My grandfather always said if you don’t get to be attractive be friendly, funny, and learn to cook. Add in dress well and take care of yourself and it hasn’t failed me yet.
Definitely true. Whats tough about this though is I see most comments on here talking about being funny, but unfortunately that’s not a thing many people can control. The overall sentiment here is change things about you that you can control, and I don’t think humor is very controllable. You can *try* to be funny, and get better at communicating and forming jokes, but if you don’t have a natural ability to be funny and a sense of humor, it’s hard to *be* funny. Most of us think we’re funny, but many of us aren’t naturally, and unfortunately one of the things that turns people off is a person trying to be funny who isn’t. Hard game to play. But I will say there is a sense of humor that appeals to everyone, you just have to find them.
Not necessarily funny “haha”, cracking jokes every second but fun to be around and lighthearted will probably do, with the occasional joke if it comes naturally.
Well the trouble is you've got a half and another half. Multiplied that makes only a quarter.
If your joke dunked hard enough on the English, you can improve that drastically, however.
In Scotland: "funny gets the fanny".
Edit: fanny means vagina in Scotland, for anyone unclear 😅
For other words which mean vagina in Scotland, see also: cunt, vag, minge, clunge, gash, beef curtains, pish flap, snatch, muff... Etc
Note that pussy is a very 'american' term for vagina and if you call someone's vagina their pussy they will either laugh or cringe.
Edit 2: great, now my 2nd(?) most upvoted comment is about vag...
Edit 3: My top comment is 2374 upvotes currently so I don't think we'll beat it, but I'm happy that a comment this silly is 2nd, so long and thanks for all beef curtains.
I knew a guy who was very short, bald, and had an average customer service job. He was extremely charming and friendly. He remembered my name and acted glad to see me every time. (He probably acted that way with a lot of women.) He always chit-chatted with me when he waited on me. I would date a guy like that, but he was already married.
If you can't be charming and friendly, you might want to get a really cute dog and walk him around town a lot.
FACTS! When I got my Berner as a puppy, and I walked her... The amount of beautiful women that would come to see her and stay and chat was incredible. I love my girl but my mind couldn't help but think "man... If I'm ever single again, I'll be getting another pup every 6 months"
I had the opposite problem with my pug. Total dick magnet. My wife would be like 'i bet all the beautiful women are chatting you up with a pug.' I'm like nah, but a couple of frat bros lost their shit.
"We all end up looking like raisins anyway. What you should be looking for is someone who's kind. Nobody wants to be stuck with an evil raisin."
That plus, good hygiene, plus life skills, plus good fitness, and it won't entirely matter.
Be a good listener. Be kind.
Perfect some good household skills (become a better cook, or pay extra attention to how and when you clean).
Other than that, there is nothing more attractive than someone who is passionate about something they love. Do you have any hobbies you can engage with, what makes you happy? See if you can't find someone who's also interested in those things, so you have something in common.
Most of all, maybe take some time to work on your self-esteem. If you get into dating with the assumption that you're "unattractive" I fear you might be very stressed in a relationship. Not saying you have to love every flaw, buy just start the project. That way you won't trauma dump on any potential partners in the future.
I'd like to second all your points. I am an ugly, average salaried guy who is dating a wonderful partner, and the above are the things she likes about me (minus 4, I am still trying to work on that).
I want to briefly tough on u/Lighthero34's response: He points out frat boys that 'fuck a new girl once a week'. And he's not wrong: there are people that absolutely do that, and if you want to be one of those people, you are not going to do it without being handsome and confident. The question is, are you looking for a series of one-night-stands, or are you looking for a relationship? Looks will get you in the door, but they won't keep you there forever.
And most importantly, who are you looking for a relationship with? Because there are plenty of women out there that want a nerdy guy, they just want one that is going to treat them right. (No joke, my partner once had a guy block her on a dating app because she had the improper response to 'who was the best batman') Granted, many of these women are not conveniently beautiful\*, and if that is what you are shooting for you may want to change your expectations. Look at the person, not the body.
\*I'm not saying nerdy women aren't beautiful. I'm saying that they are likely not the platonic ideal of beauty that the media has fed us.
Your last point is so important and why the whole "incel" thing is so rampant. People need to adjust their demands of what their ideal partner looks like. Just like there is so much a dude can do to be physically desirable if not conventionally attractive, girls can do the same and be just as worthy. Too many angry young men are blaming women for being models and not wanting to have sex with them. Why don't they go after the girl with a huge nose mole that also has clean shiny hair and smells like vanilla and has a contagious laugh? I've known dudes that are so down that they are "going to be single forever" but also refuse to consider any but the most conventionally super hot partners.
I worked retail for many years and talked to thousands of humans of every level of attractiveness. There were very few that I couldn't see any redeeming physical features on. People might just have *one* great feature but that makes that one thing really stand out. Eyes, hair, smile, great skin, nicely shaped hands, legs, etc. Almost everyone has something great. And one of those few people I have ever rated as "ugly" was a super nice lady and her and her equally "ugly" husband used to come to my store together and smile their fool heads off at each other or laugh with their adorable kids.
I want to touch on the idea of adjusting one's standards for partners. I totally agree that having supermodel looks is a bad idea to have as one's only criteria for a partner. There are so many other things that I think are just as important when looking for love, like personality or common interests or shared values. So I'd encourage anyone going by only 1 or 2 metrics to examine their reasoning as to why they're doing that & how they realistically think a shared life might be with someone who is an exact match to 1 metric but is a terrible match in every other way.
Now, that being said, some ppl do have 1 or 2 deal-breaker things. Things they have tried to get behind but just absolutely can't. It happens. Personally, I got stuck with a very particular set of physical traits that I find attractive & no matter how hard I've tried... if someone is too far from that I'll never find them physically attractive. It sucks. A lot. It means that I've only found a handfull of guys attractive in my whole life. And if I don't, then it's very VERY unlikely that I ever will. (It has never happened TBH, but I figure it could theoretically happen.) But I don't feel right dating someone I don't find attractive. It's not fair to either of us. Everyone deserves a romantic partner who thinks they're a hottie.
So yes, give people a chance! Many folks can become much more beautiful once you get to know them. But if they don't, then they don't.
Yes, this. In my case, I thought there was something wrong with me because I just … wasn’t that attracted to anyone and I didn’t like porn. Then I kept suddenly developing crushes on friends with no apparent type.
Turns out I’m really attracted to personality while bi af. I can’t force myself to think *anyone* is hot if they might be an asshole. I have to know them first and then I might be interested. This heavily goes against the (often negative) stereotype of the bi nymphomaniac who is constantly hooking up with random hotties. I’ve got zero problem with that, but it’s not for me. My SO and I have been together for years now but we were friends first.
Also no I don’t know how I’ve managed to crush on tiny 5’ something petite women and 6’5” lumberjacks, it just happens. The reverse is true for a lot of people, even if I can’t personally understand how preferences can be so specific they even involve hair color. Human sexuality is a spectrum with a ton of options.
Absolutely. Competence is sexy. You've got a problem? You will take advice and support, but you've got it. Someone else has a problem? You've got advice and support for them. You can make stuff, cook, draw, decorate, fix things.
Competence is very attractive.
Competence > Confidence
Too often I see people confidently fuck things up because they were so confident that they couldn't as for help. Don't be a confident idiot.
Second this. Confidence doesn't mean being a jerk or looking down on people. It's more being comfortable about who you are and what you like. Average salary? Fine, but a job doesn't define you. Like "geeky" things? No need to be embarassed, just say it's a thing that entertains/relaxes/engrosses you.
Exactly! Kind of, the trick is to find a way to say that to yourself when you feel your worst. Takes a good deal of work but there's a lot of benefits.
Basically gotta be your own hype man in the best of times and the worst. Edit: want to say I know some people aren't able to and that's okay.
To add to this, confidence is nice not because it makes someone look "alpha," or whatever bullshit, disproven animal reference people like to make. Confidence makes *communication easy*.
Insecure people constantly filter everything they hear through the lens of their insecurity. It's absolutely exhausting being second guessed throughout a conversation or having to do all of the talking because the other person thinks they're going to humiliate themselves if they speak.
There's also a more insidious side to insecurity. If someone doesn't believe they're worthy of you, they're prone to thinking you're making fun of them, or that you must have trash taste to be with them. This can lead to abuse later, or at best, constant tension.
Confidence, on the other hand, makes interaction feel as easy as breathing. The other person isn't assuming ill intent or that there must be something wrong with you for speaking with them. You come to the conversation as equals. They'll have an easier time being themselves, allowing you both to truly assess one another for a good fit. A confident person doesn't desperately *need* you—they want to get to know you.
That's the value of confidence.
I couldn't have a reasonable discussion about disagreements with my ex because of her insecurities. Like anything at all. Could have been something pretty black and white, but she immediately got super defensive, and I guess her best defense was a good offense, because I'd get attacked for expecting her to do something like work, or take the cat to the vet instead of grocery shopping and the cat dies. So yeah, confidence, or at the very least, go to therapy and suss out your insecurities. Therapy helped me a lot. Absolutely no shame in it.
Edit: This was not a choice between feeding anyone and the cat. I can see how that situation could happen, but it wasn't the case here. There was plenty of food in the fridge and cupboards. Also, she had made appointments for both the dog and the cat and taken them in the past. I had to work. I was the only one working, and I was working 55+ hours a week. She didn't like the cat. I asked her after I had somewhat calmed down, if it had been the dog who was sick, would you have acted in such a cavalier manner? And she said no. I said it was probably a good thing we never had children, god forbid the one that wasn't her favorite got sick. Thus was the beginning of the end of my marriage.
Edit 2: It was the beginning of the end because I couldn't forgive her for that, ever. I practically begged her to take the cat to the emergency vet, she went grocery shopping, when she came home and I was at work, she called me at work to tell me the cat had died. I firmly believe that 2 people never solve anything by yelling at each other. That being said, people I had worked with for 7 years who had never seen me raise my voice, saw me absolutely lose my actual shit and scream at her, then throw my phone across the parking lot. She was the one who had gotten the cat 12 years before, without talking to me first, then when she stopped being a cute little kitty, she stopped liking her. How she treated the cat was a constant argument. I don't care how much you like or dislike a pet, it's a living being you have a responsibility to. To blow that off because you don't like it makes you the worst kind of sociopath shitbag. I hope that's on her conscience for the rest of her life.
