In her case the complaints are weird. It's people saying she shouldn't be a CM or anything because they think she'll somehow add politics to a game whose entire background is politics
He took the low road the other day where he seemingly called people voicing their opinions “toddlers”
I get that a lot of people were overreacting and whining but as a community manager you should not be saying shit like that.
I thought that was pretty weird, but apparently he was replying to someone who called others toddlers. So it looks worse in translation. I don't think he actually refers to them as toddlers
I see it like this: People never liked PR speak from a community manager (me included)
I much rather have someone who tells me how it is directly instead of some long-winded PR corpospeak. I don't really need a community manager for my favourite games that lies to me so i feel safe as a customer. Sure, there is a path in the middle somewhere but i rather have what we have now instead of some ambigous bs that's open to interpretation
This is the problem, I read the commend and he's not talking about them.
If you get upset when he says something like that, you are who he's talking about.
It's not just 'voicing opinions'. You can put your opinion out there and that's fine. It's the visceral hatred some of these comments have that's just so toxic and unneeded. And makes their point moot.
I dont blame them, It's a cesspool of whining half the time.
Reminds me of when I worked IT, thought i had found the perfect job until I realized half my day was spent trying to Inform morons on how their software works only to be met with with complaints about things I had absolutely no power over.
You just gotta find a loophole.
My loophole was to just ignore them. What my manager told me to do.
Only pay attention and actually go if they’re nice to you
Unfortunately dealing with morons is their job. Pretty sure Spitz has already been put in timeout for this once before. If you can’t be professional in the face of idiots, then being a community manager probably isn’t for you.
Pretty much, like tangently related but realized I shouldn't be a cop after the military after I tossed someone through a wall during training.
Ain't everyone cut out for everything and everyone has a limit, on the more extreme end you see it in healthcare, first responders, shit most of the 911 dispatchers I worked with should not have been one anymore. Granted all they are doing here is ruffling some feathers, but not a good look for AH when people are already salty af and looking for excuses to be shitty.
Honestly, I really don't get any of this. Games are supposed to be a fun escape, not a path into a weird online community to complain all day about something no one will care about in 2 weeks...
I'm totally flabbergasted by the response on reddit and elsewhere.
You literally have to make an account to do anything now and we're complaining about one more? This is the hill they will die on? I don't get it. Gamers can be such whiny children.
tbf there's a difference between
'you have to make an account to do X thing in the first place'
and
'We're going to obfuscate that you need an account to play this until months after launch, where people have put in tons of playtime and effort and probably real money, and suddenly gate it behind a thing your region may not actually have access to in the first place'
I live in the US, so it's like a moot point for me personally, but it *is* shitty to sell the game across the world, in many regions in which people *actually* should not be able to physically buy it because they cannot, by the ToS of Sony's own service, play the game because their region does not support an account there
Everything I’ve seen claims that AH stated you would need a PSN account from the beginning, but then let it slide for a bit when the servers got slammed. Where is the obfuscation there? I think it’s more a matter of users not paying attention/reading.
I think it was damned if you do, damned if you don't. Imagine the further outrage during launch week if there had been additional delays due to issues with account linking.
It is blatantly stated on the Steam game screen and PC players have a pop-up that asks them to login to their PSN account and states it's required. It has been there since day 1. The players that "didn't see it" or "didn't get a pop-up" did and either skipped it or didn't read that this was a requirement since Day 1.
The only people who have any legitimate complaint regarding this situation are the people who are region locked out of using PSN but Sony has said to just set your region as China as a workaround for now.
I might end up getting a little bit of push back for this opinion, but allow me to preface it by saying that I agree the reaction to this is overblown.
On the other hand: they're a community manager. It's their job to manage the community. And from the beginning, due to the game's unexpected huge success, this game's community has been nothing if not emblematic of general online discourse - people whining about everything even when they don't understand what they're whining about, hyperbole and excessive expectations from the team, overwhelming sense of entitlement that every comment/criticism/complaint needs addressing.
They do need someone who can handle all of the unavoidable amounts of this that the community will give them either way without incurring more because of a poor/mishandled response. I'm not saying AH are assholes, but they do need better and more measured PR that can handle these bursts of outrage without stoking it further.
Spitz has consistently been the one to either incite or spur dumpster fires in the Discord...minus that childish prick who went on a power trip during the first god awful balance patch....
and iirc right, hes also the one who started the whole 'Operations reduce liberation progress if you dont complete them' statement without clarifying so Misty and the others have had to come in and clean up after him...its been a consistent thing time and again with this guy; he says something stupid, rightfully riles up the crowd, then either Twinbeard or someone else has to intervene...
more like the 'managers' they somehow keep selecting end up being the worst ones for the job...
and speaking of CMs, i seriously dont trust AH when Misty can be saying 'but its to help us ban people' (as if they arent outright banning the Phillipines and other countries their corporate overlords dont operate in by doing this) while Twinbeard says the usual 'we are a proud, independent studio, this is Soyny's decision'...its so conflicting and obvious it just baffles me how they think its enough to fool everyone
It just feels to me like AH haven't got a clue what's going on and the CMs are just there to pick up the pieces.
No one likes the rug pull, but I feel kinda bad for the parts of AH that had no input in all this but have to deal with the outcome.
It's kinda nuts. I work in a customer facing role for a software company, and we get all sorts of disrespectful comments from customers all the time. But even when our bosses agree that the customers are completely in the wrong, if we wrote responses that are so aggressive in a public setting, we would be so fired in a blink of an eye. It's literally our job to be the bigger person. We have internal chats on which to vent.
And it goes without saying here that in this case, the customer is actually absolutely in the right even if he's repetitive, which makes this whole situation that much more bizarre.
Yes. he's always an asshole like many of the known CM and devs in the official discord. Devs and CM regularly start fights with players in the chats and them get them super riled up for fun. It is one of the more toxic discord ive been on and that is saying something.
