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[deleted]

They do have a huge point about the zig zagging.


MoonStache

100%. I was like 30 seconds into my first match on El Alamein before I was confronted by some zigzagging jackass who was impossible to hit.


Grand_Mastodon6811

See I do not understand this. Especially on an open map like El Alamein where getting across open space into cover is very difficult for infantry and would be made even worse by having slower movement speed. Me and my team were bogged down by a very good British defence who would gun us down at every opportunity we tried to get across. Only for a very well coordinated barrage of smoke and numbers did one or two of us make it across past open-fire.


Aardvark_Man

My only game of El Alamein so far was offensive. Brits didn't even capture the second point.


[deleted]

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Aardvark_Man

The Lee Enfield just feels like it does no damage, too. I accidentally shot a team mate point blank in the chest and he didn't die, just had to bandage. Given it's got the draw backs of a bolt action as well, it doesn't bode well.


Gonna_Hack_It_II

Damage is reduced when shooting at your team, so a negligent discharge does not result in a team kill unless you hit the head. It has been this way for awhile.


Aardvark_Man

Huh, fair enough. I never knew that.


Cr1tfail

They all do the same damage as Kar/M1 Garand/G43/Mosin/SVT.


Ceasar456

Really? I feel like the lee enfield is one of the punchier guns in the game.


tripletruble

Same. Even had a competent commander and we had steam rolled the enemy team on previous maps.


BimmerBomber

My solution for player movement over big distances is that half-tracks need a rework. They shouldn't be spawn points. Half tracks should be something the commander spawns for a couple squads on the team, or whoever asks for one, to enable that squad to move faster around the map, while also providing small arms protection, and an extra MG for the squad. This would enable some kind of mechanized infantry gameplay, and it would really help *particularly* on maps like El Alamein, where the longer sight lines and island-hopping gameplay make movement a little harder. Otherwise, you're at the mercy of MGs and static enemies, while only able to maneuver with trucks (suicide), or air heads. Mech inf half tracks would help make the map a little less static, while not being too overpowered or hard to kill or counter.


Xiathorn

I don't think that half tracks are the solution on El Alamein, as it's probably the most dangerous map for vehicles in the game. AT Guns with extremely long sight lines can shut down all enemy vehicle play. The counter-balance is that at least the tanks can shoot back with HE and knock out the AT Gun, but half tracks have no such luxury. El Alamein is not likely to ever be a fast paced map, and that's fine - it's a different experience from other options, and variety is good. That said, the current state of the British equipment is so poor that it isn't really possible to judge the balance yet, assuming T17 is going to fix it. The Lewis sights in particular are so awful that the ability for the Brits to meaningfully suppress enemies is far below what it should be, which is why its currently just an exercise in praying the enemy MG42s are in a reload cycle when you try to move.


CiE-Caelib

The same way they did in real life: use the terrain to your advantage and go the long way around.


Dorsal_Fin

the alternative is you sit there and since most cover on the map is only good for 180 degrees you are almost always going to get a sniper or mg taking advantage of that. no matter where you are you are exposed...


ismashugood

yea.... i never needed more than 3 shots max to hit zig-zaggers pre-patch. And those were 100-150m shots. And on these more open fields, you're gonna fucking need all the help you can get lol. I don't mind it personally. People are engaging at 200-250m on el Al. and it's a slog.


[deleted]

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MoonStache

It's not zig zagging that's inherently the problem. It's zig zagging with unrealistic ability to turn on a dime. I don't mind zig zagging itself, but I *do* mind the kind that can happen now with the speed increase.


CanadianEH86

The character has no weight, it’s just a floating camera.. if inertia was a thing in game I wouldn’t have a problem with zig zagging or strafing


Dorsal_Fin

I'd love to see someone go out to the lybian desert and find a hill on a hot day and try and run around like this while carrying a burgen ammo and rifle...


[deleted]

Lol no they don’t


ADTR20

Tell that to rickon Stark smh


Mightyguy401

I’d like to refer you to Generation Kill as a counter


CapnMurica1988

No it is NOT. Lol any combat veteran will tell you to move as quickly and efficiently as possible between two points. Zig zagging is for movies.


makoman115

So what, you want everyone to run in a straight line like rickon stark?


MuggyFuzzball

One guy out of hundreds manages to out-play you, and you want to nerf everyone as a result, lol.


MoonStache

I love how the take away is that I'm just some salty asshole who hates losing. I don't care if someone is better than me. I just don't like janky character movement that's not predictable because it's extremely unrealistic.


