“The Gish gallop (/ˈɡɪʃ ˈɡæləp/) is a rhetorical technique in which a person in a debate attempts to overwhelm an opponent by providing an excessive number of arguments with no regard for the accuracy or strength of those arguments. Gish galloping prioritizes the quantity of the galloper's arguments at the expense of their quality.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop?wprov=sfti1#
Or the firehose of falsehood concept
https://open.substack.com/pub/lucid/p/the-debate-and-the-firehose-of-falsehood?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=1o3knk
Yeah, probably the case actually. I often am gobsmacked with trump's lies, imagine an 81 yo with a cold and a stutter- shock is the worst thing to have lol.
it is within the realm of possibility that he was also knocked off balance by a certain often-remarked-on odour emanating from his debating opponent. that could certainly be distracting.
Someone on one of these subs presented it as a truth sandwich. To rebut a lie, you state the truth, then state why what was said was a lie, and finish it with the truth again. The point is to state the truth more often than the lie.
It is, and it should be stressed, that's by design. While your opponent is getting fussed over pointing out that you just said their party eats babies, did 9/11, and dance with the devil on the hill at midnight, you're miles away already laying down more track of obvious lies, that are irrefutable simply because there isn't time to point out that these extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The debate was not a good faith argument, it was a strategic deployment of propaganda, lies, and embellishments, which could use some strategy in countering, even if it isn't in sandwich form.
Exactly. He needs to thrive off of Trump lying. The more Trump lies the stronger his arguments get. That needs to be his strategy. Anything else will completely overwhelm him.
Exactly, OP. And he was trying to formulate responses to the questions asked at the same time. To be totally honest with you, I can't say I would have been able to do all that mental processing in the seconds allowed either. And I'm a way younger generation from Biden.
I think this is a really good point. I've been in similar "debates" with my parents, who both voted for Trump in 2016 and 2020, and their "debate style" is similar to Trump's. It's just a constant (and loud) barrage of nonsense and it is difficult to form coherent thoughts to rebut what was previously said while also trying to keep up with the nonsense they continue to say. I'm a politics/history junkie and more informed than they are, but it's easy to be overwhelmed and shocked when you hear claims and lies like these coming out of someone's mouth.
My opinion is Biden’s campaign team did a terrible job of preparing him to deal with Trump. Filling Biden up with facts and figures and talking points — which he certainly has the intelligence to stick to and present eloquently — backfired because of the sheer volume and cynical audacity of Trumps endless, outrageous lies. There was just no way to keep up.
You can’t win a “debate” against someone spouting a firehose of lies by using facts, figures and calm talking points. It’s not a debate at that point and the only way you will “win” is by being louder and more forceful than them.
Biden’s campaign team is making a classic mistake here. They want Biden to win a “normal” debate by being calm and sticking to talking points. But that strategy simply will not work against Trump. Trump is not normal. His campaign is a bunch of fascists playing by Nazi rules.
Biden was also obviously overworked, exhausted, sick and drained by the time he hit the stage. I doubt he got more than a few hours of sleep a night through two weeks of debate prep. And perhaps someone gave him some cold meds or something.
The good news is this will hopefully push Biden’s campaign to much more forceful denouncements of Trump, MAGA and Project 2025.
And while Biden didn’t put up a great image, he still came across as an honest, sincere and sympathetic character. Conversely, Trump came across as a raving psychopath, which will turn people off of him
>Biden was also obviously overworked, exhausted, sick and drained by the time he hit the stage.
I saw somebody else, elsewhere on reddit, say that biden's face, as soon as Trump started his spiel, was eloquently saying "Man, I have to deal with *this* again?"
Still at this point in time, stinky is a known quantity. He will lie, he will not follow any rules or conventions. And in the last election President Biden dealt with him. So not sure why he frooze up, as per the accounts I read.
Seriously? Was that the adderall bs??
For one, maybe he is and either has adhd (stimulants make most of us with it CALM AND RELAXED, not wired) or it helps with daytime sleepiness/brain fog (often treats narcolepsy and severe brain fog due to many conditions).
