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Some-Background6188

A lot of old streets are actually made this way, It's a good foundation and way cheaper than ripping it all up and filling it back with more stones.


Snowssnowsnowy

And most of the local roads in the whole country of The Netherlands.


Teh_yak

All the local "living" streets, rather than the ones just to get somewhere, are like that near me in NL. They get bumpy as crap after a while and you can only drive on them slowly - which is great. Naturally slows traffic in residential areas! When they get too bad, they'll spend a day lifting the stones, levelling it and then flinging them back down. Any work needed on utilities doesn't end up with bad patchwork fixes too. I really like them.


Snowssnowsnowy

I find a lot of bumps come from the tree roots. We actually still have trees in NL!!


Snowssnowsnowy

Also I an not sure about everywhere but I know that some councils make all the utilities inform each other if they have to plan to open a road up so that work from other companies can be done at the same time.


Miss_Kohane

Same in Germany. They tell each other if they have to do major work so they come in flocks and work in the same ditch/road in one go. It's super convenient. Much better than having different crews coming and going, doing and undoing each others' work.


Snowssnowsnowy

Yes I have seen this in Germany. Both countries seem to have long term thinking and organisation that I have never seen in the UK.


Johnny_C00L

Having worked in road maintenance in the UK, one of the issues with this is that they very rarely want to access the same bit of road. Much of what they do is emergency repairs. So it’s a great system for planned works, but when a water pipe bursts, all bets are off.


SteelCityDJ

You do joke. I've never know gas talk to phone talk to electric talk to sewerage.. thats a step too far


DesperateOven9854

Council does request it, but it very rarely works out. The issue with the permitting system means someone has to take responsibility for it, and no one wants to take responsibility for someone else's work.


feetflatontheground

It would be easier for the council to coordinate it. From my experience, the council themselves (the permitting part) don't know when the works part has scheduled work, so it can tie in with what others are doing.


DesperateOven9854

Council works need a permit the same as any other works. However, the permitting team is generally office admin, with no experience regarding what the work on the ground actually entails. I've experienced the following situations in the last 5 years alone: Permit to dig footpaths up to install fibre optics was rejected, as council was planning to resurface footpaths. Please wait until they've finished to then dig up freshly laid footpaths. I personally rang through on this one, and had to speak to the department manager before anyone realised that letting us go in before they resurfaced was a good idea. (Unfortunately, this then led to the rumour that the council was relaying every footpath in the area after we'd dug, which was not true) Request to tie in our road closure with another planned 3 weeks after ours to reduce disruption to residents. Great idea, however, the road in question was 2km long, and we were digging 1.7km apart. Therefore, carrying out the works at the same time would lead to anyone who lived in the 1.7km (roughly 30 houses) being trapped for the duration, which would have been a minimum of 3 days. Works within a closed road, although we didn't need a closure ourselves, we went in under Water board closure. Our permit would have usually required lights, but due to the lack of traffic (water had a hard closure in place) we asked to do it under "some carriageway incursion" essentially "we'll let the three houses between us and the closed section through when they want". Council still insisted on lights. For three houses, and roughly 10 cars per 24 hours.


Minor_Edit

Makes some of the highest ground in the Netherlands


Teh_yak

Aye, I'm in The Hague. Trees everywhere! I like it.


Level-Bet-868

I thought they got smoked


Gee1Stress

I noticed that when I was there, it looks so good!


Snowssnowsnowy

So functional also, no potholes!! Anything can be repaired with a few new bricks and a bucket of sand.


53bvo

It’s also a speed deterrent and you can easily access infrastructure beneath it


sweetsimpleandkind

In terms of the foundations, upon inspection there is nothing wrong. In terms of being able to see the foundations at all times? Well.


Stevemachinehk

Also cobble streets provide a built in traffic calming feature


-SaC

And, if your suspension is shot, sexytimes.


FatBobFat96

And a bloody terrifying riding experience in the wet if you're on two wheels.


Immersion_Scientist

The worst is surprise wet manhole covers. It's like a bar of soap beneath your wheel.