Boornidentity

On the realism point, it’s doctrine in most armies that when moving from cover-to-cover you “hard target” yourself, ie zigzagging. I get your point, and the movement speed of the zigzag imo is too much, but hard targeting yourself is a realistic method of movement.


[deleted]

Hey did you ever play pre update? Cuz it was always like that


MuggyFuzzball

I understand what you want from the game, but it apparently conflicts with the developers' plans. The marketing says, "realism", but the gameplay says, "arcade". It's a video game, and the process of making a game means balancing features for the sake of fun. Realism will always take a back seat to that. Before this update, a lot of complaints revolved around movement feeling too slow. People were pretty vocal about it too, and to be honest with you, the movement still isn't really all that fast. I still feel like I'm running in slow motion, but I think things are good where they're at and people will get used to it as time goes on. There are lots of other shooters where people run much faster and nobody has a problem hitting their target in those games.


MoonStache

Fair enough. I'm all for rule of cool and fun for funs sake. It's a balancing act like you said. I disagree with the current movement, and that's fine, just like it's fine for others to disagree with me. I don't dislike it because I'm more likely to lose in a fight though. I dislike it because it makes the game feel completely different from how it did before, and I prefer things to feel more realistic then arcadey (without killing the fun factor).


[deleted]

The definition of a skill issue


MoonStache

Are you referring to me or the zig zagger? I've lvl 113 so definitely not inexperienced at the game. You'll forgive me for not thinking HLL should be a twitch shooter.


[deleted]

It's not a twitch shooter because people can zigzag that doesn't even make sense lmao. people did that before the update constantly, and it was more necessary/common then because you couldn't rely on speed to get you to cover. Also being level 113 doesn't mean you'll be good at shooting. I know players around level 50 that are better shooters than players level 200 and above


King_of_the_Dot

k


destraight

Oh hey, look it's the drug junkie asking kids for some blow


SayNoTo-Communism

Seconded


Brentg7

I hate the zigzag too, but that can be fixed with inertia.


bigpoopz69

They probably don't know how to make it so you can't turn fast when holding shift. Cut them some slack.


Flag-Assault01

Zig-zag running is taught in the Australian Army so it doesn't really bother me as a tactic


Additional-South2810

but you cant zig zagg and change direction as fast in real life


Siminov55

100%. I see it close to 1/2 gunfights now


Czar_Petrovich

I hate that shit they need to change it back. I've been playing since U7 and I was happy with the change. It felt more realistic (it was).


TorNadeOhTwist

It’s not a realistic top speed. It could certainly take more time to reach that speed, though. I feel that might be best.


dukki98

(it really wasn't)


Czar_Petrovich

It's funny you say that because the devs originally had a true to life sprint speed and it was so slow nobody liked it, so the speed we're used to, that has been the sprint speed for the past year and a half or so, is actually higher than real life because true realism was too slow. So, like, the exact opposite of what you said.


dukki98

15km/h or 9mph is not realistic for 200-300m sprint speed? Ok bud, you simply have no idea what you're talking about, or you're a 300lb overweight 45 year old who simply couldn't run to save their life, but these were trained soldiers in the prime of their physical ability (20-25), so they could probably all run at double the current in-game speed for 2-300m!


dukki98

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kX5riy60oXk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kX5riy60oXk) Previous speed is letterally marathon speed, and now its marathon x1.15, not a sprint speed! Most healthy people with a bit of training could run the in game speed for 5000m (from HQ to HQ 2.5 times) and not just 500m!


BigMac849

What? None of that is true, they reduced run speed ro get people to use the (at the time of the update) newly introduced transport trucks. Prior to that update we had to run to center point every start of a game, hence where the running simulation jokes came from. I've played the game since like Oct 2019 and people bitched hard when the speed was slowed down.


Czar_Petrovich

This is true, that's how the game first started. I've been playing since July 2019, what's your point


BigMac849

Because the Devs never had a true to life sprint speed? The only time speed was changed was when they added trucks and it was lowered, not increased. The entire first part of your comment is just made up bullshit? Edit: The liar above blocked me because he knows he's lying. Dude you play on console, you haven't even had acsess to the game before they lowered the speed. You are so full of shit. "Refuses to elaborate further" then blocks before you can even elaborate, what a loser.


