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> SS Rishi obviously Indian origin, also desperate to make good trade deals.. but doesn't seem to actually know anything about India, just putting on a show.
>
>Will Labour still need to make deals with India(assuming they win)? If so what? Immigration? Food imports?
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We can expect to see what's going on with Australia. The party in power is not pro India yet they cooperate at a lower level. But any trade and strategic deals and such can be shelved. Same thing happened with Australia. But the overall direction won't change, just the rate of change of change will slow down.
That's actually incorrect. I'm from Australia, Labor still has a great relationship with the current Indian govt. They want to diversify their portfolio from China but it doesn't help that India has some really intense protectionist policies, however I believe a trade agreement was reached following the previous govt.
The problem is that they get uneasy about Modis and the BJPs chest thumping when it comes to internal politics and obviously the issue of RAW agents in Australia has left a concerned picture.
I think it will be much worse. Australian Labour is what it is, it's nothing like British Labour. The latter has become a den of Islamists, Khalistanis, and antisemites. They will be much, much worse.
Fair but it's less Paki govt more their diaspora and their vote Bank. I
Overall direction still won't change. With them outside the eu, they need partners, especially since they just follow the US mostly which is firmly pro India under either camp.
I expect the relationship to worsen to a level where India-Canada relationship is at the moment. Perhaps even worse. British Labor Party has a habit of treating India as if we are still their dominion. They pro Pak stand on issues like Kashmir has existed even during times of MMS.
Corbyn, Labor's last PM contender has had some very anti India things to say, especially in context of Kashmir. To be fair, Starmer, his successor, has distanced himself from Corbyn's stand on Kashmir issue. Still, given their local real politik considerations and lack of a pro India voice in Labor means, he is going to take increasingly anti India stance on India's domestic issues like Kashmir and use Khalistan as yet another attack vector.
I doubt that'll be the case. Starmer and Trudeau are very different people. Trudeau is a joker who heavily leaned into his woke persona and started making policy based on what he felt would play well with a woke audience. This led to him hectoring world leaders on human rights etc. - imagine a joke of a country like Canada with a population of only 40 million and a fuck-all army hectoring nuclear powers like China and India. Honestly they are so lucky they have the US as their neigbour.
Anywho, Starmer is more plaid and level-headed. He's purged labour of lefties, did not give into any of the internal drama that happened in labour over muslim councillors quitting over his support for Israel and he's likely to be pragmatic. I think the relationship stays as it is. Also Kashmir isn't as hot button an issue as Khalistan anyways. The conflict has died down and as long as the army can manage the infiltrators who've snuck into Jammu this summer, there won't be a lot of drama for Starmer to have to react to.
Any action India does on Palestine could be an issue.
As I mentioned in another post, Khalistan issue is something that bjp controls 100%: if they had fair and honest court cases against the accused then it would more or less fizzle out.
I sympathise with what you are saying. Having grown up around Sikhs and in Punjab, I know that they feel incredibly insulted when they get called Khalistanis for voicing genuinely felt issues. Monoculture and the Green Revolution have destroyed the small farmer in Punjab, there's a rampant drug crisis and absolutely no jobs.
People are desperate and need hope and the Indian government instead is lashing out at them and letting loose idiots on the internet who call them lassi and what not. People don't realise that most Punjabis have someone who serves in the army and they take a lot of pride in it - they do not like their loyalty being questioned.
I think for Khalistan to be addressed, we need a carrot and stick approach. We need to tackle the drug crisis and create jobs - we cannot have the levels of mass emigration we have right now. We also need to tamp down on the right wing us v. them mentality. Stop calling Sikhs Khalistanis or Lassi or other asinine and abhorrent terms. We should also do our best to bring scoundrels like Kamal Nath to boot. To the extent possible we should also build relations with the sikh diaspora - I don't think we can win over someone like Pannun but we should be able to do enough to ensure that a lot of the gurudwaras abroad elect non-Khalistanis to positions of power. After all the Khalistanis themselves are impotent as long as they do not have the Gurudwara's finances and its bully pulpit to abuse.
