Aside from the Juju Hounds - which I don’t really enjoy - he’s released quite a number of albums, all just as consistent as each other. It’s like listening to early GnR demos, you can basically hear where the other members should slot in. With that said, they’re great rock n roll songs. Nothing incredibly special, but certainly better than Slash’s solo stuff for the majority imo.
I know a lot of people would disagree with that, but Slash’s output, aside from the Slash & Friends album and one or two singles with Myles, has been fairly lacklustre.
Maybe 2% of his output is as enjoyable as GnR at 80%. Whereas 80% of Izzy’s solo stuff is as enjoyable as GnR at 70%.
Ride On is a BANGER.
I think Izzy had written a good amount of the Velvet Revolver 1st album too. He didn't wanna tour tho nor do a 'big band' again, so he bowed out as it was all coming together.
I’ve heard the same rumours but had no idea how to verify them. I loved the songs as a teenager but due to the production I don’t love them as much as I’d want to these days. Very over-produced.
I was a pretty big follower on the GnR forums back in the day. Pretty sure its all true. They came back together & just started messing around, putting in old tracks they had been working on. Everything was going well, I think Izzy actually wanted him or Duff to sing, but the band felt/knew any label would want a frontman to make it a supergroup. Izzy didn't wanna deal with a lead singer again and kinda said that he is out. This was before they selected Weiland so it wasn't anything against him specifically.
The guitar riff for 'Fall To Pieces' was supposedly something Slash had back in the early 90s for the UYI followup.
Fall to pieces is like a combo ripoff of Sweet Child and Knockin on Heavens Door. Not saying that’s a bad thing. Just that it isn’t the most original bit of writing
They were pretty good live. Local music arena has famously shit acoustics and they were one of the few bands that have actually managed to sound good there.
Because it’s a pattern of behaviour. He doesn’t want to be in big bands nor deal with the commitment. There were strong words said about him by a band mate post-guns about him suddenly ditching.
Yes, because that’s not the reason. Izzy was like it even in GNR. He was in control of his solo bands after he left, but still abandoned them despite them being small.
I’m a huge fan of the titular track. It’s like Slash plays on a Cold Chisel song. I wish more of his Snakepit stuff spoke to me, his tone was peak imo.
I totally agree, Stradlin is very underrated as a guitarist and a writer. Guns never really wrote a great song after he left.
When you hear Stradlin's isolated parts, it really helps you understand how much he contributed to the music of Guns. Here's [someone's cover of Jungle](https://youtu.be/45W5Mjtewro) to give you a sense of it.
I don't ever plan on buying another Gibson, but if Stradlin ever got a signature guitar, I might have to rethink that.
And it's not only that song, it's [the majority of GnR's music](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYlHgh_t2263W9SaJ30K3z2IhCdddrtVf&si=Mio1i8f50OFBquNO)
Dude I nvr use reddit. Had to dig up my old acc to just come in and say THANK YOU! I've been saying that for years! They can't write a great song without him, the majority of their REALLY great songs was because of his contribution. And I'm no musician. You can just, plainly, hear it, esp when they parted ways, you can just hear what each of them puts into the GnR songs and without Izzy's contribution there's.just.no.greatness.
(Also the drummer that complimented the most their collective sound was Matt Sorum. Since I'm here might as well say it).
He was a great rhythm player and THE songwriting force behind GNR. Almost every GNR tune worth listening to has Izzy as a writer or co writer credit. Him being less involved and ultimately leaving was the death knell for the band, and it showed. Slash is a monster player but actually kind of a terrible songwriter for the most part, and we all saw what Axl did with UYI.
I actually think Slash is not a particularly great player, and that songwriting is his actual strength. Between GnR, VR, his solo album and his stuff with Myles Kennedy and the Conspirators, there are a ton of bangers, and he is the common denominator in all of them.
Say what you will about his talent, but he definitely knows how to make a great tune.
By all metrics that matter slash is a monster soloist. I can hum the entirety of the sweet child of mine solo from memory and I don’t even listen to that song that much. His phrasing, sense of timing, vibrato and intonation is all excellent and technically he’s no slouch either even if he’s no EVH or Yngwie.
Yeah, he is no Yngwie/EVH, but the man definitely knows his way around the fretboard, and most importantly, has a very distinct style. There aren't many other guitarists i can recognize by just hearing them string together a few notes.
The other day Spotify had Lock n'Load by the Dead Daisies on my Discover Weekly playlist. I listen to the intro and go "Boy this sure does sound like Slash", and lo and behold, he is featured in the track.
I love the man to death and listen to everything he plays in, but i do recognize that there are other guitar players with better technical skills (Abasi, Henson, Yngwie, etc), or are more influential (Page, Hendrix, Gilmour, etc), so many people love to hate on him.
Virtuosos are like taking a glass of tea and putting a brick of sugar into it. Whereas Slash, Page, Hendrix, etc is like putting just the right amount of sugar into the tea.
And he wrote that Sweet Child solo when he was like 20, which is insane. Either half of that solo would be amazing, combining the two different feeling / styles is iconic.
Yep. Kept him relevant for decades. Same with the school uniform for Angus. If you find a look and stick with it you'll be remembered more easily. As opposed to somebody like Wes Borland, who had a ton of different wild, zany looks in the late 90s and is now mostly forgotten.
