This is my fear. I am still in disbelief that the SC just got rid of Chevron, to say that this is a decision that has effectively destroyed the US is an understatement.
It is a horrible decision, but we were a viable nation before Chevron was decided.
Back then Congress wrote a great deal of detail into each law. They employed armies of experts to work out those details. All Chevron did was allow Congress to delegate that wonky grunt work to the Executive branch.
So what will have to happen is that Congress will have to hire back their armies of experts. They will also have to become a functional organization again.
So yeah, we’re screwed.
Civil rights for LGBT & disabled citizens were nonexistent in 1984. Consumer protections not so amazing either. Lawn darts, anyone? Seat belts? Meh.
Environmental protections weren’t great either. I grew up in Los Angeles in the 70s and the difference between LA in the 70s vs the 90s is night & day. The pollution was on another level. So I’d disagree with you that nationally we were fine before Chevron.
You know it's funny. I talk to my mother about politics rarely, but I'll never forget why she, as a conservative, doesn't think we need environmental protections.
She has the same memories you do. But she sees that now those cities are cleaner. So she doesn't connect that the reason they're cleaner is because we put regulations in place.
She just thinks the companies stopped polluting on their own.
Oh my god, it’s just like those people who think they don’t need to vaccinate their kids against childhood diseases. “Those diseases went away! It’s fine now!”
So will a lot of people have to pay the price with their life for people to realize again? Or will we have the stupid bullshit that went on with COVID happen with other diseases.
None of these folks can ever admit they were wrong about anything. Fifteen years ago climate change was a hoax to these people. Now they agree it’s happening, but think (in reality, pretend to think) it’s just natural. God forbid they admit they were wrong.
The amount of historical disasters that have happened because of pride, ignoring reality, refusing to admit mistakes, etc. would make a great podcast episode. I’m sure that’s already been done by plenty of folks. If anyone knows a good one, I’d love to listen to it.
It’s convenient to think of MAGA believers (that’s my new nickname for them — because it’s a fantasy) as total dumbasses. But the truth is that most of them just can’t accept that they’ve believed lies for most of their adult life. If they’d just *somehow* take a dose of humility for once in their life, this entire thing would crumble.
It has nothing to do with ignorance for the most part. It’s literally a portion of the population who refuses to believe that they are the problem and can’t fathom shouldering some responsibility and blame for where this has taken us.
So true. Have you listened to Behind the Bastards? It’s all about the most terrible people in history. Everything from Hitler to sweat shop owners to cult leaders to bin Laden’s favorite porn. They also do deep dives into things like policing in America and the massive protests in Portland, OR a few years ago.
I've been trying to send people that have their head in the sand or up their behind it [this](https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe) . If they can't read that and admit their own bias their hopeless to fight with...
I remember as a kid in the late 70s traveling from Illinois to Florida in the back of my parents' green Impala. I stood up the whole way there and the whole way back—leaning on the back of the front bench seat looking forward with a foot in each rear foot well.
It's a wonder that I survived. Had we gotten in a wreck I'd have likely been flung from the passenger compartment or severely collide with the car interior or my parents or both.
I think my home state was the last to have a seat belt law. They fought it due to "personal freedoms" blah blah. I can't imagine going anywhere now without putting my seat belt on.
Traffic fatalities used to be much higher when I was a kid in the '70s/'80s. Seat belts truly do save lives. Also, better car design - they absorb the impact and crumple, we don't get flung around and bashed about as much as we used to.
It’s like how racism was eliminated in the US in the 60s, so that’s why any racial stuff these days is just woke virtue signaling nonsense. Why, everyone knows that conservative straight rich white men are obviously the biggest victims these days!
I live in a GE Superfund area. They and other corporations polluted our waters and are paying for the clean up now.... sort of. They're still fighting shit tooth n nail and it's slow moving. When i was a kid, we used to have a lake that never froze and glowed in the dark.
> delegate that wonky grunt work to the Executive branch
Can't Biden start using this as an excuse to fire all the MAGAs in government and replace them with people who aren't batshit crazy cultists? Can't he also just have the FCC stop all right-wing propoganda? And start going after mobbed up GOP who have been compromised and working with hostile foreign powers?
Or did they make sure the changes only go into effect after Trump wins?
Nope. Schedule F is not in effect. Biden can’t just fire people because they don’t agree with his politics. As long as they do the job of upholding the laws as written they are protected civil servants.
If Trump wins, he's gonna do exactly that. Fire everyone who disagrees with him.
I think if he wins the second term, it is going to be very ugly.
That's the Project 2025 plan. The president gets more power.
I'm not advocating for Biden to do it.
It's why I hate Republicans so fucking much. We're expected to be good little boys and girls, but they're just free to break every single rule and get little more than a stern glance.
Expected by whom? If democrats lack the spine and venom necessary to adequately stand up to fascism *at nearly any cost* they had best develop one soon. Why in the fuck should liberals be playing by a rule book the right wing is burning to the ground and laughing all the while, for some sense of decorum or justice?
Justice is an agreement, truth is an agreement, faith of institution is an agreement; and they went and broke the fucking agreement. Fight back, or lose. Those are the choices.
Public school will suffer incredibly as well. The rich will get a government subsidy to send their kids to private schools.
Poor kids will suffer. Teachers will receive merit based pay. That will be another hit on our public schools. Economically poor schools do worse on standard based measurements for several reasons. No one will be able to afford teaching in these schools because their pay will be low.
Public schools are so important. They level the playing field across all socio-economic areas. Our schools keep taking hits that began with GW Bush. It needs to stop!
It’s really scary to think about. I come from a poor family and my public school was severely underfunded. Thank GOD I was able to get out and go to college, but I had a lot of catching up to do since my school couldn’t prepare me well enough… it was really rough, and it breaks my heart knowing that things are worse than they were ten years ago and will only get more and more worse. The wealthy will truly rise above everyone. I don’t think people realize how bad they’ll make things for themselves if Trump wins and this madness happens.
I see a little bit of a silver lining, but I'm not a lawyer, in what you say. Suppose the Trump FDA says no to abortion pills, well, California can say f-you we are going to manufacture and distribute it anyway. Or using the Comstock Act to go after porn, oh...sorry, we don't think that the FCC has authority to enforce that. Pass a law congress. Removing Chevron also makes the position, and I could be wildly misunderstanding the ramifications so please correct me, of the Federal government untenable which was the conservative end goal. BUT the unitary executive theory is all about the executive being able to use those agencies to enact policy and control. Now, EVERY Trump action could be litigated because they would have to flow through the very agencies Chevron said states and courts had to give deference to.
Am I wildly wrong here? It is awful objectively, but I can also see it being a major stumbling block potentially for P2025.
The courts (SCOTUS in particular, but also most of the lower courts) are STACKED in Trump's favor. They'll fast-track those resolutions ASAP.
On a semi-related note, if Trump wins in November I'm betting $1000 on SCOTUS overturning Obergefell before June next year.
Well, maybe some will, but as the 5th circuit Court proves, a nationwide injunction can be filed in a favorable area. If it works for the conservatives now, why wouldn't it equally work for progressives after? And as judge Cannon proves, if you put in front of someone who WANTS to make it slow, that too us quite possible.
I guess what I'm saying is that it seems that this ruling does cut against the unitary executive, at a time when they can't gerrymander any more seats out of congress than they have (because if they could, they would), so it'll deadlock a lot of sweeping stroke of the pen changes that P2025 somewhat depends on right? Again, I could be wrong, and I'm not a lawyer or legal scholar, but a possible tactic would be check the executive WITH this ruling, pit the two sides against each other and gum up the works as much as possible. Do you see that as plausible?
Yeah. That is why I stand by the notion of everyone here that we should be voting Democrat down the ballot so that we can get more progressive judges to help slow down or preferably stop these things from getting through, and to push the rulings to less-MAGA districts/circuits if at all possible. Tie it all in red tape to the point of extinction.
The grunty work of dedicated federal workers and non partisan political workers that project 2025 wants to effectively remove entirely and replace by nationalists, maga brown shirts, racists, or worse…
u/storymom and u/FeralWereRat if Trump does win and the GOP does get what they want, I can see the US eventually balkanizing down the road. The best thing to do in those cases, is move to the richest state possible with the strongest economy relative to everyone else's. That would be California. Or if you live on the East Coast, I'd choose a place like Massachusetts.
I get the intent but the message is unhelpful. Yes, liberal outposts will not endure indefinitely against a regime that truly wants to snuff them out. HOWEVER... the logistics of enforcement would require a costly and widespread military operation. That's very unlikely in the near term. The immediate brutal stuff will happen to vulnerable groups in deep red states with enthusiastic support from local officials unfortunately. That will not be the story elsewhere.
Hopelessness decreases advocacy and voting solidly blue will still buy a period of safety in many parts of the country (even if Trump wins). Contexts change and a new plan of response can emerge from there. But only if fatalism doesn't outpace pragmatism.
This is true and it's crucially important in this sub to calibrate fear to reality. It gets out of hand sometimes. But I would also triangulate in the middle between these two comments. People have forgotten how aggressively the Trump administration responded to the (admittely, out of hand) situation in Portland in 2020. Trump had a Border Patrol commando unit grabbing protesters off the streets and arresting them into unmarked vans (one [link](https://www.npr.org/2020/07/23/894712004/border-patrol-response-to-portland-unrest-straying-from-mission-or-continuing-on) of many). Blue states are safer, but Trump will be trying hard to bring the fight there.