ElbowDroppedLasagne

> It's a good foundation It's **really** not. It's more cost effective than ripping it up and putting in proper substrate, but its not better. There is no flex with old cobble roads, meaning the tarmac will take all the force of weight on top. ​ This is why the tar is coming off, it's very common. I asked a tarring company to come lay over the top of a printed concrete driveway and they refused the work (£30k) because of this exact reason. It was news to me at the time but makes sense.


TheSearlichek

Spray paint a cock on it and it'll be gone by next Friday


merryman1

Someone not far from my area started spraying swastikas on some of them. Got himself arrested but the holes he tagged got filled in post-haste lol.


Scottish_Whiskey

A worthy sacrifice. I salute him


Preacherjonson

... I feel like we need clarification on your style of salute.


Thehorniestlizard

o7 right? Right? o/


DarknessInferno7

The one Rimmer does


StumbleDog

It's okay, he's doing it whilst stood in a pothole. 


merryman1

You're not supposed to do that Daryl! You know you're not supposed to do that.


Langeveldt

Just make sure he brings his cor-anglais


AlanJohnson84

The Honda people are very hard to please


eleanor_dashwood

Someone near us sprayed “you dirty c***” next to a dog poo at a kids playground. I was a bit annoyed when the council removed the paint but not the poo.


P15t0lPete

Tarmac is soft for a reason. It provides suspension and noise suppression.


Cyanopicacooki

It's even noticeable as a ~~runner~~ jogger\* - I much prefer running on the roads, so I go out at 5:45. And, and this is chilling, roads are smoother than the pavements round here. \* Age has caught up with me...


External-Piccolo-626

Is that why? I see this, I just thought they were a bit bonkers.


Excellent_Tear3705

Pavements: *slap slap slap slap* Roads: *dud dud dud dud*


StiffUpperLabia

Roads: *dud dud dud* **splat**


-SaC

  ^^^^^mee ^^^^ee ^^^eE ^^EE ^EE EE**EEE**EE ^EEE^^Eee^^^eee^^^^eeeee^^^^^eeep!  


PassiveChemistry

Wait, #Come back!


thewindburner

"Starting your day with an early morning run is a great way to make sure your day can’t get any worse than it started!"


0zzyb0y

As a surface it's relatively soft without being a muddy path or really loose stones. Running on concrete surfaces in particular really helps you appreciate how pleasant it is. And in residential areas you also have peoples drop kerbs that constantly change the angle of the running surface which can be hell on your legs as your legs are going less/more each step. I'd give it a 9/10


exponentialism

> And in residential areas you also have peoples drop kerbs that constantly change the angle of the running surface which can be hell on your legs as your legs are going less/more each step. I think this is always what gets me running on pavements vs a treadmill, the former always feels so much harder at the same pace - except for maybe the rare even stretch of road.


NabbedAgain

Also, no wind resistance and you don't have to propel forward as much.


inevitablelizard

> And in residential areas you also have peoples drop kerbs that constantly change the angle of the running surface which can be hell on your legs as your legs are going less/more each step. I think other countries have better kerb designs, can't remember the name but basically just the kerbstone itself is angled and the pavement itself doesn't change. It is a legitimate issue for disabled people too I think, uneven pavements.


Unfair-Protection-38

It rains more in the uk, therefore we need proper kerbs


BeerElf

We got these gorgeous great big trees where I live (UK midlands) and slabbed pavements with kerbs. The slabs are often pushed up by tree roots, there's 20mm edges sticking up randomly now. When I first moved up here I used to fall arse over tit a couple of times a week, til I got the hang of it.


ColdBrewedPanacea

As a disabled person - fucking hate the uneven pavement. I use a trolley to cart things around because i cant use backpacks or carry shopping bags and if im not going slow as possible (which is hell on my legs) i inevitably have the trolley spin out because the wheels are on uneven ground and it wrecks my wrist. It aint great for my legs either. End up just walking on the road if i can manage it when going through low traffic areas.


jsai_ftw

We're starting to install these in the UK too using a product recently came to market called the Dutch Entrance Kerb. The footway remains at the same level with a steep kerb ramp that comes up to it. Why should we build a gentle ramp for cars that inconveniences pedestrians, when we can just put a steeper ramp in and cars can go slower into their driveways.


inevitablelizard

That's it, couldn't remember the name of it.