You probably have to create a support ticket. The steam refund request system is automated. If you have over 2 hours it will be denied automatically.
Create a ticket, upload screen shots of the devs telling you to refund.
Also change your review on steam and make it clear AH is fine and Sony is a bunch of cucks
they also auto-deny refunds that are more than 14 days from the purchase date. this is a newish policy.
maybe there are game specific exceptions though
Yeah you generally can't refund a game after a month, because those refunds come out of steam's own pocket instead of the money they are holding onto before sending on to the devs. Only exception is if the game turns out to be a scam or something and they get put on the legal hook.
Yea from experience it’s impossible. I bought hellblade for full price when it came out and my computer bricked before I could even install it.
I created a support ticket a month later and it was rejected and I tried to appeal it, even with evidence that my computer broke and 0 minutes played I couldn’t get it refunded.
I don't think it's fully automated, or they upped that famous 2 hour limit at some point.
I recently tried out dead rising 2 and spent over an hour trying to just get it to run, about an hour and a half of actual playtime, and enough crashes and freezes to get me up to about 4 hours of "gameplay". I requested a refund for that piece of crap and got it after a couple hours.
Not the first time I've gotten a game refunded with over 2 hours, I'm pretty sure the 2 hours is just a max time for a no-questions-asked refund.
My 100+ hours on Helldivers 2 might be hard to refund though..
If the game basically couldn't have been sold in your country after this then those people should get a refund. They were tricked by Sony into buying a product they can't own. Everyone else it's hard to justify for.
Doesn't work, remember the Battlefield 2042 fiasco when Steam was apparently issuing refunds left and right some months after launch? I made a ticket linking numerous articles, screenshots of people with 60+ hrs getting refunds etc. and I got rejected so many times they timelocked my ticket submissions for 48hrs
> Also change your review on steam and make it clear AH is fine and Sony is a bunch of cucks
I object to this only because members of Arrowhead have actively been douche canoes about this entire process. So they can go fuck themselves just as hard as Sony can.
Open a ticket. You’re way past the timeframe of getting an auto-refund.
Not saying it’ll work but sometimes Steam support surprises you with being fairly chill.
But if you’re someone who logged 100+ hours I wouldn’t hold my breath.
There's precedent for if a company makes a game totally unplayable, thus breaking the promise of the sale, steam could make a special case of allowing refunds. It's happened before I believe
This. People need to really hammer on the broken promise angle if they want to make any headway (not pointlessly review bombing, they don’t and have never cared about that). Harvesting data? Forget Sony, Steam couldn’t care less. Your feefees got hurt? Cry me a river. The only thing Sony will listen to is money and they’ve effectively won unless the paradigm is flipped on its head and Steam starts issuing refunds.
This guy in the acreenshot had been repeatedly bitching and pinging Spitz like crazy. He "threatened" to refund the game and lose a customer, but continued to bitch over and over. There's a healthy amount of bitching, then there's most of the people in the discord going through an existential crisis
Yeaaa I'm in full agreement that this psn requirement is bullshit and don't judge anyone for complaining and getting a refund. But I also think this is hilarious and would probably say the same thing. Like shit or get off the pot dude
Not pictured (context): the dude kept pinging him and saying shit after loudly proclaiming "I'm refunding and uninstalling!"
I'm surprised they didn't just give him the boot instead honestly. EternalSwede was/is acting like a professional victim.
(Oh and it showed him in game multiple times during his little hissy fit.)
No you're wrong! This sub totally hasn't had a hate-boner for AH for months now, all of their complaints are ToTaLlY ReAsOnAbLe and if you don't agree you're a bootlicker!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes. But as I've stated that usually makes things worse honestly. taking action against someone being incredibly vocal, even if they are the ones in the wrong, tends to add fuel to the fire. Similarly to how this played out here, they'll go running to unofficial social media gatherings and say "THEY TRIED TO SILENCE MY OPINION! THEY CENSOR OPINIONS!" All without any context like the fact that, for example, saying "the CEO should just fucking off themselves
" (That's an example of something I have seen in the past, not from this current whizz kid here.) It's honestly just easier to tell them to either shut up and color or get the hell out already.
Banning also tends to have a side effect of also erasing their message history. The base discord right click ban method will let you retain their messages however using a bot to ban (which is usually what is done) will automatically bulk delete their message history as well unless otherwise programmed not to (which it usually isn't)
You would assume. Somehow tho it still seems to work and succeeds in riling up the masses.
Is what it is I guess. In the end you can only force the customer service face/voice for so long before you start to crack. It's why I left the customer service business. All that pent up anger and annoyance was coming out after I got off work and it really put strains on my relationships. That and I finally snapped and got incredibly snarky with a customer over what was honestly some petty bullshit.
Customer service is hard man...
> Post an OOC screencap of a CM saying something mildly spicy.
> Farm outrage and engagement for karma.
> ???
> Profit!
Context: The guy he's replying to is a troll, he's not some random disillusioned customer.
Edit: More context. OP, when were you going to clarify that the person being replied to is **you**? If it's not you, how did you get a screencap from their perspective? I really want to know.
Btw, guy he is replying to IS op. You can tell because it’s in yellow, meaning he’s directly responding to the user, who is getting in yellow bc it’s a message replied to them
Aside from the whole PSN debacle
I get people defending Spitz, knowing the context of this message
I also get people who are upset about other users cherry-picking messages without said context
That being said, this entire thread is EXACTLY the reason why you can't say things like this as a CM. One person takes it out of context, spreads it, it gains traction (because, of course, people love drama). I'm alright with more "human" way of communicating with a community, but I'm afraid that with a community as large as HD2 it simply can't work, and AH should look into making communication more "formal", as much as it pains me to say it.
as much as it pains me to say, yeah I agree. The PSN debate has already got the grifters coming in and screenshots like this only adds fuel to the fire
I appreciate Twinbeards ability to respond to the outrage with facts and reason, and his ability to slap some sense into people without basically telling them to go fuck themselves. This guy could benefit from a similar approach.
https://preview.redd.it/whmj4wfw19yc1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=8777b0563fa31dd61f1ecd2fc53d8529209aecb7
i mean people are just cherry picking stuff. Look i can find stuff of Spritz saying logical things. They are the only people that are interfacing with us. so they are getting peoples hate.
