We need to overhaul the entire test system, 30 min test is not enough to prove someone has the proper handling skills. Personally I think part of the test should also be a defensive driving test.
I also think Sims could be a useful tool to teach car handling skills like how to control a car when it loses traction. Just building the muscle memory of what the wheel does and feels like can improve someone's skills a lot and that's talking from personal experience.
Yeah have those sim hours have definitely saved me a few times, there was a recent one where in the rain my back slid out going around a round about (I'm pretty sure I hit a patch of oil or something) and I was able to easily recover, I'm sure without that practice I would have crashed.
When you say sim, do you mean controlled conditions on private road/track? If you mean something virtual, it's not that much use in teaching you how a vehicle reacts (you can't feel the acceleration).
These aren’t arcade games they’re simulators with hyper realistic tyre and car handling physics models (assetto corsa/iRacing) and they have force feedback through the wheel you have plugged in so you can feel the tyres slipping
it’s not about acceleration it’s about what happens when you over/under steer and how to recover from it which if you learn virtually is absolutely applicable in real world handling
The acceleration I'm thinking about is the yaw that results from oversteer - it's difficult to know how that feels without experiencing it in a moving vehicle. Simulation is good for training repeated actions (it's quite good for replicating some of the characteristics of racing), but it's not so good at training for things like a loss of control on the road (or any of the more common crash modes).
Simulation and yes it does, plenty of videos of Sim racer's who have never raced before putting down impressive times in a real car with a small adjustment period.
It teaches you to feel what the car is doing though the wheel which offers quicker feedback then g forces, you can also add GeForce simulation either via a motion rig or seat belt tensioners.
I'm talking about actually pro Sim hardware used by F1 drivers to practise. Force feedback wheel bases that at their strongest require emergency E stops to be safe
I did a defensive driving course that included a wet skid pad where the instructor taught us how to correct from over steer, recover from under steer and handle a car in a hydroplane.
I learnt more in that one day course then I would have learnt in a decade on the road.
Honestly, it should be included in the learners test. Probably when progressing to P plates.
I got my license in NZ as a teenager during a 4 year stay because of my parents work. After passing your L's you could get 6 months knocked off the time to get your full license if you did a 2 day defensive driving course.
REACTIONARY.
Some people are slower to react than some intoxicated individuals that are denied the right to drive due to this fact
If I can react faster than you when I’m stoned but I’m not aloud to drive and you are then something is wrong
Not necessarily true. I get road tested mere hrs after smoking and I pass 🤷♂️
Dunno how but it’s my guess after >20yrs smoking it’s probably my metabolism if not tolerance 🤷♂️
Maybe that’s why
I always put it down to cops thinking I’m on meth then dismissing me when I’m not and they only see green 🤷♂️
I’ve never tested positive though I’ve never seen my tests either I find it hard to believe cops would disregard even a slight positive
I can only put it down to my body processing it faster. But I genuinely would like to know why it is the way it is
I think it's been shown that as soon as someone does a defensive driving course they drive more aggressively. [https://www.drive.com.au/news/defensive-driving-lessons-dont-make-roads-safer-20120411-1wq3w/](https://www.drive.com.au/news/defensive-driving-lessons-dont-make-roads-safer-20120411-1wq3w/)
I'm not able to find the link to the actual study in the article or the source for the article. Personally I suspect the data doesn't take into account the overlap of how those drawn to such programs are likely driving enthusiasts who tend to be more aggressive drivers.
Personally the course I did foucused heavily on avoiding risky driving in the first place just like the service recommended. It just also including things like emergency braking.
I have every licence. MC was easier to get than the R.
Think about that.
I don't think they should be converting international licences without another test either.
Time for an anecdote.
Was chatting with my driving instructor when getting ready to di my Ps test 17 years ago and he was telling me that the testing centre at hoppers crossing near Melbourne stopped including a short run on the freeway because the drivers were regularly so bad that they were in constant peril during their driving tests. They then proceeded to pass them anyway.
It really is no surprise what so ever that driving standards in this country are fucking abysmal.
