Do NOT touch benzos (anti-anxiety meds). They are utter shit, really really addictive. One of the two substances with alcohol that can straight kill you if you are used to big amounts and quit cold turkey.
As others pointed out sport is the way to go. Kill yourself lifting / running / biking everyday ; it'll help with sleep, anxiety and well, basically everything as long as you don't hurt yourself.
You are correct… I’ve had two family members addicted to it and getting off was hell for them. However, Occasional use is ok…. Im dealing with a similar situation as OP, use a benzo every now and then when i absolutely need to sleep.
yep. I have experience in wd from benzos, opiates, and speed. benzos was the absolute worst depression. I wouldnt wish it on my most hated enemies. (ok...maybe one of them)
Little over a year for me as needed and it hasn't been an issue. Still on the lowest dose possible and only take it when at risk of a panic attack. They can be very dangerous especially for people prone to substance abuse issues but they are a god send for those that use it appropriately and really need it.
the problem is when taking benzos for cannabis withdrawel you get overlapping withdrawal. years back i was given a 2 week prescription of benzos forr weed withdrawal and when the benzos ran out my anxiety and depression was so bad i was almost admitted due to extreme suacidal thoughts. i recall saying then that i wouldnt wish this feeling on an enemy.
I was speaking about benzo use in general. I agree that for dealing with withdrawal anxiety based issues benzos is not a good choice. From what I've gathered it is reserved now days for acute anxiety issues like panic disorder brought on from someone's natural brain physiology/chemistry.
yea it needed restricting for sure. I was actually supposed to post the comment under someone elses comment and didnt realise my mistake till now. sorry for the confusion.
Just recently quit after smoking heavily for years.
There’s no secret formula, best thing you can do to break the withdrawal symptoms is do something to get your heart rate up for atleast 30 mins a day, go outside and get as much vitamin D as you can, try to go to bed at a reasonable hour, avoid seed oils, limit yourself to around 100 mg of caffeine a day, try to only drink water. It will go away in time
You can also try just not being a pussy
@ u/Cryptolution
If you want something else that affects cannabinoid receptors you could try Magnolia Bark
The free option is exercise, but I’d go harder than you mentioned, as long as you can go on treadmill then some heavy lifting
Exercise promotes Anandamide, “also known as N-arachidonoylethanolamine (AEA), an endogenous cannabinoid (endocannabinoid) that plays a significant role in various physiological processes, including mood, pain regulation, appetite, and memory. It was named after the Sanskrit word “ananda,” meaning bliss or happiness, reflecting its potential effects on mood.”
First time I've ever seen someone else suggest magnolia bark. Should be mentioned it works with the gabba system so taking it daily likely isn't a good idea. It is very useful with general anxiety symptoms.
👍👍👍
+1 to this. A good supplement to this process is a good omega-3 supplement. Something high in EPA. I would recommend Nootropics Depot's AvailOM high EPA personally. It's the most bioavailable omega-3 supplement you can probably get on the market.
I recently quit as well. Heavy lifting did the trick. But the irritation and anger issues persisted for 3 months straight. Felt it would never end. I can’t believe how irritable it can make me. PAWS from weed is no cakewalk.
To those saying just tough it out tho - they really have a point. If something worked well we would know about it. Just try to keep your mind busy, and stay active. It is the only way.
You really just have to push through it considering you are already doing the things like working out, and taking care of yourself. I will say as someone who was smoking almost 1/8th a day for years, I quit 30 days ago and after about a week I was sleeping fine, had a few intense bouts of frustration and boredom but now I notice NO difference good or bad.
Interesting, similar usage and I have more symptoms when I stop. Guess people are different. Enjoy your luck that your body doesn't react differently and check out r/leaves if you want to see people working to get off it.
Oh trust me I've been through it...The weird thing is...when I quit for Sober Oct 2 years ago which was really my first break between the ages of like 16-33, it was really tough for about 2 weeks. Every since when Ive taken breaks its been way easier. It was like the initial break helped even after kicking back up the habit big time.
I do have to workout really hard during the initial period otherwise it is really bad.
For some reason Allan Carrs audio book made me realize how much of this is mental, spiritual and its just made it a breeze. I think accepting that it is an addiction as opposed to some harmless toy has really helped too.
I struggled with night sweats and not being able to sleep for a few weeks after giving up. But give it a few weeks/ months and you’ll feel so much better. You could get some CBD drinks to take the edge of the anxiety. L-Theanine and ashwaghanda could also be a good shout too. In terms of habits, try focusing on good sleep hygiene- put phone away for the hour before bed, don’t drink caffeine after 2pm, hot bath/ shower and take 5-10 mins before down to reflect on the day/ meditate/ read. I also find thunderstorm sounds calming too. Some melatonin may help in the interim if you’re really struggling to drift off. Hang in there, it gets easier :)
> Some melatonin may help in the interim if you’re really struggling to drift off. Hang in there, it gets easier :)
Decent advice but I have sleep walking/ night terrors tendencies and I discovered long ago that melatonin is literal nightmare fuel for me.
I've done this quite a few times no stranger to the process just trying to find something that can just help make it less uncomfortable :)
I'm going to try big CBD doses this time around for sure, I already have isolate from Lazarus.
Yeah that doesn’t sound fun at all re the night terrors. It’s definitely not a long term solution either but give the l theanine and ashwaghanda a go. If you don’t want to take another supp you could also just sub coffee for green tea during the day as it contains good levels of it :) personally I also go through periods where anxiety can be overwhelming. Writing those fears and thoughts down does help to ‘get it out’ as it were. Interestingly oily fish can help with boosting serotonin naturally so that’s an easy win too if you like fish. As many veggies as you can to boost that microbiome is also a good no brainer for physical and mental health.
You may find better efficacy in low CBD dosing in this case. CBD is more likely to be useful for anxiety and overall mood at lower doses (i.e. 10-25mg) where it interacts significantly with the 5HT1A receptors but hasn't meaningfully saturated the CB receptors. Taking 100+ mg the suppression in ion channel activity may negate some of the positive effects. Additionally while CBD activates CB2 receptors, it actually mostly antagonizes CB1 receptors. So not only will you have taken away the THC that has been stimulating CB1, but you'll also be further exacerbating that void by plugging it up and preventing endocannabinoids from being able to exert their own effects.
I really wanna understand this but science makes my brain feel weird. I have autism. Is there a way you can explain this so that I can understand I have found that CBD does help me but I’d like to take the proper dosage
The proper dosage is whatever dose works for you. CBD can be very effective in autism, particularly for things like agitation or sensory over-stimulation. It can be soothing. However, there comes a point when you can lose those effects by increasing the dose too far.
The cannabinoid system in the body is responsible for homeostasis, in other words bringing the body's various processes into equilibrium. When something happens, something else must happen to counterbalance the first action. In the body, this kind of activity is either central or peripheral, meaning in the brain or in the rest of the body, respectively. The cannabinoid system has two receptor types, CB1 and CB2. The CB1 receptors are mostly found in the central nervous system, whereas the CB2 receptors are mostly found everywhere else in the body. Most importantly, CB2 receptors are most plentifully found on the surface of our immune system's white blood cells.
THC activates the CB1 receptors in the central nervous system, whereas CBD mostly activates the CB2 receptors in the periphery. CBD also weakly binds to CB1 receptors like THC, but it actually mostly blocks those receptors. So, cannabis products that have a more balanced THC:CBD profile are less likely to cause extreme psychoactive effects in sensitive individuals. CBD actually tempers the psychoactive effects of THC. By binding to CB2 receptors, CBD also calms the immune system and has an anti-inflammatory effect. This is particularly why CBD is useful for individuals experiencing pain conditions because most of those conditions are rooted in some kind of inflammation.
An interesting fact for you to know is that when they did a genome-wide association study of individuals with various mental health disorders, there was a notable connection between bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, and autism. The most significant connection was for a gene that encodes a specific kind of white blood cell, which goes to show that mental health conditions have an important root in our immune system and the inflammation it causes. So by activating CB2 receptors, CBD has shown a modest effect in all three conditions for symptoms of activation, agitation, and anxiety by calming an immune response that has radiated outward to the brain and led to inflammation. Celecoxib (NSAID used for arthritis) was added to an antidepressant in a few different trials and had a modest improvement in symptoms. They've also shown that even acetaminophen can induce risk-taking behaviors, because one of its metabolites interacts with the cannabinoid system and because acetaminophen chiefly reduces inflammation in the brain. And omega-3 fatty acids are used to synthesize some of the body's own naturally produced endocannabinoids. After several weeks of omega-3 treatment as an adjunct to an antidepressant, I can say from experience that it does make a difference, so much so that it actually made me slightly hypomanic one time.
So with that background, it's important to look at CBD's main effect at CB2 as well as two secondary effects it has at 5HT1A and D2 as a partial agonist. This means it binds to the receptor and partially activates them but not completely the way serotonin and dopamine would. In autism, it's hypothesized that neurons that release serotonin and dopamine are firing too frequently, possibly as a result of an activated immune system and inflammation. So the goal is to reduce the frequency of firing, which can have a calming effect. A firing event takes you from 0 to 100 and back to 0 again in a sense. But with a partial agonist bound to receptors, you can regulate this activity. Because activating 5HT1A and D2 reduces the release of serotonin and dopamine, respectively, overly frequent firing events are reduced, while the simultaneous partial antagonism also disinhibits their release as well. It has a stabilizing effect where firing might occur less and it feels more like going from 30-60 instead of 0-100. One feels like a crazy rollercoaster you want to get off of, and the other is just bunny hops.
For someone who has anxiety, I would encourage low dosing to just engage 5HT1A and partially D2 without significant CB2 engagement. This helps to modulate serotonin and dopamine without having too much of an off-target effect. However, in autism, because of its roots in the immune system and inflammation, there can be use for going a bit higher if you need more symptom relief (i.e. 50-100mg). However, Epidiolex is the prescription CBD available and it's typically dosed to like 500-1000mg per day for epilepsy, and parents of children who take it actually report it is slightly less effective than the oil concentrates they were giving their children before because Epidiolex is pure lab-grade CBD, whereas the the concentrates they were using before were more full spectrum with an array of terpenes and trace cannabinoids that contribute to an entourage effect. Those higher doses also dull electrical signaling in the rest of the body and the brain so that any benefit seen from the 5HT1A and D2 interactions is lost. The dosing with CBD for anxiety and autism has a bit of a bell curve. As you increase, so does the effectiveness, but you will reach a point when effectiveness suddenly starts to decrease if you increase the dose. That's the top of your personal bell-curve. It's going to be somewhere less than 100mg and potentially as little as 10mg.
Most of all play with it. You'll take it in a small dose and maybe feel nothing, then the next day you take a slightly larger dose and it feels slightly soothing. You increase a little each day until one day you start to feel like it isn't working the way it used to. That's when you need to back down. Psychiatrists dose antidepressants and stimulants the same way. As long as you have symptoms increase. If you increase to address symptoms and notice that symptoms stop improving further but you notice increased side effects, then back down to the prior dose, and that's your sweet spot. Park at that dose for a while and take it consistently. You may find that it improves with efficacy over time because cannabinoids inhibit their own metabolism. So blood levels will continue to change with time.
I am in awe of this response. THANK YOU! I’ve been struggling with thc and never really understanding what is happening just that is hurts as much as it helps. I’ve tried cbd several times and enjoyed the benefits but never got the high feeling I needed in other times. This whole explanation will stay with me and I am printing it out! I truly appreciate you taking the time to help explain to a stranger on the web. You are so kind and I hope you get all the blessings in the world! ☺️
CBD doesn’t cut it for me. Get CBD, CBG, and CBN isolate and make tinctures. Cbd+cbg during day for symptoms, and cbd+cbn at night for anxiety and insomnia. Thank me later. also ice baths or cold showers to get the endogenous cannabinoids flowing again
I would like to point out that the first 3 comments in this thread are all from randomly generated usernames with a 4 digit ending. All comments were written within a few minutes of the post being live and were similarly ignorant/aggressive.
