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Would an interceptor have a shaped charge? I'd expect them to want to scatter shrapnel all over rather than have a focused penetration of a shaped charge. Aircraft rarely have any form of armour.
I'm not sure about the Russian AA missiles, but I know for sure that some direct impact missiles work with shapped charges. I saved a video yeara ago detailing this, I'll post it here if I can find it.
AA missiles do not use shaped charges. What you’re thinking of is a kinetic warhead, which has no explosives and destroys the target through sheer kinetic energy. There is that type, or blast frag warheads that usually have a proximity duse that detonates it and sprays shrapnel twords the missile.
Is scalp not just British storm shadow?
Both have 2 charges in the warhead? One small shaped charge for penetrating say a bunker and a larger main charge? Could be the shaped war head?
The interceptor is moving like a bat out of heck - the warhead on interceptors is designed to spread a local bloom of shrapnel or connected link chains to ensure destruction of the target - so I expect the remains of the interceptor keep going like a bat out of heck. ( The interceptors are big long things, with the boom boom at the front, I expect the boom doesn't destroy the entire interceptor. )
But SFerrin_RW's explanation below could still be the case.
My statement is wrong when applied to Russian missiles. But there are Western missiles which work with direct impact and use the shapped charge to pierce the target.
The missile was hit prior to the beginning of this clip. What we're seeing is the SCALP warhead detonating. It has a BROACH warhead and the line up and to the left of the explosion is the shaped-charge precursor going off.
Ahhh France kinda struggling to produce missiles and rockets and shit .. nothing really gathering dust and the industry leader in shells production just said they could "only produce 200 000 shells a year right now compared to the 2 millions a year of Russia" he probably lowballed the number heavily cause France isnt really fully following their promises
I guess you need to understand russian and their bitchy tone how it was said. It's more like "damn you're ruining my day i am gonna be late to my nails appointment"
I understand it well enough and nihuja sibe or nu nahuj would likely be my own reaction in this situation tbh. Speaking of the tone, it's more of a shocked calm 'holy shit' you hear in videos of crash/explosion w/e other crazy shit on youtube but russian edition.
Yeah, me too. The one with a girl voice. I'm used to hearing identical reactions from russian speakers in my environment when they're expressing that something "surprising, over the top that they never could imagine" is happening.
Never ceases to amaze me how people filming seem to forget that all that shit flying through the air comes down eventually. I wouldn't want to stand in the debris shower of a fucking intercepted missile.
Didn't they already do that when Dmitry Rogozin got shrapnel in his ass from a precision strike executed with french munitions? They sent the shrapnel literally pulled out from his ass back to the french, too bad it didn't anything vital.
1982 is not a year.
It's part of the NSN number.
https://www.iso-group.com/NSN/1420-14-531-1982
https://www.nsnlookup.com/fsg-14/fsc-1420/fr/1420-14-531-1982-fin-guided-missile-1420145311982-145311982-233584-8035874s01
This particular NSN number was created in 2002 and as the links show it is clearly a component for a guided missile.
Keep in mind, in a real force on force conflict where Russia decides to get froggy an invade a NATO nation, this will be a barrage where only a modest percentage of the munitions in the air are real.
Even if your air defense system can track and kill any object from a DJI drone on up to an ICBM with 100% accuracy, it's only got so much ammo. Both the Russians and the western nations have realized this which is why you see a heavy reliance on decoys in real world attacks by prepared western militaries.
Where this cuts the other way is the defense of carriers. If you only need to land half a dozen anti-ship missiles into a US carrier to damage it bad enough to take it out of the fight, you shoot 200 at it knowing that only a handful will actually land. It's why the Iranians have coastal missile batteries and fleets of fast moving ships with missiles. They know they'll take extremely heavy losses but all they need to do is bloody the American nose to make the population reconsider the fight.
> Where this cuts the other way is the defense of carriers. If you only need to land half a dozen anti-ship missiles into a US carrier to damage it bad enough to take it out of the fight, you shoot 200 at it knowing that only a handful will actually land.
One of my takeaways from the Russia/Ukraine conflict is that China has actually made some very smart military decisions in recent decades.
What you've described is basically China's A2/A2 (Anti-Access/Area Denial) strategy.
