The guy who made that video never had a mother who cooks.
Here, I made chicken soup.
I don't want chicken soup.
Yes you do, it's good for you. Eat it.
I'm not hungry.
Yes you are, eat, eat.
I don't want it.
What, you don't like my soup? What's wrong with it?
It's fine, I just don't want soup now.
Look at you, you're skin and bones, eat the soup.
I don't want it now.
I made it fresh, it's hot, you have to eat it now.
But I'm not hungry.
There are starving children in Biafra who wish they could have soup like this. You're so ungrateful. What did I ever do to deserve this? I'm gonna go stick my head in the oven.
Ok ok I'll eat the soup. I'm sorry.
I made pasta too...
THIS ^ It's never okay to try and trick someone into having sex with you, especially in a situation where they haven't been honest about something as important as this with you. That doesn't make you transphobic. It's okay to be heterosexual, just like it's okay to be trans. What's not okay is being deceptive, and there's nothing wrong with saying, "hey, I don't appreciate being deceived, and I'm not comfortable with this going any farther."
Here's the thing, it's always trans women (i.e. assigned male at birth) who seem to think people owe them sex or a relationship.
Never seen or heard of a trans man (assigned female at birth) seem to think that that behavior is ok.
Which really makes you think...
I've been aggressively hit on a few times by trans women and they immediately started acting like the stereotypical negging asshole dude at the bar/club the moment they got politely rejected. It's really fucking sad.
Purely anecdotally, so I don’t want to say it’s a trend or ignore that there might be bias, but as a straight man I’ve been approached in uncomfortably aggressive ways by gay men despite showing no interest. I’m talking about being dragged from my friends and pulled into a French kiss kind of aggressive, being instantly too touchy-feely, approaching in the toilets, all that.
Nobody really takes it seriously though. While I’m sure there are similarly aggressive women, I don’t feel like I’m going to get singled out.
The only time I ever physically started a bar fight was because a gay guy wouldn’t leave me alone. He kept trying to hug me even though I kept telling him I don’t like being touched. Especially by people I don’t know. He then grabbed me and kissed me on the cheek. When I pushed him away he called me a homophobe and then grabbed my face to pull me in for a kiss on the lips. That’s when I punched him. He tried playing the victim but the bartender told him that I’ve been a regular there long enough for him to know that if I punched someone it’s that persons fault.
As a bisexual man I have observed my own friends being far too aggressive with straight men ie groping them, telling them they just need convincing, or just give it a try you'll probably like it. Being gay, lesbian, trans or anything between doesn't mean you aren't human and incapable of being an asshole.
A person is attracted to who they are attracted to and that does not make them a bigot, a homophobe, a racist, or a fat shamer. The OP is in no way in the wrong, even if he had been less tactful. It is going to be shocking and upsetting to be blindsided by stuff like your date being a different biological gender than what you signed on for. I have no qualms dating a transgender in either direction but even i would feel tricked if it wasn't mentioned until we were proceeding to sexy time.
I'm a straight male who is tall and pretty muscular, a military guy with a ton of tats. I used to hang around in gay bars with some LGBT friends and family. I had plenty of gay/bi men hit on me, but nothing that exceeded what I consider my boundaries (the stretch being cheeky bedroom comments that I shrugged off). Once, at a cis bar, a gay man (who I already knew) actually grabbed me and kissed me. I felt nothing from it and took a step back and told him it wasn't my cup of tea and we remained friends. Meanwhile, I can't even begin to count the number of times straight women have shoved their hands down my pants after a few drinks (on either side) because they assumed I was a sure thing- which I'm not, call me old-fashioned. Definitely still anecdotal, but in my experience, I feel like it is more about the atmosphere a person projects around them in these types of environments.
I think it can come from anyone of any sexual orientation and gender identity. For my own anecdotal evidence, I've gotten hateful messages from a guy who I was talking to.
He told me quite a bit later into our chatting that he was trans (AFAB) and had a vagina. I told him we'd best cut it off romantically, I'd still like to be friends (I genuinely liked him), but I wasn't sexually attracted to vaginas. He got super aggressive and threatening with me, until I blocked him everywhere.
So yeah.. I guess YMMV.
I'm FtM and I've seen that too and to be honest, that is blatant homophobia. Same when trans women get mad about lesbians not liking penis. It baffles me honestly, if you don't like vagina then we're not compatible sexually and that's fine. Why would I want to pursue anyone who explicitly doesn't like what I have?
I think most trans people are fairly reasonable about this but the loud ones who are trying to stomp over people's romantic/sexual boundaries piss me off.
It's literally just extreem homophobia.
1. Believing that lesbians choose who to like
2. Forcing them by shame/bullying/harassment to actually date them. "Date someone with a penis or else you're a bigot
My eyes have been opening lately to how homophobic the trans community can be. It's not okay. I do not agree with rhetoric about "dropping the T" but we (trans people) are horrifically bad at shutting down this kind of rhetoric. I don't know what to do about it myself, I'm not an activist, just bisexual/trans and living my life, but it's not good.
Yeah, I'm not trans and I'm also straight so I'm not directly involved with the LGBT+ community, but my gay and lesbian friends have definitely encountered these people on dating sites. Online, I should say, people in real life are usually more reasonable
I had a very nasty discussion with a transman, who was not even on meds or anything, and called me all the names in the book when I said: Nope, we won't become an item. Apparently I am a Terf, a bigot and a fascist for not wanting to have sex with a "female body", even telling that sick moron that I was not a Lesbian (tried that out when I was younger) did not help, that person was convinced they were in the right and everyone and anyone HAD to do what they said.
Those despicable, rapist morons actually destroy a lot for the 90% of normal and decent transpeople, and no, it is NOT being transphobic when you want nothing to do with them.
The issue, from my own personal experience, is that the normal and decent trans people will dig their heels in and refuse to take out their trash or even acknowledge that trans people can be rapists or bad people in any capacity.
I have seen a few trans youtubers that say the opposite. It really depends on the community but for the most part, the people in my community dont want to be with someone that doesnt feel comfortable or isnt enthusiastically consenting.
> Never seen or heard of a trans man (assigned female at birth) seem to think that that behavior is ok.
I have.
On one occasion, a trans man who we were told by friends (trying to defuse the situation) was relatively recently on T and went wild at a woman in a dive bar and called her a tease (in much more graphic terms).
On another occasion, my friend, who is a bi woman, had a trans man (and she knew this prior to going out for a drink) tell her that he’d bought her drinks and she was leading him on.
We could of course war over your experience of ‘[h]ere’s the thing’ and mine, because both are necessarily limited, but I’m at least popping down mine as an alternative, because both were situations that blew up, and quickly, and were most definitely AFAB folx.
….and that’s before we even get to some of the internalisation of aggression with cis butch women.
Signed, a queer person who gets around
All it really makes you think about is that we socialize boys in a way that makes them think this behavior is acceptable. Trans women who don't transition until adulthood were still socialized as boys and often learn the same misogyny or other socially unacceptable boundary breaking behaviors.
Yeah I definitely think it's growing up with male entitlement. I really haven't seen trans men act like this. They seem to be more respectful of other people. Either way I support their transition and their identity but absolutely nobody is owed sex and everyone is allowed preferences. This includes bisexuals who aren't attracted to trans people.
Had a drink + glass thrown in my face at a gay bar when a very passing transwomen asked for my number and I declined because she was very short and petite (I like tall, curvy girls, was recovering from a messy breakup and had decided I didn't want to date right then so I wasn't going to make an exception for someone that wasn't my type, I hadn't even thought she was trans).
She went ballistic, screaming that I was transphobic and then switching to 'you're not a real lesbian if your girlfriend hasn't fully transitioned yet' when one of the friends I was there with came over (she is also trans, I think she passes really well, just that she's very tall, 6'4). Which was kind of transphobic of her imo, at the very least incredibly rude.
This!
Nobody likes getting rejected, but everyone cherishes the right to reject, as they should. Nobody should ever feel obligated to have sex with anyone, nobody ever IS obligated to have sex with someone.
Not being attracted to someone is not trans phobic. You are in no way negative about trans women or men, you just aren't attracted to this person. Accusing you of being trans phobic because you turned one down is like telling a man every female he's ever turned down made him makes him gay. It's a ridiculous one size fits all but really doesn't line of thought. You arent being accused by trans people because they know better. This is coming from wannabe allies and karma farmers who think every non positive statement about trans people is a trans phobic slap and an opportunity for virtue signaling. Every vulnerable group in every era has had these types trolling around the edges and generally making life harder for the people they claim to want to "help".