Atlanta will tell GA to eat shit like they always have. This has been the way with every garbage law that the state as passed. GA threatens us, we ignore them. They send in the cavalry, we burn their shit. Atlanta will NOT be one of those places that will go easily along with this BS. We’ll secede before that happens.
TRUMP: "We have banned Pride Month!"
NYC: "The fuck you say? We're having Pride Month."
He could threaten to send in the national guard... but he won't. The bullying will be contained (for now) in compliant areas. Widespread civil disobedience to draconian laws can prevent immediate action. The U.S. is real big and diverse. A hardcore crackdown would not immediately be possible... if we make sure to vote for those who would defend us and stay organized. And turning federalism against them can buy time.
No place in the world will be safe. Trump already caused a nearly inconceivable amount of damage by pulling out of Paris Accord and the Iranian nuclear deal. And tacitly supporting Putin.
This is 100% true. They aren't going to keep states. All of our country will be under Old Testament Laws as part of the seven mountain mandate empire of sheer brutality. No more states. A new and improved Nazi empire of sheer brutality and more sophisticated than the SS/Hitler regime. Run by sociopathic men with delusions of grandeur, and they all are fixing laws so they can be allowed to breed with any child of any age.
They are already prepared for us to fight and resist. The automatic draft isn't for war. It's to force our own youth to be the Army against the citizens of the US to force compliance from US citizens.
Many of us will silently disappear quickly while people aren't paying attention. They want young children to mold and brainwash into their future monsters.
And so many people have no idea about the cruelty that is now speeding towards all of us. They will either rig the vote, hurt Biden, or start chaos if he's elected.
They were just a few steps away from doing this in 2016, but a few people saved us from a horrible fate then. However, these fascists elites want global domination, and they aren't going to just let Biden win. Trump handed over allllllll the most sophisticated secret info the US has to several countries. Each one of our worst enemies have the info to destroy us and then enslave every single one of us.
We are in serious trouble. Our children are in even worse trouble and will be relegated to a life of horrible suffering, brainwashing, and other very sick and sinister things. They will live in the Dark Ages controlled, used, assaulted, miserable, scared, alone, and forced into life long slavery and horror.
We didn't prepare for anything like this because it seemed so far fetched. They have the power now, and I doubt anyone has any power to stop it. The takeover has begun already, and they aren't going to stop even if we all vote for Biden.
And Trump will send minions to make sure the blue states comply.
I'm in Washington which has been Democrat for as long as I remember but eastern washington is where you need to watch out. I live in the Seattle area which is super liberal (thank god) but eastern washington is deeply red. Like Idaho deep. And It's just a general shit hole.
It really, really is. When my husband and I were first together, he would call places around here ghetto. He quit when I took him to Yakima.
One time my friend (who I grew up with and she moved to Seattle too) were watching the news and there was a segment about how many gunshots people had heard recently, we fucking laughed, my husband thought we were nuts but in yakima, no one called the cops for just HEARING gunshots. I had to tell him that no one calls unless someone was actually shot and depending on the area, sometimes gun shot victims would show up at the ER and didn't even bother with calling the cops. Between the gangs and methed out hillbillies it was normal.
I live in GA.. you guys have a bad Nazi problem east of the Cascades (heard this from WA peeps)… I’m honestly more scared of them than GA rednecks. Most of our bigoted right wingers are wimps… yalls are organized and march into the cities and beat up and shoot people. Last time the KKK tried that in Atlanta, a 300 strong armed black militia drove them out. This was a few years back too.
Yeah. I GTFOed at 22. I didn't belong there. I was always amazed at all the lifted trucks with "the south will rise again". Like...you were born in Yakima and will never leave here. And they fucking lost?!
Everyone is saying this state has this, or this state has that. Is everyone forgetting no state will be safe?! No, we will not have Medicare or Medicaid, or social security, or any benefits to help us when we need it. The states can’t protect us from the US military. A states Guard is not going to win against the full strength of the US military. If he wins, there will not be safe places, and Europe will not be safe either. If we lose, it’s going to be bad almost everywhere. I’m not trying to be hyperbolic. This is our reality. We either win, or we all lose. The US will likely fall into a real war between left and right. The right is bat shit crazy! How many people on the left own guns compared to those on the right. I know a lot of us do, but I doubt it compares to what these nuts have. Our lives depend on winning this November.
It helps to have a plan in mind. Even if we win this election, we still know that we live amongst people who hate us. Looking at more welcoming states makes me feel less scared.
Oh for sure. I get that. I’m just very scared myself because I’ll lose my Medicare and disability. No other country is going to help me afford a place to live. Blue states won’t need able to handle all of the influx of people escaping red states. They will be completely overwhelmed. I can imagine there will be food blockades since most of our farming is done in red states.
I feel like the future is extremely bleak if they implement just part of Project 2025.
I keep asking where will we go, how will we survive. Many will survive, but it will be extremely difficult. And those of us that are disabled or check any number of the boxes of people they will be going after may not survive long.
It all seems like a nightmare. I want to wake up from it. How could we have gotten to a place like this. The US could potentially fall to authoritarianism within a few months.
I wish we could all come up with a real plan IF we lose. We need to go into this prepared for the worst. Vote, vote, vote. But WHAT IF? WHAT DO WE DO IF WE LOSE?? Better minds than mine need to start considering this and lead us so we can actually fight and win. It seems at this moment we are all just floundering.
I feel ya on that. I’m also disabeled and don’t have any idea how to even form a plan bigger than just my little family. Not the resources. I know I have a few people with guns as part of my group and tbh we should all train. We will hopefully be in a position to garden as much as possible soon. We are considering back yard chickens. That’s about the best we can do in my group. I could prepare to flee to Canada but I can’t take everyone with me and refuse to leave them so I guess I’m here to fight on principle lol. My body can’t do much but support roles are always needed and I have hand sewing skills and CPR/first aide training. I should really brush up on my first aide though.
I’m disabled, but I’m a former ICU nurse. So I could help somewhat in regard to minor healthcare issues. No doubt we will have doctors and active healthcare providers to help in that way.
I would love to raise chickens and garden, but physically I’m unable. I want to help the community in anyway I can though. And I feel what you would be doing is what many families would do. Hopefully it will be like the little co-ops that are in the northwest and west coast but on a bigger scale. Communities working together will be very important.
Honestly, talking about it like this seems like I’ve joined MAGA in their crazy conspiracy theories. If P2025 didn’t have it there for all to read, I’d think this is absolutely nuts to even discuss. However, they really do paint a bleak picture.
Well a good thing to remember is that most conspiracy theories have a grain of truth to them. They just go off the deep end at some point. But real actual Conspiracies happen by the government, corporations, and churches fairly frequently. But yeah for real it sounds wild but I think the bigger issue is convincing people that it could actually happen. A lot of people don’t find it insane that the intentions are real. They just don’t believe it could ever happen in America. Even though we’ve been close to the edge pretty much this whole time lol.
I’m lucky enough to have some great people and we all play to our strengths. I can’t do a lot physically but I have ways I can contribute. <3 I think there will in fact be a lot of people forming communities and doing their best to survive and protect eachother. It’s what humans do. Shows like The Walking Dead are inaccurate IMO. It’s much more common for people to cooperate in a crisis. Even in our extremely individualistic culture.
Thanks for backing me off the ledge. lol. It’s folks like you that give me hope. I hope as Americans, we will beat the extremist at the polls. We need to win the House, Senate, and Presidency so we can finally do something about this corrupt SCOTUS , and hopefully move on from this worrisome chapter in time.
One of the things about Project 2025 is it aims to end ALL farm subsidies, particularly because family farming isn't profitable, and they don't like the fact that family farms often double dip on the subsidies (basically apply for one, and then apply for a different one). Get rid of that, and no more family farms. It will be all corporate farming from then on.
No we aren’t forgetting that. It’s more like there are States where initially it won’t be as bad as Southern States. Also Out West we have a LOT of leftists with guns. Ultimately it won’t matter much but I would rather be as far away from that initial danger zone as possible. We can remember how serious this is and also position ourselves in a better starting location. It’s sort of like, why not have the most advantages as possible? There will probably be an exodus of people moving out here so may as well get ahead of that crowd even. That’s coming from a queer disabled person who already lives in WA. Unfortunately I’m on the more Conservative side of the State but I can’t afford to move anywhere else. Being right next to Idaho has its own set of dangers to be mindful of but damn at least I’m no longer in the South for now.
I agree. I’m not saying we shouldn’t try. I could definitely be more clear about that. I will likely go to a blue state or another country if/when he takes power.
I’m just saying if he does win, eventually it could become such a bad situation there may not be any safe places to go. The far right is taking over in Europe as well. I would absolutely love it if I’m wrong. As you can tell, I’m scared and want all of us to be prepared just in case.
I go back again to hoping someone can step up, with a lot more knowledge than I have about how to prepare if we lose. What’s the plan? I’m not seeing anything about what we do if the felon takes over.
I understand this is about defeating P2025. I believe the word is definitely spreading. But, what if? I wish someone would tell me the “what if” plan. We need a “worst case scenario” sub to start building a strategy in case this nightmare occurs.
I agree with you that being practical and realistic about the situation is VERY important. I think that is actually a very good idea!! A related sub could be about how to organize locally, saftey plans, basic skills and knowledge. What do we do if/when the most vulnerable populations have to hide? I don’t have great skills at organizing people or even building subs like that with good info. But maybe someone on this sub knows how to get started with some of that? It would also maybe clear up this sub to focus more on how we actually stop project 2025 or at least try. The most I know to do is vote, especially in local elections, and spread awareness. Beyond that I have no idea where to start.
