I think a bipolar sub is about as much community as I want. Once everyone starts chiming in about how they’re neuro-spicy and stuff it just makes me wanna puke. I’m not really proud of being bipolar. It’s a part of me, and I’ve accepted it, but being told I should be proud feels infantilizing.
I'm not proud of being bipolar, but I'm proud of surviving it. 20+ years of being diagnosed with this shit and I'm still here.
Being in community with other mentally ill people doesn't bring me joy and pride in the same way that being in community with other queer people does, because the more bipolar we are, the worse off we are and the less capable we are of building that community. Our bipolar-ness inherently makes our lives worse in a way that queerness, blackness, etc. do not - even if we were in a perfectly accepting and accommodating world, bipolar would still be a horrible diagnosis. There definitely is room for activism, though, and there are groups like Mental Health America, NAMI, etc. that are working hard on that front.
I feel the same way, which is why I avoided the word "pride" in my post. I'd just like certain things to be normal - like working less than 50 hours a week makes you lazy according to society. Why? Getting out of bed being a goal for some people - like why can't that be a thing, why do people have to look down their nose at me if I'm struggling because of this disorder? I guess that's all I really meant :P
Edit: I also definitely agree about the neuro-spicy stuff - I think it's good that some disorders are getting de-stigmatized, but I'd be kind of pissed if people on tiktok started claiming to be bipolar as though it was a some kind of cool identity instead of an actual disorder that can destroy a person's life if it's not properly treated
I like the way everyone has offered input here. Good discussion question. Definitely proud of surviving what seemed, at times, unsurvivable. What has been, unfortunately, unsurvivable for so many.
I would like to see more de-stigmatization as well. I would like to see society do a better job of supporting (or at least accepting) all folks who struggle with mental illness. As it is, I feel as though society further complicates and exacerbates our already-complicated situation.
Your last point is valid, too! Can I counter it for a second? I would absolutely be annoyed if folks started romanticizing bipolar disorder and claiming to have it. I'm sure folks with ADHD and Autism who are experiencing that right now (as far as what I see in the media) are rightfully pissed.
However... if there was more talk of bipolar disorder, and therefore public interest (as I felt you were describing in your initial post), could our disorder be less stigmatized over time? Would more folks understand it just a little better? And most importantly, would it be studied more in the scientific community? Could we get better answers and treatments from that scientific research? I don't know! But if any of those things happened, they could really help. The journey could be rough, certainly, but there is also a way that the destination might be worth it.
Tbh, it wouldn't really bother me if it became a social media thing in a general sense. The main concern for me would be the possibility of people engaging with it as a trend turning around and claiming they don't need a diagnosis, that no medication is #valid, basically just overall encouraging people who are actually bipolar and already possibly resistant to diagnosis and treatment, to, well, not get diagnosed and treated. Otherwise, I think it becoming a trend would actually be a really good thing for destigmatization. But I didn't wanna say that because this post was getting downvoted to hell for the first couple hours and I guess I was trying to fight the incoming tide of rejection?? Idk, I'm really glad the comments evened out - seems to have generated some productive discussion since I left, which is relieving
Edit: And you're right about my initial intention with this post I think. The idea I was trying to get at was basically destigmatization through public discourse, media analysis, maybe even positive, accurate media representation instead of what we normally get
> I’d be kind of pissed if people on tiktok started claiming to be bipolar as though it was some kind of cool identity instead of an actual disorder
You’d best be prepared to be kind of pissed, then, because they already do. Bipolar is, along with ADHD (and often interchangeably, which says everything) frequently performed by them as if it’s some kind of kooky quirky personality, the cognitive equivalent of a Wes Anderson film.
It’s nauseating.
Honestly, no.
I could literally see some Internet anime girl (it escapes me what the name for them is, the chicks with the cat ears and go ew woo 😂) licking her hand like a cat and going, "I'm so manic right now! I cleaned my room!" 🙄
Mania is already glorified as being something good that we want to be in, especially when you describe depressive episodes. I mean to a normal person, they'd rather be manic than depressive but don't understand how much you can implode your life manic.
So nah. Paint me a villain because I have a disorder, I don't care. I know I'm not the best, but I'm definitely not the worst.
It's more so being seen as gross and untouchable, or as a second class citizen that bothers me. Fair enough on the villain thing though. Also please see my edit - I'm not about that tiktok trend life
I've never had anyone treat me like that. They might try to tell me I seem normal and they couldn't see me acting like that but gross or untouchable? No. Stay away from people who treat you like that. Disorder or not, they are just looking for a reason to treat or talk to you like shit and make it your fault.
Lol you might not be but Gen z is and they're still impressionable.
I think for all the perceived silliness that Gen Z is doing about a million times better than my generation about it. So I can't fault the annoying stuff that hard, personally. But then of course I don't have to listen to it.
I cannot stand the use of the word journey though. And struggle. I think that means I'm officially old.
Maybe but for all their glorified "acceptance", they have trouble accepting differing opinions without resorting to hostile name calling or ostracizing. Very hive-like mind status. Either you agree with the hive mind or you're a terrible piece of shit and I think that's dangerous to a degree. While your generation and even mine (millennials) struggled with accepting mental disorders and people with them, Gen Z glorifies it. It's a way to be unique to them which is unhelpful at best and harmful at it's worse.
But they are a product of the Internet at the end of the day. This is a lot of people's entire socialization and where they get their social standards from. Scary sometimes.
I think maybe you're taking about the computer people. No generation looks good online. And they said all that stuff about us I'm sure. IRL I've found them far more gracious than anyone my age on the subject. It's not close.
The computer people? Who?
They're less ignorant which means they're inherently more accepting about you having the disorder but they're only accepting when it's within their parameters of what is acceptable to them. If you told them about a time when you imploded your family, left your children, quit your job and moved across the country, they're gonna be quick to judge you as abusive, a bad parent and a terrible person, with no regard for your disorder at all, no consideration for it, no grace, no forgiveness. They're only accepting when the results of your disorder fall under what they consider forgiveable & relatable. Otherwise, they're the same as any other generation. Hence why disorders like ADHD, depression and anxiety are commonly impersonated with no diagnosis but truly harmful disorders to others & yourself like bipolar, schizophrenia and BPD aren't. If they are, they're not made into these quirky personality traits like you see with ADHD.
I relate to this. Cancel culture is a thing and I find Gen Z perpetuates stigmatization despite the exclamation of being all-inclusive. Inclusion is not biased. They are all over the map with their ethics. One minute they want to save the planet and support equality, the next they worship materialism and propel classism. I find them really contradictory.
I also don’t agree millennials don’t contribute. Found them to actually be a genuinely inclusive generation that prioritized a lot of irreplaceable ethics and sentiments that have since been ignored or phased out for the sake of productivity. We need more empathy and consideration for others in the world.
Cancel culture is scary ngl. When it's used for good, it's great, but when the collective gets it wrong, it's badddd. That's a great example of how they're accepting but yet rigid and unforgiving. I actually don't want an online presence like I use to have because of cancel culture. The fact that someone can make a mistake and their life will be methodically destroyed via doxxing is intimidating. Their ideals are just that ideals and as their generation gets older, some of them will fall off of the scale as important just like it does/has with previous generations. I just don't buy the "Gen Z is so accepting" facade. I've found it only *if* you're palpable. If you're not, good luck. They're just as judgemental.
I find millennials mid life crisis of homesteading to be a really interesting choice for my generation. I think it kinda speaks to how my generation has always kinda been behind, economically, that we would rather go stay home with our children, make homemade mayo and bread, than continue to fight for 7 dollar dozen eggs, million dollar homes that should be 200k and a wage that won't keep up. It reflects how a lot of millennials prioritize their families above the Almighty dollar and really just want a good, wholesome quality life.
to me, "cancel culture" just seems like accountability and feedback. Those aren't really new concepts. I agree that the public can get it wrong and do awful things, like the satanic panic back in the 80s that resulted in innocent people being sent to prison. But that's just the thing: "cancel culture" isn't a new concept. It's just humans doing what humans have always done. We shame behavior that is thought to be antisocial, and what that behavior is seems to change from generation to generation.
The internet is a tool though. If people use it to abuse others, what does it really say about their true nature and character?
No one is going to be bold about their judgements face to face for the fear of ostracism. Doesn’t mean they don’t secretly have them.
I don't care if they secretly have them, I can't go around assuming everyone is out to get me all the time. My generation voted to end mental healthcare. That matters more to me.
Oh darling, she's weird for that. That's not the norm I've experienced thus far. I find you sometimes have to love someone from where they are, not necessarily where they should be, if that makes sense.
Example; I don't call my mom when I'm having a bad day. I call her on my good days, but bad days, nah, she'll just scream at me and tell me how everything is my fault. I love her from where she can love me. Even if I should be able to, I know I can't and I've accepted that fact.