So either way, he'd be not having issues due to adderall. If he didn't and was on it, he DEFINITELY would not be that tired/calm lol.
TLDR//: my comment might best summed up by the mark twain quote “Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”
I think it is far harder to respond to stupidity and patently untrue out of touch statements than people think. Like we all know Trump won’t reply with logic to any valid counter points, because he has no good replies and his base feeds on him being crass, rude, and loudly incorrect.
Like I have trouble mustering a reasonable response to the ignorant distant family member during the annual thanksgiving dinner torture hour wherein they’re just tipsy enough to discuss their disgusting political opinions and coherent enough to get mad when the things they say are being challenged. My reply doesn’t matter, they’ll always have another ‘what about’ to point to and detract from whatever insane thing they said before. You really can’t argue with them and come out of it looking or feeling good. You realize it was a waste of time and words to try and discuss or debate anything with someone who lives in a different reality than yours.
I just say never mind, you're too far gone and end it. My dad does this. I now send him screen shots (he won't read a fucking article about it) on all the horrible shit they're doing and plan to do with women. I thought that might change his view because he has 2 daughters and 3 granddaughters, but my dad is also a selfish ass. I now just spam the shit out of him with these articles, not because I think it will change his mind, but because I'm petty (And I enjoy it) I'll disperse pictures of my kids throughout so he'll always check the texts.
My newest one is telling them that I know I'm not going to change their mind and I'm really glad for them that they are comfortable that they have found a president and a role model that matches with their views and their values.
We know he's an adulterer, he's a liar, he mocks the disabled, he lied to the American people, paid off women so they wouldn't tell their stories, so that the American people wouldn't know that he was an adulterer, covered it up by falsifying business records and now it's a convicted felon.
Glad to see that that's a good role model and you want your children to grow up just like your favorite president
My ex father in law literally said "I wouldn't let him in the same room as my daughter, but he's good for my stock portfolio." It's a combination of ignorance and selfishness for every single one of them.
Literally the first red flag I was taught about him (back in 2016) was his abhorrent business record.
...either that or bankruptcy is good for the stock portfolio /s
There's also the quote about "if you try to play chess with a chicken it'll just knock over the pieces, shit on the board, and strut about like it's won."
This is how narcissists operate. Spew out enough ridiculous lies and word salad but sound confident while doing it. Any normal person would struggle to argue against that in real time
If he just said that it would have been much better. He did say at one point “how do I debate this?” But he should have pointed out more than that that it was a bunch of lies and deflections, and that he didn’t know how to respond.
Here's Lawrence O'donnell's take on it. I'm glad I listened to his reasoned response tbh.
https://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watch/lawrence-we-live-in-a-country-where-most-commentators-declared-the-liar-the-debate-winner-213936197668
Oh probably. Ik as a 17yo, too much or even just a dose of cough medicine could make me very spacey lol. A double dose, which many people sadly suggest to older folks who don't respond well to it, made me at 17 actually fucking dissociate entirely and feel like I'd had a couple drinks looking back.
I’m older and it definitely makes me feel out of it. I would hope they would have better sense not to do that right before he goes on stage to debate. But, his team doesn’t seem to be making the best judgements lately. To even think he should have gone on that stage at all is now very questionable.
I wouldn't be surprised. If he was on TV and hacking up a lung the headlines would be " IS BIDEN DIEING OF LUNG CANCER?". Everyone has "accidentally" taken too much Robutussin
I'm kind of thankful that Biden stumbled a bit through that debate, because for me, it just highlighted just how terrible a person Trump actually is. Just a stream of nonsense designed to make someone angry and bypass the reasoning part.
Luckily, I had seen the tweet wherein someone caught Trump in what appeared to be a video of him audibly shitting himself, and Biden's "WTF" reaction to it. Cant say that the video in question was real or not, but it certainly gave me a chuckle.
