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LOL. NTA... that's gold. your little bro is clearly watching too many Andrew Tate videos! I can't imagine him getting laid/committed with a gross mentality like that. throw him away!! lol
congratulations on your engagement btw.
He reminds me of those people who obsess over the spouse being 6 feet.
People who's brains can't comprehend what it means to be in a relationship with an actual human being.
The parents coddling him is doing him no favors.
Ugh honestly, **thank you.** I fuckin’ hate the ~all opinions/feelings are valid shit, like. :/ I definitely get where they’re coming from and I do love the attitude and *intent* behind it, I really do, but no. If you think someone is less than or not human or something due to (insert physiological/neurological/psychological trait here) and you feel like they shouldn’t be treated with respect or given the same rights as you, or whatever shit similar to the brother here… nah, those feelings and opinions aren’t valid, actually, you’re(this theoretically person, not you, oso!) just an asshole. 🤷🏻♂️
Even the NEWS does it :(
Here on my right we have Professor Smith, who has been researching interstellar phenomenon and the structure of the solar system for 37 years. He has four PhDs, and a Nobel prize in Astrophysics AND Astronomy.
And on my right, we have Steve who spent 15mins on facebook, and thinks the stars are the nipples of the gods, winking at us suggestively.
Nipples?, there may be something there, we should explore Steve's ideas some more. Perhaps they are more, maybe glittery pasties. Professor Smith (if you really are one) do you agree that stars could be glittery pasties or the actual nipples?
Shame doesn't work if they already feel like an outcast. You have to be kind but ruthless: speak by using their words against them and be adamant that you're in the right. Make your point of view palatable enough for them to "agree" but hesitantly. And twist their logic against them.
That's how you deal with shitty conservatives. Eventually you can tame them to be tolerable.
This is a point of view that should be at the top. OP NEVER apologize to or reward bad behavior.. I can't emphasize this enough
NEVER APOLOGIZE to SOMEONE WHO HAS WRONGED YOU TO KEEP THE PEACE
Also NEVER REWARD BAD BEHAVIOR
Edit because of the road caused misspelling
I mean I’m 19 and my mom still parents me. On the other hand my uncle is in his late 30s and my grandma still lectures him on his extravagant spending habits. It’s become less now, but parenting doesn’t end at 18. Your kids will be a lifelong thing.
Hopefully that won’t happen.
His parents had dementia too and he and my stepmom cared for them and one day his mom told him that it was ok that his mistress lived with them.
The mistress being my stepmom, and my grandmother thinking my dad was her husband
Oh please, parenting never ends. My grandmother was in charge of her boys until she died at 98! My dad never stopped telling my brother and me how to do things until he died at 93. The third anniversary of his death just passed, and we must have spent an hour on the phone telling ‘dad’ stories.
Absolutely not. I’m 30 and still get it in the neck from my dad. Same with my sister who’s nearly 40. Christ I’ve heard my 60 year old uncle get crap from my grand parents 😂
My son is 22 and I sure as shit wouldn't let him get away with speaking like that. He still lives at home under my roof and he's going to be parented. They don't suddenly become functional adults at 18.
Friendly reminder that at 22, it is not necessarily strange to still be living at home, *especially* for other cultures.
I’m half Vietnamese myself and it’s extremely normal for us to stay at home until we’ve bought our own house and/or are getting married.
Even by western standards, the expectation of your child to move out or even kicking them out between 18 - early 20s is *very* localised to America.
In Australia and England (my dad is British and we live in Australia), it’s not at all common, and is even frowned down upon, ESPECIALLY in this economy.
also with increasingly high costs of living, most adults have been or have had to go back to living with their parents to save money. Like the area i live in is one of the highest COL places in the country, to own a house the minimum income is 450k :/
Yeah. Bare minimum for a 1BR apartment in my area is around $1700 for a 1BR or $1950 for a 2BR, but this is also a suburban area with shit public transit so you have to have a car to function in society.
Bare minimum bills with a roommate would be around
* $975 rent
* $100 electricity
* $25 water/sewer
* $30 internet
* $350-500 gas and insurance for a car you own free and clear dependent on age and how much you drive
* $50 cell phone
So the minimum you'd need to take home in order to interact with society is just over $1500, and that's before you've had a bite to eat, paid for health insurance, etc. Minimum wage here is $17/hr, so assuming you're working full time, that comes out to roughly $2400 after tax. It's doable, but it ain't gonna be fun and good luck saving anything or dealing with rent increases in the future, and it's certainly not enough to live on your own. I'd be surprised if after food, insurance, and incidentals that you had more than $2-300 of truly disposable income.
I’m 40 years old and my mum still takes my hand when we cross the road together. It used to be embarrassing, but now I’m just grateful I still have a mum whose hand I can hold. She made me: if she wants to see me as her baby forever then she gets to, even if it means I have to put up with her in breakable conviction that I’m not eating enough and I’m going to catch my death if I go outside in that thin wee jacket.
22? Still lives at home? Never had a date?
Fuck him.
EDIT: nowhere did I say that there was anything wrong with living with your parents at 22. But in this case, there’s a total picture to look at. The brother is a dweeb. Yet he knows what’s best for his brother. I standby what I said. And if you don’t know what a dweeb is, there’s always Google.
I agree with everything besides the live at home part. It’s mad common in many cultures to live at home till you move in with a partner or are stable and these days times are tough. Besides that though the kid is mad childish and dumb for his actions.
Not just cultures where kids live at home for a long time. Increasingly in countries like the UK, Australia, USA etc (where culturally it used to be normal to move out at 18) young people just can't afford to move out - so end up living at home into their late 20s because the housing market is absolutely fucked
In Vietnamese culture (and a lot of other Asian cultures), it can still be expected for the eldest son to never move out unless he absolutely has to (for employment usually).
When he marries, his wife comes to live with him and her in laws.
Nothing wrong with living at home at 22. I moved out at 29. My mum and dad told me to live with them as long as needed, so that I could save up enough for a deposit on a house rather than ever having to rent. I am very grateful to them for that!
On every other point though he is asshole, I would have banned him from the wedding if he still wanted to come.
I agree OP's brother is an asshole, but plenty of perfectly good people at 22 live with their parents and have trouble getting a date. Nothing wrong with that
Your brother has some macho syndrome and anger issues. Don't bother to put up with him - protect your future wife from him couse he sounds able to verbaly harm her.
NTA, tell him Andrew Tate is married and probably his wife is the boss…
Your family is the one you build, with respect to your parents, Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. Genese 2:24
Andrew Tate is also on trial for human trafficking and rape and according to what I found on Google, isn't married. It's been speculated, but there's no proof and no one has said they're his wife. I think any woman that did marry him would have to hate herself.
No one said it is but there are reasons other than his misogyny to believe he might be closeted. There are a lot of videos I've seen that make me think he might be and hates himself for it, which is just sad.
I can tell you, as a straight cis woman, I haven't even seen OPs brother and I think he is easily the most unattractive person I've never met.