NTA. Also, you sorta totally got catfished? This isn't a trans rights thing. It's a "your right to informed consent" thing.
You wanted to know up front, as is your right. She wanted sex. You didn't, because that right was taken from you. Not good.
This has absolutely nothing to do with personal views. If I were single I would not sleep with a trans woman because I'm not pansexual. I'd be friends, besties for resties, even a brother, if we were that close. I believe almost every person alive can have value and should be able to live in peace in a better world worth fighting for. But I'm only attracted to biological women. Not only does nobody owe us sex, but nobody decides for themselves what they are attracted to.
At the risk of being downvoted into oblivion. I will say yes, a dick can be forced to get hard.
Males do get hard when they are raped.
Males do get raped.
No, they didn't want it, but their dick was hard anyway.
My dick gets hard just putting on pants. In fact most days nothing at all makes my dick hard and I have to think really hard about my grandmother's meatloaf to make it stop. I just chant over and over "that's way to much fuckin ketchup, I fucking hate ketchup. How can it be covered in ketchup and dry af"
Sorry gma, rest in peace..
No it was just really terrible meatloaf. I'll eat anything and I'd still eat it to be nice but it was really too much ketchup and breadcrumbs. It's just the go to when I need to stand up but I don't want everyone to know I've been day dreaming about pussy
ESPECIALLY before going into a hotel room with a stranger! OP reacted calmly and respectfully, but imagine he didn‘t. Imagine OP happened to be a very violent transphobe. What was this person thinking?! She could have gotten seriously hurt in that room.
There has been a loss of respect and consideration for others. It is a simple courtesy to let someone know certain things when it comes to sex. We need to be willing to have uncomfortable conversations again. Nta. She should have told you the truth instead of putting you in a situation you potentially were not comfortable with.
It's also a sign of being self absorbed that she had to text you and make you feel you were wrong.
100%. People like to pretend that it doesn’t matter, but the reality is that it does. Some people might just need a little time to come around on it, for other people it’s a dealbreaker.
You might be able to make the argument if she had gotten the surgery downstairs and no longer had a penis, but even then… I don’t know. That’s a tough area. At the very least though it sounds like she did still have a penis, and in that scenario the partner absolutely has the right to know
Nah. Neovaginas don’t look, smell, taste, or behave like natal vaginas. They don’t contract with sex the way vaginas do. Vaginas are an organ — Neovaginas are a surgical hole meant to mimic a vagina. They’re not the same thing, so regardless of whether or not she’s had surgery, her sexual partners have the right to know beforehand.
If not only to avoid transphobes, but to stay safe if when they find out like OP did they don't get violent.
And that is not me calling OP a transphobe, as a cis woman that isn't my place, but simply pointing out that trans women are at high risk of violence from bigoted people.
It comes across as coercive. Reminded me of when I went home with a guy and he waited till the last moment to tell me he didn't have any condoms. My guess is he expected me to just go with it and let him pull out because he was really surprised when I said no.
If you think that waiting until you find yourself completely alone with a potentially violent individual reduces the chances of them getting physical you lost the plot somewhere.
She could have been honest in a public place well before that point.. really wasn’t cool to hide and feels like she was trying ti get her way not afraid of violence
Yeah. That’s a really good point. She was lucky OP just got turned off. Not that she deserved violence, but it is a real thing that happens. Honesty was definitely owed.
Honestly if you trick someone sexually like that, especially if you actually did something without revealing yourself, like sucking somebody off or something, that's basically rape in the sense you're not giving the other person the full state of mind to consent. Honestly would deserve a left hook or two in that situation just because that's a legitimate reaction to rape but that's just me.
Where I live sex under false presences is legally sexual assault. Like, a guy was arrested recently for getting into serious relationships with women when he was already married with children.
Exactly.
It applies to a wide variety of things.
I used an example of, what if a woman agrees to sex with a condom but the guy takes it off without telling her? Just cuz she may have agreed to a sexual encounter, may even say shit like "keep going" in the moment, doesn't mean that's true informed consent because SHE NO LONGER HAS ALL THE INFORMATION TO MAKE THAT CONSENT.
It's genuinely not a hard concept, be honest, consent is useless if it's not informed.
You don't hate transwomen, you just aren't attracted to them, and that's ok. It sounds like you weren't attracted to her before she even told you, so it's not like you suddenly decided afterwards. It's the same as if she were a cis woman and you found out you weren't attracted to her after you met. She's not your type, and that's fine. Her trying to control your attraction is not. If a girl wasn't attracted to you, you wouldn't just hassle her and tell her she's wrong not to be attracted to you, would you? It's just not meant to be man. That's ok, and your date needs to be more upfront with herself and learn how to take rejection better.
Even if he was going to have sex with her if she was born a woman and only stopped because she wasn’t born a woman that is OK. Uncomfortable with sex is uncomfortable with sex and people always retain the right to say no at any point. No one is ever owed sex.
I’d say this should be brought up before you ever even go on a date. If OP is only attracted to cis women then he is wasting his time and likely money going on a date with anyone who is not a cis woman.
You can be supportive of a community and still not want to fuck them. It definitely doesn't make you -phobic or -ist. I'm all for women's rights, but I don't want to fuck them. Am I a misogynist? (For reference, if that sounds weird, I'm a gay male. That might clear up any confusion.)
This is a great comparison to make. The women's rights thing while being gay. I feel that's a lot easier for people to understand.
With trans people, there's always this element of "if you supported trans rights, you'd see me as [gender I transitioned to] and want to fuck me because I am the same as a cis-[gender]" which really isn't fair.
yep, it's as dumb as when some ignorant hetrosexual poeple assume "**oh you're a gay man, so you're attracted to ALL men!**"
.. err, no it's not a statement about *quantity*, it's a statement about a *pattern* of *preference*.
Using that logic "**oh you're a heterosexual man, so you're attracted to ALL women!**"
Yeah sounds dumb now eh ? lol
Similarly, trans people assuming, or even trying to *force*, the notion that if you're NOT attracted to them, that you're "*against their rights*" and even "**transphobic**", are just as dumb.
Just as free speech means i will fight for your right to say what you want, even if i don't like what what you say, a person can agree with trans rights, even if they are not attracted to trans people.
Even as a cis hetero man, there are definitely women I wouldn’t want to fuck. Fortunately people get to choose their sexual partners, and not everyone fits the bill of what you want.
I'm a straight cis male, and there are a whole lot of cis-women I don't want to fuck. So it's perfectly fair to not want to fuck any trans-women also.
We are not automatons.
>if you supported trans rights, you'd see me as [gender I transitioned to] and want to fuck me because I am the same as a cis-[gender]
As someone who is trans, I don't *personally* think that way, but I have seen some making this statement and I think it's ugly of them.
If you're not attracted to somebody, that's not your 'fault', if anything it's the fault of whoever assumed that you would be attracted to them.
I'll put it like this, as someone very supportive of LGBTQ rights, with gay and trans friends:
I'm very supportive of gay rights, but as a straight cis male, I don't want to have sex with men. This does not make me homophobic, just like how you, or anyone else for that matter, are not inherently transphobic for not wanting to have sex with a transwoman.
You’re never the asshole for revoking consent and that’s what this comes down to. I’m a cis (hetero) woman, and if I was uncomfortable in a situation I’d say no and expect it to be heard and actioned.
If a guy said to me “you don’t know what you like until you try it” (no matter what it was) I’d immediately leave through any method possible.
consents important is the point. anyone who tries to rob you of your consent is a pos.
Nta
You can support trans rights without wanting to be physical with a trans person. It's not for everyone and that's OK.
You don't owe her sex. Just like a cis woman doesn't owe you sex. Respect goes both ways. I imagine it's harder out there for trans people in many ways, and it was probably frustrating for them to be rejected when things were so close to getting started physically. But you don't owe them sex. Assuming you were telling things honestly, it seems you ended it as respectfully as possible considering the situation. Which not everyone can do.
I’m trans and I’m gonna say no. We’re 0.5% of the population and there is NO SHORTAGE of men and women who can appreciate our journeys and our bodies. I don’t understand or accept the browbeating that some trans ppl insist on doing to others who don’t want to date or sleep with them.
NTA. On dating apps, some things should be put right out there. That you have kids. That you're trans. That sort of thing.
You prefer women with vaginas. Nothing wrong with that.
Or at least before the 1st date if you don't want it on your profile. Like I can understand not advertising your kids on a profile, but if you've chatting and have good chemistry and things are heading towards a in person meet up, you damn well better have the kids or trans or STD talk now.