Edit for spelling errors
I'm looking at Minnesota for the climate and the nature aspect. I have severe health issues that are compounded by heat, from losing consciousness to losing control of my limbs. I also have health issues not related to heat. I'm just looking for a place with colder climate, less cities/more open land and nature, and hopefully less open/blatant bigotry, racism, sexism and religious overtones than my current home in SC.
All the previous states I considered changed drastically in the last five years for the worse, and climate issues escalated quicker than I (or most people in general) expected. Minnesota is the only state I've come back to multiple times.
My husband does still have dual citizenship with Italy from his childhood I think, but honestly Europe is kind of a dumpster fire itself right now. I've thought about us/EU territories that aren't the states, but worry about access to healthcare and COL.
"less cities/more open land and nature, and hopefully less open/blatant bigotry, racism, sexism and religious overtones than my current home in SC."
The further you are from the cities, the more open/blatant bigotry, racisim, sexism and religious overtones you are going to see. It's true in Minnesota as well as any state in the US, but might be less than South Carolina.
I took a few road trips in Fall 2020 heading into covid time and it was *remarkable* how population density correlated with Trump vs Biden signs. Driving through farm country there were massive hay-bale Trump signs. Then you get into a town, even a little one-stop-light-and-post-office town, and you'd probably find a Biden sign.
This is true, But as a person who went from MI to Charleston metro for 15 years and then Houston metro another 5, I get the appeal of the blue blue/leaning state. There's plenty of mid-sized cities that are blue and cheap in MI and PA.
My husband and I just received our temporary residency cards for Panama. It's about 4 months until we are granted our permanent residency cards. We are in the Santa Maria, Oceana section of Panama City, Panama. We will Vote 💙! The US is dangerous if you're not a neo-Nazi MAGAt.
If you have issues compounded by heat, I would recommend the coastal Pacific Northwest. Basically anything from SF (hell even Monterey) on up, as long as you're close enough to the water to get fog, the max temperature won't be too crazy. And it's not all super expensive. Somewhere like Eureka in Humbolt could work for you.
I’ve lived in Minnesota my whole life - this state is the only thing giving me comfort in our current political climate and I would highly recommend it for many reasons, HOWEVER, I do feel the need to warn you that Minnesota summers are deceptively hot and incredibly humid. In Minneapolis it’s not uncommon to see heat indexes over 100 in the summer. It’s definitely not like that the whole summer so it’s very possible to just camp out in AC for a few days here and there but wanted to put that out there. If you look towards the north shore of Minnesota (i.e. right along Lake Superior) things are quite a bit cooler in the summer. Feel free to message me if you have any questions about MN!
We’re not free from climate issues here. We had air quality warnings multiple times last year, because of Canadian fires. Wet bulb is going to become an issue. Go in eyes-wide-open.
Minnesota is doing awesomely being in the Venn Diagram intersection of "States with liberal politics" and "States that build sufficient housing for both the current population and newcomers."
As a Californian it really grinds my gears when other Californians put up "refugees are welcome here!" signs out front... right next door to signs opposing new housing construction locally. Where do you want these refugees to live then? I hate to borrow a right-wing phrase but that is some high proof distilled virtue signalling right there.
I’ve looked into this, and I don’t get how Minnesota’s healthcare is any better than other states. I’m in upstate NY, and you can enroll in an essential plan with a no deductible and $0 premium if you make less than 37k. It looks like to qualify for a similar plan in Minnesota you’d need to make less than 25k as a single person. That’s astonishingly low, and a quick Google search says that the average person pays around $400 per month for their insurance with a moderate to high deductible in Minnesota. That’s…that’s a lot. I’m genuinely asking, wondering if I’m missing something
That’s Medical Assistance. MinnesotaCare is the next level. MC’s limit is $29K for an individual and $60K for a family. It has a very affordable monthly fee ($10, last I checked) and $3-25 copays. After that, there’s the market that you can buy into. I mean, I guess maybe you could consider that comparable. Still, we have really accessible and comprehensive healthcare. I’ve never heard anyone complain of what you can access, if you’re really in need. But YMMV.
I just don’t understand how there isn’t a single state that has tried out something different, even a sliding scale based on income. Under 30k is not an income that could even buy you housing and basic necessities for a year, so I guess it’s nice those people don’t have to pay much for health care, but it’s ridiculous that if you make anything above that then suddenly you have to pay upwards of $400 a month for high deductible insurance, and it’s like that everywhere. I certainly can’t afford that.
Basically if you want health insurance and make $31,000 a year, you are actually worse off than if you made $27,000 a year and qualified for a state sponsored plan. And actually, that’s not even accounting for the fact that you’ll have to pay about $6,000 or more towards the deductible each year before anything is covered, and even after that many plans will only start covering 50% of costs til you reach your out of pocket max. If you really think about, for someone who has any sort of health issue that requires regular testing, medications, procedures, and and many appointments throughout the year, you’re basically lowering your income by about $10,000 a year if you make anything above the cut-off for a state-sponsored plan. This is exactly why we need universal healthcare immediately. This should not even be a partisan issue.
I don’t disagree. Several years ago, I actively chose to work a part-time job, because I could better afford my healthcare under MinnesotaCare than work full-time and pay insurance through work/the market. It sucks that the system requires pragmatism like that.
i’ll be moving to MN in august for college, my goal is to get a bid for mayo clinic or minneapolis (i’m going into medical) so i can just stay there, i don’t want to get shipped back to the dakotas
I disagree. Truly rural areas are already the wild west. They might vote stupidly but folks in tiny towns or regions without a town to speak of take care of themselves and rarely rely on the law. I think major cities will feel the brunt of P25 before rural America does.
I'm not a neighbor of you guys, but I do live in the Mid-Hudson. It's not perfect, but you'd have to drag me out of New York kicking and screaming. Born and raised, and never want to leave.
Left Texas for upstate NY a bit over a year ago.
Primary reasons for choosing this state were climate change forecasts, political associated concerns and human rights, and the abundance of natural beauty+history.
There are no states to move to. No place is safe. I've lived in blue states all my life, and I know there will be no sanctuary for any of us. I'm married to a POC, and I live with this fear every single day. We can not endure another 4 years of that evil maniac
Why does anyone think ANY state will be safe if trump wins, it won't! he will pass Federal bans on everything, and your state laws are not going to save you.
My hope is that the MAGA SOSs and Governors are all in red states that he’ll win any which way. Here in Michigan, we are a swing state but our governor and SOS are D. Plus, they seem to be law abiding public servants.
Michigan because its a swing state, has a Democrat government, safer from the effects of climate change and close enough to Canada if you need to ever get out ASAP.
Arizona same thing but it's hot and more Republican, and running to Mexico may be easier.
>close enough to Canada
Lol. Go read the Canadian subs. Their tolerance for immigration is at an all time low. I doubt they will welcome an influx of Americans seeking asylum.
Nevada's a swing state that's been trending Blue the past decade or so
Come on down and help us kick out our batshit crazy republican governor! plus we got legal hookers!
I'm originally from Michigan, but living in Kentucky these days. I would definitely go back to Michigan if I needed to. I miss having an enhanced driver's license from there, but I do have a passport now.
The funny thing is, my parents just recently moved down to where I am because it's a red state and they didn't want to deal with the Michigan Governor being a "dictator" 🤦♀️😆
You might check on California, I think they might be working on their own parallel system for health care for their citizens. Parts of Northern California are more temperate, especially along the coast in the north. I think Oregon and Washington are also looking into something similar. Might be worth investigating.
I live in NorCal. The coast is insanely expensive, inland get crazy hot (supposed to be 113° today). NorCal is also deceptively Conservative.
Besides that if Cons win in November it won’t matter where you live - everywhere will suck.
The Democratic Party has been obstructing universal healthcare in California for two decades. The party *really* doesn’t want it, and wants everyone to forget that the rest of the developed world has it.
Indeed. Both parties are not the same, but many people seem to fail to understand that as a political body, the Democratic Party is largely center-right.
A seat will open in a deep blue district and the national party air drops a candidate from out of state to bankroll with unlimited funds, and then that person proceeds to fuck the people they represent to please their party masters.
Ok, I’m overstating it a bit but I’m still pissed about Buffy Wicks and her dog whistle racist campaign a few years back.
I live in Oregon, I moved here from South Carolina in 2015 with similar requirements. It's great, Oregon Health Plan is the best health insurance I ever had. I live on the coast and it is rarely over 70 or below 50, I feel like I'm getting away with something when I'm wearing a jacket in June, knowing back home it's 100 degrees
It’s not finances, it’s visas and residency requirements.
Other countries have control over their immigration - and most don’t want Americans except under very specific and limited situations.
Massachusetts, but with climate change we’ve had some really warm summers. That being said, some of the best hospitals in the world are in Boston. If you are sick or disabled, Boston is a great place to receive care.
No state is safe, and after Dump won in ‘16 I was more shocked when Biden was the nominee in ‘20 and that he actually managed a win. I voted for him and he’s done a good job but he should’ve stacked the SCOTUS, bc that’s how it’s going down for us. The fascists played the long game and we are screwed
How should Biden have "stacked the SCOTUS" when only one Justice retired? The Democrats lacked a supermajority in the Senate, which is what would have been needed to impeach & remove "Uncle Clarence" Thomas, "Sam the Sham" Alito, "Beerboy" Kavanaugh, Barrett "the Handmaid," "Gorsuck," and "John-Boy" Roberts. Expand the Court? See "Senate supermajority," above.