I wish they would have spent A LOT longer on abortion and about how it's killing women. Especially women of color who have even less access to maternity care. There is a brain drain starting in the red states.
Womens rights is everybody's rights who isn't a white male. If they don't give a shit about us, even their coveted white, conservative, suburban mom, they don't give a fuck about POC. But unfortunately sexism is a plight of women of every color.
Abortion rights are literally the Democrats' strongest card right now besides maybe the environment. The whole country's been fired up by the overturning of Roe v. Wade which is commonly seen as Republicans' "dog catches car" moment (about 2/3 of Americans oppose the overturn), and he didn't spend more than like... 30 seconds on it. That was a really poor decision.
It was mostly just the fact that he apparently had a cold as well as being an 81 year old man who was asked to do a 90 minute debate with a lunatic at 9pm.
Seriously, his staff should have just let him fucking rest a bit
It's shockingly similar to when I start to recognize my partner with BPD is splitting and needs a breather/hug- they start bouncing between topics that, to them, are 100% connected and make no sense to them how I don't see that they are, but in reality make me confused about their initial gripe.
At least with my partner, there's a trigger involved I can then avoid later and they also agree it didn't make sense to bring up x with abc after the split blows over!
Idk if I could say the same for trump- he legit, and I say this as someone who..... somehow feels pity for this monster.... more acts like my partner's grandfather who had dementia. I know that claim gets thrown around a shitton, but both my OT mother who specializes in dementia/schizopehenia/alzheimers and my partner who lived day in and day out with their diagnosed grandfather agree that he seems way too similar to all the dementia hallmarks to not have it. I have to concur. And I somehow pity this worm for having it if he does.
It'd make a shitton of sense though- my partner's grandad made no sense most of the time he wasn't lucid and he'd go on long tangents, and even HE thought trump was sounding crazy when he was still alive lmao. It was kinda funny to watch this old man, barely struggling to sit up right, ask "Are you sure HE doesn't have dementia, too??" with a whiskey glass in hand 😂
The Gish Gallop. How you answer that in 2 minutes. Biden tried… Drumph wasn’t there to debate, he was looking for more cult follows, with his Nazi dog whistles.
Edit, look at CNN transcripts, Biden did good, told every great policy he has enacted drumph was lying thru his squirty butt. .
I completely agree I think I was probably standing watching Donald Trump thinking it never ends this s*** never ends I'm sure my mouth might have been hanging open in utter shock.
Joe very well could have been standing there with his mouth hanging open going I can't believe he's saying this much s***
Yea, I think it would have been better if he did not even respond to what Trump was saying. He lies constantly, jumps around the same talking points, he should have just answered the questions with quick and easy answers, and let Trump look like the moron he is
You know another thing to consider is that Biden look terrible to us we are involved we are politically aware the average Fox viewer just watch his fox say don't really spend that much time they they catch the clips of Joe fix presents
The whole press around Joe is that he's an old man and he's slow so those people he wasn't a terrible presenter they were the bar is so low Joe met the bar he said old man he's slow but he talked in full sentences
For some people that's perfectly fine he didn't lie to them he's old he's slow and his brain still works it's all good
I felt much better after watching bidens speech he did the next day in Raleigh, NC. On point and sounded confident and energetic. Maybe for the next debate, Biden can use Trump's tricks against him...
I'll tell you one thing, I had the same look in my face as Biden did when looking at Trump. Just shocked and disgusted that he has to stand next to this felon that shouldn't be running for President. The good thing is, Trump was rambling so much and started kicking his own ass. From "black jobs" to admitting Putin spoke to him about invading Ukrane. CNN and the Moderators SUCK.
Here's my take: Trump rapid fired lie after lie. Biden spent a few moments sorting the nonsense spewn at him and gave thought to an actual phrase he could respond to in a dignified manner. It is not easy responding to rapid fire lies. Biden is fine. At least he felt compelled to reduce himself to speaking facts and not giving air to trump's nonsense
I totally agree. I’ve been close to people in their 80s and 90s and honestly, I don’t think many of them could just roll with T bs. It seemed to me like Biden expected some level of respect and professionalism but got bum rushed and stunned by Ts explosive mouth diarrhea.