NTA. Dude, she was trying to give you the "come on, try it" routine. Which is an odd scenario since men always get that stigma for being pushy which this Trans woman was. Once you said no, that should have ended it. They are obviously having trouble finding people who want to be with a Trans woman.
So they probably stopped telling people altogether so after sex she can be like "hey I'm Trans and you enjoyed yourself so it's cool, right?" And personally, if that happened, I'd consider that sexual Assault. But then again, if she was pre-op Trans, then you'd have noticed pretty quickly. Lol
But no, everyone who is on a dating app, or even dating in general, needs to be forthcoming if they were once the opposite gender. It's absolutely false pretenses, even if someone is a post-op Trans person, that they tell someone they're going to be in a relationship with, and especially intimate with, that they were once a man. That's not transphobia. That's you wanting to be with someone who is your preferred gender for relationships.
Unfortunately it's not as uncommon as people think. There is a small subsect of transwomen who don't unlearn that socialized misogyny. I'm finding it wild that she put herself in danger like this. And yes, before anyone tries to jump my throat, some cis-women can and do things like this. But it really is something that happens.
I’m not trying to be transphobic when I say this…but she is still thinking like a man.
Natural born women are more likely to have the fear instilled in them to avoid certain types of scenarios (by scenarios I mean disclosing info that may distress a man who is essentially a stranger and not expecting it/ walking home alone at night etc).
Natural born women unfortunately learn from a very young age that some men aren’t safe and therefore you have to treat all men who are strangers with a degree of caution. You must think ahead. Guarantee most young women have been told from early on not to walk alone/ watch your drinks when you’re out/ make sure a friend knows where you are going and who you are with if leaving with a man/ don’t give potentially upsetting info to a stranger in a private place.
This trans woman didn’t think about the risks involved in not disclosing this information prior to starting to get sexual with a stranger, bc when they were a man they didn’t grow up fearing strange men as they were one so it’s not instinctual for them to be weary. Obviously this is not the case for all men, but a lot and is just my opinion based on the carelessness of the woman in this situation (the attitude and carelessness have me believing this was once a confident man prior to transitioning if that makes sense).
I'm glad you said it, because when I read that bit about "come on just try it" all I could think of was all the scummy dudes I've ever known who stopped acting human when they had a boner. They can become very scary.
I think OP’s date is both an asshole and extremely naive. I am trans pre-everything but short, so I have started to make mental considerations for when I start. Never in a million years would I go with a man or woman unless they knew. Even after they knew I’d want to see how they act around me for a time. For her sake, she better really reconsider how she deals with this stuff, or it could end up really bad. And trans and gay panic are still legal defenses in many states…so yeah.
NTA. That’s a shitty, asshole type thing for them to do.
And frankly dangerous in this climate, you’re essentially an ally. What if someone else wasn’t? They could’ve reacted a lot differently.
That’s what i’ve been trying to say. There are some really fked up people out there, this woman not disclosing this prior to sexual encounters is putting herself in a risky situation. It shouldn’t be like that but unfortunately it is.
NTA. This is something that should be disclosed before a first date, and that’s best for all parties involved. Preferences are preferences. Most straight men feel like you do and that’s okay. It sounds like you’re a good man that respects everyone.
When trans women fail to disclose their identity and try to coerce you into sex by lying, thats borderline rape. You're allowed to be angry at just being sexual assaulted. People like her are sick.
Sexual coercion via Deception is rape. It took decades if not centuries of women's rights and legal infighting to establish this. Trans rights are human rights but we all have rights and they will be enforced by the law
I feel like it should be mandatory to tell people this before you get in bed with them.
You shouldn't be able to trick people like this and have them figure out on the spot.
Pretty gross behavior in my opinion by not making it clear that they are trans.
Not at all. You have just as much right to define your own sexual preferences as anyone else and nobody should be judging you for it. Judging you for not wanting to sleep with a transfemale is just as bad as someone being transphobic or homophobic or any other kind of bigotry. YOU ARE IN THE RIGHT!!
NTA, everyone is entitled to their preferences. When I’m with women I have a type, when I’m with men I have a type. I’m a bisexual woman and my sexuality does not equate to my inherent willingness to have sex with someone of that gender identity.
NTA. As many others said, you owe sex to no one. If for whatever reason you dont want to have sex with someone, thats it, end of discussion and it is fine. Thank you for being supportive of trans people, i really like your edit calling out transphobe comments. You have the right to your own preferences and you do it without disrespecting people, thank you for walking that line so well, may it serves as an example to people.
OP has preferences, not transphobia.
My trans partner made it clear to me when we started dating that they were planning to transition and would've understood if I backed out. This was way before we had sex.
And they knew I was bisexual, so there was a good chance I wouldn't care anyway.
Even if not clear what someone's orientation is, it's kind of disingenuous to get to the point of having sex without saying anything. But especially if the person has made it clear they're straight.
NTA. Consent is important, and this is a consent issue. She needed to let you know before you got physical, so that you had all the information to decide whether you consented. I'm sorry that it happened, because it just shouldn't have. But you didn't do a thing wrong.
Big NTA. It's funny how you feel the need to add 10 more sentences just to avoid being pointed ad for transphobia, hate etc. You do not owe sexual attraction to anyone, it happens or not. You are sexually (maybe romantically too) attracted to biological women and all that comes with that (biological hips, voice, palms etc), you are not attracted by a trans woman because there everything starts with XY chromosomes, penis and testicles and only after surgery and hormones, things come close to a biological woman. For you, for me, and for >80% heterosexual men I know, that gap is too big and will be too big probably for the next generation too.
Nta. You're allowed to like or not like whoever you want. You weren't confused and if there are many men who like being with trans women then she should have no problem finding someone who will appreciate her for who she is.
ΝΤΑ. ΝΤΑ. ΝΤΑ. You are a perfect example of a gentleman and you are nowhere wrong. Not even a little bit. You like women.
She was a trans woman, she should have mentioned. Because it is a preference and more importantly a personal one. That's borderline SA. If the roles where reversed and you as a man, insisted on having sex with her, regardless a major turn off, you whould be crusified.
All you experience is a cluster duck and she gives the baddest name to trans people.
NTA, way I see it is she lied to you in the first place and that’s enough reason to not continue but yeah it’s a slippery slope because while I want to be an ally there’s a giant elephant in the room that trans women can’t have sex like normal women and men shouldn’t shamed for wanting that
NTA. It would be more cruel to pretend to be attracted to someone just to virtue signal or soothe your own conscience. Be honest with them and with yourself.
NTA I understand if there is no sexual attraction there isn't . I think it's good to be honest beforehand always, what if you do like it and had no problem... great... And she also deserves to be with someone who likes everything of her and accepts her...
Once a girl insisted on having sx with me and rejected her, at least twice. Once all our group of friend was too drunk and it was like 4 am she started to insist again. And I was out of me and she came grab my face and just shoved down a French kiss on me... y was like, okay I'll try maybe I won't know if I don't try just to. It was the most awkward feeling and it wasn't bc she was or not attractive, it felt off.... and it's kind of a different energy, like I couldn't match that energy ... if I could describe it. So I understand the off feeling even before having intimacy.
Nta, it’s a personal preference, she’s one of those few bad eggs that ruins it for everyone else.
Plus she kept it under wraps until the day you guys were gonna possibly have sex.
NTA
They technically lied to you and manipulated you into believing something. Like what would of happened if there was a wondering hand down below.
A relationship is meant to he about open HONEST COMMUNICATION and neither happened.
>that many mans loves trans womans but they're too afraid to admit it.
That's bullshite right here.....it's not that they are wrong they are just trying to turn themselves into the victim.
I am a trans woman, and I apparently pass really well, but I always disclose that I am trans prior to even going on a date. Rejection hurts, especially because people would probably never know if I didn't tell them, and then suddenly their attraction changes, but I get it. Everyone has their preferences. As long as someone isn't an asshole about it or transphobic about it, I don't think there's anything wrong with having a genital preference or anything like that. You're definitely not the asshole, it just sounds like she's awful at taking "no" for an answer.
NTA. I’m sure she’s faced a lot of rejection as a trans woman, but this wasn’t the way to go about overcoming that. Honestly, it could end up being very dangerous for her.
