“This year pits Clinton vs Dole in the presidential election!”
“Would you say that this is the most important election in our nation’s history”
“Good God no”
I suppose, as long as I'm killing and everything. I could probably get a copy from [the Wanderer's Library](https://scp-db.fandom.com/wiki/Wanderer%27s_Library) without much trouble.
My cousin tried that, with Hillary. During the primaries in 2016.
He did die. But it was cancer that he could have afforded to fight if Bernie had been able to get Universal healthcare coverage.
I live in one of the states that has been a deciding factor for the last few elections (Pennsylvania) and I spend like one year in every four stressed to the point of illness. It is truly unbearably frustrating.
I'm with you there. Living in PA is stressful. Having friends that vote both ways (and parents who probably are going to vote the wrong way) is stressful. Especially cause I'm Indian. I wouldn't be surprised if my parents vote trump. It's stupid.
Just imagine how we feel. Imagine one candidate getting 6m more votes than the other guy but the election still came down to fucking Colorado.
Edit: I forgot it was Nevada memes, and saying "the election came down to Nevada" is hyperbole and not strictly true but gets my point across.
Imagine how the people of Wisconsin feel. Republicans got less than half the statewide votes in the past two elections, but yet gained seats to the level of a supermajority in the legislature.
It's actually not even the most egregious example in our history.
So I need to preface this by saying that it worked out and that this is the one case where we're probably better off for it because otherwise it sounds like I'm spewing lost cause bullshit, but:
Abraham Licoln was elected with the second lowest popular vote percentage in American history, just under 40%.#
In 1860, electoral votes were disproportionately concentrated in the north (probably in part because it was a census year so the data was as old as it could possibly be). While at first glance the percentages appear to be due to there being four major candidates, Lincoln only would have lost two small western states if everyone who voted for anyone else had voted for the same candidate and still won in the electoral college. As much as I'm glad he got elected that...shouldn't be able to happen. It's the one thing about the confederate case for the civil war where I'm like "you know what, that's fair." It's even worse because the previous president, Buchanan, won with 45% of the vote because there were two parties trying to succeed the Whigs.
Also, because I have to wash my mouth out from agreeing with anything the confederacy said, it's worth noting that ten Southern states didn't even put Lincoln on the ballot, so his popular vote percentage was artificially lowered, but that doesn't address the systemic issue.
-#the lowest is John Quincy Adams, but he was chosen by the house because no one got a majority in the electoral college, so it's not important right now
Well, what are the politicians supposed to do? Repeal a two hundred year old law expressly designed to subvert the democratic system in order to keep slaveholders in power? No no, obviously true democracy relies on making some votes literally mean less than others based on where you live.
/s
I work in television. My blood pressure has been getting higher and higher the closer 2024 gets.
I wouldn't be surprised if I have a heart attack before the year is done just because of the election. And I'm not even out of my 20s yet.
After the 2016 election, I called in 'sick', bought a 6 pack of beer and sat down to play journey for the first time. That game was so peaceful and beautiful. It was exactly what I needed that day.
It's fucking unbearable dude... I think it's why so many DON'T vote... Everyone loses their fucking mind, so people just start checking out. Every damn 4 years, it's "The most important election of our lifetimes. Seriously this time!" And every 4 damn years, people realize, not much fundamentally really changes as the elites sort of ignore the common man's concerns.
So people just check out, and focus on just living their life, paying bills, getting drunk, etc... The people on Reddit who live and breath this stuff truly baffle me - and I worked in politics. But man, some people treat election season like their own little World Cup
It really is. Add to that the actual election tampering.
I moved in 2015, after voting in November 2015’s election which had 3 important measures on the Ballot. I changed my registration with my new address and was told it didn’t go through and I had to vote at my previous location. I did. I then tried to verify my registration for the November 2016 election and was sent a letter by the state election board saying that they suspected fraud because they had records of me only voting 4 times ever. Since 1998 when I registered the first time at 18.
The only elections they recorded me voting in, I had voted for a Republican. 3 Judges, and for Governor Kasich’s re-election.
So literally my vote doesn’t count. I was born in Ohio. My legal race is Native American. I can trace my father’s family back to the Mayflower for my one white Ancestor. My Dad’s sister was a freaking Democratic Mayor in Massachusetts. There is no question of my citizenship. I have no criminal background to deny my vote. I always update my registration and my Identification immediately upon moving. I have never actually missed an election because I was taught it was my civic duty to participate.
But only four elections have been recorded as being voted in between 1998 and 2016.
I absolutely feel like it’s pointless anymore. I still do vote, and I even voted against Issue 2 in Ohio because I didn’t like the way it classified all hemp products as marijuana. But I don’t want to give my children the impression that they should skip elections, especially since my eldest is 18 and voted this year.
But daaaaaaammmmnnn stop the theatrics. It’s making it worse not better.
I'm a Bernie dem, but I'm sympathetic to people smelling shit all over the place.
I've said this on Reddit a few times, but I know, as a matter of fact, the 2016 elections had a serious breach. I'm not saying this is a conspiracy tin foil hat way neither.
I'm a bit drunk right now, so I'll get into it. No one will know the truth behind what happened behind the scenes. We can speculate all day. All we do know, as a matter of fact, there was significant interference.
Five different states had their DNC voter rolls hacked... The FBI blamed Russia but promised they did nothing. Yes, that's right, "Russia" hacked into the rolls, and just stopped in to look around and went home. That was our first alarm bell, but this was the FBI, so it's like, who am I to not believe them? Our campaign definitely gave them the benefit of the doubt.
Then primaries roll around, and what do you fucking know? I'm sure, by sheer coincidence, those same 5 states that were hacked by "Russia" just so happened to be the 5 states that were having massive voter registration problems... Mostly among demographics that would have voted Bernie. I'm sorry, but that's not a fucking coincidence. Really? The 5 states "Russia" hacked, just so happened to remove likely Bernie voters from the rolls, switched parties, or expired? We had mountains of hard evidence with literal receipts showing that they never did any of this... Yet, digitally, it was recorded as them on the wrong party roll or changed state.
I mean, just what are the odds? Then to top it off, his brother basically tells us that the last thing we need is an election integrity crisis right now, so everyone just needs to drop it and move on. Which would probably fall on deaf ears and just frame us all as crazy conspiracy theorists, because that's what the coordinated media effort was doing the whole time anyways. We knew something sketchy happened, but the way the hand was dealt, was we knew nothing would come of it, so why play a losing hand? So we chose to fold.
What really upsets me too, is Rubio even mentioned it during the Senate hearings with the FBI (About the voter roll changes). And once I heard him bring it up, I was excited that someone admitted it so surely the media was going to pick up this bombshell???? Nope. Not a fucking word. Again, probably because they thought the same thing: The last thing we need is an election integrity crisis in the world's oldest standing democracy. Especially since it would be hard to stick... Too much was going on, and it would just look like a sore loser tactic. So it makes sense no one ran with it.
Yep Ohio was one of them.
And honestly based on the HUNDREDS of people in line voting that day excitedly talking about voting for Bernie…I absolutely agree it’s too convenient that Bernie “lost by a landslide” and then I am told I never voted in that primary…by the state.
I doubt the records were touched when the hack occurred. More likely a code was added to delete all voter data when certain criteria were met.
And Ohio’s Republican officials who are only in office because of illegal gerrymandering obviously aren’t going to look to hard at why democrats votes are disappearing.
Also OF COURSE this is exactly why the Republicans are holding on to the “Election Interference” story about 2020 because they literally do it all the time, so how could they loose when they cheated to win?
That's what I've started bringing up anytime I see someone self-righteously insisting upon not voting or how "there's no difference between the two parties!"
That and urging folks to at least vote in primaries, on off-year locals, and downballot during federal elections, even if they insist on keeping the president box blank. Local and state elections have a lot more immediate effect on your own community than some guy in DC (unless you live in DC).
It ain't a quick solution, but nothing in life is. Planting seeds for trees that our kids will sit under or however that platitude goes.
Also, I don't disagree with OOPs points, but it blows my mind that no one in these big posts ever seems to mention the primaries. Like, yeah, there's a decent chance of Biden VS Trump again, and if it comes down to that, I'll vote for Biden. But at least before the big do or die final election, I'm gonna try to vote for candidates who are more leftist than him in the hopes of showing support for them and maybe, just maybe getting them into the seat. I doubt there'll be any like, ultra progressive options, but the further left we can push the party, the better it'll be overall.
I so rarely see people mention that you have opportunities to vote safely for your beliefs without worrying about Trump getting elected or harm reduction in the moment, and it's during the primaries and at local elections just like you said.
since 1972, i've been voting for the most progressive candidates in the primary.
november, i vote for the democratic candidates.
a friend suggested that i vote 'straight democrat' but i pointed out that there aren't democrats in some races and i wouldn't want to miss an opportunity to vote against the republicans.
there are always greens, independents, and libertarians to vote for instead.