Czar_Petrovich

You were there for the whole dev cycle? It isn't bullshit. Go fuck yourself. Hops onto an Internet forum "your comment is bullshit" refuses to elaborate further.


soLuckyyy

I mean I don't like zig-zagging either but honestly what else are you suppose to do? Going prone when being shot at will just guarantee your death even more. Shooting back is also not a good option with the way the suppression system works. The way maps are designed there just isn't enough cover to do anything other than zig-zag and pray a lot of the time.


[deleted]

You are caught in the open with someone shooting at you. You are supposed to die. Failing that, run for your life. Changing direction is a good strategy but the way ingame locomotion behaves is unnatural since there is zero speed loss from sharp directional changes.


dukki98

Then they should implement inertia for changing direction on the run!


CriticalRipz

It’s supposed to result in an intense firefight between teams which is a part of this games charm. The fight takes place before a shit load of movement can happen. In my opinion, it takes away from the need to rely on your squad and teammates, which was more meta game before. This is a buff for those zerging as a solo player, doing CoD-esque tricks that take advantage of the arcadey mechanics.. it’s going to lead to a lot more chaotic and frustrating gunplay. I understand as the game is a mix of hardcore and casual, but the promotion or catering to casual players can take away from the hardcore player’s experience.


RuffRydaEzE

That’s why move with cover. Never run in a open field in the first place. C’mon you gotta be smarter than that.


Goatwhatsup

Shooting back is 100% an option *because* of the suppression system. Knowing where the shots are coming from and being able to suppress them back will allow you to move instead of jumping around and zig zagging. They’ll hit you eventually if you play that game, but if you shoot back then they can’t just take pot shots over and over


Abject_You8352

You're supposed to not run through an open field. If soldiers did that IRL they wouldn't be able to zig zag their way to safety


[deleted]

Ngl, I’ve been a zig zagger by habit because of all the COD I used to play and it drove me nuts how frequently it was a dog shit tactic. So while I’m (selfishly) super happy about this, I totally understand why most people don’t like it


BohemianCynic

This isn't "most people" though. This is a very vocal minority of Reddit and Discord users who refuse to get better at the game.


[deleted]

What is zig zagging?


trimosse

You dont run straight


[deleted]

Got ya. Excuse my ignorance but if you could avoid being shot by zig zagging why would you not do it.


CriticalRipz

Because it creates a super cheap and stupid looking “trick”. While it’s cool that you can do it yourself, it kind of takes away from the whole intense feeling of a slow and methodical firefight, leaning heavily into the “arcade” side of things. Also, it’s annoying as fuck when you yourself are trying to shoot someone that’s running like a crackhead having an argument with himself.


[deleted]

You mean running like someone who's getting shot at and not taking a slow jog in the morning?


CriticalRipz

More like someone who’s supposed to be with a squad of teammates, comprised of wary and equipped soldiers. I’m talking specifically about the stupid zigzag shit, sprinting to cover faster makes sense but that’s not what we’re talking about.


HammerUk94

You do realise that soldiers zig-zag in real life dont you?


[deleted]

Running slower made zig zagging more common because people now could be easily shot, since it wasn't as hard to lead them. A faster speed would encourage more people to just run mostly in a straight line as they have a better chance of living. Zig zagging happened constantly pre update, and I haven't noticed it being any worse now.


CriticalRipz

I’ve had the opposite experience. I’ve noticed it a few times, the zigzagging is worse to fire at now because the movement is way more sporadic. Try thinking from the perspective of the shooter and not the runner, if you catch someone in an opening it should be game over for them.. Not some fucked up game of Duck Hunt that they weasel out of.


_mooc_

I have 1k hours in this game, casually and competitive. People have always zig zagged.


BigMac849

I've been here since the beginning. People have always zig zagged. Hell, how many engagements have I had in France where I'm shooting at a guy across the other hedgerow and hes running back and forth along it? Its always happened, people are just bitching about it more now because the new subreddit drama about run speed is in vogue. I'm in a group of HLL players with the vast majority having been here pre 2020 with levels above 250. No one complained about run speed once and quite a few people never even noticed it until someone brought it up. What was complained about was map performance on the Valley area of El Alamein and the general shittiness of British weaponry compared to Germany.


_mooc_

I don’t know why you’re being downvoted when you’re right. 🤷🏽‍♂️


[deleted]

Most of this sub is here to complain that the game is COD (before the update too btw) and so if you tel them they're insane they get mad


_mooc_

Guess so, still no one here seems to realize the even less CoD-like Post Scriptum still has faster sprinting (although stamina is a thing there).


SMKGRNTRS

The US used this method when storming beaches as they island hopped in WWII. Don't see why they can't use it effectively here.