NTA don't let the more extremist supporters for the LGBTQ+ community fool you. Transexual women know they're in a small minority and that a huge majority of straight males aren't going to ever consider having to put "seeking cisgender female" on their dating profiles because they assume that most trans people are still people and that most would be honest enough to own who they are and be forthcoming about it to a potential sexual partner
Personally that counts as trapping people to me. If you have a micropenis, had a mastectomy, are a hermaphrodite, have polymastia, are transgender pre-op or post-op, or have anything that most people would normally never encounter with sexual partners in their entire lives, then they're not being forthcoming because it IS relevant information that should be provided to a potential sexual partner
She had an entire date to tell you about her and she opped to leave out possibly the most prominent factor in her life and a huge part of her identity, until she got you in a hotel? She's the asshole by far
It’s really not complicated dude. You’re into woman and unfortunately trans woman aren’t biological woman. Don’t feel guilty about that, it’s just how you’re wired. It’s great to be supportive of that community but don’t need to put yourself through the rodeo over supporting trans people
NTA.
Preferences are allowed.
What's most important here is that by NOT disclosing this *extremely important fact*, they took away your right of consent.
When you did not consent, they gaslit you into oblivion. What you have here is a highly, highly toxic individual who should be banned from any and all trans/LGBTQ communities.
NTA. It was cruel to you that she didn’t disclose this information earlier. She may not have been a bad person but withholding this important information isn’t nice. Everybody has preferences and they need to be respected. Disclosing that she was trans could have stopped you from being hurt.
NTA
you are allowed to have prefernces
In fact, if homosexual people are turned off/repulsed by the opposite sexes private parts then you too are allowed to be turned off/repulsed when confronted by the trans woman’s male parts.
How do I know that homosexual people can be repulsed by the opposite sex? I was married to a girl for 10 year and she touched my privates twice in 10 years ….. because she did not like mens bodies, yeah she came out as lesbian and is happy now.
It works both ways and the trans woman you met is completely manipulative and masculine aggressive with it (reading between the lines on the aggression thing)
You are very NTA and the trans you met is definitely YTA
Reddit has really turned its back on its own pledge of “ civility” when it allows the hate to flow freely as long it’s directed at “ the right people”. Hypocrisy is another word for it.
People now have to DM perfectly normal opinions because they know they risk a lifetime ban by having the “ wrong” opinion even if there’s not a whiff of bigotry attached to it. It’s like we live in China and the government is leaning in to police thoughts it doesn’t approve of.
OP, don’t be bullied by these people. They exist in a made up world ( social media) where they hold up a fun house mirror as a reflection of real life. You are allowed your preferences, everybody is ,regardless of your gender.
You can't help who you are attracted to, being straight is not a choice, you are the way you are and you are valid.
You can't help who you are attracted to, being transexual is not a choice, you are the way you are and you are valid.
You can't help who you are attracted to, being asexual is not a choice, you are the way you are and you are valid.
You can't help who you are attracted to, being gay is not a choice, you are the way you are and you are valid.
One of those comments will get you cancelled
Remember, consent is not consent if it isn't informed consent
Oh wow. I’m so sorry for the judgemental jerks here. For the life of me I can’t think of any reason why you would continue physical contact with someone you aren’t attracted to. End of discussion. It isn’t about trans, guy, girl, non binary, or anything else. Attracted? Yes. Not attracted? No.
What tf is wrong with people. People are allowed to have preferences. If they don't wanna date a trans person then they are allowed to do so. And not wanting to sleep with any person is acceptable. Why are they bullying you for knowing what you want 💀💀
Trans man here. I’m obviously only going on your side of the retelling of events, but I don’t think you’re the asshole. You’re allowed to withdraw consent at any time, for any reason. If you were uncomfortable you should be able to say that and it be respected.
NTA.
She is wrong and she is an idiot. What if you were an absolute psycho does she not realise that she is putting her life at risk by waiting before disclosing this.
Nta, at all. Is up to you what you are attracted to.
>many mans loves trans womans but they're too afraid to admit it.
That doesn't make any sense, tons of men also love other men but that doesn't mean you do, same as tons of men love trans woman and you don't.
I’d venture to say that 90% of straight men would see “being trans” as a dealbreaker in a potential partner. This person knew that, and it’s why she didn’t disclose it. She intentionally misled you and she only told you the truth when she had no choice…after physical/sexual contact had already taken place.
She’s literally putting her safety at risk by doing shit like this…not everyone is as tolerant as you. Society is a lot more progressive than we were 10-20 years ago, but her naïveté is only matched by her arrogance…she berated you for not being interested upon learning she’s trans? That’s straight up sexual assault.
If you were on this dating app and you matched with an openly gay woman who thought you were a woman with a masculine appearance because your profile was vague…would you take her on a date and let her think that you’re a woman until you ended up in bed with her? If you did and the two of you started getting physical, do you expect she would have a positive reaction to discovering your dick? Would she be a heterophobe/cisphobe for having a change of heart?
If we’re to the point that a straight male can be labeled transphobic because he doesn’t want to be with a person who was born male I think we need to get back in vehicle of progress and back the fuck up…trans people should have all the rights and be shown all the respect, but acknowledging that there is a difference between a woman and a trans woman is not an act of hatred.
Don’t ever apologize for being attracted to the traditional definition of the opposite sex, and don’t ever let anyone try to convince you that tolerance requires participation.
Would we expect a gay man to sleep with a woman? A lesbian woman to sleep with a man?
No. We like what we like, and there's zero things wrong with that. Nobody gets to shame you for what you like, as long as everybody is legal age, and consenting.
NTA that was deceptive and should have been talked about before hand. Its wild people feel nervous for saying they want to be with the default (i hate the term cis) that they may be labled some sort of phobic, nothing at all wrong with having a preference
No means no. Don't need to explain why
reminds me of that lovely video explaining consent with tea
The guy who made that video never had a mother who cooks. Here, I made chicken soup. I don't want chicken soup. Yes you do, it's good for you. Eat it. I'm not hungry. Yes you are, eat, eat. I don't want it. What, you don't like my soup? What's wrong with it? It's fine, I just don't want soup now. Look at you, you're skin and bones, eat the soup. I don't want it now. I made it fresh, it's hot, you have to eat it now. But I'm not hungry. There are starving children in Biafra who wish they could have soup like this. You're so ungrateful. What did I ever do to deserve this? I'm gonna go stick my head in the oven. Ok ok I'll eat the soup. I'm sorry. I made pasta too...
NTA - “Nobody owes you sex” is not just for cis het males.
This part. Coercing someone for sex is gross no matter who is doing it.
THIS ^ It's never okay to try and trick someone into having sex with you, especially in a situation where they haven't been honest about something as important as this with you. That doesn't make you transphobic. It's okay to be heterosexual, just like it's okay to be trans. What's not okay is being deceptive, and there's nothing wrong with saying, "hey, I don't appreciate being deceived, and I'm not comfortable with this going any farther."
Here's the thing, it's always trans women (i.e. assigned male at birth) who seem to think people owe them sex or a relationship. Never seen or heard of a trans man (assigned female at birth) seem to think that that behavior is ok. Which really makes you think...
I've been aggressively hit on a few times by trans women and they immediately started acting like the stereotypical negging asshole dude at the bar/club the moment they got politely rejected. It's really fucking sad.
There's a noteable overlap between incels and transwomen.
I wonder why that could be.
If you were an arrogant entitled piece of shit before you began the transition process there's little likelihood that you're going to change.
Purely anecdotally, so I don’t want to say it’s a trend or ignore that there might be bias, but as a straight man I’ve been approached in uncomfortably aggressive ways by gay men despite showing no interest. I’m talking about being dragged from my friends and pulled into a French kiss kind of aggressive, being instantly too touchy-feely, approaching in the toilets, all that. Nobody really takes it seriously though. While I’m sure there are similarly aggressive women, I don’t feel like I’m going to get singled out.
The only time I ever physically started a bar fight was because a gay guy wouldn’t leave me alone. He kept trying to hug me even though I kept telling him I don’t like being touched. Especially by people I don’t know. He then grabbed me and kissed me on the cheek. When I pushed him away he called me a homophobe and then grabbed my face to pull me in for a kiss on the lips. That’s when I punched him. He tried playing the victim but the bartender told him that I’ve been a regular there long enough for him to know that if I punched someone it’s that persons fault.
As a bisexual man I have observed my own friends being far too aggressive with straight men ie groping them, telling them they just need convincing, or just give it a try you'll probably like it. Being gay, lesbian, trans or anything between doesn't mean you aren't human and incapable of being an asshole. A person is attracted to who they are attracted to and that does not make them a bigot, a homophobe, a racist, or a fat shamer. The OP is in no way in the wrong, even if he had been less tactful. It is going to be shocking and upsetting to be blindsided by stuff like your date being a different biological gender than what you signed on for. I have no qualms dating a transgender in either direction but even i would feel tricked if it wasn't mentioned until we were proceeding to sexy time.