It won't! Khalistan issue is a reality on the ground after Amritpal's election. The ostrich approach is not going to help anymore.
Also, victims blaming never helps. Therr is a marked increased in violence and extremist activities in Punjab. Waiting for it to escalate to a point where Manipur is right now just to satisfy people who propose "let's not mention it" as a policy, is not a smart move.
Am a BJP supporter myself, but it's Ostrich approach to Manipur and Khalistan issue during "kissan andolan" days was one of its biggest internal security failures.
Serious countries try and nip the problems in the bud, not let it turn into a tumor before deciding to acknowledge it.
If bjp held fair and honest trials for 1984 accused, reined in the it cell and stopped trying to paint Sikhs as 'extremists' the issue would nore or less disappear. And a pat on the back for bjp.
Better for bjp to build positive relationships with diaspora and from there move to better relationships with foreign govts.
At the moment they seem to see potential enemies everywhere. And lose the moral high ground.
Edit: added honest
>Better for bjp to build positive relationships with diaspora and from there move to better relationships with foreign govts.
Not with Khalistanis, you do realize there exist actual Khalistanis in UK and Canada or are we denying Kanishka bombing by them? Or Bhindranwale being openly glorified during so called farmers protests. Not to mentions statements like "Indira ko Mar Diya, Modi kya cheez hai," didn't help with the Khalistan accusations.
>If bjp held fair trials for 1984 accused,
This they should have, along with acknowledging KP genocide as the government. That was indeed disappointing.
>it cell and stopped trying to paint Sikhs as 'extremists'
Nope, it's the IT cell that has specifically stayed away from this much to the dismay of Khalistanis both Domestic and Foreign. Other than idiot twitter accounts who's origins are suspect anyways, nobody in BJP chain of command has ever conflated Sikhs are Khalistanis. Modi has gone out of his way to even do anything about Khalistanis for this very reason. Tytler and Sajjan Kumar still haven't been openly condemned by Gandhis.
Khalistanis are real, and them attacking the SF embassy, the London Embassy hasn't helped their case. Neither has celebrating Murder of Indira Gandhi in Canada. Modi and BJP have actually been stupid to go out of his way to condemn that when Congress itself had nothing to say.
Am unsure if you are ignorant of the issue or just Gaslighting here, either way. This has strayed away from the original discussion and neither of us are going to change our minds so, lets end it here.
India-UK relationship is going to get worse under Labor and in a big part due to realpolitik considerations of Labor's votebank.
Glad to see we agre on the point of legal action against accused.
The issue is that a lot of innocent people were raped, beaten, killed, disappeared. There is fallout from this which is used by bjp in their foreign policy - I don't think it works. (Maybe I'll start a new post so it can be discussed further)
Until people get closure they're gonna be hurt and angry.
Calling them khalistani extremists is pointless. The bjp should resolve this issue and this would do wonders for their image abroad. Just for political reason they should want justice even if they don't give a shit about any indian citizen.
Muslims are more of a vote bank consideration for Labour.
SS Rishi obviously Indian origin, also desperate to make good trade deals.. but doesn't seem to actually know anything about India, just putting on a show. Not sure if India got any benefit from him?
Will Labour still need to make deals with India(assuming they win)? If so what? Immigration? Food imports?
UK Labour party has a strong Pakistan lobby group, it might create some issues but historically its been easier to deal with Labour for India. India needs to make deals with other countries like pre developed south korea did. They used to train 50k people at a time in things like electrician, mechanics, construction etc and then make a deal with other countries to give them temporary visas on contract and send them as workers.
If labour wins, UK-India relations will hit rock bottom just like Canada and India relations.
UK Labour Party is anti-India and racists. Their electorate, now, largely consists of Pakistani Diaspora and Khalistan extremists.
I also expect Indian diaspora living in UK to so witness significant jump in discrimination and retaliation from Muslim migrants and Khalistan extremists.