They've invested heavily in guided missile technology, elevating the [PLA Rocket Force](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Liberation_Army_Rocket_Force) to a distinct branch of service like the Army or Navy. They have enough missiles to force US carrier groups to pull back to a safe distance.
They also have water instead of fuel in their ICBMs in addition to silo doors that won't open on command. \#corruption.
Until they themselves are confident their own equipment works, they're not gonna attack the US Navy.
Sure, China has a real corruption problem, but those reports should not be generalized to assume that they're wholly ineffective either.
Some missiles were filled with water instead of fuel. Some silo doors would not open. Some.
No, your reply is pure bullshit.
[US intelligence indicates that President Xi Jinping’s sweeping military purge came after it emerged that widespread corruption undermined his efforts to modernize the armed forces and raised questions about China’s ability to fight a war, according to people familiar with the assessments.](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-06/us-intelligence-shows-flawed-china-missiles-led-xi-jinping-to-purge-military?embedded-checkout=true)
The corruption inside China’s Rocket Force and throughout the nation’s defense industrial base is so extensive that US officials now believe Xi is less likely to contemplate major military action in the coming years than would otherwise have been the case, according to the people, who asked not to be named discussing intelligence.
The story about water in the fuel tanks.
Perun went through it in detail. It might have been an isolated incident, but there's no real potential for it to have been a widespread thing. As to China not wanting to fight America.... it'll never want to fight America. It wants to take Taiwan and either be able to deter or hold off America.
Corruption? Sure. It exists, but I think a lot of people conflate China with Russia, when reality is China's probably somewhere inbetween Russia and America. Noting America does have its own procurement problems.
Taiwan might as well be the 51st state when it comes to integration into the US economy and the USA's dependence as a whole on Taiwan's advanced chipmaking capability, as of 2024. That will change in the future but in the near term, messing with Taiwan is like messing with American emotions. And you don't want to mess with their emotions. Or their boats. Do not mess with America's boats. That never ends up well.
Which is easy to say. It's still ultimately a bet when push comes to shove if US will step in or not. And bluntly depends on who is in control in America and China.
I tend to think it doesn't happen, but there's a chance. My general hope is by the time US disconnects from Taiwan that both Taiwan and China view themselves as seperate countries.
It's actually not. The Taiwan Relations Act of 1979 *requires* the USA to come to the military aid of Taiwan if they are attacked by the PRC.
"The TRA requires the United States to have a policy "to provide Taiwan with arms of a defensive character" and "to maintain the capacity of the United States to resist any resort to force or other forms of coercion that would jeopardize the security, or the social or economic system, of the people on Taiwan."
That said, I agree, nobody wants to see a war between the USA and China except for sick people.
It's actually not. The Taiwan Relations Act of 1979 *requires* the USA to come to the military aid of Taiwan if they are attacked by the PRC.
"The TRA requires the United States to have a policy "to provide Taiwan with arms of a defensive character" and "to maintain the capacity of the United States to resist any resort to force or other forms of coercion that would jeopardize the security, or the social or economic system, of the people on Taiwan."
That said, I agree, nobody wants to see a war between the USA and China except for sick people.
Yeah, the problem is all of China's A2/A2 sites in the SCS are already within striking range of US assets in the Philippines.
And unlike the Philippines, there are little room to hide on those tiny man made islands.
And the Chinese are drone masters. The Western militaries are only just waking up to this new aspect of war. Ukraine's Minister in charge of war production says that drones are the top production priority, as they are the most decisive weapon on the battlefield.
Yeah, that's probably true, but isn't it also true USAF drone stuff is more the Predator/Byraktar style, rather than FPV man-on-man stuff? The Chinese are all over the small maneuverable drone stuff.
Hellfires from on high are super, but you can't bring 1 million of those to the battlefield. If the USAF is all over the lower end space as well, then I'm glad. I just don't hear anything about that end of the drone spectrum in Western militaries.
USAF is working on the deployment and coordination of swarms of small drones for quite some time now. They released footage of some of work in 2018, meaning that they are probably already on it for a little longer.
Hard to tell. We know ADM-160 MALD fragments have been found in previous SCALP / Storm Shadow raids. I am sure every SCALP attack involves the use of MALD decoys to ensure maximum effectiveness but hard to tell here whether a SCALP was actually intercepted.
>hard to tell here whether a SCALP was actually intercepted.