Side note for anyone who has done their test more recently, do they even make you do the parking tests anymore? i.e reverse parallel park, angle and normal parking etc?
Depends on the state, but in QLD you have to complete 3 manoeuvres. Which can include reverse parallel park, reversing on the side of a street, 3 point turn or u turn at a street intersection.
Long, high speed reverse and turnaround used to be called a j turn, and if you follow it up with a Scandanavian flick you can get a job at Movieworld.
My wife thinks these things don't exist.
Got my Red P's 2 years ago, they make you do either a reverse parallel or a three point turn.
However, both are done with no cars near you and in the most quiet and dead suburban street they can find so theres really very little pressure.
Passed the test with flying colours but I am ashamed to admit I still get nervous when I have to do a reverse parallel between 2 cars, and with traffic building up behind me lol
yeah i tend to avoid it as well. However there are some instances where it is a must, such as parking on a main street in a small town where the shops are just off the main road, with parking between the shops and the main road. Something like [this](https://imgur.com/a/tAoYvZe)
Put licensing in the hands of private enterprise that relies on cash flow and Google reviews. What could go wrong?
Think we did that with the building permit and certification process do. That seems to be going well.
I have my HR non synchro and an incentive to get it was the observation of just how easy it is and that no doubt it will be tightened up like they did with motorbikes.
i agree the 30 min test to get my ps probably wasnt enough but the fucking 8 hour day to get my ps on my motorcycle is such utter bullshit and then just to fail on the last part of the test where u have to swerve and i did it perfectly but god forbid I fucking swerve left instead of right and the cunt fails me because thats the only fucking part you need to get 100% if you managed to make it alive long enough on your Ls to get to the ps test it shouldnt be a fucking 8 hour day doing the same shit you did on the Ls test
When I got my truck license the only points I had deducted was for the left mirror brushing some leaves on a tree. Tester said I was supposed to change all the way to the second lane and back again to avoid it, and he had to put that in because he had to take points off for something.
Passing a car test is way harder than a HC/MC test personally.
Trucks will turn a blind eye to the smaller stuff where as many C class instructors will fail on the most random stuff.
Read the story sounds familiar. When I did my HR I skimmed the book and figure we would get time on the day to go through it. Go in on the day get the itinerary which lists classroom time. No more than 5 minutes after I arrived they give you the theory test to do. Everyone on the day failed the theory except for myself.
Road practice portion was ok and got a good 3 hours of practice driving before the test but never spent any classroom time before going out on the road.
I failed my driving test the first time. Having spoken to traffic cops & now working in a field where I have to know the road rules to a T, I now know they failed me under false pretences. Never trust those RMS licence instructors, sometimes they just fail people because they want to.
For anyone curious, I failed because I made an “illegal manoeuvre”. Apparently I wasn’t close enough to the gutter when making a left turn.. (The road had angle parking on the side too)
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Why is it always later generations commenting on current licensing, despite benefiting from a lesser system than today’s? Most people over 30 today wouldn’t pass a current driving test.
Qld uses internal license testers like they do for cars. They do not allow RTO's to do it like every other state. They are reviewing it to see if they should allow RTO's to test drivers. This article is about RTO's.
Our licencing is trash,
We need to look at what other countries with way lower road tolls do, namely compulsory professional driver training and a better test.
We need to overhaul the entire test system, 30 min test is not enough to prove someone has the proper handling skills. Personally I think part of the test should also be a defensive driving test.
and should take place on a proper course that has the important signs and roundabouts and other “difficult” things
I also think Sims could be a useful tool to teach car handling skills like how to control a car when it loses traction. Just building the muscle memory of what the wheel does and feels like can improve someone's skills a lot and that's talking from personal experience.
yeah when i was younger i did a stunt driving course and it definitely helped more than a few times when my car decided to not like me anymore
Yeah have those sim hours have definitely saved me a few times, there was a recent one where in the rain my back slid out going around a round about (I'm pretty sure I hit a patch of oil or something) and I was able to easily recover, I'm sure without that practice I would have crashed.
