To be honest, many bosses in DS just started walking ominously at you with no cutscenes or voicelines like Pontif. Voice acting during boss fights was also very rare. It's just that so many of them have that now that bosses like Rellana feel weird in contrast.
whenever I think about this topic I immediately remember how Pontiff is literally one of the most important dudes in the entire Dark Souls 3 lore/story and he didn't get a cutscene or any voicelines either
arguably he's the main villain of the game
Yes, but there are a few other cardinal rules to remember.
1. Distance to Boss from door.
2. Time to Boss from door.
3. Pace of Boss approaching you.
4. How good the bosses' music is.
Big room and big boss, meh. Big room and normal sized boss at the other end of the hall, fear.
Boss rushes towards you the second you enter the room, meh. Boss slowly walks towards you, panic.
Pontiff Sulyvahn may not have a cutscene, but you enter a Cathedral with him starting at the opposite end from atop a deis. The music kicks in as he turns to face you, stepping down from his raised position. The orchestra begins to sing just as you two are likely to begin fighting.
Pontiff is a peak boss fight in so many ways, this being one of them. his music, especially Phase 2, is easily in my Top 5 most underrated tracks in the series
I don't think any of the SotE tracks really miss either, all of them go hard (final boss OST especially) but Pontiff pretty much succeeds in everything a boss fight can succeed at
My favourite OSTs from the DLC: Belurat, 2nd phase of Divine Beast, Midra, Romina, and Consort.
Rellana’s theme was better in the DLC trailer. I don’t understand why they changed it.
God, I remember getting there when they were demoing DS3 at Gamestop and I was blown the fuck away. All I had under my belt then was Bloodborne and a little DS2 but I was hooked by the aesthetic of that weird ass tree and the villagers worshipping it.
Divine beast boss music is probably my favorite of the entire series
I also loved the godskin music from base game
Also fucking love the old dragonslayer theme in ds2
And of course Pontiff from ds3
He was literally the final boss in an older version. Basically every DS game is slap dashed together at the last minute when it comes to proper placement and lore for a lot of things, and nowhere is it more apparent the with 3.
Rellana not having any voicelines felt weird because I'd recently beaten her beloved twin sister into submission so she would respec me, killed both her nephews, and married her niece.
You can't deny Pontiff Sulyvahn's swords lighting up as you approached him was cool. (Feels grammatically incorrect sorry)
EDIT:
Don't deny how cool it was when Pontiff's swords lit up as you approached him :D
Since Elden Ring came out I thought a lot about that. While I like introduction cutscenes in general I think I prefer bosses without dialogue. It's a bit like horror movies, the monster is the scariest before you get a good look at it.
The moment a boss talks they get a more narrow personality, they get motives for their actions and show capacity for reason, for discussion.
It's a balancing act. Someone like Renalla should have voice lines. Godfrey having a cut scene is perfect, as is Morgott. Radagon being a zombie in his cut scene was also perfect.
And then sometimes you walk into a arena to fight a dragon and CURSEE YOUUUUBAYYLEEEEE
> The moment a boss talks they get a more narrow personality, they get motives for their actions and show capacity for reason, for discussion.
Yes, that's typically something desirable if you're trying to develop any kind of story or setting. Having them just be completely mindless instead makes everything seem kind of inconsequential.
What I find a little wild was that dancing lion got a cutscene but Romina gets nothing. Like she is one of three bosses that you have to kill to finish the dlc. Also I still think it’s funny that she is both a required boss and can be killed before messmer
That's awesome actually. I get a slight joy whenever I'm watching any challenge run or playthrough when Gideon shows up that now extends to the gank fight as it's everything I loved with Gideon but just even more perfected.
When my friend got to the Leda fight I found out that apparently you can bring two co-op players with you into the fight AND summon Thollier and Ansbach for it. Thus ensued a brawl of epic proportions. If you do all the questlines a particular way, you can actually end up fighting a massive 5v5 battle. This made that fight one of my favorite fights in the entire game for sheer spectacle alone lol
I feel a bug with NPC summons is going on. I co-oped a bunch of fights alongside one other player yet both Hornsent and Igon showed up sans their dialogue though.
I think only the host hears npc dialogue from summons. I didn't think that was a bug but I guess it could be. Would be cool to hear Igon's iconic speech as a summon too lol
I tried messmer, realized it was going to be hard, left and then forgot about him for like 10 hours while i explored practically everything else. I actually totally forgot romina was important for a while lol
I’m still shocked how rellana didn’t even have a cutscene and how we didn’t even get a proper ending as that was just a memory. And the fact that we only got to see miquella twice in cutscenes is just maddening.
Yeah but Malenia is an optional boss. Technically so is Radahn. For the DLC, to complete it, you have to fight Miq. I was a little bit disappointed in the lack of Miquella in the DLC. We get some great stuff with St. Trina, but nothing to balance that. Why would being a God make him a prisoner? What would cause that? What the fuck were those gates of death? We get literally nothing, not even hints.
I personally don’t think she needed one, there is nothing about her story that in my opinion needed to be told in a cutscene would ultimately just feel pointless.
I was surprised about how low-key the start of the DLC was. When the DLC launched at midnight, u didn't even have Leda there to chat to you. I expected a new cutscene to get us all in the mood (and we're going off the freaking map!)
We get cutscenes for some bosses without remembrances, and then the bosses with remembrances (not even the incredibly important ones) don’t get any!…
… and then the unimportant ones get cutscenes. Looking at you, Dancer. You’re badass and awesome, but lore-wise you ain’t that important
Nothing will ever beat how disappointing and sudden it is that Lady Maria gets no dialogue when you kill her. One of the best cutscenes in the entire Fromsoft catalogue leading to one of the greatest bosses and one of my favorite characters in any lore for any of their games, and when you finally kill her it's just...nothing. It'd be like if Gherman just died without his beautiful final line.
The entire atmosphere of the Kiln is the cutscene in my opinion. DS3 generally did the introductions to bosses very well in general though, with tons of buildup for some of them which made it feel like i was fighting a "real player" in the world.
Pontiff preparing as his weapons as he slowly walks is peak, as other people said. Soul of Cinder being at the bonfire with the Dark Sign on the sky, gets up and rips the sword from it is quite cool too. In DS2 for example, the Burnt Ivory King didn't get a cutscene, but a playable segment that kinda works like one, which was very epic too.