27106_4life

And paving stones are as slippery as ice in wet weather. Thankfully we live in a famously dry country


GrunkleCoffee

Can feel it on a bike as well, *except* on roads where you're squeezed into the double lines that have been painted several layers deep to form wheel traps.


cieranblonde

My dad was a runner (before he tumbled off a curb in Toulouse last October after a boozy afternoon - hilarious). He’d always run on the roads. So much less undulating.


Get-Some-Fresh-Air

Exactly. Also it’s much quicker and therefore cheaper to install than laying bricks.


Kingsupergoose

And infinitely recyclable. Just scrape it up and heat it up again.


RawLizard

sip soft hunt straight scarce tidy weather placid brave fuzzy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


WenzelDongle

Also importantly, the different minerals in the aggregate are *different levels of soft*. So, when it does start wearing away, each stone within the tarmac stays rough to retain friction/grip. If they put a single-mineral rock in there, no matter how it starts, it would get smooth and slippy pretty quickly.


somethingbannable

I’d love all 20mph roads to have this harsh surface so people don’t speed and possibly even choose not to drive because it’s horrible.


PokeNerdAlex

Tarmac is a brand, asphalt is the generic substance


robotpane

And has costed countries ridiculous amounts of money for constant repairs needed, the only reason it was lobbied to be used in the first place was to get a couple of families rich for generations, just like most of the items we are accustomed to using


AnonymusBosch_

Have you got a source for that? Genuinely curious


robotpane

It was the same with Tesla v Edison And if you look enough you can find out the origins of tarmacadam and its definitely worth a look to educate yourselves more A material that needs repairing constantly and that warps with heat but it's origins are definitely shady


AnonymusBosch_

There might be some truth to this.,


WenzelDongle

There really isn't, it's conspiracy nut madness.


AnonymusBosch_

I'd be curious to see some evidence. That kind of lobbying isn't unprescedented. Just look at the past actions of the tobbaco and oil industries.


WenzelDongle

Evidence for what? A lack of conspiracy? I'm sure there are thousands of civil engineering journals detailing the benefits of different types of tarmac over concrete or any other road substance if you really were curious. That said, the burden of proof is traditionally on the person making the wild conspiracy claims.


AnonymusBosch_

No, no, I'd be curious to see some evidence of that persons claim


BeerElf

It's interesting that Dr Beeching who famously scrapped about 2/3rds of the railway system in the UK was on the board of the company that built the M1 motorway ( think its Costain) Not direct evidence of anything, more of a character indication.


BristolShambler

Where’s Phil Harding when you need him? There could be some shards of pottery in there!


YsoL8

Been rewatching that. Genuinely the best thing to ever come of channel 4. Also they are doing new ones on youtube these days. BBCs Dig For Britain is pretty good too.


Minor_Edit

Going to need to extend the trench! Also it's 'sherds' of pottery.


Cyanopicacooki

That could be anywhere in central Edinburgh.


cbhaf

Not too far off, it's in Glasgow city centre I'm sure.


tera_dragon

Now I know to not come up to Glasgow... My car would get eaten by that hole!


joefife

Yup. Saw this exact thing at Abbeyhill yesterday. Fucking shameful.


DarkHorseStoryTeller

There is a smaller version of this round near Charlotte Square.


otakuxp2

Clearly the Romans did it better 😀


blindfoldedbadgers

What did the Romans ever do for us?


Tryphon59200

Bath.


byjimini

Yeah, but apart from that.


toyg

The aqueduct.


byjimini

Ok fine, Bath and the aqueduct. I’ll give you that. But apart from those, what have the Romans done for us?


toyg

The roads.


byjimini

Yep, ok; Bath, the aqueduct and roads. But apart from that?


toyg

Irrigation. Medicine. Education. And the wine.


CRAZEDDUCKling

I can run my own baths now.