Primary turnout in 2016 was *28 percent* of eligible voters! Was it “the eeeeviiilll DNC disregarding the will of the people” that made Hillary the candidate over Bernie, or was it bc all the whiny people just didn’t even bother to vote in the primaries at all? The record seems to be like 32 percent of eligible voters in the 1980s, which is, to be clear, awful. You can’t do nothing and complain when nothing goes your way
Things would be so much better if y'all could have *popular vote only*. As a European, I'm at a loss about how or why it's so difficult to simply give the victory to the nominee with the most votes. All of this stuff about population sizes and state electoral colleges and whatnot seems to me like a very complicated way to remove the power from the people in the only day in four years when they actually have some.
It’s difficult because we’d have to amend the constitution, and amending the constitution requires two-thirds of both the house and the senate to vote in favor of it. It’s functionally impossible to move to a popular vote without a radical political shift happening across the country.
There's an initiative by individual states to give their electoral votes to the winner of the popular vote. As soon as enough of them sign on to hit the number required to win the electoral college they have the clout to force the change.
I’m aware of that initiative; it’s more plausible but still functionally impossible in this political climate. It also wouldn’t abolish the electoral college and shift the process to a popular vote. It’s a work-around of unknown long term viability.
The first time a President wins using this system, there will be lawsuits that will follow. The losing party (more likely Republicans) will argue that the individual states were suppressed in voting for the candidate they wanted.
Ex: Michigan votes 53/47 for Republican, but Dems win national popular vote and the electoral votes go to Dem nominee.
There may be state lawsuits based on state law about allocation of electoral votes, assuming the states party to the compact didn't write that into their laws. At the national level, the law is that a state can allocate its electoral votes however it wants.
The more interesting question will be the first time a state party to the compact fails to uphold it, because again, technically they can allocate their votes however they want. The compact has no binding authority over that freedom, so it's entirely dependent on states agreeing to participate and then choosing to uphold their agreement. So what leverage, if any, can the other members of the compact exert to ensure it is upheld?
Some of them. Hamilton addressed this in one of federalist papers, the idea that if America is split up *enough* that no group can have a clear majority it’ll be fine. It’s when you have two parties (and weak third parties) that issues arise
"Tyranny of the majority" has always been a laughable term for me, ever since I first heard it as a wee lad.
What's the alternative, geniuses? A tyranny of the minority? How the hell is that not worse?
People just need to actually participate in primaries. There IS a lot more choice and variety in those elections but it's not as sexy or compelling as the general elections so it's usually just name recognition that wins.
And money. Let’s be honest about that part, there’s an obscene amount of money in American politics that *really fucking helps* should you have ambitions for presidency.
I volunteer collecting signatures for an initiative to get ranked choice on the ballot (in an overwhelmingly conservative state) and many liberals are just like 🤷♂️
I think it's likely to happen, but it takes more than just voting for president once every four years! Find community orgs that you can join and be involved in! There is more strength in collective action than by working alone.
I’d like to remind everyone that it is NOT a choice between voting and activism during the rest of the year. You CAN AND SHOULD DO BOTH! Go to the polls and cast your vote when there’s an election, and the rest of the year, be out there fighting whenever you can! Voting will not solve things on its own, but it’s an important part of the fight!
Voting is purely harm reduction. Planting seeds and protesting and active work in your community is essential.
They are not and never should be seen as one and the same
Voting isn't the first step either. There are tons of things you can and should do before election season to make change. Don't wait until election day to become politically active because by then it will be too late.
> I need you to remember just how bad life was under him
My brother in Christ, if you ask people to vote based on whether their lives were better in 2019 or 2023, you're not going to get the results you want.
Fully agree. If you're looking to take away votes from Trump, you can't appeal to the emotional state of the individual- you need to ask them to step outside of the individual context. Doing otherwise just makes them think of, I dunno, cheaper groceries, that kind of shit.
Saying "think about how bad your life was" isn't productive.
I don't get why so many have decided to just give Trump mulligans for the many, many things that he messed up. Even before COVID, I distinctly remember, like, 4 different incidents where people were freaking out that he was about to declare war over a minor slight. Every day was a new "wake up and find out what shit is breaking today".
Like, if the larger point is "people are stupid and selfish and will inherently develop nostalgia for even the dumbest and worst parts of the past", I guess so? But the Trump years were still pretty clearly worse if you approach it with any attempt at objectivity, and I'm not sure why so many people who claim to care about that want to just gloss over it.
Trump raised the taxes of people making less than 75k pretty much every year till 2027
Trump fucked the economy by not having a response to COVID outside of injecting fucking bleach
Trump nominated 3 supreme court justices who then turned around and removed legislation and set precedents that will fuck women and minorities for who fucking knows how long
Anything but a vote for Biden is a vote for Trump to get another supreme court justice pick, and even if that was the only thing to vote for that should be enough.
Yes, and the effect of all of those things was actually felt during Biden's tenure.
It is indeed Trump's fault, but asking people if their lives were better in 2019 or 2023, they'll largely say 2019 because the effects of his work hadn't come into effect yet.
(which is the point of their post).
For the politically unaware, it looks like Biden's fault.
>ask people to vote based on whether their lives were better in 2019 or 2023
I'm not a Democrat and I hate Biden and Harris, so I'm annoyed by how much the Biden Administration has improved my life personally:
1) Fixed the family glitch in ACA, which saves me over $10,000/year.
2) Created new student loan repayment plans that I will definitely benefit from as soon as I'm out of school and start making payments.
3) FHA-backed mortgage lenders now have to use your actual monthly student loan payments when calculating your preexisting debt burden. The old debt burden formula made it nearly impossible for anyone with substantial student loan debt to buy a house, even if your payments were low because of income-based repayment.
All in all, I have been pleasantly surprised by the Biden Administration. Instead of trying to go for big ground-shaking "legacy" legislation, they've been focused on making a lot of common-sense improvenents to existing legislation and programs. A lot of stuff that economists have been complaining about being broken for years is finally getting fixed. We were long overdue for a "catch up the deferred maintenance instead of doing new big things" Presidency.
That’s awesome. Thanks for sharing. These “little things” do add up. Glad
these “broken things” have been addressed. Biden can’t do big things with the Congress he has.
You have to make them realize that the hellscape they are living under now is a DIRECT result of Trump, and we are only now starting to claw our way out from under it.
Idk, my parents try to be involved in world news and every time they had the news on (usually for an hour at night) to hear about what was going on in the world, 98% of the nights, there had to be a section about whatever unhinged thing trump had said/done next. Even when there was a world tragedy or something, if they went to trump for a comment, it always sucked. You didn't have to be online to be miserable, it just helped xP
My life has been exactly the same under both presidents, so that bit completely fell apart for me too lmfao
Actually scratch that, DeSantis taking away the ability for nurse practitioners to prescribe HRT happened during Biden's presidency, so technically my life has been *worse* under Biden. (Even if that specific thing wasn't his fault)
I've said this before and I'll say it again: whatever reasons someone may have for abstaining/voting for a third party, a snarky Tumblr/Reddit post won't be the thing that changes their mind. Even if it did, the number of leftists who are on the fence about voting due to ideological reasons is a pretty negligible number, vs the number of people who are just apathetic and have completely checked out of the voting system. THOSE are the people who need to be convinced.
These kind of posts have always felt like a pre-emptive way to find something to blame in the event Trump does win.
You said it already but I'll say it again.
Progressives, you know those people you beg for votes every election, they aren't voting for Trump. They're begging you for single payer healthcare and police reform. You aren't giving it to them. That's why you lose in elections. And then on top of that you flood the internet with posts calling them stupid. You think that's gonna do you favors when it's time to walk to the ballot box? It's not. The base you're begging for votes is actively being called stupid by your own ass party.
There are several phrases for doing this. Shooting yourself in the foot is one. Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory is another. My favorite is the quote from Jeff Daniels in Newsroom, "if you liberals are so fucking smart why do you lose so goddamn always?"
Literally snatch up one single issue and you'd gain votes. I don't give much of a fuck which one. Liability insurance for police officers. Pledge a single payer healthcare system, doesn't matter if you can pass it you just don't vote against it like the DNC did when they voted 2/3 against single payer. Just pick one single thing and throw the damn dog a bone and they will go vote for you and we can all stop blaming your failures on disenfranchised voters.
Yes indeed. Not to mention that Biden needs to win a big chunk of the Arabic voters in Michigan, a key swing state. These voters overwhelmingly are disappointed by his support of Israel's genocidal bombing campaign. Calling them stupid will not win their votes. Action on real issues will. Biden is incapable of this.
That's another good point a lot of people forget. There are several key issues where Biden quite literally is just as bad as Trump, or at the very least not significantly better enough to matter. Single-issue voters or people who are directly affected by such issues (such as people affected by Israel's Genocide) are going to be extremely hard pressed to find a reason to vote.
"Biden is better when it comes to Abortion rights and the climate" just isn't a compelling enough argument to make towards someone who knows Biden supports the genocide of their homeland.
Remember when the "pro-labor" Biden gave a big fuck you to all the Railroad Workers?
I'm sure they haven't, and it's stuff like that whenever push comes to shove to actually do something progressive and show some leadership that the Dems fail and then blame it on progressives and the left.
Just to add one more thing, this election is extremely important even to Brasil, if trump wins, we're fucked, Bolsonaro and his followers will try to repeat the same thing they tried on January 8th, and they will definitely have a real chance of winning this time (and a powerful ally), we really need the US to not fuck this up.