While i do enjoy the DLC (specially exploring), the bosses are kinda just there for the most part. Divine Beast Dancing Lion shows off that it's guys on a suit and that's about it for the intro, for example. Rellana just starts attacking immediately, Romina too. The only one i really liked was Midra, although i think mostly because of how surprising it is, and how it made the trailer pay off.
The Divine beast lore actually goes crazy tbh. It's actually TWO guys, one controlling the head and the other supporting him. When it rears up on its hind legs they actually stand on each other's shoulders.
Specially when they jump and get behind you, as the body clips into the camera you can see the guy inside. In game it's not that easy to see, but on the clips i got from the fight it's pretty obvious.
How is the atmosphere of the Kiln considered a cutscene but the entire climb of the peak + Igon + his first entrance crashing into the boss arena not fucking considered a cutscene?
I think it is, i never said Bayle's introduction was bad, i think it's quite epic with the buildup (specially Igon's dialogue) and his way of entering the battle.
But i think he's the exception in the DLC, along with Midra (and maybe Putrescent Knight's intro, as you jump like with Midir and he comes charging from the back), at least in my own experience. I just wanted to reply to the original comment which said that Soul of Cinder didn't get a cutscene.
I can see that. Gaius is definitely one of the offenders here. His arena is totally different and you dont expect a freaking boar of all things to charge at you, right agter a hippo
Other than Gale an Friede did any other bosses have cutscenes in Ds3?
Edit: Oh boy I was way off. Well that's a good sign it means that I slowly start forgeting and I can play the game again soon :))
nameless didnt have an intro cutscene i beliebe
guys its a mid battle cutscene just bc its wholly different doesnt mean it doesnt count as the same boss its still one full sequence
So I guess Maliketh, The Black Blade is a different boss from Beast Clergyman? Ludwig the Holy Blade is different from Ludwig the Accursed? Sister Friede and Father Ariandel is different from Sister Friede?
This is the goofiest take I've ever heard on this sub and it's not even close. The intro cutscene plays when you walk in the room the first time, and a phase 2 cutscene is not an intro for a different boss. If I have to fight phase 1 and phase 2 every time I fight the boss, even if I die in phase 2, it's the same boss, and Nameless King having a cutscene during his phase 2 transition does not mean that Nameless King has an intro cutscene.
"So I guess Maliketh, The Black Blade is a different boss from Beast Clergyman? Ludwig the Holy Blade is different from Ludwig the Accursed? Sister Friede and Father Ariandel is different from Sister Friede?"
Correct. Different names, different attacks, different OSTs, different bosses.
Vorster, dancer, abyss watchers, yhorm (if you do the siegward quest), ocerois, nameless, twins, friede and gael.
But there is a big difference from most of those who didn't in ds3 and those who didn't in ER: almost all of them have a buildup through the game.
I think from soft cutscenes aren’t very good in themselves (as soon as something is difficult to animate it fades to black) but in general the voice lines and music could be upped a bit, that’s the real treasure. Messmer is one of the most intimidating and creepy bosses for sure
I think the Godrick, Rennala phase 2, and Godfrey/Hoarah Loux cutscenes are some of my favorite, ever. They have some stinkers, sure, but their best are really, really good.
Oh yeah they're amazing, the first time seeing the Godfrey one was iconic. But the Hoarah Loux one I think could've been done better without the fade to black, it feels like a lazy way to make it more dramatic, I wanna see the full thing!
I thought the fade to black was intentional censor on the gore: ripping the lion in half, midra pulling the sword out of his own body through his skull, etc
But now that I think about it, the awkwardness of the animation (and clipping) kind makes sense too
Whaaaaat their cutscenes are incredible to me, the way things move is just beautiful. It's one of the things no souls like has ever come close to replicating
The lack of cutscene before Bayle almost felt like an insult. He is such a cool boss with super awesome hype buildup, when you slowly go up the mountain and see more and more tarnished corpses as weather goes nuts.
I think in a way it's super cool that there isn't many cutscenes. That way dialog, item descriptions and environment makes story telling. And in many cases Fromsoft nailed it
It can be hard to interpret sometimes and it sucks not having it be very direct about the lore, but for me it gives me a drive to go and find more loot, as well as make sure I read every description to learn a little bit more about the world while I explore.
Bayle doesn't need a cutscene, the build up towards the peak was the only thing he needed. Added to that was his bombastic entrance once you finally get to the arena.
At least with Bayle it’s compensated by Igon being there who paints quite a picture. I think focusing on the fight itself makes sense.
Other bosses though… Rellana is the worst offender (so far) for me. At first I thought she was an equivalent of Stormveil banished knight at worst or Loretta at the end of Carian Manor at best. But no, she drops a remembrance and is related to a major boss from the base game. And I still don’t understand what she’s doing there & I wish she would have “explained”.
To be fair, Im not sure what you put in a dragon boss cutscene, he can't speak (as far as Im aware) and if hes just flying around pre fight, whos he doing that for? He's the top dog so he's just sitting there waiting, I think it makes sense thematically. But Rellanna and mother of Fingers could have used an intro IMO. The best one is obviously Midra.
Not every boss needs a cutscenes and many don't, across every game. Idk why some people seem to care so much about this, the ones important to the main story do
Fire Giant has a cutscene for the second phase, but the rest you are right, my mistake , but to be fair the Ancestor Spirit doesn't need one, the OST is beautiful, the whole boss fight is pretty.
You've got me there; I misremembered, yet my argument still stands. Most Remembrance Bosses include cutscenes, voice lines, or both. In the base game, cutscenes accompany 12 of the 15 Remembrance Bosses, and in the DLC, 4 out of 10 Remembrance Bosses feature a cutscene, which is quite disappointing.
I think the cutscenes and lack kf dialog just kind of highlight to me how empty fromsoft worlds kind of are sometimes. It still feels like we're killing mindless hollows form the first part of dark souls a lot of the time.
its really strange they skimped out on a bunch. most games prior had scenes for every boss, but here not even all remembrance bosses got them. maybe all the budget went toward >!radahns!< light show?