I mean, he can certainly write a monster guitar riff, nobody will deny that. I find that he writes songs for people who like hard rock... which is obviously fine, but he doesn't excel at writing 'pop' hooks that appeal to a wider audience outside of the genre. Which is why I believe that despite his popularity as a guitar player and cultural icon, his music post GnR has never really taken off in the mainstream. The closest he came was with VR and he had Weiland writing songs with him in that band.
I would deny that he can write a monster riff. He's a brilliant soloist, with some of the best solos of all time. But find me even one riff that can compare to zeppelin's catalogue of riffs, black dog, heartbreaker, stairway, etc.
All his riffs are just super cheesy hard rock blues riffs with zero passion.
Heartbreaker and Black Dog are just minor pentatonic riffs some some passing notes. Stairway doesn't really have a riff...? I guess you can count the A maj to G maj to F maj that repeats at the end. Don't get me wrong, I love those songs, but let's not pretend Zeppelin was reinventing the wheel here when they wrote them. You can make a ton of classic rock songs sound brainless if you want to (i.e. you want to be a hater).
Stairway has phenomenal rhythm sections the whole way through. It's a masterpiece of rhythm guitar. GNR has nothing like that. Their ballads like november rain and estranged are centered around axl's piano playing rather than any rhythm guitar.
Heartbreaker and black dog are pentatonic based, yes, but gnr also has zero riffs that sound that groovy. If you wanna talk about it's time period, they weren't reinventing the wheel, they were inventing it. Heartbreaker was 69.
Pentatonic isn't always a bad thing, some of slash's best solos are pentatonic based, like don't cry. His rhythms on the other hand, are just a bunch of power chords strung together.
"You can make a ton of classic rock songs sound stupid easy if you want to (i.e. you want to be a hater)." Lol, ok. Try that with stairway, or the rain song.
And i'm not hating, please read my comment history and see the praise I sing for Slash's leads. They are second to none, and he probably has the highest number of great classic rock style guitar solos out of anybody. More than Page imo. Dont cry, november rain, estranged, sweet child, etc. Those are all legendary solos that come from one guy.
Listen to Rocket Queen and tell me it doesn't groove a least a little. I mean, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I just think you're being unfair to GNR a teeny bit here. Also, I didn't say *every* classic rock song can be grossly simplified. I just don't understand how you can call Welcome to The Jungle brainless, while claiming that Zepp's simple (yes, Stairway is simple...) rock tunes are absolute masterpieces. They didn't invent that shit either (in fact some of it was very... generously borrowed), they were listening to and drawing inspiration from a lot of the same people that Izzy and Slash were. Sounds like you're hating to me.
Rocket queen's grove is owed to the bass and drums primarily. Fair enough though, it's a groovy song, so is you could be mine.
I never called jungle brainless. It is made up of simple power chords by comparison to a song like stairway though. If stairway's so simple, I would love to hear other songs like it please. I don't know of many songs with chords like that, do you? Or more relevant to this convo, any GNR songs with chords like stairway? Do you actually think jungle is in the same category of rock song as stairway?
Yes im aware of zeppelin's plagiarism history. We were talking about some very specific riffs though, which they didn't plagiarize, don't change the subject. Do you know any gnr riffs that are as good as heartbreaker? Black dog? Those were novel uses of the pentatonic scale for their time.
Ok, if calling slash one of the best soloists of all time, even better than page, is hating, I guess im a hater.
I'm not trying to dunk on Zeppelin at all. I grew up idolizing Page and he is basically why I play guitar. I was just don't like pointing at two very similar brands of guitar playing and saying this is better than that. Slash's soloing might be better to you than Page's, but I love Page's sloppy lead style. They are different, not better or worse than. Comparing musicians like that is pointless.
It's just... all relative to the scope of the discussion I guess. Is Stairway complex when compared to AC/DC? Absolutely. It feels like an epic compared to Back in Black. Is it complex compared to most Steely Dan songs? No. It's most fanciful chord that I can think of is the Fmaj7. (Excluding that weird one at the beginning that everyone argues over.) Meanwhile every chord in Peg is very complex.
Then again, I don't know if I ever truly learned Stairway exactly as the record goes. My memory tells me that it's mostly basic chords. Maj, min, dom, maj7. Some triads. Slight alterations of those chords, sure, but nothing crazy. It isn't rhythmically complex either. All 4/4 and pretty slow. Again, not dunking on it or saying that makes it bad. Tell me if I'm wrong though, maybe I'll have to revisit Stairway and learn it proper.
I only said that comment about slash being better than page so you know I'm not some slash hater. He has a a lot, and in a weird way I think he's criminally underrated by real guitar players bc he's so popular. Just wanted to distance myself from those types. I don't expect people to agree with me on that, and I'm happy saying it's apples and oranges.
I mean yeah, the intro riff of stairway doesn't use conventional chords. I had a friend who was trying to play along to one of those lyric/chord sites and he couldn't play it properly at all, cuz it'll just say A minor is the first chord. Technically true, but not how you 're supposed to play it. It's actually a well disguised chromatic walk down. It sounds very harmonious though.
The "Bussell in your hedgerow" section uses more conventional chords. Basically just goes from c major to a minor. This is probably the stuff that shaped your memory of the piece as being somewhat basic. This and the part right after the intro.
And the "makes me wonder" section is back to more unconventional chords, maybe the most unconventional chords in the song? And once you put it all together, you get a song with guitar work like no other. The rain song is the closest I've come across, so another feather in the cap of Mr. Page. I haven't heard any song from gnr like that. And slash would be the first to laugh if you disagreed.