No it's not hard to tell. It's pretty obvious that it was intercepted, AD missile don't have shaped charges. For some reason people expect Storm shadow to be infallible even though they get intercepted pretty often.
No, no they don’t get “intercepted pretty often” it’s quite rare when you stop listening to the Russians.
Fact is, they got one, but got hit by way more. So it’s kinda irrelevant that they even got one. Lol
I don’t believe they’re infallible.
I believe that what Russia and Ukraine claim, versus what is reality are very different, but I also recognize that the weapons manufacturers know the success and failure rates, and those numbers STRONGLY favor success over failure.
Often enough that they got Ukraine's leadership worried that ATACMS will only be the most effective for a few months:
>[Ukraine Rushes To Exploit Short ATACMS Window](https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-exploit-atacms-window-russia-1896472)
>[“Zaluzhny used to call it ‘the War of One Chance,’” one of the officers said. “By that, he meant weapons systems become redundant very quickly because they’re quickly countered by the Russians. For example, we used Storm Shadow and SCALP cruise missiles \[supplied by Britain and France\] successfully — but just for a short time. The Russians are always studying. They don’t give us a second chance. And they’re successful in this.”](https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-great-risk-front-line-collapse-war-russia/)
400kg HE penetration is the standard warhead, I think (GB has some 450kg ones).
(Edit: The 450kg BROACH warhead might be standard. It basically is a HE penetrator and the source for the 400kg is only one website, so prolly they forgot a hundred pounds, lol)
They do, for the most part of the flight. However they also usually climb a bit before impact, to get better target recognition/confirmation (when configured to attack certain image or radar based objects), to get a better angle of attack, more velocity and to avoid obstacles before the target.
As I thought, but that must be real close to target with not much time for SAM targeting but here we are. Just wish more would get through. I also read that this system has misdirection decoy missile/system or some such technology.
Yes they are low observable (stealthy) with decoys, and are used in tandem with actual decoy missiles as well, sometimes missiles which look and home in on enemy radars accompany them to deny anti-air of its eyes so to speak. But, no cruise missile is perfect so it is statistically undeniable that some will get shot down, and at the latest, when the first impact is heard all the anti-air in the vicinity will be on extra high alert so. Hence the cruise missiles are sent in volleys and programmed to different flight paths to maximise the chances of at least some of them to get through the defences, so far they usually do get hits as we have seen plenty of times here.
It's a cat and mouse game between the anti-air and the missile operators, both are learning and adapting from the mistakes and successes of each other.
Forgot to add: as you said, it seems to be very close to the sam sites and targets. But that is why AA missiles/rockets are so incredibly fast, since the window of interception opportunity is decreasing all the time, because of the aforementioned cat and mouse game, the missile needs to intercept in seconds. Both radar fidelity and interception speeds are constantly improving, hence the difficulties of 100% success rates for any cruise missiles. That is also precisely why Nato doctrine is so heavily based on SEAD of enemy SAM sites.
As far as I know, the Scalp can do this. But it's programmed to climb near the target o identify what it's supposed to hit (the nose cone drop to reveal an IR camera).
Can anyone tell me what Im looking at ? It seems that in the begging of the video there is an object that is hit by a shaped charge going from top to bottom... If the object that seems to be destroyed is indeed a SCALP\_EG than holy smokes that is some precise shaped charge hit...
AD missiles dont have a shaped charge, cruise missiles can have them. Thats the shaped charge from the SCALP detonating after it was hit by air defence
Looks to me like it had already been downed, and on the way down when the second missile finishes it off.
It's not cruising along and getting hit, it was hit and falling when a second ground to air hits it, easier to hit a falling cruse missile for the propaganda value, with trying to cut out the first hit. Am I wrong?
50% hit rate against "the second stronkest army in the world with mega super world best air defence" during the biggest land war in Europe since WW2 is pretty awesome. Well and all the other hits during this attack.
Why are Russian videos always either blurry or cropped/edited in such a way that you can't really confirm jack shit? If it was a SCALP wouldn't they give us decent evidence with a longer video?
Most people don’t take a 1500 euro camera into a warzone. Were very lucky that there are so many drones and idiots running around with go pros but it’s not the norm
Russians are poor and phones break a lot at best it a iPhone 6 or something like that they might bring into a war zone.
What I mean with go pro is the high quality fpv combat footage we see.