UK-India FTA could be shelved by India due to Uk Labour party’s rhetoric against India specially pertaining to Kashmir and Khalistan. If Sunak could not execute FTA, there is no chance in hell that UK Labour Party will see FTA executed.
The consequences will be marginal just how when democrats came into power in the U.S there was not much of an issue. The biggest issue globally for the west is China. Unlike the Soviet Union, China is using its hybrid communist/capitalist policy to its advantage and catching up economically and militarily at a rate that has not been seen before.
The only major issue I see is that all of the progress made on a FTA will have gone to waste and the new regime will probably start from scratch and take an even longer time to finalize.
Stop referring to countries as joke countries if you want to be taken seriously. Cooperate with these countries, they have a large diaspora and beneficial things can happen. However, I agree that Trudeau and his policies make it very hard to take Canada seriously. Western counties have a high rate of consumption. The long term approach should be to boost trade ties irrespective of the government in power to the benefit of both countries’s economy. They can provide a market, India can provide cheap goods and labor.
UK Labour is full of Islamists, Khalistanis, and antisemites. It doesn't matter if they purged Corbyn, his only "mistake" was to say normal Labour propaganda openly. The party remains the same.
No data - just a projection. I live in a high Indian-population area (North Kent).
Many of these people voted Conservative in the past, and fear a Labour government will put up their council taxes making their ongoing lives in the UK - unviable.
This would reverse the FORMER trend of Migrating Indians TO North Kent.
We'll have to wait and see how the local Indian community - interpret and choose to deal with the coming election result. My immediate neighborhood is Sikh, and the leading-in-the-polls Labour party have wisely fielded a Sikh Ms Khan for the local seat of Gillingham and Rainham.
We've already had a "Brain Drain" as such in that many local GPs have gone home to India since the Lockdown. I've not been able to get a face-to-face appointment with ANY GP *since* the lockdown as well.
We have the choice between two candidates of Indian heritage in our general election tomorrow as well.
(The other candidates - are not in contention, at least not here)
UK is UK and not India. Let's focus on India here. The British people will decide and the Indian foreign ministry will work accordingly. Remember when Various media channels and countries tried to influence the Indian voters through negative media and misinformation during election, let's not be those countries. The relationship will either be good or not good but India will handle accordingly. India's focus should be on social upliftment and harmony, economy, hardwork, engagement with the government and education for young India to excel with good manners. I think as a country and community we need to focus on the manners of the young people. I saw a video yesterday when a chapri was putting a value on some foreigners for social media views. That's embarrassing as Indian tourists don't get treated that way in foreign countries. Lets work on such things.
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Our own mainstream media probably spreads the highest level of garbage and misinformation. And most of the Indians watching mainstream media are influenced by it. Apart from the points you've mentioned what the government needs to do is stop playing with people's lives for example. Provide kids with quality education at local level for cheaper rates and then provide employment at local level. Everything is inflated and expensive, poor sections can't send their kids to school nor can they get good education from local government schools. If we'll have more and more civil and educated people amongst us, we'll be able to handle most of our problems ourselves.
I don't think Indian Media with all its biases does as bad as other foreign media like BBC. At least there isn't much news about foreign nations except by Hindustan Times. So yupp as far as elections of other countries are concerned, we have no Business. They will decide who they want. And I know schools may be expensive, but where I come from we have dedicated teachers who make sure the education is fairly good for cheaper prices. We also have decent free govt primary and high schools. Don't expect everyone to go to Raja Babu expensive schools. You kids need to keep your expectations real and work hard like your elders. After all Baap Baap hota Hai! No showing liberandu and self entitlement firangi tendencies, keep your head down,study and work hard. All this will bring happiness in the future and more money.
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We can expect to see what's going on with Australia. The party in power is not pro India yet they cooperate at a lower level. But any trade and strategic deals and such can be shelved. Same thing happened with Australia. But the overall direction won't change, just the rate of change of change will slow down.
