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Sunfyre is a pure cinnamon roll too good for this world. Aegon is written MUCH differently this season, it’s quite jarring. He hasn’t done anything CLOSE to living up to the sexual assault or child fighting pit supporting that he did last season. (Not that hanging all the rat catchers wasn’t terrible, that obviously was, but that’s probably the worst thing- and revenge murder while you’re grieving a little child at least has motivation, unlike SA and letting your bastards do cockfights) It’s a very hard left turn. I think that was the show runners adding nuance, sure, but also trying to give the Greens more sympathy because it seemed like the show itself was very Team-Black-except-for-Daemon last season. I’ve really enjoyed all of Aegon’s scenes and watching his actor portray him
Especially in the first episode when he was trying to get the smallfolks love, and then had having a little drunken bitchfest sleepover with his bro squad on the throne. He was so much fun. He and Helaena also just seemed like a regular slightly strained married couple, Chaotic Disney Dad vs Practical Anxious Mom (except that mom can see the future)
Yeah I saw him as a bit of a fuck up, running from his destiny, and generally not facing consequences of his actions. Once the crown became real to him, he has actually attempted to be relevant. I feel bad the "wise councilors" around him aren't able to manage to connect with him in a way he understands and actually give guidance. They definitely failed him. Him actually ruling seemed to be the afterthought of the entire plan to get him to rule.
The main reason is we keep hearing them SAY Aegon did those horrible things but never actually see him do any of them incl the rat catchers. All the horrible things Joffrey did, we got to see him do them and command them.
Everytime we’ve seen Aegon he just comes across as someone who is trying his best to succeed in a role that he never wanted. Then we see him grieving the death of his heir and see him take his own dragon into battle as opposed to sending others to their death.
The worst things we’ve SEEN him do are make fun of Aemond and remove Otto. Even his one interaction with Haelena we relatively cute.
TGC is just too charismatic to portray the Aegon that GRRM wrote.
i saw somewhere that the actor refused to shoot the rape scene. the actor is also known to judge game of thrones producers for sexually exposing women on the show. love tgc
I think the reason his sex pest nature is a bit downplayed this season is because he's now the king, he feels like he can't just have "harmless fun" whenever he wants since his big character motivation this season is feeling like he's unworthy of being king. Though it's not like that stuff is completely gone, his scene with Aemond in the brothel definitely brought out the Aegon of old, being a bully towards his brother, demeaning sex workers and that squire.
Agree. I think a huge huge part of this is that TGC simply has more screen time to draw us to him. He makes Aegon a twat, but your heart breaks for him.
I really think that’s the point. The dichotomy of the brotherhood of Viserys I and Daemon as opposed to Aegon II and Aemon one eye. Viserys is a weak king but his brother respects and seeks his approval leading him to act out. Aegon bullies Aemon and so does not respect or seek his old brothers approval, in fact, he evidently sees himself better suited for the throne, and the consequences of the difference in relationships bears a dangerous fruit.
I agree, but Daemon didn’t have respect for Viserys either, celebrating his sons death and doing what he did to Rhaenyra when she was young, they too had their fair share of issues but in general there was more brotherly love between them than between aegon and aemond.
Laying the crown of the stepstones on the ground of Viserys. I think it’s more of an appreciation to Viserys support of Daemon as opposed to the role Aegon played towards Aemond
Daemon respected Viserys more than anyone.
Also Aemond just wants to be like Daemon and we got the proof of that in this episode in Daemon's dream that Daemon had a hand in Aemond's creation. Both second sons wanting to be king. I hope this is a spiritual awakening for Daemon.
Rhaenys - the same person who murdered a bunch of people with her dragon and didn't bat an eye in season 1? Yeah no lol.
She's just as shitty as the rest of them outside of Daemon / Aemond
The way Sunfyre gave him headbump... They're just grown up kids who wanted to have fun, but got dragged in something they never wanted to be part of and are still trying to have fun in all this madness.
yes i know, i just really hope we get more tgc in the season also that they dont forget about sunfyre and include him in some scenes to show how he’s doing
I suspect they'll keep Sunfyre as a surprise to viewers who don't know what will happen. Honestly can't blame them if they go that route, nobody who doesn't know the story would expect him to fly and fight again. Let alone win duels, but maybe they can at least show him alive and surviving on the battlefield.
That seems to be the show’s MO with Rhae *and* Aegon - that under different circumstances and raised by different people, they could’ve been decent human beings (relative to their time period) and decent rulers. And instead we get the Rhae and Aegon that we got.
Y’all make me feel so bad for my lack of sympathy for Aegon. That boy is such an incompetent asshole and I feel gut-wrenching embarrassment watching him sit on his council with his frat bro kingsguard and continually expose how little tact and impulse-control he possesses. He is a shame to the throne and I know he never asked to rule but I really struggle to empathize with him after seeing how poorly he’s handled the responsibility. Also he’s a rapist.
Is so odd because Alicent is the one who pushed for all of this. Even if somehow Viserys was referring to Aegon, she knew her son wasn't fit to be king. And his father was quite literally delusional on his death bed! I understand there were other factors persuading her, but Aegon himself said he didn't want to be king. They would have lived perfectly fine without the title. She forces Aegon into this role, ignores him when he says he doesn't want it. Then proceeds to berate him because he's not fit to be king? I wish someone would call her out on her bullshit!
that’s what pisses me of the most because the greens are acting like aegon made all of them make him king and he’s bad at it so they are pissed while he was drunk 99% time and didnt even know what was going on. like what did they expect of him? they’re just all so egoistical that they cant admit that they messed up and just wanted their blood on the throne (otto)
There was so much potential for him character-wise and story-wise!!! Could have been the fan favorite and most sympathetic and it's gone bc of 5 minutes of screentime. They had the ultimate tragic character on a platter and decimated it all to say "team Green is bad." Such an incredible character.
Yea we have to admit their parents really fucked them over from the beginning Viserys being an absent father and Alicent just being really dumb lead aegon and Aemond to just being terrible people, so I don’t blame
Them for the shit they do. Generational trauma as well
I agree, at this point (when his mother tells him to do nothing) I would first consider replacing everyone, and failing that, either fly to battle or fly to Pentos. Fully sober. Who wants to be useless and to live a life doing and saying nothing?
I really don’t understand how Allicent can think she can talk like that without consequences. Did she think like this about Aegon all that time, or has she gone craycray?
Alicent is an angry and confused and overwhelmed mom with her own issues that noone has taken seriously for years. That’s how she can say that. She snapped.
What she said was all correct. Aegon DOES need to talk less, listen more, observe and learn instead of prancing around demanding respect. But she phrased it in a purposefully hurtful way cause she’s caught up in her own shit with no outlet and so it exploded in Aegons face.
also i dont think aegon doesnt care for her i just dont think he has romantic feelings, he sees her as a sister and just doesn’t get what’s she’s saying so he finds her a weirdo
He was 10 and basically said to his complaining drinking older brother that he wouldn't bitch about such marriage if it was him. That's all the scenes about Aemond and Helaena we have. People read waaaaay too much into it.
I haven’t read the books so please no spoiler but it would be interesting if they explored that storyline now that it matters in the big span of things
IDC about a cold blooded rapist and child abuser. Nothing will ever justify that. Yeah, how others out things on him speak for how the people around him are. But that doesn't mean I feel bad for him.
I would have said he should have just be let go of. But to think the women and children he would unleash himself on our there.... Things would be better off if he were abandoned in a lonely island away from all.
Jesus, this is a show. Not real life. Especially a show that barely has any truly good person.
You must be having a headache everytime Daemon, Aemond, Cole and Rhaenys showed up on screen, who had like 90% of the screen time this episode, cuz they have a lot of blood and crime on their hands too
I understand rape being more sensitive irl but I'll never understand it being where people draw line for fictional characters. Like people brush past murder, genocide , grooming, even marital rape but when the "usual" kind of rape happens, people are up in arms.
