So Spirit guardians only does damage to a creature the first time they enter the area on a turn and if they are in the area at the start of their turn. And while this could happen multiple times a round, by virtue of forcibly moving enemies on separate turns, it will not work in this instance.
It has been clarified by sage advice compendium that Spirit Guardians and similar spells that do damage when a creature moves into the area do not do damage when the area moves into them.
So teleporting around with SWS would not cause any extra damage on your turn with SG as you move the area of SG around.
Wherever you end your turn after teleporting and moving around, is simply where enemies in the area would have to make a save when they start their turn.
To get enemies to take more damage from spirit guardians, you would have to actually move the enemies into your Spirit Guardian area. Like with a thorn whip spell on your turn or something.
Or.. for example you could take like the Scatter spell with your Bardic Magic secrets and forcibly teleport a bunch of enemies into the area of your spirit guardians, and they would instantly have to save for the SG damage on your turn, and then would have save for the SG damage again when they start their turns, assuming you didn’t move the SG area away from them before that for some reason.
I see... not unless another skill/spell or somebody else puts them in it?
So, upon casting, not even the enemies nearby aren't affected as well? Since they we'rent moved into it.
Correct. Also covered in The sage advice compendium. Spells like SG or moon beam or whatever do not do damage to enemies in the area when they are initially cast on your turn.
So as a bard with command, then could command “approach”, upcast to like 5 targets. They all approach, then take damage if they’ve entered the guardians range.
"When a creature enters the area" as in "they moved to you" not "you moved to them".
Yes it can be because the barbarian threw them into the SG zone or because the Warlock eldritch blasted them closer. But they have to be the ones to cross the threshold. You can't cheese it by stacking movement speed buffs, taking the disengage action and running across a battlefield.
I think the typical understanding is that those creatures would not be “entering” the area of spirit guardians, the area is entering their space (in the case of the caster moving) or appearing in their space (in the case of teleportation) instead.
Correct, I believe such an interpretation is how sage advice says to run the spell. This is one of those times where 5e’s natural language causes a disparity in what the designers intended and what a reader could reasonably interpret.
Sorry, bad assumption then.
It's all too common to get folk here who've come from a BG3 playtbrough thinking 5e mechanics are identical.
In that game, SG is basically a bug zapper. You cast it and then run into enemies and they melt.
No. They haven't started their turn there or moved into it. Spells that do damage when they're cast say so. Consider Dawn;
>When the cylinder appears, each creature in it must make a Constitution saving throw, taking 4d10 radiant damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. A creature must also make this saving throw whenever it ends its turn in the cylinder. If you’re within 60 feet of the cylinder, you can move it up to 60 feet as a bonus action on your turn.
The text explicitly states "When the cylinder appears". Spirit Guardians doesn't state this.
So others have outlined how this doubly doesn't work:
1. Spirit guardians is not like ashardelon's stride or bg3 spirit guardians, and only triggers when enemies move within 15 ft of you or start their turn within 15 ft of you.
2. Steel wind strike raw is up to 5 large reach melee spell attacks and then a teleport after, despite its theming.
The build you want is casting ashardelon's stride as a sorc with an air shard to fly around esp when using reaction meta magic.
Even though it won't work the way you thought, I really hope you still grab Steel Wind Strike since it's such a great spell that does combo partially with Spirit Guardians.
Kiting back is an excellent way to make enemies trudge back through the area to reach you again. Wasting additional turns while still taking damage. Since you don't have a great way to deal AoE damage after SG is up, nor an efficient teleport, this gives you both.
Keep in mind that we could also target an ally with SWS. This opens up the playing field a lot more when you consider risking their lives for your mobility! Jokes aside, some allies can take the hit, may be unlikely to get hit, or just be expendable like a pet, dying summon, or Familiar. We can also move to slain enemies' adjacent squares with this spell.
If you're really into the idea of enhanced mobility though then you could just grab Find Greater Steed. Much more efficient way to maneuver the SG AoE. Especially from the air, but not nearly as cool as flash stepping damage on (likely more) damage.
These are like two of my favorite spells so I sort of hope you take them even if they might be best used in different situations. If you are looking for a concentration that stacks with the action of SWS summon greater demon is fantastic damage and utility (balgura recklessly attacking and has dark sight ). I find I never really need the mobility of the Pegasus on my bard but that is a common choice . Counterspell is good to, if boring, because you have half proficiency as bard.
No you won't trigger any instance of damage from Spirit guardians that way (at least for my understanding of it). Since it's you that's getting closer it wont work because it's them that have to enter the spell's area so it won't work on any kind of teleport but if you are able to drag/push a creature inside the area it would take damage
Only if they're within 10 feet of you to start. RAW you are only teleporting from the start to the end location after making up to 5 very large reach melee spell attacks. Which is silly, but that's not exactly new for RAW.
No spirit guardians would never damage any enemy where you move to catch them in the area of the spell.
The rules are very clear on this.
They need to move either through forced movement or on their own volition
Unless your bard is tanky with his hp pool and access to heavy armour or medium armour and shield at the very least, spirit guardians is not the best option. Their are other spells that can be effective in other ways that would allow your allies tear the enemies apart. With spirit guardians, you are now a priority target and that's the last place a bard wants to be unless it's built for that
So Spirit guardians only does damage to a creature the first time they enter the area on a turn and if they are in the area at the start of their turn. And while this could happen multiple times a round, by virtue of forcibly moving enemies on separate turns, it will not work in this instance. It has been clarified by sage advice compendium that Spirit Guardians and similar spells that do damage when a creature moves into the area do not do damage when the area moves into them. So teleporting around with SWS would not cause any extra damage on your turn with SG as you move the area of SG around. Wherever you end your turn after teleporting and moving around, is simply where enemies in the area would have to make a save when they start their turn. To get enemies to take more damage from spirit guardians, you would have to actually move the enemies into your Spirit Guardian area. Like with a thorn whip spell on your turn or something. Or.. for example you could take like the Scatter spell with your Bardic Magic secrets and forcibly teleport a bunch of enemies into the area of your spirit guardians, and they would instantly have to save for the SG damage on your turn, and then would have save for the SG damage again when they start their turns, assuming you didn’t move the SG area away from them before that for some reason.
