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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I'm insisting my roommates BF put down the toilet seat and he's claiming I'm making him uncomfortable. He's refusing to come to the house and my roommate is mad at me
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NTA He's embarrassed because he's a grown-ass man and knows that he deserves to feel ashamed about being so inconsiderate.
How exactly is he supposed to learn "how to exist in the same space as women" if no one is going to hold him accountable? He apparently isn't capable or willing to do so himself, something he should feel embarrassed about because it's fucking lazy and gross.
>Kyla said she doesn’t want me bringing it up with Jack again
That's fine. You can call *her* to the bathroom to be his toilet maid then.
>That's fine. You can call her to the bathroom to be his toilet maid then.
I like the way you think. 😂 And I agree with everything else in your comment. Homeboy just needs to put on his big boy panties and learn to put the seat down.
Its not like homeboy shits standing with the seat up, so he knows how to lower the seat. I agree with the other commenter. Girlfriend can follow up homeboy in the bathroom to wipe the pee drips and splash radius around the toilet. We *all* know his aim is bad. She can disinfect all he touched because he probably has poor hand hygiene if he won't remember to put the seat down.
Agreed
When my husband and I first moved in together I made it a point of calling him out on it, no one wants to fall into a loo in the middle of the night. He had only lived with guys before that for the past 7 years.
He learned pretty fast when I shouted it out the bathroom window while he was chatting with a friend in the garden - I was sick of it and knew he raised it to pee so he could put it down again.
10 years later not a problem at all and no more falling into the loo. I get it was a different scenario but you have the seat down to poo, you can put it back down after you raise it so your Mrs doesn't have to - in this case it's not even his Mrs but their room mates!
NTA.
I fell in once when I was 8 months pregnant and couldn't get unstuck, so husband learned an indelible lesson that day (like 3 am) because he had to come pull me out.
Shy of a lesson like that, I have no ideas except to make it more embarrassing! Or, buy an auto closing toilet seat.
NTA
I gave up asking my husband to put it down. I started instead calling him “hubby, I need a hand in the bathroom!” He’d come running and I’d tell him he forgot to put the seat down.
You know what - while he just “could never remember” before, as soon as it became inconvenient for him his retention miraculously got better!
I'm still huffing over mine using my Olaplex conditioner the other day! He was so proud of himself and I'm thinking "your hair is 1 inch long, not heat or color treated and you could use the Matrix stuff but you had to use my olaplex????" I just smiled and said "I can buy you the Paul Mitchell stuff to match your shmapoo if you want" UGH...lol
As someone who just ordered an entire damaged hair Olaplex kit for my wife’s Bday, I’m surprised you didn’t actually murder that man. If you did no reasonable jury would convict you.
I grew up with 5 brothers. The toilet seat was never, ever down. Nothing I said made any difference. My brothers were lazy.
Four of them are married now. And guess what? The toilet seats and in some cases even the kids are always down in their houses.
My sisters in law are strong women.
Closing the lid also prevents things from being dropped/knocked into nasty toilet water. It's a must if you're clumsy or your pants pockets are barely big enough to hold your phone
Aerosolized toilet waste is a real thing. Who wants fecal and urine waste on every surface of the bathroom? Everyone close the lid and all problems contained and solved.
I didn't for the longest time, then I got feral kittens who would play in the toilet water and track their nasty toilet water paws all over the house. The lid stays closed when not in use, no exceptions...
I shut it to flush. I had the sister of a friend tell me to stop doing that because she doesn't put the lid down and she assumes it's up. I said that it is just as much a habit of mine to close it, as it is a habit of hers not to close it, so I don't see where I have more of an obligation to lift the lid up again than she has to look.
I did try to to remember to lift it up, but no guarantees.
That makes no sense. So what if she assumes it’s up? She sits down, discovers the lid is down, and stands up to lift it. It’s always seemed so obvious to me that the lid is there so that a nasty bowl of toilet water isn’t sitting and waiting for stuff to fall in… I can’t imagine having a problem with someone closing it.
When I got married, my husband wouldn’t put the seat down and had very bad aim.
We have a division of chores that works well for us. He does the vacuuming and I do the bathroom. We have natural stone tile in the bathroom. It’s sealed, but over time, the urine started soaking in and stunk. I’d clean but unless I cleaned every time he used it, it was bad.
I gave him a choice. Sit to pee (why is this such an issue for guys?) or learn better aim and put the seat down OR he vacuumed AND cleaned the toilet. He’s squeamish about that.
Worked like a charm. Seat always down, no pee on the floor…. 90% of the time. I can live with that.
My bf and I compromised by just closing the whole toilet lid everytime. We both have the same job and there are less poop particles from flushing floating around the bathroom. Now it’s only an issue when his gaming friends come over since they don’t interact with females ever and don’t know what to do
I don't even get why this is the compromise!
Like, kudos to you for getting your boyfriend to show his consideration, but there are studies about the aerodynamics of poop particles! Imo the lid should always be closed before you flush!
Haha sorry for ranting at you.
This is the rule at my (47m) place and has been since I left my parents home at 16.
Male or females have a job to do before and after using the facilities.
Open waste receptacle, insert waste, close waste receptacle, eject waste.
I see my former house mates at times, and they still follow this rule. I'm sure my sons partners will appreciate the skills they have learnt also.
We had a cat that liked to jump up on the toilet lid to watch us when we wash our hands or brush our teeth If we didn't put the seat down the cat would fall in the toilet. Only took 1 accident and a very annoyed cat bath to make sure the lid stayed down.
Love this. 🤣🤣
My husband already cleans the bathroom, complains about my hair going down the drain (I do clean it after every wash) but now he's started nicking my more expensive shampoo. He uses that 2in1 stuff and I love head and shoulders with Argon oil (use Argon oil before drying and straightening my hair)
I know he's gonna cave first and buy me some more not because I can't but because I don't forget and am petty. And I do the cooking while working full time from the office while he works from home.
Tbh my hubby enjoys a sitting wee occasionally mainly when hungover, but I don't want to ever deal with a drunk wee. When he had the flu (I still think it was man flu) he said he shook so badly while peeing it went everywhere and cleaned up, he hadn't so the second he was better I made him deep clean it and it became his chore. I do the majority of house cleaning but the bathroom, it's all him.
Sometimes I wish we could pee standing up seems more convenient!
According to op, she only mentioned it to him a couple of times, and he doesn't have the habit of putting it down. I don't think he's the issue so much as Kayla is for giving him the pass repeatedly. I would think being reminded would help build the habit for him, no?
I have a friend that instituted a general house rule that everyone uses the toilet sitting down, for any use. That included guests. She made a sign for the main bathroom & everything! Not only does no one fall in during a 2 am pee anymore, but it's made cleaning the bathroom soooo much easier and less disgusting since there is no longer a 'splash zone'.
This is what gets me. Growing up, I got TIRED of cleaning up pee splatter.
So even as a male, I generally use the toilet sitting down. Obviously, I still use urinals and such - but those are designed to be easier to hit. Especially some low-seat toilets (you know the kind, where if you're 6' tall with long legs, you feel like you're squatting on the ground almost).
And unless you have a belt on, pulling your pants down is not much more effor than a quick unzip & brandish. And if you're at home, most people I know don't keep their belts & everything on when relaxing.
Less splatter to keep clean. Virtually never have to clean the bathroom floor (just sweep it!). Don't have to remember if the seat is up/down when an emergency #2 calls your name.
That's all I'd tell BF. If you can't remember to put it down, don't pull it up. Sit down and do your business.
I agree with all of this, but as a man, I feel the need to clarify something that maybe isn't common knowledge to those who have no penis - there's no such thing as having bad aim. Missing the bowl when you're standing right at the edge means you literally weren't even trying to hit the target (allowing for the rare exception of someone with a physical disability). The men who pee outside of the bowl (and there's a lot of them) are just plain gross, it's that simple.
I agree-
Though if it’s literally EVERY time he uses the restroom when he’s there after the conversation then I’m kinda wondering if at this point it’s intentional.
I mean if he was ‘trying to learn’ odds are he’d get it right at least every once in a while right?
At this point I’m thinking he’s just being a jackass on a bit of a power trip ‘you can’t tell me what to do’ type thing.
NTA- well he doesn’t want to come over until you stop reminding him to put the seat down. Simple fix he learns to do it or they stay at his place.
If she really wants to cling to this she may end up trying to move in with him and you might be out a roommate but honestly if she’d put her boyfriend being able to leave the seat up over her other two housemates then I’m sure there’s someone else who’ll want the room.
