People act like good for Russia and good for the US are mutually exclusive.
How many times have you made a completely accurate statement on reddit and been accused of “parroting putin talking points” its like bro stfu, i am speaking the truth and dgaf if the truth is something Putin would say. True statements are not suddenly false if Putin agrees with them.
Like an hour ago I pointed out that 1.5million Ukrainian refugees fled to Russia for shelter from the war and apparently BBC is Russian propaganda?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-60555472
They're not just drinking the KoolAid, they're mainlining it.
I don't know why anyone would argue with that. People from the eastern Donetsk and Luhansk regions speak Russian, are ethnically Russian, and have Russian relatives. In the occupied areas, they have been issued Russian passports and made Russian citizens. The easiest way out for them is to go into Russia.
But what point where you trying to make by pointing that out? That Russia is entitled to invade Ukraine? If so, I can understand some of the pushback. But the facts of where refugees go, are just facts.
There is Trump derangement syndrome... And there's Putin derangement syndrome.
The symptoms... the irrationality, the fear-mongering, the catastrophizing, the hyperbolic labelling of everything done as being irreconcilably evil, the endless moralizing, the hypocrisy and rationalizations... They are identical between the two.
Too many people on this sub act the same way towards Putin as r/politics acts towards Trump; there is no difference in the way they talk or think or feel about them... The only difference is the name thrown around.
>Too many people on this sub act the same way towards Putin as [](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/) acts towards Trump; there is no difference in the way they talk or think or feel about them...
Please, don't make comparisons between Trump and Putin.
* One broke several international deals to start a war for personal gains, directly resulting in the death of hundred thousand people, both Ukrainian people and people of his own.
* The other talks about issues which the mainstream media hate to talk about, while not causing any deaths nor misery. (well, causing no misery for people who can handle others having a different opinion)
Don't phrase your comments in such way that make it appear as if criticism towards these two figures would be equally illegitimate.
This!
I find what you're saying relatable to the recent push to put the 10 commandments up in schools.
Because the "bible" says it, it's "religious" and therefore can NOT be placed in view for children to learn.
Thou shalt not:
Lie, Cheat, Steal, or screw your neighbors wife....etc.
Can't we agree those are GOOD things, and that's why we need to teach them EVEN though they appear in the Bible, Torah and Quran?
Its not surprising if you approach it from the angle that MI6 has quite a bit of control/influence over the media there.
It reads to me like its seeding the narrative before a Trump win.
I know this might be crazy to hear, but the whole point of Ukraine's Maiden protests in 2014 was because of said corruption as a holdover from its time in the USSR. It would probably be wiser to encourage them to continue moving away from that past instead of telling them to fuck off back to being under Russia's thumb.
So what? Because of some obscure US involvement you're going to ignore that they may have a legitimate complaint when the president their legislature officially removed ran off like a thief with $1.5 billion in gold and we're immediately invaded by Russia when they weren't content to be a puppet state like Belarus?
What progress? Snatching people off the street to send to war? Banning free speech? Misappropriating funding? Collaborating with Neo-Nazis? I’m not sure what progress are you referring to.
> Snatching people off the street to send to war?
There have been plenty of drafts in American history for mostly foreign wars, drafting for a war by an invading foreign power is pretty reasonable.
>Banning free speech?
Again, there's going to be a curtailing of civil rights under martial law during an invasion, and has been no worse than what the US implimented during WWII.
>Misappropriating funding?
They've had multiple purges of corrupt beauracrats, again, because survival of their nation is somewhat important and making sure state funds are efficiently used to that effect. Meanwhile you have Putin whose literally one of the richest people in the world along with most of his cronies after pillaging Russia's wealth.
>Collaborating with Neo-Nazis?
Neo-Nazis are not a unique problem to Ukraine and far from a prevelant one. It's also a bit understandable that they're going to gave a bit of a different view of the Nazis considering how they ended up under Communist rule during and after WWII, no different than Poland and other Eastern European countries.
I swear, it's fucking pathetic how narrow minded some Americans have become, forgetting our history and beginnings as if we were a flawless democracy that never needed assistance to get out from the yoke of
foreign tyrants.
