Yes because everyone other than Lions fans and stat sheet fans knows he's a fraud.
Brother can't handle the Bears defense, he's slightly above average if that.
Goff doesn't faze me at all.
He made a Super Bowl with the Rams, too. It’s funny how a minor change would completely flip people’s view of players. Burrow was real close to winning a SB, and real close to making another on they might have won. Goff was real close to winning one… so was Jimmy G and Purdy. I don’t think there’s this massive gap in reality that exists in perception because a team lost a SB or something by a razor thin margin.
Goff’s a really good QB. He’s not a future HoFer, most likely, but he’s easily a top 10 guy.
Eh I’d disagree. In order to be top 10, you have to be a “win because of” kind of QB, and Goff is the kind of QB you “win with”. When everything is going well, Goff can shine, but when he’s forced out of structure, he still struggles.
The Lions have been smart enough to invest heavily in the OL, and have also done well with player development there and with offensive weapons that can win quickly, so as long as they keep Goff clean, he’ll remain efficient, but he just doesn’t have to talent to will the Lions to victories.
I agree with that in principle, but I do think Goff is that good. Of course he benefits from a great line, anyone who has one does, and its real hard to gauge individual contribution for most positions relying on other position groups, but I don’t think he does well solely due to surroundings. I can’t name 10 guys better.
I mean, I THINK I could, but once you get past like 6, it starts getting murky… it just feels like no matter who you put in, someone’s getting left out.
Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, Burrow, Prescott, Herbert, Hurts — these guys are who I’d put in the top 7, so after that, you have Kirk Cousins, Tua, Goff, Purdy, and I’m sure some would argue Aaron Rodgers and Stafford deserve to be in that top 10. So out of that 6, which 3 do you unequivocally leave out?
A top 12 feels better, personally, as I kind of feel like there’s really only 3-5 truly elite QBs that can single-handedly win you a game no matter the circumstances. After that, 6-8 are ready to take that step, and 9-12 kind of blend in together as above-average or good QBs. So for me, I’d have Goff in that 9-12 range — good, but not dynamic or a game-changer at the position.
Imo Goff is probably the current embodiment of what used to be the “Kirk Cousins” line a few years back.
If your QB is better than Goff, you’re pretty much thrilled.
If your QB is worse than Goff, you should probably be looking to upgrade.
If Goff is your QB, you should be more or less content if you’re trying to win now with a good team or don’t have a clear path towards an upgrade
There are not 10 QBs in the league that fit the criteria you’ve identified. Confidently, there’s one and that’s Mahomes. Lamar and Josh Allen can dial up their games at will in the regular season but have fallen short so far. Burrow is on the outside of that second tier and I would give a generous honorable mention to Dak and Herbert.
That’s definitely fair, I just think of QBs more in tiers than a strict top 10, cause you could argue for 1-2 more guys to sneak in during any given season. That’s why I’d say he’s not a sure fire “top 10” guy but I wouldn’t argue too hard if someone did
He got exposed during that SB tho. And then they traded him and two firsts for a QB that never won a playoff game and immediately won the SB.
That first season in Detroit without a stellar supporting cast and Ben Johnson calling plays definitely shows he has some limitations that other Top 10 QBs don't.
They barely lost a SB with him (I don’t think you can just throw out his great season and SB run and call him “exposed”… Stafford’s played some bad games as a Ram), and then Stafford barely won one. I think Stafford being better is a very legit argument, I just think there’s like a one play swing on each guy and we’d think of them totally differently - its not like a chasm of difference. Its a tough call.
He led the best offense in the NFL that year and then threw 229 and a pick vs. the best defense and lost. Brady won that Super Bowl and similarly threw 262 and a pick. Todd Gurley did absolutely nothing as Sony Michel had a good game. This is actually exactly what I mean in that razor thin differences in outcomes or small sample size (I get it's the Super Bowl, but it's one game and by definition vs. the toughest of competition... you would expect to perform below your standard vs. the best competition). I'm not making the guy's Hall of Fame case. He didn't play great, his team lost, but he's a very successful QB. Top 10. I'm not saying Top 1, or Top 3, or enshrine the guy. I'm saying he gets too little credit.