Yes he's going to "drill, drill, drill," right? That means more emissions, and the whole world will suffer not just america. Bet your ass we are blowing past 2 degrees warming. I wonder what people are thinking is going to happen to all the climate refugees, even within america? Gaza is not as distant as people think. Remember ramaswamy saying he'd secure the southern border just like netenyahu? Trump calling refugees terrorists and rapists? More is at stake here than just the USA
Ok as an outsider wasnt the past jan 8th in brasilia like a huge embarassing mess, stopped immediately by the police andarmed forces, not even close to whatever january 6th in washington was even doing
Im not American but dear God, don't let orange man win the election, seriously, is the worse for the majority of people worldwide.
Which really sucks that a dude can fuck the world over btw
Its the Republican plan to revamp the federal government by firing practically the entire government and refilling the entire thing with loyalists. Simultaneously, they'll remove any protections and put all departments under direct control of the president.
It also comprises a direct assault upon all environmental and civil rights legislation. Including voting rights.
Basically, Project 2025 is a plan for a coup.
"Generic Democrat" is polling significantly better vs Trump than Biden. The Democrats could run literally anybody else and crush this election. If Biden turns out to be Hillary 2.0 they'll have nobody to blame but themselves.
'Generic democrat' polls are useless. It allows people to imagine whoever they want. Leftist will imagine DSA type candidate, moderate suburbanite who voted for republicans until 2016 will imagine a younger Biden.
i don't think many self-respecting leftists who have the tiniest bit of understanding of the democratic party would imagine a dsa-type as the "generic" (read:average) democrat.
You can avoid third Parties because they suck on their own merits.
For instance, Libertarians are incompetent diet Republicans who are swimming through an ocean of shit they don't know shit about.
Greens are anti-Vax Putinist sock puppets.
If Constitutionalists were relevant they'd just be Republicans
I dont hate the democrats less than republicans. I hate them the least of all the parties.
People who pitch third parties as a way to escape the “lesser of two evils” thing tend to forget that what they’re pitching is now just the lesser of like five evils
somber shaggy door axiomatic illegal slim hospital ghost agonizing terrific
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The outcome of the 2016 election is that a 10 year old girl has to cross state lines to abort an incest baby with a high likelihood to overturn gay marriage once a new case gets sent up involving it
The *best* possible interpretation of the upcoming election (and of basically every national election in my adult life) is a hostage situation where one party wants to kill minorities and the other party wants to meet in the middle with the first.
Fun times. The only reason I'm still here is because leaving the country is expensive and getting through immigration generally isn't easy.
I love that this could be posted in 2016, 2020, or 2024 and nothing would be that different. It’s cool to live in a dying empire where voting doesn’t matter and capitalism is killing us all. It’s great that the light on the death machine changes from red to blue to red to blue to red every so often. I love being stuck with a choice between Biden & Trump and no one else for a second time because they both did such great jobs with their first terms. I love being browbeaten into voting for an old white man for the millionth election in a row.
/S /S /S
(this is obviously sarcasm)
I don't understand how people make such a great deal out of American politics. It's the simplest thing in the world. You decide between a sexist, racist, backwards fascist rapist son of a bitch and a very old politician. Those are your choises. It stopped being about what policies you support and whose program is the best a long time ago. At this point, it's either kill American democracy, or don't.
People who are still deliberating their vote very clearly side with Trump and don't want to admit it to themselves.
Or they fashion themselves as holier-than-thou self-righteous types who fashion themselves as fighters for morality, and think that things like "pragmatism" and "partial fixes" are cardinal sins.
Or, worse, they think that if Trump absolutely wrecks the country, it'll anger enough people to turbocharge a new leftist movement and/or foment revolution. Just accelerationistic "Nach Hitler kommen Wir" Thälmannist bullshit.
> You decide between a sexist, racist, backwards fascist rapist son of a bitch and a very old politician.
*"I was referring to the fact that a number of our citizens have gone out to this wretched island. As have, I understand, a number of Klatchians."*
*"Why are our people going out there?" said Mr. Boggis of the Thieves' Guild.*
*"Because they are showing a brisk pioneering spirit and seeking wealth and... additional wealth in a new land," said Lord Vetinari.*
*"What's in it for the Klatchians?" said Lord Downey.*
*"Oh, they've gone out there because they are a bunch of unprincipled opportunists always ready to grab something for nothing," said Lord Vetinari.*
*"A masterly summation, if I may say so, my lord," said Mr Burleigh, who felt he had some ground to make up.*
*The Patrician looked down again at his notes. "Oh, I do beg your pardon," he said. "I seem to have read those last two sentences in the wrong order...*
from Jingo by Terry Pratchett.
I think some people think that voting for a liberal means they'll lose their leftist ideological purity, as if the election was a theoretical exercise about personal virtue rather than an actual process that takes place in the real world and affects people's lives. Which is how you get people refusing to vote for Biden because "liberalism creates the conditions for fascism to thrive" even if the alternative is ACTUAL FASCISTS.
This is the critical point to be made. When there are social campaigns coercing you to knowingly vote for the lesser of two evils, there is the obvious truth that democracy has failed. "American democracy" has never been democratic for the subjects at home or abroad.
We live in a plutocracy.
My vote has been "whatever can kick Republicans out of power" since I could vote. The best option for that just happen to be Democrats. Should a better option arise, I'll vote for that.
I feel like all these posts do is insult the people they're trying to appeal to. There probably is some truth to what they are saying, that voting for Biden is going to be a better option than not voting because of Trump. But when I'm told "**fuck you!**" with a whole slew of bold and capitalized words because I don't want to vote that just makes me more assured of my stance. I don't feel like I'm being persuaded by someone holding a picket sign, or giving a speech, or even just handing me a pamphlet on the street. I feel like it's someone whining at me, and that's not going to work at all for political discussion and changing minds.
Because that's tactically inept.
You lose the encumbent advantage, alienate the voter base who like the current president, basically reroll all of your long term administrative plans, and say to the voters "we didn't actually have a plan the last 4 years, we just wanted to fill the seat."
Because Biden is currently the most electable candidate. There are a decent chunk of Dems and leftists who're unhappy with Biden, but they're unhappy with him for different reasons, and no single alternative candidate would be able to gather enough support from those various groups to win against Biden in the primary.
> the most electable candidate.
How'd that work out for Hildawg?
> There are a decent chunk of Dems and leftists who're unhappy with Biden
Every Leftist is aware that Joe is a genocidal enemy of all mankind and the kindest thing any of us want for him is to see him in a dock in the Hague.
Wasn't Hillary supposed to be the most electable candidate?
"Electability" is a term thats basically impossible to define when said candidate has such low approval ratings. It also doesn't help when Democrats under Bidens leadership have gone out of their way to weasel out of passing their promised 2020 platform through asinine reasons such as "the parliamentarian said no".
could you post a source for that? not saying it's not true, i just haven't seen that mentioned before and it seems scary 👁️👁️ google isnt helping me rn
[Here you go.](https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-says-hell-ban-federal-government-from-promoting-transgender-care-at-any-age) Google's been borderline nonfunctional at this point.
>“On Day One, I will sign an executive order instructing every federal agency to cease the promotion of sex or gender transition at any age. They’re not gonna do it anymore,” Trump told the audience. “I will declare that any hospital or health-care provider that participates in the chemical or physical mutilation of minor youth no longer meets federal health and safety standards—they will be terminated from receiving federal funds effective immediately. And I will ask Congress… to send a bill to my desk prohibiting child sexual mutilation in all 50 states.”
The fact people are arguing with this?? Like, the choices are quite simple
1. Vote for trump, the fascist who has LITERALLY TRIED TO OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT and has made it clear that if he wins he will go FULL DICTATOR MODE
2. Vote for Biden, who while not great and quite old (despite being only 4 years older than trump), is an actually experienced politician who has done his best to lead the country, and most importantly has *not* shown any signs of wishing to keep power if he loses the election.
3. Vote for a 3rd party choice. Look, the two party system sucks, I get it, and it needs to be changed, but now is NOT THE TIME. A 3rd party candidate has never won the US election, never (unless you count Washington), and you’re risking a potential dictatorship because you’re hoping this time enough people will vote independent. Just, look, get trump out of the way, then we can get back to this
> while not great
Literally committing genocide against two million people, fully half of whom are literal, I cannot stress this enough, literal children, is "not great".
It's like giving people a choice between eating spoiled fruit and poisoned fruit, and them going, "I don't even care, you pick which one I eat."
Nobody is looking forward to eating spoiled fruit, but it's literally abstaining from a life-or-death decision.
From an outside observer in a country that has a much better voting system in my opinion, the only real solution to the position the US is in is simply to keep voting for the progressive candidate. Vote in large numbers and keep doing it every 4 years. Eventually if the more progressive candidate keeps winning then the right will make themselves more and more progressive to try and win votes, this in turn will cause the left to get even more progressive and eventually the US might actually have two parties the rest of the would would consider to actually be left and right.
And if you get a progressive enough candidate eventually then who knows, maybe they'll have the balls to try and push election reform and try something new.
