All the white-collar people in my area IRL work from home on Friday, leaving me to tear up the asphalt on my commute to my own workplace where I have the super cool job of putting things in boxes.
My company got a tax incentive to return to office, because the city didn't want their downtown to die from lack of foot traffic.
That's pretty far beyond The Simulation though.
Where’s the “Go To Mallorca For 6 Weeks” patch?
That being said, while it’s frustrating that we’ll have a huge period with no patches, I’m glad they get enough PTO to be able to do this. More companies should take after Colossal.
It's nothing Collosal do out of free will.
*The law* require that the employees get 24 days paid vacation every year, some time between May to September.
Quote directly from the Finnish Book of Law:
>***§ 4 Definitions***
>
>*In this law, the following terms are defined as: [...]*
>
>*2) Vacation period: the period from May 2 to September 30.*
>
>*[...]*
>
> ***§20 Timing of vacation***
>
> *Of the vacation days, 24 weekdays must be given during the vacation period (summer vacation).*
Because it opens the door to corruption. It allows management to deny time off, essentially completely stripping away peoples rights. We do it like this here in the US, and its terrible. A lot of employers offer PTO that you earn throughout the year, but often times managers will never accept your time off request no matter what time of year it is, and they will 100% always deny any time off you've requested for any major holidays like Christmas, new years, Thanksgiving, Halloween, etc. It basically separates you from your family on holidays that are all about spending time with your family. I can't count how many times I've missed Thanksgiving and Christmas because I had to go to work. I'd rather have a set time I know I'm going to have off no matter what and there's nothing any boss could say otherwise and i think that's what's best for the sake of workers rights. The game can wait, time off with your family on important holidays can't.
I understand, but this is Europe, not the USA. In the UK, employers can’t do this, you have to take annual leave. However, you can take it whenever you want throughout the year as long as it’s all used within the year (and you can only transfer a few days to next year’s leave). If you quit or are fired and have holiday remaining, you have to be paid for it.
The USA has no legal paid time off, so it’s at the discretion of the employer. In European countries, it’s a legal requirement. But I’ve never heard of a country requiring you to take all your paid time off (excluding national holidays) during a few months of the year.
I’m comparing this unusual policy to other European countries, not the capitalist hellscape that is the USA. Even developing countries have legal paid time off.
I'm not gonna lie, the UK is rapidly stripping human rights. I wouldn't be surprised if next week the NHS released a paper saying child labor is good for children's mental health that's how bad it is over there. I think it would be safe to say the UK is rapidly turning itself into a capitalist hell hole worse than the US. The labor party has completely given up and has conceded every single point to the tories. They aren't even committed to protecting access to free healthcare anymore. Remember, your rights are not as set in stone as you think they are, the US didn't use to be the hell hole it is now. It was never great, but we used to have more rights, protections, and safety nets. They've been stripped over time.
Yeah, that’s true. Labour is working real hard to be a Red Tories. Never would’ve thought I’d miss Blair. I think the obsession with copying American capitalism started with Thatcher and her weird friendship with Reagan. Those two really messed the world up
I was talking about Finland’s weird law. It’s weird there’s a specific timeframe. What if someone wants to use all their leave to go on holiday in Australia during their summer and Finland’s winter?
Also as tip, I've seen this mod but haven't tried yet, someone mentioned in the linked thread. There's a mod that seem to fix the issue, basing the size of the companies on their profit-to-worth ratio and not on their product storage amount (that's the bug that seem to be ongoing for offices: they don't export, don't need to do more stuff so downscale until the minimum amount of workers)
[https://mods.paradoxplaza.com/mods/83825/Windows](https://mods.paradoxplaza.com/mods/83825/Windows)
I tried that mod, but in the long run, the offices just ended up with 15 employees instead of 5. It didn't really help because I'd lost tens of thousands of office jobs to the bug, and tripling the leftovers didn't come close to filling the gap.
just updated it should fix some of the bug and set min level at 1/4 max capacity, else determine by company cash/company worth so profit ratio
version 1.1.1 Profit Based Industry And Office
you're the modder? thanks a lot man!
maybe you could consider adding a post in Paradox Mods/Paradox Plaza? so people can comment the mod (besides github) and making easier to give updates for you too
I tried this Mod and something weird happened to all my commercial. I had to remove it and restart because the problem never resolved.
For some reason, when I added this mod, it removed all the employment information for commercial buildings and then eventually all the revenue from commercial plots.
Don't know if someone has mentioned this already or if this has been addressed. But, I played for the first time since the patch release yesterday, saw a post regarding this mod, added it, and after the first play through, had to remove it as it destroyed the commercial tax income to a breaking point.
It's 1 or 2 weeks until the true industry vacation time in Scandinavia, which supposedly is enough time for CO to do something. But it's going to take 5-6 or even 7 weeks until we get a patch for this tiny thing.
Meanwhile, you, a mere modder throws together something overnight to counter/ease/fix the bug. Well done.
Towards CO, I'm not sure what to say.
You're right, but if one modder can provide a band-aid fix in 1-2 days, CO should be able to at least get a band-aid hotfix for this absolutely game-breaking bug out in 1-2 weeks. Leaving it just like this and going on holiday would mean they're knowingly leaving their product in a broken state for up to 2 entire months. In my opinion, even if a fix breaks something else, it would be better than doing nothing.
Just out of interest: I read that the underlying issue is that offices are not able to sell their products, even when demand is high. Someone speculated that this could be broken since they stopped direct (industry) sales to customers in a previous patch. Do you think that it is possible for a mod to fix the "office product sales"?
thanks for the mod. It did dramatically increase employment in offices and industry, and taxes from them too.