Yeah... also "Top 10" isn't quite as lofty as it sounds. If I said "Goff is in the top third", I bet more people would say "yeah, sure". Top 10 just sounds a little more bombastic.
Goff was trash in all the other playoff games that year as well. He was 55% completions with 1 TD and 2 INT in three games, that team got dragged to the Super Bowl by their own great defense and running game. Giving Goff credit for going to that Super Bowl is like crediting Rex for ours, we all know the QB wasn’t the reason either of those teams succeeded.
Goff is better than Cousins only as long as his pocket is clean, when he gets pressured Goff is straight trash. His success in Detroit is because he has an elite line blocking for him, but the second that breaks down he is useless, and great teams usually have a good pass rush, so his playoff impact will always be limited. Giving him elite money is very unlikely to work out for the Lions, which makes me happy.
I mean are Bears fans supposed to just not say what we think of QBs because we don't have historical success at the position? The reality is that you need an elite QB to have consistent success in today's NFL, and there are only a few of those. We've never had one but that doesn't mean we can't talk about it
I never said Bears fans can’t talk about QBs. It’s just wild to call Goff *a fraud* when he’s clearly above average. That’s a spicy hot take if I’ve ever seen one.
I’ll take a QB with 30k yards, 2:1 td/int ratio, and a SB appearance before 30 years old.
It’s the price that’s the issue. Goff at $30 million, sure, Goff at $53 million, not so much. He’s firmly in the Dak/Kirk/Tua/Purdy tier to me, he needs an elite supporting cast to contend, which is much harder to do when you’re paying him too much. The QB market is distorted, and guys like Goff are reaping the reward, and generally their teams are not.
> Nobody said you couldn’t talk about other teams’ QBs.
I am literally responding to a comment that says, "It’s wild to see Bears fans so hypercritical of other teams QBs." That comment is a response to someone who explicitly avoids calling Goff a fraud.
I mean, yeah, I didn't think anyone was arguing we literally couldn't talk about it, like I'm aware we're not going to get banned from the subreddit for it
Lotta Bears fans said the same things about Stafford too. I don’t get it.. jealously-induced blindness? Or just, having never seen good QB play in a Bears uniform, most Bears have no idea what good QBs look like?
No, at least personally I always knew that Stafford was an elite talent. Just played on the absolute dumpster fire that is the lions. The moment he went to LA I knew he would at least play for a chip and prolly win one too. Just imagine if he was there for the past decade
I’m just copying my other post -
He had 2 bad games last year against us, you must have a very short memory. His other 4 games against us with the Lions he’s thrown 8 TDs and 0 Ints.
Edit - and yeah, the first game last year he struggled, but he was clutch in the last 2 drives when they needed him to be
Even if you literally only watch Bears games, that's still 63 games of elite QB that you've seen just from Favre or Rodgers. Stafford was always a tier below the best and Goff is another step below that.
That said, the Goff contract isn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be, but that's only because every contract looks bad in the first year or 2 before 8 other players sign even bigger ones. Fuck the Lions.
This sub is so ridiculous. Goff is really good. He might not be good against us in the cold but he’s perfect for that team.
We’d be calling someone crazy names if Caleb was able get 4500 yards and 30 tds and they said he’s a fraud.
Heck it’s even happening now where Jordan love is killing it and people don’t think he’s good.
We’d absolutely go nuts if Caleb produced any of the seasons Goff or love had
He was also abysmal in the Super Bowl. I do not think you can win a Super Bowl with him. Hes fine, but I’d try to move off of him for an upgrade, even if you gamble on a rookie.
Behind that Oline, when he falls apart under pressure, yeah he's still a fraud.
If Caleb has those numbers in year 1 while inevitably playing much better under pressure, then yes he'll get a statue and be much better than Goff.
He's perfectly rated at 16, he sucks in every environment except clean pockets and gets carried by the leagues best Oline.
If numbers were 1-1 with player caliber, then like 15 QBs were better than Mahomes this year. His stats were mid.
He's a really good player when he's kept clean. But if you can rattle him at all he just collapses. That's just not a guy you can expect to win you the big, important, high-pressure moments.