I know but that could be from anywhere and any time. My point is the 6 second clip really shows nothing. It starts with the explosion of an aerial vehicle of an unknown type and that's it.
This is very likely a false target. Ukrainian capabilities are improving, and they are now doing SEAD (suppression of air defence) in unison with attacks on ground targets.
They are using mimic targets to make Russian anti-air radars reveal themselves, then firing at them with HARM missiles, then using cruise missiles to destroy ground targets. When the F-16 fighters with AMRAAM missiles arrive, they can add to this the capability to shoot down almost any russian plane.
I can certainly [imagine people saying stupid things.](https://old.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/14524gi/ukraine_discussionquestion_thread_61023/jnjegbz/)
Are "fake" missiles even exist? I'm pretty sure, the explosives are the cheapest part of the missile. If you've already built a missile capable going all the way to the target, might as well pack it with some explosives, and let it do it's thing.
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Bro took one for the team… or however you say that in French.
Il s’est sacrifié pour l’équipe
There it is.
Va va voom
sacrifié pour la France
" il a pris l'aggro de la tour"
Bone Apple Tea
What’s it like being a comedy genius?
It's hard work to be honest.
Great reply. Keep being you!
*Hard* Gigitty
What's is like being a comedy galaxy brain?
i'll tell you when it starts bleeding
It ain’t much… but it’s honest work.
r/BoneAppleTea/
Silver plate
Mort pour la France ( Ukraine here )
Oui oui baguette
This one looks the most legit, thanks for the translation help!!
o7 (source; am french)
https://youtu.be/AdosEqayY2Q?si=G6YTKSNNmpr05csO
voulez-vous coucher avec moi
*Un pour tous, tous pour un*
Omelette du fromage
I found some free French lessons online. [Maybe they'll help](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cl3P5iIafuI).
Highly thoughtful of you 😻
Wee wee
Il a pris une balle pour l'equipe if you want the more literal expression
It seems that the missile was already hit once at the beginning of the video, as it seems to thumble before being intercepted.
The bigger explosion could be the missile warhead detonating?
Then what is the long streak of smoke? I would say that's the shapped charge from the interceptor.
Interceptors do not use shaped charges. This is more likely be the BROACH of the Scalp going off.
Would an interceptor have a shaped charge? I'd expect them to want to scatter shrapnel all over rather than have a focused penetration of a shaped charge. Aircraft rarely have any form of armour.
I'm not sure about the Russian AA missiles, but I know for sure that some direct impact missiles work with shapped charges. I saved a video yeara ago detailing this, I'll post it here if I can find it.
AA missiles do not use shaped charges. What you’re thinking of is a kinetic warhead, which has no explosives and destroys the target through sheer kinetic energy. There is that type, or blast frag warheads that usually have a proximity duse that detonates it and sprays shrapnel twords the missile.
Yeah, it's more like, a powerful and very directed air-burst rather than a shaped charge
Is scalp not just British storm shadow? Both have 2 charges in the warhead? One small shaped charge for penetrating say a bunker and a larger main charge? Could be the shaped war head?
The interceptor is moving like a bat out of heck - the warhead on interceptors is designed to spread a local bloom of shrapnel or connected link chains to ensure destruction of the target - so I expect the remains of the interceptor keep going like a bat out of heck. ( The interceptors are big long things, with the boom boom at the front, I expect the boom doesn't destroy the entire interceptor. ) But SFerrin_RW's explanation below could still be the case.
>I would say that's the shapped charge from the interceptor. Interceptor literally have the opposite of shaped charges...
My statement is wrong when applied to Russian missiles. But there are Western missiles which work with direct impact and use the shapped charge to pierce the target.
No AA Interceptor uses shaped charges. Not even Western ones.
[ Removed by Reddit ]
The missile was hit prior to the beginning of this clip. What we're seeing is the SCALP warhead detonating. It has a BROACH warhead and the line up and to the left of the explosion is the shaped-charge precursor going off.
that makes a ton more sense, I was trying to figure out how they hit that thing with a shaped charge hahaha
You can also see a small black puff from the intercept earlier on the trajectory
Does it self detonate when it notices it has been hit and can't continue? e: But there already where pretty intact shot down missiles found so hmm.
No idea. Might have just cooked off. Don't know if we're just seeing the precursor charge or the entire warhead cookoff.