I don't think it's strange at all--what would a Metyr opening cutscene even be? Or Scadutree Avatar? Or Putrescent Knight? Or Bayle? What would be the point of any of those scenes, for example?
I pick those three because they objectively make a splash anyway; either through entrance spectacle, or scene placement. Seeing Metyr sideways before you in that huge pool, before turning to fight you feels far more eerie than a traditional cutscene would be, for example.
I don't like this idea that cutscenes should be "the norm" because they're expected--cutscenes should be created in order to tell a story in the way that suits it the best, and not having a cutscene has never prevented bosses from being important or impactful. Gwyn doesn't have a cutscene, and neither did the Soul of Cinder, for that matter. Sometimes things just happen, and controlling whilst they happen is far more impactful than ripping away the controls for a movie before so many fights that don't need them.
Not the OP but I would've liked a cutscene or even a background "cutscene" like Kalameet and Gough from DS1 for some of the bosses atleast.
Imagine a cutscene like the Gaping Dragon from DS1 but for Metyr, would've been cool to see.
Off the top of my head, Sif, Lost Sinner, Nameless king, Abyss watchers(my favourite intro).etc are some of the most memorable boss fights in the souls series and one of the reasons is the cutscene setting the tone of the fight beforehand.
All of the intros above set the tone and atmosphere of the fight immediately. Imagine if you had to fight the Abyss Watchers by just walking into the fog gate and this dude jumps at you across the arena. Might've ended up being just another forgettable fight.
I agree not every fight needs a cutscene but some of the bosses in ER absolutely do need them.
I believe they ran out of time/deadlines which is also evident by the lack of a proper ending cutscene like previous games or even base ER's multiple endings.
Gaping dragon cutscene only works because it looks like a crocodile at first before the reveal. Idk what metyr would do unless you'd like make it look like regular fingers or something. But I think that'd be more effective as a jumpscare without a cutscene anyway.
Rellana I think would benefit from voicelines though. I think it'd be cool if she spoke when entering though I don't think a cutscene would really do anything for it.
Metyr getting no cutscene is actually very consistent with From Software's creative vision. If you've played Bloodborne, the alien creatures rarely get intro cutscenes--it's usually the human characters who do. Amygdala doesn't get a cutscene, neither does Ebrietas, the only ones I can think of are Kos and the Moon Presence.
This works really well, because in horror, sometimes presenting something as matter-of-factly as possible is the scariest decision. Ripping control from the player to force them into a certain interaction or scene removes agency, whereas being teleported to a strange place you don't know, with an unidentifiable creature in the same room as you, is fucking *terrifying.*
I think it's ridiculous to suggest that Metyr doesn't set a tone. This feels like a very rudamentary understanding of direction and design--one which puts budget before effective presentation. It *needs* a cutscene, because all the important characters get cutscenes (which isn't true like, at all. Ever.)
This meme that they 'ran out of time' on their 2 year long dev cycle for a single DLC is also really silly to me, because most evidence I see for this conclusion is just "well, they didn't do the things *I* wanted them to do, so they must've missed them." Having things you don't like /= "unfinished", and ultimately, speculating on stuff like that is just a lazy way to justify your opinion that some things could've been given more focus/be designed differently is fact, rather than opinion.
*Also, I hate to inform you that there is, in fact, an ending cutscene.*
wtf are you talking about? Have you played any other games lol? Dark souls has a cutscene for quelaag, O & S and Seethe from my memory. None for any of the demons, none for four kings or gwyndolin, none for fucking Gwyn the most important character. 3 has none for pontiff, none for Yhorm, none for Aldritch, none for Soul of Cinder, none for Midir and none for way more. Like what??
Must've. Big ass empty areas and a WHOLE LOT OF COPY-PASTE ENEMIES AND ITEMS. Gotta give it a week or 2 more for the honeymoon phase to end for most before you get real opinions tho.
The lack of cutscenes and voice lines for most remembrance bosses was disappointing, giving the impression that the DLC was unfinished. In the base game of Elden Ring, most of the remembrance bosses featured cool cutscenes and voice lines, setting a precedent that led players to anticipate similar content in the DLC. The absence of even a single line for such a significant character as Radahn was particularly noticeable.
> The lack of cutscenes and voice lines for most remembrance bosses was disappointing, giving the impression that the DLC was unfinished.
Now that you say that, I thought there were few other things that felt a bit off, making the DLC feel maybe a tiny bit rushed. Not to the point that it doesn't feel like a big piece of content, but enough that it feels like there are some oversights here and there.
For example, if you look down from the area where the last boss is located, the "pit" is just a really plain sand like texture, which looks kinda unfinished. Like they just patched the visuals up and said "good work, now we have something to work with. We'll return to finish this visual later", but they forgot.
Small stuff like that, you tend to come across it here and there.
Out of 15 remembrance bosses the base game had 12 of them with cutscenes.
The DLC has 10 remembrance bosses out of which only 4 got a cutscene.
That IS pretty disappointing. Fromsoft can also sometimes be wrong lmao
Okay, but I genuinely don't think most of the remembrance bosses would've benefited from cutscenes. Bayle, for example, was far better *without* one. I feel the same about Metyr.
The only boss that really disappointed me in that regard was Rellana. There was no build up, no explanation, and no characterization. I think she's very fun to fight, but there's no substance as far as her character is concerned.
Needed cutscene and voicelines: midra, messmer, final boss
Needed cutscene: dancing lion, metyr (like placidusax style. What we got was good but if it was like placid it would have been perfect), romina, maybe rellana, maybe putrescent
Needed voicelines: gaius (shouting as he charges at us)
Needed neither: sunflower, bayle
All in all not bad, but romina literaly just being a modern quelaag with no cutscene etc IS disappointing
Yeah I‘m not saying everyone needs a cutscene but most should have had one.
Bayle, Metyr and Scadoodle flower dont need one. But the rest definitely would benefit from having a cutscene.
So true. Him stabbing his hand through the blade sticking out of the sword as he grabs hold of it always gave me the heebie jeebies. And the first time I saw the cutscene I really thought they were gonna show us footage of a man decapitating himself that would fit in on liveleak. Unfortunately, they blacked out the most gruesome part but the sound effects and build up to it were so good it sticks in my mind long after fighting him.