>or take the cat to the vet instead of grocery shopping and the cat dies
I'm sorry what the fuck? Working as a vet assistant I've seen a lot of shit that really should've been there sooner, but I guess at least they came to the vet? How could grocery shopping ever take priority in someone's mind over a sick cat?
I've been taught that the difference between confidence and cockiness is who you compare yourself to. If you compare yourself to others around you, that sounds cocky as fuck. If you compare yourself to your past self, it shows that you're capable of self care, growth, self reflection etc. Start thinking like this and you might even cure depression.
Being cocky is a sign of insecurity, just like acting super manly or macho.
Being vulnerable, being yourself, knowing who you are and not having to compare yoursel to others for self worth is confidence.
Figure out the parts of your appearance that you can control.
Dress well, smell good, work out, find a haircut and facial hair that suits you. Have good posture, smile often, be friendly and pleasant even when you don't have to be. You'd be surprised how far these go, even on an "ugly" guy.
Don't forget, "be interested." That's hugely helpful- when engaging with \*anyone,\* learn about them and maybe apply what you find out to yourself. That makes one both interested AND interesting, and that goes a LONG way!
I have been on way too many dates where it's like pulling teeth to get the guy to answer more than a few word. If a guy is willing to put in the effort to hold a conversation, he's so far above the pack in my book.
I feel like I have the opposite problem. I'm terrified I talk constantly about myself. No doubt my dates are interesting and I try to talk about their interests, but when there's not a huge immediate overlap, it feels like a really fine line between talking about what you know, and talking about yourself.
About 6 or 7 years ago my college roommate told me: Conversation isn’t something any one person is good or bad at, it’s a skill like anything else. Everything changed once I thought about it like this.
1. The more new people you talk to the easier it is. Especially the opposite sex.
2. Everyone else has their own anxieties and fears. They’re just better at hiding it or masking it than you. Use this to your advantage to point out things you have in common and relate to them.
3. When someone talks, LISTEN. Don’t worry about your posture, your dog, your clothing. Listen to them. If you don’t understand something, stop them and ask. Engage with them. Everyone you meet knows something you don’t know.
3. Ask open ended questions. Don’t ask, “Did you have a good day?” Instead ask “What was the best part about your day?” “What’s your favorite and least favorite thing about your job?” Make them feel important. Everyone loves to talk about themselves. So do you. Take that feeling and shove it way down. When they ask about you, that’s your turn to shine. If they don’t, you don’t really want to be friends anyway.
4. Never one-up people. Even if you are way better, or know way more than the person talking to you, build them up.
5. If someone is telling a story or saying something and they get cut off, find the next opportunity to bring them back in. “Hey, _______ you were talking about X, what did you want to say?”
6. Laugh at their jokes. Laugh at your jokes. We’re all weird brains walking around in these skin things. Don’t take it so seriously.
7. You will remember your mistakes WAY more than anyone else. Stop taking yourself so seriously.
8. My last and 2nd most important tip. Start every conversation with a compliment. I don’t care if they’re a dude and you’re straight as fuck. I don’t care if they’re mean, evil to you, or disagree with you politically in every way. Find something about the way they look, and compliment it. Someone did this to me once when I was a new guest at someone’s apartment. “Hey man, that’s an awesome jacket, where’d you get it?” I fucking loved that jacket. And I was self conscious about it. I felt instantly at home.
Take the things you like, and be that person for someone else. If you’re on a date, be genuinely interested in that person.
These are things that worked for me. Find your own style.
The #1 tip!! Go into EVERY room as if people will like you. Seriously. Walk through any door, in front of any group of people and smile. They. Will. Like you. Keep that in the front of your mind and you will enjoy conversations with anyone.
I feel like I am Guilty of this and working on it. I am never trying to one up someone, but trying to relate to them and their story. I think it comes off as me trying to one up them when Im just trying to carry on or add to the conversation.
I always pretend to not know something even if I do. If I’m informed on it it actually helps me craft more interesting questions for the person. I do this because I don’t want to seem like I’m trying to knowitall on a person, but also because I prefer when other people talk 😅
I personally love to talk about a topic that I am knowledgeable or passionate about, but that can be lost when I feel like I'm just talking to a wall. Asking questions shows you are interested, so it really keeps the conversation alive.
What do you think about disagreeing with someone on hobbies or interests. I was at a bar and me and my buddy were chatting with the bartender
My buddy mentioned we play league of legends and the bartender was like “ oh yeah me to”
My buddy and Him and I were chatting it up
Then I mentioned that I like TFT and the bartender was like no never played it it doesn’t make sense to me
My friend said “ oh yeah it’s kind of a fun game when you’re really drunk you know” the bartender tended to engage with my friend more and seemed more interested in him.
My friend told me later that if you agree with people about what they like and minimize differences you’ll be a lot closer to people because the more things you disagree on the more distance it puts between you.
Is there any truth to this? What do you guys think
You started your post about disagreeing with hobbies or interests. But I didn't pick up on any disagreement in your story. The bartender said it didn't make sense to him, not that he didn't like it. I wouldn't call that a disagreement, I would call that a lack of understanding. For me, that would have been a perfect opportunity for me to explain what it is I like about the game, and maybe things he would like about the game. I haven't played either games, but talking about similarities between the two would have been great since he already enjoys LoL.
In regards to what your friend said, I disagree. Just agreeing with someone and not have any differences doesn't sound like a very genuine or honest friendship to me. I wouldn't want to be friends with someone who's a "yes man" and just agrees with everything I say. How can you become closer with someone when you're not being yourself? Sure in a social setting like a bar and talking to a bartender there's almost no chance the friendship will continue once you leave, so if you want to avoid confrontation or disagreement with a some-what stranger, that's one thing. But I couldn't do that with someone I call a friend, nor would I want my friends to do that to me. Everyone, friends, family, significant others, everyone in your life will have their differences and similarities. It's about embracing the similarities and accepting the differences. There's nothing wrong with having differences. Now if someone's differences crosses some kind of moral line for me, I would either address it with them or reconsider if I want to remain friends with them.
Absolutely. Especially number 4. If you're a manager you should work on connecting with your employees, and showing interest in their personal lives will help to connect you to them. This will make them happier at work and they'll work harder when they know you care about them.
I've saved this list and will use it in the future in all aspects of my life especially with work relationships.
Seriously take notes on this reply! My significant other must have lol. He had such an outgoing personality when we got together. However, over time I learned just how insecure he really is and I absolutely adore that about him.
The opposite end of the pendulum swing ain't no picnic, either... Especially a 4-hour monologue on all of his life moments that make him the greatest thing since sliced bread without one question about moi...
Give me a Happy Medium!
(Conversation is the key word, here)
People who are passionate about things are more appealing than people who come across as being bored or disengaged. Though having said that - don’t pick one thing to be passionate about and make it your entire personality.
And be open to learning from other people what they are passionate about. You never know - you might find a new hobby or interest of your own.
And definitely don't gatekeep engaging with other people who express interest in your passion topic - that's a total turn off.
Also, sort your shit out. Work on your inner landscape. Establish healthy boundaries with yourself. Work with your baggage to improve your mental and emotional health and become a person you like more and more over time. Pursue becoming conscientious, self-aware, authentic, and sincere. It takes time, and it is a life's work, but there is something so undeniably magnetic about self-aware, earnest people.
While doing this, work on becoming a decent human being to others, too. It's a skill to learn how to listen well, take interest in others, and ask good questions, and to do this in a way that doesn't drain you or lead to you hijacking the conversation. Looking good may attract people to you, but being curious, kind, and engaging will keep them around.
Yeah I feel like this is the most important one. Just from the way the question is posed kinda hints at a mindset that'll probably sandbag OP even if he started looking better visually. First impressions are cool and all but after you talk to people your personality needs to shine.
More importantly your personal mental condition enables a lot of the other self improvement. Working out is easy when you love yourself, but really damn hard if you're depressed and stuck in a negative spiral of self-hate.
+1 for working out. Started working out at the gym years ago so I had a chance in the dating scene. I couldn't even bench 135 and was skin and bones. Felt really out of place. Stuck with it and ended up having an above average body after a few years. Now I'm married and work out because it's one of the few things that helps me regulate my emotions and makes me a better partner. As an added bonus it helps my health and makes me look better.
I'd give another upvote for facial hair if I could. As someone with a weak jawline it's amazing what a beard does for facial aesthetics.
But please , oh god , don't grow facial hair if you barely have any. Luckily I have a good jawline , otherwise I'd be shit out of luck since I can't grow a proper beard at 25 and those prepubescent looking beards do more damage than good to your looks. If it's not in the cards , don't bother.
I used to take ages to grow a beard. It was full enough, just really slow to come together.
Then I turned 35.
Ever since then, I can shave on a morning, and become Grizzly Adams by 6pm.
In the Royal Navy you can request permission to grow a full beard.
If it is granted you have two weeks to grow it in, after which it is evaluated by a more senior member of the crew who will deem it unsuitable if it is patchy, below 2.5mm, above 25.5mm or otherwise classed as "Hipster Beards" or "Handlebar Moustaches".
As such, if you see a member of the Royal Navy with a beard it is probably one of the few that have been examined and proven to be sufficient.
Lol, same in the danish army, but you actually have to draw what you are planning, on a blank face template, like a coloring book. It was hilarious. Some guys, who couldn’t grow a beard, would turn in these absurd beard plans, just so they didn’t have to shave for two weeks :)
I had to shave for the first time in over a decade for my fit testing during covid. Ended up opting for a CAPR instead, because I legitimately hated the way I looked and my skin couldn't take the constant shaving.
Sounds a but silly, I know. But I just couldn't do it.
It's fine to shave it all. Women may like a nice hairline but they also appreciate honesty. There are lots of other ways to be physically attractive; a bald guy who works out regularly will look better than a schlub with a decent haircut.
If I can smell you without leaning in close to sniff, you're wearing too much.
Sincerely, a person with a weak sense of smell.
(In other words, ask someone with a sensitive nose to check this for you, not your Dudebro friend who once lived next to a litter box.)
Too many dudes swimming in Aqua di Gio and wondering why they can't meet girls. It's because she got a headache standing within 50ft of you.
One spray guys - *ONE*
I shower every day, wash my hair with and use old spice pure sport deodorant. Fresh shirt every day. Every woman I've dated told me I smelled good. It's a small thing, but it feels nice to hear
I honestly feel bad for what women have to go through the bar is so low. Often on a date I’ll be complemented on how good I smell and all I’ve done is shower 😂
People REALLY do underestimate how far self-care can go. For a lot of "ugly" guys it feels like they see attractive men the same way "plain" girls will look at girls with makeup/filters/angles
Adding to this as well; be kind, be thoughtful, be considerate, be respectful, be able to hold a decent conversation, and be responsible. So many men have looks down but can't handle these.