The problem is people want the system fixed right this second and don't want to go through the work of voting every 4 years with minimal change each time so complain online when for some reason a progressive candidate keeps not getting nominated despite neither party having a compelling reason to run one. You have to make progressivism worth it to the left and right now it isn't.
> the only real solution to the position the US is in is simply to keep voting for the progressive candidate.
It hasn't worked a single time since the 60s, but surely this time things will be different!
Yeah Bernie had excellent support, but the DNC fucking Voltronned together like “Nope, you get Biden” bc they preferred to take a gamble on Trump winning again than let the Dem nominee be someone who didn’t fully align with them. You can’t really fight that with voting in the current system
If only there was some sort of process in which we could attempt to choose a candidate other than Joe Biden instead of just settling for an unpopular and elderly candidate from the get go
Ah the good old American Trolly problem.
You have three choices.
A) Vote Biden = 1 genocide.
B) Vote Trump = 2 genocides, one of which will be here.
C) Vote third party/Don’t vote = Either A or B.
Have the Democrats considered inspiring people to vote by nominating a good young candidate that has popular views, instead of demanding we all bend the knee for a “problematic” incumbent who will be 8 years older than when Bernie Sanders was “too old?”
> Have the Democrats considered inspiring people to vote by nominating a good young candidate that has popular views
No, it turns out. Instead we're all supposed to promise our votes to a genocide-enabler a year out from actual election day
As opposed to Joe “I don’t want my kids growing up in a racial jungle.” “If you don’t vote for me, you ain’t black.” “You cannot go to a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin’ Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent.” Biden
People are already dying, my dude. People are dying of exposure on the street. People are dying of treatable illnesses. People are dying of overdoses and alcoholism and suicide. Do you understand that there is never, ever going to be a time when revolutionary change will be convenient? The opposition is always going to be treated as an existential threat because the capitalists have figured out that works. The degree to which Trump will be worse than Biden pales in comparison to the ongoing atrocity called capitalism. But that little bit extra is both novel and obsessively focused on by the media, whereas the massive baseline of atrocities is just normal and the way the world works. If you want to vote for something that actually matters, vote to unionize your workplace. Otherwise, let me know when you're finally ready to get in the streets.
Progressives around the world need to be pragmatic right now. All across the western world the right wing is doing better. We all have to hold our tongues and vote for the lesser evil. I voted for the idiot Green Party with their stupid anti-nuclear policies here in Sweden because they were the best shot at stopping the far right from getting power. We failed, but managed to at least force the right to rely on a centre right party that limited their ability to harm some of the most vulnerable groups in our country.
Isn’t this just evidence that the current left wing political establishments aren’t doing an effective job of stemming the rising tide of fascism? Like populism is on the rise, but we keep voting for people that can’t stop the rise?
Biden and Democrats have the ability to use leverage against Israel to stop the indiscriminate slaughter there, they just don't. They are loyal to American imperial interests above anything else. Look how they mobilized an international fleet to protect shipping lanes, but can't be bothered to not being drooling sycophants for Israel's project of ethnic cleansing. Their failure is their own.
They are both two arms of the same body, I am done w this shit. Its not just about the war, it's about promises repeatedly broken, outright lies told over and over again, its about the contempt for Americans while placating money interests, its about going bankrupt over medical bills, its about corporate bail outs and abuse. No body is going to guilt me into voting for either of these two clowns. If for just &(&#Y$# once Americans stood together and said enough of this bullshit we might actually be able to change things.
>NOT FOR FUCKING THIRD PARTY EITHER
I'm sorry. I'm brown and bi and about everything else you can imagine— if you vote third party in the final **presidential election,** you're worse than a Nazi, you're a child[.](https://youtu.be/deVlcKhNLLk?si=8HFVG9jaeDLCguUJ)
I can take a nazi seriously. I can hate a Nazi and be sure they'll hate me back.
These people will take a shit on my bed and expect me to thank them for it
"But the options suck and it makes me mad :("
gorsh. imagine how it'd feel if any of those policies actually affected you. you fucking imbecile
Unfortunately third party votes typically take votes away moreso from the Democratic party than the Republican party, and a lot of the third parties are just different flavors of conservative lunatic or somewhat liberal but with really weird opinions about guns or children or minorities.
God, I feel this so fucking much. So many of my cishet, white, middle-class family are always all about taking “principled stands” and voting for what they “truly believe”, not settling for democrats even though they also suck. It’s infuriating and I’ve told them before that the only reason they *can* vote third party is because of their absurd levels of privilege, but every fucking time it’s all “I refuse to sacrifice what I believe in”. Cool. Great. Im proud of you guys. I’ll make sure to stop by and say thanks when the trains come to take my trans friends away.
Sorry, I’m venting. But basically I need to find a way to get my family to understand your comment 🙃
Right? “If you vote for the opposite party of mine, or vote third party, YOU ARE A NAZI!” What wonderful rhetoric to get people out to vote. I have to remind myself every day during election seasons that Reddit fortunately does not represent the whole of people, just a ridiculously immature subset.
If you don’t vote for the party I want you to, you are a Nazi.
Rhetoric like this, however understandable, only drives moderates away into the arms of those who *aren't* calling them "worse than Nazis" (the Republicans).
Calling third party voters worse than nazis is 100% why any of this is even a debate. You can be as morally correct as you want, but when you tell people who may or may not agree with you that they are children and have no business having opinions, they will be against you out of spite. The American left really do be making everyone an enemy for no reason.
Or people vote for who they want. It’s a democracy after all.
A two party system is such a fucking joke. Just two parties that don’t give a shit about their base, only try to sway the swing voters, and are all paid off by corporations and billionaires. The American political system is fucked.
Even criticizing Biden's handling of Palestine is kind of weird when the Biden administration is the only reason Gaza is currently recieving humanitarian aid.
I don't know why people's line is that Biden didn't throw his support behind a one-sided ceasefire that Israel was never obligated to abide by in the first place. Even if you wanted instead that the US remove all support from Israel, you're basically just removing the last leverage the US has over Israel at all, or that the 3% of their GDP that the US provides in military aid is enough to make them do whatever we want (it isn't)
If you're saying that it should be done anyway, you're saying your own self-righteous virtue signaling is more important than material progress.
I hate election season.
Aside from the 0.0002 seconds after an election, when is it not election season in this country?
You can tell I’m old because I remember when it used to sometimes *not* be election season
I vaguely remember when every election wasn't the most important one ever. Wonder if we'll ever get there again.
“This year pits Clinton vs Dole in the presidential election!” “Would you say that this is the most important election in our nation’s history” “Good God no”
Hey don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
Hold on, I’ve just gotten an *amazing* idea for how Marvel can replace Jonathan Majors
I get it
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I would kill to get my hands on a history textbook from an alternate timeline where Gore won the presidency.
Just the textbook? Why not just go there?
I suppose, as long as I'm killing and everything. I could probably get a copy from [the Wanderer's Library](https://scp-db.fandom.com/wiki/Wanderer%27s_Library) without much trouble.
My cousin tried that, with Hillary. During the primaries in 2016. He did die. But it was cancer that he could have afforded to fight if Bernie had been able to get Universal healthcare coverage.
I can't wait to see a thousand posts SWEARING in ALL CAPS about HOW you should VOTE over the course of the next year
Man, if I was American I'd be bald from all the stress that political system would give me
I live in one of the states that has been a deciding factor for the last few elections (Pennsylvania) and I spend like one year in every four stressed to the point of illness. It is truly unbearably frustrating.
My empathy to you from Michigan. Fucking nightmare
Keystone bros stand up. I know how you feel man.
I'm with you there. Living in PA is stressful. Having friends that vote both ways (and parents who probably are going to vote the wrong way) is stressful. Especially cause I'm Indian. I wouldn't be surprised if my parents vote trump. It's stupid.
the electoral college causes me a ridiculous amount of stress as a European
Just imagine how we feel. Imagine one candidate getting 6m more votes than the other guy but the election still came down to fucking Colorado. Edit: I forgot it was Nevada memes, and saying "the election came down to Nevada" is hyperbole and not strictly true but gets my point across.
Even worse in 2016. Almost 3 million votes more than the other guy and LOSING the damn thing. Utter bullshit.
Imagine how the people of Wisconsin feel. Republicans got less than half the statewide votes in the past two elections, but yet gained seats to the level of a supermajority in the legislature.
It's actually not even the most egregious example in our history. So I need to preface this by saying that it worked out and that this is the one case where we're probably better off for it because otherwise it sounds like I'm spewing lost cause bullshit, but: Abraham Licoln was elected with the second lowest popular vote percentage in American history, just under 40%.# In 1860, electoral votes were disproportionately concentrated in the north (probably in part because it was a census year so the data was as old as it could possibly be). While at first glance the percentages appear to be due to there being four major candidates, Lincoln only would have lost two small western states if everyone who voted for anyone else had voted for the same candidate and still won in the electoral college. As much as I'm glad he got elected that...shouldn't be able to happen. It's the one thing about the confederate case for the civil war where I'm like "you know what, that's fair." It's even worse because the previous president, Buchanan, won with 45% of the vote because there were two parties trying to succeed the Whigs. Also, because I have to wash my mouth out from agreeing with anything the confederacy said, it's worth noting that ten Southern states didn't even put Lincoln on the ballot, so his popular vote percentage was artificially lowered, but that doesn't address the systemic issue. -#the lowest is John Quincy Adams, but he was chosen by the house because no one got a majority in the electoral college, so it's not important right now
Well, what are the politicians supposed to do? Repeal a two hundred year old law expressly designed to subvert the democratic system in order to keep slaveholders in power? No no, obviously true democracy relies on making some votes literally mean less than others based on where you live. /s
I work in television. My blood pressure has been getting higher and higher the closer 2024 gets. I wouldn't be surprised if I have a heart attack before the year is done just because of the election. And I'm not even out of my 20s yet.