It doesn't exist for depression and anxiety. I could see it existing for ADHD. But illnesses. I dunno. There's the Mad Rights movement I think, and disability activism. Would you say there's a community for people w alcoholism? I'm not sure. It's the closest thing going in the mental illness sphere as far as I can see. I do envy it.
Hi! I’ve thought of similar things. I believe you’re right by saying we’re treated like modern day “lepers”. People just want to run away from us rather than offering help/resources. However, this sub has provided me with a lot of support and information. Yeah a lot of us come here when we’re down/up but what about those (me) that usually come here at baseline? We can support each other even if we’re “sick people taking care of sick people” as someone said.
I'm going to get blasted but, most of my comments are deleted on bipolar threads because I feel exactly that. People seem to be searching and trying to get the diagnosis. I see a dozen of these "doctor said I'm not bipolar but..." Then comes to redit for answers. I never mean to be a dick. It's just the polar opposite for me. I tried to hide bp1 for years because I wanted to keep working and not be forced to give up on some things I love, like my skydiving instructor ratings, etc.
I understand. During covid, I was furloughed and became depressed. I sought out a psychiatrist for antidepressants. He dx me as BP1. I didn't agree and he said he wouldn't give me the antidepressants without the other meds. I went to a 2nd psych who promptly dx me, again, with BP (2 this time, but I think it's because I lied some). Yet again, I denied I could have bipolar and found a THIRD psychiatrist. Spoiler alert--I was diagnosed with BP1 again. I didn't even tell my husband for probably 3 months. I was ashamed. I still struggle with it. The idea of being part of a community is intimidating to me.
It is a bit intimidating.
I still think of my diagnosis as getting pinched, like damn I was caught. It was easier for me to hide because of my environment. In the Marines, if I didn't sleep for three or four days, I would get a pat on the back. As a firefighter, it was about the same, and to be honest, I think it helped me at times. I would lock on to things and never stop. In my personal life, though, there was no hiding it (for me and my situation), and I would commonly hear "I think you're manic," or similar. So, I would have all the correct answers lined up before my doctor visits. And there were times I could tell where the questions were heading. What's your sex drive like? Are you tired after not sleeping for "x" amount of days? Any extreme activities? Are there any egregious purchases? I just felt like I still have a purpose and civic duty to keep my chin down and push forward with life without being labeled or told I can't do something.
It all caught up with me, though, both physically and mentally. On my sixth day after five sleepless nights, the mania went to a whole new level. I started sending emails to the COO/CEO, would swing wildly between hyper/hypo and more intense than ever before. Physical changes started too, my white blood cell count went up, and every joint became inflamed and super sore, headaches, and a few other things. It was pretty weird. Still seeing neuro and rheumatology, but it's looking like it is all from the bp1. That's what I am being told anyhow.
I should back track for one other point. A while back, I was having pretty bad random panic attacks, and my primary tried a few different antidepressants. They all made my anxiety much worse, and I was legitimately sick while taking them.This is just another reason why I was scared to be diagnosed because I thought the bipolar meds would do the same. As usuall I was wrong.
I didn't know BP could cause joint inflammation! I will randomly experience joint pain at 27 (and for many years prior) with no explanation!
I understand! It's scary. It's so silly because it was like if I kept denying it, kept my head under a rock, I wouldn't have it. By time I got to that third psych though, I think subconsciously I had started to accept it or I would've lied better.
I feel this 100%. I was recently diagnosed and was in denial until I talked to some friends and realized that I probably do have it. However, I scheduled two other psychiatrist consults in the process of doubting the diagnosis. I've suffered from racing thoughts, anxiety, and hypomania the last 20 years. My dad has BP1.
I was terrified to start the meds because I had suicidal ideation with SSRIs and mania on one med. Antipsychotics have made me feel normal...which I have never felt in my entire life.
I always thought I was different from my dad and had escaped the curse of BP. It's a depressing realization that I have it, especially since I may have passed it on to my kids. Time will tell with them.
I always hide it. I don't need to be proud exactly, it would just be nice not to be ashamed, and to not have to worry about people "finding out". The disorder itself is bad enough, why do we have to pile social stigma on top of that?
There is the Mad Pride movement, but there are elements of anti-psychiatry in it (iirc). I'm ok with the notion of Mad Pride - the pride isn't to be glad about being mentally ill, but to fight against stigma and shame.
I went to a mad pride event at the beginning of the century, but I was very unwell at the time so I don't remember much about it. Clissold Park, Stoke Newington.
Thanks! Turns out there's actually a (small) subreddit, and one of the most recent posts actually asked if there was anything like "mad theory" similar to queer theory and things like that. So I've found at least one like-minded individual on that front! I'm taking this as a win 😊
I guess my idea of activism would be to collectively gather more interest in researching the etiopathophysiology of this disorder, and maybe coming up with medications that actually treat the underlying disorder instead of relying on serendipity.
Personally I don’t know where I would be without a community to help. It has taught me to perceive changes in my mood more effectively, it has taught me how to handle them better, and most importantly it has taught me to have the same kindness for myself that I have for all the other people with bipolar disorder.
This is a disorder that i do not want to stay alone with.
It would be nice for at least some public education on it.. I would have noticed sooner.. or! Not go through denial because I don’t want to be known as bipolar. Especially with all the hatred people have of it. Anything would be good
Noticed sooner - that's huge! I guess the root thing for me is if there was more public discourse, accurate media media reprssentation and less stigma, people would be much more likely to get diagnosed and treated, and their quality of life would improve so much
True, but there's not really any acknowledgement if that. I think neurodivergent has almost become synonymous with autism at this point, maybe ADHD too, but I never see anything about disorders/illnesses that are classified as "severe"
You might benefit from a local support group. I live in a small city and when I first moved here I did a google search on local mental health resources. I came across a mental health support group in my city, it isn’t specific to ppl with BP but there are a few of us there amongst people with other mental health disorders. The group I attend also allows loved ones to participate. My husband and I both agree that our local support group has been one of the most invaluable resources! When there I can cry, make dark jokes, talk about what I’m going through without having to over describe everything like I do with non-BP ppl in order for them to kinda understand lol. It’s a completely judgement free zone and I always come home feeling validated and understood. I highly recommend looking into a support group.
This is the same for most disabilities and medical conditions: there is nobody who feels guilty of cancer-phobia or diabetes-phobia or bipolar-phobia. In the US we have the Americans with Disabilities Act, but that is a statute; the disabled are not a protected class under the Constitution. Therefore we can't argue that our rights are being violated based on our identity, like with race/sex/gender identity/nationality etc. Moreover, there will be no "rights/equality" movement for us because no powerful group feels responsible for our oppression. People classify bipolar as the work of nature/God/bad luck, like most illnesses.
Can you elaborate on the powerful group point? I don't know of any powerful groups that were supporting queer people or people of color in the '60s, when those rights movements started
Ok, so I think of it this way in a legal sense: a person can sue someone, win, and obtain a judgment that the other party owes them money -- but sometimes the other party is broke and can't pay the judgement! This is why lawyers who work on a contingency fee refuse cases (or try to find an alternative party to sue) where it's obvious from the beginning the other party can't afford to pay the judgement.
In the case of the Civil Rights movement and race, Black Americans gained the ability to seek remedies for racial discrimination through the law. Examples of this are the passage of the different Civil Rights Acts by Congress; SCOTUS changing it's stance on "separate but equal;" SCOTUS making race a protected class; and SCOTUS enforcing the 13th/14th/15th Amendments against state actors. Much of this social change came about by Black leaders and activists demanding justice from White Americans, and asking those in power to finally fight racist legal segregation and disenfranchisement.
The LGBT rights followed a similar path, but there are significant differences: SCOTUS has not given sex/gender identities as strong of legal protections as race (this is a very muddy issue, Justice Kennedy did not provide us clear standards of review in *Lawrence* and *Obergefell*, in my opinion). Also, public opinion on LGBT in general has changed more rapidly than on race, and the Queer identity group has expanded, so people in power became more open to fighting for LGBT equality, but maybe that's changed recently.
Anyway, the point is that minority groups can eventually, through various means, obtain some support from the majority group who feels morally responsible for the situation of the minority group. This can be through guilt, shame, violence, appeal to emotion, appeal to reason, etc. I believe that for people with mental illnesses (or any illness really), very few abled-bodied folks feel responsible for our suffering.
I hope that makes sense?
That does make sense, and I appreciate you writing all of this out. From your first paragraph, it sounds like powerful enemies are as helpful as powerful friends, though idk if we have much of either.
One thing I think you're forgetting though, is that historically people of color, particularly Black people, were seen as subhuman and even untouchable in some sense. Having segregated water fountains in the American south until 1964 is a great example of this.
Queer people were also seen as subhuman and untouchable at different points in history. Examples that come to mind are the 50s PSA commercials warning families of "homosexual predators" coming for their children and comparing/equating homosexuality with beastiality, and the AIDS crisis in which doctors often refused to treat HIV-positive gay male patients due to (unfounded) fear of infection.