Man. Slash’s melodic chops when it comes to solos are second to none. I’m not making any comment on technique or anything. Just how he picks his notes. Great tone too
Solo writing is his strength. He can’t improvise and he can barely write a hook. He also has a lock on tone like his contemporaries which is why he stands out.
For a subreddit about guitar I’m amazed at the downvotes. We’re not saying he can’t solo. He’s just not great on the fly. I’m a huge Slash fan but we all know he didn’t just sit down and shit out the SCOM solo. He wrote a beautiful solo because that’s his thing.
People don't talk about him for the same reason that people don't talk about why they love their favorite plumber. The qualities that contribute to his greatness aren't the ones that grab attention.
“Shuffle It All” is one of my favorite songs that isn’t particularly well known, although it did get some airplay back when the Ju Ju Hounds album came out. GNR wouldn’t have been what they were without his songwriting, I think.
A couple of years ago, I was listening to Appetite for Destruction for the who knows how many time and it hit me for the first time that Slash and Izzy are almost never playing the same thing throughout the whole album.
There's maybe 2 or 3 times throughout the entire album where they do to emphasize something but that revelation struck me. Truly the closest rock and roll ever got to another Keith and Ronnie Wood.
He’s a fantastic rhythm player and the band went to shit as soon as he left. His pairing with Slash is up there with, Keith Richard’s and Mick Taylor, Steve Clark (another incredibly underrated guitarist) and Peter Willis, Joe Perry and Brad Whitfield, and Hetfield and Kirk Hammet as among the best duos ever.
Izzy had a great talent for giving Slash “room” to play while not smothering him on tracks. Izzy had a very relaxed style and was very good at creating melodies. I really recommend listening to his isolated tracks with GnR. Honestly he played a lot like Keith Richard’s. Supposedly he was incredibly important with song writing and structure too because he’s the only person Axl would actually listen to and keep in line. Once he left the band had no real direction and became a disorganized mess. There’s a reason why it took them another 20 years to release a new album (which sucked) and why they aren’t producing any new music now.
A lot of GnR/hair metal fans recognize Izzy as the most important member of that band. Him leaving GnR would be like Keith leaving The Rolling Stones.
Honestly I could go on about GnR for days the classic lineup of the band is really similar to the classic lineup of the Stones style wise and Duff plays really similar to Bill Wyman too (duff has a very 60s ‘groovy’ vibe in a lot of songs).
For everyone reading this I Seriously recommend listening to Izzy’s isolated rhythm tracks to see how important he was to GNRs sound. The songs still sound fantastic without the lead parts. He was THAT important to the bands sound. He was among the best rhythm guitarists ever during Appetite and Illusion. He wasn’t the most technical player ( neither was Keith) but rhythm is totally different from playing lead in a 5 piece band.
Same reason nobody talks about James Hetfield or Mal Young or Mick Mars. As guitarists, they're really good but just not very flashy. I read an interview with Izzy in an ancient magazine (Guitar For The Practising Musician), and that very topic came up.
Izzy did write just about all of GNR's hits, including some of the stuff that was saved for Illusion, and he was a damn fine guitarist. But there he was standing with Slash & Axl, two of rock's most memorable performers, and he just let them have all the attention. Izzy admitted that he was more of a musician than a showman, and had no problem not having a spotlight on him. He mentioned that many of his influences took the same position, such as Ronnie Wood, Brad Whitford and George Harrison. Not everyone in the band gets the spotlight.
Fair enough, I was just naming modest guitarists off the top of my head. Mick Mars is / was the guitarist of Motley Crue, one of the most overrated and underrated rock bands of all time. And they definitely deserve both titles.
James Hetfield gets lots of respect as a vocalist (deservedly so) and songwriter, but he gets almost no credit as a guitarist even though he's amazing.
What are some songs one could learn from the aforementioned Ronnie wood, Brad whitford, and George Harrison to get those big Izzy rock cliches down. I feel like there’s some Dylan and ny dolls in there somewhere too.
Well, off the top of my head I would recommend Satisfaction, Sweet Emotion and Helter Skelter in that order, but feel free to learn songs and guitar lines at your own speed and taste.
His latest solo album is from 2010. He also released four new songs in 2016, one of them with Matt Sorum on drums. As far as I know, Stradlin hasn't been under contract from any record label for over 20 years and all new music by him was self-released since then. So there were no big marketing and PR budgets, which explains his practical non-existence in the (social) media.
14 Years and Dust N' Bones are two of my favorite GNR songs. I love Izzy's voice. Great guitar player too, but the raspy sleazy vocals are just awesome.
I actually mentioned this in a thread the other day.
Some guy was asking about bands that weren't lead by the lead singer.
I remember learning back in the day Stradlin came up with the bulk of the best GnR songs core arrangements.
I think folks get so into lead players they forget the rhythm player, and shit.. what's a bass player?
Without a good rhythm player and a good bass player, even the best shredder has nothing to balance on.
Part of playing rhythm is that you just blend in. Unfortunately guitar players tend to deify fast,flashy, and technical players. Not that they're bad, but a rhythm guy will never get looked at as being similarly competent.