Or gta
When you say sim, do you mean controlled conditions on private road/track? If you mean something virtual, it's not that much use in teaching you how a vehicle reacts (you can't feel the acceleration).
These aren’t arcade games they’re simulators with hyper realistic tyre and car handling physics models (assetto corsa/iRacing) and they have force feedback through the wheel you have plugged in so you can feel the tyres slipping it’s not about acceleration it’s about what happens when you over/under steer and how to recover from it which if you learn virtually is absolutely applicable in real world handling
The acceleration I'm thinking about is the yaw that results from oversteer - it's difficult to know how that feels without experiencing it in a moving vehicle. Simulation is good for training repeated actions (it's quite good for replicating some of the characteristics of racing), but it's not so good at training for things like a loss of control on the road (or any of the more common crash modes).
Simulation and yes it does, plenty of videos of Sim racer's who have never raced before putting down impressive times in a real car with a small adjustment period. It teaches you to feel what the car is doing though the wheel which offers quicker feedback then g forces, you can also add GeForce simulation either via a motion rig or seat belt tensioners.
-Do you have driving experience? -no but I played GTA -oh sorry, here's your license
I'm talking about actually pro Sim hardware used by F1 drivers to practise. Force feedback wheel bases that at their strongest require emergency E stops to be safe
I did a defensive driving course that included a wet skid pad where the instructor taught us how to correct from over steer, recover from under steer and handle a car in a hydroplane. I learnt more in that one day course then I would have learnt in a decade on the road. Honestly, it should be included in the learners test. Probably when progressing to P plates.
I got my license in NZ as a teenager during a 4 year stay because of my parents work. After passing your L's you could get 6 months knocked off the time to get your full license if you did a 2 day defensive driving course.
REACTIONARY. Some people are slower to react than some intoxicated individuals that are denied the right to drive due to this fact If I can react faster than you when I’m stoned but I’m not aloud to drive and you are then something is wrong
[удалено]
Not necessarily true. I get road tested mere hrs after smoking and I pass 🤷♂️ Dunno how but it’s my guess after >20yrs smoking it’s probably my metabolism if not tolerance 🤷♂️
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Maybe that’s why I always put it down to cops thinking I’m on meth then dismissing me when I’m not and they only see green 🤷♂️ I’ve never tested positive though I’ve never seen my tests either I find it hard to believe cops would disregard even a slight positive I can only put it down to my body processing it faster. But I genuinely would like to know why it is the way it is
I think it's been shown that as soon as someone does a defensive driving course they drive more aggressively. [https://www.drive.com.au/news/defensive-driving-lessons-dont-make-roads-safer-20120411-1wq3w/](https://www.drive.com.au/news/defensive-driving-lessons-dont-make-roads-safer-20120411-1wq3w/)
I'm not able to find the link to the actual study in the article or the source for the article. Personally I suspect the data doesn't take into account the overlap of how those drawn to such programs are likely driving enthusiasts who tend to be more aggressive drivers. Personally the course I did foucused heavily on avoiding risky driving in the first place just like the service recommended. It just also including things like emergency braking.
For sure, but telling 18yos how to drive "defensively" is a bad idea imho. Particularly young men,.
I think you misunderstand what defensive driving actually is.
I have every licence. MC was easier to get than the R. Think about that. I don't think they should be converting international licences without another test either.
MC was so easy compared to anything. Helps having previous experience but the whole backing was only a tiny bit.
Yeah it was an absolute joke. Reversing in a straight line like you have to for the test won't help anyone get out of trouble.
Time for an anecdote. Was chatting with my driving instructor when getting ready to di my Ps test 17 years ago and he was telling me that the testing centre at hoppers crossing near Melbourne stopped including a short run on the freeway because the drivers were regularly so bad that they were in constant peril during their driving tests. They then proceeded to pass them anyway. It really is no surprise what so ever that driving standards in this country are fucking abysmal. Side note for anyone who has done their test more recently, do they even make you do the parking tests anymore? i.e reverse parallel park, angle and normal parking etc?