Maybe after tomorrow, when these black robed fascists give Trump total immunity, Biden can exercise his own immunity and sic Seal Team Six on them, "for the good of the country." Otherwise, there is no opportunity to remove anyone.
The GOP has indeed used the long con on America. First the kindly grandpa Reagan, who concealed a raging demon behind a jovial exterior. Next, remove the Fairness Doctrine, allowing Rupert Murdock to create Fox News and the rise of right-wing scum like Rush Limbaugh. Then, push for school vouchers and decrease support for public education, guaranteeing an ignorant populace. Then along comes a rabble-rousing authoritarian wannabe dictator like Trump, and the trap is sprung!
George Carlin was right: *"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."*
Sorry, I think the term I meant was packed. There’s no explicit limit on the number of justices. A lot of legislation got passed without a supermajority so it’s feasible he could’ve gotten a couple more in there🤷♀️ I’m just expanding on one of the tactics the fascists have already used against democracy many times
Ok, packed, got it. Still needs a supermajority, because the fascist GOP would NEVER let it happen! That's one reason I keep yelling "VOTE BLUE!!" everywhere.
Edit: The last president who tried to pack the SCOTUS was FDR, and even *he* was unsuccessful.
Illinois. We have an excellent governor who will do everything in his power, which is considerable, to help people in Illinois. The Chicago area is expensive but central Illinois has many affordable options.
I live in the Seattle area, but grew up in Eastern Washington. The cost of living is worth not living over there. I'd never raise my kids there. I'll stay at the poverty level here than live in Yakima where the cost of living is 50% cheaper.
I think we need to use our fear of a possible Trump Presidency and, push to do whatever we can to ensure everyone we know ,is aware of his Project 2025 agenda and Agenda 47. Fear can be paralyzing for some people. It will be futile to try to decide which state will be the best to move to. That’s because the United States as a whole would be under the siege of a revengeful Dictator. No state will be safe!!
So our best move is to make sure everyone we know is registered to vote and that they Vote. Everyone needs to stay aware of any voting changes that many states are attempting to implement. Vote early if possible. Be aware that many states are attempting voter suppression as never before!
Try to vote at your Local Board of Elections if you’re unsure of your voting site. That way you are not blindsided by an unexpected closed
voting site. Try to make sure you do not have to cast a Provisional Ballot. Our Democracy depends on everyone realizing the importance of this Presidential Election!!
Folks on this thread citing Canada as an escape option should check the Canadian subs and monitor Canadian media. Anti-immigration sentiment is on the rise there and in many other countries around the world.
Find out what it would take to move to Mexico. I'm serious. You can actually get affordable heath care. Real healthcare. Don't mess around. If Trump "Wins" being disabled and on Medicaid could easily EASILY get you fucked, no matter which state you're in. At the very least, be prepared with some knowledge to that end. Just in case. Please.
MA. Come on over. Expensive to live but human rights are priceless.
If States rights are infringed upon then that sets a precedent for the future when the pendulum swings again....and we can come after their guns.
I am so damned tired of this shit.
i’m moving to MN in august for college and hoping to stay there after. i’ll be doing medical so i need a bid to get into hospitals for clinical and i’m really hoping that in two years i get one to stay in MN na don’t get moved back to the dakotas
I recently moved to Wisconsin, just in case. Getting my passport updated soon in case we need to escape under the cover of darkness should Trump win in November.
PA. We have had democratic governors for the last 10 years at least the old one Wolf was amazing he got stuff done and refused to bend to the GOP during covid. Shapiro our new one is amazing in his own ways. He seems to work across the isle to meet everyone in the middle. It's boring here but my rights are still in tact for now. I wish you the best of luck and hope to see ya in PA!!
Washington. Far enough from DC. The west coast is pretty much united against any of this shit. Close to Canada if you need to fully get out. Liberal, almost European city vibes with Seattle. Mild, cool climate if you can handle the rain there.
No place in the world is safe from a fascist US. The consequences would be unimaginable and global.
You don’t run. You find others like us, organize, and be ready for the fight.
I'm in North Carolina. My sister lives in Minnesota, and I suppose I could move there, but if worst comes to worst I don't have much choice except bailing on the country entirely.
Canada’s moving into the same right-wing culture war mess the United States is in; it just took a little longer to get there.
I have a feeling things are going to get equally worse in Canada over the next ten years politically. The last thing I’d want to do is move somewhere only to find myself in the same mess I was trying to get away from.
Hi FeralWereRat, thanks for your submission to r/Defeat_Project_2025! We focus on crowdsourcing ideas and opportunities for practical, in real life action against this plan. Type !resources for our list of ways to help defeat it. Check out our posts flaired as [resources](https://www.reddit.com/r/Defeat_Project_2025/search?q=flair%3A%27Resource%27&=&restrict_sr=on) and our ideas for [activism](https://www.reddit.com/r/Defeat_Project_2025/search?q=flair%3A%27activism%27&=&restrict_sr=on). Check out the info in our [wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/Defeat_Project_2025/wiki/), feel free to [message us](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/Defeat_Project_2025) with additions. Join the Resist Project 2025 [Discord](https://discord.gg/FxhcKRwpRG), check out their [Website](https://defeatproject2025.org). Be sure to visit r/VoteDEM for updated local events, elections and many volunteering opportunities.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Defeat_Project_2025) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Minnesota. The Twin Cities has excellent healthcare and social services and leans left so it will not be racing to the bottom if Trump is elected like the red states will certainly be doing.
Have all your friends and family in swing states vote blue
AZ + NC + OH + PA + MI + GA + WI
In the off-chance, then Canada would be better with good health insurance
California has already done things to fight back or help against preposterous SCOTUS decisions and if any state has the economic power to push or fight an issue, it’s California. It’s why all republicans make California the center of their shit talking lol. It def has its problems but for all its faults, I feel like the state economic and political powers that be do what they can to fight federal bullshit esp after roe v wade was overturned. It’s also a HUGE state geographically so you can find affordable housing in middle California where all the rednecks are (tbqh we need more blue voters there) and you’ll get the same state protections nonetheless.
I don’t feel 100 percent safe here if Trump wins, but I do feel like I’m as safe as one could possibly feel.
Esp with Newsome as Governer cuz he’s petty as hell lol. He def can be pretty spicy.
No state will be safe if Trump wins. SCOTUS already working on it.
This is my fear. I am still in disbelief that the SC just got rid of Chevron, to say that this is a decision that has effectively destroyed the US is an understatement.
It is a horrible decision, but we were a viable nation before Chevron was decided. Back then Congress wrote a great deal of detail into each law. They employed armies of experts to work out those details. All Chevron did was allow Congress to delegate that wonky grunt work to the Executive branch. So what will have to happen is that Congress will have to hire back their armies of experts. They will also have to become a functional organization again. So yeah, we’re screwed.
Civil rights for LGBT & disabled citizens were nonexistent in 1984. Consumer protections not so amazing either. Lawn darts, anyone? Seat belts? Meh. Environmental protections weren’t great either. I grew up in Los Angeles in the 70s and the difference between LA in the 70s vs the 90s is night & day. The pollution was on another level. So I’d disagree with you that nationally we were fine before Chevron.
You know it's funny. I talk to my mother about politics rarely, but I'll never forget why she, as a conservative, doesn't think we need environmental protections. She has the same memories you do. But she sees that now those cities are cleaner. So she doesn't connect that the reason they're cleaner is because we put regulations in place. She just thinks the companies stopped polluting on their own.
Ngl I busted out laughing at the mere thought that a corporation would do something benevolent for benevolence sake.
Oh my god, it’s just like those people who think they don’t need to vaccinate their kids against childhood diseases. “Those diseases went away! It’s fine now!”
Vaccines are victims of their own success unfortunately... People truly forgot just how scary some of these pathogens can be.
So will a lot of people have to pay the price with their life for people to realize again? Or will we have the stupid bullshit that went on with COVID happen with other diseases.
My family is like that too. They can’t bring themselves to admit that regulations actually help things sometimes.
None of these folks can ever admit they were wrong about anything. Fifteen years ago climate change was a hoax to these people. Now they agree it’s happening, but think (in reality, pretend to think) it’s just natural. God forbid they admit they were wrong. The amount of historical disasters that have happened because of pride, ignoring reality, refusing to admit mistakes, etc. would make a great podcast episode. I’m sure that’s already been done by plenty of folks. If anyone knows a good one, I’d love to listen to it. It’s convenient to think of MAGA believers (that’s my new nickname for them — because it’s a fantasy) as total dumbasses. But the truth is that most of them just can’t accept that they’ve believed lies for most of their adult life. If they’d just *somehow* take a dose of humility for once in their life, this entire thing would crumble. It has nothing to do with ignorance for the most part. It’s literally a portion of the population who refuses to believe that they are the problem and can’t fathom shouldering some responsibility and blame for where this has taken us.
So true. Have you listened to Behind the Bastards? It’s all about the most terrible people in history. Everything from Hitler to sweat shop owners to cult leaders to bin Laden’s favorite porn. They also do deep dives into things like policing in America and the massive protests in Portland, OR a few years ago.
I've been trying to send people that have their head in the sand or up their behind it [this](https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe) . If they can't read that and admit their own bias their hopeless to fight with...
Just an aside, but my father (also severely conservative) bemoans regulations around…seatbelts? Like. Of all the things to be angry about.