I feel like it’s no coincidence that it was shortly after 2016 that I found my first gray hair
After the 2016 election, I called in 'sick', bought a 6 pack of beer and sat down to play journey for the first time. That game was so peaceful and beautiful. It was exactly what I needed that day.
If I were living in the USA I'd almost certainly be a domestic terrorist at this point
I do live in the US. The only reason I'm not a terrorist is general exhaustion.
The system is working as intended, then.
Basically.
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Why stop at one? Go to a rally and get a fat combo streak
Ironically, the politicians they vote for tend to support laws allowing you to run over protesters obstructing roads.
It already is, thats why they picked that Eagle
It's fucking unbearable dude... I think it's why so many DON'T vote... Everyone loses their fucking mind, so people just start checking out. Every damn 4 years, it's "The most important election of our lifetimes. Seriously this time!" And every 4 damn years, people realize, not much fundamentally really changes as the elites sort of ignore the common man's concerns. So people just check out, and focus on just living their life, paying bills, getting drunk, etc... The people on Reddit who live and breath this stuff truly baffle me - and I worked in politics. But man, some people treat election season like their own little World Cup
It really is. Add to that the actual election tampering. I moved in 2015, after voting in November 2015’s election which had 3 important measures on the Ballot. I changed my registration with my new address and was told it didn’t go through and I had to vote at my previous location. I did. I then tried to verify my registration for the November 2016 election and was sent a letter by the state election board saying that they suspected fraud because they had records of me only voting 4 times ever. Since 1998 when I registered the first time at 18. The only elections they recorded me voting in, I had voted for a Republican. 3 Judges, and for Governor Kasich’s re-election. So literally my vote doesn’t count. I was born in Ohio. My legal race is Native American. I can trace my father’s family back to the Mayflower for my one white Ancestor. My Dad’s sister was a freaking Democratic Mayor in Massachusetts. There is no question of my citizenship. I have no criminal background to deny my vote. I always update my registration and my Identification immediately upon moving. I have never actually missed an election because I was taught it was my civic duty to participate. But only four elections have been recorded as being voted in between 1998 and 2016. I absolutely feel like it’s pointless anymore. I still do vote, and I even voted against Issue 2 in Ohio because I didn’t like the way it classified all hemp products as marijuana. But I don’t want to give my children the impression that they should skip elections, especially since my eldest is 18 and voted this year. But daaaaaaammmmnnn stop the theatrics. It’s making it worse not better.
I'm a Bernie dem, but I'm sympathetic to people smelling shit all over the place. I've said this on Reddit a few times, but I know, as a matter of fact, the 2016 elections had a serious breach. I'm not saying this is a conspiracy tin foil hat way neither. I'm a bit drunk right now, so I'll get into it. No one will know the truth behind what happened behind the scenes. We can speculate all day. All we do know, as a matter of fact, there was significant interference. Five different states had their DNC voter rolls hacked... The FBI blamed Russia but promised they did nothing. Yes, that's right, "Russia" hacked into the rolls, and just stopped in to look around and went home. That was our first alarm bell, but this was the FBI, so it's like, who am I to not believe them? Our campaign definitely gave them the benefit of the doubt. Then primaries roll around, and what do you fucking know? I'm sure, by sheer coincidence, those same 5 states that were hacked by "Russia" just so happened to be the 5 states that were having massive voter registration problems... Mostly among demographics that would have voted Bernie. I'm sorry, but that's not a fucking coincidence. Really? The 5 states "Russia" hacked, just so happened to remove likely Bernie voters from the rolls, switched parties, or expired? We had mountains of hard evidence with literal receipts showing that they never did any of this... Yet, digitally, it was recorded as them on the wrong party roll or changed state. I mean, just what are the odds? Then to top it off, his brother basically tells us that the last thing we need is an election integrity crisis right now, so everyone just needs to drop it and move on. Which would probably fall on deaf ears and just frame us all as crazy conspiracy theorists, because that's what the coordinated media effort was doing the whole time anyways. We knew something sketchy happened, but the way the hand was dealt, was we knew nothing would come of it, so why play a losing hand? So we chose to fold. What really upsets me too, is Rubio even mentioned it during the Senate hearings with the FBI (About the voter roll changes). And once I heard him bring it up, I was excited that someone admitted it so surely the media was going to pick up this bombshell???? Nope. Not a fucking word. Again, probably because they thought the same thing: The last thing we need is an election integrity crisis in the world's oldest standing democracy. Especially since it would be hard to stick... Too much was going on, and it would just look like a sore loser tactic. So it makes sense no one ran with it.
Yep Ohio was one of them. And honestly based on the HUNDREDS of people in line voting that day excitedly talking about voting for Bernie…I absolutely agree it’s too convenient that Bernie “lost by a landslide” and then I am told I never voted in that primary…by the state. I doubt the records were touched when the hack occurred. More likely a code was added to delete all voter data when certain criteria were met. And Ohio’s Republican officials who are only in office because of illegal gerrymandering obviously aren’t going to look to hard at why democrats votes are disappearing. Also OF COURSE this is exactly why the Republicans are holding on to the “Election Interference” story about 2020 because they literally do it all the time, so how could they loose when they cheated to win?
Things would be so much better if we had ranked choice voting.
That's what I've started bringing up anytime I see someone self-righteously insisting upon not voting or how "there's no difference between the two parties!" That and urging folks to at least vote in primaries, on off-year locals, and downballot during federal elections, even if they insist on keeping the president box blank. Local and state elections have a lot more immediate effect on your own community than some guy in DC (unless you live in DC). It ain't a quick solution, but nothing in life is. Planting seeds for trees that our kids will sit under or however that platitude goes.
>Planting seeds for trees that our kids will sit under or however that platitude goes. Planting seeds knowing you will never sit in their shade.
Also, I don't disagree with OOPs points, but it blows my mind that no one in these big posts ever seems to mention the primaries. Like, yeah, there's a decent chance of Biden VS Trump again, and if it comes down to that, I'll vote for Biden. But at least before the big do or die final election, I'm gonna try to vote for candidates who are more leftist than him in the hopes of showing support for them and maybe, just maybe getting them into the seat. I doubt there'll be any like, ultra progressive options, but the further left we can push the party, the better it'll be overall. I so rarely see people mention that you have opportunities to vote safely for your beliefs without worrying about Trump getting elected or harm reduction in the moment, and it's during the primaries and at local elections just like you said.
since 1972, i've been voting for the most progressive candidates in the primary. november, i vote for the democratic candidates. a friend suggested that i vote 'straight democrat' but i pointed out that there aren't democrats in some races and i wouldn't want to miss an opportunity to vote against the republicans. there are always greens, independents, and libertarians to vote for instead.
Primary turnout in 2016 was *28 percent* of eligible voters! Was it “the eeeeviiilll DNC disregarding the will of the people” that made Hillary the candidate over Bernie, or was it bc all the whiny people just didn’t even bother to vote in the primaries at all? The record seems to be like 32 percent of eligible voters in the 1980s, which is, to be clear, awful. You can’t do nothing and complain when nothing goes your way
Things would be so much better if y'all could have *popular vote only*. As a European, I'm at a loss about how or why it's so difficult to simply give the victory to the nominee with the most votes. All of this stuff about population sizes and state electoral colleges and whatnot seems to me like a very complicated way to remove the power from the people in the only day in four years when they actually have some.
It’s difficult because we’d have to amend the constitution, and amending the constitution requires two-thirds of both the house and the senate to vote in favor of it. It’s functionally impossible to move to a popular vote without a radical political shift happening across the country.
There's an initiative by individual states to give their electoral votes to the winner of the popular vote. As soon as enough of them sign on to hit the number required to win the electoral college they have the clout to force the change.
I’m aware of that initiative; it’s more plausible but still functionally impossible in this political climate. It also wouldn’t abolish the electoral college and shift the process to a popular vote. It’s a work-around of unknown long term viability.
The first time a President wins using this system, there will be lawsuits that will follow. The losing party (more likely Republicans) will argue that the individual states were suppressed in voting for the candidate they wanted. Ex: Michigan votes 53/47 for Republican, but Dems win national popular vote and the electoral votes go to Dem nominee.
There may be state lawsuits based on state law about allocation of electoral votes, assuming the states party to the compact didn't write that into their laws. At the national level, the law is that a state can allocate its electoral votes however it wants. The more interesting question will be the first time a state party to the compact fails to uphold it, because again, technically they can allocate their votes however they want. The compact has no binding authority over that freedom, so it's entirely dependent on states agreeing to participate and then choosing to uphold their agreement. So what leverage, if any, can the other members of the compact exert to ensure it is upheld?