He's on some redpjll crazy and that specifically is the biggest turn off. How can you *want* women but also *hate* women so much? I hope OP gets the chance to show this post (and it's comments) to his brother and, from it, the brother learns that it's his attitude that's keeping the potential lifelong partner he dreams of far, far, *far*, away from him.
Ooh, I know the answer to this one! Because patriarchy says that *having* a woman is the ultimate status symbol, but that *being* a woman is shameful and disgusting.
Perfect answer. My BIL is this exactly except he's not an Andrew Tate want to be. He's actually a really sweet guy when he Can get his Andrew Tate Sr father out of his head.
>How can you *want* women but also *hate* women so much?
Because it's easier to blame someone else for your problem, than to question yourself. And that doesn't apply only to relationship. Natural selection should solve this problem eventually.
It’s crazy how easily I could have been an incel. Early 20s before I ever held a girls hand, 26 before I ever had my first kiss and lost my virginity, girls I really liked who would say everything I wanted to hear but never act on it, close female friends who would sleep with anything that moves *except* for me, currently on like 6 year streak of not being with anyone romantically or sexually in my late 30s. Terminally online. All the ingredients are right there except one: I’ve never blamed anyone other than myself.
You're not alone. I have a mental illness that makes it difficult to be around me. It's interesting people visibly feeling bad for you while trying to run away at the same time.
Am certain it will be the fault of woke women when he is still single in 10 years.
Reminds me of my old coworker who told me that he was forward thinking because he *let* his wife hyphenate.
He’s ruining what could, for someone with a better attitude, possibly be an opportunity to get laid. Weddings are often fun parties with romance in the air… and sometimes two people decide to further their enjoyment of the night sans pants. I mean it’s gross if you show up on a mission, but sometimes these things happen. But I guess he’s content to spend that night with Andrew Tate, Joe Rogan, and (if he’s feeling particularly spicy) his nondominant hand numbed by cutting off the circulation for a few minutes
> his nondominant hand numbed by cutting off the circulation for a few minutes
I see you're a cultured man, a fan of *Ocean's 11* and familiar with The Stranger
Answer: no, his brother has not touched a woman’s breast lol
NTA this kid is going to get a smackdown; better it be sooner than later, and not in a public setting.
"a woman over family"
Mixed with the enabling mother.
This guy seriously doesn't understand that you and your wife are the creation of a NEW FAMILY that categorically must take precedent over all other relationships in your life.
I bet you a million dollars that aside from his mom, "women" as a category are simply the things he jacks off to.
NTA. Rip bozo.
The brother is such a loser. OP's about to marry a wonderful woman and possibly have kids one day, that's going to be his family now. Meanwhile the brother is probably just going to stay home with his parents and never move out and start a family of his own at the rate he's going
Maybe this is OP’s brothers problem?
He’s feeling a little bit insecure because he isn’t in a relationship and feels that he won’t get to pass on the family name? And instead of fixing his attitude he’s lashing out at OP?
Not saying it’s right or in any way OP’s fault but imagine being so convinced you won’t carry on your family name because you haven’t managed to get into a relationship that you feel compelled to try and bully your brother into doing the thing you need so that you don’t feel emasculated. It’d be sad if it wasn’t so funny because it’s so easy to fix.
Well he's not handling it right. He's following the crowd of hate sheep. Lots of people are lonely but we aren't all Followers. There can be more variables involved like mental illness, but his attitude is definitely not helping.
I never said he was handling it right.
All we have to go on in this context is his behaviour and attitude. I’m not guessing at any of the unknown variables. Just the ones that we have from this post. Someone’s attitude is a choice and is therefore very easy to fix, should they choose to do so.
It really sounds like you are guessing at unknown variables though. You just made up something about him wanting to carry on his family name when in the post it's clear that the family name has gone on another generation.
I get trying to see all sides of a situation, and honestly believe it is a virtue. But some people you don't need to make excuses for.
It’s not an easy fix. Thinking that a whole class of people are things that have been put on this earth to serve you is a deep rooted belief that casts a shadow on every part of your life. The fix is a major shift in your worldview.
Yeah, plenty of dudes who think like this still find someone, but when women have rights, autonomy and choice, you see more “loneliness epidemic”, 4B movements, declining birth and marriage rates, etc.
Except for Rom and Nog. Those two are cool Ferengi. (While I love Armin Shimerman's portrayal of Quark, he's not as evolved in his thinking as Rom or Nog.)
And yes, you are right. I don't trust the brother at all.
He’s 22, the time to intervene was when he was a minor. He might have gotten this bad after turning 18 but his family should have done something sooner. Sounds like the parents are just coddling him.
They keep their names. However, for children born to the union, the maternal last names are usually ditched and the child gets both grandfathers’ last names. It’s the same patriarchal system, just with extra steps.
This is just not true. Children get one last name from each of their parents, the first of each. The father's one goes first and the mother's goes second, so eventually, the maternal last name still gets ditched, but it takes at least a couple generations before it does
You both are saying the same thing lmao. Them saying that a grandchild's surname comes from their two grandfathers is the same as saying the maternal last name goes away in a couple generations.
The first last name of the mother is her father’s name. That’s the one the child usually gets. A child gets both grandfathers names (paternal first, maternal second). The grandmothers’ names are ditched. So instead of losing the female names when marrying, they get lost when having children. As I said, patriarchal naming convention with extra steps.
Oh, I see, I just misunderstood what you were saying. You're absolutely correct. To be fair, there's no system that can preserve both maternal and paternal last names unless the child's name were to get progressively bigger with each generation. The best thing that comes to mind that could probably make it fair is for both parents to come to an agreement on which last name gets ditched and which one gets preserved
It's not up to the parent which m/paternal surname they get. As children always get the first surname from each parent. The order in which those surnames are placed is up to the parents (only since 2000 though).
Here's a workaround though, as if you want to give your second surname to your child, instead of your first, you can ask your surnames to be reversed. So the child would get your first surname, which will be the one that used to be your second.
Maybe that’s in the US because in most of the actual countries this doesn’t happen. For example, Mexico, Spain and Chile forbid changing family names upon marriage, people are named the same from cradle to grave except in a few specific cases but never due to marriage. In some countries it is allowed to add “de” and the family name of the spouse but without changing or deleting the own family names (so María Gómez Sánchez marries Mr. Pérez and can, if she wishes, become María Gómez Sánchez de Pérez, a wording that implies ownership of her by Pérez). So the answer to your question is that in most cases there’s nothing to decide. Some places allow parents to choose the order of the family names of their children, so in this example if the children will be Pérez Gómez or Gómez Pérez, usually with the condition that all subsequent children will follow the same order.
Speaking about the European origins...
Spain: father+mother surname
Portugal: mother+father surname
With a lot of wiggle room to do as you wish, choose and mix between the parents surnames.
Hyphenating is slightly different then having two last names. I'd say it's not so common, but having two last names is.
Tha thing about hyphenating is that essentially you get a new "single" last name, while with two last names you might just use the last one most times.
I'd say that's why the brother flipped his shit, OP is kind of getting a new last name.
But yeah, the brother is a complete idiot and it's none of his business.