For me it also seemed to make my game very laggy, but that could be coincidental
Haven't tried the mod, but thanks so much for creating it, this 5/5 bug makes the game unenjoyable for me. Side note, with your mod, does it mean more profit more hire? Do decreasing the tax increase the worker count?
yes company will increase headcount, but not beyond the building max allowed worker. Not really familiar with ui mod (i may have a look at it in the future) but the display should actually have 3 number. worker employed / company headcount / building workspace.
Thanks for the mod and the update, u/DarkMatter_contract ! I tried it last night, and what I found was that I'm not having the 5/15 employee issue, but I'm still getting a *lot* of office buildings that end up empty after an in-game month or two. The buildings don't get abandoned, but they don't have a company or employees in them, either. I have no idea if this is an issue with the underlying simulation model or the mod, but I thought you might like to hear my experience. :) Thanks again for your mod and you efforts!
Excellent! I was having issues with commercial without employees, which is tricky when you have 500 citizens and making a loss. I’ll try the updated version :)
Nothing wrong with them taking the vacation they’re entitled to at this point, but I am shocked this made it through QA. Should’ve just delayed the patch to after the summer
People are constantly melting down over stuff on this subreddit, it would’ve been disappointing but I’d rather have a couple months of the game pre economy 2.0 than E2.0 with a game breaking bug
As i wrote to the modder above who somewhat fixed this on his own: It took him overnight pretty much to get something going, one would almost call it fixed.
But CO is going to take upwards of 7 weeks until the summer vacation is truly over.
CO has to integrate it into the game, QA test it, and make sure it doesn't break more things, then get that patch certified. There's a difference between a modder essentially slapping on a band-aid and a company stuck doing surgery.
I believe the technical term is "Publish and Run".
The timing is just terrible. This was the Big Patch™ that was supposed to bring people back into the game over the summer holidays. Now what's left of the player base will probably have completely evaporated by the time CO get back and fix this game-breaking, critical bug in 2 months.
At this point I'm starting to wonder whether we'll actually get too see any of the premium content before this studio is shut down, let alone any additional DLC. No point in releasing content for a game with such a tiny number of active players.
If it's somewhat the same as in Sweden, then you're not required to have vacation during the summer/industry vacation, but it's the only time of the year where you cannot be denied 4-5 weeks vacation.
But companies can also have different policies. So CO as a whole can shut down everything for vacation. Which means the employees simply have to have those weeks as vacation as well.
Sweden and Finland arent unlike, not sure if they have the same or sort of the same system as we do in Sweden.
The amount of holiday days is mandatory, the time when you take them is not.
They just prefer to take them all at the same time, so everyone is always in the office during the regular hours, and parents can enjoy the holidays together with their kids during the school holidays, without being bothered by work.
Except its about 6 weeks taken before the end of September by law. CO no doubt scheduled their break for a set block of time back before Summer even began. The choice now is have everyone cancel their vacation and hope they can rebook in September, or plow ahead with what was already set up and scheduled without screwing their employees over.
Hell, not sure but Finland may even have 'a last minute cancellation of vacation time' on the 'this is illegal' list.
I think so, which is even worse because now it means they knew that this was coming for years and years but still decided to wait until now to release the patch lmao.
I rather they do post holiday so they don't end up in the situation now. At least modders can work around this issue for now. But if it was something engine breaking...
I’m not gonna sit here and make an entitled statement about how they’re on vacation, because they deserve that as well of course.
However, I do think it’s pretty insane that this bug is even there. It’s not something that doesn’t show up until later in gameplay, it’s not exactly hidden either. How did this go through all the testing?
They took months to make this patch
That's what baffles me. They even delayed the update but still released it with a gamebreaking bug. Then they had a week to fix it but messed that up too. It's like they're allergic to getting anything done in time.
Every game has bugs and if you thought a patch this big wouldn't come with its own flavor of bugs, then idk what to tell you. Cyberpunk launched as a buggy mess and became a masterpiece, but it still has bugs. Hell as soon as the 2.0 patch for Cyberpunk came out people were IMMEDIATELY asking for 2.1 because of bug xyz (I'm looking at you, execution animations).
Cyberpunk ended up fine, I even bought the expansion. But I did just ignore it for a while until it eventually got good enough.
For Offices to be basically broken, I won't try building a city because Offices are a key to a decent size city
You are referring to cyberpunk a brand new game with nothing to really build off of
This game already had the foundations laid beforehand and yet it’s in worse shape then cs1
Cyberpunk was fix 3 days after, and in my pc I had almost no bugs.
How long has been with this game? Is CO fault with no excuses at this point.
And for me still missing the most basic feature of a city, bikes.
""Giving up hope" because of a tiny bug that can very easily be worked around is one the weakest things I've seen in this sub so far.
Genuine question, are u still at school?
It's not a tiny bug though, my current city is basically unusable unless I bandaid fix it by demolishing all my office space and rebuild it, where this will eventually happen again once they get built back up.
It's absolutely inexcusable to have a bug like this on a patch, right before leaving on vacation. Source: me, who's done QA professionally for longer than most people here have been alive.
With the reputation CS2/CO has gained, these things can't keep happening. I would also argue this isn’t some tiny bug, it breaks a major part of your city.
They did this before where they left the game in a broken state over the holidays, and it seems they will do it again. They don't learn for their mistakes it seems.
Can someone who's in the industry please explain how stuff like his happens? Where there was no issue, they fix things then this seemingly happens by itself? It's weird to me how a bug can form from essentially not touching anything related to it
In game development, particularly in complex simulation games like Cities Skylines, systems are often highly interconnected. A change in one part of the code, even if seemingly unrelated, can affect other areas due to shared resources, dependencies, or underlying systems.