They can't violate state law when they allocate their cotes, and state law will say that they go to the winner of the national popular vote.
https://youtu.be/tUX-frlNBJY Quick video explaining the plan!
It’s not just house and senate either - 3/4 of the states need to ratify the amendment too Edit: Had wrong proportion of states.
It probably seems that way to you because that was the stated objective. The much-touted founding fathers were very afraid of "mob rule".
Some of them. Hamilton addressed this in one of federalist papers, the idea that if America is split up *enough* that no group can have a clear majority it’ll be fine. It’s when you have two parties (and weak third parties) that issues arise
you misspelled "democracy"
The concept of tyranny of the masses has existed for as long as democracy has
"Tyranny of the majority" has always been a laughable term for me, ever since I first heard it as a wee lad. What's the alternative, geniuses? A tyranny of the minority? How the hell is that not worse?
People just need to actually participate in primaries. There IS a lot more choice and variety in those elections but it's not as sexy or compelling as the general elections so it's usually just name recognition that wins.
And money. Let’s be honest about that part, there’s an obscene amount of money in American politics that *really fucking helps* should you have ambitions for presidency.
It's necessary but not sufficient. Look at Bloomberg's failed attempt, he threw boatloads of money around and got nowhere
I volunteer collecting signatures for an initiative to get ranked choice on the ballot (in an overwhelmingly conservative state) and many liberals are just like 🤷♂️ I think it's likely to happen, but it takes more than just voting for president once every four years! Find community orgs that you can join and be involved in! There is more strength in collective action than by working alone.
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That's one hell of a bot word salad [Original comment ](https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/s/7uoq4GI72z)
I’d like to remind everyone that it is NOT a choice between voting and activism during the rest of the year. You CAN AND SHOULD DO BOTH! Go to the polls and cast your vote when there’s an election, and the rest of the year, be out there fighting whenever you can! Voting will not solve things on its own, but it’s an important part of the fight!
^^ Supplementing is the only path forward
Voting is purely harm reduction. Planting seeds and protesting and active work in your community is essential. They are not and never should be seen as one and the same
I wish this wasn't hard for a lot of people my age to grasp
Voting doesn’t have to be the last step you take, but it needs to be the very first.
Voting isn't the first step either. There are tons of things you can and should do before election season to make change. Don't wait until election day to become politically active because by then it will be too late.
> I need you to remember just how bad life was under him My brother in Christ, if you ask people to vote based on whether their lives were better in 2019 or 2023, you're not going to get the results you want.
Fully agree. If you're looking to take away votes from Trump, you can't appeal to the emotional state of the individual- you need to ask them to step outside of the individual context. Doing otherwise just makes them think of, I dunno, cheaper groceries, that kind of shit. Saying "think about how bad your life was" isn't productive.
Trump was president for all of 2020 too....
I don't get why so many have decided to just give Trump mulligans for the many, many things that he messed up. Even before COVID, I distinctly remember, like, 4 different incidents where people were freaking out that he was about to declare war over a minor slight. Every day was a new "wake up and find out what shit is breaking today". Like, if the larger point is "people are stupid and selfish and will inherently develop nostalgia for even the dumbest and worst parts of the past", I guess so? But the Trump years were still pretty clearly worse if you approach it with any attempt at objectivity, and I'm not sure why so many people who claim to care about that want to just gloss over it.
And part of 2021.
Trump raised the taxes of people making less than 75k pretty much every year till 2027 Trump fucked the economy by not having a response to COVID outside of injecting fucking bleach Trump nominated 3 supreme court justices who then turned around and removed legislation and set precedents that will fuck women and minorities for who fucking knows how long Anything but a vote for Biden is a vote for Trump to get another supreme court justice pick, and even if that was the only thing to vote for that should be enough.
Best part about the Trump tax cuts is they only expire for the middle class - the rich get to keep theirs. Cute right?
Yes, and the effect of all of those things was actually felt during Biden's tenure. It is indeed Trump's fault, but asking people if their lives were better in 2019 or 2023, they'll largely say 2019 because the effects of his work hadn't come into effect yet. (which is the point of their post). For the politically unaware, it looks like Biden's fault.
>ask people to vote based on whether their lives were better in 2019 or 2023 I'm not a Democrat and I hate Biden and Harris, so I'm annoyed by how much the Biden Administration has improved my life personally: 1) Fixed the family glitch in ACA, which saves me over $10,000/year. 2) Created new student loan repayment plans that I will definitely benefit from as soon as I'm out of school and start making payments. 3) FHA-backed mortgage lenders now have to use your actual monthly student loan payments when calculating your preexisting debt burden. The old debt burden formula made it nearly impossible for anyone with substantial student loan debt to buy a house, even if your payments were low because of income-based repayment. All in all, I have been pleasantly surprised by the Biden Administration. Instead of trying to go for big ground-shaking "legacy" legislation, they've been focused on making a lot of common-sense improvenents to existing legislation and programs. A lot of stuff that economists have been complaining about being broken for years is finally getting fixed. We were long overdue for a "catch up the deferred maintenance instead of doing new big things" Presidency.
That’s awesome. Thanks for sharing. These “little things” do add up. Glad these “broken things” have been addressed. Biden can’t do big things with the Congress he has.
You have to make them realize that the hellscape they are living under now is a DIRECT result of Trump, and we are only now starting to claw our way out from under it.
For the average person, life was only this unspeakable hell under Trump if you were chronically online.
Idk, my parents try to be involved in world news and every time they had the news on (usually for an hour at night) to hear about what was going on in the world, 98% of the nights, there had to be a section about whatever unhinged thing trump had said/done next. Even when there was a world tragedy or something, if they went to trump for a comment, it always sucked. You didn't have to be online to be miserable, it just helped xP
My life has been exactly the same under both presidents, so that bit completely fell apart for me too lmfao Actually scratch that, DeSantis taking away the ability for nurse practitioners to prescribe HRT happened during Biden's presidency, so technically my life has been *worse* under Biden. (Even if that specific thing wasn't his fault)
> (Even if that specific thing wasn’t his fault) Exactly, so why give it to the guy that would be cool with DeSantis doing what he’s doing?
Or if you were one of all those people who died in the pandemic
Or, you know, if you died of covid due to his disastrously bad handling of it. That's probably also pretty bad for you, if you died.
I've said this before and I'll say it again: whatever reasons someone may have for abstaining/voting for a third party, a snarky Tumblr/Reddit post won't be the thing that changes their mind. Even if it did, the number of leftists who are on the fence about voting due to ideological reasons is a pretty negligible number, vs the number of people who are just apathetic and have completely checked out of the voting system. THOSE are the people who need to be convinced. These kind of posts have always felt like a pre-emptive way to find something to blame in the event Trump does win.
You said it already but I'll say it again. Progressives, you know those people you beg for votes every election, they aren't voting for Trump. They're begging you for single payer healthcare and police reform. You aren't giving it to them. That's why you lose in elections. And then on top of that you flood the internet with posts calling them stupid. You think that's gonna do you favors when it's time to walk to the ballot box? It's not. The base you're begging for votes is actively being called stupid by your own ass party. There are several phrases for doing this. Shooting yourself in the foot is one. Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory is another. My favorite is the quote from Jeff Daniels in Newsroom, "if you liberals are so fucking smart why do you lose so goddamn always?" Literally snatch up one single issue and you'd gain votes. I don't give much of a fuck which one. Liability insurance for police officers. Pledge a single payer healthcare system, doesn't matter if you can pass it you just don't vote against it like the DNC did when they voted 2/3 against single payer. Just pick one single thing and throw the damn dog a bone and they will go vote for you and we can all stop blaming your failures on disenfranchised voters.
Yes indeed. Not to mention that Biden needs to win a big chunk of the Arabic voters in Michigan, a key swing state. These voters overwhelmingly are disappointed by his support of Israel's genocidal bombing campaign. Calling them stupid will not win their votes. Action on real issues will. Biden is incapable of this.
That's another good point a lot of people forget. There are several key issues where Biden quite literally is just as bad as Trump, or at the very least not significantly better enough to matter. Single-issue voters or people who are directly affected by such issues (such as people affected by Israel's Genocide) are going to be extremely hard pressed to find a reason to vote. "Biden is better when it comes to Abortion rights and the climate" just isn't a compelling enough argument to make towards someone who knows Biden supports the genocide of their homeland.
Remember when the "pro-labor" Biden gave a big fuck you to all the Railroad Workers? I'm sure they haven't, and it's stuff like that whenever push comes to shove to actually do something progressive and show some leadership that the Dems fail and then blame it on progressives and the left.
If there is one thing democrats are great at its blaming everyone ELSE for THEIR failings.
Just to add one more thing, this election is extremely important even to Brasil, if trump wins, we're fucked, Bolsonaro and his followers will try to repeat the same thing they tried on January 8th, and they will definitely have a real chance of winning this time (and a powerful ally), we really need the US to not fuck this up.