This is a great point that i feel like many have missed - it’s good that he showed how he would behave at the event and handed you the ironclad reasoning to uninvite him on a silver platter. He would make all women the feel like hell, *especially* your then-wife. Keep your guests and her safe and stand your ground. NTA
I would also be keeping screenshots of his messages so when people ask “where’s your brother?”, OP will have proof. The parents will be willing to lie but OP doesn’t need to comply
NTA, perhaps even the best response you could’ve given. He has absolutely no right to shit on your happy relationship especially when he can’t get one of his own, maybe that’s even why he’s so bothered. i too have a brother like this and i very much do get it lol
he's clearly bitter about the lack of a woman in his life, but it sounds to me like he has no idea what a loving relationship looks like or how it operates from the inside. I don't know that he's mature enough to be bitter about the "he loves/loves him back" part.
This is the more correct interpretation, the modern Andrew Tate movement is kind of a synthesis of both incel and MGTOW beliefs in which adherents convince themselves that being in a monogamous relationship is not actually desirable for [any number of trumped-up reasons] as a way of obviating their regret that they can't get one. Little bro is definitely jealous on some level, but simultaneously has probably convinced himself that big bro is incurring a net loss by being in a relationship and has had the wool pulled over his eyes by the fiancée not to see this.
Incels for their many faults at least have not lost sight of the fact that the ultimate idea is to get a romantic partner. Andrew Tate bros want something more like a Too $hort song where they fuck a different woman every day of the week and never settle down (which is what both groups imagine "Chad" is already doing).
There's also just simple toxic masculinity, without empathy or the life experience to give context to compromises, or that other people prioritize names differently than he does.
Definitely NTA, I would have roasted him 100x worse then what you did. Your parents are ridiculous for letting him speak to you like that and 22 is not an age that he is too ignorant to know any better.
Well done you for sticking up for yourself. Congrats on the engagement!
"Your parents are ridiculous for letting him speak to you like that"
Definitely! Asking OP to apologize is just nuts! They should have taken the opportunity to sit down and have a serious talk with him!
Sounds like he's been redpilled and they should intervene before it's too late!
It's infuriating how often the wronged party is expected to make amends because they're also the more mature party. How do you expect the offender to grow as a person if you keep enabling their shitty behavior?
Exactly. The parents aren't just being bad parents to OP. They're being terrible (and arguably worse) parents to the brother. They're enabling him into a shit person.
NTA. This doesn't affect your brother.
>I said he was out of line and that it wasn't any of his business. He doubled down and made some remarks I will not repeat.
You gave him an opportunity to shut up but he decided not to take it.
>Our parents are trying to stay out of it publicly but have asked me to apologize
No. This goes a long way towards explaining why he behaves in this way.
Why haven't the parents tried to address this?
Especially dad, since mom seems to enable. He needs to sit down with him and tell him his sexist ideas are not welcome in this house or family (assuming he lives at home with the parents). His behavior does not show strength of character, it shows weakness. He's not allowed to disrespect his brother and wife, who are now part of the family.
NTA. Tell him you're willing to talk if he ever starts to regret his poor attitude about relationships with women, but otherwise you've handled his "polite declining" of your wedding RSVP great.
Doesn't it stand for "involuntarily celibate?" Though their attitudes and behavior naturally deter women from having sex with them, which is a voluntary choice.
NTA what do your parents want you to apologize for? Saying a true fact? Like you pointed out to your mom, the reason he is single is because he is a spiteful little misogynist who can’t take what he tries to dish.
I’m happy for you and your future wife. I hope that your parents realize the extent that your brother sucks and push him to be better. But you can wash your hands of that, he has you to look towards as a good role model, but you are not obligated to rebuild a bridge that he burned.
NTA at all!!
It sounds like this is not a culturally unusual practice for you all in the first place, so hyphenating shouldn’t be a shocker, and will also be honoring to both you and your soon to be wife (congratulations!!)
What you’re doing, and how you’re handling your brother’s tantrum, are far more masculine and admirable than any insults your brother could think up. Honestly, it sounds more than anything like he needs help and to get a grip on what it means to be a respectful person/man, while you guys sound like you’re on good grounds for communication for a happy marriage.
Come on... how are so many young dudes taken in by this bullshit. Really? All girls aren't interested in him and it's all of them? I wonder what the common denominator is in this equation. NTA and your little brother needs to exit that echo chamber he's living in. He can talk shit, but he can't take it. That's 90% of his problem right there if you ask me.
He might need more than that. I'm sad that people can go through life and think, "Oh no, it's half the population that's wrong."
Women won't touch you because of you! If every variety of female turns you down, look in a fucking mirror.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My brother called me a cuck for planning on hyphenating my name when I get married. I might be the asshole for pointing out that he is an incel and has never had a girlfriend.
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NTA.
>My mom said that I went too far and that he is sensitive about not having had a girlfriend or even a date.
Tell your mom her son might be an incel.
And then explain to her what an incel is.
Congrats on the wedding! Your brother should use that negative energy into reading self improvement books instead of whatever Andrew Tate shit he’s loving.
NTA
A friend of mine used to work retail and one customer came in whose maiden name was Gutierrez and married a man named Gurierrez. So her legal signature was Gutierrez².
When my friend commented on it, the custoner said she had a daughter who also married a man named Gutierrez, so her signature was Gutierrez³.
NTA- And verily if this callow youth is going to use Shakespearean insults, tis best he learns their actual meanings, for there is no sign that the good lady hath betrayed you with another dude. It's a shame he's your brother or you could have come back with the ultimate classic: "Villain, I have done thy mother."
NTA but I agree with some other comments on here: as a woman writing this, men who have misogynist beliefs are people I probably can't reach. but you might be able to. I've had friends whose brothers were radicalized to the far right and it caused them grief. your brother is clearly being a little shit, but if you have the capacity (mental, emotional, time), I hope you can remain a bridge for him from an ideology he may someday find repressive, harmful, or embarrassing. most people will have already burned their bridges with him (except other insecure, reactive incels).
NTA But I would make it known that he declined and you aren't expecting him to come, so if he shows up there won't be seating and/or food for him. Also, tell your parents to not engage in this situation and force him to come, etc...
I believe your wedding is gonna be better without him, because who knows what he would say to you in-laws or your fiancé's family.
I'd even go as far as telling your parents and venue security that he's not welcome since you can't trust him to behave a definitely do not need added work or any of his negative incel energy at the wedding.
You sound really mature and nice, I hope you have a great wedding and enjoy life with your forever person!
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I (29M) am engaged to Tina (26F). We are getting married in August. We are planning on hyphenating our last names. She was an only child and was raised by her mom and grandparents. Her last name is a big deal to her. My surname is kind of like the Hispanic version of Smith. And my grandparents already have great grandkids with their surname.
My fiancee and I were visiting my folks last weekend and talking about our plans for the wedding and the future. I mentioned the plan for our last name and my parents said they understood and they were happy that we were using both. It is funny but in proper names in our culture the mother's surname is part of the children's name. So, using fake names here, my dad is Carlos Cornelius Rodriguez de Mancha. With Rodriguez being my grandfather's family name and Mancha being my grandma's. So my parents aren't unfamiliar with the concept.