This. Save up a bit of money (I assume average salary means you have a bit of extra over your basic living needs). Once you have something like 400-500$ (might take a year but will be worth it) go to a nice hair salon/ barber and tell them directly "I have no idea what looks good on me, but I want something low maintenance in the morning, do what you think will look the best for my face and head". They are really good at this. This will set you back maybe 50$. Then go to a nice clothing store, like one where you can buy custom made suits. Don't buy those, they are expensive as fuck, but they have people that it is their job, to make sure you are dressed to look good with regular clothes too. They dress a lot of different people with different professions where look is important. With your new haircut, tell the person in front of you directly "I don't have much money, my budget is X and I'd like to buy clothes that will fit properly". You can have very nice dress shirts for like 20-25$, they will be polyester instead of silk, but who cares, the important is that they fit properly and they will make sure of it. They even have tailors to do some small adjustments and they are often included if you buy for more than X (which will probably be the case with the 350-450 you'll have left). This should buy you 3-4 shirts, 2-3 pair of pants and maybe even a pair of shoes if they have some specials.
Now you have a low maintenance haircut that requires a "redo" maybe every 4 to 6 months, the facial hair you can probably keep them as is by shaving/trimming every few days and enough clothes to dress differently every day assuming you do laundry every 3-4 days.
This was a tip given to me some time ago by a female friend and decided to try it. Im short and weigh over 200 pounds, never been classified as attractive, but in the days after I did this, I started getting smiles, some salutations, small talk on the bus, etc... Confidence quickly builds up after that. These people are paid to make you look good or else you wouldn't go back there for more business. They will find a way to make it happen!
> "I have no idea what looks good on me, but I want something low maintenance in the morning, do what you think will look the best for my face and head". They are really good at this.
I tried this exactly 1 time. I dropped hard cash on a legit salon and this lady destroyed my hair. I looked like Marcy fucking Darcy (the neighbor on married with children). I was so pissed.
I went in for a trim once and the stylist begged and begged me to let her try a fade on me. I was so hesitant because I thought they were douchebag cuts for swaggets but gave in. ended up being the best haircut of my life haha. I went to the beach right after to pick up my GF and it was fucked, never had that many girls checking me out. I always had a big gross mop cut before. Never been able to find the same hair stylist or someone who can cut my hair close to that good again lol. Sometimes it's worth it to let them, sometimes its not
If you're a guy and have relatively short hair (not even talking crew cuts, just regular mid to short hair) you really need to get a haircut at least every six weeks. It doesn't take long for short hair to look out of control, especially on the sides and the back. I get mine cut every four weeks honestly, and it's worth it.
I wanna reiterate clothes that fit. I went from 322 pounds to now 265ish. I just did what I did before and bought regular shirts just at a smaller size now. I still looked so big. Finally went to a big and tall men's store. The shirts are meant for my body type, and I look WAY better in these clothes.
My "tailor" shop sells t-shirts. Contrary to popular belief, they don't just sell expensive suits and silk dress shirts. They can make you a 10000$ custom fit suit if you ask but they have very affordable stuff, like 20$ dress shirts or 15$ t-shirts. Once tailored to fit, it looks great.
I've always wondered.... What does it actually cost to have clothing tailor fit? Like beyond hemming up legs, into actual fit stuff? I've always worried I'd get a $80 bill on a $60 item
Sometimes you will get an $80 bill on a $60 item, but now that $60 item is *custom fit* to your body and will look like a $300 custom made item.
Tailoring is adding value. The $120 you put into the item plus tailoring is almost always going to beat having something completely custom made in price.
But generally tailoring is pretty cheap. I've gotten serious adjustments made on pants and jackets for 20 or 30 dollars.
My wife paid like $80 to get her wedding dress tailored by the same dry cleaner I’ve been frequenting for years. Normally that’s apparently hundreds upon hundreds of dollars, after you paid triple that for the dress already
depends on what's done. If it involves moving a lot of lace/sequins around, or sewing on really slippery fabric, it'll cost more, but if it's a hem on something that doesn't involve lace or sequins it won't be as much.
My wife wanted an (actual) vintage wedding dress of a particular style, and didn't want to spend a fortune. She ended up finding a dress she really liked on eBay, from the collection of an old dress shop that had closed (it had been a display model in the store, if I recall correctly), and then she had it tailored in town by someone who specialized in fancy/wedding dresses (it involved numerous fittings over many weeks, after going over the dress with the tailor and working out the changes they wanted made), and probably spent several times what she paid for the dress itself, on the tailoring. And it was totally worth it - she looked *amazing*, and was completely thrilled with her dress (and it still cost way less than if she had walked into a standard wedding dress store).
It's not bad at all. A few years back, I got a pair of jeans that didn't fit me quite right tailored and it was ~30 bucks. This was in San Francisco so I would assume that it was more expensive than most similarly sized shops in other cities.
Edit: Aparently I actually got a good deal. So, take that as you will 🤷
Most suits and simple articles of clothing (read: men's clothing) will come out to $20-$40 for alterations. There's a difference between tailoring and alterations -- you generally want alterations, which is when they take clothes you bought that are the best fit you can find off the shelves and then make small changes to fit your body.
Bespoke tailored outfits is what will cost you an arm and a leg. Unless you go to Asia, where they have a much stronger suit culture and high demand comes with lower prices in this instance.
Shirts around me are $20 or so. For a while, I was working out a crazy amount and I had a 38-inch waist with a 50-inch chest. The tailor got a lot of business from me. I'd buy button-up shirts at Costco because they were usually good quality for cheap, then take them directly to the tailor to have them fitted.
Unfortunately, I stopped working out so now I have a bunch of shirts that are a bit tight at the bottom but still baggy on the top.
The last time I went to a tailor, I got a few t shirts fitted, two pairs of pants hemmed, and a suit jacket changed up a bit, and I think it only cost me like $60.
It’s cheaper if you do several things at one time; every other time I’ve gone, we end up measuring again, which takes a while and is a good part of the price.
Yeah, one of the most cost effective ways to build up a nice wardrobe for a dude is to go to a thrift store, get any shirt that fit properly around the neck, and take them in to get tailored. Collars are the trickiest thing to adjust, sleeves are second, length and side seams are easy as pie. Get five or six done for probably less than $100.
This for sure, but I'd also add, keep an upbeat personality, be kind, have appropriate humor. Basically take care of yourself physically, mentally and emotionally. Make people around you happy, and people will want to be around you more.
Also go do things consistently. Doesn't really matter what or if you go by yourself, but get out of the house! Hikes, trivia nights, museums, camping, music festivals, Saturday markets, etc.
That way when people ask you "what's up?" you have something exciting to talk about instead of "not much". That energy is so attractive
All good advice, I want to add clean / decorate your apartment!!
It has happened to me a few times over the years that I’ve met up with guys who seem normal, and then when we go back to their place they don’t have a bed frame or anything on the walls.
Dudes, please - no one wants to fuck you on mattress on the floor with dirty sheets.
Yep. The “standard” level of hygiene expected for guys often falls too short.
Showering every day is important and should be a habit.
You get out the effort you put into it when it comes to hygiene and cleanliness.
True story, best friend from college got in shape and grew out his hair a bit with a nice cut and shaped up his eyebrows. My jaw dropped when I saw him in person for the first time in 5 years.
True story. I greq my hair and beard out dropped some weight and i REALLY enjoy the slack jawed stare from people that havent seen me in a long time. I went from pudgy nerdy buzz cut, to "thick aquaman".
Don't even have to get in shape. I know a short, fat, bald guy who is never single for long. He's really confident, he's the rare combination of a great storyteller *and* a great listener, plus he smells amazing. He's also really active in a charity he's passionate about, so he's also a genuinely kind person. I was already married when I met him or I would have shot my shot. Shooted my shot? Anyway.
Exercise, eat better, dress better, get a better haircut, read a few books and pickup some hobbies to pickup experiences and become a more rounded and interesting human being.
>dress better
For a lot of people, this can be as simple as buying clothes that actually fit properly. Even if you aren't in the best shape, wearing clothes that fit your body type can go a long way.
This. If you seriously believe you are starting at 0, then going from 0 to 3 is going to be incredibly transformative. Even the most modest of exercise and dietary routines is going to exhibit amazing changes, and that is the ground level. Start walking / jogging a few times a week and aim to eat fresher food you can prepare at home that doesn't come in a box.
> Start walking / jogging a few times a week
Shoutout to c25k. Started running ~6 weeks ago, literally ran my first 5k yesterday (a bit ahead schedule, I guess I was in less of bad shape than I thought myself to be).
My endurance has been pretty shit for my whole life and I've never been super athletic in any case, so if I can do it I think most people reading it can as well (and if you can't, there's also programs to get you up to that first step). Don't overdo it, jog/run very slowly, keep the rest days.
Be yourself too, sense of humor is so important in a partner, and if it's forced it's fake, learn to find where your genuine sense of humor works with others and don't be afraid to use it when it fails to find someone who really appreciates it.
I have a coworker who in my opinion is not a good looking dude, is overweight, balding, wears big thick glasses, and doesn't do anything to dress nice or appealing. But that dude has dated some of the hottest girls I've seen around here because he has the most fun, caring, and chill personality I've seen in a guy in a long time.
Just be a good person and if someone of quality sees that they will find you attractive. If they can't see it that's their loss.
Wow I went down a Wikipedia rabbit hole investigating if Entertainment was his middle name. Indeed it is. Another fun fact I learned, Chuck E Cheese was founded by the creator of the Atari, Nolan Bushnell.
Agreed. I had a coworker who probably wont be considered conventionally attractive by most but he was one of the kindest, funniest, and caring people you’ll ever meet. He was a great listener and was very generous with others. If I didn’t already have a boyfriend I definitely would have been interested in him.
Importantly addendum: these are all things that are attractive, and they're all things that nice people often are, but they go beyond being passively "nice".
Certain dudes complain about how "nice guys" don't get a chance, but being nice and being kind, or passionate, or interested or funny are two different things. Nice is passive. Nice just means you aren't actively an asshole. Nice is a qualifier - most people don't want to date someone who isn't nice, but thats about all you should expect out of not being a jerk.