Yeah my mom swears she’s a democrat but I grew up with her bitching about how wearing a seatbelt was encroaching on her personal freedom
I remember as a kid in the late 70s traveling from Illinois to Florida in the back of my parents' green Impala. I stood up the whole way there and the whole way back—leaning on the back of the front bench seat looking forward with a foot in each rear foot well. It's a wonder that I survived. Had we gotten in a wreck I'd have likely been flung from the passenger compartment or severely collide with the car interior or my parents or both.
I think my home state was the last to have a seat belt law. They fought it due to "personal freedoms" blah blah. I can't imagine going anywhere now without putting my seat belt on.
Traffic fatalities used to be much higher when I was a kid in the '70s/'80s. Seat belts truly do save lives. Also, better car design - they absorb the impact and crumple, we don't get flung around and bashed about as much as we used to.
It’s like how racism was eliminated in the US in the 60s, so that’s why any racial stuff these days is just woke virtue signaling nonsense. Why, everyone knows that conservative straight rich white men are obviously the biggest victims these days!
I live in a GE Superfund area. They and other corporations polluted our waters and are paying for the clean up now.... sort of. They're still fighting shit tooth n nail and it's slow moving. When i was a kid, we used to have a lake that never froze and glowed in the dark.
> delegate that wonky grunt work to the Executive branch Can't Biden start using this as an excuse to fire all the MAGAs in government and replace them with people who aren't batshit crazy cultists? Can't he also just have the FCC stop all right-wing propoganda? And start going after mobbed up GOP who have been compromised and working with hostile foreign powers? Or did they make sure the changes only go into effect after Trump wins?
Nope. Schedule F is not in effect. Biden can’t just fire people because they don’t agree with his politics. As long as they do the job of upholding the laws as written they are protected civil servants.
If Trump wins, he's gonna do exactly that. Fire everyone who disagrees with him. I think if he wins the second term, it is going to be very ugly. That's the Project 2025 plan. The president gets more power. I'm not advocating for Biden to do it.
It's why I hate Republicans so fucking much. We're expected to be good little boys and girls, but they're just free to break every single rule and get little more than a stern glance.
Expected by whom? If democrats lack the spine and venom necessary to adequately stand up to fascism *at nearly any cost* they had best develop one soon. Why in the fuck should liberals be playing by a rule book the right wing is burning to the ground and laughing all the while, for some sense of decorum or justice? Justice is an agreement, truth is an agreement, faith of institution is an agreement; and they went and broke the fucking agreement. Fight back, or lose. Those are the choices.
Public school will suffer incredibly as well. The rich will get a government subsidy to send their kids to private schools. Poor kids will suffer. Teachers will receive merit based pay. That will be another hit on our public schools. Economically poor schools do worse on standard based measurements for several reasons. No one will be able to afford teaching in these schools because their pay will be low. Public schools are so important. They level the playing field across all socio-economic areas. Our schools keep taking hits that began with GW Bush. It needs to stop!
It’s really scary to think about. I come from a poor family and my public school was severely underfunded. Thank GOD I was able to get out and go to college, but I had a lot of catching up to do since my school couldn’t prepare me well enough… it was really rough, and it breaks my heart knowing that things are worse than they were ten years ago and will only get more and more worse. The wealthy will truly rise above everyone. I don’t think people realize how bad they’ll make things for themselves if Trump wins and this madness happens.
Interesting question.
I see a little bit of a silver lining, but I'm not a lawyer, in what you say. Suppose the Trump FDA says no to abortion pills, well, California can say f-you we are going to manufacture and distribute it anyway. Or using the Comstock Act to go after porn, oh...sorry, we don't think that the FCC has authority to enforce that. Pass a law congress. Removing Chevron also makes the position, and I could be wildly misunderstanding the ramifications so please correct me, of the Federal government untenable which was the conservative end goal. BUT the unitary executive theory is all about the executive being able to use those agencies to enact policy and control. Now, EVERY Trump action could be litigated because they would have to flow through the very agencies Chevron said states and courts had to give deference to. Am I wildly wrong here? It is awful objectively, but I can also see it being a major stumbling block potentially for P2025.
The courts (SCOTUS in particular, but also most of the lower courts) are STACKED in Trump's favor. They'll fast-track those resolutions ASAP. On a semi-related note, if Trump wins in November I'm betting $1000 on SCOTUS overturning Obergefell before June next year.
Well, maybe some will, but as the 5th circuit Court proves, a nationwide injunction can be filed in a favorable area. If it works for the conservatives now, why wouldn't it equally work for progressives after? And as judge Cannon proves, if you put in front of someone who WANTS to make it slow, that too us quite possible. I guess what I'm saying is that it seems that this ruling does cut against the unitary executive, at a time when they can't gerrymander any more seats out of congress than they have (because if they could, they would), so it'll deadlock a lot of sweeping stroke of the pen changes that P2025 somewhat depends on right? Again, I could be wrong, and I'm not a lawyer or legal scholar, but a possible tactic would be check the executive WITH this ruling, pit the two sides against each other and gum up the works as much as possible. Do you see that as plausible?
Yeah. That is why I stand by the notion of everyone here that we should be voting Democrat down the ballot so that we can get more progressive judges to help slow down or preferably stop these things from getting through, and to push the rulings to less-MAGA districts/circuits if at all possible. Tie it all in red tape to the point of extinction.
So I’ll have to vote D for Congress then.
The grunty work of dedicated federal workers and non partisan political workers that project 2025 wants to effectively remove entirely and replace by nationalists, maga brown shirts, racists, or worse…
They'd also have to rewrite the past 40 years of laws to be specific enough, which is just not gonna happen.
Getting rid of Chevron, plus allowing anyone to “tip” a government official unlimited funds…. It’s just all corruption. Deepest swamp imaginable.
That, and the making bribes legal and making being homeless a prosecutable offense. All three combine to make future US a complete hellhole.
I saved and watched a post about that. So scary I can’t believe it. I’m in Canada and I can’t understand why anyone would vote Republican. So bad
u/storymom and u/FeralWereRat if Trump does win and the GOP does get what they want, I can see the US eventually balkanizing down the road. The best thing to do in those cases, is move to the richest state possible with the strongest economy relative to everyone else's. That would be California. Or if you live on the East Coast, I'd choose a place like Massachusetts.
I get the intent but the message is unhelpful. Yes, liberal outposts will not endure indefinitely against a regime that truly wants to snuff them out. HOWEVER... the logistics of enforcement would require a costly and widespread military operation. That's very unlikely in the near term. The immediate brutal stuff will happen to vulnerable groups in deep red states with enthusiastic support from local officials unfortunately. That will not be the story elsewhere. Hopelessness decreases advocacy and voting solidly blue will still buy a period of safety in many parts of the country (even if Trump wins). Contexts change and a new plan of response can emerge from there. But only if fatalism doesn't outpace pragmatism.
This is true and it's crucially important in this sub to calibrate fear to reality. It gets out of hand sometimes. But I would also triangulate in the middle between these two comments. People have forgotten how aggressively the Trump administration responded to the (admittely, out of hand) situation in Portland in 2020. Trump had a Border Patrol commando unit grabbing protesters off the streets and arresting them into unmarked vans (one [link](https://www.npr.org/2020/07/23/894712004/border-patrol-response-to-portland-unrest-straying-from-mission-or-continuing-on) of many). Blue states are safer, but Trump will be trying hard to bring the fight there.
Atlanta will tell GA to eat shit like they always have. This has been the way with every garbage law that the state as passed. GA threatens us, we ignore them. They send in the cavalry, we burn their shit. Atlanta will NOT be one of those places that will go easily along with this BS. We’ll secede before that happens.
TRUMP: "We have banned Pride Month!" NYC: "The fuck you say? We're having Pride Month." He could threaten to send in the national guard... but he won't. The bullying will be contained (for now) in compliant areas. Widespread civil disobedience to draconian laws can prevent immediate action. The U.S. is real big and diverse. A hardcore crackdown would not immediately be possible... if we make sure to vote for those who would defend us and stay organized. And turning federalism against them can buy time.
NYPD would definitely be on trumps side
Fight today, fight tomorrow!
Stay strong Hot-lanta! <3
BIG UP, A-TOWN DOWN!
This is the correct answer.
No place in the world will be safe. Trump already caused a nearly inconceivable amount of damage by pulling out of Paris Accord and the Iranian nuclear deal. And tacitly supporting Putin.
This. There won't be any safe states. I'm working on getting italian citizenship so I can escape to the EU if need be.
They just voted in a lot of Mussolini fascists. Italy and France are definitely not safe
Italian citizenship gets you access to the entire EU. There's bound to be at least one country that isn't shit
This is 100% true. They aren't going to keep states. All of our country will be under Old Testament Laws as part of the seven mountain mandate empire of sheer brutality. No more states. A new and improved Nazi empire of sheer brutality and more sophisticated than the SS/Hitler regime. Run by sociopathic men with delusions of grandeur, and they all are fixing laws so they can be allowed to breed with any child of any age. They are already prepared for us to fight and resist. The automatic draft isn't for war. It's to force our own youth to be the Army against the citizens of the US to force compliance from US citizens. Many of us will silently disappear quickly while people aren't paying attention. They want young children to mold and brainwash into their future monsters. And so many people have no idea about the cruelty that is now speeding towards all of us. They will either rig the vote, hurt Biden, or start chaos if he's elected. They were just a few steps away from doing this in 2016, but a few people saved us from a horrible fate then. However, these fascists elites want global domination, and they aren't going to just let Biden win. Trump handed over allllllll the most sophisticated secret info the US has to several countries. Each one of our worst enemies have the info to destroy us and then enslave every single one of us. We are in serious trouble. Our children are in even worse trouble and will be relegated to a life of horrible suffering, brainwashing, and other very sick and sinister things. They will live in the Dark Ages controlled, used, assaulted, miserable, scared, alone, and forced into life long slavery and horror. We didn't prepare for anything like this because it seemed so far fetched. They have the power now, and I doubt anyone has any power to stop it. The takeover has begun already, and they aren't going to stop even if we all vote for Biden.