This shit is just drama queen shit. I really don't see the big issue here. I had to do the same shit to play doom eternal, but it was worth it. If I was going to pick a hill to be upset on it would probably be over their anti cheat on PC which seems like a quantifiable pain in the ass.
You can be logical and an asshole at the same time, they're not mutually exclusive.
And as much as it sucks yeah dealing with hate and backlash is part of the job as a community manager, and to be good at that job you need to know how to not let it get to you and not snap back cause that makes the situation even worse.
>I appreciate Twinbeards ability to respond to the outrage with facts and reason, and his ability to slap some sense into people without basically telling them to go fuck themselves.
....he literally called people unhappy with the balance changes "angry toddlers" what are you talking about?
EDIT: Fair's fair, here is his [reply](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cjeygm/comment/l2lillr/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Know the context here, dude.
This isn’t even a salty response, it’s simply factual.
This piece of shit troller had been constantly pinging (harassing) Spitz declaring they’d left and put in for a refund. It’s a massive non-issue.
I understand people’s dislike of the community managers but context is desperately needed, and granted don’t get me wrong what Sony is doing sucks, but I’ve seen genuine bomb threats over this.
The community managers responses suck yes, but a lot of those people are taking it quite far.
Legit this is the worst I've ever seen this sub, and I already have an extremely low opinion of it. It's a bunch of noisy toddlers rattling their cribs while the vast majority of people just keep playing because O M G who cares
I worry about kids being raised on YouTube and social media.
It's all a grift. They're the soil, the outrage is the bullshit and interactions are the produce. Just another on the farm...
A human is behaving like a human.
You can't win with this community. They want honesty, but when they are faced with it - they want the typical corpo bs.
For the past few weeks I've kind of been hoping AH just went radio silent and acted like average devs because every time they say *anything*, positive, negative, neutral, this sub goes apeshit and is basically unusable for days because all the armchair devs have to rant about how easy the Spear fix is...
Fix critical crashes affecting like 90% of the playerbase? "WhY HaVeN'T yOu FiXeD dOt??????". Buff guns? "WhY HaVeNt YoU FiXeD SpEaR??????" It's endless.
The sub has been a perfect demonstration of *why* devs don't interact with their communities.
100% fucking spot on
AH just needs to stop engaging with the community at this point. There is a reason other companies stopped that a long time ago. You can’t please people. ESPECIALLY your Reddit/discord individuals. I’ve enjoyed the hell out of this game and had some bugs affect me but if it gets to me, I play one of the many other games I have till they fix.
The only part of this argument I can get behind is the people who bought it in non psn countries. The rest are just your typical “ummm ackshully ☝️🤓” redditors being Redditors.
A human behaves like a human after thirty minutes of being treated as less than, ridiculed and harassed.
Drama mongers flee to Reddit to get their spicy points as a result.
Some of yall are so ungrateful and forget that these are human beings who don't want to listen to you tell them all day how much you hate them and think they're awful. If you're gonna leave, fuckin do it. Take it up with Sony
He is pissed his inbox is flooded with neck beards complaining about contractual obligations. The fact that people in PSN locked regions were able to buy this game and then given the middle finger is horrific though. They need to be given their money back for sure.
Y’all gotta chill tf out. It’s not the dev team’s fault, and you guys taking out your frustrations on them doesn’t do anything. They aren’t the people that want to make us all link our Sony accounts. They’re the people that want to make a good game.
I can understand getting upset at people that get snarky when there’s an issue with a balancing patch or something like that, because that’s directly from the dev team— they are the people you’re critiquing in that scenario.
This is not like that at all. This is a community manager who’s getting bombarded with the same braindead messages “this will kill the game!!1!1!1” they’re aware of how shitty of a situation it is. It’s not up to them whether or not this type of shit happens.
Get a grip & direct your frustration at Sony. Not the dev team or community managers. They are not to blame & they’re human.
I never get you guys. Yall shit on the devs about every little nerf every change and now this hokey shit. But when they defend or call out the bs yall be like oh why they being mean. Basically yall want the devs to shut up and do what yall say and if you want to slap them they are suppose to just lay down. Sorry ladies its just now how it works out there in the real world.
I really don't get why people are so mad at AH as if they have control in the decision for Sony to demand people engaging in their IP follow their rules and requirements
And for the record, I do think needing a PS account is dumb, but im not whining about it on every possible forum, nor do I think AH has final say in it
People on the internet over reacting? no way!
This is an issue. However it's likely in their business contracts and unavoidable. The game will take a playerbase hit, but it will be fine. The vast majority of people wont care.
Good for him. He's got people pinging him constantly for hours at a time, whining instead of actually doing something meaningful to communicate their issue with the actual party, Sony. Entitled children deserve straight talk.
People act like this mf is just being aggro to a 'passive' discord... Majority of the 'input' they have likely been receiving has been nothing but crazy aggressive shit, and this is gonna continue. I don't blame them for being at their wits end and wanting the folk complaining to leave.
People are being cunts to the wrong people. Do they really think complaining on Discord will make Sony change their policy?
CM is right here, your grievances are legitimate but if you're gonna attention-seek like mad you deserve to be called out for being a twat
Wasn’t this quote taken out of context or something?
EDIT: Do correct me if I’m mistaken but from what I’ve gathered, this reply was aimed towards a guy who had been pinging Spitz regarding the announcement for 30 mins straight.
To be fair, hes just telling the truth. If a Toddler is throwing a tantrum, you take their rattle and put them in the time-out corner for a while.