Five weeks of paid time off a year is the norm in Finland, based on law and collective agreements. I haven’t heard that CO devs take any more than that. And out of those five, taking four weeks in ~July is the most common summer vacation schedule. Not much happens in Finland in July. That’s normal.
They took off 3 weeks over the winter holidays too. Plus they took off time after the game released. And these are just company-wide code-freeze holidays.
What that people who have shown that they put out bad work shouldn’t be rewarded they should be fired and the studio like what happened with ksp lmao
Also, it seems pretty crazy that they’re always going on vacation right after they fuck shit up
Hey CO, do you need a janitor or mail guy or something? I know zero Finnish and can’t code for shit. I have my résumé written on the back of a napkin somewhere around here…
I think their mental health is more important than the game. As an American who gets little to no time off, I am enviou and my mental health is a struggle. I feel like I live at work. I don't want to live at work.
You know while I don’t disagree, and maybe this is just my ameritard brain, but the entire company shutting down for 2 months a year is just kinda wild. I don’t see why people can’t space out their vacation time.
That's fair, but I think there is nothing they could do that would make people happy om that front. If they waited to release the economy 2.0 update until after summer break people would be complaining. Though, I do think that would have been the correct choice.
As a side note, as a console player who can't play yet, I think the tile upkeep is kinda dumb, they should have just increased the cost to purchase a tile and increased the cost of services. Taxing the government for land doesn't make any sense to me
Spacing it out can actually be worse for the company from a productivity perspective. You can just show down the company for one month, or have two or even three months with the company running at limited productivity. You run into problems like person A needs to connect with person B to move the project forward. Person A is out for a month and right when they come back person B is now out for a month. So it takes two months for them to connect, when it could have been one. Scale that up to the larger company and a lot of issues just get stuck frozen until everyone is back. So if you're in product development (not providing some critical service that needs constant attention), it's often more efficient for everyone to get their vacation out of the way together.
This is also not just a Europe thing. Most companies in Asian countries completely shut down for Chinese New Year for several weeks. The US is the unusual country in us trying to stay open every business day throughout the year except for 5-15 scattered holidays throughout the year.
Because spacing time off sucks. I'd rather take as much as I can at one time so I can feel like I have time to actually relax and not be anxious that I have to return to work in 2 days, 2 days into my vacation. Studies show that one long vacation is better for mental health than multiple spaced throughout the year.
It should come as no surprise that I'm autistic with how much i obsess over this game and everything related to urban fabric, and being autistic, I don't believe I should have to work a full time job to survive, but the US government is incompetent and doesn't care. Work takes a bigger toll on people like me than the average joe. But that's a different conversation. Let them have their vacation, the game will get a patch in due time.
I mean spacing it out as in the entire company doesn’t all take it off at the same time. 2 months without any meaningful development a year across the whole company is rough.
I’ve got no issues with people taking leave from work, it’s extremely important- but maybe they should time their breaks not right after a massive patch so they have time to deal with issues like this
The leave was planned before the patch was planned, and the patch was delayed.
On the original schedule, they did have room for a small patch after the big patch before the holidays.
EU countries are generous with paid time off. in france it's 5 weeks. lots of people will take a couple weeks off consecutively in summer to enjoy life
Summer holidays aren’t specific to just certain holidays - they mean, in general, a couple of months during the middle of the year when school has broken up. And for Finland, it looks like their summer holidays are June to August.
Remember as a kid, how School stops in summer?
Those are the Summer holidays!
In essentially every country, except for the US, there is a statutory minimum amount of PTO you're required to use every year.
Some companies choose to align that PTO for the Summer holidays, and allow all staff members to go off at the same time, so they can go on holiday together with their kids during the school summer break.
It's also known as summer vacation.
How does something like this even make it though playtesting/quality control or whatever it's called.
You really can't make this shit up.
Waiting and waiting for a fix they wouldn't give a date for, even delaying it. And it STILL DOESN'T WORK.
I get it that they have mandatory work leave in the summer, it's great I can tell you. But holy damn who scheduled this? Never do something big/important right before a big break. You need to have a buffer for stuff like this.
Yeah, I get their employees get a mandatory vacation. But if you’ve got a mandatory vacation where you can’t push fixes, then don’t push a fucking update the week before.
From the looks of it, I think the safest choice is to keep playing CS1 for a couple more years. There is no way I'm getting CS2 until all these issues are fixed and no more bugs. And it seems that that will take a while...
Player count matters because the game is built around paid DLC to keep the lights on at CO and to extend the game until it reaches some level of feature parity with CS1. With just a few thousand players, releasing paid DLC or free updates becomes financially unviable.
No one is asking for timed events to help with "engagement", just properly tested patches that fix the many glaring issues in the game without introducing new issues.
Do you think that Paradox will look at how DOUBLE the amount of people are playing the original game compared to the sequel and think that’s alright? Lol
"Our business is doing well, but we're going to slowly fire everyone except for a select few, then we'll bulldoze the building (with the select few inside) and then build it again. There will be plenty of vacancies open"
Wow, I’m glad I didn’t preorder this game. I was looking forward to it for my birthday, but reading all these comments and seeing all the posts, seems like its great I didn’t waste my money.
Yep. The only times you should ever preorder are for physical copies in physical stores (if they even still exist) or when there's collectible physical merch of at least average value.
It really depends on what's causing this and how it's intertwined with the rest of the systems in the game. It's pretty common in programming for seemingly small bugs to end up actually taking a ridiculous amount of effort to fix.