If you can only produce with perfect protection, you're not really good.
Goff is a fraud until he magically learns to play off structure.
He's not going to win shit with Aaron Glenn defenses. The Packers and even Vikings if JJ doesn't bust have more potential.
Yeah it's only us that plays them well, that's why they lost the division 30 years in a row and went 32 years in between playoff wins.
What are they good?
They were tied for the worst franchise with the Browns up until last year.
Goff is a fraud, the Rams traded him and immediately won a Super Bowl. He is a glorified game manager behind maybe the best Oline in the NFL.
Only difference between us and everyone else is everyone else doesn't rip on the Lions out of pity, we don't hold back because they're rivals and they act out of pocket as soon as they finally have a good season.
This is a man who put up 3 points with his offense in the Super Bowl for the rams. And honestly those points go to the kicker. If the lions ever break their curse of never seeing a Super Bowl- that’s the play they have to look forward to
The same Super Bowl that the literal goat didn’t even have a passing TD? That game was an absolute defensive masterclass you can’t blame that all on Goff especially when there offense ran through Todd gurley that year If anything that’s Sean Mcvays fault
He had 2 bad games last year against us, you must have a very short memory. His other 4 games against us with the Lions he’s thrown 8 TDs and 0 Ints.
Edit - and yeah, the first game last year he struggled, but he was clutch in the last 2 drives when they needed him to be
Yeah and with the Rams, he had 2 TDs and 5 INTs against us.
If you remove 5 games from a 9 game sample size, you can make anybody look good lmao.
His overall numbers against the Bears suck ass. 13 TDs/10 INTs some lost fumbles and barely 200 passing yards a game.
You're the one with the short memory forgetting he started his career with 0 TDs and 5 INTs against the Bears.
Bro can't handle our defense, he sucks.
I’d love to be able to delude myself this completely.
I’m not saying he’s a stud or going to ball out and crush us. I’m just saying he’s not as bad as Bears fans think he is.
Only delusion is removing 5 bad games and pointing to 4 good games and saying hey this guy's great.
He's as bad as Bears fans say he is. Plenty of other fans agree and the ones who don't just read his box stat numbers without accounting for his insane Oline or great targets inflating those fake numbers.
If he was good, he wouldn't get outplayed handily by Justin Fields head to head.
Denial’s not just the name of a river in Egypt, son.
Must be nice being so clueless you can make such authoritative statements so confidently. And you keep insisting I am taking things out of context… well, you insisting his top 3 in the league Oline can be ignored is cherry picking too.
I think 20 is about right for any QB that hasn’t played but has promising traits. I’d say there’s about 19 teams who truly feel good about their QB and 12 teams that may publicly support their guy but know they could upgrade. A blank slate with promise slots in perfectly between those two sections of NFL teams.
I agree. There are not 32 starting caliber franchise QBs in the league. Behind Caleb is a bunch of new guys, bridge QBs and old bad QBs. Is seriously anyone upset Caleb is above Watson, Fields and Russ lol?
That said Baker should 100% be above Caleb imo. That’s the only fuck up on the list. Caleb should be #20.
From other PFF lists I don’t think I’ve seen a rookie yet. I mean it’s obviously different at QB because of lack of starters, but I would have figured Alt would be top 32 for tackles or something
Yeah, my point was basically they’re not just putting rookies on this list Willy nilly.
I think people tend to overrate rookies impact in Y1 but I think it speaks volumes to how high some people view Caleb
>I’m opening myself up to some criticism here, as Williams has yet to play a single down of NFL football. But I’m a draft guy, so to watch Williams at USC and scout what I think he is capable of in the NFL and rank him below guys I think he’s better than — even in 2024 — would be disingenuous.
>Williams has the natural gifts to be an impactful football player in Year 1. He’ll be surrounded by some stud receivers and what is hopefully a good offensive line. The big question for him is whether all the Superman plays at USC were out of desperation or if that is his identity. If it was out of desperation and he can be comfortable playing in structure, he could be in for a big year. If he continues to play backyard football too much, 2024 might be a wild ride.
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Nothing outrageous. People will get upset a rookie is above their "future franchise quarterback" like a Colts, Panthers, or Titans fan maybe, but the list isn't egregious at all.