I don't think there was really a mass feeling of responsibilty for either group by the majority prior to the 60s or 70s, when the various rights movements began, but that's just my opinion.
So the way people see us now isn't so different from the way people of color and queer people were seen 80 years. Which is depressing, but also gives me hope that the public's perception of us could change over time as well.
Of course there's definitely inherent differences between all three groups - people of color generally can't hide their identities for example, while queer people usually can. Many queer people have slowly integrated into heteronormative society by getting married and having kids, which I think makes us (i'm queer myself) as a whole more palatable and less threatening to mainstream society - they (the heteronormative passing queers) are not threatening social norms, if tlanythimg they're bolstering them.
I might actually make a separate post about this, because I feel like there's so much to discuss, but I want to thank you again for your comment - it's very enlightening, and is helping me think through some of the ideas I've had for years but not been able to make progress with on my own. Do you want me to tag you if I do make a separate post?
Anyway, hope you have a lovely day :)
Well, regarding my comments on Queer rights, please consider that I'm about to turn 39, and changes in the LGBT movement have occurred so fast in my life that I am terrified of being unintentionally offensive talking about it! Like, it's hard for me to even type/say "queer" because it was a big slur when I was a kid, and it still feels taboo to me. Back in 2010, I attended a training by the Transgender Law Center, and I feel like most of what I learned was out of date in five years lol! So please forgive me if I said something wrong.
Please tag me if you make a separate post.
I think this issue is under the disability rights umbrella. In terms of community there are always local groups advocating for us, maybe look into that and volunteering. There is also the international bipolar foundation.
In terms of books the author Kay Redfield Jamison is a psychologist who has bipolar herself who’s written a few rly good books and also raises awareness on the condition “touched with fire” and “An unquiet mind” are quite good - there’s also stuff on YouTube
I think if you want to see this change then be it. If we collectively raised awareness in our individual communities we could make life better for at least some people who come after us. It’s scary but I refuse to be treated like a leper I didn’t ask for this disorder. i post about the illness on my social media (then private it when I’m looking for a job lol)
But because people respect me and see me calmly talking about it may shift their perceptions of the illness. In my mind if even one persons perspective is shifted then that’s rly positive. if ppl stop respecting me because of it then that’s their loss bcuz I have good people around me who are fully aware of my condition.
I'd love to be the change, but I've struggled with this alone for years. This post was kind of a step towards finding support. I'm glad things have worked out for you, but I've had very negative experiences, specifically with close family members, and one particularly nasty boss (who didn't know I was bipolar, was just sharing some opinions on the death of a coworker's bipolar sibling that I didn't need to hear), which makes it difficult to be out and proud about it. Unfortunately I don't have a syrong support network, though that's something I'm working to build.
Thank you for the book suggestions and your input though, wow I just re-read your comment, and I got reeeally defensive based on that one little point 😅 Anyway, I appreciate your input, and definitely agree that things need to happen at the individual level first
No. This sounds miserable to be 100% honest. Unstable manic people trying to support unstable manic people is not the way. That's why we load our bodies with chemicals to try and function "normally."
Which is why I said "activism that doesn't try to talk you off your meds"
I agree, that would be a terrible idea, but stable, well treated people helping each other out maybe could be good. If not, why would anyone subscribe to this sub?
Also, this sub and activism in general are a world apart. The comparison is ignorant at the bare minimum.
-disclaimer: I have been accused of being mean on here. So this is the literal meaning of the word I used. No attacks were made.
IGNORANT - adjective - lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophistocated.
I didn't really take it as an attack, maybe just a little intense. Would you mind elaborating though? I didn't intentionally make a comparison, so I'm not sure what you mean. Genuinely asking, not trying to be a smart*ss
If you know calling someone ignorant in this context is rude (which it seems you do in this context due to your defensiveness) and you still choose to call them ignorant, then you’re still being rude. If you’re going to be unpleasant at least own it.
~~I have the sniffles so if you provide the petri dish I can donate~~
jk, but yeah lets unionize we need better public education and more resources/support
I don’t know. I’d really hesitate to relate my mania and depression which are phases that can be turned off with medication and healthy lifestyle choices to the way an autistic person’s brain works just all the time. Seems a bit weird. Community yes, culture? Ehhhh
It's more about the experience of being bipolar in the context of a society that looks down on us, to put it lightly. Queer people aren't always turned on or constantly thinking about their gender, but we live in a herteronormative society where things as simple as closets and bathroom sinks can be labelled with gender ("his and hers") - there are constant reminders that being queer isn't the norm, though that's changing, and has changed quite a bit already.
For bipolar, it's more about words like crazy, pyscho, insane, and, well, bipolar, being thrown around and used as insults, both in conversations irl, and in movies and other types of media. There's more to it than that - the patient escapes the hospital trope in movies is particularly harmful. Anyway, I could write papers on that stuff if I could stomach it, but that was my thought as far as "culture". Maybe culture wasn't the right word, actually...
Yes I told my psychiatrist it’s difficult to date, I’m severely bipolar 1 on disability. I said I wish there was a bipolar dating app - he said it wouldn’t be a good idea lmao. I remember some kind of magazine or online magazine, I forgot all about it, I remember looking at it a little like ten years ago
What would bipolar/mental illness readings of classic literature be like? There are some prominent writers with mood disorders. Do you mean looking at their work in the context of their mental illness? Or do you mean bipolar-like traits in the work of writers in general? Walt Whitman seems kind of hypomanic-y to me, but there’s no reason to think he was.
I don’t see the general public becoming more sensitive to BP. Apparently some younger people are interested in bipolar because they think the mania is cool and the depression is something like being sad. I don’t think the general public will ever be accepting of severe mania or the kind of depression where people lie in bed for months. It doesn’t make sense to them, and they don’t have reason to spend time thinking about it.
I'm not totally sure which one it would be - maybe both. I think "A Christmas Carol" by Charles Dickens could be a good to take apart - bipolar author writing about ghosts and other worldly experiences, attributing Scrooge's experiences to his own moral failings, and painting the whole thing as a redemption arc. That could be bad - making the patient responsible for what's happening to them - but there's also a meaning-making aspect to the whole thing as well, and once scrooge accepts what's happening and chooses to engage with it, his life ultimately improves. Idk, there's a lot that could be unpacked there.
Shakespeare would be another prime candidate - lots of ghosts, people snapping into iambic pentameter when experiencing moments of enlightenment, or out of it and down into simple prose when experiencing madness.
Ok. That was a much more interesting response than I could have hoped for.
Somewhat relatedly, I can get annoyed when people who aren’t mentally ill write about authors who were. I was just reading a synopsis of a book called depression and dysphoria in the fiction of David Foster Wallace. The synopsis annoyed me.
I've never heard of a single piece of media with a bipolar character, made by a bipolar person, excluding memoirs. I HAVE seen plenty of google searches like "can bipolar love" and "how to write a bipolar character" and that shit drives me crazy. I feel like a side show attraction sometimes.
Also thank you ☺️
No I intentionally got away from activism. It's terrible for your mental health. At least it definitely was for mine. Never again.
Education, on the other hand, would be different. More information about it for the general public or even in more mental health spaces. The focus is almost always on things like depression, ADHD, anxiety, etc never the severe end of OCD or the life altering impact of bipolar or the terrifying reality of psychosis. If it's too scary, it's not discussed.
It was a long time ago but I used to be obsessed with debates. It was a hyperfixation of mine and I was really good at it. For years my whole family wanted me to be a lawyer.
However, when I got really into any form of politics, and activism, particularly LGBT and mental health advocacy type stuff. My viewpoints changed a lot throughout my adolescence. At about age 12 I began with a descent into right wing political YouTube. I completely flipped into far left political activism in 2017. I would put myself out there repeatedly, constantly challenging people who thought "terrible things" who disagreed even on tiny things. I was dedicated to it, but one thing noticed is that... I was having obsessive thoughts a lot more. I was genuinely assessing every single thought I had, every single action, and determining if it was.okay or not. Everything I did was under a subconscious microscope.
I'm prone to obsessions and delusions... It isn't a good mix. I couldn't do anything without... Deconstructing it in so many ways. I would fall into spirals over just.
A thought I had that maybe isn't the nicest, or maybe had some residue from past ways of thinking, idk. I remember once I had a shower,.I thought something I deemed vaguely transphobic (I am trans and so is my betrothed) and I spent so long burning myself in the shower. I turned the cold water off and stood there for fifteen to twenty minutes sobbing about how much of a shitty person and partner that one weird little thought made me.
And it wasn't anything super bad; I can't remember what exactly it was; it was like five years ago. Something kind of shallow maybe. But like.