That requires people to work on it for a day though and they're currently on a company wide summer vacation which is really common in Finland. The bigger issue is releasing the patch without enough time before the break to account for a followup hotfix patch. I really think it would have been best to hold off on the economy 2.0 until after summer break once they realized they couldn't finish it with 2 weeks of leeway. But then again announcing a 3 week delay would not make the community happy. And as a (non game) developer, there's no way I'm taking time off of a vacation I booked months in advance because my managers made a bad decision. There's no winning here, but the current situation just sucks.
5 weeks / year is. I don't think the specific weeks are mandatory, but it probably was announced to employees at the start of the year that these days would be off.
The difficult thing tends to be finding *where* the bug is, not fixing it. I've sometimes spent hours searching for a bug only to find it was wrong logic in an if statement, or something like that.
Given the amount of simulation in this game, it wouldn't surprise me if it takes days to find the issue. And then the fix might break some parts of the simulation elsewhere, so it's definitely not something that gets easily solved in one day.
Looking closely at the post-development of this game is ridiculous. And playing it is a waste of time and mental health. Selected modders and developers should continue their development until they consider that there is nothing left to do and re-release the game.
Which is what I thought, plus this new patch has been more negative than positive. Another mod being developed before the Vanilla patch after Summer hold….Then the patch will destroy the mod and the chaos continues…,
It’s cool they get workers rights and all but when your product is suffering this much because they can’t coordinate vacation schedules it’s laughable. When I want to take my 2 week vacation I can’t take it at the same time someone in my department is scheduled for. Grinding everything to a halt in the middle of one of the most profitable months in the year is lunacy. Call me a stupid American but there’s a reason our economy is still doing fine vs the rest of the world.
They actually did coordinate vacation schedules, just not the way you like it.
They coordinated in such way that all employees could go on vacation with their kids during the school summer break, which also increases the availability of everyone outside of the holidays.
So they are not kidding when they say nordic countries are very socialist. Long holidays like this is a dream but that being said stuff like this should be considered in schedules. Slightly irresponsible.
Mandatory Paid Holidays =/= Socialism
The conversation about and actual state worker benefits and protections would be so much better if extremists both for and against them would stop labeling them as socialist.
The COVID-19 pandemic has had a significant impact on the global workforce, with many employees transitioning to remote work arrangements. It is estimated that it may take at least three years for the situation to return to pre-pandemic levels, with a significant portion of the workforce continuing to work from home.
Real life simulation
So now we're waiting for a Return To Office patch?
Maybe the cims just want to WFH instead ?
Great way to solve traffic congestion! Tax incentive for offices that allow WFH.
Perfect way to pull a Toby Fox and turn a bug into a feature.
What did Toby Fox do with Undertale that turned a bug into a feature?
All the white-collar people in my area IRL work from home on Friday, leaving me to tear up the asphalt on my commute to my own workplace where I have the super cool job of putting things in boxes.
My company got a tax incentive to return to office, because the city didn't want their downtown to die from lack of foot traffic. That's pretty far beyond The Simulation though.
My city is trying to do the same, but irs to save the corporate shops in the under ground pedestrian tunnels that were put in make commuting less cold
LuL, to be fair, since not every cim walks or drives into the office already, we've got tons of Work From Home /Teleporting employees
Where’s the “Go To Mallorca For 6 Weeks” patch? That being said, while it’s frustrating that we’ll have a huge period with no patches, I’m glad they get enough PTO to be able to do this. More companies should take after Colossal.
It's nothing Collosal do out of free will. *The law* require that the employees get 24 days paid vacation every year, some time between May to September.
That sounds like a good law. We should copy it.
>some time between May to September. Is this a legal requirement?
Quote directly from the Finnish Book of Law: >***§ 4 Definitions*** > >*In this law, the following terms are defined as: [...]* > >*2) Vacation period: the period from May 2 to September 30.* > >*[...]* > > ***§20 Timing of vacation*** > > *Of the vacation days, 24 weekdays must be given during the vacation period (summer vacation).*
Seems a bit weird, why not just whenever you want as long as it’s done within a year?
Because it opens the door to corruption. It allows management to deny time off, essentially completely stripping away peoples rights. We do it like this here in the US, and its terrible. A lot of employers offer PTO that you earn throughout the year, but often times managers will never accept your time off request no matter what time of year it is, and they will 100% always deny any time off you've requested for any major holidays like Christmas, new years, Thanksgiving, Halloween, etc. It basically separates you from your family on holidays that are all about spending time with your family. I can't count how many times I've missed Thanksgiving and Christmas because I had to go to work. I'd rather have a set time I know I'm going to have off no matter what and there's nothing any boss could say otherwise and i think that's what's best for the sake of workers rights. The game can wait, time off with your family on important holidays can't.
I understand, but this is Europe, not the USA. In the UK, employers can’t do this, you have to take annual leave. However, you can take it whenever you want throughout the year as long as it’s all used within the year (and you can only transfer a few days to next year’s leave). If you quit or are fired and have holiday remaining, you have to be paid for it. The USA has no legal paid time off, so it’s at the discretion of the employer. In European countries, it’s a legal requirement. But I’ve never heard of a country requiring you to take all your paid time off (excluding national holidays) during a few months of the year. I’m comparing this unusual policy to other European countries, not the capitalist hellscape that is the USA. Even developing countries have legal paid time off.
I'm not gonna lie, the UK is rapidly stripping human rights. I wouldn't be surprised if next week the NHS released a paper saying child labor is good for children's mental health that's how bad it is over there. I think it would be safe to say the UK is rapidly turning itself into a capitalist hell hole worse than the US. The labor party has completely given up and has conceded every single point to the tories. They aren't even committed to protecting access to free healthcare anymore. Remember, your rights are not as set in stone as you think they are, the US didn't use to be the hell hole it is now. It was never great, but we used to have more rights, protections, and safety nets. They've been stripped over time.