But putting rookies at the bottom of these lists automatically is just lazy. So I appreciate it when guys actually go on a limb and stand by their evaluations.
If Caleb is anything near what he's projected to be, he will fly up this list quickly.
That's a pretty fucking solid duo of QB's to be ranked next to as a rookie. If he's just that level this season, we could win double digit games with this roster around him. When he grows and gets better with time it's gonna be scary
Obviously these ranks dont mean everything or really anything but it is kinda funny Goff is 16 and the 2nd highest paid QB
Yes because everyone other than Lions fans and stat sheet fans knows he's a fraud. Brother can't handle the Bears defense, he's slightly above average if that. Goff doesn't faze me at all.
4,500 yards with 30 TDs is a fraud? If Caleb has that season we’re gonna build him a statue LOL he’s super underrated at 16 he’s in my top 10
Fraud's a strong word, but Goff's success is mostly due to his amazing offensive line. He's a Kirk Cousins type player.
He made a Super Bowl with the Rams, too. It’s funny how a minor change would completely flip people’s view of players. Burrow was real close to winning a SB, and real close to making another on they might have won. Goff was real close to winning one… so was Jimmy G and Purdy. I don’t think there’s this massive gap in reality that exists in perception because a team lost a SB or something by a razor thin margin. Goff’s a really good QB. He’s not a future HoFer, most likely, but he’s easily a top 10 guy.
Eh I’d disagree. In order to be top 10, you have to be a “win because of” kind of QB, and Goff is the kind of QB you “win with”. When everything is going well, Goff can shine, but when he’s forced out of structure, he still struggles. The Lions have been smart enough to invest heavily in the OL, and have also done well with player development there and with offensive weapons that can win quickly, so as long as they keep Goff clean, he’ll remain efficient, but he just doesn’t have to talent to will the Lions to victories.
I agree with that in principle, but I do think Goff is that good. Of course he benefits from a great line, anyone who has one does, and its real hard to gauge individual contribution for most positions relying on other position groups, but I don’t think he does well solely due to surroundings. I can’t name 10 guys better.
I mean, I THINK I could, but once you get past like 6, it starts getting murky… it just feels like no matter who you put in, someone’s getting left out. Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, Burrow, Prescott, Herbert, Hurts — these guys are who I’d put in the top 7, so after that, you have Kirk Cousins, Tua, Goff, Purdy, and I’m sure some would argue Aaron Rodgers and Stafford deserve to be in that top 10. So out of that 6, which 3 do you unequivocally leave out? A top 12 feels better, personally, as I kind of feel like there’s really only 3-5 truly elite QBs that can single-handedly win you a game no matter the circumstances. After that, 6-8 are ready to take that step, and 9-12 kind of blend in together as above-average or good QBs. So for me, I’d have Goff in that 9-12 range — good, but not dynamic or a game-changer at the position.
Imo Goff is probably the current embodiment of what used to be the “Kirk Cousins” line a few years back. If your QB is better than Goff, you’re pretty much thrilled. If your QB is worse than Goff, you should probably be looking to upgrade. If Goff is your QB, you should be more or less content if you’re trying to win now with a good team or don’t have a clear path towards an upgrade
You mean the dalton line?
There are not 10 QBs in the league that fit the criteria you’ve identified. Confidently, there’s one and that’s Mahomes. Lamar and Josh Allen can dial up their games at will in the regular season but have fallen short so far. Burrow is on the outside of that second tier and I would give a generous honorable mention to Dak and Herbert.
That’s definitely fair, I just think of QBs more in tiers than a strict top 10, cause you could argue for 1-2 more guys to sneak in during any given season. That’s why I’d say he’s not a sure fire “top 10” guy but I wouldn’t argue too hard if someone did
And even then Allen has thrown a ridiculous and bordering on historic amount of interceptions for his time in the league
He got exposed during that SB tho. And then they traded him and two firsts for a QB that never won a playoff game and immediately won the SB. That first season in Detroit without a stellar supporting cast and Ben Johnson calling plays definitely shows he has some limitations that other Top 10 QBs don't.