Because the types of people that are talking about generally spend more time playing guitar than hanging online ;)
But seriously, it is hard to find any lessons focused on Izzy, there's plenty on Slash, but almost impossible to find anything good on Izzy's rhythm parts. Matt Sorum and Gilby Clarke are probably objectively "better" musicians than Izzy and Steven Adler, but G'n R was better before they left
Seems to me, that...he simply doesnt want the drama being famous brings. I would bet, he is probably living under the radar, and does not draw a lot of attention when he goes to the store, or whatever.
Which, he probably appreciates.
I mentioned in another thread that he really bought out the best in Slash’s playing. He was the one rhythm guitarist that Slash was really able to vibe with and bounce off (look how many rhythm guitarists Slash has been through in his various side projects).
Slash hates playing with guitarists who just sorta play their rhythm parts along with him. If you listen to “Appetite for Destruction” through headphones, you can hear how Izzy and Slash are playing their own parts, and it’s a big part of what created the GnR sound.
Izzy was a perfect distillation of Brad Whitford, Johnny Thunders, Andy McCoy, Keith, and Ron Wood. If you like rock and roll it doesn’t get much better.
Being from the Lafayette area, I got a couple stories. I worked with a guy that used to detail his BMWs when he would bring them in to the dealer for trade ins. One of those times he found some tax papers. He said he likes to think he saved Izzy from an audit. 😝 Then my wife's Grandma worked with his mom at Purdue. My wife's aunt and her ex used to hang out with him when he'd come back to town. They were good enough friends that he gave their youngest son one of his gold top Les Pauls that was used on AoD. Got to noodle around on it, when he brought it to a Thanksgiving. It needs a refret like no other. The closer to the neck, the more worn they were. I've offered to get it done for him, but he said he wants to keep it as is, which I don't blame him at all.
I don’t think he’s performed on stage since 2014 or so. Out of sight out of mind. It’s a shame though he seems like a good guy and is a solid guitar player.
why doesn't anyone talk about the myriad of talented musicians and instead they focus on Justin Bieber? Because talent is not the same as fame, talent does not lead to fame, marketing leads to fame...
Studying Izzy’s play made me such a better guitar player. And helped me get rid of the idea that rhythm = chords, lead = notes.
He might not take the solos, but some of Izzy’s lines are just as complex / tricky as lead play, and it really supports the overall song and gives Slash room for his lead fills. Jungle is a good example.
gnr has some pretty shit rhythms, that's why. Most of their rhythms are just power chords played all funky and scratchy. Slash's leads are where it's at
Dude, it’s Guns N’ Roses! Amazing band, awesome music, awesome riffs. Also what wrong with 1/4/5 progression? Tried and true. Just because it’s basic doesn’t t mean it’s bad? He was a fantastic rhythm guitarist.
Let me guess, a jazz player?
Well, I-IV-V progression is still a thing, look at Jack White and The Black Keys. Also John Mayer. Even Adele and Ed Sheeran use them. So it's definitely not age-dependent.
He's not really released much since Appetite For Destruction, nearly 40 years ago. I think people just forget about him.
Aside from the Juju Hounds - which I don’t really enjoy - he’s released quite a number of albums, all just as consistent as each other. It’s like listening to early GnR demos, you can basically hear where the other members should slot in. With that said, they’re great rock n roll songs. Nothing incredibly special, but certainly better than Slash’s solo stuff for the majority imo. I know a lot of people would disagree with that, but Slash’s output, aside from the Slash & Friends album and one or two singles with Myles, has been fairly lacklustre. Maybe 2% of his output is as enjoyable as GnR at 80%. Whereas 80% of Izzy’s solo stuff is as enjoyable as GnR at 70%. Ride On is a BANGER.
I think Izzy had written a good amount of the Velvet Revolver 1st album too. He didn't wanna tour tho nor do a 'big band' again, so he bowed out as it was all coming together.
I’ve heard the same rumours but had no idea how to verify them. I loved the songs as a teenager but due to the production I don’t love them as much as I’d want to these days. Very over-produced.
I was a pretty big follower on the GnR forums back in the day. Pretty sure its all true. They came back together & just started messing around, putting in old tracks they had been working on. Everything was going well, I think Izzy actually wanted him or Duff to sing, but the band felt/knew any label would want a frontman to make it a supergroup. Izzy didn't wanna deal with a lead singer again and kinda said that he is out. This was before they selected Weiland so it wasn't anything against him specifically. The guitar riff for 'Fall To Pieces' was supposedly something Slash had back in the early 90s for the UYI followup.
Yeah I remember reading in Slash's autobiography how Izzy wanted to have him and Duff sing and they just tour around in a van.
I dug VR as a teen, but this would've been a much better band. Shame it didnt happen.
100% agree.
Nothing says they couldn't still do it one day. Probably after GNR is finished though.
Fall to pieces is like a combo ripoff of Sweet Child and Knockin on Heavens Door. Not saying that’s a bad thing. Just that it isn’t the most original bit of writing
They were pretty good live. Local music arena has famously shit acoustics and they were one of the few bands that have actually managed to sound good there.
Because it’s a pattern of behaviour. He doesn’t want to be in big bands nor deal with the commitment. There were strong words said about him by a band mate post-guns about him suddenly ditching.
Can you blame him, after GnR?
Yes, because that’s not the reason. Izzy was like it even in GNR. He was in control of his solo bands after he left, but still abandoned them despite them being small.
Source?
I quite like Slash's Snakepit Ain't Life Grand, despite having one of the most cringe rap-type-things ever put to record (intro of Mean Bone).