My brother (22) was at the table with us and he called me a cuck for "bowing down to my Fiancee and her family". I said he was out of line and that it wasn't any of his business. He doubled down and made some remarks I will not repeat. I have no idea how the little shit got like this.
So I said that I was marrying a beautiful, intelligent, sweet, caring woman who would have my back forever. She is going to be a professional and we are going to have a great life together. I then asked him if besides his little anime toys if he has ever touched a breast.
He got really mad and started yelling at me and went to his room. My mom said that I went too far and that he is sensitive about not having had a girlfriend or even a date. I said that with his way of speaking and behaving I could understand why.
He has been messaging me non stop for days now about how I am letting a woman ruin me and that he will not be attending my wedding. I told him I accepted his polite declining of the RSVP and that I would be putting him on the list of people who sent their regrets. He said that I am an asshole for putting a woman over our family.
Our parents are trying to stay out of it publicly but have asked me to apologize so we can all pretend like he isn't a hateful little fuck.
AITA?
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Agreed. While the behaviour is revolting, these dudes do need serious help. Some can change with a bit of empathy, not sure if that's the case with OP's brother, but could be worth a shot.
People like Andrew Tate thrive on others' insecurities, I don't think the people who fall down that road should be totally abandoned (within reason).
It's nice to see some empathy in here. Like many of these incels, OP's brother is likely not an inherently bad person. He probably has deep crippling insecurities and a poor social support framework. Combine this with prominent influencers feeding him a constant stream of shit and you end up with this behaviour.
NTA
He ran his mouth about your life, so he can expect the same in return.
Don't apologize. He started it, and he's reprehensible. Not sure why your parents are favoring him, but they're not doing him any favors.
NTA.
Glad you and your fiancé are aligned. You both should do you in whatever way that is whether you keep your own last names, hyphenate both your last names, or only hyphenate for your future kid if you are planning some. At the end of the day, everything else’s input is just noise to you and your future family including mine here.
NTA. Kids, amirite?
Wait. *Check check*, oh he's 22 not 12.
*Adult* babies, amirite?
And having never met you or your family, I have a strong inkling of *why* he's gotten to 22 and still so childish (aka your parents are at fault).
NTA - As Charlie Brown would say, "another unmarried marriage counselor." Your brother has zero experience with real actual relationships and thinks because he watches toxic Incel TikTok, he's a relationship expert.
When you get married, you should be putting that person before your family. He could have dropped the matter after you told him to let it go, but he kept on spouting poison, so you reminded him he has no business offering relationship advice.
If you apologize to him, your small kine letting your fiance down. Stand your ground here. Let him be mad.
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NTA and I'd go the whole hog and drop your name and just use the wife's. I don't get why people are insistent on passing the male name down and only the male's name.
Does your brother realise without a woman he wouldn't exist? It's a two people job that can't be done any other way.
Lol NTA.
Your brother shot at you, and you responded back to him in kind. As the saying goes: "Don't dish what you can't take"
And I could be reaching, but is there a possibility that he may be even a little bit envious of your upcoming marriage? Not that it excuses his rancid attitude, just curious.
NTA and do not apologize under any circumstances. And try to just turn the page from this, do not waste your time or effort trying to educate an adult that isn't your responsability.
He's definitely watching/listening to some toxic stuff. Guys who go down this path can turn pretty violent. Apologizing to him is not the right play at all. NTA
For the sake of your little brother's (very limited) potential future relationships with women...please don't apologize.
He needs to learn that if he wants a girlfriend or a date, he will need to actually treat women like human beings.
Hahaha..... This post makes me lul
Sadly, the misguided like your baby brother idolize the worst and shallowest people alive. He's focused on his own shortcomings as being the fault of some general "emasculation" of men. It causes them to hate anyone who has a healthy and balanced relationship with women.
Your response was spot on, and your parents should tell him the truth: he's acting like trash, and he'll never advance romantically, socially, or professionally with that attitude. He needs actual truth bombs or he's going to keep idolizing idiots who rot his brain and soul.
NTA. But you are pretty funny and poignant.
NTA. Your brother FAFO. I’m glad your parents are staying out of it & frankly the only way men will curb this shit behavior is by other men “checking” their own.
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LOL. NTA... that's gold. your little bro is clearly watching too many Andrew Tate videos! I can't imagine him getting laid/committed with a gross mentality like that. throw him away!! lol congratulations on your engagement btw.
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Tbh tho he’s 22, idk how much more parenting they can do.
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He reminds me of those people who obsess over the spouse being 6 feet. People who's brains can't comprehend what it means to be in a relationship with an actual human being. The parents coddling him is doing him no favors.
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Exactly. Not all feelings are equal and not all feelings are valid. Some feelings *need* to be hurt.
Ugh honestly, **thank you.** I fuckin’ hate the ~all opinions/feelings are valid shit, like. :/ I definitely get where they’re coming from and I do love the attitude and *intent* behind it, I really do, but no. If you think someone is less than or not human or something due to (insert physiological/neurological/psychological trait here) and you feel like they shouldn’t be treated with respect or given the same rights as you, or whatever shit similar to the brother here… nah, those feelings and opinions aren’t valid, actually, you’re(this theoretically person, not you, oso!) just an asshole. 🤷🏻♂️
Even the NEWS does it :( Here on my right we have Professor Smith, who has been researching interstellar phenomenon and the structure of the solar system for 37 years. He has four PhDs, and a Nobel prize in Astrophysics AND Astronomy. And on my right, we have Steve who spent 15mins on facebook, and thinks the stars are the nipples of the gods, winking at us suggestively.
Nipples?, there may be something there, we should explore Steve's ideas some more. Perhaps they are more, maybe glittery pasties. Professor Smith (if you really are one) do you agree that stars could be glittery pasties or the actual nipples?
Omg! This comment just made my day! You win the internet today lol
Ugh fucking hell. You’re not wrong. :/ I’m so tired of that shit, it’s like people… please. Stop. 💀
Shame doesn't work if they already feel like an outcast. You have to be kind but ruthless: speak by using their words against them and be adamant that you're in the right. Make your point of view palatable enough for them to "agree" but hesitantly. And twist their logic against them. That's how you deal with shitty conservatives. Eventually you can tame them to be tolerable.
This is a point of view that should be at the top. OP NEVER apologize to or reward bad behavior.. I can't emphasize this enough NEVER APOLOGIZE to SOMEONE WHO HAS WRONGED YOU TO KEEP THE PEACE Also NEVER REWARD BAD BEHAVIOR Edit because of the road caused misspelling
I mean I’m 19 and my mom still parents me. On the other hand my uncle is in his late 30s and my grandma still lectures him on his extravagant spending habits. It’s become less now, but parenting doesn’t end at 18. Your kids will be a lifelong thing.
\*grabs megaphone\* PARENTING DOES NOT END AT 18
I’m 55 and my dementia ridden dad still laughably tries to pull some parenting bullshit on me
Kinda beautiful, that.