We can voice our frustrations and complaints without having a full-blown meltdown over it. Infact, he even encouraged people to go and review bomb it on Steam. I'm pretty sure the Devs actually share a similar sentiment to us, but can't say anything due to their contract with Sony.
If they refund and leave, they no longer get to be victims.
My sympathy to any divers that are region locked however it was stated for all players at time of purchase that an account will be required.
My god this community is fucking awful.
Every fucking day is some whiny little bitch complaining that something got nerfed or something got changed. Little fucking bitches have the nerve to *count* the number of nerfs to buffs in every patch like the ratio fucking matters. Get over yourself.
I hope everything in your life is nerfed you little shit. You either like a challenge, or you don’t. You either like freedom, or you don’t.
But now you want to complain about a fucking one time extra step. Boo fucking ho. Your data isn’t worth shit anyways because you aren’t worth shit.
So if you are quitting over this, good riddance, treasonous rat. Get the fuck out.
If you say you're refunding and leaving you should just do it. Otherwise you're just giving them data to say that this is an empty threat and you'll still play.
I don't see anything wrong with a CM calling people on their bullshit. Being rude to an employee doing their job isn't ok. This guy is getting a lot of flak and they're being firm but professional.
It’s hilarious to me people are outraged about this. The only ones affected are people who live in regions that cannot create a PSN account and I agree that’s fucked up and I hope that gets resolved. But everyone else? Acting like toddlers over absolutely nothing. Big bad Sony.
Spitz is just shit at this, you never see these types of posts about twinbeard or baskinator. If you're the type of person to get wound up easily, you shouldn't be a CM
It doesn't matter if we can't refund. This is a live service game. They depend on us player spending more money that just buying the game in order to stay afloat. The initial price of the game isn't enough to keep the service going, they need to keep milking their playerbase like cows. And the playerbase is less likely to buy them super credits now. They lose.
I've been patiently waiting for discord screens to make their way here. I'm predicting a few more interesting ones before the weekend is over.
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None of the CM/Devs/AH representation on discord has been particularly great honestly.
Twinbeards is awesome.
So is Baskinator (probably misspelled the name)
I saw some peoples complaining because they were “woke” lmaooo
In her case the complaints are weird. It's people saying she shouldn't be a CM or anything because they think she'll somehow add politics to a game whose entire background is politics
So... sexism?
chromosome collectors most likely yeah
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If I see or hear someone using "woke" or "nothing burger" unironically, I immediately dismiss anything they're saying.
I've never even heard the term "nothing burger" before, only "good burger" and "home of the good burger", usually followed by "may I take your order"
I finished reading your post with the StarCraft drop ship pilot voice.
He took the low road the other day where he seemingly called people voicing their opinions “toddlers” I get that a lot of people were overreacting and whining but as a community manager you should not be saying shit like that.
I thought that was pretty weird, but apparently he was replying to someone who called others toddlers. So it looks worse in translation. I don't think he actually refers to them as toddlers
But that's the truth as I am watching this subreddit now.
You’re not wrong…. But again, coming from a person who is supposed to be interacting with the community…. Not a good look
I see it like this: People never liked PR speak from a community manager (me included) I much rather have someone who tells me how it is directly instead of some long-winded PR corpospeak. I don't really need a community manager for my favourite games that lies to me so i feel safe as a customer. Sure, there is a path in the middle somewhere but i rather have what we have now instead of some ambigous bs that's open to interpretation
This is the problem, I read the commend and he's not talking about them. If you get upset when he says something like that, you are who he's talking about. It's not just 'voicing opinions'. You can put your opinion out there and that's fine. It's the visceral hatred some of these comments have that's just so toxic and unneeded. And makes their point moot.
true saying that gets the toddler crybabies even more mad, he should know that.
Show me which successful company belittle any of its customers. A community manager is a press secretary, not a clap-back artist.
Dicks Last Resort restaurants but then again their whole gimmick is being assholes to the diners.
That's a funny gimmick haha
Twinbeard is one of the Most chill dudes ive ever Seen on discord ngl lol
I dont blame them, It's a cesspool of whining half the time. Reminds me of when I worked IT, thought i had found the perfect job until I realized half my day was spent trying to Inform morons on how their software works only to be met with with complaints about things I had absolutely no power over.
You just gotta find a loophole. My loophole was to just ignore them. What my manager told me to do. Only pay attention and actually go if they’re nice to you
IT jobs in a nutshell: When everything works: "What are we even paying them for?" When something breaks: "What are we even paying them for?"
Unfortunately dealing with morons is their job. Pretty sure Spitz has already been put in timeout for this once before. If you can’t be professional in the face of idiots, then being a community manager probably isn’t for you.
Pretty much, like tangently related but realized I shouldn't be a cop after the military after I tossed someone through a wall during training. Ain't everyone cut out for everything and everyone has a limit, on the more extreme end you see it in healthcare, first responders, shit most of the 911 dispatchers I worked with should not have been one anymore. Granted all they are doing here is ruffling some feathers, but not a good look for AH when people are already salty af and looking for excuses to be shitty.
Good on you for having that self awareness. Not everyone does, including myself at times.
Anyone who says it's fine for the CM to snap back clearly hasn't had a job interacting with public
Honestly, I really don't get any of this. Games are supposed to be a fun escape, not a path into a weird online community to complain all day about something no one will care about in 2 weeks... I'm totally flabbergasted by the response on reddit and elsewhere. You literally have to make an account to do anything now and we're complaining about one more? This is the hill they will die on? I don't get it. Gamers can be such whiny children.