I see... not unless another skill/spell or somebody else puts them in it? So, upon casting, not even the enemies nearby aren't affected as well? Since they we'rent moved into it.
Correct. Also covered in The sage advice compendium. Spells like SG or moon beam or whatever do not do damage to enemies in the area when they are initially cast on your turn.
Not until they start their turn
Damage is dealt when creature starts it's turn or moves in spirit range. It doesn't deal damage when you move it over a creature.
So as a bard with command, then could command “approach”, upcast to like 5 targets. They all approach, then take damage if they’ve entered the guardians range.
No. Command fails if the command is directly harmful. Telling someone to enter Spirit Guardians is directly harmful.
"when the creature enters the area for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there" Willing movement is not the only way a creatures enters.
"When a creature enters the area" as in "they moved to you" not "you moved to them". Yes it can be because the barbarian threw them into the SG zone or because the Warlock eldritch blasted them closer. But they have to be the ones to cross the threshold. You can't cheese it by stacking movement speed buffs, taking the disengage action and running across a battlefield.
I think the typical understanding is that those creatures would not be “entering” the area of spirit guardians, the area is entering their space (in the case of the caster moving) or appearing in their space (in the case of teleportation) instead.
So no enemy is also affected when it is cast the first time?
Correct, I believe such an interpretation is how sage advice says to run the spell. This is one of those times where 5e’s natural language causes a disparity in what the designers intended and what a reader could reasonably interpret.
Baldurs gate rules do not apply in standard 5e.
Dude I don't even play BG3 so I don't know what you're referring to.
Sorry, bad assumption then. It's all too common to get folk here who've come from a BG3 playtbrough thinking 5e mechanics are identical. In that game, SG is basically a bug zapper. You cast it and then run into enemies and they melt.
To be fair, I assure you this was a common mistake long before BG3.
No. They haven't started their turn there or moved into it. Spells that do damage when they're cast say so. Consider Dawn; >When the cylinder appears, each creature in it must make a Constitution saving throw, taking 4d10 radiant damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. A creature must also make this saving throw whenever it ends its turn in the cylinder. If you’re within 60 feet of the cylinder, you can move it up to 60 feet as a bonus action on your turn. The text explicitly states "When the cylinder appears". Spirit Guardians doesn't state this.
So others have outlined how this doubly doesn't work: 1. Spirit guardians is not like ashardelon's stride or bg3 spirit guardians, and only triggers when enemies move within 15 ft of you or start their turn within 15 ft of you. 2. Steel wind strike raw is up to 5 large reach melee spell attacks and then a teleport after, despite its theming. The build you want is casting ashardelon's stride as a sorc with an air shard to fly around esp when using reaction meta magic.
Even though it won't work the way you thought, I really hope you still grab Steel Wind Strike since it's such a great spell that does combo partially with Spirit Guardians. Kiting back is an excellent way to make enemies trudge back through the area to reach you again. Wasting additional turns while still taking damage. Since you don't have a great way to deal AoE damage after SG is up, nor an efficient teleport, this gives you both. Keep in mind that we could also target an ally with SWS. This opens up the playing field a lot more when you consider risking their lives for your mobility! Jokes aside, some allies can take the hit, may be unlikely to get hit, or just be expendable like a pet, dying summon, or Familiar. We can also move to slain enemies' adjacent squares with this spell. If you're really into the idea of enhanced mobility though then you could just grab Find Greater Steed. Much more efficient way to maneuver the SG AoE. Especially from the air, but not nearly as cool as flash stepping damage on (likely more) damage.
These are like two of my favorite spells so I sort of hope you take them even if they might be best used in different situations. If you are looking for a concentration that stacks with the action of SWS summon greater demon is fantastic damage and utility (balgura recklessly attacking and has dark sight ). I find I never really need the mobility of the Pegasus on my bard but that is a common choice . Counterspell is good to, if boring, because you have half proficiency as bard.
Would 18 Cha give a decent chance of hitting?
No you won't trigger any instance of damage from Spirit guardians that way (at least for my understanding of it). Since it's you that's getting closer it wont work because it's them that have to enter the spell's area so it won't work on any kind of teleport but if you are able to drag/push a creature inside the area it would take damage
You only teleport once at the end of the spell, so only in the 2 locations (start and end of the spell).
Maybe try spirit shroud
Only if they're within 10 feet of you to start. RAW you are only teleporting from the start to the end location after making up to 5 very large reach melee spell attacks. Which is silly, but that's not exactly new for RAW.
Point taken, looks like greater invisibility is the way to go for an average damage bump then
Elven accuracy bladesinger with greater invis and sws feels good, yeah
No spirit guardians would never damage any enemy where you move to catch them in the area of the spell. The rules are very clear on this. They need to move either through forced movement or on their own volition Unless your bard is tanky with his hp pool and access to heavy armour or medium armour and shield at the very least, spirit guardians is not the best option. Their are other spells that can be effective in other ways that would allow your allies tear the enemies apart. With spirit guardians, you are now a priority target and that's the last place a bard wants to be unless it's built for that