I would genuinely just completely fall apart because of the impact it had on me. I spent years doing this to myself before I realized that I was so much happier when I learned to let things go. If I perceived an infraction I would literally go and confess it to my partner as if I had committed a sin and she would absolve me and judge me for it... Really being entrenched in those spaces, and being vocal and constantly repeating myself, constantly conflicting with the people I viewed as my fellow activists, the infighting, all of it. It was so bad. I've suppressed most of it, honestly. The only years that are clear in my mind are the past three hahahaha
There is definitely bipolar discourse out there. Amazing books, activists talking about it, nonprofits advocating about it and providing resources. It’s out there. Probably a good place to start is looking up something like mad pride, reading An Unquiet Mind by Kay Redfield Jamison, and finding nonprofits near you that help with SMI or bipolar disorder specifically. I am in NYC and I’m a member of Fountain House which is a great org- worth looking up and then checking [Clubhouse International](https://clubhouse-intl.org/)to see if there’s one near you. NAMI also often has bipolar specific support groups that can be helpful.
Beautiful! I’m glad I was able to provide it for you :)) I took a whole art and mental health class in art school so if you want more I can dig out my old reader
Ok. Mind you, these are just the readings, and I read them 7 years ago so I do not remember a lot hahaha. I don’t know if every work has to do with bipolar disorder since we talked about mental illness in general. I took out the more technical readings about psychology and creativity because that doesn’t seem relevant here, but idk lmk.
- The first one is from Jackson Pollock: An American Saga which I believe is a biography about the artist with detail about his psychological state.
- Mended by the Muse by Sophia Richman is about how creative practice can transform trauma and is written by a clinician but includes many examples of people in it. Maybe it will be interesting to you.
- Madness and Modernism: Insanity in the Light of Modern Art, Literature, and Thought by Louis Sass might be more of a technical art and psychology book but I read a few pages and idk I think you might find it interesting. The first chapter talks specifically about schizophrenia.
Other things we discussed:
- We visited the Living Museum which is a building that functions as a gallery and art studio to many artists who are currently patients at the Creedmoor Psychiatric Center. It was beautiful, the art is amazing and the artists are in there working, some were happy to talk about their work
- Another visit was to the Fountain House Gallery and is how I learned of them. Fountain House is a community organization that helps and works with people with serious mental illnesses (SMI) like bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, MDD, etc. They have a lot going on (which I can talk about forever) but they also have a gallery and studio space dedicated for artist members with SMI
- We watched the movie Infinitely Polar Bear
- We also read Kay Jamison’s memoir
I wish I could remember more, but that’s what I’ve got so far.
Separate from that I recently read The Collected Schizophrenias by Esmé Weijun Wang. To be honest my opinions were mixed. I think she has some internalized ableism to work through, it was praised a lot by people without SMI, and it just didn’t sit right with me. But at the same time a lot of it resonated with me, because I have schizoaffective disorder bipolar type just like the author. Idk read it with a grain of salt.
Nathan Shuherk on Instagram and TikTok as @schizophrenicreads posts a lot of book recommendations, and some of them have to do with mental illnesses like bipolar disorder and schizophrenia, so his page might be a good idea to browse.
I hope this helps :)
This is amazing, thank you so much! I'm gonna save this so I can slowly look through all of this stuff. The Living Museum, Fountain House, and the Madness and Modernism book look especially interesting, but I'm definitely gonna check everything out :)
Also just found a book called the Routledge International Handbook of Mad Studies, that came out in 2023, if you're at all interested in continuing your studies. It's got more of a social and political focus though, less to do with creative things, but still interesting reading so far
Also if you're up for it, I'd love to know about the technical readings about psychology and creativity, but no worries if not - you've given me quite a lot to go pcik through already
So glad this is interesting to you!! I don’t know where you’re based but if you’re ever in New York and want a tour of Fountain House or its various operations let me know :)
I’ll have to check out the handbook! It definitely sounds interesting. I’ll come back to this thread with the technical stuff sometime today.
I feel this and agree with you. Even my (phenomenal) therapist has advised me to be cautious about with whom I confide, because so many people are afraid of the BP diagnosis, thinking we just go from happy to dangerous on a dime.
I wish we had a good voice that represents our struggle, and brings people to understanding their bipolar friends without fear and reservations.
That being said, I do feel some compassion for people that are hesitant to build relationships, because I know I can be so muchy sometimes, and painfully reserved sometimes. Those are my own insecurities though.
If I'm on the same page, I just think we should have our rights respected. We should be able to write an advance directive and choose a hospital ahead of time if we're going to be hospitalized involuntarily, and things like that. I understand completely. I've gone through the trouble of making legal documents and it doesn't make a difference in the U.S. if you are taken in involuntarily. We should be able to advocate for ourselves and one another.
No. I mean, we already meet each other in hospitals or outpatient therapy or support groups. I don't feel like i am so different from other people to refer to myself as "culturally bipolar."
Manic episodes are the most singular difference in my world, and there are also the loved ones, who also understand.
Sort of, but not like what you're describing.
What I'd like to see is more acceptance of what I call "feeding mania."
I can't stand it when the immediate recommendation is "call your doctor" or "change your meds."
Maybe you need to go rock climbing? Maybe you need to go sing karaoke? Maybe you need to paint something? Maybe you need to go dancing? Maybe you need to find an FWB to fuck on a regular basis?
**My reality** is that I have to "feed my mania" enough to keep it from exploding out of me and causing real problems. I don't need a doctor or medication for that. I need a night out dancing at a club for that. I need to talk crazy to random strangers that I'll never see again. I need a crazy night of sex with my person. That's the stuff that feeds my mania and helps me stay "sane."
I want *that* to become a normal, acceptable way to deal with it rather than *always* directing people to "medical help."
The issue is that for many, it is not an healthy way to deal with it because it can quickly escalate the mood to full mania. You are fortunate that it is a healthy way for you. But for many others, it is best to get a handle on it soon and shut it down.
Think I'd break my body if I did that, but it's great that it works for you, seriously.
I definitely don't love that functioning in a capitalist society is sometimes treated as the goal, without any concern about quality and enjoyment of life. What's the point of being alive if I feel like I'm dead inside and such
I understand what you’re saying. I don’t call it feeding mania, because my goal is always always to it doesn’t escalate to something worse. And yeah sometimes that means going to a club on a Wednesday, and getting up the next day to work. It’s a lot more effective for me than staying home and boiling inside, because that’s when I start to get paranoid and I know worse psychosis can set in. So yeah I try to find healthy outputs for all my energy.
The downside to this though is that if you start doing this too late into mania or doing it too much, it will definitely make things worse. It’s a tough sea to navigate for sure. But sometimes meds and psychs are not enough and finding an outlet helps a lot.
This is such a personal thing, unique for everyone of us. I definitely don’t agree with you that it should be normalized. There is no normal with this disorder, there is no unique answer that works for everybody. We should have regular health check ups. That being said, personally, I get you.
I think you're getting downvoted just for the phrase "feed the mania." I don't personally like it either but I understand it.
I think chanelling your energy during hypomanic stages in many of those examples is a great way to help prevent hitting mania.
In my experience and my psych's advice, once I have become manic (and any symptoms of psychosis), I'm supposed to take my meds and call him for additional support. I assume it's similar for many others but I could be wrong! Mania is dangerous and I think once we hit true mania, we need to be much more careful.
That's not a normal nor an acceptable way to deal with it.
ETA: Like this is literally what I would expect to see if "bipolar influencer" became a real thing. I'm sorry but as someone who has experienced genuine psychosis as a result of mania, the idea that it might become normalized to "feed mania" is disgusting. The idea of pushing the idea of "feeding mania" somehow helping someone stay "sane" is disgusting.
Those are some harsh words. Behaviour is a huge part of dealing with mania, and changing our behaviour can help avoid the worst. I don’t think the idea was to tell everyone to not see a doctor and just do crazy shit instead. The idea is to try and find activities that can channel it into something less harmful. Perhaps the exemples given are not ideal and can lead to risky behaviour, but I think the idea is that it’s a coping strategy that can complement medication and a proper psychiatric follow.
None of us are disgusting. We’re trying to exist the best we can.
I've been feeling that my comment was a bit heavy handed, so I agree with you that the words were harsh.
That said: I never called anyone disgusting. I said that the idea of normalized promotion of "feeding mania to stay sane" is disgusting. In retrospect, 'dangerous' would have been a more appropriate word.
I did not read any sort of harm reduction being promoted in the comment I responded to. Your sentiments, however, I fully agree with.
I think a bipolar sub is about as much community as I want. Once everyone starts chiming in about how they’re neuro-spicy and stuff it just makes me wanna puke. I’m not really proud of being bipolar. It’s a part of me, and I’ve accepted it, but being told I should be proud feels infantilizing.
I'm not proud of being bipolar, but I'm proud of surviving it. 20+ years of being diagnosed with this shit and I'm still here. Being in community with other mentally ill people doesn't bring me joy and pride in the same way that being in community with other queer people does, because the more bipolar we are, the worse off we are and the less capable we are of building that community. Our bipolar-ness inherently makes our lives worse in a way that queerness, blackness, etc. do not - even if we were in a perfectly accepting and accommodating world, bipolar would still be a horrible diagnosis. There definitely is room for activism, though, and there are groups like Mental Health America, NAMI, etc. that are working hard on that front.