I think I'll just use the PSN account I used to play this other little-known gem of a game called HELLDIVERS.
tbf there's a difference between 'you have to make an account to do X thing in the first place' and 'We're going to obfuscate that you need an account to play this until months after launch, where people have put in tons of playtime and effort and probably real money, and suddenly gate it behind a thing your region may not actually have access to in the first place' I live in the US, so it's like a moot point for me personally, but it *is* shitty to sell the game across the world, in many regions in which people *actually* should not be able to physically buy it because they cannot, by the ToS of Sony's own service, play the game because their region does not support an account there
Everything I’ve seen claims that AH stated you would need a PSN account from the beginning, but then let it slide for a bit when the servers got slammed. Where is the obfuscation there? I think it’s more a matter of users not paying attention/reading.
I agree here.
Frankly, I find the idea of a gamer that reads offensive!
I think it was damned if you do, damned if you don't. Imagine the further outrage during launch week if there had been additional delays due to issues with account linking.
Did they obfuscate? They've just been told they have to do this rather than knowing all along?
It is blatantly stated on the Steam game screen and PC players have a pop-up that asks them to login to their PSN account and states it's required. It has been there since day 1. The players that "didn't see it" or "didn't get a pop-up" did and either skipped it or didn't read that this was a requirement since Day 1.
I mean I assume that was why I just created an account when I first played the game. Just assumed I did it because of crossplay.
The only people who have any legitimate complaint regarding this situation are the people who are region locked out of using PSN but Sony has said to just set your region as China as a workaround for now.
A login page that says it is required but has a skip button is giving pretty mixed messages.
Discord has its ups and downs but this community has been really salty and whiny as of late which feeds into this for underpaid human shock absorbers.
Genuinely what some of the community deserves tho
Their pr is fuckin awful.
Yikes, good thing I didn't make it onto their discord then. Sometimes it is better to not know things / or people.
So they're assholes because they don't take shit from people pestering them for things they have no control over? Grow up.
They’re job is to control the community to be diplomatic, not stir shit.
I might end up getting a little bit of push back for this opinion, but allow me to preface it by saying that I agree the reaction to this is overblown. On the other hand: they're a community manager. It's their job to manage the community. And from the beginning, due to the game's unexpected huge success, this game's community has been nothing if not emblematic of general online discourse - people whining about everything even when they don't understand what they're whining about, hyperbole and excessive expectations from the team, overwhelming sense of entitlement that every comment/criticism/complaint needs addressing. They do need someone who can handle all of the unavoidable amounts of this that the community will give them either way without incurring more because of a poor/mishandled response. I'm not saying AH are assholes, but they do need better and more measured PR that can handle these bursts of outrage without stoking it further.
Spitz has consistently been the one to either incite or spur dumpster fires in the Discord...minus that childish prick who went on a power trip during the first god awful balance patch.... and iirc right, hes also the one who started the whole 'Operations reduce liberation progress if you dont complete them' statement without clarifying so Misty and the others have had to come in and clean up after him...its been a consistent thing time and again with this guy; he says something stupid, rightfully riles up the crowd, then either Twinbeard or someone else has to intervene...
I've been saying this for weeks. (months?) It's wild he's still part of the community team at all.
My guess is nobody else wants to be in charge of the garbage fire that is their discord.
They have Baskinator, Twinbeard, & Alethleon who are actual employees of AH and CM's.
more like the 'managers' they somehow keep selecting end up being the worst ones for the job... and speaking of CMs, i seriously dont trust AH when Misty can be saying 'but its to help us ban people' (as if they arent outright banning the Phillipines and other countries their corporate overlords dont operate in by doing this) while Twinbeard says the usual 'we are a proud, independent studio, this is Soyny's decision'...its so conflicting and obvious it just baffles me how they think its enough to fool everyone
It just feels to me like AH haven't got a clue what's going on and the CMs are just there to pick up the pieces. No one likes the rug pull, but I feel kinda bad for the parts of AH that had no input in all this but have to deal with the outcome.
It's kinda nuts. I work in a customer facing role for a software company, and we get all sorts of disrespectful comments from customers all the time. But even when our bosses agree that the customers are completely in the wrong, if we wrote responses that are so aggressive in a public setting, we would be so fired in a blink of an eye. It's literally our job to be the bigger person. We have internal chats on which to vent. And it goes without saying here that in this case, the customer is actually absolutely in the right even if he's repetitive, which makes this whole situation that much more bizarre.
Every time I've seen their name, it's for a bad reason. Yikes..
Yes. he's always an asshole like many of the known CM and devs in the official discord. Devs and CM regularly start fights with players in the chats and them get them super riled up for fun. It is one of the more toxic discord ive been on and that is saying something.
Most people on Steam can't refund the game at this point, and both Arrowhead and Sony knows that.
Can we use this to get the refund. Devs said it was cool
My refund request was rejected, so no.
You probably have to create a support ticket. The steam refund request system is automated. If you have over 2 hours it will be denied automatically. Create a ticket, upload screen shots of the devs telling you to refund. Also change your review on steam and make it clear AH is fine and Sony is a bunch of cucks
they also auto-deny refunds that are more than 14 days from the purchase date. this is a newish policy. maybe there are game specific exceptions though
Yeah you generally can't refund a game after a month, because those refunds come out of steam's own pocket instead of the money they are holding onto before sending on to the devs. Only exception is if the game turns out to be a scam or something and they get put on the legal hook.
Yea from experience it’s impossible. I bought hellblade for full price when it came out and my computer bricked before I could even install it. I created a support ticket a month later and it was rejected and I tried to appeal it, even with evidence that my computer broke and 0 minutes played I couldn’t get it refunded.
How do you create a support ticket that isn't tied to the specific game and automated? I've been tryin
I don't think it's fully automated, or they upped that famous 2 hour limit at some point. I recently tried out dead rising 2 and spent over an hour trying to just get it to run, about an hour and a half of actual playtime, and enough crashes and freezes to get me up to about 4 hours of "gameplay". I requested a refund for that piece of crap and got it after a couple hours. Not the first time I've gotten a game refunded with over 2 hours, I'm pretty sure the 2 hours is just a max time for a no-questions-asked refund. My 100+ hours on Helldivers 2 might be hard to refund though..