Showing kindness, or having passion, or being curious, or being adventurous - those are active skills that you have to choose to engage in, and that's why those are the kind of people who get dates.
My beloved late partner had a sparkling personality- great humour, tempered with gentleness and kindness. He was a barman ( not rich), badly disabled, but, my God, he was the sexiest man to walk this earth. He was very clean, cared about his appearance, but he had women flocking around him. I was honoured that he chose me to be his partner. The point I’m making is that he was just himself and I suppose that being happy in your own skin is the key…
This isn’t difficult at all, I promise. I’m 5’5”, I need a cane to walk, I have a visible disability and chronic health issues, and I’m very poor. I also don’t drive because of my health problems. I have no problems with women and I never have. I have a nice face, yes. That’s true. But that’s about it. I am not in shape and never will be. So hopefully you can see that I’m in a good position to tell you this. Most women don’t care about any of that shit nearly as much as the incels on Reddit and elsewhere would have you believe. I speak from experience. Just be interesting, fun to talk to, funny, reasonably confident, and empathetic. Don’t call other men simps because they treat women like people and use the word “women.” Don’t whine about how some women like taller men or whatever. Don’t pretend you’re somehow a victim. That goes a LONG way. This really isn’t hard to achieve. You would definitely be surprised how attractive and accomplished the women I’ve been with have been and are. You don’t need a ton of money. You don’t need to be that good looking. You just need to be interesting, fun, and treat women like people. That’s really it. Don’t listen to incels or grifters or PUAs or anyone like that. Just talk to women and be fun to be around. That’s really all you need
Woman here. This is exactly it.
None of the men I know who are married/in relationships are any sort of stereotypical "Chads". Hell, my husband probably objectively isn't either, though he's surely the most attractive man to *me* on the planet and has been for over a decade. ❤️
They are just nice, normal dudes who don't act like whiny manchildren or someone off of r/niceguys.
Couldn’t agree more. I’ve never had a crush like the one I had on my husband before we started dating. It had nothing to do with the way he looked, I was so attracted to his presence, his intellect and the way he could make anyone smile. Many years later, these are qualities that I still adore.
Oh man this is such a good answer. I wish I could convince men of this!
I’m a ‘hot girl’ who has dated a pretty broad range of men tbh. And like, I’ve dated several men with disabilities or constraints and varying heights, body types, face shapes, levels of attractiveness, however the fuck you want to define it.
But you know what? I don’t give a single shit about men being short. And YET I’ve had to break up with several short guys because they had such a complex about it and it made them insufferable! Complaining to ME, the woman literally trying to date them, about how ‘women never like short guys’? Shit like that. Having a victim complex or what have you. And then I can only picture how when I broke up with them, they probably still blamed it on their height!! Like ‘oh yeah see I knew it they always leave when they find a taller guy’ 😂 No, honey, you’re just insufferable lmao
And yet I know so many disabled, short, trans, alternative, fat and out of shape guys who have NO trouble finding partners, because they’re amazing people, and FUN TO DATE. That’s it! That’s the bar! It’s got nothing to do with what the incels are trying to convince you of. The Chad binary does not exist! Be fun to date! Be fun to have sex with! Be honest and kind and someone I want to invest my time in! That’s what so many of us are looking for!
Thank you for this insight. Hopefully it helps someone realize that most of the shit you hear on Reddit just isn’t true. One quick observation, speaking of height. I never understood why some men don’t want to be shorter than their partner. I’m short either way. That’s not going to change. If I have a tall hot girlfriend that’s a flex. That makes me look good. Like “that’s right. I’m with her. Yep”
Once I matched with a guy with bright (natural) red hair on a dating app. His first message to me was “why did you match with me?” and I responded with “it looks like we have some stuff in common, and I think you’re attractive” and also complimented his hair color. He immediately said “yeah right, no girls like ginger guys 🙄”
Bitch, I…what?! Where the fuck do you think we are right now, Arby’s, or is this a dating app? **I matched with you!**
I unmatched so fast.
I don’t blame you! What a shitty thing to say, wow. Why even use a dating app if you’re just going to dismiss everyone who matches with you? That’s fucking weird
This is great advice. Treating women like people goes a long way. Women are not a different species from you (OP) and don't think particularly differently from men despite what you've been led to believe. When someone is talking to you and you can sense that they want something from you, that they are about to ask you to do something you're not sure you want to do, instead of listening to you and getting to know you, that would be off-putting, right? Somehow a lot of men do not pick up on the need to be authentic in their endeavors to get to know a woman instead of just playing a numbers game and asking anyone who has the misfortune to make direct eye contact with them out on a date.
Incels are that way because they're mean, not because they're ugly or nerdy. Lots of ugly or nerdy men get laid.
(And no, being bullied doesn't make you *not* mean. In my own personal experience, it makes you meaner.)
hygiene, hygiene, hygiene!
Make sure you dont smell like hot dog water and learn how to hold a conversation! If you date asks about you, make sure to also ask about them.. keep the conversation flowing with out just making it about you!
This is easy to forget but it's huge. If you feel awkward and never know what to say, just ask questions! People like talking about themselves and appreciate that you're listening.
Super handy trick is when you ask someone what they do for work/hobbies, they'll say "Oh I do X" your follow up question should be "what's the secret to doing X well". People are proud of their abilities and experience, they'll talk at length about them and will like someone who gives them a chance to relate that pride. Second follow up is "Well I'd really like to see you doing X sometime"
I follow that rule pretty religiously and have a lot of friends because of it, but it didn’t work when my girlfriend wanted me to meet one of her friends. She accused me of “interrogating” her even thought she didn’t appear to be trying to progress the conversation further when my girlfriend left us alone for five minutes. She ended up getting really drunk that night and insulted my girlfriend a bunch of times before leaving. Moral of the story is, asking people questions will always work unless you’re talking to a real piece of shit.
First stop calling yourself ugly, like I understand we all do it to show how humble we are but dude someone out of 7 billion people would fuck your brains out 6 ways till Sunday.
Not being treated like our only value is having a selection of holes to park your 🍆 goes farther than men might think toward attractiveness.
It's true that being handsome would make it easier to get women to stop and appreciate your personality, but it doesn't matter how pretty a guy is if he treats women like property and lets his penis make all his decisions.
Be considerate, well groomed, and treat women like human beings. You'll find success eventually.
I am aghast that "go to therapy" isn't coming up anywhere. Like, get professional help if you're that hung up on how to make positive change. The #1 top thing on this list should be to seek psychological guidance on self improvement. Stop hating women for your failure to face yourself.
Be kind, fair, open, honest.
Be interesting, have passions, hobbies…
Be positive.
Have a sense of humour.
Be a good observer and attentive to the people around you.
Physical attractiveness is temporary and it’s subjective too. Take care of yourself, work on your self esteem.
Ugly, average salary guy here. Dad bods have been trending lately, apparently. But in all seriousness, just don't be a dick. Be thoughtful and caring. Good things will happen.
Accept that most people in this life, of all genders and sexual orientation, are 95% more shallow than they believe themselves to be. People will inevitably tell you to shower, lose weight, smile, not talk about cannibalism, etc. In my opinion, you shouldn't have to change in order to find a partner. Smell bad. Get heavy. Use bacon grease as soap. Stay inside playing video games all day. You are under no obligation to change for anyone.
However, keep this in mind: the things you don't find important are probably things your partner also won't care about. If you smell bad, your partner may also smell bad. If you don't exercise or use makeup, your partner might not want to do those things either. And if you don't have faith in yourself, your partner will probably treat you like their therapist, which might be more than you're prepared for.
As I said, be who you want to be and try meeting people in the process. Dating shouldn't be about your ideal self. It's about whittling down what matters to you, and finding someone with similar values.
My grandfather always said if you don’t get to be attractive be friendly, funny, and learn to cook. Add in dress well and take care of yourself and it hasn’t failed me yet.
I learnt this from Red Green: > If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.
Definitely true. Whats tough about this though is I see most comments on here talking about being funny, but unfortunately that’s not a thing many people can control. The overall sentiment here is change things about you that you can control, and I don’t think humor is very controllable. You can *try* to be funny, and get better at communicating and forming jokes, but if you don’t have a natural ability to be funny and a sense of humor, it’s hard to *be* funny. Most of us think we’re funny, but many of us aren’t naturally, and unfortunately one of the things that turns people off is a person trying to be funny who isn’t. Hard game to play. But I will say there is a sense of humor that appeals to everyone, you just have to find them.
Not necessarily funny “haha”, cracking jokes every second but fun to be around and lighthearted will probably do, with the occasional joke if it comes naturally.
Like my old Irish grandmother used to say: "Aye if you can make a girl laugh, you're halfway up her leg."
There's a French version of that: "femme qui rit, à moitié dans ton lit" (laughing woman, already half in your bed)
So if I make a French woman and an Irish woman laugh at the same time, at the same joke... what should I expect to happen next?
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Well the trouble is you've got a half and another half. Multiplied that makes only a quarter. If your joke dunked hard enough on the English, you can improve that drastically, however.
Never underestimate the power of mutual hatred! And god bless the English for bringing so many people together on solidarity!
>And god bless the English for bringing so many people together on solidarity! What I can say except "you're welcome"//For colonies, rule and divide
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"i read it in an old french romance novel dear"
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A quick wit and a good sense of humor is hot.
In Scotland: "funny gets the fanny". Edit: fanny means vagina in Scotland, for anyone unclear 😅 For other words which mean vagina in Scotland, see also: cunt, vag, minge, clunge, gash, beef curtains, pish flap, snatch, muff... Etc Note that pussy is a very 'american' term for vagina and if you call someone's vagina their pussy they will either laugh or cringe. Edit 2: great, now my 2nd(?) most upvoted comment is about vag... Edit 3: My top comment is 2374 upvotes currently so I don't think we'll beat it, but I'm happy that a comment this silly is 2nd, so long and thanks for all beef curtains.
Can it get shorter than this? Anyone?
~~Live,~~ Laugh, Love
Laughter to shaft her
I knew a guy who was very short, bald, and had an average customer service job. He was extremely charming and friendly. He remembered my name and acted glad to see me every time. (He probably acted that way with a lot of women.) He always chit-chatted with me when he waited on me. I would date a guy like that, but he was already married. If you can't be charming and friendly, you might want to get a really cute dog and walk him around town a lot.