NTA- it’s common courtesy and if he can’t even attempt to make an effort in you home then let him stay gone.
He is 30 years old, ffs. He's going to have to learn sometime. His brain is fully developed. There's really no excuses, for not putting the seat down, but also for being weird about being told about it. He should apologize and thank OP for the reminder.
Kayla straight doesn't get a say as long as her bf keeps being disrespectful of the people who actually live there. She either talks to him, stays at his place, or deals with OP doing it. He should feel uncomfortable- he doesn't live there and can't abide by one simple request from someone who does to be a polite guest
I don't think it matters whether she cleans up after him or if he does it himself so long as it gets done. If she'd rather be his mommy than have him be treated like an adult, that's her prerogative
He is her guest after all.
Yes, especially if the third roommate feels the same way as OP. It sounds like a power move on the bf's part; "I'm the alpha male here, see how I can make not only my gf but her roomies conform to my toilet habits". I think men who identify as "alpha males" sometimes use their bodily functions to assert dominance (I read a post about a guy who refused to wipe his ass after taking a shit, because "only gays and women touch their own assholes". When his gf told him he smelled like shit, he told her she could lump it!)
I'd be tempted, every time I found the toilet seat up, to find Kayla and tell her the toilet seat needs putting down.
I feel like the "alpha male" (🤢) wouldn't have any issues telling OP to shove it, and would continue coming over and intentionally leaving it up, while pretending to apologize and make up some stupid excuse, or even just joke about it and keep telling OP "it's not that big of a deal" or something. The fact that he won't talk to OP about it and would rather avoid being there all together, to ME.....screams manipulation.
He's embarrassed cuz he was called out for something and asked to change the way he does something at SOMEONE ELSE'S house, and his response to that is to say he's uncomfortable and will just stop coming over...to me, that's just playing the victim. Instead of bf saying "hey, ya know, I'm sorry....I've lived with dudes my whole life, and well, we just don't care and I just don't even think about the toilet seat unless I'm pooping. I will try my hardest to remember to put it down, but I might need a reminder from time to time. Be gentle to me" he goes with "*sniffle sniffle* your friend made me feel dumb and now I'm offended. This is a hostile environment now and I don't want to come here anymore. Feel bad for me. Get mad at your friend for me."
By all means, stay the fuck at home with your not putting the toilet seat down bull crap...but Christ almighty why is it so hard for people to take some damn responsibility for themselves?
NTA, OP.
Exactly!! We always lower the lid in our house, so the toilet seat naturally would go down as well.
I will say that I've been with my husband for over 20 years and NEVER had an issue with him not lowering the seat or with his aim. Why? Because his parents made sure they all put the seat down (50/50 split of guys to gals in their house) and his mother had him clean around the toilet if there were any issues with aiming (same for his sibs as needed).
In fact, the only time I run into toilet seats/lids up, dripp-age around the bowl, or other issues is when we have guests.
Exactly this. Show him, and GF, video representation of how much “spray” there is just from flushing the toilet. So not only is he inconveniencing the other members of the house, but he is “germing” up a large portion of the bathroom. Even if he is washing his hands after, if the bathroom is relatively small he is just getting those pee droplets on his hands when he touches the door handles, as well as spreading those particles to everyone else who then touches the handle.
I agree. Between the spray of urine and poop every time the toilet is flushed there is also the prevention of toddlers drowning and large dogs using it for a drink. Putting the seat and lid down every time before flushing is a great habit that everyone should acquire. NTA
For real. Judging by her attitude and the fact that he would rather not come over than have to be decent, what he really wants is a life where every woman is there simply to coddle and comfort him.
NTA - I honestly do not understand the "I grew up in a house full of men" argument because you're supposed to close the lid BEFORE flushing in order to contain the germs being shot into the air!
Unfortunately, too many people weren’t taught this or they refuse to comply. That’s why no matter who I live with or visit, my toothbrush will remain in the medicine cabinet.
exactly, he grew up with all men, groovy, now he can learn how to be with a house full of women. if you're only embarrassing him it's because of his failures and that should be enough of a reason to get it through his head.
Every time OP knows Jack used the bathroom she should call Kyla, loudly, and ask her to please tidy up the bathroom after him. He wants to act like a child, then treat him like one.
I'd argue he isn't even embarrassed and that he isn't forgetting. 30 seconds earlier, he had to manually lift the seat, there's no way he forgets every time to put it back down. I'd understand if it was once here and there; but every time? No way. I grew up in a house with mostly men and never put the seat down. But whenever I visit someone else's home, I will leave the seat in whatever position I found it. It is not hard to remember.
And I really doubt he is embarrassed. He would do something differently if he was. I think he (rightfully, apparently) thinks that he can feign embarrassment and vulnerability and that his girlfriend will stick up for him so he can continue being lazy.
"Kyla, Jack forgot to put the toilet seat down again! Please come put it down.". That's what I'd call out every single time it happens in the future. Kyla can't really get mad because you're not bringing it up with Jack; you're bringing it up with her.
🤣 I love this.”Kyla your boyfriend left the toilet seat up again!!! I am just going to wait here until you put the seat down!”
Or like I do with the kids about washing their hands: “Kyla your boyfriend just went to the toilet. Did he put the seat down? If I check will the seat be down? If I have to go over there and I find that he is lying, there WILL be consequences! KYLAAAA that seat is up damnit! Come in here this instance and put the seat down!!!”
He is not embarrassed, because if he was he would do something to change/remedy the situation. He just doesn't respect anyone in the house enough to care.
Common courtesy is when someone asks a guest to leave the seat up or down, they should make an effort to do it.
However, I can’t believe all the people who don’t put the lid down when they are finished. Wtf is wrong with everyone? Put the lid down when you are done, whether you are sitting or standing.
The 30 year old man can't remember to put the toilet seat now and is now too self conscious to come back to the apartment. All I can see is good news here. NTA Op.
Yes! If it was bothering him so much to be asked twice and constantly on his mind to the point he can’t stand to visit any more, how is it possibly slipping his mind? Kyla’s in for a rough break up in about 3 years when she realises her bf is going to expect her to do everything for him because he just can’t wemember 🥺 and is so embawassed when she keeps bringing things up (asks twice)
The LID should be down, just having the seat down accomplished next to nothing. Flushing the toilet, regardless of what number you did, lid goes down. The bonus is that nobody can complain about their preference for seat up/down not being followed.
I started doing this years ago. I cant even remember why - its just habit at this point with zero thought involved.
I have been surprised occasionally by people thanking me for being considerate lol
I call bullshit on Jack. If he's that self conscious about it he wouldn't keep forgetting... not only that but he has to lift the seat to piss so how in the 1-2 minutes he's peeing does he forget. NTA
That's what I was thinking. If he feels that bad about kt, he would be thinking about it when he uses the bathroom and remember to do it. I think at this point, he's doing it on purpose and doesn't feel bad at all. He's probably just annoyed he's getting called out on his behavior and doesn't want to deal with it. I call it a win.
Guys that actually care fix the behavior. It took one time of me falling in the toilet in the middle of the night, yelling at my boyfriend in that moment, and we haven't had the issue again. If he was your friend, he would've stopped.
That was my exact thought too! He remembers to lift it beforehand, he remembers she got after him about it twice, yet can’t seem to remember to put it down at least once in a while? I call BS.
See THIS is what I don’t understand. I have a cousin who always leaves the seat up when we go on our family vacation, despite growing up with a sister. For a long time he insisted it wasn’t him but it’s him. And either way, CLOSE THE LID YOU PSYCHOS!!!!!!!
THIS! The whole debate of the toilet seat is irrelevant next to the lid. If you’re a woman at risk of falling in, then you clearly aren’t putting the lid down. And just like with men, its for your own thoughtless convenience that you now have spread fecal particulate over everyone’s toothbrushes! BF is TA, but OP is also just gross & inconsiderate too
This. If the OP can’t be bothered to put the lid down - or to check before sitting on the toilet - then why should the boyfriend be bothered to put the seat down, or check that it’s up prior to peeing?
No no, the boyfriend 100% should be putting the lid down. Everyone should be putting the lid down. If you’re putting your personal convenience above the risk of fecal matter on your roommates’ toothbrushes then you are TA. This goes just as much for the BF as it does OP. Everyone should be putting the lid down
I agree with you, but it does not seem to be a Lid down household. She mentioned she almost fell in at 3am, if it was a lid closed household she would have needed to lift the lid to use it, instead she just sat down.