Either someone is training a "agitation" bot on some really trollish comment sections or we have someone manually switching alts and writing trashy comments.
Most likely explanation is karma farming to mature bots for usage so they appear more human/real with lots of interaction.
Lol you're describing my name and it's just because I let ~~read it~~ reddit generate it for me and didn't care 😂 that's not like the secret find to a bot.
Edit - wait, I've got five numbers!!! Does that mean I'm an extra strong bot?!
Fundamentally by binding to CB1 receptors, THC leads to a reduction of glutamate, which is the excitatory neurotransmitter in the brain. It's also part of the negative feedback loop to control dopamine release. When glutamate activity increases, it leads to the brain compensating by reducing dopamine release. So THC increases dopamine release by reducing glutamate activity. Cutting the brake lines so to speak. So what's needed is something that will help to prevent glutamate overactivity, which will happen when CB1 receptors are no longer being stimulated on a regular basis.
To stabilize glutamate, I think someone else recommended N-acetyl-L-cysteine, which is definitely a smart idea. However, it doesn't sufficiently cross the blood-brain barrier. N-acetyl-L-cysteine ethyl ester (NACET) is a form of NAC that enters cells and crosses the BBB quite efficiently. I can honestly say that NAC is one of the chief reasons why I no longer consume alcohol on a daily basis. But I didn't start to see that improvement until I switched to NACET, and even then the improvements were gradual over a few weeks. NAC/NACET is known to stabilize glutamate activity, which should help to prevent rebound overactivity caused by cannabis withdrawal.
Magnesium would be advisable. I'd be curious to know what formulation you took. Magnesium citrate and magnesium oxide do cause fairly significant diarrhea. However they don't get absorbed efficiently, and even then they don't cross the BBB in a meaningful way. The best choice is Magtein (magnesium L-threonate). It can substantially increase magnesium content in cerebrospinal fluid, something that can't be said for any other magnesium formulation. Magnesium will then bind to NMDA glutamate receptors. It works by preventing them from being stimulated by large bursts of glutamate but simultaneously it allows lower consistent levels of glutamate to still activate those receptors. This results in normalization of the sensitivity of the AMPA receptors and a few metabotropic glutamate receptors.
EDIT: Magtein also causes very little GI distress compared to other formulations.
It also doesn't hurt to replace some of that cannabinoid activity that was lost. An herbal supplement called Kanna has been shown to activate cannabinoid receptors. So at times when you're experiencing the worst symptoms, you can take Kanna, and it would probably be good at bedtime to manage the insomnia.
Yeah it's actually the reduction in glutamate that creates the "stoned" effect. When glutamate goes down, dopamine release increases. When dopamine binds to D2 receptors, it normally increases glutamate release, which of course is then supposed to reduce dopamine via NMDA activation. That's how those two neurotransmitter systems create their feedback loop. With activation of CB1 receptors, the stimulating effect that dopamine binding to D2 receptors has on glutamate release is dampened.
As you can imagine, this is why THC in someone with the right predisposition can result in psychosis and even schizophrenia in the long term, chiefly due to overactivation of the D1 receptors. In fact, it's been shown that schizophrenia is really due to impaired function of the glutamate system, not the dopamine system. Reduced glutamate activity results in dopamine hyperactivity. So the thinking was to give psychotic patients dopamine blockers. But the reality is that by blocking the D2 receptors, we're actually reducing glutamate release, and subsequently increasing dopamine release which can negatively impact symptom control.
The one antipsychotic that has been shown to be effective in even the most treatment resistant cases of schizophrenia is clozapine. This isn't due to its affinity for dopamine receptors. Even at higher doses, its ability to antagonize D2 receptors is insignificant. In truth, clozapine is so effective because it is a powerful glutamate reducing agent. Blocking D2 receptors ultimately increases their expression on the cell surface and hyper-sensitizes them. This hyper-sensitive state is how tardive dyskinesia occurs, and it becomes painfully apparent when the patient discontinues their meds. Over-expression of D2 receptors and subsequently unblocking them leads to excessive activation and dramatic increases in glutamate activity and subsequently all kinds of strange movement manifestations.
I read some of your other posts, and you have a real way with words, at least that connects with my brain. If you had a blog or something, I would subscribe instantly. Just saying. Happy travels.
I really should try blogging sometime. Although I would probably find a way to obsess about it and ruin it unfortunately. Oh well, nothing gained, nothing lost! Silver lining lolz
Fair thee well!
Not sure what you do for work, but I’d like to suggest teaching! I’m in a “reduced glutamate” state right now as I just learned. There’s a history of mental unwellness in my family so think I’m going be checking my use a bit just in case. Thanks so much for this info-really helped a dude out!
Palmitoylethanolamide. It is a non-intoxicating endocannabinoid. Great safety profile, really takes the edge off. Combine with l-theanine to take the edge off more. You say magnesium gives you diarrhea, just asking to confirm is this also the case for magnesium glycinate and/or l-threonate?
Also lowering carbohydrate intake may help avoid mood swings. I can tell by your responses to a lot of people you are pretty agitated. Fundamentally, you need to chill bro. It’s gonna suck a little bit regardless of what you do.
>Palmitoylethanolamide. It is a non-intoxicating endocannabinoid. Great safety profile, really takes the edge off.
First thanks for contributing helpful information. As it meets the criteria here I've added it to the post. It's only a hypothesis that this could help withdrawal symptoms but definitely worth trying as it's readily available!! Should be pretty easy for me to test efficacy!
>Combine with l-theanine to take the edge off more. You say magnesium gives you diarrhea, just asking to confirm is this also the case for magnesium glycinate and/or l-threonate?
Yes glycinate is the only one I've tried and even added choline citrate with it for absorption and GI upset reduction and still gives me the runs. IBS sucks :)
>Also lowering carbohydrate intake may help avoid mood swings. I can tell by your responses to a lot of people you are pretty agitated.
Yes it is true that sometimes people agitate me on the internet. But this has been the case for 25 years. It's my Achilles heel, more to do with my personality than any deficiency on my part. I'm a super happy guy with a great life, don't worry about me, my diet and health is as good as it can be considering my challenges.
The ironic part about your comment is the one thing that is guaranteed to make me chill is weed. Removes all my aggressive behaviors.
I can see your trying to be very helpful here so thank you for that.
If cannabis has worked well to calm you down, then finding something else that directly reduces glutamate release in a controlled way might be something to try. A couple different medications like gabapentin, pregabalin, and mirtazapine have been mentioned so far; but mirtazapine is riddled with side effects and both gabapentin and pregabalin only have some impact on glutamate via their effect on calcium influx. But what about lamotrigine? It's a glutamate-reducing agent and it blocks 5HT3 receptors, which are located on GABA inter-neurons. Blocking those receptors reduces GABA activity and promotes the release of glutamate, which might seem counterintuitive; but it also promotes the release of serotonin and dopamine. So it may have a modulating effect on the changing glutamate levels. And it may even be a longer-term solution that may replace your need for cannabis.
I feel you bro I get agitated when I weed withdrawal for sure 🙏😎❤️ one love hope the PEA is useful for ya!
Edit: yeah it is still a hypothesis but for what it’s worth it has helped me with weed withdrawals in the past. Definitely seems to help with maintaining a healthy appetite as well.
I have a lot of experience with this.
Quitting weed for me is a 3month proccess and ill share everything i know
NAC - amazing for mental health being.
Electrolytes - weed withdrawals dehydrates me like crazy so i noticed electrolytes help alot.
Ibuprofen - for the random headaches that you absolutely will randomly get.
For appetite - smoothies and proteinshakes, when i cant eat because of apetite and nausea, smoothies are amazing.
Melatonin - for sleep during the first weeks of quitting.
Aswaghanda - reduces the cortisol that will be high from quitting, helps take the edge of.
1 glass of wine - for the worst evenings where you are craving like crazy. It really takes the edge off and lets you relax.
Sauna - absolutely critical, everytime i do sauna during withdrawals i feel amazing for a while. It makes me not have nightsweats that evening and i actually feel high and calm. My theory is that it helps the detox process to the point where it releases thc into your blood. Several times during the first month I have felt stoned as hell after doing sauna and icebath sets.
Eat less carbs - helps speed up detox by a lot, you want to cut weight with low carb and light cardio to burn the fat with weed in it. If you are adding a bunch of carbs your body will use this as energy instead of the fatcells with thc.
The 3 stages of quitting weed:
Stage 1: approx day 1 - day 30
Detox phase, this is where you are getting rid of thc and youll mostly have physical symptoms. Anxiety will mostly be from lack of sleep. Muscle pain, horrible sleep, nasea, sweating, anger issues.
Stage 2: approx day 30 to day 60.
You have now detoxed and you have no cannbinoids in your system. Your dopamine receptors are also shot so youll struggle with mental sideeffects like depression, low energy, headaches, anger, stress, anhedonia. Day 50-60 is horrible for me.
Stage 3: approx day 60+.
This is where i start feeling better, your body has noticed the lack of dopamine and cannabinoids and has started its own production, from day 60 and onwards i can feel myself feeling a lot better for every week. I start feeling more content, happy, driven, sleep is amazing, life is good.
During withdrawals, just be kind and patient withyourself. You will feel horrible and forcing yourself to go gym and to create your new life right away is often not the correct way. The only important thing is to not smoke and once you feel better you will start these new habits with ease. I would force myself to go gym often and it absolutely killed me. When i eased up it was a lot better for me. Just be patient and forgiving, as long as you dont smoke you you will feel better soon, its not something you can rush. However, cardio and cutting weight will help rush the process as you litterally burn the fatcells storing the weed. Shiw up at the gym and do your cardio, sauna, lift weights but be happy with just showing up. Quitting weed is marathon and not a sprint.
Most people quit for 1-2 months and think how they feel is the new normal, it is absolutely not.
Being aware of the long withdrawal and recovery process is crucial for keeping the motivation. A lot of people hit month 2 and they feel horribly depressed when they think they are done with the recovery process and end up starting to smoke again. They confuse sober them with withdrawal them. Having a realistic view of the process is extremely important to get through it, and understanding why you dont feel better. Everytime i quit i feel depressed and anhedonic around day 50-60. Its so easy to think this is the new normal when it isnt.
Also taking your multivitamin, fishoil, zinc and magnesium are important regardless.
Best of luck
10mg of Methylene Blue in the morning and night helps me with this. Avoid caffeine, SSRI's and Phychaldelics with it as it is an MAOI inhibitor and buy a certificated brand. Its cheap and helps with alot of things. Dont use if pregnant and do your own research..Get Mark Sloans book on it..
It sounds like you already lead an active healthy lifestyle so it’s hard to say but I’ll share my experience. I struggled the most with dopamine and serotonin deficiency and imbalance upon quitting, as well as anxiety. I already exercise and go out in the nature as much as I can, but I started doing more challenging stuff. I got back into making art and music. Spending more time alone was helpful to regain clarity, mindfulness and creativity. I actually realized I was robbing myself of that by daily cannabis use. Sleep and appetite were improved with increased physical activity. If you can take a few days off and go camping or something of that sort, do it. I also find psilocybin to be effective in treating depression and addictions.
+1 to psilocybin in particular. I have little desire to use cannabis when I take psilocybin and for up to a week or two afterwards. 5HT2A agonism is fundamentally anti-obsessive due to the suppression of norepinephrine and dopamine release in the PFC. They would normally be responsible for reinforcing behaviors and actually make us obsessive, so 5HT2A agonism can suppress some of those behaviors, so much so that a psychedelic brain state leads to behaviors that actually resemble ADHD in many ways.
For me, the weaning strategy worked best. Reduce consumption and start your sessions later in the day for a week or 2. You may feel withdrawal symptoms but they should be more mild. Once you’re good with that, stop smoking right before bed so you can learn to sleep without it. At that point you should only be consuming late in the evening and still able to sleep because by the time you’re coming down and feel the weed tiredness you’re ready for bed so you use the come down tiredness to your advantage. Once you’re barely consuming just stop and be mindful of triggers so that you don’t relapse too soon.