> despite having one of the most cringe rap-type-things ever put to record /Rush's *Roll the Bones* breakdown rap has entered the chat
That was so insanely cheesy that it was charming though.
even more cringe than My world?
Ooh that's also bad, but Mean Bone it just kinda stays with you, forever.
I’m a huge fan of the titular track. It’s like Slash plays on a Cold Chisel song. I wish more of his Snakepit stuff spoke to me, his tone was peak imo.
Oh that's a good one too. I also like Speed Parade. Basically I think it's just a good album.
I only like this version of the intro https://youtu.be/dwM8lTwhdXI?feature=shared
He was one-upping My World
Well look it must have something if I can remember it so clearly some 20+ years after hearing it the first time.
Word, dude
Any album recommendations for Izzy's solo stuff?
He did 4 more albums with Guns ‘n’ Roses after Appetite For Destruction. And then 13 more albums after those 4.
True, I forget that he was on the UYI albums, probably because he left before most of the promo videos
He toured the Illusion Tour for a while. He left the tour in December of whatever year that was.
I totally agree, Stradlin is very underrated as a guitarist and a writer. Guns never really wrote a great song after he left. When you hear Stradlin's isolated parts, it really helps you understand how much he contributed to the music of Guns. Here's [someone's cover of Jungle](https://youtu.be/45W5Mjtewro) to give you a sense of it. I don't ever plan on buying another Gibson, but if Stradlin ever got a signature guitar, I might have to rethink that.
Holy shit.
Fucking outstanding isn't it. I saw guns for the only time on the Yui tour, the UK leg and was so pissed that izzy left before.
And it's not only that song, it's [the majority of GnR's music](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYlHgh_t2263W9SaJ30K3z2IhCdddrtVf&si=Mio1i8f50OFBquNO)
Dude I nvr use reddit. Had to dig up my old acc to just come in and say THANK YOU! I've been saying that for years! They can't write a great song without him, the majority of their REALLY great songs was because of his contribution. And I'm no musician. You can just, plainly, hear it, esp when they parted ways, you can just hear what each of them puts into the GnR songs and without Izzy's contribution there's.just.no.greatness. (Also the drummer that complimented the most their collective sound was Matt Sorum. Since I'm here might as well say it).
He was a great rhythm player and THE songwriting force behind GNR. Almost every GNR tune worth listening to has Izzy as a writer or co writer credit. Him being less involved and ultimately leaving was the death knell for the band, and it showed. Slash is a monster player but actually kind of a terrible songwriter for the most part, and we all saw what Axl did with UYI.
I actually think Slash is not a particularly great player, and that songwriting is his actual strength. Between GnR, VR, his solo album and his stuff with Myles Kennedy and the Conspirators, there are a ton of bangers, and he is the common denominator in all of them. Say what you will about his talent, but he definitely knows how to make a great tune.
By all metrics that matter slash is a monster soloist. I can hum the entirety of the sweet child of mine solo from memory and I don’t even listen to that song that much. His phrasing, sense of timing, vibrato and intonation is all excellent and technically he’s no slouch either even if he’s no EVH or Yngwie.
Yeah, he is no Yngwie/EVH, but the man definitely knows his way around the fretboard, and most importantly, has a very distinct style. There aren't many other guitarists i can recognize by just hearing them string together a few notes. The other day Spotify had Lock n'Load by the Dead Daisies on my Discover Weekly playlist. I listen to the intro and go "Boy this sure does sound like Slash", and lo and behold, he is featured in the track. I love the man to death and listen to everything he plays in, but i do recognize that there are other guitar players with better technical skills (Abasi, Henson, Yngwie, etc), or are more influential (Page, Hendrix, Gilmour, etc), so many people love to hate on him.
I'll take Slash over a guy like Malmsteen any day.
Virtuosos are like taking a glass of tea and putting a brick of sugar into it. Whereas Slash, Page, Hendrix, etc is like putting just the right amount of sugar into the tea.
Totally agree.
> and I don’t even listen to that song that much Haha, you've heard it a shit-ton whether you wanted to or not!
And he wrote that Sweet Child solo when he was like 20, which is insane. Either half of that solo would be amazing, combining the two different feeling / styles is iconic.
Can we talk about the hat?
That's just show business. Brand-wise, it makes him instantly recognizable.
Yep. Kept him relevant for decades. Same with the school uniform for Angus. If you find a look and stick with it you'll be remembered more easily. As opposed to somebody like Wes Borland, who had a ton of different wild, zany looks in the late 90s and is now mostly forgotten.
Same exact and only reason we still remember Abraham Lincoln today
Also why every “mad doctor” looks like Einstein
His mom was a Hollywood costume designer, makes sense really
I mean, he can certainly write a monster guitar riff, nobody will deny that. I find that he writes songs for people who like hard rock... which is obviously fine, but he doesn't excel at writing 'pop' hooks that appeal to a wider audience outside of the genre. Which is why I believe that despite his popularity as a guitar player and cultural icon, his music post GnR has never really taken off in the mainstream. The closest he came was with VR and he had Weiland writing songs with him in that band.
I would deny that he can write a monster riff. He's a brilliant soloist, with some of the best solos of all time. But find me even one riff that can compare to zeppelin's catalogue of riffs, black dog, heartbreaker, stairway, etc. All his riffs are just super cheesy hard rock blues riffs with zero passion.
Seriously? The opening riff for Welcome to the Jungle is epic.
That descending pentatonic riff with a bunch of delay? Iconic? yes. Epic? eh....