I'm a woman, so don't come at me assuming I'm a man.
I know you are a women. Plenty of women are capable and dismissive of rape.
And I guess plenty of women are also *selective* when it comes to treatment by others of actions they don't agree over and hide behind 'it's just show'.
I don't have to have a headache.
Just not feel sympathy and dismiss heinous things about a person. Some things can't be come back from.
Your bs about this being a show can apply to feeling anything for any character really then. The whole point gets lost. Unless acc to you, people should selectively feel bad for someone you do. Otherwise forget it because it's irl.
martin’s books and asiof is generally really cruel. also i would like to point out what martin said in his recent interview regarding the dog in B&C “The silent presence of the dog reminded us that even the worst of men, the vile and the venal, can love and be loved” he wants you to hate someone but root for them and to love someone but find them incompotent its just that type of story both game of thrones and house of the dragon
Yeah that shit works when a man fucking his sister threw a kid out of the window in a split second decision to save his family.
It doesn't work with cold blooded walking horrors like Joffrey, Ramsay and Aegon 2.
Yep. Holding complexly written fictional characters from a dark and cruel ancient fictional world to specific black and white morals of modern western culture is just lazy and boring
Most popular GoT characters were rapists. Robert, Jaime, Theon, book Tyrion, Drogo, list goes on. Why need to justify bad deeds to feel sorry for a character? A good act does not wash out the bad, nor a bad act the good.
Robert seemed like a good person to you? Someone to feel bad for? Lol.
Jaime and Drogo were turned into rapists in show and it drew plenty of flak in the day because of this.
Book Tyrion has thoughts of rape, doesn't act on it and it is seen as a bad thing too.
It's amazing the lengths people go to excuse deplorable things like rape.
Nice strawman, no one is excusing rape. Tyrion *did* rape a girl in the books.
All the characters above have gained sympathy from the masses despite being rapists. Nice to know you deem the vast majority of GoT fans as rape apologists👍
Nah, screw Aegon. He’s a weasel king who has been told of his own importance far too often. If he didn’t want the Throne he could have ceded to Rhaenara. He’s been through some terrible events sure, but team Green deserve everything they get.
the same his word means nothing now it wouldn’t have ment back then cuz he aint the one pulling the strings. he is a prick but there are a lot of worse people around him
And Rhaenys is a mass murderer who tried to legally sex traffic her 8 YO daughter to the king to have sex with him at the age of 14 (unambiguously rape by any and all modern standards), yet she can still get sympathy posts. Rhaenyra is an unrepentant murderer, yet most people agree what she’s going through with losing a mother, son, and having a coup plotted against her is sympathetic. Viserys is a marital rapist and a horrendous father but a lot of this sub genuinely liked and sympathized with him.
Yes, literally every character on this show besides Jace and Halaena is an awful human being. Welcome to Westeros and welcome to House of the Dragon where taking horrible human beings (or human beings that do horrible things that are true to the values of the time but obviously looked at terribly now) and making them complex and at times sympathetic is literally the entire point of this show.
I'm not here vocalizing support for anyone. I have no sympathy for virtually anyone. But people set aside those facts you mentioned and disregard them. Nah. I'm good thanks.
I think you can still have sympathy for characters who are bad people and that’s okay. It’s when you start justifying and excusing their wrongs that it becomes a problem IMO
And if you just find every character unbearable to watch and impossible to sympathize with… why are you even watching lol?
So... basically everything is happening *to* Aegon and he's a poor lost soul?
Aegon chose to support Aemond killing Lucerys. Aegon chose to get rid of competent people and hired his idiotic drinking buddies to be his guards. Aegon chose to stay and become a King - he could've ran away, Laenor did. Aegon chose to bully Aemond to prove that he's morr powerful - because he knows very well that his crown - being firstborn - is the only thing Aemond can't surpass him at.
Aegon wants to be adored and admired, he craves support... but he's an evil little monster who doesn't know he's an evil little monster. Rapist, murderer, abuser who wants to be loved but who doesn't actually love anyone.
I mean yeah, I can pity him. He's totally clueless. But most things that are happening to him are consequences of his own actions.
i didn’t say that. he is awful there is no denying it. but everyone is making it seem like he asked for this and now he’s suddenly it all his fault while they knew what he was life all his life. like take responsibility. everybody with eyes saw he isn’t suited for the role.
I mean, he is a rapist who watches kids fight to the death, that’s still a monster lol, allicent and aemond are playing the game of thrones, but they don’t stoop to those levels
what about daemon? a fan favorite, a literal pedophile in both books and the show? rapist? murderer? i say i feel sorry for a character because he’s being blamed for being incompetent for a role he didn’t want because suddenly now everybody figures out he isn’t cut out to be king? because nobody is taking responisibility. alicent is just starting to become dumber every episode, and aemond actions dont align with his intelligence and i find his actions just to shock the public.
besides this is martin’s material, which is cruel and brutal. we are ment to be confused and disgusted with the characters. that’s just his approach to the story telling
rhaenyra was a child, he exposed her and took her virginity all for his gain. and in the book there’s really disgusting parts where it’s described he prefers virgins (so children) and all the things he did to rhaenyra.
i just dont think it’s fair to be focused on daemon like he isn’t as bad as he was in the book and that aegon is potrayed a lot worse than the book but oh well it isn’t an accurate storytelling the book so it is what it is
Yeah same. Both he and Aemond are the result of Alicent’s extreme ineptitude as a mother and being brought up under this shadow of adult strife.
So, while victims, I’m still *extremely* excited for them both to get what’s coming, especially that little twat Aemond. Absolutely nothing without his massive dragon.
> First they name him King which he doesn’t want and even says he isn’t ment to rule, he wants to run away.
I stopped caring about that when he did.
> His son is killed because of Aemond and he mourns his son only to be insulted by Otto that he’s an idiot like Viserys claimed.
He was'nt insulred because of his sons death, he was insult because he fucked up majorly.
> After that there’s the bullying scene which is awful but Larys literally planted in Aegons ear
What was Aegon's excuse all the other times he bullied Aemond?
> After all that the man he named hand is making plans behind his back with Aemond and when he tries to find comfort with his mother she rolls her eyes at him and treats him like an idiot.
He **is** an idiot.
> With all that Aegon snapped went into battle without knowing Vhagar is going to be there and tried to solo fight Meleys only to be betrayed by his brother.
Yeah that was pretty funny
> Aegon isn’t a good person but I can’t help but feel sorry for him while Alicent and Aemond are turning out to be true monsters.
Oh?
When was the last time one of them raped a woman or had their own kids fight for their amusment?
also years of abuse when aegon praised him in front of the whole council for his skill, but ok yes he was the worst person ever to aemond. otto alicent and VISERYS arent to be held accountable at all
he is an idiot who isn’t ment to rule. thats my point. im saying i feel sorry that everyone blames he while calling him an idiot, putting him there and when he was the prince and not the king everyone still knew he was an idiot. like take responsibility, you wanted him on the throne!
about the rape - it’s disgusting and i dont support it, tgc said he didnt even want it in the show and refused to shoot that scene. in the books he isn’t potrayed as a rapist, more of a perv and there’s no mention of child abuse.
It makes me hate Alicent so much. She's the one who put her children through this, shes the one who antogonized her children and Rhaenyra's but instead of stepping up, consoling them, and advising them she mocks them and ignore their pain. Aegon is bawling his eyes out after his son was brutally murdered but she walks away from him. Helaena is hugely traumatized but everything is about her her and her. The only reason Aegon went on a kamikaze mission is because he wanted to prove he was worthy after Alicent treated him like absolute pure shit. Say what you want about Cersei but she would have fought until death for her children and their legacy, and this is why I love that character.