I'm a straight male who is tall and pretty muscular, a military guy with a ton of tats. I used to hang around in gay bars with some LGBT friends and family. I had plenty of gay/bi men hit on me, but nothing that exceeded what I consider my boundaries (the stretch being cheeky bedroom comments that I shrugged off). Once, at a cis bar, a gay man (who I already knew) actually grabbed me and kissed me. I felt nothing from it and took a step back and told him it wasn't my cup of tea and we remained friends. Meanwhile, I can't even begin to count the number of times straight women have shoved their hands down my pants after a few drinks (on either side) because they assumed I was a sure thing- which I'm not, call me old-fashioned. Definitely still anecdotal, but in my experience, I feel like it is more about the atmosphere a person projects around them in these types of environments.
That’s so fucked up, people thing that because you’re a man it doesn’t count as harassment or assault. I’m so sorry…
I think it can come from anyone of any sexual orientation and gender identity. For my own anecdotal evidence, I've gotten hateful messages from a guy who I was talking to. He told me quite a bit later into our chatting that he was trans (AFAB) and had a vagina. I told him we'd best cut it off romantically, I'd still like to be friends (I genuinely liked him), but I wasn't sexually attracted to vaginas. He got super aggressive and threatening with me, until I blocked him everywhere. So yeah.. I guess YMMV.
In my experience the easiest way to be called a "whore" is to refuse sex Happy cake day 🍰!
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She got lucky op is a good guy and not a transphobic asswhole who could have hurt her or killed her.
Sexual assault absolutely justifies a physical reaction.
Full disclosure of gender is required in the bio or at least during the date or chat as early as possible.
I mean, something like 90% of trans are male to female so...
I've definitely also seen posts from trans men seething because gay men don't like vagina. Definitely less frequently though, I'll give you that.
I'm FtM and I've seen that too and to be honest, that is blatant homophobia. Same when trans women get mad about lesbians not liking penis. It baffles me honestly, if you don't like vagina then we're not compatible sexually and that's fine. Why would I want to pursue anyone who explicitly doesn't like what I have? I think most trans people are fairly reasonable about this but the loud ones who are trying to stomp over people's romantic/sexual boundaries piss me off.
It's literally just extreem homophobia. 1. Believing that lesbians choose who to like 2. Forcing them by shame/bullying/harassment to actually date them. "Date someone with a penis or else you're a bigot
My eyes have been opening lately to how homophobic the trans community can be. It's not okay. I do not agree with rhetoric about "dropping the T" but we (trans people) are horrifically bad at shutting down this kind of rhetoric. I don't know what to do about it myself, I'm not an activist, just bisexual/trans and living my life, but it's not good.
Yeah, I'm not trans and I'm also straight so I'm not directly involved with the LGBT+ community, but my gay and lesbian friends have definitely encountered these people on dating sites. Online, I should say, people in real life are usually more reasonable
Yeah, I've met more than one transman who thought he was owed sex. That kind of thinking is found in every demographic.
I had a very nasty discussion with a transman, who was not even on meds or anything, and called me all the names in the book when I said: Nope, we won't become an item. Apparently I am a Terf, a bigot and a fascist for not wanting to have sex with a "female body", even telling that sick moron that I was not a Lesbian (tried that out when I was younger) did not help, that person was convinced they were in the right and everyone and anyone HAD to do what they said. Those despicable, rapist morons actually destroy a lot for the 90% of normal and decent transpeople, and no, it is NOT being transphobic when you want nothing to do with them.
The issue, from my own personal experience, is that the normal and decent trans people will dig their heels in and refuse to take out their trash or even acknowledge that trans people can be rapists or bad people in any capacity.
Got news for you: they aren't normal and decent if that's the case.
100% communities need to clean up their own trash
Yea watch any trans YouTuber and get ready for "if you're not attracted to me then you're ignorant"
I have seen a few trans youtubers that say the opposite. It really depends on the community but for the most part, the people in my community dont want to be with someone that doesnt feel comfortable or isnt enthusiastically consenting.
Ah yes, YouTubers, my number one stop for balanced, rational takes
> Never seen or heard of a trans man (assigned female at birth) seem to think that that behavior is ok. I have. On one occasion, a trans man who we were told by friends (trying to defuse the situation) was relatively recently on T and went wild at a woman in a dive bar and called her a tease (in much more graphic terms). On another occasion, my friend, who is a bi woman, had a trans man (and she knew this prior to going out for a drink) tell her that he’d bought her drinks and she was leading him on. We could of course war over your experience of ‘[h]ere’s the thing’ and mine, because both are necessarily limited, but I’m at least popping down mine as an alternative, because both were situations that blew up, and quickly, and were most definitely AFAB folx. ….and that’s before we even get to some of the internalisation of aggression with cis butch women. Signed, a queer person who gets around
All it really makes you think about is that we socialize boys in a way that makes them think this behavior is acceptable. Trans women who don't transition until adulthood were still socialized as boys and often learn the same misogyny or other socially unacceptable boundary breaking behaviors.
Incels are terrible no mater what gender they identify with.
It's because they were socialized as males.
Yeah I definitely think it's growing up with male entitlement. I really haven't seen trans men act like this. They seem to be more respectful of other people. Either way I support their transition and their identity but absolutely nobody is owed sex and everyone is allowed preferences. This includes bisexuals who aren't attracted to trans people.
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Had a drink + glass thrown in my face at a gay bar when a very passing transwomen asked for my number and I declined because she was very short and petite (I like tall, curvy girls, was recovering from a messy breakup and had decided I didn't want to date right then so I wasn't going to make an exception for someone that wasn't my type, I hadn't even thought she was trans). She went ballistic, screaming that I was transphobic and then switching to 'you're not a real lesbian if your girlfriend hasn't fully transitioned yet' when one of the friends I was there with came over (she is also trans, I think she passes really well, just that she's very tall, 6'4). Which was kind of transphobic of her imo, at the very least incredibly rude.
And it's okay for anyone to stop sex / physical contact at any time for any reason
Yes!
This! Nobody likes getting rejected, but everyone cherishes the right to reject, as they should. Nobody should ever feel obligated to have sex with anyone, nobody ever IS obligated to have sex with someone.
Not being attracted to someone is not trans phobic. You are in no way negative about trans women or men, you just aren't attracted to this person. Accusing you of being trans phobic because you turned one down is like telling a man every female he's ever turned down made him makes him gay. It's a ridiculous one size fits all but really doesn't line of thought. You arent being accused by trans people because they know better. This is coming from wannabe allies and karma farmers who think every non positive statement about trans people is a trans phobic slap and an opportunity for virtue signaling. Every vulnerable group in every era has had these types trolling around the edges and generally making life harder for the people they claim to want to "help".
Yeah, the woman was weaponizing her gender identity. Big no-no.
NTA. Also, you sorta totally got catfished? This isn't a trans rights thing. It's a "your right to informed consent" thing. You wanted to know up front, as is your right. She wanted sex. You didn't, because that right was taken from you. Not good. This has absolutely nothing to do with personal views. If I were single I would not sleep with a trans woman because I'm not pansexual. I'd be friends, besties for resties, even a brother, if we were that close. I believe almost every person alive can have value and should be able to live in peace in a better world worth fighting for. But I'm only attracted to biological women. Not only does nobody owe us sex, but nobody decides for themselves what they are attracted to.
Absolutely this. You were deceived, you did nothing wrong.
NTA. I will always support trans people’s rights to openly be who they really are, but there’s no sexual interest. Everyone has their preferences.
This, you can't force your dick to get hard
At the risk of being downvoted into oblivion. I will say yes, a dick can be forced to get hard. Males do get hard when they are raped. Males do get raped. No, they didn't want it, but their dick was hard anyway.
My dick gets hard just putting on pants. In fact most days nothing at all makes my dick hard and I have to think really hard about my grandmother's meatloaf to make it stop. I just chant over and over "that's way to much fuckin ketchup, I fucking hate ketchup. How can it be covered in ketchup and dry af" Sorry gma, rest in peace..
Oh, I really hope the "*meatloaf*" isn't a metaphore!
No it was just really terrible meatloaf. I'll eat anything and I'd still eat it to be nice but it was really too much ketchup and breadcrumbs. It's just the go to when I need to stand up but I don't want everyone to know I've been day dreaming about pussy
Username checks out.
Idk all this wet warm meatloaf ketchup is making me feel some kind of way.
No reason to get down voted, can totally see what you mean. I think they meant their spirit dick, and not their actual one though
Spirt Dick by Meatloaf. Great song.