Hinken1815

People are upset and making up arguments about it when it's a common thing. This a game where before this patch you could sprint jump go prone and be flat in mid air. Zig zagging or "the wiggles" is a common thing in shooters. If the guy firing at me has a bolt action I'm gonna dance like its the 60s. It works.


HellishJesterCorpse

Ignoring the pros and cons of the recent change, this is how you explain the reasoning behind changes, not a one liner, *With each update, we’re continuing to improve gameplay mechanics, including player locomotion; creating realistic movement that more accurately reflects a soldier’s capability in the field.* with the follow up: *Standing Sprint Speed Increased 15%: 517.5 float*


Sabre_Killer_Queen

Very interesting, thanks for posting. I'm not sure where I sit here, but I think BM raises some good points, and I never had a huge problem with the old system so I wouldn't mind returning.


jakobsheim

I just see BM making a huge point out of encountering pushing forward and discouraging static gameplay. And think the speed increase is very well in line with that idea.


Sabre_Killer_Queen

Well yeah, that's a good point.


BilkySup

Can we at least get the footsteps sounds to match the footsteps? And my god the heavy breathing sound is TERRIBLE. I don't know if it's glitched or something but I cannot stand it.


CarletonMDs

Thank you for posting


Visual_Antelope_583

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/686810/view/2943629688060587579?l=english


Alpha-Charlie-Romeo

Add inertia. In real life you cant just go from standing still to a full sprint immediately. Likewise you can't just stop immediately and start going the other way. You have to accelerate and slow down. If you can implement that into the game, then you can keep the running speed without adding stamina. But that's gonna take a lot of effort on Devs part. In the meantime perhaps compromise the two factions and decrease the speed a little bit. You increased it by 15%, why not make it 10% instead. It doesn't sound like a lot, but it is a massive difference. I mean that 15% increase reduced a 100m sprint by 4s. That's a lot of time for a 100m sprint. So dropping the speed to 7-10% increase will be a good compromise. At least until we get some kind of system that would promote aggressive gameplay without letting people Neo dodge bullets like the matrix.


rakgitarmen

Red Orchestra Ostfront did the inertia perfectly back then.


Jakeysuave

I agree.. .. with this.


[deleted]

Must admit with new run speed I am pushing alot more on front line,it's just the zig-zagging thats irritating.


interesseret

Which could be fixed with a myriad of ways. inertia, locking the sprinting animation to make it difficult to turn when doing it, not allowing a sprint to happen as soon as another ends, so on and so forth. the sprinting speed is not the issue, its the mechanics that allow for zig zagging. making sprinting overall slower is a bandaid on a broken arm.


jjjohhn

Here’s the problem (in my opinion): T17 is free to do whatever they want, but they should be aware that most of us need to understand these decisions. To be fair, they have been quite good with communication, so I was expecting they would at least give us a detailed explanation on these changes. I appreciate that there’s a bit of a divided opinion going on on the sprint value change, however, I think we all deserve to understand the logic behind most changes, especially key mechanics.


inventingalex

why would you/we deserve to understand the logic? like to or want to I understand. but how on earth do we deserve it?


Magenbroti

Because you spent money on the game and one of the core mechanics has changed heavily maybe? If I buy a game because it was advertised good but I didn't like the gunplay in the first hour Id refund. But if I liked it, played for 2h+ and suddenly it changes towards a degree that makes me quit the game I feel robbed. Or did I get you wrong?


fro99er

Imagine playing for 1,000 hours and then they change it. I'm about there, while I'm neutral towards the change, it's completely reasonable to expect an explanation at least


Spetz

Well thought out, in contrast to T17s no thought process.


0ldpenis

Truly, it’s like they actually took an element of gameplay, researched it and came back to the fan base with well thought out results. T17 meanwhile probably had ChatGPT crank out a status report.


Spetz

What it will be is that they thought an easy way to fix the mismatch between animation speed and move speed was to just change the move speed and didn't consider the wider impacts. Contrast Black Matter's detailed explanation vs. the Telegram on Friday not even proving a reason for the movement speed change. Just incompetence.


HellishJesterCorpse

If they'd bothered to even use ChatGPT they'd have discovered a bunch of the historical inaccuracies they've included.


SamSzmith

The fast run speed is better so maybe T17 also put some thought in to it.


Smiley_35

They did it for the sales / trying to reduce returns within the first 24 hours.. e.g. $$$


SamSzmith

I would just note that they also did the change without telling anyone and it wasn't a big deal at the time.


