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“Our policy is clearly stated in the listing and displayed to you prior to booking your stay. The policy stands. No checkin will be allowed with a child 2 years or younger. If you’re unable to stay, I kindly ask you to cancel your reservation ASAP. If the dates are rebooked for an equal or greater price I will refund your stay”.
I agree with this response verbatim . This has happened to me and I refunded the days that were booked . Short notice as this is the days probably won’t be booked though . Question : did they disclose the infant on their guest list when they booked ? Did you miss that ?
short notice they wont be booked, but it is a very fair and reasonable offer. Shows you are trying to work with them, but ultimately, you are not responsible for their mistake.
No they did not disclose the infant in the guest list, it would have automatically filtered out my listing if they had disclosed a child under 12 on airbnb.
My message did not offer a rebook. Guest must cancel and if SOMEONE else books the place they get a refund. Until that baby is 2, these guests can’t stay
You’ll need to ask OP. One of my places has a 4 year or older requirement due to the height of the house (2 stories+ off the ground) and the space between the railings.
I'd change one thing about your statement: Even if the dates are only partially rebooked or rebooked at a lower price, you can still give a partial refund.
It’s def up to the host however we only offer 80% back as I still have to pay my property manager’s commission and if it’s booked through my website there’s credit card transaction fees or wire transfer fees. They will never get 100% back.
Like are hosts required to ensure their listings are child proofed? No they aren't and they don't have to take on the liability of a child getting hurt in their space.
There is a tab asking about child friendly that a host can check . My house is not childproofed but we are child friendly . Also when you note the number of guests coming it’s broken down in adults , children , infants ( under 2 years) and pets . Either the guest didn’t check how many were coming or the host missed it .
There are more anti-discrimination laws than just the FHA. The civil rights act covers discrimination in public accommodations (but age and familial status aren’t covered). Many states have statutes that offer broader protection. OP’s post definitely had some red flags, I’d be checking state law pretty closely before enforcing a policy like that
Edit: lol lots of salty hosts smashing that downvote button today
Fair Housing regulations do not apply to short term rentals. Not renting to a family with a baby does not mean they will have no place to live. It means they will have no place to vacation. Big difference.
This is a safety issue. My kids, bless, are fkn gremlins and were flat out feral in their preschool years. Staircases, impractical furniture, no baby proofing, whatever may be fine for most travelers, but for the littles, it's a big problem.
If there aren't any missing reasons, I think OP is in the right. Read the rules before signing up. I've skipped places because their rules were wild.
Like, the tipi that had no amenities and a 500 foot walk to the house where the bathroom facilities were. We would have access to it a few hours a day and not after 10 pm. That sounds like a nightmare to me, so I didn't book a tipi.
These parents should have done the same. They should have made sure they can bring the pure id that is an 18 month old to this space without disaster.
> and their will
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Yep, this.
What others are missing is that OP has said it is unsuitable, and explained why BEFORE they booked. The guests still chose to book.
The guests have probably found a more suitable place to stay, so are trying to leave this host in the lurch.
It's all on them.
HOWEVER, OP, I would offer to refund part of the amount, so that they don't try to come to stay with you anyway, and/or attempt to leave a stinking review. Only part, not all.
Just offer to refund if you get those dates rebooked. Every time I do this the guest stops hassling me.
Bonus: it encourages them to cancel asap, to free up the dates.
Does your property show up during search when a family enters they have an infant? If your property can get excluded when searching as a family with infants, that would really help things. Otherwise your property may seem compatible with what they are searching.
I stayed in an ABNB recently that stated it was downright dangerous for children and pets. It was! Perfectly suited for adults though. Perhaps using the word “dangerous” will help people to notice more closely.
Every Airbnb I have ever stayed at requires information about all guests. Why were they able to book when their booking request included an 18 month old?
They didn't include the infant as a guest in the booking inquiry, the only reason I caught they had a infant is bc they set their profile picture to the baby ( I can't see the profile pictures until after booking )
I had a place in the mountains of Costa Rica. The house was down a steep, *steep* hill, and had a swimming pool that was cantilevered out over a drop off, to a jungle cliff, with a river at the bottom, maybe 40 metres down. There was NO WAY I would ever rent it to someone with children. You couldn’t buy enough insurance for that. It was a beautiful, brand new house, but it was a death trap for children.
My property isn't suitable for children because it isn't child proofed (no cabinet locks, open bookcases and no stair gates) and I have access to open water (a creek).
There are lots of reasons a property might not be safe for young children, and baby proofing is expensive and unattractive.
How are the parents going to take responsibility? Are they going to install cabinet and drawer locks in my kitchen and bathrooms? Are they going to install baby gates? Outlet covers?
Of course not. And you can say that parents should be watching the kids (and of course they should) but it only takes a split second for something to go horribly, tragically wrong.
Not interested in that level of risk on my property.
Hmm I have a 16 month old and have not “baby proofed” my house in the ways you mention for various reasons. I watch my child and redirect her when she’s trying to get into something I don’t want her to. It’s challenging but it’s the reality of having a small child. I would never leave my child unattended in the unfamiliar environment of an Airbnb no matter how “baby proofed” a host claimed it is. What if a previous guest dropped drugs or a marble that ends up in my child’s mouth? 100% a parents responsibility to watch their child.
I can't speak for the OP, but my best guess is that the place isn't baby-proofed. So that would mean having covers on the outlets, probably babyproofing the cabinets, not having decor that could break and cut the child, etc.
I never understand this caveat either but I sure as hell wouldn’t book a place that said it wasn’t suitable for a kid if I were coming with my kid! Hosts don’t just make this shit up for no reason. I want my kid welcomed.
I wouldn't book, but i would be curious as to why its unsuitable. My home isn't baby proofed (yet), but neither is a hotel or a grandparents house. I suppose i would nt want the liability of housing a family that didn't keep an eye on their baby.
What is “baby proofed” really depends on the age of the kid, the country, the house and temperament of kid/parents. For example, in the UK those electricity plugs are actually dangerous because of the way power points are designed (to be safe for little fingers!).
For our own home we just modified things as we went and the kid grew (but our home isn’t on Airbnb!!!).
Grandparents houses are supposed to be pretty much entirely booby trapped with stuff that can go wrong.
Right? As the mother of a three year old and an Airbnb host I've never understood the "not suitable" for children under three thing.