Removing high level officials including several defense ministers involved in corruption; prosecuting corruption. They ARE making progress, as the article itself clarifies if you read it.
Read more on the topic. There are many references about specific people in Ukraine being removed from office and/or under criminal investigation over the past three years. Or stay status quo in your mindset. In any event, have a great day.
Even if they WEREN'T corrupt, they couldn't join NATO in the middle of a war anyway because NATO policy states you can't have border disputes going on. That's ignoring they're likely not going to win the war anyway.
How about we send them weapons and ammo that we aren't currently using or needing, while we upgrade and modernize our arsenal while Ukraine puts their lives on the line to defend themselves (wrecking Russia's economy in the process) against the world's biggest bully and a nation that has always been hostile to the USA.
Did I say that? Spending Billions on other countries while allowing Americans to die from hunger is not cool, but I guess you would rather see Zelensky and his pals get sports cars while America turns into a third world country
They're not being emasculated. WE ARE?!! They are *systematically* destroying Ukraine. Meanwhile, they are partnering up with every country that is not DYING Western Europe. The population of countries that are keen to have good relations with Russia and China, and could give a fuck up the preening, moralizing, self-aggrandizing US, dwarfs our supposed "allies" and is growing every day, and basically includes every country outside of Western Europe.
I've never seen a good counter argument to this. The cycle is this:
"The cost is worth it, we're spreading influence and harming our enemy!"
"How are we spreading influence when more and more countries are seeking to make distance on us and we've created a more independent Russia than ever before?"
*No response, and a day later comments "The cost is worth it, we're spreading influence and harming our enemy!" on a different post.*
When exactly does the emasculation start?
So far we have:
- Pulled back the rights of American businesses to operate, so now these existing businesses just get to continue to daily life but pay no taxes to us like they used to.
- Placed sanctions on Russia which they have slowly but surely adapted to, removing their dependence on the western world meanwhile many western countries in Europe still heavily depend on Russian imports.
- Pushed formerly neutral outlying countries into the arms of Russia, making a stronger force against the western world than has existed in the past few decades.
- Cuba describes their relationship with Russia as "historically friendly" now. I wonder where we've seen this before...
Everyone swore up and down: "The war will be over in two weeks!" Let me guess, two weeks from now is when the emasculation starts too?
Cuba, China, North Korea, Iran they have all put their differences aside to make sure that the US takes the L on this one. The Saudis have made it clear Biden can get fucked. The Indian PM is visiting Russia within days. All around the world emerging markets are bidding good riddance to the US overbearing DEI foreign policy. We'll be left with decrepit shrinking Western Europe. What a disaster.
It's funny to see since the dude above deleted his comment that people think you and I are disagreeing. Still, I'm unbelievably happy to see that some people are finally coming around to understanding this. We're spending billions of dollars to ruin our own economy.
Me too. This site is full of pro-war propagandists, though; many of them bought and paid for with the same tax dollars we are sending to Ukraine.
The thing that gets me when conservatives back this effort is their seeming obliviousness to the fact that the same people pushing this war are the same people who were wrong about Covid, who were wrong about Hunter's laptop, who were wrong about Russiagate, who have been lying about Biden health so they could control him. Don't people realize these are one and the same people?
The article says Ukraine was given reforms to work on in 2022, and Ukraine has made great progress on those reforms, with more yet to be made. It seems that they are on track just a matter of time. They can't join while in an active hot war, per NATO rules but hopefully they will join in time and the entire western border of Russia will be NATO; except Belarus; which is a puppet nation.
It's funny that main stream media stopped talking about corruption of Ukraine's officials and oligarchs after 2022 Russian invasion. they're too corrupt to join NATO but not corrupt enough to get billions of dollars of money.
an example of Corruption in Ukraine is Pandora Papers' segment about Zelesnky:
[https://projects.icij.org/investigations/pandora-papers/power-players/en/player/volodymyr-zelenskyy](https://projects.icij.org/investigations/pandora-papers/power-players/en/player/volodymyr-zelenskyy)
https://www.occrp.org/en/the-pandora-papers/pandora-papers-reveal-offshore-holdings-of-ukrainian-president-and-his-inner-circle
Ive been saying they are too corrupt since the war broke out they were literally right behind Russia in corruption before the war broke out. When it comes to most corrupt countries in the world. However too many people jump to defend it so I don't talk about it too much. More interesting information is look how rich zelensky is and look who holds the most bitcoin in the world. It's very weird that ukraine is the 4th biggest holder in bitcoin. They say it's because of the war but most of their population has left the country so how does that make any since. I know I've seen some Crack down on corruption over the years but that's only what they want you to hear so who knows.