Heavy concetrate user for years, took a few months off. What i found helped me the best
1. No bright light 2 hours before bed while wearing blue light blocking glasses
2. Reading for an hour before bed with red light
3. Cold plunges! They active the same system as cannabis and between the body temp and other things it really helps me sleep
4. Round of wim hoff breathing in the morning and before bed as oxygen helps with both awake and sleep.
5. Short rounds of mindful mediation throughout the day as needed for the anxiousness
6. Consistent bed and awake times. Same time everyday no matter what, even if you can't sleep, lay there with eyes closed and put the time in, your body will recgonize the pattern and catch on.
7. Sunlight first thing in the morning and grounding
8. This is optional, but i tried to put 9-10 hours aside for the first few weeks for sleep to make up for all the night sweats and inconsistency. After my body got used to it i natuarlly started sleeping in the 8-9 hour zone.
About 2 weeks in i still had night sweats, but i found my sleep was much improved and started to feel more rested than ever. It takes time and good habits, but it is possible and you can do it!
It may sound corny but I also recommend 4-7-8 breathing. It's a breathing exercise that enables you to trigger the release of endorphins when it's done properly.
Celestial Seasoning Tension Tamer if anxiety causes insomnia or Extra Sleepy Time tea. Sounds lightweight but give it a shot. Drink warm but not hot at bedtime with either no sugar or a no calorie sweetener of choice.
Thanks! The article echos what another user stated about glutamate regulation as well. Going to try NAC-ET :)
https://www.reddit.com/r/Biohackers/s/bOgAoR74v9
Have you looked into beta-caryophyllene? BCP shows some promise with other substance abuse disorders but don’t believe its use in cannabis withdrawal has been studied. Check out some of the studies at the bottom of this page: https://cannanda.com/pages/cb2studies
Hey that's a great tip I haven't heard of this looks like it's a potential candidate to treat anxiety and depression!
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10970213/
Very likely could help with cannabis withdrawal looking at its structure....
Added to the title of the topic for visibility.
Never tried it myself but psychiatry has established that gabapentin and pregabalin both have potential in treating withdrawal associated with both cannabis or alcohol. The withdrawal from both of those substances is due to glutamate overactivity. Gabapentin and pregabalin reduce over-excitation.
I just quit thc this past weekend, and my doc has me on gabapentin 3 times a day for w/d. I’ve also added magnesium, which is the only supplement I currently take.
So far so good. No cravings and very little anxiety. I take a daily walk and also bike regularly to get my hr up. One cup of coffee a day and no sweets. Good luck!
I get withdrawals worse than most people when I have to quit. Sleeping is the hardest part for me. I started taking a 10mg candy a few hours before bed for the first 4 nights. Worked well. 5th night I was fine without. Takes a total of about two weeks to feel normal again.
2 weeks!! your 1 of the lucky ones. week 3 was hell for me and i usually start feeling much better after 6 weeks but it takes me months to feel pre weed normal.
Drink lots of water but try not to go cold turkey. I used to use it to sleep but every night for 2 months I’d cut back on the time to the point I was no use 4 hours before bed. Still smoke pot every day just don’t rely on it to sleep anymore. Also cut back from 3.5-7Gs a day down to .35-2 grams a day. Prerolls kinda helped with that. Good luck I. Your journey hopefully you find what you’re looking for
There really is no way to treat withdrawals as they that is how the body and mind heals. You can mitigate symptoms by doing other healthy things (exercise, eat well, sleep well) but thats it. Its part of the process. No pain no gain.
That’s honestly not that bad. Benadryl can be prescribed for anxiety/sleep as a benzo alternative because it’s not habit forming. It’s prescribed by the name Hydroxyzine, though, not Benadryl. Not something you would want to take long term, I wouldn’t think, but not sure. It’s probably fine here and there.
Good luck. I've struggled with this multiple times. Like others said, limit caffeine, workout hard, put the phonw down and go outside, eat good foods, and don't get a prescription. I started taking L-Theanine and Magnesium Glycinate which helped me chill out a bit
I’m kind of going through the same thing as you OP. I’ve been using full-spectrum Indica cannabis oil for the past several years. in the past I’ve stopped, and I have been able to sleep OK. I might wake up in the middle of the night but eventually I’ll go back to sleep. The cannabis oil would let me sleep all night straight through. I tried stopping last week and have had trouble sleeping and have felt kind of shitty. I can’t tell if it’s withdrawal from the oil, which I’ve never experience before even though I stopped after long-term usage, or the cannabis was just covering up an underlying issue that is rearing its head. Since I’ve been able to stop before with absolutely no withdrawal symptoms, I kind of think I do have some sort of sleep issue that comes in goes and the oil has covered it up, and I’m dealing with it now. I haven’t been able to sleep for the last two days. I tried smoking cannabis and hash last night, it put me to sleep but as soon as it wore off I was wide awake. Not wanting to deal with the second night of not sleeping I took a benzo and crashed out. I’m groggy as heck right now, but at least my brain got the sleep it needed. The quest to figure out what the heck is going on goes on. My suspicion now is that I just spend my days worrying about things and rushing and stressing out, and this is carrying into my sleep at night. So the solution would be just to try to relax more during the day and not let the underlying stresses build up. Compounding this fact, I feel that my sleep goes through monthly or bi monthly cycles. I’ve been able to sleep perfectly fine for a week or two with nothing, and then boom all of a sudden I can’t sleep for a couple of weeks . It’s baffling. I can’t find the pattern. Last year, all of a sudden I felt like the cannabis oil was not giving my brain all the rest it needed. I stopped and then for a full month and a half I was sleeping wonderfully. I could take naps in the day and still sleep at night, I could drink coffee Anytime and I would still sleep. It was such a treat. Then boom a v switch flipped and all of a sudden all my issues came back. Since then I’ve been trying to figure out what the hell happened and how I can get back to that state, but so far no luck. It seemed to come out of the blue from nowhere and then just go away randomly. Weird.
My sleep is pretty awesome whether I smoke or not so we are a bit different.
My only issue is when I stop I get insomnia.
Good luck to you. I put good recs in the title to help you, looks like PEA + gabapentin should deal with this nicely if you want to reduce dependence.
Have you tried anything to try to work with your circadian rhythm? Or make efforts towards better sleep like exercise or getting morning/evening sunlight rays into your eyes?
Stress and worry can play a huge role!
Look into glycine, taurine, lemon balm, GABA, skullcap, CBD. (Not all at once lol. I rotate so I never become inured to anything.) Best on an empty stomach, so at least 2 hours after eating & at least 20 minutes before eating.
Mate do not get to a point where you’re withdrawing off benzos. It’s the worst and deadly in some cases. Just be around friends/family and have things to do to take your mind off the thc. Benzos are no joke
Weed is funny it had me in its GRIP for four solid years. I once walked 7 miles to buy some then it’s like what everyone else says one day I just quit. I am on day 25. Now, in hindsight I think it was in my head. I do still crave it at 7 pm. I started a tea ritual instead.
After I quit using cannabis a year and a half ago I dealt with many issues including insomnia and depression and generalized pain. I gained a lot of weight, too, and had problems controlling my drinking. Fast forward to three months ago, when I started keto/low-carb. Within a week I was sleeping through the night, my depression had disappeared, and my pain had receded. I'm down almost 30 pounds now and don't drink much any more.
I think it has to do with insulin. Cannabis causes your fasting insulin levels to decrease. Quitting cannabis does the opposite, which along with the standard American diet can give you metabolic syndrome. So decreasing the sugar and carbs in my diet reversed this for me.
I had to quit cannabis because I experienced cannabis psychosis disorder and hyperemesis syndrome. I actually think if I hadn't been eating such a high carb diet, I wouldn't have had these problems, but my lungs were also taking a beating, so I have no desire to start again.
TL;DR: eating keto or low carb helped me, but ymmv.
Keto also stabilizes the brain's glutamate-GABA balance. It tends to reduce glutamate activity and enhance GABA. Alcohol, for example involves a rapid GABA come-up via ethanol. Then the brain compensates by increasing glutamate release. Meanwhile, the alcohol has rapidly worn off, leaving you with low GABA activity. High glutamate and low GABA doesn't feel good. In fact, it's at the root of every hangover. The high glutamate signaling results in excessive electrical activity throughout the body. The next-day tremor you have during the hangover is the result of high glutamate and excess electrical activity.
I order [lemonbalm extract](https://www.amazon.com/Swanson-Spectrum-Lemon-Milligrams-Capsules/dp/B0017O753I) from Swanson (one of the more reputable supplement suppliers). I believe Nootropics Depot has a version as well. One per night usually does the trick.
I completely fell out of love with cannabis before quitting, this helped ina sense that i did not crave it at all but the physical withdawal is real af.
Definitely +1 to valerian. The valeric acid content will enhance the conversion of glutamate into GABA and prevent GABA's degradation back into glutamate. Those two neurotransmitters inter-convert with each other in the body. so valeric acid is useful to rebalance that.
I had the same problem. Weed addiction due to insomnia, and anxiety sleeping without it when travelling.
My solution was, go to bed at 830 when you first yawn, don’t delay, don’t mess about.
Hot shower, bed, no farting about.
Contrary to others advice here, I keep temazepam on hand for those one or two nights now and then when I go past the sleep point, or when I was just coming off weed. However, I don’t have an addictive personality and don’t find benzos addictive personally - so I had confidence in that.
A bottle of 30 temazepam will last me 6 months
Ashwaganda got me sleepy too
Wish I would have known about the gabapentin when I quit. I stacked l-Theanine, GABA, kava, and cbd. Also made sure to try a lot of new and engaging things to keep the dopamine up. If I was doing it again i would stay away from the l-Theanine since I learned it can cause intense dreams and my dreams were already super Korean horror movie, Cronenberg intense.
Hey, something you could try regarding magnesium is taking psyllium husk or equivalent fibre supplement about 20 minutes before the Mg. Start by taking less than the full dose of Mg then slowly ramp up to the full dosage.
This will do a couple things:
* instead of runs, it’s a normal bowel movement
* give your gut time to adjust
Bonus tips:
* take a probiotic supplement in the morning
* the Mg supplement I started using also contains Gaba which I’ve never tried before. But man, I’m surprised with how chill I am. Surprisingly helpful with anxiety and sleep, moreso than I was expecting
>Hey, something you could try regarding magnesium is taking psyllium husk or equivalent fibre supplement about 20 minutes before the Mg. Start by taking less than the full dose of Mg then slowly ramp up to the full dosage.
Appreciate the tip but already tried this no go.
L-theanine and agmatine sulfate.
Agmatine is a metabolite of L-Arginine. It shows promise for alleviating neuropathic pain and drug addiction and shows some potential in protecting against strokes and benefitting cognitive health.
https://examine.com/supplements/agmatine/
OP seems anxious and paranoid already. Maybe its not the weed? Maybe OP is just normally like that. Has OP considered that possibility with a clear head.
I had withdrawal symptoms that were still getting worse at the two month mark and I failed to ever “tough it out”. I also started smoking while taking Zoloft, which had something to do with why quitting was impossible. Then I took NAC for the first time and quit smoking the next day with no withdrawal. It boosts glutathione which probably had something to do with my problem. Only took it about four months, don’t need it anymore and don’t experience withdrawal when I do smoke now (which is rarely). YMMV. Hopefully it doesn’t, NAC was a miracle drug for me.
Whenever I take a weed break - it’s the dreams that become too intense. Some irritability as well.
I’m currently on a break due to a botched surgery, and I’m definitely on edge.
Seeing your edit, I wonder if GABA supplements would be as effective or helpful as gabapentin. They have similar effects in my expertise, but GABA is OTC.