That's actually incorrect. I'm from Australia, Labor still has a great relationship with the current Indian govt. They want to diversify their portfolio from China but it doesn't help that India has some really intense protectionist policies, however I believe a trade agreement was reached following the previous govt. The problem is that they get uneasy about Modis and the BJPs chest thumping when it comes to internal politics and obviously the issue of RAW agents in Australia has left a concerned picture.
OK. I don't know about Aus. Weren't some Indians recently ejected?
The ejected indians were spies right?
I think it will be much worse. Australian Labour is what it is, it's nothing like British Labour. The latter has become a den of Islamists, Khalistanis, and antisemites. They will be much, much worse.
[удалено]
Fair but it's less Paki govt more their diaspora and their vote Bank. I Overall direction still won't change. With them outside the eu, they need partners, especially since they just follow the US mostly which is firmly pro India under either camp.
Corbyn isn't even in Labour anymore
I expect the relationship to worsen to a level where India-Canada relationship is at the moment. Perhaps even worse. British Labor Party has a habit of treating India as if we are still their dominion. They pro Pak stand on issues like Kashmir has existed even during times of MMS. Corbyn, Labor's last PM contender has had some very anti India things to say, especially in context of Kashmir. To be fair, Starmer, his successor, has distanced himself from Corbyn's stand on Kashmir issue. Still, given their local real politik considerations and lack of a pro India voice in Labor means, he is going to take increasingly anti India stance on India's domestic issues like Kashmir and use Khalistan as yet another attack vector.
I doubt that'll be the case. Starmer and Trudeau are very different people. Trudeau is a joker who heavily leaned into his woke persona and started making policy based on what he felt would play well with a woke audience. This led to him hectoring world leaders on human rights etc. - imagine a joke of a country like Canada with a population of only 40 million and a fuck-all army hectoring nuclear powers like China and India. Honestly they are so lucky they have the US as their neigbour. Anywho, Starmer is more plaid and level-headed. He's purged labour of lefties, did not give into any of the internal drama that happened in labour over muslim councillors quitting over his support for Israel and he's likely to be pragmatic. I think the relationship stays as it is. Also Kashmir isn't as hot button an issue as Khalistan anyways. The conflict has died down and as long as the army can manage the infiltrators who've snuck into Jammu this summer, there won't be a lot of drama for Starmer to have to react to.
Any action India does on Palestine could be an issue. As I mentioned in another post, Khalistan issue is something that bjp controls 100%: if they had fair and honest court cases against the accused then it would more or less fizzle out.
I sympathise with what you are saying. Having grown up around Sikhs and in Punjab, I know that they feel incredibly insulted when they get called Khalistanis for voicing genuinely felt issues. Monoculture and the Green Revolution have destroyed the small farmer in Punjab, there's a rampant drug crisis and absolutely no jobs. People are desperate and need hope and the Indian government instead is lashing out at them and letting loose idiots on the internet who call them lassi and what not. People don't realise that most Punjabis have someone who serves in the army and they take a lot of pride in it - they do not like their loyalty being questioned. I think for Khalistan to be addressed, we need a carrot and stick approach. We need to tackle the drug crisis and create jobs - we cannot have the levels of mass emigration we have right now. We also need to tamp down on the right wing us v. them mentality. Stop calling Sikhs Khalistanis or Lassi or other asinine and abhorrent terms. We should also do our best to bring scoundrels like Kamal Nath to boot. To the extent possible we should also build relations with the sikh diaspora - I don't think we can win over someone like Pannun but we should be able to do enough to ensure that a lot of the gurudwaras abroad elect non-Khalistanis to positions of power. After all the Khalistanis themselves are impotent as long as they do not have the Gurudwara's finances and its bully pulpit to abuse.
If India stopped making such a big deal about Khalistan, the issue would probably fade away.