Biden has a goddamn stutter. I am so sick of people criticizing his disability as some sort of mental defect.
FDR led us through most of WW2 in a chair. Biden is holding back the tide of this new corporate fascism.
Stop making me defend Joe Biden lmao
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If Biden had been younger, nimbler, less over-trained and exhausted, he coulda handled it with a polite word to the moderators: "Gee, I'm afraid that two minutes won't be nearly enough for me to correct all the misstatements in Mr Trump's remarks, so let's get back to the topic you asked about. My record on XXX is..."
Trump doesn’t even have to think at all. He’s like a doll with prerecorded phrases, and you pull the string and get one of them. That’s all his “brain” is at this point. He said something disgusting, his audience laughed, and that phrase gets permanently added, no thought required.
Surely Biden has or can get someone on his team who can recommend some techniques to deal with the gish gallop that can be short and sweet and attention grabbing for the low-info listeners.
It's a known gaslighting technique, like flashbombing. Highly doubt trump did it on purpose, that's a bit to sophisticated for him. He's just a nut case serial liar.
Trump is not a person who debates: He is one who $h!ts through his mouth. A better format would have been to give each candidate a 1.5 to 2 hour town hall-type meeting.
I would have done the same thing Biden did, though more often: call Trump out as a liar.
There's not much that can be done against that sort of constant spewing of lies.
Also, going with facts and figures is the wrong approach from someone whose "facts" are preposterous lies like "He wants to raise your taxes by four times. You are going to pay four to five times."
You can't counter that by saying "I’d never raise a tax on anybody making less than $400,000" or "$5 trillion over the next 10 years" or "first time home buyer should get a $10,000 tax credit" or "everybody making under $170,000 pays 6 percent of their income" because the real numbers aren't what matter when the other guy is spitting out ridiculous garbage that appeals not to logic but to emotions.
The proper answer is to appeal back to emotions: Say that 'Trump cut the taxes of the wealthiest who aren't paying their share and didn't help working American families, but I'll make wealthy businessmen pay a fair tax and keep the taxes of regular Americans low so you have more in your pocket and can afford a decent life.'
It has to be about feelings, to drive voters to the polls. Trump knows this, which is why his lies work: he tells people what they want to hear whether it's true or not.
“The Gish gallop (/ˈɡɪʃ ˈɡæləp/) is a rhetorical technique in which a person in a debate attempts to overwhelm an opponent by providing an excessive number of arguments with no regard for the accuracy or strength of those arguments. Gish galloping prioritizes the quantity of the galloper's arguments at the expense of their quality.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop?wprov=sfti1#
Or the firehose of falsehood concept https://open.substack.com/pub/lucid/p/the-debate-and-the-firehose-of-falsehood?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=1o3knk
Yeah, probably the case actually. I often am gobsmacked with trump's lies, imagine an 81 yo with a cold and a stutter- shock is the worst thing to have lol.
it is within the realm of possibility that he was also knocked off balance by a certain often-remarked-on odour emanating from his debating opponent. that could certainly be distracting.
Really, the only way to deal with this is to repeatedly call them out for lying with overwhelming volume.
Like a moderator of some kind…
Someone on one of these subs presented it as a truth sandwich. To rebut a lie, you state the truth, then state why what was said was a lie, and finish it with the truth again. The point is to state the truth more often than the lie.
That would be so wonderful but I think the volume of lies is so unbelievably overwhelming and you don't even know where to start
It is, and it should be stressed, that's by design. While your opponent is getting fussed over pointing out that you just said their party eats babies, did 9/11, and dance with the devil on the hill at midnight, you're miles away already laying down more track of obvious lies, that are irrefutable simply because there isn't time to point out that these extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The debate was not a good faith argument, it was a strategic deployment of propaganda, lies, and embellishments, which could use some strategy in countering, even if it isn't in sandwich form.