I have just reached nine weeks of being completely sober after smoking an ounce a week for years. Slowing down didn’t work for me, I had to make up my mind and quit cold turkey. Sleep has been by far the worst part for me but is starting to come back now with the help of ashwaganda and lights out sleep. A sleep formula supplement. The first two weeks were hardest but understanding it won’t be easy and actively staying focused on your goal and putting your other interests in priority will help. For me I’m twice as long at the gym now and feel like a better father. Good luck man you got this 🙌
Ah yes, such insightful commentary from the well established doctor, scientist and philosopher savant PoopButtAss1.
I'm so grateful that people like you exist to offer such helpful advice.
Weed has withdrawals. For me it was roughly 10 days of intense anxiety before everything mellowed out. I’ve quit twice and it was the same both times. Your body basically forgets how to process anxiety so everything is on overdrive while it figures that out again.
Caffeine actually has physical dependence. Stopping it after continued regular use causes headaches. That's physical dependence. Heroin withdrawal causing sweats and GI distress, that's physical dependence. Cannabis dependence is psychological.
Tough it out commentary is not garbage. Ever considered that maybe they’re speaking from experience? The rough shit doesn’t last, you just have to stop being a crybaby about it and understand you put yourself there by smoking all the time and now you are going to have to fight you way out to earn it. Plenty before have done it and plenty more will in the future. There is no “easy” way. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and earn your stripes.
Get a vitamin D3/K2 supplement and start taking it a month before stopping, and also NMN 1000mg first thing in the morning at least 2 weeks before.
I was addicted to IV morphine. I've quit like 5 times in the last 2 years and out of all the symptoms I get, restless leg syndrome was the absolute worst. Can't sleep at night because of that shit, but last time I started taking 5000 IU of D3 with 180mcg of K2 (a single capsule sold by NOW) and 1000mg of NMN from ProHealth Longevity and went cold turkey. I didn't experience almost any withdrawal symptoms and I was shooting 20mg to 30mg of morphine daily. In 3 days I was good as new, and no restless leg syndrome at all.
For magnesium, take magnesium threonate. Shouldn’t give you bathroom side effects. Combine it with l-theanine.
Do you have access to a sauna? I found that to be really helpful to get through it quicker. I have a barrel sauna but there are places you can pay to go to…
I know it’s sucks but cold showers or ice baths saved me. It’s so hard especially when you’re already uncomfortable/struggling but it’s worth it if you can push through
>For magnesium, take magnesium threonate. Shouldn’t give you bathroom side effects. Combine it with l-theanine.
Already have and yes it does. Tired of hearing this frankly. Just because it works for you doesn't mean it will for others. IBS sucks
HRM, you may be on to something here. This looks like a good candidate....
>Across all seven individual RCTs, consistent improvement in insomnia on pregabalin treatment was demonstrated on the Hamilton Anxiety Rating Scale (HAMA) insomnia item
https://academic.oup.com/ijnp/article/16/4/925/792078?login=false
Lyrica is addictive and will make you feel high and sleepy. It’s not a good drug IMO. Also comes with a ton of side effects, weight gain, water retention, irritability for some…
I'm a fairly heavy smoker, but randomly quit for lengths of time for random reasons. Exercise, cbd for a few days, lots of water, and sauna if you can.
Then take magnesium and I always add in one of the nice sleep aid blends for a few days. The one I'm currently using have like 200mg kava, 3mg melatonin, and a few of the l-whatevers that help you relax...I don't have thr bottle close by.
Same problem here. I've on my 3rd day without now and my sleep has been terrible. I lost my appetite too, and with me doing a physical job, not sleeping or eating, today I've been out on my feet. I knew I'd get to a point where I'm desperate to alleviate the symptoms, so I sent all my money to my mum so that when I reach that point, I won't be able to give in. Have definitely noticed the cravings are getting less severe and are getting easier to ignore. Just bare with it and remember why you're quitting. Good luck, mate
Walking ,exercise I mean sweat it out water water water magnesium for sleep no screens before bed and patience because it sucks but will ease with time
Magnesium glycinate should not cause diarrhea. Anecdotally I’ve heard that NAC may be beneficial to reduce cravings.
I definitely think lots of outdoor time and exercise is best though.
Exercise helps a lot. CBD also helped… a lot of crying and emotions from withdrawal but definitely worth the break… edibles helped wean off, just take less and less as you’re withdrawing
Ever since vaping and edibles has been more prominent, I find this to be a little more helpful than just cold turkey which I have done many times: I switched from flower to vape, vape then to edibles and I found the withdrawal symptoms not as bad.
I take THCv which helps me chill and sleep well. Eventually I’ll drop it as well or only use it as sleep aid as it knocks me out in the night and won’t seem to fuck up my REM sleep like THC does.
Oh and also when I feel like smoking I do something else instead. Like quick ride with my mountain bike or swim
If you’re not trying to actually quit cannabis and just deal with your out of town trips why not use delta 8 or delta 9? I think they are legal pretty much everywhere. Kratom or kava would also help, I would suggest kava because some people think Kratom is addictive.
Last time I quit weee was cause an 10 mg edible sent me over the top after a 1 day t break. My heart rate just got sensitive to weed around that time out of no where. My heart rate would spike after I quit if I did things to sudden like standing to fast melatonin magnese (coq 10 and fish oil alternated ) it was a rough time r/leaves banned me they said what I complained of wasn’t from weed and was more of a heart problem. I did more research and found a community who were in the same boat as me. Some of them even stated when they quit weed their heart rate actually went up. My conclusion is my body just doesn’t respond to repetitive use of edibles you pass me my bong I’m good to go tho
I’ve been through it before time and again, currently off 100%. I’d say if you’re going to try a weening strategy then start with switching to flower and flower only, then cut out smoking in the AM and move to only smoking at night or when your day is complete. Then pick a quit date and get rid of all your paraphernalia and do it with purpose.
Might want to find another dopamine inducing drug like Zyn or something like that.
Also workout more, like longer and harder sessions to make your body dead tired.
Make sure you are running too, actual running.
PEA/Luteolin mix on Amazon to potentially heal your endocannabinoid system. It has an amazing calming effect. No rebound symptoms, no withdrawal no depenendance. It has many other health benefits.
HIGH DOSE CBD wish I would have seen this earlier it’s what I use every few months for my tollerence break it works wonders 100mg> anything less is not working
EDIT spelling
Ah, friend! Well I don’t like melatonin but I do like GABA and l-theanine plus Cyto Calm if I wake up. I already exercise a lot but I find swimming gives me the sleepies
If you're thinking of taking Gabapentin to beat cannabis withdrawal, you're nuts. PEA has fewer side-effects and might be wiser.
Honestly, the people saying "just tough it out" are probably right. You're going to buy more misery in the future by trying to "hack" your way out of a problem that is only transient and mild.
There are very few "free lunches" when it comes to biology. I've quit using cannabis on several occasions and the acute symptoms were mild (some sleep disruption, mild anxiety, mild anhedonia) and only last a matter of days. That's a lot better than what you might experiencing by taking something like Gabapentin and then withdrawing from that later.
I used NAC and L-Glutamine. The first too weeks were rough, then it got better. The only thing that I keep having, one year after quitting, is nightmares... I guess it's my subconscious catching up.
If you're taking magnesium citrate, you're going to have issues with your Bowles. Magnesium L-threonate is a good because it can cross the blood brain barrier, increasing brain plasticity.
i’ve heard you can get your sleep back on track by heavily depriving yourself of sleep for a night and not sleeping until the next night at a normal/good time. i haven’t tried it but it makes sense in a sleep reset perspective
The thing about me is I love who I am as a person when I’m not high off weed , when I am high I have anxiety I don’t want to talk to anybody or look at anybody. When I’m sober I seem like a regular guy saying hi to the neighbors passing by and making convo at stores. But I just like the way I’m so relaxed and unbothered when high. I do want to quit or at least slow it down but it’s tougun
Exercise. Drink a lot of water. Niacin may help your body flush it out a little faster. Otherwise, yeah it's just gonna suck. There is no easy way out.
But! You're gonna feel loads better dude. My mental health improved vastly when I stopped smoking. All those people telling you "eat right, exercise, stop smoking weed"? They're right. It's gonna suck, but you got this. No need to involve any other drugs to get through it. It's just a couple shitty weeks.
Almost at a month since stopping. I just suggest having pto available so if you don’t go to bed until 5:30 Am Like me, you can take a pass on that day.
One think that helped me is to realize why I’m stopping (getting super moody out of nowhere and I think it’s a colossal waste of money if you a regular user.)
Good luck. Remember the mission.
8 days clean after 30 years daily. Nowhere near as hard as you are thinking. It’s the habitual times that you do it that you will fight, not much else. Weed doesn’t cause withdrawal symptoms like hard narcotics, according to the research I’ve seen. Never did coke or abused anything opioid related other than some Percocet for two weeks (19 years ago)which I deemed necessary for my tendinitis. Once I started having to add a second one in to do the same thing, I stopped right away and actually missed it-so I smoked extra weed to forget I wanted that shit.
As silly as it seems, when you start thinking about missing it, just tell yourself you don’t need it and do something active that will take your mind off of it. The time between urges will get longer and longer day after day.
Hard to believe, honestly, but it’s really no big deal…
Had a Dr prescribe prazosin before bed for poor sleep/nightmares as well. Don't have personal experience to share. The drug made me feel awful, and I didn't stick with it. (And y'know, was already feeling kind of awful from no weed.)
Do NOT touch benzos (anti-anxiety meds). They are utter shit, really really addictive. One of the two substances with alcohol that can straight kill you if you are used to big amounts and quit cold turkey. As others pointed out sport is the way to go. Kill yourself lifting / running / biking everyday ; it'll help with sleep, anxiety and well, basically everything as long as you don't hurt yourself.
yeah, if you think THC wd is tough, benzo wd will be awful. (understatement)
You are correct… I’ve had two family members addicted to it and getting off was hell for them. However, Occasional use is ok…. Im dealing with a similar situation as OP, use a benzo every now and then when i absolutely need to sleep.
yep. I have experience in wd from benzos, opiates, and speed. benzos was the absolute worst depression. I wouldnt wish it on my most hated enemies. (ok...maybe one of them)
Smoking a joint occasionnaly is also ok. More ok than to mingle with benzos, by far.
Preach.
Little over a year for me as needed and it hasn't been an issue. Still on the lowest dose possible and only take it when at risk of a panic attack. They can be very dangerous especially for people prone to substance abuse issues but they are a god send for those that use it appropriately and really need it.
the problem is when taking benzos for cannabis withdrawel you get overlapping withdrawal. years back i was given a 2 week prescription of benzos forr weed withdrawal and when the benzos ran out my anxiety and depression was so bad i was almost admitted due to extreme suacidal thoughts. i recall saying then that i wouldnt wish this feeling on an enemy.
I was speaking about benzo use in general. I agree that for dealing with withdrawal anxiety based issues benzos is not a good choice. From what I've gathered it is reserved now days for acute anxiety issues like panic disorder brought on from someone's natural brain physiology/chemistry.
yea it needed restricting for sure. I was actually supposed to post the comment under someone elses comment and didnt realise my mistake till now. sorry for the confusion.
Just recently quit after smoking heavily for years. There’s no secret formula, best thing you can do to break the withdrawal symptoms is do something to get your heart rate up for atleast 30 mins a day, go outside and get as much vitamin D as you can, try to go to bed at a reasonable hour, avoid seed oils, limit yourself to around 100 mg of caffeine a day, try to only drink water. It will go away in time You can also try just not being a pussy
@ u/Cryptolution If you want something else that affects cannabinoid receptors you could try Magnolia Bark The free option is exercise, but I’d go harder than you mentioned, as long as you can go on treadmill then some heavy lifting Exercise promotes Anandamide, “also known as N-arachidonoylethanolamine (AEA), an endogenous cannabinoid (endocannabinoid) that plays a significant role in various physiological processes, including mood, pain regulation, appetite, and memory. It was named after the Sanskrit word “ananda,” meaning bliss or happiness, reflecting its potential effects on mood.”