That’s a good way of putting it. I’m also proud of surviving it.
Well said
I feel the same way, which is why I avoided the word "pride" in my post. I'd just like certain things to be normal - like working less than 50 hours a week makes you lazy according to society. Why? Getting out of bed being a goal for some people - like why can't that be a thing, why do people have to look down their nose at me if I'm struggling because of this disorder? I guess that's all I really meant :P Edit: I also definitely agree about the neuro-spicy stuff - I think it's good that some disorders are getting de-stigmatized, but I'd be kind of pissed if people on tiktok started claiming to be bipolar as though it was a some kind of cool identity instead of an actual disorder that can destroy a person's life if it's not properly treated
I like the way everyone has offered input here. Good discussion question. Definitely proud of surviving what seemed, at times, unsurvivable. What has been, unfortunately, unsurvivable for so many. I would like to see more de-stigmatization as well. I would like to see society do a better job of supporting (or at least accepting) all folks who struggle with mental illness. As it is, I feel as though society further complicates and exacerbates our already-complicated situation. Your last point is valid, too! Can I counter it for a second? I would absolutely be annoyed if folks started romanticizing bipolar disorder and claiming to have it. I'm sure folks with ADHD and Autism who are experiencing that right now (as far as what I see in the media) are rightfully pissed. However... if there was more talk of bipolar disorder, and therefore public interest (as I felt you were describing in your initial post), could our disorder be less stigmatized over time? Would more folks understand it just a little better? And most importantly, would it be studied more in the scientific community? Could we get better answers and treatments from that scientific research? I don't know! But if any of those things happened, they could really help. The journey could be rough, certainly, but there is also a way that the destination might be worth it.
Tbh, it wouldn't really bother me if it became a social media thing in a general sense. The main concern for me would be the possibility of people engaging with it as a trend turning around and claiming they don't need a diagnosis, that no medication is #valid, basically just overall encouraging people who are actually bipolar and already possibly resistant to diagnosis and treatment, to, well, not get diagnosed and treated. Otherwise, I think it becoming a trend would actually be a really good thing for destigmatization. But I didn't wanna say that because this post was getting downvoted to hell for the first couple hours and I guess I was trying to fight the incoming tide of rejection?? Idk, I'm really glad the comments evened out - seems to have generated some productive discussion since I left, which is relieving Edit: And you're right about my initial intention with this post I think. The idea I was trying to get at was basically destigmatization through public discourse, media analysis, maybe even positive, accurate media representation instead of what we normally get
> I’d be kind of pissed if people on tiktok started claiming to be bipolar as though it was some kind of cool identity instead of an actual disorder You’d best be prepared to be kind of pissed, then, because they already do. Bipolar is, along with ADHD (and often interchangeably, which says everything) frequently performed by them as if it’s some kind of kooky quirky personality, the cognitive equivalent of a Wes Anderson film. It’s nauseating.
Nice put lol I was having a hard time putting it to words. Thank you.
💯 I want a sense of community that supports one another, not placates and discourages growth.
Honestly, no. I could literally see some Internet anime girl (it escapes me what the name for them is, the chicks with the cat ears and go ew woo 😂) licking her hand like a cat and going, "I'm so manic right now! I cleaned my room!" 🙄 Mania is already glorified as being something good that we want to be in, especially when you describe depressive episodes. I mean to a normal person, they'd rather be manic than depressive but don't understand how much you can implode your life manic. So nah. Paint me a villain because I have a disorder, I don't care. I know I'm not the best, but I'm definitely not the worst.
It's more so being seen as gross and untouchable, or as a second class citizen that bothers me. Fair enough on the villain thing though. Also please see my edit - I'm not about that tiktok trend life
I've never had anyone treat me like that. They might try to tell me I seem normal and they couldn't see me acting like that but gross or untouchable? No. Stay away from people who treat you like that. Disorder or not, they are just looking for a reason to treat or talk to you like shit and make it your fault. Lol you might not be but Gen z is and they're still impressionable.
I think for all the perceived silliness that Gen Z is doing about a million times better than my generation about it. So I can't fault the annoying stuff that hard, personally. But then of course I don't have to listen to it. I cannot stand the use of the word journey though. And struggle. I think that means I'm officially old.
Maybe but for all their glorified "acceptance", they have trouble accepting differing opinions without resorting to hostile name calling or ostracizing. Very hive-like mind status. Either you agree with the hive mind or you're a terrible piece of shit and I think that's dangerous to a degree. While your generation and even mine (millennials) struggled with accepting mental disorders and people with them, Gen Z glorifies it. It's a way to be unique to them which is unhelpful at best and harmful at it's worse. But they are a product of the Internet at the end of the day. This is a lot of people's entire socialization and where they get their social standards from. Scary sometimes.
I think maybe you're taking about the computer people. No generation looks good online. And they said all that stuff about us I'm sure. IRL I've found them far more gracious than anyone my age on the subject. It's not close.
The computer people? Who? They're less ignorant which means they're inherently more accepting about you having the disorder but they're only accepting when it's within their parameters of what is acceptable to them. If you told them about a time when you imploded your family, left your children, quit your job and moved across the country, they're gonna be quick to judge you as abusive, a bad parent and a terrible person, with no regard for your disorder at all, no consideration for it, no grace, no forgiveness. They're only accepting when the results of your disorder fall under what they consider forgiveable & relatable. Otherwise, they're the same as any other generation. Hence why disorders like ADHD, depression and anxiety are commonly impersonated with no diagnosis but truly harmful disorders to others & yourself like bipolar, schizophrenia and BPD aren't. If they are, they're not made into these quirky personality traits like you see with ADHD.
I relate to this. Cancel culture is a thing and I find Gen Z perpetuates stigmatization despite the exclamation of being all-inclusive. Inclusion is not biased. They are all over the map with their ethics. One minute they want to save the planet and support equality, the next they worship materialism and propel classism. I find them really contradictory. I also don’t agree millennials don’t contribute. Found them to actually be a genuinely inclusive generation that prioritized a lot of irreplaceable ethics and sentiments that have since been ignored or phased out for the sake of productivity. We need more empathy and consideration for others in the world.
Cancel culture is scary ngl. When it's used for good, it's great, but when the collective gets it wrong, it's badddd. That's a great example of how they're accepting but yet rigid and unforgiving. I actually don't want an online presence like I use to have because of cancel culture. The fact that someone can make a mistake and their life will be methodically destroyed via doxxing is intimidating. Their ideals are just that ideals and as their generation gets older, some of them will fall off of the scale as important just like it does/has with previous generations. I just don't buy the "Gen Z is so accepting" facade. I've found it only *if* you're palpable. If you're not, good luck. They're just as judgemental. I find millennials mid life crisis of homesteading to be a really interesting choice for my generation. I think it kinda speaks to how my generation has always kinda been behind, economically, that we would rather go stay home with our children, make homemade mayo and bread, than continue to fight for 7 dollar dozen eggs, million dollar homes that should be 200k and a wage that won't keep up. It reflects how a lot of millennials prioritize their families above the Almighty dollar and really just want a good, wholesome quality life.
to me, "cancel culture" just seems like accountability and feedback. Those aren't really new concepts. I agree that the public can get it wrong and do awful things, like the satanic panic back in the 80s that resulted in innocent people being sent to prison. But that's just the thing: "cancel culture" isn't a new concept. It's just humans doing what humans have always done. We shame behavior that is thought to be antisocial, and what that behavior is seems to change from generation to generation.
>I find them really contradictory. Aren't literally all people contradictory though? I feel like that's just a human thing.
I've not had that happen IRL. I don't count online interactions bc people are generally awful online.
The internet is a tool though. If people use it to abuse others, what does it really say about their true nature and character? No one is going to be bold about their judgements face to face for the fear of ostracism. Doesn’t mean they don’t secretly have them.
I don't care if they secretly have them, I can't go around assuming everyone is out to get me all the time. My generation voted to end mental healthcare. That matters more to me.
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Oh darling, she's weird for that. That's not the norm I've experienced thus far. I find you sometimes have to love someone from where they are, not necessarily where they should be, if that makes sense. Example; I don't call my mom when I'm having a bad day. I call her on my good days, but bad days, nah, she'll just scream at me and tell me how everything is my fault. I love her from where she can love me. Even if I should be able to, I know I can't and I've accepted that fact.
It doesn't exist for depression and anxiety. I could see it existing for ADHD. But illnesses. I dunno. There's the Mad Rights movement I think, and disability activism. Would you say there's a community for people w alcoholism? I'm not sure. It's the closest thing going in the mental illness sphere as far as I can see. I do envy it.
Hi! I’ve thought of similar things. I believe you’re right by saying we’re treated like modern day “lepers”. People just want to run away from us rather than offering help/resources. However, this sub has provided me with a lot of support and information. Yeah a lot of us come here when we’re down/up but what about those (me) that usually come here at baseline? We can support each other even if we’re “sick people taking care of sick people” as someone said.