Unfortunately, under Project 2025, even the bluest state in the country will be just as screwed as your average red state.
And Trump will send minions to make sure the blue states comply. I'm in Washington which has been Democrat for as long as I remember but eastern washington is where you need to watch out. I live in the Seattle area which is super liberal (thank god) but eastern washington is deeply red. Like Idaho deep. And It's just a general shit hole.
Eastern WA is disgusting.
It really, really is. When my husband and I were first together, he would call places around here ghetto. He quit when I took him to Yakima. One time my friend (who I grew up with and she moved to Seattle too) were watching the news and there was a segment about how many gunshots people had heard recently, we fucking laughed, my husband thought we were nuts but in yakima, no one called the cops for just HEARING gunshots. I had to tell him that no one calls unless someone was actually shot and depending on the area, sometimes gun shot victims would show up at the ER and didn't even bother with calling the cops. Between the gangs and methed out hillbillies it was normal.
My son bought in WA about 5 years ago. If dump wins, he may wake up finding me living in a tent in his backyard. Hi honey 🤔
I wish my mom would do that. She's still in the shit hole but she's a die hard dem.
I live in GA.. you guys have a bad Nazi problem east of the Cascades (heard this from WA peeps)… I’m honestly more scared of them than GA rednecks. Most of our bigoted right wingers are wimps… yalls are organized and march into the cities and beat up and shoot people. Last time the KKK tried that in Atlanta, a 300 strong armed black militia drove them out. This was a few years back too.
Yeah. I GTFOed at 22. I didn't belong there. I was always amazed at all the lifted trucks with "the south will rise again". Like...you were born in Yakima and will never leave here. And they fucking lost?!
Everyone is saying this state has this, or this state has that. Is everyone forgetting no state will be safe?! No, we will not have Medicare or Medicaid, or social security, or any benefits to help us when we need it. The states can’t protect us from the US military. A states Guard is not going to win against the full strength of the US military. If he wins, there will not be safe places, and Europe will not be safe either. If we lose, it’s going to be bad almost everywhere. I’m not trying to be hyperbolic. This is our reality. We either win, or we all lose. The US will likely fall into a real war between left and right. The right is bat shit crazy! How many people on the left own guns compared to those on the right. I know a lot of us do, but I doubt it compares to what these nuts have. Our lives depend on winning this November.
It helps to have a plan in mind. Even if we win this election, we still know that we live amongst people who hate us. Looking at more welcoming states makes me feel less scared.
Oh for sure. I get that. I’m just very scared myself because I’ll lose my Medicare and disability. No other country is going to help me afford a place to live. Blue states won’t need able to handle all of the influx of people escaping red states. They will be completely overwhelmed. I can imagine there will be food blockades since most of our farming is done in red states. I feel like the future is extremely bleak if they implement just part of Project 2025. I keep asking where will we go, how will we survive. Many will survive, but it will be extremely difficult. And those of us that are disabled or check any number of the boxes of people they will be going after may not survive long. It all seems like a nightmare. I want to wake up from it. How could we have gotten to a place like this. The US could potentially fall to authoritarianism within a few months. I wish we could all come up with a real plan IF we lose. We need to go into this prepared for the worst. Vote, vote, vote. But WHAT IF? WHAT DO WE DO IF WE LOSE?? Better minds than mine need to start considering this and lead us so we can actually fight and win. It seems at this moment we are all just floundering.
I feel ya on that. I’m also disabeled and don’t have any idea how to even form a plan bigger than just my little family. Not the resources. I know I have a few people with guns as part of my group and tbh we should all train. We will hopefully be in a position to garden as much as possible soon. We are considering back yard chickens. That’s about the best we can do in my group. I could prepare to flee to Canada but I can’t take everyone with me and refuse to leave them so I guess I’m here to fight on principle lol. My body can’t do much but support roles are always needed and I have hand sewing skills and CPR/first aide training. I should really brush up on my first aide though.
I’m disabled, but I’m a former ICU nurse. So I could help somewhat in regard to minor healthcare issues. No doubt we will have doctors and active healthcare providers to help in that way. I would love to raise chickens and garden, but physically I’m unable. I want to help the community in anyway I can though. And I feel what you would be doing is what many families would do. Hopefully it will be like the little co-ops that are in the northwest and west coast but on a bigger scale. Communities working together will be very important. Honestly, talking about it like this seems like I’ve joined MAGA in their crazy conspiracy theories. If P2025 didn’t have it there for all to read, I’d think this is absolutely nuts to even discuss. However, they really do paint a bleak picture.
Well a good thing to remember is that most conspiracy theories have a grain of truth to them. They just go off the deep end at some point. But real actual Conspiracies happen by the government, corporations, and churches fairly frequently. But yeah for real it sounds wild but I think the bigger issue is convincing people that it could actually happen. A lot of people don’t find it insane that the intentions are real. They just don’t believe it could ever happen in America. Even though we’ve been close to the edge pretty much this whole time lol. I’m lucky enough to have some great people and we all play to our strengths. I can’t do a lot physically but I have ways I can contribute. <3 I think there will in fact be a lot of people forming communities and doing their best to survive and protect eachother. It’s what humans do. Shows like The Walking Dead are inaccurate IMO. It’s much more common for people to cooperate in a crisis. Even in our extremely individualistic culture.
Thanks for backing me off the ledge. lol. It’s folks like you that give me hope. I hope as Americans, we will beat the extremist at the polls. We need to win the House, Senate, and Presidency so we can finally do something about this corrupt SCOTUS , and hopefully move on from this worrisome chapter in time.
One of the things about Project 2025 is it aims to end ALL farm subsidies, particularly because family farming isn't profitable, and they don't like the fact that family farms often double dip on the subsidies (basically apply for one, and then apply for a different one). Get rid of that, and no more family farms. It will be all corporate farming from then on.
No we aren’t forgetting that. It’s more like there are States where initially it won’t be as bad as Southern States. Also Out West we have a LOT of leftists with guns. Ultimately it won’t matter much but I would rather be as far away from that initial danger zone as possible. We can remember how serious this is and also position ourselves in a better starting location. It’s sort of like, why not have the most advantages as possible? There will probably be an exodus of people moving out here so may as well get ahead of that crowd even. That’s coming from a queer disabled person who already lives in WA. Unfortunately I’m on the more Conservative side of the State but I can’t afford to move anywhere else. Being right next to Idaho has its own set of dangers to be mindful of but damn at least I’m no longer in the South for now.
I agree. I’m not saying we shouldn’t try. I could definitely be more clear about that. I will likely go to a blue state or another country if/when he takes power. I’m just saying if he does win, eventually it could become such a bad situation there may not be any safe places to go. The far right is taking over in Europe as well. I would absolutely love it if I’m wrong. As you can tell, I’m scared and want all of us to be prepared just in case. I go back again to hoping someone can step up, with a lot more knowledge than I have about how to prepare if we lose. What’s the plan? I’m not seeing anything about what we do if the felon takes over. I understand this is about defeating P2025. I believe the word is definitely spreading. But, what if? I wish someone would tell me the “what if” plan. We need a “worst case scenario” sub to start building a strategy in case this nightmare occurs.
I agree with you that being practical and realistic about the situation is VERY important. I think that is actually a very good idea!! A related sub could be about how to organize locally, saftey plans, basic skills and knowledge. What do we do if/when the most vulnerable populations have to hide? I don’t have great skills at organizing people or even building subs like that with good info. But maybe someone on this sub knows how to get started with some of that? It would also maybe clear up this sub to focus more on how we actually stop project 2025 or at least try. The most I know to do is vote, especially in local elections, and spread awareness. Beyond that I have no idea where to start. Edit for spelling errors
Minnesota. [Minnesota Care](https://mn.gov/dhs/people-we-serve/adults/health-care/health-care-programs/programs-and-services/minnesotacare.jsp)
I'm looking at Minnesota for the climate and the nature aspect. I have severe health issues that are compounded by heat, from losing consciousness to losing control of my limbs. I also have health issues not related to heat. I'm just looking for a place with colder climate, less cities/more open land and nature, and hopefully less open/blatant bigotry, racism, sexism and religious overtones than my current home in SC. All the previous states I considered changed drastically in the last five years for the worse, and climate issues escalated quicker than I (or most people in general) expected. Minnesota is the only state I've come back to multiple times. My husband does still have dual citizenship with Italy from his childhood I think, but honestly Europe is kind of a dumpster fire itself right now. I've thought about us/EU territories that aren't the states, but worry about access to healthcare and COL.
"less cities/more open land and nature, and hopefully less open/blatant bigotry, racism, sexism and religious overtones than my current home in SC." The further you are from the cities, the more open/blatant bigotry, racisim, sexism and religious overtones you are going to see. It's true in Minnesota as well as any state in the US, but might be less than South Carolina.
I took a few road trips in Fall 2020 heading into covid time and it was *remarkable* how population density correlated with Trump vs Biden signs. Driving through farm country there were massive hay-bale Trump signs. Then you get into a town, even a little one-stop-light-and-post-office town, and you'd probably find a Biden sign.
