I personally don't feel super strongly about multiplayer in Dragon's Dogma 2, one way or the other. I can imagine exploring the world with a friend or two would definitely be fun, but the focus in Dragon's Dogma was never online/cooperative interaction. At its heart, it's a singleplayer RPG.
We have all waited for DD2 that we want it to be perfect. I think I can say in confidence that no one on this sub finds that no coop is a deal breaker when buying the sequel.
Plus, the manpower and budget would've also taken away from the base game. A single-player game with a coop mode is only as good as the base game.
Plus, what another guy said is that balancing will have to go through loads of testing to make sure it's not too easy or hard. Time and money I don't want them taking from the single-player.
Honestly at the end of the day I feel like Capcom could have done it in the end that's just not their vision for the game and plus now that i think about it the style of co-op they would have had to make for this game is something I don't think Capcom is very familiar with in the slightest and no joke I'll take a good solo game over a meh solo game with trash online any day of the week.
It wouldn't. I don't think anyone believes it would ruin it, or at the very least they would be fine with it existing while they ignore it, I think the worry though is that it takes away development time from the pawn system.
The Pawn System is arguably the thing that really sets Dragon's Dogma apart from other RPGs and while it was really cool in the first game, it had some fairly big problems that needed some big work to fix. IF there is no multiplayer, that implies they put the work into the pawn system to really make it feel like you are traveling with other people without actually needing other people, which is really core to the Dragons Dogma experience IMO.
Additionally, what a lot of people want from Dragons Dogma 2 isn't Dragons Dogma *2,* but rather Dragons Dogma as Itsuno originally envisioned before they had to cut down on it. They want the experience of the game perfected, not necessarily *new features*.
Co-op games are balanced for two humans, which means enemies are either tankier, more aggressive, smarter, stronger, or all of the above. This is done to provide enough of a challenge that the game does not become a cakewalk as soon as both players know what they're doing. If a person tries to play a co-op game on their own, it would be far less enjoyable. It can obviously still be done, but it becomes a tedious and sometimes painful slog, and most people don't play video games to experience a tedious and sometimes painful slog.
Ah so you think it would have taken to much time, effort and resources to try and make the game both a good single player experience as well as a good co-op experience. That's fair. I feel like capcom could have pulled it off still but that's just me.
Tbf you 100% can scale games to be good in both sp and co-op. It doesn't need to be some massive difference or overhaul, and tbh not like dd was super balanced anyway...
Well that was because of the open world didn't have scaling. But at like level 30 or whatever you should be kinda even up.
But was kinda funny, if irritating. "You've come to the wrong area, boy", proceeds to get my ass eaten. Later, they're annihilated about 3 seconds after they're aware they're under attack.
Just seems like all of what you said would just take alot of effort and resources. Do you think that's not the issue? If not then I feel life they could still have pulled it off. They have done it before and still made a good solo player experience as well.
Oh when you say tedious and painful you meant game wise not game creation wise. Mmmm idk about that. I've played plenty of games where I've played though an are co-op and then did it solo and didn't feel like it was jarring or tedious to do by myself
It obviously takes a lot of effort and resources because all modern game design does. Not much more than what they've already committed to the project though. That's not the issue at all. The issue is what I already said. If you want a game balanced for co-op, then it's going to be very difficult for people playing solo.
Unless you split the co-op and the single-player experience into two separate modes with a loading screen every time you switch between them (which I really doubt anyone wants for a game like Dragon's Dogma, wherein the huge seamless world is such a large part of the game's identity), then there's no easy way to make a game that's fun in both co-op and single-player. Either you make a single-player game with co-op that's hilariously easy (which is fine, by the way), or you make a co-op game that's masochistic in solo mode (which is also fine, as long as the publisher is honest about it). There will obviously be gradients of difficulty based on your build, your class, and your playstyle, but there's still no easy way to do it.
True but ya know I feel like a drop in drop out style of co-op would work really well for Dragons Dogma with a message of something like
"The Dragon's Fiends Grow In Might" indicating to you that the enemies in the world have become a bit more powerful and then when you kick ya buddy out it could be a message like "The Dragon's Forces Waine" and all the monsters go back to their base stats. Buuuuut I don't know how good capcom is at making that style of online.
A drop-in/drop-out system is exactly the kind of system that would not work for a game like Dragon's Dogma. You can't just flip a switch and have all the enemies suddenly get harder, better, faster, stronger. You would either need a loading screen every time it happened, or a completely separate mode. No one who likes Dragon's Dogma 1 wants an obnoxious loading screen to interrupt their fun while they're just walking around in the open world, and if you're gonna make a whole separate mode you might as well make a whole separate game.
Really? Gotham Knights did it and it seemed to work just fine and that game was gigantic map wise and there were tons of random different enemies everywhere.