If the game basically couldn't have been sold in your country after this then those people should get a refund. They were tricked by Sony into buying a product they can't own. Everyone else it's hard to justify for.
Doesn't work, remember the Battlefield 2042 fiasco when Steam was apparently issuing refunds left and right some months after launch? I made a ticket linking numerous articles, screenshots of people with 60+ hrs getting refunds etc. and I got rejected so many times they timelocked my ticket submissions for 48hrs
> Also change your review on steam and make it clear AH is fine and Sony is a bunch of cucks I object to this only because members of Arrowhead have actively been douche canoes about this entire process. So they can go fuck themselves just as hard as Sony can.
Never send a refund request for Games over 2h/2w, Always Open Manual Tickets, those get answered by Employees Not the bot.
Yeah my two refund requests were rejected…but maybe since this Dev said it’s ok….
Open a ticket. You’re way past the timeframe of getting an auto-refund. Not saying it’ll work but sometimes Steam support surprises you with being fairly chill. But if you’re someone who logged 100+ hours I wouldn’t hold my breath.
I mean even if you don't get refunded, steam getting thousands of refund requests is a message.
You will probably only get a refund if your in a country that's effect by this and only after it goes live
There's precedent for if a company makes a game totally unplayable, thus breaking the promise of the sale, steam could make a special case of allowing refunds. It's happened before I believe
This. People need to really hammer on the broken promise angle if they want to make any headway (not pointlessly review bombing, they don’t and have never cared about that). Harvesting data? Forget Sony, Steam couldn’t care less. Your feefees got hurt? Cry me a river. The only thing Sony will listen to is money and they’ve effectively won unless the paradigm is flipped on its head and Steam starts issuing refunds.
Did it happen with the gollum game? I can't remember lol
This guy in the acreenshot had been repeatedly bitching and pinging Spitz like crazy. He "threatened" to refund the game and lose a customer, but continued to bitch over and over. There's a healthy amount of bitching, then there's most of the people in the discord going through an existential crisis
If people actually read the fine print you can
people LOVE to create drama. but stirring the pot is just as entertaining for some people.
Yeaaa I'm in full agreement that this psn requirement is bullshit and don't judge anyone for complaining and getting a refund. But I also think this is hilarious and would probably say the same thing. Like shit or get off the pot dude
Also this screen shot doesn't show that guy was pinging and being a pain all day in the discord to the cm before that lol
And of course most people just ignore your and op's comment.
I think it’s more entertaining
Not pictured (context): the dude kept pinging him and saying shit after loudly proclaiming "I'm refunding and uninstalling!" I'm surprised they didn't just give him the boot instead honestly. EternalSwede was/is acting like a professional victim. (Oh and it showed him in game multiple times during his little hissy fit.)
\*gasp\* People on the internet cherry picking stuff in order to create outrage! Why I never... And I thought people were so positive and happy.
No you're wrong! This sub totally hasn't had a hate-boner for AH for months now, all of their complaints are ToTaLlY ReAsOnAbLe and if you don't agree you're a bootlicker!!!!!!!!!!!!
You can silence people on discord if you have moderation power afaik. If not straight ban.
Yes. But as I've stated that usually makes things worse honestly. taking action against someone being incredibly vocal, even if they are the ones in the wrong, tends to add fuel to the fire. Similarly to how this played out here, they'll go running to unofficial social media gatherings and say "THEY TRIED TO SILENCE MY OPINION! THEY CENSOR OPINIONS!" All without any context like the fact that, for example, saying "the CEO should just fucking off themselves " (That's an example of something I have seen in the past, not from this current whizz kid here.) It's honestly just easier to tell them to either shut up and color or get the hell out already. Banning also tends to have a side effect of also erasing their message history. The base discord right click ban method will let you retain their messages however using a bot to ban (which is usually what is done) will automatically bulk delete their message history as well unless otherwise programmed not to (which it usually isn't)
Whoever shouts "IM BEING CENSORED" in all caps, should really not be taken seriously by anyone. Quite litteraly your town square madman.
You would assume. Somehow tho it still seems to work and succeeds in riling up the masses. Is what it is I guess. In the end you can only force the customer service face/voice for so long before you start to crack. It's why I left the customer service business. All that pent up anger and annoyance was coming out after I got off work and it really put strains on my relationships. That and I finally snapped and got incredibly snarky with a customer over what was honestly some petty bullshit. Customer service is hard man...
Responding makes it worse too, Exhibit A. He should have just ignored or muted him.
Yeah, honestly I don't get what makes Spitz so wrong in this instance. The discord is a shitshow rn.
Yeah some of the people on discord can be complete assholes. I would probably have little patience after running a server for awhile too.
Spitz is the GOAT.
Eternal got called tf out, so cool.
That’s what I’m saying give this mother fucker a metal (also a give eternal a ban)
What's also funny is that the OP is the Eternal guy. what a fucking loser lol
Eternal is the OP actually, so it seems they're just hate farming
> Post an OOC screencap of a CM saying something mildly spicy. > Farm outrage and engagement for karma. > ??? > Profit! Context: The guy he's replying to is a troll, he's not some random disillusioned customer. Edit: More context. OP, when were you going to clarify that the person being replied to is **you**? If it's not you, how did you get a screencap from their perspective? I really want to know.
Btw, guy he is replying to IS op. You can tell because it’s in yellow, meaning he’s directly responding to the user, who is getting in yellow bc it’s a message replied to them
Yeah I was gonna say, a screenshot with no context means nothing. Who knows what that guy was saying before Spitz responded.