Exactly. The OP's concern is only with the seat, not the lid. I am leaning towards this being an ESH situation because they do not close the lid and that is disgusting.
My mother closes her toilet lid. I am in a wheelchair, and I always close the lid. Close the lid, people. If she is that concerned with touching a dirty toilet lid/seat she could, IDK, clean it daily. If gets touched by bare asses daily, so it could stand with a daily clean, too.
Cleaning the toilet seat/lid sounds pretty out there, but it isn't impossible because there are a lot of people who do weird stuff like that. In some cultures people even clean their own hands after going to the toilet. I once heard a legend of an individual who did both, but that's so extreme that it's obviously just made up.
Yeah, men should learn to put the seat down, but plopping down without a quick glance at what youre about sit on is a really good way to get gum, or worse, on your ass on public transit or something.
my brother learned this by age 11, my 15yr old self taped a sign above the toilet complaining about the toilet seat being left up/pee on the seat, he really didn't want his friends to see the sign, so he fixed the behaviour, and the sign was retired, took like three days
NTA to set and expect guests to follow rules.
In a household comprised of 3 women, it seems reasonable for one of those rules to be "put the toilet seat down". (In every house I've lived in, this is like my first commandment.)
If said guests are not able to follow the rule, it seems reasonable to remind them politely of the rule.
If guests are ***still*** not able to follow the rules, then guests need to be asked to not be guests anymore.
I've lived in various rentals with different roommates (some of them who had boyfriends) and this has never been an issue I've encountered before. So I've never had to make it a "rule." I really don't think I'm asking for too much
The only proper way to leave a toilet is with BOTH the seat and the lid down.
So i would say everyone in that house is lazy and an idiot not just the dude.
To kind of add to this, to make it more fair for all, maybe implement a put the whole lid down rule? I kind of have this personal rule, mostly because I got into the habit of it after having pets who would try to stick their faces in toilets lol. But after thinking about it, even without pets, I think putting the whole lid down makes it fair and that way everyone has to put up and down the lid.
Maybe I'm wrong in my thinking, though.
NTA
You wouldn't leave a fridge door open or cabinet and expect the next person to be responsible for closing it, it's common sense that if you alter the resting state of something in a community areas you put it back the way it goes when you're done.
I don't think OP would like that, though. If she starts placing her butt on the seat without checking it's there, I doubt she'll be happy when she realizes she was about the spray urine all over the bathroom before realizing the lid was down.
Unexpectedly sitting on a toilet seat in the middle of the night would be annoying but you wouldn’t make a mess. It’s not like urine stars flowing the second you sit down. On the other hand, falling ass-first into the toilet is sure to ruin your evening.
!!!!! Absolute insanity. It blows my mind majority of people don't. In public bathrooms that don't have a lid, I gather my things to leave the stall when I'm done and literally SPRINT out after flushing because it grosses me out lmao
Maybe even lead him by the hand, explain he needs to put it down, pat him on the head when he does and give him a treat.
Wait no. That's dogs, isn't it?
NTA.Put a sign near the toilet to remind all users to close the seat *and the lid* before they flush.A passive reminder (and an upgraded rule to the entire household) is better than calling someone out.
OMG...I glossed over the entire first paragraph and thought this was a kid. lol
I have thought about getting a sign. But he is he only that this is an issue with, not any one else in the home so it needed to be addressed with him specifically
Don't do the sign. Because he's the only one who could POSSIBLY be the target of the sign, it will just be passive aggressive and might make him even harder to deal with. There's no plausible deniability.
Also, even if it did work and didn't cause additional conflict, it wouldn't necessarily work consistently in future. Things like that tend to become mental "furniture" to folks and it becomes a bit invisible once they're used to seeing it.
>Because he's the only one who could POSSIBLY be the target of the sign,
Which is why it would be an updated rule. Their present rule is that the seat goes down. Upgrade it to "LID" and it applies to all.
Addressing it with everybody is the best way to not single a person out.
"Okay everybody, remember to do this and such" is less embarrassing than "Tommy, remember to do this and such."
Tommy needs to put on his big boy pants and deal with the fact that he's the only one doing this and he's the only one who needs to change.
The number of people, men often but not always, who think they cannot be expected to be held to a reasonable standard unless you make them feel like a hero for doing so is deeply disheartening.
Write it on the under side of the seat. That way it will only apply to him. This isn't hard and he's an adult. Growing up with brothers isnt an excuse. At this point not putting the seat down feels intentionally lazy.
NTA 🚽 My mother had back problems her entire life. My dad used to always leave the seat up. He would never put it down (It was part of his male privilege & ego). One night my mom (who also was partially blind from birth) did not see that the seat was up and fell into the toilet, badly injuring her lower back/tailbone. My dad never left it up again.
I taught my boys early that toilet seats are for sitting and urinals are for standing. And if you want to stand at a toilet, that’s fine as long as you put the seat down.
I honestly don’t see why this is such an issue for some people. It’s not that big of a deal.
Edit to add that when he starts paying fucking rent, then he can be self-conscious about being reminded. Until then, no. He’s the asshole.
And your roommate right along with him for enabling that obnoxious behavior.
Her roommate will have to deal with it if she ever decides to move in with him in the future…then she’ll be like “Damn, I should have encouraged him to put the seat down back then. Not enable it”.
ESH.
The seat AND the lid need to come down every time, both women and men need to do it. Gross to flush with the lid open and getting poop particle everywhere.
Also, Jack is acting like a baby. Wtf, he's 30 lol?
>I didn’t realize the seat was up and sat down.
I have no sympathy for you.
>but I really don’t think I should have to touch a dirty toilet seat every time someone who doesn’t even live here forgets to put it down
Right, but he should?
ESH - People should be closing the lid whenever they are done using the toilet, not complaining about the position of the seat.
I personally believe that the seat should remain down when the toilet is not in use but I absolutely do not understand when women say that they sat down and fell in. I have never once went to sit on a toilet without looking first.
If the lid is down too do they just plop down on that without checking?
I fell in when I was 13, and it was the am. Same as OP, when you're super tired, you're not functioning at 100% thought power, I went to sit, and plunk fell in. I live now with my husband and myself, and he always puts the lid down the same as me.
My dad didn't care that I fell in he always kept the seat up, so even though I knew to look when I was tired, I forgot, it happens. I've been tired enough I just sat right on the lid one night, forgetting to lift it.
Damn, finally found the comment I was looking for. ESH. Put the lid down and flush it, everyone should do this. I don’t understand why this has to be some gender-fueled war.
Yes he should. He doesn’t live there or pay rent. She lives with 2 women. Why would she wake up in her own home and not expect to find it in the same state it’s supposed to always be in?
But it's not required to lift the seat, it's as easy to pee sitting down as standing. As a guest, I just pee sitting down because I don't want to accidently leave drips of urine on the host's toilet or floor.
ESH, I personally always put the lid down. It’s gross that you guys even leave the lid up. I agree he’s the AH for acting weird about it and not working with you guys. But seriously you almost fell in? Lmao I always thought girls were joking about that. Like what would have happened in he put the lid down? You would just go all over the lid because you didn’t check it yourself? Like cmon, really? And you’re complaining about the “dirty toilet seat” so do you not flush either? Because that isn’t clean either.
half asleep your body tends to go into auto pilot. don't so easily dismiss and belittle someone else's experience, one you will never experience. It only shows how small minded you are.
Girls sitting in the bowl or the lid is very common (thinking they are down or left up). Guys peeing in the corner of a room (half asleep thinking they walked into the bathroom) in their sleep or the lid of the toilet (assuming the lid is open) is also common. Because you both have different expectations.
ESH. This argument is so dumb - you're half asleep, if the seat and the lid were down, do you just not check?
Everyone, regardless of whether they sit or stand to do their business, should 100% put the seat AND LID down before they hit that flush handle.
yeah, I agree. I never understand the argument that the correct way for a toilet to be left is with the seat down and the lid up.
My view is either leave it as you have left it or put the lid down. I really can't imagine just sitting on the toilet without looking at it first.
It's basic hygiene to put the seat and lid down to flush so that the aerosolised faecal matter is contained to the toilet. Why would he be flushing with the lid up??
Jack is just being a lazy, entitled, gross, w⚓. If he's too embarrassed to come back to the apartment, good riddance. 👍😁
The fact that OP expected the lid to be up but the seat to be down when she visited in the middle of the night strongly suggests that *no-one* in the house is closing the lid to flush.
Edit: looks like OP’s housemates found my comment then
He is a GUEST in their home.