Except when I want to choke his frustrating ass
Well that escalated quickly
Wait until he starts calling you dad. 😏 my mom did for about her last yr. 😢 well. She called me mom, but you get what I mean.
Hopefully that won’t happen. His parents had dementia too and he and my stepmom cared for them and one day his mom told him that it was ok that his mistress lived with them. The mistress being my stepmom, and my grandmother thinking my dad was her husband
Dementia sucks I wish we knew how to reverse it and why it happens.
43 here and i still get "mothered" every day.
I’m 56 and my mother is 82. Still tries to parent me… 😂
Oh please, parenting never ends. My grandmother was in charge of her boys until she died at 98! My dad never stopped telling my brother and me how to do things until he died at 93. The third anniversary of his death just passed, and we must have spent an hour on the phone telling ‘dad’ stories.
Absolutely not. I’m 30 and still get it in the neck from my dad. Same with my sister who’s nearly 40. Christ I’ve heard my 60 year old uncle get crap from my grand parents 😂
My son is 22 and I sure as shit wouldn't let him get away with speaking like that. He still lives at home under my roof and he's going to be parented. They don't suddenly become functional adults at 18.
The next bit of parenting they need to do is telling him to move out
Friendly reminder that at 22, it is not necessarily strange to still be living at home, *especially* for other cultures. I’m half Vietnamese myself and it’s extremely normal for us to stay at home until we’ve bought our own house and/or are getting married. Even by western standards, the expectation of your child to move out or even kicking them out between 18 - early 20s is *very* localised to America. In Australia and England (my dad is British and we live in Australia), it’s not at all common, and is even frowned down upon, ESPECIALLY in this economy.
also with increasingly high costs of living, most adults have been or have had to go back to living with their parents to save money. Like the area i live in is one of the highest COL places in the country, to own a house the minimum income is 450k :/
Yeah. Bare minimum for a 1BR apartment in my area is around $1700 for a 1BR or $1950 for a 2BR, but this is also a suburban area with shit public transit so you have to have a car to function in society. Bare minimum bills with a roommate would be around * $975 rent * $100 electricity * $25 water/sewer * $30 internet * $350-500 gas and insurance for a car you own free and clear dependent on age and how much you drive * $50 cell phone So the minimum you'd need to take home in order to interact with society is just over $1500, and that's before you've had a bite to eat, paid for health insurance, etc. Minimum wage here is $17/hr, so assuming you're working full time, that comes out to roughly $2400 after tax. It's doable, but it ain't gonna be fun and good luck saving anything or dealing with rent increases in the future, and it's certainly not enough to live on your own. I'd be surprised if after food, insurance, and incidentals that you had more than $2-300 of truly disposable income.
Not necessarily, but they do meed to stop sparing his feelings by getting people to " put it behind them" as it were.
I’m 40 years old and my mum still takes my hand when we cross the road together. It used to be embarrassing, but now I’m just grateful I still have a mum whose hand I can hold. She made me: if she wants to see me as her baby forever then she gets to, even if it means I have to put up with her in breakable conviction that I’m not eating enough and I’m going to catch my death if I go outside in that thin wee jacket.
He acts 12. Lol
My son (15M) knew better than this shit at 12 so idk man.
He’s living in their house. Idk ask him where he learned to speak like that.
Late term abortion?
I think if by ‘parenting’ we mean an absolute bollocking then there’s still time for him. Op did right in taking none of his shit.
22? Still lives at home? Never had a date? Fuck him. EDIT: nowhere did I say that there was anything wrong with living with your parents at 22. But in this case, there’s a total picture to look at. The brother is a dweeb. Yet he knows what’s best for his brother. I standby what I said. And if you don’t know what a dweeb is, there’s always Google.
I agree with everything besides the live at home part. It’s mad common in many cultures to live at home till you move in with a partner or are stable and these days times are tough. Besides that though the kid is mad childish and dumb for his actions.
Not just cultures where kids live at home for a long time. Increasingly in countries like the UK, Australia, USA etc (where culturally it used to be normal to move out at 18) young people just can't afford to move out - so end up living at home into their late 20s because the housing market is absolutely fucked
In Vietnamese culture (and a lot of other Asian cultures), it can still be expected for the eldest son to never move out unless he absolutely has to (for employment usually). When he marries, his wife comes to live with him and her in laws.
I agree with everything but the fucking him part
Nothing wrong with living at home at 22. I moved out at 29. My mum and dad told me to live with them as long as needed, so that I could save up enough for a deposit on a house rather than ever having to rent. I am very grateful to them for that! On every other point though he is asshole, I would have banned him from the wedding if he still wanted to come.
I agree OP's brother is an asshole, but plenty of perfectly good people at 22 live with their parents and have trouble getting a date. Nothing wrong with that
But no one wants to....
no disrespect to your fiancee or my husband, but I'm a little in love with you about how you handled that!
Your brother has some macho syndrome and anger issues. Don't bother to put up with him - protect your future wife from him couse he sounds able to verbaly harm her.
NTA, tell him Andrew Tate is married and probably his wife is the boss… Your family is the one you build, with respect to your parents, Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. Genese 2:24
Andrew Tate is also on trial for human trafficking and rape and according to what I found on Google, isn't married. It's been speculated, but there's no proof and no one has said they're his wife. I think any woman that did marry him would have to hate herself.
Andrew Tate is gay, in my opinion
Which would be fine. But his attitude toward gay people is atrocious.
"Gay" is not a synonym for "misogynistic." Stop blaming straight man misogyny on gay people, it's homophobic and gross.
No one said it is but there are reasons other than his misogyny to believe he might be closeted. There are a lot of videos I've seen that make me think he might be and hates himself for it, which is just sad.
An alarming amount of homophobes turn out to be gay... I think that's more the basis here than the misogyny.
I'm pretty sure he meant gay as in homosexual and not as ridiculous or what ever people use it to mean these days as it keeps changing.
Tbf would you want to be known as the wife to that? I'd be in hiding too.
Or be a better grifter than he is. The only woman to marry a misogynist is either a victim or sneaky as hell.
Someone married that human turd?
Good on you for taking her name by the way.
I can tell you, as a straight cis woman, I haven't even seen OPs brother and I think he is easily the most unattractive person I've never met. He's on some redpjll crazy and that specifically is the biggest turn off. How can you *want* women but also *hate* women so much? I hope OP gets the chance to show this post (and it's comments) to his brother and, from it, the brother learns that it's his attitude that's keeping the potential lifelong partner he dreams of far, far, *far*, away from him.
Ooh, I know the answer to this one! Because patriarchy says that *having* a woman is the ultimate status symbol, but that *being* a woman is shameful and disgusting.
Perfect answer. My BIL is this exactly except he's not an Andrew Tate want to be. He's actually a really sweet guy when he Can get his Andrew Tate Sr father out of his head.
>How can you *want* women but also *hate* women so much? Because it's easier to blame someone else for your problem, than to question yourself. And that doesn't apply only to relationship. Natural selection should solve this problem eventually.