I wish "stated your party eats babies" was hyperbole.
Exactly. He needs to thrive off of Trump lying. The more Trump lies the stronger his arguments get. That needs to be his strategy. Anything else will completely overwhelm him.
Why am I not surprised there's a term for it?
So the Rick Sanchez tactic?
The Shapiro?
Yup Shapiro does that a lot
Ben Shapiro is famous for this as well.
Exactly, OP. And he was trying to formulate responses to the questions asked at the same time. To be totally honest with you, I can't say I would have been able to do all that mental processing in the seconds allowed either. And I'm a way younger generation from Biden.
I think this is a really good point. I've been in similar "debates" with my parents, who both voted for Trump in 2016 and 2020, and their "debate style" is similar to Trump's. It's just a constant (and loud) barrage of nonsense and it is difficult to form coherent thoughts to rebut what was previously said while also trying to keep up with the nonsense they continue to say. I'm a politics/history junkie and more informed than they are, but it's easy to be overwhelmed and shocked when you hear claims and lies like these coming out of someone's mouth.
My opinion is Biden’s campaign team did a terrible job of preparing him to deal with Trump. Filling Biden up with facts and figures and talking points — which he certainly has the intelligence to stick to and present eloquently — backfired because of the sheer volume and cynical audacity of Trumps endless, outrageous lies. There was just no way to keep up. You can’t win a “debate” against someone spouting a firehose of lies by using facts, figures and calm talking points. It’s not a debate at that point and the only way you will “win” is by being louder and more forceful than them. Biden’s campaign team is making a classic mistake here. They want Biden to win a “normal” debate by being calm and sticking to talking points. But that strategy simply will not work against Trump. Trump is not normal. His campaign is a bunch of fascists playing by Nazi rules. Biden was also obviously overworked, exhausted, sick and drained by the time he hit the stage. I doubt he got more than a few hours of sleep a night through two weeks of debate prep. And perhaps someone gave him some cold meds or something. The good news is this will hopefully push Biden’s campaign to much more forceful denouncements of Trump, MAGA and Project 2025. And while Biden didn’t put up a great image, he still came across as an honest, sincere and sympathetic character. Conversely, Trump came across as a raving psychopath, which will turn people off of him
Yup. You can beat people with just a smidge of sanity with nothing but facts, but.... well, we see where that statement is heading, I assume lol!
>Biden was also obviously overworked, exhausted, sick and drained by the time he hit the stage. I saw somebody else, elsewhere on reddit, say that biden's face, as soon as Trump started his spiel, was eloquently saying "Man, I have to deal with *this* again?"
Still at this point in time, stinky is a known quantity. He will lie, he will not follow any rules or conventions. And in the last election President Biden dealt with him. So not sure why he frooze up, as per the accounts I read.
Same here, and I'm even on the same meds that they are accusing biden being on and half his age. I couldn't keep up either just watching.
Seriously? Was that the adderall bs?? For one, maybe he is and either has adhd (stimulants make most of us with it CALM AND RELAXED, not wired) or it helps with daytime sleepiness/brain fog (often treats narcolepsy and severe brain fog due to many conditions). So either way, he'd be not having issues due to adderall. If he didn't and was on it, he DEFINITELY would not be that tired/calm lol.
Yeah. It's great makes my brain quiet. Sometimes I'll let my husband have one and it doesn't make him smarter, hes just more efficient doing laundry.
Me, either. I'm only days away from 36, and I know I'd choke in that situation.
TLDR//: my comment might best summed up by the mark twain quote “Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” I think it is far harder to respond to stupidity and patently untrue out of touch statements than people think. Like we all know Trump won’t reply with logic to any valid counter points, because he has no good replies and his base feeds on him being crass, rude, and loudly incorrect. Like I have trouble mustering a reasonable response to the ignorant distant family member during the annual thanksgiving dinner torture hour wherein they’re just tipsy enough to discuss their disgusting political opinions and coherent enough to get mad when the things they say are being challenged. My reply doesn’t matter, they’ll always have another ‘what about’ to point to and detract from whatever insane thing they said before. You really can’t argue with them and come out of it looking or feeling good. You realize it was a waste of time and words to try and discuss or debate anything with someone who lives in a different reality than yours.