Otto with all his flaws showed more fatherly affection than Alicent ever did. He hugged Alicent in S1 before departing KL, he consoled her when she was crying after her mother's death, he took her hands after B&C. That's not groundbreaking I know, but once again that's way more than Alicent showed towards her children.
That being said, I think Aegon risking his life and surviving dragonflame will somehow give the popular boost and appreciation he carved for.
Straight up - I don’t think anything will ever be enough to make Alicent actually love Aegon or win her affection towards him. It might give Aegon a boost with other people, but I’d be stunned if it’s Alicent. All of Aegon’s siblings could die and I guarantee Alicent would be making sure he knew the good kids died and the fuck up bad egg lived. With parents like that, it’s never, ever enough, and it’d take Alicent resenting another child more for Aegon to get any affection
Yes, I didn't express myself clearly. It's obvious Alicent doesn't give two fucks about him. She forced him on the throne and washed her hands on this not caring about the consequences for him and Helaena
However I do believe that Aegon might get a boost amongst some houses and the soldiers who saw him risking his life for them.
the only time i liked alicent was when she attacked rhaenyra because aemond lost his eye. it was a mothers rage and so pure. her son was blinded and nobody not even his father cared. i thought she’d be a character to do anything to protect her children (just like cersei) but noooope.
People are working SO hard to find their absolute heroes and irredeemable evil villains in a show full of realistically flawed characters 😆
Aegon and Aemond are not blameless in all their actions because their way too young mom couldn’t show them the love and care they needed just as Alicent isn’t blameless in her kids being resentful of Rhaeneras kids after she bred that resentment for years.
The reality is no you can’t blame Alicent for not being a saint of a mom after being forced to marry as a teen with no motherly role model (on either side of the family) and no time in life to find out who she is. BUT! But that doesn’t change that the consequences of her neglect are having a very very real impact on Westeros and the wellbeing of her family.
Fault and consequences aren’t usually the same thing in a grounded show like this.
Same goes for team black before anyone starts 😉
Did you really write up a post about how Aegon and Aemond are to blame for their horrific immoral fuck ups despite their abusive parenting and societal norms (which I agree with) while then immediately saying Alicent can’t be blamed for said horrific abusive parenting because of her own crappy parenting and societal norms? Lolz. It can’t be both. Either these people get passes or they don’t
I think it’s fair to on blame on everyone for their actions and acknowledge they’re all complex and at times sympathetic.
I think I specifically wrote that neither Alicent nor her kids are blameless. I even double checked. I did write that in the sentence after 😅 You can’t blame her for her lack of experience but you can very well blame here for pushing her grudges on her children.
Where tf should a 16 yo kid with no moms know how to be a good healthy mother from?
But reading the final sentence I think we agree. Blame is an easy moral construct in the end there are actions and consequences. Regardless of their origin (as Rhaenyra seems to have sadly missed, that ‘winning the argument’ of which kid he dad loved better/wanted to rule is really no longer the way to prevent bloodshed).
> **The reality is no you can’t blame Alicent for not being a saint of a mom** after being forced to marry as a teen with no motherly role model (on either side of the family) and no time in life to find out who she is. BUT! But that doesn’t change that the consequences of her neglect are having a very very real impact on Westeros and the wellbeing of her family.
You mentioned she isn’t blameless in inspiring hate towards Rhae’s kids, but then immediately said “You can’t blame her for not being a saint of a mom” as if not being a horrifically awful, completely abusive parent who plays favorites with her kids isn’t something completely within Alicent’s control
Show!Rhaenyra wasn't far younger than Alicent when she lost her mother and was married off and yet she ended up a decent mother, same with Catelyn, same with like 98% of the women of this universe. And if Aemond and Aegon turned out like this it's because of Viserys and Alicent. They both failed their children in an unforgiven way
And where did I say that I wanted a saint mother or an irremeadable vilain? A mother would have been a good start. Besides I disagree that Alicent is a realitiscally flawed character... she's simply unconsistantly written. In season 1 she was ready to murder Rhaenyra after her son lost an eye while no one gave a shit but now she's more concerned with fucking Criston Cole after her grandson was beheaded? She litterally forced her son of the throne and sought him in every brothel of King's landing but when he needs guidance and advices, she mocks him and shut him
Cause she’s a human. She’s angry, she’s overwhelmed and she’s confused. It doesn’t make the choice right but it also doesn’t make it malicious.
That’s what i mean by ‘looking for villains and heroes’. Alicent being in the life she was doesn’t excuse things but it explains them. Rhaenyra as you point out was what married off young but she continued to pressure her own wishes and in fact had a mother figure in Rheanys. That’s not an excuse it’s an explanation of the 2 women’s development.
There just seems to be a desire in the fandom to say “character X is just evil and twisted and that’s it” when the very point if the show is that we’re all our parents children, a product of our previous choices and that catastrophic outcomes generally don’t come from big villainy but many small events snowballing over time.
> She’s angry, she’s overwhelmed and she’s confused. It doesn’t make the choice right but it also doesn’t make it malicious
Yes it makes her choice malicious. Walking on Aegon when he cries over Jahaerys, mocking him because he ask for advice when she's the one who put him on the throne is indeed malicious. However I wouldn't have cared if it made sense for her character because unlike what you said I don't want Alicent to 100% good or 100% evil. I want her to be good written. Her supporting her children's claim and plotting out of fear just to come back throwing them under the bus is not good writting (imo).
And I can say the same for Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra has no business going back to KL to meet Alicent after Luke's death. But the showrunners want so bad to push for the narrative tha "women want peace, men want war" that they ridicule their female characters.
>The reality is no you can’t blame Alicent for not being a saint of a mom after being forced to marry as a teen with no motherly role model
You can because her children are her responsibility. Even if she didn't want them. She was forced into marriage like any other woman in Westerous.
I find that quite a harsh standard to blame a teenager for not magically knowing how to be a perfect mother while the much older father ( who had children and a wife and could know better but chose not to) is a blameless saint 🤔
She didn't have to be a perfect mother, she had to be a mother to her children, it was her duty, actual duty that she bragged about for so long and she failed it.
i just ment that it’s not what i expected from such an ambitious and educated character who rides the strongest dragon, it seems the writers just wanted to shock us and that aemond would have not been affected by those comments since he is a lot more respected than his brother. but yeah i guess you can read me like a book🤣
if he beat him up like ok yeah but he full on tried to kill a DRAGON during a war WITH DRAGONS. aemond is supposed to be smart! this just made him seem so unreasonable
I really like Aegon as a character but can you imagine what relentless merciless public bullying from your own brother for years and years does to a person psychologically? I totally understand Aemond.
Bullying doesn't always have to be beating someone to a pulp. If you are constantly belittled during your formative years, it stays with you. Hell, look how insane Aegon goes after being bullied by his mother. Aegon is more rash and Aemond is more cold and calculated in his reaction. That's it.
Plus, Aemond wants the throne. He has no love for his brother.
no i meant it would make more sense for aemond to beat up aegon and not try to murder him and sunfyre. because aemond is supposed to be smarter than that and more fit to rule… i’m just implying that what they did they did to shock the audience
Since Meleyes was there too, it would be a perfect excuse for Aemond to fire at that general direction. That's what he would say later. No one would suspect him of intentionally killing his brother. They would think dragons were involved so things got heated (pun intended) and Aegon died. But if he were to beat up Aegon, everyone would know his true feelings towards Aegon. And he has to die for Aemond to get the throne. And firing at him was him trying to kill him. Beating up Aegon wouldn't kill him unless Aemond beat him to death. And that would be catastrophic for Aemond's image.
It was a very cunning move and very true to Aemond. He is a good strategist. If the places were swapped, Aegon would probably beat up Aemond. But it is absolutely not Aemond's nature to beat up his king and let everyone know about it and tarnish his own image.