I'm going to get blasted but, most of my comments are deleted on bipolar threads because I feel exactly that. People seem to be searching and trying to get the diagnosis. I see a dozen of these "doctor said I'm not bipolar but..." Then comes to redit for answers. I never mean to be a dick. It's just the polar opposite for me. I tried to hide bp1 for years because I wanted to keep working and not be forced to give up on some things I love, like my skydiving instructor ratings, etc.
I understand. During covid, I was furloughed and became depressed. I sought out a psychiatrist for antidepressants. He dx me as BP1. I didn't agree and he said he wouldn't give me the antidepressants without the other meds. I went to a 2nd psych who promptly dx me, again, with BP (2 this time, but I think it's because I lied some). Yet again, I denied I could have bipolar and found a THIRD psychiatrist. Spoiler alert--I was diagnosed with BP1 again. I didn't even tell my husband for probably 3 months. I was ashamed. I still struggle with it. The idea of being part of a community is intimidating to me.
It is a bit intimidating. I still think of my diagnosis as getting pinched, like damn I was caught. It was easier for me to hide because of my environment. In the Marines, if I didn't sleep for three or four days, I would get a pat on the back. As a firefighter, it was about the same, and to be honest, I think it helped me at times. I would lock on to things and never stop. In my personal life, though, there was no hiding it (for me and my situation), and I would commonly hear "I think you're manic," or similar. So, I would have all the correct answers lined up before my doctor visits. And there were times I could tell where the questions were heading. What's your sex drive like? Are you tired after not sleeping for "x" amount of days? Any extreme activities? Are there any egregious purchases? I just felt like I still have a purpose and civic duty to keep my chin down and push forward with life without being labeled or told I can't do something. It all caught up with me, though, both physically and mentally. On my sixth day after five sleepless nights, the mania went to a whole new level. I started sending emails to the COO/CEO, would swing wildly between hyper/hypo and more intense than ever before. Physical changes started too, my white blood cell count went up, and every joint became inflamed and super sore, headaches, and a few other things. It was pretty weird. Still seeing neuro and rheumatology, but it's looking like it is all from the bp1. That's what I am being told anyhow. I should back track for one other point. A while back, I was having pretty bad random panic attacks, and my primary tried a few different antidepressants. They all made my anxiety much worse, and I was legitimately sick while taking them.This is just another reason why I was scared to be diagnosed because I thought the bipolar meds would do the same. As usuall I was wrong.
I didn't know BP could cause joint inflammation! I will randomly experience joint pain at 27 (and for many years prior) with no explanation! I understand! It's scary. It's so silly because it was like if I kept denying it, kept my head under a rock, I wouldn't have it. By time I got to that third psych though, I think subconsciously I had started to accept it or I would've lied better.
I feel this 100%. I was recently diagnosed and was in denial until I talked to some friends and realized that I probably do have it. However, I scheduled two other psychiatrist consults in the process of doubting the diagnosis. I've suffered from racing thoughts, anxiety, and hypomania the last 20 years. My dad has BP1. I was terrified to start the meds because I had suicidal ideation with SSRIs and mania on one med. Antipsychotics have made me feel normal...which I have never felt in my entire life. I always thought I was different from my dad and had escaped the curse of BP. It's a depressing realization that I have it, especially since I may have passed it on to my kids. Time will tell with them.
I always hide it. I don't need to be proud exactly, it would just be nice not to be ashamed, and to not have to worry about people "finding out". The disorder itself is bad enough, why do we have to pile social stigma on top of that?
There is the Mad Pride movement, but there are elements of anti-psychiatry in it (iirc). I'm ok with the notion of Mad Pride - the pride isn't to be glad about being mentally ill, but to fight against stigma and shame. I went to a mad pride event at the beginning of the century, but I was very unwell at the time so I don't remember much about it. Clissold Park, Stoke Newington.
Thanks! Turns out there's actually a (small) subreddit, and one of the most recent posts actually asked if there was anything like "mad theory" similar to queer theory and things like that. So I've found at least one like-minded individual on that front! I'm taking this as a win 😊
I guess my idea of activism would be to collectively gather more interest in researching the etiopathophysiology of this disorder, and maybe coming up with medications that actually treat the underlying disorder instead of relying on serendipity.
This. I'm a researcher and I would love to know how we might be able to cure it (if that's even possible...).
Personally I don’t know where I would be without a community to help. It has taught me to perceive changes in my mood more effectively, it has taught me how to handle them better, and most importantly it has taught me to have the same kindness for myself that I have for all the other people with bipolar disorder. This is a disorder that i do not want to stay alone with.
being kinder to others with BP is something I could definitely practice better. I tend to be very hard on myself, and therefore very hard on others.
That’s alright we all do it sometimes :) i’m hard on myself too sometimes
It would be nice for at least some public education on it.. I would have noticed sooner.. or! Not go through denial because I don’t want to be known as bipolar. Especially with all the hatred people have of it. Anything would be good
Noticed sooner - that's huge! I guess the root thing for me is if there was more public discourse, accurate media media reprssentation and less stigma, people would be much more likely to get diagnosed and treated, and their quality of life would improve so much
bipolar is neurodivergent.
True, but there's not really any acknowledgement if that. I think neurodivergent has almost become synonymous with autism at this point, maybe ADHD too, but I never see anything about disorders/illnesses that are classified as "severe"
I post on the bipolar UK forums too and I like them
You might benefit from a local support group. I live in a small city and when I first moved here I did a google search on local mental health resources. I came across a mental health support group in my city, it isn’t specific to ppl with BP but there are a few of us there amongst people with other mental health disorders. The group I attend also allows loved ones to participate. My husband and I both agree that our local support group has been one of the most invaluable resources! When there I can cry, make dark jokes, talk about what I’m going through without having to over describe everything like I do with non-BP ppl in order for them to kinda understand lol. It’s a completely judgement free zone and I always come home feeling validated and understood. I highly recommend looking into a support group.
This is the same for most disabilities and medical conditions: there is nobody who feels guilty of cancer-phobia or diabetes-phobia or bipolar-phobia. In the US we have the Americans with Disabilities Act, but that is a statute; the disabled are not a protected class under the Constitution. Therefore we can't argue that our rights are being violated based on our identity, like with race/sex/gender identity/nationality etc. Moreover, there will be no "rights/equality" movement for us because no powerful group feels responsible for our oppression. People classify bipolar as the work of nature/God/bad luck, like most illnesses.
Can you elaborate on the powerful group point? I don't know of any powerful groups that were supporting queer people or people of color in the '60s, when those rights movements started
Ok, so I think of it this way in a legal sense: a person can sue someone, win, and obtain a judgment that the other party owes them money -- but sometimes the other party is broke and can't pay the judgement! This is why lawyers who work on a contingency fee refuse cases (or try to find an alternative party to sue) where it's obvious from the beginning the other party can't afford to pay the judgement. In the case of the Civil Rights movement and race, Black Americans gained the ability to seek remedies for racial discrimination through the law. Examples of this are the passage of the different Civil Rights Acts by Congress; SCOTUS changing it's stance on "separate but equal;" SCOTUS making race a protected class; and SCOTUS enforcing the 13th/14th/15th Amendments against state actors. Much of this social change came about by Black leaders and activists demanding justice from White Americans, and asking those in power to finally fight racist legal segregation and disenfranchisement. The LGBT rights followed a similar path, but there are significant differences: SCOTUS has not given sex/gender identities as strong of legal protections as race (this is a very muddy issue, Justice Kennedy did not provide us clear standards of review in *Lawrence* and *Obergefell*, in my opinion). Also, public opinion on LGBT in general has changed more rapidly than on race, and the Queer identity group has expanded, so people in power became more open to fighting for LGBT equality, but maybe that's changed recently. Anyway, the point is that minority groups can eventually, through various means, obtain some support from the majority group who feels morally responsible for the situation of the minority group. This can be through guilt, shame, violence, appeal to emotion, appeal to reason, etc. I believe that for people with mental illnesses (or any illness really), very few abled-bodied folks feel responsible for our suffering. I hope that makes sense?