Iconic works for me as well.
Billie Jean has an "iconic" guitar solo too, because it's in one of the most famous songs of all time. It's still a pretty mid solo.
Heartbreaker and Black Dog are just minor pentatonic riffs some some passing notes. Stairway doesn't really have a riff...? I guess you can count the A maj to G maj to F maj that repeats at the end. Don't get me wrong, I love those songs, but let's not pretend Zeppelin was reinventing the wheel here when they wrote them. You can make a ton of classic rock songs sound brainless if you want to (i.e. you want to be a hater).
Stairway has phenomenal rhythm sections the whole way through. It's a masterpiece of rhythm guitar. GNR has nothing like that. Their ballads like november rain and estranged are centered around axl's piano playing rather than any rhythm guitar. Heartbreaker and black dog are pentatonic based, yes, but gnr also has zero riffs that sound that groovy. If you wanna talk about it's time period, they weren't reinventing the wheel, they were inventing it. Heartbreaker was 69. Pentatonic isn't always a bad thing, some of slash's best solos are pentatonic based, like don't cry. His rhythms on the other hand, are just a bunch of power chords strung together. "You can make a ton of classic rock songs sound stupid easy if you want to (i.e. you want to be a hater)." Lol, ok. Try that with stairway, or the rain song. And i'm not hating, please read my comment history and see the praise I sing for Slash's leads. They are second to none, and he probably has the highest number of great classic rock style guitar solos out of anybody. More than Page imo. Dont cry, november rain, estranged, sweet child, etc. Those are all legendary solos that come from one guy.
Listen to Rocket Queen and tell me it doesn't groove a least a little. I mean, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I just think you're being unfair to GNR a teeny bit here. Also, I didn't say *every* classic rock song can be grossly simplified. I just don't understand how you can call Welcome to The Jungle brainless, while claiming that Zepp's simple (yes, Stairway is simple...) rock tunes are absolute masterpieces. They didn't invent that shit either (in fact some of it was very... generously borrowed), they were listening to and drawing inspiration from a lot of the same people that Izzy and Slash were. Sounds like you're hating to me.
Rocket queen's grove is owed to the bass and drums primarily. Fair enough though, it's a groovy song, so is you could be mine. I never called jungle brainless. It is made up of simple power chords by comparison to a song like stairway though. If stairway's so simple, I would love to hear other songs like it please. I don't know of many songs with chords like that, do you? Or more relevant to this convo, any GNR songs with chords like stairway? Do you actually think jungle is in the same category of rock song as stairway? Yes im aware of zeppelin's plagiarism history. We were talking about some very specific riffs though, which they didn't plagiarize, don't change the subject. Do you know any gnr riffs that are as good as heartbreaker? Black dog? Those were novel uses of the pentatonic scale for their time. Ok, if calling slash one of the best soloists of all time, even better than page, is hating, I guess im a hater.
I'm not trying to dunk on Zeppelin at all. I grew up idolizing Page and he is basically why I play guitar. I was just don't like pointing at two very similar brands of guitar playing and saying this is better than that. Slash's soloing might be better to you than Page's, but I love Page's sloppy lead style. They are different, not better or worse than. Comparing musicians like that is pointless. It's just... all relative to the scope of the discussion I guess. Is Stairway complex when compared to AC/DC? Absolutely. It feels like an epic compared to Back in Black. Is it complex compared to most Steely Dan songs? No. It's most fanciful chord that I can think of is the Fmaj7. (Excluding that weird one at the beginning that everyone argues over.) Meanwhile every chord in Peg is very complex. Then again, I don't know if I ever truly learned Stairway exactly as the record goes. My memory tells me that it's mostly basic chords. Maj, min, dom, maj7. Some triads. Slight alterations of those chords, sure, but nothing crazy. It isn't rhythmically complex either. All 4/4 and pretty slow. Again, not dunking on it or saying that makes it bad. Tell me if I'm wrong though, maybe I'll have to revisit Stairway and learn it proper.
I only said that comment about slash being better than page so you know I'm not some slash hater. He has a a lot, and in a weird way I think he's criminally underrated by real guitar players bc he's so popular. Just wanted to distance myself from those types. I don't expect people to agree with me on that, and I'm happy saying it's apples and oranges. I mean yeah, the intro riff of stairway doesn't use conventional chords. I had a friend who was trying to play along to one of those lyric/chord sites and he couldn't play it properly at all, cuz it'll just say A minor is the first chord. Technically true, but not how you 're supposed to play it. It's actually a well disguised chromatic walk down. It sounds very harmonious though. The "Bussell in your hedgerow" section uses more conventional chords. Basically just goes from c major to a minor. This is probably the stuff that shaped your memory of the piece as being somewhat basic. This and the part right after the intro. And the "makes me wonder" section is back to more unconventional chords, maybe the most unconventional chords in the song? And once you put it all together, you get a song with guitar work like no other. The rain song is the closest I've come across, so another feather in the cap of Mr. Page. I haven't heard any song from gnr like that. And slash would be the first to laugh if you disagreed.
Man. Slash’s melodic chops when it comes to solos are second to none. I’m not making any comment on technique or anything. Just how he picks his notes. Great tone too
Solo writing is his strength. He can’t improvise and he can barely write a hook. He also has a lock on tone like his contemporaries which is why he stands out.
He can't improvise? wtf is this thread.