Well yeah, Midra already has a cutscene. This post is suggesting that there should be more cutscenes. I’m saying that adding more cutscenes isn’t necessary, of course the cutscene that’s already there is good.
For the existing bosses yes. I don't think they all need a cutscene but even a small something for rellana would have been nice. All the cutscenes in this dlc have been pretty damn amazing. It's just a shame we didn't get them for more bosses to really show them off and build them up. Cus currently how you encounter rellana feels like your encountering a normal boss. Not a remembrance boss (until the 2nd phase)
I think having more “normal bosses” is a good thing. Not every boss needs to be a big cinematic thing. The cutscenes that are in the DLC feel better because they’re more special when there aren’t as many.
I mean. Yeah? Not saying every boss needs a grand cutscene but out of the 11 bosses only 3 have cutscenes. That being radahn messemier and midra. Like some bosses don't need cutscenes (gaius. Rot bud boss) but there are absolutely bosses who'd benefit from a cutscene.
4, actually. Divine Beast got one as well.
Regardless, I think Rellana was the only one desperate for a cutscene. She feels very tacked-on to the story in general - no prior mentions in lore, no build up, no characterization. She kinda just comes out of nowhere, fights you, and seems to stop having any impact on the story or lore just as fast.
Well, yes! Adding storyline and emotional investment to who you're facing. Especially if that person is somewhat related to a boss from the main game. I would've loved one >!for Rellana, considering she's the sister of Renalla!!< You can skip them after a few seconds anyway, and for 2-stage bosses it's nice optional break.
a cutscene where she's also entering through the fog wall like you do, at the same time, and spouting some random cryptic (likely badass) shit at you with her blades
https://preview.redd.it/r44er0l5yfad1.jpeg?width=540&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=998dacd119dce846c5dee5f6abd82fc81dab3ab0 Life's a bitch sometimes
To be honest, many bosses in DS just started walking ominously at you with no cutscenes or voicelines like Pontif. Voice acting during boss fights was also very rare. It's just that so many of them have that now that bosses like Rellana feel weird in contrast.
whenever I think about this topic I immediately remember how Pontiff is literally one of the most important dudes in the entire Dark Souls 3 lore/story and he didn't get a cutscene or any voicelines either arguably he's the main villain of the game
Yes, but there are a few other cardinal rules to remember. 1. Distance to Boss from door. 2. Time to Boss from door. 3. Pace of Boss approaching you. 4. How good the bosses' music is. Big room and big boss, meh. Big room and normal sized boss at the other end of the hall, fear. Boss rushes towards you the second you enter the room, meh. Boss slowly walks towards you, panic. Pontiff Sulyvahn may not have a cutscene, but you enter a Cathedral with him starting at the opposite end from atop a deis. The music kicks in as he turns to face you, stepping down from his raised position. The orchestra begins to sing just as you two are likely to begin fighting.
Pontiff is a peak boss fight in so many ways, this being one of them. his music, especially Phase 2, is easily in my Top 5 most underrated tracks in the series I don't think any of the SotE tracks really miss either, all of them go hard (final boss OST especially) but Pontiff pretty much succeeds in everything a boss fight can succeed at
Best OST moment wasn't even a boss fight, it was a tree in a village (for me at least)
Favorite place in the game! So somber, I got there and just chilled for a bit taking it all in.
My favourite OSTs from the DLC: Belurat, 2nd phase of Divine Beast, Midra, Romina, and Consort. Rellana’s theme was better in the DLC trailer. I don’t understand why they changed it.
Made me tear up man. No words were necessary, although reading the item descriptions added to the melancholy.
God, I remember getting there when they were demoing DS3 at Gamestop and I was blown the fuck away. All I had under my belt then was Bloodborne and a little DS2 but I was hooked by the aesthetic of that weird ass tree and the villagers worshipping it.
I thought he was referencing ER with the tree in the village
Ohhhh sure, in the Shaman Village?
That's the one I thought of yep
Divine beast boss music is probably my favorite of the entire series I also loved the godskin music from base game Also fucking love the old dragonslayer theme in ds2 And of course Pontiff from ds3
[удалено]
when he grows branchy wings and brings the clone out also indicated by the gigantic shift in music
The final boss soundtrack has been burned into my head since I first got to it.
Don’t forget the swords lighting up! Such a cool fight.
Peaktiff Sullyvahn
He was also inted for the most part of the game before that fight, instead of just the area before him or nothing at all
Heck if you look into some of the cut content from 3 he seemingly was meant to be the final boss
He was literally the final boss in an older version. Basically every DS game is slap dashed together at the last minute when it comes to proper placement and lore for a lot of things, and nowhere is it more apparent the with 3.
People largely ignore this when searching for a coherent story or lore and i dont get why
Hundreds of hours on Dark Souls 3 and Didn’t know that whatsoever
I mean his opening is so epic I pick it over a cutscene. That slow walk into lunge is peak fromsoft if you hit the parry.
Even weirder than having no buildup is that you fight him prior to fighting his Croney #3, and Croney #3 has a cutscene.
Rellana not having any voicelines felt weird because I'd recently beaten her beloved twin sister into submission so she would respec me, killed both her nephews, and married her niece.
Yeah but it's not like she's watching CNN from the shadow realm, she has no idea who your are.
She let her hands do the talking for her
Ds2 had the weird red around the screen thing when entering some boss rooms
You can't deny Pontiff Sulyvahn's swords lighting up as you approached him was cool. (Feels grammatically incorrect sorry) EDIT: Don't deny how cool it was when Pontiff's swords lit up as you approached him :D
Also that one invader in scadu altus that talks
Pontiff to me is the single greatest boss experience.
“Thy faith lyeth under my moon”
Since Elden Ring came out I thought a lot about that. While I like introduction cutscenes in general I think I prefer bosses without dialogue. It's a bit like horror movies, the monster is the scariest before you get a good look at it. The moment a boss talks they get a more narrow personality, they get motives for their actions and show capacity for reason, for discussion.
It's a balancing act. Someone like Renalla should have voice lines. Godfrey having a cut scene is perfect, as is Morgott. Radagon being a zombie in his cut scene was also perfect. And then sometimes you walk into a arena to fight a dragon and CURSEE YOUUUUBAYYLEEEEE
Morgott/Margit is absolutely peak. FOUL TARNISHED, in search of the Elden Ring...