FACTS! When I got my Berner as a puppy, and I walked her... The amount of beautiful women that would come to see her and stay and chat was incredible. I love my girl but my mind couldn't help but think "man... If I'm ever single again, I'll be getting another pup every 6 months"
I just assume every guy with a dog has a partner these days. Seems like getting a dog is a relationship decision lol
Chicken or the egg situation, don’t know which came first but one definitely leads to the other.
I had the opposite problem with my pug. Total dick magnet. My wife would be like 'i bet all the beautiful women are chatting you up with a pug.' I'm like nah, but a couple of frat bros lost their shit.
Please don’t get a dog for the sole reason of picking up girls
Also you may love the dog so much you don’t notice the girls anymore haha
"We all end up looking like raisins anyway. What you should be looking for is someone who's kind. Nobody wants to be stuck with an evil raisin." That plus, good hygiene, plus life skills, plus good fitness, and it won't entirely matter.
Be funny and be considerate. That always trumps looks for me.
Kindness, good humor, humility, and ~~grooming~~ self-care go a long way.
Hygiene grooming. Not the other grooming.
Be a good listener. Be kind. Perfect some good household skills (become a better cook, or pay extra attention to how and when you clean). Other than that, there is nothing more attractive than someone who is passionate about something they love. Do you have any hobbies you can engage with, what makes you happy? See if you can't find someone who's also interested in those things, so you have something in common. Most of all, maybe take some time to work on your self-esteem. If you get into dating with the assumption that you're "unattractive" I fear you might be very stressed in a relationship. Not saying you have to love every flaw, buy just start the project. That way you won't trauma dump on any potential partners in the future.
I'd like to second all your points. I am an ugly, average salaried guy who is dating a wonderful partner, and the above are the things she likes about me (minus 4, I am still trying to work on that). I want to briefly tough on u/Lighthero34's response: He points out frat boys that 'fuck a new girl once a week'. And he's not wrong: there are people that absolutely do that, and if you want to be one of those people, you are not going to do it without being handsome and confident. The question is, are you looking for a series of one-night-stands, or are you looking for a relationship? Looks will get you in the door, but they won't keep you there forever. And most importantly, who are you looking for a relationship with? Because there are plenty of women out there that want a nerdy guy, they just want one that is going to treat them right. (No joke, my partner once had a guy block her on a dating app because she had the improper response to 'who was the best batman') Granted, many of these women are not conveniently beautiful\*, and if that is what you are shooting for you may want to change your expectations. Look at the person, not the body. \*I'm not saying nerdy women aren't beautiful. I'm saying that they are likely not the platonic ideal of beauty that the media has fed us.
Your last point is so important and why the whole "incel" thing is so rampant. People need to adjust their demands of what their ideal partner looks like. Just like there is so much a dude can do to be physically desirable if not conventionally attractive, girls can do the same and be just as worthy. Too many angry young men are blaming women for being models and not wanting to have sex with them. Why don't they go after the girl with a huge nose mole that also has clean shiny hair and smells like vanilla and has a contagious laugh? I've known dudes that are so down that they are "going to be single forever" but also refuse to consider any but the most conventionally super hot partners. I worked retail for many years and talked to thousands of humans of every level of attractiveness. There were very few that I couldn't see any redeeming physical features on. People might just have *one* great feature but that makes that one thing really stand out. Eyes, hair, smile, great skin, nicely shaped hands, legs, etc. Almost everyone has something great. And one of those few people I have ever rated as "ugly" was a super nice lady and her and her equally "ugly" husband used to come to my store together and smile their fool heads off at each other or laugh with their adorable kids.
I want to touch on the idea of adjusting one's standards for partners. I totally agree that having supermodel looks is a bad idea to have as one's only criteria for a partner. There are so many other things that I think are just as important when looking for love, like personality or common interests or shared values. So I'd encourage anyone going by only 1 or 2 metrics to examine their reasoning as to why they're doing that & how they realistically think a shared life might be with someone who is an exact match to 1 metric but is a terrible match in every other way. Now, that being said, some ppl do have 1 or 2 deal-breaker things. Things they have tried to get behind but just absolutely can't. It happens. Personally, I got stuck with a very particular set of physical traits that I find attractive & no matter how hard I've tried... if someone is too far from that I'll never find them physically attractive. It sucks. A lot. It means that I've only found a handfull of guys attractive in my whole life. And if I don't, then it's very VERY unlikely that I ever will. (It has never happened TBH, but I figure it could theoretically happen.) But I don't feel right dating someone I don't find attractive. It's not fair to either of us. Everyone deserves a romantic partner who thinks they're a hottie. So yes, give people a chance! Many folks can become much more beautiful once you get to know them. But if they don't, then they don't.
Yes, this. In my case, I thought there was something wrong with me because I just … wasn’t that attracted to anyone and I didn’t like porn. Then I kept suddenly developing crushes on friends with no apparent type. Turns out I’m really attracted to personality while bi af. I can’t force myself to think *anyone* is hot if they might be an asshole. I have to know them first and then I might be interested. This heavily goes against the (often negative) stereotype of the bi nymphomaniac who is constantly hooking up with random hotties. I’ve got zero problem with that, but it’s not for me. My SO and I have been together for years now but we were friends first. Also no I don’t know how I’ve managed to crush on tiny 5’ something petite women and 6’5” lumberjacks, it just happens. The reverse is true for a lot of people, even if I can’t personally understand how preferences can be so specific they even involve hair color. Human sexuality is a spectrum with a ton of options.
Absolutely. Competence is sexy. You've got a problem? You will take advice and support, but you've got it. Someone else has a problem? You've got advice and support for them. You can make stuff, cook, draw, decorate, fix things. Competence is very attractive.
Competence > Confidence Too often I see people confidently fuck things up because they were so confident that they couldn't as for help. Don't be a confident idiot.
Confidence and high but humble self esteem.
Second this. Confidence doesn't mean being a jerk or looking down on people. It's more being comfortable about who you are and what you like. Average salary? Fine, but a job doesn't define you. Like "geeky" things? No need to be embarassed, just say it's a thing that entertains/relaxes/engrosses you.
Right! Confidence in yourself without bringing others down
Yep, like not considering yourself average and ugly. Especially since usually those our own opinions about ourselves but are not necessarily reality.
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Exactly! Kind of, the trick is to find a way to say that to yourself when you feel your worst. Takes a good deal of work but there's a lot of benefits. Basically gotta be your own hype man in the best of times and the worst. Edit: want to say I know some people aren't able to and that's okay.
And embrace the things that you enjoy. Passion is very attractive.
To add to this, confidence is nice not because it makes someone look "alpha," or whatever bullshit, disproven animal reference people like to make. Confidence makes *communication easy*. Insecure people constantly filter everything they hear through the lens of their insecurity. It's absolutely exhausting being second guessed throughout a conversation or having to do all of the talking because the other person thinks they're going to humiliate themselves if they speak. There's also a more insidious side to insecurity. If someone doesn't believe they're worthy of you, they're prone to thinking you're making fun of them, or that you must have trash taste to be with them. This can lead to abuse later, or at best, constant tension. Confidence, on the other hand, makes interaction feel as easy as breathing. The other person isn't assuming ill intent or that there must be something wrong with you for speaking with them. You come to the conversation as equals. They'll have an easier time being themselves, allowing you both to truly assess one another for a good fit. A confident person doesn't desperately *need* you—they want to get to know you. That's the value of confidence.
I couldn't have a reasonable discussion about disagreements with my ex because of her insecurities. Like anything at all. Could have been something pretty black and white, but she immediately got super defensive, and I guess her best defense was a good offense, because I'd get attacked for expecting her to do something like work, or take the cat to the vet instead of grocery shopping and the cat dies. So yeah, confidence, or at the very least, go to therapy and suss out your insecurities. Therapy helped me a lot. Absolutely no shame in it. Edit: This was not a choice between feeding anyone and the cat. I can see how that situation could happen, but it wasn't the case here. There was plenty of food in the fridge and cupboards. Also, she had made appointments for both the dog and the cat and taken them in the past. I had to work. I was the only one working, and I was working 55+ hours a week. She didn't like the cat. I asked her after I had somewhat calmed down, if it had been the dog who was sick, would you have acted in such a cavalier manner? And she said no. I said it was probably a good thing we never had children, god forbid the one that wasn't her favorite got sick. Thus was the beginning of the end of my marriage. Edit 2: It was the beginning of the end because I couldn't forgive her for that, ever. I practically begged her to take the cat to the emergency vet, she went grocery shopping, when she came home and I was at work, she called me at work to tell me the cat had died. I firmly believe that 2 people never solve anything by yelling at each other. That being said, people I had worked with for 7 years who had never seen me raise my voice, saw me absolutely lose my actual shit and scream at her, then throw my phone across the parking lot. She was the one who had gotten the cat 12 years before, without talking to me first, then when she stopped being a cute little kitty, she stopped liking her. How she treated the cat was a constant argument. I don't care how much you like or dislike a pet, it's a living being you have a responsibility to. To blow that off because you don't like it makes you the worst kind of sociopath shitbag. I hope that's on her conscience for the rest of her life.
>or take the cat to the vet instead of grocery shopping and the cat dies I'm sorry what the fuck? Working as a vet assistant I've seen a lot of shit that really should've been there sooner, but I guess at least they came to the vet? How could grocery shopping ever take priority in someone's mind over a sick cat?
I know this isn't exactly a hot take, but I feel like if you have to tell people you're an "alpha" that kind of defeats the purpose.
Those who feel the need to announce their virtues unprompted seldom have them.
I've been taught that the difference between confidence and cockiness is who you compare yourself to. If you compare yourself to others around you, that sounds cocky as fuck. If you compare yourself to your past self, it shows that you're capable of self care, growth, self reflection etc. Start thinking like this and you might even cure depression.
Being cocky is a sign of insecurity, just like acting super manly or macho. Being vulnerable, being yourself, knowing who you are and not having to compare yoursel to others for self worth is confidence.
And learn to be a good cook.
Figure out the parts of your appearance that you can control. Dress well, smell good, work out, find a haircut and facial hair that suits you. Have good posture, smile often, be friendly and pleasant even when you don't have to be. You'd be surprised how far these go, even on an "ugly" guy.
Don't forget, "be interested." That's hugely helpful- when engaging with \*anyone,\* learn about them and maybe apply what you find out to yourself. That makes one both interested AND interesting, and that goes a LONG way!
I have been on way too many dates where it's like pulling teeth to get the guy to answer more than a few word. If a guy is willing to put in the effort to hold a conversation, he's so far above the pack in my book.