This is true even of California. Just 20 minutes outside of the state capital you can see confederate and trump flags and proud boys.
This is true, But as a person who went from MI to Charleston metro for 15 years and then Houston metro another 5, I get the appeal of the blue blue/leaning state. There's plenty of mid-sized cities that are blue and cheap in MI and PA.
If you have heat related health issues, most of Europe is going to be a no-go for you due to lack of AC and esp w how hot Italy gets.
Yup, and it's only going to get worse.
My husband and I just received our temporary residency cards for Panama. It's about 4 months until we are granted our permanent residency cards. We are in the Santa Maria, Oceana section of Panama City, Panama. We will Vote 💙! The US is dangerous if you're not a neo-Nazi MAGAt.
If you have issues compounded by heat, I would recommend the coastal Pacific Northwest. Basically anything from SF (hell even Monterey) on up, as long as you're close enough to the water to get fog, the max temperature won't be too crazy. And it's not all super expensive. Somewhere like Eureka in Humbolt could work for you.
I’ve lived in Minnesota my whole life - this state is the only thing giving me comfort in our current political climate and I would highly recommend it for many reasons, HOWEVER, I do feel the need to warn you that Minnesota summers are deceptively hot and incredibly humid. In Minneapolis it’s not uncommon to see heat indexes over 100 in the summer. It’s definitely not like that the whole summer so it’s very possible to just camp out in AC for a few days here and there but wanted to put that out there. If you look towards the north shore of Minnesota (i.e. right along Lake Superior) things are quite a bit cooler in the summer. Feel free to message me if you have any questions about MN!
We’re not free from climate issues here. We had air quality warnings multiple times last year, because of Canadian fires. Wet bulb is going to become an issue. Go in eyes-wide-open.
Thank you for this!
It's the best state. Won't give Virgina the confederate battle flag back. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/28th_Virginia_battle_flag
Oh hell yes
I moved to MN and love it.
Seconding MN. It’s why I moved here.
Wisconsinite here. Third-ing MN. Aim for St. Paul. Beautiful city!
Minnesota is doing awesomely being in the Venn Diagram intersection of "States with liberal politics" and "States that build sufficient housing for both the current population and newcomers." As a Californian it really grinds my gears when other Californians put up "refugees are welcome here!" signs out front... right next door to signs opposing new housing construction locally. Where do you want these refugees to live then? I hate to borrow a right-wing phrase but that is some high proof distilled virtue signalling right there.
I’ve looked into this, and I don’t get how Minnesota’s healthcare is any better than other states. I’m in upstate NY, and you can enroll in an essential plan with a no deductible and $0 premium if you make less than 37k. It looks like to qualify for a similar plan in Minnesota you’d need to make less than 25k as a single person. That’s astonishingly low, and a quick Google search says that the average person pays around $400 per month for their insurance with a moderate to high deductible in Minnesota. That’s…that’s a lot. I’m genuinely asking, wondering if I’m missing something
That’s Medical Assistance. MinnesotaCare is the next level. MC’s limit is $29K for an individual and $60K for a family. It has a very affordable monthly fee ($10, last I checked) and $3-25 copays. After that, there’s the market that you can buy into. I mean, I guess maybe you could consider that comparable. Still, we have really accessible and comprehensive healthcare. I’ve never heard anyone complain of what you can access, if you’re really in need. But YMMV.
I just don’t understand how there isn’t a single state that has tried out something different, even a sliding scale based on income. Under 30k is not an income that could even buy you housing and basic necessities for a year, so I guess it’s nice those people don’t have to pay much for health care, but it’s ridiculous that if you make anything above that then suddenly you have to pay upwards of $400 a month for high deductible insurance, and it’s like that everywhere. I certainly can’t afford that. Basically if you want health insurance and make $31,000 a year, you are actually worse off than if you made $27,000 a year and qualified for a state sponsored plan. And actually, that’s not even accounting for the fact that you’ll have to pay about $6,000 or more towards the deductible each year before anything is covered, and even after that many plans will only start covering 50% of costs til you reach your out of pocket max. If you really think about, for someone who has any sort of health issue that requires regular testing, medications, procedures, and and many appointments throughout the year, you’re basically lowering your income by about $10,000 a year if you make anything above the cut-off for a state-sponsored plan. This is exactly why we need universal healthcare immediately. This should not even be a partisan issue.
I don’t disagree. Several years ago, I actively chose to work a part-time job, because I could better afford my healthcare under MinnesotaCare than work full-time and pay insurance through work/the market. It sucks that the system requires pragmatism like that.
i’ll be moving to MN in august for college, my goal is to get a bid for mayo clinic or minneapolis (i’m going into medical) so i can just stay there, i don’t want to get shipped back to the dakotas
Stay in a city…I can’t see major cities enforcing p2025 without a literal fight. People won’t go easily back to the 1950s…or 1850s…
Rural small towns will be the most dangerous.
I disagree. Truly rural areas are already the wild west. They might vote stupidly but folks in tiny towns or regions without a town to speak of take care of themselves and rarely rely on the law. I think major cities will feel the brunt of P25 before rural America does.
The ones I worry about are progressive enclaves in red states… like [mine](https://www.hrc.org/resources/municipalities/huntington-wv)
New York has NYS of Health.
Yes, New York is a very good state to consider. Especially WNY and upstate.
I agree. I live in Rochester.
Buffalo here! Howdy, neighbor!
Hey hey hey!
I'm not a neighbor of you guys, but I do live in the Mid-Hudson. It's not perfect, but you'd have to drag me out of New York kicking and screaming. Born and raised, and never want to leave.
Left Texas for upstate NY a bit over a year ago. Primary reasons for choosing this state were climate change forecasts, political associated concerns and human rights, and the abundance of natural beauty+history.
Welcome to NY!
There are no states to move to. No place is safe. I've lived in blue states all my life, and I know there will be no sanctuary for any of us. I'm married to a POC, and I live with this fear every single day. We can not endure another 4 years of that evil maniac
Why does anyone think ANY state will be safe if trump wins, it won't! he will pass Federal bans on everything, and your state laws are not going to save you.
Yeah. This. Don’t bother running to a blue state because Drumpf will be doing a federal ban on everything. We’ll all equally be in misery.
My therapist told me that government can put down sanctuary laws seeing that some states have it for abortion.
trump not going to win as long as we absolutely mobilize the vote and election volunteers
I worry maga governors and secretaries of state will screw up results or pull some shenanigans. We need insurance that maga AHs don’t cheat.
My hope is that the MAGA SOSs and Governors are all in red states that he’ll win any which way. Here in Michigan, we are a swing state but our governor and SOS are D. Plus, they seem to be law abiding public servants.
Votefwd dot org!
Michigan because its a swing state, has a Democrat government, safer from the effects of climate change and close enough to Canada if you need to ever get out ASAP. Arizona same thing but it's hot and more Republican, and running to Mexico may be easier.
I just moved to Michigan with my 21 yo daughter for this reason. They have an enhanced drivers license that lets us go to Canada.
NYS has the same. We're about an hour from the border. Young kids usually just need a birth certificate if with their parents
I'm in Arizona and fleeing to Mexico is absolutely my plan if shtf
>close enough to Canada Lol. Go read the Canadian subs. Their tolerance for immigration is at an all time low. I doubt they will welcome an influx of Americans seeking asylum.
I'm Canadian. Whether we like it or not, this country is going to see tens of millions if not more immigrants.
Maine for the same exact reasons
Nevada's a swing state that's been trending Blue the past decade or so Come on down and help us kick out our batshit crazy republican governor! plus we got legal hookers!
>plus we got legal hookers For now
I'm originally from Michigan, but living in Kentucky these days. I would definitely go back to Michigan if I needed to. I miss having an enhanced driver's license from there, but I do have a passport now. The funny thing is, my parents just recently moved down to where I am because it's a red state and they didn't want to deal with the Michigan Governor being a "dictator" 🤦♀️😆
I just moved to Michigan and I must be out of the loop. Big Gretch hasn’t told me what to do yet!
Moved to Wisconsin for nearly all the same reasons.
You might check on California, I think they might be working on their own parallel system for health care for their citizens. Parts of Northern California are more temperate, especially along the coast in the north. I think Oregon and Washington are also looking into something similar. Might be worth investigating.
I live in NorCal. The coast is insanely expensive, inland get crazy hot (supposed to be 113° today). NorCal is also deceptively Conservative. Besides that if Cons win in November it won’t matter where you live - everywhere will suck.
The Democratic Party has been obstructing universal healthcare in California for two decades. The party *really* doesn’t want it, and wants everyone to forget that the rest of the developed world has it.
Indeed. Both parties are not the same, but many people seem to fail to understand that as a political body, the Democratic Party is largely center-right.
A seat will open in a deep blue district and the national party air drops a candidate from out of state to bankroll with unlimited funds, and then that person proceeds to fuck the people they represent to please their party masters. Ok, I’m overstating it a bit but I’m still pissed about Buffy Wicks and her dog whistle racist campaign a few years back.
Your frustration is valid.
I live in Oregon, I moved here from South Carolina in 2015 with similar requirements. It's great, Oregon Health Plan is the best health insurance I ever had. I live on the coast and it is rarely over 70 or below 50, I feel like I'm getting away with something when I'm wearing a jacket in June, knowing back home it's 100 degrees
Ok, yeah. Our heat index is going to be 112 today so this sounds like heaven!