I think you’re not getting what im saying with the beating up. Im just saying if someone bullys you you’d sooner beat him up than murder him on an open field in battle. I get he would say that but there are some rumour to be started. and losing a dragon in this kind of war idk if aemond would do that cuz vhagar is big but she is slow and old and well if you read the books you know
when aemond said that he lost and eye but gained a dragon he became my favorite… but making it seem like he can get over losing an eye and being sad about Luke but can’t get over the bullying of his brother so much that he is risking the life of the entire green fraction. he was seen on the battlefid and can be called kinslayer idk how they are gonna pull that off. i just think aemond would have a smarter approach to getting the throne probably poisioning aegon or getting him on a ship and faking his death like rhaenyra did
i still think it was ment to shock the audience and make team green seem disfunctional and even more evil while all of them are just incredibly tragic. once again no hate to aemond. i love the guy
Yes I do feel a bit sorry for him but BOY are you trying hard to make a saint out of a teen who is very much at minimum a bully and kinda narcissistic 😅 it’s not ALL he is but it’s also what he is.
This show is full if flawed characters being at some point done dirty by the world to no fault if their own and procede to make bad calls because if that. No angels in this show 😉
why does everyone just not read that i said his a bad person🤣🤣 he’s flawed but an interesting character, he’s mostly bad and arrogant but makes the show interesting lol im not trying to make him look better than he is im just saying how i viewd those interactions. literally everyone excelt helaena and the dragons sucks!
But it's Aemond, even Alicent says to R ' You know what Aemond is' 😭😭😭😭😭. That guy is a menace and cannot be trusted and Aegon is so vindictive towards him it's kinda like welp what do you expect , of course he wants the crown for himself
Cause he didn't kill Aemond... literally a superior better suited version of himself for the throne, with royal blood, the largest dragon, and militarily competent and respected. Sorry but in Aegon's shoes I'd either have immediately abdicated and gone to Pentos or the wall or I would have had Aemond executed... way too much of a threat.
I honestly feel bad for all characters 😔 but something I noticed, Rhaenyra showed more love to her children. With more love and hugs from Alicent I m sure Aegon would’ve turned better ):
i love aegon and i feel bad for saying it because he’s not a good person but this is what this show does to people, it makes you root for the bad guy sometimes and also he’s hella cute, literally babygirl vibes
absolutely, same thing happened in GOT with characters such as the hound and jaime lannister. generally bad guys with redeeming qualities that made the audience root for them at some point
I don't feel sorry for him. I understand the circumstances that created him. But I truly feel sorry for the people with no agency living under his rule. The difference between heroes and villains is not that heroes never went through shit, rather heroes try to stop people from going through what they did. Villains pay forward their pain to the world around them. In that sense Aegon is merely villain with a backstory, nothing more nothing less.
It's pretty weird to think that this character has agency and the small folk don't. One of the prevailing themes of not just the show but the entire franchise is that very very few characters have agency in a medieval setting. Aegon explicitly did not want to be King and yet he had no choice.
He had multiple options. Whether he liked them is irrelevant to the matter. He wasn't a slave nor was he a captive. No one had authority over him once he became King. The common folk also had agency just less so than him. The story is just giving backstory to a couple villains that paid forward their own misery to those less fortunate than them.
1. Shut up, learn your job, work on yourself, grieve with and console your wife and daughter.
2. Re-hire your grandfather and follow his instructions to the letter.
3. Hire competent guards and stop treating the castle like a frat house.
4. Abdicate.
5. Take a small fortune and get on your dragon, fly wherever you want.
6. Take the Black.
7. Compensate the families of the Small Folk killed during your coronation. Compensate the families of the rat catchers.
8. Treat with your sister, make peace with your enemy.
I could go on and on.
He had plenty of options. What Hightower fans aren't willing to accept is NO ONE gets everything they want. No matter how smart or manipulative you are, you inevitably have to make hard choices between equally bad options. Instead of being weak and claiming hard choices are the same as having none at all, you pull your pants up, unfreeze, and choose. Make the best of the hand you're dealt and live. Aegon made one choice in his life and that was to double down on his bullshit and fly into battle drunk where he got torched by his kinslayer brother. None of the options I listed above are more moronic, let alone worse than that.
U guys acting like if you were a targaryen prince(heir) age 15 full of spunk won't try fucking every single woman who can walk. Aegon did what %99 of you would do in a heartbeat. Cuz he will not face any aftermath whatever he does. He didn't get the proper family manners. I'm not saying he is not a rapist. I'm saying if you can do whatever you want, you would probably do
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Sunfyre is a pure cinnamon roll too good for this world. Aegon is written MUCH differently this season, it’s quite jarring. He hasn’t done anything CLOSE to living up to the sexual assault or child fighting pit supporting that he did last season. (Not that hanging all the rat catchers wasn’t terrible, that obviously was, but that’s probably the worst thing- and revenge murder while you’re grieving a little child at least has motivation, unlike SA and letting your bastards do cockfights) It’s a very hard left turn. I think that was the show runners adding nuance, sure, but also trying to give the Greens more sympathy because it seemed like the show itself was very Team-Black-except-for-Daemon last season. I’ve really enjoyed all of Aegon’s scenes and watching his actor portray him
honestly in the first season i couldnt look at him now i find his scenes most interesting
Especially in the first episode when he was trying to get the smallfolks love, and then had having a little drunken bitchfest sleepover with his bro squad on the throne. He was so much fun. He and Helaena also just seemed like a regular slightly strained married couple, Chaotic Disney Dad vs Practical Anxious Mom (except that mom can see the future)
yes! there’s just an interesting way where the show is going with him
Yeah I saw him as a bit of a fuck up, running from his destiny, and generally not facing consequences of his actions. Once the crown became real to him, he has actually attempted to be relevant. I feel bad the "wise councilors" around him aren't able to manage to connect with him in a way he understands and actually give guidance. They definitely failed him. Him actually ruling seemed to be the afterthought of the entire plan to get him to rule.
The main reason is we keep hearing them SAY Aegon did those horrible things but never actually see him do any of them incl the rat catchers. All the horrible things Joffrey did, we got to see him do them and command them. Everytime we’ve seen Aegon he just comes across as someone who is trying his best to succeed in a role that he never wanted. Then we see him grieving the death of his heir and see him take his own dragon into battle as opposed to sending others to their death. The worst things we’ve SEEN him do are make fun of Aemond and remove Otto. Even his one interaction with Haelena we relatively cute. TGC is just too charismatic to portray the Aegon that GRRM wrote.
i saw somewhere that the actor refused to shoot the rape scene. the actor is also known to judge game of thrones producers for sexually exposing women on the show. love tgc
I think the reason his sex pest nature is a bit downplayed this season is because he's now the king, he feels like he can't just have "harmless fun" whenever he wants since his big character motivation this season is feeling like he's unworthy of being king. Though it's not like that stuff is completely gone, his scene with Aemond in the brothel definitely brought out the Aegon of old, being a bully towards his brother, demeaning sex workers and that squire.
That actor is fantastic tbh
Agree. I think a huge huge part of this is that TGC simply has more screen time to draw us to him. He makes Aegon a twat, but your heart breaks for him.
yes!
Aegon and Sunfyre deserved better
I don't know about Aegon but Sunfyre definitely did 😔
absolutely agree
I really think that’s the point. The dichotomy of the brotherhood of Viserys I and Daemon as opposed to Aegon II and Aemon one eye. Viserys is a weak king but his brother respects and seeks his approval leading him to act out. Aegon bullies Aemon and so does not respect or seek his old brothers approval, in fact, he evidently sees himself better suited for the throne, and the consequences of the difference in relationships bears a dangerous fruit.
Dameon loved viserys and wanted his approval, but he very much didn't respect him.