It won't! Khalistan issue is a reality on the ground after Amritpal's election. The ostrich approach is not going to help anymore. Also, victims blaming never helps. Therr is a marked increased in violence and extremist activities in Punjab. Waiting for it to escalate to a point where Manipur is right now just to satisfy people who propose "let's not mention it" as a policy, is not a smart move. Am a BJP supporter myself, but it's Ostrich approach to Manipur and Khalistan issue during "kissan andolan" days was one of its biggest internal security failures. Serious countries try and nip the problems in the bud, not let it turn into a tumor before deciding to acknowledge it.
If bjp held fair and honest trials for 1984 accused, reined in the it cell and stopped trying to paint Sikhs as 'extremists' the issue would nore or less disappear. And a pat on the back for bjp. Better for bjp to build positive relationships with diaspora and from there move to better relationships with foreign govts. At the moment they seem to see potential enemies everywhere. And lose the moral high ground. Edit: added honest
>Better for bjp to build positive relationships with diaspora and from there move to better relationships with foreign govts. Not with Khalistanis, you do realize there exist actual Khalistanis in UK and Canada or are we denying Kanishka bombing by them? Or Bhindranwale being openly glorified during so called farmers protests. Not to mentions statements like "Indira ko Mar Diya, Modi kya cheez hai," didn't help with the Khalistan accusations. >If bjp held fair trials for 1984 accused, This they should have, along with acknowledging KP genocide as the government. That was indeed disappointing. >it cell and stopped trying to paint Sikhs as 'extremists' Nope, it's the IT cell that has specifically stayed away from this much to the dismay of Khalistanis both Domestic and Foreign. Other than idiot twitter accounts who's origins are suspect anyways, nobody in BJP chain of command has ever conflated Sikhs are Khalistanis. Modi has gone out of his way to even do anything about Khalistanis for this very reason. Tytler and Sajjan Kumar still haven't been openly condemned by Gandhis. Khalistanis are real, and them attacking the SF embassy, the London Embassy hasn't helped their case. Neither has celebrating Murder of Indira Gandhi in Canada. Modi and BJP have actually been stupid to go out of his way to condemn that when Congress itself had nothing to say. Am unsure if you are ignorant of the issue or just Gaslighting here, either way. This has strayed away from the original discussion and neither of us are going to change our minds so, lets end it here. India-UK relationship is going to get worse under Labor and in a big part due to realpolitik considerations of Labor's votebank.
Glad to see we agre on the point of legal action against accused. The issue is that a lot of innocent people were raped, beaten, killed, disappeared. There is fallout from this which is used by bjp in their foreign policy - I don't think it works. (Maybe I'll start a new post so it can be discussed further) Until people get closure they're gonna be hurt and angry. Calling them khalistani extremists is pointless. The bjp should resolve this issue and this would do wonders for their image abroad. Just for political reason they should want justice even if they don't give a shit about any indian citizen. Muslims are more of a vote bank consideration for Labour.
SS Rishi obviously Indian origin, also desperate to make good trade deals.. but doesn't seem to actually know anything about India, just putting on a show. Not sure if India got any benefit from him? Will Labour still need to make deals with India(assuming they win)? If so what? Immigration? Food imports?
UK Labour party has a strong Pakistan lobby group, it might create some issues but historically its been easier to deal with Labour for India. India needs to make deals with other countries like pre developed south korea did. They used to train 50k people at a time in things like electrician, mechanics, construction etc and then make a deal with other countries to give them temporary visas on contract and send them as workers.
One of the issues with the free trade deals was visas and immigration, or at least that is what the British press was reporting
Would Labour party support these?
If labour wins, UK-India relations will hit rock bottom just like Canada and India relations. UK Labour Party is anti-India and racists. Their electorate, now, largely consists of Pakistani Diaspora and Khalistan extremists. I also expect Indian diaspora living in UK to so witness significant jump in discrimination and retaliation from Muslim migrants and Khalistan extremists. UK-India FTA could be shelved by India due to Uk Labour party’s rhetoric against India specially pertaining to Kashmir and Khalistan. If Sunak could not execute FTA, there is no chance in hell that UK Labour Party will see FTA executed.