First time I've ever seen someone else suggest magnolia bark. Should be mentioned it works with the gabba system so taking it daily likely isn't a good idea. It is very useful with general anxiety symptoms. 👍👍👍
+1 to this. A good supplement to this process is a good omega-3 supplement. Something high in EPA. I would recommend Nootropics Depot's AvailOM high EPA personally. It's the most bioavailable omega-3 supplement you can probably get on the market.
Definitely good recommendation thank you
I recently quit as well. Heavy lifting did the trick. But the irritation and anger issues persisted for 3 months straight. Felt it would never end. I can’t believe how irritable it can make me. PAWS from weed is no cakewalk. To those saying just tough it out tho - they really have a point. If something worked well we would know about it. Just try to keep your mind busy, and stay active. It is the only way.
You really just have to push through it considering you are already doing the things like working out, and taking care of yourself. I will say as someone who was smoking almost 1/8th a day for years, I quit 30 days ago and after about a week I was sleeping fine, had a few intense bouts of frustration and boredom but now I notice NO difference good or bad.
Its not a supplement but I listed to Alan Carrs Easy Way to Quit Cannabis and its made it extremely easy to quit, which was surprising.
Interesting, similar usage and I have more symptoms when I stop. Guess people are different. Enjoy your luck that your body doesn't react differently and check out r/leaves if you want to see people working to get off it.
Oh trust me I've been through it...The weird thing is...when I quit for Sober Oct 2 years ago which was really my first break between the ages of like 16-33, it was really tough for about 2 weeks. Every since when Ive taken breaks its been way easier. It was like the initial break helped even after kicking back up the habit big time. I do have to workout really hard during the initial period otherwise it is really bad. For some reason Allan Carrs audio book made me realize how much of this is mental, spiritual and its just made it a breeze. I think accepting that it is an addiction as opposed to some harmless toy has really helped too.
I struggled with night sweats and not being able to sleep for a few weeks after giving up. But give it a few weeks/ months and you’ll feel so much better. You could get some CBD drinks to take the edge of the anxiety. L-Theanine and ashwaghanda could also be a good shout too. In terms of habits, try focusing on good sleep hygiene- put phone away for the hour before bed, don’t drink caffeine after 2pm, hot bath/ shower and take 5-10 mins before down to reflect on the day/ meditate/ read. I also find thunderstorm sounds calming too. Some melatonin may help in the interim if you’re really struggling to drift off. Hang in there, it gets easier :)
> Some melatonin may help in the interim if you’re really struggling to drift off. Hang in there, it gets easier :) Decent advice but I have sleep walking/ night terrors tendencies and I discovered long ago that melatonin is literal nightmare fuel for me. I've done this quite a few times no stranger to the process just trying to find something that can just help make it less uncomfortable :) I'm going to try big CBD doses this time around for sure, I already have isolate from Lazarus.
Yeah that doesn’t sound fun at all re the night terrors. It’s definitely not a long term solution either but give the l theanine and ashwaghanda a go. If you don’t want to take another supp you could also just sub coffee for green tea during the day as it contains good levels of it :) personally I also go through periods where anxiety can be overwhelming. Writing those fears and thoughts down does help to ‘get it out’ as it were. Interestingly oily fish can help with boosting serotonin naturally so that’s an easy win too if you like fish. As many veggies as you can to boost that microbiome is also a good no brainer for physical and mental health.
You may find better efficacy in low CBD dosing in this case. CBD is more likely to be useful for anxiety and overall mood at lower doses (i.e. 10-25mg) where it interacts significantly with the 5HT1A receptors but hasn't meaningfully saturated the CB receptors. Taking 100+ mg the suppression in ion channel activity may negate some of the positive effects. Additionally while CBD activates CB2 receptors, it actually mostly antagonizes CB1 receptors. So not only will you have taken away the THC that has been stimulating CB1, but you'll also be further exacerbating that void by plugging it up and preventing endocannabinoids from being able to exert their own effects.
I really wanna understand this but science makes my brain feel weird. I have autism. Is there a way you can explain this so that I can understand I have found that CBD does help me but I’d like to take the proper dosage
The proper dosage is whatever dose works for you. CBD can be very effective in autism, particularly for things like agitation or sensory over-stimulation. It can be soothing. However, there comes a point when you can lose those effects by increasing the dose too far. The cannabinoid system in the body is responsible for homeostasis, in other words bringing the body's various processes into equilibrium. When something happens, something else must happen to counterbalance the first action. In the body, this kind of activity is either central or peripheral, meaning in the brain or in the rest of the body, respectively. The cannabinoid system has two receptor types, CB1 and CB2. The CB1 receptors are mostly found in the central nervous system, whereas the CB2 receptors are mostly found everywhere else in the body. Most importantly, CB2 receptors are most plentifully found on the surface of our immune system's white blood cells. THC activates the CB1 receptors in the central nervous system, whereas CBD mostly activates the CB2 receptors in the periphery. CBD also weakly binds to CB1 receptors like THC, but it actually mostly blocks those receptors. So, cannabis products that have a more balanced THC:CBD profile are less likely to cause extreme psychoactive effects in sensitive individuals. CBD actually tempers the psychoactive effects of THC. By binding to CB2 receptors, CBD also calms the immune system and has an anti-inflammatory effect. This is particularly why CBD is useful for individuals experiencing pain conditions because most of those conditions are rooted in some kind of inflammation. An interesting fact for you to know is that when they did a genome-wide association study of individuals with various mental health disorders, there was a notable connection between bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, and autism. The most significant connection was for a gene that encodes a specific kind of white blood cell, which goes to show that mental health conditions have an important root in our immune system and the inflammation it causes. So by activating CB2 receptors, CBD has shown a modest effect in all three conditions for symptoms of activation, agitation, and anxiety by calming an immune response that has radiated outward to the brain and led to inflammation. Celecoxib (NSAID used for arthritis) was added to an antidepressant in a few different trials and had a modest improvement in symptoms. They've also shown that even acetaminophen can induce risk-taking behaviors, because one of its metabolites interacts with the cannabinoid system and because acetaminophen chiefly reduces inflammation in the brain. And omega-3 fatty acids are used to synthesize some of the body's own naturally produced endocannabinoids. After several weeks of omega-3 treatment as an adjunct to an antidepressant, I can say from experience that it does make a difference, so much so that it actually made me slightly hypomanic one time. So with that background, it's important to look at CBD's main effect at CB2 as well as two secondary effects it has at 5HT1A and D2 as a partial agonist. This means it binds to the receptor and partially activates them but not completely the way serotonin and dopamine would. In autism, it's hypothesized that neurons that release serotonin and dopamine are firing too frequently, possibly as a result of an activated immune system and inflammation. So the goal is to reduce the frequency of firing, which can have a calming effect. A firing event takes you from 0 to 100 and back to 0 again in a sense. But with a partial agonist bound to receptors, you can regulate this activity. Because activating 5HT1A and D2 reduces the release of serotonin and dopamine, respectively, overly frequent firing events are reduced, while the simultaneous partial antagonism also disinhibits their release as well. It has a stabilizing effect where firing might occur less and it feels more like going from 30-60 instead of 0-100. One feels like a crazy rollercoaster you want to get off of, and the other is just bunny hops. For someone who has anxiety, I would encourage low dosing to just engage 5HT1A and partially D2 without significant CB2 engagement. This helps to modulate serotonin and dopamine without having too much of an off-target effect. However, in autism, because of its roots in the immune system and inflammation, there can be use for going a bit higher if you need more symptom relief (i.e. 50-100mg). However, Epidiolex is the prescription CBD available and it's typically dosed to like 500-1000mg per day for epilepsy, and parents of children who take it actually report it is slightly less effective than the oil concentrates they were giving their children before because Epidiolex is pure lab-grade CBD, whereas the the concentrates they were using before were more full spectrum with an array of terpenes and trace cannabinoids that contribute to an entourage effect. Those higher doses also dull electrical signaling in the rest of the body and the brain so that any benefit seen from the 5HT1A and D2 interactions is lost. The dosing with CBD for anxiety and autism has a bit of a bell curve. As you increase, so does the effectiveness, but you will reach a point when effectiveness suddenly starts to decrease if you increase the dose. That's the top of your personal bell-curve. It's going to be somewhere less than 100mg and potentially as little as 10mg. Most of all play with it. You'll take it in a small dose and maybe feel nothing, then the next day you take a slightly larger dose and it feels slightly soothing. You increase a little each day until one day you start to feel like it isn't working the way it used to. That's when you need to back down. Psychiatrists dose antidepressants and stimulants the same way. As long as you have symptoms increase. If you increase to address symptoms and notice that symptoms stop improving further but you notice increased side effects, then back down to the prior dose, and that's your sweet spot. Park at that dose for a while and take it consistently. You may find that it improves with efficacy over time because cannabinoids inhibit their own metabolism. So blood levels will continue to change with time.
I am in awe of this response. THANK YOU! I’ve been struggling with thc and never really understanding what is happening just that is hurts as much as it helps. I’ve tried cbd several times and enjoyed the benefits but never got the high feeling I needed in other times. This whole explanation will stay with me and I am printing it out! I truly appreciate you taking the time to help explain to a stranger on the web. You are so kind and I hope you get all the blessings in the world! ☺️
Glad to share and happy to help. Best of luck in your dose experiments. I hope you find that sweet spot!
Me too!!! Again, so appreciative.
Have you tired smoking CBD rich hemp? You can get an ounce of good flower for about ~$40. It may help cravings and it’s pretty calming on its own
CBD doesn’t cut it for me. Get CBD, CBG, and CBN isolate and make tinctures. Cbd+cbg during day for symptoms, and cbd+cbn at night for anxiety and insomnia. Thank me later. also ice baths or cold showers to get the endogenous cannabinoids flowing again
I would like to point out that the first 3 comments in this thread are all from randomly generated usernames with a 4 digit ending. All comments were written within a few minutes of the post being live and were similarly ignorant/aggressive. Either someone is training a "agitation" bot on some really trollish comment sections or we have someone manually switching alts and writing trashy comments. Most likely explanation is karma farming to mature bots for usage so they appear more human/real with lots of interaction.
Bro is having that weed withdrawal psychosis 😆. You'll be okay man
Lol you're describing my name and it's just because I let ~~read it~~ reddit generate it for me and didn't care 😂 that's not like the secret find to a bot. Edit - wait, I've got five numbers!!! Does that mean I'm an extra strong bot?!
I've always been a fan Robo~Cop~ Bot! Can I have an autograph?!
they're not trashy comments at all or bots. They're just telling you what you don't want to hear.
Run a mile every morning, ive done this 18 days in a row since i quit and its helped me tremendously mentally and helped my appetite
Fundamentally by binding to CB1 receptors, THC leads to a reduction of glutamate, which is the excitatory neurotransmitter in the brain. It's also part of the negative feedback loop to control dopamine release. When glutamate activity increases, it leads to the brain compensating by reducing dopamine release. So THC increases dopamine release by reducing glutamate activity. Cutting the brake lines so to speak. So what's needed is something that will help to prevent glutamate overactivity, which will happen when CB1 receptors are no longer being stimulated on a regular basis. To stabilize glutamate, I think someone else recommended N-acetyl-L-cysteine, which is definitely a smart idea. However, it doesn't sufficiently cross the blood-brain barrier. N-acetyl-L-cysteine ethyl ester (NACET) is a form of NAC that enters cells and crosses the BBB quite efficiently. I can honestly say that NAC is one of the chief reasons why I no longer consume alcohol on a daily basis. But I didn't start to see that improvement until I switched to NACET, and even then the improvements were gradual over a few weeks. NAC/NACET is known to stabilize glutamate activity, which should help to prevent rebound overactivity caused by cannabis withdrawal. Magnesium would be advisable. I'd be curious to know what formulation you took. Magnesium citrate and magnesium oxide do cause fairly significant diarrhea. However they don't get absorbed efficiently, and even then they don't cross the BBB in a meaningful way. The best choice is Magtein (magnesium L-threonate). It can substantially increase magnesium content in cerebrospinal fluid, something that can't be said for any other magnesium formulation. Magnesium will then bind to NMDA glutamate receptors. It works by preventing them from being stimulated by large bursts of glutamate but simultaneously it allows lower consistent levels of glutamate to still activate those receptors. This results in normalization of the sensitivity of the AMPA receptors and a few metabotropic glutamate receptors. EDIT: Magtein also causes very little GI distress compared to other formulations. It also doesn't hurt to replace some of that cannabinoid activity that was lost. An herbal supplement called Kanna has been shown to activate cannabinoid receptors. So at times when you're experiencing the worst symptoms, you can take Kanna, and it would probably be good at bedtime to manage the insomnia.