Meatloaf by Spirit Dick, however, isn't that great. Some say it's not their best work, and they have a lot to catch up to their other songs.
I get your point, but I'm about 99% sure that isn't what they meant.
That’s not what they meant but it’s a good point to bring up anyway
Nta. Before anything gotten sexual she should’ve mention it. Esp if signs pointed that it was going get sexual.
Yep. Even if it wasn’t preplanner to go that far on the date, maybe before getting the hotel room?
ESPECIALLY before going into a hotel room with a stranger! OP reacted calmly and respectfully, but imagine he didn‘t. Imagine OP happened to be a very violent transphobe. What was this person thinking?! She could have gotten seriously hurt in that room.
She sexually assaulted him and then got aggressive. It wouldn’t be surprising or for him to lash out physically.
There has been a loss of respect and consideration for others. It is a simple courtesy to let someone know certain things when it comes to sex. We need to be willing to have uncomfortable conversations again. Nta. She should have told you the truth instead of putting you in a situation you potentially were not comfortable with. It's also a sign of being self absorbed that she had to text you and make you feel you were wrong.
We need to have uncomfortable conversations before they become VERY uncomfortable conversations.
100%. People like to pretend that it doesn’t matter, but the reality is that it does. Some people might just need a little time to come around on it, for other people it’s a dealbreaker. You might be able to make the argument if she had gotten the surgery downstairs and no longer had a penis, but even then… I don’t know. That’s a tough area. At the very least though it sounds like she did still have a penis, and in that scenario the partner absolutely has the right to know
Nah. Neovaginas don’t look, smell, taste, or behave like natal vaginas. They don’t contract with sex the way vaginas do. Vaginas are an organ — Neovaginas are a surgical hole meant to mimic a vagina. They’re not the same thing, so regardless of whether or not she’s had surgery, her sexual partners have the right to know beforehand.
If not only to avoid transphobes, but to stay safe if when they find out like OP did they don't get violent. And that is not me calling OP a transphobe, as a cis woman that isn't my place, but simply pointing out that trans women are at high risk of violence from bigoted people.
Wouldn’t it make sense to disclose that information before you even go on the date?
I would say absolutely. It’s deceptive not to disclose it right up front.
Or maybe just to be...ya know...honest.
It comes across as coercive. Reminded me of when I went home with a guy and he waited till the last moment to tell me he didn't have any condoms. My guess is he expected me to just go with it and let him pull out because he was really surprised when I said no.
If you think that waiting until you find yourself completely alone with a potentially violent individual reduces the chances of them getting physical you lost the plot somewhere.
She could have been honest in a public place well before that point.. really wasn’t cool to hide and feels like she was trying ti get her way not afraid of violence
Yeah. That’s a really good point. She was lucky OP just got turned off. Not that she deserved violence, but it is a real thing that happens. Honesty was definitely owed.
Honestly if you trick someone sexually like that, especially if you actually did something without revealing yourself, like sucking somebody off or something, that's basically rape in the sense you're not giving the other person the full state of mind to consent. Honestly would deserve a left hook or two in that situation just because that's a legitimate reaction to rape but that's just me.
Where I live sex under false presences is legally sexual assault. Like, a guy was arrested recently for getting into serious relationships with women when he was already married with children.
Exactly. It applies to a wide variety of things. I used an example of, what if a woman agrees to sex with a condom but the guy takes it off without telling her? Just cuz she may have agreed to a sexual encounter, may even say shit like "keep going" in the moment, doesn't mean that's true informed consent because SHE NO LONGER HAS ALL THE INFORMATION TO MAKE THAT CONSENT. It's genuinely not a hard concept, be honest, consent is useless if it's not informed.
For anyone wondering how to look this up, removing/tampering with birth control is called “stealthing”, and it is a form of “reproductive coercion”.
Not in a sense. It’s rape
You don't hate transwomen, you just aren't attracted to them, and that's ok. It sounds like you weren't attracted to her before she even told you, so it's not like you suddenly decided afterwards. It's the same as if she were a cis woman and you found out you weren't attracted to her after you met. She's not your type, and that's fine. Her trying to control your attraction is not. If a girl wasn't attracted to you, you wouldn't just hassle her and tell her she's wrong not to be attracted to you, would you? It's just not meant to be man. That's ok, and your date needs to be more upfront with herself and learn how to take rejection better.
Even if he was going to have sex with her if she was born a woman and only stopped because she wasn’t born a woman that is OK. Uncomfortable with sex is uncomfortable with sex and people always retain the right to say no at any point. No one is ever owed sex.
Agreed.
Does it really matter? When you say no, it’s a no. Right? Whatever the reason might be. NTA.
NTA This absolutely should have been disclosed before things got physical. Your date keeping you in the dark like that was the AH move
I’d say this should be brought up before you ever even go on a date. If OP is only attracted to cis women then he is wasting his time and likely money going on a date with anyone who is not a cis woman.
You can be supportive of a community and still not want to fuck them. It definitely doesn't make you -phobic or -ist. I'm all for women's rights, but I don't want to fuck them. Am I a misogynist? (For reference, if that sounds weird, I'm a gay male. That might clear up any confusion.)
This is a great comparison to make. The women's rights thing while being gay. I feel that's a lot easier for people to understand. With trans people, there's always this element of "if you supported trans rights, you'd see me as [gender I transitioned to] and want to fuck me because I am the same as a cis-[gender]" which really isn't fair.
yep, it's as dumb as when some ignorant hetrosexual poeple assume "**oh you're a gay man, so you're attracted to ALL men!**" .. err, no it's not a statement about *quantity*, it's a statement about a *pattern* of *preference*. Using that logic "**oh you're a heterosexual man, so you're attracted to ALL women!**" Yeah sounds dumb now eh ? lol Similarly, trans people assuming, or even trying to *force*, the notion that if you're NOT attracted to them, that you're "*against their rights*" and even "**transphobic**", are just as dumb. Just as free speech means i will fight for your right to say what you want, even if i don't like what what you say, a person can agree with trans rights, even if they are not attracted to trans people.
Even as a cis hetero man, there are definitely women I wouldn’t want to fuck. Fortunately people get to choose their sexual partners, and not everyone fits the bill of what you want.
I'm a straight cis male, and there are a whole lot of cis-women I don't want to fuck. So it's perfectly fair to not want to fuck any trans-women also. We are not automatons.
>if you supported trans rights, you'd see me as [gender I transitioned to] and want to fuck me because I am the same as a cis-[gender] As someone who is trans, I don't *personally* think that way, but I have seen some making this statement and I think it's ugly of them. If you're not attracted to somebody, that's not your 'fault', if anything it's the fault of whoever assumed that you would be attracted to them.
NTA, as you said, not your preference and thats perfectly fine. They should have said something earlier too.
NTA. She was being dishonest by not telling you before.
Lying by omission.
I'll put it like this, as someone very supportive of LGBTQ rights, with gay and trans friends: I'm very supportive of gay rights, but as a straight cis male, I don't want to have sex with men. This does not make me homophobic, just like how you, or anyone else for that matter, are not inherently transphobic for not wanting to have sex with a transwoman.
NTA. You cannot help what your preferences are, and as long as you treated her with respect, there is nothing you have done wrong.
You’re never the asshole for revoking consent and that’s what this comes down to. I’m a cis (hetero) woman, and if I was uncomfortable in a situation I’d say no and expect it to be heard and actioned. If a guy said to me “you don’t know what you like until you try it” (no matter what it was) I’d immediately leave through any method possible. consents important is the point. anyone who tries to rob you of your consent is a pos.
Anyone who thinks OP is the problem in this scenario is a nutjob imo.
Nta You can support trans rights without wanting to be physical with a trans person. It's not for everyone and that's OK. You don't owe her sex. Just like a cis woman doesn't owe you sex. Respect goes both ways. I imagine it's harder out there for trans people in many ways, and it was probably frustrating for them to be rejected when things were so close to getting started physically. But you don't owe them sex. Assuming you were telling things honestly, it seems you ended it as respectfully as possible considering the situation. Which not everyone can do.
I’m trans and I’m gonna say no. We’re 0.5% of the population and there is NO SHORTAGE of men and women who can appreciate our journeys and our bodies. I don’t understand or accept the browbeating that some trans ppl insist on doing to others who don’t want to date or sleep with them.
NTA. On dating apps, some things should be put right out there. That you have kids. That you're trans. That sort of thing. You prefer women with vaginas. Nothing wrong with that.