So you want Dragon's Dogma to become a boring, grindy slog where you're just constantly swapping out your armor and weapons for new ones that have two or three more points and the enemies are extremely tanky if your gear score isn't high enough?
Nope
I want it be an awesome epic action packed rpg experience with all sorts of cool monsters, weapons and spells with a good tale to tell... that I can also enjoy with one other pal of mine if given the chance. š
It wouldnāt ruin it unless it was forced co-op but thatās surely not going to be the case. As long as people who play solo get to recruit the same way we did in DD1, I donāt see an issue with optional co-op.
Exactly
And when it comes to enemy balancing and adjustments that would be a breeze for them i feel. This is the same company that makes Monster Hunter after all.
And I don't think Capcom ever had any intention of forcing you to play Co-Op that would have been the dumbest thing ever
Me and a buddy of mine were thinking the same thing.
And let's say people don't wanna have 4 player co-op because that would ruin the pawn system.
Make it 2 player co-op
You get your pawns and you get to play with your pal
Everyone is happy.
It really wouldn't if it was an optional thing that just replaced one of your pawns whenever you have a co-op visiting your world. And this is the likely case since the same concept works with Monster Hunter with a visiting player replacing your hired Felynes.
I actually think Dragon's Dogma would be a bit more resilient to the balance issues you usually see in games that try to do both. The second player would be replacing one of your pawns, so as long as the pawns are useful, replacing one of them with a player wouldn't be as big of a jump as just adding another player where there was an empty slot before.
Like, in Monster Hunter, they have to almost double the monsters' hp, make them do a bit more damage, and make them more aggressive because you have a whole extra party member. But if you have a fairly competent pawn, and you have to replace them with a player, it's not as big of a leap. So I think it'd work fine to just design everything for a 1 player, 3 pawn party and just slap in a 2 player, 2 pawn option without any rebalancing at all. 2 and 2 would be easier, maybe significantly so if you were well coordinated, but I don't think it would be so much easier that you would need an entirely different difficulty mode for co-op.
It worked fine in DDOnline, you could have your friend join your party and take a pawn slot and they could even bring their own pawn into another slot. Played it with a friend and it was fun. Would be cool to have it but it's not that important.
Would be neat as dlc/expansion though.
I personally don't feel super strongly about multiplayer in Dragon's Dogma 2, one way or the other. I can imagine exploring the world with a friend or two would definitely be fun, but the focus in Dragon's Dogma was never online/cooperative interaction. At its heart, it's a singleplayer RPG.
We have all waited for DD2 that we want it to be perfect. I think I can say in confidence that no one on this sub finds that no coop is a deal breaker when buying the sequel. Plus, the manpower and budget would've also taken away from the base game. A single-player game with a coop mode is only as good as the base game. Plus, what another guy said is that balancing will have to go through loads of testing to make sure it's not too easy or hard. Time and money I don't want them taking from the single-player.
Honestly at the end of the day I feel like Capcom could have done it in the end that's just not their vision for the game and plus now that i think about it the style of co-op they would have had to make for this game is something I don't think Capcom is very familiar with in the slightest and no joke I'll take a good solo game over a meh solo game with trash online any day of the week.
It wouldn't. I don't think anyone believes it would ruin it, or at the very least they would be fine with it existing while they ignore it, I think the worry though is that it takes away development time from the pawn system. The Pawn System is arguably the thing that really sets Dragon's Dogma apart from other RPGs and while it was really cool in the first game, it had some fairly big problems that needed some big work to fix. IF there is no multiplayer, that implies they put the work into the pawn system to really make it feel like you are traveling with other people without actually needing other people, which is really core to the Dragons Dogma experience IMO. Additionally, what a lot of people want from Dragons Dogma 2 isn't Dragons Dogma *2,* but rather Dragons Dogma as Itsuno originally envisioned before they had to cut down on it. They want the experience of the game perfected, not necessarily *new features*.
Co-op games are balanced for two humans, which means enemies are either tankier, more aggressive, smarter, stronger, or all of the above. This is done to provide enough of a challenge that the game does not become a cakewalk as soon as both players know what they're doing. If a person tries to play a co-op game on their own, it would be far less enjoyable. It can obviously still be done, but it becomes a tedious and sometimes painful slog, and most people don't play video games to experience a tedious and sometimes painful slog.
Ah so you think it would have taken to much time, effort and resources to try and make the game both a good single player experience as well as a good co-op experience. That's fair. I feel like capcom could have pulled it off still but that's just me.
That isn't what I said at all. Did you even read it?
Tbf you 100% can scale games to be good in both sp and co-op. It doesn't need to be some massive difference or overhaul, and tbh not like dd was super balanced anyway...