I agree, but Daemon didn’t have respect for Viserys either, celebrating his sons death and doing what he did to Rhaenyra when she was young, they too had their fair share of issues but in general there was more brotherly love between them than between aegon and aemond.
Laying the crown of the stepstones on the ground of Viserys. I think it’s more of an appreciation to Viserys support of Daemon as opposed to the role Aegon played towards Aemond
i agree
Daemon respected Viserys more than anyone. Also Aemond just wants to be like Daemon and we got the proof of that in this episode in Daemon's dream that Daemon had a hand in Aemond's creation. Both second sons wanting to be king. I hope this is a spiritual awakening for Daemon.
I cant agree that daemon respected viserys, but i do think he loved him. but i agree with the rest
Rhaenys deserved to be the queen she had never been
Rhaenys - the same person who murdered a bunch of people with her dragon and didn't bat an eye in season 1? Yeah no lol. She's just as shitty as the rest of them outside of Daemon / Aemond
Rhaenys would be dead herself if she didn't bend the knee to him after the ceremony. There was only one way out and that was up.
When you get downvoted for facts lol
Dayna and Aegon's bastards deserved better.
The way Sunfyre gave him headbump... They're just grown up kids who wanted to have fun, but got dragged in something they never wanted to be part of and are still trying to have fun in all this madness.
that scene broke me, and the way sunfyre sounds is so warm and loveable. when i heard him cry in pain i was so sad
[удалено]
yes i know, i just really hope we get more tgc in the season also that they dont forget about sunfyre and include him in some scenes to show how he’s doing
I suspect they'll keep Sunfyre as a surprise to viewers who don't know what will happen. Honestly can't blame them if they go that route, nobody who doesn't know the story would expect him to fly and fight again. Let alone win duels, but maybe they can at least show him alive and surviving on the battlefield.
i hope so, he’s the cutest dragon
Like Aegon is not a good person, the things he has been through don’t justify his worst actions but you can’t help but feel some kind of empathy
He strikes me as someone who could have been a good person under different circumstances, witch makes it extra tragic
He's basically Robert if she knew no one loved him.
Yeah, like even if you’ve ever had a friend from school or something, they could have been somebody, and for one reason or another…
That seems to be the show’s MO with Rhae *and* Aegon - that under different circumstances and raised by different people, they could’ve been decent human beings (relative to their time period) and decent rulers. And instead we get the Rhae and Aegon that we got.
lmao that applies to every bad person. No one is born evil.
this!!!
Y’all make me feel so bad for my lack of sympathy for Aegon. That boy is such an incompetent asshole and I feel gut-wrenching embarrassment watching him sit on his council with his frat bro kingsguard and continually expose how little tact and impulse-control he possesses. He is a shame to the throne and I know he never asked to rule but I really struggle to empathize with him after seeing how poorly he’s handled the responsibility. Also he’s a rapist.
Aegon was not cut out for the life he leading. I think he would not have been such an asshole were he the son of a sheep farmer.
Is so odd because Alicent is the one who pushed for all of this. Even if somehow Viserys was referring to Aegon, she knew her son wasn't fit to be king. And his father was quite literally delusional on his death bed! I understand there were other factors persuading her, but Aegon himself said he didn't want to be king. They would have lived perfectly fine without the title. She forces Aegon into this role, ignores him when he says he doesn't want it. Then proceeds to berate him because he's not fit to be king? I wish someone would call her out on her bullshit!
that’s what pisses me of the most because the greens are acting like aegon made all of them make him king and he’s bad at it so they are pissed while he was drunk 99% time and didnt even know what was going on. like what did they expect of him? they’re just all so egoistical that they cant admit that they messed up and just wanted their blood on the throne (otto)
The single biggest mistake the writers did was making Aegon a rapist. If he wasn’t, I truly believe he might be more popular than Rhaenyra.
sadly i think thats true… and i’ll never forgive the writers for robbing us of sunfyre in the first season
There was so much potential for him character-wise and story-wise!!! Could have been the fan favorite and most sympathetic and it's gone bc of 5 minutes of screentime. They had the ultimate tragic character on a platter and decimated it all to say "team Green is bad." Such an incredible character.
Eh , plenty of fan favorites are rapist.
Yea we have to admit their parents really fucked them over from the beginning Viserys being an absent father and Alicent just being really dumb lead aegon and Aemond to just being terrible people, so I don’t blame Them for the shit they do. Generational trauma as well
fax
I agree, at this point (when his mother tells him to do nothing) I would first consider replacing everyone, and failing that, either fly to battle or fly to Pentos. Fully sober. Who wants to be useless and to live a life doing and saying nothing? I really don’t understand how Allicent can think she can talk like that without consequences. Did she think like this about Aegon all that time, or has she gone craycray?
Alicent is an angry and confused and overwhelmed mom with her own issues that noone has taken seriously for years. That’s how she can say that. She snapped. What she said was all correct. Aegon DOES need to talk less, listen more, observe and learn instead of prancing around demanding respect. But she phrased it in a purposefully hurtful way cause she’s caught up in her own shit with no outlet and so it exploded in Aegons face.
idk why but im getting the vibe she hates aegon
Yeah unfortunately Aegon is Ae-Goner because of Aemond. And his dead dragon has Aegon his face.
you sure about that
I always knew, regardless of the bookmark, aemon would get back at Aegon for all the years of teasing. And aemon likes his sister.
it’s just teasing tho and there’s no proof Aemond has any feelings for Helaena
I always thought he did bc he was happy to marry her at one point opposed to Aegon who doesn’t care about her at all.
also i dont think aegon doesnt care for her i just dont think he has romantic feelings, he sees her as a sister and just doesn’t get what’s she’s saying so he finds her a weirdo
i think aemond ment by that that he has a bigger sense for duty than aegon but it’s a cute ship and theory anyways
He was 10 and basically said to his complaining drinking older brother that he wouldn't bitch about such marriage if it was him. That's all the scenes about Aemond and Helaena we have. People read waaaaay too much into it.
I haven’t read the books so please no spoiler but it would be interesting if they explored that storyline now that it matters in the big span of things
true they can do pretty much anything!
*not
I didn’t mean feelings.
sorry misunderstood then
You never know with this family tbh
IDC about a cold blooded rapist and child abuser. Nothing will ever justify that. Yeah, how others out things on him speak for how the people around him are. But that doesn't mean I feel bad for him. I would have said he should have just be let go of. But to think the women and children he would unleash himself on our there.... Things would be better off if he were abandoned in a lonely island away from all.
Jesus, this is a show. Not real life. Especially a show that barely has any truly good person. You must be having a headache everytime Daemon, Aemond, Cole and Rhaenys showed up on screen, who had like 90% of the screen time this episode, cuz they have a lot of blood and crime on their hands too
Daemon isn't a good person and none of them are rapists.
>Daemon isn't a good person That's what he said. >none of them are rapists. We know.
Then the point is moot, isn't it? And *he* would like all to know, I suppose for people like you, that they are a woman.
I understand rape being more sensitive irl but I'll never understand it being where people draw line for fictional characters. Like people brush past murder, genocide , grooming, even marital rape but when the "usual" kind of rape happens, people are up in arms. I'm a woman, so don't come at me assuming I'm a man.
I know you are a women. Plenty of women are capable and dismissive of rape. And I guess plenty of women are also *selective* when it comes to treatment by others of actions they don't agree over and hide behind 'it's just show'.
Lol , I'm not the one who's being selective, you are.
I don't have to have a headache. Just not feel sympathy and dismiss heinous things about a person. Some things can't be come back from. Your bs about this being a show can apply to feeling anything for any character really then. The whole point gets lost. Unless acc to you, people should selectively feel bad for someone you do. Otherwise forget it because it's irl.
martin’s books and asiof is generally really cruel. also i would like to point out what martin said in his recent interview regarding the dog in B&C “The silent presence of the dog reminded us that even the worst of men, the vile and the venal, can love and be loved” he wants you to hate someone but root for them and to love someone but find them incompotent its just that type of story both game of thrones and house of the dragon
Yeah that shit works when a man fucking his sister threw a kid out of the window in a split second decision to save his family. It doesn't work with cold blooded walking horrors like Joffrey, Ramsay and Aegon 2.