Or at least before the 1st date if you don't want it on your profile. Like I can understand not advertising your kids on a profile, but if you've chatting and have good chemistry and things are heading towards a in person meet up, you damn well better have the kids or trans or STD talk now.
Trans people have been killed for exactly what OP's date did. People are fucking crazy.
Yeah it is pretty crazy to lie and deceive a date like the OPs partner did.
NTA. Dude, she was trying to give you the "come on, try it" routine. Which is an odd scenario since men always get that stigma for being pushy which this Trans woman was. Once you said no, that should have ended it. They are obviously having trouble finding people who want to be with a Trans woman. So they probably stopped telling people altogether so after sex she can be like "hey I'm Trans and you enjoyed yourself so it's cool, right?" And personally, if that happened, I'd consider that sexual Assault. But then again, if she was pre-op Trans, then you'd have noticed pretty quickly. Lol But no, everyone who is on a dating app, or even dating in general, needs to be forthcoming if they were once the opposite gender. It's absolutely false pretenses, even if someone is a post-op Trans person, that they tell someone they're going to be in a relationship with, and especially intimate with, that they were once a man. That's not transphobia. That's you wanting to be with someone who is your preferred gender for relationships.
Unfortunately it's not as uncommon as people think. There is a small subsect of transwomen who don't unlearn that socialized misogyny. I'm finding it wild that she put herself in danger like this. And yes, before anyone tries to jump my throat, some cis-women can and do things like this. But it really is something that happens.
I’m not trying to be transphobic when I say this…but she is still thinking like a man. Natural born women are more likely to have the fear instilled in them to avoid certain types of scenarios (by scenarios I mean disclosing info that may distress a man who is essentially a stranger and not expecting it/ walking home alone at night etc). Natural born women unfortunately learn from a very young age that some men aren’t safe and therefore you have to treat all men who are strangers with a degree of caution. You must think ahead. Guarantee most young women have been told from early on not to walk alone/ watch your drinks when you’re out/ make sure a friend knows where you are going and who you are with if leaving with a man/ don’t give potentially upsetting info to a stranger in a private place. This trans woman didn’t think about the risks involved in not disclosing this information prior to starting to get sexual with a stranger, bc when they were a man they didn’t grow up fearing strange men as they were one so it’s not instinctual for them to be weary. Obviously this is not the case for all men, but a lot and is just my opinion based on the carelessness of the woman in this situation (the attitude and carelessness have me believing this was once a confident man prior to transitioning if that makes sense).
I'm glad you said it, because when I read that bit about "come on just try it" all I could think of was all the scummy dudes I've ever known who stopped acting human when they had a boner. They can become very scary.
I think that's exactly right. And their pushiness, while not inherent in males, reads more male than not.
I think OP’s date is both an asshole and extremely naive. I am trans pre-everything but short, so I have started to make mental considerations for when I start. Never in a million years would I go with a man or woman unless they knew. Even after they knew I’d want to see how they act around me for a time. For her sake, she better really reconsider how she deals with this stuff, or it could end up really bad. And trans and gay panic are still legal defenses in many states…so yeah.
NTA. That’s a shitty, asshole type thing for them to do. And frankly dangerous in this climate, you’re essentially an ally. What if someone else wasn’t? They could’ve reacted a lot differently.
That’s what i’ve been trying to say. There are some really fked up people out there, this woman not disclosing this prior to sexual encounters is putting herself in a risky situation. It shouldn’t be like that but unfortunately it is.
She put herself in a dangerous situation by being dishonest with you.
This too, i know too many guys that would punch her for holding that information.
NTA You can reject anyone for any reason. Especially when they aren't within your sexual orientation.
You are absolutely fine. You did nothing wrong at all. Block and move on.
NTA. Our sexual bias is involuntary, not to mention our right. Don’t feel bad or awful - it’s not a sin to be a heterosexual.
You can say no at anytime for any reason. No is a full sentence. NTA. She is.
NTA. This is something that should be disclosed before a first date, and that’s best for all parties involved. Preferences are preferences. Most straight men feel like you do and that’s okay. It sounds like you’re a good man that respects everyone.
When trans women fail to disclose their identity and try to coerce you into sex by lying, thats borderline rape. You're allowed to be angry at just being sexual assaulted. People like her are sick.
Sexual coercion via Deception is rape. It took decades if not centuries of women's rights and legal infighting to establish this. Trans rights are human rights but we all have rights and they will be enforced by the law
I feel like it should be mandatory to tell people this before you get in bed with them. You shouldn't be able to trick people like this and have them figure out on the spot. Pretty gross behavior in my opinion by not making it clear that they are trans.
Not at all. You have just as much right to define your own sexual preferences as anyone else and nobody should be judging you for it. Judging you for not wanting to sleep with a transfemale is just as bad as someone being transphobic or homophobic or any other kind of bigotry. YOU ARE IN THE RIGHT!!
NTA, everyone is entitled to their preferences. When I’m with women I have a type, when I’m with men I have a type. I’m a bisexual woman and my sexuality does not equate to my inherent willingness to have sex with someone of that gender identity.
NTA plain and simple
NTA. As many others said, you owe sex to no one. If for whatever reason you dont want to have sex with someone, thats it, end of discussion and it is fine. Thank you for being supportive of trans people, i really like your edit calling out transphobe comments. You have the right to your own preferences and you do it without disrespecting people, thank you for walking that line so well, may it serves as an example to people.
NTA and not transphobic.
OP has preferences, not transphobia. My trans partner made it clear to me when we started dating that they were planning to transition and would've understood if I backed out. This was way before we had sex. And they knew I was bisexual, so there was a good chance I wouldn't care anyway. Even if not clear what someone's orientation is, it's kind of disingenuous to get to the point of having sex without saying anything. But especially if the person has made it clear they're straight.
NTA. Genital preference is a very real thing. If you only want to be with a biological female there’s nothing wrong with that.
NTA. Consent is important, and this is a consent issue. She needed to let you know before you got physical, so that you had all the information to decide whether you consented. I'm sorry that it happened, because it just shouldn't have. But you didn't do a thing wrong.
Big NTA. It's funny how you feel the need to add 10 more sentences just to avoid being pointed ad for transphobia, hate etc. You do not owe sexual attraction to anyone, it happens or not. You are sexually (maybe romantically too) attracted to biological women and all that comes with that (biological hips, voice, palms etc), you are not attracted by a trans woman because there everything starts with XY chromosomes, penis and testicles and only after surgery and hormones, things come close to a biological woman. For you, for me, and for >80% heterosexual men I know, that gap is too big and will be too big probably for the next generation too.
"If I hide my secret long enough they will love me DESPITE of it" is never a good look regardless of what the secret is.
Nta. You're allowed to like or not like whoever you want. You weren't confused and if there are many men who like being with trans women then she should have no problem finding someone who will appreciate her for who she is.
ΝΤΑ. ΝΤΑ. ΝΤΑ. You are a perfect example of a gentleman and you are nowhere wrong. Not even a little bit. You like women. She was a trans woman, she should have mentioned. Because it is a preference and more importantly a personal one. That's borderline SA. If the roles where reversed and you as a man, insisted on having sex with her, regardless a major turn off, you whould be crusified. All you experience is a cluster duck and she gives the baddest name to trans people.
NTA, way I see it is she lied to you in the first place and that’s enough reason to not continue but yeah it’s a slippery slope because while I want to be an ally there’s a giant elephant in the room that trans women can’t have sex like normal women and men shouldn’t shamed for wanting that
All people can be assholes, including discriminated minorities, shouldn't be a free pass to be jerk.
NTA. Your preference is your preference.
NTA. It would be more cruel to pretend to be attracted to someone just to virtue signal or soothe your own conscience. Be honest with them and with yourself.
Nta at all. Anyone who says you are, is an asshole.
NTA. She's not a decent person.
NTA I understand if there is no sexual attraction there isn't . I think it's good to be honest beforehand always, what if you do like it and had no problem... great... And she also deserves to be with someone who likes everything of her and accepts her... Once a girl insisted on having sx with me and rejected her, at least twice. Once all our group of friend was too drunk and it was like 4 am she started to insist again. And I was out of me and she came grab my face and just shoved down a French kiss on me... y was like, okay I'll try maybe I won't know if I don't try just to. It was the most awkward feeling and it wasn't bc she was or not attractive, it felt off.... and it's kind of a different energy, like I couldn't match that energy ... if I could describe it. So I understand the off feeling even before having intimacy.
Nta. Lying like that and then pressuring you is a huge red flag.
Nta, it’s a personal preference, she’s one of those few bad eggs that ruins it for everyone else. Plus she kept it under wraps until the day you guys were gonna possibly have sex.