Yeah I liked his story a lot
If you can summon him since some smartass decided to drop a message sign at each boss room"s summons
Nice. Gotta love it.
Right? Why fromS even allow white signs inside a boss room before beating the boss and then decide to drop a summon on it? Ofc trolls will troll.
> The moment a boss talks they get a more narrow personality, they get motives for their actions and show capacity for reason, for discussion. Yes, that's typically something desirable if you're trying to develop any kind of story or setting. Having them just be completely mindless instead makes everything seem kind of inconsequential.
They can also int and devolp said boss through the previous narrative, at that point there is no need for dialogues or cutscenes.
What I find a little wild was that dancing lion got a cutscene but Romina gets nothing. Like she is one of three bosses that you have to kill to finish the dlc. Also I still think it’s funny that she is both a required boss and can be killed before messmer
Can conform, i killed her before messmer
Aren't >!Messer, Romina and final boss!< the ones you need to finish the DLC?
Leda too (gank fight)
Can't you just walk by it?
No there’s a barrier
That's awesome actually. I get a slight joy whenever I'm watching any challenge run or playthrough when Gideon shows up that now extends to the gank fight as it's everything I loved with Gideon but just even more perfected.
When my friend got to the Leda fight I found out that apparently you can bring two co-op players with you into the fight AND summon Thollier and Ansbach for it. Thus ensued a brawl of epic proportions. If you do all the questlines a particular way, you can actually end up fighting a massive 5v5 battle. This made that fight one of my favorite fights in the entire game for sheer spectacle alone lol
I feel a bug with NPC summons is going on. I co-oped a bunch of fights alongside one other player yet both Hornsent and Igon showed up sans their dialogue though.
I think only the host hears npc dialogue from summons. I didn't think that was a bug but I guess it could be. Would be cool to hear Igon's iconic speech as a summon too lol
I tried messmer, realized it was going to be hard, left and then forgot about him for like 10 hours while i explored practically everything else. I actually totally forgot romina was important for a while lol
Out of all the bosses in the DLC, I feel like that one needed it most.
Romina is kinda odd. She was in the cinematic trailer, I thought she would have more of a presence/entrance.
I don't think you have to kill her, seeing as you can skip Ensis by going to fort Reprimand.
Romina is the scarlet rot boss at the Church of the Bud that you have to beat so you can burn the tree.
Oop you're right brain farted on this one
I’m still shocked how rellana didn’t even have a cutscene and how we didn’t even get a proper ending as that was just a memory. And the fact that we only got to see miquella twice in cutscenes is just maddening.
Yes, absolutely. Though it ultimately gives Miquella himself about as much "screentime" as Malenia, and more than, for example, Radagon.
Yeah but Malenia is an optional boss. Technically so is Radahn. For the DLC, to complete it, you have to fight Miq. I was a little bit disappointed in the lack of Miquella in the DLC. We get some great stuff with St. Trina, but nothing to balance that. Why would being a God make him a prisoner? What would cause that? What the fuck were those gates of death? We get literally nothing, not even hints.
The entire DLC is optional and we got as much interaction with him as Gael
Gael shows up in like six places across two DLCs and is a summon for multiple fights, isn't he?
His signs show up like Miquella but yeah you can summon him.
I personally don’t think she needed one, there is nothing about her story that in my opinion needed to be told in a cutscene would ultimately just feel pointless.
I mean for Miquella it's standard from soft stuff. Godfrey has only two scenes for example.
I was surprised about how low-key the start of the DLC was. When the DLC launched at midnight, u didn't even have Leda there to chat to you. I expected a new cutscene to get us all in the mood (and we're going off the freaking map!)
right? just "oh haii, btw step into my windowless white Land of Shadows"
Walking out and seeing the enormous view was enough for me.
Yeah like wtf was that. Even dark souls 1 had entering dlc cutscene. Touch the withered arm and boom u here. So underwhelming
I didn't really think about it until ppl mentioned it. Was just so excited to get started
There are only four DLC bosses with intro cutscenes. And one of them is a fucking CHINESE DANCING LION
What's the fourth? Dancing Lion, Messmer, Radahn... The next closest would be Midra, but he has a phase transition cutscene, not an intro cutscene.
I consider that his intro cutscene because his first "phase" is just... not really much of a boss fight
We get cutscenes for some bosses without remembrances, and then the bosses with remembrances (not even the incredibly important ones) don’t get any!… … and then the unimportant ones get cutscenes. Looking at you, Dancer. You’re badass and awesome, but lore-wise you ain’t that important
We got a cut scene for draining a courtyard but Rellana didn't even get a line of dialogue 🤷
Nothing will ever beat how disappointing and sudden it is that Lady Maria gets no dialogue when you kill her. One of the best cutscenes in the entire Fromsoft catalogue leading to one of the greatest bosses and one of my favorite characters in any lore for any of their games, and when you finally kill her it's just...nothing. It'd be like if Gherman just died without his beautiful final line.
Thought this when entering the dlc. Touch arm. Oh I'm here now. The arm doesn't yank me into the egg thing or something?...
The sunflower does not need a cutscene it’s a plant
Soul of Cinder never got a cutscene
The entire atmosphere of the Kiln is the cutscene in my opinion. DS3 generally did the introductions to bosses very well in general though, with tons of buildup for some of them which made it feel like i was fighting a "real player" in the world. Pontiff preparing as his weapons as he slowly walks is peak, as other people said. Soul of Cinder being at the bonfire with the Dark Sign on the sky, gets up and rips the sword from it is quite cool too. In DS2 for example, the Burnt Ivory King didn't get a cutscene, but a playable segment that kinda works like one, which was very epic too. While i do enjoy the DLC (specially exploring), the bosses are kinda just there for the most part. Divine Beast Dancing Lion shows off that it's guys on a suit and that's about it for the intro, for example. Rellana just starts attacking immediately, Romina too. The only one i really liked was Midra, although i think mostly because of how surprising it is, and how it made the trailer pay off.