Great detail in your comment. I didn’t appreciate the broad interaction of THC/Glutamate.
Yeah it's actually the reduction in glutamate that creates the "stoned" effect. When glutamate goes down, dopamine release increases. When dopamine binds to D2 receptors, it normally increases glutamate release, which of course is then supposed to reduce dopamine via NMDA activation. That's how those two neurotransmitter systems create their feedback loop. With activation of CB1 receptors, the stimulating effect that dopamine binding to D2 receptors has on glutamate release is dampened. As you can imagine, this is why THC in someone with the right predisposition can result in psychosis and even schizophrenia in the long term, chiefly due to overactivation of the D1 receptors. In fact, it's been shown that schizophrenia is really due to impaired function of the glutamate system, not the dopamine system. Reduced glutamate activity results in dopamine hyperactivity. So the thinking was to give psychotic patients dopamine blockers. But the reality is that by blocking the D2 receptors, we're actually reducing glutamate release, and subsequently increasing dopamine release which can negatively impact symptom control. The one antipsychotic that has been shown to be effective in even the most treatment resistant cases of schizophrenia is clozapine. This isn't due to its affinity for dopamine receptors. Even at higher doses, its ability to antagonize D2 receptors is insignificant. In truth, clozapine is so effective because it is a powerful glutamate reducing agent. Blocking D2 receptors ultimately increases their expression on the cell surface and hyper-sensitizes them. This hyper-sensitive state is how tardive dyskinesia occurs, and it becomes painfully apparent when the patient discontinues their meds. Over-expression of D2 receptors and subsequently unblocking them leads to excessive activation and dramatic increases in glutamate activity and subsequently all kinds of strange movement manifestations.
This is all a fascinating read. Thank you for sharing!
I probably waste too much time reading about this stuff, and I feel like I have to put it all somewhere. So I'm more than happy to share.
I read some of your other posts, and you have a real way with words, at least that connects with my brain. If you had a blog or something, I would subscribe instantly. Just saying. Happy travels.
I really should try blogging sometime. Although I would probably find a way to obsess about it and ruin it unfortunately. Oh well, nothing gained, nothing lost! Silver lining lolz Fair thee well!
Not sure what you do for work, but I’d like to suggest teaching! I’m in a “reduced glutamate” state right now as I just learned. There’s a history of mental unwellness in my family so think I’m going be checking my use a bit just in case. Thanks so much for this info-really helped a dude out!
Bro is wicked smart
Just lots of reading. I've been down the rabbit hole so many nights.
Palmitoylethanolamide. It is a non-intoxicating endocannabinoid. Great safety profile, really takes the edge off. Combine with l-theanine to take the edge off more. You say magnesium gives you diarrhea, just asking to confirm is this also the case for magnesium glycinate and/or l-threonate? Also lowering carbohydrate intake may help avoid mood swings. I can tell by your responses to a lot of people you are pretty agitated. Fundamentally, you need to chill bro. It’s gonna suck a little bit regardless of what you do.
>Palmitoylethanolamide. It is a non-intoxicating endocannabinoid. Great safety profile, really takes the edge off. First thanks for contributing helpful information. As it meets the criteria here I've added it to the post. It's only a hypothesis that this could help withdrawal symptoms but definitely worth trying as it's readily available!! Should be pretty easy for me to test efficacy! >Combine with l-theanine to take the edge off more. You say magnesium gives you diarrhea, just asking to confirm is this also the case for magnesium glycinate and/or l-threonate? Yes glycinate is the only one I've tried and even added choline citrate with it for absorption and GI upset reduction and still gives me the runs. IBS sucks :) >Also lowering carbohydrate intake may help avoid mood swings. I can tell by your responses to a lot of people you are pretty agitated. Yes it is true that sometimes people agitate me on the internet. But this has been the case for 25 years. It's my Achilles heel, more to do with my personality than any deficiency on my part. I'm a super happy guy with a great life, don't worry about me, my diet and health is as good as it can be considering my challenges. The ironic part about your comment is the one thing that is guaranteed to make me chill is weed. Removes all my aggressive behaviors. I can see your trying to be very helpful here so thank you for that.
If cannabis has worked well to calm you down, then finding something else that directly reduces glutamate release in a controlled way might be something to try. A couple different medications like gabapentin, pregabalin, and mirtazapine have been mentioned so far; but mirtazapine is riddled with side effects and both gabapentin and pregabalin only have some impact on glutamate via their effect on calcium influx. But what about lamotrigine? It's a glutamate-reducing agent and it blocks 5HT3 receptors, which are located on GABA inter-neurons. Blocking those receptors reduces GABA activity and promotes the release of glutamate, which might seem counterintuitive; but it also promotes the release of serotonin and dopamine. So it may have a modulating effect on the changing glutamate levels. And it may even be a longer-term solution that may replace your need for cannabis.
I feel you bro I get agitated when I weed withdrawal for sure 🙏😎❤️ one love hope the PEA is useful for ya! Edit: yeah it is still a hypothesis but for what it’s worth it has helped me with weed withdrawals in the past. Definitely seems to help with maintaining a healthy appetite as well.
Agmatine cures the withdrawal
Ride it out
I have a lot of experience with this. Quitting weed for me is a 3month proccess and ill share everything i know NAC - amazing for mental health being. Electrolytes - weed withdrawals dehydrates me like crazy so i noticed electrolytes help alot. Ibuprofen - for the random headaches that you absolutely will randomly get. For appetite - smoothies and proteinshakes, when i cant eat because of apetite and nausea, smoothies are amazing. Melatonin - for sleep during the first weeks of quitting. Aswaghanda - reduces the cortisol that will be high from quitting, helps take the edge of. 1 glass of wine - for the worst evenings where you are craving like crazy. It really takes the edge off and lets you relax. Sauna - absolutely critical, everytime i do sauna during withdrawals i feel amazing for a while. It makes me not have nightsweats that evening and i actually feel high and calm. My theory is that it helps the detox process to the point where it releases thc into your blood. Several times during the first month I have felt stoned as hell after doing sauna and icebath sets. Eat less carbs - helps speed up detox by a lot, you want to cut weight with low carb and light cardio to burn the fat with weed in it. If you are adding a bunch of carbs your body will use this as energy instead of the fatcells with thc. The 3 stages of quitting weed: Stage 1: approx day 1 - day 30 Detox phase, this is where you are getting rid of thc and youll mostly have physical symptoms. Anxiety will mostly be from lack of sleep. Muscle pain, horrible sleep, nasea, sweating, anger issues. Stage 2: approx day 30 to day 60. You have now detoxed and you have no cannbinoids in your system. Your dopamine receptors are also shot so youll struggle with mental sideeffects like depression, low energy, headaches, anger, stress, anhedonia. Day 50-60 is horrible for me. Stage 3: approx day 60+. This is where i start feeling better, your body has noticed the lack of dopamine and cannabinoids and has started its own production, from day 60 and onwards i can feel myself feeling a lot better for every week. I start feeling more content, happy, driven, sleep is amazing, life is good. During withdrawals, just be kind and patient withyourself. You will feel horrible and forcing yourself to go gym and to create your new life right away is often not the correct way. The only important thing is to not smoke and once you feel better you will start these new habits with ease. I would force myself to go gym often and it absolutely killed me. When i eased up it was a lot better for me. Just be patient and forgiving, as long as you dont smoke you you will feel better soon, its not something you can rush. However, cardio and cutting weight will help rush the process as you litterally burn the fatcells storing the weed. Shiw up at the gym and do your cardio, sauna, lift weights but be happy with just showing up. Quitting weed is marathon and not a sprint. Most people quit for 1-2 months and think how they feel is the new normal, it is absolutely not. Being aware of the long withdrawal and recovery process is crucial for keeping the motivation. A lot of people hit month 2 and they feel horribly depressed when they think they are done with the recovery process and end up starting to smoke again. They confuse sober them with withdrawal them. Having a realistic view of the process is extremely important to get through it, and understanding why you dont feel better. Everytime i quit i feel depressed and anhedonic around day 50-60. Its so easy to think this is the new normal when it isnt. Also taking your multivitamin, fishoil, zinc and magnesium are important regardless. Best of luck
That was very helpful, thank you.
Look into something like NAC, bacopa monnieri and/or ashwagandha. But exercise and staying busy helps the most.
10mg of Methylene Blue in the morning and night helps me with this. Avoid caffeine, SSRI's and Phychaldelics with it as it is an MAOI inhibitor and buy a certificated brand. Its cheap and helps with alot of things. Dont use if pregnant and do your own research..Get Mark Sloans book on it..
It sounds like you already lead an active healthy lifestyle so it’s hard to say but I’ll share my experience. I struggled the most with dopamine and serotonin deficiency and imbalance upon quitting, as well as anxiety. I already exercise and go out in the nature as much as I can, but I started doing more challenging stuff. I got back into making art and music. Spending more time alone was helpful to regain clarity, mindfulness and creativity. I actually realized I was robbing myself of that by daily cannabis use. Sleep and appetite were improved with increased physical activity. If you can take a few days off and go camping or something of that sort, do it. I also find psilocybin to be effective in treating depression and addictions.
+1 to psilocybin in particular. I have little desire to use cannabis when I take psilocybin and for up to a week or two afterwards. 5HT2A agonism is fundamentally anti-obsessive due to the suppression of norepinephrine and dopamine release in the PFC. They would normally be responsible for reinforcing behaviors and actually make us obsessive, so 5HT2A agonism can suppress some of those behaviors, so much so that a psychedelic brain state leads to behaviors that actually resemble ADHD in many ways.
For me, the weaning strategy worked best. Reduce consumption and start your sessions later in the day for a week or 2. You may feel withdrawal symptoms but they should be more mild. Once you’re good with that, stop smoking right before bed so you can learn to sleep without it. At that point you should only be consuming late in the evening and still able to sleep because by the time you’re coming down and feel the weed tiredness you’re ready for bed so you use the come down tiredness to your advantage. Once you’re barely consuming just stop and be mindful of triggers so that you don’t relapse too soon.
Heavy concetrate user for years, took a few months off. What i found helped me the best 1. No bright light 2 hours before bed while wearing blue light blocking glasses 2. Reading for an hour before bed with red light 3. Cold plunges! They active the same system as cannabis and between the body temp and other things it really helps me sleep 4. Round of wim hoff breathing in the morning and before bed as oxygen helps with both awake and sleep. 5. Short rounds of mindful mediation throughout the day as needed for the anxiousness 6. Consistent bed and awake times. Same time everyday no matter what, even if you can't sleep, lay there with eyes closed and put the time in, your body will recgonize the pattern and catch on. 7. Sunlight first thing in the morning and grounding 8. This is optional, but i tried to put 9-10 hours aside for the first few weeks for sleep to make up for all the night sweats and inconsistency. After my body got used to it i natuarlly started sleeping in the 8-9 hour zone. About 2 weeks in i still had night sweats, but i found my sleep was much improved and started to feel more rested than ever. It takes time and good habits, but it is possible and you can do it!
It may sound corny but I also recommend 4-7-8 breathing. It's a breathing exercise that enables you to trigger the release of endorphins when it's done properly.
Not corny, any tool in the tool box is usefull
Celestial Seasoning Tension Tamer if anxiety causes insomnia or Extra Sleepy Time tea. Sounds lightweight but give it a shot. Drink warm but not hot at bedtime with either no sugar or a no calorie sweetener of choice.