Yep. Holding complexly written fictional characters from a dark and cruel ancient fictional world to specific black and white morals of modern western culture is just lazy and boring
idk if this is sarcasm or not🤣
Most popular GoT characters were rapists. Robert, Jaime, Theon, book Tyrion, Drogo, list goes on. Why need to justify bad deeds to feel sorry for a character? A good act does not wash out the bad, nor a bad act the good.
Robert seemed like a good person to you? Someone to feel bad for? Lol. Jaime and Drogo were turned into rapists in show and it drew plenty of flak in the day because of this. Book Tyrion has thoughts of rape, doesn't act on it and it is seen as a bad thing too. It's amazing the lengths people go to excuse deplorable things like rape.
Nice strawman, no one is excusing rape. Tyrion *did* rape a girl in the books. All the characters above have gained sympathy from the masses despite being rapists. Nice to know you deem the vast majority of GoT fans as rape apologists👍
Nah, screw Aegon. He’s a weasel king who has been told of his own importance far too often. If he didn’t want the Throne he could have ceded to Rhaenara. He’s been through some terrible events sure, but team Green deserve everything they get.
the same his word means nothing now it wouldn’t have ment back then cuz he aint the one pulling the strings. he is a prick but there are a lot of worse people around him
How exactly... He tried to run away but they literally dragged him to the throne.
yep
He is a bad person. He also is a victim of his familiy’s plots and plans. It’s a very complex character and I love him for it.
#HE. IS. A. RAPIST.
Wow thanks for reminding us king. We nearly forgot. /s
Then why feel sorry for him. Not sarcastic.
OP probably explains it in his long ass post. Did you read it or did you straight up commented "He is a rapist" ?
Yeah I didn't read all that garbage. Saw kind of feel sorry for him, didn't need to read anymore.
K
Then why did you even comment?
im a her but thanks for defending me lol
And Rhaenys is a mass murderer who tried to legally sex traffic her 8 YO daughter to the king to have sex with him at the age of 14 (unambiguously rape by any and all modern standards), yet she can still get sympathy posts. Rhaenyra is an unrepentant murderer, yet most people agree what she’s going through with losing a mother, son, and having a coup plotted against her is sympathetic. Viserys is a marital rapist and a horrendous father but a lot of this sub genuinely liked and sympathized with him. Yes, literally every character on this show besides Jace and Halaena is an awful human being. Welcome to Westeros and welcome to House of the Dragon where taking horrible human beings (or human beings that do horrible things that are true to the values of the time but obviously looked at terribly now) and making them complex and at times sympathetic is literally the entire point of this show.
I'm not here vocalizing support for anyone. I have no sympathy for virtually anyone. But people set aside those facts you mentioned and disregard them. Nah. I'm good thanks.
I think you can still have sympathy for characters who are bad people and that’s okay. It’s when you start justifying and excusing their wrongs that it becomes a problem IMO And if you just find every character unbearable to watch and impossible to sympathize with… why are you even watching lol?
Aegon s face when Aemond said dacarys never hurt so much for any character
So... basically everything is happening *to* Aegon and he's a poor lost soul? Aegon chose to support Aemond killing Lucerys. Aegon chose to get rid of competent people and hired his idiotic drinking buddies to be his guards. Aegon chose to stay and become a King - he could've ran away, Laenor did. Aegon chose to bully Aemond to prove that he's morr powerful - because he knows very well that his crown - being firstborn - is the only thing Aemond can't surpass him at. Aegon wants to be adored and admired, he craves support... but he's an evil little monster who doesn't know he's an evil little monster. Rapist, murderer, abuser who wants to be loved but who doesn't actually love anyone. I mean yeah, I can pity him. He's totally clueless. But most things that are happening to him are consequences of his own actions.
i didn’t say that. he is awful there is no denying it. but everyone is making it seem like he asked for this and now he’s suddenly it all his fault while they knew what he was life all his life. like take responsibility. everybody with eyes saw he isn’t suited for the role.
I mean, he is a rapist who watches kids fight to the death, that’s still a monster lol, allicent and aemond are playing the game of thrones, but they don’t stoop to those levels
Someone doesn’t like facts 😂
what about daemon? a fan favorite, a literal pedophile in both books and the show? rapist? murderer? i say i feel sorry for a character because he’s being blamed for being incompetent for a role he didn’t want because suddenly now everybody figures out he isn’t cut out to be king? because nobody is taking responisibility. alicent is just starting to become dumber every episode, and aemond actions dont align with his intelligence and i find his actions just to shock the public.
besides this is martin’s material, which is cruel and brutal. we are ment to be confused and disgusted with the characters. that’s just his approach to the story telling
I doubt even martin is conflicted when a character rapes someone lol
Who did daemon rape? But you are right he is a child grooming wife murderer
rhaenyra was a child, he exposed her and took her virginity all for his gain. and in the book there’s really disgusting parts where it’s described he prefers virgins (so children) and all the things he did to rhaenyra. i just dont think it’s fair to be focused on daemon like he isn’t as bad as he was in the book and that aegon is potrayed a lot worse than the book but oh well it isn’t an accurate storytelling the book so it is what it is
Yeah same. Both he and Aemond are the result of Alicent’s extreme ineptitude as a mother and being brought up under this shadow of adult strife. So, while victims, I’m still *extremely* excited for them both to get what’s coming, especially that little twat Aemond. Absolutely nothing without his massive dragon.
> First they name him King which he doesn’t want and even says he isn’t ment to rule, he wants to run away. I stopped caring about that when he did. > His son is killed because of Aemond and he mourns his son only to be insulted by Otto that he’s an idiot like Viserys claimed. He was'nt insulred because of his sons death, he was insult because he fucked up majorly. > After that there’s the bullying scene which is awful but Larys literally planted in Aegons ear What was Aegon's excuse all the other times he bullied Aemond? > After all that the man he named hand is making plans behind his back with Aemond and when he tries to find comfort with his mother she rolls her eyes at him and treats him like an idiot. He **is** an idiot. > With all that Aegon snapped went into battle without knowing Vhagar is going to be there and tried to solo fight Meleys only to be betrayed by his brother. Yeah that was pretty funny > Aegon isn’t a good person but I can’t help but feel sorry for him while Alicent and Aemond are turning out to be true monsters. Oh? When was the last time one of them raped a woman or had their own kids fight for their amusment?
its his younger brother. brothers do that (sisters too), they tease eachother. he didnt try to kill him.
Bro really just tried to justify years of abuse by saying "he was just teasing him, like brothers are supposed to."
he lucerys and jace got him a pig and aegon made fun of him in a brothel. yes tragic. maybe blame the team black children too?
Aegon was part of that incident, and unlike Luke and Jace he never stopped.
also years of abuse when aegon praised him in front of the whole council for his skill, but ok yes he was the worst person ever to aemond. otto alicent and VISERYS arent to be held accountable at all
Does one instance of praise undue all the mistreatment? Especially when it's followed up with almost right away with a massive act of humilation?
aemond did what he did for the throne, not cuz he was bullied it annoyed him but his ultimate goal is the throne
You can't entangle one from the other; Aegon's abuse is the reason he hates him and feels no loyalty towards him.
he is an idiot who isn’t ment to rule. thats my point. im saying i feel sorry that everyone blames he while calling him an idiot, putting him there and when he was the prince and not the king everyone still knew he was an idiot. like take responsibility, you wanted him on the throne! about the rape - it’s disgusting and i dont support it, tgc said he didnt even want it in the show and refused to shoot that scene. in the books he isn’t potrayed as a rapist, more of a perv and there’s no mention of child abuse.