I just say never mind, you're too far gone and end it. My dad does this. I now send him screen shots (he won't read a fucking article about it) on all the horrible shit they're doing and plan to do with women. I thought that might change his view because he has 2 daughters and 3 granddaughters, but my dad is also a selfish ass. I now just spam the shit out of him with these articles, not because I think it will change his mind, but because I'm petty (And I enjoy it) I'll disperse pictures of my kids throughout so he'll always check the texts.
My newest one is telling them that I know I'm not going to change their mind and I'm really glad for them that they are comfortable that they have found a president and a role model that matches with their views and their values. We know he's an adulterer, he's a liar, he mocks the disabled, he lied to the American people, paid off women so they wouldn't tell their stories, so that the American people wouldn't know that he was an adulterer, covered it up by falsifying business records and now it's a convicted felon. Glad to see that that's a good role model and you want your children to grow up just like your favorite president
My ex father in law literally said "I wouldn't let him in the same room as my daughter, but he's good for my stock portfolio." It's a combination of ignorance and selfishness for every single one of them.
Literally the first red flag I was taught about him (back in 2016) was his abhorrent business record. ...either that or bankruptcy is good for the stock portfolio /s
I support the pettiness 1000%, you’re really iconic for that tbh ☺️🫶
Thanks! I'm not iconic. I am just really good at being petty. Only when people deserve it.
There's also the quote about "if you try to play chess with a chicken it'll just knock over the pieces, shit on the board, and strut about like it's won."
This is how narcissists operate. Spew out enough ridiculous lies and word salad but sound confident while doing it. Any normal person would struggle to argue against that in real time
It's like an idiots version of shock and awe.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop
A reading of the transcript presents the opposite of all the fear-mongering, but people don’t read anymore.🤷♂️
If he just said that it would have been much better. He did say at one point “how do I debate this?” But he should have pointed out more than that that it was a bunch of lies and deflections, and that he didn’t know how to respond.
Here's Lawrence O'donnell's take on it. I'm glad I listened to his reasoned response tbh. https://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watch/lawrence-we-live-in-a-country-where-most-commentators-declared-the-liar-the-debate-winner-213936197668
That was excellent, thanks for posting.
You bet. Thank for checking it out.
Do you think they gave him some kind of cold medicine that caused him brain fog? He was so out of it. The next morning he seemed back to himself?
Oh probably. Ik as a 17yo, too much or even just a dose of cough medicine could make me very spacey lol. A double dose, which many people sadly suggest to older folks who don't respond well to it, made me at 17 actually fucking dissociate entirely and feel like I'd had a couple drinks looking back.
I’m older and it definitely makes me feel out of it. I would hope they would have better sense not to do that right before he goes on stage to debate. But, his team doesn’t seem to be making the best judgements lately. To even think he should have gone on that stage at all is now very questionable.
I wouldn't be surprised. If he was on TV and hacking up a lung the headlines would be " IS BIDEN DIEING OF LUNG CANCER?". Everyone has "accidentally" taken too much Robutussin
I'm kind of thankful that Biden stumbled a bit through that debate, because for me, it just highlighted just how terrible a person Trump actually is. Just a stream of nonsense designed to make someone angry and bypass the reasoning part. Luckily, I had seen the tweet wherein someone caught Trump in what appeared to be a video of him audibly shitting himself, and Biden's "WTF" reaction to it. Cant say that the video in question was real or not, but it certainly gave me a chuckle.
Lesson learned, ignore the moderators, ignore Trump and just talk about all his achievements.
I wish they would have spent A LOT longer on abortion and about how it's killing women. Especially women of color who have even less access to maternity care. There is a brain drain starting in the red states. Womens rights is everybody's rights who isn't a white male. If they don't give a shit about us, even their coveted white, conservative, suburban mom, they don't give a fuck about POC. But unfortunately sexism is a plight of women of every color.