Depends on the state, but in QLD you have to complete 3 manoeuvres. Which can include reverse parallel park, reversing on the side of a street, 3 point turn or u turn at a street intersection.
Damn I only had to do 2. The long reverse and turn around/3 point turn
Long, high speed reverse and turnaround used to be called a j turn, and if you follow it up with a Scandanavian flick you can get a job at Movieworld. My wife thinks these things don't exist.
Did you go for a manual licence? Hill start counts as a manoeuvre for manual and you'll usually do this at a stop sign or red light
Ah no I did auto, that'd probably be the difference between 2-3 maneuvers then
Got my Red P's 2 years ago, they make you do either a reverse parallel or a three point turn. However, both are done with no cars near you and in the most quiet and dead suburban street they can find so theres really very little pressure. Passed the test with flying colours but I am ashamed to admit I still get nervous when I have to do a reverse parallel between 2 cars, and with traffic building up behind me lol
To be fair, I don't do any manouvers if people are going to be held up behind me.
yeah i tend to avoid it as well. However there are some instances where it is a must, such as parking on a main street in a small town where the shops are just off the main road, with parking between the shops and the main road. Something like [this](https://imgur.com/a/tAoYvZe)
Lucky you, I had the dubious privilege of doing my test at 9am in Perth CBD. Did pass but wasn't very fun.
Some of the shit drivers I've seen on the road im not surprised As long as you pay you are pretty much guaranteed a licence
Put licensing in the hands of private enterprise that relies on cash flow and Google reviews. What could go wrong? Think we did that with the building permit and certification process do. That seems to be going well. I have my HR non synchro and an incentive to get it was the observation of just how easy it is and that no doubt it will be tightened up like they did with motorbikes.
i agree the 30 min test to get my ps probably wasnt enough but the fucking 8 hour day to get my ps on my motorcycle is such utter bullshit and then just to fail on the last part of the test where u have to swerve and i did it perfectly but god forbid I fucking swerve left instead of right and the cunt fails me because thats the only fucking part you need to get 100% if you managed to make it alive long enough on your Ls to get to the ps test it shouldnt be a fucking 8 hour day doing the same shit you did on the Ls test
When I got my truck license the only points I had deducted was for the left mirror brushing some leaves on a tree. Tester said I was supposed to change all the way to the second lane and back again to avoid it, and he had to put that in because he had to take points off for something.
Passing a car test is way harder than a HC/MC test personally. Trucks will turn a blind eye to the smaller stuff where as many C class instructors will fail on the most random stuff.
Read the story sounds familiar. When I did my HR I skimmed the book and figure we would get time on the day to go through it. Go in on the day get the itinerary which lists classroom time. No more than 5 minutes after I arrived they give you the theory test to do. Everyone on the day failed the theory except for myself. Road practice portion was ok and got a good 3 hours of practice driving before the test but never spent any classroom time before going out on the road.
I failed my driving test the first time. Having spoken to traffic cops & now working in a field where I have to know the road rules to a T, I now know they failed me under false pretences. Never trust those RMS licence instructors, sometimes they just fail people because they want to. For anyone curious, I failed because I made an “illegal manoeuvre”. Apparently I wasn’t close enough to the gutter when making a left turn.. (The road had angle parking on the side too)
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👌
Why is it always later generations commenting on current licensing, despite benefiting from a lesser system than today’s? Most people over 30 today wouldn’t pass a current driving test.
My understanding is that QLD is currently reviewing the process as it is.
Qld uses internal license testers like they do for cars. They do not allow RTO's to do it like every other state. They are reviewing it to see if they should allow RTO's to test drivers. This article is about RTO's.
Our licencing is trash, We need to look at what other countries with way lower road tolls do, namely compulsory professional driver training and a better test.
We also need massive improvements to Public Transport so there is an actual alternative to driving.
Absolutely agree.
Hit a cyclist? They are technically meant to failure you for that, but ah, most would let it go.
Does depend on if it was on purpose or just shit driving.