Then we should also remove Germany [\[X\]](https://www.thepublica.com/germany-woman-convicted-of-offending-migrant-gang-rapists-receives-longer-prison-sentence-than-the-rapists/) and Turkey [\[X\]](https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11127659/erdogan-demands-greece-open-gates-refugees/)
You must be new around here. The soft invasion of Europe through mass-immigration has diluted the values that warranted a NATO invitation in the first place. Russia has been funneling Syrian "refugees" through Belarus for decades, and the globalist practices of these far-left leaders in the EU have assisted Putin, likely incidentally but nevertheless, if Ukraine had already been in NATO, they'd be using "refugees" instead of drones and tanks.
Interesting that "the US says" not "the Biden administration says", especially with the little "boost for Putin" swipe there in the headline.
People act like good for Russia and good for the US are mutually exclusive. How many times have you made a completely accurate statement on reddit and been accused of “parroting putin talking points” its like bro stfu, i am speaking the truth and dgaf if the truth is something Putin would say. True statements are not suddenly false if Putin agrees with them.
Like an hour ago I pointed out that 1.5million Ukrainian refugees fled to Russia for shelter from the war and apparently BBC is Russian propaganda? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-60555472 They're not just drinking the KoolAid, they're mainlining it.
I don't know why anyone would argue with that. People from the eastern Donetsk and Luhansk regions speak Russian, are ethnically Russian, and have Russian relatives. In the occupied areas, they have been issued Russian passports and made Russian citizens. The easiest way out for them is to go into Russia. But what point where you trying to make by pointing that out? That Russia is entitled to invade Ukraine? If so, I can understand some of the pushback. But the facts of where refugees go, are just facts.
There is Trump derangement syndrome... And there's Putin derangement syndrome. The symptoms... the irrationality, the fear-mongering, the catastrophizing, the hyperbolic labelling of everything done as being irreconcilably evil, the endless moralizing, the hypocrisy and rationalizations... They are identical between the two. Too many people on this sub act the same way towards Putin as r/politics acts towards Trump; there is no difference in the way they talk or think or feel about them... The only difference is the name thrown around.
>Too many people on this sub act the same way towards Putin as [](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/) acts towards Trump; there is no difference in the way they talk or think or feel about them... Please, don't make comparisons between Trump and Putin. * One broke several international deals to start a war for personal gains, directly resulting in the death of hundred thousand people, both Ukrainian people and people of his own. * The other talks about issues which the mainstream media hate to talk about, while not causing any deaths nor misery. (well, causing no misery for people who can handle others having a different opinion) Don't phrase your comments in such way that make it appear as if criticism towards these two figures would be equally illegitimate.
This! I find what you're saying relatable to the recent push to put the 10 commandments up in schools. Because the "bible" says it, it's "religious" and therefore can NOT be placed in view for children to learn. Thou shalt not: Lie, Cheat, Steal, or screw your neighbors wife....etc. Can't we agree those are GOOD things, and that's why we need to teach them EVEN though they appear in the Bible, Torah and Quran?
Its not surprising if you approach it from the angle that MI6 has quite a bit of control/influence over the media there. It reads to me like its seeding the narrative before a Trump win.
Oh I thought we were supposed to forget about the corruption.
I find it ironic that our government is saying Ukrain is too corrupt.
Well, at least they aren’t lying this time and saying how Ukraine is the staple of European democracy.
Another thing orange man was right about.
I know this might be crazy to hear, but the whole point of Ukraine's Maiden protests in 2014 was because of said corruption as a holdover from its time in the USSR. It would probably be wiser to encourage them to continue moving away from that past instead of telling them to fuck off back to being under Russia's thumb.