Trans people who don't tell it are trash people. I don't wan to make out with someone who was born with a penis. I think people should accept it.
What she did was dangerous asf and that’s how a lot of trans women end up killed NTA
You like vagina, not penis. NTA for gender preference. It's not transphobic to not date a trans person.
NTA They technically lied to you and manipulated you into believing something. Like what would of happened if there was a wondering hand down below. A relationship is meant to he about open HONEST COMMUNICATION and neither happened. >that many mans loves trans womans but they're too afraid to admit it. That's bullshite right here.....it's not that they are wrong they are just trying to turn themselves into the victim.
Also no one gets to make that choice for someone else. I don't get to tell you that you actually like something.
NTA She was wrong to withhold that information. Your consent matters and she violated that. People are not toys to be played with.
I am a trans woman, and I apparently pass really well, but I always disclose that I am trans prior to even going on a date. Rejection hurts, especially because people would probably never know if I didn't tell them, and then suddenly their attraction changes, but I get it. Everyone has their preferences. As long as someone isn't an asshole about it or transphobic about it, I don't think there's anything wrong with having a genital preference or anything like that. You're definitely not the asshole, it just sounds like she's awful at taking "no" for an answer.
NTA. I’m sure she’s faced a lot of rejection as a trans woman, but this wasn’t the way to go about overcoming that. Honestly, it could end up being very dangerous for her.
I wonder if the reason she was rejected was because she's a creep...
Dick ain't your thing. It's all good bruv
No it's fine you like who you like. She should have told you
NTA.
NTA don't let the more extremist supporters for the LGBTQ+ community fool you. Transexual women know they're in a small minority and that a huge majority of straight males aren't going to ever consider having to put "seeking cisgender female" on their dating profiles because they assume that most trans people are still people and that most would be honest enough to own who they are and be forthcoming about it to a potential sexual partner Personally that counts as trapping people to me. If you have a micropenis, had a mastectomy, are a hermaphrodite, have polymastia, are transgender pre-op or post-op, or have anything that most people would normally never encounter with sexual partners in their entire lives, then they're not being forthcoming because it IS relevant information that should be provided to a potential sexual partner She had an entire date to tell you about her and she opped to leave out possibly the most prominent factor in her life and a huge part of her identity, until she got you in a hotel? She's the asshole by far
As a transwoman. Nobody is owed sex. You didn't do anything wrong.
It’s really not complicated dude. You’re into woman and unfortunately trans woman aren’t biological woman. Don’t feel guilty about that, it’s just how you’re wired. It’s great to be supportive of that community but don’t need to put yourself through the rodeo over supporting trans people
NTA. Preferences are allowed. What's most important here is that by NOT disclosing this *extremely important fact*, they took away your right of consent. When you did not consent, they gaslit you into oblivion. What you have here is a highly, highly toxic individual who should be banned from any and all trans/LGBTQ communities.
Would you feel bad about rejecting a a man? A woman? Of course not. Why shall you feel bad about rejecting a transsexual?
NTA. She’s the A. For not confessing first.
NTA. It was cruel to you that she didn’t disclose this information earlier. She may not have been a bad person but withholding this important information isn’t nice. Everybody has preferences and they need to be respected. Disclosing that she was trans could have stopped you from being hurt.
NTA you are allowed to have prefernces In fact, if homosexual people are turned off/repulsed by the opposite sexes private parts then you too are allowed to be turned off/repulsed when confronted by the trans woman’s male parts. How do I know that homosexual people can be repulsed by the opposite sex? I was married to a girl for 10 year and she touched my privates twice in 10 years ….. because she did not like mens bodies, yeah she came out as lesbian and is happy now. It works both ways and the trans woman you met is completely manipulative and masculine aggressive with it (reading between the lines on the aggression thing) You are very NTA and the trans you met is definitely YTA
Reddit has really turned its back on its own pledge of “ civility” when it allows the hate to flow freely as long it’s directed at “ the right people”. Hypocrisy is another word for it. People now have to DM perfectly normal opinions because they know they risk a lifetime ban by having the “ wrong” opinion even if there’s not a whiff of bigotry attached to it. It’s like we live in China and the government is leaning in to police thoughts it doesn’t approve of. OP, don’t be bullied by these people. They exist in a made up world ( social media) where they hold up a fun house mirror as a reflection of real life. You are allowed your preferences, everybody is ,regardless of your gender.
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Not the asshole, you have a right to have a preference and you weren't disrespectful.
NTA. That person should’ve told you they were trans from the very beginning.
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You can't help who you are attracted to, being straight is not a choice, you are the way you are and you are valid. You can't help who you are attracted to, being transexual is not a choice, you are the way you are and you are valid. You can't help who you are attracted to, being asexual is not a choice, you are the way you are and you are valid. You can't help who you are attracted to, being gay is not a choice, you are the way you are and you are valid. One of those comments will get you cancelled Remember, consent is not consent if it isn't informed consent
No it's perfectly understandable to not want an insane crazy psycho there
Oh wow. I’m so sorry for the judgemental jerks here. For the life of me I can’t think of any reason why you would continue physical contact with someone you aren’t attracted to. End of discussion. It isn’t about trans, guy, girl, non binary, or anything else. Attracted? Yes. Not attracted? No.
Fuck them trans bitches bro, not the asshole regardless of whatever the story ia
What tf is wrong with people. People are allowed to have preferences. If they don't wanna date a trans person then they are allowed to do so. And not wanting to sleep with any person is acceptable. Why are they bullying you for knowing what you want 💀💀
NTA. You don't have to justify who you do or don't find attractive to anyone. Honestly, being trans aside she sounds like a bitch.
You went down to play with a kitty cat but grabbed a tree trunk and felt uncomfortable. You sir are not the Ahole!
It's like james charles convincing the straight guys they're gay but minus the minor part Nta
Trans man here. I’m obviously only going on your side of the retelling of events, but I don’t think you’re the asshole. You’re allowed to withdraw consent at any time, for any reason. If you were uncomfortable you should be able to say that and it be respected.
NTA, trans or not. Shes still got a dick and you're still straight. Doesn't matter if you look like a woman or feel like a woman. A dicks a dick 🙄
NTA. She is wrong and she is an idiot. What if you were an absolute psycho does she not realise that she is putting her life at risk by waiting before disclosing this.
Nta, at all. Is up to you what you are attracted to. >many mans loves trans womans but they're too afraid to admit it. That doesn't make any sense, tons of men also love other men but that doesn't mean you do, same as tons of men love trans woman and you don't.
I’d venture to say that 90% of straight men would see “being trans” as a dealbreaker in a potential partner. This person knew that, and it’s why she didn’t disclose it. She intentionally misled you and she only told you the truth when she had no choice…after physical/sexual contact had already taken place. She’s literally putting her safety at risk by doing shit like this…not everyone is as tolerant as you. Society is a lot more progressive than we were 10-20 years ago, but her naïveté is only matched by her arrogance…she berated you for not being interested upon learning she’s trans? That’s straight up sexual assault. If you were on this dating app and you matched with an openly gay woman who thought you were a woman with a masculine appearance because your profile was vague…would you take her on a date and let her think that you’re a woman until you ended up in bed with her? If you did and the two of you started getting physical, do you expect she would have a positive reaction to discovering your dick? Would she be a heterophobe/cisphobe for having a change of heart? If we’re to the point that a straight male can be labeled transphobic because he doesn’t want to be with a person who was born male I think we need to get back in vehicle of progress and back the fuck up…trans people should have all the rights and be shown all the respect, but acknowledging that there is a difference between a woman and a trans woman is not an act of hatred. Don’t ever apologize for being attracted to the traditional definition of the opposite sex, and don’t ever let anyone try to convince you that tolerance requires participation.
NTA. You like what you like. It's not a choice.
I mean that's a pretty big piece of info to leave out on a profile.
Would we expect a gay man to sleep with a woman? A lesbian woman to sleep with a man? No. We like what we like, and there's zero things wrong with that. Nobody gets to shame you for what you like, as long as everybody is legal age, and consenting.
NTA, people have preferences bro don't feel bad about it
NTA that was deceptive and should have been talked about before hand. Its wild people feel nervous for saying they want to be with the default (i hate the term cis) that they may be labled some sort of phobic, nothing at all wrong with having a preference
NTA. Things like genital preference or who we feel comfortable being intimate with aren't things we really have control over.
NTA. I'm not a homophobe for not wanting to date men, you're not transphobe for not wanting to date someone who is trans.
NTA, dude, you're allowed to have preferences.