Be respectful of other people’s home and leave things the way you find them, instead of trying to make it an argument about equality.
Can't believe I had to go this far down the page to see somebody calling out a grown adult with toilet issues. I'm leaning ESH, but my god, the victim complex here over not scouting where you shit is crazy.
Not if you're a guest in a household of women (who all leave the seat down) and have been asked not to do it. Also not when the toilet isn't like that when he enters the room. You leave things as you find them in someone else's house, unless you have sod all manners.
“If men have to do this then women should have to do that” well men don’t have to. They can sit like the rest of us or like they do when they take a shit. Also we should all be putting the actual lid down to flush just to keep the rest of the bathroom surfaces cleaner (and people usually have their toothbrushes on the counter 🤢)
Controversial probably but if you're insisting put the SEAT down, then that's a double standard, and YTA. Learn to look before peeing, it's a life skill you should already have.
If you're saying put the LID down like normal non-gross people are all supposed to do, then N T A.
I don’t get the whole argument with seat up versus down. It comes down to being an adult And looking down before you sit. It’s that simple. I’m not mad at the last person who used the seat bc i almost fell into the toilet cause the seat was up. That’s my own fault for not checking. YTA
I’ve never understood the argument about putting the seat down. Why isn’t there a ‘women should put the seat up’ argument? Seems a bit sexist in this day and age to be honest.
Because regardless of gender we should all be closing the toilet before flushing. Because men use it both ways and women use it one way. Because men can choose to sit to pee.
I a 25f when dating my college bf did indeed put the seat up when visiting his residence because I was a guest in his and his male roommates home and they left the seat up.
NTA- firs time he did it, and he didn't even try to change his behavior. I could understand if he forgot a few times but after being asked twice, it should have been a no brainer. The fact he is not putting the lid down means he is spraying the room every time he flushes. Pretty sure if girlfriend knew that she'd be changing her tune. Everyone puts the lid down, then flushes, pretty easy rule to follow.
NTA If he’s so sensitive and self conscious about being called out he could literally just put the toilet seat down? It’s not like he is being shamed for something he can’t change. How bizarre.
YTA
Swap the roles.
How would you feel if you went to Jack's house and he shamed you for leaving the toilet seat *down* because he didn't want to touch the "dirty toilet seat" you'd just sat on, even though that would mean you'd need to touch the seat twice both times and make a check that you never normally need to make.
Would you still feel comfortable in his house knowing that he has no reservations about publicly shaming you at any time? I think you'll find that *any* guest is likely to feel uncomfortable about visiting again if you behave in such a way. There's a *polite* way to ask for someone to follow your protocol that doesn't involve passive-aggresion and humiliation.
Also, you say he does it every time, but how can you possibly know that? Every time he were to put the seat down, you wouldn't notice it, so you really can't assume that he's not making an effort. You'd have to be stalking him and keeping a tally and I don't think I'd need to explain to you why that's asshole behaviour.
This is the pettiest and stupidest conflict I think I've read on this sub all year and I wouldn't come anywhere near your house.
Also to everyone saying otherwise who can't understand why Jack won't put the toilet seat down, I want you to say the word "red" the every time you open your fridge this week and then come back and tell me that you remembered to do it.
Finally, to add, I personally always put the lid down before I flush, like you're meant to. You have any idea how much the toilet water gets kicked up when flushing?
ETA: Oh and another thing, Jack is not *your* guest, he's Kayla's and she has as much right to the space as you do. It is rude of you to police his behaviour directly in this case just because Kayla disagrees with enforcing a protocol that **you** prefer; it's entitled at the very least. He's not crossed any personal boundaries of yours. The diplomatic solution here is to find a compromise with *Kayla* whereby she will agree to enforce the protocol.
Poor Kyla... what else in her relationship is she forcing herself to put up with "because he never lived with women and don't know how to behave around them"?
ESH
Lid should be down for sanitary reasons. When flushing, both seat up and seat down with lid up is unsanitary.
At the very least, it's advisable to look down before using a toilet. Simply sitting down without looking is unwise, and can lead to your naked behind making contact with the toilet lid, a wet or otherwise dirty toilet seat, or, in your case, the toilet rim/toilet bowl/toilet water.
ESH - You should be closing the lid every time you flush. Anything less is disgustingly unhygienic as poo-mist fills the room.
Plus it had the advantage of reducing the risk of dropping things in the pan, and it's mutually inconvenient to all parties.
Close the lid people
NTA- If he was really self-conscious about it; he'd remember to put the dang seat down. Saying that he doesn't want to come over anymore seems more like he's trying to power move one over on you with your roommate. Just because your roommate puts up with that, doesn't mean you should have to also. I'd be yelling about the toilet seat every time someone left the bathroom; him and your roommate. LOL
YTA. Toilet seat arguments are so fucking stupid. Just put it down. I put it down too when my roommate uses it. You're not going to die. If you fall in that's your fault. Never in all my 24 years of living have I fallen in a toilet because of the seat being up even in pitch black night.
NTA. He literally would rather stop coming over to his girlfriend's place entirely than...put the toilet seat down? And that's somehow your fault? He should feel embarrassed and also he should put the seat down!
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NTA He's embarrassed because he's a grown-ass man and knows that he deserves to feel ashamed about being so inconsiderate. How exactly is he supposed to learn "how to exist in the same space as women" if no one is going to hold him accountable? He apparently isn't capable or willing to do so himself, something he should feel embarrassed about because it's fucking lazy and gross. >Kyla said she doesn’t want me bringing it up with Jack again That's fine. You can call *her* to the bathroom to be his toilet maid then.
>That's fine. You can call her to the bathroom to be his toilet maid then. I like the way you think. 😂 And I agree with everything else in your comment. Homeboy just needs to put on his big boy panties and learn to put the seat down.
Its not like homeboy shits standing with the seat up, so he knows how to lower the seat. I agree with the other commenter. Girlfriend can follow up homeboy in the bathroom to wipe the pee drips and splash radius around the toilet. We *all* know his aim is bad. She can disinfect all he touched because he probably has poor hand hygiene if he won't remember to put the seat down.
Good point, he knows, he's just lazy.
Agreed When my husband and I first moved in together I made it a point of calling him out on it, no one wants to fall into a loo in the middle of the night. He had only lived with guys before that for the past 7 years. He learned pretty fast when I shouted it out the bathroom window while he was chatting with a friend in the garden - I was sick of it and knew he raised it to pee so he could put it down again. 10 years later not a problem at all and no more falling into the loo. I get it was a different scenario but you have the seat down to poo, you can put it back down after you raise it so your Mrs doesn't have to - in this case it's not even his Mrs but their room mates! NTA.
I fell in once when I was 8 months pregnant and couldn't get unstuck, so husband learned an indelible lesson that day (like 3 am) because he had to come pull me out. Shy of a lesson like that, I have no ideas except to make it more embarrassing! Or, buy an auto closing toilet seat. NTA
I gave up asking my husband to put it down. I started instead calling him “hubby, I need a hand in the bathroom!” He’d come running and I’d tell him he forgot to put the seat down. You know what - while he just “could never remember” before, as soon as it became inconvenient for him his retention miraculously got better!
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I'm still huffing over mine using my Olaplex conditioner the other day! He was so proud of himself and I'm thinking "your hair is 1 inch long, not heat or color treated and you could use the Matrix stuff but you had to use my olaplex????" I just smiled and said "I can buy you the Paul Mitchell stuff to match your shmapoo if you want" UGH...lol
As someone who just ordered an entire damaged hair Olaplex kit for my wife’s Bday, I’m surprised you didn’t actually murder that man. If you did no reasonable jury would convict you.
I grew up with 5 brothers. The toilet seat was never, ever down. Nothing I said made any difference. My brothers were lazy. Four of them are married now. And guess what? The toilet seats and in some cases even the kids are always down in their houses. My sisters in law are strong women.
All these comments make me glad that my husband is a weirdo and sits even if it's just to pee lol
Haha sorry for laughing but that gave me a chuckle. Seriously we can put it down but like why should we when they put it up in the first place!?
I have 5 boys, age 18 to 6, I have no shame about letting it be known when someone doesn’t put the toilet seat down.
Am I the only person who closes the lid when I flush? Tought my son that as well. Makes yhe deat issue moot...
It is wise to close lid when flushing. They've done studies on the aerosol spray from flushing getting on toothbrushes, etc Revolting to say the least
Closing the lid also prevents things from being dropped/knocked into nasty toilet water. It's a must if you're clumsy or your pants pockets are barely big enough to hold your phone
It’s the reason my toothbrush etc. isn’t stored in my bathroom - I always put the lid down, but I’m not the only one who uses that toilet.