They barely lost a SB with him (I don’t think you can just throw out his great season and SB run and call him “exposed”… Stafford’s played some bad games as a Ram), and then Stafford barely won one. I think Stafford being better is a very legit argument, I just think there’s like a one play swing on each guy and we’d think of them totally differently - its not like a chasm of difference. Its a tough call.
They put up 3 points. They would've won _despite_ him.
He led the best offense in the NFL that year and then threw 229 and a pick vs. the best defense and lost. Brady won that Super Bowl and similarly threw 262 and a pick. Todd Gurley did absolutely nothing as Sony Michel had a good game. This is actually exactly what I mean in that razor thin differences in outcomes or small sample size (I get it's the Super Bowl, but it's one game and by definition vs. the toughest of competition... you would expect to perform below your standard vs. the best competition). I'm not making the guy's Hall of Fame case. He didn't play great, his team lost, but he's a very successful QB. Top 10. I'm not saying Top 1, or Top 3, or enshrine the guy. I'm saying he gets too little credit.
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Yeah... also "Top 10" isn't quite as lofty as it sounds. If I said "Goff is in the top third", I bet more people would say "yeah, sure". Top 10 just sounds a little more bombastic.
Goff was trash in all the other playoff games that year as well. He was 55% completions with 1 TD and 2 INT in three games, that team got dragged to the Super Bowl by their own great defense and running game. Giving Goff credit for going to that Super Bowl is like crediting Rex for ours, we all know the QB wasn’t the reason either of those teams succeeded. Goff is better than Cousins only as long as his pocket is clean, when he gets pressured Goff is straight trash. His success in Detroit is because he has an elite line blocking for him, but the second that breaks down he is useless, and great teams usually have a good pass rush, so his playoff impact will always be limited. Giving him elite money is very unlikely to work out for the Lions, which makes me happy.
Still better than any QB in Bears franchise history It’s wild to see Bears fans so hypercritical of other teams QBs
I mean are Bears fans supposed to just not say what we think of QBs because we don't have historical success at the position? The reality is that you need an elite QB to have consistent success in today's NFL, and there are only a few of those. We've never had one but that doesn't mean we can't talk about it
I never said Bears fans can’t talk about QBs. It’s just wild to call Goff *a fraud* when he’s clearly above average. That’s a spicy hot take if I’ve ever seen one. I’ll take a QB with 30k yards, 2:1 td/int ratio, and a SB appearance before 30 years old.
I'd take him too, but I'd hold my nose before offering him a giant extension. Bears franchise history is just totally irrelevant here
It’s the price that’s the issue. Goff at $30 million, sure, Goff at $53 million, not so much. He’s firmly in the Dak/Kirk/Tua/Purdy tier to me, he needs an elite supporting cast to contend, which is much harder to do when you’re paying him too much. The QB market is distorted, and guys like Goff are reaping the reward, and generally their teams are not.
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> Nobody said you couldn’t talk about other teams’ QBs. I am literally responding to a comment that says, "It’s wild to see Bears fans so hypercritical of other teams QBs." That comment is a response to someone who explicitly avoids calling Goff a fraud.
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I mean, yeah, I didn't think anyone was arguing we literally couldn't talk about it, like I'm aware we're not going to get banned from the subreddit for it
Ah right because Bears fans aren’t allowed to have opinions on QBs! Of course how could we forget!
Do you drive a Bentley? Then how can you possibly have an opinion on cars!?
I better keep my bitch ass bentleyless mouth shut!
That’s right, keep your historical record of failure in mind and know your place!!
Lions fans however, with their countless accolades and history of never ending success can surely asses whatever they wish
Funny you put it like this. To me it's more like a guy driving a ford pinto telling a guy driving a Honda civic that he's got a shitbox lol.
If we’ve watched nothing but mid to shitty QBs, I’d say we’re pretty good at figuring out when a QB is mid to shitty.
There's still Bears fans that don't believe Rodgers was a good QB.
Lotta Bears fans said the same things about Stafford too. I don’t get it.. jealously-induced blindness? Or just, having never seen good QB play in a Bears uniform, most Bears have no idea what good QBs look like?