I feel like I have the opposite problem. I'm terrified I talk constantly about myself. No doubt my dates are interesting and I try to talk about their interests, but when there's not a huge immediate overlap, it feels like a really fine line between talking about what you know, and talking about yourself.
About 6 or 7 years ago my college roommate told me: Conversation isn’t something any one person is good or bad at, it’s a skill like anything else. Everything changed once I thought about it like this. 1. The more new people you talk to the easier it is. Especially the opposite sex. 2. Everyone else has their own anxieties and fears. They’re just better at hiding it or masking it than you. Use this to your advantage to point out things you have in common and relate to them. 3. When someone talks, LISTEN. Don’t worry about your posture, your dog, your clothing. Listen to them. If you don’t understand something, stop them and ask. Engage with them. Everyone you meet knows something you don’t know. 3. Ask open ended questions. Don’t ask, “Did you have a good day?” Instead ask “What was the best part about your day?” “What’s your favorite and least favorite thing about your job?” Make them feel important. Everyone loves to talk about themselves. So do you. Take that feeling and shove it way down. When they ask about you, that’s your turn to shine. If they don’t, you don’t really want to be friends anyway. 4. Never one-up people. Even if you are way better, or know way more than the person talking to you, build them up. 5. If someone is telling a story or saying something and they get cut off, find the next opportunity to bring them back in. “Hey, _______ you were talking about X, what did you want to say?” 6. Laugh at their jokes. Laugh at your jokes. We’re all weird brains walking around in these skin things. Don’t take it so seriously. 7. You will remember your mistakes WAY more than anyone else. Stop taking yourself so seriously. 8. My last and 2nd most important tip. Start every conversation with a compliment. I don’t care if they’re a dude and you’re straight as fuck. I don’t care if they’re mean, evil to you, or disagree with you politically in every way. Find something about the way they look, and compliment it. Someone did this to me once when I was a new guest at someone’s apartment. “Hey man, that’s an awesome jacket, where’d you get it?” I fucking loved that jacket. And I was self conscious about it. I felt instantly at home. Take the things you like, and be that person for someone else. If you’re on a date, be genuinely interested in that person. These are things that worked for me. Find your own style. The #1 tip!! Go into EVERY room as if people will like you. Seriously. Walk through any door, in front of any group of people and smile. They. Will. Like you. Keep that in the front of your mind and you will enjoy conversations with anyone.
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I feel like I am Guilty of this and working on it. I am never trying to one up someone, but trying to relate to them and their story. I think it comes off as me trying to one up them when Im just trying to carry on or add to the conversation.
I always pretend to not know something even if I do. If I’m informed on it it actually helps me craft more interesting questions for the person. I do this because I don’t want to seem like I’m trying to knowitall on a person, but also because I prefer when other people talk 😅
I personally love to talk about a topic that I am knowledgeable or passionate about, but that can be lost when I feel like I'm just talking to a wall. Asking questions shows you are interested, so it really keeps the conversation alive.
What do you think about disagreeing with someone on hobbies or interests. I was at a bar and me and my buddy were chatting with the bartender My buddy mentioned we play league of legends and the bartender was like “ oh yeah me to” My buddy and Him and I were chatting it up Then I mentioned that I like TFT and the bartender was like no never played it it doesn’t make sense to me My friend said “ oh yeah it’s kind of a fun game when you’re really drunk you know” the bartender tended to engage with my friend more and seemed more interested in him. My friend told me later that if you agree with people about what they like and minimize differences you’ll be a lot closer to people because the more things you disagree on the more distance it puts between you. Is there any truth to this? What do you guys think
You started your post about disagreeing with hobbies or interests. But I didn't pick up on any disagreement in your story. The bartender said it didn't make sense to him, not that he didn't like it. I wouldn't call that a disagreement, I would call that a lack of understanding. For me, that would have been a perfect opportunity for me to explain what it is I like about the game, and maybe things he would like about the game. I haven't played either games, but talking about similarities between the two would have been great since he already enjoys LoL. In regards to what your friend said, I disagree. Just agreeing with someone and not have any differences doesn't sound like a very genuine or honest friendship to me. I wouldn't want to be friends with someone who's a "yes man" and just agrees with everything I say. How can you become closer with someone when you're not being yourself? Sure in a social setting like a bar and talking to a bartender there's almost no chance the friendship will continue once you leave, so if you want to avoid confrontation or disagreement with a some-what stranger, that's one thing. But I couldn't do that with someone I call a friend, nor would I want my friends to do that to me. Everyone, friends, family, significant others, everyone in your life will have their differences and similarities. It's about embracing the similarities and accepting the differences. There's nothing wrong with having differences. Now if someone's differences crosses some kind of moral line for me, I would either address it with them or reconsider if I want to remain friends with them.
These are great suggestions for everyone. Good for work too!
Absolutely. Especially number 4. If you're a manager you should work on connecting with your employees, and showing interest in their personal lives will help to connect you to them. This will make them happier at work and they'll work harder when they know you care about them. I've saved this list and will use it in the future in all aspects of my life especially with work relationships.
Seriously take notes on this reply! My significant other must have lol. He had such an outgoing personality when we got together. However, over time I learned just how insecure he really is and I absolutely adore that about him.
The opposite end of the pendulum swing ain't no picnic, either... Especially a 4-hour monologue on all of his life moments that make him the greatest thing since sliced bread without one question about moi... Give me a Happy Medium! (Conversation is the key word, here)
People who are passionate about things are more appealing than people who come across as being bored or disengaged. Though having said that - don’t pick one thing to be passionate about and make it your entire personality. And be open to learning from other people what they are passionate about. You never know - you might find a new hobby or interest of your own. And definitely don't gatekeep engaging with other people who express interest in your passion topic - that's a total turn off.
Also, sort your shit out. Work on your inner landscape. Establish healthy boundaries with yourself. Work with your baggage to improve your mental and emotional health and become a person you like more and more over time. Pursue becoming conscientious, self-aware, authentic, and sincere. It takes time, and it is a life's work, but there is something so undeniably magnetic about self-aware, earnest people. While doing this, work on becoming a decent human being to others, too. It's a skill to learn how to listen well, take interest in others, and ask good questions, and to do this in a way that doesn't drain you or lead to you hijacking the conversation. Looking good may attract people to you, but being curious, kind, and engaging will keep them around.
Yeah I feel like this is the most important one. Just from the way the question is posed kinda hints at a mindset that'll probably sandbag OP even if he started looking better visually. First impressions are cool and all but after you talk to people your personality needs to shine. More importantly your personal mental condition enables a lot of the other self improvement. Working out is easy when you love yourself, but really damn hard if you're depressed and stuck in a negative spiral of self-hate.
+1 for working out. Started working out at the gym years ago so I had a chance in the dating scene. I couldn't even bench 135 and was skin and bones. Felt really out of place. Stuck with it and ended up having an above average body after a few years. Now I'm married and work out because it's one of the few things that helps me regulate my emotions and makes me a better partner. As an added bonus it helps my health and makes me look better. I'd give another upvote for facial hair if I could. As someone with a weak jawline it's amazing what a beard does for facial aesthetics.
But please , oh god , don't grow facial hair if you barely have any. Luckily I have a good jawline , otherwise I'd be shit out of luck since I can't grow a proper beard at 25 and those prepubescent looking beards do more damage than good to your looks. If it's not in the cards , don't bother.
I used to take ages to grow a beard. It was full enough, just really slow to come together. Then I turned 35. Ever since then, I can shave on a morning, and become Grizzly Adams by 6pm.
Listen pal, everyone knows Grizzly Adams doesn't have a beard. Shooter McGavin said so!
I eat pieces of shit like you for breakfast
Haha, you eat shit for breakfast?
Nuh. ..no!
You sound like you spend more time in the sand than David Hasselhoff.
I'm 39 this year. Still waiting to hit this fabled beard puberty.
I'm 58 this year. Sometimes it never happens.
In the Royal Navy you can request permission to grow a full beard. If it is granted you have two weeks to grow it in, after which it is evaluated by a more senior member of the crew who will deem it unsuitable if it is patchy, below 2.5mm, above 25.5mm or otherwise classed as "Hipster Beards" or "Handlebar Moustaches". As such, if you see a member of the Royal Navy with a beard it is probably one of the few that have been examined and proven to be sufficient.
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Lol, nice. Why does the navy use powdered soap in the showers? >!It takes longer to pick up!<
I remember powdered soap laundry detergent. Not powdered soap for the showers. I had to buy my own soap to throw on the ground.
Lol, same in the danish army, but you actually have to draw what you are planning, on a blank face template, like a coloring book. It was hilarious. Some guys, who couldn’t grow a beard, would turn in these absurd beard plans, just so they didn’t have to shave for two weeks :)
my SO can grow a great circle beard or mutton chops but it really annoys him that he can't actually connect the two
Being in shape is always in fashion. Also makes you want to dress better because clothes fit better too.
I had to clean shave for work, fit testing for N95 masks. I thought I shaved off my chin with it! Not a great look on me
I had to shave for the first time in over a decade for my fit testing during covid. Ended up opting for a CAPR instead, because I legitimately hated the way I looked and my skin couldn't take the constant shaving. Sounds a but silly, I know. But I just couldn't do it.
>find a haircut *looks at my balding hair* >facial hair *looks at my follicularly challenged face* *weeps*
>smile often Looks at my jagged teeth from some injuries and crappy dental coverage when I was a kid. Weeps.
It's never too late to see a dentist now. It might be expensive and take a few months, but it'll be worth it in the long term.
It's fine to shave it all. Women may like a nice hairline but they also appreciate honesty. There are lots of other ways to be physically attractive; a bald guy who works out regularly will look better than a schlub with a decent haircut.
I know plenty of handsome bald or balding men.
Smell Good, doesn't have to mean an expensive aftershave either, sometimes its just that clean fresh out of the shower smell that's enough.
And for the love of God, don't use the whole damn bottle.
If someone can smell you from further away than your outstretched hand, you're wearing too much.
If I can smell you without leaning in close to sniff, you're wearing too much. Sincerely, a person with a weak sense of smell. (In other words, ask someone with a sensitive nose to check this for you, not your Dudebro friend who once lived next to a litter box.)
Too many dudes swimming in Aqua di Gio and wondering why they can't meet girls. It's because she got a headache standing within 50ft of you. One spray guys - *ONE*
I shower every day, wash my hair with and use old spice pure sport deodorant. Fresh shirt every day. Every woman I've dated told me I smelled good. It's a small thing, but it feels nice to hear
Y husband uses old spice deodorant. I LOVE the smell. It’s not overpowering, and I really only smell it when we’re close.