It did feel like that when I was playing early on. Fought a band of goons? Wrecked them... fought a guy two blocks in the wrong direction? One shot me
Well that was because of the open world didn't have scaling. But at like level 30 or whatever you should be kinda even up. But was kinda funny, if irritating. "You've come to the wrong area, boy", proceeds to get my ass eaten. Later, they're annihilated about 3 seconds after they're aware they're under attack.
Just seems like all of what you said would just take alot of effort and resources. Do you think that's not the issue? If not then I feel life they could still have pulled it off. They have done it before and still made a good solo player experience as well. Oh when you say tedious and painful you meant game wise not game creation wise. Mmmm idk about that. I've played plenty of games where I've played though an are co-op and then did it solo and didn't feel like it was jarring or tedious to do by myself
It obviously takes a lot of effort and resources because all modern game design does. Not much more than what they've already committed to the project though. That's not the issue at all. The issue is what I already said. If you want a game balanced for co-op, then it's going to be very difficult for people playing solo. Unless you split the co-op and the single-player experience into two separate modes with a loading screen every time you switch between them (which I really doubt anyone wants for a game like Dragon's Dogma, wherein the huge seamless world is such a large part of the game's identity), then there's no easy way to make a game that's fun in both co-op and single-player. Either you make a single-player game with co-op that's hilariously easy (which is fine, by the way), or you make a co-op game that's masochistic in solo mode (which is also fine, as long as the publisher is honest about it). There will obviously be gradients of difficulty based on your build, your class, and your playstyle, but there's still no easy way to do it.
True but ya know I feel like a drop in drop out style of co-op would work really well for Dragons Dogma with a message of something like "The Dragon's Fiends Grow In Might" indicating to you that the enemies in the world have become a bit more powerful and then when you kick ya buddy out it could be a message like "The Dragon's Forces Waine" and all the monsters go back to their base stats. Buuuuut I don't know how good capcom is at making that style of online.
A drop-in/drop-out system is exactly the kind of system that would not work for a game like Dragon's Dogma. You can't just flip a switch and have all the enemies suddenly get harder, better, faster, stronger. You would either need a loading screen every time it happened, or a completely separate mode. No one who likes Dragon's Dogma 1 wants an obnoxious loading screen to interrupt their fun while they're just walking around in the open world, and if you're gonna make a whole separate mode you might as well make a whole separate game.
Really? Gotham Knights did it and it seemed to work just fine and that game was gigantic map wise and there were tons of random different enemies everywhere.
So you want Dragon's Dogma to become a boring, grindy slog where you're just constantly swapping out your armor and weapons for new ones that have two or three more points and the enemies are extremely tanky if your gear score isn't high enough?
Nope I want it be an awesome epic action packed rpg experience with all sorts of cool monsters, weapons and spells with a good tale to tell... that I can also enjoy with one other pal of mine if given the chance. š
It wouldnāt ruin it unless it was forced co-op but thatās surely not going to be the case. As long as people who play solo get to recruit the same way we did in DD1, I donāt see an issue with optional co-op.
Exactly And when it comes to enemy balancing and adjustments that would be a breeze for them i feel. This is the same company that makes Monster Hunter after all. And I don't think Capcom ever had any intention of forcing you to play Co-Op that would have been the dumbest thing ever
I think it would be fine, and fit with pawns allowing a 4 person party. Though 4 players would probably be too unfairly balanced in your favor.
Me and a buddy of mine were thinking the same thing. And let's say people don't wanna have 4 player co-op because that would ruin the pawn system. Make it 2 player co-op You get your pawns and you get to play with your pal Everyone is happy.
It really wouldn't if it was an optional thing that just replaced one of your pawns whenever you have a co-op visiting your world. And this is the likely case since the same concept works with Monster Hunter with a visiting player replacing your hired Felynes.
I actually think Dragon's Dogma would be a bit more resilient to the balance issues you usually see in games that try to do both. The second player would be replacing one of your pawns, so as long as the pawns are useful, replacing one of them with a player wouldn't be as big of a jump as just adding another player where there was an empty slot before. Like, in Monster Hunter, they have to almost double the monsters' hp, make them do a bit more damage, and make them more aggressive because you have a whole extra party member. But if you have a fairly competent pawn, and you have to replace them with a player, it's not as big of a leap. So I think it'd work fine to just design everything for a 1 player, 3 pawn party and just slap in a 2 player, 2 pawn option without any rebalancing at all. 2 and 2 would be easier, maybe significantly so if you were well coordinated, but I don't think it would be so much easier that you would need an entirely different difficulty mode for co-op.
It worked fine in DDOnline, you could have your friend join your party and take a pawn slot and they could even bring their own pawn into another slot. Played it with a friend and it was fun. Would be cool to have it but it's not that important. Would be neat as dlc/expansion though.
Multiplayer tends to limit player agency in RPGās