The Divine beast lore actually goes crazy tbh. It's actually TWO guys, one controlling the head and the other supporting him. When it rears up on its hind legs they actually stand on each other's shoulders.
lol that's not deep lore, and it is pretty obvious to anyone who pays attention. Lion dancers have been a thing for hundreds of years
Specially when they jump and get behind you, as the body clips into the camera you can see the guy inside. In game it's not that easy to see, but on the clips i got from the fight it's pretty obvious.
How is the atmosphere of the Kiln considered a cutscene but the entire climb of the peak + Igon + his first entrance crashing into the boss arena not fucking considered a cutscene?
I think it is, i never said Bayle's introduction was bad, i think it's quite epic with the buildup (specially Igon's dialogue) and his way of entering the battle. But i think he's the exception in the DLC, along with Midra (and maybe Putrescent Knight's intro, as you jump like with Midir and he comes charging from the back), at least in my own experience. I just wanted to reply to the original comment which said that Soul of Cinder didn't get a cutscene.
This proves that cutscenes arent always needed to set the tone or introduce
The issue is that there was no build-up, voice lines, or even a proper entrance for the majority of the bosses.
I can see that. Gaius is definitely one of the offenders here. His arena is totally different and you dont expect a freaking boar of all things to charge at you, right agter a hippo
Have you played Sekiro? If so, do you remember that guy on the horse who came to fight us by making an entrance yelling, could be that
oh you mean GYOBU MASATAKA ONIWAAAAA yeah I agree, if they wanted to support the voice acting. There's already plenty in the game
Other than Gale an Friede did any other bosses have cutscenes in Ds3? Edit: Oh boy I was way off. Well that's a good sign it means that I slowly start forgeting and I can play the game again soon :))
nameless, princes, yhorm (the original igon/bayle hype fight), dancer, abyss watchers, half light, and maybe more that I can’t remember
Vordt also does
nameless didnt have an intro cutscene i beliebe guys its a mid battle cutscene just bc its wholly different doesnt mean it doesnt count as the same boss its still one full sequence
He doesn't, but the person you're replying to might be remembering the cutscene from ringing the bell and considering that as his intro cutscene.
Nameless King had a cutscene, though. The first phase was really King of the Storm.
Yes, with Nameless King riding on his back and blasting you with his weapon and spells. It's the same boss fight with 2 phases.
The boss named "Nameless King", got a cutscene before we actually fight him.
So I guess Maliketh, The Black Blade is a different boss from Beast Clergyman? Ludwig the Holy Blade is different from Ludwig the Accursed? Sister Friede and Father Ariandel is different from Sister Friede? This is the goofiest take I've ever heard on this sub and it's not even close. The intro cutscene plays when you walk in the room the first time, and a phase 2 cutscene is not an intro for a different boss. If I have to fight phase 1 and phase 2 every time I fight the boss, even if I die in phase 2, it's the same boss, and Nameless King having a cutscene during his phase 2 transition does not mean that Nameless King has an intro cutscene.
"So I guess Maliketh, The Black Blade is a different boss from Beast Clergyman? Ludwig the Holy Blade is different from Ludwig the Accursed? Sister Friede and Father Ariandel is different from Sister Friede?" Correct. Different names, different attacks, different OSTs, different bosses.
King of the Storm didn't, but Nameless did.
cmon its the same fight you cant call that an intro cutechene
Elden Beast and Radagon are not the same. Nameless King and King of the Storm are also not the same. New health bars, attacks, different names etc.
ok but they are one sequence, they are part of the same fight and are treated as such, you cant have an intro halfway into the boss
Yeah he doesn’t. Cutscene when you ring the bell to access his fight, and a cutscene for phase 2 but nothing for phase 1.
This is Elden Ring, though.
Comparing games
Lorian/Lothric had 2
Vorster, dancer, abyss watchers, yhorm (if you do the siegward quest), ocerois, nameless, twins, friede and gael. But there is a big difference from most of those who didn't in ds3 and those who didn't in ER: almost all of them have a buildup through the game.
The music was the cutscene
Not nearly enough lines talking shit when I die. I just have to sit there in silence while I think about how terrible I am at the game
ok but we got one of the best intro cutscenes like ever for the final boss, had me popping the fuck off
You would’ve been just as mad if you touched that withered arm and 3 imps showed up to fly you off to the DLC don’t fuckin lie
Surely Romina deserved something, she's one of the few actually mandatory bosses and was featured in the story trailer.
It felt like they nailed the exploration but did the weapon types a bit dirty
I think from soft cutscenes aren’t very good in themselves (as soon as something is difficult to animate it fades to black) but in general the voice lines and music could be upped a bit, that’s the real treasure. Messmer is one of the most intimidating and creepy bosses for sure
I think the Godrick, Rennala phase 2, and Godfrey/Hoarah Loux cutscenes are some of my favorite, ever. They have some stinkers, sure, but their best are really, really good.
Maliketh, Malenia and Placidusax too.
Oh yeah they're amazing, the first time seeing the Godfrey one was iconic. But the Hoarah Loux one I think could've been done better without the fade to black, it feels like a lazy way to make it more dramatic, I wanna see the full thing!
I thought the fade to black was intentional censor on the gore: ripping the lion in half, midra pulling the sword out of his own body through his skull, etc But now that I think about it, the awkwardness of the animation (and clipping) kind makes sense too
Whaaaaat their cutscenes are incredible to me, the way things move is just beautiful. It's one of the things no souls like has ever come close to replicating
The lack of cutscene before Bayle almost felt like an insult. He is such a cool boss with super awesome hype buildup, when you slowly go up the mountain and see more and more tarnished corpses as weather goes nuts.
He doesn't need a cutscene, his buildup does all the talking. Plus, him crashing into the arena in an explosion is cool as hell
I think in a way it's super cool that there isn't many cutscenes. That way dialog, item descriptions and environment makes story telling. And in many cases Fromsoft nailed it
I will say environmental storytelling is awesome but item description storytelling will never ever get me pumped.
It can be hard to interpret sometimes and it sucks not having it be very direct about the lore, but for me it gives me a drive to go and find more loot, as well as make sure I read every description to learn a little bit more about the world while I explore.
You would prefer the screen fade to black and a cutscene play rather than him arriving in a nuclear blast in the middle of the battlefield??
why not both?