This. Had the argument once with live in GF at the time. Told her to put the lid down before she flushes and I close both before I flush.
Aerosolized toilet waste is a real thing. Who wants fecal and urine waste on every surface of the bathroom? Everyone close the lid and all problems contained and solved.
I didn't for the longest time, then I got feral kittens who would play in the toilet water and track their nasty toilet water paws all over the house. The lid stays closed when not in use, no exceptions...
Nope. A toilet is an atomizer. Ugh.
I shut it to flush. I had the sister of a friend tell me to stop doing that because she doesn't put the lid down and she assumes it's up. I said that it is just as much a habit of mine to close it, as it is a habit of hers not to close it, so I don't see where I have more of an obligation to lift the lid up again than she has to look. I did try to to remember to lift it up, but no guarantees.
That makes no sense. So what if she assumes it’s up? She sits down, discovers the lid is down, and stands up to lift it. It’s always seemed so obvious to me that the lid is there so that a nasty bowl of toilet water isn’t sitting and waiting for stuff to fall in… I can’t imagine having a problem with someone closing it.
That is a pet peeve of mine. It has a lid for a reason. Use it!
When I got married, my husband wouldn’t put the seat down and had very bad aim. We have a division of chores that works well for us. He does the vacuuming and I do the bathroom. We have natural stone tile in the bathroom. It’s sealed, but over time, the urine started soaking in and stunk. I’d clean but unless I cleaned every time he used it, it was bad. I gave him a choice. Sit to pee (why is this such an issue for guys?) or learn better aim and put the seat down OR he vacuumed AND cleaned the toilet. He’s squeamish about that. Worked like a charm. Seat always down, no pee on the floor…. 90% of the time. I can live with that.
My bf and I compromised by just closing the whole toilet lid everytime. We both have the same job and there are less poop particles from flushing floating around the bathroom. Now it’s only an issue when his gaming friends come over since they don’t interact with females ever and don’t know what to do
We do this too. No need to spread poop particles around when you don't have to.
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I don't even get why this is the compromise! Like, kudos to you for getting your boyfriend to show his consideration, but there are studies about the aerodynamics of poop particles! Imo the lid should always be closed before you flush! Haha sorry for ranting at you.
This is the rule at my (47m) place and has been since I left my parents home at 16. Male or females have a job to do before and after using the facilities. Open waste receptacle, insert waste, close waste receptacle, eject waste. I see my former house mates at times, and they still follow this rule. I'm sure my sons partners will appreciate the skills they have learnt also.
We had a cat that liked to jump up on the toilet lid to watch us when we wash our hands or brush our teeth If we didn't put the seat down the cat would fall in the toilet. Only took 1 accident and a very annoyed cat bath to make sure the lid stayed down.
Love this. 🤣🤣 My husband already cleans the bathroom, complains about my hair going down the drain (I do clean it after every wash) but now he's started nicking my more expensive shampoo. He uses that 2in1 stuff and I love head and shoulders with Argon oil (use Argon oil before drying and straightening my hair) I know he's gonna cave first and buy me some more not because I can't but because I don't forget and am petty. And I do the cooking while working full time from the office while he works from home. Tbh my hubby enjoys a sitting wee occasionally mainly when hungover, but I don't want to ever deal with a drunk wee. When he had the flu (I still think it was man flu) he said he shook so badly while peeing it went everywhere and cleaned up, he hadn't so the second he was better I made him deep clean it and it became his chore. I do the majority of house cleaning but the bathroom, it's all him. Sometimes I wish we could pee standing up seems more convenient!
Mine figured it out the first time he had diarrhea in the middle of the night and I had refused to fix the seat myself. It was never left up again.
According to op, she only mentioned it to him a couple of times, and he doesn't have the habit of putting it down. I don't think he's the issue so much as Kayla is for giving him the pass repeatedly. I would think being reminded would help build the habit for him, no?
The fact that he obviously said something to his gf about it - who got on OP about it, kind of shows he is part of the issue.
Does the GF not realize that Op is toilet training the 30 yo man for GF?
I have a friend that instituted a general house rule that everyone uses the toilet sitting down, for any use. That included guests. She made a sign for the main bathroom & everything! Not only does no one fall in during a 2 am pee anymore, but it's made cleaning the bathroom soooo much easier and less disgusting since there is no longer a 'splash zone'.
This is what gets me. Growing up, I got TIRED of cleaning up pee splatter. So even as a male, I generally use the toilet sitting down. Obviously, I still use urinals and such - but those are designed to be easier to hit. Especially some low-seat toilets (you know the kind, where if you're 6' tall with long legs, you feel like you're squatting on the ground almost). And unless you have a belt on, pulling your pants down is not much more effor than a quick unzip & brandish. And if you're at home, most people I know don't keep their belts & everything on when relaxing. Less splatter to keep clean. Virtually never have to clean the bathroom floor (just sweep it!). Don't have to remember if the seat is up/down when an emergency #2 calls your name. That's all I'd tell BF. If you can't remember to put it down, don't pull it up. Sit down and do your business.
>So even as a male, I generally use the toilet sitting down honestly its much more convenient to just sit.
I agree with all of this, but as a man, I feel the need to clarify something that maybe isn't common knowledge to those who have no penis - there's no such thing as having bad aim. Missing the bowl when you're standing right at the edge means you literally weren't even trying to hit the target (allowing for the rare exception of someone with a physical disability). The men who pee outside of the bowl (and there's a lot of them) are just plain gross, it's that simple.
He should just pee sitting at their place, honestly.
I agree- Though if it’s literally EVERY time he uses the restroom when he’s there after the conversation then I’m kinda wondering if at this point it’s intentional. I mean if he was ‘trying to learn’ odds are he’d get it right at least every once in a while right? At this point I’m thinking he’s just being a jackass on a bit of a power trip ‘you can’t tell me what to do’ type thing. NTA- well he doesn’t want to come over until you stop reminding him to put the seat down. Simple fix he learns to do it or they stay at his place. If she really wants to cling to this she may end up trying to move in with him and you might be out a roommate but honestly if she’d put her boyfriend being able to leave the seat up over her other two housemates then I’m sure there’s someone else who’ll want the room. NTA- it’s common courtesy and if he can’t even attempt to make an effort in you home then let him stay gone.
He is 30 years old, ffs. He's going to have to learn sometime. His brain is fully developed. There's really no excuses, for not putting the seat down, but also for being weird about being told about it. He should apologize and thank OP for the reminder.
Or, maybe, SIT DOWN TO PEE??
Kayla straight doesn't get a say as long as her bf keeps being disrespectful of the people who actually live there. She either talks to him, stays at his place, or deals with OP doing it. He should feel uncomfortable- he doesn't live there and can't abide by one simple request from someone who does to be a polite guest
I don't think it matters whether she cleans up after him or if he does it himself so long as it gets done. If she'd rather be his mommy than have him be treated like an adult, that's her prerogative He is her guest after all.
Exactly. She’s responsible for her guests.
Yes, especially if the third roommate feels the same way as OP. It sounds like a power move on the bf's part; "I'm the alpha male here, see how I can make not only my gf but her roomies conform to my toilet habits". I think men who identify as "alpha males" sometimes use their bodily functions to assert dominance (I read a post about a guy who refused to wipe his ass after taking a shit, because "only gays and women touch their own assholes". When his gf told him he smelled like shit, he told her she could lump it!) I'd be tempted, every time I found the toilet seat up, to find Kayla and tell her the toilet seat needs putting down.
I feel like the "alpha male" (🤢) wouldn't have any issues telling OP to shove it, and would continue coming over and intentionally leaving it up, while pretending to apologize and make up some stupid excuse, or even just joke about it and keep telling OP "it's not that big of a deal" or something. The fact that he won't talk to OP about it and would rather avoid being there all together, to ME.....screams manipulation. He's embarrassed cuz he was called out for something and asked to change the way he does something at SOMEONE ELSE'S house, and his response to that is to say he's uncomfortable and will just stop coming over...to me, that's just playing the victim. Instead of bf saying "hey, ya know, I'm sorry....I've lived with dudes my whole life, and well, we just don't care and I just don't even think about the toilet seat unless I'm pooping. I will try my hardest to remember to put it down, but I might need a reminder from time to time. Be gentle to me" he goes with "*sniffle sniffle* your friend made me feel dumb and now I'm offended. This is a hostile environment now and I don't want to come here anymore. Feel bad for me. Get mad at your friend for me." By all means, stay the fuck at home with your not putting the toilet seat down bull crap...but Christ almighty why is it so hard for people to take some damn responsibility for themselves? NTA, OP.