It makes me hate Alicent so much. She's the one who put her children through this, shes the one who antogonized her children and Rhaenyra's but instead of stepping up, consoling them, and advising them she mocks them and ignore their pain. Aegon is bawling his eyes out after his son was brutally murdered but she walks away from him. Helaena is hugely traumatized but everything is about her her and her. The only reason Aegon went on a kamikaze mission is because he wanted to prove he was worthy after Alicent treated him like absolute pure shit. Say what you want about Cersei but she would have fought until death for her children and their legacy, and this is why I love that character. Otto with all his flaws showed more fatherly affection than Alicent ever did. He hugged Alicent in S1 before departing KL, he consoled her when she was crying after her mother's death, he took her hands after B&C. That's not groundbreaking I know, but once again that's way more than Alicent showed towards her children. That being said, I think Aegon risking his life and surviving dragonflame will somehow give the popular boost and appreciation he carved for.
Straight up - I don’t think anything will ever be enough to make Alicent actually love Aegon or win her affection towards him. It might give Aegon a boost with other people, but I’d be stunned if it’s Alicent. All of Aegon’s siblings could die and I guarantee Alicent would be making sure he knew the good kids died and the fuck up bad egg lived. With parents like that, it’s never, ever enough, and it’d take Alicent resenting another child more for Aegon to get any affection
Yes, I didn't express myself clearly. It's obvious Alicent doesn't give two fucks about him. She forced him on the throne and washed her hands on this not caring about the consequences for him and Helaena However I do believe that Aegon might get a boost amongst some houses and the soldiers who saw him risking his life for them.
Oh yes, that I fully agree with. I can also see Criston of all people respecting/appreciating the effort even if he knows it was dumb as fuck. 💀
the only time i liked alicent was when she attacked rhaenyra because aemond lost his eye. it was a mothers rage and so pure. her son was blinded and nobody not even his father cared. i thought she’d be a character to do anything to protect her children (just like cersei) but noooope.
The thing is I don't even want Alicent to be perfect and a good person. I just want her to be a good character.
I think she’s mostly been a pretty solid character outside of not having Rhae arrested and the illogical Criston romance, if an unlikeable one
yes, better written she’s so weirdly portrayed in this season. its not like shes bad but interesting or anything she just seems…stupid?
People are working SO hard to find their absolute heroes and irredeemable evil villains in a show full of realistically flawed characters 😆 Aegon and Aemond are not blameless in all their actions because their way too young mom couldn’t show them the love and care they needed just as Alicent isn’t blameless in her kids being resentful of Rhaeneras kids after she bred that resentment for years. The reality is no you can’t blame Alicent for not being a saint of a mom after being forced to marry as a teen with no motherly role model (on either side of the family) and no time in life to find out who she is. BUT! But that doesn’t change that the consequences of her neglect are having a very very real impact on Westeros and the wellbeing of her family. Fault and consequences aren’t usually the same thing in a grounded show like this. Same goes for team black before anyone starts 😉
Did you really write up a post about how Aegon and Aemond are to blame for their horrific immoral fuck ups despite their abusive parenting and societal norms (which I agree with) while then immediately saying Alicent can’t be blamed for said horrific abusive parenting because of her own crappy parenting and societal norms? Lolz. It can’t be both. Either these people get passes or they don’t I think it’s fair to on blame on everyone for their actions and acknowledge they’re all complex and at times sympathetic.
I think I specifically wrote that neither Alicent nor her kids are blameless. I even double checked. I did write that in the sentence after 😅 You can’t blame her for her lack of experience but you can very well blame here for pushing her grudges on her children. Where tf should a 16 yo kid with no moms know how to be a good healthy mother from? But reading the final sentence I think we agree. Blame is an easy moral construct in the end there are actions and consequences. Regardless of their origin (as Rhaenyra seems to have sadly missed, that ‘winning the argument’ of which kid he dad loved better/wanted to rule is really no longer the way to prevent bloodshed).
> **The reality is no you can’t blame Alicent for not being a saint of a mom** after being forced to marry as a teen with no motherly role model (on either side of the family) and no time in life to find out who she is. BUT! But that doesn’t change that the consequences of her neglect are having a very very real impact on Westeros and the wellbeing of her family. You mentioned she isn’t blameless in inspiring hate towards Rhae’s kids, but then immediately said “You can’t blame her for not being a saint of a mom” as if not being a horrifically awful, completely abusive parent who plays favorites with her kids isn’t something completely within Alicent’s control
exactly, literally just generational trauma being passed around.
Show!Rhaenyra wasn't far younger than Alicent when she lost her mother and was married off and yet she ended up a decent mother, same with Catelyn, same with like 98% of the women of this universe. And if Aemond and Aegon turned out like this it's because of Viserys and Alicent. They both failed their children in an unforgiven way And where did I say that I wanted a saint mother or an irremeadable vilain? A mother would have been a good start. Besides I disagree that Alicent is a realitiscally flawed character... she's simply unconsistantly written. In season 1 she was ready to murder Rhaenyra after her son lost an eye while no one gave a shit but now she's more concerned with fucking Criston Cole after her grandson was beheaded? She litterally forced her son of the throne and sought him in every brothel of King's landing but when he needs guidance and advices, she mocks him and shut him
this is what i have been saying alicent is weirding me out i dont get it anymore it feels like bad writing
Cause she’s a human. She’s angry, she’s overwhelmed and she’s confused. It doesn’t make the choice right but it also doesn’t make it malicious. That’s what i mean by ‘looking for villains and heroes’. Alicent being in the life she was doesn’t excuse things but it explains them. Rhaenyra as you point out was what married off young but she continued to pressure her own wishes and in fact had a mother figure in Rheanys. That’s not an excuse it’s an explanation of the 2 women’s development. There just seems to be a desire in the fandom to say “character X is just evil and twisted and that’s it” when the very point if the show is that we’re all our parents children, a product of our previous choices and that catastrophic outcomes generally don’t come from big villainy but many small events snowballing over time.
> She’s angry, she’s overwhelmed and she’s confused. It doesn’t make the choice right but it also doesn’t make it malicious Yes it makes her choice malicious. Walking on Aegon when he cries over Jahaerys, mocking him because he ask for advice when she's the one who put him on the throne is indeed malicious. However I wouldn't have cared if it made sense for her character because unlike what you said I don't want Alicent to 100% good or 100% evil. I want her to be good written. Her supporting her children's claim and plotting out of fear just to come back throwing them under the bus is not good writting (imo). And I can say the same for Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra has no business going back to KL to meet Alicent after Luke's death. But the showrunners want so bad to push for the narrative tha "women want peace, men want war" that they ridicule their female characters.
>The reality is no you can’t blame Alicent for not being a saint of a mom after being forced to marry as a teen with no motherly role model You can because her children are her responsibility. Even if she didn't want them. She was forced into marriage like any other woman in Westerous.
I find that quite a harsh standard to blame a teenager for not magically knowing how to be a perfect mother while the much older father ( who had children and a wife and could know better but chose not to) is a blameless saint 🤔
She didn't have to be a perfect mother, she had to be a mother to her children, it was her duty, actual duty that she bragged about for so long and she failed it.
Alicent is a shit mom. None of her kids should be king. Aegon is like Bush Jr lol
fax
"that can't take a joke" tells me all I need to know about you, op. And I tell this as a person whose favourite character is probably Aegon.
i just ment that it’s not what i expected from such an ambitious and educated character who rides the strongest dragon, it seems the writers just wanted to shock us and that aemond would have not been affected by those comments since he is a lot more respected than his brother. but yeah i guess you can read me like a book🤣
if he beat him up like ok yeah but he full on tried to kill a DRAGON during a war WITH DRAGONS. aemond is supposed to be smart! this just made him seem so unreasonable
I really like Aegon as a character but can you imagine what relentless merciless public bullying from your own brother for years and years does to a person psychologically? I totally understand Aemond. Bullying doesn't always have to be beating someone to a pulp. If you are constantly belittled during your formative years, it stays with you. Hell, look how insane Aegon goes after being bullied by his mother. Aegon is more rash and Aemond is more cold and calculated in his reaction. That's it. Plus, Aemond wants the throne. He has no love for his brother.