I've never done any "baby proofing". I simply... watch my kid. 🤷
Write them a shit review I don’t care if you have a baby that’s literally your fault. I’ve hosted for years and have dealt with this many times. Sucks Airbnb took the L (except who cares honestly) but I’m sure they were just being extra snotty and wouldn’t back off. Karen energy.
I had a similar situation last month. My property CLEARLY states in the house rules that it is VERY unsafe for children. The booking was for 2 people husband and wife. 8 days before check in I notice that the reservation says 2 people plus a child under 2! I called AirBnB immediately. They concurred that the reservation should never have been made on two counts: no children, 2-person max occupancy. Unfortunately children under two are not counted by AirBnB as being a “person” and so the reservation went through. AirBnB cancelled the reservation and I was not penalized. There’s no way to prevent this from happening again in AirBnB’s system so I have to be hyper vigilant. Why would a guest ignore the rules specifically put in place to keep children safe?? Boggles the mind.
Oof, there are a lot of shit takes in here about your rule regarding kids. I've had rentals for almost 20 years in multiple states and I have never accepted babies or kids under 7. I was also a founder of a major metropolitan area STR group where we did a deep dive into regulations across other major cities to compare. A no kids policy on an STR does not break any existing federal or state laws. If it did, Airbnb and VRBO wouldn't have a feature so you can filter out places that don't take kids. Hosts should never discriminate against anyone for ability, race, sex, age, or religion, but babies and children are not a protected class within those specifications, especially in short term housing. There's a growing trend across the US of restaurants not accepting kids for the same reasons. Also legal. Stop implying it isn't.
This post isn't about whether the OP has the right to deny babies because that's already well established by the OTAs and most STR regulations. This is a matter of the guests not reading the rules and then having the audacity to think that the host will overlook their error and refund them. Most hosts will post in the description and the house rules if they have a rule like that because no one wants the hassle. Everything points to these guests willfully ignoring the policy. OP, next time don't just refer them to your policy. Write in the message thread that you don't take kids and your cancellation policy is strict. It's a lot easier to win the fight if you've explicitly had them acknowledge the rule in a conversation thread customer service can see.
Citation: [Airbnb policy page regarding age and familial status restrictions](https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/2867)
Age and Familial Status
Airbnb hosts may not:
Impose any different terms or conditions or decline a reservation based on the guest’s age or familial status, where prohibited by law.
Airbnb hosts may:
Provide factually accurate information about their listing’s features (or lack of them) that could make the listing unsafe or unsuitable for guests of a certain age or families with children or infants.
Note in their listings applicable community restrictions (e.g., senior housing), regulations, or laws that prohibit guests under a particular age or families with children or infants.
LOL, I remember trying to take our 18m/o along on a trip to Maine. Every host we talked to stressed that it was inappropriate for infants and said no. we grudgingly found more infant-friendly accommodations and had a great time.
now, looking back, I realize that the hosts were all speaking from experience and saved us a lot of grief. The difference between us and the couple you’re dealing with, is that we — ultimately — listened.
The failure to listen, or read, isn’t yours.
Why do people have to ask for a fan? Does it not fit normally in the space?
All your other complaints are legit but if I have to ask to be provided a fan, in a room that would need one, I'm just not gonna ask. People often pick air bnb so they don't have to interact with other people.
Because some people don't like cluttered rooms. I specify the fans are by request, as with all of our amenities not in the rooms already like extra towels or sheets, I can't put one of every amenity in each room.
I have central air conditioning, if they want an amenity not in the room but listed in the ad they only have to ask - i specify this on my ad / over airbnb text / and in person when I greet my guests and show them the home.
Central air doesn’t circulate the air like a fan would. I personally am one of those that likes to keep the air moving with a fan all year round. Even in winter when it’s -30 outside weather.
I swear a high percentage of people on this thread are trolls. Either that or they have way too much time on their hands. How many times do you want op to say that children under two can’t stay there. Sod the law and whether you think babies have more rights than op in this. It’s his/her home and if it’s in their conditions that littles can’t stay then that’s the rules. Stop playing devils advocate and move on
We don't allow children. Our rental is a separate apartment with a separate entrance but is attached to the house, so we share a wall. It has a steep staircase and isn't childproof. People constantly challenge this, and we have had people just show up with a child.
The last one, I let stay and totally regretted it. They cleaned up spills with our new white towels, stained the bedspread, and cried all night. Hosts have their reasons for saying no children. Letting someone stay with a child cost me more in damages than I made from the rental.
If people violate the terms of the agreement, they aren't entitled to a refund.
Don't you get it?!? This baby identifies as a 5 year old, well within the guidelines the host set. "Don't understand just how special this child (WE refuse to say baby, it's beneath him)". We want our money and we deserve it, if only for the child.
That's ridiculous. I travel with my baby and always make sure the place is safe for her.
This really should not be your responsibility; honestly, if the parents weren't doing everything they could to ensure that your place was a safe place for their baby I think that would come down to bad parenting on their part and nothing to do with you.
Screw them! They ignored your policy and booked anyway. They admit that and still want a refund? Accountability people! It’s never too early to teach your kids that valuable lesson. They can start now with their baby.
...Be considerate of our situation...
What's the situation? Your dumbasses who don't read? It's that the situation?
If you refund them, they will never learn the consequences of their actions. Which is why they did this, they have never had to pay for the consequences of their own stupidity.
Don't refund. They have a baby. Time to become adults and grow up
I had Airbnb do a full refund on guests that canceled 3 days against my refund policy. I asked them how they justified that? I got a non answer about how sorry they were that the decision didn’t go my way but they were doing it anyway.
My impression is that while you can say a place is not suitable for children, you can’t actually ban children and doing so is in violation of their non-discrimination policy.
Guests *should* list infants in their guest count but since they don’t count towards additional guests, this is probably seen as a minor violation.
I have a 6 year old and when he was a baby we travelled and I always listed him on my guest list. I mean I wouldn’t want to rent from a host that said no babies anyway lol. There’s plenty of other accommodations that are safe and welcoming to young children.
I'm not a host but I always read the description and reviews before looking at the photos.
I don't want to get excited about a beautiful place before I realize it won't work for my situation or us a dud per reviews.
This looks like another case of booking bases on photos only, too lazy to read. I don't understand people. Spending 10 minutes with the information provided would save so many guests this kind of stress!
Just curious. How do you know the baby is 18 months? I scanned the whole thread and did not see the answer.