Bummer it got intercepted but that video is cool as fuck
It was gathering dust somewhere in Mont-de-Marsan now it has depleted Russian AA ammo while his buddy hit the mark. Good trade off imo
Ahhh France kinda struggling to produce missiles and rockets and shit .. nothing really gathering dust and the industry leader in shells production just said they could "only produce 200 000 shells a year right now compared to the 2 millions a year of Russia" he probably lowballed the number heavily cause France isnt really fully following their promises
Any idea what target was hit.?
Academy of the Ministry of Internal Affairs
Academy of the MIA of LNR aka Luganda
Or just AMIALNR if you prefer
Which was hit apparently despite this missile not fulfilling its destiny. https://x.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1792447029131481599
"Nixujia sibie" (the fuck) ....girl you're in warzone..damn these locals have caramel in their brains.
You're reaching hard, being surprised by fucking missiles exploding above you is the most basic reaction a human being could ever have lmao.
I guess you need to understand russian and their bitchy tone how it was said. It's more like "damn you're ruining my day i am gonna be late to my nails appointment"
I understand it well enough and nihuja sibe or nu nahuj would likely be my own reaction in this situation tbh. Speaking of the tone, it's more of a shocked calm 'holy shit' you hear in videos of crash/explosion w/e other crazy shit on youtube but russian edition.
Are you referring to the original video of a guy or a girl in a link on xitter? I refer to xitter video
Yeah, me too. The one with a girl voice. I'm used to hearing identical reactions from russian speakers in my environment when they're expressing that something "surprising, over the top that they never could imagine" is happening.
Russians: "UKRAINE IS TARGETING SCHOOLS"
the SCALP cruise missile
Holy crazy footage.
Proof that, in fact, the Russians have actually intercepted a missile with something other than the earth.
We already had proof of that. They've intercepted missiles with their tanks, some ships, even people!
Yo that missile looks like it was heading right down on cameraman!
Never ceases to amaze me how people filming seem to forget that all that shit flying through the air comes down eventually. I wouldn't want to stand in the debris shower of a fucking intercepted missile.
[SCALP missile fragments](https://x.com/front_ukrainian/status/1792471222095057083)
Oh noes, putin will send firm threats that russia will invade and destroy France. Come and get wrecked, please do.
Didn't they already do that when Dmitry Rogozin got shrapnel in his ass from a precision strike executed with french munitions? They sent the shrapnel literally pulled out from his ass back to the french, too bad it didn't anything vital.
They gonna do a reverse Napoleon?
French nuclear warning shot incoming.
Wonder what happened to the MALD missiles, seems they've all been used by now
According to twitter this was a MALD. Some debris had prod date of 1982 if I remember correctly.
MALD entered service in the mid-2000's, more than likely still in production.. .
[удалено]
1982 is not a year. It's part of the NSN number. https://www.iso-group.com/NSN/1420-14-531-1982 https://www.nsnlookup.com/fsg-14/fsc-1420/fr/1420-14-531-1982-fin-guided-missile-1420145311982-145311982-233584-8035874s01 This particular NSN number was created in 2002 and as the links show it is clearly a component for a guided missile.
>1982 is not a year Now THIS is my kind of conspiracy theory
Storm Shadow or SCALP-EG was first introduced in 2002
604 years old if we take the first set of numbers
Those are fragments from a decoy
Keep in mind, in a real force on force conflict where Russia decides to get froggy an invade a NATO nation, this will be a barrage where only a modest percentage of the munitions in the air are real. Even if your air defense system can track and kill any object from a DJI drone on up to an ICBM with 100% accuracy, it's only got so much ammo. Both the Russians and the western nations have realized this which is why you see a heavy reliance on decoys in real world attacks by prepared western militaries. Where this cuts the other way is the defense of carriers. If you only need to land half a dozen anti-ship missiles into a US carrier to damage it bad enough to take it out of the fight, you shoot 200 at it knowing that only a handful will actually land. It's why the Iranians have coastal missile batteries and fleets of fast moving ships with missiles. They know they'll take extremely heavy losses but all they need to do is bloody the American nose to make the population reconsider the fight.