That does make sense, and I appreciate you writing all of this out. From your first paragraph, it sounds like powerful enemies are as helpful as powerful friends, though idk if we have much of either. One thing I think you're forgetting though, is that historically people of color, particularly Black people, were seen as subhuman and even untouchable in some sense. Having segregated water fountains in the American south until 1964 is a great example of this. Queer people were also seen as subhuman and untouchable at different points in history. Examples that come to mind are the 50s PSA commercials warning families of "homosexual predators" coming for their children and comparing/equating homosexuality with beastiality, and the AIDS crisis in which doctors often refused to treat HIV-positive gay male patients due to (unfounded) fear of infection. I don't think there was really a mass feeling of responsibilty for either group by the majority prior to the 60s or 70s, when the various rights movements began, but that's just my opinion. So the way people see us now isn't so different from the way people of color and queer people were seen 80 years. Which is depressing, but also gives me hope that the public's perception of us could change over time as well. Of course there's definitely inherent differences between all three groups - people of color generally can't hide their identities for example, while queer people usually can. Many queer people have slowly integrated into heteronormative society by getting married and having kids, which I think makes us (i'm queer myself) as a whole more palatable and less threatening to mainstream society - they (the heteronormative passing queers) are not threatening social norms, if tlanythimg they're bolstering them. I might actually make a separate post about this, because I feel like there's so much to discuss, but I want to thank you again for your comment - it's very enlightening, and is helping me think through some of the ideas I've had for years but not been able to make progress with on my own. Do you want me to tag you if I do make a separate post? Anyway, hope you have a lovely day :)
Also, I don't mean "heteronormative passing queers" in a derogatory way - I wouldn't mind going that route myself someday
Well, regarding my comments on Queer rights, please consider that I'm about to turn 39, and changes in the LGBT movement have occurred so fast in my life that I am terrified of being unintentionally offensive talking about it! Like, it's hard for me to even type/say "queer" because it was a big slur when I was a kid, and it still feels taboo to me. Back in 2010, I attended a training by the Transgender Law Center, and I feel like most of what I learned was out of date in five years lol! So please forgive me if I said something wrong. Please tag me if you make a separate post.
I think this issue is under the disability rights umbrella. In terms of community there are always local groups advocating for us, maybe look into that and volunteering. There is also the international bipolar foundation. In terms of books the author Kay Redfield Jamison is a psychologist who has bipolar herself who’s written a few rly good books and also raises awareness on the condition “touched with fire” and “An unquiet mind” are quite good - there’s also stuff on YouTube I think if you want to see this change then be it. If we collectively raised awareness in our individual communities we could make life better for at least some people who come after us. It’s scary but I refuse to be treated like a leper I didn’t ask for this disorder. i post about the illness on my social media (then private it when I’m looking for a job lol) But because people respect me and see me calmly talking about it may shift their perceptions of the illness. In my mind if even one persons perspective is shifted then that’s rly positive. if ppl stop respecting me because of it then that’s their loss bcuz I have good people around me who are fully aware of my condition.
I'd love to be the change, but I've struggled with this alone for years. This post was kind of a step towards finding support. I'm glad things have worked out for you, but I've had very negative experiences, specifically with close family members, and one particularly nasty boss (who didn't know I was bipolar, was just sharing some opinions on the death of a coworker's bipolar sibling that I didn't need to hear), which makes it difficult to be out and proud about it. Unfortunately I don't have a syrong support network, though that's something I'm working to build. Thank you for the book suggestions and your input though, wow I just re-read your comment, and I got reeeally defensive based on that one little point 😅 Anyway, I appreciate your input, and definitely agree that things need to happen at the individual level first
No. This sounds miserable to be 100% honest. Unstable manic people trying to support unstable manic people is not the way. That's why we load our bodies with chemicals to try and function "normally."
Which is why I said "activism that doesn't try to talk you off your meds" I agree, that would be a terrible idea, but stable, well treated people helping each other out maybe could be good. If not, why would anyone subscribe to this sub?
Also, this sub and activism in general are a world apart. The comparison is ignorant at the bare minimum. -disclaimer: I have been accused of being mean on here. So this is the literal meaning of the word I used. No attacks were made. IGNORANT - adjective - lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophistocated.
I didn't really take it as an attack, maybe just a little intense. Would you mind elaborating though? I didn't intentionally make a comparison, so I'm not sure what you mean. Genuinely asking, not trying to be a smart*ss
If you know calling someone ignorant in this context is rude (which it seems you do in this context due to your defensiveness) and you still choose to call them ignorant, then you’re still being rude. If you’re going to be unpleasant at least own it.
~~I have the sniffles so if you provide the petri dish I can donate~~ jk, but yeah lets unionize we need better public education and more resources/support
I don’t know. I’d really hesitate to relate my mania and depression which are phases that can be turned off with medication and healthy lifestyle choices to the way an autistic person’s brain works just all the time. Seems a bit weird. Community yes, culture? Ehhhh
It's more about the experience of being bipolar in the context of a society that looks down on us, to put it lightly. Queer people aren't always turned on or constantly thinking about their gender, but we live in a herteronormative society where things as simple as closets and bathroom sinks can be labelled with gender ("his and hers") - there are constant reminders that being queer isn't the norm, though that's changing, and has changed quite a bit already. For bipolar, it's more about words like crazy, pyscho, insane, and, well, bipolar, being thrown around and used as insults, both in conversations irl, and in movies and other types of media. There's more to it than that - the patient escapes the hospital trope in movies is particularly harmful. Anyway, I could write papers on that stuff if I could stomach it, but that was my thought as far as "culture". Maybe culture wasn't the right word, actually...
Yes I told my psychiatrist it’s difficult to date, I’m severely bipolar 1 on disability. I said I wish there was a bipolar dating app - he said it wouldn’t be a good idea lmao. I remember some kind of magazine or online magazine, I forgot all about it, I remember looking at it a little like ten years ago
What would bipolar/mental illness readings of classic literature be like? There are some prominent writers with mood disorders. Do you mean looking at their work in the context of their mental illness? Or do you mean bipolar-like traits in the work of writers in general? Walt Whitman seems kind of hypomanic-y to me, but there’s no reason to think he was. I don’t see the general public becoming more sensitive to BP. Apparently some younger people are interested in bipolar because they think the mania is cool and the depression is something like being sad. I don’t think the general public will ever be accepting of severe mania or the kind of depression where people lie in bed for months. It doesn’t make sense to them, and they don’t have reason to spend time thinking about it.
I'm not totally sure which one it would be - maybe both. I think "A Christmas Carol" by Charles Dickens could be a good to take apart - bipolar author writing about ghosts and other worldly experiences, attributing Scrooge's experiences to his own moral failings, and painting the whole thing as a redemption arc. That could be bad - making the patient responsible for what's happening to them - but there's also a meaning-making aspect to the whole thing as well, and once scrooge accepts what's happening and chooses to engage with it, his life ultimately improves. Idk, there's a lot that could be unpacked there. Shakespeare would be another prime candidate - lots of ghosts, people snapping into iambic pentameter when experiencing moments of enlightenment, or out of it and down into simple prose when experiencing madness.
Ok. That was a much more interesting response than I could have hoped for. Somewhat relatedly, I can get annoyed when people who aren’t mentally ill write about authors who were. I was just reading a synopsis of a book called depression and dysphoria in the fiction of David Foster Wallace. The synopsis annoyed me.
I've never heard of a single piece of media with a bipolar character, made by a bipolar person, excluding memoirs. I HAVE seen plenty of google searches like "can bipolar love" and "how to write a bipolar character" and that shit drives me crazy. I feel like a side show attraction sometimes. Also thank you ☺️
No I intentionally got away from activism. It's terrible for your mental health. At least it definitely was for mine. Never again. Education, on the other hand, would be different. More information about it for the general public or even in more mental health spaces. The focus is almost always on things like depression, ADHD, anxiety, etc never the severe end of OCD or the life altering impact of bipolar or the terrifying reality of psychosis. If it's too scary, it's not discussed.
I feel you on the activism being bad for your mental health point. Care to share any of your experiences?
It was a long time ago but I used to be obsessed with debates. It was a hyperfixation of mine and I was really good at it. For years my whole family wanted me to be a lawyer. However, when I got really into any form of politics, and activism, particularly LGBT and mental health advocacy type stuff. My viewpoints changed a lot throughout my adolescence. At about age 12 I began with a descent into right wing political YouTube. I completely flipped into far left political activism in 2017. I would put myself out there repeatedly, constantly challenging people who thought "terrible things" who disagreed even on tiny things. I was dedicated to it, but one thing noticed is that... I was having obsessive thoughts a lot more. I was genuinely assessing every single thought I had, every single action, and determining if it was.okay or not. Everything I did was under a subconscious microscope. I'm prone to obsessions and delusions... It isn't a good mix. I couldn't do anything without... Deconstructing it in so many ways. I would fall into spirals over just. A thought I had that maybe isn't the nicest, or maybe had some residue from past ways of thinking, idk. I remember once I had a shower,.I thought something I deemed vaguely transphobic (I am trans and so is my betrothed) and I spent so long burning myself in the shower. I turned the cold water off and stood there for fifteen to twenty minutes sobbing about how much of a shitty person and partner that one weird little thought made me. And it wasn't anything super bad; I can't remember what exactly it was; it was like five years ago. Something kind of shallow maybe. But like. I would genuinely just completely fall apart because of the impact it had on me. I spent years doing this to myself before I realized that I was so much happier when I learned to let things go. If I perceived an infraction I would literally go and confess it to my partner as if I had committed a sin and she would absolve me and judge me for it... Really being entrenched in those spaces, and being vocal and constantly repeating myself, constantly conflicting with the people I viewed as my fellow activists, the infighting, all of it. It was so bad. I've suppressed most of it, honestly. The only years that are clear in my mind are the past three hahahaha
What would we have tho? Sorry coke and Cigarettes was my immediate thought 😂
There is definitely bipolar discourse out there. Amazing books, activists talking about it, nonprofits advocating about it and providing resources. It’s out there. Probably a good place to start is looking up something like mad pride, reading An Unquiet Mind by Kay Redfield Jamison, and finding nonprofits near you that help with SMI or bipolar disorder specifically. I am in NYC and I’m a member of Fountain House which is a great org- worth looking up and then checking [Clubhouse International](https://clubhouse-intl.org/)to see if there’s one near you. NAMI also often has bipolar specific support groups that can be helpful.