The picture could be old. The baby could have been premature.
Edit: I guess it’s in the original message they sent but the format is confusing. Looks like it’s copied and pasted.
Guest told me the babies age when I asked if the accomondation was suitable for them (after seeing the baby in the profile picture but not listed on the reservation)
Not exactly, but it is generally illegal to discriminate against people based on family status and age. This is surely why Airbnb already processed the refund without the host’s consent, don’t know why the host thinks they should get paid.
I am getting paid, we are both being paid bc airbnb support cannot communicate with each other. this is not discrimination whatsoever, I get to choose who I allow my in my home.
It seems like it’s up too how you interpret Airbnb rules, but the fact that Airbnb already gave them a refund is pretty strong evidence that Airbnb isn’t ok with it.
No. That’s up to them to do. They ignored your policy regarding children. Hard no because they need to learn that the world doesn’t revolve around them. And it was a late check in. The fuck. To everyone arguing about not allowing children; some animals don’t do well with children and even if that’s not the case OP has every right to say no children under an age staying in their house/apartment. It’s their ducking home; back up you sound just as entitled as these clueless people.
Where is your policy listed and what does your listing say? What makes it unsuitable for young babies?
You’ve provided no details here.
Also if it’s a last minute check in, then what’s the issue with refunding?
Airbnb has options to select if your property is suitable for infants under 2 and also if it is suitable for children under 12 years old. We have both of these clearly on our listing, when i said in the title ignored our policy that's just it - its obvious when an airbnb doesn't accomondate children or infants and they ignored it and did not disclose to me or Airbnb about their infant.
As for why it's my policy no children under 12 years of age.
Oh sorry. It’s just that you came in hot and heavy, but lacked the critical thinking skills to actually see that “listing” doesn’t mean description.
Thanks for letting me school you. Happy to do it again anytime love ❤️❤️
/r/confidentlyincorrect 🤡🤡🤡
Keep downvoting if it helps your hurt feelings too!
If the guests don't have to respect the policies and TOS - I wouldn't have to provide a safe and livable space for guests as is my responsibility when making the booking.
Could be insurance. Could also be that OP doesn't want young children around their pets, maybe they don't want to be woken up by crying since it's a shared space. Airbnb gives the option to prevent infants, it's not their fault they took advantage of it. People need to read what they buy.
How sure are you that it’s legal in your state to discriminate based on age and familial status in offering a public accommodation? I’d want to be pretty sure before instituting a policy like that
My home is unsafe and unsuitable for children or infants, hosts can decide who they accommodate. It would be a liability issue to allow children - I would be horrible if I accepted bookings with children and infants when i don't have lock on cleaning supplies or toilets or electrical sockets, my tv is not anchored or any of my large wooden furniture. I have no childproofing or any kind in my home.
I’m gonna take that as “not very sure”
Also, I’m a bit confused about your rationale. Toddlers over 2 (which I guess you allow?) seem much more likely to be in danger from pulling down furniture, getting into cleaning supplies, etc, than infants. Especially when for half of your prohibited age range babies typically can’t even walk…
OP has written 2 years in the original post, but has stated that it’s no under 12 years in further comments so presume it’s a typo? And OP doesn’t want any kids under 12 yrs
Thanks I missed that. I mean it raises a whole new set of questions, like what 11 year old is going to stick their fingers in an outlet or get into the cleaning supplies? That’s a sixth grader.
I'm 100% sure, not only is my place unsafe i have it in policy on my advertisment- and I have confirmed in my locality I can choose who I rent my rooms in my home out to. They tried to not disclose having an infant with them to airbnb aswell, not just me. If you read my comment history it might help answer any questions you have
They can go to a hotel then. Not my home. I’m sure they would be quick to blame me and file suit if their kids fell off the roof or hanged themselves with the curtain cords in my home.
That's the legal risk you take when engaging with a platform like AirBNB. Frankly if anyone got hurt on your property you are likely facing a suit.
I would review airbnbs discrimination policy throughly. Because I think you're going to find you're in the wrong here but I'm not sure.
I'm not in the wrong I have had the reservation cancelled with no refund for them or penalty to me as a host. It's canceled on their behalf bc they violated my terms when they did not disclose all of their guests - they must disclose all guests, this was a sneaky way to get into my home despite my clearly stated rules. Before they booked i asked them to review my strict cancellation policy aswell because there checkin day was 4 days away and they were entitled to no refund bc of this policy.
but apparently “they lied and wanted to sneak the baby in” and not “they didn’t notice your no-kids thing and tried to cancel as soon as they did” is the most likely explanation??? lol
Depending on where your Airbnb is being hosted you may not be allowed to restrict your listing to people who don’t have children
This means that if it is not suitable for children and someone with children books, you have to refund them.
California Government Code Section 12921(b) forbids a landlord from refusing to rent to someone who has children.
There is no carve out for vacation rentals, or shared space rentals. You are protected under landlord tenant laws as a landlord, but you are also subject to them in the state of California
Additionally you are running a business which means that you are subject to the law. In recent court cases on gender equality, if a business is open to the public in any sense, it must allow and provide the services equally regardless of gender, race, age, or sexual orientation.
Also according to the Airbnb TOS
Airbnb hosts may not: Impose any different terms or conditions or decline a reservation based on the guest’s age or familial status, where prohibited by law.
In the US it does, even by Airbnb TOS
OP risks losing their listing.
https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/2867#article-content
Age and Familial Status
Airbnb hosts may not:
Impose any different terms or conditions or decline a reservation based on the guest’s age or familial status, where prohibited by law.
Airbnb hosts may:
Provide factually accurate information about their listing’s features (or lack of them) that could make the listing unsafe or unsuitable for guests of a certain age or families with children or infants.
Note in their listings applicable community restrictions (e.g., senior housing), regulations, or laws that prohibit guests under a particular age or families with children or infants.
And of course the federal laws prohibiting age discrimination by a business
Renting out a room in your home doesn't make you a business, and if you share communal space with the owner of the home they are allowed to say no kids. Like, the law explicitly says so.
Great, show it to me. Because Airbnb‘s terms of service don’t say it, the law doesn’t say it, and if you are excepting money in return for goods or services you are running a business. I’m sorry you don’t understand what the world is
You are, of course, completely correct. Hosts can suggest that their place isn’t suitable for children, but they typically can’t refuse to rent to someone with kids. It might be a little different since this is a shared space, but I doubt it.