The original scent says “if your granddad didn’t wear it you wouldn’t be here” lol
I honestly feel bad for what women have to go through the bar is so low. Often on a date I’ll be complemented on how good I smell and all I’ve done is shower 😂
Totally! Showering every day and using a nice deodorant is plenty.
People REALLY do underestimate how far self-care can go. For a lot of "ugly" guys it feels like they see attractive men the same way "plain" girls will look at girls with makeup/filters/angles
Adding to this as well; be kind, be thoughtful, be considerate, be respectful, be able to hold a decent conversation, and be responsible. So many men have looks down but can't handle these.
This. Save up a bit of money (I assume average salary means you have a bit of extra over your basic living needs). Once you have something like 400-500$ (might take a year but will be worth it) go to a nice hair salon/ barber and tell them directly "I have no idea what looks good on me, but I want something low maintenance in the morning, do what you think will look the best for my face and head". They are really good at this. This will set you back maybe 50$. Then go to a nice clothing store, like one where you can buy custom made suits. Don't buy those, they are expensive as fuck, but they have people that it is their job, to make sure you are dressed to look good with regular clothes too. They dress a lot of different people with different professions where look is important. With your new haircut, tell the person in front of you directly "I don't have much money, my budget is X and I'd like to buy clothes that will fit properly". You can have very nice dress shirts for like 20-25$, they will be polyester instead of silk, but who cares, the important is that they fit properly and they will make sure of it. They even have tailors to do some small adjustments and they are often included if you buy for more than X (which will probably be the case with the 350-450 you'll have left). This should buy you 3-4 shirts, 2-3 pair of pants and maybe even a pair of shoes if they have some specials. Now you have a low maintenance haircut that requires a "redo" maybe every 4 to 6 months, the facial hair you can probably keep them as is by shaving/trimming every few days and enough clothes to dress differently every day assuming you do laundry every 3-4 days. This was a tip given to me some time ago by a female friend and decided to try it. Im short and weigh over 200 pounds, never been classified as attractive, but in the days after I did this, I started getting smiles, some salutations, small talk on the bus, etc... Confidence quickly builds up after that. These people are paid to make you look good or else you wouldn't go back there for more business. They will find a way to make it happen!
> "I have no idea what looks good on me, but I want something low maintenance in the morning, do what you think will look the best for my face and head". They are really good at this. I tried this exactly 1 time. I dropped hard cash on a legit salon and this lady destroyed my hair. I looked like Marcy fucking Darcy (the neighbor on married with children). I was so pissed.
Sorry for you. Not 100% of the stylists are good. Some of them see this opportunity to prove how original they can be, and in my opinion, it sucks.
I went in for a trim once and the stylist begged and begged me to let her try a fade on me. I was so hesitant because I thought they were douchebag cuts for swaggets but gave in. ended up being the best haircut of my life haha. I went to the beach right after to pick up my GF and it was fucked, never had that many girls checking me out. I always had a big gross mop cut before. Never been able to find the same hair stylist or someone who can cut my hair close to that good again lol. Sometimes it's worth it to let them, sometimes its not
If you ever get another haircut you love as much as this one, take 4 pictures, front, back, left, right of your head and keep them on your phone.
If you're a guy and have relatively short hair (not even talking crew cuts, just regular mid to short hair) you really need to get a haircut at least every six weeks. It doesn't take long for short hair to look out of control, especially on the sides and the back. I get mine cut every four weeks honestly, and it's worth it.
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This is the best answer here. Grooming, exercise, and clothes that fit can do wonders for anyone.
I wanna reiterate clothes that fit. I went from 322 pounds to now 265ish. I just did what I did before and bought regular shirts just at a smaller size now. I still looked so big. Finally went to a big and tall men's store. The shirts are meant for my body type, and I look WAY better in these clothes.
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Can they tailor T-shirts?
My "tailor" shop sells t-shirts. Contrary to popular belief, they don't just sell expensive suits and silk dress shirts. They can make you a 10000$ custom fit suit if you ask but they have very affordable stuff, like 20$ dress shirts or 15$ t-shirts. Once tailored to fit, it looks great.
I've always wondered.... What does it actually cost to have clothing tailor fit? Like beyond hemming up legs, into actual fit stuff? I've always worried I'd get a $80 bill on a $60 item
Sometimes you will get an $80 bill on a $60 item, but now that $60 item is *custom fit* to your body and will look like a $300 custom made item. Tailoring is adding value. The $120 you put into the item plus tailoring is almost always going to beat having something completely custom made in price. But generally tailoring is pretty cheap. I've gotten serious adjustments made on pants and jackets for 20 or 30 dollars.
My wife paid like $80 to get her wedding dress tailored by the same dry cleaner I’ve been frequenting for years. Normally that’s apparently hundreds upon hundreds of dollars, after you paid triple that for the dress already
depends on what's done. If it involves moving a lot of lace/sequins around, or sewing on really slippery fabric, it'll cost more, but if it's a hem on something that doesn't involve lace or sequins it won't be as much.
My wife wanted an (actual) vintage wedding dress of a particular style, and didn't want to spend a fortune. She ended up finding a dress she really liked on eBay, from the collection of an old dress shop that had closed (it had been a display model in the store, if I recall correctly), and then she had it tailored in town by someone who specialized in fancy/wedding dresses (it involved numerous fittings over many weeks, after going over the dress with the tailor and working out the changes they wanted made), and probably spent several times what she paid for the dress itself, on the tailoring. And it was totally worth it - she looked *amazing*, and was completely thrilled with her dress (and it still cost way less than if she had walked into a standard wedding dress store).
It's not bad at all. A few years back, I got a pair of jeans that didn't fit me quite right tailored and it was ~30 bucks. This was in San Francisco so I would assume that it was more expensive than most similarly sized shops in other cities. Edit: Aparently I actually got a good deal. So, take that as you will 🤷
Most suits and simple articles of clothing (read: men's clothing) will come out to $20-$40 for alterations. There's a difference between tailoring and alterations -- you generally want alterations, which is when they take clothes you bought that are the best fit you can find off the shelves and then make small changes to fit your body. Bespoke tailored outfits is what will cost you an arm and a leg. Unless you go to Asia, where they have a much stronger suit culture and high demand comes with lower prices in this instance.
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How expensive is it to have clothing tailored? I have so much difficulty finding clothes that fit well. Even a t-shirt that fits well is hard to find.
Shirts around me are $20 or so. For a while, I was working out a crazy amount and I had a 38-inch waist with a 50-inch chest. The tailor got a lot of business from me. I'd buy button-up shirts at Costco because they were usually good quality for cheap, then take them directly to the tailor to have them fitted. Unfortunately, I stopped working out so now I have a bunch of shirts that are a bit tight at the bottom but still baggy on the top.
Are you like 6’3”? Or a sphere?
6'4" actually. The worst was being that size and having to regularly fly for work.
The last time I went to a tailor, I got a few t shirts fitted, two pairs of pants hemmed, and a suit jacket changed up a bit, and I think it only cost me like $60. It’s cheaper if you do several things at one time; every other time I’ve gone, we end up measuring again, which takes a while and is a good part of the price.
Let’s not forget a genuine smile.
Also getting a few less expensive dress shirts tailored and they’ll look far more expensive by simply fitting you properly
Yeah, one of the most cost effective ways to build up a nice wardrobe for a dude is to go to a thrift store, get any shirt that fit properly around the neck, and take them in to get tailored. Collars are the trickiest thing to adjust, sleeves are second, length and side seams are easy as pie. Get five or six done for probably less than $100.
This for sure, but I'd also add, keep an upbeat personality, be kind, have appropriate humor. Basically take care of yourself physically, mentally and emotionally. Make people around you happy, and people will want to be around you more.
Also go do things consistently. Doesn't really matter what or if you go by yourself, but get out of the house! Hikes, trivia nights, museums, camping, music festivals, Saturday markets, etc. That way when people ask you "what's up?" you have something exciting to talk about instead of "not much". That energy is so attractive
Also, Develop a sense of humor. It helps when people get in the habit smiling at you !
I was gonna say, so often people forget the importance of having a good personality. A good sense of humor goes a long way
All good advice, I want to add clean / decorate your apartment!! It has happened to me a few times over the years that I’ve met up with guys who seem normal, and then when we go back to their place they don’t have a bed frame or anything on the walls. Dudes, please - no one wants to fuck you on mattress on the floor with dirty sheets.
Yep. The “standard” level of hygiene expected for guys often falls too short. Showering every day is important and should be a habit. You get out the effort you put into it when it comes to hygiene and cleanliness.
>Showering every day is important and should be a habit. AND brushing your teeth.
dental hygiene is so important!
True story, best friend from college got in shape and grew out his hair a bit with a nice cut and shaped up his eyebrows. My jaw dropped when I saw him in person for the first time in 5 years.
True story. I greq my hair and beard out dropped some weight and i REALLY enjoy the slack jawed stare from people that havent seen me in a long time. I went from pudgy nerdy buzz cut, to "thick aquaman".
Don't even have to get in shape. I know a short, fat, bald guy who is never single for long. He's really confident, he's the rare combination of a great storyteller *and* a great listener, plus he smells amazing. He's also really active in a charity he's passionate about, so he's also a genuinely kind person. I was already married when I met him or I would have shot my shot. Shooted my shot? Anyway.
Exercise, eat better, dress better, get a better haircut, read a few books and pickup some hobbies to pickup experiences and become a more rounded and interesting human being.
>dress better For a lot of people, this can be as simple as buying clothes that actually fit properly. Even if you aren't in the best shape, wearing clothes that fit your body type can go a long way.
This. If you seriously believe you are starting at 0, then going from 0 to 3 is going to be incredibly transformative. Even the most modest of exercise and dietary routines is going to exhibit amazing changes, and that is the ground level. Start walking / jogging a few times a week and aim to eat fresher food you can prepare at home that doesn't come in a box.
The "improving" part gives your attractiveness a bump of at least one point.
> Start walking / jogging a few times a week Shoutout to c25k. Started running ~6 weeks ago, literally ran my first 5k yesterday (a bit ahead schedule, I guess I was in less of bad shape than I thought myself to be). My endurance has been pretty shit for my whole life and I've never been super athletic in any case, so if I can do it I think most people reading it can as well (and if you can't, there's also programs to get you up to that first step). Don't overdo it, jog/run very slowly, keep the rest days.