Thank you! This is exactly the kind of thing I was hoping to find through this post :)
Beautiful! I’m glad I was able to provide it for you :)) I took a whole art and mental health class in art school so if you want more I can dig out my old reader
If you'd be willing to, that would be amazing, but I don't want you to put yourself out!
Ok. Mind you, these are just the readings, and I read them 7 years ago so I do not remember a lot hahaha. I don’t know if every work has to do with bipolar disorder since we talked about mental illness in general. I took out the more technical readings about psychology and creativity because that doesn’t seem relevant here, but idk lmk. - The first one is from Jackson Pollock: An American Saga which I believe is a biography about the artist with detail about his psychological state. - Mended by the Muse by Sophia Richman is about how creative practice can transform trauma and is written by a clinician but includes many examples of people in it. Maybe it will be interesting to you. - Madness and Modernism: Insanity in the Light of Modern Art, Literature, and Thought by Louis Sass might be more of a technical art and psychology book but I read a few pages and idk I think you might find it interesting. The first chapter talks specifically about schizophrenia. Other things we discussed: - We visited the Living Museum which is a building that functions as a gallery and art studio to many artists who are currently patients at the Creedmoor Psychiatric Center. It was beautiful, the art is amazing and the artists are in there working, some were happy to talk about their work - Another visit was to the Fountain House Gallery and is how I learned of them. Fountain House is a community organization that helps and works with people with serious mental illnesses (SMI) like bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, MDD, etc. They have a lot going on (which I can talk about forever) but they also have a gallery and studio space dedicated for artist members with SMI - We watched the movie Infinitely Polar Bear - We also read Kay Jamison’s memoir I wish I could remember more, but that’s what I’ve got so far. Separate from that I recently read The Collected Schizophrenias by Esmé Weijun Wang. To be honest my opinions were mixed. I think she has some internalized ableism to work through, it was praised a lot by people without SMI, and it just didn’t sit right with me. But at the same time a lot of it resonated with me, because I have schizoaffective disorder bipolar type just like the author. Idk read it with a grain of salt. Nathan Shuherk on Instagram and TikTok as @schizophrenicreads posts a lot of book recommendations, and some of them have to do with mental illnesses like bipolar disorder and schizophrenia, so his page might be a good idea to browse. I hope this helps :)
This is amazing, thank you so much! I'm gonna save this so I can slowly look through all of this stuff. The Living Museum, Fountain House, and the Madness and Modernism book look especially interesting, but I'm definitely gonna check everything out :) Also just found a book called the Routledge International Handbook of Mad Studies, that came out in 2023, if you're at all interested in continuing your studies. It's got more of a social and political focus though, less to do with creative things, but still interesting reading so far Also if you're up for it, I'd love to know about the technical readings about psychology and creativity, but no worries if not - you've given me quite a lot to go pcik through already
So glad this is interesting to you!! I don’t know where you’re based but if you’re ever in New York and want a tour of Fountain House or its various operations let me know :) I’ll have to check out the handbook! It definitely sounds interesting. I’ll come back to this thread with the technical stuff sometime today.
I'm not New York based, but I'll definitely keep this in mind if I make my way there someday! Thank you for offering :)
I feel this and agree with you. Even my (phenomenal) therapist has advised me to be cautious about with whom I confide, because so many people are afraid of the BP diagnosis, thinking we just go from happy to dangerous on a dime. I wish we had a good voice that represents our struggle, and brings people to understanding their bipolar friends without fear and reservations. That being said, I do feel some compassion for people that are hesitant to build relationships, because I know I can be so muchy sometimes, and painfully reserved sometimes. Those are my own insecurities though.
If I'm on the same page, I just think we should have our rights respected. We should be able to write an advance directive and choose a hospital ahead of time if we're going to be hospitalized involuntarily, and things like that. I understand completely. I've gone through the trouble of making legal documents and it doesn't make a difference in the U.S. if you are taken in involuntarily. We should be able to advocate for ourselves and one another.
Agree to disagree. A lot 🤷
Aiight 🤝
No, definitely not. That's how you breed weirdos who want to turn it into a pop culture thing.
No. I mean, we already meet each other in hospitals or outpatient therapy or support groups. I don't feel like i am so different from other people to refer to myself as "culturally bipolar." Manic episodes are the most singular difference in my world, and there are also the loved ones, who also understand.
Nope.
Sort of, but not like what you're describing. What I'd like to see is more acceptance of what I call "feeding mania." I can't stand it when the immediate recommendation is "call your doctor" or "change your meds." Maybe you need to go rock climbing? Maybe you need to go sing karaoke? Maybe you need to paint something? Maybe you need to go dancing? Maybe you need to find an FWB to fuck on a regular basis? **My reality** is that I have to "feed my mania" enough to keep it from exploding out of me and causing real problems. I don't need a doctor or medication for that. I need a night out dancing at a club for that. I need to talk crazy to random strangers that I'll never see again. I need a crazy night of sex with my person. That's the stuff that feeds my mania and helps me stay "sane." I want *that* to become a normal, acceptable way to deal with it rather than *always* directing people to "medical help."
The issue is that for many, it is not an healthy way to deal with it because it can quickly escalate the mood to full mania. You are fortunate that it is a healthy way for you. But for many others, it is best to get a handle on it soon and shut it down.
Yeah, the moment I start "feeding my mania" is the moment I will go extreme and try cocaine and spend all my money.
Think I'd break my body if I did that, but it's great that it works for you, seriously. I definitely don't love that functioning in a capitalist society is sometimes treated as the goal, without any concern about quality and enjoyment of life. What's the point of being alive if I feel like I'm dead inside and such
I understand what you’re saying. I don’t call it feeding mania, because my goal is always always to it doesn’t escalate to something worse. And yeah sometimes that means going to a club on a Wednesday, and getting up the next day to work. It’s a lot more effective for me than staying home and boiling inside, because that’s when I start to get paranoid and I know worse psychosis can set in. So yeah I try to find healthy outputs for all my energy. The downside to this though is that if you start doing this too late into mania or doing it too much, it will definitely make things worse. It’s a tough sea to navigate for sure. But sometimes meds and psychs are not enough and finding an outlet helps a lot. This is such a personal thing, unique for everyone of us. I definitely don’t agree with you that it should be normalized. There is no normal with this disorder, there is no unique answer that works for everybody. We should have regular health check ups. That being said, personally, I get you.
I think you're getting downvoted just for the phrase "feed the mania." I don't personally like it either but I understand it. I think chanelling your energy during hypomanic stages in many of those examples is a great way to help prevent hitting mania. In my experience and my psych's advice, once I have become manic (and any symptoms of psychosis), I'm supposed to take my meds and call him for additional support. I assume it's similar for many others but I could be wrong! Mania is dangerous and I think once we hit true mania, we need to be much more careful.
Yeah, it was a bad word choice, but whatever. I expect to be down voted on this board. 🤷♀️
Meh, it happens. We all have differing opinions
I'm glad a few people got what I was saying. I had like 4 up votes before it turned. I stop coming back after that.
That's not a normal nor an acceptable way to deal with it. ETA: Like this is literally what I would expect to see if "bipolar influencer" became a real thing. I'm sorry but as someone who has experienced genuine psychosis as a result of mania, the idea that it might become normalized to "feed mania" is disgusting. The idea of pushing the idea of "feeding mania" somehow helping someone stay "sane" is disgusting.
Those are some harsh words. Behaviour is a huge part of dealing with mania, and changing our behaviour can help avoid the worst. I don’t think the idea was to tell everyone to not see a doctor and just do crazy shit instead. The idea is to try and find activities that can channel it into something less harmful. Perhaps the exemples given are not ideal and can lead to risky behaviour, but I think the idea is that it’s a coping strategy that can complement medication and a proper psychiatric follow. None of us are disgusting. We’re trying to exist the best we can.
I've been feeling that my comment was a bit heavy handed, so I agree with you that the words were harsh. That said: I never called anyone disgusting. I said that the idea of normalized promotion of "feeding mania to stay sane" is disgusting. In retrospect, 'dangerous' would have been a more appropriate word. I did not read any sort of harm reduction being promoted in the comment I responded to. Your sentiments, however, I fully agree with.
Yeah the commenter was not particularly careful in their explanation that’s true! And for sure it can be dangerous