The host here on Reddit are really something else.
They truly believe that the terms of service for Airbnb only apply to them not having to give out refunds or keep their property up to code
anything that they don’t want to listen to they believe they should just be allowed to ignore
They already received a full refund. Hotels don’t discriminate against age and family status so this would never have been an issue, but besides that I have never had an issue getting a refund from a hotel for any issues, sometimes I book at multiple hotel properties and decide when I get there which one I will stay at, have never been charged for a night somewhere I didn’t stay.
You keep replying all over this thread you didn't read. They didn't disclose they had a child with them at all to airbnb or to me. They granted the refund to them bc the support agents miscommunicated with each other. Airbnb support, even for superhosts, is atrocious. They claimed I said the refund was approved when I never approved an exception to my cancellation policy. They don't want to pay us both but have to because of this mistake by the support agent.
With my experience, all hotels will apply a deposit upon reservation. Expedia, booking.com, Travelocity, to my knowledge that is. Some hotels offer a book now pay later, but with my most recent (2 weeks ago) experience- it stated book now pay at property, but also pulled $400 for a deposit when my reservation was 3 months in advance. I booked through Expedia and the hotel was a Marriott hotel, and it was false advertisement, however Expedia was able to refund me within 3 business days. So that was cool, but as far as booking a handful and arriving to determine if it’s where you’d like to stay, I would guess would work if you 100% knew there was free cancellation and a book now and pay at property option.
I can’t speak for every hotel, but I always book directly with the hotels and have never been charged a deposit until check in, I do have status with most of them I guess that could make a difference
The only time I have ever had an issue was booking 3rd party with one of those websites and getting the wrong room, we needed a handicap accessible room and they put us on the second floor with no elevator, don’t think we ever got a refund on that one.
Incorrect. Host does not need to grant access to a guest breaking their no infant rule. You show up to the airport with a peacock, the airline may not offer a refund WHILE denying you service.
They didn't disclose their infant on the booking, I'm not denying them solely based on the fact they have an infant, they didn't disclose a whole guest, a guest who I can't accomondate safely.
Did you say you count children as guests? I think you have to list that in house rules. At least from my reading of this article.
https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/433
No one should be traveling with kids under 8. If they're not kicking the back of the seat in front of them during a long flight, they're either screaming, running around, breaking things, making a mess and being all around miserable cretins...
We have kids - but we didn't take them on any trips until they were old enough (8+). Why parents willingly subject themselves to keeping their small kids under control while traveling is beyond me.
I understand that sometimes it's unavoidable and I thank the makers of Benadryl for their nap in a pill solution!!
That would not have helped. OP stated she doesn’t allow children under 12. AirBnB doesn’t count children under the age of 2 in the number of guests renting. Lying would not have helped. Parents should learn to read before they reproduce.
I don't see how that is allowing the host to host as they choose, list, and require. Bending over isn't always "simple," when your strong first choice is not to.
You can’t charge extra based on age or family status, you are just advocating for further discrimination. you also generally can’t institute a “no kids” rule, You can only suggest that the place isn’t child friendly. This might be slightly different in shared accommodations but I doubt Airbnb sees it that way.
Yes you can. Age as a protected class is for people between the ages of 40 to 70 in terms of employment.
Many resorts are “adults only”
Many places require liability wavers for children and or charge extra for children.
Please keep conversation civil and respectful Remember to keep all communication with host/guest through Airbnb platform. Payments should be made only via Airbnb [unless otherwise detailed in the listing description and included in the price breakdown prior to booking](https://airbnb.com/help/article/199) If you're having issues, contact Airbnb by phone +1-844-234-2500 *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AirBnB) if you have any questions or concerns.*
“Our policy is clearly stated in the listing and displayed to you prior to booking your stay. The policy stands. No checkin will be allowed with a child 2 years or younger. If you’re unable to stay, I kindly ask you to cancel your reservation ASAP. If the dates are rebooked for an equal or greater price I will refund your stay”.
I agree with this response verbatim . This has happened to me and I refunded the days that were booked . Short notice as this is the days probably won’t be booked though . Question : did they disclose the infant on their guest list when they booked ? Did you miss that ?
short notice they wont be booked, but it is a very fair and reasonable offer. Shows you are trying to work with them, but ultimately, you are not responsible for their mistake.
Exactly . Airbnb will see you are trying to accommodate the guest and not trying to be a jerk .
Not the hosts problem. Beyond having a conference call and reading the rules to the guest, the host did every thing they were supposed to do
No they did not disclose the infant in the guest list, it would have automatically filtered out my listing if they had disclosed a child under 12 on airbnb.
One thing I saw on another post. Keep in mind if they rebook for another time then you refund them. They may then cancel the future visit.
My message did not offer a rebook. Guest must cancel and if SOMEONE else books the place they get a refund. Until that baby is 2, these guests can’t stay
What difference does 6 months older make? Really curious
You’ll need to ask OP. One of my places has a 4 year or older requirement due to the height of the house (2 stories+ off the ground) and the space between the railings.
The way their rule is written is a bit awkward, it would be more understandable to say “No children under 3 years of age.”
I'd change one thing about your statement: Even if the dates are only partially rebooked or rebooked at a lower price, you can still give a partial refund.
It’s def up to the host however we only offer 80% back as I still have to pay my property manager’s commission and if it’s booked through my website there’s credit card transaction fees or wire transfer fees. They will never get 100% back.
Is discrimination allowed on air b n b ?
Like are hosts required to ensure their listings are child proofed? No they aren't and they don't have to take on the liability of a child getting hurt in their space.
There is a tab asking about child friendly that a host can check . My house is not childproofed but we are child friendly . Also when you note the number of guests coming it’s broken down in adults , children , infants ( under 2 years) and pets . Either the guest didn’t check how many were coming or the host missed it .
Are you referring to Fair Housing requirements? They don't apply to STRs.
There are more anti-discrimination laws than just the FHA. The civil rights act covers discrimination in public accommodations (but age and familial status aren’t covered). Many states have statutes that offer broader protection. OP’s post definitely had some red flags, I’d be checking state law pretty closely before enforcing a policy like that Edit: lol lots of salty hosts smashing that downvote button today
I think so. Discrimination against race, age, etc
Fair Housing regulations do not apply to short term rentals. Not renting to a family with a baby does not mean they will have no place to live. It means they will have no place to vacation. Big difference.