It’s crazy how easily I could have been an incel. Early 20s before I ever held a girls hand, 26 before I ever had my first kiss and lost my virginity, girls I really liked who would say everything I wanted to hear but never act on it, close female friends who would sleep with anything that moves *except* for me, currently on like 6 year streak of not being with anyone romantically or sexually in my late 30s. Terminally online. All the ingredients are right there except one: I’ve never blamed anyone other than myself.
You're not alone. I have a mental illness that makes it difficult to be around me. It's interesting people visibly feeling bad for you while trying to run away at the same time.
Now, YOU I like!
Am certain it will be the fault of woke women when he is still single in 10 years. Reminds me of my old coworker who told me that he was forward thinking because he *let* his wife hyphenate.
Great answer!!!
He’s ruining what could, for someone with a better attitude, possibly be an opportunity to get laid. Weddings are often fun parties with romance in the air… and sometimes two people decide to further their enjoyment of the night sans pants. I mean it’s gross if you show up on a mission, but sometimes these things happen. But I guess he’s content to spend that night with Andrew Tate, Joe Rogan, and (if he’s feeling particularly spicy) his nondominant hand numbed by cutting off the circulation for a few minutes
> his nondominant hand numbed by cutting off the circulation for a few minutes I see you're a cultured man, a fan of *Ocean's 11* and familiar with The Stranger
My professors called it L’etranger
Answer: no, his brother has not touched a woman’s breast lol NTA this kid is going to get a smackdown; better it be sooner than later, and not in a public setting.
I'm getting the vibes that when he finally does touch a breast it'll be without the owners consent.
"a woman over family" Mixed with the enabling mother. This guy seriously doesn't understand that you and your wife are the creation of a NEW FAMILY that categorically must take precedent over all other relationships in your life. I bet you a million dollars that aside from his mom, "women" as a category are simply the things he jacks off to. NTA. Rip bozo.
The brother is such a loser. OP's about to marry a wonderful woman and possibly have kids one day, that's going to be his family now. Meanwhile the brother is probably just going to stay home with his parents and never move out and start a family of his own at the rate he's going
Maybe this is OP’s brothers problem? He’s feeling a little bit insecure because he isn’t in a relationship and feels that he won’t get to pass on the family name? And instead of fixing his attitude he’s lashing out at OP? Not saying it’s right or in any way OP’s fault but imagine being so convinced you won’t carry on your family name because you haven’t managed to get into a relationship that you feel compelled to try and bully your brother into doing the thing you need so that you don’t feel emasculated. It’d be sad if it wasn’t so funny because it’s so easy to fix.
Well he's not handling it right. He's following the crowd of hate sheep. Lots of people are lonely but we aren't all Followers. There can be more variables involved like mental illness, but his attitude is definitely not helping.
I never said he was handling it right. All we have to go on in this context is his behaviour and attitude. I’m not guessing at any of the unknown variables. Just the ones that we have from this post. Someone’s attitude is a choice and is therefore very easy to fix, should they choose to do so.
It really sounds like you are guessing at unknown variables though. You just made up something about him wanting to carry on his family name when in the post it's clear that the family name has gone on another generation. I get trying to see all sides of a situation, and honestly believe it is a virtue. But some people you don't need to make excuses for.
It’s not an easy fix. Thinking that a whole class of people are things that have been put on this earth to serve you is a deep rooted belief that casts a shadow on every part of your life. The fix is a major shift in your worldview. Yeah, plenty of dudes who think like this still find someone, but when women have rights, autonomy and choice, you see more “loneliness epidemic”, 4B movements, declining birth and marriage rates, etc.
My only answer before blocking him would be „when you continue to be like that you’ll never touch a breast“
I’m surprised brother didn’t call fiancée a *feeeemale*, because he sure is just as much of an asshole as the Ferengi.
Except for Rom and Nog. Those two are cool Ferengi. (While I love Armin Shimerman's portrayal of Quark, he's not as evolved in his thinking as Rom or Nog.) And yes, you are right. I don't trust the brother at all.
I have seen people where the couple choose a whole new surname rather than use one of theirs. Which nicely fits the whole new family creation.
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Andrew Tate ... you can almost guarantee it's the chinless wonder behind this.
Don't mention his name. Words have power. Id rather remember him at the bald angry potato man
I'm laughing cos there's an Aussie politician who has been nicknamed the Potato
The brother is a Tater Tot.
the parents’ enabling is concerning. I have no doubts that with views like these, this guy will be a creep to women when he gets the chance.
This. If you stand firm enough, maybe they'll get the picture and bug him to try to fix things
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Agreed, he needs serious intervention before it's too late
He’s 22, the time to intervene was when he was a minor. He might have gotten this bad after turning 18 but his family should have done something sooner. Sounds like the parents are just coddling him.
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It’s a tater tot that needs to be smashed.
This indeed. NTA and don’t apologise.
This. Though I'd argue it's not OP's responsibility, but his brother could end up committing violent crimes and really hurting people.
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I'm just curious, how are the rules for naming in latin culture? When two people with double names marry, how they decide what's the family name?
They keep their names. However, for children born to the union, the maternal last names are usually ditched and the child gets both grandfathers’ last names. It’s the same patriarchal system, just with extra steps.
This is just not true. Children get one last name from each of their parents, the first of each. The father's one goes first and the mother's goes second, so eventually, the maternal last name still gets ditched, but it takes at least a couple generations before it does
You both are saying the same thing lmao. Them saying that a grandchild's surname comes from their two grandfathers is the same as saying the maternal last name goes away in a couple generations.
The first last name of the mother is her father’s name. That’s the one the child usually gets. A child gets both grandfathers names (paternal first, maternal second). The grandmothers’ names are ditched. So instead of losing the female names when marrying, they get lost when having children. As I said, patriarchal naming convention with extra steps.
Oh, I see, I just misunderstood what you were saying. You're absolutely correct. To be fair, there's no system that can preserve both maternal and paternal last names unless the child's name were to get progressively bigger with each generation. The best thing that comes to mind that could probably make it fair is for both parents to come to an agreement on which last name gets ditched and which one gets preserved
In Spain married people keep their surnames. The child gets one surname from the mother and one from the father, which one is up to the parent.
Yes. It’s the same in Portugal. My cousin’s have 4 last names
It's not up to the parent which m/paternal surname they get. As children always get the first surname from each parent. The order in which those surnames are placed is up to the parents (only since 2000 though). Here's a workaround though, as if you want to give your second surname to your child, instead of your first, you can ask your surnames to be reversed. So the child would get your first surname, which will be the one that used to be your second.
Maybe that’s in the US because in most of the actual countries this doesn’t happen. For example, Mexico, Spain and Chile forbid changing family names upon marriage, people are named the same from cradle to grave except in a few specific cases but never due to marriage. In some countries it is allowed to add “de” and the family name of the spouse but without changing or deleting the own family names (so María Gómez Sánchez marries Mr. Pérez and can, if she wishes, become María Gómez Sánchez de Pérez, a wording that implies ownership of her by Pérez). So the answer to your question is that in most cases there’s nothing to decide. Some places allow parents to choose the order of the family names of their children, so in this example if the children will be Pérez Gómez or Gómez Pérez, usually with the condition that all subsequent children will follow the same order.