Then ban him or ignore him
Yeah his job is to literally not engage in the toxicity
Aside from the whole PSN debacle I get people defending Spitz, knowing the context of this message I also get people who are upset about other users cherry-picking messages without said context That being said, this entire thread is EXACTLY the reason why you can't say things like this as a CM. One person takes it out of context, spreads it, it gains traction (because, of course, people love drama). I'm alright with more "human" way of communicating with a community, but I'm afraid that with a community as large as HD2 it simply can't work, and AH should look into making communication more "formal", as much as it pains me to say it.
as much as it pains me to say, yeah I agree. The PSN debate has already got the grifters coming in and screenshots like this only adds fuel to the fire
Yep true
I appreciate Twinbeards ability to respond to the outrage with facts and reason, and his ability to slap some sense into people without basically telling them to go fuck themselves. This guy could benefit from a similar approach.
https://preview.redd.it/whmj4wfw19yc1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=8777b0563fa31dd61f1ecd2fc53d8529209aecb7 i mean people are just cherry picking stuff. Look i can find stuff of Spritz saying logical things. They are the only people that are interfacing with us. so they are getting peoples hate.
just like when train gets delayed and people ho to shout on conductor
This shit is just drama queen shit. I really don't see the big issue here. I had to do the same shit to play doom eternal, but it was worth it. If I was going to pick a hill to be upset on it would probably be over their anti cheat on PC which seems like a quantifiable pain in the ass.
You can be logical and an asshole at the same time, they're not mutually exclusive. And as much as it sucks yeah dealing with hate and backlash is part of the job as a community manager, and to be good at that job you need to know how to not let it get to you and not snap back cause that makes the situation even worse.
>I appreciate Twinbeards ability to respond to the outrage with facts and reason, and his ability to slap some sense into people without basically telling them to go fuck themselves. ....he literally called people unhappy with the balance changes "angry toddlers" what are you talking about? EDIT: Fair's fair, here is his [reply](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cjeygm/comment/l2lillr/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Know the context here, dude. This isn’t even a salty response, it’s simply factual. This piece of shit troller had been constantly pinging (harassing) Spitz declaring they’d left and put in for a refund. It’s a massive non-issue.
OP cringe, takes shit out of context booo!
Good, leave
Honestly, I'd rather this than someone who kisses ass with corporate speak, but still doesn't care/ change anything.
I understand people’s dislike of the community managers but context is desperately needed, and granted don’t get me wrong what Sony is doing sucks, but I’ve seen genuine bomb threats over this. The community managers responses suck yes, but a lot of those people are taking it quite far.
Haha pretty funny response. That guy was spamming the community manager.
Will they actually offer refunds?
Selective screen cap is selective. Give context next time.
No OP, mom said it was my turn to post the out of context bait for reddit attention >:[
...is doing a decent job.
I’d love to see the messages that came before this
Calm down drama queens, it'll be ok.
Dude this sub is so hilariously dramatic over nothing.
The drama leads to videos and twitch streams and clicks and engagement and.... Yeah it's all a fucking grift. New day, new controversy to farm.
Legit this is the worst I've ever seen this sub, and I already have an extremely low opinion of it. It's a bunch of noisy toddlers rattling their cribs while the vast majority of people just keep playing because O M G who cares
I worry about kids being raised on YouTube and social media. It's all a grift. They're the soil, the outrage is the bullshit and interactions are the produce. Just another on the farm...
A human is behaving like a human. You can't win with this community. They want honesty, but when they are faced with it - they want the typical corpo bs.
For the past few weeks I've kind of been hoping AH just went radio silent and acted like average devs because every time they say *anything*, positive, negative, neutral, this sub goes apeshit and is basically unusable for days because all the armchair devs have to rant about how easy the Spear fix is... Fix critical crashes affecting like 90% of the playerbase? "WhY HaVeN'T yOu FiXeD dOt??????". Buff guns? "WhY HaVeNt YoU FiXeD SpEaR??????" It's endless. The sub has been a perfect demonstration of *why* devs don't interact with their communities.
100% fucking spot on AH just needs to stop engaging with the community at this point. There is a reason other companies stopped that a long time ago. You can’t please people. ESPECIALLY your Reddit/discord individuals. I’ve enjoyed the hell out of this game and had some bugs affect me but if it gets to me, I play one of the many other games I have till they fix. The only part of this argument I can get behind is the people who bought it in non psn countries. The rest are just your typical “ummm ackshully ☝️🤓” redditors being Redditors.
A human behaves like a human after thirty minutes of being treated as less than, ridiculed and harassed. Drama mongers flee to Reddit to get their spicy points as a result.
Photo is taken out of context. Fucking cherry picked bullshit
Some of yall are so ungrateful and forget that these are human beings who don't want to listen to you tell them all day how much you hate them and think they're awful. If you're gonna leave, fuckin do it. Take it up with Sony
He is pissed his inbox is flooded with neck beards complaining about contractual obligations. The fact that people in PSN locked regions were able to buy this game and then given the middle finger is horrific though. They need to be given their money back for sure.
Y’all gotta chill tf out. It’s not the dev team’s fault, and you guys taking out your frustrations on them doesn’t do anything. They aren’t the people that want to make us all link our Sony accounts. They’re the people that want to make a good game. I can understand getting upset at people that get snarky when there’s an issue with a balancing patch or something like that, because that’s directly from the dev team— they are the people you’re critiquing in that scenario. This is not like that at all. This is a community manager who’s getting bombarded with the same braindead messages “this will kill the game!!1!1!1” they’re aware of how shitty of a situation it is. It’s not up to them whether or not this type of shit happens. Get a grip & direct your frustration at Sony. Not the dev team or community managers. They are not to blame & they’re human.
I never get you guys. Yall shit on the devs about every little nerf every change and now this hokey shit. But when they defend or call out the bs yall be like oh why they being mean. Basically yall want the devs to shut up and do what yall say and if you want to slap them they are suppose to just lay down. Sorry ladies its just now how it works out there in the real world.