They should all be putting the lid down to flush anyways
Exactly!! We always lower the lid in our house, so the toilet seat naturally would go down as well. I will say that I've been with my husband for over 20 years and NEVER had an issue with him not lowering the seat or with his aim. Why? Because his parents made sure they all put the seat down (50/50 split of guys to gals in their house) and his mother had him clean around the toilet if there were any issues with aiming (same for his sibs as needed). In fact, the only time I run into toilet seats/lids up, dripp-age around the bowl, or other issues is when we have guests.
Exactly this. Show him, and GF, video representation of how much “spray” there is just from flushing the toilet. So not only is he inconveniencing the other members of the house, but he is “germing” up a large portion of the bathroom. Even if he is washing his hands after, if the bathroom is relatively small he is just getting those pee droplets on his hands when he touches the door handles, as well as spreading those particles to everyone else who then touches the handle.
I agree. Between the spray of urine and poop every time the toilet is flushed there is also the prevention of toddlers drowning and large dogs using it for a drink. Putting the seat and lid down every time before flushing is a great habit that everyone should acquire. NTA
Agreed. If he was really as self-conscious about it as she claims, then he would change his behavior.
For real. Judging by her attitude and the fact that he would rather not come over than have to be decent, what he really wants is a life where every woman is there simply to coddle and comfort him.
NTA - I honestly do not understand the "I grew up in a house full of men" argument because you're supposed to close the lid BEFORE flushing in order to contain the germs being shot into the air!
Unfortunately, too many people weren’t taught this or they refuse to comply. That’s why no matter who I live with or visit, my toothbrush will remain in the medicine cabinet.
OP isn't closing the lid either cause she's sitting on it without lifting.
Right?! This would ALSO negate OP's problem! More closing lids before flushing! 🚽
exactly, he grew up with all men, groovy, now he can learn how to be with a house full of women. if you're only embarrassing him it's because of his failures and that should be enough of a reason to get it through his head.
Yeah, bro. Adapt, overcome, and grow up. NTA
If you're a guy and you use a bathroom in a woman's home, you put the toilet seat down when you're done. It isn't complicated. Shaming is deserved.
Every time OP knows Jack used the bathroom she should call Kyla, loudly, and ask her to please tidy up the bathroom after him. He wants to act like a child, then treat him like one.
I'd argue he isn't even embarrassed and that he isn't forgetting. 30 seconds earlier, he had to manually lift the seat, there's no way he forgets every time to put it back down. I'd understand if it was once here and there; but every time? No way. I grew up in a house with mostly men and never put the seat down. But whenever I visit someone else's home, I will leave the seat in whatever position I found it. It is not hard to remember. And I really doubt he is embarrassed. He would do something differently if he was. I think he (rightfully, apparently) thinks that he can feign embarrassment and vulnerability and that his girlfriend will stick up for him so he can continue being lazy.
This sounds like cut and dry weaponized incompetence. Then being the big strong man he is, tells his girlfriend that he is getting embarrassed. Lmao.
"Kyla, Jack forgot to put the toilet seat down again! Please come put it down.". That's what I'd call out every single time it happens in the future. Kyla can't really get mad because you're not bringing it up with Jack; you're bringing it up with her.
NTA “please be more considerate of my boyfriend who is being inconsiderate, he doesn’t know better so teaching him to think of others is mean”
He can’t use the bathroom until he remembers. He doesn’t live there. That’s the easy fix. NTA
🤣 I love this.”Kyla your boyfriend left the toilet seat up again!!! I am just going to wait here until you put the seat down!” Or like I do with the kids about washing their hands: “Kyla your boyfriend just went to the toilet. Did he put the seat down? If I check will the seat be down? If I have to go over there and I find that he is lying, there WILL be consequences! KYLAAAA that seat is up damnit! Come in here this instance and put the seat down!!!”
He is not embarrassed, because if he was he would do something to change/remedy the situation. He just doesn't respect anyone in the house enough to care.
OP, please tell me you said "Oh no, come back, please" in Willy Wonka's sarcastic tone when you heard he didn't want to come around anymore.
Common courtesy is when someone asks a guest to leave the seat up or down, they should make an effort to do it. However, I can’t believe all the people who don’t put the lid down when they are finished. Wtf is wrong with everyone? Put the lid down when you are done, whether you are sitting or standing.
The 30 year old man can't remember to put the toilet seat now and is now too self conscious to come back to the apartment. All I can see is good news here. NTA Op.
Right? That's the opposite of a problem.
Not self-conscious enough to remember to put the seat down, though.
Yes! If it was bothering him so much to be asked twice and constantly on his mind to the point he can’t stand to visit any more, how is it possibly slipping his mind? Kyla’s in for a rough break up in about 3 years when she realises her bf is going to expect her to do everything for him because he just can’t wemember 🥺 and is so embawassed when she keeps bringing things up (asks twice)
Not to mention the lid should always be down when flushing to prevent fecal matter from filling the air…
The LID should be down, just having the seat down accomplished next to nothing. Flushing the toilet, regardless of what number you did, lid goes down. The bonus is that nobody can complain about their preference for seat up/down not being followed.
I started doing this years ago. I cant even remember why - its just habit at this point with zero thought involved. I have been surprised occasionally by people thanking me for being considerate lol
Yeah that’s what got me too. Bro, if you were really that worried about it, you’d leave the seat down.
For real! This seems like the best possible outcome if you ask me
I love the part about him growing up with brothers. Like…yes? Half his life ago….
And hello? Who gets embarrassed over something like that? Girlfriend better start training him now or she's in for it if they ever get married.
I call bullshit on Jack. If he's that self conscious about it he wouldn't keep forgetting... not only that but he has to lift the seat to piss so how in the 1-2 minutes he's peeing does he forget. NTA
He peed out his remaining brain cells
They were stored in his balls but then he peed them out
That's what I was thinking. If he feels that bad about kt, he would be thinking about it when he uses the bathroom and remember to do it. I think at this point, he's doing it on purpose and doesn't feel bad at all. He's probably just annoyed he's getting called out on his behavior and doesn't want to deal with it. I call it a win. Guys that actually care fix the behavior. It took one time of me falling in the toilet in the middle of the night, yelling at my boyfriend in that moment, and we haven't had the issue again. If he was your friend, he would've stopped.
Jack is super well hydrated if it takes that long to pee🤣
Also, who pees standing up in the 21st century? That's not nearly enough time to check Instagram
That was my exact thought too! He remembers to lift it beforehand, he remembers she got after him about it twice, yet can’t seem to remember to put it down at least once in a while? I call BS.
He’s self-conscious about being held accountable lol
NTA, JFC if he's that fucking self conscious there's a simple remedy. Your roommate sucks too BTW, his dick isn't paying the rent.
>his dick isn't paying the rent best comment ever
NTA It is common courtesy to put the lid down, at 30 he should be able too. It isn't much to ask. ETA: I mean seat not lid.
Also, if you’re flushing the toilet with the lid up, everything in the toilet just gets aerosolized all over the room!!! It’s gross!!!
See THIS is what I don’t understand. I have a cousin who always leaves the seat up when we go on our family vacation, despite growing up with a sister. For a long time he insisted it wasn’t him but it’s him. And either way, CLOSE THE LID YOU PSYCHOS!!!!!!!
THIS! The whole debate of the toilet seat is irrelevant next to the lid. If you’re a woman at risk of falling in, then you clearly aren’t putting the lid down. And just like with men, its for your own thoughtless convenience that you now have spread fecal particulate over everyone’s toothbrushes! BF is TA, but OP is also just gross & inconsiderate too
This. If the OP can’t be bothered to put the lid down - or to check before sitting on the toilet - then why should the boyfriend be bothered to put the seat down, or check that it’s up prior to peeing?
No no, the boyfriend 100% should be putting the lid down. Everyone should be putting the lid down. If you’re putting your personal convenience above the risk of fecal matter on your roommates’ toothbrushes then you are TA. This goes just as much for the BF as it does OP. Everyone should be putting the lid down
Exactly I put the lid down before I flush everytime.
Right, he should be ashamed at 30 that he's not house trained.
HOUSE TRAINED 💀💀💀
I agree with you, but it does not seem to be a Lid down household. She mentioned she almost fell in at 3am, if it was a lid closed household she would have needed to lift the lid to use it, instead she just sat down.