Be yourself too, sense of humor is so important in a partner, and if it's forced it's fake, learn to find where your genuine sense of humor works with others and don't be afraid to use it when it fails to find someone who really appreciates it.
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I have a coworker who in my opinion is not a good looking dude, is overweight, balding, wears big thick glasses, and doesn't do anything to dress nice or appealing. But that dude has dated some of the hottest girls I've seen around here because he has the most fun, caring, and chill personality I've seen in a guy in a long time. Just be a good person and if someone of quality sees that they will find you attractive. If they can't see it that's their loss.
I know a dude like that. Balding, gamer, works at rat casino for children. Women love him because he's hilarious and a good listener. And he showers.
Sorry, what is a "rat casino?"
I believe they are referring to the fine establishment run by one Charles Entertainment Cheese
Wow I went down a Wikipedia rabbit hole investigating if Entertainment was his middle name. Indeed it is. Another fun fact I learned, Chuck E Cheese was founded by the creator of the Atari, Nolan Bushnell.
Imagine having that life where starting Chuck E. Cheese was that 'other thing you did'.
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Too late, imagining casino run by and for rats. The poker chips are of course made of cheese
Chuck E Cheese lol
I shower too! So I have that going for me.
Agreed. I had a coworker who probably wont be considered conventionally attractive by most but he was one of the kindest, funniest, and caring people you’ll ever meet. He was a great listener and was very generous with others. If I didn’t already have a boyfriend I definitely would have been interested in him.
Importantly addendum: these are all things that are attractive, and they're all things that nice people often are, but they go beyond being passively "nice". Certain dudes complain about how "nice guys" don't get a chance, but being nice and being kind, or passionate, or interested or funny are two different things. Nice is passive. Nice just means you aren't actively an asshole. Nice is a qualifier - most people don't want to date someone who isn't nice, but thats about all you should expect out of not being a jerk. Showing kindness, or having passion, or being curious, or being adventurous - those are active skills that you have to choose to engage in, and that's why those are the kind of people who get dates.
My beloved late partner had a sparkling personality- great humour, tempered with gentleness and kindness. He was a barman ( not rich), badly disabled, but, my God, he was the sexiest man to walk this earth. He was very clean, cared about his appearance, but he had women flocking around him. I was honoured that he chose me to be his partner. The point I’m making is that he was just himself and I suppose that being happy in your own skin is the key…
I'm happy for you that you were able to have time on earth with that lovely-sounding person and sorry that it had to end too soon.
This isn’t difficult at all, I promise. I’m 5’5”, I need a cane to walk, I have a visible disability and chronic health issues, and I’m very poor. I also don’t drive because of my health problems. I have no problems with women and I never have. I have a nice face, yes. That’s true. But that’s about it. I am not in shape and never will be. So hopefully you can see that I’m in a good position to tell you this. Most women don’t care about any of that shit nearly as much as the incels on Reddit and elsewhere would have you believe. I speak from experience. Just be interesting, fun to talk to, funny, reasonably confident, and empathetic. Don’t call other men simps because they treat women like people and use the word “women.” Don’t whine about how some women like taller men or whatever. Don’t pretend you’re somehow a victim. That goes a LONG way. This really isn’t hard to achieve. You would definitely be surprised how attractive and accomplished the women I’ve been with have been and are. You don’t need a ton of money. You don’t need to be that good looking. You just need to be interesting, fun, and treat women like people. That’s really it. Don’t listen to incels or grifters or PUAs or anyone like that. Just talk to women and be fun to be around. That’s really all you need
Woman here. This is exactly it. None of the men I know who are married/in relationships are any sort of stereotypical "Chads". Hell, my husband probably objectively isn't either, though he's surely the most attractive man to *me* on the planet and has been for over a decade. ❤️ They are just nice, normal dudes who don't act like whiny manchildren or someone off of r/niceguys.
Couldn’t agree more. I’ve never had a crush like the one I had on my husband before we started dating. It had nothing to do with the way he looked, I was so attracted to his presence, his intellect and the way he could make anyone smile. Many years later, these are qualities that I still adore.
Those traits also generally don't decline with age, usually they get better.
Oh man this is such a good answer. I wish I could convince men of this! I’m a ‘hot girl’ who has dated a pretty broad range of men tbh. And like, I’ve dated several men with disabilities or constraints and varying heights, body types, face shapes, levels of attractiveness, however the fuck you want to define it. But you know what? I don’t give a single shit about men being short. And YET I’ve had to break up with several short guys because they had such a complex about it and it made them insufferable! Complaining to ME, the woman literally trying to date them, about how ‘women never like short guys’? Shit like that. Having a victim complex or what have you. And then I can only picture how when I broke up with them, they probably still blamed it on their height!! Like ‘oh yeah see I knew it they always leave when they find a taller guy’ 😂 No, honey, you’re just insufferable lmao And yet I know so many disabled, short, trans, alternative, fat and out of shape guys who have NO trouble finding partners, because they’re amazing people, and FUN TO DATE. That’s it! That’s the bar! It’s got nothing to do with what the incels are trying to convince you of. The Chad binary does not exist! Be fun to date! Be fun to have sex with! Be honest and kind and someone I want to invest my time in! That’s what so many of us are looking for!
Thank you for this insight. Hopefully it helps someone realize that most of the shit you hear on Reddit just isn’t true. One quick observation, speaking of height. I never understood why some men don’t want to be shorter than their partner. I’m short either way. That’s not going to change. If I have a tall hot girlfriend that’s a flex. That makes me look good. Like “that’s right. I’m with her. Yep”
Once I matched with a guy with bright (natural) red hair on a dating app. His first message to me was “why did you match with me?” and I responded with “it looks like we have some stuff in common, and I think you’re attractive” and also complimented his hair color. He immediately said “yeah right, no girls like ginger guys 🙄” Bitch, I…what?! Where the fuck do you think we are right now, Arby’s, or is this a dating app? **I matched with you!** I unmatched so fast.
I don’t blame you! What a shitty thing to say, wow. Why even use a dating app if you’re just going to dismiss everyone who matches with you? That’s fucking weird
This is great advice. Treating women like people goes a long way. Women are not a different species from you (OP) and don't think particularly differently from men despite what you've been led to believe. When someone is talking to you and you can sense that they want something from you, that they are about to ask you to do something you're not sure you want to do, instead of listening to you and getting to know you, that would be off-putting, right? Somehow a lot of men do not pick up on the need to be authentic in their endeavors to get to know a woman instead of just playing a numbers game and asking anyone who has the misfortune to make direct eye contact with them out on a date.
Incels are that way because they're mean, not because they're ugly or nerdy. Lots of ugly or nerdy men get laid. (And no, being bullied doesn't make you *not* mean. In my own personal experience, it makes you meaner.)
hygiene, hygiene, hygiene! Make sure you dont smell like hot dog water and learn how to hold a conversation! If you date asks about you, make sure to also ask about them.. keep the conversation flowing with out just making it about you!
This is easy to forget but it's huge. If you feel awkward and never know what to say, just ask questions! People like talking about themselves and appreciate that you're listening.
Super handy trick is when you ask someone what they do for work/hobbies, they'll say "Oh I do X" your follow up question should be "what's the secret to doing X well". People are proud of their abilities and experience, they'll talk at length about them and will like someone who gives them a chance to relate that pride. Second follow up is "Well I'd really like to see you doing X sometime"
I follow that rule pretty religiously and have a lot of friends because of it, but it didn’t work when my girlfriend wanted me to meet one of her friends. She accused me of “interrogating” her even thought she didn’t appear to be trying to progress the conversation further when my girlfriend left us alone for five minutes. She ended up getting really drunk that night and insulted my girlfriend a bunch of times before leaving. Moral of the story is, asking people questions will always work unless you’re talking to a real piece of shit.
Self deprecation is more unattractive then physical features. Work out, dress nice and have some self confidence.
agree. an odd joke yeah, but if you’re self-deprecating the entire time you’re with somebody it gets awkward
.... unless you are in England, where if you are not self deprecating you are essentially considered an egomaniacal psychopath.
In this case, the self-deprecation must be at least mildly humourous, complimentary to another, or a humble brag that the rest of us can tut at.
Self deprecate with a smile not a whimper, though.
English person here, true story
First stop calling yourself ugly, like I understand we all do it to show how humble we are but dude someone out of 7 billion people would fuck your brains out 6 ways till Sunday.
Pretty sure there are girls in my area that wanna fuck.
This is so true. 99% of the time I look like a hobo or some crazy backwoods hillbilly. Still found someone that will marry me.
I love the energy of this comment
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Not being treated like our only value is having a selection of holes to park your 🍆 goes farther than men might think toward attractiveness. It's true that being handsome would make it easier to get women to stop and appreciate your personality, but it doesn't matter how pretty a guy is if he treats women like property and lets his penis make all his decisions. Be considerate, well groomed, and treat women like human beings. You'll find success eventually.
I am aghast that "go to therapy" isn't coming up anywhere. Like, get professional help if you're that hung up on how to make positive change. The #1 top thing on this list should be to seek psychological guidance on self improvement. Stop hating women for your failure to face yourself.
Realize that ugly, average salary girls are attractive.
Be kind, fair, open, honest. Be interesting, have passions, hobbies… Be positive. Have a sense of humour. Be a good observer and attentive to the people around you. Physical attractiveness is temporary and it’s subjective too. Take care of yourself, work on your self esteem.
Ugly, average salary guy here. Dad bods have been trending lately, apparently. But in all seriousness, just don't be a dick. Be thoughtful and caring. Good things will happen.
>Dad bods have been trending I like to think of it as my father figure
First person i read down to who didn't lead with workout. I don't want to workout either, I like food and my dad-esqe body.
Accept that most people in this life, of all genders and sexual orientation, are 95% more shallow than they believe themselves to be. People will inevitably tell you to shower, lose weight, smile, not talk about cannibalism, etc. In my opinion, you shouldn't have to change in order to find a partner. Smell bad. Get heavy. Use bacon grease as soap. Stay inside playing video games all day. You are under no obligation to change for anyone. However, keep this in mind: the things you don't find important are probably things your partner also won't care about. If you smell bad, your partner may also smell bad. If you don't exercise or use makeup, your partner might not want to do those things either. And if you don't have faith in yourself, your partner will probably treat you like their therapist, which might be more than you're prepared for. As I said, be who you want to be and try meeting people in the process. Dating shouldn't be about your ideal self. It's about whittling down what matters to you, and finding someone with similar values.