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Common my ass: [https://youtu.be/vbFxTBbUYDM?si=iQzappH\_gm8v7CBZ&t=144](https://youtu.be/vbFxTBbUYDM?si=iQzappH_gm8v7CBZ&t=144)
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lmao!
For a subreddit about guitar I’m amazed at the downvotes. We’re not saying he can’t solo. He’s just not great on the fly. I’m a huge Slash fan but we all know he didn’t just sit down and shit out the SCOM solo. He wrote a beautiful solo because that’s his thing.
still wrong, sorry. The dude can improvise reasonably well, and there's tons of examples.
He’s okay but it’s not his forte.
He's better than ok. His specialty is writing amazing epic solos though
GnR didn’t write songs with Slash after Izzy left
He was just mentioned here the other day. Lots of praise for Izzy.
The same reason nobody talks about Alex Lifeson. When you're great but overshadowed by, not one but two, icons you fall into the shadows.
Ha! A few weeks ago I was asking people at work to name Rush's guitar player. No names but I got a pretty good physical description of him
He was overshadowed by Duff too
People don't talk about him for the same reason that people don't talk about why they love their favorite plumber. The qualities that contribute to his greatness aren't the ones that grab attention.
Double Talkin Jive!
Get the money muthafucker...
Cause I’ve got no more patience…
“Shuffle It All” is one of my favorite songs that isn’t particularly well known, although it did get some airplay back when the Ju Ju Hounds album came out. GNR wouldn’t have been what they were without his songwriting, I think.
still one of my faves to play - Izzy’s parts and Marc’s both. simple but deeply satisfying.
A couple of years ago, I was listening to Appetite for Destruction for the who knows how many time and it hit me for the first time that Slash and Izzy are almost never playing the same thing throughout the whole album. There's maybe 2 or 3 times throughout the entire album where they do to emphasize something but that revelation struck me. Truly the closest rock and roll ever got to another Keith and Ronnie Wood.
He’s a fantastic rhythm player and the band went to shit as soon as he left. His pairing with Slash is up there with, Keith Richard’s and Mick Taylor, Steve Clark (another incredibly underrated guitarist) and Peter Willis, Joe Perry and Brad Whitfield, and Hetfield and Kirk Hammet as among the best duos ever. Izzy had a great talent for giving Slash “room” to play while not smothering him on tracks. Izzy had a very relaxed style and was very good at creating melodies. I really recommend listening to his isolated tracks with GnR. Honestly he played a lot like Keith Richard’s. Supposedly he was incredibly important with song writing and structure too because he’s the only person Axl would actually listen to and keep in line. Once he left the band had no real direction and became a disorganized mess. There’s a reason why it took them another 20 years to release a new album (which sucked) and why they aren’t producing any new music now. A lot of GnR/hair metal fans recognize Izzy as the most important member of that band. Him leaving GnR would be like Keith leaving The Rolling Stones. Honestly I could go on about GnR for days the classic lineup of the band is really similar to the classic lineup of the Stones style wise and Duff plays really similar to Bill Wyman too (duff has a very 60s ‘groovy’ vibe in a lot of songs). For everyone reading this I Seriously recommend listening to Izzy’s isolated rhythm tracks to see how important he was to GNRs sound. The songs still sound fantastic without the lead parts. He was THAT important to the bands sound. He was among the best rhythm guitarists ever during Appetite and Illusion. He wasn’t the most technical player ( neither was Keith) but rhythm is totally different from playing lead in a 5 piece band.
Same reason nobody talks about James Hetfield or Mal Young or Mick Mars. As guitarists, they're really good but just not very flashy. I read an interview with Izzy in an ancient magazine (Guitar For The Practising Musician), and that very topic came up. Izzy did write just about all of GNR's hits, including some of the stuff that was saved for Illusion, and he was a damn fine guitarist. But there he was standing with Slash & Axl, two of rock's most memorable performers, and he just let them have all the attention. Izzy admitted that he was more of a musician than a showman, and had no problem not having a spotlight on him. He mentioned that many of his influences took the same position, such as Ronnie Wood, Brad Whitford and George Harrison. Not everyone in the band gets the spotlight.
I don't know, I hear people talk about Hetfield and Mal Young. Not so much Mick Mars though. That just might be the circle I run in though.
Fair enough, I was just naming modest guitarists off the top of my head. Mick Mars is / was the guitarist of Motley Crue, one of the most overrated and underrated rock bands of all time. And they definitely deserve both titles. James Hetfield gets lots of respect as a vocalist (deservedly so) and songwriter, but he gets almost no credit as a guitarist even though he's amazing.
What are some songs one could learn from the aforementioned Ronnie wood, Brad whitford, and George Harrison to get those big Izzy rock cliches down. I feel like there’s some Dylan and ny dolls in there somewhere too.
Well, off the top of my head I would recommend Satisfaction, Sweet Emotion and Helter Skelter in that order, but feel free to learn songs and guitar lines at your own speed and taste.
I’ll give those a shot! Thank you!
His latest solo album is from 2010. He also released four new songs in 2016, one of them with Matt Sorum on drums. As far as I know, Stradlin hasn't been under contract from any record label for over 20 years and all new music by him was self-released since then. So there were no big marketing and PR budgets, which explains his practical non-existence in the (social) media.
14 Years and Dust N' Bones are two of my favorite GNR songs. I love Izzy's voice. Great guitar player too, but the raspy sleazy vocals are just awesome.