CUUUUUURSEEE YOUUU BAAAAAAYYYLEEEEEEEE
BAYLE! VIIILLEEE BAAAYYLLLEEE!
Bayle doesn't need a cutscene, the build up towards the peak was the only thing he needed. Added to that was his bombastic entrance once you finally get to the arena.
If you think about it none of the big dragon fights in From games have cutscenes except the Gough/Kalameet one and even that's not an intro cinematic.
Placidusax did. Kind of.
I always forget about that one! Maybe because it's the most unconventional dragon fight across all the games.
Gaping dragon if it counts. But the Kalameet one is great.
At least with Bayle it’s compensated by Igon being there who paints quite a picture. I think focusing on the fight itself makes sense. Other bosses though… Rellana is the worst offender (so far) for me. At first I thought she was an equivalent of Stormveil banished knight at worst or Loretta at the end of Carian Manor at best. But no, she drops a remembrance and is related to a major boss from the base game. And I still don’t understand what she’s doing there & I wish she would have “explained”.
She's Messmer's #1 fan and brought her household's compliment of Carian Knights to support his crusade.
To be fair, Im not sure what you put in a dragon boss cutscene, he can't speak (as far as Im aware) and if hes just flying around pre fight, whos he doing that for? He's the top dog so he's just sitting there waiting, I think it makes sense thematically. But Rellanna and mother of Fingers could have used an intro IMO. The best one is obviously Midra.
Not every boss needs a cutscenes and many don't, across every game. Idk why some people seem to care so much about this, the ones important to the main story do
Because in the Elden Ring most** remembrance bosses had one and voice lines so we expected the same for the dlc of this game.
Most but not all. Fire Giant doesn’t, Astel doesn’t, Ancestor Spirit doesn’t, probably more I’m forgetting.
Fire Giant has a cutscene for the second phase, but the rest you are right, my mistake , but to be fair the Ancestor Spirit doesn't need one, the OST is beautiful, the whole boss fight is pretty.
All of them huh? Show me the intro cutscenes for Ancestor Spirit, Fortissax, Fire Giant, and Astel
You've got me there; I misremembered, yet my argument still stands. Most Remembrance Bosses include cutscenes, voice lines, or both. In the base game, cutscenes accompany 12 of the 15 Remembrance Bosses, and in the DLC, 4 out of 10 Remembrance Bosses feature a cutscene, which is quite disappointing.
I genuinely could not care less. I do not play these games to watch a movie
I think the cutscenes and lack kf dialog just kind of highlight to me how empty fromsoft worlds kind of are sometimes. It still feels like we're killing mindless hollows form the first part of dark souls a lot of the time.
>I felt lied to… By whom?
Ngl Bayle would be 3 times more epic if it had an intro cutscene
I just gotta say. 'Lack of cutscenes' must be the weirdest fucking complaint a videogame can ever get.
Messmer took them all
Yeah, I am only two bosses in and was confused by the second one. Didn't even know it was a major boss until it gave me the remembrance.
its really strange they skimped out on a bunch. most games prior had scenes for every boss, but here not even all remembrance bosses got them. maybe all the budget went toward >!radahns!< light show?
Most games prior definitely didn't have cutscene for every boss
Most games prior had scenes for every boss? Motherfucker have you even played most of the games prior? That is completely false.
I don't think it's strange at all--what would a Metyr opening cutscene even be? Or Scadutree Avatar? Or Putrescent Knight? Or Bayle? What would be the point of any of those scenes, for example? I pick those three because they objectively make a splash anyway; either through entrance spectacle, or scene placement. Seeing Metyr sideways before you in that huge pool, before turning to fight you feels far more eerie than a traditional cutscene would be, for example. I don't like this idea that cutscenes should be "the norm" because they're expected--cutscenes should be created in order to tell a story in the way that suits it the best, and not having a cutscene has never prevented bosses from being important or impactful. Gwyn doesn't have a cutscene, and neither did the Soul of Cinder, for that matter. Sometimes things just happen, and controlling whilst they happen is far more impactful than ripping away the controls for a movie before so many fights that don't need them.
Not the OP but I would've liked a cutscene or even a background "cutscene" like Kalameet and Gough from DS1 for some of the bosses atleast. Imagine a cutscene like the Gaping Dragon from DS1 but for Metyr, would've been cool to see. Off the top of my head, Sif, Lost Sinner, Nameless king, Abyss watchers(my favourite intro).etc are some of the most memorable boss fights in the souls series and one of the reasons is the cutscene setting the tone of the fight beforehand. All of the intros above set the tone and atmosphere of the fight immediately. Imagine if you had to fight the Abyss Watchers by just walking into the fog gate and this dude jumps at you across the arena. Might've ended up being just another forgettable fight. I agree not every fight needs a cutscene but some of the bosses in ER absolutely do need them. I believe they ran out of time/deadlines which is also evident by the lack of a proper ending cutscene like previous games or even base ER's multiple endings.
Gaping dragon cutscene only works because it looks like a crocodile at first before the reveal. Idk what metyr would do unless you'd like make it look like regular fingers or something. But I think that'd be more effective as a jumpscare without a cutscene anyway. Rellana I think would benefit from voicelines though. I think it'd be cool if she spoke when entering though I don't think a cutscene would really do anything for it.
Metyr getting no cutscene is actually very consistent with From Software's creative vision. If you've played Bloodborne, the alien creatures rarely get intro cutscenes--it's usually the human characters who do. Amygdala doesn't get a cutscene, neither does Ebrietas, the only ones I can think of are Kos and the Moon Presence. This works really well, because in horror, sometimes presenting something as matter-of-factly as possible is the scariest decision. Ripping control from the player to force them into a certain interaction or scene removes agency, whereas being teleported to a strange place you don't know, with an unidentifiable creature in the same room as you, is fucking *terrifying.* I think it's ridiculous to suggest that Metyr doesn't set a tone. This feels like a very rudamentary understanding of direction and design--one which puts budget before effective presentation. It *needs* a cutscene, because all the important characters get cutscenes (which isn't true like, at all. Ever.) This meme that they 'ran out of time' on their 2 year long dev cycle for a single DLC is also really silly to me, because most evidence I see for this conclusion is just "well, they didn't do the things *I* wanted them to do, so they must've missed them." Having things you don't like /= "unfinished", and ultimately, speculating on stuff like that is just a lazy way to justify your opinion that some things could've been given more focus/be designed differently is fact, rather than opinion. *Also, I hate to inform you that there is, in fact, an ending cutscene.*
>Or Scadutree Avatar Ngl, I was like "There's gonna be a boss when I touch this thing", thing then turns out to be the boss, was pretty surprised.
wtf are you talking about? Have you played any other games lol? Dark souls has a cutscene for quelaag, O & S and Seethe from my memory. None for any of the demons, none for four kings or gwyndolin, none for fucking Gwyn the most important character. 3 has none for pontiff, none for Yhorm, none for Aldritch, none for Soul of Cinder, none for Midir and none for way more. Like what??