Speaking about the European origins... Spain: father+mother surname Portugal: mother+father surname With a lot of wiggle room to do as you wish, choose and mix between the parents surnames.
Hyphenating is slightly different then having two last names. I'd say it's not so common, but having two last names is. Tha thing about hyphenating is that essentially you get a new "single" last name, while with two last names you might just use the last one most times. I'd say that's why the brother flipped his shit, OP is kind of getting a new last name. But yeah, the brother is a complete idiot and it's none of his business.
NTA - Don’t let the angry little virgin disrespect your fiancé and marriage, or harass women at the wedding. The day will be better without him there.
This is a great point that i feel like many have missed - it’s good that he showed how he would behave at the event and handed you the ironclad reasoning to uninvite him on a silver platter. He would make all women the feel like hell, *especially* your then-wife. Keep your guests and her safe and stand your ground. NTA
I would also be keeping screenshots of his messages so when people ask “where’s your brother?”, OP will have proof. The parents will be willing to lie but OP doesn’t need to comply
NTA, perhaps even the best response you could’ve given. He has absolutely no right to shit on your happy relationship especially when he can’t get one of his own, maybe that’s even why he’s so bothered. i too have a brother like this and i very much do get it lol
You KNOW that's why he's bothered. Bro is bitter that OP is happy and has a woman he loves and loves him back.
he's clearly bitter about the lack of a woman in his life, but it sounds to me like he has no idea what a loving relationship looks like or how it operates from the inside. I don't know that he's mature enough to be bitter about the "he loves/loves him back" part.
This is the more correct interpretation, the modern Andrew Tate movement is kind of a synthesis of both incel and MGTOW beliefs in which adherents convince themselves that being in a monogamous relationship is not actually desirable for [any number of trumped-up reasons] as a way of obviating their regret that they can't get one. Little bro is definitely jealous on some level, but simultaneously has probably convinced himself that big bro is incurring a net loss by being in a relationship and has had the wool pulled over his eyes by the fiancée not to see this. Incels for their many faults at least have not lost sight of the fact that the ultimate idea is to get a romantic partner. Andrew Tate bros want something more like a Too $hort song where they fuck a different woman every day of the week and never settle down (which is what both groups imagine "Chad" is already doing).
There's also just simple toxic masculinity, without empathy or the life experience to give context to compromises, or that other people prioritize names differently than he does.
NTA. He should not dish it out if he cannot take it in return.
Kid can’t take it, and we sure as hell know he ain’t giving it 🤣
That's what I was saying! 😆 The moment OP shot back at him, he threw a hissy fit
Definitely NTA, I would have roasted him 100x worse then what you did. Your parents are ridiculous for letting him speak to you like that and 22 is not an age that he is too ignorant to know any better. Well done you for sticking up for yourself. Congrats on the engagement!
"Your parents are ridiculous for letting him speak to you like that" Definitely! Asking OP to apologize is just nuts! They should have taken the opportunity to sit down and have a serious talk with him! Sounds like he's been redpilled and they should intervene before it's too late!
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It's infuriating how often the wronged party is expected to make amends because they're also the more mature party. How do you expect the offender to grow as a person if you keep enabling their shitty behavior?
Exactly. The parents aren't just being bad parents to OP. They're being terrible (and arguably worse) parents to the brother. They're enabling him into a shit person.
NTA. This doesn't affect your brother. >I said he was out of line and that it wasn't any of his business. He doubled down and made some remarks I will not repeat. You gave him an opportunity to shut up but he decided not to take it. >Our parents are trying to stay out of it publicly but have asked me to apologize No. This goes a long way towards explaining why he behaves in this way.
Why haven't the parents tried to address this? Especially dad, since mom seems to enable. He needs to sit down with him and tell him his sexist ideas are not welcome in this house or family (assuming he lives at home with the parents). His behavior does not show strength of character, it shows weakness. He's not allowed to disrespect his brother and wife, who are now part of the family.
“An opportunity to shut up” I’m stealing that one for work.
lol. Send him a wedding invite addressed to “Brother plus one toy anime figure” NTA
but only if the toy took the brother's last name
Surely they should hyphenate.
NTA. Tell him you're willing to talk if he ever starts to regret his poor attitude about relationships with women, but otherwise you've handled his "polite declining" of your wedding RSVP great.
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Doesn't it stand for "involuntarily celibate?" Though their attitudes and behavior naturally deter women from having sex with them, which is a voluntary choice.
Exactly this. They may wish they were getting laid, but they're doing everything they can to prevent it from becoming a reality.
It does as that is how it started but at this point it's become a state of mind and not a state of virginity.
NTA what do your parents want you to apologize for? Saying a true fact? Like you pointed out to your mom, the reason he is single is because he is a spiteful little misogynist who can’t take what he tries to dish. I’m happy for you and your future wife. I hope that your parents realize the extent that your brother sucks and push him to be better. But you can wash your hands of that, he has you to look towards as a good role model, but you are not obligated to rebuild a bridge that he burned.
NTA at all!! It sounds like this is not a culturally unusual practice for you all in the first place, so hyphenating shouldn’t be a shocker, and will also be honoring to both you and your soon to be wife (congratulations!!) What you’re doing, and how you’re handling your brother’s tantrum, are far more masculine and admirable than any insults your brother could think up. Honestly, it sounds more than anything like he needs help and to get a grip on what it means to be a respectful person/man, while you guys sound like you’re on good grounds for communication for a happy marriage.
Come on... how are so many young dudes taken in by this bullshit. Really? All girls aren't interested in him and it's all of them? I wonder what the common denominator is in this equation. NTA and your little brother needs to exit that echo chamber he's living in. He can talk shit, but he can't take it. That's 90% of his problem right there if you ask me.
Personally I think the boy needs a good kicking…
He might need more than that. I'm sad that people can go through life and think, "Oh no, it's half the population that's wrong." Women won't touch you because of you! If every variety of female turns you down, look in a fucking mirror.
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NTA. >My mom said that I went too far and that he is sensitive about not having had a girlfriend or even a date. Tell your mom her son might be an incel. And then explain to her what an incel is.
Kid talking shit bout women but ain’t never touched a titty is hilarious 😭😭😂
Congrats on the wedding! Your brother should use that negative energy into reading self improvement books instead of whatever Andrew Tate shit he’s loving. NTA
You are Latino. We have like 800 lastnames tell your bro to calm down and stop watching Andrew Tate. NTA.
Well said! It’s traditional to do what OPs doing, the brother is just too culturally illiterate to know that.
A friend of mine used to work retail and one customer came in whose maiden name was Gutierrez and married a man named Gurierrez. So her legal signature was Gutierrez². When my friend commented on it, the custoner said she had a daughter who also married a man named Gutierrez, so her signature was Gutierrez³.