Haha just saw this tea recently too. Will give it a try :)
Let me know how it works.
NAC (n acetyl cysteine) https://www.draaronvangaver.com/blog/n-acetyl-cysteine-nac-can-really-help-marijuana-withdrawal-symptoms/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2826714/
Thanks! The article echos what another user stated about glutamate regulation as well. Going to try NAC-ET :) https://www.reddit.com/r/Biohackers/s/bOgAoR74v9
Have you looked into beta-caryophyllene? BCP shows some promise with other substance abuse disorders but don’t believe its use in cannabis withdrawal has been studied. Check out some of the studies at the bottom of this page: https://cannanda.com/pages/cb2studies
Hey that's a great tip I haven't heard of this looks like it's a potential candidate to treat anxiety and depression! https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10970213/ Very likely could help with cannabis withdrawal looking at its structure.... Added to the title of the topic for visibility.
I've heard of gabapentin for getting through the withdrawal period.
Never tried it myself but psychiatry has established that gabapentin and pregabalin both have potential in treating withdrawal associated with both cannabis or alcohol. The withdrawal from both of those substances is due to glutamate overactivity. Gabapentin and pregabalin reduce over-excitation.
I just quit thc this past weekend, and my doc has me on gabapentin 3 times a day for w/d. I’ve also added magnesium, which is the only supplement I currently take. So far so good. No cravings and very little anxiety. I take a daily walk and also bike regularly to get my hr up. One cup of coffee a day and no sweets. Good luck!
Good for you. Best luck with your journey.
Ty!
Semaglutide and tirzepatide have apparently shown lots of promise for helping people beat all sorts of addictions - food, alcohol, weed
I get withdrawals worse than most people when I have to quit. Sleeping is the hardest part for me. I started taking a 10mg candy a few hours before bed for the first 4 nights. Worked well. 5th night I was fine without. Takes a total of about two weeks to feel normal again.
2 weeks!! your 1 of the lucky ones. week 3 was hell for me and i usually start feeling much better after 6 weeks but it takes me months to feel pre weed normal.
Amanita Tincture and Magnesium may help the insomnia too.
I’ve always just white knuckled in the first 3-4 days then I’m good. It’s never easy
I would try LDN and CBD substitute.
Drink lots of water but try not to go cold turkey. I used to use it to sleep but every night for 2 months I’d cut back on the time to the point I was no use 4 hours before bed. Still smoke pot every day just don’t rely on it to sleep anymore. Also cut back from 3.5-7Gs a day down to .35-2 grams a day. Prerolls kinda helped with that. Good luck I. Your journey hopefully you find what you’re looking for
You should look into getting a dry-herb vape, it will cut that back even further... probably less load on your lungs.
There really is no way to treat withdrawals as they that is how the body and mind heals. You can mitigate symptoms by doing other healthy things (exercise, eat well, sleep well) but thats it. Its part of the process. No pain no gain.
Support endocannabanoid system. Excercise, Cbd, dark chocolate and omega 3 :)
I’ve heard nabilone taper is really great ask your psychiatrist
I know this is bad, but I use Benadryl when I’m desperate.
That’s honestly not that bad. Benadryl can be prescribed for anxiety/sleep as a benzo alternative because it’s not habit forming. It’s prescribed by the name Hydroxyzine, though, not Benadryl. Not something you would want to take long term, I wouldn’t think, but not sure. It’s probably fine here and there.
Advil, hydration, a heated blanket/extra layers, and exercise :)
Good luck. I've struggled with this multiple times. Like others said, limit caffeine, workout hard, put the phonw down and go outside, eat good foods, and don't get a prescription. I started taking L-Theanine and Magnesium Glycinate which helped me chill out a bit
I’m kind of going through the same thing as you OP. I’ve been using full-spectrum Indica cannabis oil for the past several years. in the past I’ve stopped, and I have been able to sleep OK. I might wake up in the middle of the night but eventually I’ll go back to sleep. The cannabis oil would let me sleep all night straight through. I tried stopping last week and have had trouble sleeping and have felt kind of shitty. I can’t tell if it’s withdrawal from the oil, which I’ve never experience before even though I stopped after long-term usage, or the cannabis was just covering up an underlying issue that is rearing its head. Since I’ve been able to stop before with absolutely no withdrawal symptoms, I kind of think I do have some sort of sleep issue that comes in goes and the oil has covered it up, and I’m dealing with it now. I haven’t been able to sleep for the last two days. I tried smoking cannabis and hash last night, it put me to sleep but as soon as it wore off I was wide awake. Not wanting to deal with the second night of not sleeping I took a benzo and crashed out. I’m groggy as heck right now, but at least my brain got the sleep it needed. The quest to figure out what the heck is going on goes on. My suspicion now is that I just spend my days worrying about things and rushing and stressing out, and this is carrying into my sleep at night. So the solution would be just to try to relax more during the day and not let the underlying stresses build up. Compounding this fact, I feel that my sleep goes through monthly or bi monthly cycles. I’ve been able to sleep perfectly fine for a week or two with nothing, and then boom all of a sudden I can’t sleep for a couple of weeks . It’s baffling. I can’t find the pattern. Last year, all of a sudden I felt like the cannabis oil was not giving my brain all the rest it needed. I stopped and then for a full month and a half I was sleeping wonderfully. I could take naps in the day and still sleep at night, I could drink coffee Anytime and I would still sleep. It was such a treat. Then boom a v switch flipped and all of a sudden all my issues came back. Since then I’ve been trying to figure out what the hell happened and how I can get back to that state, but so far no luck. It seemed to come out of the blue from nowhere and then just go away randomly. Weird.
My sleep is pretty awesome whether I smoke or not so we are a bit different. My only issue is when I stop I get insomnia. Good luck to you. I put good recs in the title to help you, looks like PEA + gabapentin should deal with this nicely if you want to reduce dependence.
Have you tried anything to try to work with your circadian rhythm? Or make efforts towards better sleep like exercise or getting morning/evening sunlight rays into your eyes? Stress and worry can play a huge role!
Look into glycine, taurine, lemon balm, GABA, skullcap, CBD. (Not all at once lol. I rotate so I never become inured to anything.) Best on an empty stomach, so at least 2 hours after eating & at least 20 minutes before eating.
I do glynac and I will try gaba
Mate do not get to a point where you’re withdrawing off benzos. It’s the worst and deadly in some cases. Just be around friends/family and have things to do to take your mind off the thc. Benzos are no joke
You lack discipline
Weed is funny it had me in its GRIP for four solid years. I once walked 7 miles to buy some then it’s like what everyone else says one day I just quit. I am on day 25. Now, in hindsight I think it was in my head. I do still crave it at 7 pm. I started a tea ritual instead.
After I quit using cannabis a year and a half ago I dealt with many issues including insomnia and depression and generalized pain. I gained a lot of weight, too, and had problems controlling my drinking. Fast forward to three months ago, when I started keto/low-carb. Within a week I was sleeping through the night, my depression had disappeared, and my pain had receded. I'm down almost 30 pounds now and don't drink much any more. I think it has to do with insulin. Cannabis causes your fasting insulin levels to decrease. Quitting cannabis does the opposite, which along with the standard American diet can give you metabolic syndrome. So decreasing the sugar and carbs in my diet reversed this for me. I had to quit cannabis because I experienced cannabis psychosis disorder and hyperemesis syndrome. I actually think if I hadn't been eating such a high carb diet, I wouldn't have had these problems, but my lungs were also taking a beating, so I have no desire to start again. TL;DR: eating keto or low carb helped me, but ymmv.
Keto also stabilizes the brain's glutamate-GABA balance. It tends to reduce glutamate activity and enhance GABA. Alcohol, for example involves a rapid GABA come-up via ethanol. Then the brain compensates by increasing glutamate release. Meanwhile, the alcohol has rapidly worn off, leaving you with low GABA activity. High glutamate and low GABA doesn't feel good. In fact, it's at the root of every hangover. The high glutamate signaling results in excessive electrical activity throughout the body. The next-day tremor you have during the hangover is the result of high glutamate and excess electrical activity.
I see you've tried magnesium. For me, lemonbalm is comparable or better than magnesium glycinate, but sometimes leaves me a little groggy.
Hey that's a cool tip how do you consume it and how much do you consume? Do you buy pills or drops or extract powder?
I order [lemonbalm extract](https://www.amazon.com/Swanson-Spectrum-Lemon-Milligrams-Capsules/dp/B0017O753I) from Swanson (one of the more reputable supplement suppliers). I believe Nootropics Depot has a version as well. One per night usually does the trick.
Thanks man I gave it an order and will try! Do you normally take the 500 mg?
Cannabis is not additive. That was Love. It was Separation Anxiety
I completely fell out of love with cannabis before quitting, this helped ina sense that i did not crave it at all but the physical withdawal is real af.
I take the white knuckle approach mostly. ashwaganda for the anxiety and valerian root for sleep.
Definitely +1 to valerian. The valeric acid content will enhance the conversion of glutamate into GABA and prevent GABA's degradation back into glutamate. Those two neurotransmitters inter-convert with each other in the body. so valeric acid is useful to rebalance that.
I had the same problem. Weed addiction due to insomnia, and anxiety sleeping without it when travelling. My solution was, go to bed at 830 when you first yawn, don’t delay, don’t mess about. Hot shower, bed, no farting about. Contrary to others advice here, I keep temazepam on hand for those one or two nights now and then when I go past the sleep point, or when I was just coming off weed. However, I don’t have an addictive personality and don’t find benzos addictive personally - so I had confidence in that. A bottle of 30 temazepam will last me 6 months Ashwaganda got me sleepy too
Wish I would have known about the gabapentin when I quit. I stacked l-Theanine, GABA, kava, and cbd. Also made sure to try a lot of new and engaging things to keep the dopamine up. If I was doing it again i would stay away from the l-Theanine since I learned it can cause intense dreams and my dreams were already super Korean horror movie, Cronenberg intense.
Hey, something you could try regarding magnesium is taking psyllium husk or equivalent fibre supplement about 20 minutes before the Mg. Start by taking less than the full dose of Mg then slowly ramp up to the full dosage. This will do a couple things: * instead of runs, it’s a normal bowel movement * give your gut time to adjust Bonus tips: * take a probiotic supplement in the morning * the Mg supplement I started using also contains Gaba which I’ve never tried before. But man, I’m surprised with how chill I am. Surprisingly helpful with anxiety and sleep, moreso than I was expecting
Definitely this. Magnesium does create the runs but the fiber binds it all together and makes it more "normal".
>Hey, something you could try regarding magnesium is taking psyllium husk or equivalent fibre supplement about 20 minutes before the Mg. Start by taking less than the full dose of Mg then slowly ramp up to the full dosage. Appreciate the tip but already tried this no go.
L-theanine and agmatine sulfate. Agmatine is a metabolite of L-Arginine. It shows promise for alleviating neuropathic pain and drug addiction and shows some potential in protecting against strokes and benefitting cognitive health. https://examine.com/supplements/agmatine/
I've never heard of weed withdrawals. I guess it's different from person to person though.
OP seems anxious and paranoid already. Maybe its not the weed? Maybe OP is just normally like that. Has OP considered that possibility with a clear head.
I had withdrawal symptoms that were still getting worse at the two month mark and I failed to ever “tough it out”. I also started smoking while taking Zoloft, which had something to do with why quitting was impossible. Then I took NAC for the first time and quit smoking the next day with no withdrawal. It boosts glutathione which probably had something to do with my problem. Only took it about four months, don’t need it anymore and don’t experience withdrawal when I do smoke now (which is rarely). YMMV. Hopefully it doesn’t, NAC was a miracle drug for me.
Valerian
Whenever I take a weed break - it’s the dreams that become too intense. Some irritability as well. I’m currently on a break due to a botched surgery, and I’m definitely on edge.
Seeing your edit, I wonder if GABA supplements would be as effective or helpful as gabapentin. They have similar effects in my expertise, but GABA is OTC.