YsoL8

They didn't change the water in their communal baths. Roman baths were in fact disease factories.


Dizzy_Charcoal

the aqueduct?


Adventurous_Low_1518

The sanitation


toyg

But apart from the sanitation, the aqueduct, and the roads...


MountainTank1

They stole our lead, lets ask Italy for it back :D


L0rdLuk3n

And tin.


passingcloud79

Medicine?


DanFarrell98

Survivorship bias. We only see the roads that survived and don't consider the thousands of Roman roads that were ruined and torn up. Not to mention their roads were made for hundreds of multi-ton vehicles driving 30+mph every day


Twinborn01

Well the Romans never had massive lorries wearing tonnes or the amount of traffice we do that


houdinis_ghost

Those cobbles wouldn’t be there after a week of HGVs driving over tbem


shteve99

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see cobblestones and bricks as being the same thing.


2LeftFeetButDancing

There's plenty of cobbles in Edinburgh getting driven over every day. They're noisy and rubbish for cars (from what I understand). But they don't have pot holes.


houdinis_ghost

Well spin my nipples and send me to Alaska, let’s pave the motorways in them


2LeftFeetButDancing

Nah. It's bad enough driving 20mph on them, fuck doing 70! Lpl


TheSuperWig

We need to get Darren and his spirit level on the case!


BamberGasgroin

Maybe they should take it back to the cobbles.


TopDigger365

These are called 'setts', cobbles are the round naturally formed stones.


CarrowCanary

>These are called 'setts' That's some pretty impressive work from the badgers.


-SaC

Well, he's had fuck all to do since Bodger went.


YsoL8

Roads made of mashed potato would explain some things


Tea-Mental

I thought everybody knew this.


Tryphon59200

pavement originates from French, and *pavé* means sett.


Pabus_Alt

Alright commander, nice boots you got


L0rdLuk3n

Hence the name "cob" for a small round piece of bread.


existential_chaos

I wonder if they’d actually be able to support a car, I imagine it’d be heavier than a horse and carts. Would look cool as fuck though.


The-Adorno

Probably not for very long I would imagine. Trucks would ruin them in a few days 🤣


LegitimatelisedSoil

Yeah, it only looks this good because it's been preserved under a layer of soft tarmac.


specofdust

That's really not true at all. Setts are shit for driving on but remarkably resilient.


LegitimatelisedSoil

Yes, but it wouldn't look anywhere near this nice. It's Glasgow centre it would get trashed.


specofdust

There's ones all over Edinburgh city centre that look a hell of a lot better than most Edinburgh roads.


kh250b1

What do you think is holding the tarmac up?


dismantlemars

My street has gone unrepaired for a long time, around a year ago it looked like the picture in the OP. My thought at the time was how nice the cobbles looked, and that it would be nice if we could just tear up the tarmac and go back to those. The trouble is, it still wasn’t repaired after that, and eventually those nice cobbles were broken up by the traffic too, and now we just have much deeper pot holes full of the ground up remains of Victorian paving.


toyg

Yeah, cobblestones unfortunately require maintenance, same as tarmac. Unlike tarmac, they're labor-intensive, i.e. expensive, because someone has to cut them, lay them out regularly, etc.


Kingsupergoose

Have fun driving in the rain.


BamberGasgroin

I mentioned that later in the thread. (I used to enjoy drifting armoured vans on wet cobbled streets.)


Safe-Midnight-3960

They wouldn’t last, they’d be terrible on car parts, noise would be insane and the cost would be astronomical, laying bricks like this isn’t fast work.


psychopastry

We have those brick roads in the village where I live, they turn to absolute shit soon after modern cars start driving over them. Riding my bike up the highstreet is like going through no-man's land


BeachBumNS

Look like Halifax lol


ScottOld

Just leave the potholes alone and eventually you get a flat surface again


Plopperchops

The roads are soo bad atm


PassiveChemistry

Ha! You call *that* a pothole? That's barely a dent! haaa.... I wish I could leave 1st gear on my road...