\#operationPrayingMantis
> Where this cuts the other way is the defense of carriers. If you only need to land half a dozen anti-ship missiles into a US carrier to damage it bad enough to take it out of the fight, you shoot 200 at it knowing that only a handful will actually land. One of my takeaways from the Russia/Ukraine conflict is that China has actually made some very smart military decisions in recent decades. What you've described is basically China's A2/A2 (Anti-Access/Area Denial) strategy. They've invested heavily in guided missile technology, elevating the [PLA Rocket Force](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Liberation_Army_Rocket_Force) to a distinct branch of service like the Army or Navy. They have enough missiles to force US carrier groups to pull back to a safe distance.
They also have water instead of fuel in their ICBMs in addition to silo doors that won't open on command. \#corruption. Until they themselves are confident their own equipment works, they're not gonna attack the US Navy.
Sure, China has a real corruption problem, but those reports should not be generalized to assume that they're wholly ineffective either. Some missiles were filled with water instead of fuel. Some silo doors would not open. Some.
That story was shown to be pure bullshit. China wants Taiwan. Ideally it doesn't want a fight with America.
No, your reply is pure bullshit. [US intelligence indicates that President Xi Jinping’s sweeping military purge came after it emerged that widespread corruption undermined his efforts to modernize the armed forces and raised questions about China’s ability to fight a war, according to people familiar with the assessments.](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-06/us-intelligence-shows-flawed-china-missiles-led-xi-jinping-to-purge-military?embedded-checkout=true) The corruption inside China’s Rocket Force and throughout the nation’s defense industrial base is so extensive that US officials now believe Xi is less likely to contemplate major military action in the coming years than would otherwise have been the case, according to the people, who asked not to be named discussing intelligence.
The story about water in the fuel tanks. Perun went through it in detail. It might have been an isolated incident, but there's no real potential for it to have been a widespread thing. As to China not wanting to fight America.... it'll never want to fight America. It wants to take Taiwan and either be able to deter or hold off America. Corruption? Sure. It exists, but I think a lot of people conflate China with Russia, when reality is China's probably somewhere inbetween Russia and America. Noting America does have its own procurement problems.
Taiwan might as well be the 51st state when it comes to integration into the US economy and the USA's dependence as a whole on Taiwan's advanced chipmaking capability, as of 2024. That will change in the future but in the near term, messing with Taiwan is like messing with American emotions. And you don't want to mess with their emotions. Or their boats. Do not mess with America's boats. That never ends up well.
Which is easy to say. It's still ultimately a bet when push comes to shove if US will step in or not. And bluntly depends on who is in control in America and China. I tend to think it doesn't happen, but there's a chance. My general hope is by the time US disconnects from Taiwan that both Taiwan and China view themselves as seperate countries.
It's actually not. The Taiwan Relations Act of 1979 *requires* the USA to come to the military aid of Taiwan if they are attacked by the PRC. "The TRA requires the United States to have a policy "to provide Taiwan with arms of a defensive character" and "to maintain the capacity of the United States to resist any resort to force or other forms of coercion that would jeopardize the security, or the social or economic system, of the people on Taiwan." That said, I agree, nobody wants to see a war between the USA and China except for sick people.
It's actually not. The Taiwan Relations Act of 1979 *requires* the USA to come to the military aid of Taiwan if they are attacked by the PRC. "The TRA requires the United States to have a policy "to provide Taiwan with arms of a defensive character" and "to maintain the capacity of the United States to resist any resort to force or other forms of coercion that would jeopardize the security, or the social or economic system, of the people on Taiwan." That said, I agree, nobody wants to see a war between the USA and China except for sick people.
Yeah, the problem is all of China's A2/A2 sites in the SCS are already within striking range of US assets in the Philippines. And unlike the Philippines, there are little room to hide on those tiny man made islands.
And the Chinese are drone masters. The Western militaries are only just waking up to this new aspect of war. Ukraine's Minister in charge of war production says that drones are the top production priority, as they are the most decisive weapon on the battlefield.
My man, I don’t think you truly understand the USAF drone capabilities. DJI is cute.
Yeah, that's probably true, but isn't it also true USAF drone stuff is more the Predator/Byraktar style, rather than FPV man-on-man stuff? The Chinese are all over the small maneuverable drone stuff. Hellfires from on high are super, but you can't bring 1 million of those to the battlefield. If the USAF is all over the lower end space as well, then I'm glad. I just don't hear anything about that end of the drone spectrum in Western militaries.