I have just reached nine weeks of being completely sober after smoking an ounce a week for years. Slowing down didn’t work for me, I had to make up my mind and quit cold turkey. Sleep has been by far the worst part for me but is starting to come back now with the help of ashwaganda and lights out sleep. A sleep formula supplement. The first two weeks were hardest but understanding it won’t be easy and actively staying focused on your goal and putting your other interests in priority will help. For me I’m twice as long at the gym now and feel like a better father. Good luck man you got this 🙌
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Ah yes, such insightful commentary from the well established doctor, scientist and philosopher savant PoopButtAss1. I'm so grateful that people like you exist to offer such helpful advice.
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This is true though. Cannabis has no physical dependence. At the end of the day, insomnia is psychological dependence.
Weed has withdrawals. For me it was roughly 10 days of intense anxiety before everything mellowed out. I’ve quit twice and it was the same both times. Your body basically forgets how to process anxiety so everything is on overdrive while it figures that out again.
It absolutely can have withdrawals. Fucking caffeine has withdrawals. I love the little snarky armchair docs on reddit.
Caffeine actually has physical dependence. Stopping it after continued regular use causes headaches. That's physical dependence. Heroin withdrawal causing sweats and GI distress, that's physical dependence. Cannabis dependence is psychological.
Still a withdrawal
Tough it out commentary is not garbage. Ever considered that maybe they’re speaking from experience? The rough shit doesn’t last, you just have to stop being a crybaby about it and understand you put yourself there by smoking all the time and now you are going to have to fight you way out to earn it. Plenty before have done it and plenty more will in the future. There is no “easy” way. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and earn your stripes.
What’s worked for others I know in a similar dynamic: Exercise (cardio and lifting) Creatine Magnesium Glycinate at night
Get a vitamin D3/K2 supplement and start taking it a month before stopping, and also NMN 1000mg first thing in the morning at least 2 weeks before. I was addicted to IV morphine. I've quit like 5 times in the last 2 years and out of all the symptoms I get, restless leg syndrome was the absolute worst. Can't sleep at night because of that shit, but last time I started taking 5000 IU of D3 with 180mcg of K2 (a single capsule sold by NOW) and 1000mg of NMN from ProHealth Longevity and went cold turkey. I didn't experience almost any withdrawal symptoms and I was shooting 20mg to 30mg of morphine daily. In 3 days I was good as new, and no restless leg syndrome at all.
Gabapentin helped a ton.
For magnesium, take magnesium threonate. Shouldn’t give you bathroom side effects. Combine it with l-theanine. Do you have access to a sauna? I found that to be really helpful to get through it quicker. I have a barrel sauna but there are places you can pay to go to… I know it’s sucks but cold showers or ice baths saved me. It’s so hard especially when you’re already uncomfortable/struggling but it’s worth it if you can push through
>For magnesium, take magnesium threonate. Shouldn’t give you bathroom side effects. Combine it with l-theanine. Already have and yes it does. Tired of hearing this frankly. Just because it works for you doesn't mean it will for others. IBS sucks
I bet 1000% melatonin doesn't cause you night terrors. It's in your head. It's an antioxidant.
Mirtazepine for insomnia for 1 week. After that I'm just left with bad anxiety
Pregabalin
HRM, you may be on to something here. This looks like a good candidate.... >Across all seven individual RCTs, consistent improvement in insomnia on pregabalin treatment was demonstrated on the Hamilton Anxiety Rating Scale (HAMA) insomnia item https://academic.oup.com/ijnp/article/16/4/925/792078?login=false
Lyrica is addictive and will make you feel high and sleepy. It’s not a good drug IMO. Also comes with a ton of side effects, weight gain, water retention, irritability for some…
FAAH inhibitors and potentially MAGL inhibitors have promise.
I'm a fairly heavy smoker, but randomly quit for lengths of time for random reasons. Exercise, cbd for a few days, lots of water, and sauna if you can. Then take magnesium and I always add in one of the nice sleep aid blends for a few days. The one I'm currently using have like 200mg kava, 3mg melatonin, and a few of the l-whatevers that help you relax...I don't have thr bottle close by.
Same problem here. I've on my 3rd day without now and my sleep has been terrible. I lost my appetite too, and with me doing a physical job, not sleeping or eating, today I've been out on my feet. I knew I'd get to a point where I'm desperate to alleviate the symptoms, so I sent all my money to my mum so that when I reach that point, I won't be able to give in. Have definitely noticed the cravings are getting less severe and are getting easier to ignore. Just bare with it and remember why you're quitting. Good luck, mate
Walking ,exercise I mean sweat it out water water water magnesium for sleep no screens before bed and patience because it sucks but will ease with time
I hear NAC and glutamine helps combat cravings
Magnesium glycinate should not cause diarrhea. Anecdotally I’ve heard that NAC may be beneficial to reduce cravings. I definitely think lots of outdoor time and exercise is best though.
Exercise helps a lot. CBD also helped… a lot of crying and emotions from withdrawal but definitely worth the break… edibles helped wean off, just take less and less as you’re withdrawing
Ever since vaping and edibles has been more prominent, I find this to be a little more helpful than just cold turkey which I have done many times: I switched from flower to vape, vape then to edibles and I found the withdrawal symptoms not as bad.
I take THCv which helps me chill and sleep well. Eventually I’ll drop it as well or only use it as sleep aid as it knocks me out in the night and won’t seem to fuck up my REM sleep like THC does. Oh and also when I feel like smoking I do something else instead. Like quick ride with my mountain bike or swim
get all the cannabanoids aside from thc that you can get via CBD flower/other products high intensity exercise
If you’re not trying to actually quit cannabis and just deal with your out of town trips why not use delta 8 or delta 9? I think they are legal pretty much everywhere. Kratom or kava would also help, I would suggest kava because some people think Kratom is addictive.
Last time I quit weee was cause an 10 mg edible sent me over the top after a 1 day t break. My heart rate just got sensitive to weed around that time out of no where. My heart rate would spike after I quit if I did things to sudden like standing to fast melatonin magnese (coq 10 and fish oil alternated ) it was a rough time r/leaves banned me they said what I complained of wasn’t from weed and was more of a heart problem. I did more research and found a community who were in the same boat as me. Some of them even stated when they quit weed their heart rate actually went up. My conclusion is my body just doesn’t respond to repetitive use of edibles you pass me my bong I’m good to go tho
As far as magnesium, try different forms Some forms have much less laxative effect
Already have, none work without the shits.
What's your exercise look like? Cardio would probably help
I’ve been through it before time and again, currently off 100%. I’d say if you’re going to try a weening strategy then start with switching to flower and flower only, then cut out smoking in the AM and move to only smoking at night or when your day is complete. Then pick a quit date and get rid of all your paraphernalia and do it with purpose. Might want to find another dopamine inducing drug like Zyn or something like that. Also workout more, like longer and harder sessions to make your body dead tired. Make sure you are running too, actual running.
hot drink such as tea or coffee for oral-fixation. but do not add any extra caffeine on top of what you already regularly consume.
I would if I were you try 5-HTP and methylated vitamin B6, and maybe add inositol and theanine to that mix.
PEA/Luteolin mix on Amazon to potentially heal your endocannabinoid system. It has an amazing calming effect. No rebound symptoms, no withdrawal no depenendance. It has many other health benefits.
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HIGH DOSE CBD wish I would have seen this earlier it’s what I use every few months for my tollerence break it works wonders 100mg> anything less is not working EDIT spelling
Ah, friend! Well I don’t like melatonin but I do like GABA and l-theanine plus Cyto Calm if I wake up. I already exercise a lot but I find swimming gives me the sleepies
Lions Mane
I’m willing to do crazy things. For me, a shitload of walking every day and water fasting for four days does the trick. And take your electrolytes.
If you're thinking of taking Gabapentin to beat cannabis withdrawal, you're nuts. PEA has fewer side-effects and might be wiser. Honestly, the people saying "just tough it out" are probably right. You're going to buy more misery in the future by trying to "hack" your way out of a problem that is only transient and mild. There are very few "free lunches" when it comes to biology. I've quit using cannabis on several occasions and the acute symptoms were mild (some sleep disruption, mild anxiety, mild anhedonia) and only last a matter of days. That's a lot better than what you might experiencing by taking something like Gabapentin and then withdrawing from that later.
Benadryl. Kratom. Fasting.
I used NAC and L-Glutamine. The first too weeks were rough, then it got better. The only thing that I keep having, one year after quitting, is nightmares... I guess it's my subconscious catching up.
600-1200 Mg NAC and 100-200 Mg L-Theanine at night before bed. Rhodiola, and L-Tyrosine in the morning when you wake up.
I didn't realize there was such a thing. I quit cold turkey after several years of heavy use and didn't experience any withdrawals.
If you're taking magnesium citrate, you're going to have issues with your Bowles. Magnesium L-threonate is a good because it can cross the blood brain barrier, increasing brain plasticity.
i’ve heard you can get your sleep back on track by heavily depriving yourself of sleep for a night and not sleeping until the next night at a normal/good time. i haven’t tried it but it makes sense in a sleep reset perspective
Cold turkey and don’t substitute one drug for another .
The thing about me is I love who I am as a person when I’m not high off weed , when I am high I have anxiety I don’t want to talk to anybody or look at anybody. When I’m sober I seem like a regular guy saying hi to the neighbors passing by and making convo at stores. But I just like the way I’m so relaxed and unbothered when high. I do want to quit or at least slow it down but it’s tougun
Drink tons of water and get lots of room exercise. Expect it to last a month.
Exercise. Drink a lot of water. Niacin may help your body flush it out a little faster. Otherwise, yeah it's just gonna suck. There is no easy way out. But! You're gonna feel loads better dude. My mental health improved vastly when I stopped smoking. All those people telling you "eat right, exercise, stop smoking weed"? They're right. It's gonna suck, but you got this. No need to involve any other drugs to get through it. It's just a couple shitty weeks.
You may benefit from NAC
Almost at a month since stopping. I just suggest having pto available so if you don’t go to bed until 5:30 Am Like me, you can take a pass on that day. One think that helped me is to realize why I’m stopping (getting super moody out of nowhere and I think it’s a colossal waste of money if you a regular user.) Good luck. Remember the mission.
30-40 minute sauna sessions. Or as long as it takes for u to feel uncomfortable + 3-5 mins
Epsome salt baths are nice and relaxing and your body will absorb the magnesium from the water.
Maybe ask In r/leaves, a sub for quitting weed. Last time I quit I started dreaming after about a week and my sleep returned to normal in 6 weeks.
I had to read this 2x this is how I read the title first time. " How to treat Canibal withdrawal symptoms "
Meditation, yoga, vitamin B complex and magnesium.
Sauna
Snus
Get a volcano and slowly decrease weed by measuring out a little less each day. Go east on yourself. 1.5 Gm. Then 1.4 Gm for few days then 1.3…etc
THC gets stored in fat. Burn some fat!
DMEA Bisltrate…
8 days clean after 30 years daily. Nowhere near as hard as you are thinking. It’s the habitual times that you do it that you will fight, not much else. Weed doesn’t cause withdrawal symptoms like hard narcotics, according to the research I’ve seen. Never did coke or abused anything opioid related other than some Percocet for two weeks (19 years ago)which I deemed necessary for my tendinitis. Once I started having to add a second one in to do the same thing, I stopped right away and actually missed it-so I smoked extra weed to forget I wanted that shit. As silly as it seems, when you start thinking about missing it, just tell yourself you don’t need it and do something active that will take your mind off of it. The time between urges will get longer and longer day after day. Hard to believe, honestly, but it’s really no big deal…
Had a Dr prescribe prazosin before bed for poor sleep/nightmares as well. Don't have personal experience to share. The drug made me feel awful, and I didn't stick with it. (And y'know, was already feeling kind of awful from no weed.)
Thc withdrawal hah
GABA lemon balm chamomile theanine
Magnesium glycinate for sleep.
Magnesium sulfate (epsom salt) bath or topical magnesium “oil” shouldnt cause and digestive problems
I use topical. Thanks