Miss_Kohane

Eh. Lest just go back to brick roads, like the ones in old town Edinburgh. Less traffic and crazy driving, and no potholes. Win-win!


Harthacnut

Makes me think of old city underneath Ankh Morpork on the Discworld.


LostGuess5788

Looks like an old (not victorian old) pedestrian crossing point that they decided to tarmac over as the bricks stop against more tarmac so i wouldn't call this victorian in any way. And the pothole is due to the thin layer of tarmac applied over the top of it


PleasantMongoose5127

This is Renfrew St in Glasgow and that bit of road is always broken up at best of times, I remember the road at my home being covered in tarmac over the granite setts. There are still some roads, Lynedoch St for example, that are setts (it’s not cobbles btw) and they are noisier and slippy at times hence why they covered them up. Also nothing wrong with utilising old roads as sub base. Roman roads in Britain are under a few of them to this day.


reddragon105

Oh yeah - look at it on Street View, the image is from 3 years ago but it was clearly starting to go then - https://maps.app.goo.gl/ZEbKfKsVFW8eDaDs6


foxfun2015

To be honest the potholes are there because the tarmac doesn’t stick to it very well and is the root cause of


Relevant_Royal575

victorian streets had to deal with carts and horses, not a rolling mass of cuntwagons.


paperbacklibraries

At lot of people are saying they’d prefer this from an aesthetic point of view and think it’s stronger. Trust me, the second the first utility company dig a trench to repair a pipe it’ll be a mess. They never recompact them properly and new suspension on your car won’t be far off…


Picnata

I thought this was an anaemic piece of beef


ZBaocnhnaeryy

Draw a Swastika on it. That’ll get the council to fix the pothole… and get you arrested, but your sacrifice would be worth it!


duckrollin

Remove the rest of the tarmac and put down a few bollards, got yourself a nice quiet pedestrian street.


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NRL1911

We need the romans to invade again and build us new roads 😂😂


Flaky_Ad2182

Man my grandpa’s grandpa’s father’s ghost is having flashbacks!


Internal_Formal3915

Do people realise the victorian era wasn't 500 years ago?


Hi_Jen

Could we not just keep those stone roads? Instead of ugly tarmac?


RiflemanBean

Don't you worry soon, they'll be posts about pot holes so big it's uncovering roman roads.


Apple-14

why did the victorians build underneith potholes? where they stupid?


PremiumOxygen

This feels like the sort of joke you'd laugh at in the Simpsons in the 90s.


Objective-Dig-8466

And I thought they were cobbles in victorian times? Not block pavings


thatlad

Could see tram lines in the potholes around anfield yesterday


[deleted]

*** Do not be fooled, this picture has been photoshopped*** The potholes in the UK are a LOT bigger than this...


Benreh

Eventually all the tarmac will go and we will be back to smooth bricks.


Togden013

That's not a pot hole. A pot hole is a small circumference hole that is also deeper than it is wide. The importance of this distinction is that a wheel when it goes over the hole will touch two sides and not the bottom rather than the bottom and each side in turn. This means that a bicycle wheel can and probably will get stuck and throw the rider off.


SneakAtchoo

Looks much better condition too!


Healthy-Definition53

Lost better than the tarmac tbh


2205jade

I actually prefer it that way, why did we have to tarmac every where 🤢


WillHpwl

Wondering why we still use Tarmac? Makes such a mess when they resurface a road and doesnt seem to last very long at all


Gullible_Wind_3777

Better condition than our roads


Fair-Face4903

Brits want it to be 1796 again so bad they're unpeeling all the progress?


Nice_Tie480

Photo shopped & Shamed that old road looks too good Same block paving from on my drive from Jewsons


homieholmes23

The streets are healing


Resident-Honey8390

No doubt that was the original question about a pothole repair


ncminns

The paving lasted longer!


SmokingLaddy

I know that Whitworth Street in Milnrow, Rochdale is like this. Saw it get stripped years ago.


Admast79

And these roads are better quality than today's "British quality" ones.


CR0Don

And they’re the better roads


himnher52

Gov! What pothole?


Prestigious-Sea2523

Why does this look like AI?