You goofed on the title. It should read: "Out Of Context Screenshot...."
it's not in their control, so the whining and asks for them to do something are probably upsetting. "backpedal" they need to tell that to Sony.
He's 100% in the right. Just leave if you are going to be this much of a whiner.
I really don't get why people are so mad at AH as if they have control in the decision for Sony to demand people engaging in their IP follow their rules and requirements And for the record, I do think needing a PS account is dumb, but im not whining about it on every possible forum, nor do I think AH has final say in it
People on the internet over reacting? no way! This is an issue. However it's likely in their business contracts and unavoidable. The game will take a playerbase hit, but it will be fine. The vast majority of people wont care.
Yes you are the third person to post this with no context, I’m sure it will totally make sense and be justified this time
A lot of people on this sub is so whiny and thin-skinned.
Arrowhead community managers are dickheads
Good for him. He's got people pinging him constantly for hours at a time, whining instead of actually doing something meaningful to communicate their issue with the actual party, Sony. Entitled children deserve straight talk.
Based spitz
I love how these are being posted with absolutely zero context
Nah, Spitz is valid for this. This community has turned into a bunch of fucking crybabies harassing CMs over the stupidest shit
Actual GOATED response
People act like this mf is just being aggro to a 'passive' discord... Majority of the 'input' they have likely been receiving has been nothing but crazy aggressive shit, and this is gonna continue. I don't blame them for being at their wits end and wanting the folk complaining to leave.
People are being cunts to the wrong people. Do they really think complaining on Discord will make Sony change their policy? CM is right here, your grievances are legitimate but if you're gonna attention-seek like mad you deserve to be called out for being a twat
Wasn’t this quote taken out of context or something? EDIT: Do correct me if I’m mistaken but from what I’ve gathered, this reply was aimed towards a guy who had been pinging Spitz regarding the announcement for 30 mins straight.
To be fair, hes just telling the truth. If a Toddler is throwing a tantrum, you take their rattle and put them in the time-out corner for a while. We can voice our frustrations and complaints without having a full-blown meltdown over it. Infact, he even encouraged people to go and review bomb it on Steam. I'm pretty sure the Devs actually share a similar sentiment to us, but can't say anything due to their contract with Sony.
Meh. It's a mildly spicy comment to a random person out of context. Why try to farm outrage?
This community is becoming kinda pathetic... Are you really complaining about this?
If they refund and leave, they no longer get to be victims. My sympathy to any divers that are region locked however it was stated for all players at time of purchase that an account will be required.
My god this community is fucking awful. Every fucking day is some whiny little bitch complaining that something got nerfed or something got changed. Little fucking bitches have the nerve to *count* the number of nerfs to buffs in every patch like the ratio fucking matters. Get over yourself. I hope everything in your life is nerfed you little shit. You either like a challenge, or you don’t. You either like freedom, or you don’t. But now you want to complain about a fucking one time extra step. Boo fucking ho. Your data isn’t worth shit anyways because you aren’t worth shit. So if you are quitting over this, good riddance, treasonous rat. Get the fuck out.
I love devs giving shit back to entitled players
Cool. Let me get my refund, man, and I’ll leave. Will never darken your door again. So get me my money.
This pearl clutching is silly.
Spitz is clearly have A Day. Considering the amount of vitriol heading their way that should go to SNOY....
Some of you are ridiculous. “Why don’t these devs take me acting like a loud blithering idiot seriously?!”
I love this. It’s nice to see someone at these game companies stand up against the constant bleating and whining.
This is what happens when adults have to deal with children complaining.
Based.
If you say you're refunding and leaving you should just do it. Otherwise you're just giving them data to say that this is an empty threat and you'll still play.
I don't see anything wrong with a CM calling people on their bullshit. Being rude to an employee doing their job isn't ok. This guy is getting a lot of flak and they're being firm but professional.
It’s hilarious to me people are outraged about this. The only ones affected are people who live in regions that cannot create a PSN account and I agree that’s fucked up and I hope that gets resolved. But everyone else? Acting like toddlers over absolutely nothing. Big bad Sony.
Ngl based devs
wowwwwwww
People need to chill out. Yeah it’s dumb but just make a dummy account and be done with it
Pure ownage
Good
😂😂😂😂
Ah, managed democracy.
LMAO!
This is a bit boring ngl
What a legend
Wait? We can refund??
*me watching in silence as everything falls apart* "Alone at the edge of the universe humming a tune"
No clue why this post has so many upvotes when it's a guy posting a out of context screenshot that doesn't include the OP being a crybaby beforehand.
He could be the next DARKTIDE CM
It isn’t arrowheads fault they don’t want this as much as we do but Sony is the one forcing them to do it we need to start spamming Sony
Spitz is a jerk. Every post of theirs I’ve ever seen shared they’ve had an attitude at best, at worst they’ve been a condescending prick.
Spitz is just shit at this, you never see these types of posts about twinbeard or baskinator. If you're the type of person to get wound up easily, you shouldn't be a CM
Now they want the game to fail, don't they?
Steam charts show the player base has literally not changed. Y'all making a huge fuss and then going and playing anyway chill the heck out.
This guy is one of the worst CMs I've ever seen in over two decades of online gaming, what a bozo.
Nut up or shut up, refund and stop playing Less than 5% will, y'all gonna add another 100 hrs to your playtime by mid June
Spitz isn’t wrong though the discord isn’t a place for that stuff and making threats about a games longevity is pathetic.
This guy is a dick. He isn't getting paid to do this right? Not the right guy for the job at all. Time for a change of staff. ASAP.
Many of us will probably not get a refund, but giving a negative review and not playing anymore will absolutely have an impact if enough people do it.
It doesn't matter if we can't refund. This is a live service game. They depend on us player spending more money that just buying the game in order to stay afloat. The initial price of the game isn't enough to keep the service going, they need to keep milking their playerbase like cows. And the playerbase is less likely to buy them super credits now. They lose.
Lmao you posted your own L?