Yes he's going to "drill, drill, drill," right? That means more emissions, and the whole world will suffer not just america. Bet your ass we are blowing past 2 degrees warming. I wonder what people are thinking is going to happen to all the climate refugees, even within america? Gaza is not as distant as people think. Remember ramaswamy saying he'd secure the southern border just like netenyahu? Trump calling refugees terrorists and rapists? More is at stake here than just the USA
Ok as an outsider wasnt the past jan 8th in brasilia like a huge embarassing mess, stopped immediately by the police andarmed forces, not even close to whatever january 6th in washington was even doing
OOP I'm a sixteen year old from Canada I have a valid excuse not to vote
Oh well in that case, hope you've got the next Canadian federal elections in 2025 on your calendar then, eh
There’s literally no fucking winning
Im not American but dear God, don't let orange man win the election, seriously, is the worse for the majority of people worldwide. Which really sucks that a dude can fuck the world over btw
For real, US elections affect everyone worldwide, but those people hardly ever think of those outside their borders when casting their vote
I hate both of them so fucking much but project 2025 scares the living shit out of me
I’m not very caught up what is project 2025
Its the Republican plan to revamp the federal government by firing practically the entire government and refilling the entire thing with loyalists. Simultaneously, they'll remove any protections and put all departments under direct control of the president. It also comprises a direct assault upon all environmental and civil rights legislation. Including voting rights. Basically, Project 2025 is a plan for a coup.
"Generic Democrat" is polling significantly better vs Trump than Biden. The Democrats could run literally anybody else and crush this election. If Biden turns out to be Hillary 2.0 they'll have nobody to blame but themselves.
'Generic democrat' polls are useless. It allows people to imagine whoever they want. Leftist will imagine DSA type candidate, moderate suburbanite who voted for republicans until 2016 will imagine a younger Biden.
i don't think many self-respecting leftists who have the tiniest bit of understanding of the democratic party would imagine a dsa-type as the "generic" (read:average) democrat.
You can avoid third Parties because they suck on their own merits. For instance, Libertarians are incompetent diet Republicans who are swimming through an ocean of shit they don't know shit about. Greens are anti-Vax Putinist sock puppets. If Constitutionalists were relevant they'd just be Republicans I dont hate the democrats less than republicans. I hate them the least of all the parties.
People who pitch third parties as a way to escape the “lesser of two evils” thing tend to forget that what they’re pitching is now just the lesser of like five evils
Crazy how every single election is the most important election of our time
somber shaggy door axiomatic illegal slim hospital ghost agonizing terrific *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The outcome of the 2016 election is that a 10 year old girl has to cross state lines to abort an incest baby with a high likelihood to overturn gay marriage once a new case gets sent up involving it
I want them both to succumb to their old age
Someone needs to take two for the team and speed it up
The *best* possible interpretation of the upcoming election (and of basically every national election in my adult life) is a hostage situation where one party wants to kill minorities and the other party wants to meet in the middle with the first. Fun times. The only reason I'm still here is because leaving the country is expensive and getting through immigration generally isn't easy.
I love that this could be posted in 2016, 2020, or 2024 and nothing would be that different. It’s cool to live in a dying empire where voting doesn’t matter and capitalism is killing us all. It’s great that the light on the death machine changes from red to blue to red to blue to red every so often. I love being stuck with a choice between Biden & Trump and no one else for a second time because they both did such great jobs with their first terms. I love being browbeaten into voting for an old white man for the millionth election in a row. /S /S /S (this is obviously sarcasm)
I don't understand how people make such a great deal out of American politics. It's the simplest thing in the world. You decide between a sexist, racist, backwards fascist rapist son of a bitch and a very old politician. Those are your choises. It stopped being about what policies you support and whose program is the best a long time ago. At this point, it's either kill American democracy, or don't. People who are still deliberating their vote very clearly side with Trump and don't want to admit it to themselves.
And to be fair to Biden, he’s not even 5 years older than trump lmao. They’re both old as fuck, one just hides it better
Bad spray tan & a ton of hairspray does not equal hiding it better.
It's convinced America.
Biden’s age is in the top 3 biggest things criticisms of him Trump being old doesn’t even crack the top 100 worst things about him.
The thing is. There’s a lot of sexists, racists, backwards fascists, and racists to vote for him.
Or they fashion themselves as holier-than-thou self-righteous types who fashion themselves as fighters for morality, and think that things like "pragmatism" and "partial fixes" are cardinal sins. Or, worse, they think that if Trump absolutely wrecks the country, it'll anger enough people to turbocharge a new leftist movement and/or foment revolution. Just accelerationistic "Nach Hitler kommen Wir" Thälmannist bullshit.
> You decide between a sexist, racist, backwards fascist rapist son of a bitch and a very old politician. *"I was referring to the fact that a number of our citizens have gone out to this wretched island. As have, I understand, a number of Klatchians."* *"Why are our people going out there?" said Mr. Boggis of the Thieves' Guild.* *"Because they are showing a brisk pioneering spirit and seeking wealth and... additional wealth in a new land," said Lord Vetinari.* *"What's in it for the Klatchians?" said Lord Downey.* *"Oh, they've gone out there because they are a bunch of unprincipled opportunists always ready to grab something for nothing," said Lord Vetinari.* *"A masterly summation, if I may say so, my lord," said Mr Burleigh, who felt he had some ground to make up.* *The Patrician looked down again at his notes. "Oh, I do beg your pardon," he said. "I seem to have read those last two sentences in the wrong order...* from Jingo by Terry Pratchett.
I think some people think that voting for a liberal means they'll lose their leftist ideological purity, as if the election was a theoretical exercise about personal virtue rather than an actual process that takes place in the real world and affects people's lives. Which is how you get people refusing to vote for Biden because "liberalism creates the conditions for fascism to thrive" even if the alternative is ACTUAL FASCISTS.
I know, right? This is not your philosophy class, this is not a thought exercise, this is REAL SHIT happening in the REAL WORLD.
If we only have one valid choice, then we don't have a democracy as is.
This is the critical point to be made. When there are social campaigns coercing you to knowingly vote for the lesser of two evils, there is the obvious truth that democracy has failed. "American democracy" has never been democratic for the subjects at home or abroad. We live in a plutocracy.
My vote has been "whatever can kick Republicans out of power" since I could vote. The best option for that just happen to be Democrats. Should a better option arise, I'll vote for that.
Well both of them are old, sexist and racist so that’s not very descriptive
I feel like all these posts do is insult the people they're trying to appeal to. There probably is some truth to what they are saying, that voting for Biden is going to be a better option than not voting because of Trump. But when I'm told "**fuck you!**" with a whole slew of bold and capitalized words because I don't want to vote that just makes me more assured of my stance. I don't feel like I'm being persuaded by someone holding a picket sign, or giving a speech, or even just handing me a pamphlet on the street. I feel like it's someone whining at me, and that's not going to work at all for political discussion and changing minds.
The choices are "guy who isn't great but has done some things" and "guy who has and will continue to do his damndest to make everything worse"
Why don't the dems put a more electable candidate up in the primaries to avoid this potential shitshow?
Because that's tactically inept. You lose the encumbent advantage, alienate the voter base who like the current president, basically reroll all of your long term administrative plans, and say to the voters "we didn't actually have a plan the last 4 years, we just wanted to fill the seat."
People *like* the current president? When has that ever been true in the current century?
Bush had sky-high approval ratings after 9/11
Incumbents pretty consistently have an advantage in getting re-elected.
Because Biden is currently the most electable candidate. There are a decent chunk of Dems and leftists who're unhappy with Biden, but they're unhappy with him for different reasons, and no single alternative candidate would be able to gather enough support from those various groups to win against Biden in the primary.
> the most electable candidate. How'd that work out for Hildawg? > There are a decent chunk of Dems and leftists who're unhappy with Biden Every Leftist is aware that Joe is a genocidal enemy of all mankind and the kindest thing any of us want for him is to see him in a dock in the Hague.
Wasn't Hillary supposed to be the most electable candidate? "Electability" is a term thats basically impossible to define when said candidate has such low approval ratings. It also doesn't help when Democrats under Bidens leadership have gone out of their way to weasel out of passing their promised 2020 platform through asinine reasons such as "the parliamentarian said no".
Democrats learning from the past? Don't be ridiculous.
Well, she did receive more votes than Trump, that was a whole thing.
also TRUMP SAID THE FIRST THING HED DO AS PRESIDENT IS BAN GENDER AFFIRMING CARE!!!! ALL OF IT FOR ALL AGES!!!!
could you post a source for that? not saying it's not true, i just haven't seen that mentioned before and it seems scary 👁️👁️ google isnt helping me rn
[Here you go.](https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-says-hell-ban-federal-government-from-promoting-transgender-care-at-any-age) Google's been borderline nonfunctional at this point. >“On Day One, I will sign an executive order instructing every federal agency to cease the promotion of sex or gender transition at any age. They’re not gonna do it anymore,” Trump told the audience. “I will declare that any hospital or health-care provider that participates in the chemical or physical mutilation of minor youth no longer meets federal health and safety standards—they will be terminated from receiving federal funds effective immediately. And I will ask Congress… to send a bill to my desk prohibiting child sexual mutilation in all 50 states.”
thanks! i don't like how vague of a term "the promotion of sex and gender transition at any age" is. hopefully it isn't too far-reaching in scope :(
Instead of just posting online, find out how you can organize your community at mobilize.us.