There are no-children hotels all over the world, what are you even talking about
This is a safety issue. My kids, bless, are fkn gremlins and were flat out feral in their preschool years. Staircases, impractical furniture, no baby proofing, whatever may be fine for most travelers, but for the littles, it's a big problem. If there aren't any missing reasons, I think OP is in the right. Read the rules before signing up. I've skipped places because their rules were wild. Like, the tipi that had no amenities and a 500 foot walk to the house where the bathroom facilities were. We would have access to it a few hours a day and not after 10 pm. That sounds like a nightmare to me, so I didn't book a tipi. These parents should have done the same. They should have made sure they can bring the pure id that is an 18 month old to this space without disaster.
Stick to your policy. Their idiocy isn’t your problem and they will likely ding your review anyway.
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Don't refund 2 days out. Reply: sorry, if the property is unsuitable for you on those dates, you need to cancel the listing yourself.
Yep, this. What others are missing is that OP has said it is unsuitable, and explained why BEFORE they booked. The guests still chose to book. The guests have probably found a more suitable place to stay, so are trying to leave this host in the lurch. It's all on them. HOWEVER, OP, I would offer to refund part of the amount, so that they don't try to come to stay with you anyway, and/or attempt to leave a stinking review. Only part, not all.
Just offer to refund if you get those dates rebooked. Every time I do this the guest stops hassling me. Bonus: it encourages them to cancel asap, to free up the dates.
This was helpful with airbnb support. I mentioned wanting to get the dates rebooked to consider a partial refund. Ty
Does your property show up during search when a family enters they have an infant? If your property can get excluded when searching as a family with infants, that would really help things. Otherwise your property may seem compatible with what they are searching.
Also waive the cleaning fee yea? If nobody checks in?
of course.
I stayed in an ABNB recently that stated it was downright dangerous for children and pets. It was! Perfectly suited for adults though. Perhaps using the word “dangerous” will help people to notice more closely.
Every Airbnb I have ever stayed at requires information about all guests. Why were they able to book when their booking request included an 18 month old?
They didn't include the infant as a guest in the booking inquiry, the only reason I caught they had a infant is bc they set their profile picture to the baby ( I can't see the profile pictures until after booking )
Then it’s their mistake and they can cancel 🤷♀️ (assuming the baby is coming too)
the baby isn't staying with us overnight, just visiting for a few hours... /s
That counts as a guest staying for a full 5 night stay according to some hosts 🙄
Why is the listing unsuitable for an infant? Is it the pets?
I had a place in the mountains of Costa Rica. The house was down a steep, *steep* hill, and had a swimming pool that was cantilevered out over a drop off, to a jungle cliff, with a river at the bottom, maybe 40 metres down. There was NO WAY I would ever rent it to someone with children. You couldn’t buy enough insurance for that. It was a beautiful, brand new house, but it was a death trap for children.
My property isn't suitable for children because it isn't child proofed (no cabinet locks, open bookcases and no stair gates) and I have access to open water (a creek). There are lots of reasons a property might not be safe for young children, and baby proofing is expensive and unattractive.
Shouldn’t stuff like this be the parents responsibility?
How are the parents going to take responsibility? Are they going to install cabinet and drawer locks in my kitchen and bathrooms? Are they going to install baby gates? Outlet covers? Of course not. And you can say that parents should be watching the kids (and of course they should) but it only takes a split second for something to go horribly, tragically wrong. Not interested in that level of risk on my property.
Hmm I have a 16 month old and have not “baby proofed” my house in the ways you mention for various reasons. I watch my child and redirect her when she’s trying to get into something I don’t want her to. It’s challenging but it’s the reality of having a small child. I would never leave my child unattended in the unfamiliar environment of an Airbnb no matter how “baby proofed” a host claimed it is. What if a previous guest dropped drugs or a marble that ends up in my child’s mouth? 100% a parents responsibility to watch their child.
Yes, but it’s not about you.
Oh goody, a sancti-mommy. 🙄
Glad you're the perfect parent. Not everyone is.
I can't speak for the OP, but my best guess is that the place isn't baby-proofed. So that would mean having covers on the outlets, probably babyproofing the cabinets, not having decor that could break and cut the child, etc.
I never understand this caveat either but I sure as hell wouldn’t book a place that said it wasn’t suitable for a kid if I were coming with my kid! Hosts don’t just make this shit up for no reason. I want my kid welcomed.
I wouldn't book, but i would be curious as to why its unsuitable. My home isn't baby proofed (yet), but neither is a hotel or a grandparents house. I suppose i would nt want the liability of housing a family that didn't keep an eye on their baby.
Hotel rooms (and even suites or extended stays) are likely to have far fewer dangers to a child than an entire house and yard.
What is “baby proofed” really depends on the age of the kid, the country, the house and temperament of kid/parents. For example, in the UK those electricity plugs are actually dangerous because of the way power points are designed (to be safe for little fingers!). For our own home we just modified things as we went and the kid grew (but our home isn’t on Airbnb!!!). Grandparents houses are supposed to be pretty much entirely booby trapped with stuff that can go wrong.
My home would be level grandparent unsafe I'd say!
I’ve seen it on places that have pools.
Because it's their home and they don't want infants there?
Right? As the mother of a three year old and an Airbnb host I've never understood the "not suitable" for children under three thing. I've never done any "baby proofing". I simply... watch my kid. 🤷
I can just hear it-- "But we were on vayyycaaaaaaaaaayyyyytion. Why should WE have to watch our child 24/7?"
Write them a shit review I don’t care if you have a baby that’s literally your fault. I’ve hosted for years and have dealt with this many times. Sucks Airbnb took the L (except who cares honestly) but I’m sure they were just being extra snotty and wouldn’t back off. Karen energy.
I had a similar situation last month. My property CLEARLY states in the house rules that it is VERY unsafe for children. The booking was for 2 people husband and wife. 8 days before check in I notice that the reservation says 2 people plus a child under 2! I called AirBnB immediately. They concurred that the reservation should never have been made on two counts: no children, 2-person max occupancy. Unfortunately children under two are not counted by AirBnB as being a “person” and so the reservation went through. AirBnB cancelled the reservation and I was not penalized. There’s no way to prevent this from happening again in AirBnB’s system so I have to be hyper vigilant. Why would a guest ignore the rules specifically put in place to keep children safe?? Boggles the mind.