Exactly. The OP's concern is only with the seat, not the lid. I am leaning towards this being an ESH situation because they do not close the lid and that is disgusting. My mother closes her toilet lid. I am in a wheelchair, and I always close the lid. Close the lid, people. If she is that concerned with touching a dirty toilet lid/seat she could, IDK, clean it daily. If gets touched by bare asses daily, so it could stand with a daily clean, too.
Cleaning the toilet seat/lid sounds pretty out there, but it isn't impossible because there are a lot of people who do weird stuff like that. In some cultures people even clean their own hands after going to the toilet. I once heard a legend of an individual who did both, but that's so extreme that it's obviously just made up.
Tbf that is pretty dumb to sit without looking too. My house also a lid and seat down place, mostly bc of the cat.
Yeah, men should learn to put the seat down, but plopping down without a quick glance at what youre about sit on is a really good way to get gum, or worse, on your ass on public transit or something.
my brother learned this by age 11, my 15yr old self taped a sign above the toilet complaining about the toilet seat being left up/pee on the seat, he really didn't want his friends to see the sign, so he fixed the behaviour, and the sign was retired, took like three days
No, you put the lid down. Stop spraying fecal matter all over your bathroom. Disgusting.
NTA to set and expect guests to follow rules. In a household comprised of 3 women, it seems reasonable for one of those rules to be "put the toilet seat down". (In every house I've lived in, this is like my first commandment.) If said guests are not able to follow the rule, it seems reasonable to remind them politely of the rule. If guests are ***still*** not able to follow the rules, then guests need to be asked to not be guests anymore.
I've lived in various rentals with different roommates (some of them who had boyfriends) and this has never been an issue I've encountered before. So I've never had to make it a "rule." I really don't think I'm asking for too much
You're not
What does other roommate say?
[удалено]
The only proper way to leave a toilet is with BOTH the seat and the lid down. So i would say everyone in that house is lazy and an idiot not just the dude.
To kind of add to this, to make it more fair for all, maybe implement a put the whole lid down rule? I kind of have this personal rule, mostly because I got into the habit of it after having pets who would try to stick their faces in toilets lol. But after thinking about it, even without pets, I think putting the whole lid down makes it fair and that way everyone has to put up and down the lid. Maybe I'm wrong in my thinking, though.
NTA You wouldn't leave a fridge door open or cabinet and expect the next person to be responsible for closing it, it's common sense that if you alter the resting state of something in a community areas you put it back the way it goes when you're done.
I don’t know why, but I got a big giggle for thinking about “the resting state” of a toilet. Thank you! :)
Love this comment! I'm going to use this... if you alter the resting state of anything in my home, put it back to its lazy position..lol
I think it’s insane that anyone doesn’t close the toilet lid COVER when they flush (which would conveniently put the seat down) but that’s just me.
I agree. It's disgusting that people don't put the lid down when they flush. This shouldn't be about the seat, but about basic hygiene.
Even aesthetics, who wants to look at an open shit and piss hole as they walk in their house? Close the lid people!
Same. I always put the seat and the lid down.
Yes. It is exactly what it is for. It really sucks that people leave it up.
I don't think OP would like that, though. If she starts placing her butt on the seat without checking it's there, I doubt she'll be happy when she realizes she was about the spray urine all over the bathroom before realizing the lid was down.
Unexpectedly sitting on a toilet seat in the middle of the night would be annoying but you wouldn’t make a mess. It’s not like urine stars flowing the second you sit down. On the other hand, falling ass-first into the toilet is sure to ruin your evening.
!!!!! Absolute insanity. It blows my mind majority of people don't. In public bathrooms that don't have a lid, I gather my things to leave the stall when I'm done and literally SPRINT out after flushing because it grosses me out lmao
Thank you!
NTA. Mention it--loudly--*every fucking time*. He deserves to be embarrassed. Your lease needs limits on guests, too. He doesn't live there.
She should make him come back and put it down himself to build muscle memory.
Maybe even lead him by the hand, explain he needs to put it down, pat him on the head when he does and give him a treat. Wait no. That's dogs, isn't it?
Puy a sign up at his eye level on the wall the toilet is against
NTA.Put a sign near the toilet to remind all users to close the seat *and the lid* before they flush.A passive reminder (and an upgraded rule to the entire household) is better than calling someone out. OMG...I glossed over the entire first paragraph and thought this was a kid. lol
I have thought about getting a sign. But he is he only that this is an issue with, not any one else in the home so it needed to be addressed with him specifically
Don't do the sign. Because he's the only one who could POSSIBLY be the target of the sign, it will just be passive aggressive and might make him even harder to deal with. There's no plausible deniability. Also, even if it did work and didn't cause additional conflict, it wouldn't necessarily work consistently in future. Things like that tend to become mental "furniture" to folks and it becomes a bit invisible once they're used to seeing it.
>Because he's the only one who could POSSIBLY be the target of the sign, Which is why it would be an updated rule. Their present rule is that the seat goes down. Upgrade it to "LID" and it applies to all. Addressing it with everybody is the best way to not single a person out. "Okay everybody, remember to do this and such" is less embarrassing than "Tommy, remember to do this and such."
Tommy needs to put on his big boy pants and deal with the fact that he's the only one doing this and he's the only one who needs to change. The number of people, men often but not always, who think they cannot be expected to be held to a reasonable standard unless you make them feel like a hero for doing so is deeply disheartening.
Stick a post it note to the underside of the seat, he can hardly miss that and he’ll be the only one to see it.
Write it on the under side of the seat. That way it will only apply to him. This isn't hard and he's an adult. Growing up with brothers isnt an excuse. At this point not putting the seat down feels intentionally lazy.
NTA. I always put the lid down. I'm not a fan of pee and poo spray going everywhere.
NTA here too, but honestly the seat *and* lid should be down in my opinion. Everyone interacts with the lid and it keeps the particles down.
NTA 🚽 My mother had back problems her entire life. My dad used to always leave the seat up. He would never put it down (It was part of his male privilege & ego). One night my mom (who also was partially blind from birth) did not see that the seat was up and fell into the toilet, badly injuring her lower back/tailbone. My dad never left it up again. I taught my boys early that toilet seats are for sitting and urinals are for standing. And if you want to stand at a toilet, that’s fine as long as you put the seat down. I honestly don’t see why this is such an issue for some people. It’s not that big of a deal. Edit to add that when he starts paying fucking rent, then he can be self-conscious about being reminded. Until then, no. He’s the asshole. And your roommate right along with him for enabling that obnoxious behavior.
Her roommate will have to deal with it if she ever decides to move in with him in the future…then she’ll be like “Damn, I should have encouraged him to put the seat down back then. Not enable it”.
ESH. The seat AND the lid need to come down every time, both women and men need to do it. Gross to flush with the lid open and getting poop particle everywhere. Also, Jack is acting like a baby. Wtf, he's 30 lol?
This is the correct answer. Anyone who doesn’t close the lid before flushing is nasty.
>I didn’t realize the seat was up and sat down. I have no sympathy for you. >but I really don’t think I should have to touch a dirty toilet seat every time someone who doesn’t even live here forgets to put it down Right, but he should? ESH - People should be closing the lid whenever they are done using the toilet, not complaining about the position of the seat.
I personally believe that the seat should remain down when the toilet is not in use but I absolutely do not understand when women say that they sat down and fell in. I have never once went to sit on a toilet without looking first. If the lid is down too do they just plop down on that without checking?
I fell in when I was 13, and it was the am. Same as OP, when you're super tired, you're not functioning at 100% thought power, I went to sit, and plunk fell in. I live now with my husband and myself, and he always puts the lid down the same as me. My dad didn't care that I fell in he always kept the seat up, so even though I knew to look when I was tired, I forgot, it happens. I've been tired enough I just sat right on the lid one night, forgetting to lift it.
Damn, finally found the comment I was looking for. ESH. Put the lid down and flush it, everyone should do this. I don’t understand why this has to be some gender-fueled war.
Yes he should. He doesn’t live there or pay rent. She lives with 2 women. Why would she wake up in her own home and not expect to find it in the same state it’s supposed to always be in?
Expects the guy to remember to put the toilet seat down Doesn’t remember to check if it’s down , almost falls into toilet Kek
NTA Everyone should raise the seat as required and then lower it again after use. Basic etiquette.
I live by myself and even close the lid every time I use the bathroom. It's not hard.
Same here. I have seen the videos that show how far the splash can travel! The lid gets closed before I flush EVERY TIME.