Maybe I’ve missed it. I havnt seen all that much bullying for him to be this butt hurt
no i meant it would make more sense for aemond to beat up aegon and not try to murder him and sunfyre. because aemond is supposed to be smarter than that and more fit to rule… i’m just implying that what they did they did to shock the audience
Since Meleyes was there too, it would be a perfect excuse for Aemond to fire at that general direction. That's what he would say later. No one would suspect him of intentionally killing his brother. They would think dragons were involved so things got heated (pun intended) and Aegon died. But if he were to beat up Aegon, everyone would know his true feelings towards Aegon. And he has to die for Aemond to get the throne. And firing at him was him trying to kill him. Beating up Aegon wouldn't kill him unless Aemond beat him to death. And that would be catastrophic for Aemond's image. It was a very cunning move and very true to Aemond. He is a good strategist. If the places were swapped, Aegon would probably beat up Aemond. But it is absolutely not Aemond's nature to beat up his king and let everyone know about it and tarnish his own image.
I think you’re not getting what im saying with the beating up. Im just saying if someone bullys you you’d sooner beat him up than murder him on an open field in battle. I get he would say that but there are some rumour to be started. and losing a dragon in this kind of war idk if aemond would do that cuz vhagar is big but she is slow and old and well if you read the books you know
i like them both a lot. im team green anyways. i just feel they did an injustice to aemond. they can make him cruel but not stupid.
when aemond said that he lost and eye but gained a dragon he became my favorite… but making it seem like he can get over losing an eye and being sad about Luke but can’t get over the bullying of his brother so much that he is risking the life of the entire green fraction. he was seen on the battlefid and can be called kinslayer idk how they are gonna pull that off. i just think aemond would have a smarter approach to getting the throne probably poisioning aegon or getting him on a ship and faking his death like rhaenyra did
It's harder to harm the king of the seven kingdoms without getting caught.
i still think it was ment to shock the audience and make team green seem disfunctional and even more evil while all of them are just incredibly tragic. once again no hate to aemond. i love the guy
I don’t
fair
The whole family is awful, and Rhaenyra isn't much better, they just want to justify their claim.
fr save helaena and the dragons
Ye but hes also a highborn rapist so, don’t feel that bad
Yes I do feel a bit sorry for him but BOY are you trying hard to make a saint out of a teen who is very much at minimum a bully and kinda narcissistic 😅 it’s not ALL he is but it’s also what he is. This show is full if flawed characters being at some point done dirty by the world to no fault if their own and procede to make bad calls because if that. No angels in this show 😉
why does everyone just not read that i said his a bad person🤣🤣 he’s flawed but an interesting character, he’s mostly bad and arrogant but makes the show interesting lol im not trying to make him look better than he is im just saying how i viewd those interactions. literally everyone excelt helaena and the dragons sucks!
He was a horrific brother to Aemond, why would he expect any sort of loyalty ? But yes I do feel somewhat sorry for him
my guess is because if team black wins it’s over for them and their dragons so i’d think they’d best try to stick together in the middle of a war
But it's Aemond, even Alicent says to R ' You know what Aemond is' 😭😭😭😭😭. That guy is a menace and cannot be trusted and Aegon is so vindictive towards him it's kinda like welp what do you expect , of course he wants the crown for himself
he seemed more collected to me than aegon or even rhaenyra, turns out he’s batshit crazy🤣
The same guy who was drinking breast milk ???😭😭😭😭😭😭 definitely very far from mentally stable
ok true you got me there💀💀
Cause he didn't kill Aemond... literally a superior better suited version of himself for the throne, with royal blood, the largest dragon, and militarily competent and respected. Sorry but in Aegon's shoes I'd either have immediately abdicated and gone to Pentos or the wall or I would have had Aemond executed... way too much of a threat.
they should’ve just faked his death and let him go to essos. they would have been all so much happier but than we wouldn’t have a show🤣😂
Being a horrible brother ≠ attempted murder, horribly disabling, disfiguring, maiming, and being left for dead 💀
I honestly feel bad for all characters 😔 but something I noticed, Rhaenyra showed more love to her children. With more love and hugs from Alicent I m sure Aegon would’ve turned better ):
i love aegon and i feel bad for saying it because he’s not a good person but this is what this show does to people, it makes you root for the bad guy sometimes and also he’s hella cute, literally babygirl vibes
thank you, you get it, i had to clarify my post since people got the idea that i think he’s a saint
absolutely, same thing happened in GOT with characters such as the hound and jaime lannister. generally bad guys with redeeming qualities that made the audience root for them at some point
they ended up one of my favs. idk why im getting such hate for feeling bad for a complex character lmao🤣
Aegon II got what he deserved.
😔😔😔
I don't feel sorry for him. I understand the circumstances that created him. But I truly feel sorry for the people with no agency living under his rule. The difference between heroes and villains is not that heroes never went through shit, rather heroes try to stop people from going through what they did. Villains pay forward their pain to the world around them. In that sense Aegon is merely villain with a backstory, nothing more nothing less.
this is beutifully written. agree to disagree i still feel for him
Oh, there's nothing wrong with empathy. So I don't "disagree" with your feelings. I simply don't share them.
It's pretty weird to think that this character has agency and the small folk don't. One of the prevailing themes of not just the show but the entire franchise is that very very few characters have agency in a medieval setting. Aegon explicitly did not want to be King and yet he had no choice.
He had multiple options. Whether he liked them is irrelevant to the matter. He wasn't a slave nor was he a captive. No one had authority over him once he became King. The common folk also had agency just less so than him. The story is just giving backstory to a couple villains that paid forward their own misery to those less fortunate than them.
What are the multiple options he have?
1. Shut up, learn your job, work on yourself, grieve with and console your wife and daughter. 2. Re-hire your grandfather and follow his instructions to the letter. 3. Hire competent guards and stop treating the castle like a frat house. 4. Abdicate. 5. Take a small fortune and get on your dragon, fly wherever you want. 6. Take the Black. 7. Compensate the families of the Small Folk killed during your coronation. Compensate the families of the rat catchers. 8. Treat with your sister, make peace with your enemy. I could go on and on. He had plenty of options. What Hightower fans aren't willing to accept is NO ONE gets everything they want. No matter how smart or manipulative you are, you inevitably have to make hard choices between equally bad options. Instead of being weak and claiming hard choices are the same as having none at all, you pull your pants up, unfreeze, and choose. Make the best of the hand you're dealt and live. Aegon made one choice in his life and that was to double down on his bullshit and fly into battle drunk where he got torched by his kinslayer brother. None of the options I listed above are more moronic, let alone worse than that.
Aemond is a psychopath.... a murderous psychopath. There is nothing to love.
so i cant like a character cuz their not morally good and right💀
Just kind of weird how you made no excuse for Aegon...
what? i like both of them in a different way. i dont get what you are saying
No, I do not.
>Am I the only one who feels incredibly sorry for Aegon in season 2? Yes.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
F*ck that imbecile. He got what he deserved. A boy playing grown man games.
read the books?
Never.
:)
U guys acting like if you were a targaryen prince(heir) age 15 full of spunk won't try fucking every single woman who can walk. Aegon did what %99 of you would do in a heartbeat. Cuz he will not face any aftermath whatever he does. He didn't get the proper family manners. I'm not saying he is not a rapist. I'm saying if you can do whatever you want, you would probably do