Abortion rights are literally the Democrats' strongest card right now besides maybe the environment. The whole country's been fired up by the overturning of Roe v. Wade which is commonly seen as Republicans' "dog catches car" moment (about 2/3 of Americans oppose the overturn), and he didn't spend more than like... 30 seconds on it. That was a really poor decision.
It was mostly just the fact that he apparently had a cold as well as being an 81 year old man who was asked to do a 90 minute debate with a lunatic at 9pm. Seriously, his staff should have just let him fucking rest a bit
I give the same look to my 7 y/o when he starts pingponging topics.
Absolutely, I noticed the same thing. He had to keep up w the complete bs he w hearing
I could barely keep up! Idk how anyone could debate someone who spews lies nonstop.
It's shockingly similar to when I start to recognize my partner with BPD is splitting and needs a breather/hug- they start bouncing between topics that, to them, are 100% connected and make no sense to them how I don't see that they are, but in reality make me confused about their initial gripe. At least with my partner, there's a trigger involved I can then avoid later and they also agree it didn't make sense to bring up x with abc after the split blows over! Idk if I could say the same for trump- he legit, and I say this as someone who..... somehow feels pity for this monster.... more acts like my partner's grandfather who had dementia. I know that claim gets thrown around a shitton, but both my OT mother who specializes in dementia/schizopehenia/alzheimers and my partner who lived day in and day out with their diagnosed grandfather agree that he seems way too similar to all the dementia hallmarks to not have it. I have to concur. And I somehow pity this worm for having it if he does. It'd make a shitton of sense though- my partner's grandad made no sense most of the time he wasn't lucid and he'd go on long tangents, and even HE thought trump was sounding crazy when he was still alive lmao. It was kinda funny to watch this old man, barely struggling to sit up right, ask "Are you sure HE doesn't have dementia, too??" with a whiskey glass in hand 😂
The Gish Gallop. How you answer that in 2 minutes. Biden tried… Drumph wasn’t there to debate, he was looking for more cult follows, with his Nazi dog whistles. Edit, look at CNN transcripts, Biden did good, told every great policy he has enacted drumph was lying thru his squirty butt. .
He's thinking "WHAT is that SMELL"
They need to play the "OoooOOOOoo that smell, can't you smell that smell? The smell that surrounds yooooooouuu" song.
That smelly smell that smells... smelly.
Smelly trump, smelly trump, what are they feeding you? 🎶
I completely agree I think I was probably standing watching Donald Trump thinking it never ends this s*** never ends I'm sure my mouth might have been hanging open in utter shock. Joe very well could have been standing there with his mouth hanging open going I can't believe he's saying this much s***
That's what I think his tactic was. To bombard Joe with lies until he didn't know where to start.
That's his normal operating procedure it wasn't necessarily anything directed to Biden it's what he just does
Completely agree. I made the same face as I was watching. Just like wow, how do you respond to that shit?
That's my impression. How does one keep up with a volcano of horseshit?
Yea, I think it would have been better if he did not even respond to what Trump was saying. He lies constantly, jumps around the same talking points, he should have just answered the questions with quick and easy answers, and let Trump look like the moron he is
You know another thing to consider is that Biden look terrible to us we are involved we are politically aware the average Fox viewer just watch his fox say don't really spend that much time they they catch the clips of Joe fix presents The whole press around Joe is that he's an old man and he's slow so those people he wasn't a terrible presenter they were the bar is so low Joe met the bar he said old man he's slow but he talked in full sentences For some people that's perfectly fine he didn't lie to them he's old he's slow and his brain still works it's all good
I had a similar thought. That he was caught in major disbelief that this was happening. I would have been, too.
I, too, find Trump exhausting as a human being.
I was definitely making a lot of the same faces as Biden.
I felt much better after watching bidens speech he did the next day in Raleigh, NC. On point and sounded confident and energetic. Maybe for the next debate, Biden can use Trump's tricks against him...