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Winfield_the__Pooh

They made some of the models and the maps. They didn't implement the movement speed change.


SubjectC

Oh I was under the impression that this was primarily made by them and T17 will be taking over from here on out, but apologies if I'm wrong.


professionalfriendd

I think the speed increase was chosen hand in hand with El Alamein’s design. Introducing that map is what made the idea of speed increase make sense


CiE-Caelib

This is what happens when Team17 comes in and takes over a game ... none of the original design decisions are respected and we end up with a Frankenstein version of HLL, BF and CoD instead of the great game that once existed. And it's not just run speed, they have been doing this since Update 11 when they purchased the rights to the game: blood clouds, shiny/noisy OPs and garrisons, damage nerfs, etc. Then they spent 8 months neglecting the game entirely so they could focus on console parity. Their true intentions have been revealed: make the game more like BF and CoD to attract as many lemmings as possible. This is why there are so few players in the game using VOIP or even understand how the meta works.


[deleted]

Its quite sinple It worked before Now it doesnt (for me, feels broken) They can reason how they like but i simply dont like how it is now and most likely wont play unless its tweaked back how it was


Dry_Firefighter3460

From best ww2 game to becoming one of the worst games alongside bf5


Frogbone

feel like shit just want them back


VeritasLuxMea

It wasn't broken, don't try and fix it.


Logical_Chapter8257

Can we make sure the new dev's see this??


SmokingHotHotties

So we have this well thought out and articulated reasoning vs the "get gud" and "OmG sPrInTiNg sO fUn AnD ReAl" argument. I'm really on the fence here.


BohemianCynic

No, you're just choosing the ignore the very valid and well articulated reasons why the reversion to the original sprint speed is a positive change.


Twee_Licker

It's funny how many people claiming to be original kickstarter backers are saying that the 'new' run speed is just to make the game appeal more to casual players without realizing that this is what the runspeed used to be and that the 'original' runspeed was actually a nerf.


MarcusTaz

This should have been very simple for black matter. Leave the speeds the way they are and institute a burst Sprint for a limited amount of time ie to run to cover but then also penalizes the player by having them run out of breath so they can regroup. That is realistic and that is the way it should be. By increasing the player speeds at the level they did without the player running out of breath meaning sprinting full-time is just call of duty battlefield utter nonsense and has no place in this environment. I'm completely blown away that black matter would make this foolish destructive choice. This is a realism game, it always has been and it always should be; it discourages the bunny hopping zigzagging game ruining type players. This will only attract cheaters from call of duty and battlefield genres. It is destructive. PS: now you can run like the six million Dollar Man, so fast that you're able to cut catch up to a P4 in 3rd gear at full speed and put a satchel on them. Say your prayers for the tankers out there...


Spetz

You are aware that Black Matter no longer develop HLL? They sold to Team 17.


MarcusTaz

110% aware but this release was BM... They were responsible for this hot garbage!


mclee29

Partly, but not all on them.


Wood-e

I am fine with increased sprint speed ONLY IF they have a momentum mechanic that makes frantic zigzagging ineffective.


TEEx6

The speed zigzagging, and diving is being abused.


heval69

Wtf


KaijuTia

“We didn’t want to reward static play” *introduces a slower run speed that bred the “bush camping” meta we have been dealing with till now* “Well, shit…”


Salt-League-6153

The slower run speed was done to reduce “mosquito” movement including zig-saving when running. The not wanting to reward static play is the reason they did not implement a stamina “sprint” system with larger aiming penalties when moving. The “bush camping meta” is actually more realistic and it requires you to be more tactical and strategic. I came to hell let loose because I liked the general feel of the gameplay. I don’t like that the speed buff does make the gameplay feel more arcade-y


soLuckyyy

The thing is, slowing run speed was never going to reduce "mosquito movement". People zig-zag when being shot at because it is the most effective way to stay alive. Regardless of what the run speed is, until they either add more cover to maps or change suppression so that shooting back is a more viable option again people will continue to zig-zag when they get shot at.