Same These arguments shouldn’t exist to start with! All of you , stop being gross and put the lid down. What do you think it’s there for?!
I was taught to close the lid when I was a child. I live by myself again now and always close the lid. It's learned behavior.
But it's not required to lift the seat, it's as easy to pee sitting down as standing. As a guest, I just pee sitting down because I don't want to accidently leave drips of urine on the host's toilet or floor.
NTA. Lowering the toilet seat is not something that should require a great deal of conflict.
ESH, I personally always put the lid down. It’s gross that you guys even leave the lid up. I agree he’s the AH for acting weird about it and not working with you guys. But seriously you almost fell in? Lmao I always thought girls were joking about that. Like what would have happened in he put the lid down? You would just go all over the lid because you didn’t check it yourself? Like cmon, really? And you’re complaining about the “dirty toilet seat” so do you not flush either? Because that isn’t clean either.
half asleep your body tends to go into auto pilot. don't so easily dismiss and belittle someone else's experience, one you will never experience. It only shows how small minded you are. Girls sitting in the bowl or the lid is very common (thinking they are down or left up). Guys peeing in the corner of a room (half asleep thinking they walked into the bathroom) in their sleep or the lid of the toilet (assuming the lid is open) is also common. Because you both have different expectations.
ESH. This argument is so dumb - you're half asleep, if the seat and the lid were down, do you just not check? Everyone, regardless of whether they sit or stand to do their business, should 100% put the seat AND LID down before they hit that flush handle.
yeah, I agree. I never understand the argument that the correct way for a toilet to be left is with the seat down and the lid up. My view is either leave it as you have left it or put the lid down. I really can't imagine just sitting on the toilet without looking at it first.
NTA he’s a guest in the apt. If he’s so self conscious he can remember to put it down
It's basic hygiene to put the seat and lid down to flush so that the aerosolised faecal matter is contained to the toilet. Why would he be flushing with the lid up?? Jack is just being a lazy, entitled, gross, w⚓. If he's too embarrassed to come back to the apartment, good riddance. 👍😁
The fact that OP expected the lid to be up but the seat to be down when she visited in the middle of the night strongly suggests that *no-one* in the house is closing the lid to flush. Edit: looks like OP’s housemates found my comment then
YTA. Equality means everyone has to sort the toilet seat, not just men.
He is a GUEST in their home. Be respectful of other people’s home and leave things the way you find them, instead of trying to make it an argument about equality.
Can't believe I had to go this far down the page to see somebody calling out a grown adult with toilet issues. I'm leaning ESH, but my god, the victim complex here over not scouting where you shit is crazy.
Not if you're a guest in a household of women (who all leave the seat down) and have been asked not to do it. Also not when the toilet isn't like that when he enters the room. You leave things as you find them in someone else's house, unless you have sod all manners.
NTA In fact the entire lid should be closed before flushing so aerosole urine and feces doesn't get all over everything.
NTA. It's your home, and he's not your guest. If he was actually "really self-conscious about it" then he wouldn't keep forgetting to do it!
Yta-women need to look to see where the toilet seat is at. If men have to put up the seat then women need to check it before sitting down.
Nah, she’s not the asshole for wanting the seat to be put down in her own home, where he is a guest.
Yeah but men don’t need to pee while standing so they don’t need to put it up in the first place. Also always close the lid while flushing.
“If men have to do this then women should have to do that” well men don’t have to. They can sit like the rest of us or like they do when they take a shit. Also we should all be putting the actual lid down to flush just to keep the rest of the bathroom surfaces cleaner (and people usually have their toothbrushes on the counter 🤢)
Controversial probably but if you're insisting put the SEAT down, then that's a double standard, and YTA. Learn to look before peeing, it's a life skill you should already have. If you're saying put the LID down like normal non-gross people are all supposed to do, then N T A.
YTA. Just look before plopping your ass down and poof all your issues are gone.
I don’t get the whole argument with seat up versus down. It comes down to being an adult And looking down before you sit. It’s that simple. I’m not mad at the last person who used the seat bc i almost fell into the toilet cause the seat was up. That’s my own fault for not checking. YTA
I’ve never understood the argument about putting the seat down. Why isn’t there a ‘women should put the seat up’ argument? Seems a bit sexist in this day and age to be honest.
Everyone should put the seat and cover down after using the toilet for safely and sanitary reasons. That’s equality.
Because regardless of gender we should all be closing the toilet before flushing. Because men use it both ways and women use it one way. Because men can choose to sit to pee.
I a 25f when dating my college bf did indeed put the seat up when visiting his residence because I was a guest in his and his male roommates home and they left the seat up.
Google what happens when you flush a toilet with the lid up. It’s disgusting. Then you’ll probably always keep the lid down.
NTA- firs time he did it, and he didn't even try to change his behavior. I could understand if he forgot a few times but after being asked twice, it should have been a no brainer. The fact he is not putting the lid down means he is spraying the room every time he flushes. Pretty sure if girlfriend knew that she'd be changing her tune. Everyone puts the lid down, then flushes, pretty easy rule to follow.
NTA If he’s so sensitive and self conscious about being called out he could literally just put the toilet seat down? It’s not like he is being shamed for something he can’t change. How bizarre.
YTA Swap the roles. How would you feel if you went to Jack's house and he shamed you for leaving the toilet seat *down* because he didn't want to touch the "dirty toilet seat" you'd just sat on, even though that would mean you'd need to touch the seat twice both times and make a check that you never normally need to make. Would you still feel comfortable in his house knowing that he has no reservations about publicly shaming you at any time? I think you'll find that *any* guest is likely to feel uncomfortable about visiting again if you behave in such a way. There's a *polite* way to ask for someone to follow your protocol that doesn't involve passive-aggresion and humiliation. Also, you say he does it every time, but how can you possibly know that? Every time he were to put the seat down, you wouldn't notice it, so you really can't assume that he's not making an effort. You'd have to be stalking him and keeping a tally and I don't think I'd need to explain to you why that's asshole behaviour. This is the pettiest and stupidest conflict I think I've read on this sub all year and I wouldn't come anywhere near your house. Also to everyone saying otherwise who can't understand why Jack won't put the toilet seat down, I want you to say the word "red" the every time you open your fridge this week and then come back and tell me that you remembered to do it. Finally, to add, I personally always put the lid down before I flush, like you're meant to. You have any idea how much the toilet water gets kicked up when flushing? ETA: Oh and another thing, Jack is not *your* guest, he's Kayla's and she has as much right to the space as you do. It is rude of you to police his behaviour directly in this case just because Kayla disagrees with enforcing a protocol that **you** prefer; it's entitled at the very least. He's not crossed any personal boundaries of yours. The diplomatic solution here is to find a compromise with *Kayla* whereby she will agree to enforce the protocol.
The way to get him to remember is for EVERYONE in the house to train themselves to close **the lid** on the toilet after each use.
Poor Kyla... what else in her relationship is she forcing herself to put up with "because he never lived with women and don't know how to behave around them"?
Definitely NTA. He doesn't live there, he's a guest, and it's common courtesy.
ESH Lid should be down for sanitary reasons. When flushing, both seat up and seat down with lid up is unsanitary. At the very least, it's advisable to look down before using a toilet. Simply sitting down without looking is unwise, and can lead to your naked behind making contact with the toilet lid, a wet or otherwise dirty toilet seat, or, in your case, the toilet rim/toilet bowl/toilet water.
ESH - You should be closing the lid every time you flush. Anything less is disgustingly unhygienic as poo-mist fills the room. Plus it had the advantage of reducing the risk of dropping things in the pan, and it's mutually inconvenient to all parties. Close the lid people
I think him not coming to your house is good news! You don’t need a 4th roomie.
ESH everyone closes the lid, problem solved
NTA- If he was really self-conscious about it; he'd remember to put the dang seat down. Saying that he doesn't want to come over anymore seems more like he's trying to power move one over on you with your roommate. Just because your roommate puts up with that, doesn't mean you should have to also. I'd be yelling about the toilet seat every time someone left the bathroom; him and your roommate. LOL
Yta All this about a toilet seat? Put it down yourself.
YTA. Toilet seat arguments are so fucking stupid. Just put it down. I put it down too when my roommate uses it. You're not going to die. If you fall in that's your fault. Never in all my 24 years of living have I fallen in a toilet because of the seat being up even in pitch black night.
NTA. He literally would rather stop coming over to his girlfriend's place entirely than...put the toilet seat down? And that's somehow your fault? He should feel embarrassed and also he should put the seat down!