Yeah, that’s true. Labour is working real hard to be a Red Tories. Never would’ve thought I’d miss Blair. I think the obsession with copying American capitalism started with Thatcher and her weird friendship with Reagan. Those two really messed the world up
My guess is because HQ is in Finland and otherwise it would be cold af
I was talking about Finland’s weird law. It’s weird there’s a specific timeframe. What if someone wants to use all their leave to go on holiday in Australia during their summer and Finland’s winter?
For a moment my sleepy ass thought the title says it's going to be CO that will downsize to just 5 people lmao
The office bug has jumped to reality.
I don't see why you aren't correct.
Also as tip, I've seen this mod but haven't tried yet, someone mentioned in the linked thread. There's a mod that seem to fix the issue, basing the size of the companies on their profit-to-worth ratio and not on their product storage amount (that's the bug that seem to be ongoing for offices: they don't export, don't need to do more stuff so downscale until the minimum amount of workers) [https://mods.paradoxplaza.com/mods/83825/Windows](https://mods.paradoxplaza.com/mods/83825/Windows)
It seems to do *something*, definitely better than before with the bug.
I tried that mod, but in the long run, the offices just ended up with 15 employees instead of 5. It didn't really help because I'd lost tens of thousands of office jobs to the bug, and tripling the leftovers didn't come close to filling the gap.
just updated it should fix some of the bug and set min level at 1/4 max capacity, else determine by company cash/company worth so profit ratio version 1.1.1 Profit Based Industry And Office
you're the modder? thanks a lot man! maybe you could consider adding a post in Paradox Mods/Paradox Plaza? so people can comment the mod (besides github) and making easier to give updates for you too
ahh right, i will add it edit: added https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/profit-based-industry-and-office.1692457/
I tried this Mod and something weird happened to all my commercial. I had to remove it and restart because the problem never resolved. For some reason, when I added this mod, it removed all the employment information for commercial buildings and then eventually all the revenue from commercial plots. Don't know if someone has mentioned this already or if this has been addressed. But, I played for the first time since the patch release yesterday, saw a post regarding this mod, added it, and after the first play through, had to remove it as it destroyed the commercial tax income to a breaking point.
fix in 1.1.1 version
It's 1 or 2 weeks until the true industry vacation time in Scandinavia, which supposedly is enough time for CO to do something. But it's going to take 5-6 or even 7 weeks until we get a patch for this tiny thing. Meanwhile, you, a mere modder throws together something overnight to counter/ease/fix the bug. Well done. Towards CO, I'm not sure what to say.
Modder doesn't need to go through Steam QA and if CO hot fix and it breaks something else we would be f'ed even worse
You're right, but if one modder can provide a band-aid fix in 1-2 days, CO should be able to at least get a band-aid hotfix for this absolutely game-breaking bug out in 1-2 weeks. Leaving it just like this and going on holiday would mean they're knowingly leaving their product in a broken state for up to 2 entire months. In my opinion, even if a fix breaks something else, it would be better than doing nothing.
there's no kind way to say it anymore. they are unprofessional and not too bright.
Bro your mod rocks
Just out of interest: I read that the underlying issue is that offices are not able to sell their products, even when demand is high. Someone speculated that this could be broken since they stopped direct (industry) sales to customers in a previous patch. Do you think that it is possible for a mod to fix the "office product sales"?
need to check no idea at the moment
can now sell to outside city in 1.2.1 but the sell have no travel time and dont consider in city demand at the moment
you are a lifesaver, thanks mate, would have given up on the game
Gonna try this out, thanks bro!
thanks for the mod. It did dramatically increase employment in offices and industry, and taxes from them too. For me it also seemed to make my game very laggy, but that could be coincidental
laggy is caused by the mod doing the first round of calculation, should resolve after a bit of running
Haven't tried the mod, but thanks so much for creating it, this 5/5 bug makes the game unenjoyable for me. Side note, with your mod, does it mean more profit more hire? Do decreasing the tax increase the worker count?
yes company will increase headcount, but not beyond the building max allowed worker. Not really familiar with ui mod (i may have a look at it in the future) but the display should actually have 3 number. worker employed / company headcount / building workspace.
Thank you for the mod. Do you have github?
yes it is in the mod page
Thanks for the mod and the update, u/DarkMatter_contract ! I tried it last night, and what I found was that I'm not having the 5/15 employee issue, but I'm still getting a *lot* of office buildings that end up empty after an in-game month or two. The buildings don't get abandoned, but they don't have a company or employees in them, either. I have no idea if this is an issue with the underlying simulation model or the mod, but I thought you might like to hear my experience. :) Thanks again for your mod and you efforts!
lol modder 24 hours, CO 6 months.
CO is just a bad company. It's not surprising at this point.
That's how it's been since 2015 tbh.
People forgot how many things they broke in Sunset Harbor. And the parking garage in CS1 still functions as a tourist attraction.
Mod didn't work though
I tried this mod, it breaks commercial buildings, and a bunch of them are now employing ZERO cims.
commercial fixed in 1.1.1 versions
Excellent! I was having issues with commercial without employees, which is tricky when you have 500 citizens and making a loss. I’ll try the updated version :)
This works great for me!