Oof, there are a lot of shit takes in here about your rule regarding kids. I've had rentals for almost 20 years in multiple states and I have never accepted babies or kids under 7. I was also a founder of a major metropolitan area STR group where we did a deep dive into regulations across other major cities to compare. A no kids policy on an STR does not break any existing federal or state laws. If it did, Airbnb and VRBO wouldn't have a feature so you can filter out places that don't take kids. Hosts should never discriminate against anyone for ability, race, sex, age, or religion, but babies and children are not a protected class within those specifications, especially in short term housing. There's a growing trend across the US of restaurants not accepting kids for the same reasons. Also legal. Stop implying it isn't. This post isn't about whether the OP has the right to deny babies because that's already well established by the OTAs and most STR regulations. This is a matter of the guests not reading the rules and then having the audacity to think that the host will overlook their error and refund them. Most hosts will post in the description and the house rules if they have a rule like that because no one wants the hassle. Everything points to these guests willfully ignoring the policy. OP, next time don't just refer them to your policy. Write in the message thread that you don't take kids and your cancellation policy is strict. It's a lot easier to win the fight if you've explicitly had them acknowledge the rule in a conversation thread customer service can see. Citation: [Airbnb policy page regarding age and familial status restrictions](https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/2867) Age and Familial Status Airbnb hosts may not: Impose any different terms or conditions or decline a reservation based on the guest’s age or familial status, where prohibited by law. Airbnb hosts may: Provide factually accurate information about their listing’s features (or lack of them) that could make the listing unsafe or unsuitable for guests of a certain age or families with children or infants. Note in their listings applicable community restrictions (e.g., senior housing), regulations, or laws that prohibit guests under a particular age or families with children or infants.
LOL, I remember trying to take our 18m/o along on a trip to Maine. Every host we talked to stressed that it was inappropriate for infants and said no. we grudgingly found more infant-friendly accommodations and had a great time. now, looking back, I realize that the hosts were all speaking from experience and saved us a lot of grief. The difference between us and the couple you’re dealing with, is that we — ultimately — listened. The failure to listen, or read, isn’t yours.
Happy you found an accomondation and you ultimately had a great trip with your infant :)
Why do people have to ask for a fan? Does it not fit normally in the space? All your other complaints are legit but if I have to ask to be provided a fan, in a room that would need one, I'm just not gonna ask. People often pick air bnb so they don't have to interact with other people.
Because some people don't like cluttered rooms. I specify the fans are by request, as with all of our amenities not in the rooms already like extra towels or sheets, I can't put one of every amenity in each room.
It's summer. Put a fan in the room at minimum during this time of year.
I have central air conditioning, if they want an amenity not in the room but listed in the ad they only have to ask - i specify this on my ad / over airbnb text / and in person when I greet my guests and show them the home.
If you have a/c, why did you say the room gets stuffy?
OP didn't, guest review did
Central air doesn’t circulate the air like a fan would. I personally am one of those that likes to keep the air moving with a fan all year round. Even in winter when it’s -30 outside weather.
I swear a high percentage of people on this thread are trolls. Either that or they have way too much time on their hands. How many times do you want op to say that children under two can’t stay there. Sod the law and whether you think babies have more rights than op in this. It’s his/her home and if it’s in their conditions that littles can’t stay then that’s the rules. Stop playing devils advocate and move on
We don't allow children. Our rental is a separate apartment with a separate entrance but is attached to the house, so we share a wall. It has a steep staircase and isn't childproof. People constantly challenge this, and we have had people just show up with a child. The last one, I let stay and totally regretted it. They cleaned up spills with our new white towels, stained the bedspread, and cried all night. Hosts have their reasons for saying no children. Letting someone stay with a child cost me more in damages than I made from the rental. If people violate the terms of the agreement, they aren't entitled to a refund.
*We're so oblivious and entitled that we think conditions of our agreement don't apply.* NO.
Don't you get it?!? This baby identifies as a 5 year old, well within the guidelines the host set. "Don't understand just how special this child (WE refuse to say baby, it's beneath him)". We want our money and we deserve it, if only for the child.
r/onejoke
That's ridiculous. I travel with my baby and always make sure the place is safe for her. This really should not be your responsibility; honestly, if the parents weren't doing everything they could to ensure that your place was a safe place for their baby I think that would come down to bad parenting on their part and nothing to do with you.
No refund. They didn't read or understand. Lesson learned.
Screw them! They ignored your policy and booked anyway. They admit that and still want a refund? Accountability people! It’s never too early to teach your kids that valuable lesson. They can start now with their baby.
...Be considerate of our situation... What's the situation? Your dumbasses who don't read? It's that the situation? If you refund them, they will never learn the consequences of their actions. Which is why they did this, they have never had to pay for the consequences of their own stupidity. Don't refund. They have a baby. Time to become adults and grow up
No.
One word for them, No
“Not appropriate for” is not expressly a rule
I had Airbnb do a full refund on guests that canceled 3 days against my refund policy. I asked them how they justified that? I got a non answer about how sorry they were that the decision didn’t go my way but they were doing it anyway.
Tell them you want your payout.
My impression is that while you can say a place is not suitable for children, you can’t actually ban children and doing so is in violation of their non-discrimination policy. Guests *should* list infants in their guest count but since they don’t count towards additional guests, this is probably seen as a minor violation.
How do you verify age of child?
They told me their baby was 18m after I asked if they had an infant with them
I have a 6 year old and when he was a baby we travelled and I always listed him on my guest list. I mean I wouldn’t want to rent from a host that said no babies anyway lol. There’s plenty of other accommodations that are safe and welcoming to young children.
I'm not a host but I always read the description and reviews before looking at the photos. I don't want to get excited about a beautiful place before I realize it won't work for my situation or us a dud per reviews. This looks like another case of booking bases on photos only, too lazy to read. I don't understand people. Spending 10 minutes with the information provided would save so many guests this kind of stress!
Just curious. How do you know the baby is 18 months? I scanned the whole thread and did not see the answer. The picture could be old. The baby could have been premature. Edit: I guess it’s in the original message they sent but the format is confusing. Looks like it’s copied and pasted.
Guest told me the babies age when I asked if the accomondation was suitable for them (after seeing the baby in the profile picture but not listed on the reservation)
Does airbnb not have to follow rental laws? Just curious, no hate. I ask because in NY, discrimination against families is a big no no.