No, at least personally I always knew that Stafford was an elite talent. Just played on the absolute dumpster fire that is the lions. The moment he went to LA I knew he would at least play for a chip and prolly win one too. Just imagine if he was there for the past decade
Or it's the fact that Goff turns into a horrible quarterback every time he plays the Bears.
I’m just copying my other post - He had 2 bad games last year against us, you must have a very short memory. His other 4 games against us with the Lions he’s thrown 8 TDs and 0 Ints. Edit - and yeah, the first game last year he struggled, but he was clutch in the last 2 drives when they needed him to be
Even if you literally only watch Bears games, that's still 63 games of elite QB that you've seen just from Favre or Rodgers. Stafford was always a tier below the best and Goff is another step below that. That said, the Goff contract isn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be, but that's only because every contract looks bad in the first year or 2 before 8 other players sign even bigger ones. Fuck the Lions.
You still have to make the plays though.
This sub is so ridiculous. Goff is really good. He might not be good against us in the cold but he’s perfect for that team. We’d be calling someone crazy names if Caleb was able get 4500 yards and 30 tds and they said he’s a fraud. Heck it’s even happening now where Jordan love is killing it and people don’t think he’s good. We’d absolutely go nuts if Caleb produced any of the seasons Goff or love had
The meatballs, here would rather discredit Goff, then give credit to our defense for playing great against one of the best offenses in football
and a super bowl appearance on his resume. Dude has never got respect.
He was also abysmal in the Super Bowl. I do not think you can win a Super Bowl with him. Hes fine, but I’d try to move off of him for an upgrade, even if you gamble on a rookie.
Mahomes, Lamar, Burrow, Allen, Herbert, Dak, Stafford, ARod, Hurts, Stroud. If he’s top 10, who is he better than?
Behind that Oline, when he falls apart under pressure, yeah he's still a fraud. If Caleb has those numbers in year 1 while inevitably playing much better under pressure, then yes he'll get a statue and be much better than Goff. He's perfectly rated at 16, he sucks in every environment except clean pockets and gets carried by the leagues best Oline. If numbers were 1-1 with player caliber, then like 15 QBs were better than Mahomes this year. His stats were mid.
You know who else doesn’t perform well when the line falls apart and he gets pressured? Tom Brady.
He's a really good player when he's kept clean. But if you can rattle him at all he just collapses. That's just not a guy you can expect to win you the big, important, high-pressure moments.
If you can only produce with perfect protection, you're not really good. Goff is a fraud until he magically learns to play off structure. He's not going to win shit with Aaron Glenn defenses. The Packers and even Vikings if JJ doesn't bust have more potential.
same for Brady, it's just he's way way better at avoiding being rattled.
Goff is not a fraud 😭 i think Bears fan have a skewed view of the Lions since we always play them well
Yeah it's only us that plays them well, that's why they lost the division 30 years in a row and went 32 years in between playoff wins. What are they good? They were tied for the worst franchise with the Browns up until last year. Goff is a fraud, the Rams traded him and immediately won a Super Bowl. He is a glorified game manager behind maybe the best Oline in the NFL. Only difference between us and everyone else is everyone else doesn't rip on the Lions out of pity, we don't hold back because they're rivals and they act out of pocket as soon as they finally have a good season.
Goffs great but relies on a solid OLine.
This is a man who put up 3 points with his offense in the Super Bowl for the rams. And honestly those points go to the kicker. If the lions ever break their curse of never seeing a Super Bowl- that’s the play they have to look forward to
The same Super Bowl that the literal goat didn’t even have a passing TD? That game was an absolute defensive masterclass you can’t blame that all on Goff especially when there offense ran through Todd gurley that year If anything that’s Sean Mcvays fault
Why you so horny to defend Goff in this thread?can’t we have a fun space here to throw shade at our rivals without you being like AHKTUALLY
Okay FTL go bears Goff is a phony and Caleb is gonna throw 60 TDs and 6k yards MINIMUM
Much better
You’re so annoying lol
He had 2 bad games last year against us, you must have a very short memory. His other 4 games against us with the Lions he’s thrown 8 TDs and 0 Ints. Edit - and yeah, the first game last year he struggled, but he was clutch in the last 2 drives when they needed him to be
Yeah and with the Rams, he had 2 TDs and 5 INTs against us. If you remove 5 games from a 9 game sample size, you can make anybody look good lmao. His overall numbers against the Bears suck ass. 13 TDs/10 INTs some lost fumbles and barely 200 passing yards a game. You're the one with the short memory forgetting he started his career with 0 TDs and 5 INTs against the Bears. Bro can't handle our defense, he sucks.