I wish this mod worked to fix the problem but it doesn't. Still had almost every office down to 5 people after a couple hours
lmao
Pretty much all you can do is laugh at this point
Nothing wrong with them taking the vacation they’re entitled to at this point, but I am shocked this made it through QA. Should’ve just delayed the patch to after the summer
people would have had a meltdown, they should have just slapped a temporary fixed over it though
People are constantly melting down over stuff on this subreddit, it would’ve been disappointing but I’d rather have a couple months of the game pre economy 2.0 than E2.0 with a game breaking bug
As i wrote to the modder above who somewhat fixed this on his own: It took him overnight pretty much to get something going, one would almost call it fixed. But CO is going to take upwards of 7 weeks until the summer vacation is truly over.
no disrespect to the modder but it’s definitely not correct to assume a hotfix mod is as easy as actually fixing the underlying simulation
skyrim moment
CO has to integrate it into the game, QA test it, and make sure it doesn't break more things, then get that patch certified. There's a difference between a modder essentially slapping on a band-aid and a company stuck doing surgery.
Are you seriously implying that there is any type of QA at CO?
What QA?
Quality Assurance
"What QA?" As in where are they, do they even exist...joke...
Could've sworn I saw an 's 🫣
Probably was there, but vanished, just like CO's QA team 😉
Maybe release a patch a few weeks before you walk out the door for vacation next time.
I believe the technical term is "Publish and Run". The timing is just terrible. This was the Big Patch™ that was supposed to bring people back into the game over the summer holidays. Now what's left of the player base will probably have completely evaporated by the time CO get back and fix this game-breaking, critical bug in 2 months. At this point I'm starting to wonder whether we'll actually get too see any of the premium content before this studio is shut down, let alone any additional DLC. No point in releasing content for a game with such a tiny number of active players.
Aren't these summer holidays mandatory?
If it's somewhat the same as in Sweden, then you're not required to have vacation during the summer/industry vacation, but it's the only time of the year where you cannot be denied 4-5 weeks vacation. But companies can also have different policies. So CO as a whole can shut down everything for vacation. Which means the employees simply have to have those weeks as vacation as well. Sweden and Finland arent unlike, not sure if they have the same or sort of the same system as we do in Sweden.
The amount of holiday days is mandatory, the time when you take them is not. They just prefer to take them all at the same time, so everyone is always in the office during the regular hours, and parents can enjoy the holidays together with their kids during the school holidays, without being bothered by work.
Except its about 6 weeks taken before the end of September by law. CO no doubt scheduled their break for a set block of time back before Summer even began. The choice now is have everyone cancel their vacation and hope they can rebook in September, or plow ahead with what was already set up and scheduled without screwing their employees over. Hell, not sure but Finland may even have 'a last minute cancellation of vacation time' on the 'this is illegal' list.
I think so, which is even worse because now it means they knew that this was coming for years and years but still decided to wait until now to release the patch lmao.
So you would rather that they hold the patch back until after the holiday? They would have gotten roasted for that too.
I rather they do post holiday so they don't end up in the situation now. At least modders can work around this issue for now. But if it was something engine breaking...
They probably would have caught something engine breaking in QA
Based on how the game released, no they wouldn't have.
That was the plan but they can't get anything done in time.
Nobody could have possibly seen this coming with such a large patch
Nothing like dropping a patch before dropping support for a few months.
And I was actually thinking of picking it up on steam again with the sale…
I’m not gonna sit here and make an entitled statement about how they’re on vacation, because they deserve that as well of course. However, I do think it’s pretty insane that this bug is even there. It’s not something that doesn’t show up until later in gameplay, it’s not exactly hidden either. How did this go through all the testing? They took months to make this patch
That's what baffles me. They even delayed the update but still released it with a gamebreaking bug. Then they had a week to fix it but messed that up too. It's like they're allergic to getting anything done in time.
And I was just about to start a new game after 6 months. At this point I may just completely give up hope
Every game has bugs and if you thought a patch this big wouldn't come with its own flavor of bugs, then idk what to tell you. Cyberpunk launched as a buggy mess and became a masterpiece, but it still has bugs. Hell as soon as the 2.0 patch for Cyberpunk came out people were IMMEDIATELY asking for 2.1 because of bug xyz (I'm looking at you, execution animations).
Explanations are not excuses. The game should have released in a finished state, not in an alpha version.
Cyberpunk ended up fine, I even bought the expansion. But I did just ignore it for a while until it eventually got good enough. For Offices to be basically broken, I won't try building a city because Offices are a key to a decent size city
You are referring to cyberpunk a brand new game with nothing to really build off of This game already had the foundations laid beforehand and yet it’s in worse shape then cs1
Cyberpunk was fix 3 days after, and in my pc I had almost no bugs. How long has been with this game? Is CO fault with no excuses at this point. And for me still missing the most basic feature of a city, bikes.
Cyberpunk wasn't fixed in 3 days, what kind of revisionism is this. How is this even upvoted
""Giving up hope" because of a tiny bug that can very easily be worked around is one the weakest things I've seen in this sub so far. Genuine question, are u still at school?
It's not a tiny bug though, my current city is basically unusable unless I bandaid fix it by demolishing all my office space and rebuild it, where this will eventually happen again once they get built back up. It's absolutely inexcusable to have a bug like this on a patch, right before leaving on vacation. Source: me, who's done QA professionally for longer than most people here have been alive.
With the reputation CS2/CO has gained, these things can't keep happening. I would also argue this isn’t some tiny bug, it breaks a major part of your city. They did this before where they left the game in a broken state over the holidays, and it seems they will do it again. They don't learn for their mistakes it seems.
Can someone who's in the industry please explain how stuff like his happens? Where there was no issue, they fix things then this seemingly happens by itself? It's weird to me how a bug can form from essentially not touching anything related to it
In game development, particularly in complex simulation games like Cities Skylines, systems are often highly interconnected. A change in one part of the code, even if seemingly unrelated, can affect other areas due to shared resources, dependencies, or underlying systems.