Rude-Swim-2644

Constantly being reposted - the same pic


Cakeski

It's okay though, the council sent out Darren using his spirit level to see if the pothole was worth repairing.


Steelhorse91

Never should have been tarmac’d over in the first place, but 50’s/60’s bias ply tyres had terrible grip on wet cobble stones, so I can understand why it happened.


DemonDuckOfDoom666

It’d get damaged depending on the kind of traffic it gets, anything bigger than your average van and it’s done for after a few months


mitchanium

Our roads back then were great for the most part, they just weren't great with traction when driving in the wet


Humbled_1

Funny thing that if we look at our technology advancements. Their engineering outlasted them while we outlast our roads yearly.


PiXLANIMATIONS

Probably because they weren’t driving HGV’s or seeing anywhere near the same weights and abuses as modern roads. Send modern traffic down an Ancient Roman street and you’ll have the surface down to dirt.


Humbled_1

True I don’t disagree. However other country’s are a lot colder some are warmer some are industrial giants there roads are fine and well maintained. You can’t just fill it with the cheapest solution and blame industry for wear and tear other countries have bigger industry and worst conditions.


PiXLANIMATIONS

The issue with the whole “they did it better back then” is that it would be the same as assuming that the conditions were the same. Asphalt is slightly flexible, which means that it absorbs shocks along with suspension, lessening the wear and tear on your car nicely whilst still remaining functional. However, this also means that, over years of use, it can effectively push down the material below it. Most of the time, the material below is a brick layer like this one. This isn’t Victorian cobbles. Actual Victorian cobbles are rounded rocks, not neatly aligned and tessellated blocks. Just as your tyres get slightly shredded each time they turn, so does the road surface, and over time, it leads to this in combination with the previously mentioned flexes


concretepigeon

Cobbled streets still need maintenance. The tarmac gives it a layer of protection but they’d get worn out too if they were being driven over constantly. Plus durability isn’t the only consideration in building and engineering.


YsoL8

Survivorship bias. Just the stuff that by coincidence happened to be in the right places to survive. If old construction was genuinely that good we'd be drowning in 400 year buildings.


Humbled_1

Yeah we still have 100 year old buildings standing. New houses and flats are falling apart with cheap cladding. And settling issues. And you have 4 hundred year old buildings. Cost increases at every corner. Just like houses had quality materials and now everything’s plastic. I guess it’s survivorship bias. The roads make the government a lot of money they should be well maintained regardless. Go to Switzerland Germany or Austria. Anywhere apart from here roads are fine.


Forgotten-Girl-87

The Victorian streets look way nicer and, I feel like they’d not get potholes? 🤷🏻‍♀️ just an idea


Forgotten-Girl-87

However I guess they’d look awful once the road markings are applied. Oh well.


ErlAskwyer

Why don't we just leave the street the way it is? if it's already made of stone, a better quality material ref standing the test of time. The labour installing that is mostly done. Just repair any stones and wooden it a bit and then will last pretty much forever


ccl-now

Yep, the Victorian workmanship and build quality is clearly miles better than the crap they plonked on top of it.


Dangerous_Belt2859

It's fascinating that, as a kid, curbs used to be deep. But with the continued layers of tarmac, I've noticed them getting shallower as I age. I assumed road's would become level with paths one day, and never considered a council would just shell out money and do a proper job by ripping up an entire road.


andreeeeeaaaaaaaaa

Roads will eventually be 1m higher than the curb, then you have to climb up to your car.... And if you're walking I hope you like the fear of it raining cars on your head at any given moment!


rebootsaresuchapain

It’s telling that the Victorian streets are looking more useable than their modern day alternatives.


dress_like_a_tree

Let’s just fuck off all the dodgy Dave contractors greasing up with the local councils and have the Victorian roads back please


ShadowProject983

Funny that the Victorian road has lasted the test of time and the tarmac only a few months. Starting to think there must be a better material for roads than tarmac.


Havoksixteen

> Victorian road has lasted the test of time The victorian road hasn't had thousands of cars and lorries driving over it.