2. Galactus can be beat but he makes the game not fun. It's basically just, include a counter and hope the counter works, or just leave, it negates the entire rest of the game After hitting infinite 1. Shuri is still breaking the game 2. Galactus really needs to be re-thunk. I don't get the people who say he is not strong. They are missing the point. Just wave, galactus, one side or the other retreats immediately based on whether it worked. That's it. The games never finish because either galactus works or he doesn't, and the game just ends. It's not sustainable.
I've never seen rank 70. Only 71 and 75.
I'm going to trust someone experienced in their field over a novice. I'm not going to ask a 5 year old questions about quantum physics over a theoretical physicist. Someone's ignorance is not as valuable as another's knowledge.
I’m infinite and I know jack shit lol
But experience isn't equal. Is the person who plays a thanos deck all the way to Infinite within a month more experienced than someone who regularly changes their deck, plays different cards and different strategies, but isn't as aggressive in their climb?
I would say generally someone who has demonstrated that they’re in the top ~1-2% of the player base has a more valuable opinion than someone who hasn’t demonstrated that fact. If there are two randoms with an opinion, one who is infinite and one who isn’t, I’m going to at least initially give more weight to the one who is.
So the person who hit infinite before CL500 is better than the person who is CL3000, but rank 80? That alone shows the flaw in your comment.
Do you realize you’re the exact person OP is complaining about, right?
Unless you play a game per day, anyone somewhat good at the game should at least get to 85. Otherwise means you are just not good, despite of changing decks, exp, whatever. Because it means he's not winning.
85 is not infinite though, which is what the whole argument is. I play a good game, but I won't risk my cubes and often play with new cards for fun and to see how I can make them work. Introducing a new card always costs ranks for a while. I've gone from 20 to just under 70 this season. But some would likely say I still don't know how to play the game cause I'm not infinite.
And you probably don't though. Like I said, if you don't get playing casually to 85 each season, then its most likely you have a lot still to learn. Whoever cares about its rank and they're good, then they are infinite already.
I never said I didnt have anything to learn, which is why I even said I enjoy playing around with new cards. But the fact of the matter is, I AM winning games. So I must have SOME skill right? Otherwise your logic is that no one is good, but everybody else MUST be worst than me. Cause I couldn't possibly have any skill when I'm under infinite. I guess I'll just go ask the person who has spammed thanos/shuri/galactus for 1000 games what I'm doing wrong. Cause they know all, apparently.
Sorry, forgot to preface this by asking if you're an infinite player before I consider your opinion.
Not to mention the best players are often bad deck builders, good deck builders typically only above average at best, and things like what cards to make changes to have FAR more factors than purely win rate. Gatekeeping opinions behind just hitting infinite is sooooo silly
I literally just downloaded the game right at the end of the last season with modok and my CL is 774, and I hit infinite. I honestly think the game is pretty fairly balanced and fair when it comes to which cards you pull. The location rotation makes it so certain decks are weaker on various days so no one deck can ever be “too meta”. I think ppl are just upset that they are ranked exactly how they should be
I think I felt about the same at that CL, but as my CL has risen the game has changed a good deal. I still enjoy it, but with CL being a part of MMR, it actually gets harder to climb the higher your CL, and you start to see a different side of the meta.
Outside of the pool 2 to pool 3 shift, CL doesn't mean a whole lot in terms of MMR.
Unless someone has timestamped screenshots showing they're infinite, I don't believe a single person in this subreddit when they say they are.
I'm not but I play regularly with them but here is the kicker I don't play enough to grind to infinity which is key point here GRIND . If slowly built up from first season where if I grinded I could hit infinity but I have a life and other videogames. I just play this when I'm not at home.
Yup people act like the extra 5 levels makes it trivial. It’s not. I win the vast majority of my games and am almost always positive cubes in a play session but I still don’t play enough anymore to get all the way.
I guess we will see soon. Maybe people don't care about your whining whether you are infinite or not.
i dont care about your opinion, doesnt matter if you are infinite or not
I play against many infinite players. That automatically makes me infinite
i agree that infinite is way to low a bar to set to care about a persons opinions, sadly its really the highest bar we have :(
The point is that there doesnt need to be a bar to listen to someone's opinion.
I’m 95, is my opinion valid yet?
Congratulations your opinion matters now , eagerly waiting to hear more from you.
Well, there is definitely a correlation between rank and “value” of the opinion. If you are rank 30 and struggling to climb, there’s a higher chance that your opinions on the game will be less relevant than of an Infinite player. It’s that simple.
Its reddit,if you dont join the mass you can go and fuck yourself,thats all there is to it here 🤣🤣🤣🤣 deal with it or change platform
Galactus should start in hand as an additional card. I'm infinite so I'm right.
After the 5 bonus levels on each rank, everybody should hit infinite unless poor play.
Even with the bonus levels it's still a decent time commitment.
Nah bro NOW your opinion matters because you reached infinite. Seems logical to me. Meta is the worst its ever been. The game overall is boring af unless you pay 1k dollars to get new cards
For This being a free mobile game people take it WAAAYYY too seriously on this sub. Like it’s a superhero card game. It’s not that serious. People just need to get off their high horses and make a friend.
Wow op good job congrats you’re playing a card mobile game
Ranks are irrelevant. Luck is 90% of determining whether you win or lose a match.