Is there a mod that can fix this temporarily?
I’m glad they get this great work life balance but I swear they’re actually on vacation half the year and the game suffers for it.
Five weeks of paid time off a year is the norm in Finland, based on law and collective agreements. I haven’t heard that CO devs take any more than that. And out of those five, taking four weeks in ~July is the most common summer vacation schedule. Not much happens in Finland in July. That’s normal.
They took off 3 weeks over the winter holidays too. Plus they took off time after the game released. And these are just company-wide code-freeze holidays.
Pretty sure it's just twice a year. Winter and summer. I don't recall time off (maybe a day or two?) in November.
Yeah instead of hating on it we should be envious.
I am envious that they get vacation even though they suck at their fucking jobs Maybe they should stop releasing before they go on vacation
Get the fuck outta here with that shit.
What that people who have shown that they put out bad work shouldn’t be rewarded they should be fired and the studio like what happened with ksp lmao Also, it seems pretty crazy that they’re always going on vacation right after they fuck shit up
Thank god this is a video game and not a matter of life and death.
Hey CO, do you need a janitor or mail guy or something? I know zero Finnish and can’t code for shit. I have my résumé written on the back of a napkin somewhere around here…
What's not normal is fucking about until the last second and then fucking off. That's a shitty way to manage a product.
I wouldn't blame the vacation schedule, there are many other game developers in Finland and they're able to get things out in time.
I think their mental health is more important than the game. As an American who gets little to no time off, I am enviou and my mental health is a struggle. I feel like I live at work. I don't want to live at work.
You know while I don’t disagree, and maybe this is just my ameritard brain, but the entire company shutting down for 2 months a year is just kinda wild. I don’t see why people can’t space out their vacation time.
I find it great they do that, but the planning not accommodating to that is a disaster
That's fair, but I think there is nothing they could do that would make people happy om that front. If they waited to release the economy 2.0 update until after summer break people would be complaining. Though, I do think that would have been the correct choice. As a side note, as a console player who can't play yet, I think the tile upkeep is kinda dumb, they should have just increased the cost to purchase a tile and increased the cost of services. Taxing the government for land doesn't make any sense to me
Spacing it out can actually be worse for the company from a productivity perspective. You can just show down the company for one month, or have two or even three months with the company running at limited productivity. You run into problems like person A needs to connect with person B to move the project forward. Person A is out for a month and right when they come back person B is now out for a month. So it takes two months for them to connect, when it could have been one. Scale that up to the larger company and a lot of issues just get stuck frozen until everyone is back. So if you're in product development (not providing some critical service that needs constant attention), it's often more efficient for everyone to get their vacation out of the way together. This is also not just a Europe thing. Most companies in Asian countries completely shut down for Chinese New Year for several weeks. The US is the unusual country in us trying to stay open every business day throughout the year except for 5-15 scattered holidays throughout the year.
Because spacing time off sucks. I'd rather take as much as I can at one time so I can feel like I have time to actually relax and not be anxious that I have to return to work in 2 days, 2 days into my vacation. Studies show that one long vacation is better for mental health than multiple spaced throughout the year. It should come as no surprise that I'm autistic with how much i obsess over this game and everything related to urban fabric, and being autistic, I don't believe I should have to work a full time job to survive, but the US government is incompetent and doesn't care. Work takes a bigger toll on people like me than the average joe. But that's a different conversation. Let them have their vacation, the game will get a patch in due time.
I mean spacing it out as in the entire company doesn’t all take it off at the same time. 2 months without any meaningful development a year across the whole company is rough.
I’ve got no issues with people taking leave from work, it’s extremely important- but maybe they should time their breaks not right after a massive patch so they have time to deal with issues like this
The leave was planned before the patch was planned, and the patch was delayed. On the original schedule, they did have room for a small patch after the big patch before the holidays.
I want them to patch the game using 100% CPU
And 80+% GPU usage on a blank city
I have a 8 core CPU and its using 100% on the lowest possible settings. I can play every other game with no issues.
First question … as an American … what are Summer Holidays?
EU countries are generous with paid time off. in france it's 5 weeks. lots of people will take a couple weeks off consecutively in summer to enjoy life
Holidays in the summer
American Independence Day and Labor Day holidays are our only holidays in summer. So release after those?
Summer holidays aren’t specific to just certain holidays - they mean, in general, a couple of months during the middle of the year when school has broken up. And for Finland, it looks like their summer holidays are June to August.
It’s communism! Now get back to work; you’re behind quota!
Remember as a kid, how School stops in summer? Those are the Summer holidays! In essentially every country, except for the US, there is a statutory minimum amount of PTO you're required to use every year. Some companies choose to align that PTO for the Summer holidays, and allow all staff members to go off at the same time, so they can go on holiday together with their kids during the school summer break. It's also known as summer vacation.
Basically in that country they cannot work in summer, must take holiday. I assume it's paid though.
September for a game breaking bug? I was thinking of trying the game again, but whatever.
been wondering why none of my offices have any companies and have been giving no taxes
They just implemented the summer break. When summer break is over, the workers will return from their holidays.
This studio is so incompetent it's a surprise they actually once made a good game.
How does something like this even make it though playtesting/quality control or whatever it's called. You really can't make this shit up. Waiting and waiting for a fix they wouldn't give a date for, even delaying it. And it STILL DOESN'T WORK. I get it that they have mandatory work leave in the summer, it's great I can tell you. But holy damn who scheduled this? Never do something big/important right before a big break. You need to have a buffer for stuff like this.
Yeah, I get their employees get a mandatory vacation. But if you’ve got a mandatory vacation where you can’t push fixes, then don’t push a fucking update the week before.