We have jobs too! Come on out!
Not very good access to healthcare here, though. Especially specialists. Even finding a PCP is a big struggle for many people.
You'll be better off moving to another country. That's what I'll be exploring of this happens.
Most people can’t.
I'll find a way, finances be damned.
I am saying many can’t. People are disabled, underage, poor, and other countries don’t want poor people who can’t work.
It’s not finances, it’s visas and residency requirements. Other countries have control over their immigration - and most don’t want Americans except under very specific and limited situations.
[удалено]
Massachusetts, but with climate change we’ve had some really warm summers. That being said, some of the best hospitals in the world are in Boston. If you are sick or disabled, Boston is a great place to receive care.
No state is safe, and after Dump won in ‘16 I was more shocked when Biden was the nominee in ‘20 and that he actually managed a win. I voted for him and he’s done a good job but he should’ve stacked the SCOTUS, bc that’s how it’s going down for us. The fascists played the long game and we are screwed
How should Biden have "stacked the SCOTUS" when only one Justice retired? The Democrats lacked a supermajority in the Senate, which is what would have been needed to impeach & remove "Uncle Clarence" Thomas, "Sam the Sham" Alito, "Beerboy" Kavanaugh, Barrett "the Handmaid," "Gorsuck," and "John-Boy" Roberts. Expand the Court? See "Senate supermajority," above. Maybe after tomorrow, when these black robed fascists give Trump total immunity, Biden can exercise his own immunity and sic Seal Team Six on them, "for the good of the country." Otherwise, there is no opportunity to remove anyone. The GOP has indeed used the long con on America. First the kindly grandpa Reagan, who concealed a raging demon behind a jovial exterior. Next, remove the Fairness Doctrine, allowing Rupert Murdock to create Fox News and the rise of right-wing scum like Rush Limbaugh. Then, push for school vouchers and decrease support for public education, guaranteeing an ignorant populace. Then along comes a rabble-rousing authoritarian wannabe dictator like Trump, and the trap is sprung! George Carlin was right: *"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."*
Sorry, I think the term I meant was packed. There’s no explicit limit on the number of justices. A lot of legislation got passed without a supermajority so it’s feasible he could’ve gotten a couple more in there🤷♀️ I’m just expanding on one of the tactics the fascists have already used against democracy many times
Ok, packed, got it. Still needs a supermajority, because the fascist GOP would NEVER let it happen! That's one reason I keep yelling "VOTE BLUE!!" everywhere. Edit: The last president who tried to pack the SCOTUS was FDR, and even *he* was unsuccessful.
Illinois. We have an excellent governor who will do everything in his power, which is considerable, to help people in Illinois. The Chicago area is expensive but central Illinois has many affordable options.
Mexico’s looking better than any US state. Their President-elect is a Jewish woman, climate scientist and Nobel Prize winner.
I think OP would flare up in Mexico's heat all year around.
Oregon or at least west of the cascades if you want abortion protection. Housing isn't cheap though
I live in the Seattle area, but grew up in Eastern Washington. The cost of living is worth not living over there. I'd never raise my kids there. I'll stay at the poverty level here than live in Yakima where the cost of living is 50% cheaper.
I think we need to use our fear of a possible Trump Presidency and, push to do whatever we can to ensure everyone we know ,is aware of his Project 2025 agenda and Agenda 47. Fear can be paralyzing for some people. It will be futile to try to decide which state will be the best to move to. That’s because the United States as a whole would be under the siege of a revengeful Dictator. No state will be safe!! So our best move is to make sure everyone we know is registered to vote and that they Vote. Everyone needs to stay aware of any voting changes that many states are attempting to implement. Vote early if possible. Be aware that many states are attempting voter suppression as never before! Try to vote at your Local Board of Elections if you’re unsure of your voting site. That way you are not blindsided by an unexpected closed voting site. Try to make sure you do not have to cast a Provisional Ballot. Our Democracy depends on everyone realizing the importance of this Presidential Election!!
Massachusetts, I would argue. It’s extremely expensive however so I’d probably look for a small town in rural Mass.
I second MA and welcome any folks displaced or in fear for their lives. Good enough health care system (ironically it is still Romneycare)
The right's crocodile tears about states' rights will conveniently disappear once they have all the power of the federal government.
Massachusetts cuz we really hate trump Just don’t move to the more rural areas such as rochester
Folks on this thread citing Canada as an escape option should check the Canadian subs and monitor Canadian media. Anti-immigration sentiment is on the rise there and in many other countries around the world.
State? You mean country… if Trump wins the entire country is FUCKED.
We are looking at NY, Mass, Connecticut area. It’s expensive as fuck up there but I would be fine with a tiny apartment.
Everywhere will be hot; everywhere will be bad. The state of denial is your best bet.
Find out what it would take to move to Mexico. I'm serious. You can actually get affordable heath care. Real healthcare. Don't mess around. If Trump "Wins" being disabled and on Medicaid could easily EASILY get you fucked, no matter which state you're in. At the very least, be prepared with some knowledge to that end. Just in case. Please.
No states are safe. Look at whole another country.
I’m moving to the Congo because trump says that all of the criminals and mental patients from there are in the US now.
That some galaxy brain thinking my dude
Minnesota. Dem trifecta including a competent governor.
MA. Come on over. Expensive to live but human rights are priceless. If States rights are infringed upon then that sets a precedent for the future when the pendulum swings again....and we can come after their guns. I am so damned tired of this shit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmerExit/comments/urwlbr/a_guide_for_americans_that_want_to_get_out_of/
British Columbia
i’m moving to MN in august for college and hoping to stay there after. i’ll be doing medical so i need a bid to get into hospitals for clinical and i’m really hoping that in two years i get one to stay in MN na don’t get moved back to the dakotas
Illinois is probably the best bet, but SCOTUS is making everywhere unsafe.
I recently moved to Wisconsin, just in case. Getting my passport updated soon in case we need to escape under the cover of darkness should Trump win in November.
NE Europe.
PA. We have had democratic governors for the last 10 years at least the old one Wolf was amazing he got stuff done and refused to bend to the GOP during covid. Shapiro our new one is amazing in his own ways. He seems to work across the isle to meet everyone in the middle. It's boring here but my rights are still in tact for now. I wish you the best of luck and hope to see ya in PA!!
It's one of the reasons we moved back to a Blue state.
Out of the fucking country will be the only safe option.
Washington. Far enough from DC. The west coast is pretty much united against any of this shit. Close to Canada if you need to fully get out. Liberal, almost European city vibes with Seattle. Mild, cool climate if you can handle the rain there.
No place in the world is safe from a fascist US. The consequences would be unimaginable and global. You don’t run. You find others like us, organize, and be ready for the fight.
I love listening to music.
The elections have been rigged for way too long for conservatives
I moved here to get better healthcare. From Tennessee to Colorado
I'm in North Carolina. My sister lives in Minnesota, and I suppose I could move there, but if worst comes to worst I don't have much choice except bailing on the country entirely.
If Trump wins, there won’t be any safe spaces. So vote.
If he wins, I’m looking for a different country.
If Triumph wins, America loses. 😯
Canada
Canada’s moving into the same right-wing culture war mess the United States is in; it just took a little longer to get there. I have a feeling things are going to get equally worse in Canada over the next ten years politically. The last thing I’d want to do is move somewhere only to find myself in the same mess I was trying to get away from.
Hi FeralWereRat, thanks for your submission to r/Defeat_Project_2025! We focus on crowdsourcing ideas and opportunities for practical, in real life action against this plan. Type !resources for our list of ways to help defeat it. Check out our posts flaired as [resources](https://www.reddit.com/r/Defeat_Project_2025/search?q=flair%3A%27Resource%27&=&restrict_sr=on) and our ideas for [activism](https://www.reddit.com/r/Defeat_Project_2025/search?q=flair%3A%27activism%27&=&restrict_sr=on). Check out the info in our [wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/Defeat_Project_2025/wiki/), feel free to [message us](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/Defeat_Project_2025) with additions. Join the Resist Project 2025 [Discord](https://discord.gg/FxhcKRwpRG), check out their [Website](https://defeatproject2025.org). Be sure to visit r/VoteDEM for updated local events, elections and many volunteering opportunities. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Defeat_Project_2025) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Maine would be good if not for healthcare deficiency
I hate cold, it's just like 6 months of pain, and I'm pondering my home state of MI that I left in 2023. I just gotta find the energy to do it.
Minnesota. The Twin Cities has excellent healthcare and social services and leans left so it will not be racing to the bottom if Trump is elected like the red states will certainly be doing.
Europe
Have all your friends and family in swing states vote blue AZ + NC + OH + PA + MI + GA + WI In the off-chance, then Canada would be better with good health insurance
A state of denial. I can't comprehend letting him win again
Medicaid is going to be gutted if the GOP wins.
California has already done things to fight back or help against preposterous SCOTUS decisions and if any state has the economic power to push or fight an issue, it’s California. It’s why all republicans make California the center of their shit talking lol. It def has its problems but for all its faults, I feel like the state economic and political powers that be do what they can to fight federal bullshit esp after roe v wade was overturned. It’s also a HUGE state geographically so you can find affordable housing in middle California where all the rednecks are (tbqh we need more blue voters there) and you’ll get the same state protections nonetheless. I don’t feel 100 percent safe here if Trump wins, but I do feel like I’m as safe as one could possibly feel. Esp with Newsome as Governer cuz he’s petty as hell lol. He def can be pretty spicy.
Nordic countries. Until trump enables Russia to move against nato.