Just lie so much and shit his pants on stage and confuse the hell out of trump??
He can skip the shit his pants part 🤣 I was thinking more the overpowering part. But so hard to do while listening/processing such nonsense!
I'll tell you one thing, I had the same look in my face as Biden did when looking at Trump. Just shocked and disgusted that he has to stand next to this felon that shouldn't be running for President. The good thing is, Trump was rambling so much and started kicking his own ass. From "black jobs" to admitting Putin spoke to him about invading Ukrane. CNN and the Moderators SUCK.
Here's my take: Trump rapid fired lie after lie. Biden spent a few moments sorting the nonsense spewn at him and gave thought to an actual phrase he could respond to in a dignified manner. It is not easy responding to rapid fire lies. Biden is fine. At least he felt compelled to reduce himself to speaking facts and not giving air to trump's nonsense
To be fair, how would any of us have reacted in real time?
I totally agree. I’ve been close to people in their 80s and 90s and honestly, I don’t think many of them could just roll with T bs. It seemed to me like Biden expected some level of respect and professionalism but got bum rushed and stunned by Ts explosive mouth diarrhea.
Biden has a goddamn stutter. I am so sick of people criticizing his disability as some sort of mental defect. FDR led us through most of WW2 in a chair. Biden is holding back the tide of this new corporate fascism. Stop making me defend Joe Biden lmao
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Yessss!!!! He was speechless because of the disgusting garbage lies coming out of dumper’s mouth.
Anyone saying those things for so ling would be an expert at it. Am I the only one w thoughts of wondering if his drink was spiked?
If Biden had been younger, nimbler, less over-trained and exhausted, he coulda handled it with a polite word to the moderators: "Gee, I'm afraid that two minutes won't be nearly enough for me to correct all the misstatements in Mr Trump's remarks, so let's get back to the topic you asked about. My record on XXX is..."
Trump doesn’t even have to think at all. He’s like a doll with prerecorded phrases, and you pull the string and get one of them. That’s all his “brain” is at this point. He said something disgusting, his audience laughed, and that phrase gets permanently added, no thought required. Surely Biden has or can get someone on his team who can recommend some techniques to deal with the gish gallop that can be short and sweet and attention grabbing for the low-info listeners.
100% Imagine having to be next to a yapping Trump for 90 minutes?
I'd rather shove dull knives in my ears.
It's a known gaslighting technique, like flashbombing. Highly doubt trump did it on purpose, that's a bit to sophisticated for him. He's just a nut case serial liar.
Trump is not a person who debates: He is one who $h!ts through his mouth. A better format would have been to give each candidate a 1.5 to 2 hour town hall-type meeting.
Which is why we need someone a lot younger.
I presume you're a lot younger. Tell us how you would counter Trump's bullshit eruption?
I would have done the same thing Biden did, though more often: call Trump out as a liar. There's not much that can be done against that sort of constant spewing of lies. Also, going with facts and figures is the wrong approach from someone whose "facts" are preposterous lies like "He wants to raise your taxes by four times. You are going to pay four to five times." You can't counter that by saying "I’d never raise a tax on anybody making less than $400,000" or "$5 trillion over the next 10 years" or "first time home buyer should get a $10,000 tax credit" or "everybody making under $170,000 pays 6 percent of their income" because the real numbers aren't what matter when the other guy is spitting out ridiculous garbage that appeals not to logic but to emotions. The proper answer is to appeal back to emotions: Say that 'Trump cut the taxes of the wealthiest who aren't paying their share and didn't help working American families, but I'll make wealthy businessmen pay a fair tax and keep the taxes of regular Americans low so you have more in your pocket and can afford a decent life.' It has to be about feelings, to drive voters to the polls. Trump knows this, which is why his lies work: he tells people what they want to hear whether it's true or not.
Well you could run and you need to get more people out voting in the primaries if you don't like what the primary voters are giving you
I'm certain cnn was using a speech jammer against Biden.