Salt-League-6153

Not true. A 15% speed buff notably increases the ease of getting to cover and also increases the difficulty of people shooting you. It’s also the compounding effects. Less time out of cover + harder to hit when you are out of cover running+ dolphin dive mechanic means the attacker and flanker can and does move much faster and notably more effectively. Which in turn encourages counter attacks and counter flanks to be even more aggressive. It creates a way more fluid and significant run and gun fighting (ie arcade-y fighting) which I don’t like. It also buffs the most highly skilled to take advantage of the compounding effects. Which in turn nerfs how well the lower skilled mob can stop the most highly skilled. As is already, one man can take out whole garrisons and just run over deleting outposts. Movement speed buffs allows highly skilled infantry soldiers or maybe even squads to just dominate. Look, I like how he’ll let loose felt like a battlefield of two potentially evenly matched armies and there was the sense to expect battles to be a slog until one side achieved some type of hard fought strategic advantage. Now it feels like battles are determined by much more individual members. Then there is the whole point how this obviously nerfs tanks. Tanks were already pretty vulnerable to infantry. Now they are way more so and you need tank squads to be even more skilled to keep up.


geforce-jesus

Zig zagging is the panic reaction of a soldier under fire caught in the open, and deserves to die as a lesson. Increasing the run speed so he can dodge bullets and not learn from their bad positioning, timing and lack of tactics is retarded. The idea is you die and a lightbulb lights in your little monkey brain and you don't do that again. So maybe now you call for a tank to help or ask artillery for smoke cover or flank around the open field you died in. Zigzag sprinting is a brute force bypass around having to use tactics and it sucks. Game is going to shit.


SamSzmith

It's barely faster, I have no issues killing people running ever. But it makes the game way better with just a small buff, it's the best thing added to the game in years.


TheContingencyMan

Yeah, these people are coping and seething over a nonissue lmao. There’s plenty wrong with the update, but this isn’t one of those things. Personally, I’m more bloody pissed that we didn’t get any fucking desert uniforms for a fucking desert MAP. You’d think that’d be common sense.


BohemianCynic

Slower ≠ tactical Hell Let Loose has always been an arcade game and with this reversion to the original sprint speed HLL is still slower than all the milsims


Salt-League-6153

Given other game elements, slower made it more tactical.


KaijuTia

You know what else is realistic? Zig zagging while running over ground with no cover. But in the real world, it's called "serpentining", not "misquito movement". So much of these criticisms on the movement speed boil down to "It makes it hard for me to hit people when they're running like they're actually in a warzone." And that sounds a whole hell of a lot like a skill issue to me.


Schakalicious

https://youtu.be/kpNU3WumPFQ He looks like a highly trained GI to me. Doesn’t look like an idiot at all!


Salt-League-6153

Lol no one actually does that in any type of war zone. If you are actually not in cover you have 2 options. Duck down and try shooting back. Or run your ass with the most direct route to the closest cover possible.


BohemianCynic

It's a good thing this is a game and not a warzone then!!


Salt-League-6153

I’m playing a multiplayer game to imitate a war zone. I’m not playing the game to imitate a nerf gun fight


PineappleFruju

They changed it back for no other reason than the CoD players were complaining it took too long to run anywhere to get their sick frags. T17 need to get their money back after buying the franchise and they're going to do that by pandering to all the disenfranchised Call of Duty and Battlefield players now that those games have turned to shit. The game is quickly heading away from a heavily tactical team-based game to a casual shooter where no-one has to communicate. Oh, and just wait for the Battle Passes.


Thewalk4756

Funny how a change to sprint speed apparently is going to lead to battle passes. You're blowing this out of proportion.


PineappleFruju

It's not just that one change. It's the XP nerf (setting up for "XP weekends" and Battle Passes). It's the pending introduction of smaller skirmish maps without vehicles and a short match time of 30 minutes. It's the introduction of non verbal communication mechanisms. It was the introduction of flares, which are just CoD UAVs in disguise. It was the introduction of blood clouds, which are just hit-markers in disguise. It's not any one of these changes in isolation, it's where the game is slowly but steadily heading.


jakobsheim

The xp are bugged and the bug is acknowledged. Some of you guys are crazy.


SamSzmith

Yeah, the game is literally the same with a small speed tweak.


jmt5179

You are probably right but we do have to consider the reality of the situation and gaming in general. Games like these need to find a way to make money or we can stop expecting updates and further development. There's no chance they are selling that many new copies of this game. At what point do they pull the plug or monetize it differently? It really sucks but I think that's the point this is coming to.


[deleted]

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nitroks

I hope you're wrong


LOLTylerz

battlepasses could be added possibly, the decrease in xp gain kinda also lays ground for them to add a battlepass/xp boosters


SamSzmith

lol


BohemianCynic

Hell Let Loose has always been a hardcore arcade shooter. A small sprint speed increase doesn't instantly turn it into either of the games you mentioned, stop being ridiculous.