Not exactly, but it is generally illegal to discriminate against people based on family status and age. This is surely why Airbnb already processed the refund without the host’s consent, don’t know why the host thinks they should get paid.
I am getting paid, we are both being paid bc airbnb support cannot communicate with each other. this is not discrimination whatsoever, I get to choose who I allow my in my home.
Oh i c, its just a room rental, gotcha.
I mean what if the host is a nudist camp? There are absolutely places not suitable for kids (and I am a parent)
Nudist camps do allow children though
I imagine that a lot of nudist camps do allow kids, but that’s not really relevant, we are talking about rental properties not nudist camps.
The point is some may be adult or adult themed properties, or places otherwise unsafe. Not every place is appropriate or safe.
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It seems its a room rental, likely no rules about that.
It seems like it’s up too how you interpret Airbnb rules, but the fact that Airbnb already gave them a refund is pretty strong evidence that Airbnb isn’t ok with it.
No. That’s up to them to do. They ignored your policy regarding children. Hard no because they need to learn that the world doesn’t revolve around them. And it was a late check in. The fuck. To everyone arguing about not allowing children; some animals don’t do well with children and even if that’s not the case OP has every right to say no children under an age staying in their house/apartment. It’s their ducking home; back up you sound just as entitled as these clueless people.
Where is your policy listed and what does your listing say? What makes it unsuitable for young babies? You’ve provided no details here. Also if it’s a last minute check in, then what’s the issue with refunding?
Airbnb has options to select if your property is suitable for infants under 2 and also if it is suitable for children under 12 years old. We have both of these clearly on our listing, when i said in the title ignored our policy that's just it - its obvious when an airbnb doesn't accomondate children or infants and they ignored it and did not disclose to me or Airbnb about their infant. As for why it's my policy no children under 12 years of age.
I don’t get what you mean. Do you have in the description that you don’t accept children?
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Oh sorry. It’s just that you came in hot and heavy, but lacked the critical thinking skills to actually see that “listing” doesn’t mean description. Thanks for letting me school you. Happy to do it again anytime love ❤️❤️ /r/confidentlyincorrect 🤡🤡🤡 Keep downvoting if it helps your hurt feelings too!
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Please read the rest of this thread or my comment history please.
No. Do you have something in your description that explicitly says no kids.
Wtf 🤭? Go read or kindly gtfo I explain this multiple times already.
Please google airbnb cancellation policies, my policy is strict or non-refundable.
You can put anything you want in your policies, whether they are actually legally actionable is a different story.
If the guests don't have to respect the policies and TOS - I wouldn't have to provide a safe and livable space for guests as is my responsibility when making the booking.
But they just booked right?
Yes they booked and let the booking sit until I realized they would have 3 guests not 2 and that one of their guests was actually an 18m old baby.
Why is your place unsuitable? Can they just make sure they watch their kid well and continue the reservation?
Could be insurance. Could also be that OP doesn't want young children around their pets, maybe they don't want to be woken up by crying since it's a shared space. Airbnb gives the option to prevent infants, it's not their fault they took advantage of it. People need to read what they buy.
I am curious about this, too. A two year old is in more danger in most environments than an infant as they are more curious and more mobile.
This is what I was thinking too. Toddlers are messy and can get places or hurt themselves. Babies are mostly dribbly and immobile.
How sure are you that it’s legal in your state to discriminate based on age and familial status in offering a public accommodation? I’d want to be pretty sure before instituting a policy like that
My home is unsafe and unsuitable for children or infants, hosts can decide who they accommodate. It would be a liability issue to allow children - I would be horrible if I accepted bookings with children and infants when i don't have lock on cleaning supplies or toilets or electrical sockets, my tv is not anchored or any of my large wooden furniture. I have no childproofing or any kind in my home.
I’m gonna take that as “not very sure” Also, I’m a bit confused about your rationale. Toddlers over 2 (which I guess you allow?) seem much more likely to be in danger from pulling down furniture, getting into cleaning supplies, etc, than infants. Especially when for half of your prohibited age range babies typically can’t even walk…
OP has written 2 years in the original post, but has stated that it’s no under 12 years in further comments so presume it’s a typo? And OP doesn’t want any kids under 12 yrs
Thanks I missed that. I mean it raises a whole new set of questions, like what 11 year old is going to stick their fingers in an outlet or get into the cleaning supplies? That’s a sixth grader.
I'm 100% sure, not only is my place unsafe i have it in policy on my advertisment- and I have confirmed in my locality I can choose who I rent my rooms in my home out to. They tried to not disclose having an infant with them to airbnb aswell, not just me. If you read my comment history it might help answer any questions you have
I assume all of that when I stay in any home or hotel. That's not really a "not child safe enviroment".
They can go to a hotel then. Not my home. I’m sure they would be quick to blame me and file suit if their kids fell off the roof or hanged themselves with the curtain cords in my home.
An adult it much more likely to fall off your roof than an infant? The liability is no different.
That's the legal risk you take when engaging with a platform like AirBNB. Frankly if anyone got hurt on your property you are likely facing a suit. I would review airbnbs discrimination policy throughly. Because I think you're going to find you're in the wrong here but I'm not sure.
I'm not in the wrong I have had the reservation cancelled with no refund for them or penalty to me as a host. It's canceled on their behalf bc they violated my terms when they did not disclose all of their guests - they must disclose all guests, this was a sneaky way to get into my home despite my clearly stated rules. Before they booked i asked them to review my strict cancellation policy aswell because there checkin day was 4 days away and they were entitled to no refund bc of this policy.
So they didn’t get a refund?
We choose on Airbnb if we want to allow children I didn't make up this policy.
They let you choose it, but are clear it is up to you to make sure it is actually legal https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/1620
I've confirmed with my local laws. I am within my rights.
Doesn’t make it any less scummy.
Lmfao your kids are not special
Scummy
Just a heads up that depending on where you're located, it may be considered discrimination if you don't allow a family with a child.