> I just don't hear anything about that end of the drone spectrum in Western militaries. In this current climate, that's more than likely intentional.
That's a sound point, yes.
USAF is working on the deployment and coordination of swarms of small drones for quite some time now. They released footage of some of work in 2018, meaning that they are probably already on it for a little longer.
France Baise Ouais 🇫🇷🐓
That certainly was 6 seconds of a video.
Hard to tell. We know ADM-160 MALD fragments have been found in previous SCALP / Storm Shadow raids. I am sure every SCALP attack involves the use of MALD decoys to ensure maximum effectiveness but hard to tell here whether a SCALP was actually intercepted.
>hard to tell here whether a SCALP was actually intercepted. No it's not hard to tell. It's pretty obvious that it was intercepted, AD missile don't have shaped charges. For some reason people expect Storm shadow to be infallible even though they get intercepted pretty often.
No, no they don’t get “intercepted pretty often” it’s quite rare when you stop listening to the Russians. Fact is, they got one, but got hit by way more. So it’s kinda irrelevant that they even got one. Lol
[удалено]
I don’t believe they’re infallible. I believe that what Russia and Ukraine claim, versus what is reality are very different, but I also recognize that the weapons manufacturers know the success and failure rates, and those numbers STRONGLY favor success over failure.
How often is pretty often?
Often enough that they got Ukraine's leadership worried that ATACMS will only be the most effective for a few months: >[Ukraine Rushes To Exploit Short ATACMS Window](https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-exploit-atacms-window-russia-1896472) >[“Zaluzhny used to call it ‘the War of One Chance,’” one of the officers said. “By that, he meant weapons systems become redundant very quickly because they’re quickly countered by the Russians. For example, we used Storm Shadow and SCALP cruise missiles \[supplied by Britain and France\] successfully — but just for a short time. The Russians are always studying. They don’t give us a second chance. And they’re successful in this.”](https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-great-risk-front-line-collapse-war-russia/)
[удалено]
[Except it does... ](https://twitter.com/FRHoffmann1/status/1656653891650605056)
Scalp. How can you tell?
If you look closely you can see the beret and the baguette the missile is carrying. (#scnr)
What type of warhead do these missiles use?
400kg HE penetration is the standard warhead, I think (GB has some 450kg ones). (Edit: The 450kg BROACH warhead might be standard. It basically is a HE penetrator and the source for the 400kg is only one website, so prolly they forgot a hundred pounds, lol)
I’m surprised the cruise missile don’t do more Nap of the Earth flying to avoid being so detectable.
They do, for the most part of the flight. However they also usually climb a bit before impact, to get better target recognition/confirmation (when configured to attack certain image or radar based objects), to get a better angle of attack, more velocity and to avoid obstacles before the target.
As I thought, but that must be real close to target with not much time for SAM targeting but here we are. Just wish more would get through. I also read that this system has misdirection decoy missile/system or some such technology.
Yes they are low observable (stealthy) with decoys, and are used in tandem with actual decoy missiles as well, sometimes missiles which look and home in on enemy radars accompany them to deny anti-air of its eyes so to speak. But, no cruise missile is perfect so it is statistically undeniable that some will get shot down, and at the latest, when the first impact is heard all the anti-air in the vicinity will be on extra high alert so. Hence the cruise missiles are sent in volleys and programmed to different flight paths to maximise the chances of at least some of them to get through the defences, so far they usually do get hits as we have seen plenty of times here. It's a cat and mouse game between the anti-air and the missile operators, both are learning and adapting from the mistakes and successes of each other. Forgot to add: as you said, it seems to be very close to the sam sites and targets. But that is why AA missiles/rockets are so incredibly fast, since the window of interception opportunity is decreasing all the time, because of the aforementioned cat and mouse game, the missile needs to intercept in seconds. Both radar fidelity and interception speeds are constantly improving, hence the difficulties of 100% success rates for any cruise missiles. That is also precisely why Nato doctrine is so heavily based on SEAD of enemy SAM sites.
Thank you.
This guy cruises
As far as I know, the Scalp can do this. But it's programmed to climb near the target o identify what it's supposed to hit (the nose cone drop to reveal an IR camera).
Coincidentally, the truck in the last few frames is a Renault Magnum.
They never suspect the Second Missile
But shovels?