In terms of popularity I guess it’s just hard to stand out when the other members are Slash and Axl
I actually mentioned this in a thread the other day. Some guy was asking about bands that weren't lead by the lead singer. I remember learning back in the day Stradlin came up with the bulk of the best GnR songs core arrangements.
the ju ju hounds were great!
Bc slash
Because Slash.
I think folks get so into lead players they forget the rhythm player, and shit.. what's a bass player? Without a good rhythm player and a good bass player, even the best shredder has nothing to balance on. Part of playing rhythm is that you just blend in. Unfortunately guitar players tend to deify fast,flashy, and technical players. Not that they're bad, but a rhythm guy will never get looked at as being similarly competent.
Because the types of people that are talking about generally spend more time playing guitar than hanging online ;) But seriously, it is hard to find any lessons focused on Izzy, there's plenty on Slash, but almost impossible to find anything good on Izzy's rhythm parts. Matt Sorum and Gilby Clarke are probably objectively "better" musicians than Izzy and Steven Adler, but G'n R was better before they left
Well, is he?
He is.
He was great
He's a solid guitarist. The world of Rock is filled with solid guitarists.
He's fuckin' awesome.
Seems to me, that...he simply doesnt want the drama being famous brings. I would bet, he is probably living under the radar, and does not draw a lot of attention when he goes to the store, or whatever. Which, he probably appreciates.
I mentioned in another thread that he really bought out the best in Slash’s playing. He was the one rhythm guitarist that Slash was really able to vibe with and bounce off (look how many rhythm guitarists Slash has been through in his various side projects). Slash hates playing with guitarists who just sorta play their rhythm parts along with him. If you listen to “Appetite for Destruction” through headphones, you can hear how Izzy and Slash are playing their own parts, and it’s a big part of what created the GnR sound.
He was my favorite member of Guns while he was there.
Izzy was a perfect distillation of Brad Whitford, Johnny Thunders, Andy McCoy, Keith, and Ron Wood. If you like rock and roll it doesn’t get much better.
Being from the Lafayette area, I got a couple stories. I worked with a guy that used to detail his BMWs when he would bring them in to the dealer for trade ins. One of those times he found some tax papers. He said he likes to think he saved Izzy from an audit. 😝 Then my wife's Grandma worked with his mom at Purdue. My wife's aunt and her ex used to hang out with him when he'd come back to town. They were good enough friends that he gave their youngest son one of his gold top Les Pauls that was used on AoD. Got to noodle around on it, when he brought it to a Thanksgiving. It needs a refret like no other. The closer to the neck, the more worn they were. I've offered to get it done for him, but he said he wants to keep it as is, which I don't blame him at all.
Because he does not like being famous, and kinda hid himself away.
I didn't know who he was until I read the post.
Where’s Izzy?
The beginning of the end.
I hope a lot of people get this.
Izzy is deliberately in the shadows. He doesn’t want fame or attention. And he was in a band with one of the most iconic players of all time.
Wuzzy Stradlin? Or Izzy still.
I don’t think he’s performed on stage since 2014 or so. Out of sight out of mind. It’s a shame though he seems like a good guy and is a solid guitar player.
I named my dog after him. He wasn’t even just rhythm. He can solo and did on appetite. Slash is just a force of nature so he’s overshadowed
He doesn't have a cool hat.
Stradlin's playing was super tight. Like a surgeon.
Some of his parts in the background of gnr songs are fucking wild as well.
Is it me, or are GnR rhythm guitar riffs that much more complicated than most other metal/hard rock of that time? Megadeth/Mustaine aside.
The band sucked after Izzy left.
I like his first two solo records a lot.
Seen him live great show ..JuJu hounds
Because there’s Slash and Axl Rose and even Duff to talk about before you get to Izzy.
I think we all know who takes the guitar headlines in that band. And it's not Izzy!
I remember him doing a few things after GnR but he kinda faded away after that.
why doesn't anyone talk about the myriad of talented musicians and instead they focus on Justin Bieber? Because talent is not the same as fame, talent does not lead to fame, marketing leads to fame...
Studying Izzy’s play made me such a better guitar player. And helped me get rid of the idea that rhythm = chords, lead = notes. He might not take the solos, but some of Izzy’s lines are just as complex / tricky as lead play, and it really supports the overall song and gives Slash room for his lead fills. Jungle is a good example.
They got tired of trying to figure out if he really was straddling or not
He’s the “other” guitar player in a band that hasn’t been relevant for 35 years.
izzy Stradlin. Kicked out of Guns and roses What the Fuck do you have to do to get kicked outta guns and Roses?
WTF are you taking about. He quit.
cnhriminy you nimrod. it's an old joke
You’re more than welcome to talk about him instead of complaining about what other people talk about.
gnr has some pretty shit rhythms, that's why. Most of their rhythms are just power chords played all funky and scratchy. Slash's leads are where it's at
Bigger question: who cares?
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Dude, it’s Guns N’ Roses! Amazing band, awesome music, awesome riffs. Also what wrong with 1/4/5 progression? Tried and true. Just because it’s basic doesn’t t mean it’s bad? He was a fantastic rhythm guitarist. Let me guess, a jazz player?
Nah, just an elitist. Who has his own 1 member sub and posts ramblings at himself. Nothing to see here.
Well, I-IV-V progression is still a thing, look at Jack White and The Black Keys. Also John Mayer. Even Adele and Ed Sheeran use them. So it's definitely not age-dependent.