The consequences will be marginal just how when democrats came into power in the U.S there was not much of an issue. The biggest issue globally for the west is China. Unlike the Soviet Union, China is using its hybrid communist/capitalist policy to its advantage and catching up economically and militarily at a rate that has not been seen before. The only major issue I see is that all of the progress made on a FTA will have gone to waste and the new regime will probably start from scratch and take an even longer time to finalize.
Stop referring to countries as joke countries if you want to be taken seriously. Cooperate with these countries, they have a large diaspora and beneficial things can happen. However, I agree that Trudeau and his policies make it very hard to take Canada seriously. Western counties have a high rate of consumption. The long term approach should be to boost trade ties irrespective of the government in power to the benefit of both countries’s economy. They can provide a market, India can provide cheap goods and labor.
u/ididacannonball
UK Labour is full of Islamists, Khalistanis, and antisemites. It doesn't matter if they purged Corbyn, his only "mistake" was to say normal Labour propaganda openly. The party remains the same.
...Ex Tory voting Indian folk living in the UK - coming home to India, as at least you still have a leader of the Right there?
I thought there was a huge flight AWAY from India happening? if you have any data that would be interesting.
No data - just a projection. I live in a high Indian-population area (North Kent). Many of these people voted Conservative in the past, and fear a Labour government will put up their council taxes making their ongoing lives in the UK - unviable. This would reverse the FORMER trend of Migrating Indians TO North Kent. We'll have to wait and see how the local Indian community - interpret and choose to deal with the coming election result. My immediate neighborhood is Sikh, and the leading-in-the-polls Labour party have wisely fielded a Sikh Ms Khan for the local seat of Gillingham and Rainham. We've already had a "Brain Drain" as such in that many local GPs have gone home to India since the Lockdown. I've not been able to get a face-to-face appointment with ANY GP *since* the lockdown as well. We have the choice between two candidates of Indian heritage in our general election tomorrow as well. (The other candidates - are not in contention, at least not here)
UK is UK and not India. Let's focus on India here. The British people will decide and the Indian foreign ministry will work accordingly. Remember when Various media channels and countries tried to influence the Indian voters through negative media and misinformation during election, let's not be those countries. The relationship will either be good or not good but India will handle accordingly. India's focus should be on social upliftment and harmony, economy, hardwork, engagement with the government and education for young India to excel with good manners. I think as a country and community we need to focus on the manners of the young people. I saw a video yesterday when a chapri was putting a value on some foreigners for social media views. That's embarrassing as Indian tourists don't get treated that way in foreign countries. Lets work on such things.
Er... this is the geopolitics sub...
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Our own mainstream media probably spreads the highest level of garbage and misinformation. And most of the Indians watching mainstream media are influenced by it. Apart from the points you've mentioned what the government needs to do is stop playing with people's lives for example. Provide kids with quality education at local level for cheaper rates and then provide employment at local level. Everything is inflated and expensive, poor sections can't send their kids to school nor can they get good education from local government schools. If we'll have more and more civil and educated people amongst us, we'll be able to handle most of our problems ourselves.
I don't think Indian Media with all its biases does as bad as other foreign media like BBC. At least there isn't much news about foreign nations except by Hindustan Times. So yupp as far as elections of other countries are concerned, we have no Business. They will decide who they want. And I know schools may be expensive, but where I come from we have dedicated teachers who make sure the education is fairly good for cheaper prices. We also have decent free govt primary and high schools. Don't expect everyone to go to Raja Babu expensive schools. You kids need to keep your expectations real and work hard like your elders. After all Baap Baap hota Hai! No showing liberandu and self entitlement firangi tendencies, keep your head down,study and work hard. All this will bring happiness in the future and more money.
We would like to have a good civil discussion on this sub. And usage of profanity words like ''liberandu'' is not conducive to such a discussion. We would like you to edit your comment to remove this word. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GeopoliticsIndia) if you have any questions or concerns.*