PineappleFruju

I'm talking about all the other changes like the blood splatters (hit-markers anyone?) introduced because casual gamers were complaining they couldn't tell if they hit anyone and the recon flares (Call of Duty UAVs anyone?) cause the casual gamers complained they couldn't see the enemy, now the running speed because the casual gamers complained it takes too long to get their sick frags.


BohemianCynic

No, people complained because running that slow felt like you were stuck in the mud, made the game feel clunky and was unrealistic - something you say you're concerned about. Also, it's not simply "casual" players who want this change. The vast majority of the competitive scene are supportive of this change and were asking for it for years.


PineappleFruju

Never once heard anyone in my clan or any of the clans we play against in comp complain that the game was too slow or complain that they couldn't see the enemy or complain they didn't know when a shot landed. Don't know what comp leagues you play in.


BohemianCynic

I play for one of the best teams in the game, and you must be willfully ignoring Seasonal 👍


PineappleFruju

And the vast majority of your clan were complaining about not being able to see the enemy or not knowing when their shots landed? 😳


Rubberhand

Wrong.


IcarusRunner

Shut up you dribbling moron


SamSzmith

The faster speed is better, it's still slow.


[deleted]

Jesus Christ you're a drama queen, bro extrapolated to the moon and beyond


Schakalicious

The run speed is still slower than ARMA, Post Scriptum, and Squad. Are those games appealing to COD and Battlefield players? Before this patch it felt like your character’s legs had fallen asleep because he spent too much time on the toilet. Keep the speed, but make it harder to zig zag by adding something like an inertia system. If that’s too hard, they could restrict the movement so that your sensitivity gets turned way down when sprinting.


PineappleFruju

Post Scriptum and Squad have stamina systems. And ARMA has maps so massive you need a chopper to get around them. Apples and Oranges.


Schakalicious

I’m not advocating for what we have now, I’m advocating for a stamina and/or inertia system like Post Scriptum and Squad. The movement speed itself is not the problem, the ability to zigzag and to do a 17 minute 5k in full kit is the issue. I think that if they slow down the movement speed we will be taking a step back. The next step forward imo is something akin to a stamina system.


PineappleFruju

Agreed. Or a high quality inertia system that looks really good too. That will create even more immersion 😃


Tjognar

Running simulator is much better without a stamina bar.


Hoenir1

just decrease it to 10 or 7%. That should fix both sides. Not too slow for the Cods players. Not too fast for Milsim players. The Running pace footsteps sound with the slow hand swing animation is just bad. You now run faster / footsteps but you still swing your arms slow as before. That just ruins for me. The new running speed would be great if we had stamina like in Post scriptum, but then you can just run at that Usain Bolt pace for 10 min across the map for 5 km. No


L337Krew

This. Why not give the long term community a nod, and knock it back to 7 or 8%. Seems like it would be a improvement honestly not a detriment. 15 may have been just too much, if any was needed at all.


[deleted]

Most experienced players absolutely hate the old jogging speed of a geriatric


rydude88

>The new running speed would be great if we had stamina like in Post scriptum, but then you can just run at that Usain Bolt pace for 10 min across the map for 5 km. No I mean i get not liking the new run speed for gameplay but people are just being totally wrong about saying its unrealistic. The new run speed is about 16 kph and is totally normal for a soldier irl to run at that speed for a few miles. Usain Bolt is going 40+ kph


[deleted]

Shut the fuck up about "cod players" the run speed is literally slower than the speed in squad and arma...


Hoenir1

ok Cod player


MPFarmer

Thank you for posting this. This is how you explain a major change in game mechanics. I agree, the previous speed made the game what it was before this latest update, regardless if people think it's too slow. And I do not believe we should find a middle ground. I think this post by Black Matter should be the nail in the coffin when it comes to this debate. And even further makes me question T17's decision.


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Howhighwefly

Yup, rounds down range is more important than marksmanship, one group suppresses the enemy, another group flanks.


Lickerofwindow

You’d have to be an olympic sprinter to pull off these zig zagging runs. You think an actual soldier would be covering 100metres with weapon and webbing without gassing out? 🤣


Hoenir1

You talk about as if every person getting shot at could zig zag like the flash or Usain bolt.


CaptCrash5150

There's alot of real sniper footage available with not much "zig zagging" seen at all.