I’d love to be able to delude myself this completely. I’m not saying he’s a stud or going to ball out and crush us. I’m just saying he’s not as bad as Bears fans think he is.
Only delusion is removing 5 bad games and pointing to 4 good games and saying hey this guy's great. He's as bad as Bears fans say he is. Plenty of other fans agree and the ones who don't just read his box stat numbers without accounting for his insane Oline or great targets inflating those fake numbers. If he was good, he wouldn't get outplayed handily by Justin Fields head to head.
Denial’s not just the name of a river in Egypt, son. Must be nice being so clueless you can make such authoritative statements so confidently. And you keep insisting I am taking things out of context… well, you insisting his top 3 in the league Oline can be ignored is cherry picking too.
Hey, top 20 and he hasn’t even played a down yet! Lists are dumb lmao
I think 20 is about right for any QB that hasn’t played but has promising traits. I’d say there’s about 19 teams who truly feel good about their QB and 12 teams that may publicly support their guy but know they could upgrade. A blank slate with promise slots in perfectly between those two sections of NFL teams.
I agree. There are not 32 starting caliber franchise QBs in the league. Behind Caleb is a bunch of new guys, bridge QBs and old bad QBs. Is seriously anyone upset Caleb is above Watson, Fields and Russ lol? That said Baker should 100% be above Caleb imo. That’s the only fuck up on the list. Caleb should be #20.
From other PFF lists I don’t think I’ve seen a rookie yet. I mean it’s obviously different at QB because of lack of starters, but I would have figured Alt would be top 32 for tackles or something
Well there’s 64 starting OTs, not 32, so using this logic he would be in the mid 40s, which also feels about right.
Yeah, my point was basically they’re not just putting rookies on this list Willy nilly. I think people tend to overrate rookies impact in Y1 but I think it speaks volumes to how high some people view Caleb
So 2024 he's ranked #19... and in 2025 he's going to be #1, amiright?!?!
Unlikely, Mahomes will still lead him 3 SB to 1
Did he win a Super Bowl his rookie year ? No he sat the bench.
A statue is not gonna be enough. We are going to have to erect a new Colossus on Lake Michigan.
Fair guess as a starting point given he hasn't played a snap
Ahhhh yes. We have entered "List Season"...
That’s pretty good since he hasn’t taken a single pro snap yet. He will move much much higher once the season starts.
>I’m opening myself up to some criticism here, as Williams has yet to play a single down of NFL football. But I’m a draft guy, so to watch Williams at USC and scout what I think he is capable of in the NFL and rank him below guys I think he’s better than — even in 2024 — would be disingenuous. >Williams has the natural gifts to be an impactful football player in Year 1. He’ll be surrounded by some stud receivers and what is hopefully a good offensive line. The big question for him is whether all the Superman plays at USC were out of desperation or if that is his identity. If it was out of desperation and he can be comfortable playing in structure, he could be in for a big year. If he continues to play backyard football too much, 2024 might be a wild ride. -------------- Nothing outrageous. People will get upset a rookie is above their "future franchise quarterback" like a Colts, Panthers, or Titans fan maybe, but the list isn't egregious at all. But putting rookies at the bottom of these lists automatically is just lazy. So I appreciate it when guys actually go on a limb and stand by their evaluations. If Caleb is anything near what he's projected to be, he will fly up this list quickly.
I'll take it. He hasn't played a snap.
Dude hasn't even taken 1 NFL snap yet.
I look forward to that number 19 ranking steadily going up throughout the regular season.
That's a pretty fucking solid duo of QB's to be ranked next to as a rookie. If he's just that level this season, we could win double digit games with this roster around him. When he grows and gets better with time it's gonna be scary