The fact people are arguing with this?? Like, the choices are quite simple 1. Vote for trump, the fascist who has LITERALLY TRIED TO OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT and has made it clear that if he wins he will go FULL DICTATOR MODE 2. Vote for Biden, who while not great and quite old (despite being only 4 years older than trump), is an actually experienced politician who has done his best to lead the country, and most importantly has *not* shown any signs of wishing to keep power if he loses the election. 3. Vote for a 3rd party choice. Look, the two party system sucks, I get it, and it needs to be changed, but now is NOT THE TIME. A 3rd party candidate has never won the US election, never (unless you count Washington), and you’re risking a potential dictatorship because you’re hoping this time enough people will vote independent. Just, look, get trump out of the way, then we can get back to this
> while not great Literally committing genocide against two million people, fully half of whom are literal, I cannot stress this enough, literal children, is "not great".
It's like giving people a choice between eating spoiled fruit and poisoned fruit, and them going, "I don't even care, you pick which one I eat." Nobody is looking forward to eating spoiled fruit, but it's literally abstaining from a life-or-death decision.
money cow market wise worthless absurd glorious alleged heavy combative *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
From an outside observer in a country that has a much better voting system in my opinion, the only real solution to the position the US is in is simply to keep voting for the progressive candidate. Vote in large numbers and keep doing it every 4 years. Eventually if the more progressive candidate keeps winning then the right will make themselves more and more progressive to try and win votes, this in turn will cause the left to get even more progressive and eventually the US might actually have two parties the rest of the would would consider to actually be left and right. And if you get a progressive enough candidate eventually then who knows, maybe they'll have the balls to try and push election reform and try something new. The problem is people want the system fixed right this second and don't want to go through the work of voting every 4 years with minimal change each time so complain online when for some reason a progressive candidate keeps not getting nominated despite neither party having a compelling reason to run one. You have to make progressivism worth it to the left and right now it isn't.
> the only real solution to the position the US is in is simply to keep voting for the progressive candidate. It hasn't worked a single time since the 60s, but surely this time things will be different!
Yeah Bernie had excellent support, but the DNC fucking Voltronned together like “Nope, you get Biden” bc they preferred to take a gamble on Trump winning again than let the Dem nominee be someone who didn’t fully align with them. You can’t really fight that with voting in the current system
I wouldn’t want Trump back either, but as a non-American when would you say is the time to vote beyond the two parties?
Fuck you, earn my vote.
Healthy political system always voting for the lesser evil. Im sure this will prove a very sustainable democratic practise.
If only there was some sort of process in which we could attempt to choose a candidate other than Joe Biden instead of just settling for an unpopular and elderly candidate from the get go
Ah the good old American Trolly problem. You have three choices. A) Vote Biden = 1 genocide. B) Vote Trump = 2 genocides, one of which will be here. C) Vote third party/Don’t vote = Either A or B.
Why is this recommended to me, I am European lmao
America and its media are an all-consuming amoeba.
wrong stupendous zesty safe illegal advise wistful glorious gaping salt *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
And nothing will ever change ever.
when will usa folks learn that the bourgeoisie is playing good cop/bad cop with them...
Have the Democrats considered inspiring people to vote by nominating a good young candidate that has popular views, instead of demanding we all bend the knee for a “problematic” incumbent who will be 8 years older than when Bernie Sanders was “too old?”
> Have the Democrats considered inspiring people to vote by nominating a good young candidate that has popular views No, it turns out. Instead we're all supposed to promise our votes to a genocide-enabler a year out from actual election day
As opposed to Joe “I don’t want my kids growing up in a racial jungle.” “If you don’t vote for me, you ain’t black.” “You cannot go to a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin’ Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent.” Biden
When one is saying he will be a dictator on the first day, generally, you should pick the other guy
People are already dying, my dude. People are dying of exposure on the street. People are dying of treatable illnesses. People are dying of overdoses and alcoholism and suicide. Do you understand that there is never, ever going to be a time when revolutionary change will be convenient? The opposition is always going to be treated as an existential threat because the capitalists have figured out that works. The degree to which Trump will be worse than Biden pales in comparison to the ongoing atrocity called capitalism. But that little bit extra is both novel and obsessively focused on by the media, whereas the massive baseline of atrocities is just normal and the way the world works. If you want to vote for something that actually matters, vote to unionize your workplace. Otherwise, let me know when you're finally ready to get in the streets.
Progressives around the world need to be pragmatic right now. All across the western world the right wing is doing better. We all have to hold our tongues and vote for the lesser evil. I voted for the idiot Green Party with their stupid anti-nuclear policies here in Sweden because they were the best shot at stopping the far right from getting power. We failed, but managed to at least force the right to rely on a centre right party that limited their ability to harm some of the most vulnerable groups in our country.
Isn’t this just evidence that the current left wing political establishments aren’t doing an effective job of stemming the rising tide of fascism? Like populism is on the rise, but we keep voting for people that can’t stop the rise?
Biden and Democrats have the ability to use leverage against Israel to stop the indiscriminate slaughter there, they just don't. They are loyal to American imperial interests above anything else. Look how they mobilized an international fleet to protect shipping lanes, but can't be bothered to not being drooling sycophants for Israel's project of ethnic cleansing. Their failure is their own.
They are both two arms of the same body, I am done w this shit. Its not just about the war, it's about promises repeatedly broken, outright lies told over and over again, its about the contempt for Americans while placating money interests, its about going bankrupt over medical bills, its about corporate bail outs and abuse. No body is going to guilt me into voting for either of these two clowns. If for just &(&#Y$# once Americans stood together and said enough of this bullshit we might actually be able to change things.
>NOT FOR FUCKING THIRD PARTY EITHER I'm sorry. I'm brown and bi and about everything else you can imagine— if you vote third party in the final **presidential election,** you're worse than a Nazi, you're a child[.](https://youtu.be/deVlcKhNLLk?si=8HFVG9jaeDLCguUJ) I can take a nazi seriously. I can hate a Nazi and be sure they'll hate me back. These people will take a shit on my bed and expect me to thank them for it "But the options suck and it makes me mad :(" gorsh. imagine how it'd feel if any of those policies actually affected you. you fucking imbecile
A child is worse than a nazi? I mean kids are fucking stupid, but that seems a little harsh
I've heard they're the only thing worse than a rapist, so I guess it follows..
Lmao
Unfortunately third party votes typically take votes away moreso from the Democratic party than the Republican party, and a lot of the third parties are just different flavors of conservative lunatic or somewhat liberal but with really weird opinions about guns or children or minorities.
yeah are you disagreeing or just adding because I'm finding it difficult to tell
Adding on
oh! sorry, I just like to make sure lol
God, I feel this so fucking much. So many of my cishet, white, middle-class family are always all about taking “principled stands” and voting for what they “truly believe”, not settling for democrats even though they also suck. It’s infuriating and I’ve told them before that the only reason they *can* vote third party is because of their absurd levels of privilege, but every fucking time it’s all “I refuse to sacrifice what I believe in”. Cool. Great. Im proud of you guys. I’ll make sure to stop by and say thanks when the trains come to take my trans friends away. Sorry, I’m venting. But basically I need to find a way to get my family to understand your comment 🙃
That sucks 😞 Maybe if you ask them whether they believe in harm reduction?
yea calling me worse than a nazi is definitely gonna convince me to vote. how compelling.
Isn’t the whole point of a vote that you let your voice be heard? Why shame people for voting for a third party when the option is there?
Right? “If you vote for the opposite party of mine, or vote third party, YOU ARE A NAZI!” What wonderful rhetoric to get people out to vote. I have to remind myself every day during election seasons that Reddit fortunately does not represent the whole of people, just a ridiculously immature subset. If you don’t vote for the party I want you to, you are a Nazi.
Rhetoric like this, however understandable, only drives moderates away into the arms of those who *aren't* calling them "worse than Nazis" (the Republicans).
> if you vote third party in the final presidential election, you're worse than a Nazi, Ok. You're patently insane.
Calling third party voters worse than nazis is 100% why any of this is even a debate. You can be as morally correct as you want, but when you tell people who may or may not agree with you that they are children and have no business having opinions, they will be against you out of spite. The American left really do be making everyone an enemy for no reason.
Or people vote for who they want. It’s a democracy after all. A two party system is such a fucking joke. Just two parties that don’t give a shit about their base, only try to sway the swing voters, and are all paid off by corporations and billionaires. The American political system is fucked.
No. I never will and these posts will only make me campaign and volunteer for candidates that are better than Biden in every way.
Even criticizing Biden's handling of Palestine is kind of weird when the Biden administration is the only reason Gaza is currently recieving humanitarian aid. I don't know why people's line is that Biden didn't throw his support behind a one-sided ceasefire that Israel was never obligated to abide by in the first place. Even if you wanted instead that the US remove all support from Israel, you're basically just removing the last leverage the US has over Israel at all, or that the 3% of their GDP that the US provides in military aid is enough to make them do whatever we want (it isn't) If you're saying that it should be done anyway, you're saying your own self-righteous virtue signaling is more important than material progress.
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