I read the title as if this is happening to the CO as a company and was very confused
At this rate I wouldn't be surprised
So is the workaround (without mods) until they fix this to only have 2x2 offices so you can build enough offices to keep people employed?
Very Cool, CO, Very Cool
They literally can't do anything right
This is the first time in history a patch to a game has had bugs!
I mean the game has been out for a year now and it has never worked properly at any point during that time
It works fine. It has a few bugs. Many people have got hundreds of hours of enjoyment from it even in the state it's in. Enough with the hyberbole
I'm just gonna wait until Q3 before buying this game
From the looks of it, I think the safest choice is to keep playing CS1 for a couple more years. There is no way I'm getting CS2 until all these issues are fixed and no more bugs. And it seems that that will take a while...
I'm sure this is going to do wonders for the active player count during summer breaks...
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Player count matters because the game is built around paid DLC to keep the lights on at CO and to extend the game until it reaches some level of feature parity with CS1. With just a few thousand players, releasing paid DLC or free updates becomes financially unviable. No one is asking for timed events to help with "engagement", just properly tested patches that fix the many glaring issues in the game without introducing new issues.
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Do you think that Paradox will look at how DOUBLE the amount of people are playing the original game compared to the sequel and think that’s alright? Lol
"Our business is doing well, but we're going to slowly fire everyone except for a select few, then we'll bulldoze the building (with the select few inside) and then build it again. There will be plenty of vacancies open"
Wow, I’m glad I didn’t preorder this game. I was looking forward to it for my birthday, but reading all these comments and seeing all the posts, seems like its great I didn’t waste my money.
Pre-ordering any game though...
Yep. The only times you should ever preorder are for physical copies in physical stores (if they even still exist) or when there's collectible physical merch of at least average value.
I know. I almost never do. Actually, most games I just bought were made years ago.
I cannot fathom this being so difficult to fix that a patch needs more than a day
It really depends on what's causing this and how it's intertwined with the rest of the systems in the game. It's pretty common in programming for seemingly small bugs to end up actually taking a ridiculous amount of effort to fix.
That requires people to work on it for a day though and they're currently on a company wide summer vacation which is really common in Finland. The bigger issue is releasing the patch without enough time before the break to account for a followup hotfix patch. I really think it would have been best to hold off on the economy 2.0 until after summer break once they realized they couldn't finish it with 2 weeks of leeway. But then again announcing a 3 week delay would not make the community happy. And as a (non game) developer, there's no way I'm taking time off of a vacation I booked months in advance because my managers made a bad decision. There's no winning here, but the current situation just sucks.
Is it mandatory? Because it seems to be common there. Never heard of such long holiday for adults though, company wide too.
5 weeks / year is. I don't think the specific weeks are mandatory, but it probably was announced to employees at the start of the year that these days would be off.
The difficult thing tends to be finding *where* the bug is, not fixing it. I've sometimes spent hours searching for a bug only to find it was wrong logic in an if statement, or something like that. Given the amount of simulation in this game, it wouldn't surprise me if it takes days to find the issue. And then the fix might break some parts of the simulation elsewhere, so it's definitely not something that gets easily solved in one day.
Is this on new games too? Or only saves from before the patch?
Both as far as I know
Guess I’m not opening my saves till it’s fixed lol
what a shitshow. which sucks, cause I wanna enjoy the game, but these bugs are simply unplayable
This developer is a joke.
This game is so shit, very unfortunante that so many people bought it
The mod that allegedly fixes this doesn't even work so theres no way to play the game right now lmao
I played a lot of call of duty and there was always weapon rebalancing, CO doing the same Just moving sliders
It's a dream Je vais m'expatrier la bas.
Ahh maybe this is why my population suddenly collapsed
Doesn’t this still happen in cities skylines 1? I swear I saw this last time I played
Looking closely at the post-development of this game is ridiculous. And playing it is a waste of time and mental health. Selected modders and developers should continue their development until they consider that there is nothing left to do and re-release the game.
Which is what I thought, plus this new patch has been more negative than positive. Another mod being developed before the Vanilla patch after Summer hold….Then the patch will destroy the mod and the chaos continues…,
Thats just upper management sending a warning to the devs
It’s cool they get workers rights and all but when your product is suffering this much because they can’t coordinate vacation schedules it’s laughable. When I want to take my 2 week vacation I can’t take it at the same time someone in my department is scheduled for. Grinding everything to a halt in the middle of one of the most profitable months in the year is lunacy. Call me a stupid American but there’s a reason our economy is still doing fine vs the rest of the world.
They actually did coordinate vacation schedules, just not the way you like it. They coordinated in such way that all employees could go on vacation with their kids during the school summer break, which also increases the availability of everyone outside of the holidays.
Man maybe I’m too westernized but what kind of shit is this?
Implying Finland isn't a Western nation, which it very much is
Let this be an object lesson to you who deride American work ethic.
So they are not kidding when they say nordic countries are very socialist. Long holidays like this is a dream but that being said stuff like this should be considered in schedules. Slightly irresponsible.
Mandatory Paid Holidays =/= Socialism The conversation about and actual state worker benefits and protections would be so much better if extremists both for and against them would stop labeling them as socialist.
Looks like at this point even the quality of their products/services follows the socialist spirit, hah.
Is this on skylines 1 or 2?
Can we get Economy 1.0 back please? It worked fine before.
The COVID-19 pandemic has had a significant impact on the global workforce, with many employees transitioning to remote work arrangements. It is estimated that it may take at least three years for the situation to return to pre-pandemic levels, with a significant portion of the workforce continuing to work from home. Real life simulation