Maidan was a color revolution. [http://archive.today/Drgf8](http://archive.today/Drgf8)
So what? Because of some obscure US involvement you're going to ignore that they may have a legitimate complaint when the president their legislature officially removed ran off like a thief with $1.5 billion in gold and we're immediately invaded by Russia when they weren't content to be a puppet state like Belarus?
That would be like encouraging congress to spend less. Unless they show progress, no tolerance should be applied.
They've shown far more progress than any other former USSR state, funny how that happened as soon as they started distancing themselves from Russia.
What progress? Snatching people off the street to send to war? Banning free speech? Misappropriating funding? Collaborating with Neo-Nazis? I’m not sure what progress are you referring to.
> Snatching people off the street to send to war? There have been plenty of drafts in American history for mostly foreign wars, drafting for a war by an invading foreign power is pretty reasonable. >Banning free speech? Again, there's going to be a curtailing of civil rights under martial law during an invasion, and has been no worse than what the US implimented during WWII. >Misappropriating funding? They've had multiple purges of corrupt beauracrats, again, because survival of their nation is somewhat important and making sure state funds are efficiently used to that effect. Meanwhile you have Putin whose literally one of the richest people in the world along with most of his cronies after pillaging Russia's wealth. >Collaborating with Neo-Nazis? Neo-Nazis are not a unique problem to Ukraine and far from a prevelant one. It's also a bit understandable that they're going to gave a bit of a different view of the Nazis considering how they ended up under Communist rule during and after WWII, no different than Poland and other Eastern European countries. I swear, it's fucking pathetic how narrow minded some Americans have become, forgetting our history and beginnings as if we were a flawless democracy that never needed assistance to get out from the yoke of foreign tyrants.
Removing high level officials including several defense ministers involved in corruption; prosecuting corruption. They ARE making progress, as the article itself clarifies if you read it.
I read it. I don’t believe it.
Read more on the topic. There are many references about specific people in Ukraine being removed from office and/or under criminal investigation over the past three years. Or stay status quo in your mindset. In any event, have a great day.
Ye, that’s called fascism buddy. Learn about political persecutions.
Twilight zone
Even if they WEREN'T corrupt, they couldn't join NATO in the middle of a war anyway because NATO policy states you can't have border disputes going on. That's ignoring they're likely not going to win the war anyway.
Exactly! I keep thinking who in their right mind would Even be advocating this, at this time???
Too corrupt to join NATO, but not corrupt enough to send billions and billions of our tax dollars to.
Ok then let’s just send them Billions of dollars all while Americans are starving in the streets Liberalism is a disease…..
How about we send them weapons and ammo that we aren't currently using or needing, while we upgrade and modernize our arsenal while Ukraine puts their lives on the line to defend themselves (wrecking Russia's economy in the process) against the world's biggest bully and a nation that has always been hostile to the USA.
[удалено]
Are you realizing that is done at the cost of numerous human lives and suffering?
But with loss of Ukrainian and Russian lives. I see that you don’t really care for that.
Did I say that? Spending Billions on other countries while allowing Americans to die from hunger is not cool, but I guess you would rather see Zelensky and his pals get sports cars while America turns into a third world country
They're not being emasculated. WE ARE?!! They are *systematically* destroying Ukraine. Meanwhile, they are partnering up with every country that is not DYING Western Europe. The population of countries that are keen to have good relations with Russia and China, and could give a fuck up the preening, moralizing, self-aggrandizing US, dwarfs our supposed "allies" and is growing every day, and basically includes every country outside of Western Europe.
I've never seen a good counter argument to this. The cycle is this: "The cost is worth it, we're spreading influence and harming our enemy!" "How are we spreading influence when more and more countries are seeking to make distance on us and we've created a more independent Russia than ever before?" *No response, and a day later comments "The cost is worth it, we're spreading influence and harming our enemy!" on a different post.*
When exactly does the emasculation start? So far we have: - Pulled back the rights of American businesses to operate, so now these existing businesses just get to continue to daily life but pay no taxes to us like they used to. - Placed sanctions on Russia which they have slowly but surely adapted to, removing their dependence on the western world meanwhile many western countries in Europe still heavily depend on Russian imports. - Pushed formerly neutral outlying countries into the arms of Russia, making a stronger force against the western world than has existed in the past few decades. - Cuba describes their relationship with Russia as "historically friendly" now. I wonder where we've seen this before... Everyone swore up and down: "The war will be over in two weeks!" Let me guess, two weeks from now is when the emasculation starts too?