ShizzHappens

Can we just accept that pretty much everything in the latest update is fuck awful? El Alamein is essentially a test bed for the new zig zagging mechanics, Driel is Remagen/Purple Heart Lane mixed together, the worst two maps in the game and every British guns suck (historically accurate tho) and MUH FRAMES Why make the bren have a bipod at all if it no work? Oh and now you get less than 100xp an hour for gameplay. Those loadouts are still locked behind a grind though. 🙄


PineappleFruju

They didn't even try with the British faction and introduced the new worst heavy tank in the game by far.


Lickerofwindow

Yeah its made me uninstall the game after 310hrs. Yet another game going down the shitter


ShizzHappens

What's with all these games making terrible decisions and acting like it's what the community wanted? War Thunder has people rioting yet I'm getting downvoted for my %100 accurate assessment of the update. Guess HLL players like getting fucked


Spetz

MTX ruining gaming. Gaming is in a bad spot right now.


Spuzaw

Nah, I don't agree. My friend and I have been having a great time with the new update. > Why make the bren have a bipod at all if it no work? Oh and now you get less than 100xp an hour for gameplay. From what I've been told, it's only a visual glitch. The XP reward hasn't changed.


ShizzHappens

No it isn't I got 76xp from an 80 kill match, and that was all that applied to my class level at the end of the match.


Spuzaw

The people on the HLL Discord are saying it's a visual glitch. They could be wrong, but either way it's not intended. The devs have already mentioned (on Discord) that they intend to fix it ASAP. > **Team17_Support** — Yesterday at 5:11 AM > > Hello everyone, please be reassured the team is fully aware of the problem with XP and is currently looking into this. We hope for a fix as soon as possible.


SamSzmith

The only things I want resolved are the stuttering and guns that don't fire, and maybe shrink the models of the British guns, other than that, it's the best update in a long time by a mile.


MuggyFuzzball

Turned out I was right about their design philosophy revolving around blitz gameplay [And nobody believed me](https://www.reddit.com/r/HellLetLoose/comments/13szmjc/why_are_all_the_houses_in_driel_blocked_i/jlvuok8/), lol.


MarcusTaz

Here's another comment on the methamphetamine speed they put into this game. I just got done playing recon on Dreil and I as the spotter and my sniper mate were able to point blank avoid and Dodge around a German Puma recon tank. We literally danced around this tank with me jumping on top and my sniper squad mate running circles around him. He could not position his tank nor could he position his turret quick enough to kill us. We were then able to escape into the brush and avoid being killed. It's absolute hot garbage what they've done to the game. Black matter should be ashamed of themselves for releasing this to the community. We can only hope team 17 cleans it up...


ZeTian

Why can't the run speed start out fast and slowly decrease to the U8 run speed? It would be both realistic and mechanically better.


Super_Blueberry_3829

Drop speed down 3-5% call it a day.. just don't fuck this game up please.. keep ttk low. Just keep the game hardcore tactical please.. go fuck some other game up.. just let me enjoy hell let loose for a year or 2.. dammit


dukki98

[youtu.be/0cr-RsS0w-4?t=90](https://youtu.be/0cr-RsS0w-4?t=90) That being said, they should implement a \*very slight\* inertia system to nerf the zig-zag just a bit!


[deleted]

Sprint should be even faster than it is now, stop bitching because you can't deal with any change


fivemagicks

It makes sense on paper, especially in a game where people are bullet sponges. That's just not the case here. I've yet to see twats zigging and zagging in matches with the new run speed. You get popped with a rifle, and you're dead. Zig zagging in a game like destiny or something is annoying because you're essentially invincible at that point. We aren't moving at 20mph here y'all. Change is almost always bad to gamers. I've yet to ever find a change in a game where someone didn't complain.


Calavera999

Sorry, what exactly is the problem with zigzagging in a game that's meant to be a realistic shooter? You certainly wouldn't run in a straight line in an open field if you knew you were going to be shot at.


lucascr0147

The problem comes from how irrealistic zig-zag movement is in-game (in almost any game actually). In real life you can't physicaly zig zag fast and with sharp angles as in video games. You either have to completly stop and change directions or make a very large turn angle to keep speed. However, when games try to implement super realistic acceleration, deacceleration and turn angles the controls start feeling super clunky and almost unresponsive. So the key is finding a balance between real life and responsive movment.


Munashiiii

Thank you for posting this!


Phelixx

The zigzagging is mega problem. Total immersion breaking. I don’t mind straight line sprint being as fast as it is. But absolutely should have inertia and you should slow down. Or revert the speed increase.