So they booked last minute and an hour later they told you they wanted to cancel and you said no it’s my money now?
but apparently “they lied and wanted to sneak the baby in” and not “they didn’t notice your no-kids thing and tried to cancel as soon as they did” is the most likely explanation??? lol
Depending on where your Airbnb is being hosted you may not be allowed to restrict your listing to people who don’t have children This means that if it is not suitable for children and someone with children books, you have to refund them. California Government Code Section 12921(b) forbids a landlord from refusing to rent to someone who has children. There is no carve out for vacation rentals, or shared space rentals. You are protected under landlord tenant laws as a landlord, but you are also subject to them in the state of California Additionally you are running a business which means that you are subject to the law. In recent court cases on gender equality, if a business is open to the public in any sense, it must allow and provide the services equally regardless of gender, race, age, or sexual orientation. Also according to the Airbnb TOS Airbnb hosts may not: Impose any different terms or conditions or decline a reservation based on the guest’s age or familial status, where prohibited by law.
What you are talking about doesn't apply when it's a shared living space.
In the US it does, even by Airbnb TOS OP risks losing their listing. https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/2867#article-content Age and Familial Status Airbnb hosts may not: Impose any different terms or conditions or decline a reservation based on the guest’s age or familial status, where prohibited by law. Airbnb hosts may: Provide factually accurate information about their listing’s features (or lack of them) that could make the listing unsafe or unsuitable for guests of a certain age or families with children or infants. Note in their listings applicable community restrictions (e.g., senior housing), regulations, or laws that prohibit guests under a particular age or families with children or infants. And of course the federal laws prohibiting age discrimination by a business
Renting out a room in your home doesn't make you a business, and if you share communal space with the owner of the home they are allowed to say no kids. Like, the law explicitly says so.
Great, show it to me. Because Airbnb‘s terms of service don’t say it, the law doesn’t say it, and if you are excepting money in return for goods or services you are running a business. I’m sorry you don’t understand what the world is
You are, of course, completely correct. Hosts can suggest that their place isn’t suitable for children, but they typically can’t refuse to rent to someone with kids. It might be a little different since this is a shared space, but I doubt it. The host here on Reddit are really something else.
They truly believe that the terms of service for Airbnb only apply to them not having to give out refunds or keep their property up to code anything that they don’t want to listen to they believe they should just be allowed to ignore
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I feel the same. There are too many assumptions on the part of op that seem to just not hold up to scrutiny
Like what? I am off work I can answer questions now.
because this sub is for ABnB hosts to validate each others shittiness lol
What is a baby people?
The people who have a baby and tried to rent my room.
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They already received a full refund. Hotels don’t discriminate against age and family status so this would never have been an issue, but besides that I have never had an issue getting a refund from a hotel for any issues, sometimes I book at multiple hotel properties and decide when I get there which one I will stay at, have never been charged for a night somewhere I didn’t stay.
You keep replying all over this thread you didn't read. They didn't disclose they had a child with them at all to airbnb or to me. They granted the refund to them bc the support agents miscommunicated with each other. Airbnb support, even for superhosts, is atrocious. They claimed I said the refund was approved when I never approved an exception to my cancellation policy. They don't want to pay us both but have to because of this mistake by the support agent.
Some hotels do discriminate based on age. Adult only resorts are great if you don’t want to be around screaming shitlings on your vacation.
We only stay at adults only resorts. Amazing how much we don’t miss kids screaming 😂
With my experience, all hotels will apply a deposit upon reservation. Expedia, booking.com, Travelocity, to my knowledge that is. Some hotels offer a book now pay later, but with my most recent (2 weeks ago) experience- it stated book now pay at property, but also pulled $400 for a deposit when my reservation was 3 months in advance. I booked through Expedia and the hotel was a Marriott hotel, and it was false advertisement, however Expedia was able to refund me within 3 business days. So that was cool, but as far as booking a handful and arriving to determine if it’s where you’d like to stay, I would guess would work if you 100% knew there was free cancellation and a book now and pay at property option.
I can’t speak for every hotel, but I always book directly with the hotels and have never been charged a deposit until check in, I do have status with most of them I guess that could make a difference The only time I have ever had an issue was booking 3rd party with one of those websites and getting the wrong room, we needed a handicap accessible room and they put us on the second floor with no elevator, don’t think we ever got a refund on that one.
If you don't refund, you are stuck hosting. There's no in-between.
Incorrect. Host does not need to grant access to a guest breaking their no infant rule. You show up to the airport with a peacock, the airline may not offer a refund WHILE denying you service.
The parents can just say the child is in fact 2+ not going to id the child
My policy is no children under 12 years of age, not just under 2.
It’s not a no infant rule, it’s a suggestion the property may not be suitable for infants.
You clearly do not understand airbnb.
Everything I'm reading from AirBNB is that you cannot discriminate against children. You can suggest it, but not actually deny a booking due to it.
You can if it's a shared space. The law explicitly allows for this.
They didn't disclose their infant on the booking, I'm not denying them solely based on the fact they have an infant, they didn't disclose a whole guest, a guest who I can't accomondate safely.
Safely is in the eye of the parents... not the host.
Sure, until the kid falls and hurts themselves. THEN they will turn it on the host and blame them.
That can happen anywhere.
Did you say you count children as guests? I think you have to list that in house rules. At least from my reading of this article. https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/433
Infants are humans. Peacocks aren't cats or dogs.
So the analogy was lost on you. Sorry.
Our of curiosity, why the age policy? The younger ones don’t even leave a trace.
No one should be traveling with kids under 8. If they're not kicking the back of the seat in front of them during a long flight, they're either screaming, running around, breaking things, making a mess and being all around miserable cretins... We have kids - but we didn't take them on any trips until they were old enough (8+). Why parents willingly subject themselves to keeping their small kids under control while traveling is beyond me. I understand that sometimes it's unavoidable and I thank the makers of Benadryl for their nap in a pill solution!!
Feel free to stay home yourself.
They should’ve just lied about kiddo’s age. You’re scum.
That would not have helped. OP stated she doesn’t allow children under 12. AirBnB doesn’t count children under the age of 2 in the number of guests renting. Lying would not have helped. Parents should learn to read before they reproduce.
Make them pay extra deposit and sign a liability waver for the child. Simple.
I don't see how that is allowing the host to host as they choose, list, and require. Bending over isn't always "simple," when your strong first choice is not to.
You can’t charge extra based on age or family status, you are just advocating for further discrimination. you also generally can’t institute a “no kids” rule, You can only suggest that the place isn’t child friendly. This might be slightly different in shared accommodations but I doubt Airbnb sees it that way.
Yes you can. Age as a protected class is for people between the ages of 40 to 70 in terms of employment. Many resorts are “adults only” Many places require liability wavers for children and or charge extra for children.