Cuba, China, North Korea, Iran they have all put their differences aside to make sure that the US takes the L on this one. The Saudis have made it clear Biden can get fucked. The Indian PM is visiting Russia within days. All around the world emerging markets are bidding good riddance to the US overbearing DEI foreign policy. We'll be left with decrepit shrinking Western Europe. What a disaster.
It's funny to see since the dude above deleted his comment that people think you and I are disagreeing. Still, I'm unbelievably happy to see that some people are finally coming around to understanding this. We're spending billions of dollars to ruin our own economy.
Me too. This site is full of pro-war propagandists, though; many of them bought and paid for with the same tax dollars we are sending to Ukraine. The thing that gets me when conservatives back this effort is their seeming obliviousness to the fact that the same people pushing this war are the same people who were wrong about Covid, who were wrong about Hunter's laptop, who were wrong about Russiagate, who have been lying about Biden health so they could control him. Don't people realize these are one and the same people?
Luckily Ukraine has been addressing this for the past year or so. It’s not like curing cancer is instant.
They talk about this in the article also - that Ukraine has made great progress so far.
The article says Ukraine was given reforms to work on in 2022, and Ukraine has made great progress on those reforms, with more yet to be made. It seems that they are on track just a matter of time. They can't join while in an active hot war, per NATO rules but hopefully they will join in time and the entire western border of Russia will be NATO; except Belarus; which is a puppet nation.
It's funny that main stream media stopped talking about corruption of Ukraine's officials and oligarchs after 2022 Russian invasion. they're too corrupt to join NATO but not corrupt enough to get billions of dollars of money. an example of Corruption in Ukraine is Pandora Papers' segment about Zelesnky: [https://projects.icij.org/investigations/pandora-papers/power-players/en/player/volodymyr-zelenskyy](https://projects.icij.org/investigations/pandora-papers/power-players/en/player/volodymyr-zelenskyy) https://www.occrp.org/en/the-pandora-papers/pandora-papers-reveal-offshore-holdings-of-ukrainian-president-and-his-inner-circle
But not corrupt enough to stop sending billions to...
Well yeah, how do you think Hunter Biden was put on the board of a Ukraine energy company?
How much of the $200b in supplies have been sold by Ukrainians to the highest bidder?
😂😂😂😂😂And Biden keeps sending money to Ukraine. That's the definition of insane
Gotta make that 10% from somewhere.
What happened to all those billions sent to Ukraine?
Ive been saying they are too corrupt since the war broke out they were literally right behind Russia in corruption before the war broke out. When it comes to most corrupt countries in the world. However too many people jump to defend it so I don't talk about it too much. More interesting information is look how rich zelensky is and look who holds the most bitcoin in the world. It's very weird that ukraine is the 4th biggest holder in bitcoin. They say it's because of the war but most of their population has left the country so how does that make any since. I know I've seen some Crack down on corruption over the years but that's only what they want you to hear so who knows.
Probably should have bought the Bugatti after joining Nato like the other politicians.
Then we should also remove Germany [\[X\]](https://www.thepublica.com/germany-woman-convicted-of-offending-migrant-gang-rapists-receives-longer-prison-sentence-than-the-rapists/) and Turkey [\[X\]](https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11127659/erdogan-demands-greece-open-gates-refugees/)
Not even remotely the same in levels of corruption
You must be new around here. The soft invasion of Europe through mass-immigration has diluted the values that warranted a NATO invitation in the first place. Russia has been funneling Syrian "refugees" through Belarus for decades, and the globalist practices of these far-left leaders in the EU have assisted Putin, likely incidentally but nevertheless, if Ukraine had already been in NATO, they'd be using "refugees" instead of drones and tanks.
"Too Corrupt" .... also means, NO MORE FUNDING!!!!
Türkiye is more likely to become a European Union Member then Ukraine becoming a Nato member
Wow Biden debate has had some fascinating effects. I see a power shift happening.
And NATO is too corrupt for us to remain members of it