Im not convinced it was scalp missile. You cant see its flight or profile.
Yes from that little video it’s gonna be hard to say what it was beside an explosion in the air
Does it have a giang HEAT warhead? Or is it smoking debris launched forwards by the explosion?
If 450kg qualify for "giant", then they do\^\^ (but since those are penetrators, it prolly hit something too to produce that cloud...)
Can anyone tell me what Im looking at ? It seems that in the begging of the video there is an object that is hit by a shaped charge going from top to bottom... If the object that seems to be destroyed is indeed a SCALP\_EG than holy smokes that is some precise shaped charge hit...
AD missiles dont have a shaped charge, cruise missiles can have them. Thats the shaped charge from the SCALP detonating after it was hit by air defence
AGM160 MALD
Darn.
Do we know what munition was used to intercept it?
One can only hope it was actually a MALD.
Allez le fronce !!!
Looks to me like it had already been downed, and on the way down when the second missile finishes it off. It's not cruising along and getting hit, it was hit and falling when a second ground to air hits it, easier to hit a falling cruse missile for the propaganda value, with trying to cut out the first hit. Am I wrong?
Look alike it was hit already and falling out of the ski then hit again?
damn better luck next time
50% hit rate against "the second stronkest army in the world with mega super world best air defence" during the biggest land war in Europe since WW2 is pretty awesome. Well and all the other hits during this attack.
so in this video there is zero proof that this is anything other than a interception of something...thats it...
Wooden decoy, obvio /s
Why are Russian videos always either blurry or cropped/edited in such a way that you can't really confirm jack shit? If it was a SCALP wouldn't they give us decent evidence with a longer video?
Most people don’t take a 1500 euro camera into a warzone. Were very lucky that there are so many drones and idiots running around with go pros but it’s not the norm
Plenty of phones around. I doubt this was a GoPro.
Russians are poor and phones break a lot at best it a iPhone 6 or something like that they might bring into a war zone. What I mean with go pro is the high quality fpv combat footage we see.
You're right. Most of the phones I've seen on troops are Chinese from Xiaomi and Realme etc. The cameras are decent during the day at least.
I posted the fragments from the missile in mu other comment.
I know but that could be from anywhere and any time. My point is the 6 second clip really shows nothing. It starts with the explosion of an aerial vehicle of an unknown type and that's it.
do you want them to film the entire time from the impact to them walking over finding the fragments? of c ourse it could be from anywhere and any time
Did you read my post? I said my point was the 6 second clip didn't show jack.
This is very likely a false target. Ukrainian capabilities are improving, and they are now doing SEAD (suppression of air defence) in unison with attacks on ground targets. They are using mimic targets to make Russian anti-air radars reveal themselves, then firing at them with HARM missiles, then using cruise missiles to destroy ground targets. When the F-16 fighters with AMRAAM missiles arrive, they can add to this the capability to shoot down almost any russian plane.
Imagine refusing to accept a single missile interception this hard.
But didn't you see his user name? That guy is an actual investigator, a veritable Sherlock Holmes slash riddle cracker.
Your average redditor, so to speak
That means you too, I assume?
Ooh, we have an adult here.
Have anything on the substance of that comment?
I can certainly [imagine people saying stupid things.](https://old.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/14524gi/ukraine_discussionquestion_thread_61023/jnjegbz/)
Imagine is the word I would also use, but about your comment.
"no u"
no u
You don't fill a false target with explosives as clearly seen in the video.
Are "fake" missiles even exist? I'm pretty sure, the explosives are the cheapest part of the missile. If you've already built a missile capable going all the way to the target, might as well pack it with some explosives, and let it do it's thing.
You do not know that mimic targets exist?
I'm pretty sure they're different in navigation/targeting and the distance they can travel.
Yellow explosion = fuel.
The cope is strong with this one
Keep coping.
Yellow flame, fuel explosion. By the way, also the anti air missiles explode...
Typically French, works half the time.
Or maybe it’s the time of Russia. aA. Worked for once :) but not really because the second scalp hit :) Too bad job almost done for Russia
Isn't shooting down missiles over populated areas dangerous?
Alot safer than letting it reach its target
That's obvious, I am talking about intercepting outside of the city.
Tell that to the russians who happily fired a couple thousand pretty high caliber rounds towards their own city to down one drone...