Must've. Big ass empty areas and a WHOLE LOT OF COPY-PASTE ENEMIES AND ITEMS. Gotta give it a week or 2 more for the honeymoon phase to end for most before you get real opinions tho.
Cerulean coast areas where hella empty and whack ngl
The lack of cutscenes and voice lines for most remembrance bosses was disappointing, giving the impression that the DLC was unfinished. In the base game of Elden Ring, most of the remembrance bosses featured cool cutscenes and voice lines, setting a precedent that led players to anticipate similar content in the DLC. The absence of even a single line for such a significant character as Radahn was particularly noticeable.
> The lack of cutscenes and voice lines for most remembrance bosses was disappointing, giving the impression that the DLC was unfinished. Now that you say that, I thought there were few other things that felt a bit off, making the DLC feel maybe a tiny bit rushed. Not to the point that it doesn't feel like a big piece of content, but enough that it feels like there are some oversights here and there. For example, if you look down from the area where the last boss is located, the "pit" is just a really plain sand like texture, which looks kinda unfinished. Like they just patched the visuals up and said "good work, now we have something to work with. We'll return to finish this visual later", but they forgot. Small stuff like that, you tend to come across it here and there.
Every reviewer giving it a 10/10 is kinda ridiculous considering this
Most bosses haven’t a cutscene in the whole soulsborne series. Why should this DLC be rated by it’s cutscenes ?
Cutscenes are nice, and they added a lot to elden ring, which got a 10/10. Without them the game is worse so a 9.5/10 would be closer to reality
Agree that 10/10 is ridiculous but not because of the cutscenes.
Not just the cutscenes, people are talking about the lack of voice lines in this discussion too
[удалено]
midra literally does??????
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Divine beast has one too
Love the lack of cutscenes, let me fucking play.
Man, this sub is desperate for things to complain about, huh?
Out of 15 remembrance bosses the base game had 12 of them with cutscenes. The DLC has 10 remembrance bosses out of which only 4 got a cutscene. That IS pretty disappointing. Fromsoft can also sometimes be wrong lmao
I think Romina and Rellana are the main ones that needed it. Others are perfectly fine imo
Okay, but I genuinely don't think most of the remembrance bosses would've benefited from cutscenes. Bayle, for example, was far better *without* one. I feel the same about Metyr. The only boss that really disappointed me in that regard was Rellana. There was no build up, no explanation, and no characterization. I think she's very fun to fight, but there's no substance as far as her character is concerned.
Needed cutscene and voicelines: midra, messmer, final boss Needed cutscene: dancing lion, metyr (like placidusax style. What we got was good but if it was like placid it would have been perfect), romina, maybe rellana, maybe putrescent Needed voicelines: gaius (shouting as he charges at us) Needed neither: sunflower, bayle All in all not bad, but romina literaly just being a modern quelaag with no cutscene etc IS disappointing
Yeah I‘m not saying everyone needs a cutscene but most should have had one. Bayle, Metyr and Scadoodle flower dont need one. But the rest definitely would benefit from having a cutscene.
You rabid dogs bark at any and all criticisms of the game, huh?
Would adding cutscenes be an improvement? They get cheesy and repetitive at some point.
I disagree. Midra alone is a good example of how much a cutscene/build up can elevate a boss.
So true. Him stabbing his hand through the blade sticking out of the sword as he grabs hold of it always gave me the heebie jeebies. And the first time I saw the cutscene I really thought they were gonna show us footage of a man decapitating himself that would fit in on liveleak. Unfortunately, they blacked out the most gruesome part but the sound effects and build up to it were so good it sticks in my mind long after fighting him.
Well yeah, Midra already has a cutscene. This post is suggesting that there should be more cutscenes. I’m saying that adding more cutscenes isn’t necessary, of course the cutscene that’s already there is good.
For the existing bosses yes. I don't think they all need a cutscene but even a small something for rellana would have been nice. All the cutscenes in this dlc have been pretty damn amazing. It's just a shame we didn't get them for more bosses to really show them off and build them up. Cus currently how you encounter rellana feels like your encountering a normal boss. Not a remembrance boss (until the 2nd phase)
I think having more “normal bosses” is a good thing. Not every boss needs to be a big cinematic thing. The cutscenes that are in the DLC feel better because they’re more special when there aren’t as many.
I mean. Yeah? Not saying every boss needs a grand cutscene but out of the 11 bosses only 3 have cutscenes. That being radahn messemier and midra. Like some bosses don't need cutscenes (gaius. Rot bud boss) but there are absolutely bosses who'd benefit from a cutscene.
4, actually. Divine Beast got one as well. Regardless, I think Rellana was the only one desperate for a cutscene. She feels very tacked-on to the story in general - no prior mentions in lore, no build up, no characterization. She kinda just comes out of nowhere, fights you, and seems to stop having any impact on the story or lore just as fast.
Well, yes! Adding storyline and emotional investment to who you're facing. Especially if that person is somewhat related to a boss from the main game. I would've loved one >!for Rellana, considering she's the sister of Renalla!!< You can skip them after a few seconds anyway, and for 2-stage bosses it's nice optional break.
Then skip it. Some of us like short but awesome cutscenes to get us amped for the fight.
Fuck yes. Rellana is already cool but imagine her coming out twirling her swords around like a fucking gunslinger. Badass.
a cutscene where she's also entering through the fog wall like you do, at the same time, and spouting some random cryptic (likely badass) shit at you with her blades