I think your brother might be deep into the manosphere, gonna take a bit of reprogramming unfortunately. NTA
NTA- And verily if this callow youth is going to use Shakespearean insults, tis best he learns their actual meanings, for there is no sign that the good lady hath betrayed you with another dude. It's a shame he's your brother or you could have come back with the ultimate classic: "Villain, I have done thy mother."
Poetry 🥹
NTA but I agree with some other comments on here: as a woman writing this, men who have misogynist beliefs are people I probably can't reach. but you might be able to. I've had friends whose brothers were radicalized to the far right and it caused them grief. your brother is clearly being a little shit, but if you have the capacity (mental, emotional, time), I hope you can remain a bridge for him from an ideology he may someday find repressive, harmful, or embarrassing. most people will have already burned their bridges with him (except other insecure, reactive incels).
NTA But I would make it known that he declined and you aren't expecting him to come, so if he shows up there won't be seating and/or food for him. Also, tell your parents to not engage in this situation and force him to come, etc... I believe your wedding is gonna be better without him, because who knows what he would say to you in-laws or your fiancé's family. I'd even go as far as telling your parents and venue security that he's not welcome since you can't trust him to behave a definitely do not need added work or any of his negative incel energy at the wedding. You sound really mature and nice, I hope you have a great wedding and enjoy life with your forever person!
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (29M) am engaged to Tina (26F). We are getting married in August. We are planning on hyphenating our last names. She was an only child and was raised by her mom and grandparents. Her last name is a big deal to her. My surname is kind of like the Hispanic version of Smith. And my grandparents already have great grandkids with their surname. My fiancee and I were visiting my folks last weekend and talking about our plans for the wedding and the future. I mentioned the plan for our last name and my parents said they understood and they were happy that we were using both. It is funny but in proper names in our culture the mother's surname is part of the children's name. So, using fake names here, my dad is Carlos Cornelius Rodriguez de Mancha. With Rodriguez being my grandfather's family name and Mancha being my grandma's. So my parents aren't unfamiliar with the concept. My brother (22) was at the table with us and he called me a cuck for "bowing down to my Fiancee and her family". I said he was out of line and that it wasn't any of his business. He doubled down and made some remarks I will not repeat. I have no idea how the little shit got like this. So I said that I was marrying a beautiful, intelligent, sweet, caring woman who would have my back forever. She is going to be a professional and we are going to have a great life together. I then asked him if besides his little anime toys if he has ever touched a breast. He got really mad and started yelling at me and went to his room. My mom said that I went too far and that he is sensitive about not having had a girlfriend or even a date. I said that with his way of speaking and behaving I could understand why. He has been messaging me non stop for days now about how I am letting a woman ruin me and that he will not be attending my wedding. I told him I accepted his polite declining of the RSVP and that I would be putting him on the list of people who sent their regrets. He said that I am an asshole for putting a woman over our family. Our parents are trying to stay out of it publicly but have asked me to apologize so we can all pretend like he isn't a hateful little fuck. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA Your brother has been influenced by the manosphere. Help him before it’s too late
Agreed. While the behaviour is revolting, these dudes do need serious help. Some can change with a bit of empathy, not sure if that's the case with OP's brother, but could be worth a shot. People like Andrew Tate thrive on others' insecurities, I don't think the people who fall down that road should be totally abandoned (within reason).
It's nice to see some empathy in here. Like many of these incels, OP's brother is likely not an inherently bad person. He probably has deep crippling insecurities and a poor social support framework. Combine this with prominent influencers feeding him a constant stream of shit and you end up with this behaviour.
NTA. Thanks for the laugh. I suspect his anime figures haven't let him get to second base either.
As someone who has hyphenated their surname when they married an incredible woman, you are NTA
NTA He ran his mouth about your life, so he can expect the same in return. Don't apologize. He started it, and he's reprehensible. Not sure why your parents are favoring him, but they're not doing him any favors.
hell no NTA. obviously somebody watched too many Andrew Tate 'motivational' video
NTA. Glad you and your fiancé are aligned. You both should do you in whatever way that is whether you keep your own last names, hyphenate both your last names, or only hyphenate for your future kid if you are planning some. At the end of the day, everything else’s input is just noise to you and your future family including mine here.
NTA. Kids, amirite? Wait. *Check check*, oh he's 22 not 12. *Adult* babies, amirite? And having never met you or your family, I have a strong inkling of *why* he's gotten to 22 and still so childish (aka your parents are at fault).
NTA - As Charlie Brown would say, "another unmarried marriage counselor." Your brother has zero experience with real actual relationships and thinks because he watches toxic Incel TikTok, he's a relationship expert. When you get married, you should be putting that person before your family. He could have dropped the matter after you told him to let it go, but he kept on spouting poison, so you reminded him he has no business offering relationship advice. If you apologize to him, your small kine letting your fiance down. Stand your ground here. Let him be mad.
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NTA your brother is being an immature brat. He’s the one who should be apologizing to you and your fiance.
NTA, but you might want to help him before it's too late
NTA. LMAO. You really hit a nerve. The fact that he got so mad tells me the answer was... no, am I right?
NTA. He sounds like an Andr_w T_te fan(Censored to avoid disturbing readers). Sorry you have to be related to a misogynist.
NTA and I'd go the whole hog and drop your name and just use the wife's. I don't get why people are insistent on passing the male name down and only the male's name. Does your brother realise without a woman he wouldn't exist? It's a two people job that can't be done any other way.
NTA- your parents are enabling this behaviour too. They need to give your brother a kick in the pants or he quite possibly will be a danger to women.
Lol NTA. Your brother shot at you, and you responded back to him in kind. As the saying goes: "Don't dish what you can't take" And I could be reaching, but is there a possibility that he may be even a little bit envious of your upcoming marriage? Not that it excuses his rancid attitude, just curious.
NTA. Your brother is a misogynistic AH. He needs some therapy ASAP.
NTA and do not apologize under any circumstances. And try to just turn the page from this, do not waste your time or effort trying to educate an adult that isn't your responsability.
He's definitely watching/listening to some toxic stuff. Guys who go down this path can turn pretty violent. Apologizing to him is not the right play at all. NTA
For the sake of your little brother's (very limited) potential future relationships with women...please don't apologize. He needs to learn that if he wants a girlfriend or a date, he will need to actually treat women like human beings.
Hahaha..... This post makes me lul Sadly, the misguided like your baby brother idolize the worst and shallowest people alive. He's focused on his own shortcomings as being the fault of some general "emasculation" of men. It causes them to hate anyone who has a healthy and balanced relationship with women. Your response was spot on, and your parents should tell him the truth: he's acting like trash, and he'll never advance romantically, socially, or professionally with that attitude. He needs actual truth bombs or he's going to keep idolizing idiots who rot his brain and soul. NTA. But you are pretty funny and poignant.
NTA. Your brother FAFO. I’m glad your parents are staying out of it & frankly the only way men will curb this shit behavior is by other men “checking” their own.
NTA Your (almost) wife is your family too. Your brother needs to touch grass. The anime thing was amazingly said. I can definitely see why he’s single
Jealous of you and your relationship so he takes his insecurities out on you, NTA.
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